BH Combo Thread

[Deathfist]

This thread is for combos, DHC's into, and out of BH, and combos into and out of BH's assist[s].
Although they don't need to necessarily be practical, practicality is recommended.

I will be editing this post occasionally as well.

Many of these have been posted elsewhere

Note:/= or
=*BH-Sent-a*=
This design isn't necessarily optimal for BH. It does give BH some interesting basic combos however.
=Call+dlk,dmk, Inferno/JD/SJ ad-hk[Mid-screen only], follow up with anything except the infinite [too close, barely not enough time...,]

=J[in any direction]Sent-a+lp, micropause, mk, airdash forward, JD, DHC HSF [ouch!!]
-This is for if your opponent is in the air. Kinda like the Jump lp, Call Capcom,mp, inferno vs a jumper.
-so much for that triangle jump you guessed on, and you could airdash out of range if your first attack is blocked or misses [only Sent is vulnerable for the most part]

=*BH-Mags-a*=
Magneto's projectile assist isn't that great for BH in terms of combos. It's more of a don't advance along the ground while I superjump or normal jump type of thing. You'll probably want to be using Cyc with these 2. Not a good idea unless your name is Samnang and your Mags is insaine.

=Call Mags+dlk, dmk, inferno, HOD and if you have good timing it'll combo.
-Sometimes you can do a Judgement day instead of an inferno, but that's really tough.

=Side Combos=
=Mags-BH-b Unmashable [Samnang]: Call BH-b+launch, hp, Tempest, lp,lk,mp,mk, Airdash UF, lp,lk,mp,mk, Tempest, fast DHC to Armageddon. This should kill an average stamina character instantly. If not, InfernoXXHOD for final chip or sj and airthrow them.

I developed a way to pull a Yipes Mags-Storm combo with Magneto-BH.

1]Dhp. If it hits, call BH, sj hp, ad df hp, hk, dhk.
-If you did it right, the person is otg'd by the inferno, and hit by the dhk before they are sent into the forced roll.
2]Continue the combo with one of the following...
-Hypergrav into whatever you want
-Sj cancel into the Rom infinite
-Shockwave super

NOTE: These are just what I was able to pull of since my Magneto sucks. There's nothing to stop you from doing the slide infinite out of this.

-I'm adding this into the compendium.

[BlackHeartKing]

the practical stuff is so simple that it's not worth mentioning since it's usually lk, lk + assist, super combos...

bh & sent-a

cr.lk+assist, cr.lk canceled into sj canceled into airdash immediately cancelled into RH
(this will all connect and if you jump right as your opponent is touching the ground from being hit by the RH they'll bounce really high into the air allowing you to do whatever you want to them)

sent & bh-b

in corner with unflight...launch, sj.jp, sj.jp, ff.lk + assist, ff.fp, uf.lk, uf.fp, upward rp
(delayed hit from the inferno should connect after the ff.fp so that the upward rp connects)

bh & cyclops (aa)

cr.lk + assist, cr. lk, pause til second hit from connects, fp inferno
(I usually mash the fp b/c it seems to makes the delayed juggle hit from the inferno connect more often)
after they bounce on second hit...

1. timed inferno for a second hit
2. jp. rh cancelled to dash (infinite set-up)
3. launch to air combo
4. switch in another character like cable to follow up with jp.jp, jp.fp, ahvb

more to come later

[Deathfist]

the practical stuff is so simple that it's not worth mentioning since it's usually lk, lk + assist, super combos...
True, but what I'm after is a thread that encompasses both practical and trickshot combos alike.

Imagine landing a ground combo without an assist that ends in the opponent eating a proton cannon, a hailstorm, or a HSF? I have some. The problems are that I've only tested them on a Dreamcast, and they're fucking hard. I'm highly tempted to keep this quiet, but I decided not to.

=*Armageddon fast cancells*=
The Armageddon starts much faster than you think. If you can figure out the fastest DHC out timing, you can stun the person with one of BH's attacks [only a few of which will work...,], whiff an armageddon, and then BANG, they eat a hailstorm, a proton cannon, a HSF, or some other madness.

All of these are trickshots and or possibly impractical.

=Standing hk [first hit] will combo with a Hailstorm using the above trick [tested], and using the same logic, a proton cannon will as well [untested]. Don't bother with HSF in this situation. You'll be lucky for it to hit properly, and if that hapenns, the person will not be jugglable for linkage. Sometimes the person may be able to roll out of it.

=Dlk, DmP [yes this is a mp] will combo with a hailstorm, a proton cannon, or a HSF using the armageddon Fast cancell trick.
-Mid-screen only for the HSF. Knocking someone into the corner with this reduces it's hit-stun, and makes it more likely for an asteroid to hit the wrong way ruining your combo. Hail works fine, Proton cannon should work too vs cornered foes [forgotten].

=Jump back hp vs a ground dashing or standing foe, Armageddon [whiffed] will combo into all 3. This means mid-screen or with your back to the wall, a VERY careless opponent can eat a HSF, a hailstorm, or a proton cannon.

[Dasrik]

I wouldn't rely on combos off of low strong, seeing as you have to be close enough to kiss the opponent's kneecaps for that thing to connect.

[StiltMan]

If you want to hit a HSF off of BH you're as well just either going for random inferno/JD DHC into it or my weird BH/Sent/Commando DHC that nobody besides me seems to get consistently. (One of these days I really should meet up with Preppy and his video camera and demonstrate that yeah, it CAN be consistently done.)

If armageddon has a quick enough startup time that you can combo anything into a hailstorm with it, then you ought to be able to do a version of Team Combofiend's "low short of doom" with BH/IM/Sentinel as well. I personally would far rather use Team Watts than Team Blackheartfiend though. Who knows, though, it might almost be worth working with for giggles even though my Iron Man is utter poo.

The timing for my DHC with Watts is fairly simple. You basically want your opponent to drop about a Cable body length below the scoreboard off of Commando/inferno/whatever, then cancel to HSF. Once you get used to that timing and spacing it's really no more difficult than the Storm/Sentinel DHC. It's pretty much one size fits all since they'll always be at the far side of the screen. The only character that it's hard to do with Watts against is Sentinel due to the screwiness of getting Commando/inferno to hit, but if you substitute other assists like Cammy or Guile AAA for Commando it's roughly the same there. If you're doing it with HOD (which is the easiest way to do it without having to think about where on the screen you are) and you actually hit someone with demons, you probably let them get too low before you cancelled it.

[Deathfist]

If you want to hit a HSF off of BH you're as well just either going for random inferno/JD DHC into it or my weird BH/Sent/Commando DHC that nobody besides me seems to get consistently. (One of these days I really should meet up with Preppy and his video camera and demonstrate that yeah, it CAN be consistently done.)
I agree that it can be consistently done, it's just so wierd that I haven't been able to do it consistently. Actually, I did do this to someone in a tournament that I knew sucked [so there was no pressure], but I need video of it working to get it to work with any remote degree of consistency. I'm not saying that it's impossible to get down consistently [far from it actually...,] I'm just saying it's not something that can easily be put into words.

If armageddon has a quick enough startup time that you can combo anything into a hailstorm with it, then you ought to be able to do a version of Team Combofiend's "low short of doom" with BH/IM/Sentinel as well. I personally would far rather use Team Watts than Team Blackheartfiend though. Who knows, though, it might almost be worth working with for giggles even though my Iron Man is utter poo.
That's kinda what I was thinking. I'm dreaming of a BH-Storm-Sent-a. Part of the reason I figured out that this is possible is from watching and eventualy extending Samnang Koy's Magneto combo...
=Launch+Call BH, sj, hp, wait, Tempest, lp,lk,mp,mk, airdash, lp,lk,mp,mk, Tempest, DHC Armageddon. After figuring out you can go tempest Armageddon in the high air, I was curious to see if there were other methods to use it in combos.

The timing for my DHC with Watts is fairly simple. You basically want your opponent to drop about a Cable body length below the scoreboard off of Commando/inferno/whatever, then cancel to HSF. Once you get used to that timing and spacing it's really no more difficult than the Storm/Sentinel DHC. It's pretty much one size fits all since they'll always be at the far side of the screen. The only character that it's hard to do with Watts against is Sentinel due to the screwiness of getting Commando/inferno to hit, but if you substitute other assists like Cammy or Guile AAA for Commando it's roughly the same there. If you're doing it with HOD (which is the easiest way to do it without having to think about where on the screen you are) and you actually hit someone with demons, you probably let them get too low before you cancelled it.

For Sentinel, you can use an artificial corner trick. By delaying your assist call by just a nanosecond or 2, you can do something like this on him. Even at mid-screen where the problem is...

=Dlk,call Capcom, dmk, Inferno, HOD. Blackheart begins throwing the inferno alittle before the Capcom hit lands, so the person is lifted up into the inferno [which grazes them] by Capcom. You can even double-bounce some characters with it.

[StiltMan]

I agree that it can be consistently done, it's just so wierd that I haven't been able to do it consistently. Actually, I did do this to someone in a tournament that I knew sucked [so there was no pressure], but I need video of it working to get it to work with any remote degree of consistency. I'm not saying that it's impossible to get down consistently [far from it actually...,] I'm just saying it's not something that can easily be put into words.

Yeah... well, I can understand that. Let's see if I can manage to put it into words any better.

Basically, you know the first few phases. Poke into Commando on the ground or, if you want, if you manage to hit someone with sj. rh air-to-air and then land and standing short/fwd/Commando. Hit the inferno at the usual timing, HOD. That part's easy.

What will happen at this point is that the inferno will bounce them up into the air for a short straight-up arc before they begin to fall back down. They can roll on the ground but they can do nothing until they touch the ground. Basically what you're really doing here is comboing into Commando/inferno/HSF right out, and the HOD is just a whiff startup to get the drones to hit. The critical point that I always watch is where the bottom of their body falling down in the inferno column is. On the screen, the inferno after the Commando hit will bounce them up into the scoreboard on the way up, and then they'll drop back down. Cable and Magneto are my most typical measuring sticks, partly because they're also the main characters that I usually hit with it. Cable needs to drop far enough down that his feet spinning in the air upside down have just barely passed below the scoreboard. Start with that and memorize where Cable's head at the bottom of his fall is, and print it onto your brain where that horizontal level is for everyone else you do it on.

There is both good news and bad news for ease of execution of this as compared to Storm/Sentinel. The bad news has two parts. The first part is, that unlike Storm/Sentinel where you only have to momentarily watch a slight drop after a lightning storm, BH/Sentinel/Commando requires you to watch them first get carried up by the inferno and THEN drop, which is a slightly more complex sequence of physics that is further obscured by the inferno column. The other part is, the HOD rising up slightly cuts down on your margin of error for getting it right. If any of the demons of HOD hit, the DHC won't work and the HSF drones will unfailingly whiff. However, Storm/Sentinel's margin of error isn't THAT much either, so it's not just drastically harder to do, the short bounce up is ultimately trickier to account for than the HOD. The good news is, you only really have to work out the timing for one range, because Commando/inferno will always put them at full screen distance regardless ofwhere you start, so you don't have to vary anything once you've got the base distance down.

Another piece of good news is, if you do happen to get this in a corner, you can dash up and launch with Sentinel at full screen for an air combo and save yourself a third meter. You don't have to wave dash or juggle or OTG to do this. This is a function of the fact that the timing for the DHC will always drop them into the top row of drones, unlike the normally more forgiving Storm/Sentinel DHC where you might lose the launcher if you drop them into HSF too low and a lot of damage potential gets wasted. HSF/launch/short/strong/RP/fierce/rh will do roughly the same damage as HSF/fierce/RP/HSF/fierce/RP for one fewer meter. Either one of them does in the low 120s to Cable off of a straight poke... not 100% but enough damage that in most real match situations it will probably kill someone. If you're getting it off of a sj. rh it might do a little more, I haven't measured that in training mode.


That's kinda what I was thinking. I'm dreaming of a BH-Storm-Sent-a. Part of the reason I figured out that this is possible is from watching and eventualy extending Samnang Koy's Magneto combo...
=Launch+Call BH, sj, hp, wait, Tempest, lp,lk,mp,mk, airdash, lp,lk,mp,mk, Tempest, DHC Armageddon. After figuring out you can go tempest Armageddon in the high air, I was curious to see if there were other methods to use it in combos.

Yeah, that probably would work if you were high enough on the screen. Armageddon does come down pretty fast, just that I've never bothered to use it unless I've got a point blank inferno hit to work with. Doing it off of a jab inferno against airdashing opponents might also be a cute use for it, although I haven't attempted to do this in a match yet.


For Sentinel, you can use an artificial corner trick. By delaying your assist call by just a nanosecond or 2, you can do something like this on him. Even at mid-screen where the problem is...

=Dlk,call Capcom, dmk, Inferno, HOD. Blackheart begins throwing the inferno alittle before the Capcom hit lands, so the person is lifted up into the inferno [which grazes them] by Capcom. You can even double-bounce some characters with it.

Hmmmm. Yeah, BH is fairly easy to double bounce off of Commando if you throw it fast enough. Maybe I'll have to experiment a little more with Sentinel timing on it in casual play. Most of the time that I DHC into Sentinel with BH is usually more of a thing where I'll throw JD into HSF from when Sentinel is flying around too much. Usually one of those situations where they're trying to stay at full screen, so I'll call Commando and inferno/whatever. If they don't stop flying and they think they're going to wait for me to do something silly, that gets dangerous fast.

[Deathfist]

The inspiration behind the combos I posted also came from your Inferno, whiff HOD to HSF combo. I forgot to mention that.

I'll have to go to the Dreamcast to test your combo some more keeping this new stuff in mind.

If you have screwed up bad and let your assist get snapped in [and killed], perhaps some of this stuff I mentioned can save you. If some of them become easier to do that is.

As a side note, I'd laugh at someone if they were dumb enough to eat a rocketpunch at full screen in a team with BH first and Ironman second. That'd be too funny [whiffed armageddon XX Proton Cannon, HSF, dhp, rocketpunch, hsf, dhp, rocketpunch. This can be done on reaction to a rocketpunch hit at any range btw so you can guardpush someone into a rocketpunch potentially...]

On that subject, I wonder if I can do this with drones too? I'll have to test it sometime.

[BlackHeartKing]

guys you're doing things the hard way to catch sentinel in the hod to hsf

just cr.lk+commando, lk, HP thunder, hod.

the HP thunder will always connect from the assist on sent and the hod will always connect from the HP thunder. Plus you get added damage on sent as the hod keeps him at the perfect height b4 canceling to HSF

as for the BH/Ironman/sent team. I mentioned that being my new fun team a long time ago. There's all kinds of tricks and combos you can do with it.

the most basic (and damaging) combo is cr.lk+sent(a), lk, jd, cancel to proton cannon
(look at the height and distance of the opponent to know how many hits you can get from the jd b4 cancelling to pc) this does like 130 points of damage if all the JD connects first

you also have a guard break you can do on an incoming character that's proven to be very reliable to me regardles of what the oppenent does. with your characters in the order of bh/sent/iron you just...

j.jp+ironman...that's it, the j.jp will guard break them into the ironman assist. from there you can inferno, hod, cancel to hsf or not.
If they push block they usually still get caught in the ironman assist, and if you don't want to chance it you can just hod cancel to hsf and they'll come down from the pushblock right into the hsf
if they take the hit and you're quick enough, you just just quickly tap jp again and it'll combo into the ironman assist

and on another note, due to my insomnia, I've spent many late nights just messing around with combos so if anyone wants me to try something for them, just let me know. I want to actually record some of these tricks and combos with my webcam and get them online for others to see

[Deathfist]

guys you're doing things the hard way to catch sentinel in the hod to hsf

just cr.lk+commando, lk, HP thunder, hod.

the HP thunder will always connect from the assist on sent and the hod will always connect from the HP thunder. Plus you get added damage on sent as the hod keeps him at the perfect height b4 canceling to HSF

Lol, actually I forgot about that one. Sometimes I execute a tag combo to bring in Sentinel [Dlk, call Capcom, dmk, (sj cancel hk, airdash, hk, land)X2 ONLY, tag...,]. Not that I won't or haven't used that one in the past. Thanks for reminding me.
Despite the simplicity and ease of DarkthunderXXHOD off Capcom, doing this combo to someone's sentinel makes them look like an idiot.

as for the BH/Ironman/sent team. I mentioned that being my new fun team a long time ago. There's all kinds of tricks and combos you can do with it.

the most basic (and damaging) combo is cr.lk+sent(a), lk, jd, cancel to proton cannon
(look at the height and distance of the opponent to know how many hits you can get from the jd b4 cancelling to pc) this does like 130 points of damage if all the JD connects first
OUCH!!!! With damage like that, if you DHC in Sentinel, you can go dhp, rocketpunch, and forget about the next HSF. That's a kill right there!
you also have a guard break you can do on an incoming character that's proven to be very reliable to me regardles of what the oppenent does. with your characters in the order of bh/sent/iron you just...

j.jp+ironman...that's it, the j.jp will guard break them into the ironman assist. from there you can inferno, hod, cancel to hsf or not.
Do you use Ironman alpha[projectile] or beta[anti air/repulsorblast]? [personally, I prefer the unibeam]
If they push block they usually still get caught in the ironman assist, and if you don't want to chance it you can just hod cancel to hsf and they'll come down from the pushblock right into the hsf
if they take the hit and you're quick enough, you just just quickly tap jp again and it'll combo into the ironman assist

and on another note, due to my insomnia, I've spent many late nights just messing around with combos so if anyone wants me to try something for them, just let me know. I want to actually record some of these tricks and combos with my webcam and get them online for others to see
Can't wait.

[StiltMan]

The main gripe I would have about using BH/IM/Sent-A is just that your main space control assist to help BH out is IM in that case, which potentially leaves him vulnerable to getting damaged. On the other hand, if you're not planning on using IM as a character much (and I wouldn't) that might not bother you much.

poke/poke/Sent-A/JD/PC/HSF, eh? That's actually pretty nice, I should have thought of that at some point.

I knew about the lightning/HOD one, and yeah, it's pretty easy to DHC into HSF as well. I usually wind up botching this one just because the timing's different than inferno to make it hit, and it also doesn't tend to come as easily off of air-to-air hits that a lot of other things get set up by. Although the fact that I don't play nearly as often as I used to probably has something to do with it.

[Dasrik]

I really don't like BH/Sent-A teams, the main reason being the B&B won't work unless you delay the crouching forward after the crouching short. That's too much for me. Yeah, I'm a scrub ^_^

[BlackHeartKing]

I use the beta assist for ironman for the simple fact that it stay out for a long time and makes those coming over the top more cautious. There's the guard break using the beta assist and also some pretty nasty combos and crossups using the assist that I do.

Also if you're playing an msp that's giving you trouble, you can just start sent and the team gives mags and storms plenty of trouble if you know how to use sent right. As for ironman getting damaged and all stilt...that was an issue at first but then you learn the timing of everything and it makes it damn near impossible to actually damage him without getting raped for it.

The basic gameplay goes like this depending on where the enemy is...

Enemy on ground - sent and retreat with FP. You can also anticipate a ground dash and cr.lk, cr.lk to the sent assist and jd/inferno/hod (whichever you prefer). The point of this team is to not spam your assist but use it accordingly. If they're on the other side of the screen don't use your assist.

Enemy at jump height - use jumping pokes and the ironman assist. Again, don't whore your assist if they're at full screen. You should just just use the j.FP

Enemy at super jump height - this is when your options kick in. you can either time a j.fp while dashing back and calling the IM assist or call the IM assist and go under them so that they have to come down blocking. You can also anticipate the dash in the air and sj. RH with the hopes that they'll run into the demons and be in the infinite set up. At which point you can JD to PC or (if you don't have the bars) switch in IM and infinite them to PC to HOD to HSF.

This team is really ground oriented so you should avoid SJing unless it's to follow the enemy.

[StiltMan]

Yeah, BH by himself becomes the main aerial power in that team, so if he winds up getting hurt there's a strong reason to not want to get him killed, especially if they've got Storm or Cable to stall on the lead and they're any good at doing it.

I would tend to use IM mainly as a countercall if BH were in front and more liberally a bit with Sentinel, where BH does most of his own space control until an assist comes out. Although if people got too close up I might have to use him more, and then get used to the timing of doing something evil with it once it hit. You could probably hit inferno/armageddon off of that, or even just armageddon in general, and it'd probably do a ton of damage.If you were worried about the placement of the inferno column for whatever reason, jab inferno could probably cover that issue.

You can't hit poke-poke-Sent-A consistently Dasrik? Damn. Yeah, it's a little slower than poke-poke-Commando but not by that much. And it's so much minty donkey punch goodness that it's worth it if you can get used to not being able to use the drones to cover over BH's head.

I just said "minty donkey punch goodness." I'm frightened. :sweat:

[CoosCoos]

Question:

If you were to add Doom Rocks to this combo:

cr. lp, cr. lp xx sj. lp xx ad f, ad. lp, ad. lk, ad. lp, ad. lk

Would the rocks break flying screen, or would the rocks be too late for that??

[BlackHeartKing]

Question:

If you were to add Doom Rocks to this combo:

cr. lp, cr. lp xx sj. lp xx ad f, ad. lp, ad. lk, ad. lp, ad. lk

Would the rocks break flying screen, or would the rocks be too late for that??

back when I used this team consistently I used to do this combo to put people into the infinite set up When I was trying to be flashy.

It actually works best if you do cr.lp + doom, cr.lp xx sj.jp xx (ad.lk, ad.lp, ad.lk)

The part in the parenteses (spelling?) should be done fairly fast so that the fly screen places the enemy on the ground right as the rock hit them. From there you just sj (this causes them to fly hit from the rocks) with the RH and the enemy will be bouncing.

also with this team using the BH self gb that I mention early in the corner, you can do the 2nd lp + doom xx sj.lk, sj.lk, rh as you start to fall and the opponent will be bouncing in the infinite set up.

if ever you hit the opponent with a rh when they're in the air and they're bouncing and you don't have meter to punish them, you can launch + doom xx delayed sj.jp ad slight delay, air throw. The throw will throw them into the doom rock and if you rh as you're on you way down, the rh should hit the putting them into the infinite set up. This will put them right back where you hard them, but you should have half a bar more now to work with.

I really should put this stuff on video lol

[Dindo]

Stiltman is BLACKHEART!!!!!one of the bh player's i've played....

[CoosCoos]

Thanks for all of that there man, my BH/Doom's getting better because of all of that.

I do have another question for anyone who uses BH/Sent-a/Cable, or has at anytime.

If I were to connect this on someone: cr. lk + Cable, cr. lk, short pause, Inferno xx HOD,

Is there a chance where that I could DHC out to Sent and drones their ass? Or at least Plasma Storm em?

[BlackHeartKing]

Thanks for all of that there man, my BH/Doom's getting better because of all of that.

I do have another question for anyone who uses BH/Sent-a/Cable, or has at anytime.

If I were to connect this on someone: cr. lk + Cable, cr. lk, short pause, Inferno xx HOD,

Is there a chance where that I could DHC out to Sent and drones their ass? Or at least Plasma Storm em?

no prob man I'm all about helping out the fellow BH users. As for your question...

it's possible to connect that combo to the hsf but I've found that the cable aa isn't as reliable as the commando assist when setting the opponent up for a dhc into hsf. I'd say it'd be easier to actually cr.lk + sent-a, cr.lk, inferno xxx hod

from there you'd have to wait til right b4 the super blows them away to cancel to the hsf. The timing is tricky at first but the way I see it, it's no harder than connecting from the cable aa and worse case scenario is that you miss. But even if you miss, you'd still have done more damage than you would had you tried to combo from the cable aa

[StiltMan]

The other part of that is, you also have to get the inferno to life them off of the rising psimitar blade or else it's just not going to work. It probably could be done, but I don't know that I would try it because I wouldn't trust it to be very reliable. Probably the most reliable combo with that team is poke/poke/Sent-A/inferno/HOD and DHC into plasma storm. This doesn't do nearly as much damage as the one with Watts and dropping them into HSF out of Commando/inferno. It _might_ be possible to do poke/poke/Sent-A/JD into HSF, but I have strong suspicions that Sentinel doesn't have enough time to both jump out after the rocket punch and then DHC in as well. JD doesn't burn enough time for it. OTOH, if you wanted to do BH/Sent/Tron, you can do poke/poke/Tron/JD/DHC HSF just fine. That'd probably do more damage than my Watts DHC, really, but I don't know if it's really worth giving up Tron for Commando on that. I might try it out, though.

I'm going to be headed to the bay area in the very near future, so once I find where the good arcades are there I'll have plenty of chances to test.

[CoosCoos]

Thank you for the replies again guys.

BH/Sent/Tron??? Does that team work well? I'd try it out, but I know I have a horrid Sent/Tron.

By the way Stilt, thanks for that detailed explination of the Watts DHC. I pull it off 100% of the time now.

[BlackHeartKing]

funny that bh/sent/tron would be mentioned. I started using this team again recently just for a change of pace.

You have to have a whole lotta patience with this team and the ability to take a major loss of life from chip damage against cable and sent and sometimes storm, without getting desperate and making a mistake. long as you zone the opponent into the corner well, you can usually catch them in a mistake which equals death. Just know how to use tron assist plus demons to keep the assist they might try to counter you with from ever having a roll in the match.

As for cancelling to the HSF from sent-a xxx jd...you have to do the jd at the last second to where it'll still combo in order to cancel to hsf right b4 the jd finishes, and even then the opponent will sometimes fly up and over the hsf when you cancel supers.

Hey stilt, any chance you'll be coming to the south bay area...or better yet, the UCLA area?

[StiltMan]

Well, I'm going to be working in the east bay and most likely living either there or on the north bay. (North bay is pretty, I would like it there and wouldn't care about the commute for that if I could find something good.) Either one is a long, long ways from LA, and I'm probably going to like it that way. You can take me out of the Pacific NW, but you can't take the Pacific NW out of me (thus why I will probably want to settle somewhere in the north bay area if I can) -- LA is just way too much scorching hot, sprawled urbanization gone mad for my tastes. It is probably telling that the last time I was in LA, my principal inspiration from it when I got home was to feature a hell sphere in my fantasy storylines where the entire plane of existence was one humongous sprawled out jam packed cityscape gone all wrong and wretched. I really dislike LA that much. You might get me down there for SIGGRAPH and/or Evo, and that's about it.

[thebluebomber]

Hey there guys. I'm a newb Sent BH player and would like to at least get down the basics of the two. My team right now is BH/Sent/Cyclops in that order. I win every now and then, but it normally is just because my opponent messes up and I get a solid DHC in.

From reading your guy's posts it sounds like poke/poke/sent drones into judgement day is blackheart's main auto super that I should be retaliating with when I see an opening? If so, is the first poke simultaneous with the calling of sent's ground assist? I can never seem to connect this.

Another problem I notice is that I build very little meter compared to my opponent and just can't keep up with all his supers most the time. What's the best way (and safest) to build meter with BH on point?

Last question would be how do you do the BH infinite from cyclops? From seeing a couple of peolpe play and asking around cyclops is one of the better ways to start it, but I can never get it going. I think I might have the wrong idea of what it really is. I had the impression that once the opponent is bouncing from rh demons that you super jump, rh demons, air dash back xx rh demons [repeat]. Am I doing it wrong? But most importantly, how do you guys start it with cyclops and keep it going? (And Stilt, I did fail you "does your BH suck" test, but then again I've only been playing with him for about a week now).

Any response (or vids if you know of any) would be greatly appreciated! There's a local tourney coming up on the 15th and I'd like to play BH/Sent/Cyclops for the trump card. Thanks guys!

[CoosCoos]

Exactly which questions of the litmus did you fail? Well anywho.....

I play this team sometimes for a change of pace. The thing is though, Cyke is a more horizontal assist, thus you will have to taylor yourself a bit to a more offensive style, so that you can take advantage of the blockstun and the like.

To start the infinite with BH/Cyke with a ground poke, just do this:

cr. lk + cyke, cr. lk xx sj. hk xx ad b, ad. hk.

To do the super jump after the last cr. lk, you must put the stick into neutral first. Also, as soon as you take to the air, hit hk. It takes a little timing, but you'll get used to it.

Just because you have Cyke, do not forget that you have a nasty DHC that you need to hit someone with. It will greatly increase your chances of winning. Also, Sent/Cyke has some very stupid easy mode damage combos without even fast flying. For example:

Launch + Cyke, sj. fp, Cyke hits, lp rp.

Let's just say, it hurts, and you nail it off of a DHC, it hurts worse.

This is just some general stuff with this team though, I haven't played it recently, so I can't really give you any insight as to what you need to do with them, but that's a start at least. I hope it helps you in any way.

[thebluebomber]

Thanks CoosCoos. I have accidentally started the infin with the crouching pokes, I just didn't know exactly what happened to make it go off. So you are saying that after I call cyke with the pokes, let go of the stick then [super jump into rh demons, air dash back with demons], repeat brackets? I've seen some just land in front of the bouncing opponent and then just jump straight up and down, and on some lighter characters they empty normal jump then normal jump demons. Is this possible, or am I seeing things?

Thanks again for your help, it is much needed and appreciated! Oh and I failed all but the one talking about random sj. rh demons and the one about "his only good moves are rh. demons and infernoxxHOD".... So that is pretty much a fail IMHO. All is good though! Thanks again!

[CoosCoos]

Thanks CoosCoos. I have accidentally started the infin with the crouching pokes, I just didn't know exactly what happened to make it go off. So you are saying that after I call cyke with the pokes, let go of the stick then [super jump into rh demons, air dash back with demons], repeat brackets? I've seen some just land in front of the bouncing opponent and then just jump straight up and down, and on some lighter characters they empty normal jump then normal jump demons. Is this possible, or am I seeing things?

Thanks again for your help, it is much needed and appreciated! Oh and I failed all but the one talking about random sj. rh demons and the one about "his only good moves are rh. demons and infernoxxHOD".... So that is pretty much a fail IMHO. All is good though! Thanks again!

Well you call Cyke when you press the first lk, and then hit the second lk, then let go of the stick for a split second, then do down, up, hk, then right after that, press the punches then hk for the air dashed hk piggies. Don't worry about normal jump stuff. Just do it the same way. As an added bonus, if your timing is good, you can go for a reset of the whole thing, starting from the cr. lk.

I also recommend you try out BH/Cable/Cyke, or BH/Storm/Cyke. Maybe they'll help in understanding the duo a lot more, as it will teach you what the infinite does for different people, and give Team Watts a try (BH/Sent/Commando). Watts is like a poor man's thrax, which poke/poke/commando/DHC should equal death, and then you have two very good zoning assist to work with, with Sent in the lead and a character or two dead.

Anywho, I hope this helps as well, and you're welcome for the other stuff.

[thebluebomber]

Team Watts [BH/Sent/Capcom?] is cool and all, I just like Cyclops for flavor. I know this may not be a better team or one that is as good, it's just different. And yeah, your advice is helping! :-) Thanks.

Quick question though, what is the best approach to take when playing against a rush down player with my team [BH/Sent/Cyke]? From the sounds of it I should be using BH against the Mags, but I don't know how to effectively take out the rushing characters. Is it just pokes and assists into DHC's or what? From my personal experience, the rush down wins (around here anyway) not because the player is so good that you can't stop him, but rather that there is just so much crap going on that the defending player can't keep up with the rush down speed and assists. Any ways, any advice as on how to approach rush down would be greatly appreciated! Thanks again guys...

[TS]

I play BH with weird assists, but a few basic notes:

Combo into Judgement Day (flying pig super) on the ground does OK damage, and DHCs pretty well (depending on your team). If you have a single-hit assist, you might want to try to go right into the JD instead of Inferno xx Heart of Darkness.

Ex. with Colossus AAA you can do crouching Short, Forward+assist (IIRC), xx JD. You recover at about the same time as the opponent if you DHC, so you can't combo afterward. Also works with Guile AAA, Charlie, etc.

There was some Inferno xx Armageddon (meteor super), that ended low enough for me to combo afterward with standing Jab (and, so you could probably combo another super afterward), but I forget how it went. Was using Charlie AAA, I think...standing Forward+assist, Jab Inferno xx Armageddon?

Speaking of Charlie, you can do crouching Short, standing Forward+assist xx sj Roundhouse into infinite. If they're crouching, you can use crouching Strong instead, as Charlie's AAA will whiff vs crouching opponents (I think the combo works with Guile AAA too, which doesn't have that problem).

[Dasrik]

Combos after Armageddon are very doable, but unfortunately inconsistent due to the random nature of the super. If you can catch them with a jab in mid-air, it can be comboed into his launcher, which goes neatly into an Inferno into another Armageddon.

[CoosCoos]

Team Watts [BH/Sent/Capcom?] is cool and all, I just like Cyclops for flavor. I know this may not be a better team or one that is as good, it's just different. And yeah, your advice is helping! :-) Thanks.

Quick question though, what is the best approach to take when playing against a rush down player with my team [BH/Sent/Cyke]? From the sounds of it I should be using BH against the Mags, but I don't know how to effectively take out the rushing characters. Is it just pokes and assists into DHC's or what? From my personal experience, the rush down wins (around here anyway) not because the player is so good that you can't stop him, but rather that there is just so much crap going on that the defending player can't keep up with the rush down speed and assists. Any ways, any advice as on how to approach rush down would be greatly appreciated! Thanks again guys...

Remember that you do have Sent/Cyke. Also, remember that Cyke leaves someone in blockstun. Whenever you get your opponent to block Cyke, then you have a free lockdown pattern with Sent with flying and stomping a lot. Also, remember that with Blackheart, you need to be normal jumping and going back a lot. Also, you're going to have to condition your opponent to do certain things with Blackheart.

For example, you're doing normal jump back fierce, and your opponent decides that he wants to come at you on the ground. The second you see him dashing to you, you call Sent, wee he runs into drones, and so he thinks twice about going on the ground to you. So, he has to now take to the air probably to get to you, which then you have a big advantage, so that you have many more options to kill his ass off.

The key to stopping rushdown with that team, is to identify the space that your opponent is rushing in on you at first, then you take that space away. This will force your opponent eventually to come on at an angle which is advantagous for you to get big damage in. Also, remember that just because you have Cyke, you don't have to go for the infinite. I would say that if you get someone in the air with hk demons, then do it. Also, when you have Sent out, with this team, you have a good option of zone offense, because you have the offensive(yes OFFENSE, fuck defense, you get a nigga in blockstun it's stomp stomp revolution bitch!) assist in cyke, and a zoning and defensive one with Blackheart.

This is some stuff that could come helpful to you as you play rushdown teams with this team. By the way, do you know how to trap with Sent/BH? If not, practice it. You can also lockdown with this duo as well. Try to work on these things, because the more you restrict someone's movement with that team, but greater your chance of taking the win.

I hope this helps.

[myleftshoe]

in the corner: c.lk,c.mp, judgement day

What kind of combos do u do w/out assists?

I just don't play BH that much

[CoosCoos]

in the corner: c.lk,c.mp, judgement day

What kind of combos do u do w/out assists?

I just don't play BH that much

Well there's some stuff BH can do. There's:

Launch, sj. lp, sj. lk, sj. lp xx ad. f xx ad. lp, (ad. lk, ad. lk or ad. lk, throw).

That will cause fly screen and such, or you can throw.

(Launch or on a dummy doing something in the air), sj. lp xx ad. f, hp throw.

If you're interested in playing BH, then you NEED to learn how to do this.

cr. lp, cr. lp xx sj. lp xx ad. f, ad. lp, ad. lk, ad. lp, ad. lk.

The "wooo hooo I'm a pixie character that can super jump cancel" thing. Remember after the second cr. lp to put the stick into neutral right away, and then super jump.

cr. lk, st. hk xx HOD/Judgement Day.

Easy link to HOD or Judgement Day. By all means with JD, DHC and wreck something.

There's some stuff to get you started though.

Hope this helps.

[Sentinel_Cheese]

whats the timing on that cr.lp cr.mp xx sj.lp combo i cant seem to get the super jump out i'll try the netural thing and then see what i get but other than that i cant get it please help me out with that cooscoos thanks peace.

[BlackHeartKing]

anytime I'm comboing someone in the corner (assist or no assist) a use HOD as my super of choice (simple cr.lk, s.hod) b/c from there you can do 1 of 3 things...

1) j.jp or j.lk as they on their way down...with proper timing, the j.lk after the j.jp/j.lk can be hard to block b/c it'll be a 50/50 chance of hitting high and low

2) standing rh as they're on their way down, so that they bounce but stay standing. From there I j.lk, j.lk, s.rh repeatedly until they...
a)die
b)manage to mass out and still block (not easy to do)
c)mash out only to get combo'd by the j/lk's in which case you just cancel to another hod

3) Launch them as they're on there way down from the super and as they come down from the launch, you jump and air throw them (this is only for an opponent that's overly defensive) (usually gets an OOOHHH outta people that might be watching =P

[StiltMan]

anytime I'm comboing someone in the corner (assist or no assist) a use HOD as my super of choice (simple cr.lk, s.hod) b/c from there you can do 1 of 3 things...

1) j.jp or j.lk as they on their way down...with proper timing, the j.lk after the j.jp/j.lk can be hard to block b/c it'll be a 50/50 chance of hitting high and low

I do this sometimes in a lot of situations. BH is not unlike what people used to complain about with Spider-Man for air chains.


2) standing rh as they're on their way down, so that they bounce but stay standing. From there I j.lk, j.lk, s.rh repeatedly until they...
a)die
b)manage to mass out and still block (not easy to do)
c)mash out only to get combo'd by the j/lk's in which case you just cancel to another hod

I do this one sometimes too, although you have to be careful with it because it's easier to mash out than you might think at first. Nobody in Portland ever fell for it any more by the time I moved. Maybe people in the bay area won't know any better.


3) Launch them as they're on there way down from the super and as they come down from the launch, you jump and air throw them (this is only for an opponent that's overly defensive) (usually gets an OOOHHH outta people that might be watching =P

Probably a bit needlessly cute, though.

[joe doe]

Hey guys it has been ages... Still glad that the blackheart thread is still alive. and to my surprise i see newcomer interested in blackheart.

[CoosCoos]

Hey Stilt, I just saw some of the footage of the Fairfield Tourney.

I wanted to get your thoughts on your play throughout your matches and your 5th place finish.

Plus, can you give me the differences between Watts and BH/Sent/Cyke?

[StiltMan]

Funny you should mention this, because I just posted a long thread last night. But I'll get rid of that one and retype most of my thoughts here. I was a little rusty and didn't show good judgment at all points in this tournament, in ways that make me really irked at myself in a few cases. All in all, though, it was a decent approximation of what my Watts can do, and a somewhat decent reminder to me that my team management judgment is not real good after not having practiced regularly for so long.

Against KiLLaKeLLY

First off, I need to rethink my first-attack-glitch defense against people, because I got nailed with the launcher in both games because I was jumping straight up. I probably should modify this to crouching block and call Sentinel instead of jumping up and call Sentinel. If he'd had a solid infinite-into-DHC execution I could have lost BH for giggles in both games.

This match is also a very strong statement for why I will never like Cyclops for BH as much as Commando. How many times did I get a hit with BH sj rh and convert into some sort of combo in this match? Plenty. How many of those would have worked if I'd had Cyclops? Well, the ones next to the ground might have still worked, but the best ones are the ones where they're still bouncing in the air. If you've got Cyclops, you pretty much have to wait for them to get to the ground or the juggle into things will almost always whiff; with Commando, you don't care. That's a lot of damage, a lot of offense, and a lot of space control that you leave on the table if you take Cyclops over Commando, and for what? A really crappy infinite? Not at all worth it.

With Commando, any sj. rh hit that they don't mash out of is a standing series of pokes into the combo of your choice. Note that every time I hit with a st. rh in this match, I did a standing poke even if they were on the ground. This combo will work every time.

Also, Kelly had the misfortune of becoming my first tournament DHC victim with this team in game 2. Fair demonstration of how much it can break a game. Assuming for the moment that he hadn't just completely lost his Iron Man for fun, this is still a real match with Cable/Cyclops against Watts. When his Cable walks into a rh (which, realistically, he is not going to mash out of before I can get to him much) into a two meter DHC in the corner? He's at full life coming in, and he's got 5% left when it's done. If I'd successfully converted the unblockable I was attempting afterwards, that's 100%. As it was, it completely ruined what was left of his team even though I ate a lot of redbar to put Sentinel in, and nobody really has much business coming back on Sent/BH/Commando with a team that's that mangled if you don't hand it to them. Tell me why this combo isn't worth as much as Storm/Sentinel, again? :looney:

Against Mikey R

Okay, for some reason Mikey decided to use Watts in a mirror match in the first game. I don't know if I've ever actually seen another video of two people using Watts in a mirror match, so this is something worth cherishing a little.

My thoughts on Mikey's Watts go about like this: I think Mikey plays Watts as a casual team that he uses to screw around against people who aren't particularly good, and if he runs into someone that doesn't get thrown off by his BH then he expects to save it with his excellent Sentinel/Commando (which is probably his best character-and-assist pairing). I suspect he didn't take me very seriously as an opponent at first and probably thought that he could get away with this as a sort of veiled insult. On the other hand, he did win the match but he probably shouldn't have, because I pretty much gave it to him on a platter.

Upon looking at the video more, I have to say that my initial impression based on my immediate memory of playing against his BH was probably a little harsh (I characterized it in my after-tournament novel as "um... awful"), and was formed somewhat by the fact that he seemed a little off balance when he was on point, he was off point very quickly, and then he got him killed so egregiously as an assist. He obviously knew how to use BH's pokes to a fair degree, but he didn't seem to be terribly accurate in where he was throwing his demons around, didn't seem to use sj. fierce or realize that you shouldn't chase another BH through the air after he throws one, and didn't seem real sure of where or when to avoid a well placed Commando. Once his BH was off point, he seemed to rely a lot more on Commando and didn't have a very good grasp of when to call BH (whose assist is very good for keeping people from using the air much) and when not to (such as throwing him in as a completely unremarkable addition to a fierce/RP for block damage against another Sentinel, which -- if that's all you're doing -- is a very good way to get your BH killed, which is exactly what happened).

Now... I believe I said something funny in the previous bit about how nobody has much business coming back on Sent/BH/Commando with a ruined team if you don't hand to them. Well, game 2 was a wonderful example of handing it to them. It starts off as a very good illustration of how to fight Team Scrub with Team Watts (read: Mikey is widely known not to be a bad player, and this fight obviously was mine for the taking), and ends with me frankly pissed off at myself, seeing the lifebars after his Cable died and knowing that I manged to lose that game anyway. That's a simple matter of bad tournament judgment on my part out of sheer rust in playing against good players. What I should have done was sat on the lead like I did in the first game and take minimal risks with Sentinel, and if my Sentinel dies before his then I sit on him with BH as well. What I actually did was... well, bad. There was absolutely no need at all to tag BH in like that, and it left me off balance for the rest of the game. There was also no need to actually take to the air with Sentinel and run into pokes and Commando as much as I did. Sentinel in this situation can very nicely let the game come to him and react and zone, and there's not a whole lot most any mangled point character with one assist can do about it when you're ahead. I'm going to be remembering this game next tournament as a reminder to close matches out better than this, because if I don't give this to him for free this match is a 2-0 sweep.

Game 3... no comment. I have not adapted to Fairfield's sticks well with my Cable at all and I knew it going into the tournament. Cable, in most arcades, is my best character. Not this one. That's why I hadn't used Cable before this and it's why I didn't use him again. It was a mistake to try it here, I should've stayed with Watts and patched up the mistakes I made in the second game instead of trying something completely different that I knew probably wasn't going to work with the way I'm executing with Cable lately on that machine.

Against Larry S

This match got played within minutes of the previous one, and I was frankly still a little upset at myself over how that had gone. I played off balance from start to finish. Also, it's not a bad argument for getting myself used to doing the DHC with armageddon instead of HOD in the middle of the screen, because otherwise Storm is very hard to do it on properly. Magneto and Cable, no problem. Storm and other pixies, harder to do, at least for me. I'm frankly not even sure why the hell I started BH in the second game, because my usual playbook on Watts versus Santhrax is to start Sentinel. Wasn't in very good focus and it kind of showed. I still put up a good fight regardless, but this could have gone a bit better. Bad judgment once again in tagging BH again.... I really don't understand why I kept trying to do that, because Watts isn't exactly short of DHCs or counters that are just fine for getting him in.

There's going to be a lot of sitting down and staring at these and reminding myself not to do some of the stupid mistakes I did. Two years ago, I don't do a lot of these things. But two years ago I was playing tournaments in Seattle once a month and supplementing it with ones in Portland as well; since then there's been one in Portland maybe once every few months and very little regular practice. I look at videos from a few years ago as compared to this, and it's just shocking to me how much smarter I was then against good opposition.

But... oh well. I've got money again, I can start practicing more again, and hopefully I'll stop doing some of these things and managing my teams a lot better. These videos are an example of what I could be doing and a statement that I need to shake off a lot of rust.

[StiltMan]

Well? Nobody has anything to say? :confused:

[CoosCoos]

As promised, I have edited this post.

Keep in mind though, I'm gonna ask a lot of questions and stuff and give some analysis and crap. But here goes.

vs. KillaKelly

The first match was way too easy. It would have been a little more difficult if he had any kind of Doom. Matter of fact, if I were him, I would have probably started Doom instead of IM in this case just because of BH. It would have still been a tough fight, but at least it would have given him a little bit of a chance.

The first part of the second match was luck city. Having seen some of KillaKelly's footage before, had he hit that solo infinite set up on you, it would be curtains for the whole team. But he didn't. This match showed he blocked a lot more than the last one, however, he still seemed to not know how to fight Watts. I don't get why he did not just stay with Cable and make that very dumb tag midmatch like that. It lead to him losing two characters in the end.

Now I got to see your Sent in action. I'm going to assume that you hadn't gotten accustomed to the sticks yet. It seemed to me that you did to much fk drones in that match. Other than that, I thought this was really solid.

vs. Mike Ross

This is probably where most of the critique will come from, as there were some things I had questions about in this set.

First things first, I wholeheartedly agree that Mike Ross has a way better Sent/Cap then you. It was very apparent during the first match. If it hadn't had been for him doing that very random spit + BH, he probably would have won the match with his solid Sent play. This is not taking anything away from you, because you totally regained control back in the match, but it was apparent that after this first match, it was going to be a dogfight.

The second match, you absolutely should have won that. To me, you lost the match with the blind tag in with BH. Add that ill advised Cap call, and it was curtains. You could have comeback though IMO. It would have taken a lot of work though, and lot of stomping.

The last match, I have to ask, why didn't you stay with Watts? You fought the last match well, and then when you went to Cable/BH/Capcom, I was like, what is he thinking? His Sent had his way with your Cable. When you punished his Cap assist with the AHVB, you really really should have DHC'ed BH in. That way, you could have at least ran away and had Cable in reserve if you did mess up again. But because of that, it led to Cable knocked out, and half of BH's life gone. Also, if Mike Ross had been paying attention, when you threw that empty Inferno, he really should have shot you, and then that lead to the match being over.

This set showed, that there were mistakes from both of you, it's just that he capitalized just a little better this time.

vs. Larry S.

You start this first match really well. You hurt two of his chracters really early on. But you kept doing the cr. hk xx rp with Sent. Don't ever do that. It is very rollable. You had this under control until his Sent came in. A very blind tag in with BH lead to some life off, and a very nice combo on a vulnerable Cap did him in. The rest is history.

Second match, you got baited quite a lot in the start. I felt that if he knocked out your godly BH, and got his Sent in with the lead, this match is over. And basically , even though it didn't quite happen that way, it happened eventually, leading to the loss.

Well to sum it all up from what I saw. You can fight Cables well, I don't know about Magnuses cause you didn't face any in the videos, but Storm and Sentinel give you major problems, as they do for everybody. The last two matches showed where people's Sent's are compared to where yours is at. So you have an awful lot of work ahead of you with your Sent. This is my opinion, but he's the weakest part of your Watts. But that's just me and all. Some things to keep in mind with your Sent:

-Get rid of the cr. hk xx rp like I said earlier. It is rollable and mostly unsafe.
-Add some stomp patterns to your arsenal. All Sents have to have stomp patterns, no matter the team.
-Get into the habit of mixing up the Sent/BH lockdown more by doing spit + BH xx fly forward hp xx unfly xx dash somewhere, or something else. You can't just rely on spit + BH drones(specially hk drones, which should be used once per match IMO), and you need to sometimes make it seem like you're going to start a stomp pattern and stuff to help bait assists.

That's just some general stuff though. I'm sure you will rectify it in the future. If I can, I'm gonna try and get some footage of me playing Watts to be critiqued and all. Stilt, if you are not far from Salinas, I suggest you talk to some of their crew and play with them. I think it will help you a lot.

But anywho, I hope this helps in anyway. And finally ending this long thing.

[CoosCoos]

Above post has been edited.

[StiltMan]

As promised, I have edited this post.

Keep in mind though, I'm gonna ask a lot of questions and stuff and give some analysis and crap. But here goes.


Fair enough.


vs. KillaKelly

The first match was way too easy. It would have been a little more difficult if he had any kind of Doom. Matter of fact, if I were him, I would have probably started Doom instead of IM in this case just because of BH. It would have still been a tough fight, but at least it would have given him a little bit of a chance.


This is one reason why I found myself honestly wondering after the first game if he was actually trying. Yes, BH/Sent/Commando is perfectly capable of ruining an IM team of any sort, and I think BH is a lot better than people give him credit for... but all the same, I was not expecting to pull off an OCV against IM/Cable/Doom. That's the kind of fight where I usually plan to have to frustrate IM into mistakes, keep the distance open, and figure on bailing BH out by hopefully getting the DHC on Cable. The kind of wipeout that I dealt out was not expected at all. I probably could have cheerfully double-OCVed him with BH if I hadn't felt like doing the DHC on Cable in the second game.


The first part of the second match was luck city. Having seen some of KillaKelly's footage before, had he hit that solo infinite set up on you, it would be curtains for the whole team. But he didn't. This match showed he blocked a lot more than the last one, however, he still seemed to not know how to fight Watts. I don't get why he did not just stay with Cable and make that very dumb tag midmatch like that. It lead to him losing two characters in the end.


Yeah, getting launched in both games was a bit of a prayer on my part. I can only assume he either isn't very good at it or he wasn't expecting that to hit and didn't react in time. I usually don't wind up eating very many guard breaks though, so it's not like this game was going to be over for that. If he had killed my BH though, you would have seen a very different set of tactics from my Sentinel. And this leads me to your next point rather nicely...


Now I got to see your Sent in action. I'm going to assume that you hadn't gotten accustomed to the sticks yet. It seemed to me that you did to much fk drones in that match. Other than that, I thought this was really solid.


Actually, that's about what my Sentinel on Watts usually looks like. Maybe not quite as crisp, but when I'm playing Watts, my Sentinel is usually pretty conservative, especially if he's come in after a DHC with a prohibitive lead.

I'll comment more on this in the Mikey R matchup. (note: it's Mikey Rhasphone, not Mike Ross.)


vs. Mike Ross

This is probably where most of the critique will come from, as there were some things I had questions about in this set.

First things first, I wholeheartedly agree that Mike Ross has a way better Sent/Cap then you. It was very apparent during the first match. If it hadn't had been for him doing that very random spit + BH, he probably would have won the match with his solid Sent play. This is not taking anything away from you, because you totally regained control back in the match, but it was apparent that after this first match, it was going to be a dogfight.

Well, here's where I'll take issue a bit with the analysis. When I play Sentinel on Watts, I don't play it the way you might expect from most Sent/Commando tactics at all. Yes, Mikey plays a very good, fierce Sent/Commando, and it's very dangerous. Heck, when I don't have BH around, I play my Sentinel a little closer to the more typical Sent/Commando myself. However, that's not what you see here, for a very simple reason: I'm not even attempting to play a typical Sent/Commando here. I'm not quite sure how to articulate it, but ultimately the general idea is that I don't see a point in risking Sentinel's body to assert Commando's presence at close range when I can assert the same presence from full screen with BH. Then if they can manage to get around that, then I'll assert Commando's presence.

I think Drew-Dub probably said it in the way that I still consider my favorite: "you do more from half to full screen than any other Sentinel I've ever seen." It's this general philosophy that has given rise to my self-deprecating caption where I ask rhetorically like I'm not aware that I can actually move forward. Because with Sent/BH, I, uh... don't much. :sweat:

The end result of this is a very different Sentinel philosophy that looks very different from what you normally see, and often causes people to think that I'm not very good with Sentinel because they don't see the typical stomp patterns out of me. Instead, most of my damage tends to come from fierce, BH, drones, keep-out pokes, and mixing in the occasional dashing strike or unblockable that throws someone for a loop and mangles someone when they're not expecting it. It's not even the same tactics I use when I'm playing Sent/Commando without BH myself, which are quite a bit more aggressive typically than what I do when I do have BH. I don't often get as uncorked aggro as Mikey does by any means. When I do that, it's usually either because (a) I'm doing it as a conscious tactic because I think someone has gotten a little too comfortable with the slow pace I usually set, or (b) I've lost BH for pocket change and Sentinel has to go into "ZOMG!DESTROYLOL" mode to come back when he only has Commando left behind him.

At any rate (tm), what I'm really trying to say is, don't judge my Sentinel too much just because it seems I'm not doing what you expect from other Sent/Commando. Remember... I did win the game, and if Mikey had tried the same team again, I probably would have won again. And I think he realized that, because he didn't try it twice.


The second match, you absolutely should have won that. To me, you lost the match with the blind tag in with BH. Add that ill advised Cap call, and it was curtains. You could have comeback though IMO. It would have taken a lot of work though, and lot of stomping.


This much is accurate. Ultimately, what I did was fail to close. I should have just hung back and sat on the lead with Sentinel, and if he managed to get through Sentinel just run the lugnut into the ground and let BH come in and finish him off. Instead, I wound up playing it way too aggressive with Sentinel after his Sentinel came back in, when sitting back on the lead probably would have ruined him, and then once I got low on Sentinel's life I tagged in BH for no reason at all. I should have just run each character into the ground in order and burned the clock. He probably would have gotten his Sentinel killed on Commando hits alone trying to come back.


The last match, I have to ask, why didn't you stay with Watts? You fought the last match well, and then when you went to Cable/BH/Capcom, I was like, what is he thinking?


Well... there actually was some half intelligent thinking behind this. Namely, Cable/BH/Commando is often a straight counter to Team Scrub. As little as you can move safely on Sent/BH/Commando, it's usually that much uglier with Cable/BH/Commando, and it's very hard to keep after that team if it's played right without getting either the point character, the assist character, or both of them killed. When my Cable is in practice on this team, it is not unusual at all for me to put up OCVs against Team Scrubs with it. In fact, at Evo 2k2 I played against about three or four different people who used Team Scrub on me with this team. I won every single game with that matchup and only failed to OCV them once.

However, as you can see rather plainly, my Cable had a lot of rust on the gears and wasn't comfortable on those sticks at all. I hadn't played that team at all since I left Portland and my Cable would have been awful that day no matter what team I used -- which is why, even though in the NW Cable was widely known as perhaps my best character, I hadn't been using it in the tournament to that point at all. I probably shouldn't have even tried it, but the instinct to use the counter-to-the-counter was strong enough that I couldn't resist.

I probably should put some time on this team at the arcade before the next tournament. Either that or Team Scrub starting Cable. One way or the other, it's a nice weapon to have against Sent/turtle/Commando teams that manage to get past my Sent/BH tactics, and has been for years, which is why I still use it. Even against other teams, people either usually know how to fight it or they don't, and if Cable doesn't wilt like he did there, usually it's a "don't". Seeing how Mikey did against Cableguy later in the tournament, this is another area where I'm irked at myself, because my Cable used to look like that too.


vs. Larry S.

You start this first match really well. You hurt two of his chracters really early on. But you kept doing the cr. hk xx rp with Sent. Don't ever do that. It is very rollable.

Um, no. cr. rh for two hits into jab RP is not rollable at all. It's only rollable if the cr. rh hits all three hits. I do it because a lot of people see the windup to the cr. rh, which looks a lot like a cr. short early on, and they think it's safe after the first instant or so and often don't block the rest of it.

You had this under control until his Sent came in. A very blind tag in with BH lead to some life off, and a very nice combo on a vulnerable Cap did him in. The rest is history.

Yup. Blind tags with BH killed me in this tournament. This is why I was saying I didn't feel like I showed very good judgment in team management. I know better than that, and I did it anyway. Killed me against Mikey, and killed me against Larry too.

Second match, you got baited quite a lot in the start. I felt that if he knocked out your godly BH, and got his Sent in with the lead, this match is over. And basically , even though it didn't quite happen that way, it happened eventually, leading to the loss.

This match probably was over when I failed to convert the DHC on his Storm. If I do that right, his Storm is dead and my Sentinel is sitting on a lead. I didn't.

Well to sum it all up from what I saw. You can fight Cables well,

In all honesty, I still haven't seen a California Cable that's as good as the ones I've seen in the NW. Seattle and Portland never bought into the idea that Cable got owned by rushdown, and simply adapted instead. So when I'm playing both with and against Cable with California opposition, I usually find myself having a much easier time than I would in the NW. I probably would get away with playing Watts on most any California Cable player short of Randy Lew just fine.

I don't know about Magnuses cause you didn't face any in the videos, but Storm and Sentinel give you major problems, as they do for everybody. The last two matches showed where people's Sent's are compared to where yours is at. So you have an awful lot of work ahead of you with your Sent. This is my opinion, but he's the weakest part of your Watts. But that's just me and all.

Yeah, it is just you. The video where I OCVed Woomighty in our first game with my Sentinel starting against his Santhrax was missing from the ones posted. :sad:


Some things to keep in mind with your Sent:

-Get rid of the cr. hk xx rp like I said earlier. It is rollable and mostly unsafe.

Already answered this. It is not rollable, and it's only unsafe in that if they've got an invulnerable AAA you've got more time to get hit with it. However, it goes right through Commando.


-Add some stomp patterns to your arsenal. All Sents have to have stomp patterns, no matter the team.

Not on Watts, they don't. Not as a primary part of the arsenal. If I had been playing something other than Watts you'd have seen more of this, but I wasn't, so...


-Get into the habit of mixing up the Sent/BH lockdown more by doing spit + BH xx fly forward hp xx unfly xx dash somewhere, or something else. You can't just rely on spit + BH drones(specially hk drones, which should be used once per match IMO), and you need to sometimes make it seem like you're going to start a stomp pattern and stuff to help bait assists.

Well, it wouldn't hurt to mix up Sent/BH lockdown to some degree, but the time to do it is right after I've already done fierce/BH/HSF after a setup. I have a pattern I tend to do which is pretty much devised as a pure frustration and lockdown where I'll set up some form of aerial poke or frying pan, call BH, land, back away to full screen, and fierce/HSF. If they haven't guard cancelled out of it (and BH often screws that up) then I'll do fierce/BH/drones right after that, followed by an additional fly cancelled fierce. When I'm mixing in the roundhouse drones it's usually after I've already established the fierce/BH/short drones, and I'm doing it to (a) check if they're awake, and (b) see if they know how to get out of it. If they're not awake, they often don't react to the slower drones coming when they expect the faster ones, and the cr. fierce that comes after it will lock them down until the bombs drop. And if they just don't know how to get out of it, then this is good to know too, because the bombs do about three times as much chip damage as the short drones do. What I do then is a little more open ended.

What I could do is, after the fierce/HSF setup when I'm free to call BH again, I could mix in an attack with Commando or I could do as many as several cr. fierces without calling BH before I actually do call BH, to leave them wondering how long it's going to be before the inferno's going to come. They'll know it's coming, but when? This both plays on the frustration and mind games of the regular vanilla lockdown once it's already established, and might get you a few hits because they super jump at the wrong time and run into BH on the way up, or they wildly go after you thinking they've finally got an opening only to run into Commando when they get there. Lots of mind games that can go into this that I don't often employ.

However, doing fierce/BH/fly forward and attack is a very bad idea on many, many levels. BH is not Mag-A out there. He's slower to release, slower to recover, slower to get out, and a bigger target you have to protect. If you try rushing immediately after you throw him out there, you're left with a good three or four second window where you can't call another assist because you've still got this big ugly demon with bad hair gesturing at the ground back there. There are a lot of different things that can happen depending on who you're up against, most of them are bad, and the good ones aren't better for you than the bad ones are for them.

Just at a rough tear...

-- another Sentinel will probably do to your BH exactly what I did to Mikey's.

-- Cable will shoot you both.

-- Storm will call an AAA to clear Sentinel away while she throws typhoon/hail at BH across the screen. Cyclops is good for this.

-- Magneto and Strider are more limited in what they can do to punish anything, but these are still characters that you want to keep at a distance that you're now attacking head on and can't call another assist against for several seconds, when you don't have to.

If you're going to attack, you're not gaining that much by calling BH to force them to sit there while you come in as compared to the risk you're taking positionally and possibly tactically on the way. If you're going to play Sent/BH with tactics that are better suited to Sent/Commando, then you may as well actually use Sent/Commando and make a clean job of it. :sweat:

That's about it for now. Yeah, long again. Oh well. It's a good discussion.

[CoosCoos]

Cool Cool stuff.

I now, with the replys you gave and all, understand how your Watts differs from mine. I play my BH the same way that you do, but looking at the footage, our Sents differ.

It's all good though. I still think you should probably trade in the cr. rh(2 hits)xxrp to lk, lk xx rp though. But you know, that's just meh and all.

I'm actually going to try and get some footage of me playing Watts soon though for some criticism and suggestions. And Stilt, check with those Salinas cats (KillaKelly, WooMighty, etc.). I think they are going to work on another Salinas Hyphy hour tape soon. It would be tight to see a BH player on the tape.

[StiltMan]

Cool Cool stuff.

I now, with the replys you gave and all, understand how your Watts differs from mine. I play my BH the same way that you do, but looking at the footage, our Sents differ.

It's all good though. I still think you should probably trade in the cr. rh(2 hits)xxrp to lk, lk xx rp though. But you know, that's just meh and all.

I'm actually going to try and get some footage of me playing Watts soon though for some criticism and suggestions. And Stilt, check with those Salinas cats (KillaKelly, WooMighty, etc.). I think they are going to work on another Salinas Hyphy hour tape soon. It would be tight to see a BH player on the tape.

Oh... KillaKelly and WooMighty were the guys you had in mind? I beat both those guys in the tournament. :sweat:

But yeah... Sentinel, on my Watts, is the anchor of the team who cleans up after BH leaves point. Sent/BH/Commando has enough different weapons that Sent/Commando by itself doesn't have that you don't have to take as many risks to assert control, and so I simply don't. It's not that I'm not capable of stomping away with Sentinel, it's that I choose not to because I don't have to. It wouldn't hurt to mix in a few other tactics as I get back into practice, by any means, but the core of my game plan is still something you can glimpse in those videos: BH f***s people up and then Sentinel comes in and plays mop bucket. Sometimes Sentinel actually has to win the game too, and he's prepared to do it, but I do it with a patient, conservative control game instead of uncorking the offense.

My Sentinel's got an algorithm somewhere in his wiring that if BH is alive, he doesn't move forward much unless it's as a surprise change of tactics. There's a reason why I carry a caption under my name on this board like "I can move FORWARD too???" :wgrin:

[CoosCoos]

Oh... KillaKelly and WooMighty were the guys you had in mind? I beat both those guys in the tournament. :sweat:

But yeah... Sentinel, on my Watts, is the anchor of the team who cleans up after BH leaves point. Sent/BH/Commando has enough different weapons that Sent/Commando by itself doesn't have that you don't have to take as many risks to assert control, and so I simply don't. It's not that I'm not capable of stomping away with Sentinel, it's that I choose not to because I don't have to. It wouldn't hurt to mix in a few other tactics as I get back into practice, by any means, but the core of my game plan is still something you can glimpse in those videos: BH f***s people up and then Sentinel comes in and plays mop bucket. Sometimes Sentinel actually has to win the game too, and he's prepared to do it, but I do it with a patient, conservative control game instead of uncorking the offense.

My Sentinel's got an algorithm somewhere in his wiring that if BH is alive, he doesn't move forward much unless it's as a surprise change of tactics. There's a reason why I carry a caption under my name on this board like "I can move FORWARD too???" :wgrin:

Who did WooMighty use? Last I saw some of his footage it was Combofiend.

I've been playing a lot of Thrax and Doom/Storm/Sent lately, and I know that when I play those teams, my Sent is aggressive, especially with the latter just because of the lockdown of Sent/Doom. With my Watts, my Sent is basically just trying to force them into the vertical plains, where I can then decide where and how I want to deal with them.

I know sometimes, when I can get them to super jump from full screen I will just fly forward + BH. If it hits, then if you are fast enough, you can unblockable when they're on there way down, either way, you can continue from there with the conditioning.

But I know on the last Salinas tape, Mikey Rasphone, Cableguy, and a Matrix user were also on there. But yeah, one more thing, I start Sent against Mags. Do you start Sent, or BH?

[StiltMan]

Who did WooMighty use? Last I saw some of his footage it was Combofiend.

He used Santhrax starting Storm in the first game, and my Sentinel OCV'ed him. He went to MSS in the second and third games, he got a little lucky and I got a little careless to force a third game.


I've been playing a lot of Thrax and Doom/Storm/Sent lately, and I know that when I play those teams, my Sent is aggressive, especially with the latter just because of the lockdown of Sent/Doom. With my Watts, my Sent is basically just trying to force them into the vertical plains, where I can then decide where and how I want to deal with them.

I know sometimes, when I can get them to super jump from full screen I will just fly forward + BH. If it hits, then if you are fast enough, you can unblockable when they're on there way down, either way, you can continue from there with the conditioning.

Hmmm. Interesting. I think the most common unblockable set up for me is to catch them off the bounce from a Commando hit if they don't find a way to stop themselves from coming straight back down (e.g. what happened to Mikey's Cable).

I usually play Sentinel more conservatively on most of my teams than most other people do, but it depends on the team and his role. On Watts my Sentinel's tactics revolve around using all the tools at his disposal to make it as frustrating as possible just to move freely, much less attack. Scrub is a careful rush-and-zone where I try to halfway minimize the risks because Sentinel has more trouble getting out easily. If it's Storm behind him instead of Cable I play it more aggressive because he can get out any time he needs to. If it's SSP I tend to try to keep him closer to the ground; this is a team that I think has potential but I'm a little leery of falling in love with too much just because of the sheer trouble it has with Sent/Commando teams. Need to study how Justin plays MSP more before I'll really feel comfortable with this team.

But I know on the last Salinas tape, Mikey Rasphone, Cableguy, and a Matrix user were also on there. But yeah, one more thing, I start Sent against Mags. Do you start Sent, or BH?

I almost always start BH on Magneto.

[Blackestheart]

Can one of you guys(Stilt or CoosCoos) create a link to the above mentioned vids of Stilts matches of the Fairfield tourney? I'm really interested in seeing how Stilt plays BH. Thanx.

[CoosCoos]

If it's SSP I tend to try to keep him closer to the ground; this is a team that I think has potential but I'm a little leery of falling in love with too much just because of the sheer trouble it has with Sent/Commando teams. Need to study how Justin plays MSP more before I'll really feel comfortable with this team.

I agree with keeping Sent on the ground with SSP. Her assist really doesn't help him in the air all to much.


Hmmm. Interesting. I think the most common unblockable set up for me is to catch them off the bounce from a Commando hit if they don't find a way to stop themselves from coming straight back down (e.g. what happened to Mikey's Cable).

Yeah, it's a great alternative to the fly under + Commando.

Can one of you guys(Stilt or CoosCoos) create a link to the above mentioned vids of Stilts matches of the Fairfield tourney? I'm really interested in seeing how Stilt plays BH. Thanx.

Sure thing.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search=Fairfield+Tourney&search_type=search_videos&search=Search

There are three matches of him on there.

[StiltMan]

Actually, I'll do a little better than that link: http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=tiltmatic

This'll actually get you the specific tournament videos from it.

[Blackestheart]

Alright, thanx guys. I'll comment on it tomorrow.

[CoosCoos]

So I was porkin around today practicing, and it seems I found....sort of a Sent/BH fastfly

Launch, sj. lk xx fly xx d + lk + BH, f. lk xx dp rp, Fly forward as BH hits, f. lp xx low rp, f. lk, f. lk xx dp rp.

I'm going to tinker with it some more though.

[StiltMan]

On the rare occasions when I play BH/Storm/Sentinel (which I often jokingly refer to as the All-Ugly Team), a Storm/Sentinel DHC can be comboed into launch/fierce/BH/upwards RP with a bit of timing. Does a lot more damage than you'd think, it's in Cammy or Commando territory.

[Blackestheart]

I'm not going to write a full page critique on your matches Stilt, because CoosCoos did a pretty good job in his. I pretty much agree on what he had to say for the most part. I just want to add a couple of things.

All around I didn't think you played that badly. However as discused you did make a couple of major mistakes that cost you the matches. Mainly The blind BH tag which to me looked like an accident, and in one of the rounds you nailed him with an ahvb but you could of added a couple of other ones, but you didn't. If I rememder correctly you did have at least 2 more levels.

You missed at least 2 Sent unblockables which could of changed the outcome of the matches.

One thing that I like to do which you had a lot of oppertunities of doing was when you're next to the opponents character on the ground with sent and you call commando dash back to bait out his commando and crouch fierce laser into RP, becouse more times than not he will call capcom and that's free damage to his assist for as many levels as you have. If his assist doesn't die, he will be reluctant to call him out, and you go on the offensive with little worry. It's just adding a little more mobility to your sent.

I agree with CoosCoos you should have sticked with Watts in the second match.

I would seriously stay away from starting BH against Storm that's a major uphill battle.

You could have used BH polks more often trying to cross him up.

All in all the matches were pretty fun to watch.

CoosCoos: I'm looking forward to watching the upcoming vids of your gamplay.

[StiltMan]

Yeah, I wasn't just unpardonably awful in the matches other than in the team management judgment. BH's blind tags were not accidental, I really was just being that stupid. Cable AHVB failure was a simple sign of how bad of shape my Cable rust was in, which is why I shouldn't have picked a Cable team to begin with and knew it in advance. Starting BH on Larry's Storm was a genuine screw-up that I didn't mean to do -- I don't start BH on Santhrax unless I'm pretty much completely certain that they're going to start Sentinel. I like BH, I think he wins a lot more fights than people give him credit for if he's well played (and demonstrated it to a fair degree in that video) but even I don't like starting him against Storm.

[BlackHeartKing]

ah as finals are close to coming and going I find myself back on here...*tears up*
anywhere I can go to see these clips you're talking about? I'll watch each match ONCE, and comment on how I would have played each

[StiltMan]

Glancing back a page when this one has so few posts on it sometimes helps. :sweat:

[Deathfist]

Actually, this isn't exactly new, it's just new to me. I heard it from Transmetel. He claims that in one of Alex Valle's matches, Valle's BH jumped, called Sentinel, and airthrew the person away from him [back the way BH came from] right into drones then supered them. Here is the research I did into this last night on Dreamcast after hearing this...

WARNING: TESTED ON DREAMCAST ONLY

=*normal jump, airdash forwards [optional but recommended...], call Sentinel, B+Hp/k to score the air throw.
Follow-ups...
1] Stuff before you land...
1a Judgement day [air] and DHC out killing the character
1b slide airdash hk followed by one of the following...
-normal jump [or sj], airdash, lk,mk [if the combo meter restarts and this hits, call Capcom, dlk,dmk, and kill the character via DHC]. If this hits and it doesen't restart the counter, launch the person or standing hk them [if you think it will hit]. If blocked, sj, and airdash back under the cover of drones, or whatever.
-ground Judgement day and DHC out to Sentinel killing the character
2]Stuff after you land...
2a Judgement Day
2b Launch the character [lp,mp, or DF hp will work vs airbourne opponents] followed by one of the following...
-Inferno XX HOD whiffed, HSF,
-Air Combo to reset or airthrow.

When used defensively, this doesen't have nearly the effect as when used offensively. If your back's to the wall and you call Sent then back throw them into the drones, the best you can usually accomplish is this combo...

1]jump back into the corner with BH, call sent and airthrow them into the corner to trade places. On the way down late in the descent, lp.
2]Immediately upon landing sj with lp [very tricky], airdash forwards, lp, lk, mp, airthrow/mk.

Further experimentation needed.

As a side note, you can do the BH lightning ground throw into Sentinel Drones, and it will combo. Your recovery is so bad that it's useless however.

You can also airthrow someone into Capcom. Call capcom, jump, airthrow. Good for a quick 40 points of damage, useless otherwise [no combo potential].

[Deathfist]

Typed Conversation between me and Stiltman in the BH teams worth noting? thread. I copied it here since something interesting was in it.

@If you get over a j. fierce and try to hit BH in order to make the fierce demons go away, and he jumps up to meet you and pokes you back into the demons, he can kill you off of that.

@A few questions:
1]How easy is it to set up a situation like this
2]How easy is it to exploit this
3]What are the best ways and combos to exploit this for the kill

@Setting it up is not that hard. People try to go over BH j. fierce all the time. The most common case has them trying to hit you and then they get hit in the back by the demons' return. The problem is, trying to combo that into Commando after block stun just isn't going to happen much in that situation.

However, sometimes your Magnus players will learn, hey, if you get over the demons, wait for them and don't try to do anything until they're off the screen. This is fairly smart of them when they do, but if they start getting too predictable about it, this is when you can meet them in the air as they're going over and hit them. If they're normal jumping, that's just gross... something is probably going to happen that will get them hit, whether it's a tail knocking them back into demons or a guard break into demons. Either way, if you get the tail off without getting hit, you can pretty much call Commando after a brief delay at that point and trust that something's probably going to happen that'll send them flying. After that, it's just a matter of getting used to the idea that comboing demons into Commando works the same as comboing anything else into Commando. The demons will keep them bouncing just long enough that you'll get back to the ground (this is why the slight delay on Commando call is necessary) in time to do something off of Commando.

It _is_ something of a trick-shot tactic that probably won't happen much. I think I've gotten this particular situation to happen exactly once in my life, and that was in the afore-mentioned case of a Magneto player who was doing a lot of turtle-in-my-face tactics. There aren't that many who are going to do that, but it's a good thing to keep in your back pocket for the ones that are, because turtle-in-your-face Magnus is probably more annoying and difficult to deal with than the more aggressive ones that at least will usually forget to block. :sweat:

[Deathfist]

The above post reminds me of a combo I invented recently.

Here is a combo I invented last week Sunday. I decided to put it here so that we have all the trickshot and non-trick-shot combos in one place.

Opponent superjumps and air-dashes towards you, and you do this...
1]Wait till you no longer have drones on screen
2]Call Sentinel-y when the sj icon disappears [or is about to disappear] and immediately sj lp,lk, micropause, airdash, lk, mp, mk, hk.
-The chain knocks them down into the drones
-The hk hits them off the drones
-They're bouncing meaning that they are at risk big time.
3]Continuations:
a-Jumping hk again, tag out to Cable/Ironman/Storm
b-Judgment day, DHC HSF [much better and more stable in this situation than one might think. DHC in Sentinel between the 29th and 35th hit.]. You have the option to launch [you MIGHT have to do a short dash; not likely though].
c-Launch, AC
d-Standing Hk, tag out to Cable/Ironman/Storm
e-HOD or InfernoXXHOD

The concept for this combo was born from the following combo. I'm sure someone thought of it first, but I had nobody to ask about this one, so I invented it myself [by taking the classic sj cancel combo and inserting drones into it to enhance it's power...].

Dlk, [optional call of Sent-y], dmp [+optional call of Sent-y], [optional call of Sent-y], sj cancel lp, pause, airdash, lk, mp, mk, hk, land, and do whatever you want [they're bouncing from the hk]
-Basically, you select the best optional call point of Sentinel drones among the ones I mentioned earlier, and do your worst.

This can get brutal really fast. You've done 35-45% damage before you've even got the chance to super their ass. The potential after the initial combo for extra damage is almost unlimited.