Naruto 7.0

[Ki Shima]

naruto who couldn't learn transformation jutsu no matter how hard he tried was able to learn tajuu kage bushin no jutsu even before he could use (or was aware of) the kyuubi's chakara.

Inconsistant inconsistant.

inconsistant inconsistant

naruto is a boy who claims to better everyone else, he didnt wanna follow anyone.

it was psychologically impossible to want to be anyone else.

tagyu replicates naruto....

see?

the lone wolf doesnt walk on two legs

[Power Man Fox]

... D:

2.) ... Kishimoto's a Dragon Ball fanatic, and based Naruto's character on Kuririn.

Actually, that second bit probably won't help matters any.

Oh well.

I thought he was more like goku :sweat:

[Hokuto Shingo]

I thought he was more like goku :sweat:

No because Goku was overflowing with strength from day one.

[TheDarkPhoenix]

He seems more like goku to me with the "huge power inside of him" that he randomly has...

[nameingway]

No because Goku was overflowing with strength from day one.

actually, goku was weak compared to the other saiyans, but strong compared to humans (i've been watching the dbz dvds recently).

[SaiST]

He seems more like goku to me with the "huge power inside of him" that he randomly has...
The closest thing Gokuu ever had to a random power-up was his Super Saiyajin transformation, and I don't think you could call that "random" after he first used it--it stuck with 'im.

The only thing Naruto really shares in common with Gokuu is his idiocy outside of battle.

[Zachman]

He seems more like goku to me with the "huge power inside of him" that he randomly has...

Don't you mean Gohan?

[TheDarkPhoenix]

Nah i mean goku because of the fact that he "never gives up "and always wants to help out the "bad guy" Also he has that same mental as goku "i'll train non stop until I can save *insert random thing here* or beat *Random person*" Not only that he has the "magical power" to gains people trust.

In terms of Raw power tho i guess he is more like young Gohan. With the mental of goku

[Adam Warlock]

The only thing Naruto really shares in common with Gokuu is his idiocy outside of battle.

Uh, no.

Nah, don't let them sway you TheDarkPhoenix, Naruto IS goku.

Well-known trickster? Check
No common sense? Check
Forbidden power that had to be restrained? Check
Wins fights by "heart", even when outclassed? Check
Converts enemies? Check
Voracious appetite? Check
New move saves the day? Check
Training method that allows him to train MUCH faster than anyone else? Check

[Hokuto Shingo]

Uh, no.

Nah, don't let them sway you TheDarkPhoenix, Naruto IS goku.

Well-known trickster? Check
No common sense? Check
Forbidden power that had to be restrained? Check
Wins fights by "heart", even when outclassed? Check
Converts enemies? Check
Voracious appetite? Check
New move saves the day? Check
Training method that allows him to train MUCH faster than anyone else? Check

But when was Goku ever been laughed at for being a scrub? When was Goku ever weak?

[nameingway]

when he was born and amongst the other saiyans. amongst his own people at birth he was weak as fuck, he has like a power level of 2 (referencing his first movie with broly). broly had a power level of 10k at birth.

yep, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broly#Childhood/

edit: granted, that is the most extreme example i could use and i don't know the average power level of a new born; however, 2 sounds pretty pathetic and they even make fun of it in the movie as if it is indeed small.

[Adam Warlock]

But when was Goku ever been laughed at for being a scrub? When was Goku ever weak?

Anytime Vegeta talked to him until he went SSJ.

Thanks for the assist.

when he was born and amongst the other saiyans.

[SaiST]

Well-known trickster?
Beyond some clever use of Zanzouken in one or two fights when he was younger, I don't recall Gokuu being much of a "trickster".

Forbidden power that had to be restrained?
What? The Oozaru transformation he didn't know about 'til he was in his 20's? :o

Wins fights by "heart", even when outclassed?
1-on-1, he's never won fights where he's faced clearly superior opponents.

... Well, there is Freezer. But I wouldn't put that entirely on heart. It was his rage that triggered his SSj transformation, but he was clearly Freezer's superior by the end.

Converts enemies?
Point.

Voracious appetite?
Gokuu would've eaten anything.

When he was lil', Gokuu would've eaten YOU! O_O




Naruto has a normal appetite in comparision, he's just eats ramen. :I

New move saves the day? Check
Kamehameha
Genki Dama
Kaioken
Shunkan Idou

Amongst those, when they were "new", only the Genki Dama has saved the day.

... Unless you consider SSj a move.

Training method that allows him to train MUCH faster than anyone else?
TKB training method is truly something only Naruto can do.

Gokuu wasn't the only one to train in an enviroment with 10-100x Earth's gravity, or spend a day or two in the Room of Spirit and Time. He's gone through the same training as others and gained much more.

Honestly, a lot of main SJ characters share those traits. o_0 Beyond what you'd expect from a character with a leading role in a SJ manga, Naruto doesn't remind me a whole lot of Gokuu.

when he was born and amongst the other saiyans. amongst his own people at birth he was weak as fuck, he has like a power level of 2 (referencing his first movie with broly). broly had a power level of 10k at birth.

yep, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broly#Childhood/
That shit ain't canon. :P

[Adam Warlock]

Beyond some clever use of Zanzouken in one or two fights when he was younger, I don't recall Gokuu being much of a "trickster".

So the monkey king legend he was based on was a lie?

What? The Oozaru transformation he didn't know about 'til he was in his 20's? :o


What? You mean like the nine-tails that goku didn't know about until his teens? I mean, it's not like they cut off Goku's tail to prevent him from wreaking havoc... is it?


1-on-1, he's never won fights where he's faced clearly superior opponents. Closest example I can recall is against Piccolo during the 23rd Tenkaichi Budoukai, but they were very close in terms of strength.
Frieza was on another level before super sayain shit saved the day.

Gokuu would've eaten anything.

When he was lil', Gokuu would've eaten YOU! O_O




Naruto has a normal appetite in comparision, he's just eats ramen. :I
In comparison to what? Only Choji can out eat him.


TKB training method is truly something only Naruto can do.

No, it's something only someone with a lot of chakra can do. Anyone + ninetails or other beast can do it.

Honestly, a lot of main SJ characters share those traits. o_0 Beyond what you'd expect from a character with a leading role in a SJ manga, Naruto doesn't remind me a whole lot of Gokuu.

Which is kind of my point. ALL SJ leading characters share traits so to say Naruto isn't similar to Goku is a gross understatement IMO.

[Ki Shima]

lol naruto is goku, you got that right.

i always saw naruto and sasuke being goku jr and vegeta jr, naruto even wears his headband the same way.

sasuke is the authority blood line and expected to be top tier like vegeta.

goku is based on monkey king. the ultimate trickster

if anyones krillin its shikamaru

[The Epidemic]

lol naruto is goku, you got that right.

i always saw naruto and sasuke being goku jr and vegeta jr, naruto even wears his headband the same way.

sasuke is the authority blood line and expected to be top tier like vegeta.

goku is based on monkey king. the ultimate trickster

if anyones krillin its shikamaru

but krillin wasnt a genuis....shikamaru is more like piccolo

[SaiST]

...

Still don't think Naruto is that similar to Gokuu. ._.

Couple of spoiler summaries have already been posted, this one sounds the most believable:

ナルトの新技に驚く一同（特にカカシ、イノ、チョウジ）
*Pretty much everybody is surprised by Naruto’s new technique (particularly Kakashi, Ino and Chouji)


カクズ当たればやばいが、弱点の火の属性で攻撃すれば問題ないと
で火遁つかう
ナルト炎に包まれる
*Kakuzu thinks to himself that it would be really bad if he got hit by the attack but that if he attacks using the technique’s weakness, fire, that there should be no problem. Kakuzu then attacks using a katon technique and Naruto is enveloped in flames.

カカシがやばいと思い、助けに行こうとする。
*Kakashi, thinking that this is bad, tries to go an rescue him.

しかし、ヤマトが止めに入り「まだ終わってません、しっかり見ていてください」と微笑む。
*However, Yamato goes to stop him and smiles saying, “It’s not over yet. Please watch closely.”

火煙のなかからナルトが見える。
*Out of the fire and smoke we see Naruto appear.

手裏剣を構えて盾みたいにしている
*He’s positioned the Shuriken and is using it like a shield.

あと、手裏剣がクルクル回ってる。
*The Shuriken is also spinning.

カクズ弱点のはずの火が何故効いていないのか驚く
*Kakuzu is freaked thinking why his fire attack, which should have been the Shuriken’s weakness, didn’t work.

カカシ達も驚く
*Kakashi and friends are also surprised.

と、ここでヤマトがネタバラシ
*This is where Yamato reveals why the fire attack didn’t work.

簡単にいえばナルトのあの手裏剣は刃物の部分は風の属性で、
真ん中の丸っこい部分は今までの無属性螺旋岩らしい
その丸い部分と回転により、火を掻き消した？らしい
（説明下手ですまん＾＾；、この辺は他のネタバレ氏にきいてくれ）
*To put it simply, The blades of Naruto’s Shuriken are made of wind but the middle of the Shuriken is still the same old Rasengan without any sort of element added to it. Because of the spinning and the middle part of the technique he’s able to put out the fire (the writer of the spoiler then says that his/her explanation isn’t very good so hopefully ask one of the other spoiler writers for more detail)

カクズ
自分の一匹を囮にしてその隙にナルトを捕らえると考える。
Kakuzu then uses one of his mask things as a decoy so he can find an opening and get Naruto.

ヒダン火のやつを体からまた離す。
*The fire mask separates from Kakuzu.

カカシがヤマトに対して援護しなくていいのかと聞くが
*Kakashi asks Yamato if it’s really okay not to help Naruto, but…

カマトは、さっきのは悪魔で『防御』で今からが本当の『攻撃』で見せ場だみたいなことと言う。
*Yamato says that before was just a “shield” and that now we’re about to see the “attack.”

ここで修業の時の回想その見せ場についての回想です。
*We then see a flaskback of the training and the technique’s results.

回想終了
*End of flashback.

ナルト「行くってばよ」と言いまた、クリリンみたいに掲る。
Naruto: “I’m going for it.” *As he again raises his hand like Krillin.

また手裏剣が回転し始める。
*The Shuriken starts to spin again.

おしまい
*The end

携帯からなので疲れました＾＾；
多少省略したところもあるますが、その辺は他のネタバレ氏に・・
(Spoiler writer’s comment: I’m writing this from a cellphone so I’m tired…I abbreviated some things so hopefully some other spoiler person will fill in…)

[catchafire]

Cool...

[marn]

omg..

[ShinAkumax]

Sounds boring.

[Ki Shima]

but krillin wasnt a genuis....shikamaru is more like piccolo

krillin could be a genius..... LOL

shik is lazy he gives up too easilly, i dont remember piccolo being lazy, but i guess the progress could involve both characters, i dont think its meant to be dragon ball 2

all im saying is kishi may of had both in mind

[The Epidemic]

just wanted to share....http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/4382/byrisachantagbn3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[BananaWeed]

just wanted to share....http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/4382/byrisachantagbn3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Did you draw those? If so, they look really good. :tup:

[The Epidemic]

Did you draw those? If so, they look really good. :tup:

no...i didnt this guy on deviant art does madd pics like this...hes really good..

[Zachman]

Sasuke is still one of the best characters in the Naruto world.

[Mario Lemieux!]

I'm waiting for someone to learn the Special Beam Cannon.


!!!

[SaiST]

Another spoiler summary, I'm leaning more towards this one now:

unconfirmed, but some on 2ch say it's the real thing.
簡易バレ

ナルト「風遁・螺旋手裏剣・・これで決めるってばよ」
Naruto: "Fuuton rasenshuriken - I'll settle it with this"

角都の前・右・左の三方向から同時に影分身で攻めるが
He attacks Kakusu's front/right/left with kage-bunshins
ことごとく迎撃され、影分身はふっとぶ
They get intercepted one after another, and the kage-bunshins get tossed away

そこへ背後から本体のナルトが新術で突っ込んでくる
Then from behind, the real naruto comes attacking with his new technique
ナルト「やらァー！」
Naruto: "Yaraa~!"
角都　「しまっ・・」
Kakuzu: "Damn it..."

「　ド　ッ　」
ナルトの一撃は角都にクリーンヒット！
Naurto's attack makes a clean hit on Kakuzu

しかし、当たる寸前に螺旋丸はしぼんで消えていた
but, before it hit, the rasengan had shrunken and had disappeared

チョージ「え？」
Chouji: "Wha?"
イノ　　「何？勝ったの？」
Ino: : "What? did he win?"
ヤマト　「・・・・・・」
　　　「失敗だ」（ヤマト顔がゆがんでいる）
Yamato:"...."
"He messed up" (Yamato's face looks wry)

カカシ「さすが意外性の忍者だ。やってくれる」
Kakashi: "Yup, the unpredictable ninja did it again"
カカシはヤマトと援護に入る。
Kakashi and Yamato come to reinforce

角都の触手でナルトはつかまるが、カカシが雷切の
Naruto gets caught up in Kakuzu's tentacles, but
ようなバチバチという手刀で断ち切り、ヤマトの木遁の
Kakashi's Raikiri-like chop cuts him loose,
連鎖攻撃で角都を遠くへ追い払う
and Yamato's mokuton attack immediately follows and chases Kakuzu far away.

ナルト「くっそォ」
Naruto: "Crap!"
イノ　「かっこつけるだけつけといて・・ナルトらしいったら
　　　ナルトらしいけど」
Ino:"He looked really good until then... but I guess this is Naruto acting like Naruto himself.
チョージ「螺旋手裏剣っていうからピューって飛ばすのかと
　　　思ったら・・走ってぶつけないとダメなの？」
Chouji: "I thought he said RasenShuriken, so I thought he would fly it at him, but you have to run and hit him with it?"
ナルト　「何だよ！当たればスゲーんだぞ！」
Naruto:" Hey! It's amazing if it hits!"

新術はゼロ距離で相手にぶつけないとだめ。そのため陽動が基本
The new technique has to be executed at point blank, therefore a diversion is absolutely necessary.
おまけに発動持続時間はもって数秒である
On top of that, it takes a few seconds to get the technique started.

角都（あの術近づかなければ大丈夫だな。接近戦を避け術を持つ
　　　オリジナルに注意を払っていればさほど怖くはない）
Kakuzu (as long as I don't get close to that technique I should be fine. And as long as I avoid close range battle and keep an eye on the original that creates that technique, it's not too scary.)

ナルト「もう一度オレにやらせてくれってばよ」
Naruto: "Let me try it again one more time."
カカシ「・・・」
Kakashi:"..."
ナルト「新術で決めてやる」
Naruto: "I'll do this with the new technique."

角都の実力から今度は全員で角都を攻めるようイノ達が反対する
Since Kakuzu's pretty powerful, Ino objects, saying that everyone should attack Kakuzu
カカシ「確かにな・・この状況・・今は五体一だ」
　　　「危ない橋を渡る必要もない」
Kakashi:"True... We're currently going five against one. There's no need to cross dangerous bridges."

角都　（さて・・どう来る？）
Kakuzu: "now... what are they going to do?)
ナルト「カカシ先生」「修行中にオレに言ったこと覚えてるか？」
Naruto: "Kakashi-sensei, do you remember what you said to me during our training?"
カカシ「？」
Kakashi:"?"
ナルト「四代目火影を超える忍はお前しかいないと信じてるって」
　　　「確かにチームワークは大切だ。それは分かってる」
　　　「でも今オレは危ない橋を一人で渡りたいんだってばよ」
Naruto:"You told me that you believe that I'm the only shinobi that can surpass the 4th Hokage. Teamwork is very important, I know. But right now, I want to try to cross that dangerous bridge on my own"
　　　
　　　「向こうへたどりつけなきゃオレはいつまでたっても
　　　　ガキのままだ」
　　　（カカシ考えている）
Naruto:"If I don't get to the other side, I'll always be the same kid"
(Kakashi thinking)
　　　「その橋を外すようなことはしないでくれ」
"PLease don't do anything to push that bridge aside."
　　　（回想でサスケのアップ）
(Flashback and Sasuke's face appears)

カカシ「・・・・・・」
　　　「フッ・・ヤマトお前はどうだ？」
Kakashi:"..."
"Hm... Yamato, what about it?"
ヤマト「ええ・・だって見てないですよね」
　　　「以前のナルトとは別人だってところ」
Yamato:"Yeah... you haven't seen it yet right -
that Naruto is a completely different individual than before"
カカシ「・・決まりだな」
Kakashi:"then it's decided"
... Because Naruto's still failing. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Kishimoto kills Naruto's hype like that--would upset me, but it wouldn't surprise me.

Only thing that makes me wonder is Kakuzu not saying anything about Yamato's Mokuton. Seeing as how his ability revolves around using strong elemental affinities, you would think the sight of Mokuton would have him quite excited--'specially considering that he fought Shodai. That's the only thing that makes me think this spoiler summary may be fake.

[InfiniDragon615]

Ha ha, damn. Please let the first spoiler be true, this one just makes Naruto into a bad joke. Sad thing is that you're right, this one does have a distinct aura of Kishi to it (aka effing up).

[Adam Warlock]

Kishi's not effing up, you guys are hating on him for the one thing he's getting right. Naruto at it's core is about can the hardworker beat the genius. The moment Naruto becomes so focused that he doesn't make mistakes the question is answered. It would kill the series (even more) if Naruto became bad-ass in the middle like everyone else wants/expects. I see so many people wanting Naruto to go SSJ on everyone, but if Naruto becomes "the best" he loses all motivation and his character fails. His only goal is to be the best. If he achieves that (especially this early) the manga becomes pointless. No one likes DBZ but it seems like everyone wants Naruto to be that Goku/Gohan.

[ViciousSLASH]

Um, Kishi's been effing up.

Are you too black to understand?

[Adam Warlock]

Um, Kishi's been effing up.

Are you too black to understand?

Perhaps if you'd finished college you could understand the fact that I said this is the one thing he's getting right.

[ViciousSLASH]

Perhaps if you'd finished college you could understand the fact that I said this is the one thing he's getting right.

Perhaps DBZ was awesome and we want Naruto to be cool.

BELIEVE IT.

The only character Kishi has gotten down perfectly so far is Shikamaru. Everyone else he's just made completely useless or totally annoying.

[Adam Warlock]

Perhaps DBZ was awesome and we want Naruto to be cool.

BELIEVE IT.

The only character Kishi has gotten down perfectly so far is Shikamaru. Everyone else he's just made completely useless or totally annoying.

SASUSKE IS STILL THAT NIGGA TIMES TWO! Don't make me sweep the leg!

And no, he hasn't fucked up that bad. The problem is if people don't see someone OMGWTFPWNEDJUTSU they think a character is useless. Personally I'm more interested in the back stories behind the families (Like hinata) than I am who can make the biggest ki ball.

[Havoc]

Gotta agree with A-Dubs on this one.

If Naruto ever comes through and is all bad-ass, the series is over. There's no point in going on.

[ViciousSLASH]

SASUSKE IS STILL THAT NIGGA TIMES TWO! Don't make me sweep the leg!

And no, he hasn't fucked up that bad. The problem is if people don't see someone OMGWTFPWNEDJUTSU they think a character is useless. Personally I'm more interested in the back stories behind the families (Like hinata) than I am who can make the biggest ki ball.

Nigga please, we all know Rock Lee is the best character and he doesn't even use Ki balls. He just has giant rock boulders where his testicals should be.

Besides Hinata is useless and half the characters don't even have parents.

[Robust]

Naruto is about to son the atasuki HARD BODY. dbz was gdlk btw.

[P. Gorath]

first the comic thread and now this, damn adam warlock, you are a nerds nerd of epic proportions

[Ki Shima]

dbz had epic battles in the bag, and bad guys wiv big balls, thats why you kept watching it


and the naruto series isnt messing up cos like iv always said your still here arent you :rofl:

i think you lot read/watch too much manga, everything kishi does that annoys u attracts me cos all the other animes bore me to death with the same shit

i dont get it? how the fuck can you write a story wrong? its the dumbest thing iv ever heard

[Mycah Leonhart]

I'm sorry - I don't read the threa for fear of spoilers but I have a few questions.

I know "Part 2" starts airing on Feb 15th (thank fucking god!!!) I know everyone grows up, can't wait to start watching it again cause after I think 164 I couldn't take the filler anymore but I will grab 220 (when does 220 air by the way?)

Anyhow my main question is, How are the younger kids now? - I'm talking about the 3rd's Grandson Hotokomaru & Co. are they in "ninja school" yet?, etc

[Bowza]

Anyhow my main question is, How are the younger kids now? - I'm talking about the 3rd's Grandson Hotokomaru & Co. are they in "ninja school" yet?, etc

They passed the academy and they're doin the 3-genin 1 jounin thing now.

[Stabby]

Having Naruto succeed once wouldn't be so bad.

When was the last time he won an encounter? Gaara?

[Mycah Leonhart]

They passed the academy and they're doin the 3-genin 1 jounin thing now.


Thanks - any manga chapters based on them?

Chapters on them = Episodes, what powers do THEY have?!

[TheRock]

We all know the secret technique Naruto is about to unleash...


http://img246.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1170183250248ja8.gif

[Bowza]

Thanks - any manga chapters based on them?

Chapters on them = Episodes, what powers do THEY have?!

Nah they haven't really shown anything like that, its been more like "hey I'm konohamaru and I'm a genin! Peace"

[4neqs]

Y halo thar Chapter 340.

http://community.livejournal.com/chuunin/3023614.html

[Stabby]

Scissors didn't work?!

He should have just started with Rock.

[catchafire]

What a bullshit chapter... Kishi just milking this shit...

[InfiniDragon615]

I wasn't expecting him to look uber badass and kill off Kakuzu in one shot, but damn. Having the technique fizzle out? Having to be saved AGAIN? Having Ino, the absolute most useless shinobi in the entire series short of Tenten trash talking him? That's bull. Besides that, Naruto has never gotten to defeat someone with relative ease unless he's in the full-on tailed Kyuubi mode. It actually would be a change to see him do what he said he was going to do the first time, without anyone else running interference. If this had been a one on one situation, Naruto would be dead right now. And after the equivalent of years of training via Kage Bunshin, running effing combat simulations with clones, and Shika pretty much raping Hidan in his bed, I was expecting to see him do a bit better.

Folks may say "pfft, he almost killed an S-Rank criminal in one hit" and all that jazz, but the fact of the matter is he didn't. Special K had to bail him out...again. How many second chances is he going to get before he gets to shine the first time? I didn't want an utter own fest, all I wanted was him to get one of the hearts with Rasenshuriken, exchange blows, both shinobi show off some cool techniques (maybe some more Fuuton tricks on Naruto's part), and then Naruto comes out on top. Again, it didn't have to be a supreme asskicking. Just let the kid do something impressive on his own for once.

By no means does this imply "zomg the manga sucks", but this was basically a wasted chapter, seeing as Naruto is going to kill Kakuzu anyway. They could've let him get one of the hearts, get out of the situation himself, and did a lot more justice to the character, and changed absolutely nothing about the outcome.

[Rodimus]

damn, just let Naruto shine a lil bit. oh well--hopefully next chapter shikamaru re-joins the squad and will come up with a plan of how Naruto's Rasenshuriken can work in their current situation.

I mean shit it is 5 on 1 right now.

?uestion all this time and Ino hasn't improved her offense??--

[TheRedCyclone]

next chapter Shika comes back with a Kagemane from behind as Kakuzu tries to dodge the rasengan. i'm calling it now.

[ben]

I liked the chapter. naruto failed, but actively wants to improve. isn't that the point of shounen titles? to fight against the odds to better yourself? the speech he gave about bridges and stuff shows that naruto has at least grown as a character and shows maturity.

[TheDarkPhoenix]

Naruto will only shine during very very important archs and fights. From him to do otherwise would change the whole show. The point where naruto can beat enemys fairly regularly is the point hwere the show has to change names to naruto X or something....

He will always be the underdog, that steps up to save the day...

It woulda been cool if he coulda took out a heart, but ultimately it wouldn't mean much. He'll prob get the finishing blow or something tho..

[The_Dragon]

I think people are simply becoming tired of the fact that Naruto has essentially undergone years of training, and been tutored by just about every Konoha beast Ninja in the series, yet still shows very little results for all of this. Naruto could still be the underdog without making him look like a retard.

[Mickey D']

I think people are simply becoming tired of the fact that Naruto has essentially undergone years of training, and been tutored by just about every Konoha beast Ninja in the series, yet still shows very little results for all of this. Naruto could still be the underdog without making him look like a retard.

Thats the fucking truth right there

[Deonysios]

I concur. Where the hell is Neji? The only Jonin out of the bunch, at least to my understanding. Shika might be a Jonin after the Asuma battle.

[PsychoSquall]

I finally caught up with the manga.

Shika is beasting again, damn.

[Tone!]

EPIC FAIL

While it would have been dumb to have Kakuzu die instantly from that attack, at least have it do SOME damage..

[Niksurugi]

I was going to come here and complain about the chapter but I will wait until next week and see what happens.

[nameingway]

I think people are simply becoming tired of the fact that Naruto has essentially undergone years of training, and been tutored by just about every Konoha beast Ninja in the series, yet still shows very little results for all of this. Naruto could still be the underdog without making him look like a retard.

i couldn't have said it better myself, thank you.

[UnCauzi]

I came back to say that this manga is deader than Barbaro.

[BananaWeed]

Wow, a lot of Naruto-thread OGs coming back. lol

[catchafire]

UnCauzi and PS on the same page... classic.

[Rodimus]

Uh in other Naruto news--episode 219 was decent. Shits going down because gaara's beast has awaken!!

Plus there was a Jaraiya sighting--figured he had to leave the strip club to help Naruto jump off shippuuden..lol.

[jimmy1200]

ooooooo shit. chapter 240 was gay as fuck. oooooooooooh snap. if it werent for ninjas, i would sO not be reading this every week, and the fact that it was one of my first mangas to start reading seriously like 4 years ago. what have i gotten myself into. positive note. shika is the best. forget them other dumb fools. sasuke, kill naruto now.:wink:

how does a hardcore akatsuki fight, turn into a fight for naruto to try out his new half ass jutsu. wtf. that dude was reckin shop on everyone else, and now everyone is like, "go for it naruto. you can do it". FUCK OUTTA HERE

[catchafire]

lol, there is some truth to jimmy's statement. all of a sudded, it's turned into a showcase for naruto's half-assed growth. Also, the akatsuki plot is pointless. Nothing has changed since the beginning of the series. Itachi is still a beast, and everyone else is crap... They didn't have to invent other characters to show us this...

[noodle]

EPIC FAIL

While it would have been dumb to have Kakuzu die instantly from that attack, at least have it do SOME damage..
+100000

holy shit, it stops just before it makes contact...that shit was lame.

[Adam Warlock]

Spoiler pic http://www.enregistrersous.com/images/2/cf07a2073cb4a3f501aa9aa4dfd49367.html

[TheDarkPhoenix]

Spoiler pic http://www.enregistrersous.com/images/2/cf07a2073cb4a3f501aa9aa4dfd49367.html

Spirit bomb was here

[noodleman]

linky no worky.

[SaiST]

Spoiler pic mirror (http://shoryuken.voiea.net/uploads/naru441sp01.jpg).

Spoiler summary:

今週は表紙、ピンナップポスター、疾風伝カラー特集と
すごいね。おまけにサスケ(雷神)とナルト(風神)が
向かいあって巻頭カラーで登場。なかなかイカスよ!
*This week’s cover is a pin-up poster—basically an awesome Shippuden image. On top of that there’s a cover with Sasuke as the god of lightning and Naruto as the god of wind coming at each other.

簡易バレ
*Quick spoiler

カカシ「いけ　ナルト」
Kakashi: Go, Naruto.

ナルト「オッス」
Naruto: Ossu (Yes!)

角都　(遠距離タイプに変えた方がいいな・・)
Kakuzu (mental): I should probably switch to a long-range mode…

角都は口からと体中から8本の太く長い触手を
出し、蜘蛛のように変化する。
*Eight thick tendrils come out of Kakuzu’s mouth and the rest of his body, becoming more spider-like.

チョージ「うわっ」
Chouji: Ewww

イノ「・・・」
Ino: …

ヤマト「体型を変えただけじゃなくチャクラも練りこんでいる・・」
Yamato: He didn’t just change his form, he’s also charging up himself with chakra…

カカシ「ナルトの術に対応するためだな」
Kakashi: Likely to prepare himself against Naruto’s jutsu.

ナルト「影分身の術!」
Naruto: Kagebunshin no jutsu!

四体で風遁･螺旋丸を作り始める
*He and his three clones begin to make the Rasenshuriken.

角都　(きたな・・)
Kakuzu (mental): There it is…

ナルト「よし!できたァ!」
Naruto: Alright! It’s ready!

「続けぇ!」
Naruto: Keep going!

ナルト「!」
Naruto: !

チョージ「とんだ!」
Chouji: He jumped!

角都は空中に跳躍し、上からナルトオリジナルを狙う
*Kakuzu leaps into the air and aims for Naruto from above

角都(あの術さえつぶせば怖くない)
Kakuzu (mental): If I just crush that technique then there’s nothing to be afraid of.

イノ「やっぱり読まれている!」
Ino: Like I thought, he’s seen right through it.

しかし角都が攻撃したのは影分身。ナルトは後ろにいた
*However the one that Kakuzu attacked was a kagebunshin. Naruto was behind him.

角都「!」「こいつ・・陽動の中にオリジナルを!」
Kakuzu: ! He…he mixed himself up in the distraction!

ナルト「当たりィィ!!」
Naruto: Got ya!!

今度こそ、今度こそ螺旋丸が角都にクリーンヒット!!
*This time, this time the Rasengan makes a clean hit on Kakuzu!!

以下8ページにわたって新術の凄絶な威力の描写。そして
*It seems as though the true destructive power of the technique is shown over 8 pages. Then…

カカシ「攻撃回数がケタ外れだ。写輪眼でも見切れない」
Kakashi: The number of hits/attacks is way beyond me. I can’t see it even with the sharingan.

カカシ「なんて術だ・・・」
Kakashi: What a jutsu…

角都は術で出来た大きなクレーターに落ちていく。気絶している
*Kakuzu falls into the hole made by the jutsu. He’s passed out.

ナルト「へへ　よし・・　やった・・」
Naruto: He he…alright…I did it…

”暁”、陥落！
Sidetext: "Akatsuki" falls!

次号”暁”との戦いを終えた一同が帰還!センターカラー
Next chapter: The fight with "Akatsuki" ends. And everyone goes home! Center color next time~!
Nice~

That two-page color spread with Sasuke and Naruto sounds hot.

[TheDarkPhoenix]

Bah^ everyone goes home?!?! IM getting tired of this Akatsuki stuff its about to to end it all...

[SaiST]

Bah^ everyone goes home?!?!
... Huh? What's the problem now? What should they be doing after all of this?

[TheDarkPhoenix]

... Huh? What's the problem now? What should they be doing after all of this?

I dunno, i mean i just know where this is going to lead...It took forever for a decent group to leave the village to start the hunt. Going backs means alot more random talking, showing people heal up in the hospital, etc, etc....The only thing im looking forward to is them mentioning garaa and his status.

Basically I can see him taking this time to draw out things more and more..

Other than that I'm enjoying Naruto alot

[Hokuto Shingo]

So yeah...I'm on episode 150 now. I'm almost caught up. But this whole bug-hunt thing really sucks.

[ben]

EIGHT pages of rasenkienzan? that's a bit excessive. or kishimoto being lazy and not actually using his pages. I'm sticking with lazy.

[ViciousSLASH]

lol, Naruto just blows him up.

That is cool, funny, and disappointing all at the same time.

1. Naruto actually did something right, blowing his ass up wind style COOL

2. The ending to the fight seems like it was done in the most lazy horribly written way possible. Yeah so Kazuku jumps RIGHT!, YEAH, and he thinks he has Naruto, but you know what? HE DOESN'T! Naruto tricks him AGAIN!, then he blows him up! <---Kishi's thought process...FUNNY

3. Another extra cool character gets a bitch death. DISAPPOINTING

Naruto is turning into a guilty pleasure, I am enjoying it, but I know I shouldn't be.

[Jude]

Naruto is turning into a guilty pleasure, I am enjoying it, but I know I shouldn't be.

Quoted For Truth.

I feel the same way.

I hope it doesn't drag on for ever before we some action again.

[Stabby]

8 pages? That means it'll be a whole episode in the series! They figured a way around filler!

[BananaWeed]

I hope it's 8 pages of him charging up, a la DBZ.

[Niksurugi]

And why wasn't this done last week...

[TheRock]

Wind chakra so fast, the sharingan can't even see it? Sooooooooo that's how Naruto is going to beat sasuke!

[catchafire]

And why wasn't this done last week...

QFT. Last week's chapter was a complete waste when considering this one. Kakuzu as an elite warrior is a complete joke. So far, Naruto has taken out two Akatsuki members and yet he can't compare to Sasuke? Remember, they are still kids learning. Naruto should be able to beast on fools by now, and how come we haven't seen any cool summons in part 2 of the series? I want to see Gama Bunta. Remember him?

Blah...

[Green]

Wind chakra so fast, the sharingan can't even see it?
Sounds like Kishimoto's under the influence.

[SaiST]

I hope it's 8 pages of him charging up, a la DBZ.
More like 8 pages of the Rasenshuriken blowing up in Kakuzu's face.

And this is just showing off the impact of the Rasenshuriken, there's no dialouge or anything, so this won't be takin' up an entire episode--doubt it'll take up even 5 minutes. :P

Kakuzu as an elite warrior is a complete joke.
Are you forgetting just how hard he pushed Kakashi a few chapters ago? From what I could tell from the spoiler summary, he didn't do anything stupid.

So far, Naruto has taken out two Akatsuki members...
... ?
Kakuzu
30%, severely limited Itachi clone(thanks to Kakashi's assistance)?

...and yet he can't compare to Sasuke?
Couldn't. It's kind of a different story now.

And Sasuke's pretty damn strong at this point.

[BananaWeed]

So, when Naruto goes up against Sasuke, he's gonna use the rasenshuriken, then sasuke's gonna do his own uber-jutsu, then Naruto's gonna be all like "omgwtf" and then the Ninetails chakra will start flowing, then he's gonna do a red-rasenshuriken.


Or something.

[Azrael]

More like 8 pages of the Rasenshuriken blowing up in Kakuzu's face.

And this is just showing off the impact of the Rasenshuriken, there's no dialouge or anything, so this won't be takin' up an entire episode--doubt it'll take up even 5 minutes. :P
You...did watch DBZ, didn't you?

Upon impact, they'll cut away to Jiraiya, who can sense that Naruto has finally nailed the attack. Then they'll cut to Tsunade, who also senses Naruto has reached his true potential. They they'll cut to Konohamaru, who senses something but isn't old enough to know what yet.

Then you have to have the smoke clear. That's a whole 5 minutes right there. Then, they'll show us how radically the landscape changed. Another 5 minutes easy.

Then, how many people are on the battlefield? We'll need to have prolonged close-ups of the shocked faces of Kakashi, Yamato, Sakura, Chouji, Ino, and Shikamaru.

Cut back to Naruto, who (slowly!) realizes he has successfully hit the move.

Cut back to everyone watching, and let them have internal monologues on how much Naruto has changed since he was the bratty troublemaker back in the academy. Since this is Naruto, there'll probably be plently of flashbacks.

Hell, this is already a four-part miniseries.

At any rate, I agree about the Akatsuki getting punked far too easily for all the buildup. It's kind of anti-climatic.

[The Damned]

At any rate, I agree about the Akatsuki getting punked far too easily for all the buildup. It's kind of anti-climatic.

...You...did watch DBZ, didn't you?

Heh.

but, seriously, even just form the synopsis of things and all the misc. information I've gotten outside of the dub, I can finally see where the full extent of VS's complaints from.

For instance, how the fuck does Kakuzu, who seems quite interesting even from just learning about him synopsis-wise, become retarded enough to think that "jump at him = 'long-range mode'"? The fuck? Is he Ninja sub-classing as a Lancer? Did he think he was going to bounce back after his obviously uncounterable Jump to the safety of the back row? Why didn't he just whore mask assist?

For that matter, I've wondered something: Even though we have the valid pretext that back chakra being a Jinchuuriki literally gives Naruto inhuman amounts of chakra, why haven't far more ninja-whored Kagebushin? Even if they can't make them flesh and blood (which doesn't seem to be necessary for effectiveness, given that Kagebushin oil-like genjutsu that those ninja with the gas masks used in the Forest of Death), considering that Naruto seems get outclassed in taijutsu rather easily (at least in part one), you think his opponents would whore it more.

It would also be somewhat interesting for the paranoid factor of being a ninja.

Then again, this a world where it seems like only the evil ninja strike from the darkness and are the only ninja to ever kill non-ninja. Meh.


P.S. I don't really blame Kishimoto for having inability to end combat effectively, at least not that much.

(1-on-1) Combat-fighting is the probably least explored form of writing since it only really takes place in sci-fi fantasy due to normal human fighting generally being boring as shit, being really sloppy, taking place in a highly restricted setting like a boxing match, or some combination of the above.

Still, one would think that he would have learned something to fights end more effectively if he wasn't working on Naruto not being an idiot (and, hence, having to rely on his supposedly beastly, "genius" opponents making uncharacteristically assinine mistakes...when other valid characters--*cough*Chouji*cough*--are standing right there).

Meh.

*goes back to lurking*


P.P.S. (from the shadows) Wait. I just thought about it: If ninjas whore substition so much, then lack of Kagebushin makes even less sense, unless chakra gets even split up with "shadow" clones.

*smoke bomb*

[gbursine]

is it this week, or next that the new naruto[ep.] comes out?

[4neqs]

Next week. www.leafninja.com

[SaiST]

Chapter 341 RAW (http://shoryuken.voiea.net/uploads/naruto_ch341.zip)

High quality too. :D

You...did watch DBZ, didn't you?
>_< God damn.

[BananaWeed]

These akatsuki guys are not top tier :( Maybe Kishi doesn't wanna make them uber so that he can make even stronger Ninjas in the next arc. :|

[noodleman]

haha, the translation guys don't have much work to do for this chapter :P

[4neqs]

Then, how many people are on the battlefield? We'll need to have prolonged close-ups of the shocked faces of Kakashi, Yamato, Sakura, Chouji, Ino, and Shikamaru.

-snip-


http://img73.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0261vs1.jpg
Holy shit lol.


The other stuff is on point too.

---

I don't think Akatsuki jobbing is necessarily a bad thing at this point; at least it hasn't painfully dragged on like the Sasori fight. It might also be a device to hype the leader/Itachi/Kisame a little more.

[Starhammer]

Damn. Just fucking damn. Why does he continue to sacrifice good characters to bad situations? How'd you like to go to hell and tell the devil that you got zapped by a kid with a ball of energy? after all the asses you've kicked throughout your ninja career, you get offed by a kid who can't even make jounin, much less the likes of the ANBU members you've offed like nothing? Sasaori certianly weeps from beyond the grave.

If more of the Konoha crew doesn't get the axe and soon, I'll be hurting inside.

-Starhammer-

[L.one H.iryu S.aga]

Wind chakra so fast, the sharingan can't even see it? Sooooooooo that's how Naruto is going to beat sasuke!

...

Wack.

I would consider quitting Naruto it wasn't for the fact that I occasionally follow it.

[TheRock]

It's amazing how some of you want to kill established characters left and right. Killing characters doesn't necessarily create a good story.

Are you forgetting Kishimoto JUST killed Asuma? Heck when Asuma was killed, some of you guys complained about that too. For shame.

I think the "hate" that is here, is because some of you are following the manga way too closely, chapter by new chapter without giving time for the story and arc to flesh out. You guys need to take a step back from scrutinizing each new chapter, give the manga some room, and let the story unfold. Rome wasn't built in a day.

[Starhammer]

It's amazing how some of you want to kill established characters left and right. Killing characters doesn't necessarily create a good story.

Are you forgetting Kishimoto JUST killed Asuma? Heck when Asuma was killed, some of you guys complained about that too. For shame.

I think the "hate" that is present is because you are following the manga way too closely, chapter by new chapter without giving time for the story and arc to flesh out. You guys need to take a step back from scrutinizing each new chapter, give the manga some room, and let the story unfold.

yeah, some did complain. Me? I think it was a pretty good choice. decently well known, very much under used, has already been near-death/ beat to hell several times during the series and the fillers, (mostly fillers ) and would give a boost to not only shikamaru, but choji and ino as well. it might be too soon for someone else to bite the dust, but I wouldn't be upset to find Sakura's head in the belly of a fish in the next chapter.

-Starhammer-

[Bowza]

I think naruto did kinda take out Kakuzu without much effort, I mean he didn't even get hurt in the fight. I thought it'd be more creative like the way Naruto got the rasengan off on Kabuto.

[Niksurugi]

My complaints...well I guess I'm somewhat disappointed in the last 2 chapters. Only because we were promised a "new" naruto and yet we get more of the same old thing. First he humiliates himself...then he later gets his first victory in who knows how many battles/years...(Since Gaara I believe) using the same techniques/strategies... Is it so wrong for him to come back after three years of training somewhat of a beast who can actually do stuff? Summon a frog or two, be an overall smarter shinobi. No, he needs additional special kage-bunshin training... (which is kinda lame...I mean as much as he uses it there is nothing he shouldn't know about it) but ignoring that...even after it all...we don't really get to see how he's improved as a whole and he STILL screws up the jutsu. It would of been better to me if Naruto hadn't screwed up and maybe a chapter of him fighting using various random wind techniques.

As a whole I enjoyed the arc, mostly because of Shikamaru character development. Hidan and Kakuzu were cool as well.

[The Damned]

but choji and ino as well.

-Starhammer-

It may still be too soon after Asuma's death, but I have to wonder about where the hell that went. Given that there have apparently been so little seen of the non-Naruto teams, you would think that we would at least see Choji and Ino react a bit more to Hidan.

Did they even say anything (emotional) about Asuma's death to him? Or Shikamaru just beast before it could be argued that they were going to? ( :rolleyes: )

As for the whole "nobody dies" thing, I'm surprisingly not a death-monger when it comes to most fiction, except maybe many American comics (and even then, that's only hoping that people stay dead).

I believe it was brought up by VS that we've seen so few people die despite it being a war outside of generics and people that nobody in the main cast gave a damn about. While the amount of generics being killed makes sense, I have to say that quite a lot more people are safe when you think about, which is somewhat surprising for a career ninja.

Naruto is safe because he's the main character and main characters (unfortunately) rarely die. That's not really a focus of complaining, though--Naruto still being utterly incompetent even inside of a battle and basically relying on clones to survive, however....

Sasuke and Orochimaru are pretty safe as well, especially since they both seem as popular if not more so than Naruto.

Kakashi is safe, "if only" becasue Itachi seems to need him--he is often alluded to as the third person that Itachi was apparently talking about. He is also quite popular.

Itachi and, by extension, Kisame are pretty safe since Itachi is quite popular and basically enables Sasuke to have what little personality he has.

After that, main character-wise, who's left that we care about that actually been fleshed out?

Neji? I like him a lot, but even I think he should have died from being arrowed.

Shikamaru? I would hate to see him get killed off now since he's actually not being lazy.

Choji? Should have died and doesn't seemed to have changed at all from Asuma's death, which is rather surprising.

Hinata and Kiba? Has that team even done anything since the timeskip?

Konohamaru? ...Do we really give a fuck about him? He's rather safe anyway since he's Sarutobi's grandfather--wait, was Asuma his father?--and killing him seems to negate any purpose that it could be argued that he has.

After that, we only have left the Sand Siblings (who might get offed, Gaara's looking rather iffy, but only Naruto and Gaara's siblings seem to care about him and Lee is only sort of a rival), Might Gai and Lee (who I can see getting killed, but either by something stupidly sacrifical or just straight out "jobbing" because hard work seems to rarely get you anywhere in Kishimoto's world. See: Gaara, Neji, Naruto himself [paradoxically for both that hard work gets you virtually nowhere--all that training he did with Jiraiya, who now seems like an idiot, and Kakashi and Yamato--and that a monsterous inborn ability, whether it be Jinchuuriki or blood-line limits, often saves your ass against people that should be able to kill five times before you hit the ground], etc.), the other two sannin (Tsunade's unlikely, and if she buys it, the only two female worth a damn are Kurenai and...Anko? Fuck Sakura, despite her actually improving unlike Naruto), and...all the other characters don't really matter.

Hell, many of the ones I listed are probably disposable if only because they already likely should have died (and I'm saying this only from situations they've been in, not for hate for the characters that make me want to kill them in masturbatory fanfic fantasies) or Kishimoto has only fleshed them out a little and probably never will.

That said, if the Death Note thing does catch on for Naruto's remaining fans, then I'm sure that Tenten will fucking bite it. Useless whore.

(Oh, and for all that said, I do think that more people should have died by now, but killing them now probably won't do much, if anything, for the series. This can be evidenced by the ends of the wavering-uber Akatsuki, which have seemed to cause enough disgust among many of the former fanbase for Naruto be [slightly] less popular--I'm sure the endless filler took care of many Japanese on the other side of the Atlantic--for that to only result in bland plot progression.

Also, if it also wasn't clear, I have to say I disagree with you, The Rock, in that I think that death is actually quite necessary in a "coming of age" story. However, I can see why you believe the opposite is true.)

*smoke bomb*


EDIT full of hot air: This post has been made 34% less retarded. Enjoy.

[ReggieHadoken]

I want to see more Naruto/Hinata moments. Sure, there weren't many when they were 12-13, but I thought they were cute and I really enjoyed them. Speaking of Hinata, good grief, the puberty faries were working overtime on her! Sakura on the other hand got serverly screwed. Why on Earth would Naruto still be interested in Sakura, when there's Hinata, who is not only WAY better looking, but and head over heels in love with him? I'm really hoping Kishi doesn't take the typical manga route and have Naruto end up with the chick that at first couldn't stand him.

[Starhammer]

*Ka-Snip!!!!!!*



one day, when I am restored to premium glory, the rep bombs will bless you.




(Oh, and for all that said, I do think that more people should have died by now, but killing them now probably won't do much, if anything, for the series unless it's the wavering-uber Akatsuki and their ends have seemed cause enough disgust for that to only result in bland plot progression.


*smoke bomb*

yeah, that's true. I should've said that at first, but wasn't even really thinking about it. unfortunately, I don't have a script in my mind that would help this story along in a way that would excite as much as those early chapters up to the zab/haku saga did. I wish I did because I hate to complain and not have an answer of my own to give. it'll give me something to think on for the time being.

-Starhammer-

[The Damned]

I want to see more Naruto/Hinata moments. Sure, there weren't many when they were 12-13, but I thought they were cute and I really enjoyed them. Speaking of Hinata, good grief, the puberty faries were working overtime on her! Sakura on the other hand got serverly screwed. Why on Earth would Naruto still be interested in Sakura, when there's Hinata, who is not only WAY better looking, but and head over heels in love with him? I'm really hoping Kishi doesn't take the typical manga route and have Naruto end up with the chick that at first couldn't stand him.

Same here, but I'm quite a lot less hopeful than you that Kishimoto won't take that route. In fact, even if he took that route, he still fuck it up by only bringing post-skiptime back as the new new--two news because of Ino's apparently useless ass--Sakura who hopelessly fawns over someone that barely acknowledges she exists, even while in combat.

It would be damned shame, since I like the Hyuugas, even despite their eyes having creeped the hell out of me until the Chuunin Exam Arc.

I wouldn't put it past him, though. Not because Kishimoto is the worst author ever, but I think--and I feel that I can say this a bit more "objectively" than more hardcore fans--Kishimoto has been slipping when it comes to character development, at least for minor characters--it could be argued that the Akatsuki are all minor characters, at least when it comes to Sasori and Hidan and Kakuzu.

Meh.

She should get with Kiba. At least he's competent in battle and can protect in instead of relying upon Demonic Clone War no Jutsu--maybe Naruto has Stormtrooper Syndrome...it would explain so much.

one day, when I am restored to premium glory, the rep bombs will bless you.

Um...thanks?

yeah, that's true. I should've said that at first, but wasn't even really thinking about it. unfortunately, I don't have a script in my mind that would help this story along in a way that would excite as much as those early chapters up to the zab/haku saga did. I wish I did because I hate to complain and not have an answer of my own to give. it'll give me something to think on for the time being.

-Starhammer-

Ah, don't feel so bad. Even though I know what you're saying, the only thing that "alternate universes" are good is fanfiction. I could come with my own solutions as well, but there's hardly a point to it unless someone asks for it.

(It would hurt that I'm rather like S.a.g.a. and mostly keeping up through spoilers, Wikipedia, and, actual episode-wise, the CN dub.)

*smoke bomb*



*weezing can be heard*

[Rodimus]

Manga chapter was pretty solid to me. Im starting to finally see growth. I want to see naruto beast on people but i'll take what i can get. He has a new method w/the kage bunshins.

I see he's using them for some on the job training..lol. Kakazu said he'd be peaced out if the Rasen Shuriken hit him. and he got peaced out!!!

Looks good to me. Where do they go now?? back home to heal up a lil??

Im surprised with akatsuki members dropping like flies A.L. doesn't make a quick appearance to fold somebody up then bounce.

Oh well, on another note ep 220 aired and the last filler arc was very good.

On to Shippuuden for next week!!

[Dem-Dem]

Oh well, on another note ep 220 aired and the last filler arc was very good.

When did it Air. where did you see it. I need to know what happend man!!!! Damn it why aren't you saying anything. Oh yeah I have to press send>>>>> :rofl:

[Power Man Fox]

Youtube has it (not the greatest quality)
No subtitles yet.

[Azrael]

...You...did watch DBZ, didn't you?

Heh.
I don't think any DBZ characters/villains jobbed out. Quite the opposite - Toriyama made them too powerful, to the point where anyone who wasn't a Super Saiyan just became utterly useless.

As I sit here and rationalize it, the Akatsuki losses do kind of make sense, but they do still feel underwhelmed.　

So we've got hokage, jounin, chuunin, genin, and then sannin. In the Sandaime vs Orochimaru fight, they were throwing mountains and rivers and tempests and shit at each other. Even the ANBU were like "WHAT THE FUCK?!?!" Which lead me at least to believe that hokage was some serious shit. We can group the sannin in the same sort of tier as hokage, given what we know and what we've seen.

Next would be the jounin. Kakashi, Gai, Azuma, whoever have been impressive, but certainly not hokage/sannin so. Then you have the chuunin, who are good but certainly not on the level of jounin. So I've always felt that there was a gap between hokage/sannin and jounin, then jounin and chuunin.

Now, the genin. They certainly weren't jounin level when the series started - but given that the Konoha group are "talented" we could probably say they're not that far from chuunin.

Ok, now the Akatsuki. Orochimaru bows down to Itachi, and even Jiraiya was a bit disturbed by him. Kakashi got flat out destroyed. This alone would put Akatsuki no lower than the hokage/sannin tier, if not higher. Post-timeskip, we can jump the genins to chuunin, as that gap was never that big, and for the really talented guys even give them jounin. Even with the title, I wouldn't feel that any of the Konoha Genin -> Jounin are on the same level as the OG Jounin.

At any rate, defeating an Akatsuki would be even/equivalent to beating a hokage, and I just don't feel like the characters who have done so so far are EVEN CLOSE to the level of Sandaime or the Sannin, let alone better than. I guess if you factor in the team effort - 2, 3, 4+ jounins against 1 Akatsuki, it becomes plausible, but ultimately somewhat of a letdown considering the Akatsuki hype. I would at least figure that the Akatsuki would be able to take out a lot of peeps before going down themselves, but all they've managed so far is an old woman and Asuma. And it's like, if you could just gang up on them, why were the Akatsuki even feared at all?

[Stabby]

Raditz and Nappa were hella jobbed. I really wish Nappa was still around.

Anyway, of the shown Akatsuki the only one I really think got taken down properly was Hidan. It makes sense-- you aren't supposed to use your technique unless you are going to kill the other person.

Kazuku was robbed. Sai, Kakashi, Sakura/Ino (TWO HEALERS!), Chouji, other guy AND Naruto were all there. No matter how torn up they could have got, they had two fucking healing characters on backup. They could have just made Naruto take the blows until Kazuku got tired, then stabbed him or something.

[BananaWeed]

Raditz and Nappa were hella jobbed. I really wish Nappa was still around.

Anyway, of the shown Akatsuki the only one I really think got taken down properly was Hidan. It makes sense-- you aren't supposed to use your technique unless you are going to kill the other person.

Kazuku was robbed. Sai, Kakashi, Sakura/Ino (TWO HEALERS!), Chouji, other guy AND Naruto were all there. No matter how torn up they could have got, they had two fucking healing characters on backup. They could have just made Naruto take the blows until Kazuku got tired, then stabbed him or something.

Unless of course Kakuzu killed killed Ino/Sakura first. But of course, Sakura won't be written off...yet?

[TheDarkPhoenix]

I don't think any DBZ characters/villains jobbed out. Quite the opposite - Toriyama made them too powerful, to the point where anyone who wasn't a Super Saiyan just became utterly useless.

As I sit here and rationalize it, the Akatsuki losses do kind of make sense, but they do still feel underwhelmed.　

So we've got hokage, jounin, chuunin, genin, and then sannin. In the Sandaime vs Orochimaru fight, they were throwing mountains and rivers and tempests and shit at each other. Even the ANBU were like "WHAT THE FUCK?!?!" Which lead me at least to believe that hokage was some serious shit. We can group the sannin in the same sort of tier as hokage, given what we know and what we've seen.



I totally agree, I still have that fight save on my computer, all the hokage/sannin battle have be great. That leads me to believe that the only Akatsuki on those levels so far are itachi, kisame, and former member orchi. 30% clone Kisame turned the desert into the sea, and worked gai's team. Same with itachi.

Even the new found "leader" of the sand Garaa beasted when he fought. All these battle's have been top tier.


As far as the rest of Akatsuki....man garabage. I mean they have these crazy powers but they suck with them. I mean the sasori fight drug on but imo that was good, it showed that these battle weren't gonna be easy.

With that said we've lost 3 members of a Akatsuki and im guessing where getting close to the more powerful ones now. (Altho imo i think sasori was way more powerful but they kinda punked him out by making him the 1st battle)

Hidan and Kakuzu seem at this point to be just comic relief/filler bad guys..... These two dudes are a joke and have left a bad taste in my mouth for the rest of Akatsuki.

But It would be unrealistic of me to expect for the team to face off verse the some of the most powerful nin's 1st. And the the ones with the scrubby of gimicks later.


Anyway im looking forward to seeing everyone else fight because i have a feeling the batlles will be much better from here on out.


And as far as people saying how could these to people get beast so easily, well imo, #1 they both had like extra lives and unlimted continues and stuff. So im sure they where the most sloppy fighters of all the members.

#2 one had to fight a shiki....lol GG

[Hunter D]

IMO someone that matters has to die. Asuma's death had no impact to me because he was a bit character. Either Naruto or Sasuke has to kick the bucket in the upcomming battle they will have.

A crazy plot twist could involve the Akatsuki . Akatsuki's leader could end up being the fourth and the Akatsuki could be his way of training naruto. The real threat could turn out to be the original Sharingan user. Could work out nicely if done the right way.

[The Damned]

I don't think any DBZ characters/villains jobbed out. Quite the opposite - Toriyama made them too powerful, to the point where anyone who wasn't a Super Saiyan just became utterly useless.

Isn't that part of the sentence kind of contradictory to your first statement? Or are we only applying "jobbed" to people that supposed to be "uber" but get beat by less powerful people?

Because I certainly count a once respectable character with a decent amount of aiblity becoming suddenly worthless, i.e. everyone that isn't Goku, "getting jobbed" if there isn't a damned good reason for it. (For the record, genetics can be a good reasons, but often isn't enough for most people. Genetics in therms of Saiyan descent was also one of the many things--perhaps the main thing--that I feel doomed the Dragonball series, but that's an entire other rant that I've been meaning to make a thread about for a year or two.)

Anyway, there are a lot of people that “jobbed” in my definition if I look at just Dragonball Z.

On the hero side, once again you have pretty much everyone that isn’t Goku. The only person that ever gets a time to legitimately shine other than him was Gohan, who should have succeeded him after the Cell Saga but then got robbed/jobbed to Majin Buu as Mystic Gohan.

Other than, who really stood out after the team effort to defeat Vegeta?

Piccolo? He always need to merge with someone to do anything after even Raditz, and that was usually quickly overwhelmed.

Trunks? He’s a saiyan…and he still hardly got to do anything.

Speaking ofTrunks, Trunks is probably the worst case of jobbing ever: Frieza jobbed to him.

Fucking final form Frieza no less.

Fucking final form Frieza fully healed right after the Namek-Saiyan Saga.

Fucking final form fully-healed Frieza jobbed to normal Trunks, who also killed Frieza’s father like they both nothing.

Take a moment to let that sink in if I haven’t repeated it enough times.

If that’s not jobbing, then I really don’t know what is. (Unless it was something extremely egregious, like the dead Cell and Frieza losing to Kid Goku’s normal form in DBGT, but Toriyama had nothing to do with that repulsive mess so it can be ignored in this argument.

But, yeah, a lot of the major villains job in DBZ, if only because they’re never actually that major (for the most part), like that king of devil that could turn stuff to stone getting OHKO by Fat Buu, since there’s always OMG A MORE POWERFUL VILLIAN THAT’S OVER 9000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*scouter explodes*

As I sit here and rationalize it, the Akatsuki losses do kind of make sense, but they do still feel underwhelmed.

Outside of Hidan and maybe Sasori, how do they make sense?

So we've got hokage, jounin, chuunin, genin, and then sannin. In the Sandaime vs Orochimaru fight, they were throwing mountains and rivers and tempests and shit at each other. Even the ANBU were like "WHAT THE FUCK?!?!"

*snip until chuunin*

This is basic stuff. So of course I agree with it.

Ok, now the Akatsuki. Orochimaru bows down to Itachi, and even Jiraiya was a bit disturbed by him. Kakashi got flat out destroyed. This alone would put Akatsuki no lower than the hokage/sannin tier, if not higher. Post-timeskip, we can jump the genins to chuunin, as that gap was never that big, and for the really talented guys even give them jounin. Even with the title, I wouldn't feel that any of the Konoha Genin -> Jounin are on the same level as the OG Jounin.

Agreed…for the most part.

As stated by The Dark Phoenix, there is somewhat faulty though natural assumption that just because quite a few of the known Akatsuki—about 3 out of the 10, though I disagree about the third as you shall see later—are Hokage-level or greater, that one automatically assumes the whole damned group is uber.

This is not the case, at least exampled by Hidan and Tobi, the latter being a former underling. Sure, they’re both the “new guys”, but it would little sense that if the Akatsuki were really made of entirely Hokage-level people that it would curb its elitism to allow the two in—unless Kakuzu’s temper is just that unmanageable, in which case he should be killed by one of the more powerful members anyway.

At any rate, defeating an Akatsuki would be even/equivalent to beating a hokage, and I just don't feel like the characters who have done so so far are EVEN CLOSE to the level of Sandaime or the Sannin, let alone better than. I guess if you factor in the team effort - 2, 3, 4+ jounins against 1 Akatsuki, it becomes plausible, but ultimately somewhat of a letdown considering the Akatsuki hype. I would at least figure that the Akatsuki would be able to take out a lot of peeps before going down themselves, but all they've managed so far is an old woman and Asuma. And it's like, if you could just gang up on them, why were the Akatsuki even feared at all?

Outside of the last question, which can possibly be simply put as most ninja don’t wish to die—this is assuming the Akatsuki are relatively well-known, though they seem to be quite the cabal despite the power of some of their members—and afraid of in-story Akatsuki hype, this is pretty much a restatement of the jobbing issue.

It really makes little sense that there isn’t a team effort or that they should at least just stand around while Naruto, who has “changed”, uses a villain that was just almost killing them a moment ago as “training”. It’s really has to do more with the inconsistent nonsense individual-wise than the ill-conceived (though once again understandable) that all of the Akatsuki are uber level ninja.

That said, Kakuzu isn’t a slouch and is definitely stronger than Naruto, which who should have been able to even knock him out with an unfinished technique and acted completely contrary to what he just stated that he was going to do. (I still don’t see how a jump equal a long range attack when you’ve got tentacles and detachable limbs andmore assists in than MvC2.)

It’s not like a higher level opponent can’t be beaten, but it shouldn’t be by brute strength in most cases since that would defeat the whole fucking though they’re supposed to be “stronger”.

Raditz and Nappa were hella jobbed. I really wish Nappa was still around.

Me too. A super Saiyan with no hair to wig out would be make them look more respectable.

Unless went to all his other hairs.

Goku: *thinking* I wonder why his crotch got so big all of a sudden.

Anyway, of the shown Akatsuki the only one I really think got taken down properly was Hidan. It makes sense-- you aren't supposed to use your technique unless you are going to kill the other person.

Agreed.

That’s one thing that I’ve always found annoyingly inconsistent from the get-go.

When Kakashi first trains Team Seven, he warns them to not show people their ninjutsu unless it’s going to be lethal. While we all know that Naruto goes against this because he’s a fucking moron with his zerg rushes and Rasengan absue, …what the hell is most everyone else’s excuse.

I mean, really, at this point, the only “real” ninja in this series to me is Kabuto because he’s actually sneaky isn’t running around with bright pink hair and a fucking orange jumpsuit.

Kazuku was robbed. Sai, Kakashi, Sakura/Ino (TWO HEALERS!), Chouji, other guy AND Naruto were all there. No matter how torn up they could have got, they had two fucking healing characters on backup. They could have just made Naruto take the blows until Kazuku got tired, then stabbed him or something.

Seriously.

Why are Ino and Chouji even there again?

I mean, though Hidan was taken care of by Shikamaru, I would assume that Ino could have been useful in getting using Hidan as tool against Kakuzu since if the Shadow Possession Jutsu works on Hidan, than Ino, assuming she’s gotten stronger by now…which doesn’t seem to be the case, should be able to use mental confusion techniques like her father uses. Considering that Kakuzu was paired with Hidan because it was impossible for the former to kill the latter, that could have led to more plausible injuring of Kakuzu.

As for Chouji, he actually killed someone with his bares hands, but yet seems to do nothing here, despite having bulked back up to use his family’s techniques at something close to full effectiveness.

Even if they’re not powerful enough to have taken on Kakuzu himself, which they shouldn’t be, would it be too much to ask for them to be able to take on—note that I don’t say “beat”—one of Kakuzu’s masks instead of having Kakazh save their asses?

They’re just liabilities otherwise.

I totally agree, I still have that fight save on my computer, all the hokage/sannin battle have be great. That leads me to believe that the only Akatsuki on those levels so far are itachi, kisame, and former member orchi. 30% clone Kisame turned the desert into the sea, and worked gai's team. Same with itachi.

Even the new found "leader" of the sand Garaa beasted when he fought. All these battle's have been top tier.

Since you mentioned Gaara, I’m surprised that you didn’t meant Dedaira being Hokage-level because I think he is.

Now I know that power-level discussions are usually a bad thing—I read through most of the thread, and that whole “Itachi is or is not uber” discussion could have been handled…better—and all, but I have to ask this: Can’t Dedaira fucking level a whole forest supposedly?

If that’s not Hokage level, then I don’t know what is.

As far as the rest of Akatsuki....man garabage. I mean they have these crazy powers but they suck with them. I mean the sasori fight drug on but imo that was good, it showed that these battle weren't gonna be easy.

I wouldn’t say that they suck with them. It’s just that the “good guys” are “supposed” to win and the “bad guys” are supposed to lose.

And often, unfortunately, it’s not done in a manner that is believable.

With that said we've lost 3 members of a Akatsuki and im guessing where getting close to the more powerful ones now. (Altho imo i think sasori was way more powerful but they kinda punked him out by making him the 1st battle)

3? Well, Sasori’s dead, but Hidan is still technically alive and I thought that Kakuzu was just KO’d.

Sure, they’re going to die and probably get jobbed again, at least in Kakuzu’s case, but that doesn’t mean that they (read: Kakuzu) can’t do something to redeem himself just a bit. (*cough*Kill Ino*cough*)

Hidan and Kakuzu seem at this point to be just comic relief/filler bad guys..... These two dudes are a joke and have left a bad taste in my mouth for the rest of Akatsuki.[/

But It would be unrealistic of me to expect for the team to face off verse the some of the most powerful nin's 1st. And the the ones with the scrubby of gimicks later.

Agreed.

Anyway im looking forward to seeing everyone else fight because i have a feeling the batlles will be much better from here on out.

Uh…doesn’t that contradict your first pargraph in the above quoted fraction?

Not that I particularly care, but it would just seems interesting for you to say that right after saying that you have “a bad taste” in your mouth.

And as far as people saying how could these to people get beast so easily, well imo, #1 they both had like extra lives and unlimted continues and stuff. So im sure they where the most sloppy fighters of all the members.

It’s quite probable, actually.

#2 one had to fight a shiki....lol GG

Yeah.

Rest in pieces, Hidan.

*clasps hands in prayer to Jashin*

IMO someone that matters has to die. Asuma's death had no impact to me because he was a bit character. Either Naruto or Sasuke has to kick the bucket in the upcomming battle they will have.

True, but that probably won’t happen. The given that huge list I stated earlier, the only people of relative importance I can see biting it anytime soon that aren’t post-timeskip are Might Gai, maybe Gaara, maybe Tsunade or Jairaya (only because he’s been made to look like an idiot), and possibly yet not likely Sakura.

A crazy plot twist could involve the Akatsuki . Akatsuki's leader could end up being the fourth and the Akatsuki could be his way of training naruto. The real threat could turn out to be the original Sharingan user. Could work out nicely if done the right way.

The Fourth turning out to be the leader of the Akatsuki wouldn’t be “a crazy plot twist”. Even though I’m a really causal fan, I’m pretty sure that almost everyone has thought about that as one time or another. So, it wouldn’t work in that M. Night Shaymalan “What a twist!” way.

The Akatsuki as Naruto’s puppet trainers doesn’t to make sense either, since Naruto receives most of his training indirectly from Orochimaru’s actions, such as the full-body Shadow Clones from the stolen scroll and attempting to keep up with that traitorous bastard Sasuke. (Of course, this is going off the assumption that Mizuki was canonically working for Orochimaru.) That and they kill a shit lot of “innocent” people. It seems more likely that eternal world order is their global, despite how cliché much of that plot is—it there ever an interesting way to want to rule the world?

And the original Sharingan user is just out there, like your avatar.


*spontaneously combusts because this week has been that shitty*

[EM Disruptor]

fillers ended!!:party: :party: :party:

[catchafire]

Asuma, who is that guy? Please, the Hokage dying was significant. Asuma is straight up garbage. Characters that should have died are: Chouji, Neji, ... , etc. Oh yeah, the fillers are over?!?!

[noodleman]

fillers ended!!:party: :party: :party:
praise allah!

[L.one H.iryu S.aga]

Asuma, who is that guy? Please, the Hokage dying was significant. Asuma is straight up garbage.

Truth.

The only reason I gave half of a damn about Asuma's death was because of the guaranteed character development combo platter Shikamaru devoured without hesistation.

SHIIIIIIIIIIKKKKKKKAAAAAAA FOOOOOORRRRCCCCEEEE!

[UnCauzi]

Remember folks terrain devastation means nothing in DBZ err Naruto. Hell Temari can level a forest. Does that make her Hokage level?

[noodleman]

other examples include but not limited to:

Gaara's desert wave jutsu
Kinimaru's bone forest jutsu
Shukaku vs Giant Frog
the Earth sound nin picking up a huge chunk of the forest

[The Damned]

Remember folks terrain devastation means nothing in DBZ err Naruto. Hell Temari can level a forest. Does that make her Hokage level?

True. But one could argue that Temari's gets a boost out of her fan that makes her attack--I'm guessing you're referring to the Summoning that took out Tayuya or whatever the Sound girl's name was--more powerful than it normally should be.

I guess you could make the same arguement with Deidara's clay being a tool, though....

This is why I sort of hate power-rankings, since strict or nebulous, in-story ones are usually trouble, especially if you deviate from them alone the lines of brute strength and not something else; the fans debate regardless.

However, I have to ask what was in response to? My ranking of Deidara because he can level a forest? I'll concide my ignorance on what Hokage level truly means, but I don't think there's a clear definition anyway....

[T-Kimura]

woohoo.. gonna start posting in this thread soon again. naruto shippuden only 4 days away

[catchafire]

Remember folks terrain devastation means nothing in DBZ err Naruto. Hell Temari can level a forest. Does that make her Hokage level?

QFT.

There's no barometer of strength in this series. The only true power is the eye called Sharingan.

POWER IN D EYE!!!

[The Epidemic]

QFT.

There's no barometer of strength in this series. The only true power is the eye called Sharingan.

POWER IN D EYE!!!

i really wish sasuke and neji would of fought early on in the series, cause im pretty sure neji isnt touching sasuke anymore....Byakugan vs. Sharingan would have been a good fight...

[Jizzz_frame]

who is stronger sasuke or naruto?

on another forum people are saying naruto is currently stronger than sasuke, that he was on the rooftop, and also after the cursed seal.

i disagree.

[DoublexxCyclone]

I think if one were to classify hokage level ninjas you have to take the Bleach captain approach.

1) Mastery of at least 2 of the 3 jutsu types
2) Have abilities that are unique (i.e. bloodline limit, or demon posessions) or are at least the top of it's class (i.e. chakra control, intelligence.)

Those are two requirements that i think a hokage level would have. Now it of course is relative. I mean a kage is the strongest ninja in the village am i right. So the kage of the leaf village would be stronger than the kage of the waterfall village. Also in Bleach they have the "if you can attain Bankai you are automatically a captain" club. In Naruto it certainly isn't as clear cut, but I think all hokage levels have those traits in common.

[1]

So the filler arc is over? I stopped watching at episode 140. Will I safely be able to start watching the new series without confusion? If not, what do I need to know

[DoublexxCyclone]

So the filler arc is over? I stopped watching at episode 140. Will I safely be able to start watching the new series without confusion? If not, what do I need to know

Yes, and yes

[Mickey D']

hmm, some very good points are made within the last page.

Just a quick rundown concerning my thoughts of Naruto as of right now:

- Akatsuki isn't the problem, it's the writers who are going to have to man up. Obviously Hidan and Kakuzu are some of the weakest of the gang, however, there are much better ways to kill off these bad asses. I mean shit, turning Kakuzu into a pracitce dummy was a horrible idea. Conclusion: Shit would have been good if written better.

- I'm surprised that there isn't much talk of the infamous battle soon to happen: Sasuke vs good ole' big brother. Sasuke is powerfull as fuck right now, however, Itachi shows strength that rivals a Sanin. Unfortunately, in Naruto it really is hard as fuck to gauge power levels and shit, mainly because of some of the ridiculous things that have been occuring lately (ie: Naruto can learn about 1 billion times faster then anyone else).

[Bowza]

- Akatsuki isn't the problem, it's the writers who are going to have to man up. Obviously Hidan and Kakuzu are some of the weakest of the gang, ).

I think that was part of my dissapointment with the way Kakuzu was taken out. Because nothing would've indicated he's one of the WEAKEST in the group from what was said. I mean, they had to pair him up with Hidan because he'd lose his temper and KILL his other "akatsuki" partners. He also lived a long ass life and has a lot of experience, even fought the first hokage of all people. That sounds like a strong ass nigga, and with all his experience, I don't like how a simple kage-bunshin trick did him in.

[Azrael]

^That's been my problem as well, Akatsuki has been built up to be strong as fuck, and then to have them job out to what's basically "look how much stronger Naruto/Sakura/Shikamaru are!" is really, really anti-climatic. So far the Akatsuki members have been the best thing going for this story too. If Itachi loses to anything less than a team up of the Sannin, I'm going to be miffed.

I think, more than the inevitable Sasuke vs Itachi fight, I just want to know what was it that Itachi found out about the Uchiha clan that made turned him from the prodigal son into clan killer.

[The Damned]

I think if one were to classify hokage level ninjas you have to take the Bleach captain approach.

1) Mastery of at least 2 of the 3 jutsu types
2) Have abilities that are unique (i.e. bloodline limit, or demon posessions) or are at least the top of it's class (i.e. chakra control, intelligence.)

Those are two requirements that i think a hokage level would have. Now it of course is relative. I mean a kage is the strongest ninja in the village am i right. So the kage of the leaf village would be stronger than the kage of the waterfall village. Also in Bleach they have the "if you can attain Bankai you are automatically a captain" club. In Naruto it certainly isn't as clear cut, but I think all hokage levels have those traits in common.

That's still a problem, though, especially as evidenced by the fact that even you can't give clear defintions, at least as clear as Bleach (which I have to take at your word).

Outside of ninja rankings, which aren't even all that clear when it comes to power-level sometimes, seeing as how a Genin (Naruto) can beat someone that can apparently hold their own (?) with one of the apparently more powerful Hokage (Kakuzu) through brute force alone. So then where does the power lie? In the ninja himself? Or the technique that he uses?

Given that ninja rankings appear to be a formal basis, one could easily argue that they are also kind of useless, especially when all the "really" powerful people in them seem to be in rare groups that aren't easily classified (extremely powerful missing-nin and the three sannin) in "caste" system that isn't all that specific to begin with.

And then, what do you have? Ninjutsu and Taijutsu and Genjutsu and Summonings that are nebulously ranked--where the hell do the letter rankings on Wikipedia come from? --and then clan secrets and genetics that just fucking complicate things.

And then you get something can possibly trump the strength of even the strongest ninja should he/she be foolish enough to devote himself/herself to only one element and then get punked out by that element's "weakness". (What was the cycle? Reverse Pokemon as VS put? So...fire beats water, which beats lightning, which beats earth, which beats air, which beats fire. Is that right?)

And you think that measuring "top" of the class was difficult enough to determine?

Let's face it: As with most jobs, it's probably depends on favoritism to some degree.

If you can come up with more strigent requirements that manage to include "all" (read: much disputed) people that "should be" (read: very much disputed) Hokage-level or above with canonical citations (regardless of whether they are open to [some] interpretation) that hasn't been out and out contradicted outside of maybe bloodline limits, then I'll happily "endorse" it.

Conclusion: Shit would have been good if written better.

Wow. That is perhaps the most outstandingly obvious thing that I have ever seen in the past year or two that was not out and out retarded (and by that, I mean made me think that person was actually mentally damaged). Seriously, that's like a Douglas Adams-esque sentence right there.

Anyway, I know what you're saying since it seems to be general trend, but could you just a tad more specific?

- Unfortunately, in Naruto it really is hard as fuck to gauge power levels and shit, mainly because of some of the ridiculous things that have been occuring lately (ie: Naruto can learn about 1 billion times faster then anyone else).

It's not really ridiculous, at least in concept. It's just really absurd because this didn't happen during the timeskip and we see character's developments, i.e. Naruto, Jiraiya, Ino, Choji, suffer for it since Naruto, ever the dumbass, has to prove himself.

Which he already should have fucking done.

Was his last victory really against Gaara as people keep saying? Damn. No wonder everyone says that the chuunin exam was apogee of this manga thus far.

He also lived a long ass life and has a lot of experience, even fought the first hokage of all people. That sounds like a strong ass nigga, and with all his experience, I don't like how a simple kage-bunshin trick did him in.

That's a good point I forgot until I read your post and then included it in the above response.

I am still mystified, mystified, at how "jumping at someone = long-range attacks" in Kakuzu's mind all of a sudden.

Then again, you be surprised how little experience seems to count for sometimes when it comes to (shounen) fiction in general; old peo