Final Fantasy III/VI Freaks and Geeks, listen up.

[Mert]

I'm composing a character FAQ and its going really well. There are some charaters that I don't know alot about. I have a general idea how their used but not exactly. If you could help me out it would be much appericated + your name at the end credits :)


Characters I don't get:

Gau: I gave him an 8 out of 10 because of his good magic and great magic defense. The thing that holds him back is his uncotrolablilty in Rage (IMO). Does this sound accurate?

Umaro: I gave this sorry fuck a 4/10. You can't control him and he can't heal. Wtf is the point? He's strong, sure but he can't even equip Espers to gain the bonuses.

Relm: I've used Relm before and she's got one great ability: her magic. Of course in this game, magic is all that matters, twords the end of the game. So I gave her an 8/10, because she can cast as good magic as Terra and Celes but it just physically weaker.

Edgar: I've never used him twords the end of the game because...well I just havn't haha. His Tools are very strong, so his he and his magic is excellent. I gave him a 9/10, for that reason. Even though he's slow.


Well thats about it, provide as much info as possible on these chars. please.

In case your curious:

Ratings:

Terra 9/10 (Excellent) Magic/Esper form + Gem Box + Ultima = 19998
Locke 6/10 (Average) Good speed, decent attack
Edgar 9/10 (Excellent) Great overall, ability, magic, attack
Sabin 8/10 (Great) Excellent attack and ability
Celes 9/10(Excellent) Excellent magic, good attack and good def.
Shadow 7/10 (Good) Great speed, good attack, decent magic, decent def.
Cyan 5/10 (Poor) Slow speed, good strength, poor ability
Gau 8/10 (Great) Great magic def, good ability, good magic
Mog 6/10 (Average) Good w/ "Jump", decent magic, decent ability
Relm 8/10 (Great) Great magic, weak everywhere else
Strago 8/10 (Great) Lore + Great magic = good character (Mighty Guard/Grand Train)
Setzer 7/10 (Good) Great Genjin Glove+Offering, decent magic
Gogo 6/10 (Average) No Esper bonuses, can't become better than average.
Umaro 4/10 (Very Poor) No control, no/little magic, no healing

Other characters:

Imp 5/10 (Poor) W/ Imp Armor and Imp Hallibard
General Leo 10/10 (Perfect) Excellent Strength, Magic and Ability is amazing
Ghost (????) 4/10 (Very Poor) Eh better than nothing, Possess if you get in trouble.
Bannon 5/10 (Poor) Very weak, only good thing is his Heath Ability.



Well I'm working hard on this vid and I want to get all the facts straight. Give me your opinions, thanks alot.

[Kyoujin]

It's been a really long time since I played FF3, but I think I can remember all the general knowledge I acquired from it. However, I was never one to have defenite information on characters; I did however pride myself with creating a strategy during the Esper Defense Battle:

Team 1:
Edgar(Back-row)/Sabin
-Have Edgar use Bio-blater on humans, cross-bow on others
-Have Sabin use Aura Bolt

Team 2:
Locke/Cyan/Terra(back-row)
-Give Locke the Genji Glove
-Have Cyan use technique 2
-Terra uses applicable magic

Team 3:
Gau/Celes
-It is important that Gau learns the abilities of Stray Cat
-Use this party against Kefka; have Celes always use Runic

I promise you that this team set-up will absoluetly destroy the Imperial Army; Kefka doesn't stand a chance against Gau and Celes.

[Lantis]

WTF? ALL WRONG!

Cyan should be higher.
Relm and Strago should be lower.
General Leo 10? WTF? Motherfucker got knocked all over the place by the Guardians when you played as him.
Umaro > Fanatics Tower

[ahLiLbitOfoNe]

WTF? ALL WRONG!

Cyan should be higher.
Relm and Strago should be lower.
General Leo 10? WTF? Motherfucker got knocked all over the place by the Guardians when you played as him.
Umaro > Fanatics Tower

Uh no? Game would be THAT much better if General Leo became a part of the party permanently. The only reason why that wasn't the case was because he was too powerful. 10 out of 10 is a correct assessment. The lowest I'd give him is a 9.

[Mert]

WTF? ALL WRONG!

Cyan should be higher.
Relm and Strago should be lower.
General Leo 10? WTF? Motherfucker got knocked all over the place by the Guardians when you played as him.
Umaro > Fanatics Tower


Why Cyan higher?

He has one of the worst abilities in the game, he's slow as shit, and isn't even that good with Genjin-Glove Offering compared to some people. Plus he can't cast magic for shit.

Relm and Strago are 2 of the best magic casters in the game. IMO magic is the most vauable thing in the game. Can't aruge against Might Guard Lore either.

General Leo's stats are AMAZING at the time you get to play with him. He's only 5-10 levels higher than your characters and his stats are UNBELIVABLE. His strength was better than Sabins, faster than Lock and his magic = to Terras and Shock is so top tier.

Umaro = OK in Fanatics Tower,
Mog > Fanatics Tower (Moogle Charm)
Bsrk > Fanatics Tower.


Lantis = FFIII Scrub:rofl: (J/K thanks for the opinions)




Uh no? Game would be THAT much better if General Leo became a part of the party permanently. The only reason why that wasn't the case was because he was too powerful. 10 out of 10 is a correct assessment. The lowest I'd give him is a 9.

Thanks for the back up :tup: you said exactly what I ment.


Ultimate Team: Terra, Celes, General Leo, Edgar (?)

Personally mine would be: Terra, Celes, General Leo, Shadow (Cuz he's my favorite character)

[Moment of Truth]

Locke....

.....6/10? :confused:

[Lantis]

I dunno about the whole "magic casting" thing.... everything seems to be irrelevant once you learn Vanish/Doom or X-Zone.

Relm and Strago just seem to have poor defense to me.

Didn't Cyan have some weird-ass glitch?

I still don't see where all the General Leo love is coming from. Did you get to play with him aside from the Thamasa scenario? Because in Thamasa, not even his godlike status or almighty Shock could even scratch a dent in the Guardians (which were the only enemies in that scenario along with Kefka). He does seem to be punked by everyone, and Kefka just adds insult to injury.

[Sonic_Reaper]

By himself Cyan is trash. I agree with the 5/10. However, there's a fun little glitch that basically makes Cyan top tier; I don't remember the specifics, but it involves having Cyan cast Retort, then dying, then being revived and basically having unlimited counter-attacks that act as one giant infinite string of attacks until all enemies are dead <- Broken tier.

The same kind of glitch rule applies to Setzer where manipulating game "variables" by using items allows you to choose whatever Slot attack you want. Once it's set-up, Setzer is good to go, so you don't have to start the process over each battle ala Cyan. If you decide to use this trick, Setzer becomes the best character in the game.

Using Relm's Sketch glitch allows (possible) access to 256 Illumina's and other game destroying weapons/armor/accessories. I don't know if that would factor into her usefullness, as it's horribly random and you could end up erasing the save file, or getting a really messed inventory.

Let's see ... other glitches ... none that I can think of at the moment. I would say Shadow is pretty crappy. Good speed and damage with Surikens, besides that though, he's kinda blegh. Shitty equipment select like Locke, BUT he doesn't get the awesome 2X Wing Edge ala Locke, which with Capture, makes Locke pretty frickin awesome, also, Wing Edges can be used in the backrow, so Locke's equipment situation suddenly got better.

Gau can replicate Shock using a specific Rage, can't remember which. Stray (cat) has a Cat Scratch attack, or the like, that does something like 3X or 4X damage. I hear it's all the Rage (OMG DUH PUN I FUNNAY) ... but I've never used Gau, so I can't comment first hand.

Any character with Vanish + X-Zone = God-Tier.


Locke 6/10 (Average) Good speed, decent attack

Eh? I would bump him up a notch. Wing Edge 2X in backrow. Also, Capture is basically a guaranteed attack + bonus item. Valiant Knife acts as a reverse Atma Weapon, which I believe only Locke can access.

Sabin 8/10 (Great) Excellent attack and ability

His skill is shitty in the WoR IMO. While you're rolling the D-Pad like an idiot, you could be busting out Ultima, X-Attack, Vanish + X-Zone, or whatever. Sabin has some of the shittiest equipment select in the game. His ultimate weapon blows ass. I'd take him down a notch.

Shadow 7/10 (Good) Great speed, good attack, decent magic, decent def.

His speed is comparable to Locke's. Throw has great damage potential, however, Surikens run out and Skean's are very expensive for a good portion of the game. He mostly attacks and throws Surikens (garden variety) for most of the game. Because of the way he's set up in the WoB, you're likely to get him to the WoR without having learned any spells, which really blows. His weapon select seriously sucks, IMO. I could let a 7/10 pass though I guess.

Cyan 5/10 (Poor) Slow speed, good strength, poor ability

Dispatch can reach 9999 and is always higher than his attack. And that's selectable right away (his first Sword Tech). I don't know if you're factoring in glitches or not.

Setzer 7/10 (Good) Great Genjin Glove+Offering, decent magic

Again, the glitch. His "dice" selection of weapons can be quite useful. GP Toss is a waste of money however.

Gogo 6/10 (Average) No Esper bonuses, can't become better than average.

I would bump him up a Notch. Mimic doesn't use magic points, so he can mimic Ultima and other high MP spells for FREE. You can make him anything you want = very flexible character.

[9999]

As much as I hate to say this, and even though he's my fav, Sabin drops off a bit near the end of the game.

And Id up Mog a point, maybe even two. And an Imp with full armor and Imp Halberd is VERY good.

[kainzero]

Most rankings depend on where you are at the game.

Gau rocks for catscratch (stray cat rage) alone. When you first get him, he's putting up 800 damage when everyone else is barely putting up 200. He gets better as the game goes on, but I never really explored the rest of his brokenness.

Edgar's use drops off somewhat in WoR. At first, Drill is really good because it ignores enemy defense (great for mission into Vector), and Auto Crossbow is great physical multitarget. But then in WoR, it doesn't become as good. Yet still, he has a 128 MBlock setup... so yeah, still pretty good.

Sabin also has limited use. Pummel ignores defense making it great for Empire run and Fire Dance is great for multitarget damage before Osmose comes into play. He becomes pretty useful in WoR at first because you can get Bum Rush as soon as you get airship, but once you start getting higher level magic and levelling up, he starts to drop off quite a bit. Also, most of his blitzes are based on Magic, and he has the worst Magic stat in the game. Training him in magic makes Fire Dance and Airblade outdated compared to regular magic.

Mog should be rated much better. With Snow Muffler he can get 255 DEF easily, making him take double digit damage against most enemies. He's also pretty good with boots/horn combo.

I would take Strago down a notch. Unlike Relm, he doesn't have a 128 MBlock setup, and his magic doesn't seem as good either. Grandtrain is easily outclassed by Ultima.

Celes isn't that great until WoR, IMO. Runic is situation-specific, great magic amd equipment don't come until mid-WoR. I like Celes' character so I use her all the time, but I still think she's kinda weak until then. Terra is kinda the same but she has Morph, that makes her really good for boss battles.

I agree with everything else though.

General points that I'd like to make are that Osmose is really broken in this game (no really, forget about Gold Hairpin and Economizer when you can take 300 MP from almost all the monsters in the game), speed doesn't matter because of the way the ATB system works, and I think we're obviously ignoring Vanish/Doom (X-Zone) since that combo >> all... except for that one Doom guy that attacks you on the airship, because if you use X-Zone I think he doesn't drop Bahamut. =P

[MrQuotes]

Locke 6/10 (Average) Good speed, decent attack

needs to be much higher
he can equip anything(1 of the 4 characters that can)
it doesnt take much to give him 128 mblock since he has good natural stats
illumina/atma weapon/genji glove/ offering = well over 20K damage

[fishjie]

I think its pointless to even try to tier final fantasy 3 characters since any douchebag can cast ultima. any douchebag can do xzone vanish. and most douchebags can equip genji glove with offering (i'm trying to remember if there are some characters who can't wear it). any douchebag can beef up stats with espers.

the bottom line that determines the tiers then, imo is your %mblock stat, since due to a bug, regular blocking does not matter in that game. so basically %mblock determines your ability to dodge magic and physical attacks. its the only thing that can seperate the characters i think.

someone should seriously edit the ROM and fix that mblock nonsense...............

anyway i dont even play ff3 based on the team tiers. i love umaro and cyan, even though they are considered weaker, because i like the character design.

anyway what makes setzer a good character? i hear a lot of praise for him. the only good thing he had imo was gp rain. i never understood what was so good about fixed dice, maybe there's some trick i was missing, cause it didn't do nearly the dmg of gp rain.

[Sonic_Reaper]

anyway what makes setzer a good character? i hear a lot of praise for him. the only good thing he had imo was gp rain. i never understood what was so good about fixed dice, maybe there's some trick i was missing, cause it didn't do nearly the dmg of gp rain.

I'm guessing you missed my post. Although I've never tried it, there's a trick that allows you select whatever Slot attack you want. The way slots works in the game is through variables and these variables can be changed through various means. Using the right items for example, will allow you cast a specific Slot attack. Knowing how it works, you can abuse Setzer.

His stats aren't bad ... and there's a use to the fixed dice I'm forgetting. I think that works off variables too ... if that's the case, you can set it up for 9999 as soon as you get it I think (I could be wrong on that last one).

Without these tricks, Setzer is just average, I think.

[Green]

Terra, Celes, random char, and Mog are, IMO, the best characters. (Mog with 255 defense, Safety Bit, Ribbon = unkillable). Then you've got the Mblock bug which Terra and Celes can easily take advantage of, and they both have superior magic.

Edgar is not deserving of the 9 you gave him. His speed is nothing special, and his magic is only average. His tools don't really do much near the end of the game.

In the WoB, Gau owns. His Cat Scratch and other Rages are too broken.

[blood_sin]

There's already a ton of FAQs on FF6, what info can you provide that hasn't already been said?

[Sonic_Reaper]

Gau has potential ... in fact a lot. The problem is that you basically need to play him with a FAQ in hand; seeing what Rages grant what abilities. And then there's the way that Rages are learned that's kinda boring/long winded. Personally I find it's too much trouble when you can make other characters so much more useful ... and they're controllable.

[YahnV]

Can't Locke get glitched magic block? I think he should be rated higher.

[Dasrik]

I still think Locke sucks.

[TrueSephiroth]

Locke with genjiglove/offering ='s Pimp, because being the fastest ='s first, and after 8 freakin hits, and a solid enough lvl, he owns, at max, it's 9999 x 8 ='s too good. At the start of the game, Locke is indeed 6/10, but later, as soon as you get genji/offering combo, he's a heck of alot better 6/10, I would say 9/10 imo.

Otherwise, if you all want to get technical, I can say this...

Vanish/X-Zone ='s :pray: , when you get this, it makes pratically all regular/boss battles completely mute really, and you get it very early within the game also.

[Mert]

I still think Locke sucks.


Thanks. I like his character but that doesn't mean he's a good fighter. I LOVE Shadow, but I only gave him a 7. Don't play favorites here folks.



Locke with genjiglove/offering ='s Pimp, because being the fastest ='s first, and after 8 freakin hits, and a solid enough lvl, he owns, at max, it's 9999 x 8 ='s too good. At the start of the game, Locke is indeed 6/10, but later, as soon as you get genji/offering combo, he's a heck of alot better 6/10, I would say 9/10 imo.





You got Locke's attack up to 9999? Amazing. Look people, he's fast, thats about as far as it goes. He is also cool but that doesn't factor into battle. I like him but Sabin, Edgar and Setzer are much better with the Genji-Glove Offering.



Edgar is not deserving of the 9 you gave him. His speed is nothing special, and his magic is only average. His tools don't really do much near the end of the game.



Thanks, well noted. I think he deserves at least an 8 because he is so so helpful durring the whole WoB and thru alot of the WoR. Thanks, good catch.












Vanish/X-Zone ='s :pray: , when you get this, it makes pratically all regular/boss battles completely mute really, and you get it very early within the game also.


any douchebag can do xzone vanish.



I dunno about the whole "magic casting" thing.... everything seems to be irrelevant once you learn Vanish/Doom or X-Zone.






Any character with Vanish + X-Zone = God-Tier.








...OK guys everybody and thier momma know about Vanish/Xzone or the Vanish/Doom trick. This is OBVIOUSLY NOT going to be factored in. ANYBODY with the Gem Box can kill any opponent in 1 turn. As for Cyan's glitch, I already considered it. You can do it fairly early, it requires the Imp spell, a method of reviving (Life spell/Fenix Down) and Cyan w/ Retort (I belive he starts with it). So yeah. He's still not very good, the gltich can get messed up in various ways: Opponent attacks Cyan before he becomes an Imp, charater trying to revive him gets KOed, run out of MP/Fenix Downs. Its a good glitch and it keeps him out of the 4/10. He's just so damn sorry. I love his character and use him from time to time but he isnt even worth the trouble.

Thanks for the Gau info. Cat Scratch = top tier, got it. Any more info on this guy? He's really the only one I never really used. Is he only good in WoB or is he still great in WoR? Somebody put that he's broken? I guess that means he's great all the way thru. Additional Gau info please.


To the guy who asked what else I can offer compared to other FFIII/VI FAQS...you'll have to wait and see. As the staff creating the Evo DVD says, "One more week."


Thanks alot, seriously, keep the info coming.


Note: Umaro is the only character in the entire game who CAN'T do the Vanish/Xzone AND/OR the Genji Glove + Offering trick. So those of you who were bashing me for giving him a 4/10 you might want to think about that, 4/10 seems down right generious now huh?

[Dasrik]

Attacking first and being able to equip anything hardly makes up for Locke's lack of anything special otherwise. He can't use magic without Espers and his steal/capture hardly ever yields anything worth stealing (and requires you to have a crappy weapon equipped to attack and steal at the same time). I never use him unless I need him for subquests and the like.

[box]

Attacking first and being able to equip anything hardly makes up for Locke's lack of anything special otherwise. He can't use magic without Espers and his steal/capture hardly ever yields anything worth stealing (and requires you to have a crappy weapon equipped to attack and steal at the same time). I never use him unless I need him for subquests and the like.

Locke isn't very good if you're playing the game casually. If you're hardcore and getting everybody powered up to the max, then Locke is probably the most powerful. That speed, plus the ability to equip atma, means that he can kill the enemy faster then any other character. Of course at that point, the game is broken.

It's been talked about in the forums before. Locke at level 99, vs Locke at regular levels to finish the game. I'll try to find the link.

I guess my question is... Are these ratings for characters at their normal/non-broken levels. Or at their full potential/hardcore/overkill/level 99 standings?? At their Full potential/level 99/overkill standings, Locke, Terra, Edgar and Celes are at the top because of their ability to equip atma.

[TrueSephiroth]

Locke isn't very good if you're playing the game casually. If you're hardcore and getting everybody powered up to the max, then Locke is probably the most powerful. That speed, plus the ability to equip atma, means that he can kill the enemy faster then any other character. Of course at that point, the game is broken.

It's been talked about in the forums before. Locke at level 99, vs Locke at regular levels to finish the game. I'll try to find the link.

I guess my question is... Are these ratings for characters at their normal/non-broken levels. Or at their full potential/hardcore/overkill/level 99 standings?? At their Full potential/level 99/overkill standings, Locke, Terra, Edgar and Celes are at the top because of their ability to equip atma.


My point exactly, I ain't talking lvl 50 bs, I'm talking lvl 99 of goodness. Imo, FFVI doesn't really have a "who's the best character" because in the end, everyone ultimately takes off max. I would agree that Locke, Terra, Edgar and Celes>>>>everyone else, we are talking full potential right? Isn't that what ranking characters is all, about, who's the best, and at their full potential right. I've even stated, Locke sucks in the beginning, but in the end, he's Top.

[Dasrik]

I leveled up to 99 at one point. If you're levelling up like you should (ie. with Odin esper), then everyone should be fucking fast. At that point there is absolutely nothing special about Locke.

[box]

I leveled up to 99 at one point. If you're levelling up like you should (ie. with Odin esper), then everyone should be fucking fast. At that point there is absolutely nothing special about Locke.

If you do the same things to all the characters, Locke will always remain your fastest character.

Again this is at level 99. If there was Vs mode FF3/6(jp), I'd definitely pick level 99 Locke. Why? Because he gets to attack first for 9999 x 8. No matter who your opponent is (terra/sabin/etc), they are dead.

Again, it comes down to whether the ratings are for a characters full potential, or the minimum required to finish the game. If it's the minimum required to finish the game, then a lot of the non-atma characters, rise up in the rankings.

[Dasrik]

Quibbling. When I was at lvl99, I always got the first attack anyway.

[box]

Quibbling. When I was at lvl99, I always got the first attack anyway.

Yes. At level 99, all the characters are broken. But it comes down to who is MORE broken. And that's Locke. Because he ALWAYS gets first attack out of all 4 teammates.

[Mert]

I've never gotten my Locke to do 9999 damage with his attack, am I missing something? With Atma I could see it happening but if not than nah. I am talking level 50 w/o broken things (excluding Cyan's trick because its character specific).. That means no vanish/xzone. I have to agree with Dasrik on Locke. I mean he is FAST...that's about it. His attack can't even come close to 9999....even at high levels. At least as far as I've whitnessed. Please stop debating Locke, no matter what you say I will not change my opinion on him because I have beaten the game with him and formed my own opinion. I could use more help with Gau and which specific Rage techniques are useful. Thanks.


STOP THE LOCKE RANT


(That goes for Locke-Fan boys and Locke-Haters)


Seriously.


PS:

I was told I should move Mog up to a 7. Should this be done? Either way explain why he should be moved up or stay. Thanks.

[Dasrik]

I believe one of the rages Gau initially has does the "Critical" attack, which is fine for the time you don't have Stray Cat. I remember that I played around with the Rages a lot at one point, but ultimately there's not much reason to not use Stray Cat.

[Mert]

What make Stray Cat so good? I'd think the "White Dragon" or a great beast like that would be the best kind of Rage for him...considering what the White Dragon is to Stray Cat.


Is Stray Cat in WoR?

[box]

Mert: I don't think anyone here is a Locke fanboy/hater. We're just debating the facts. Locke is definitely #1 if we're talking about full potential. He DOES do 9999x8 if you equip him with atma or illumina with Genji glove and offering at level 99. And he gets to do 9999 x8 faster then anyone else in the game. That's why he's #1 if we're talking full potential.

If we're talking about level 50, then I agree with everyone else that he isn't that hot.

I guess the confusion was whether we were talking about full potential ratings... or the minimum levels needed to finish the game. But it looks like it's the latter so that's been cleared up.

This discussion already happened a while ago over here:

http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96162

The thread is 13 pages long so you may have to do some searching.

[Magulorist]

Stray cat is in WoB, and its in the area by the place where ifrit and shiva are located. Personally i just raise Gau's magic and use Behemoth. BeHemoth is found on Fllying continent. i sure do like my free meteo.

[Mert]

Mert: I don't think anyone here is a Locke fanboy/hater. We're just debating the facts. Locke is definitely #1 if we're talking about full potential. He DOES do 9999x8 if you equip him with atma or illumina with Genji glove and offering at level 99. And he gets to do 9999 x8 faster then anyone else in the game. That's why he's #1 if we're talking full potential.

If we're talking about level 50, then I agree with everyone else that he isn't that hot.

I guess the confusion was whether we were talking about full potential ratings... or the minimum levels needed to finish the game. But it looks like it's the latter so that's been cleared up.

This discussion already happened a while ago over here:

http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96162

The thread is 13 pages long so you may have to do some searching.



Thanks alot for clearing that up box. I agree, he is good at level 99 but who the fuck isnt? Thanks for the info and link.



Stray cat is in WoB, and its in the area by the place where ifrit and shiva are located. Personally i just raise Gau's magic and use Behemoth. BeHemoth is found on Fllying continent. i sure do like my free meteo.


Thanks you seem to know a lot about Gau and the game in general (nice ava). Why are you giving the moster locations though? Do you have to fight them first to make them appear on the Veldt? More info please.

[Dasrik]

What make Stray Cat so good?
I'm really not sure. Catscratch does insane amounts of damage and (I think) ignores defense, and you can do 9999 with it far before Gau gets to level 99.

And yes, you have to fight monsters outside the Veldt before they actually appear in the Veldt. You can also use Veldt fights to learn magic with the Espers without leveling up.

[Biggzy]

I guess I'm the only one that thinks Cyan is good. Once you get that quadra slice, he gets fuckin dirty.

[YahnV]

I guess I'm the only one that thinks Cyan is good. Once you get that quadra slice, he gets fuckin dirty.

Quadra Slice sucks. In fact, Dispatch is his ONLY good tech and that's for the glitch.

[kainzero]

i believe you can fight stray cat in one of the forests before empire camp in sabin's quest, and then gau will start with it.

catscratch does like, 8x regular attack or something, and since the moveset for stray cat is simply that or normal hit, you get catscratch fairly often.
in WoR you can put a merit award on him and equip cyan's tempest for 8x multi-target wind damage too.

and like i said, speed is such a worthless stat. wow, locke goes first, who cares, everyone else will probably go before the opponent anyway. but really, speed is a bad stat because if you cast a spell with a long animation, usually the atb charges up as well. even if your atb charged up faster, it wouldn't matter. the long animation would let slower people go as well. that's just an example, but you'll notice how the atb charges up during times when it shouldn't, like the pause after you select a command and so on and so forth. i know i'm not the only one who would cast a really long spell and then have cyan charge during it...

[Mert]

Quadra Slice sucks. In fact, Dispatch is his ONLY good tech and that's for the glitch.


You mean Retort for his glitch correct? Unless theres another glitch the one I'm thinking of is:


Have Cyan activate Retort
Cast Imp on Cyan
Kill Cyan (Imp)
Revive Cyan (Imp)
He kills every opponent on the screen.


Dispatch is good anyway, it does great damage and takes no longer to use than a normal attack.

[YahnV]

You mean Retort for his glitch correct? Unless theres another glitch the one I'm thinking of is:


Have Cyan activate Retort
Cast Imp on Cyan
Kill Cyan (Imp)
Revive Cyan (Imp)
He kills every opponent on the screen.


Dispatch is good anyway, it does great damage and takes no longer to use than a normal attack.

Yeah, Retort is the one.

[box]

Thanks alot for clearing that up box. I agree, he is good at level 99 but who the fuck isnt? Thanks for the info and link.

Yeah, everyone is broken at level 99. But Locke is more broken than others.

As for level 50, without any brokeness... I'd probably have Edgar and Terra and Celes at the top. Edgar tools really help out against numerous enemies. They can cause status ailments, hit multiple enemies, and even a single enemy for bosses. Definitely top tier at level 50. Terra's magic skillz are good to keep her at the top. Celes is Terra lite for me. Still good, but Terra is better.

[Return of Shiki]

Guys...
http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96162

Starting with post #43 we pretty much spend half the thread trying to tier FF6, first with Natural Magic Games, and then in general.

In short, our findings of the characters outside the broken stuff almost everybody can use (Vanish->X-Zone/Doom, Economizer/Gem Box+Ultima, Quick yourself to infinity, Genji Glove+Offering, etc.) we found that basically the best characters are determined by
1) Magic Power stat
2) MBlock stat
3) Equipment Selection (which influences 1, 2, and 4)
and a distant 4) Speed

Magic > All in for the most part FF6. Strength doesn't matter. It's all who can do the most with spells, and who can hit 128% MBlock (which means you're invincible to everything but unblockable attacks)

Top:
Terra (Morph, magic, equips)
Gau (Cat Scratch rage, Wind God equipment)
Celes (Magic, equips)
Locke (Speed, equips)
Edgar (Tools, MBlock, equips)

Upper
Relm (Magic is good, but equips suck and physically weak)
Shadow (Speed, Throw, Interceptor, Strong weapons but bad armor)
Gogo (Can do anything, but no growth)
Mog (Dragoon stuff, magic, Moogle Charm)

Mid
Strago (Magic, lores are overrated, equips suck, slow)
Setzer (Fixed Dice)
Sabin (Blitzes < Magic...best Blitzes are magic based but Magic stat sucks, bad equips)
Cyan (Magic sucks, equip suck, SwdTech are good in WoB but lose to magic in World of Ruin, slow as hell)

Crap
Umaro

Everyone above mid is usable though...but the mid tier guys pretty much lose their luster halfway through the game.

[Dasrik]

I'm not acknowledging tier lists with Locke in top, and most of them have him there. He's bad at low levels, only okay at middle levels, and at high levels everyone's the same. Terra/Celes/Gau/Edgar are definitely the best, and whatever order they're in depends wholly on your style. He'd probably be in the Upper tier for me, and not even the top there (I think Shadow is better).

I do think Sabin is not as good as most people think, though. He's great in WoB, but becomes like Locke in WoR - nothing special.

[box]

I do think Sabin is not as good as most people think, though.

Actually a lot of people don't think Sabin is that good for the reasons you mentioned so you're not in the minority. His blitzes simply get outclassed by magic once people reach mid-levels.

[TheIlluminati]

There's a bunch of ways to tier FF6.

"Regular" game, low level game, Natural Magic game, Level 99 game (weaksauce).

It's pointless to argue without specifying.. and not specifying is where most of the conflict seems to come from.

[TrueSephiroth]

There's a bunch of ways to tier FF6.

"Regular" game, low level game, Natural Magic game, Level 99 game (weaksauce).

It's pointless to argue without specifying.. and not specifying is where most of the conflict seems to come from.


This man speaks the truth, for me, however, I always look at it at lvl 99, full potential, and at full potential, the tier listing for FFVI is basically almost mute. I do however like Shiki's list, as that is definetly a more detailed look at the characters individually.

[Ouroborus]

celes is ranked a bit too high

drop that bitch down

[Dasrik]

No. Runic is too useful in many fights, plus she can naturally use magic from the get-go which automatically puts her up there for being able to multi-target.

[Ouroborus]

there is only one fight which i've actually used runic and i think it was mandatory.

celes is nothing more than slightly weaker version of terra, which makes no sense why shes ranked on the top

and strago should be lower too.

[Dasrik]

celes is nothing more than slightly weaker version of terra, which makes no sense why shes ranked on the top
You say that like it's a bad thing. Being one of the only three characters to be able to multi-target characters from the get go auto-tops her.

And Runic's a lifesaver in Zozo.

[Return of Shiki]

Yeah, FF6 is a pain to tier, much more than your typical RPG because of all the different ways to play and the broken crap in it.

My first list can be consider the World of Ruin tier list, here's what I think the World of Balance tier list looks like:

Top:
Sabin (Hella strong, Blitzes own most stuff)
Edgar (Strong, good tools)
Terra (Morph, magic)
Gau (Only if you get the Catscratch and Pterodon rages early, but still can't take damage well)

Upper:
Shadow (Hella strong, but not around long enough)
Celes (Magic, but most WoB enemies don't use devastating magic and MP is limited so she drops in value)
Cyan (Earlier SwdTech own most WoB enemies, strong)

Mid:
Mog (Dances are strong but unreliable and unpredictable, his good equipment is only in WoR)
Relm (Magic, but comes very late and very weak. No point in wasting time raising her just to take to the Floating Continent when you can wait til' WoR)
Strago (Magic, but starting lores kinda suck, weak)

Mid-Low:
Locke (Some interesting weapons, but otherwise fairly outclassed by everybody else)
Setzer (I don't remember if he gets Dice in WoB, but they don't ignore defense like the Fized Dice so he still sucks fairly bad)

Should've Worn His Asbestos Underwear Tier:
Leo

Level-up Express Tier:
Banon

Ted Woolsey Missed the Joke Tier:
Vicks

Shouldn't Have Looked The Same As "Vicks" On SNES Tier:
Wedge

Better Than Having Nobody Tier:
Ghost

[box]

Top:
Sabin (Hella strong, Blitzes own most stuff)
Edgar (Strong, good tools)
Terra (Morph, magic)
Gau (Only if you get the Catscratch and Pterodon rages early, but still can't take damage well)


Can Terra morph in WOB? I can't remember if she acquires that skill yet.

[Mr. Bastos]

I guess I'm the only one that thinks Cyan is good. Once you get that quadra slice, he gets fuckin dirty.

no I love Cyan too, He's always been one of my favorite characters.

[InfiniDragon615]

I'm really not sure. Catscratch does insane amounts of damage and (I think) ignores defense, and you can do 9999 with it far before Gau gets to level 99.

It doesn't necessarily take level 99 to do 9999 damage (even though Catscratch is still a great skill). My level 60-ish Terra could do that with her Atma, or an Illumina. And if she has X Attack or Genji Glove...look the fuck out. Terra owned that game, with or without Magic (and rightly so, as she was the closest thing to the main character).

As for Sabin, his Blitz attacks do get nerfed hard in WoR, thus lowering his ranking by a bit. But I personally just X Attack Tiger/Dragon Claw with him at that point, and Strength is one thing he has in spades. GGPO to pretty much anything you hit with that. He's not the best in WoR stats-wise (and that is what you should definitely go by for this FAQ), but he's got ways of making it work.

He's not total crap like Umaro, who's only point is that he gets to attack in Fanatic's Tower (while everyone else is limited to spells).

[Mert]

Guys...
http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96162

Starting with post #43 we pretty much spend half the thread trying to tier FF6, first with Natural Magic Games, and then in general.

In short, our findings of the characters outside the broken stuff almost everybody can use (Vanish->X-Zone/Doom, Economizer/Gem Box+Ultima, Quick yourself to infinity, Genji Glove+Offering, etc.) we found that basically the best characters are determined by
1) Magic Power stat
2) MBlock stat
3) Equipment Selection (which influences 1, 2, and 4)
and a distant 4) Speed

Magic > All in for the most part FF6. Strength doesn't matter. It's all who can do the most with spells, and who can hit 128% MBlock (which means you're invincible to everything but unblockable attacks)

Top:
Terra (Morph, magic, equips)
Gau (Cat Scratch rage, Wind God equipment)
Celes (Magic, equips)
Locke (Speed, equips)
Edgar (Tools, MBlock, equips)

Upper
Relm (Magic is good, but equips suck and physically weak)
Shadow (Speed, Throw, Interceptor, Strong weapons but bad armor)
Gogo (Can do anything, but no growth)
Mog (Dragoon stuff, magic, Moogle Charm)

Mid
Strago (Magic, lores are overrated, equips suck, slow)
Setzer (Fixed Dice)
Sabin (Blitzes < Magic...best Blitzes are magic based but Magic stat sucks, bad equips)
Cyan (Magic sucks, equip suck, SwdTech are good in WoB but lose to magic in World of Ruin, slow as hell)

Crap
Umaro

Everyone above mid is usable though...but the mid tier guys pretty much lose their luster halfway through the game.


Thanks alot! Please specify what the "Wind God" equipment is for Gau and I think I'm ready to roll on this FAQ, which BTW is going to be a VIDEO FAQ. I was wondering how to capture video...i know you need a video capture device but where can I get one and how exactly does it work? THanks alot agian, and anymore misc. info would be appericated.





As for Sabin, his Blitz attacks do get nerfed hard in WoR, thus lowering his ranking by a bit. But I personally just X Attack Tiger/Dragon Claw with him at that point, and Strength is one thing he has in spades. GGPO to pretty much anything you hit with that. He's not the best in WoR stats-wise (and that is what you should definitely go by for this FAQ), but he's got ways of making it work.




Excellent shit. I too used Sabin thru the whole game. His Blitzes get easily overrun by Magic and Genji Glove Offering. The thing is he can use Genji Glove + Offering excellently. Use his Blitzes thru the WoB and early WoR that is til you get the GG + Offering. His strength is really really good.

[Magulorist]

Wind god gau is when you have the Merit Award accesory. Cyan's sword tempest, and the rage Stray cait. Truth be told, i never actually uses this method or any other method except the standard known, gembox+eco, vanish+xzone/doom and offering+genj glove
What do you mean by capture?

[Mert]

Wind god gau is when you have the Merit Award accesory. Cyan's sword tempest, and the rage Stray cait. Truth be told, i never actually uses this method or any other method except the standard known, gembox+eco, vanish+xzone/doom and offering+genj glove
What do you mean by capture?


Capture is Locke's "Mug" ability. He attacks and steals.


How do you get the Merit Award?

[Return of Shiki]

I *think* Wind God Gau includes:

-Stray Cat rage
-Merit Award
-Genji Glove or Offering Relic
-Tempest Knife (Two, if using Genji Glove over Offering)
-Snow Muffler
-And I can't remember what helmet...

You get Merit Awards (which allow a character to equip ANY armor or weapons) in Colosseum by betting a Cat Hood (but beware, you have to fight Hoover). Cat Hoods can be gotten by betting Titanium Helmets or Imp Halberds.

Wind God Gau can't be used on the PSX (FF Anthology) version of FF6 because he can't equip the Merit Award in that version, only the original FF3 SNES (US) or FF6 Super Famicom versions.

[Pat the Great]

this video faq sounds like all bad news to me. who the hell is going to spend hella time downloading a video with information on a game that's over 10 years old and has had nothing new come out of it for at least like the last 5 when they can just mosey on over to gamefaqs and get it in like 10 seconds? you really think people wanna stare at your ugly mug that much?

[Mert]

this video faq sounds like all bad news to me. who the hell is going to spend hella time downloading a video with information on a game that's over 10 years old and has had nothing new come out of it for at least like the last 5 when they can just mosey on over to gamefaqs and get it in like 10 seconds? you really think people wanna stare at your ugly mug that much?


:sad:


Why the hell would my ugly mug be anywhere on this video.


Bitch.

[kainzero]

in that tier list i'm wondering why relm is only upper tier when she can hit 128 mblock and starts with the highest magpwr in the game, which are 1 and 2 on your criteria list.

she can't equip illumina, that's it, and if you're using magic all the time, who cares?

[Strike]

Oh yeah, that thread. And it looks like all the Locke fans came back here too. I think the cause of most of that argument came from the insisting that one style of tiering was superior to another; mostly from the level 99 crowd.

I still think Locke gets way too much praise, no matter how you tier the game. It's already been established that he sucks on a low level and "normal" playthrough. Speed being overrated is mentioned yet again. And even though a level 99 Locke can cause the most damage in 9999 x8; at that point, you're just tiering based on overkill. So on a 35000 HP boss; a level 99 Locke can do 9999 x8 damage to it before it acts and the boss dies. Is that really any better than another level 99 character acting before the boss does and hitting it at 9999 x4? The end result is the same, and tiering who killed such a pathetic boss seems silly then.

Anyway, others have already pointed out that such a video/FAQ about FF6 will probably not be warmly received and will probably gather more hate than anything else because the game is extremely old, and pretty much every facet of its gameplay/glitches/secrets has already been discovered and can be found in mere moments at gamefaqs.

[Mert]

Oh yeah, that thread. And it looks like all the Locke fans came back here too. I think the cause of most of that argument came from the insisting that one style of tiering was superior to another; mostly from the level 99 crowd.

I still think Locke gets way too much praise, no matter how you tier the game. It's already been established that he sucks on a low level and "normal" playthrough. Speed being overrated is mentioned yet again. And even though a level 99 Locke can cause the most damage in 9999 x8; at that point, you're just tiering based on overkill. So on a 35000 HP boss; a level 99 Locke can do 9999 x8 damage to it before it acts and the boss dies. Is that really any better than another level 99 character acting before the boss does and hitting it at 9999 x4? The end result is the same, and tiering who killed such a pathetic boss seems silly then.

Anyway, others have already pointed out that such a video/FAQ about FF6 will probably not be warmly received and will probably gather more hate than anything else because the game is extremely old, and pretty much every facet of its gameplay/glitches/secrets has already been discovered and can be found in mere moments at gamefaqs.


Wow thanks alot. Locke info was great and what I've been trying to say but in an organized fashion.

About making this FAQ...I love this game so much but was only in 1st or 2nd grade when it first came out. I just want to make more of a tribute to it...sort of.

[Biggs]

I'm suprised people never used the nightshade rage. That thing is downright broken.

[Mert]

I'm suprised people never used the nightshade rage. That thing is downright broken.


How so?



PS: Where's Wedge?

[Biggs]

How so?


http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/snes/file/final_fantasy_iii_rage_a.txt

Do a Ctrl+F search for "Legendary Tactics".

[TrueSephiroth]

Oh yeah, that thread. And it looks like all the Locke fans came back here too. I think the cause of most of that argument came from the insisting that one style of tiering was superior to another; mostly from the level 99 crowd.

I still think Locke gets way too much praise, no matter how you tier the game. It's already been established that he sucks on a low level and "normal" playthrough. Speed being overrated is mentioned yet again. And even though a level 99 Locke can cause the most damage in 9999 x8; at that point, you're just tiering based on overkill. So on a 35000 HP boss; a level 99 Locke can do 9999 x8 damage to it before it acts and the boss dies. Is that really any better than another level 99 character acting before the boss does and hitting it at 9999 x4? The end result is the same, and tiering who killed such a pathetic boss seems silly then.

Anyway, others have already pointed out that such a video/FAQ about FF6 will probably not be warmly received and will probably gather more hate than anything else because the game is extremely old, and pretty much every facet of its gameplay/glitches/secrets has already been discovered and can be found in mere moments at gamefaqs.


I agree with you to some sense, however when was it in any rpg where we do not tier on overkill? Also, I'm no Locke Fan(I think it's rather bs to label people as such as well), I believe he's complete and utter trash in WoB, but in WoR, Offering/GenjiGlove is too good, and if my memory serves me correctly, you do not recieve the offering that late into the WoR when everyone is super powerful, but fairly early within the WoR( I believe Katana-Soul within the Ancient Castle), because not everyone can deal death-dealing attacks even during this time frame of the game (Yes, I am stating if you didn't powerlvl but just lvled regularly), and with this combo set on Locke it makes him extremely effective. You don't even "need" to be on lvl 99 to do big damage with him equipped to this combo, because Atma Weapon/Valiant Knife should already be at Locke's disposal.

I feel that Locke is extremely underrated when he is probably the best character for the genji-glove/offering combo, because this combo is effective as soon as you recieve, not just at lvl 99, this puts Locke up a few notches, and continues to do so. Speed, I have to admit may not be that big of a deal, however since Locke naturally is the fastest, this combo works best with him, since he will almost always attack first, so how can you possibly say that this does not make Locke better? I am willing to admit, that without the genji-glove/offering combo set on Locke, he isn't that great, but it's because he can attack first and being equipped with this that makes him a far better character during WoR, not just at lvl 99, as Shiki stated before...Locke - Speed/Equips, which is what makes him good in WoR. To shorten what I just said before, you don't need to be lvl 99 to have the genji-glove/offering combo become effective with Locke, it's an excellent combination right from the start.

To end, I have to say, that I agree with Shiki on his tiering of both the WoB and the WoR listing.

[kainzero]

I agree with you to some sense, however when was it in any rpg where we do not tier on overkill? Also, I'm no Locke Fan(I think it's rather bs to label people as such as well), I believe he's complete and utter trash in WoB, but in WoR, Offering/GenjiGlove is too good, and if my memory serves me correctly, you do not recieve the offering that late into the WoR when everyone is super powerful, but fairly early within the WoR( I believe Katana-Soul within the Ancient Castle), because not everyone can deal death-dealing attacks even during this time frame of the game (Yes, I am stating if you didn't powerlvl but just lvled regularly), and with this combo set on Locke it makes him extremely effective. You don't even "need" to be on lvl 99 to do big damage with him equipped to this combo, because Atma Weapon/Valiant Knife should already be at Locke's disposal.

I feel that Locke is extremely underrated when he is probably the best character for the genji-glove/offering combo, because this combo is effective as soon as you recieve, not just at lvl 99, this puts Locke up a few notches, and continues to do so. Speed, I have to admit may not be that big of a deal, however since Locke naturally is the fastest, this combo works best with him, since he will almost always attack first, so how can you possibly say that this does not make Locke better? I am willing to admit, that without the genji-glove/offering combo set on Locke, he isn't that great, but it's because he can attack first and being equipped with this that makes him a far better character during WoR, not just at lvl 99, as Shiki stated before...Locke - Speed/Equips, which is what makes him good in WoR. To shorten what I just said before, you don't need to be lvl 99 to have the genji-glove/offering combo become effective with Locke, it's an excellent combination right from the start.

To end, I have to say, that I agree with Shiki on his tiering of both the WoB and the WoR listing.

you don't even get locke still mid-late WoR, you'll probably get genji/offering way before you get locke. and because you get locke later than most, he'll have less "esper time" to partake of the bonuses.
and man, almost everyone is good with genji/offering, setzer's fixed dice, if obtained early in WoR is really good just with offering.
i believe that a reasonable endgame level is 40-50. with esper bonuses, magic dominates and physical attacks, while not doing 9999x8 (can locke even do that then?), can still do a healthy 3000x8 which should still be enough to kill most bosses... darn, you have to take 2 turns instead of 1? that's still broken.

don't get me wrong, locke is pimp but i always thought he was weak.

[Sonic_Reaper]

The Genji Glove/Offering crap is kinda moot people; most of the top tier can use that shit.

The only reason I'd rate Locke higher (and this reason has been constantly ignored throughout the thread since I brought it up, reason why I've kinda been avoiding the thread since); Wing Edge X2. Generally, Locke's equipment select isn't as good as the Armor Gods (Terra, Celes and Edgar), however, with Wing Edges, you're attacking from back row, increasing his defense, while maintaining a strong defence.

Giving Locke the Atma Weapon is a HUGE waste. It's better served to the "armor gods".

I'd also like to comment on Runic; it's hella useful for Dhullahan (renders his spells USELESS) and Kefka. I think people are too stupid/stubborn to use it or something.

Morph blows balls when you power-level since the boost will eventually mean didly squat. However Terra's still a strong contender.

And I still don't see how in holy hell Shadow's 7/10. His equipment select is pure unadulterated ass and he has to spend cash to do any damage (ie: throwing stars/skeans and weapons; don't tell me you can even think to afford Skeans in the WoB). AND, his spell list is SHIT in the WoB, meaning you have to build him from the ground up in the WoR.

Sabin's ultimate weapon sucks donkey balls - it's a waste of offering/genji. Shitty equipment and craptacular Blitz (due to sub-par magic) not a good character make.

[box]

Looks like everyone is in agreement about Locke. Lvl 99 Locke > lvl 99 whoever. But Lvl 50 Locke is pretty shitty compared to a lot of other lvl 50 characters.

Here's my lvl 50 rankings:

Top: Terra, Edgar, Celes, Gau
Mid: Shadow, Cyan, Setzer, Locke, Sabin, Relm
Low: Strago, Gogo, Mog
Bottom: Umaro

[Return of Shiki]

in that tier list i'm wondering why relm is only upper tier when she can hit 128 mblock and starts with the highest magpwr in the game, which are 1 and 2 on your criteria list.

she can't equip illumina, that's it, and if you're using magic all the time, who cares?

She's isn't top because there's nothing she does better than anyone else.

Terra, Celes, and Edgar have the best armor in the game
Locke has the best weapons.
Gau has broken rages and Wind God equipment.

You will, however, notice that Relm is the very top of the upper tier because her magic is that damn good and magic >>> everything in World of Ruin.

[Mert]

Looks like everyone is in agreement about Locke. Lvl 99 Locke > lvl 99 whoever. But Lvl 50 Locke is pretty shitty compared to a lot of other lvl 50 characters.

Here's my lvl 50 rankings:

Top: Terra, Edgar, Celes, Gau
Mid: Shadow, Cyan, Setzer, Locke, Sabin, Relm
Low: Strago, Gogo, Mog
Bottom: Umaro


AKA what I posted...

Except switch Mog and Locke...kinda.



http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/snes/file/final_fantasy_iii_rage_a.txt

Do a Ctrl+F search for "Legendary Tactics".


Dead link.

[Mert]

OK so final comment:


After checking out all of the info you guys gave me here are the changes:


Gau will be bumped up to a 9 for his Cat Scratch and good magic.

Locke will remain a 6...he is just average at level 50...IMO.

Edgar will remain a 9... he's just too damn good, thru out the whole game.

Cyan will become a 6...maybe just because of his "Retort glitch". What do you guys think? I myself think its pretty damn broken...but it takes so long because he's so weak in Imp form.



That would mean then that the best team in the game is:

Terra
Celes
Edgar
Gau

Terra: Gem Box, Economizer
Celes: Economizer, (?)
Edgar: Genji Glove, Offering (?)
Gau: Merrit Award, Genji Glove


?

Or would Edgar be removed for somebody else (Sabin, Setzer) who can use the Genji Glove better?

Also:

What would Celes' 2nd Relic be? Is it possible to get a 2nd gem box?

[shinobidj]

you have to copy and paste gamefaqs links, can't just click on 'em.

[Mert]

you have to copy and paste gamefaqs links, can't just click on 'em.


Still didnt work :sweat:

[Biggs]

Still didnt work :sweat:

Right click the link and choose copy shortcut(or "copy link location if you're using Firefox").


Meh, let me take the info from the FAQ

"--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10.3 Nightshade
**********************************

The NightShade Rage is so blindingly cheap, easily accessible and downside-
free you can seriously wonder if there never was supposed to be some kind of
defense against it...which the game obviously lacks now. Charm has been
discussed before in other FAQs - Assassin’s Lore FAQ, to name one - but for
purposes of completeness I will explain it here yet again. Charm sets a
specific kind of 'status' in which the affected targets acts like it's been
confused by something like Muddle or Stray's Cat Rain. This effect does *not*
go away when the target is struck by a physical attack, but while terribly
convenient in its own right, this isn't why Charm is such a game-destroyer.
Since it’s not an actual status, there can be no defense: Charm works
*always*. On every boss, from the undead Hidon to the invincible Guardian,
from the final Kefka to whatever part of the last battle. This could have been
fun had it been extremely rare, such as Joker Doom. However, the NightShade
Rage has a 50 % chance of using Charm, and with a Hit Rate of 80 (which indeed
means a 4/5 chance of hitting the target) you'll be able to eliminate
every challenge this game has with ease.

Charm, to elaborate a little more, creates a 'bond' between the target and the
caster. If either one dies the effects of the spell are over. If Gau or Gogo
has Charmed one target he cannot Charm another one until the first target
dies. If Gau has Charmed a monster which is then Charmed by Gogo, Gogo will
successfully 'steal' this target from Gau, creating a new bond between them.
Gau would then have a new capability of successfully Charming another target.
Or steal that thing right back :) Finally, Charm can co-exist with Muddle,
allowing both monsters and characters to use random moves out of their list
against the proper party, as the spells are re-directed twice. "

I recommend looking at the whole guide to see some of Gau's other decent rages.

[Mert]

Right click the link and choose copy shortcut(or "copy link location if you're using Firefox").


Meh, let me take the info from the FAQ

"--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10.3 Nightshade
**********************************

The NightShade Rage is so blindingly cheap, easily accessible and downside-
free you can seriously wonder if there never was supposed to be some kind of
defense against it...which the game obviously lacks now. Charm has been
discussed before in other FAQs - Assassin’s Lore FAQ, to name one - but for
purposes of completeness I will explain it here yet again. Charm sets a
specific kind of 'status' in which the affected targets acts like it's been
confused by something like Muddle or Stray's Cat Rain. This effect does *not*
go away when the target is struck by a physical attack, but while terribly
convenient in its own right, this isn't why Charm is such a game-destroyer.
Since it’s not an actual status, there can be no defense: Charm works
*always*. On every boss, from the undead Hidon to the invincible Guardian,
from the final Kefka to whatever part of the last battle. This could have been
fun had it been extremely rare, such as Joker Doom. However, the NightShade
Rage has a 50 % chance of using Charm, and with a Hit Rate of 80 (which indeed
means a 4/5 chance of hitting the target) you'll be able to eliminate
every challenge this game has with ease.

Charm, to elaborate a little more, creates a 'bond' between the target and the
caster. If either one dies the effects of the spell are over. If Gau or Gogo
has Charmed one target he cannot Charm another one until the first target
dies. If Gau has Charmed a monster which is then Charmed by Gogo, Gogo will
successfully 'steal' this target from Gau, creating a new bond between them.
Gau would then have a new capability of successfully Charming another target.
Or steal that thing right back :) Finally, Charm can co-exist with Muddle,
allowing both monsters and characters to use random moves out of their list
against the proper party, as the spells are re-directed twice. "

I recommend looking at the whole guide to see some of Gau's other decent rages.


Whoa...thanks alot man, thats cheesy ass shit! I never knew Charm worked on bosses. Then and again Vanish/Xzone works on 95% of bosses. But I know you can't do it on Kefka. Thats really good to know, thanks alot.

[Strike]

snip

Okay, I'll take back "Locke fans," but I think I was outnumbered 4-to-1 in that last thread where everyone basically jumped down my throat for saying ANYTHING bad about Locke. As for tiering overkill, I think most current RPGs aren't tiered this way because there is generally some sort of super boss(es) which merit the tiering of obscene damage. And personally, I don't think tiering games on overkill/obscene stat building is very accurate in how the majority plays (will anyone here agree to Chuchu in Xenogears having the best Gear because she can buy theorhetically as many expensive statup items as she wants and her Gear works off her stats? Probably not.) Take Final Fantasy 10. Tidus (Blitz Ace), Yuna (Mindy's Passedo), and Wakka (whatever his 15-hit limit break is called) are undoubtedly top-tier because their limit breaks hit 99999 damage for 12-15 times. This is not quite the same as Locke powerleveling to level 99 and hitting 9999 x8 because:

1. In FF10, when you powerlevel, there will still be super bosses/enemies that will survive that onslaught of damage. When there are bosses with millions of HP, Tidus's Blitz Ace hitting 15(?)x99999 is not overkill. It's high damage. Not to mention even at max Sphere Griding, the superbosses like Dark Aeons/Penetance are STILL capable of killing your characters.

2. In FF6, there are no super bosses/enemies. Locke hitting a 64000 HP Kefka at 9999x8 isn't high damage, it's overkill. If some other character hit 8000x8 instead, the end result is still the same right? Kefka posses no threat to actually eliminating your party whereas super bosses/enemies from FF10 actually can kill your party regardless of how strong they are. Most bosses in FF6 are in the 20000-50000 HP range anyway (and no normal enemies are even that high). So doing obscene damage isn't really that impressive in this game when the end result (dead enemies) is all the same.

With Genji Glove/Offering... again, you have to look at it either at low/"normal" levels; or overleveled/99 criteria. At "normal" levels (about endgame 40-50), Atma Weapon is not doing 9999 per hit. Setzer with his Fixed Dice and Offering will be crunching out more damage.

Attacking first isn't really that great of a thing though. It's attacking before the enemy that is important; which is probably the biggest reason why Locke's high speed is overrated. Locke can attack first, but then the other 3 will probably follow right behind him in turn... all of them moving before the enemies do. If Locke wasn't in the party, someone else would have gotten to move first and kill all the enemies with their own magic/attacks. If Locke's speed were somehow really that high where he goes first, then a set of speedy enemies go second, then the rest of the average/slower speed party members go next, then I could see a case for saying Locke's first strike opportunies to be worth mentioning. Since it majority of the time, the rest of the average/above average party members get their turn right after Locke, him going first isn't that great. As long as the character moves before the enemy (which most characters do), then having high speed to get the very first turn in the round isn't so hot.

As for Wing Edge x2 in the back row making Locke great, most characters operate from the back row anyway.
Terra/Celes/Relm: Magic
Edgar: Tools
Sabin: Blitz
Setzer: Fixed Dice + Offering and Slots (which can be rigged)
Gau: Rages (not the failed attacks)
Shadow: Throw
Strago: Lore/Magic
Mog: Dance/Jump
Gogo: Mimic

If you're playing the game through straight, without taking time out to powerlevel, all these characters above should be operating from the back row using almost exclusively the commands above. And all of those commands receive no back row penalty. Cyan is the only character who basically always has to stay upfront because SwdTech is row dependent. Which is one of the reasons why Cyan is bottom tier.

Shadow in the WoB should only be throwing Shirukens, which is godly powerful when you first get him, and will serve him until the WoB ends. 99 Shirukens costs 3000, which is less than most characters WoB equipment costs. Plus he can stay in the back row, plus Interceptor activates 50% of the time (which is basically free 50% dodge with counter attack). In WoR, other characters become broken, and Shadow slips.

"Armor Gods" is kind of deceptive because what exactly do you define as "good armor?" If you mean those who can reach 128% MBlock (which is basically the whole point of armor in this game), then Terra, Celes, Locke, Edgar, and Relm are best at that. Mog can reach 255 Defense, making him take 1 point damage from almost every attack because Snow Muffler is that good and his base defense is extremely high. As mentioned above, Shadow basically has built in 50% dodge regardless of his armor.

And finally Cyan. There's really noting good about him at all except his glitch, which is just that, a glitch. If you're going to take that into account, you might as well take into account Vanish/Doom or Relm's sketch glitch giving you possibly free 255 Illuminas and Atma Weapons. Plus the glitch itself is highly overrated. It takes time to set up (charge for Retort, Imp Cyan, kill Cyan, revive Cyan = psycho Cyan)... time which could've much easier have been used just killing the enemies outright with your other party members.

[Mert]

Thanks for all the info. And agreeing with me about how Locke isn't all he's cracked up to be.

[YahnV]

snip

I randomly have to agree that Chu-Chu is pretty tight.

[Mert]

I randomly have to agree that Chu-Chu is pretty tight.



Chu-Chu?:confused:

[InfiniDragon615]

Xenogears, man. It was a piece of Strike's post, keep up. :wgrin:

[Mert]

Ah ok then...

[Wentinel]

Could someone tell me the difference between v1.0 and v1.1 of FF6 (if anyone knows what I'm talking about)? Sorry to hijack the thread, but I didn't think it would be worth creating a new thread. :sweat:

[Jake]

Geez, why's everyone such a Cyan hater? Too many speed whores.

You only have 1 offering, what's the damage output of all these top tier chumps without their offering + gj? (Not as high as quadra slam/slice).

Cyan doesn't have to go first, he's not supposed to. You use your first 3 guys to do their thing and while you're waiting on them to take all day doing their 8 hits, 2 ultimas or whatever, cyan is sitting there building up his sword tech to 4 or 7 and it doesn't hinder you one bit.

If you were talking about soloing the game then he's terrible, but you got a 4 man team here and Cyan takes perfect advantage of your other 3 guys taking days to complete their commands, therefore the wait time on the sword tech is moot.

The faster your team is the worse he is, but end-game it seems it's all about the offering + gg and gem box and those give him plenty of time to sword tech.

Oh and at level 50, the person with offering + gg won't kill a high end boss and neither will the next 2, so Cyan will have his opportunity to at least get 1 quadra slice in.

I'd like to add that there really aren't that many weapons to go around and Cyan being able to use the sky render helps quite a bit, a perfect team member since someone else will be hogging the atma weapon/illumina.

[Mert]

Geez, why's everyone such a Cyan hater? Too many speed whores.

You only have 1 offering, what's the damage output of all these top tier chumps without their offering + gj? (Not as high as quadra slam/slice).

Cyan doesn't have to go first, he's not supposed to. You use your first 3 guys to do their thing and while you're waiting on them to take all day doing their 8 hits, 2 ultimas or whatever, cyan is sitting there building up his sword tech to 4 or 7 and it doesn't hinder you one bit.

If you were talking about soloing the game then he's terrible, but you got a 4 man team here and Cyan takes perfect advantage of your other 3 guys taking days to complete their commands, therefore the wait time on the sword tech is moot.

The faster your team is the worse he is, but end-game it seems it's all about the offering + gg and gem box and those give him plenty of time to sword tech.

Oh and at level 50, the person with offering + gg won't kill a high end boss and neither will the next 2, so Cyan will have his opportunity to at least get 1 quadra slice in.

I'd like to add that there really aren't that many weapons to go around and Cyan being able to use the sky render helps quite a bit, a perfect team member since someone else will be hogging the atma weapon/illumina.


I'm not a hater, I actually love Cyan. He's one of my favorite characters, he's just not very good. The thing is you totally fergot to mention his magic, which is atrocerous. He can be easily replaced by Gogo as well. Sword Tech gets blown away by Genji Glove/Offering anyway. Let me give you some perspective:

Team:
Setzer
Terra
Locke
Cyan

Let's say the ATP goes in this order: Locke, Setzer, Terra, Cyan. Locke does his genji glove. Setzer does Genji Glove/Offering. Terra does X-Magic Ultima. Assuming Terra does 9999 with Ultima (very easy) thats 19998. That kills most bosses, not to include Locke and Setzer doing a combline about 30000.

Even not at level 99, the same thing would happen. Terra can still do 9999 x2 in Esper. Locke would still do good damage and Setzer's fixed dice would still rock.


Trust me, I'm not Cyan hater. He just gets overshadowed by Genji Glove/ Offering. That and the lack of speed and magic.

[Jake]

You just completely ignored all my rebuttals with the exception of the magic comment. Why does his magic matter? The other 2 non-gg/offering characters will be using it while Cyan won't be. Cyan has the most damage output of any character that's not using gg/offering and he can even use the gg/offering combo it'd just be dumb to put it on him.

[Mert]

Cyan has the most damage output of any character that's not using gg/offering


Take any decent magic user and give them the Gem box.

Cyans Quadra Slice: 3000 x4 hits
Ultima + Gem Box: 9999 x2 Hits


Cyan: 12000
Spell Caster: 19998


Not to mention Ultima hits all and Quadra Slice doesn't.


So if your facing 2 opponents:

Total Damage:
Cyan: 12000
Spell Caster: 39996

And you can't control who Cyan hits with Quadra Slice, plus charge time. So what if your fighting a boss with multiple parts? Whos to say that he will even touch the main part of the boss.


Outside of that, your right though. No other character can break 9999 w/o Gem box or Genji Glove/Offering(Besides Gogo of course with SwordTech). Considering Gem Box and Genji Glove/Offering are in the game though, Cyan isn't good.

Cyan can be OK though if you give him Running Shoes. It doesn't affect his charge time but he has better speed at least. Does the Hyper Wrist affect the amount of damage his SwordTech does?

[Mert]

One question:


I'm going to try to raise a good Gau. What esper stats boosts should I give him? I know about catscrach and all that jazz but should i raise vigor? Cuz i thought it ignores defense properties. THanks in advance.

[Mert]

BUMP for my Gau question.

[Zaelar]

If your only using stray cat, speed/vigor. Vigor barely helps though, and speed is only noticable in bulk.

[Mert]

If your only using stray cat, speed/vigor. Vigor barely helps though, and speed is only noticable in bulk.



So what your saying is that I dont REALLY have to Esper level him? But if I do I might as well go for speed and a little more attack?

[Zaelar]

Or just get magic for when you realize there are other things you can do with him.

Random Gau things since he seems to be the topic of choice:

For those who don't know how rage works:
1) Fight a random enemy formation.
2) Go to the Veldt and have gau leap on an enemy you want to rage for
3) Keep fighting on the Veldt, and when Gau comes back, he'll have the rages for the enemies that were there when he leaped and returned.

When you use rage, Gau goes into an uncontrollable state, randomly using attack or the special ability of the rage 50% of the time. He also gains any status/elemental immunities/strengths/weaknesses of the monster while raging.

Wind god Gau - Equip merit award, tempest, and offerring. Use stray cat. Random 4x damage to all enemies due to tempest's random MT wind attack, and stray cat's catscratch attack, which has a 4x damage multiplier. Works without offerring, but is less effective. Can also use primordite rage to get an MT stop. Doesn't work in anthology due to Gau not being able to equip the merit award, but you can still do this with Gogo.

"The only downside of the Wind God is that it is, in fact, a Wind God.
Monsters who are immune to Wind are Flan, Ifrit, Io, Muus, Naughty, Nerapa,
Shiva, Tritoch and Zone Eater; monsters who absorbs this element include Atma,
Evil Oscar, Girl (The angel head from Tier 3), Hidonite (Bottom left),
Intangir, L.90 Magic, Larry, Magic Urn, Poltrgeist, Storm Drgn and Woolly."
- Djibreal's rage guide

Nightshade rage - *is banned in pretty much any challenge ever concieved, and is usually not used in normal playthroughs either* Its special attack, charm, is basically a confuse that is completely unavoidable(although its accuracy is 80%), and works on every enemy in the game(including bosses).

Deep Eye rage - Its specialty, dread is a petrification attack that doesn't check for instant death protection(break and shoat both do). The enemies that it matters on are:

"Hazer, Baskervor, Suriander, Gilomantis, Pug, Wart Puck, Vectaur, Brontaur,
Cephaler, Gigan Toad, Spek Tor, Latimeria, Lunaris, Nastidon, Karkass, Borras
Trixter, Dadaluma, Tentacle x3, Hidonite, Naughty"
- Djibreal's rage guide

Or in other words: Pug.

Magic Urn rage: Just flat out defencive. I personally don't like it, but it is worth mentioning. Random cure3 is nice, and it has every protection you could want.

Io rage: It's attack, flare star, does very well against certain bosses.

From Djibreal's rage guide:
Ice Drgn | 9999 +
Doom Gaze | 9999 +
Tritoch | 9920 +
Skull Drgn | 9920 +
SrBehemoth (Undead)| 7840 +
SrBehemoth (Living)| 6880 +
Chadarnook (Demon) | 6560 +
Storm Drgn | 5920
Chadarnook (Woman) | 5920 +
Master Pug | 5840
Kefka | 5680
Goddess | 5440
Atma | 5360
Guardian | 5360
Umaro | 5280 +
Gold Drgn | 4960
KatanaSoul | 4880

A + means that this enemy is weak to fire. In practice, all that means is that anyone without a + can be made weak to fire with the debilitator to double the damage.

Retainer rage: Uses shock. Other than being MT and nonelemental, its not that good. Use a rename card on Gau and change his name to Leo and use this rage and return to Leo's grave and summon and defeat sephiroth who then drops a potion that revives Leo but he's a zombie and attacks you and you have to use this rage with Gau named Leo to get him to remember who he is and he'll join your party. ...or not.

Woolly rage: Casts a nice Ice 3, absorbs several elements, and its fire weakness can be negated by equipment. If you can't think of what rage to use, aren't in a wind god Gau setup, and your opponent isnt immune/absorbs ice, this one is a good choice.

[Mert]

Or just get magic for when you realize there are other things you can do with him.

Random Gau things since he seems to be the topic of choice:

For those who don't know how rage works:
1) Fight a random enemy formation.
2) Go to the Veldt and have gau leap on an enemy you want to rage for
3) Keep fighting on the Veldt, and when Gau comes back, he'll have the rages for the enemies that were there when he leaped and returned.

When you use rage, Gau goes into an uncontrollable state, randomly using attack or the special ability of the rage 50% of the time. He also gains any status/elemental immunities/strengths/weaknesses of the monster while raging.

Wind god Gau - Equip merit award, tempest, and offerring. Use stray cat. Random 4x damage to all enemies due to tempest's random MT wind attack, and stray cat's catscratch attack, which has a 4x damage multiplier. Works without offerring, but is less effective. Can also use primordite rage to get an MT stop. Doesn't work in anthology due to Gau not being able to equip the merit award, but you can still do this with Gogo.

"The only downside of the Wind God is that it is, in fact, a Wind God.
Monsters who are immune to Wind are Flan, Ifrit, Io, Muus, Naughty, Nerapa,
Shiva, Tritoch and Zone Eater; monsters who absorbs this element include Atma,
Evil Oscar, Girl (The angel head from Tier 3), Hidonite (Bottom left),
Intangir, L.90 Magic, Larry, Magic Urn, Poltrgeist, Storm Drgn and Woolly."
- Djibreal's rage guide

Nightshade rage - *is banned in pretty much any challenge ever concieved, and is usually not used in normal playthroughs either* Its special attack, charm, is basically a confuse that is completely unavoidable(although its accuracy is 80%), and works on every enemy in the game(including bosses).

Deep Eye rage - Its specialty, dread is a petrification attack that doesn't check for instant death protection(break and shoat both do). The enemies that it matters on are:

"Hazer, Baskervor, Suriander, Gilomantis, Pug, Wart Puck, Vectaur, Brontaur,
Cephaler, Gigan Toad, Spek Tor, Latimeria, Lunaris, Nastidon, Karkass, Borras
Trixter, Dadaluma, Tentacle x3, Hidonite, Naughty"
- Djibreal's rage guide

Or in other words: Pug.

Magic Urn rage: Just flat out defencive. I personally don't like it, but it is worth mentioning. Random cure3 is nice, and it has every protection you could want.

Io rage: It's attack, flare star, does very well against certain bosses.

From Djibreal's rage guide:
Ice Drgn | 9999 +
Doom Gaze | 9999 +
Tritoch | 9920 +
Skull Drgn | 9920 +
SrBehemoth (Undead)| 7840 +
SrBehemoth (Living)| 6880 +
Chadarnook (Demon) | 6560 +
Storm Drgn | 5920
Chadarnook (Woman) | 5920 +
Master Pug | 5840
Kefka | 5680
Goddess | 5440
Atma | 5360
Guardian | 5360
Umaro | 5280 +
Gold Drgn | 4960
KatanaSoul | 4880

A + means that this enemy is weak to fire. In practice, all that means is that anyone without a + can be made weak to fire with the debilitator to double the damage.

Retainer rage: Uses shock. Other than being MT and nonelemental, its not that good. Use a rename card on Gau and change his name to Leo and use this rage and return to Leo's grave and summon and defeat sephiroth who then drops a potion that revives Leo but he's a zombie and attacks you and you have to use this rage with Gau named Leo to get him to remember who he is and he'll join your party. ...or not.

Woolly rage: Casts a nice Ice 3, absorbs several elements, and its fire weakness can be negated by equipment. If you can't think of what rage to use, aren't in a wind god Gau setup, and your opponent isnt immune/absorbs ice, this one is a good choice.


Thanks a lot! This is EXTREMLY HELPFUL! I just started my new game and realized how much of a beast Gau is. I'll keep my eye out for these new Rages!

:rofl: to the Retainer rage

[Zaelar]

Rages that have level 2 spells or mt elemental attacks are pretty usefull in wob. I don't remember them all though.

Offerring is only (really)good on wind god Gau/Gogo, Setzer w/ fixed dice, and w/ Genji Gloves, Atma Weapon, and Valiant Knife on Locke. Of course doing 8 attacks with anyone will turn them into an offencive powerhouse, but these uses just far outshine others. It also leaves you vulnerable as you lose a key defence slot(a shield). Illumina doesn't go well with offerring as it disables its auto-crit feature, and is best put to use on a 128% mblock setup. And since the offerring cuts your damage by 1/4, your not getting much(if anything) out of it if your not doing over 9999 anyway. Its good against cactaurs though.

Sabin is low tier. Deal with it. He's only particularly useful against bosses when you first get him, in both wob and wor.

Mblock is a very important stat. There is a bug that uses mblock instead of evade for physical attacks, so getting 128% mblock means you are effectively immune to any evadable attack, both physical and magical. If you know where to go, this is doable fairly early in wor. As a side effect of that bug, the evade stat is useless. The darkness effect works to cut your physical attack accuracy in half by doubleing your target's evade stat. Since your accuracy is determined by mblock instead, darkness does nothing. The goggles relic prevent's darkness, which in turn comes "The goggles, they do nothing!". Most monsters(I think about 90%) have 0% mblock, so accuracy isn't a problem.

Elemental rods(ie fire rod, ect.) when used as an item in battle cast a level 2 spell of that element. This spell ignores defence, unlike the normal spell. Typically in challenges and even normal playthroughs, people only use rods that are found in chests(ie not bought), as they are very strong.

Feeding Cid faster moving fish is how you make him live. Feeding Cid slower moving fish is how you get to see a scene you wouldn't get to see if he lived.(other than which scene you see, him living/dieing makes no other difference, other than him walking around should you return to visit).

[Mert]

Offerring is only (really)good on wind god Gau/Gogo, makes no other difference, other than him walking around should you return to visit).



I've been fucking around with Merrit Award on Gau and I can't decide what's the best. I mean Wind God is fucking amazing. But...if your fighting only one opponent you can either use Genji Glove/Offering or Offering/Merrit Award. If you use Genji Glove/ Offering you can still equip 2 Imp Hallibards on Gau(cuz everybody can equip them) so that he does 8 Cat Scratches for a bit more damage than usual. Or if you just have the Offering on you can put your most powerful weapon on and Cat Scratch can do 9999 x4. If you put any weapon on Gau that has an elemental attached to it, the elemental attack will come out. For example I had Genji Glove/Merrit Award on him with the Pearl Rod and Pearl Lance. The Cat Scratch alone did 9999 (to the dinosaurs in the forrest in WOR) then ontop of that it did 9999 if Pearl came out (about 25%) of the time. Wind God is probally the way to go though, because it hits all.


Quick question:

I'm using Relm on my team and sometimes the game freezes/glitches when I use Sketch...can somebody tell me whats up?

[Zaelar]

Sketch glitch. Basically if you sketch something that shouldn't normally be sketchable, you get wierd effects, with varrying results between getting several rare items, and all of your save data's being erased. It was discovered how it worked a year or so ago, but I don't know the details offhand. There isn't much in the game worth sketching anyway. Just avoid sketching things like vanished enemies, gau when he returns from the veldt, and things of that sort and you should be ok.

You can get a decent supply of genji gloves if you stole them from the dragons on floating continent when you had the chance. Even if you didn't you could still have more than one. On the other hand, there is only one offerring, so if your using locke or setzer in your party, I'd give it to them as Gau can still do good things without it. If your not, its probably best put to use on Gau.

[Mert]

Sketch glitch. Basically if you sketch something that shouldn't normally be sketchable, you get wierd effects, with varrying results between getting several rare items, and all of your save data's being erased. It was discovered how it worked a year or so ago, but I don't know the details offhand. There isn't much in the game worth sketching anyway. Just avoid sketching things like vanished enemies, gau when he returns from the veldt, and things of that sort and you should be ok.




Hmm...I was in the Pheonix Cave when it happened. Oh well.






You can get a decent supply of genji gloves if you stole them from the dragons on floating continent when you had the chance. Even if you didn't you could still have more than one. On the other hand, there is only one offerring, so if your using locke or setzer in your party, I'd give it to them as Gau can still do good things without it. If your not, its probably best put to use on Gau.


I got 4 Genji Gloves w/o stealing any. This is the same method I had, the fact that there are multiple Genji Gloves and only one Offering makes you think who you equip it on. Gau can do 9999 x 2 if he has good equipments on with the Genji GLove. I dont think any other character can reach 9999 with thier attack, let alone have it hit all (Wind God). So unless you have Gau and 3 magic casters, dont give the Offering to Gau, he won't need it.

[Zaelar]

Or just don't use the offerring. Its extremely overrated. If its helping, you don't need its help.

[Mert]

If its helping, you don't need its help.


Sorry I don't understand this...please elaborate. Thanks.

[Magulorist]

Have anyone ever wonder about the possibility that some representative or worker from Square enix might tell their supervisor all this glitch and bug and unbrokeness of FF3/6?
Then we have to find new ways to exploit the system.

[shadowcharlie]

i wouldnt mind too mcuh since it would be intresting i mean the way the game is now potentially every boss and enemy is a joke and that gets old

[Mert]

Have anyone ever wonder about the possibility that some representative or worker from Square enix might tell their supervisor all this glitch and bug and unbrokeness of FF3/6?
Then we have to find new ways to exploit the system.


They should include secret bosses (like in FF10) that were really powerful and hard to beat at level 99. I heard they were gonna make it for GBA/DS, if they do I hope they include secret doungens at the end like in FF1 for GBA.

[9999]

They should include secret bosses (like in FF10) that were really powerful and hard to beat at level 99. I heard they were gonna make it for GBA/DS, if they do I hope they include secret doungens at the end like in FF1 for GBA.
And like FFIV, Im sure they'll add all sorts of goodies, but besides that, theres plenty of patches out there that fix/add things to the game.

[Zaelar]

Offerring cuts your damage of each attack by 1/2 and you lose any chance of a critical hit, even auto-crit. It also disables random spell procs. You can't controll who you attack, but that doesn't matter on solo enemies or if used by Gau. Its so good on Setzer because it doesn't cut dice damage. It also gives auto-hit, but its not like your missing against many things in the first place. Good on cactaurs though.

Offerring only shines after your breaking 9999 on attacks, IE when you don't need any help. While not bad by any means, its not necessary either.

Outside of the sketch bug, nothing went fixed in the playstation version, and all of it was known before it came out.

[Mert]

Offerring cuts your damage of each attack by 1/2 and you lose any chance of a critical hit, even auto-crit. It also disables random spell procs. You can't controll who you attack, but that doesn't matter on solo enemies or if used by Gau. Its so good on Setzer because it doesn't cut dice damage. It also gives auto-hit, but its not like your missing against many things in the first place. Good on cactaurs though.

Offerring only shines after your breaking 9999 on attacks, IE when you don't need any help. While not bad by any means, its not necessary either.

Outside of the sketch bug, nothing went fixed in the playstation version, and all of it was known before it came out.


Ah thanks a lot. I didn't notice it cutting damage in half. In that case does that mean that a Genji Glove is just as good or even better than the Offering? Think about it. For example test Shadow's attack w/o any relics on. Say he does 2000. So if you put the Offering on it should do: 2000x4 /2 ... or 4000. Then if you take Shadow and give him the Genji Glove and give him two of the same weapons shouldnt he do 2000 * 2 which would give you 4000? So the only way the Offering is good is if its pair with the Genji Glove? I kinda find the Offering annoying anyway, it takes so damn long to do one attack. Thanks again for the info, I'll be sure to include that.





And like FFIV, Im sure they'll add all sorts of goodies, but besides that, theres plenty of patches out there that fix/add things to the game.


What patches would/should be made?

[IceBeast]

Quadra Slice sucks. In fact, Dispatch is his ONLY good tech and that's for the glitch.


bitch... dont even go there! Cyan is ace and his slices are > Pizza!

[Mert]

bitch... dont even go there! Cyan is ace and his slices are > Pizza!


Eek! I duno bout' that. I mean Quadra Slam is so so so good whne you first get it. After that, Cyan's low speed, lack of magic and Swd Tech charge time all add up to make him bad. I just played thru the game with him and found him decent at best. If you have him go last out of your party's turn, he's not terrible. With the Running Shoes and Hyper Wrist he's good. JUst have him be an attacker and not magic caster.

[9999]

Well for patches, if you can tolerate the gamefaqs message board, theyll guide you to all sorts of cool patches.

[Zaelar]

Offerring is a lot better than genji gloves simply because you get to use a shield.

Genji gloves suck..only good for locke and catscratch.

...Yes I loved them when I first played too. Then I realized the awsomeness of white cape x2. (20% mblock)

Cyan sucks too. Yeah..I used him when I first played too.

Tidbit: Genji gloves are supposed to cut your damage by 25% when you use two weapons, but there is a bug and it instead reduces your damage by 25% when you use one weapon.

[Th3 0N3]

once you hit that 9999 cap in damage, having offering at higher lvls actually does meet up. at lvl 99 w/ sabin(saying he has 2 tiger fangs) depending on whom you're fighting you could be dishing out 9999 with each of those 8 attacks. even on a high lvl creature, you could still be pushing a over 6k per strike.

mert: there is actually an unknown dragon in the game that can only be seen through the games engine. don't think anyone has figured a way to fight that dragon yet.

[YahnV]

bitch... dont even go there! Cyan is ace and his slices are > Pizza!

Sorry, I think Cyan is tight but he sucks.

[Th3 0N3]

end game, cyan isn't really needed. but due do his genji/offering capabilities, he is ok. but we're not looking for 'ok'..

early game cyan is great. before offering, cyan is up there if you ask me.

[Warpticon]

I just wanted to post to say that I now consider everyone in this thread to be part of a group. call it the FF3/6 Mafia.

[Zaelar]

This is funnier than a mvc2 tier thread on a final fantasy message board.

...and sadder.

[Th3 0N3]

meh.. i like the game. would be better if they did a total remake of it like they're doing for FF7.

[Mert]

Thanks again for the imput everyone.

Zealar, the shield thing is good, I fergot about that. the Genji Glove does give you a bit of Def. boost though...of course +3+4 Def. is nothing compared to the Paladin Shield or something.

[Th3 0N3]

pali shield should be weilded by one of your casters not on your main melee. i always keep terra and celes as my casters. to me they are most Uber.

jw, got any thing on the Coliseum?

[Mert]

pali shield should be weilded by one of your casters not on your main melee. i always keep terra and celes as my casters. to me they are most Uber.

jw, got any thing on the Coliseum?


Just look for one on gamefaqs.

[Th3 0N3]

nah i was asking weather or not you were gonna include. because i could throw tips too.

[Mert]

nah i was asking weather or not you were gonna include. because i could throw tips too.


Ohh ok thanks anyway.

[Zaelar]

I don't know if anyone is interested, but I started modding a hard version. Nothing too fancy planned, just some number changes and bug fixes.

[Mert]

I don't know if anyone is interested, but I started modding a hard version. Nothing too fancy planned, just some number changes and bug fixes.


I'm intrested!




mert: there is actually an unknown dragon in the game that can only be seen through the games engine. don't think anyone has figured a way to fight that dragon yet.



You should add this in there. :)

[9999]

^^^the Czar Dragon. He was supposed to come out and fight you after you defeated the original 8 dragons, but the only action he still has in the engine is the 'fight' command.

[js2756]

Ah thanks a lot. I didn't notice it cutting damage in half. In that case does that mean that a Genji Glove is just as good or even better than the Offering? Think about it. For example test Shadow's attack w/o any relics on. Say he does 2000. So if you put the Offering on it should do: 2000x4 /2 ... or 4000. Then if you take Shadow and give him the Genji Glove and give him two of the same weapons shouldnt he do 2000 * 2 which would give you 4000? So the only way the Offering is good is if its pair with the Genji Glove? I kinda find the Offering annoying anyway, it takes so damn long to do one attack. Thanks again for the info, I'll be sure to include that.

What patches would/should be made?

Problem with Genji vs Offering is that you need 2 equivalent weapons for Genji to be equivalent to Offering. You aren't gonna find 2 Illuminas or Stunners in the game, and so Offering brings more to the table in terms of sheer damage. Of course, this ignores the fact that Offering negates many special abilities that some weapons have (ie. Illumina's critical for MP ability).

There were a bunch of patches made by some of the people at GameFAQs who actually hacked the rom and figured out all the algorithms for the game. Most of the patches were to include new super monsters for you to fight as well as new weapons and armor.

[Zaelar]

I'm sure a patch where you can fight czar dragon in dino forest has been done. Would take anyone set up for modding about five minutes. Technically, he only has the "Battle" command. 60001 HP, Immune to every bad status in the book -slow +vanish. No drops or steals.

[Akutabi Gamma]

I find Cyan pretty cool IMO.
OK a question- when doing Sabin's scenario after the river, where is a good place to Level up?

[Mert]

I find Cyan pretty cool IMO.
OK a question- when doing Sabin's scenario after the river, where is a good place to Level up?

There really is no great place to train durring Sabin's scenario. Here's why:


If you train when you have Shadow, pre Ghost Train, then you run the risk of him leaving your party and you really need him in the Ghost Train.

If you train on the Train, there isn't really anything wrong with training here except for the really low amount of EXP you get, espically for the difficulty of the fights.

You can't train on the Veldt because you don't get EXP there.

You don't want to train right now because you can't get the Esper level bonuses.



Just wait til you get at least some Espers before you train.

[Zaelar]

You really don't need Shadow in the Ghost Train. Maybe if you're under leveled and don't have any fenix downs...

But other than that you are correct.

Edit: Its not like you have much of a choice of where to level after serpent trench anyway.

[Mert]

You really don't need Shadow in the Ghost Train. Maybe if you're under leveled and don't have any fenix downs...

But other than that you are correct.

Edit: Its not like you have much of a choice of where to level after serpent trench anyway.


Yeah good point. Quick question: If Shadow isn't on your team durring the Ghost Train, can youhave 2 Ghosts on your party?

[fishjie]

Use a rename card on Gau and change his name to Leo and use this rage and return to Leo's grave and summon and defeat sephiroth who then drops a potion that revives Leo but he's a zombie and attacks you and you have to use this rage with Gau named Leo to get him to remember who he is and he'll join your party. ...or not.


ARE YOU SERIOUS? I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF THIS BEFORE!!!

holy shit this blows my mind.

[Mert]

ARE YOU SERIOUS? I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF THIS BEFORE!!!

holy shit this blows my mind.



:rofl: :rofl:




Please tell me you know its a joke.

[FatalFuryD]

Dude, he's fishjie, of course he's jokin.

Alright I don't really play RPGs that much any more, but this thread reeaally makes me want to play FF6 again lol. So I'm going to try a speed run on it. Yall wanna recommend me some good characters for speed runs?

[fishjie]

DAMNIT I WAS GONNA GO AND CHECK IT OUT I WAS SO EXCITED

:sad: :mad: :sad: :mad: :sad: :mad: :sad: :mad:

[9999]

Dude, he's fishjie, of course he's jokin.

Alright I don't really play RPGs that much any more, but this thread reeaally makes me want to play FF6 again lol. So I'm going to try a speed run on it. Yall wanna recommend me some good characters for speed runs?
Well, you HAVE to get Edgar, Setzer, and Celes in the WoR, so maybe one of those three.

[Mert]

DAMNIT I WAS GONNA GO AND CHECK IT OUT I WAS SO EXCITED

:sad: :mad: :sad: :mad: :sad: :mad: :sad: :mad:



:rofl: again

[Zaelar]

You can get two ghosts if you don't have Shadow on the Ghost train. IIRC The second one weaker than the first.

I've never cared to do a speed run, but I figure getting Mog in wor asap is important. With moogle charm you can quickly get other characters and good equipment. Helps in a llg too.

[Mert]

I'm working on rasing all my characters to level 99. So far I got Gau, Shadow, Relm and Cyan. Fuck...its a lot of work. I have 4 Exp. Eggs and I'm training in the Tyranosaur/Bronotaur forrest, is there any better way to train? And also, I've fought about 100 Bronotosaurs and only got 1 Economizer...and last time I played FF3 and fought them I got Economizers more frequently, is there something in particular you have to do to get an Economizer?

[js2756]

No, there really isn't a better place to train. Frankly, it shouldn't be all that much work, since you should be levelling up every character in at most 12 fights. The drop rate for rare items is 1/8 (assuming the monster actually drops an item), so it shouldn't be all that common to get a lot of economizers. Considering how good osmose is in this game, economizers aren't all that useful anyways.

[Mert]

No, there really isn't a better place to train. Frankly, it shouldn't be all that much work, since you should be levelling up every character in at most 12 fights. The drop rate for rare items is 1/8 (assuming the monster actually drops an item), so it shouldn't be all that common to get a lot of economizers. Considering how good osmose is in this game, economizers aren't all that useful anyways.


Yeah but I left all my chars at low levels so I could esper level them. So some of my characters are level 25 or so...you do the math :-P. 12 times 74...yeah haha. And yeah I just want economizers because their just useful, I don't think their a necessity I just like the have them. Thanks for the quick response.


Another ? about Gau, what is the combonation of relics/equipments to have on him? His Catscrach with offering does 9999. So if I have the Wind God equipment, will he do 9999 x4 on all? Or is there a way to get Genji Glove offering to work with him? (Catscratch x8)


I found a good use for Cyan, btw. If you have him cast quick, he can do Quarda Slice x2 without having to worry about taking damage, because he can charge when he has Quick on, and everybody else can't take any actions. So my Cyan does 9999 x8 w/o Genji Glove Offering. Of course everybody else can use the Genji Glove/Offering with Quick an do their attack x16. I