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denjin
12-16-2005, 03:57 PM
This is another "Denjin's Compilation of Posts."

Here's stuff gathered up on taking out Chun Li.


Yeah so.. Dud vs. Chun. How the fuck do you win that?

My anti-Chun style is jump in close but not close enough to catch back-fierce or lightning legs, then low block. If I am in close I mix-up with tick c. lk, throw, jump straight up then throw or or backswing blow or j. rh, s. rh xx duck --> mixup.

Biggest problem is getting in close and then when you are close she wins with pokes, often poke xx super. Plus if you get nailed with SA2 in the corner and she super-jump cancels, she will UOH-super or do c. mk super or throw as you come down. That mixup after already get hit with SA2 fucking hurts, and I see no way around that except guessing.



i actually enjoy the vs. Chun fights. i still cannot stand Ken though.

vs. Chun, i try to zone her in that she'll whiff her s. fierces or that'll be the only thing she can throw out 'cuz her c. whatevers are too far. that = parry -> s. roundhouse x EX MGB. and that = Chun in the corner. when she has no meter, pressure the hell outta her, but do so with controlled aggression. you go reckless and she'll have meter in no time and that = a passive Dudley.

when jumping in, don't do so from half screen away. they'll see that coming and they can mix it up which will give you problems.

now when she does have meter, and she will eventually, you can still employ the zoning, but be more wary of the c. forwards and c. jabs. c. forward is self-explanatory, but with c. jabs, she can kara throw you or bait you into tech throwing which will allow her to link into super if she catches a whiffed throw attempt. i wouldn't suggest trying to parry the c. forward. too dangerous when she has meter. she can do a close s. roundhouse xx super or back + fierce xx super. it's a tough, tough match, but it is winnable.

i still hate Ken.

:rock:


sdouble-vslash made my av. i dont think hes making avs anymore though besides for himself, i did him a big favor so i got the av in return.

vs chun? hm, i did pretty well against flash g's chun, even though i played him only 1 round. basically, you need to pressure chun. jumping works great when youre mid range. take the throw and block low. idc if she throws u 3 times in a row, you fucking block low unless youre super confident/desperate. throw 3x is about 1/2 of a c.mk super. once you get in, you can win, just make your mixups opprotunities count. also dont think about all of her options, just think about winning the match. if u ponder all the possibilities you'll just hesitate and lose.



vs chun...

yea just like E said u gotta make every opportunity count.. I hit and run haha... when ever u jump if u think she's gonna b.fp u can rh early to hit her forehead... other than that jump and mis-time ur jump in attacks so she blocks or gets hit and when u land 50/50 with overhead super or 2xc.lk super..




Chun players like to zone, so that's one aspect you wanna keep in mind.

from certain distances, they will only do certain things, so that's what i watch out for. i try to see how far something can reach so when they're out of range, i'll know that they won't use that normal.

if they're out of c. forward range, they're almost always gonna poke with s. fierce so it's safe to tap forward -> s. roundhouse x EX MGB.

if they're within the max range of their c. forward, i do early j. roundhouse or empty jump -> SSB.

as far as them doing repeated c. jabs to go into kara throw or bait you in to attempting to tech throw, you just gotta be patient and try your best to watch out :lol:.

:rock:



Well most Chun's have very shitty defense and will fall prey to random jumps and a mixup here or there. Watch for the spacing on the UOH super because it's pretty tight unless it's meaty. If Chun has super just block low, don't bother teching the throw, it's not worth it. s.rh xx ssb will give you some breathing room in the corner. Blocking low is pretty important in this match, as is spacing/timing on jumps. Empty jump, throw is good in this match too.

Most Dudley vs Chun matches go like this. Dudley scrapes chun for s little bit, then gets kept out or thrown alot till another opprotunity/lucky parry happens. The only way you're really going to OWN a Chun is if you're just alot better than them, or get really lucky on mixups. Chun is a tough matchup for Dudley probably 6/4 Chun, Dudley just has that random huge damage effect going for him, but a good Chun hss just about everything else...


i am not 100% sure this is for chun li
probably is though

I would probably do c.hk x2, dash c.mp xx ex dp.



Well that dashing uppercut combo looks hella cooler. Thats not a bad reason to do it.

I would probably do s. hk --> ex MGB --> c. hk --> dash --> uppercut or mk ducking straight xx super if the sluts low on health.



Thats probably the best combo you can do on chun midscreen, unless you have 2 meters, then I would opt to do s rh xx duck super, rh duck, j.rh over-mixup from there. F+Rh, c.short x2, jump straight up rh, ssb etc..



twds + forward x strong Jet Uppercut xx Corkscrew does 7 points more damage than that one you posted :tup:.

i'd probably do what epsilon_ suggested.

if i'm playing safe, i'll do twds + forward x strong Jet xx Cork or s. roundhouse x EX MGB -> c. roundhouse -> dash -> fierce Jet.

:rock:



if ur back against the corner and Chun is wide open like that, u can go for roundhouse, shortswingblow xx super.


with shotos youre gonna be whiffing alot of s.mp outside of sweep range. occasional s.rh to beat out stuff, but it can be swept so be aware of that. f+mk is a great move to because it builds meter, and is a hitconfirm if they decide to dash or w/e. use your fierces to smack whiffs (s.hp/f+hp). punish blocked sweeps with duck xx super. for anti air youre gonna wanna use s.mk into chain, or s.rh xx duck.

against chun...uhhh you lose. you can try to build some meter with medium punches. s.rh her limbs off if you can. don't whiff c.rh, s.fp, or f+fp once chun has meter, because they are all pretty easy ways to get supered fast. not to say never use them once she has meter, its just alot more risky. random c.rh is good to keep her on her toes just dont whiff it, because even without meter you'll get punched in the face. your best bet against chun is semi play the ground game, get meter, then do random jumps in between a semi ground game, and mixup from there.

block or parry the jump back air hadouken, when he jumps forward to mk hurricane(which i assume is an air version), parry twice, then hit him with a big combo. its akuma, so if u do something like s.rh xx fierce dp, that will put the hurt on him. you cannot duck under air fireballs, so stop trying. or just block the dp and hit him again...

the s.rh to fight chuns s.fp only works if she whiffs it, you have to stand outside her range, then hit her arm. if she keeps using s.fp just jump in and hit her with a big combo. chun doesnt have a f+fp btw, it's just s.fp. as for back +fp jumpins work well also, f+fp is your best bet as far as a ground normal, but watch for c.mk. also jump in parry works well against back+fp, but watch it when she starts to cancel it into lightning legs.


done on full health chun li standing in corner.
this isn't all the combinations but i just got around to it and i'll post up more as i do them and see which one's i haven't done yet.

damage amount / combo
68 : 5 cr. rh's, ducking straight add on csb and it does 81

67 : 5 sweeps, ducking upper add on csb it does 80

70: 4 sweeps, lp mgb, lp ssb add on csb it does 82

62 : 5 sweeps, hp reset which leads to guessing high low

57 : S. rh, ex mgb, 2 sweeps, lp mgb, 2 sweeps

65 : s. rh., ex mgb, 2 sweeps, lp mgb, sweep, ssb

61: 5 sweeps into dart shot reset for high low guessing

56 : st. rh., ex mgb, 5 sweeps

62 : st. rh, ex mgb, lp mgb f+mk into hp upper

63 : st. rh, ex mgb, 2 sweeps, lp mgb, f+mk, hp upper

the last two do the same damage almost and one is 2 more hits...wtf?
now look at the below same damage dif. variation. one less sweep is only 1 point dif?!

62: st. rh, ex mgb, sweep, lp mgb, f+mk hp upper

61 : 6 sweeps lol easy as shit to the others and same damgae with no bar usage.



There's more and i'll do em later. my question is why the weird damage reduction and on the st. rh. into ex mgb combos can you only do five juggles after that b/c the ex counts as one?

if anybody wants to do more feel free i'm gonna do the others sometime soon!



yes youre at big disadvantage against a turtling chun on paper, and irl. its a tough match, its not unwinnable, but you have to take calculated risks, and be unafraid. every chun has holes in her defense, once u get in and if its a jab masher chun do option selects, like c.lk walk up down parry. once you stop her squirming, then you can mixup better. just try to get her in the corner. basically i mean build meter & hold your ground, (i use sa3 so i get meter faster) then attack chun, but dont make your jumps too obvious. it helps if youre really good at air parrying in this match too. if you know shes gonna tick, kara throw you do c.mp xx duck super to catch her throw attempt. kara throws take longer than normal throws, so it isnt as hard as trying to combo a normal throw attempt.

and yeah scott, u can only do 5 juggles after a ex mgb because the 1st hit counts as one. also damage scaling gets pretty extreme after ex mgb juggles, but the extra hits are still worth it because of the meter you build.

Character Specific Matchups

Reccomened SA will be in order of usage if more than one is applicable. All Contributors will be put in credits. My theory about matchups is that you need to know what the other character can do just as well as you know what Dudley can do.

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Alex

*work in progress*

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Akuma

*work in progress*

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Chun-Li 6-4 Chun-Li

Reccomended SA: SA1, SA3

No matter how you slice it, a good Chun is a tough matchup for any Dudley. Blocking low is important in this matchup, as is using your jumps wisely. Chun has the best ground game in 3s, but Dudley does alot of damage, and is hard to defend against, so he needs to use his advantages wisely. Play footsies with chun by walking back and forth outside of her ranges with s.mp, random (but not whiffed) c.rh, and s.rh(Canceled into ex MGB outside of range, use this to punish chuns whiffed fierces) building meter. Randomly jumping to get in, and mixing up from there. I find empty jump, throw works well against chun and sets up throw baits. I wouldnt try throwing chun excessively though because she has so many anti throw moves. With super, I would definately reccomend against it, it's a very easy way to catch a c.mk super. If chun knocks you down in the corner with meter, I would just take the throw, or try something like s.rh xx short swing blow to create a little breathing room, or c.lk-c.mp-c.hp chain to push her off you with something quick. Something to realize is that you WILL get hit by the super, so don't let it take you out of your game, you can't always guess right. Once Chun is in the corner, it's anyones game, but remember be patient and don't get frustrated. To be honest, Dudley loses this matchup till he gets something lucky, but he has so much random damage it evens out a bit.

Notes:Chun can be c.rhed twice midscreen, Chun wakes up crouching, so the meaty block rule does not apply to her. Chun falls out of dp xx SA1 combos. Chun gets up slowly, meaning you can do super, rh duck, j.rh over, mixup on her, which henceforth I will be calling the j.rh mixup.

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Dudley

*work in progress*

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Elena

*work in progress*

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Hugo 7-3 Dudley

Reccomended SA:While I used to think 1 was better, 3 is actually your best choice in this matchup so you can employ more of an anti air strategy.

Hugo really isnt hard at all. Fight him like a shoto aka mostly on the ground, I like to fight hugo outside of his c.mk range. Throw out lots of s.mp and s.rh because you want that meter. s.rh xx exx mgb option select is very good in this matchup. f+fp is a good move to smack his whiffs, random c.rh will keep him on his toes. random rose really isnt bad either because the roses arc pretty much shuts down hugos jumps. Don't get close to hugo, because 1, if you're close he can gigas/spd you, and 2 you dont need to be close to fight hugo. Duck super when he jumps. early j.rh antics are also reccomended here once you knock him down, but DO NOT GET PARRIED, if hugo has meter don't do this, it isn't worth it.

notes:s.rh, c.mp/s.mp links on hugo.

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Ibuki 5.5-4.5 Dudley

Reccomened SA:SA3 only, Ibuki jumps alot, and takes damage like a bitch all at the same time.

Well basically Ibuki is an extremely tricky character, probably the trickiest in 3s. She has alot of anti throw stuff, so I reccomend against throwing in reset situations most of the time. Alot of times after a c.rh s.rh(far) chain Ibuki will super jump after you and either parry or attack. Duck under SA3 negates all of this. You can reversal super Ibuki after kind of alot of stuff, but REVERSAL only meaning you have to be either really fast or expecting it. f+rh, poorly spaced slide,close c.mk, and poorly spaced UOH can all be punished with reversal super. Dudley's s.mk is good in this matchup because it tends to beat out normal daggers and other stuff she does when she's flipping on your head. EX dp can always be punished if blocked (and she doesn't cancel into sa1) with your own ex dp. those jab traps are annoying, but just wait till you see an opening or something. block low on wakeup, the only high thing she has that you cant see and block on reaction is UOH. f.rh her alot, a smart Ibuki will block low vs Dudley. do not(try) punish slides with c.mp unless its a very close slide. s.rh is ok in this matchup, but if you whiff it too much you will get hit with slides. c.mp is pretty good, watch out for random ex slide when youre building meter. f.mk is also good in this matchup. I wouldnt reccomened jumping at Ibuki too frequently, she has some good AA mixups.

notes:Ibuki is short on crouch, so she cant be hit with s.rh xx ex machine gunblow if shes crouching. So I just go for s.rh xx duck super if i get a jump in. also ibuki is skinny, s.rh xx ex mgb, f+mk xx dp will not work on her. use jab mgb, mk duck upper as your ender instead. Ibuki is a girl so c.rh juggles work on her in the corner, she is very skinny so i reccomend doing some jab mgbs too to so you wont miss a c.rh.

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Ken 5-5

Reccomended SA: SA3, SA1

Alot of people may be surprised at my 5-5 matchup, but I truly believe it's even. Dudley fights Ken well on the ground. Ken will use s.fp, c.mk, ex fireballs, c.rh, his dp, and s.mk mostly to keep you out. Thankfully you can counter alot of his stuff if you're smart. C.Rh can be punished at any range with rh duck xx fierce SA3, and s.mk can be punished up close with s.mp (meaning s.mp xx duck xx super). F+Fp is good in this match because it moves forward so much and will hit Ken buidling meter or whiffing c.mk. Something flashG told me, that helped me alot in this and playing Dudley in general is DON'T THROW SO MUCH STUFF OUT. I can't count how many times Paulee and FlashG would parry loose shit I did, and then how much better I did when I spaced my normals out. Don't always pressure with Dudley. Anyway you know what Ken does, in most situations I'd reccomened what I do with Chun, BLOCK LOW, and follow your heart. Blocking low alone will decimate most scrub Ken's who don't hit confirm c.mk. f+mk works well in this match too. Duck under, SA3 is also very good when you predict Ken's crossup. Dudley can be crossed up in the corner as well, so be aware of that. If you parry a deep anti air, start your combo with j.fp or another fast normal, as j.rh's startup is too slow to come out before you hit the ground.

Notes:C.mk is punishable up close with reversal super, Shotos get up slowly, so j.rh mixup midscreen.

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Makoto

*work in progress*

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Necro

*work in progress*

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Oro

*work in progress*

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Q

*work in progress*

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Remy

*work in progress*

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Ryu

*work in progress*

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Sean

*work in progress*

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Twelve

*work in progress*

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Urien

*work in progress*

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Yang

*work in progress*

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Yun

*work in progress*

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This is bascially just a skeleton of what's to come, I just put Ken and Chun up because they're pretty much the most common matchups you'll encounter. Remeber if anyone wants to contribute, or finds anything they think is incorecct I will definately edit and change the guide to be the most efficent it can be.



you can punish any shoto sweep with a duck xx super. Against Chun, I feel your pain with the jumpins. f+fierce is good against Chun. Sometimes it feels like it's the only thing to do. If you are a better footsie player then the Chun player, feel free to punish whiffs with a s. rh xx ex mgb. So yeah, basically remember that you can fuck her up badly very soon into the match, while she has to get super first. Build some meter using whiffed s. rh's, then zone, try to punish a whiffed fierce or b+fierce with an option select rh. Since she will prolly be in the corner, ur combo should look like this:

s. rh xx ex mgb, c. rh x 5, reset, then do a 50/50 c. rh or f+rh, super link (u will have meter after u do the c. rh's on her).

hope taht helps.



Use s. fierce to punish her whiffed fierces. They do a lot of stun. And yep, it matters...I don't remember which exactly, but I'm ALMOST positive it's the rh one because i remember testing it and it's very easy to punish even MAX range shoto sweeps without reversal timing (and trust me when i say MAX ... i tested that shit to the tippy toes).

But yeah, main thing against Chun is punishing her whiffs with your s. rh and OWN her after u connect an ex mgb. A lot of times, one ex mgb on Chun can mean her death because every single time dudley lands a combo, he's in your face when you're getting up and Dudley has THE best high/low mix up game in the game.

OH YEAH, btw. If Chun is like Elena, then the ex mgb combos will miss her even combo'ed off a s. rh. So that is even more reason to do them on her while she's standing. Sorry to sound like a broken record, but punishing her whiffs with option select s. rh is really IMO the best way to fuck her up (if you cant jump in on her and get in on her that way).


I forgot to mention the GOLD that you have in your post. Out of all that you said, IMO, one of THE most important things to abuse is jumping in when she throws out a s. fierce. This is IMO THE number one mistake Chun makes against Dudleys. Throwing out too many s. fierces. This lets Dudley jumpin on her for free almost and start his mixup game.

As for Oro, I still think it's easier to jump in on him although he does have stuff like dash under combo, c. fierce, strong fireball (good against Dud's low jump arc).



id suggest switching to SA1 against chun btw. you dont get many chances to hit her, and when you do you want it to be as hard as possible. chun usually gives you plenty of time to build meter, because most of the time shes building it herself.

denjin
01-30-2006, 07:24 PM
Bump. Should I just let this thread die?

Suupaa
01-30-2006, 11:46 PM
Hell no, I don't know how i missed this thread earlier. Great job again.

AneurysmX
02-02-2006, 04:56 PM
Except u quoted stuff from Geese.....

PTS one
02-02-2006, 05:56 PM
Except u quoted stuff from Geese.....

Isn't he ranked higher than you and S4 in TOSF in term of Dudley player??? :rofl:

YellowS4
02-02-2006, 06:59 PM
Hahahahha.

DarkGiygas
02-02-2006, 07:39 PM
geese owns

Gaijinblaze
02-02-2006, 08:34 PM
If you parry a c.MK, do c.MP into MK duck (xx super if it hits). Even if she cancels into the super, your c.MP will stuff it as long as you do it as early as you can.

kal el
02-03-2006, 12:44 AM
If you parry a c.MK, do c.MP into MK duck (xx super if it hits). Even if she cancels into the super, your c.MP will stuff it as long as you do it as early as you can.

that's awesome. didn't know that.

:rock:

Suupaa
02-03-2006, 01:14 AM
Word. Man you guys in Canada got shit on lock. I always hate getting punished for parrying c.mk.

Gaijinblaze
02-03-2006, 02:25 AM
I just noticed... my user title (which has nothing to do with SF) matches what I said so perfectly. :lol:

Not a good strategy, but assuming the Chun late cancels, an immediate standing HK after the parry will also beat the super. The problem there is that you miss the opportunity to land your own super if she doesn't cancel, since the HK won't hit her from that far. And if she cancels early or you do the move too late, you're getting supered.

With c.MP it doesn't matter what she does. When you see her super starting up, leave out the duck since her super brings her next to you. The main thing is to not be afraid and avoid hesitating after parrying the move. Too bad that feeling of reluctance has already been ingrained into everyone.

Sir Jiggles
02-03-2006, 07:41 AM
What happens if you don't leave out the duck?

It's just habit for me to always to c.mp into duck super.

AneurysmX
02-03-2006, 01:35 PM
Ya I hate the fact that U cant hit Chun with ST.RH after parrying her L.Mk... so I just tap forward, either she supers and get parried or I just walk up and throw her.

laputa
02-08-2006, 07:27 PM
yea anything under 5 frames can hit her outta super after u parry the c.mk

btw, i once parried the c.mk (she didnt cancel), when i tried to punish with 2mp, it whiffed........she's too damn short

AneurysmX
02-08-2006, 09:26 PM
Ya I dont think l.mp can hit chun after parrying her l.mk.....

Gaijinblaze
02-08-2006, 10:30 PM
Well, there is a certain distance (max range basically) where the c.MP won't hit her. But I think that when she has meter, it's still the best thing you can do. If you risk doing a bigger move and she's really good (or really scrubby) and does the super, you know what happens. I'd rather parry and whiff a c.MP (knowing I can beat the super if she does it) than not do anything. Walking forward and throwing sounds good too, but at max range (the same place where c.MP would whiff) she would probably recover quickly enough to tech it by the time you get there.

c.LK c.LK c.MP and c.LK c.MP c.HP chains will put you just outside of c.MK distance, and the only good move she has that will hit you from there is standing HP. So maybe after connecting or having one of those chains blocked, parrying high might be a risk worth taking, as long as she doesn't walk forward before you do it.

kal el
02-09-2006, 10:25 AM
if you have a super handy, you can also just super straight out after you parry her c. forward. if she doesn't super, you win. if she supers, you still win.


parrying high might be a risk worth taking

i agree. when you're outside of her low poke range, a Chun player will usually use s. fierce or back + fierce (even though that one has less range than just s. fierce). occasionally, they'll use twds + forward. either way, a high parry negates them all. if they use c. strong on you, not really a big deal since it doesn't cancel or link into anything.

:rock:

laputa
02-09-2006, 07:08 PM
yea im with you on the cr.mp after parring chun's c.mk at max range
or u can take the risk and do cr.hk

denjin
05-16-2006, 10:16 AM
bump

Suupaa
07-30-2006, 04:20 PM
bump

Mihai
06-23-2007, 11:07 PM
This is my new favorite thread.

JBeezie
07-22-2007, 05:22 AM
i dont agree on parrying low medium in the first place, it makes the game 50/50

chance....either dudley does low roundhouse punish/or gets eaten by super....cuz

if u watch kokujin play, when hes in close range he actually waits for the chun li

player to hit him with low medium and he blocks it, it is possible to punish it with

low roundhouse, thats ur main poke against Chun (imo).....be careful if u overuse

it.....cuz then the ur opponent will wait for that move to come out and punish it

with a super.......if u desire to mash low roundhouse, do that when she has no

bar...

JaHa
08-08-2007, 10:47 PM
one of or prolly the most hardest matchup in the game
definitely dudleys hardest match up
its pays off for chun not to do anything
and punish mistakes
this pretty much applies to everyone though against chun
and her priority is top notch

u pretty much have to guess and take risks to stand a chance

sorry im no help, but even kokujin gets rolled by scrubby chuns in japan
prolly the reason he retired

drobizh
08-09-2007, 03:11 AM
aren't akuma and ryu the worst matchups for dud? i don't know just askin

Suupaa
08-09-2007, 07:19 PM
nah no way.

ryu is a bit tough, that fierce rapes duds jump.

but it's nowhere near as bad as chun.

Jaha, you still playing duds?

Dander
08-09-2007, 07:28 PM
stfu suupaa i think you meant roundhouse.

kin3tix
08-10-2007, 06:45 PM
I think so too, but shoto far st. fierce is still a decent tool against Dud. It does shut down jumps and can stuff Dud out of things (like sweep).

drobizh
08-12-2007, 04:33 AM
checked the tier list, and it's supposed to be 5:5 with chun:S as is with ryu, and akuma is 6:4 in akumas favor. don't get it

drobizh
08-12-2007, 04:37 AM
and one dude that plays a good dudley (for our scene) here, says that akuma's roundhouse is not as bad as ryus. i don't see the difference tho

JaHa
08-15-2007, 03:22 AM
yeah i still play duds
i think ryu's standing RH is a pain in the ass for dud
cuz it hits early mid or late when dud jumps in
but u can cr dash super it if they spam too much

SmrK
08-18-2007, 04:00 AM
I really don't get it myself. Ryu's RH is so freckin' annoying, a pain to parry and it screws up all of my jump-ins. Gouki's animation looks the same, yet I find it much easier to deal with... Whatever, probably just my imagination...


Oh yeah, ontopic: Chun sucks rectum...

Jeesup
08-29-2007, 03:31 PM
read somewhere that chun's c. mp/c. mk could stuff corkscrew blow. pfft i didnt believe it.

recently i was playing against a friend using chun and we were both down to a pixel of life each. he's in the corner so i empty jump in mid range and fierce corkscrew blow. his c. mp goes UNDER my corkscrew blow, stuffs my super clean, and kills me.

couple rounds later, same scenario except i have about 20% life left and my friend is down to a pixel's worth again. we're both in mid screen so i decide to jump in corkscrew blow ftw. right after my super animation i see his c. mk drop him down, dodge my super, hit me -> xx into super.

so yeah. early/distanced c. mp and c. mk will rape your corkscrew blow. i guess you should always duck in xx super for chip wins? dont be a scrub like me and go for jump in chip supers :sad:

SmrK
08-29-2007, 11:16 PM
read somewhere that chun's c. mp/c. mk could stuff corkscrew blow. pfft i didnt believe it.

recently i was playing against a friend using chun and we were both down to a pixel of life each. he's in the corner so i empty jump in mid range and fierce corkscrew blow. his c. mp goes UNDER my corkscrew blow, stuffs my super clean, and kills me.

couple rounds later, same scenario except i have about 20% life left and my friend is down to a pixel's worth again. we're both in mid screen so i decide to jump in corkscrew blow ftw. right after my super animation i see his c. mk drop him down, dodge my super, hit me -> xx into super.

so yeah. early/distanced c. mp and c. mk will rape your corkscrew blow. i guess you should always duck in xx super for chip wins? dont be a scrub like me and go for jump in chip supers :sad:


Corkscrew blow gets stuffed by long range lows. And that sucks. Even Uriens c.HK will hit you if they keep the distance...

I usualy throw a rose and go in with an EX mgb for chip victories. I know it can get parried, so depending on the range I mix it up sometimes, but EX will get the job done most of the time.

humbag
09-03-2007, 09:14 PM
checked the tier list, and it's supposed to be 5:5 with chun:S as is with ryu, and akuma is 6:4 in akumas favor. don't get it

Akuma can deal with Duds a lot better than ryu.

Akuma is just like ryu with an annoying RH but has air hadou to zone you out pretty good too.

Still however, one big combo or hit from dudley to akuma = dead akuma haha.

Id still probably put dud v akuma 5-5 but thats just me

SmrK
09-04-2007, 05:04 AM
Akuma can deal with Duds a lot better than ryu.

Akuma is just like ryu with an annoying RH but has air hadou to zone you out pretty good too.

Still however, one big combo or hit from dudley to akuma = dead akuma haha.

Id still probably put dud v akuma 5-5 but thats just me

Id go with 6-4 on this one. In Akumas favor.

Main part of Dudleys game is getting the opponent into the corner and than going mixup-beast on their ass. Since Akuma can always reversal teleport out of the corner and make Dudley chase him, those tactics can be kinda hard to employ. Well, if Dudley had Makoto's dash... :wgrin:

drobizh
09-05-2007, 02:50 AM
teleport can be stuffed with ex machine gun unless dud is doing some slow recovery move. and he can juggle him after for half his bar so i don't see the big deal about the teleport. akuma can zone dudley very well if played properly.

the problem with chun is that some of duds bnb combos dont work on her like hk x ex mgb if she's crouching(if you hit the hk). her b+hp is stupid as usual and stuffs every dudley poke plus she can super after. she can punish dudleys sa3 with cr mk into super if she blocked. so i guess it's better to play sa1, cause you get punished the same on block, but if you land it it's extra damage (props to smrk for this and also he can take the blame if i'm wrong:D)

SmrK
09-05-2007, 03:17 AM
so i guess it's better to play sa1, cause you get punished the same on block, but if you land it it's extra damage (props to smrk for this and also he can take the blame if i'm wrong:D)


This was strictly imho, but I think it should stick. :blush:
My potential misconception can be acredited to no really good Chuns in the vicinity, so I wouldn't really lay my balls on the fire for it.

drobizh
09-05-2007, 03:29 AM
i think you're right about sa1. but we could be really wrong

humbag
09-05-2007, 01:17 PM
I still play SA3 against her though even though in this matchup either super is just as punishable. However i feel safer with SA3 just because its a little better of an AA and I can reversal stuff more with it (even if you dont get full damage ill take it cause i get chun li knocked down)

Jeesup
09-05-2007, 03:08 PM
i always thought sa3 was better due to the fact that you could reversal a blocked wakeup EX spinning bird kick. i know you can do it with sa1 too... but the timing feels a helluva lot stricter than just plowing through with a fierce sa3.

meh.. i guess sa1 is good too. maybe i just need to learn to time that shit^?

Mechanica
09-05-2007, 03:23 PM
SA1 is nice because if you land the dart shot (f+hk) link, it's always max damage from the super, unlike Corkscrew if you're too far away. However, I love the anti-air use of duck (under) xx SA3.

drobizh
09-05-2007, 03:37 PM
you can anti air with srk xx sa1 if done late enough. don't know about the timing how strict it really is. we all tryin to learn here. the thing i think is stupid with sa1 is that it sometimes only the first three hits hit and the last 8 miss. oh yeah akuma has a free demon if the sa1 is blocked:D

Jeesup
09-05-2007, 03:43 PM
mm how far can be you after the dartshot hits for sa1 to connect? doesnt seem like the range would be any better than sa3...

SmrK
09-05-2007, 11:25 PM
mm how far can be you after the dartshot hits for sa1 to connect? doesnt seem like the range would be any better than sa3...


Am not sure, but I think that it reaches pretty far out, as the whole animation seems to bend Dudley down and forward. I think that all of the hits connect, as long as you hit with the dart shot. Will try it out after work to make sure.

humbag
09-06-2007, 02:06 PM
i dono if the range is better exactly but dartshot->SA1 is much easier than SA3

however, not to downplay SA1 cause its about as good, i still find SA3 to be superior against chun li.

for instance with SA1: you land dartshort(or anything)->super in the corner, you now do your corner mixups but you probably dont have another SA1 ready cause most of the time you dont have 2 bars ready, your still in a good situation with them in the corner but you dont have a super to make them worry

with SA3 you will more often have 2 bars ready to go, so after you land dartshot (or anything)->super in the corner you have another super waiting with your 50/50 mixup.

in short 2 SA3 bars = roughly around 1.5 bars SA1 and potentially landing 2 corkscrews is much more damage than one SA1 so i would rather take my chances with SA3.

also SA3 has a few more uses than SA1

YellowS4
09-08-2007, 05:47 AM
sa3 > 1.

SmrK
09-10-2007, 12:19 AM
sa3 > 1.

Your argumentaion made me see the light!!
Praise Jesus and use SA3 any place, any time :pray::pray:

Srsly, I'm discovering hot water here and saying that SA3 is better than SA1:clap:

RockTakane
09-16-2007, 10:50 PM
Chun is harder to beat than Urien? I HATE Urien the most when using Dudley, but Chun is obviously a tough match-up.
I'd like to think SA1 was as good as SA3, but it's really hard to get all the hits of 1 on jumping opponents. I also love duck under SA3, and I ALSO find dart shot into SA1 a lot easier. I think my friend Mike Z. agrees with me on this (timing, not positioning/range), but a good Dudley player I used to play says they're the same. I guess it'd all come down to how many start-up frames/hit frames each super has? I should try SA1 and see if I win more, but I hardly use it anymore :P SA3 offers better mix-ups just cos you have it more often. I don't really see anyone use SA1 anymore; except for flashy combos.

B.L. Pancho
09-26-2007, 11:43 AM
In the the wiki it describes the matchup as being even or near even. Somebody lied.

I personally believe in SA1.

Jeesup
09-27-2007, 04:11 PM
, and I ALSO find dart shot into SA1 a lot easier.

o_O both sa1 and sa3 are identical in this situation.

both have same input + motions

both have same startup (1 frame/instant)

erikstanton
09-28-2007, 06:28 PM
hi im dudley and i want to kill myself after losing to chun so many times. seriously i want to cry. and yeah, that wiki did lie.

YellowS4
09-28-2007, 10:10 PM
o_O both sa1 and sa3 are identical in this situation.

both have same input + motions

both have same startup (1 frame/instant)

Sa1 hits where 3 won't.

humbag
09-29-2007, 11:07 AM
SA1 feels easier to hit after dartshot cause when you drum the buttons each button activates SA1 at the same distance. Each button with SA3 is same startup but like lp goes short, mp goes out a little further, etc. Thats my reasoning anyway.

RockTakane
10-02-2007, 01:47 AM
I thought it was a psychological thing, but maybe it's just distance that makes it seem easier to connect w/ SA 1; rather than timing.

OK: I'm feeling pretty DESPERATE against good Chuns, and watching Ohnuki beat Dudleys about 95% of the time is discouraging (I wish TKP played more often or at least had more matches on YouTube!).

If I remember correctly, the best thing against Chun's whiffed st. hp and b+hp is punishing with st. hk? It has deceptive range when punishing whiffs, it seems. A good Chun would be careful about whiffing standing punches too much though.

Is there any sense in trying to punish far whiffed b+hp with MGB/exMGB? Chun would being doing this to build meter. You'd have to do it the same time she whiffs, I think. When Chun doesn't have meter, would it be worth trying to throw random roses if far enough away to avoid getting hit? That might be a way to get closer and throw her/get a knockdown?

I guess the best thing to do, groundgame-wise, is to try and bait Chun with whiffed punches like crap-range st. lp, and then punish her whiffs in turn? Also, it seems like Chun mostly gets caught off-guard by cr. hk when she's zoning you.

I want to find the post by a guy who mentioned what might help a LOT for jump-ins: try an early st. hk to knock her out of b+hp?

I fear the main chance of winning is getting a lucky parry. Cr. lp might be good for stuffing throw attempts (not sure about kara-throw).

RockTakane
10-02-2007, 01:50 AM
On a side note, I don't drum the buttons for linking the dartshot. My main problem when I mess up is the ROTATIONS. I've felt that doing 3 rotations (1 fairly early) helps a LOT, but it feels like cheating lol.

YellowS4
10-03-2007, 06:35 AM
Is there any sense in trying to punish far whiffed b+hp with MGB/exMGB? Chun would being doing this to build meter. You'd have to do it the same time she whiffs, I think. When Chun doesn't have meter, would it be worth trying to throw random roses if far enough away to avoid getting hit? That might be a way to get closer and throw her/get a knockdown?

I guess the best thing to do, groundgame-wise, is to try and bait Chun with whiffed punches like crap-range st. lp, and then punish her whiffs in turn? Also, it seems like Chun mostly gets caught off-guard by cr. hk when she's zoning you.

I want to find the post by a guy who mentioned what might help a LOT for jump-ins: try an early st. hk to knock her out of b+hp?



Early business elbow works wonders. And it's a j.rh!

No way you can catch a whiffed b.fp with a mgb/exmgb. You don't want to even try.

F.fp isn't bad vs Chun.
Corner pressure with f.jab iirc stuffs her ex sbk here and there as well.

humbag
10-03-2007, 09:43 AM
Yeah early J.RH is teh goodins.
F+FP is great for nailing her but just dont wiff it. You wiff = free c.mk->sa2

RockTakane
10-04-2007, 01:08 PM
DOH! I got so used to typing "st." and "cr." that I forgot that I indeed meant J. rh lol: thanks for the reminder as I know I left out that part... :looney: