The secret to beating Magneto

[DannyLilithborn]

Hit him.

No, seriously, hit him. With anything. Jump roundhouse, low jab, low roundhouse, stand fierce. Mags players think that fight is free. When they get hit, all of a sudden they have to think. And people don't choose Magneto because they like to think.

Seriously, try it. Hit Magneto.

[ParryPerson.]

I laugh at your lame ass strat.


Everyone knows to beat Mags with Doom you only need one tool.





RANDOM PINK SHIT.

[DannyLilithborn]

Okay, have fun getting kicked in the forehead. :)

[Augmint]

Hit magneto - Awesome strat
You realise magnetos Lk is 2 frames?

[Green]

Magneto's c.lk is 1 frame.

[DannyLilithborn]

Of course. You gotta be brave.

[Augmint]

Magneto's c.lk is 1 frame.

I'm going by the original frame data table - even though I know people later said mags c.Lk is one frame.
Shouldn't have fed the troll.

[DannyLilithborn]

I know this is pointless to say, but I'm not a troll. I'm trying to get people to think that Doom vs. Magneto is not an automatic loss, and that if you can establish that you have more confidence than your opponent, you can win.

BELIEVE IT! ;)

[Dasrik]

I stand by what I said here.

Doom vs. Magneto is only unwinnable because players are scared of Magneto. Lose the fear. Stop being afraid to lose and you'll find yourself winning more.

[Jion_Wansu]

pick Icebeam assist LOL

[CoosCoos]

I stand by what I said here.

Doom vs. Magneto is only unwinnable because players are scared of Magneto. Lose the fear. Stop being afraid to lose and you'll find yourself winning more.

He is right actually. Most people I know play Doom v. Magneto by running away from him. You really don't have to however. Doom can control this fight as much as Magneto can. So I'll agree with Dasrik on this one. Hit the fool.

[Malachi]

Agree with Dasrik also.

Magneto is fast, true, but I'd argue Doom can control space faster than Magneto can get to it.

And all this talk of framerates seems to be off-the-mark a little. Fighting games, fortunately, cannot be reduced to a numbers game.

[t00dumb]

i personally never had a problem playing against magneto as long my tron bonne is right by my side. magneto can rush me down all he like but i'll be the one that's up in the air throwing air photons at him and if he's up there i'll do it from the ground! and if he starts to tri jump on me i'll needle spike him and send my tron assist. it's funny cuz some of my friends says i'm more aggressive taking on magneto than him taking on me as doom lol. the only person i get jibbers is probably cable and maybe storm. other than that i'm good against magneto with doom.

[Augmint]

yeah whatever.

Magneto and Sentinel steamroll Doom, its *less* of a nightmare if you have assists specifically for Doom (eg Drones, cyke assist) but not many people play a Doom centred team. Its also easier if magneto isn't paired with psylocke.

Landing anything other than a random APA on Magneto, or having an assist hit him is rare. Dooms normals aren't gonna hit magneto (wether it be a launcher, or needle kicks), unless you're playing crummy magnetos.

The reason why I mentioned frames is that Doom can't stop magnetos Lk tri jumps unless he has a good assist . Magneto can really get in Dooms face.
You need to play against some better magneto players and not take Dasriks word as gospel.

[MagnetoManiac]

wow im amazed on how many people actually think doom can win.

ok, yes, the player SHOULD be afraid of magneto. why? 1 hit kills. light speed rushdown.

how will doom hit you? at all? what scrub will fall for a launch while rushing? mag only has to dash once when doom sj's, so forget pink shit.

[CoosCoos]

As always, you two are entitled to your opinion.

The thing is though, I play very good Magnetos on a very constant basis, and the fact of the matter is, maybe you guys should try facing good Dooms.

A good Doom will take into consideration and respect the fact that a Magneto player can kill in one hit. The thing is though, is, and this what I think is the major key to the matchup, how is he supposed to get that one hit when there are projectiles and assists all over the place?

Also, I find, that a cat and mouse based game will work against Magneto. Why is this? Because of the simply knowing that every Magneto has to get close to actually hurt you, you can condition him into some situations that are a very bad disadvantage to him. This is because by rope-a-doping, and by switching to the offensive (becoming the cat) at the same frequency of play defense (becoming the mouse), you can really confuse the hell out of anyone, because they will not know when to do what at times, and thus leading in to an advantagous situation in which Magneto will get fried. It's also pretty funny to watch a Magneto player chase you like Tom chasing Jerry.

And also, keep in mind, that if Doom has Storm behind him, and two meters, that Magneto has to respect that APA xx hail will take off 60-90% off of anybody.

In closing, it is my belief, in that any strategy when playing Doom against a Magneto, that allows a player to be flexible on offense and defense, and most importantly, allow the player to lull the Magneto player into a false sense of security, will lead to Doom killing Magneto 98% of the time. Let's be honest, a high percentage of people plus the two up there, do not respect Doom and assume that is a free kill when he is on point against Magneto, however, with a calm mind and proper planning, any character can be beaten by any character, no matter who the player is using, it would do you some good to remember that. And also, before you go saying what you can do to counter things, remember, you won't know what you'll do until the match starts, so, it's useless to say "I'll do blah, and blah to counter that". It has no bearing to stop a properly executed gameplan, and speaking for myself, I execute my gameplans flawlessly.

That is when I don't have cold hands.....

[ParryPerson.]

you can really tell the Doom players from the random people that tried to learn him for a few days.

I do have to say almost every post I've read by "MagnetoManiac" has been horribly wrong, from him screwing up IM infinite help, to him saying you have to Fast Fly the LK in Doom's infinite. My first reply to this thread was obviously a joke, but not being afriad is a big deal. If the oppenent controls your mind he's already won.

[Dasrik]

But he's the pwner of Justin Wong !!!!1111oneone

[Augmint]

As always, you two are entitled to your opinion.

The thing is though, I play very good Magnetos on a very constant basis, and the fact of the matter is, maybe you guys should try facing good Dooms.

A good Doom will take into consideration and respect the fact that a Magneto player can kill in one hit. The thing is though, is, and this what I think is the major key to the matchup, how is he supposed to get that one hit when there are projectiles and assists all over the place?

Also, I find, that a cat and mouse based game will work against Magneto. Why is this? Because of the simply knowing that every Magneto has to get close to actually hurt you, you can condition him into some situations that are a very bad disadvantage to him. This is because by rope-a-doping, and by switching to the offensive (becoming the cat) at the same frequency of play defense (becoming the mouse), you can really confuse the hell out of anyone, because they will not know when to do what at times, and thus leading in to an advantagous situation in which Magneto will get fried. It's also pretty funny to watch a Magneto player chase you like Tom chasing Jerry.

And also, keep in mind, that if Doom has Storm behind him, and two meters, that Magneto has to respect that APA xx hail will take off 60-90% off of anybody.

In closing, it is my belief, in that any strategy when playing Doom against a Magneto, that allows a player to be flexible on offense and defense, and most importantly, allow the player to lull the Magneto player into a false sense of security, will lead to Doom killing Magneto 98% of the time. Let's be honest, a high percentage of people plus the two up there, do not respect Doom and assume that is a free kill when he is on point against Magneto, however, with a calm mind and proper planning, any character can be beaten by any character, no matter who the player is using, it would do you some good to remember that. And also, before you go saying what you can do to counter things, remember, you won't know what you'll do until the match starts, so, it's useless to say "I'll do blah, and blah to counter that". It has no bearing to stop a properly executed gameplan, and speaking for myself, I execute my gameplans flawlessly.

That is when I don't have cold hands.....

DHC to Hail isn't gonna do 90% even on a level 3 machine for starters.
Rope a dope? please.

What are you hitting these good magnetos with? (besides APA or assists?)
You could reply specifically to what I posted.

I do play Doom - he's good but he just gets owned by Sent and magneto.
Plus the fact the thread and title (the secret - just hit him?)

[ParryPerson.]

If you didn't understand the zen of "just hit him" (which implies alot more than just "hitting him")

Then your Doom is probably ass, or you just learned to play him in a style thats not productive to hitting Mags. He never said it was easy.

[Dasrik]

I can get the doubt about Magneto, but Sentinel I'm not quite getting. Doom vs. Sentinel is not terrible, unless you're all about throwing photons. Have you ever tried just jump roundhousing? It's safer than it looks.

[Augmint]

I can get the doubt about Magneto, but Sentinel I'm not quite getting. Doom vs. Sentinel is not terrible, unless you're all about throwing photons. Have you ever tried just jump roundhousing? It's safer than it looks.

So will you actually admit that Dooms normals don't help him against magneto and that he has to rely on APA or assists to land hits and win matches?
I can get that being scared of magneto gives mag players the mental edge but saying hit him with *anything* is being flippant.

BTW - Doom does OK against sent (nightmare is an overstatement), but like I posted earlier - most Doom teams nowdays are based on having Doom as an assist, not teams based around Doom.
IIRC you use Doom with BH and Commando, thats a good team to play against sentinels.

[Augmint]

If you didn't understand the zen of "just hit him" (which implies alot more than just "hitting him")

Then your Doom is probably ass, or you just learned to play him in a style thats not productive to hitting Mags. He never said it was easy.

I always thought zen was a pile of shit.
I replied to dasriks post *literally* - in that he said lose the fear and hit him.
I get the first part but Doom's normals don't help him against Magneto.
I didn't say that you should give up or that Doom isn't a good character - read exactly what I posted and QUOTE AND REPLY SPECIFICALLY TO IT.

Most Doom teams have Doom third, not Doom with say storm or sent and an AAA
Most magneto teams have psylocke (half to two thirds) , or TRon or sent Proj A.
So Doom can 't really risk using pokes or his launcher, and magnetos lk tri jumps help Magneto get in his face. So Doom's ground normals are snuffed to a degree.
Doom can still zone quite well but APA is where he is going to land most of his damage.
There... tell me specifically what you agree and disagree with.

What exactly is is a style productive to hitting mags? - good zoning i can get, helpful assists I can get, baiting to land APA I can get - I just literally don't think Dooms normals help against good magnetos.

[TS]

^I don't think me mentioned that got to use all of your nomal moves.

Anytime you're above Magneto in the air, you have an advantage, or basically anytime you're both at SJ level. It's not as big as the one Magneto generally has on the ground, but beating a good Doom without getting hit with APA/random mixup or getting your assist DHCd, does require the Mag player to know what they're doing.

This does, of course vary depending on the teams used.

[Dasrik]

Relying on APA against Magneto is a fast way to die unless you have a good DHC, which of course means you're banking on getting Doom out. In any case, it's not true that Doom doesn't have good normals.

In just about any situation you can think of when fighting Magneto, you can dash up to them and hit standing fierce, and they'll run right into it. It doesn't do any damage. It could kill you if it whiffs. But the point is to make them THINK. Once they're playing at your pace, you can start doing things.

In just about any situation you can think of when fighting Magneto, you can dash up to them and do a hopping roundhouse, and they'll fail to block it. It doesn't set up a good situation. It could kill you if they do block it. But the point is to make them THINK. Once they're playing at your pace, you can start doing things.

You want to play counter to common sense in this case. Magneto's rushdown is, for the most part, so good because nobody dares to challenge it. But if you attempt to do so, then it ceases to become about whether or not you're blocking correctly, and becomes about who can guess better.

It's never a good situation to be in in any game, but in MvC2 you're forced to be the best guesser to win the game.

[Augmint]

Relying on APA against Magneto is a fast way to die unless you have a good DHC, which of course means you're banking on getting Doom out. In any case, it's not true that Doom doesn't have good normals.

In just about any situation you can think of when fighting Magneto, you can dash up to them and hit standing fierce, and they'll run right into it. It doesn't do any damage. It could kill you if it whiffs. But the point is to make them THINK. Once they're playing at your pace, you can start doing things.

In just about any situation you can think of when fighting Magneto, you can dash up to them and do a hopping roundhouse, and they'll fail to block it. It doesn't set up a good situation. It could kill you if they do block it. But the point is to make them THINK. Once they're playing at your pace, you can start doing things.

You want to play counter to common sense in this case. Magneto's rushdown is, for the most part, so good because nobody dares to challenge it. But if you attempt to do so, then it ceases to become about whether or not you're blocking correctly, and becomes about who can guess better.

It's never a good situation to be in in any game, but in MvC2 you're forced to be the best guesser to win the game.

So you prove my my point about Doom not having good normals to *HIT* *Magneto*
by talking about HP and hopping HK - moves you say could get you killed ( so basically high risk little return (excluding Hp Roman candle frame cancel) and this is somehow gonna make magneto THINK what exactly? I don't think hitting magneto with those two normals is gonna help you control (slow?)the pace of the match, nor is it gonna intimidate a good player- what I'm talking about is Doom LANDING HITS (i'm not arguing about zoning).

Nothing you have said has changed my mind about hitting magneto - you either have a good anti air to get him out of your face and stop/hinder tri jumps or you zone well with an assist like drones and force magneto to dash so you have APA oppportunities.

How are you gonna challenge his rushdown otherwise?



You want to play counter to common sense in this case. Magneto's rushdown is, for the most part, so good because nobody dares to challenge it. But if you attempt to do so, then it ceases to become about whether or not you're blocking correctly, and becomes about who can guess better.

It's never a good situation to be in in any game, but in MvC2 you're forced to be the best guesser to win the game

I don't understand anything you say here - is it a zen riddle?
How exactly are you challenging his rushdown? and what is magneto forced to geuss?

[Dasrik]

Why don't you ask Viscant these questions? He'll probably give you the exact same answers.

The fact that you even feel the need to ask the questions already show me that my (crappy) strategies would work on you. Doubt kills the mind.

[Augmint]

Why don't you ask Viscant these questions? He'll probably give you the exact same answers.

The fact that you even feel the need to ask the questions already show me that my (crappy) strategies would work on you. Doubt kills the mind.

Why don't you answer simple direct questions?
I'm not gonna bother viscant - he's retired isn't he?

Yeah I do feel the need to challenge what your posting. I think your posting counter to common sense.

BTW I agree your strats are crappy.

[Dasrik]

You don't get it, do you? If you think I'm going to tell you how to beat me, you came to the wrong chump.

[ParryPerson.]

It's like he wants it spoon fed or something, he's kinda runing in circles, and it seems he doesn't WANT to understand.

You can't force people to think I guess.

[Augmint]

Ok guys you win :wink:
Go to sleep tonight with a smile on your face.

[MagnetoManiac]

you can really tell the Doom players from the random people that tried to learn him for a few days.

I do have to say almost every post I've read by "MagnetoManiac" has been horribly wrong, from him screwing up IM infinite help, to him saying you have to Fast Fly the LK in Doom's infinite. My first reply to this thread was obviously a joke, but not being afriad is a big deal. If the oppenent controls your mind he's already won.

this makes u a true mvc2 dumbass. because you DO have to fast fly doom's lk to inf. oh and lemme guess. ur gonna parry all of mag's rushdown huh? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: and please, PLEASE link me to where i fucked up the IM infinite :'[ :rolleyes:

[ParryPerson.]

.....


you don't have to fast fly the LK in Dooms infinite you dolt. I'll find the link to that ironman shit.

[Dasrik]

In my experience, Doom's infinite is easier to complete if you fast fly the short. But it's not necessary. I've done it with and without.

[Malachi]

All right, I can't let this one go.

.
...and not take Dasriks word as gospel.

I take Dasrik's word not as gospel, but as something worth thinking quite strongly about. When he posts something, I'm certain he's tested it thoroughly and has at least a very strong idea that what he says will work. It's rare to find that these days, and something I applaud. Simply put, Dasrik is a better poster than most people, and so I pay more attention to what he says.

[Augmint]

All right, I can't let this one go.



I take Dasrik's word not as gospel, but as something worth thinking quite strongly about. When he posts something, I'm certain he's tested it thoroughly and has at least a very strong idea that what he says will work. It's rare to find that these days, and something I applaud. Simply put, Dasrik is a better poster than most people, and so I pay more attention to what he says.

Well then - see if you can play counter to common sense and challenge magnetos rushdown ( whatever that means Dasrik.. please explain) and see what s Hp and jumping roundhouse gets you. Once again... tell me what I posted that you disagree with.

My point is simple - magneto is Dooms worst match up of the big four (less bad if you have good assists) - Dooms normals don't help him land hits - dasrik thinks otherwise.
Whats wrong with challenging what people post?

btw Dasrik thanks for your edit (where you called me a ***)

[Dasrik]

Challenging Magneto's rushdown means knowing that he can't be everywhere at once.

Doom's worst matchup of the "so-called" god tier is not Magneto, it's Sentinel.

[incognegro]

ok i will tell u this from experience b/c i am a doom player i will tell u if mag has an anti air or sent has a ground control assist then its over for doom unless some miracle happens. Sorry to tell u all doom is a goood assist but thats all in my opinion when i come to the big 4. If someone has a different opion then let me know

[Augmint]

Challenging Magneto's rushdown means knowing that he can't be everywhere at once.

Doom's worst matchup of the "so-called" god tier is not Magneto, it's Sentinel.


[QUOTE=Dasrik]I can get the doubt about Magneto, but Sentinel I'm not quite getting. Doom vs. Sentinel is not terrible, unless you're all about throwing photons. Have you ever tried just jump roundhousing? It's safer than it looks.[\QUOTE]

.........

[ParryPerson.]

......

it IS safer than it looks, it has weird properties and can be canceled out of at anytime, after it's blocked you can airdash and call assist, think, McFly, THINK.

[Dasrik]

Augmint, you're an idiot.

I mean, it's getting to the point where that's all I can say. I'm raising my points and all you have for me is sarcasm. Who the hell are you anyway?

You're an idiot, that is all.

[Augmint]

Augmint, you're an idiot.

I mean, it's getting to the point where that's all I can say. I'm raising my points and all you have for me is sarcasm. Who the hell are you anyway?

You're an idiot, that is all.

sarcasm huh?
where does calling me *** and idiot come into it?
Why ask who am I then call me an idiot?
I got no beef with what your've posted on srk except for on this thread.

I stand by my original point - Doom won't beat magneto with his normals as opposed to getting an APA and having good assists. Your rebuttal to him not having good normals against magneto said it all.


And as for your explanation as to challenging magnetos rushdown - Challenging Magneto's rushdown means knowing that he can't be everywhere at once -
why couldn't you just say it comes down to space control/zoning?

[QOUTE=DASRIK] Magneto's rushdown is, for the most part, so good because nobody dares to challenge it. But if you attempt to do so, then it ceases to become about whether or not you're blocking correctly, and becomes about who can guess better. [\QUOTE]

So you say nobody dares to challenge mag rushdown - but then you say (and I'm paraphrasing) that it comes down to space control/ zoning. Profound insight... I geuss nobody ever played Doom that way.
There's your fucking sarcasm.

[ParryPerson.]

You should ask Skisonic about dash fierce.

Or I guess, play any good Doom.

Thanks.

[Dasrik]

I'm not being sarcastic, Augmint. You really are an idiot.

[Shin Ace]

I'd have to agree with Dasrik, this is a fruitless conversation...

If you want to talk Doom being the underdog, talk Sentinel, not magz.

[gouki10]

if you have the answer than tell someone if not......FUCK OFF......thats all i got to say.

[Dasrik]

Not all questions have certainty. The problem is SRK kids don't want help, they want a win button they can steal. And they are the ones that should fuck off. "thats all i got to say"

[Magnetro]

SJC his cr.hk before it comes out if you're in a bad spot (like you rush in on Magneto or something and he blocks your attack chain). I'm not sure if cr.lk cr.mk cr.hp > qcf+LP is safe if they pushblock at the right time...So, for what it's worth cr.hk > sjc is useful (and easy). + its +1 cr.hk worth ammount of meter :confused:

[ParryPerson.]

If you can get off Cr.Roundhouse, and you need Doom OUT, SJC it into Super APA (awesome chip) and DHC out to sent (or hail)

[gouki10]

seriously if you play doom as your main........YOU SUCK. so there for this thread is meaninngless.

[ParryPerson.]

I'm paying attention to you. I'm reading your post. I'm responding to you.

Feel better emo-kid? Someone noticed you.

Now get lost.

[Dasrik]

seriously if you play doom as your main........YOU SUCK. so there for this thread is meaninngless.
Your name is gouki10. You play Oro in Third Strike.

Next, please. I'm sick of Internet scrubs.

[TS]

...you an superjump cancel Doom's c.RK if it's blocked? ....

What's basically being said is that Doom should make Magneto doubt himself. Anytime Magneto is thinking, that is a bad thing for Magneto. I can understand why that would be a new concept to a lot of newer players (MvC2-only, specifically Magneto players), but it's actually something you'll stumble across a lot in any underdog/disadvantaged match.

@Augmint- about the double-quoting of Dasrik: He's saying that Doom's worst match in the top 4 was Sentinel, but that it was still winnable.


Regarding Sent vs Doom: this depends a lot on teams. Sent/Commando is different from Team Row, and if Sent doesn't have Commando behind him, that makes things easier for Doom since Sent is more likely to get his assist DHCd on. Advantage still with Sent, but at least then he sorta needs to know what he's doing. Commando cuts off a lot of Doom's options.

[Augmint]

@Augmint- about the double-quoting of Dasrik: He's saying that Doom's worst match in the top 4 was Sentinel, but that it was still winnable.


yeah I know what he was saying - I think its winnable only if Doom has certain assists.
I 'm still sticking by my point that when Doom beats magneto its going to be because the damage is through AAA or APA . With half the magnetos you fight against having psylocke assist and magnetos priority on his light kicks you have to be extremely prudent in how you use his normals.

I don't think magneto is going to doubt himself over getting hit by Dooms normals - good anti air, and APA XX
is where Doom wins matches period.

[BlackHeartKing]

wow you people are so violent =P

IMHO Doom can fare pretty well against Mags even on a one on one matchup unless the Mag player has really good patience, and these are my reasons why.

From personal experience, Doom's air lk beats out just about all of mag's air attacks, so most mags will be using the ground dash to get close up b4 they can tri-jump rushdowns. This is where what Dasrik said comes in.

If you actually interrupt their ground dashes by doing the standing FPs and crouching RHs enough (I've found that you can often catch a ground dashing Mag with the basic dash in cr.lk, cr.lk, cr.FP) instead of being beam happy in the air, the opponent will usually take to the air to try and get closer to you. And this is where you have the advantage.

In short, if you do nothing but run from Mag, he'll catch you eventually and rape you. But if you actually come to him and "hit him" as it was put, you'll cause the player to take to the air, at which point you can cross them up.

I know this has been said like 80 times but that's as simple as it can be explained.
If you want to see this tactic being put in action, watch some of Mike Z's vids and see how a lot of what he does would work even without the assist.

Final comment, what I've put by no means says that a doom will be beating Mag like it's nothing by doing this. It just says that you won't just be a combo video waiting to happen by using doom. ^_^

[yoshi*]

that's a david vs goliath match, although david did win,lol. nothing is impossible.