CvS2: Character // Counter-Character

[b0kch0yb0y]

Okay, in tournaments, it's a good idea to have counter-characters to characters whom you have trouble fighting against, top-tier characters, and commonly used characters. List your Character // Counter-Character matchups, and explain them...

Here are mine. Keep in mind that Counter-Character does not imply that you will always win with this matchup. It merely implies that I find myself with the upper hand.

Sagat // Athena: All of Sagats jumping and hopping attacks lose to Athena's c.HP. On the ground, c.HP beats all of Sagat's normals too, with the exception of Sagat's own c.HP which trades. This stunts Sagat's ability to attack her, while Athena can run away and throw Psycho Balls to build meter for free, which is best used towards her killer Custom Combos.

Blanka // Hibiki: If Blanka leaves the ground, Hibiki can s.HP him down in under almost any circumstances. Hops are harder to react with s.HP, so c.HP works well or hop straight up and HP. On the ground, and blocked HP/HK attack or ball results in a free slash for Hibiki. Hibiki can cement her feet to the ground and still beat Blanka.

Vega // Chun-Li: Chun-Li's got the best air game in all of CvS2, which is the best way to get around Vega's killer ground game. Vega has trouble dealing with Chun-Li's j.LK, especially as a crossover. Free jump-ins are always a good thing. If Vega decides to jump or barcelona, a c.HK or a j.MK will take him down.

Bison // Sagat: I find Sagat's fierces to absolutely maul Bison, especially s.HP. Just stay in a good range (just outside sweep distance), and poke Bison to death. Pay attention to whether Bison is charged or not and be more careful when he is charged or else you'll eat a RC Psycho Crusher...

Anyone else??

[box]

Actually Vega counters Chun-Li IMO.

Chun-Li can't do much about Vega's crouching MP... and if she tries to cross up Vega can just walk back and HK her. Also Vega jumping HP beats out Chun's crouching HK.

[Rolling Start]

Hmmm...

Blanka//Honda. c.mp beats blanka c.fp, headbutt beats ball, honda is fat.

Yamazaki//Rolento. Yamazaki is all about cntrolling space, and with Rolento bouncing all over the fucking screen, what can Yamazaki do? No snake hands, and pretty much no s.rh either, cause Rolento is rarely in that range.

Hibiki//Balrog. Hibiki can't use her qcf+p, EVER, against balrog, cause hit or blocked he can either jab dash straight or either lv3 super. Someone should elaborate on this though, because hibiki can use certain pokes against Balrog really effectively, but Balrog might have counter-pokes, so i really don't know.

Any of these could be complete bullshit, so please correct me.

[Mummy-B]

Originally posted by Rolling Start
Hmmm...

Blanka//Honda. c.mp beats blanka c.fp, headbutt beats ball, honda is fat.


That's the secret to the whole match up, you know.

[UltraScrub]

You know there was a counter team thread: http://shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8892&perpage=15&pagenumber=3

In a Hibiki//Balrog match, true Hibiki can't use qcf+p ever because it can be freely punished, but I read Hibiki doesn't need that move to win this match. She can sit back and crouching jab/fierce for 99 seconds and probably win. Just don't eat a super. I forgot where I read this, and I haven't really tried it.

The most commonly mentioned Hibiki counter is PsychoBison, especially with low jumps. Once the knee presses come out, she gets really jammed. I read that in Buktooth's old Hibiki thread.

[Rolling Start]

I seem to remember that rog can outpoke her with something though...c.mk? I really can't remember...

[Gethy]

Virtually Anyone//Rock

RC'd rage runs through fireballs equates to a free combo. In N groove, you can cancel a run into an RC'd rage run, this is advantageous because of the distance nature rage runs carry with 'em. lk = free knock down, mk = combo, hk = easy 360 throw combo start. His run goes underneath Sagat's high fb. Um... you really can't go wrong with Rock as far as most things go. He's always worth mentioning as a counter measure. Not to mention, you can always poke pretty fuckin' well with him. A well timed ragining storm is another benefit to a good rock.

[b0kch0yb0y]

box>> Yeah, that's possible... Well, a lot of it depends on the metagame and who you're playing against, but yeah, the match might not favor Chun-Li as much as I think.

RollingStart>> Yup. Blanka//Honda I agree with. Same with Yamazaki//Rolento, but I don't have to deal with many Yamazaki's here. As for Hibiki, I'd have to go with Chun-Li or Bison or Rolento. As for Balrog over Hibiki, I think the match is in Hibiki's favor, but not by much. In any case, I don't think Balrog is a Hibiki counter...not for those reasons anways. Hibiki can hit Balrog with the swipe when Balrog isn't charged.

Mummy-B>> Not necessarily. Raiden is fatter than Honda (in terms of volume AND weight), but he still sucks ass.

Ultrascrub>> Yup, I agree with you there. Bison rapes Hibiki for free. Headstomps and Devil's Reverse beats out that s.HP, and once Bison starts making Hibiki blocking hits, she's screwed.

Gethy>> That's retarded. Get the fuck out of my thread.

[Gethy]

Such hostility.

:lol:

Man, put your penis back in your pants.

[b0kch0yb0y]

"Virtually Anyone//Rock"

That's the most brilliant thing I've ever heard...

Does anyone have anything INTELLIGENT to add?

[Mummy-B]

Originally posted by b0kch0yb0y


Mummy-B>> Not necessarily. Raiden is fatter than Honda (in terms of volume AND weight), but he still sucks ass.


Dare I remind you of B5?

[b0kch0yb0y]

Originally posted by Mummy-B


Dare I remind you of B5?

Oh god. *Shits pants*

[Psylocke]

i think hibiki can beat balrog.... only an experienced hibiki player though.... her pokes are just better...

Psy

[Renegade]

Rugal vs Cammy

Rugal's low RH straight up beats cannon Drill. Rugal's crouch fierce beats anything that cammy can throw out at that range. Cammy has to make him whiff to get in.

Vega vs Rugal

Low Fierce beats air dive. Vega's pokes are better, and beat almost all of Rugals. Key is never ever jump. The only thing Rugal has is jump back fierce (that beats everything Vega throws out).

Bison vs Hibiki

any QCF Slash or Running Slash by Hibiki equals free RH Scissors or SUper physcho crusher. Also, Hibiki can't stop the scissor links.

Bison vs Dan

Don't laugh. Dan can't retaliate Bison's Phycho crusher. Only a lvl 3 uppercut super will hit him, and that only one time or so.

Hibiki vs Honda

Honda simply gets destroyed by Hibiki. Any blocked headbutt is free QCF+ Slash. And She can Slash all day unless Honda has a Lvl 3 super (only way he can retaliate).
All of her moves beat Headbutts, pokes, and jump ins. Simply put, Hibiki is the better turtle.

[b0kch0yb0y]

Psylocke>> Nobody said that Hibiki can't beat Balrog.

We're talking about Counter-Characters who have favorable matchups.

Renegade>> Does Dan really need a counter character?

[Rokiseph]

Hoohoo

Dan Retaliates PsychoBison's Psycho Crusher with his S.MP. I do it All the time. It's a Free given. Hp too.

[Renegade]

Roki, you sure? I have to try it out. Dan doesn't have any normal that's in the range of the normals most other chars use to hit bison.

No, dan doesn't need a counter char... but if I'm right, it makes the match 10-0 for Bison.

Robin

[LazyJ]

vega / / rugal : rugal can throw ground fireballs and vega cant throw a fireball back at him. vega can only jump at him. when he jumps do genocide cutter. rugal wins for free.

cammy / / balrog : balrog can stay far away and punch her in the mouth with st. fierce. if she gets too close then he can do st. punch because if they get hit they move back and if they block they move back. if she jumps he can do down fierce and punch her out of the air.

bison / / hibiki : bison cant win because if he does psycho crusher she can block and do qcf jab and slice his ass. if bison does slide then she can block and slice his ass some more. if he jumps at hibiki she canjump and do jab.

sagat / / ryo : ryo can throw fireballs at sagat and sagat either has to throw fireballs to trade or jump at ryo. when sagat jump ryo does dragonpunch and sagat go flying back to other side. also ryo has airfireball. sagat will think he is going to kick him and do tiger uppercut but really he will tigeruppercut and airfireball will hit him.

chun li / / zangief : chunli is good but zangief has no problem. if she throw fireballs use spinning backhand to close distance and if she jump at gief with her short he can do super airgrab and slam her on her ass. he can throw crouching fierce at her too because she cant reach him at that distance.

athena / / rock : if athena try to low fierce rock can do mid counter. and kick her on her dome. and if she jump then raging storm. if she throws fireball then double reppuken so you cancel hers out but yours keeps going. if she does spinning airball thingy than higher counter. owned!

yamazaki / / dan : if yamazaki tries to snakehand then dan can do dragonpunch and hit his hand even if yamazaki is far away. and if he jump in to get range but not above you then throw fireball to back him up. and if he has level you can runaway with sj back and gail kick.

ok well no charge for my advice guys. but if you win a tournament with my advice tell them who you heard if from. lol just kidding you dont have to thank me really. i try to help everyone out even if they arent as good as me. ok bye.

[Gandido]

Vega owns about 80% of the cast because of walking speed, range, and jump speed. His s.rh is a crazy anti-air, and he can do low fierce as well. Patient Vega (jiggling) is hard to get around. Sakura, Kyo, Nako, Rolento and Bison seem to me to have the easiest time on Vega. Hibiki just get's slaughtered, as well as Chun-Li. Rugal does NOT own Vega. Vega's jump is too fast for Rugal to Genocide Cutter him. S.strong or s.rh do not anti air Vega well either.

[Rolling Start]

u r a f@g

[Mummy-B]

No offense to anyone, but there are some weak ass tactics up in here.

vega / / rugal : rugal can throw ground fireballs and vega cant throw a fireball back at him. vega can only jump at him. when he jumps do genocide cutter. rugal wins for free.

No. As a matter of fact, like Gandido said, Rugal doesn't have very much to help him. I am convinced, as an avid Rugal player, that he is incapable of beating a P Vega.

cammy / / balrog : balrog can stay far away and punch her in the mouth with st. fierce. if she gets too close then he can do st. punch because if they get hit they move back and if they block they move back. if she jumps he can do down fierce and punch her out of the air.

Aside from the fact that she can crouch under stand fp? What about her stand fp, stand fk, crouch mk? How about her DP?

bison / / hibiki : bison cant win because if he does psycho crusher she can block and do qcf jab and slice his ass. if bison does slide then she can block and slice his ass some more. if he jumps at hibiki she canjump and do jab.

sagat / / ryo : ryo can throw fireballs at sagat and sagat either has to throw fireballs to trade or jump at ryo. when sagat jump ryo does dragonpunch and sagat go flying back to other side. also ryo has airfireball. sagat will think he is going to kick him and do tiger uppercut but really he will tigeruppercut and airfireball will hit him.

This is totally unacceptable. Both of them. I'm not even going to waste my breath.

chun li / / zangief : chunli is good but zangief has no problem. if she throw fireballs use spinning backhand to close distance and if she jump at gief with her short he can do super airgrab and slam her on her ass. he can throw crouching fierce at her too because she cant reach him at that distance.

Yeah and then I'll CC your ass to hell. Bye. Or maybe I might land a c.mp and super you all to hell. If you're not playing a solid Chun Li, MAYBE you may win, but not like that.

athena / / rock : if athena try to low fierce rock can do mid counter. and kick her on her dome. and if she jump then raging storm. if she throws fireball then double reppuken so you cancel hers out but yours keeps going. if she does spinning airball thingy than higher counter. owned!

This is a more balanced match. But your tactics are ridiculous. You to have infinate meter and be Miss Cleo to do this.

as for yamazaki and dan, that is just plain retarded.


Now then, on to more constructive posts:

Rugal vs Cammy

Rugal's low RH straight up beats cannon Drill. Rugal's crouch fierce beats anything that cammy can throw out at that range. Cammy has to make him whiff to get in.

I have to disagree. Cammy can pressure the living hell out of Rugal, unless he can Level 2+ super her to get out. It takes a fraction of a match for Cammy to get in range, then all she has to do is poke with fp, fk, and mk. Outside of a higher level super and/or a lucky landing of Genocide Cutter, you're not going to be able to breathe. Any Cammy that sits there and pokes with Sprial Arrow all by itself is not a seasoned Cammy player.

Hibiki vs Honda

Honda simply gets destroyed by Hibiki. Any blocked headbutt is free QCF+ Slash. And She can Slash all day unless Honda has a Lvl 3 super (only way he can retaliate).
All of her moves beat Headbutts, pokes, and jump ins. Simply put, Hibiki is the better turtle.

This is actually much harder than you think it is. Especially now with the ability to RC. I wouldn't call her a counter character, more like a... good matchup maybe.

[Chris F]

Originally posted by Mummy-B
No offense to anyone, but there are some weak ass tactics up in here.

vega / / rugal : rugal can throw ground fireballs and vega cant throw a fireball back at him. vega can only jump at him. when he jumps do genocide cutter. rugal wins for free.

No. As a matter of fact, like Gandido said, Rugal doesn't have very much to help him. I am convinced, as an avid Rugal player, that he is incapable of beating a P Vega.

cammy / / balrog : balrog can stay far away and punch her in the mouth with st. fierce. if she gets too close then he can do st. punch because if they get hit they move back and if they block they move back. if she jumps he can do down fierce and punch her out of the air.

Aside from the fact that she can crouch under stand fp? What about her stand fp, stand fk, crouch mk? How about her DP?

bison / / hibiki : bison cant win because if he does psycho crusher she can block and do qcf jab and slice his ass. if bison does slide then she can block and slice his ass some more. if he jumps at hibiki she canjump and do jab.

sagat / / ryo : ryo can throw fireballs at sagat and sagat either has to throw fireballs to trade or jump at ryo. when sagat jump ryo does dragonpunch and sagat go flying back to other side. also ryo has airfireball. sagat will think he is going to kick him and do tiger uppercut but really he will tigeruppercut and airfireball will hit him.

This is totally unacceptable. Both of them. I'm not even going to waste my breath.

chun li / / zangief : chunli is good but zangief has no problem. if she throw fireballs use spinning backhand to close distance and if she jump at gief with her short he can do super airgrab and slam her on her ass. he can throw crouching fierce at her too because she cant reach him at that distance.

Yeah and then I'll CC your ass to hell. Bye. Or maybe I might land a c.mp and super you all to hell. If you're not playing a solid Chun Li, MAYBE you may win, but not like that.

athena / / rock : if athena try to low fierce rock can do mid counter. and kick her on her dome. and if she jump then raging storm. if she throws fireball then double reppuken so you cancel hers out but yours keeps going. if she does spinning airball thingy than higher counter. owned!

This is a more balanced match. But your tactics are ridiculous. You to have infinate meter and be Miss Cleo to do this.

as for yamazaki and dan, that is just plain retarded.




Have a sense of humor, man. It was meant as a laugh.

[SominexII]

Originally posted by Mummy-B
No offense to anyone, but there are some weak ass tactics up in here.

vega / / rugal : rugal can throw ground fireballs and vega cant throw a fireball back at him. vega can only jump at him. when he jumps do genocide cutter. rugal wins for free.

No. As a matter of fact, like Gandido said, Rugal doesn't have very much to help him. I am convinced, as an avid Rugal player, that he is incapable of beating a P Vega.

cammy / / balrog : balrog can stay far away and punch her in the mouth with st. fierce. if she gets too close then he can do st. punch because if they get hit they move back and if they block they move back. if she jumps he can do down fierce and punch her out of the air.

Aside from the fact that she can crouch under stand fp? What about her stand fp, stand fk, crouch mk? How about her DP?

bison / / hibiki : bison cant win because if he does psycho crusher she can block and do qcf jab and slice his ass. if bison does slide then she can block and slice his ass some more. if he jumps at hibiki she canjump and do jab.

sagat / / ryo : ryo can throw fireballs at sagat and sagat either has to throw fireballs to trade or jump at ryo. when sagat jump ryo does dragonpunch and sagat go flying back to other side. also ryo has airfireball. sagat will think he is going to kick him and do tiger uppercut but really he will tigeruppercut and airfireball will hit him.

This is totally unacceptable. Both of them. I'm not even going to waste my breath.

chun li / / zangief : chunli is good but zangief has no problem. if she throw fireballs use spinning backhand to close distance and if she jump at gief with her short he can do super airgrab and slam her on her ass. he can throw crouching fierce at her too because she cant reach him at that distance.

Yeah and then I'll CC your ass to hell. Bye. Or maybe I might land a c.mp and super you all to hell. If you're not playing a solid Chun Li, MAYBE you may win, but not like that.

athena / / rock : if athena try to low fierce rock can do mid counter. and kick her on her dome. and if she jump then raging storm. if she throws fireball then double reppuken so you cancel hers out but yours keeps going. if she does spinning airball thingy than higher counter. owned!

This is a more balanced match. But your tactics are ridiculous. You to have infinate meter and be Miss Cleo to do this.

as for yamazaki and dan, that is just plain retarded.

I think that person was trying to be sarcastic. Sounds like a lot of basic strategies eg "throw fireball, if opponent jumps then dp them!!!! throw two jabs, if opponent blocks, throw them!!!" stuff that's been around since 1991 with SF2: The World Warriors.

[Mummy-B]

Dude, even if it was a joke, it was completely ludicrous. There is a point where retardation is no longer laughable.

maybe i'm in a bad mood too. whatever.

[Gandido]

This thread was meant to be informative, not for some dumb fuck to come in and think everything is a joke to post some stupid shit that costs money for some people.

[LazyJ]

Originally posted by Gandido
This thread was meant to be informative, not for some dumb fuck to come in and think everything is a joke to post some stupid shit that costs money for some people.

shut the fuck up ass. im trying my best guy. its people like you who discourage me from playing the game. how was i supposed to know that my advice wasnt good? its not like i told any lies deliberately. and i'm not some dumb fuck. and how is it costing somebody money? if you dont want to read it you dont have to. scroll down. dickhead.

[Chris F]

If Inkblot wants to save money, I think he should eliminate the General Discussion Forum.

[LazyJ]

Originally posted by DarthSalamander


Websites aren't free. Someone has to pay for this one(Inkblot).

...

Dumb fuck. :p

and how is it costing somebody money? if you dont want to read it you dont have to. scroll down. dickhead.

next time read the rest moron.

[Sage]

LazyJ: your in the wrong thread man, this is CVS2 not MVC2 theres no sentinel here. :lol:

[LazyJ]

Originally posted by DarthSalamander


Just posting your lame remarks adds to bandwidth Inkbloth pays for, and its more data for everyone to download(more bandwidth), even if they don't read your post and instead scroll past it like the garbage it is.

That is how it is costing someone money, idiot.

if inkblot doesnt want to spend money then why would he create srk in the first place. if you dont want him spending more money then stop replying and wasting bandwidth, dummy

[b0kch0yb0y]

Fuckin....

We're not here to talk about Inkblot and SRK. We're here to talk about counter characters

Someone told me Blanka // Hibiki isn't true.

Who is the match in favor of??

[Rock n Roll]

who you guys use against ryu and ken?

[Iceman]

P/S/N/K-Vega is hands down my favorite character to play against Ryu and Ken. Blanka is probably my 2nd favorite choice.

[Fritz]

IMO, Hibiki ownz Blanks for free

I play Hibiki vs. Balrog almost everyday (bokchoy can back that up) and i'd say that Rog has a slight advantage over her simply cause of Hibiki's slash and his j.fp/rk. She outpokes him a bit, but Balrog can get in close very easily


Any Guile players out there? i think Guile > Sagat, Chun, Kyo... and more, but any other chars you guys know of?

[Mummy-B]

The only way Hibiki can beat Blanka cleanly is by carefully zoning his ass out.

That becomes very difficult when he's got Level 3 meter, might I add.

Once Blanka's in on her and pressuring the living shit out of her, her days are pretty numbered until she can either get out and keep zoning or by supering his ass.

Doing her Level 3 blackout slash super is pretty dope on a cross up attempt, by the way.

[DarthSalamander]

Originally posted by Mummy-B
The only way Hibiki can beat Blanka cleanly is by carefully zoning his ass out.

That becomes very difficult when he's got Level 3 meter, might I add.

Once Blanka's in on her and pressuring the living shit out of her, her days are pretty numbered until she can either get out and keep zoning or by supering his ass.

Doing her Level 3 blackout slash super is pretty dope on a cross up attempt, by the way.

What are the best pressure routines once Blanka gets in on Hibiki?

[Mummy-B]

Wait, that is sort of confusing, do you mean tactics for blanka pressuring hibiki or hibiki dealing with it

[yk808]

If vega does counter about 80% of the cast, then who does have a chance against him? I thought Chunli, but psx2000 has found ways around that. I thought Rolento, but i haven't found a way to turtle or rushdown vega for shit. At most either of these matchups come out even. I also tried Vice and Yun, but uh... yeah they kind of REALLY suck against a good vega. Crappy vega, no problem, but PSX2000's vega is like the best in the world or something (well, best in hawaii, and apprarently best at evo too {according to him at least, I didn't see much vega} and people in Japan don't use him much so...). His ratio 1 Vega can ocv about 80% of hawaii players if he is serious. And don't tell me RC out of it or something stupid.

[Judgment Day]

Originally posted by yk808
If vega does counter about 80% of the cast, then who does have a chance against him? I thought Chunli, but psx2000 has found ways around that. I thought Rolento, but i haven't found a way to turtle or rushdown vega for shit. At most either of these matchups come out even. I also tried Vice and Yun, but uh... yeah they kind of REALLY suck against a good vega. Crappy vega, no problem, but PSX2000's vega is like the best in the world or something (well, best in hawaii, and apprarently best at evo too {according to him at least, I didn't see much vega} and people in Japan don't use him much so...). His ratio 1 Vega can ocv about 80% of hawaii players if he is serious. And don't tell me RC out of it or something stupid.

It's been argued over time that PsychoBison (props to the other person who said those words) actually does good against Vega in CvS2. I tend to agree to an extent, but I agree 100% that Psycho has better chances than most.

Is it me, or is PsychoBison very weak against ChunLi? We don't have very many ChunLis around here, so any help on this issue would be greatly appreciated.

[Ubersaurus]

I'd like to say Honda can take down Vega, but it's a matchup I haven't much experience at...though with RCed headbutts it's be hard for vega to do his ever so happy jumpins, or poke ins, or most of his shit that I've seen. Don't have many good vega's around here that I've played (nor do I play a rolling groove).

[cheese_master]

Originally posted by yk808
If vega does counter about 80% of the cast, then who does have a chance against him? I thought Chunli, but psx2000 has found ways around that. I thought Rolento, but i haven't found a way to turtle or rushdown vega for shit. At most either of these matchups come out even. I also tried Vice and Yun, but uh... yeah they kind of REALLY suck against a good vega. Crappy vega, no problem, but PSX2000's vega is like the best in the world or something (well, best in hawaii, and apprarently best at evo too {according to him at least, I didn't see much vega} and people in Japan don't use him much so...). His ratio 1 Vega can ocv about 80% of hawaii players if he is serious. And don't tell me RC out of it or something stupid.

Couple chars that do okay vs Vega would have to be Balrog... especially in C. His lvl3 hurts so much... and can punish most of Vega's pokes even if blocked.

Sagat cuz he does so much damage... plus two TUs and Vega's mask and claw fall off... so its kinda hard for him to just jump in. Add in Sagat's j FP fucking hurts like hell... Vega is hard pressed to stay grounded. Once u got that... start working through pokes. Just remember... Vega can't do close to same damage as u... so don't worry too much about getting hit.

Bison... he is ok counter char... w/ low jumps and run... w/o it... hope u get that CC before u die.

Eagle... i was hesitant to say this.... but seriously... Eagle is a bitch for 3/4 the top tier. Blanka has probs vs him. Sagat does. Bison does. Vega does too. Cammy doesn't have any problems so we can forget her.

[Gandido]

Originally posted by yk808
If vega does counter about 80% of the cast, then who does have a chance against him? I thought Chunli, but psx2000 has found ways around that. I thought Rolento, but i haven't found a way to turtle or rushdown vega for shit. At most either of these matchups come out even. I also tried Vice and Yun, but uh... yeah they kind of REALLY suck against a good vega. Crappy vega, no problem, but PSX2000's vega is like the best in the world or something (well, best in hawaii, and apprarently best at evo too {according to him at least, I didn't see much vega} and people in Japan don't use him much so...). His ratio 1 Vega can ocv about 80% of hawaii players if he is serious. And don't tell me RC out of it or something stupid.

Matt himself said his biggest problems came from Kyo, Nakoruru and Sakura, as well as Bison. Bison's low forward is reaally important against Vega.

[GeekBoy]

How well does Balrog (boxer) fair against Vega (The CLAW)?

[SoleEMU]

Does anyone have any tactics for fighting against cammy?

Her sFK is dam painful, and she is too quick...

Are there any good anti-cammy characters?

[CrimsonDisaster]

Chun counters Cammy, in my experience. Chun outpokes Cammy, and any connected poke = kick super.

[Gandido]

Chun only has three weapons against Cammy in ALL grooves: s.strong, rc fierce kikkoken, and low strong. The thing is, she is a good counter because all of these work extremely well against Cammy.

Anyhow, what's a good Yama counter? I played Dr. B's nasty Yama, and even though I won that first match, the others were hell to pay due to my lack of Yama experience.

GeekBoy: Rog has 2 things going for him against Vega: low forward and s.forward. IMO Vega rapes Balrog, at least until Rog gets a level 3. Vega's pokes all have too much... "lag" and are easily punished by lvl3 mistake punish of death super.

[Gunter]

Originally posted by b0kch0yb0y
Okay, in tournaments, it's a good idea to have counter-characters to characters whom you have trouble fighting against, top-tier characters, and commonly used characters.


I disagree. All future Evolutions will most likely be done in the proper 1 match format (although it's not likely we will see single elimination for a while. :lame:

Sagat // Athena: All of Sagats jumping and hopping attacks lose to Athena's c.HP. On the ground, c.HP beats all of Sagat's normals too, with the exception of Sagat's own c.HP which trades. This stunts Sagat's ability to attack her, while Athena can run away and throw Psycho Balls to build meter for free, which is best used towards her killer Custom Combos.


Actually, in my opinion, Sagat owns this match, but it's a LOOOOONG match. Bas was beating everyone with Athena one day till I got on the machine with Sagat matched up against her. He couldn't get past my s.short. I just did s.short all day, and if she jumped I would DP. He also said that it's impossible to counter CC his AA CC if it's done deep. I like this match. :cool:

[CrimsonDisaster]

Somebody already said it, I think, but Rolento does well against Yama.

[Eternal Blue]

Yama doesn't seem like the sort of character to have any true counter characters. He can out poke lotta characters with that huge s. rh and the slashes. His c. fierce is excellent anti-air and anti-crossup. He has good roll. He has throw super. He has anti-air super. High priority jumpin forward which ticks very very well with his throw super. He can build meter fast by whiffing qcb + kick. He has command throw... Need I go on? Yama is very very very very balanced character. The only thing that would really "counter" Yama imo is just running away from him cause his dash is slow, and his jump is short. But even running away can be difficult when he has meter especially because you can't roll through his offense (super throw/command throw/normal throw(duh)) and his anti-air super gets rid of the "i sj over ur head and turtle once again" strategy which belong to characters like Rolento, Vega, Bison, Blanka, Chun, Athena, Maki, Geese, etc.

[CrimsonDisaster]

Rolento can runaway with RC Scouters or RC wall jumps if Yama somehow corners him. I don't care if you've got L3, RC Scouter is going right through the Guillotine.

And if it's N Rolento, he can just wait for Yama to screw up and whiff a Snake Arm or roundhouse and L3 TNP him.

[Ouroborus]

runaways give yamazaki a hard time. so vega, rolento and mai beats him.

[Mummy-B]

i would have to say that blanka and honda are Terry killers

[Mu Shiki]

MUUUUUUUU SHIIIIIIIIKI!!!!!!

[b0kch0yb0y]

Mummy-B> Agreed

[DarthSalamander]

Originally posted by cheese_master


Couple chars that do okay vs Vega would have to be Balrog... especially in C. His lvl3 hurts so much... and can punish most of Vega's pokes even if blocked.

Sagat cuz he does so much damage... plus two TUs and Vega's mask and claw fall off... so its kinda hard for him to just jump in. Add in Sagat's j FP fucking hurts like hell... Vega is hard pressed to stay grounded. Once u got that... start working through pokes. Just remember... Vega can't do close to same damage as u... so don't worry too much about getting hit.

Bison... he is ok counter char... w/ low jumps and run... w/o it... hope u get that CC before u die.

Eagle... i was hesitant to say this.... but seriously... Eagle is a bitch for 3/4 the top tier. Blanka has probs vs him. Sagat does. Bison does. Vega does too. Cammy doesn't have any problems so we can forget her.


What determines when Vega's claw and mask fall off? Is it just a damage amount that must be reached during the round or is more like stun where he has to get damaged a certain amount in a certain amount of time?

Also I assume characters like Rock and Cammy can also punish blocked pokes from Vega with their respective crazy fast supers. Any one else?

On Yamazaki it seems that his s.roundhouse and low roundhouse are completely unpunishable if you block them(aside from counter rolls which I haven't messed with). Just want someone else to confirm/deny this.

[jae hoon]

Cammy killer? Easy enough even though no one will believe me, Athena. Yeah thats right Athena. Athena's df alone is a pain in the ass for Cammy to get past. Just that move alone beats almost anything Cammy has, now its time for no one to believe me --.

[b0kch0yb0y]

jae hoon>> I just got into Athena, and she does fare exceptionally well against Cammy. I'll have to look into that some more though.

[jae hoon]

Originally posted by b0kch0yb0y
jae hoon>> I just got into Athena, and she does fare exceptionally well against Cammy. I'll have to look into that some more though.

thats because athena's cf takes out almost everything cammy has, she cant jump in on her or go to do a move because the cf with cancel almost all of them.

[Ralf_Fighter367]

Just a thought, those anyone know how Ryu stands against Nakoruru.So far,she has been countering all of my attacks and I need some tips on how Ryu can fight back.

[Phobos]

I need help fighting akuma /yama/blanka k groove
terry /vega/blanka c groove
cammy/nakoruru /blanka k groove
guile /bison /blanka c groove
I mostly use dhalsim/kyo/rugal in a-groove ,k-groove
thanks

[Lor Bac]

Here's an interesting match:
Chang vs Sim both in C groove

Anyone have any idea who'll win?

My money is on Change b/c of Choi. I'm guessing that sim's punches can't hit both Choi and Chang at the same time, putting Sim in a defensive position, something he's not good at.

I can't imagine any of Sim's super/special doing anything worthwhile in the match as they're both slow to come out. Maybe a RC Yoga flame maybe switch the match in Sim's balance, so what do you guys think?

[Mummy-B]

Originally posted by Ralf_Fighter367
Just a thought, those anyone know how Ryu stands against Nakoruru.So far,she has been countering all of my attacks and I need some tips on how Ryu can fight back.

Save your meter and make sure you nail her ass with a super. Trust me, it'll make a world of difference. Landing a Level 3 does ridiculous damage to her since her vitality is so low.

Then rush her shit down do not let her zone you out and rush in.



Anyway. Cammy counters Gief. Running stand fierce is too good.

[Lor Bac]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Ralf_Fighter367
Just a thought, those anyone know how Ryu stands against Nakoruru.So far,she has been countering all of my attacks and I need some tips on how Ryu can fight back.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Save your meter and make sure you nail her ass with a super. Trust me, it'll make a world of difference. Landing a Level 3 does ridiculous damage to her since her vitality is so low.

Then rush her shit down do not let her zone you out and rush in.



Anyway. Cammy counters Gief. Running stand fierce is too good.

Low jumps help alot too. I find that she can't really counter low jumps too well.
Mummy-B is right about the lvl 3s. Lvl 3 hurricane is great for catching Naki...

[Dangief]

ok, someone said that PyschoBison is a good counter for Vega. Can you tell me how this works? And any other solid strageties against him would be nice. Ever since CE he's been giving me trouble... especially since I'm a Zangief player.

[rallykupo]

Well a good vega counter character is Eagle. His j.mp, or maybe it was j.wp, i forget which one kills just about any counter in the air. The only thing it doesn't beat out in the air is blanka's j.rh, but thats only about 60 percent of the time.

For geif..., i think s groove is the way to be, dodge then piledrive or you u can pick k groove and just defend and piledrive. I think if u turtle with gief against vega, it should work. PPP or s.rh when they jump in, and c.fp and piledrive when u can if they stay grounded.

Not sure about bison, i think his j.rh and j.fp beats out vega in the air. If they stay grounded, then u can wait and give him a pyscho crusher when the opportunity comes.

[erco]

Originally posted by Dangief
ok, someone said that PyschoBison is a good counter for Vega. Can you tell me how this works? And any other solid strageties against him would be nice. Ever since CE he's been giving me trouble... especially since I'm a Zangief player.

vega has no answer for bisons ground pressure. Bison corners people fairly quickly, and once in that position, Vega can't do much to counter blocked scissor kick strings and Bisons weird corner crossups.

[Dangief]

Thanks

[HalfBreed]

Lazy J is a bitch.
There are NO fucking counters you dumbasses, everyone is equal. Dumb bitches, need to have this thread closed.

[Pr0di9y]

are counter characters really usefull in tourneys? sure you beat blanka the 1st round w/hibiki but hibiki would then be beaten by (place top tier character here). the secret in street fighter is know your enemy, and predict the next 3 moves ,so if your friend was playing vs u in a tourney, you know his weakness (if he is smart he knows yours too!), in that case, you may win.

[erco]

Originally posted by Pr0di9y
are counter characters really usefull in tourneys? sure you beat blanka the 1st round w/hibiki but hibiki would then be beaten by (place top tier character here). the secret in street fighter is know your enemy, and predict the next 3 moves ,so if your friend was playing vs u in a tourney, you know his weakness (if he is smart he knows yours too!), in that case, you may win.

counter characters are useful for your problematic matchups. Like the above poster, he knows he has vega problems, why not learn bison to neutralize them? it's not as if bison loses to free to the rest of the cast or anything, and you don't have r1 vega tearing a hole through the rest of your cast.

Also, all character have certain capabilities; strengths and weaknesses. It's inherent in character design. Sim, by definition, has long range limbs, Ryu has a fireballs/dp, etc. These traits define the character (give him personality) and also end up determining what that character does well. Obvious example: Gief, a grappler through and through. he needs to be up close to you (specifically, SPD range) to be most effective. Against his most problematic matchup, Sagat, he's gonna lose 90% of the time. Why? Simply because Sagat's range/priority are such that it keeps Gief out, and neutralizes everything gief can use to get within his best range.

[Eternal Blue]

Counter characters are great. They help beat stupid ass annoying characters like Vega and Blanka.

[No defence]

Originally posted by Mummy-B
i would have to say that blanka and honda are Terry killers
what about Rock?