MvC2: Blackheart Players Unite!

[F£É§h~Ñ~BoÑè]

well..i was looking around some old files on my comp and came across this old post about the Bh inferno. It was posted by a user sometime b4 the crash but i am not sure who ....please claim your props if u see this ....so here it is ..unedited:


posted this on Shoryuken about a month ago, but it didn't attract much notice. Seeing as how pretty much all I've done on these boards so far is to post a bit of tourney info, and make jokes about my friends' mental prowess (or lack thereof), I thought I should probably contribute something usefull (at least I hope you will find it usefull).
I don't know how much of this is known elsewhere, I just know that I haven't seen, heard of, or read about it anywhere else, so I'm hoping it's fairly new to most of you.
------------------------------
Anatomy of an Inferno:
The column of the Inferno Actually consists of two half-columns, one on top of the other. These columns are capable of hitting throughout the entire time the inferno is on the screen, but each half-column only hits once (whether that hit is blocked or connects does not matter).
Graphical representation:
T = top part
B = bottom part
TTTT
TTTT
TTTT
TTTT
TTTT
TTTT
TTTT
TTTT
TTTT
BBB <--normal jump height
BBB
BBB
BBB
BBB

This double-column construction explains almost all of the 'strange' hiting properties of the inferno, like why when you block an inferno on a super jump, you have to block the inferno again on the way down (that's you fallling into the bottom column), and why you need to superjump twice to escape the sentinel/BH trap when it is done with Roundhouse drones (you have to jump up and block the top column to neutralize it before you can escape).
It also explains those odd double-hitting infernos you sometimes see where the enemy is hit once right when the inferno comes out and once as it disapears. You see, ordinarily you either hit with the bottom column which immediately throws the enemy up into the top column, or you hit with just the top column, and by the time the enemy has fallen back down from their long spiral, the inferno has disapated. There is a range, however, that is high enough to be fully within the top column, yet low enough that when the enemy falls back down into the range of the bottom column it will still be there. This range is, fortunately, at about the height that a Cyclops b-assist brings your opponent up to. The timing varies slightly from character to character, and of course Cable, the one person you wouldn't want to just Inferno XX HOD (because of AHVB during forced dash), seems to have hardest timing of all. Cyclops, however, is easy.
In any case, the fact that the inferno hits right at the end, means that Blackheart is recovering just as his opponent is being thrown, helpless, back up into the air. There are many options available to him at this point. Here are a few suggestions:
-Extend Combos: Intead of doing a normal Inferno XX HOD, you can do a double hitting inferno and follow it up however you like. A personal favorite of mine is to hit the opponent with a high dark thunder as they are coming down and cancel that into HOD.
-Infinite Combo: Just keep doing double-hitting infernos. The timing's tough, but you can keep them bouncing. Finish it however you like.
-Switch out: Time a s.roundhouse so that the demons connect as your opponent is coming down. When they hit, switch to another one of your characters. The fact that the demons connect in the air makes this inescapable.
The switchout will, of course act as a setup for your next character. If your next character is someone like Magneto or Cable, switching out is often the best way to do damage.
Well, that's that. I hope you found this informative.

[Dasrik]

This article isn't entirely accurate, and I believe Spider-Dan was the one to correct the author later on in the post... I'll try to sum up whatever is relevant to MvC2 here.

The Inferno is explained easier than that. Basically, there ARE two parts to the Inferno: the pillar that basically hits as soon as it appears, and an invisible projectile that appears at regular jump height and rises to the top. Most of the time when people get hit by the Inferno, the first hit knocks them up into the second, but if they get hit high in the air, it's possible for the second hit to not connect until later, which means you can actually hit with two Infernos if you're quick. This also explains why it's possible to walk out of Inferno XX HOD if you block an Inferno while standing.

[ytwojay]

so how exactly can you set up the double hitting inferno, and continue with the inferno infinite? by using cyclops-b assist?

[Dasrik]

There's no Inferno infinite. AFAIK, you can hit with 3 Infernos if you're quick, and the opponent is a lightweight and at the top of the screen when the Inferno hits, but eventually they will fall too low.

[F£É§h~Ñ~BoÑè]

Yea...dasrik is correct ...i didnt even bother to read it over b4 i posted it but..yea...there is no double hitting infinite...and you can setup it up off cyc...

[ICD-3]

John Mayfield (the guy that originally posted about the anatomy of the Inferno) can hit it for 7. The most I've gotten was 5, but I know for a fact you can do it for more than 3, it's just hella hard.

[Dasrik]

The old Blackheart thread is dead. Long live Blackheart!

I made this new thread so that serious Blackheart users could post about the trials, travails, and flat out STRESS of playing BH seriously.

Share the tactics you use, the teams you like, combos that are reliable and damaging, any setups and such... just Blackheart stuff. I want to find out what other BH players are doing.

Non-BH players can ask questions if you wish.

P.S. If your post says "BH sucks, play Magneto or Cable", please get the fuck out.

P.P.S. If you post just to say "BH sucks, play Magneto or Cable" because of my P.S., sarcasm is a low form of humor and you're an idiot.

[Lovely Kitsune]

Magneto and Cable suck, play BH!

Where would this put me on the idiot scale?

[rice picker]

well new thread eh?i play team watts.i was curious what trapping sequences do u use with them?my very simple but damaging comb that everyone know is clk+capcom assisit, clk, inferno,hod.everyone knows but hey,it does half life:D

[Jinsogood]

Tron + BH = 0\/\/n4g3!

BH cant afford to touch any buttons besides Fierce and Short.
Thats about all you can do with BH.

Its all about hitting people with cr.shorts and Tron assist.
Or calling tron assist, then doing the oober ghetto cross up with BH ground dash.
No one ever expects that shit.

BH can keep Magz away as long as you never touch roundhouse.
Roundhouse gets BH killed vs Magz.
Jump back fierce+assists, and tails of jesus are about the only attacks besides inferno>HOD that you should touch.

[Dasrik]

Originally posted by rice picker
well new thread eh?i play team watts.i was curious what trapping sequences do u use with them?my very simple but damaging comb that everyone know is clk+capcom assisit, clk, inferno,hod.everyone knows but hey,it does half life:D Depends. What assist are you using? I would not use Alpha Sent on Team Watts unless I knew my opponent... the problem with Team Watts starting BH is that in order to cover his rushdown BH has to use Y-Sentinel which means he can't use Commando. Better to start Sentinel on that team usually.

BH/Y-Sent rush works if you have the advantage on your opponent. You can call Sent and do s.rh. Any connected s.rh means free super damage for you. No one's going to really fall for this if they're winning, but if they're losing (or just gung ho) you can probably get it a couple of times. Another sneaky trick you can do with Y-Sent is to call him and do jab dark thunder, this eats any assists the opponent might have called and is pretty safe.

More later cuz I'm tired.

[Dasrik]

Originally posted by Jinsogood
BH cant afford to touch any buttons besides Fierce and Short.
Thats about all you can do with BH.Nah. BH can use jab and roundhouse. It's just about knowing when to use them. His jabs have nearly God-like (Satan-like?) priority, especially in air-to-air battles (jump jab beats frying pan CLEAN :eek: ). Air roundhouse is a good pin, especially if they've just blocked Cyclops, and stand roundhouse is monstrous if you set it up right. (More on that below.)

Its all about hitting people with cr.shorts and Tron assist.
Or calling tron assist, then doing the oober ghetto cross up with BH ground dash.
No one ever expects that shit.BH/Tron is never to be scoffed at.
Easy 30% damage low short (possible 100% in the corner), plus using Tron assist enough lets BH make his opponent scared of it and do ghetto shit that he should not be able to do, like jumping forward at them with fierce.
Also there is a BH/Tron semi-infinite, corner only but if you're good at superjump cancelling you can do it out of the corner too. (Too tired to put it down right now, but I will.)

BH can keep Magz away as long as you never touch roundhouse.
Roundhouse gets BH killed vs Magz.
Jump back fierce+assists, and tails of jesus are about the only attacks besides inferno>HOD that you should touch. ROUNDHOUSE IS NOT BAD ON MAGNETO.
First off, you have to condition Magneto to not approach you from the air. Jumping fierce with assists should do that. Once you feel that he's going to start ground dashing you, you can start doing jump and stand roundhouse. A connected S.RH while calling Y-Sent is near guaranteed damage for you. Plus, if Magneto tries to punish your assist with retarded launch into tempest shit that doesnt work, jump straight up roundhouse, then do launch into inferno xx super.

And of course, jabs are great air-to-air weapons on Magnus.

Also, I'd never do Inferno XX HOD on Magneto unless I knew for sure he'd block it and not get out. Having your Inferno escaped is death for BH, and Mags getting hit by the super puts you in a guessing situation you'd rather not be in. Unless of course it kills him, then go ahead.

[LightningStorm]

I've got a tactic against Magneto that can remedy that guessing game after Mags get's hit with the HOD and doesn't die.

Upon flying screen Magneto will either dashin and try a low hit into launcher into anything. Or dash in sj cancel triangle jump and catch you crouching for that low hit I mentioned above. Or Magneto will super jump with you to meet you in the air because you super jumped.

Now this only works with Storm gamma assist, it can work alone but much easier and safer with the assist.

Upon flying screen you call Storm assist and super jump forward all in one motion. (Don't accidentally do a snap back or both BH and Storm are screwed). Mags will jump pretty much on cue, BH should do fierce demons. Mags will either block the demons or get hit by them. If he blocks them airdash forward do a blocked aircombo storm's assist will come up for some chip and then air throw.

If Mags gets hit, then he's got the energy draining demons on him and Storms assist will carry him up more. Depending on the timing of all of this, BH might hit the ground in time for you to get another Inferno xx HOD. This really depends on when Mags jumped, and how far he fell into the typhoon. The important thing is not to airdash if Mags gets hit so that BH is on a one-way trip to the ground for that purpose.

Another scenario that could go down... is Mags dashed instead of jumped... so you won't hit him with anything... But he can't hit you either. He might get one or two hits on Storm, but the fact that BH jumped forward (over Mags) will turn him around before he can finish that combo.

[ej333]

im only a kinda casual BH player, i fool around with Mags/Sent/BH or maybe Sent/Mags/BH. i usually use Sent's drones assist to help cover BH on the ground. Sometimes I tinker with Sent's launcher assist to help Mag's and BH's comboability, and I hope that Magneto's proj is enuff to cover BH on the ground. Anyone had success using Mags assist to cover BH on ground against rushers like Mags? With THis team, I usually die bad to rushdown teams with Psylocke, because this team can't easily punish Psylocke.

I don't like to use BH unless I have to, but when he's in, I kinda try to stay above them and fall on them with jump short, if it connects then do dn LK (call Mags), dn MK, qcb PP (while Mags proj hits). The combo only works if BH is pretty close to opponent, though. Otherwise, i just jump around while calling drones, and I do LP, LK, or HP depending on where opponent is.

With Mags on point, i kinda like BH assist because it helps keep runaway Storm grounded. It's also good for camoflauge, cuz once the ice is out there, it's really hard to see what MAg is doing. I couldn't figure out any good combos with MAg + BH assist though. Having BH after Mags is kinda nice, though, because if I do Tempest combo in air, I can DHC right into Armageddon just as hypergrav hits for almost guaranteed damage.

[aquarake]

Originally posted by Dasrik
The old Blackheart thread is dead. Long live Blackheart!

I made this new thread so that serious Blackheart users could post about the trials, travails, and flat out STRESS of playing BH seriously.

Share the tactics you use, the teams you like, combos that are reliable and damaging, any setups and such... just Blackheart stuff. I want to find out what other BH players are doing.

Non-BH players can ask questions if you wish.

P.S. If your post says "BH sucks, play Magneto or Cable", please get the fuck out.

P.P.S. If you post just to say "BH sucks, play Magneto or Cable" because of my P.S., sarcasm is a low form of humor and you're an idiot.
BH sucks, play Megaman or Anakaris
-Low form of humor
:) just kidding rick. BH is uber annoying.

Might you post some anti-blackheart tactics as well?

Originally posted by Lovely Kitsune
Magneto and Cable suck, play BH!

Where would this put me on the idiot scale?
Dunno, but pita-ten rocks :)

[DarkDragon]

Originally posted by Jinsogood
Tron + BH = 0\/\/n4g3!

BH cant afford to touch any buttons besides Fierce and Short.
Thats about all you can do with BH.

Its all about hitting people with cr.shorts and Tron assist.
Or calling tron assist, then doing the oober ghetto cross up with BH ground dash.
No one ever expects that shit.


u can also try baiting ppl by randomly dropping tron while doing j.fp or s.fp...this is good against ppl who like to dash in on bh when ur doing the fps or it can be used as a way of making them sj + dash at u (this is where bh's jumping/sj jabs and shorts come in handy). Just make sure to stay clear from some projectile assits and cyc.
Also, if players like mags keeps jumping on u, u can position urself under him, call tron and jump. This way u will block the attack and he'll most likely land and tron. The worst thing that can happen is u getting thrown which could be tech'ed out of.

[master ken]

Here are some strats that I don't see a lot of BH players use, but I learned from playing against Samnang :

- After a sj hk, try to land on your oponent and mix up your attacks. You can hit him with lk,lk on the back of his head or land and hit him below if your oponent expects you to hit him on his head. It's almost like mag's rush-down.

- Try to force your oponent to go to the corner, and once you're there, try as much as possible to trap his ass, it builds a lot of metter. The trap goes like this :
land on your oponent and hit lk, lk, then cr.lk+aaa, cr.lk, sj, hk, dash back hk, repeat. However, you have to throw demons at the right time in order to keep your oponent in block stun, you have to also mix up your attacks when you're about to land. If your oponent calls his assist to punish yours while you're in the air, throw a demon and cancell it with Judgement Day, it does great damage.
Air Judgement Day is great for traping in the corner and it chips pretty well.

- Against Sentinel, when you're in the corner, do Inferno XX Judgement Day in his face. For some reason, it does a lot of damage on him, it's maybe because he's a big metalic piece of shit :p



Other stuff :

- Try as much as possible to not use inferno XX Heart of Darkness, especialy against cable, you'll get shot :p

- You can put pressure on your oponent in the corner by doing this :
cr.lk+aaa, cr.lk; cr.lk, cr.lk; jump lk, lk; it really is anoying.

- Best BH teams IMO : 1 - sent/bh/capcom or cyc 2 - sent/bh/cable 3 - Doom/BH/capcom or cyc.

[Nemesis00]

Blackheart, where do I begin. His AAA stops runaway. He haslike th ebest pokes in the game with his jabs and shorts. As an assist, he takes up a large portion of the screen, so what I like to do against Mags is call BH, and if Mags out dashes the Inferno, he'll most likely attack BH, meaning free Rocket Punch or AHVB.
I believe that Blackheart's worst match-up is Cable. If your leveling up in the air by throwing Roundhouse demons, Cable SJ up and AHVBs you since BH lags alot in the air. But BH can win, if he follows some basic rules.

1) Stay onto of Cable. Call out a ground controlling assist(Sent or Doom) and SJ up. If Cable AHVBs the assist, hit roundhouse. This is good because Cable will have wasted his precious meter and since Cable will be most likely in the air, when the demons catch him, he gonna bounce, and the bouncy effect is Blackhearts best friend in this match. If you have meter, get back to the ground next to him and Inferno xx Armaggedon. If not, go for the staple BH air combo. OC.Fierce his launcher since it doesn't combo into unless you combo it from a jump-in.

2)Use the Tail of Jesus! If you anticipate the AAA, poke it, then try to SJ cancel the tail.

3) Make sure Blackheart is not last. You need the gound assist in this match. If he is, and Cable has CapCom, which he will, then you've got some hard work. AAA stops all modes of air attacks, and cuts through demons.

4)Kill CapCom ASAP. If Cable has CapCom, you can't win, as stated above.

Just remember, Cable is beatable, if done right.

[LazyJ]

wow people still use BH? thats interesting i thought he was extinct. BH really isnt that good anymore. he has no superarmor which is something he should have since hes huge and a big fuckin target. hes almost like juggernaut in that cable can kill him with 2 AHVBs. his best solo combos are trash. inferno HOD is the only thing worth using and its escapable if you block. the one thing he has going for him is his assist which is a horrible reason to pick him. 2 years ago he was close to the top of the toptier list and now hes on the bottom. i do play BH and i'm probably the best BH player around my coast but i still cant beat some sentinels or cables. BH players wont be winning big tournaments pretty soon. hes just outdated. try picking up cable or sentinel for him.

[LightningStorm]

Originally posted by LazyJ
i do play BH and i'm probably the best BH player around my coast but i still cant beat some sentinels or cables. BH players wont be winning big tournaments pretty soon. hes just outdated. try picking up cable or sentinel for him.

Then you're playing him wrong.

I do agree, Sent and Cable should normally beat BH, but BH doesn't just get owned up on for free, especially not by anybody's Sentinel. I don't have any issues with Sentinel, unless sent has an assist and I don't.

And choosing characters in video games isn't a trend, BH is still useful. The reason the general public thinks otherwise is because there can only be 1 leader out of 10 people.... One person led everyone to Magneto and Storm and the other 9 people went along with it. BH players suck with BH not the other way around. And the reason for this is because those people didn't adapt their technique and strategy to the new way of playing the game.

<< My avatar team, has absolutely no issue with a team of MSP. My only fears in tournament play are Cable based teams. If I see a team w/o Cable on it, I'm like :sweat: whew!!! This will be considerably easier--- note I said easier... not easy.

[LazyJ]

Originally posted by LightningStorm


Then you're playing him wrong.

I do agree, Sent and Cable should normally beat BH, but BH doesn't just get owned up on for free, especially not by anybody's Sentinel. I don't have any issues with Sentinel, unless sent has an assist and I don't.

And choosing characters in video games isn't a trend, BH is still useful. The reason the general public thinks otherwise is because there can only be 1 leader out of 10 people.... One person led everyone to Magneto and Storm and the other 9 people went along with it. BH players suck with BH not the other way around. And the reason for this is because those people didn't adapt their technique and strategy to the new way of playing the game.

<< My avatar team, has absolutely no issue with a team of MSP. My only fears in tournament play are Cable based teams. If I see a team w/o Cable on it, I'm like :sweat: whew!!! This will be considerably easier--- note I said easier... not easy.

i'm not playing him wrong. i actually know the perfect way to play him against every character but there is just so much he has. if you think about it BH's arsenal is nothing compared to cable and sentinel. if you take a look around the dominant teams need cable or sentinel on them. MSP is the only highly succesful team without the gun or the robot. i'm not saying hes bad just that hes not as good as he was. nobody is finding out anything new with him and i'm predicting he wont be toptier by next summer.

[Dasrik]

LightningStorm: That's a very interesting counter strategy. Unfortunately, stuff like that stops working when your opponent mashes to get up faster after FS. I've never seen them mash fast enough to get up and actually hit BH out of the forced dash, but it's usually enough to force BH to block when he comes out.

ej333: Actually, your team has a really good countercall for Psylocke. A-Mags will hit assists AND the damage on Psylocke really adds up after not too long. Players that replace their ground game with Psylocke are asking to get hammered, so just practice your blocking skills and countercall Psy on sight and you'll do good. Mags/BH has an unmashable tempest combo. I forget what it was, but master ken might know.

master ken: About corner trapping... BH/Doom does that INSANELY well. Dropping Doom, jump fiercing, then jump forward short short, land short short is a great pattern that covers most of Doom's exit, and the next guessing situation is almost entirely in your favor. If you guess right and make them block, they have to eat more chip damage.

Nemesis00: Blackheart stalemates Cable. That doesn't mean he wins. Getting in effectively on Cable, even with Doom assist, takes a lot of guessing (as per, should I jump or super jump) even if you can bait out the assist well. Fortunately, most Cables just mash on their AAA when you get near, so you can just get close, airdash (AAA misses), then drop Doom on Cable's head. The pattern I stated above covers Doom's exit well (although I wouldn't rely on it - I'd just keep Cable in blockstun between the first and second wave and then superjump out).

LazyJ: I understand where you're coming from. I think the problem most BH players have is that they have the wrong idea. Either they play to win, which BH really can't do unless the opponent lets him, or they indiscriminately call assists. BH has to play to not lose, and that means conserving his assists. As far as how he does against top 3, they have lots of options but BH can actually win on most competition because most opponents only take a few of those options. It's just a matter of being confident.

(to be continued)

[DeathFromAbove]

HOw I Play BH:

Strats: Build 4 meters, then counter->super for the kill. I like to keep it simple. Punish badly timed assists is good, too. But people who can't stop rushing let you do all sorts of stupid stuff...:D

I do a lot of things that aren't really safe against aggressive opponents, but due to the fact that I never do the same thing twice in a row, I almost always get away with it. This gets around the "limited options" problem that Blackheart seems to suffer from. I'll just share some of this stuff.
c.hp + Y-Sent XX jab Inferno.
jumpback HP XX airdash back + Y-Sent, land, c.HP, jump LP.
B-Doom, SJ.LP XX airdash forward HP (do demons during dash, not after), land jumpback HK.
Jump straight up LP, jump straight up LP, jump straight up LP...call assist when they start moving forward & dash back.
Call assist and ground dash forward when opponent in air.
Y-Sent, hp Dark Thunder.
SJ and mash LP, airdash HP when opponent comes near BH(HP during airdash, not after).
Most of this stuff leaves Blackheart in a position to do a ground Judgment Day if the opponent's assist decides to show up. Follow with a DHC to HSF/Hailstorm whatever and kill assists if you've got the meter. This chaotic sort of play does really well against aggressive opponents. A few things of note:
c.HP demons are the only ground demons that don't dissappear when you cancel to special/super. :D
I use j.LP almost exclusively for jumpins, since the priority is better than LK against airborne opponents, and the same against ground opponents. You can MK after it if it connects, and if blocked, just throw at landing. Perfectly timed tick-throw. Random j.LP is also frustrating to players who are hellbent on rushing.

People who are smart enough to sit back and play longrange games (and Cable players), force me into a more sedate game of just picking my openings to pull safe moves out til I earn meters. Not so fun, but Blackheart can stalemate most anybody, then I stand still, they attack, and I counter->super their life away. SJ HP/HK and airdash before it even comes out (before peak of SJ) is an exceptionally safe way of building meter. Once their assist comes out, I'll move a little toward them, and if I can get them to the corner, I can do some full SJs, and wait for assist, then Air Judgment Day DHC whatever.

-DFA

[Dasrik]

Originally posted by DeathFromAbove
Strats: Build 4 meters, then counter->super for the kill. I like to keep it simple. Punish badly timed assists is good, too. But people who can't stop rushing let you do all sorts of stupid stuff...:DThat's not a bad strategy, but I hate relying on counter -> super. I need to be really sneaky about it for it to work. It has to be a trump card. Most people get really obvious about when they want to counter -> super, and just get tossed around like their name was bacon. (Inside joke that's not really funny.)

I do a lot of things that aren't really safe against aggressive opponents, but due to the fact that I never do the same thing twice in a row, I almost always get away with it. This gets around the "limited options" problem that Blackheart seems to suffer from.Yeah. I do a lot of technically unsafe things too. The trick is to know where your opponent expects you to be and to not be there. Something as simple as jump forward fierce then airdash back can work wonders.

I'll analyze your stuff.

c.hp + Y-Sent XX jab Inferno. - I was about to say this doesn't work, but then I saw below.

jumpback HP XX airdash back + Y-Sent, land, c.HP, jump LP.That looks really spastic. :lol: What's your goal here?

B-Doom, SJ.LP XX airdash forward HP (do demons during dash, not after), land jumpback HK. - If you're going to use Doom, it's just best to do the lockdown pattern I described in an earlier post. You want to give the opponent no holes to escape chip damage, and to cover most of Doom's escape. Just IMO.

Jump straight up LP, jump straight up LP, jump straight up LP...call assist when they start moving forward & dash back. - Hahahaha, ghetto... too good.

Call assist and ground dash forward when opponent in air. - Ground dash is underused weapon. I'll get into it more in a future post.

Y-Sent, hp Dark Thunder. - Fierce DT strikes me as unnecessary since drones are already there. Why not jab DT?

SJ and mash LP, airdash HP when opponent comes near BH(HP during airdash, not after). - The coasting airdash? Pretty nice, but it might be your ass. I wouldn't do this on the big 3. Or Spiral. Or Cyclops. Actually, it's not really good if your opponent catches on. Good at first though.

c.HP demons are the only ground demons that don't dissappear when you cancel to special/super. :DWow, you learn something new every day! Actually, I did find that out about C.Fierce a long time ago, but I filed it away in the "useless BH trivia" part of my mind and forgot about it. Its use in some of your patterns is pretty sharp.

I use j.LP almost exclusively for jumpins, since the priority is better than LK against airborne opponents, and the same against ground opponents. You can MK after it if it connects, and if blocked, just throw at landing. Perfectly timed tick-throw. Random j.LP is also frustrating to players who are hellbent on rushing.Jump jab as a jump-in can be launched. I wouldn't do it if the opponent is staying on the ground. But jump jab is a great weapon.

People who are smart enough to sit back and play longrange games (and Cable players), force me into a more sedate game of just picking my openings to pull safe moves out til I earn meters. Not so fun, but Blackheart can stalemate most anybody, then I stand still, they attack, and I counter->super their life away. SJ HP/HK and airdash before it even comes out (before peak of SJ) is an exceptionally safe way of building meter. Once their assist comes out, I'll move a little toward them, and if I can get them to the corner, I can do some full SJs, and wait for assist, then Air Judgment Day DHC whatever.Baiting out assists is half the battle. If you bait out Cable's AAA, you can start attempting to attack Cable and bring in your own assist. You have to be careful how you do it, though, because a lot of times your assist will appear next to Cable's assist instead of Cable. Above all, you have to be really good at guessing, so you don't get pinned by grenades and viper beams. Not a greatly interesting match.

[totalScrubPower]

I kind of think psylocke and cyclops are good at setting up combos, so i kinda wanna know ways to use psylocke or cyclop's aaa with blackheart.

Also is there way to use psylocke: main, blackheart: aaa (anti-air). Like, superjump qcf + lk + blackheart assist is the only thing i know of.

[Dasrik]

Originally posted by totalScrubPower
I kind of think psylocke and cyclops are good at setting up combos, so i kinda wanna know ways to use psylocke or cyclop's aaa with blackheart. IMO Psylocke is bad with BH. She doesn't cover enough ground and doesn't keep the opponent blocking long enough. Just about the only thing she has good is an easy ass damage combo (shorts plus Psylocke, inferno into armageddon) but that's fool's gold. Psylocke is a Magneto-only assist.

Cyclops is so much better. Monster damage off any low short on ANYONE plus reset opportunities AND a great covering assist to boot. I'll write more about that later, but it's hella good.

Also is there way to use psylocke: main, blackheart: aaa (anti-air). Like, superjump qcf + lk + blackheart assist is the only thing i know of. BH's assist keeps people from jumping to escape. Psylocke already offers reason enough to not jump in on her (short psiblade is totally safe) but you can use BH in combination with rushdown s.fierce xx psi-flash patterns. There might actually be hope for a Psylocke/BH team, but the team has to be Psylocke-based, not BH, IMO.

[DeathFromAbove]

Originally posted by Dasrik
jumpback HP XX airdash back + Y-Sent, land, c.HP, jump LP.
That looks really spastic. :lol: What's your goal here?It starts out looking like your everyday BH pattern, then it starts looking like a gaping hole in his defense. Everybody attacks and gets tagged with the LP, follow with MK, the opponent bounces back to fullscreen in the air, match resets in your favor. Frustrate them into keep coming back.
Y-Sent, hp Dark Thunder.
Fierce DT strikes me as unnecessary since drones are already there. Why not jab DT?I'm fishing for an assist at fullscreen. HP keeps them from SJing out. I could use Inferno, I suppose, but I like the way people see a DT starting and immediately SJ right INTO the lightning.
Jump jab as a jump-in can be launched. I wouldn't do it if the opponent is staying on the ground. But jump jab is a great weapon.Mag,Storm,Sent,Strider,Doom can all launch LK anyway, and Cables like to jump out or dash under. LP catches anybody jumping out, as a potential guardbreak. And tic-throw is a nice bonus. I use LK on short characters, though.
Baiting out assists is half the battle. If you bait out Cable's AAA, you can start attempting to attack Cable and bring in your own assist. You have to be careful how you do it, though, because a lot of times your assist will appear next to Cable's assist instead of Cable. Above all, you have to be really good at guessing, so you don't get pinned by grenades and viper beams. Not a greatly interesting match. Good advice. Thanks for the response. Look forward to the post on using ground dash.

-DFA

[brutal_prog]

cyclops aaa is really good for black heart. I think it is the anti air that leaves him with the most options. off of any clk you get the option of either infinite, super, air combo, tag out or snap back. His sjhk airdash sjhk infinite is ok, but it builds your opponents meter faster than it will build yours. Most the time it is better to do it for a few reps and either launch and air combo, snap back, s.hk tag out, or just jump up and judgment day.

on another note, does anyone know how to use black heart effectively with cable's projectile assist? I have recently switched to using this one and don't ahve any good strats yet.

[LazyJ]

Originally posted by Dasrik
IMO Psylocke is bad with BH. She doesn't cover enough ground and doesn't keep the opponent blocking long enough. Just about the only thing she has good is an easy ass damage combo (shorts plus Psylocke, inferno into armageddon) but that's fool's gold. Psylocke is a Magneto-only assist.

Cyclops is so much better. Monster damage off any low short on ANYONE plus reset opportunities AND a great covering assist to boot. I'll write more about that later, but it's hella good.

BH's assist keeps people from jumping to escape. Psylocke already offers reason enough to not jump in on her (short psiblade is totally safe) but you can use BH in combination with rushdown s.fierce xx psi-flash patterns. There might actually be hope for a Psylocke/BH team, but the team has to be Psylocke-based, not BH, IMO.

i think psylocke is the last assist BH should be using. i used to use BH sentinel tron and i was really successful with it but i didnt realize that by putting sentinel on rocketpunch assist i added room for another toptier character. BH sentinel works together just as well as sentinel BH. so in my opinion BH sentinel-A is the ideal BH team because you can switch around the order and still have a deadly team. i tried mags BH cyc and that worked pretty well but i now i use mags BH sentinel just because they work so well together. all 3 of them. magneto can jump around with fierces while calling BH assist and rushdown with it. mags can also use sentinel -A like rowtron and sent mags-a is great and so is BH mags-A. if you know how to play as BH you can really hurt people with that team. or you can put in cable - b for mags or sent. BH is really good with cable too. after a short+cable, short, infernoxxHOD. the opponent either gets sucked into only the inferno and fall straight down into the HOD or they keep going up till they go off the screen and for some reason a glitch happens where its not possible to block the last part of the HOD because you were so high. you can also use cable assist to set up the BH infinite. it works if you superjump cancel out of the medium kicks. i think since BH is really weak against certain characters you cant afford to have nontoptier assists incase BH dies fast.

[Ouroborus]

I use BH. My favorite assist for him is Cyke.

It cover half of the screen and it is invincible at startup, which is a big help to BH as thats the area he has the most trouble in, up close and personal.

It also sets up his infinite, which is good for DHCs and air judgement day combos which are safe against Cable.

At the start of the matchup, I like to jump toward my opponent with j. lp and cykes AAA and then work my way from there.

Also, IMO, Spiral/Sent/BH is the best Spiral team as BHs AAA makes Spiral so much better.

[Dasrik]

DeathFromAbove: Good points, but ... guardbreak with what precisely? BH can guardbreak, sure, but unless he's in the corner or in point blank range, he can't make it count. Also, good point about fierce DT. Now that I think about it, you could actually do Y-Sent, fierce dark thunder xx HOD and if you do it right that could actually be safe Cable chip. The trick would be, get them to block dark thunder, then drones, then HOD.

brutal_prog: BH/Cyclops gets good damage and pins almost by itself. Personally, I think the best combo for BH/Cyke is shorts plus Cyke, SJ.RH, dashback RH, then get close and inferno xx arma. Alternately, you can go for a reset by letting them land from the reset then doing shorts plus Cyke again (works if you time it right). Don't do the infinite for too long. It doesn't really do enough sustained damage to be worth it.

LazyJ: I like that post, you made a great case for A-Sentinel. I've maintained that Y-Sent is better for BH. I still believe that in most relevant fights it is, but you've given me something to think about. When it comes to BH, A-Sent acts as a welfare Commando, punishing assists and being used in the BH combo. One fight where I'd take A-Sent over Y-Sent for sure, though, is on Cable. A-Sent offers a no-thought assist punishment while you superjump, and gives you a Cable-safe combo (shorts with A-Sent, optional inferno, armageddon). I just have the same problem with A-Sent as I do with Commando. While he's out, you can't really attack safely, and have to guess.

Ouroborus: BH actually doesn't have problems with snuffing attacks up close, his problem is he doesn't do a lot of damage per hit without assists. Cyclops is good because it keeps the opponent blocking and allows BH his choice to either runaway or move in on the opponent again (ie. the rushdown style of BH that was once popular in the EC). Cyke also sets up Armageddon well, which is good if you mash well because it does TONS of damage AND gets BH close to the opponent again. And yeah, Spiral/BH is pretty damn good as well.

[Dasrik]

BH is one of two characters in the game without a standard dash (the other being Zangief). Sure, he has an airdash, but without a wavedash or a way to move in quick for a combo on the ground, BH is disadvantaged in a lot of situations. This much is true. But you can use the tools he DOES have to your advantage as well.

Keep in mind I'm still experimenting with all of these. Stuff you have to add is duly appreciated.

Part One - Ground Dash
I consider BH's ground dash to be a special move. He sinks into the ground and pops back up either halfscreen or short of fullscreen either in front or behind. Sounds complicated? I'll break it down for you:
Ground Dash Forward (short): Tap forward twice
Ground Dash Forward (long): Tap forward once, then hold forward
Ground Dash Back (short): Tap back twice
Ground Dash Back (long): Tap back once, then hold back

With that out of the way, if you're going to use ground dash, first know that BH is vulnerable both at the beginning and the end of the dash. That means if you're going to use his dash on a grounded opponent, you have to cover it with an assist. Y-Sentinel is the best assist for this purpose, but B-Doom works as well as any beam assist that lasts for a respectable amount of time (A-Cable, A-IM), albeit not as well.

What's the ground dash good for? It's of limited use because of its vulnerable time at the beginning (without it, that dash would be SO much better). But you can use it where you would use the wavedash to get beneath an opponent when they superjump. You can also break some silly traps with it if you notice the opponent is playing automatic. However, a covered ground dash can be REALLY great on Cable. Call projectile assist then dash through Cable. If he doesn't zap you by the time you enter the ground, then he won't be able to zap you, period, and you're free to attack him for awhile.

You can get really creative with the ground dash if you know how it works. With Y-Sentinel, the dash can be really good, but as I said, it can work with other assists too. It's a new toy that I'm still playing with. I'll report my progress :)

Part Two - Coasting Dash
If you cancel BH's airdash with an attack almost as soon as you do it, BH coasts for awhile, which can be useful to bait out attacks or to stay in the air longer. It's the same idea as Magneto and Storm, but you can combine this with demons to make yourself a really hard-to-hit target. Stuff like sj.fierce, dashback (or forward!) jab can get really annoying. You can also do this with a airdash close to the floor, making it a kinda-sorta wavedash.

Part Three - Saving Your Airdash
It's usually better to not airdash in a superjump unless you have to. Saving your airdash allows you to get considerably more damage off of an air-to-air hit. BH's jabs and shorts do as much damage as most character's strongs and forwards, so a simple jab short, dash, jab short strong can do a lot of damage. Also, if the opponent blocks the jab, you can dash forward and throw them. Great on Cable, among others, and they seldom see it coming.

[DeathFromAbove]

Originally posted by Dasrik
DeathFromAbove: Good points, but ... guardbreak with what precisely? BH can guardbreak, sure, but unless he's in the corner or in point blank range, he can't make it count. Also, good point about fierce DT. Now that I think about it, you could actually do Y-Sent, fierce dark thunder xx HOD and if you do it right that could actually be safe Cable chip. The trick would be, get them to block dark thunder, then drones, then HOD.
jump upforward lp,lk if you want them far away, or lp,lp XX airdash (crossup) lp if you wanna stay close. Or switchout. :) For positioning more than damage. Not a match strategy, since it always runs the risk of getting hit with an assist, but a nice pickup, and worth the risk if you're losing, particularly the switchout. BH has a really hard time overcoming deficits, IMO. Maybe you can make a post on "fighting from behind."

Oh, and I'm pretty sure that's not safe chip on Cable. The whole point of DT is that I want them to be able to react to it, which is BAAAAD when it's Cable, especially with my assist out. :eek:

-DFA

[master ken]

When your opponent is in the corner, always remember to trap that !!

[ej333]

how the hell does BH attack sentinel? sentinel's super armor eats my shorts whenever i land on him, and he just launches me during mid short! should i just be stalling Sentinel, not really attacking him?

right now, when i play BH vs Sentinel, i just superjump, throw FP demons, airdash back, then do nothing, hoping that Sentinel runs into my FP demons. i'll also try to jab him if i ever get close to him at superjump height.

[LazyJ]

Originally posted by Dasrik

LazyJ: I like that post, you made a great case for A-Sentinel. I've maintained that Y-Sent is better for BH. I still believe that in most relevant fights it is, but you've given me something to think about. When it comes to BH, A-Sent acts as a welfare Commando, punishing assists and being used in the BH combo. One fight where I'd take A-Sent over Y-Sent for sure, though, is on Cable. A-Sent offers a no-thought assist punishment while you superjump, and gives you a Cable-safe combo (shorts with A-Sent, optional inferno, armageddon). I just have the same problem with A-Sent as I do with Commando. While he's out, you can't really attack safely, and have to guess.

i really dont see the need for sent - Y ever really. the only thing i find sent-Y useful for with BH is stopping trijumps but BH shouldnt need help avoiding those. he can cover himself so well with Fierces shorts and delayed airdashing(airdashing at the end of your SJ to leave the gap open) that a magneto shouldnt be able to be close to you without blocking. i think youre right about not being able to attack safely and that sent-Y covers his own body but it just doesnt cut it for me. if i cant take a chunk of life off the opponent when i want then the character isnt even worth playing. sent -Y is ok when you have another AAA but shorts with RP assist infernoxxsuper is too damaging to consider trading in for something else. but most people use BH with a "realAAA"(i consider real AAAs the ones where they are never meant to see the fight from point like capcom and cyke) because then you have a better way to deal damage and sent-Y would add more variety to the team but as i said before with BH teams i think you need point men incase BH gets killed fast which does happen a lot. ill give you a situation for this. if you start BH mags sent-A vs mags cable psylock and you do inferno HOD mags counters in cable to take the last hit giving him a guaranteed AHVB on BH. BH is dead and now you have mags sent-a. or you could have picked sent-y cyclops. i dont see the cyclops assist doing so much better than sent-A that you could trade him in as a point character and still have the advantage of damage done to the opponent while having no magneto to deal further damage. what i said is kinda confusing but i'm sure you get what imean.

[SSF2T]

Blackheart is the main player in my team...

Blackheart(b), Gouki/Akuma(b), Ironman(a)

They may not seem like much... but I got a OCV with them, before a tourney... :D

And Gouki/Akuma took a team out by himself, because he was left to die. You know... I've done this twice now. And both times, before a tourney. This time it was Cable, Sent., Mag, all at 50% life... maybe more. The other was Cable, and Cyc. At about 50%, and 80%. It's quite funny, to see people's reaction on his speed, when he dashes. And that's how I won... :evil:... all of a sudden, Dash, c.LK, c.HP, sj.LP, LP, Hurricane Kick(2hits), Tenma Gou Zankuu... 50% went to 5%.

Anyways... what I do is... sj.HK, and not air dash out of it. And the most amazing part is... NO ONE DOES THIS. Or atleast I've never seen anyone do this. They always use him, Blackheart, to build meters. sj.HK, AD/B, HK... :bluu:... they don't even see his true power. Anyways... if you fall with the minions/demons/goblins... whatever... you will land in the back of your opponent. And half of the time... more like 75% of the time. Your opponent will still be blocking, giving you a chance to do: s.LK, s.HK, Ironman Assist, sj.HK, repeat... or whatever you like.

Anyways... if they opponent gets caught by the sj.HK, you can land s.LK, s.HK, Ironman Assist, HOD/Judgement Day... patent pending, patent pending... and you know what. THEY CAN'T MASH OUT OF IT!. It's funny to see people try to mash it, then screen freezes, and they notice that they are getting hit by one of the slowest Hyper Combo(Judgement Day,) in the world. Though it's not a guarantee... as Judgement Day varies. But HOD is a 100% thing. Never missed... or atleast I never missed.

Gouki/Akuma is there for DHC, Counter+Super, and knocking away any pesky bugs. Though he may not seem like a good assest. You have to see him in play, before you say anything.

And Ironman... well... he doesn't need an explaination.

[kriptonx]

Blackheart is too slow, do any of you know at least like an air combo for his ass? Ive played with him a couple of times but he really sucks for combos. :)

[Nemesis00]

Originally posted by kriptonx
Blackheart is too slow, do any of you know at least like an air combo for his ass? Ive played with him a couple of times but he really sucks for combos. :)

You want an air combo eh?

Jump-In LK, MK, OC.Launch, LP, LK, MP, Air Dash forward, LP, LK, MP*, Throw

*This MP only hits in the corner.

[DeathFromAbove]

Originally posted by SSF2T
Anyways... what I do is... sj.HK, and not air dash out of it. And the most amazing part is... NO ONE DOES THIS. Or atleast I've never seen anyone do this. They always use him, Blackheart, to build meters. sj.HK, AD/B, HK... :bluu:... they don't even see his true power. Anyways... if you fall with the minions/demons/goblins... whatever... you will land in the back of your opponent. And half of the time... more like 75% of the time. Your opponent will still be blocking, giving you a chance to do: s.LK, s.HK, Ironman Assist, sj.HK, repeat... or whatever you like.

Anyways... if they opponent gets caught by the sj.HK, you can land s.LK, s.HK, Ironman Assist, HOD/Judgement Day... patent pending, patent pendingWhoa! It's the old MSF scrubber pattern. Never thought I'd see that again.

[totalScrubPower]

Don't know if it will "work" but I think tron bonne's throw assist might be good for blackheart.

LAME STRATEGY:
The thing, is blackheart's demon should cover, tron bonne, while she taunts after she throws, and unlike zangief who spends time actually spends time walking toward your opponent, tron bonne just comes out right away and pops the opponent up, to allow juggles from an assisted throw. The flip side is , tron bonne only controls the ground, but i think imo that Blackheart could hold himself in the air.

The most advantegous thing i could think of about tron's throw assist is that it is unblockable, and off of tron's throw assist, blackheart could possibly go for instant dhc or jump up and do a basic lp, lk, lp, lk.

Example: Tron's throw assist connects, do either the barfing super or armaggedon super, if blackheart is low on life and needs to say dhc then tron's assist could set up a good instant dhc such as demon spit super into proton cannon. Also you could throw them right into your aerial fierce demon, setting up for Blackheart infinite.

One of the most useful thing is, immediately on tron's throw assist connect do armaggedon, that way you get "full damge". About half life on Cable. Mashed the buttons!!!!

The flip or downside in which I hate is that, blackheart is no longer safe, as tron boone can't hold the opponent in place like Doom can.

And it isn't so bad to use tron bonne as the last character, even as the second character as dhcing into king kobun is a good way to messed around with assist.

[Dasrik]

DeathFromAbove: Good idea. I'll try to work on that.

ej333: It depends on the Sentinel player. Most Sentinel players fly a lot, and BH doesn't really have a great deal of trouble with that. He has a pattern he can follow, which is: superjump, throw a demon, airdash back and wait. The demon depends on where Sentinel is. If he stays on the ground, do roundhouse; if he starts to jump, press fierce. Then dashback and wait. If Sentinel is superjumping and beginning to fly, hit fierce. If he stays on the ground still, do nothing. Now Sentinel has to figure out a way to fly around the demons, or unfly. Inferno XX HOD would be good here. Also, Commando helps this pattern out a LOT.

If Sentinel stays on the ground then your job is harder. You have to rush Sentinel down. This is easier with BH/Doom. Either way, you want to jump a lot. Sometimes sacing an assist and then sj.judgement day when Sentinel HSFs it is a good gambit to play. You can also use judgement day if the opponent thinks that s.roundhouse is the universal answer to a BH super jump in. Just don't throw fierce demons. Sentinel's vomit eats that for lunch.

LazyJ: You're right, Blackheart doesn't need the help to cover the tri-jump. What he DOES need is a way to cover his tracks if the opponent decides to just dash under the fierce demons and smack BH on the way down. BH/Y-Sent takes a lot of the guesswork out of the situation. Plus, once the opponent thinks he has to ground dash to beat you, you can set him up to take some damage. S.RH + Y-Sent is free damage if the enemy gets hit. Plus, BH/Y-Sent shuts down the match way better than BH/A-Sent does, and that is the usual goal.

SSF2T: That strategy is okay IF the opponent thinks that staying on the ground is the way to beat you. BH's recovery on sj.demons is long, but he does recover on his way down, which can lead to a cross-up attempt or tick throw. Or, just drop Doom on their head. However, this only works if your opponent starts playing patterns. I wouldn't try it too much.

kriptonx: Best combo is SJ.Jab -> SJ.Short -> SJ.Strong, airdash forward, SJ.Jab -> SJ.Short -> ender. You can end it with an airthrow, SJ.Strong, or SJ.Forward -> SJ.RH (wouldn't recommend the last one). However, in a pinch, it's much easier to just do SJ.Jab -> SJ.Short, airdash forward, SJ.Jab -> ender.

totalScrubPower: You can do some good set-ups with A-Tron, especially if your opponent doesn't feel confident in in-close battles. A-Tron sets them up to eat a lot of combos in the future.

[xBlackheartx]

This is a good thread..

BTW can someoen give me stradegy for BH-Strider-Doom i just started using this team.

[TheGreatMagnus]

I used to play Sentneil/Cyclops/BH, i used to own with this team... Use BH either on point or 2nd, sj.roundhouse to throw demons and dash and throw more, while calling cyclops AAA when u land and do it all again... Its a good lock down but its not a 100%, but if u learn it really well then u can just about stop anyone no matter then character... And sentneil is a beat down character you can never go wrong with him... Ive been testing out a new team that has to deal with Anakaris... But as i learn this team i well post here to let yall know, and before anyone has some rude comment about me posting about Anakaris here. I have BH in my team. :D :p :D

[TheGreatMagnus]

But i wont let yall know my 3rd person... Keeping it all to myself... hahaha :evil: :evil:

[TheGreatMagnus]

Just to point out, anyone that plays BH Cheap, isnt really a BH Player... i kind of think BH can be very Cheap... And i dispise Cheap BH Players... :lol: :lol:

[Dasrik]

xBlackheartx: Use Blackheart strictly to build meter for Strider. Don't try to do any damage with BH, just trap with Doom and either tag in Strider or DHC into the trap.

TheGreatMagnus: I'll be sure to keep an eye out :)

[TheGreatMagnus]

Heh, i dont really go to tourneys never been to one. YET!! But i promise you, when i go to a MvC2 Tourney, i well have alot of fun... Watch for either Anakaris/BH or OmegaRed/BH im cooking up some nastly lil teams, in this crazy mind of mine. Heh :lol: :evil:
I well have a DreamCast in a month or 2, seeing how i missed resurving my copy for PS2. DAMN IT!!! But i well surely be practiceing in the arcades around here, cause i want to make it to a MvC2 Tourney, when ever the hold a few more.. :) not sure when ill have the $MONEY$ :lol: :bluu:

[astro86]

O_o i dont know if this has been posted but ive seen alot of ppl do Sj RH AD RH why? when u do the secound RH u cant block and if mag or storm get by ur helper it's a free launch for them. play it safe and only do one RH.

[TheGreatMagnus]

RoundHouse is to spit out demons, and if u sj.roundhouse they well have to block those demons, and then u can airdash backwards or forwards and spit out more demons. Its to keep them out the air and under your control pretty much, and if u connect with either set of demons u can drop do a air combo, or inferno xx hod.

[astro86]

and when u do that u are vonarable cuz that dosent stop magneto, because he can dash under the first set and then wave dash the secound set of demons, and so can storm. u need and assits like Doom or Sent drones to keep them from dashing in.

[SSF2T]

Originally posted by DeathFromAbove
Whoa! It's the old MSF scrubber pattern. Never thought I'd see that again.

Hey... if it works... I'm keeping it... :D
You see... so many people are used to seeing sj.HK, AD/B, HK, etc. etc. etc. But as soon as you change your pattern. They're not used to the sudden change. Giving you an advantage. For maybe... 5-10secs. By changing back and forth between the "scrubby pattern", and the "building meters pattern"... you get something called, "WTF is that!?" Well... not exactly... but I haven't gotten a name yet... :sweat:...

Originally posted by Dasrik
SSF2T: That strategy is okay IF the opponent thinks that staying on the ground is the way to beat you. BH's recovery on sj.demons is long, but he does recover on his way down, which can lead to a cross-up attempt or tick throw. Or, just drop Doom on their head. However, this only works if your opponent starts playing patterns. I wouldn't try it too much.

Yeah I know. Most of the time, the opponent doesn't really do much. Sj. may be risky... so they sometimes wave dash under. Which is one of the few times I actually cancel into the AD. Everytime I see BH, it's always... sj.HK, AD/B, HK, land, repeat... Ooo... fun. And if they are in the air... well... that's when it's time to hold the ground levels for awhile. Though... that's why you have to take the air first. Controlling Air Space... that's BH's number priority. At times... the most basic, may become the most advance. Old... yes. Scrubby... most likely. Does it work... heh... 50/50. But mix it with the proper assists, and you get a scrubby, yet it works for some stupid reason, pattern.

[TheGreatMagnus]

astro u r so wrong, i used to own magneto/storm users ez with BlackHeart with Cyclops AAA. I seem to have no problems with my old team, which is: BlackHeart-Anti-Air, Sentinel-Ground, Cyclops-Anti-Air

P.S. Dont use BlackHeart with Cyclops Assist if u do not know how to use them to lock them down... Only Pro Cheap PPL Can Use Them... :lol:

[astro86]

why am i wrong? plz do elaborate not just say am wrong.

[TheGreatMagnus]

seeing how u say, "magneto can dash under u" all u have to do is sj.rh, ad.backward or forward, drop infront of them throw Cyclops AAA assist as he comes out, sj.rh, ad.backward or forward, drop infront of them throw Cyclops AAA, and do it all over agian. Ive done this and it works, like i said i dont fear magneto players, nore do i fear sentinel/storm/top tier players. Cause i know how to play almost every top tier character in the game, its not that hard to lock someone down with BH/Cyclops. So when i say u r wrong, its probly cause u dont play BH like other ppl across the world do.

[hulk]

Here is the thing. I'll play in a tourney in a place where I'm not confortable with the sticks, so I decided to play a easy execution team(bh,cable,commando).

But I know almost nothing about BH. I start with c.lk, c.lk, commando. If it hits, combo into Inf, HoD. If not, sj HK, AD, fall with sj lk sj lk and repeat it all over again. That's pretty much what I can do. Most opponents will play rushdown on me, and I can't block right with those sticks. So is this a viable tactic? What can i do to improve it fast(tourney is saturday)? How can I use HPs and LPs, specially against Magneto and other rushdown characters? What do I do when my opp has Comm assist or any other that my disrupt my , well, let's say, trap?


Thank you very much for any help you can give me!!!

[DeathFromAbove]

Originally posted by hulk
Here is the thing. I'll play in a tourney in a place where I'm not confortable with the sticks, so I decided to play a easy execution team(bh,cable,commando).

But I know almost nothing about BH. I start with c.lk, c.lk, commando. If it hits, combo into Inf, HoD. If not, sj HK, AD, fall with sj lk sj lk and repeat it all over again. That's pretty much what I can do. Most opponents will play rushdown on me, and I can't block right with those sticks. So is this a viable tactic? What can i do to improve it fast(tourney is saturday)? How can I use HPs and LPs, specially against Magneto and other rushdown characters? What do I do when my opp has Comm assist or any other that my disrupt my , well, let's say, trap?


Thank you very much for any help you can give me!!!
Here's some advice:

Do stuff other people don't. Everybody knows how to beat BH's basic stuff, so don't even bother using it. Against rushdown, when you get most of a screen of seperation (3/4+), do something that seems stupid. Guaranteed they won't see it coming. If they're intent on rushing, you'll get dumb hits. Check my post on page 1 for some not-safe, but nonetheless effective things to do against rushers. When you don't have that seperation, get airborne and stick out an LP, and try to airdash to get that seperation. Call an assist, do something, just GET IT OFF! A good player once summarized BH's entire gameplan as, "get it off! get it off! get it off of me!"

But don't do that against Cables. There's some stuff on page 1 or 2 about how to fight Cable, too.

[50mOrEcEnTz]

im not an avid blackheart user, because i don't like his normal stuff, even though when it is used right it can be a bitch to get around.


what about some blackheart/tron? any stuff i should know, or peepz that use blackheart should know?

[hulk]

Originally posted by DeathFromAbove

Here's some advice:

Do stuff other people don't. Everybody knows how to beat BH's basic stuff, so don't even bother using it. Against rushdown, when you get most of a screen of seperation (3/4+), do something that seems stupid. Guaranteed they won't see it coming. If they're intent on rushing, you'll get dumb hits. Check my post on page 1 for some not-safe, but nonetheless effective things to do against rushers. When you don't have that seperation, get airborne and stick out an LP, and try to airdash to get that seperation. Call an assist, do something, just GET IT OFF! A good player once summarized BH's entire gameplan as, "get it off! get it off! get it off of me!"

But don't do that against Cables. There's some stuff on page 1 or 2 about how to fight Cable, too.

Thanks, but I don't think the people I'll fight on this particular tourney are very much used to BH. I'm pretty sure that if it wasn't for the weird controls, I would be a serious favorite with a storm/sent team.
That being said, I think I'll try to base my game around the pattern I mentioned, and then use the stuff you pointed me too to add some variation/surprisde into the game. So, what are teh weaknesses of my original strat? What do I have to keep in mind to avoid being damaged, specially against rushdown?

Against Cable and Sentinel, I think I'll start my own Cable. Bh vs cable isn't for me :)

Thanks!

[LightningStorm]

Originally posted by hulk
Against Cable and Sentinel, I think I'll start my own Cable. Bh vs cable isn't for me :)

BH vs Cable... isn't really for anybody.... Although I can make it happen on occassion. :D

[BlueNu]

Mags does own BH pretty hard...if you super jump with demons, you WILL get crossed up eventually, and against a good mags, that means you will die. Now, if you want to play BH/Cykes lockdown, don't sj at all....normal jump back with FP....bait the mags into rushing in, then jump back with an HK and hope he isn't on the other side of you by then....at this point, you can jump back, HK, call cykes (or preferably doom), then jump in with HK, jump back with lk, lp, call assist, jump in with HK. Always keep in mind that about 50% of the damage you deal with BH will come from chip.

[hulk]

Originally posted by BlueNu
Mags does own BH pretty hard...if you super jump with demons, you WILL get crossed up eventually, and against a good mags, that means you will die. Now, if you want to play BH/Cykes lockdown, don't sj at all....normal jump back with FP....bait the mags into rushing in, then jump back with an HK and hope he isn't on the other side of you by then....at this point, you can jump back, HK, call cykes (or preferably doom), then jump in with HK, jump back with lk, lp, call assist, jump in with HK. Always keep in mind that about 50% of the damage you deal with BH will come from chip.

Can i do something like that using Commando assist?

[Dasrik]

About BH/Cable/Commando...

I don't like this team. Not at all. But I'm biased against BH/Cable (it doesn't help that I can't do CAHVB to save my life). First of all, your opponent can start Cable and potentially just wreck your entire team from the outset. While BH isn't really helpless against Cable from an even playing field, he can't afford to make any mistakes. And since BH/Commando doesn't give you a Cable-safe combo from anywhere, you don't have a good way to damage Cable either. Starting Cable doesn't help you much either, since BH will be all but useless against opposing Cable. There are other teams that can eat this team if they follow plans too (Doom/Storm destroys BH/Cable).

My opinion - go with BH/Storm/A-Sentinel. This is a good team with a solid plan, and you don't need a lot of dexterity to play with Storm. Irritate opponent with BH and land c.short x2 + A-Sent into Judgement Day xx Hail Storm. That's some really good damage right there.

blueNu: BH vs. Magneto is a match that everyone SAYS Magneto wins by far, but only the really good Magneto players really know why. You can use this knowledge for you by just knowing the patterns most Mags players go for and playing against them. BH/Cyke is really good for that. BH/Commando is decent, not quite as good, but really effective on Mags players that whore Psylocke.

In other news: I'm close to mastering c.strong superjump cancelled combos. They really are very good for maintaining initiative, so I feel they're worth it since BH tends to lose momentum after any combo he lands.

Standard c.strong SJ.cancelled combo:

C.Short -> C.Strong ^ (SJ.Cancel) SJ.Short, AD Forward, SJ.Short, SJ.Forward (FS), SJ.Fierce.

Buffer the second short kick into fierce. The pigs will come out behind the opponent and cover you in case of forced dash (although that actually doesn't happen very often), and you can continue to pressure the opponent.

[master ken]

Dasrik :

The other day, I was playing against the BH cpu and here is what he did while I was in the air :

Inferno XX qcf + pp(sorry, I don't remember the name of the hyper combo), then he was able to SJ and air combo me :eek: I was like wtf !!
have you ever done this ? cause I still can't find out when is the right time to SJ. Also, can you do inferno XX hod instead of an air combo ? that would be tight, two hyper combos in one combo :cool:


edit :
actualy it's qcf, not qcb, it's the hyper combo where BH raises his arms and rocks come hit you from the sky :)

[DeathFromAbove]

Originally posted by master ken
Dasrik :

The other day, I was playing against the BH cpu and here is what he did while I was in the air :

Inferno XX qcf + pp(sorry, I don't remember the name of the hyper combo), then he was able to SJ and air combo me :eek: I was like wtf !!
have you ever done this ? cause I still can't find out when is the right time to SJ. Also, can you do inferno XX hod instead of an air combo ? that would be tight, two hyper combos in one combo :cool:


edit :
actualy it's qcf, not qcb, it's the hyper combo where BH raises his arms and rocks come hit you from the sky :)
Shhhh...you're giving away my secrets.

Actually, the trick is to cancel the Inferno kinda late. That will cause the rocks to hit them pretty low to the ground. IF you do it just right you can s.hp XX Judgment day right afterwards. HARD. Changes with opponents fall speed, too, and rocks are random so it's not ALWAYS possible. I mean, hell, Armageddon doesn't even always combo all of it's hits together.

[kriptonx]

What's the most basic air combo with Blackheart?

[EvilGouki]

launch sj.lp, sj.lk, air dash forward sj.lp, sj.lk, sj.lp throw

Wordx
Kevin

[YogaInferno]

Im not sure if this thread is dead or not, but if yall havent seen a video of "BH INFINITE" my god you are missing out. :evil: The sh*t they do is way to evil. :evil:

[LightningStorm]

Originally posted by YogaInferno
Im not sure if this thread is dead or not, but if yall havent seen a video of "BH INFINITE" my god you are missing out. :evil: The sh*t they do is way to evil. :evil:

Where's this video located? And I hope you don't mean the sj demon ad demon infinite where they keep bouncing? Cause everyone already knows that one. :)

[BrazilionBH]

Originally posted by EvilGouki
launch sj.lp, sj.lk, air dash forward sj.lp, sj.lk, sj.lp throw

Wordx
Kevin Heres a better one.Lift,jump,jab,pause,jab,shrt,strng,airdash,jab ,shrt,strng,frwd.

[YogaInferno]

Actually BH has 3 Ininfiites, The Demon Bounce and he has one where he jumps airdash lk lk land then demons and does it all over again. Must be in the corner. I dont remember the site i got them from, but i have them stored in "My Folders"

[LightningStorm]

Originally posted by YogaInferno
Actually BH has 3 Ininfiites, The Demon Bounce and he has one where he jumps airdash lk lk land then demons and does it all over again. Must be in the corner. I dont remember the site i got them from, but i have them stored in "My Folders"

Yeah, I know about the corner one too... that one can be shaken out of.

But the third one.... I'd like to see.

[ironflip]

hey i'm new with this bh and i use bh(b),ironman(a),cyce(B) i was getting smashed by my friends cable and bh team though and he had capcom as his aaa. wat the hell do i do againts that with my blackheart

[LightningStorm]

Originally posted by ironflip
hey i'm new with this bh and i use bh(b),ironman(a),cyce(B) i was getting smashed by my friends cable and bh team though and he had capcom as his aaa. wat the hell do i do againts that with my blackheart

To combat CapCom's aaa with anybody... DOOM aaa.

Although I like to have CapCom too and bait theirs, then call mine right afterwards.

[Dasrik]

Originally posted by ironflip
hey i'm new with this bh and i use bh(b),ironman(a),cyce(B) i was getting smashed by my friends cable and bh team though and he had capcom as his aaa. wat the hell do i do againts that with my blackheart If he starts Cable, start Ironman. You don't need to be great with Ironman to do good on Cable or even know his infinite, just do the triple fierce aircombo. If he starts BH, I recommend switching Ironman to B and be hesitant to spaz on those demons. Move in like you're going to throw them, block when CapCom comes out, then call IM assist to majorly fuck Commando up. Also, if BH comes out vs. Cable, you can do low shorts plus Cyke into sj.rh, land, armageddon combo.

[arcticninja]

I've taken up Blackheart recently, and I think he's a very underated character. He is just so annoying to fight against. Once you learn how to fight Cable and Sentinel, he becomes a viable character. People say that Cable owns Blackheart, but I disagree. Blackheart has the tools to take down Cable; he just has to be very careful about it.

The teams I use Blackheart in are Doom/Blackheart/CapCom and Blackheart/Cable/Cyclops. I have different strategies for both teams and they work really well against my friend who is almost as good as me (his team is Cable/Sentinel/AAA).


I'll just share my Blackheart/Doom combo that I bet everyone knows, but no one uses.

Call Doom assist, Inferno, assist hits, Inferno XX Heart of Darkness.

I have gotten this combo to work consistently and it's a decent stalling/chipping tactic. Obviously, never try this combo in certain situations (like against Cable with 4 supers :p ).

I'm sure everyone knows this combo, but I never see anyone do it :o

[The_Beast]

Originally posted by LightningStorm


BH vs Cable... isn't really for anybody.... Although I can make it happen on occassion. :D

Yes, very rarely..............

[The_Beast]

Now, how do I play BH?

Hehehe...

Lots of patience and turtling.

Basically from the beginning of the match I see if I can get in on my opponent by calling my assist (Doom/or Tron) and jumping over them with lk.

If they block, yippee for them. I get just about the same amount in chip damage.

Now dependent on the other person's play style or the momentum of the game I will keep up this strategy or resort to sj. HK demons, dash forward, HP demons.

One thing that completely unnerves people is when you back into the corner and just keep calling out your assist and jumping straight up and doing HK demons. If they jump with you do HP demons.

All in all, most people think that this should be cake for them as you are repeating the same pattern but they always end up getting hit, wherein you should capitolize with "the bomb" and Armageddon.

When you're jumping straight up in the corner with BH, YOU control how fast/slow the gameplay is going to be.

:lol:

Until somone drops an aaa that cuts right throught that shit and you get rushed the fuck down.

[wipeout2049]

I am very new to blackheart. Is this air combo any good?:jab, short, strong, forward. Nobody have posted it and yet it's his basic AC. In the corner, add a j.fierce after the forward. When the opponent gets up, the pigs attack behind the opponent if they attack or not. It's another free air combo if they mess up. If they block then you trap them:evil:

[J.Lo]

Originally posted by ironflip
hey i'm new with this bh and i use bh(b),ironman(a),cyce(B) i was getting smashed by my friends cable and bh team though and he had capcom as his aaa. wat the hell do i do againts that with my blackheart

you just need to rush more. cable/bh/capcom is a team that is basically engineered to beat sentinel. you can trap him with cable and bh inferno assist all day. it's very hard to get out of this if cable knows what he is doing and zones you. this team has trouble against faster moving teams, like msp. ironman will beat this team if you continually wavedash at BH. try to get under BH and do his standing HK. with cable...you know the deal. patience, patience, patience. land him in some hard hitting combos and try to hurt capcom as much as you can. if you can, try to snapback capcom in a guardbreak him.

p.s. - you're playing jeff's team. zoh!

p.p.s - im never playing at towson again(that's a lie). their sticks are garbage and greg thinks he can honestly beat me. nobody rushes down my cable:evil:

[ironflip]

is that u jose. u so gay man. hahahaha. that team kills though man. and yeah it is very hard to beat someone's cable with blackheart if they know wat they are doing.ecpeacially if they have an aaa that kills bh in the game. it takes away his whole game and he gets trap so easily cause he so slow and big. i guess it's a bad idea to even match bh with cable. oh wells iron man is the shit anyways. still man i will master bh:p

[Dasrik]

Originally posted by wipeout2049
I am very new to blackheart. Is this air combo any good?:jab, short, strong, forward. Nobody have posted it and yet it's his basic AC. In the corner, add a j.fierce after the forward. When the opponent gets up, the pigs attack behind the opponent if they attack or not. It's another free air combo if they mess up. If they block then you trap them:evil: There's a very good reason to not do this air combo: you'll get owned when they get knocked right in front of you while you are forced to dash in.

It's really sad, though... on the rare times where my jump forward activates flying screen and I'm not low to the floor, almost no one I play thinks to low short me as I come in. Alternately, all the scrubs that try to use BH do that combo and then glare at me or the stick as I combo them when they come in ("What the fuck, I was blocking?!!?")

[Dasrik]

Oh yeah, while I was tooling around in SHGL, I found a really hyper skilled helper infinite for Blackheart, it's... are you ready... wait for it...

...

..

.

..

...

....

.....

jump forward fierce xN

That's right. It works. I'm not kidding.

[wipeout2049]

I can't connect the jab after air dashing after the strong:fury: I found the timing to keep to opponent slightly above me but when I air dash while executing the jab, either it hits the opponent but doesn't count on the hit meter, or the opponent fall and I whiff! Can anyone help me?

[Dasrik]

Originally posted by wipeout2049
I can't connect the jab after air dashing after the strong:fury: I found the timing to keep to opponent slightly above me but when I air dash while executing the jab, either it hits the opponent but doesn't count on the hit meter, or the opponent fall and I whiff! Can anyone help me? Well, I would, but I don't usually do the strong unless I'm in the corner. I'm sure someone can explain the timing, but I haven't really had the chance to practice. I always just do jab short, AD jab throw in a combo.

[totalScrubPower]

ok, here something i need help in.

How does Blackheart beat Sentinel?

[Dasrik]

Originally posted by totalScrubPower
ok, here something i need help in.

How does Blackheart beat Sentinel? He doesn't.

BH/AAA can stalemate Sentinel ONLY if the Sentinel player isn't aggro. In which case, BH can use the sj.fierce, airdash back pattern to cut Sentinel's options. If you get clear out of frying pan range, do that. If Sentinel flies towards you and ignores the fierce demons, you can call Commando and MAYBE Inferno xx HOD for some damage. If he unflies and blocks, you can go for sj.jab, airdash, throw. These are the only times where BH gets to do anything, though, and the payoffs he gets are extremely low compared to what Sentinel gets if he gets a hit.

Otherwise, just block and push to get clear. You're not getting opportunities to hit a good Sentinel player. If you manage to get a hit (jump-in usually to catch him doing something foolish on the ground), and if you have Commando, do shorts into fierce DT into HOD (Inferno XX HOD won't work).

The problem with BH vs. Sent is that BH CAN'T hold a lead against Sentinel by just blocking. You can get your lead chipped away in a hurry.

[wipeout2049]

I only experimented with Blackheart's air combos for a minute. Maybe that's why I can't get that air dash air combo. I am busy with school and RPGs.

I noticed that the stun time on Blackheart's AAA assist isn't really long at all. If fact, the opponent recover a split second after the second hit hits making it difficult for decent follow-ups. Does that mean that the opponent is free to attack right after he recovers from the assist? Right now, all I can follow-up is a simple air combo.

[coolman126]

my team for blackheart is:

blackheart/sent/tron

is it a good or at least, decent team?

[master ken]

After playing a lot against BH players, I seriously don't recommand playing with this character, he's got too many disadvantages. His inferno XX hod isn't safe at all. If you're in the air, you can air dash/lp RP/lightning attack/vp/ahvb in between inferno and hod; I'm not sure, but I think you can also double jump. If you're grounded, you can guard cancel and hit him for free, it's really easy, all you have to do is push block when you see the inferno and hold the stick up forward. Sometimes you can also tag in cable, take the hits, and burn that shit :lol:
Even if BH hits you with inferno XX hod, you have the advantage, cause you can trap and chip him/load knives if you're playing with spiral/dash towards him and counter his assists then rush him down/ahvb that shit for freeee.
If BH tries to sj and throw deamons, you can dash/wave dash underneath him and cross him over.

BH's options are really limited, he can do well only if he gets his oponent in the corner and traps him. However, his pockes are really good for air to air battles, they have a lot of priorities, that's the only thing that annoys me the most.

[LightningStorm]

Originally posted by master ken
After playing a lot against BH players, I seriously don't recommand playing with this character, he's got too many disadvantages. His inferno XX hod isn't safe at all. If you're in the air, you can air dash/lp RP/lightning attack/vp/ahvb in between inferno and hod; I'm not sure, but I think you can also double jump. If you're grounded, you can guard cancel and hit him for free, it's really easy, all you have to do is push block when you see the inferno and hold the stick up forward. Sometimes you can also tag in cable, take the hits, and burn that shit :lol:
Even if BH hits you with inferno XX hod, you have the advantage, cause you can trap and chip him/load knives if you're playing with spiral/dash towards him and counter his assists then rush him down/ahvb that shit for freeee.
If BH tries to sj and throw deamons, you can dash/wave dash underneath him and cross him over.

BH's options are really limited, he can do well only if he gets his oponent in the corner and traps him. However, his pockes are really good for air to air battles, they have a lot of priorities, that's the only thing that annoys me the most.

You play against Blackhearts that suck ass. BH is not that limited. Only people who only know Demons or inferno xx HOD are people who get owned. BH has many options it's just a matter of knowing what to do against what characters. Against Cable, any one who plays BH would know you don't go Infernoing xx HOD. BH is also not only about SJ demons. Yeah they are a part of his game, but if that's all a BH player does then anybody can fuck him up for it. I'm telling you if I'm doing the SJ Demons on a character I know it's not good to be doing that on, it's because I'm baiting for something else.

[master ken]

Originally posted by LightningStorm


You play against Blackhearts that suck ass. BH is not that limited. Only people who only know Demons or inferno xx HOD are people who get owned. BH has many options it's just a matter of knowing what to do against what characters. Against Cable, any one who plays BH would know you don't go Infernoing xx HOD. BH is also not only about SJ demons. Yeah they are a part of his game, but if that's all a BH player does then anybody can fuck him up for it. I'm telling you if I'm doing the SJ Demons on a character I know it's not good to be doing that on, it's because I'm baiting for something else.
I was only listing BH's disadvantages, juste to let you know that BH's old tricks doesn't work well anymore.

I play against really good BH players, I'm not saying that BH completly sucks and that I beat those guys for free, no, I'm juste telling you that his options are limited.

Seriously, mk is right, bh has really limited options,

Please explain this miracle strat you will work to make it where magneto can't dash at you, cross you up or hurt your assist for trying nearly well...anything other than simple pokes and droppin sent or doom and attempting to stall..

[LightningStorm]

Originally posted by mixup
Seriously, mk is right, bh has really limited options,

Please explain this miracle strat you will work to make it where magneto can't dash at you, cross you up or hurt your assist for trying nearly well...anything other than simple pokes and droppin sent or doom and attempting to stall..

The strategy is simple. ADAPTATION.

It's not what I do that determines game play it's what the opponent does. Or if it's an opponent I know, then what they usually do.

First off BH should never be without assist... cause in this instance he does get owned by most characters. So with that said, I usually have CapCom's assist (sometimes Doom, Psylocke, or random other AAA). With CapCom's assist, I've have yet to play a Magneto I can't beat. Now does this mean I never lose to Magnus? No, not at all.... I have lost to many a Magneto players, but the ratio is 50/50 at worst (or at best, however you want to look at it). So, now you say "Well, then you must have played suck ass Magnetos..." Nope, I've played JWong's Magneto at MWC (in casual play), and that Mags lost to BH (not the rest of my team which consisted of Storm and CapCom). Then needless to say his Storm came on screen all pissed and ate me alive :p

I've also played against Magneto_x's mags many times in the past from NO (whom I know mixup knows).

The basic strat against the basic Mags player is keep CapCom on screen and BH air-borne with the "tail of Jesus" and occassional FP demons. And to get a safe Inferno xx HOD on Magnus... (although I dont' usually do this) one could use the Jab inferno with Storm's gamma assist into HOD. The Inferno will not hit mags but will prevent all forward movement on his part. The Storm Assist will pop up if he decides to jump straight up to dash later out of the HOD. And the HOD will hit if Mags gets hit with either the Inferno or the Typhoon... and if not decent chipping is done.

Also on Mags, like on Cable... Inferno xx Judgement Day prevents them from doing anything if at half screen or more. Safest on Cable than on Mags.. Mags should be at full screen to do this safely. But, of course, what good Magneto player will be at full screen?

[master ken]

Originally posted by LightningStorm
The strategy is simple. ADAPTATION.
...

I know what you're thinking, I was thinking the same way when I had a hard time beating BH players, but the more I played against these guys, the more I felt like he's limited. It's not just me who thinks the same way, even top us players like Shadyk, Viscant, clockwork, say BH sucks, this has been discussed on many threads in the past, just wait untill you get to play against real competition, but since this thread was meant to help out BH players, I'm not gonna argu anymore.

[LightningStorm]

Originally posted by master ken
I know what you're thinking, I was thinking the same way when I had a hard time beating BH players, but the more I played against these guys, the more I felt like he's limited. It's not just me who thinks the same way, even top us players like Shadyk, Viscant, clockwork, say BH sucks, this has been discussed on many threads in the past, just wait untill you get to play against real competition, but since this thread was meant to help out BH players, I'm not gonna argu anymore.

Oh, I'm not saying BH is godly... I'm just saying that BH doesn't suck as bad as most people believe. BH gets beat sure... but OWNED he does not.

[ROC]

Originally posted by LightningStorm


Oh, I'm not saying BH is godly... I'm just saying that BH doesn't suck as bad as most people believe. BH gets beat sure... but OWNED he does not.

I'm sorry LS, he does get owned by anyone with a good ground dash/air dash.

BH does Inferno xx Demons super.
(On Ground) Player does push block, Jump U/F
(In Air) Player does push block, air dash forward.

BH does throwing sj.RH/FP
(On Ground) Player does wave dash into cross up or whatever.
(In Air) I don't know, AAA’ll probably hit you if you air dash towards him.

The key to beating BH is staying on the ground and not forgetting to push block Inferno on the first hit then jumping out.

Trust me on this guys I live in a Former Black Heart Area.

EDIT: I'm not saying BH sucks its just that he's becoming more of an assist character like CapCom(I like CapCom on point with some of my fun teams)

[LightningStorm]

Originally posted by ROC

I'm sorry LS, he does get owned by anyone with a good ground dash/air dash.

BH does Inferno xx Demons super.
(On Ground) Player does push block, Jump U/F
(In Air) Player does push block, air dash forward.

BH does throwing sj.RH/FP
(On Ground) Player does wave dash into cross up or whatever.
(In Air) I don't know, AAA’ll probably hit you if you air dash towards him.

The key to beating BH is staying on the ground and not forgetting to push block Inferno on the first hit then jumping out.

Trust me on this guys I live in a Former Black Heart Area.

EDIT: I'm not saying BH sucks its just that he's becoming more of an assist character like CapCom(I like CapCom on point with some of my fun teams)

I've already covered this... read back a bit.

BH w/ assist does not get owned, if the BH player knows how to use BH.

[Dasrik]

Originally posted by ROC
BH does Inferno xx Demons super.
(On Ground) Player does push block, Jump U/F
(In Air) Player does push block, air dash forward.I almost never do Inferno XX HOD, so this doesn't matter. And if I do, I try to only do it when they're close to the ground, so they can't escape unless they're Jesus.

BH does throwing sj.RH/FP
(On Ground) Player does wave dash into cross up or whatever.
(In Air) I don't know, AAA’ll probably hit you if you air dash towards him.I thought you said superjump. Oh, well. I try not to ever do sj.RH either unless I think they're going to stay in the same place. And who does vs. BH?

The key to beating BH is staying on the ground and not forgetting to push block Inferno on the first hit then jumping out.Okay. So what do you do when a BH player gets all over you with his dominating normals and an assist like Sentinel or Doom?

The answer is you probably sit there and wait for an opportunity to hit with AAA, which will fuck BH up.

Trust me... BH is not good, but not for the reasons you say. The only reason I ever win with him is on the basis of familiarity alone.

[BrazilionBH]

I have the best BH player ever.Nojoke.

[BrazilionBH]

Ask me anything about him.

[LightningStorm]

Originally posted by BrazilionBH
I have the best BH player ever.Nojoke.

:eek: I need to play your BH someday.... :evil:

[ironflip]

i use bh/im/cyce. anyone hab any good strats for this team. wat i do is wen i get a demon out i try to get to the other side of the person. they're usually blocking wrong and the try to get then in the infiinte with bh

[J.Lo]

Originally posted by BrazilionBH
I have the best BH player ever.Nojoke.

it's true! but sometimes he tries to play BH like magneto and loses =( jeff need to stop attacking and learn how to play RunAwayRunAway Revolution.

[J.Lo]

Originally posted by ironflip
i use bh/im/cyce. anyone hab any good strats for this team. wat i do is wen i get a demon out i try to get to the other side of the person. they're usually blocking wrong and the try to get then in the infiinte with bh

wait for BH infinite, tag-in, IM infinite, snapback or proton cannon, then guardbreak. you can get perfects with this team if you get the first hit. just learn how to connect PC and how to guardbreak.

[BrazilionBH]

Originally posted by ironflip
i use bh/im/cyce. anyone hab any good strats for this team. wat i do is wen i get a demon out i try to get to the other side of the person. they're usually blocking wrong and the try to get then in the infiinte with bh Yeh old team red eyes.I used to play that team.It gets owned by cable for free but its fun.Yeah just do a couple reps of the Bh infinite then tag to IM do the infinite to the corner then do a feirce to the team super and when it ends you can dash in and off the grounder them into a aircombo or whatever.

[BrazilionBH]

I beat sanfords sent with my BH before.But then he beat me in cvs2 a billion times.

[Dasrik]

Originally posted by BrazilionBH
I have the best BH player ever.Nojoke. Sorry, but no.

[BrazilionBH]

Originally posted by Dasrik
Sorry, but no. oh ok.

[BrazilionBH]

Originally posted by Dasrik
Sorry, but no. Man Im sorry I guess Im ot the best cause you sed so.I keep fogetting that mods now all.:( :( :(

[Dasrik]

Originally posted by BrazilionBH
Man Im sorry I guess Im ot the best cause you sed so.I keep fogetting that mods now all.:( :( :( Check!

[FecalPenance]

Originally posted by ironflip
i use bh/im/cyce. anyone hab any good strats for this team. wat i do is wen i get a demon out i try to get to the other side of the person. they're usually blocking wrong and the try to get then in the infiinte with bh

just land an infinite w/ bh then tag in ironman, but before you tag in make sure either the enemy is bouncing so high that you can start the infinite after missing, or walk close enough so that the tag in combos, because if he barely misses the enemy can recover... best way to setup bh infinite is w/ either ironman aaa crossup or land c.lk + cyke... another setup is to chip enemy to death near corner w/ qcb+pp super xxx proton, then guardbreak w/ ironman...

[wipeout2049]

Originally posted by Dasrik
Trust me... BH is not good, but not for the reasons you say. The only reason I ever win with him is on the basis of familiarity alone.

My brother's newbie friend told me that BH wasn't good either. I didn't believe him but now I see it for myself. He also said that Cable sucked and wolverine and rouge were the best characters. He also said that Roll was decent. Is BH really bad? Is he on par with Ryu?

[totalScrubPower]

Who does Blackheart own?

[LightningStorm]

Originally posted by totalScrubPower
Who does Blackheart own?

My personal opinion:

If he has a good assist and the other doesn't. He owns everyone except Storm, Cable, Sent - who can all beat him w/o assist. Other exceptions are Spiral and Mags but I think BH w/ assist will still beat them but it won't be an owning by any means.

BH one on one... NOBODY except Dan, Servbot, roll.... etc... ya know...those suck ass characters nobody plays anyway.

BH with assist and opponent also with assist... Owning wise... I'd have to say nobody again. But he has the ability to win against anybody.... except Storm and Sent. My girl Storm is the exception to EVERY rule! :evil:

[Dasrik]

Originally posted by wipeout2049
My brother's newbie friend told me that BH wasn't good either. I didn't believe him but now I see it for myself. He also said that Cable sucked and wolverine and rouge were the best characters. He also said that Roll was decent. Is BH really bad? Is he on par with Ryu? Some things:

* Your friend is a newbie. His opinions should be taken as such.
* Ryu doesn't suck.
* Roll is not decent.

[Dasrik]

On a less shit-talky note...

I finally figured out specifics of the BH inferno infinite (the one featured in the Scodolfy combo vid) and I have come to the conclusion that, for the most part, it's useless. We had the anatomy of the inferno all wrong. Inferno is basically two parts - the big pillar you see and a "compressed pillar" you don't see that fits into a space that is about the height you get when you jump. It's not a projectile like I previously thought, it's just a mini-pillar inside the pillar.

For the inferno infinite to work, the opponent has to be in a very specific place on the screen - where the main inferno will hit and the mini-inferno won't, but so that the mini-inferno sticks around long enough so they fall on it. To do the inferno infinite, you have to do the next inferno about immediately after the last one so they stay in that same part. So if you have good eyeballs and speed, you can keep it up, but it's pretty useless.

The SETUP, however, is not, and you can set up a double-hit Inferno fairly easily using Cyclops assist off a ground combo (time it so Inferno comes out about the same time as the final hit of Gene Splice). If you get the double hit Inferno, you have some options...

* walk up and Judgement Day (great on Cable)
* another Inferno into HOD (you have to walk too far too fast for Armageddon)
* the standard BH infinite
* aircombo
* tag (NICE!)

So while the infinite itself is useless, getting the setup isn't.

[BrazilionBH]

Charlie owns BH.

[FecalPenance]

Originally posted by Dasrik
We had the anatomy of the inferno all wrong. Inferno is basically two parts - the big pillar you see and a "compressed pillar" you don't see that fits into a space that is about the height you get when you jump. It's not a projectile like I previously thought, it's just a mini-pillar inside the pillar.

3PWood gets the credit for this "discovery" years ago on the clockw0rk.com forums.... he even made a shitty text diagram of the 2 pillars...

charlie doesn't own bh, but guile has a chance...

[wipeout2049]

Originally posted by Dasrik
Some things:

* Your friend is a newbie. His opinions should be taken as such.
* Ryu doesn't suck.
* Roll is not decent.

I don't think that Ryu sucks. I use him all the time. But you said that BH is not good so is he worse than Ryu? I don't believe what my brother's friend says. However, I thought that it might interest you guys to know that some one of a kind newbie doesn't like Cable.

[DeAdSpAcE]

Originally posted by wipeout2049


My brother's newbie friend told me that BH wasn't good either. I didn't believe him but now I see it for myself. He also said that Cable sucked and wolverine and rouge were the best characters. He also said that Roll was decent. Is BH really bad? Is he on par with Ryu?

Is this some kinda of a joke?

[ironflip]

huh. Ryu will get killed by bh. I don't even think he can get near him. Even if he wavedashes and bh just keeps jumping back and throwing demons. Bh owns ryu for sure. At least i think so.

[LightningStorm]

Originally posted by wipeout2049
I don't think that Ryu sucks. I use him all the time. But you said that BH is not good so is he worse than Ryu? I don't believe what my brother's friend says. However, I thought that it might interest you guys to know that some one of a kind newbie doesn't like Cable.

Dude... when he said BH sucks... he meant in comparison to the rest of the good characters... BH is at the bottom of the top. But Ryu.. is not even at the top of the bottom....

So.... Ryu = horrible.

Originally posted by FecalPenance
charlie doesn't own bh, but guile has a chance...

One on one... both of them beat BH.

[Big Rex?]

Originally posted by LightningStorm






One on one... both of them beat BH.

Cant Bh just jump away Fp demons all day? I can see charlie might have a chance with his air flash kick but i cant see guile or charlie getting close to bh one on one :confused: , unless im missing something

[BrazilionBH]

Originally posted by FecalPenance


3PWood gets the credit for this "discovery" years ago on the clockw0rk.com forums.... he even made a shitty text diagram of the 2 pillars...

charlie doesn't own bh, but guile has a chance... I was joking.

[FecalPenance]

thought you might have seen josh's sent/charlie/guile team rape a bh scrub and get silly ideas... isn't your main game cvs2?

when you dash with bh and hold forward he travels farther.... only useful for avoiding air based chip or crossing up the enemy when they sj... he can't cancel into anything (including block) like most characters...

if bh is your last character he can combo multiple hods using the team super method (assist1+assist2).... so if you get a lucky infinite and build hella meter its a stylish way to finish a fight....

[BrazilionBH]

Originally posted by FecalPenance
thought you might have seen josh's sent/charlie/guile team rape a bh scrub and get silly ideas... isn't your main game cvs2?

when you dash with bh and hold forward he travels farther.... only useful for avoiding air based chip or crossing up the enemy when they sj... he can't cancel into anything (including block) like most characters...

if bh is your last character he can combo multiple hods using the team super method (assist1+assist2).... so if you get a lucky infinite and build hella meter its a stylish way to finish a fight.... Yeah I stoped playin cvs2.and marvel.

[Dasrik]

Ground dash with drones is the bomdigi. I almost never get cornered anymore, LOL.

Anyway, I sold out and I'm Storm/Sent awhorin away, but I still use BH on team wattsanegger or BH/Storm/Sent. BH assist makes punishing assists easy.

[Augmint]

Originally posted by YogaInferno
Actually BH has 3 Ininfiites, The Demon Bounce and he has one where he jumps airdash lk lk land then demons and does it all over again. Must be in the corner. I dont remember the site i got them from, but i have them stored in "My Folders"


That infinite was originally on the warganic site, and the japanese hoops site(both dead).
Its up at www.mvc2heaven.tk/
3rd mpeg.