AI vs online.. Which is better?

[xYourMasterx]

Which do you think is better? I actally think it's better to play the AI if you have offline comp. Even if you don't have offline comp. but go to tournie I think it's way better to play the AI. Online lag will mess up your timing. If you watch match videos and play AI then you'll get better then if you play online. That's just my opinion. What do you think?

[Oo 3s masta oO]

I agree with you when i get better im cutting offline online play for a good while until i get better enough were im not making stupid mistakes all the time lol

[XT Mercenary]

online

AI is shit

[XEN MASTER MARK]

I find the AI useless for anything but execution practise.

I've lost count of the times I've seen it do unfeasible stuff like pull you out of an EX Tackle with Karakusa. It has impossible refelexes, like knowing when you're about to throw a fireball, before the animation has even started. It's also highly unpredicatable and rarely punishes your mistakes like a good player would.

Online is so much better (unless you get somebody crap). Any mistake could potentially cost you the round and there are all sorts of mind games involved, that you can't use against the AI. It definitely plays hell with your timing though.

Offline for the win!

EDIT:

Just thinking; the AI has no zoning, wakeup or corner game either. It's possible to improve your own corner game and zoning against it, but you won't learn how to counter a strong corner game or effective zoning from your opponent. The AI just doesn't do that well.

[Phix]

Screw the AI Screw live OFFLINE IS TEH TRUTH :lovin: seriously there as bad as each other playing the AI only makes u learn patterns and how to abuse them and as mark said execution practice , live is ok to a point as you can grasp some of the fundementals of the game but it can and will mess up your offline timing :sad: wich is why i stopped playing on live

[Gaijinblaze]

I don't have Live, but sometimes when I'm just fucking around in 1P mode (pretty often these days), I wish it was just about anybody instead of the CPU. Hell, even a lag abuser or dropper would be better.

[BZA]

If you dont have offline comp than online is the TRUTH!!! 'Cause u aint learning shit from the cpu. Before I got Live I used to play the cpu all the time and made hardly any progress in getting better, only execution. In the short time I have had Live I have improved much faster due to the fact that i'm playing other people (mostly better than me), which is the only way to get better in a fighting game.

Online for the win!!

[Oo 3s masta oO]

Now i dont want any of you to take this the wrong way. But saying the AI is shit is saying that you know NOTHING about street fighter 3s. Not one of you who said it is good or will ever be good saying that.

Reasons to practice against the AI

Work on execution: this is important for combos set ups traps tricks mix ups etc. All of these things can be practiced against the computer. Do not take in to account the effectiveness what works on the cpu. you CANNOT outsmart the cpu at all. So dont try.

Work your own style of play: In order to be effective you are going to have to have your own style of play. You cant watch a vid and then try and do what you just saw int he vid in a real fight with out practicing it already. I, at one point was guilty of this. But You really have to work on everything.

Defense and situational things: Defense wins games along with a strong offense. YOU CANNOT win on offense alone I dont care who you are. You are going to block something.

Learn how to punish properly: this IS REALLY the best thing you can do against the computer. Is learn how to punish correctly. If you cant punish then dont bother playing cause you wont win anything.

Last but not least, practice situations and circumstances: When your playing against people you have to know the game inside and out in order to win. Not be random and think your the shit because you can beat shitty ass xbl players. This is why you have the option to practice it. practice makes perfect. even against the AI.

Xbl is good for scrubs to get an understanding of the game or to just have fun. You can get "somewhat" better by playingonline but you wont get to far with just online play. If you wanna sit there and fight a person in japan+ the lag then feel free. sorry im not down for improvement on xbl. Im down for improvement in offline play

Laterz

[TheStreetman]

Now i dont want any of you to take this the wrong way. But saying the AI is shit is saying that you know NOTHING about street fighter 3s. Not one of you who said it is good or will ever be good saying that.

Reasons to practice against the AI

Work on execution: this is important for combos set ups traps tricks mix ups etc. All of these things can be practiced against the computer. Do not take in to account the effectiveness what works on the cpu. you CANNOT outsmart the cpu at all. So dont try.

Work your own style of play: In order to be effective you are going to have to have your own style of play. You cant watch a vid and then try and do what you just saw int he vid in a real fight with out practicing it already. I, at one point was guilty of this. But You really have to work on everything.

Defense and situational things: Defense wins games along with a strong offense. YOU CANNOT win on offense alone I dont care who you are. You are going to block something.

Learn how to punish properly: this IS REALLY the best thing you can do against the computer. Is learn how to punish correctly. If you cant punish then dont bother playing cause you wont win anything.

Last but not least, practice situations and circumstances: When your playing against people you have to know the game inside and out in order to win. Not be random and think your the shit because you can beat shitty ass xbl players. This is why you have the option to practice it. practice makes perfect. even against the AI.

Xbl is good for scrubs to get an understanding of the game or to just have fun. You can get "somewhat" better by playingonline but you wont get to far with just online play. If you wanna sit there and fight a person in japan+ the lag then feel free. sorry im not down for improvement on xbl. Im down for improvement in offline play

Laterz
I agree young sir... I totally agree!!!

[Gaijinblaze]

Now i dont want any of you to take this the wrong way. But saying the AI is shit is saying that you know NOTHING about street fighter 3s. Not one of you who said it is good or will ever be good saying that.

Reasons to practice against the AI

Work on execution: this is important for combos set ups traps tricks mix ups etc. All of these things can be practiced against the computer. Do not take in to account the effectiveness what works on the cpu. you CANNOT outsmart the cpu at all. So dont try.

Work your own style of play: In order to be effective you are going to have to have your own style of play. You cant watch a vid and then try and do what you just saw int he vid in a real fight with out practicing it already. I, at one point was guilty of this. But You really have to work on everything.

Defense and situational things: Defense wins games along with a strong offense. YOU CANNOT win on offense alone I dont care who you are. You are going to block something.

Learn how to punish properly: this IS REALLY the best thing you can do against the computer. Is learn how to punish correctly. If you cant punish then dont bother playing cause you wont win anything.

Last but not least, practice situations and circumstances: When your playing against people you have to know the game inside and out in order to win. Not be random and think your the shit because you can beat shitty ass xbl players. This is why you have the option to practice it. practice makes perfect. even against the AI.

Xbl is good for scrubs to get an understanding of the game or to just have fun. You can get "somewhat" better by playingonline but you wont get to far with just online play. If you wanna sit there and fight a person in japan+ the lag then feel free. sorry im not down for improvement on xbl. Im down for improvement in offline play

Laterz
You're totally wrong, the AI is shit. Everything you said has nothing to do with the actual AI being decent. Practicing execution, defense, and punishing? You can do that against a training dummy or button masher, or anything that does moves and can block. You're giving the AI too much credit just because it does more than stand there.

The AI has no spacing/distance game, it doesn't do proper combos, and it doesn't react to any situation the way a player would. It's shit and it's useless unless you want a moving practice dummy, and even that won't help you get better.

[Oo 3s masta oO]

You're totally wrong, the AI is shit. Everything you said has nothing to do with the actual AI being decent. Practicing execution, defense, and punishing? You can do that against a training dummy or button masher, or anything that does moves and can block. You're giving the AI too much credit just because it does more than stand there.

The AI has no spacing/distance game, it doesn't do proper combos, and it doesn't react to any situation the way a player would. It's shit and it's useless unless you want a moving practice dummy, and even that won't help you get better.



There is nothing wrong about what i have posted because ALL OF THOSE are things that you can do against the AI. you apperently are closed minded and dont see the greater good in playing against the AI. NOTONCE did i say the AI was decent. What i am saying is that it is good to practice against. To improve your over all game. who cares if the AI does combos. the AI isnt going to win you a tourny now is it???? I didnt think so. its up to YOU to make shit happen. And the AI is good for practicing shit against. This is also why I said DO NOT take in to consideration the EFFECTIVENESS what works on the AI. Read and understand b4 you speak.

[BZA]

Now i dont want any of you to take this the wrong way. But saying the AI is shit is saying that you know NOTHING about street fighter 3s. Not one of you who said it is good or will ever be good saying that.

Reasons to practice against the AI

Work on execution: this is important for combos set ups traps tricks mix ups etc. All of these things can be practiced against the computer. Do not take in to account the effectiveness what works on the cpu. you CANNOT outsmart the cpu at all. So dont try.

Work your own style of play: In order to be effective you are going to have to have your own style of play. You cant watch a vid and then try and do what you just saw int he vid in a real fight with out practicing it already. I, at one point was guilty of this. But You really have to work on everything.

Defense and situational things: Defense wins games along with a strong offense. YOU CANNOT win on offense alone I dont care who you are. You are going to block something.

Learn how to punish properly: this IS REALLY the best thing you can do against the computer. Is learn how to punish correctly. If you cant punish then dont bother playing cause you wont win anything.

Last but not least, practice situations and circumstances: When your playing against people you have to know the game inside and out in order to win. Not be random and think your the shit because you can beat shitty ass xbl players. This is why you have the option to practice it. practice makes perfect. even against the AI.

Xbl is good for scrubs to get an understanding of the game or to just have fun. You can get "somewhat" better by playingonline but you wont get to far with just online play. If you wanna sit there and fight a person in japan+ the lag then feel free. sorry im not down for improvement on xbl. Im down for improvement in offline play

Laterz


Good points Shade, so i guess AI is good for something, but lets be serious, are you really going to become a great player by just playing the computer...no way. You need human comp and you need to play a wide range of people, always been like that with fighting games, always will be. I was feeling your post until the last paragraph, i mean no disrespect and you know I look up to you as a player but that last paragraph is bullshit. "online just for scrubs"? "Not down for improvement on xbl"? Then why do u and so many other good players play on live all the time, it must be good for something. Savalas (sorry if I spelt your name wrong) had a great post on this subject in the "enough with the retirement crap thread". Like I said in my first post, if you have a wide range of offline comp or even a decent amount of people to play offline that are actually good players, then hey, no need for live...but if you don't well then, hey again, stick to the cpu if that's your thing but you'll catch me on live.

[Oo 3s masta oO]

Good points Shade, so i guess AI is good for something, but lets be serious, are you really going to become a great player by just playing the computer...no way. You need human comp and you need to play a wide range of people, always been like that with fighting games, always will be. I was feeling your post until the last paragraph, i mean no disrespect and you know I look up to you as a player but that last paragraph is bullshit. "online just for scrubs"? "Not down for improvement on xbl"? Then why do u and so many other good players play on live all the time, it must be good for something. Savalas (sorry if I spelt your name wrong) had a great post on this subject in the "enough with the retirement crap thread". Like I said in my first post, if you have a wide range of offline comp or even a decent amount of people to play offline that are actually good players, then hey, no need for live...but if you don't well then, hey again, stick to the cpu if that's your thing but you'll catch me on live.

The reasoning for your statements make sense but are with out proper information. Most people on live play for there shear love for street fighter 3s. I didnt say playing aginst the computer was going to make you a good player. I said it would improve yoru over all gameplay. It can help you become a great player but only YOU and you playing in tournys and against other people will do that. Thats also something to take in to account. You people just dont understand what it takes to be good at this game... You think you know but if you really knew then I wouldnt have to defend my arguments.:sweat:

[Gaijinblaze]

Now i dont want any of you to take this the wrong way. But saying the AI is shit is saying that you know NOTHING about street fighter 3s. Not one of you who said it is good or will ever be good saying that.

Reasons to practice against the AI
You said the AI isn't shit, then you gave reasons why it's worth practicing against it. None of those things prove the AI isn't shit or even have anything to do with it. Do you even know what AI fucking stands for?

[Oo 3s masta oO]

You said the AI isn't shit, then you gave reasons why it's worth practicing against it. None of those things prove the AI isn't shit or even have anything to do with it. Do you even know what AI fucking stands for?

DOnt try to match wits with me dude because you will lose that battle. You have yet to come up with a counter arguement for WHY the AI is bad to fight against. If you can then speak up. If not SHUT THE FUCK UP.

[BZA]

The reasoning for your statements make sense but are with out proper information. Most people on live play for there shear love for street fighter 3s. I didnt say playing aginst the computer was going to make you a good player. I said it would improve yoru over all gameplay. It can help you become a great player but only YOU and you playing in tournys and against other people will do that. Thats also something to take in to account. You people just dont understand what it takes to be good at this game... You think you know but if you really knew then I wouldnt have to defend my arguments.:sweat:

Relax Shade, we all love 3s:wgrin:, that's why we dont wanna play the CPU all day everyday cause that would get hella boring no matter how great the game is. The title of the thread is "which is better AI or Online" and my opinion is that Online is better than playing the CPU for the simple fact that 1. how much cpu play can one take with no human comp in between and 2. can you really take your game through the levels of getting better by just playing the comp? I say no, regardless of how good i am at 3s, or how "knowledgable" i am, it's an easy answer question, everybody knows you need human comp. So basically what i'm saying, imo of course, is that I would much rather be stuck with xbl and practice mode than CPU and practice mode. Just posting my opinion on the thread title becuase it caught my interest, no need to shut people down saying flat out they are wrong and they will never be good, and they dont understand what it takes to be good. That's the point of a forum, people share ideas go back and forth and everybody learns. Personally I'm nothing special at all at 3s but im slowly but surely getting better and I feel that Live has alot to do with it. If you have nobody to play than live is a must.

P.S. Your points about the advantages of AI play were great and you brought up things I never even thougt about, so good in fact now I have a reason to play the AI so let me thank you for that, and I hope you get well soon (best wishes) so you can put a hurting on me, tell me what im doing wrong, and I can improve that much more.

Peace

[Hell Murder]

A little bit of AI and Live is what I do every day. It usually only takes me one match to get the timing down before I play somebody offline.

---Edit---
Actually, take this into consideration, the AI on 8 stars could probably own HALF the Xbox Live scrubs out there.:sad:

[The Epidemic]

DOnt try to match wits with me dude because you will lose that battle. You have yet to come up with a counter arguement for WHY the AI is bad to fight against. If you can then speak up. If not SHUT THE FUCK UP.
damn..he's fathering u right now Gajinblaze..u gonna let that ride? lol

[Murt!]

The AI puts you into very bad habits that get you killed against real people.

[ParryAll]

If you had a choice between 'only' playing computer AI or 'only' Xbox Live play (assuming you had no friends or people in your area who would play you offline), and you chose computer AI, you are a moron.

Good day.

The AI puts you into very bad habits that get you killed against real people.

What he said.

[Oo 3s masta oO]

All im saying is that the AI is better than what people gives in credit for.

that is all

[DarkGiygas]

damn..he's fathering u right now Gajinblaze..u gonna let that ride? lol
are you serious?

this thread is unintentionally hilarious

[First To 5 Wins]

just chiming in to say that even though online will fuck up your timing, it also gives you unlimited opponents. The more you play real people, the better.

if the guy you're playing is worth playing, then you just have to put up with the occasional delay and try to compensate.

[ParryAll]

All im saying is that the AI is better than what people gives in credit for.

that is all

How do you figure, Shade? The AI in 3s is completely worthless. It doesn't punish, it doesn't parry, it doesn't even really do much of anything. You can't do mind games to it, you can't play footsies with it.

If you wanted to learn parry timing, you'd do it in training mode. If you wanted to practice combos, you'd do it in training mode. I just don't get why any serious player would think playing the CPU will make you better :confused: there just isn't an argument for it.

One more thing, this is 3rd Strike we're talking about. I have never, ever played a fighter with worse AI than 3rd Strike has. It's completely braindead, and if you jack up the stars in the options it just makes you take more damage, and the computer take less damage. It's a joke.

[xYourMasterx]

Okay I'm saying it is better to practice combo, mixups, and hit confirm on the ai. Esp. if your just learning how to do those. Take urien for example if you learn to charge part. online it's going to be hard as hell to do that offline. Urien already hard to learn why add more stress? Also online will make you worst, because online people don't punish you or parry anything. Only thing your really doing online is mashing out combos and doing simple mixups. It's not worth the trouble trying to get the timing on harder mixups right online, because the timing is always chaging and some of the parry mixup will never work online. Heck I'll even say online play will make you start using patterns, because most people are trying to win and if somethings working why stop? The only reason it probly actally working is because of lag.
If I'm just starting to play 3s I'll take the AI over online anyday, because playing the cpu gives you a general idea of how the game is played.Also online play can give you really bad habits and really mess up your parry timing(if you never played offline). But keep in mind it's up to you to learn mixups, combos, and what can be punish when you're playing the AI. When you are playing against others you are learning from them, but when you are playing the AI you have to teach yourself.(which is really hard) I didn't learn all this until I started playing people offline again.

[Oo 3s masta oO]

How do you figure, Shade? The AI in 3s is completely worthless. It doesn't punish, it doesn't parry, it doesn't even really do much of anything. You can't do mind games to it, you can't play footsies with it.

If you wanted to learn parry timing, you'd do it in training mode. If you wanted to practice combos, you'd do it in training mode. I just don't get why any serious player would think playing the CPU will make you better :confused: there just isn't an argument for it.

One more thing, this is 3rd Strike we're talking about. I have never, ever played a fighter with worse AI than 3rd Strike has. It's completely braindead, and if you jack up the stars in the options it just makes you take more damage, and the computer take less damage. It's a joke.

LOL ok yo its all gravy. This isnt worth arguing about since i have already made my points. And i need to get back to sleep. meds kicking in again :sweat:

[Cybuster]

Both have their uses, I feel. If you have no access to local competition, the AI is better for practicing timing; real world, no lag.

However, the AI is robotic, and furthermore has little to no awareness of what is top-tier, nor does it have any genuine psychology. If you want to get a good feel for what you'll be facing at Evo and just don't have real-world opponents, XBox Live is about as good as you can do. You'll see a few Yuns running Gen'ei Jin, plenty of SA2 Chuns, and all the SA3 Kens you could ever want, along with a few Aegis Uriens. Covers most of the tournament environment right there. Plus you'll never see the AI doing a well timed 'gimmick offense'. Sure, AI Ken runs a gimmicky offense, but not a well-timed one. There's things the AI just won't force you to deal with.

Sure, it hurts your timing a little. But you won't get experience against "the real world" anyway else if you totally lack local opponents.

Ultimately, I think they both have their values. If I had to pick which is better...I'll give Online the nod.

[XT Mercenary]

If you think the Ai is actually good for something turn off your XBL and stick to that.

In all honesty the AI in 3S is the worst AI in probably any beat'em up i've played hyper has better AI ffs and that game is damn old. Every character in the game can be beaten by doing a certain chain of moves over and over again.

if you want to practice exceuction etc you can do this in practice mode, online or against a friend

as for the points yourmaster made lolol

Work your own style of play

the only style your going to be creating is a crappy one that works againt the cpu period..

Defense and situational things

if blocking against the cpu gives you jollies lol. The cpu just does random moves have you ever played sean, dudley

Last but not least, practice situations and circumstances

What the situation that the someone may be able to block everymove you do including any type of mix up game you have doubt it...

[brandowned]

Dont worry the thread starter is a scrub.

[xYourMasterx]

Parry mixups are when you bait parrys. I was saying to practice mixup on the AI because it better to practice on a moving target rather than a motionless dummy. Heck anyone can pull mixups off on something not moving. Play scrubs? It doesn't matter how good the person is if you have a bad conn. then the game isn't going to help you. Also I know what the title is.lol and I said what I thought if you know the game it's better to play the ai and practice shit on something moving then practice online with delay. Yes we all know you can't mixup the ai thanks for pointing that out. I rather try and learn stuff with a target that is fighting back, because thats the way it's going to be when you play other people. Also it really sucks when you can't counter c.rh and other shit because of lag. I have cable not dsl sorry,and countless people said you can have t1 and it still won't be offline perfect. I'll say this if you can find a good player and get a good conn. then online is fun as hell, but if it is delay even a little bit it zaps all the fun out of the game. I don't care about losing but I hate losing and feeling like I just got cheated.

edit: I have no idea what your talking about XT.I'm never said come up with your own stlye to beat the ai.Also I never said that playing the ai will make you the best player in the world. but I am saying that playing online isn't that much better. You misunderstood my post. I meant learn different stuff and practice on the cpu doesn't matter if it is blocked. As long as you can do it you can do it in offline matches.

edit2: I just saw a vid on CV where a guy named darrick did pretty good and he only played on xbl so I don't know anymore.

Dont worry the thread starter is a scrub.
I learn some new tricks wait til saturday... also I beat you so that makes you a super scrub.jk

[XEN MASTER MARK]

I was saying to practice mixup on the AI because it better to practice on a moving target rather than a motionless dummy.

Mixing up against the computer is ineffective because the AI has no understanding of what you did last or what you will do next. It could quite easily tech every throw and parry every attack, but instead it affords you a random chance to land hits. You'd likely have just as much success with no mixup at all.

Figure out combos on a still dummy, but practise landing them on a moving one.

It doesn't matter how good the person is if you have a bad conn. then the game isn't going to help you.

I disagree. Even in a poor connection you can observe your opponents broader strategy. How they manage to keep you zoned out, cornered and guessing.


... I am saying that playing online isn't that much better.


Time spent online is much more valuable than time spent against the AI. There are skills you'll need besides being able to punish, that the AI doesn't promote; Wakeup, zoning, corner pressure pokes, footsies, mixup and mind games. It also punishes poorly, which in turn encourages reckless play and makes you ignorant to your vulnerabilities. You don't fully understand the 'unsafe' concept until you play someone that eats half your life for every mistake.

I think the crappy AI is partly to blame for the number of poor players online. J.HK, C.HK destroys the computer and most people start out with this online. Compare the way it plays Ken, versus how inexperienced players use him? They're very similar.

I remember when I first started on Live, having only played the computer. Everyone crowded me on wakeup and went to work with the mixups. I remember thinking "Damn, what a bunch of cheap-ass players!". It didn't occur to me that there was a huge advantage in pressuring on wakeup, because I'd never seen the AI exploit it.

[Hell Murder]

I hate losing and feeling like I just got cheated.

If you play XBL, All I have to say is either find a way around it or get used to it.

The best way to find a way around it is to play the SRK people. Pretty much every non-SRK person is a scrub. That simple...

[Ki Shima]

having no online does nothing but saddens me :sad:

and because of AI i dont give a damn that my xbox conked out :arazz:

3s top difficulty AI is like fighting a...... a level 1 AI :rofl:

[Gaijinblaze]

Jeez, a whole thread later and I'm still right. What's new? The main problem was that Shade didn't understand what I was trying to say but still had the balls to flame. Go back and figure out my posts and you'll realize all this happened for nothing.


edit2: I just saw a vid on CV where a guy named darrick did pretty good and he only played on xbl so I don't know anymore.
Someone posted saying they asked that guy if he has Live, and allegedly he said he doesn't.

[The Orphan]

Well I stopped playing on xbl quite a while ago and I made great improvement. What I did though in order to not fuck up my offline game was I only played online with the xbox controller and never my arcade stick, and for some reason it worked. Whenever I play offline with an xbox controller I do extremely shitty but when I'm at the arcade I beat ass and guess what everything that I learned online DOES in fact work offline. I mean I do get parried a little more offline but for the most part everything I've learned with every character works. So IMO it's a lot better to play people on Live than playing the computer. I mean sure you can practice mixups and shit against the computer but since the computer is so random and fucking stupid you really don't know if what you're doing is even going to work against a human opponent.

[xYourMasterx]

I have been hurt a lot more from playing online then playing the cpu. Please don't get the end of my post wrong I still don't think online play is good. The tournie I went to after I practice online I thought to myself this is nothing like online play. Then people on this forum said it was stupid to play online to practice for a tournie now you people are acting like it is the best shit it the world......wtf? My question is does anybody here go to tournies? If so was it a arcade tournie?

[exodus]

it all depends on who you play against.

[xYourMasterx]

I really agree with the guy above me,because I use too just host and play whoever because I dont like to wait for people I know to accept the invite, (etc.) but now I'm only playing people on my list and it makes the game way more fun. So if your good add me.