SBO Discussion: Foreign Teams get OCV'd.

[SuperSamyon]

First, if you haven't heard the results I suggest you read this: http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113211

Second, check out Starboy's aim conversation with Mopreme (who was a part of the EC team) http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113211&page=4 (message 88)

What do you think of all this? I for one am pretty shocked. I, like many others, believed that WC at least would make a serious dent. The fact that both our teams (EC and WC), all the European teams, and the rest of the foreign teams got OCV'd... is pretty shocking indeed.

What is even more surprising is that only Ricky Ortiz and Billy Kane won ONE round. So with all the foreign teams, we only managed to win a total of 2 rounds.

Finally, the American teams got put down by two players that I really don't know much of. In fact, (correct me if I am wrong) their teams didn't make top 4 or even final 8.

Your thoughts on this? Are we just doomed to be outclassed by the Japanese at 3rd Strike?

Alex Valle did say that this was to be expected (since it is their hometurf) but the results will be different at EVO. Do you agree that it was the hometurf that gave them such an advantage? Mopreme's comments may prove otherwise.

[DevilJin 01]

Yeah, some people might be used to playing on certain sticks. They might use a certain type of stick that the US players aren't accustomed to. A good bit of top players in the US are more accustomed to US Happ sticks than Japanese Sanwa/Seimitsu. Unless it was a console tournament.

[ParryAll]

Alex Valle did say that this was to be expected (since it is their hometurf) but the results will be different at EVO. Do you agree that it was the hometurf that gave them such an advantage? Mopreme's comments may prove otherwise.

Regardless of what they may say now, NOBODY expected this.

And no, hometurf doesn't matter. Every year Japan sends a handful of players to Evo and those handful of players secure the top spots of 3rd Strike. Why would this year be any different?

Why not just admit the US was outclassed? Saying shit like "We will get them at Evo" trying to sound all hard after a devistating defeat is just gay.

And BTW noone is hating on the EC or WC teams. I'm sick of people saying that. I still have mad respect. It's just that my respect for Japanese 3s has grown.

[XEN MASTER MARK]

I know the foreign teams weren't expected to do well against the Japanese, but damn, winning only 2 rounds is unbelievable. Amazing.

Will there be (free) footage of this tournament?

[Atb_555]

Will there be (free) footage of this tournament?

Lol, I dought it. But yeah the Japanese this year were just too good. I'll definately buy the DVD's. BTW does anyone know where can I get the previous DVDs? The only site I found was in Japanese.

[aznctguy00]

Japanese has always been better than us at 3rd strike. They even discover most of the things/tricks that most of us use today (KO finisher, 100% makoto stun, stuff like that).

Next year, I will have to bring my Pink Sean and OCV those Japanese people with my basketball.

[Eric J]

And BTW noone is hating on the EC or WC teams. I'm sick of people saying that. I still have mad respect. It's just that my respect for Japanese 3s has grown.

Amen to that. We had solid teams, no one expected it.

[Gaijinblaze]

Yeah, some people might be used to playing on certain sticks. They might use a certain type of stick that the US players aren't accustomed to. A good bit of top players in the US are more accustomed to US Happ sticks than Japanese Sanwa/Seimitsu. Unless it was a console tournament.
Huh? Pyro, Frankie, Ricky, and Justin have all been to SBO before so they have experience on those sticks. Mopreme even lived in Japan for a while as well. And KOfiend obviously can use those sticks well if he won one of the RI qualifer tournaments (using Japanese cabs). So the stick issue is a load of shit.

They were just outplayed. Maybe videos will be released of the US teams, which may give us an idea of what happened.

[Son of a Glitch]

I think the "stick" excuse is pretty weak myself but sure, if you are used to a specific type, switching automatically for high level play may have contributed somewhat. Overall, it's not a shame to lose to the Japs or anyone who is just "better" in fact.

It's no doubt that the U.S. players are amazing and can definitely hold it down in 3S but the truth is they just got outplayed. Mopreme said it himself. Obviously he's not making any excuses about it, which is quite respectable IMO.

I don't think EVO will be any different either unless the U.S. players review their overall playing and try to correct their mistakes. The two styles are just different and the Japs are just "better" overall. They plain just "know their shit" and I don't think the balance will shift any time soon.

[KneelB4Me]

Next year send Airic to SBO. 1 man team, problem solved.

[Gaijinblaze]

I don't think EVO will be any different either unless the U.S. players review their overall playing and try to correct their mistakes. The two styles are just different and the Japs are just "better" overall. They plain just "know their shit" and I don't think the balance will shift any time soon.
The balance can't shift at all. They have more good players, more characters are used to the full potential, more arcades, more tournaments, and they play the game more often. There's no way people in the US, or anywhere for that matter, can match and then exceed Japan in a game where sheer experience plays such an integral role in one's success. It's just the sad reality of this situation. I feel bad for the US teams because I think they're great players, but a non-Japanese team will never win 3S at SBO.

Oh and do you play at Orbit?

[Big War]

Single elim is tough. There is no chance to make adjustments. Thats as much of a reason as any.

[psychochronic]

Based from what I read, Keeper originally teamed with MOV and Knit but they couldn't qualify due to mass amount of losses so he was kicked off and they chose Spellmaster J. Glad he got to team up with Tokido.

[Ciddypoo]

I don't think EVO will be any different either unless the U.S. players review their overall playing and try to correct their mistakes. The two styles are just different and the Japs are just "better" overall. They plain just "know their shit" and I don't think the balance will shift any time soon.
You're only as good as your competition. The Japanese have the exposure, so with so many people at an extremely high level of play, they're all going to improve.

Compared to the US, at least, if we take Justin and Pyro in 3S, who are definitely two of the best players the US has to offer, if they continue beasting on everyone in the US unopposed (well, not unopposed, but taking tourneys and such), they hit the glass ceiling as far as the US is concerned. They just hit a point where they can no longer really improve, because no one is there to punish their errors every which way. Really, the US and Japan are both improving, it's just that Japan can continue to improve at a much faster rate due to the exposure/popularity of the game there. What we need is just more players stepping up their game, which eventually will happen given time, until they hit a point where they're on the same level of Justin/Pyro/etc. At that point, if everyone is pulling about even with each other, everyone is sure to learn something from the losses that they take in.

Plus, the Japanese have always had a head-start on the US in 3S anyway. There has always been more interest in it, and it has been played at a competitive level much longer than in the US. The relationship I'd say is similar to oldschool ST players vs. the newer school players. The extra experience that the Japanese have means they can always pull something outta their sleeve that we're probably not familiar with. Does that mean the US can't have great players? Not at all, but the Japanese I think will always have the advantage.

An advantage doesn't guarantee a win, though, so yeah.

But still, congrats to the SBO teams representing the US for getting out there and doing their best. Hopefully they learned/are learning a few things to step up their game and bring it back to the US so we can all improve.

[SrWilson3S]

US - Owned :rofl:

France bums - Owned :rofl: and by a Akuma player too haha wicked :D!

Japan are unstoppable !!

I saw some US peeps making excuses in the report thread about oh we can beat Japs we just gotta adapt to em .......... :rofl: You've had 6 years to try and your still no better :rofl:

[Yeah Dood 120%]

:confused: And... these are pros that I'm told I'm "supposed" to be playing like... dood?

[SuperSamyon]

:confused: And... these are pros that I'm told I'm "supposed" to be playing like... dood?

These guys could 20-0 any of us. But Japan would 20-0 any of us plus never lose a round LOL. Big difference.

Good...Better.

[Tsumuri]

These guys could 20-0 any of us. But Japan would 20-0 any of us plus never lose a round LOL. Big difference.

Good...Better.

That's the sort of talk that leads to defeats. Doubt in your game. Doubt in your abilities to perform in Third Strike.

[SuperSamyon]

That's the sort of talk that leads to defeats. Doubt in your game. Doubt in your abilities to perform in Third Strike.

Well I was being overly dramatic. I know that I could 20-0 Pyrolee any day of the week and if I had gone to SBO I would have single handily saved the USA team...:rofl:

[Tsumuri]

Well I was being overly dramatic. I know that I could 20-0 Pyrolee any day of the week and if I had gone to SBO I would have single handily saved the USA team...:rofl:

There we go! :tup:

[SrWilson3S]

I seriously doubt the euro bums or US peeps could 20 - 0 me as for Japan well lol diff story.

I could save the euro team single handedly too .......however I think personally it shoulda had better players in it that would be worth helping to save.... lol so I would not bother.

Waits for ramdom people to flame............SHIELDS UP.

Yea I'm bored.:lol:

[HarmoNaz]

My tuppence...

I think the UK and France teams were almost evenly matched in terms of skill. The US teams were much better. The best players on these boards can probably have close matches against the French and UK teams, but no chance against the US teams.

And yes, the Japs were much better than US, but that was to be expected. The fact that they got OCV'd was in my opinion just bad luck - a very long and bad spell of bad luck :sad:

[SrWilson3S]

My tuppence...

I think the UK and France teams were almost evenly matched in terms of skill. The US teams were much better. The best players on these boards can probably have close matches against the French and UK teams, but no chance against the US teams.

And yes, the Japs were much better than US, but that was to be expected. The fact that they got OCV'd was in my opinion just bad luck - a very long and bad spell of bad luck :sad:


Naz the US are not really that good at it to be honest, IMO.
I think theres only a few who are really good overall the rest are just ok - but to be fair I am just judging from all the past vids I have seen so my comment lies on them.

So no one flame, its just my opinion (And I am not afraid to say it!) I have seen more better play euro matches than US ones and thats over several years.

[Yeah Dood 120%]

These guys could 20-0 any of us. But Japan would 20-0 any of us plus never lose a round LOL. Big difference.

Good...Better.:rofl: I 120% doubt that. But oh well, :bluu: I guess they could use some wins now huh... dood?

[exodus]

blah blah blah bloo bloo blah blah!

[genocide]

Single elim is tough. There is no chance to make adjustments. Thats as much of a reason as any.

does that not work both ways tho?

[snakedizzle209]

I thought the US was catching up little. I still have alot faith in everyone who went to rep the US. Japan is crazy good. No doubt about that. I'm not surprised they won at all. but all the OCVs were really unexpected. They could have just had a bad day. It just so happens that they flew thousands of miles to have that bad day. Unlikely, but it's possible. I'm not gonna go on about all the reasons of what could've happened. It's just obvious that Japan is really really good.


Better luck next time. I hope this doesnt discourage all you guys so you can get your revenge next time.:karate:

[DH020]

R for RAPE!! hope theres gona be footage of this!

[SuperSamyon]

:rofl: I 120% doubt that. But oh well, :bluu: I guess they could use some wins now huh... dood?

lol, harsh harsh. For that I shall 20-0 you next time Yeah Dood! :) lol :rofl:

[SuperSamyon]

blah blah blah bloo bloo blah blah!

There you go Exodusy!!:lovin: You are learning big words! Can you say "mamma? mamma? Or Daddy? Or Whose my daddy?" Almost there!!!

[Yeah Dood 120%]

lol, harsh harsh. For that I shall 20-0 you next time Yeah Dood! :) lol :rofl::rofl: Maybe you should be on the team... dood.



:wink: It quite funny to me though, how peeps say I don't "play right" and I have to play a certain way to win yet the peeps that did "play right" got 120% owned which further makes me more comfortable with not "playing right"... dood.

[SuperSamyon]

:rofl: Maybe you should be on the team... dood.



:wink: It quite funny to me though, how peeps say I don't "play right" and I have to play a certain way to win yet the peeps that did "play right" got 120% owned which further makes me more comfortable with not "playing right"... dood.

Keep in mind that their game is pretty solid... its just that Japan's game is even more solid.

I think it has a lot to do with reaction time. Some of those guys just see at a higher framerate then us lol.

In my opinion, for Pyrolee to not even win a round says a lot. He has one of the most aggressive Yun's I've seen. And he had two matches to check out his opponent and figure out how he wanted to play him. He definately had the advantage going in. Its like our own Exodus getting his Yun completely shut down by another Yun. Just hard to fathom that. And I would venture a guess that if Exodus wanted to 10-0 any of us with his Yun he would have no real problem (sans xbox live funk). Its like being on another level and dominating your state, only to find out that there is another group on a higher level than you.

[exodus]

as usual, you guys are overanalyzing the situation. see my title underneath my name? don't fall into that category ;(

[Big War]

does that not work both ways tho?

From my experience, the super elite players are where they are b/c they adjust and really good players dont. Watch a Ranbat and watch how often Nuki gets WORKED in the opening round/opening match and then dominates. Watch him lose a match in a double elim toruney, play the same person later and not drop a round. There are play styles that are better for single elim tourneys. I think it is a big reason the US teams lost 1st round. I cant speak for the other foriegn players b/c I havent seen them play much.

[SuperSamyon]

as usual, you guys are overanalyzing the situation. see my title underneath my name? don't fall into that category ;(

Not overanalyzing, just talking. Finally something NEW to talk about in fighting game world LOL.

[Son of a Glitch]

Keep in mind that their game is pretty solid... its just that Japan's game is even more solid.
This is pretty much what it boils down to.

Oh and do you play at Orbit?
Oh, and yes I do!:lol: But unfortunately, not often enough though.:sad:

[HarmoNaz]

Exo - lets face it, when the vids do come out, if ANY of those OCV's are on there, ANYONE who watches it (specially us) will obviously analyse and over analyse. I'm just trying to figure out where the scrub factor comes in. Like if I watch A vs B and A rapes B in 9 seconds, would it be scrubby to say A is blatantly better just based on that one match?

[Darkside3024]

Exo - lets face it, when the vids do come out, if ANY of those OCV's are on there, ANYONE who watches it (specially us) will obviously analyse and over analyse. I'm just trying to figure out where the scrub factor comes in. Like if I watch A vs B and A rapes B in 9 seconds, would it be scrubby to say A is blatantly better just based on that one match?
You couldn't really say that with one match but when a whole team gets raped then it's obvious that there is a skill/preperation difference.

[mexicanryu]

we just need to send better players to SBO next year.

[Son of a Glitch]

we just need to send better players to SBO next year.
That probably WAS their best.....

[DH020]

You couldn't really say that with one match but when a whole team gets raped then it's obvious that there is a skill/preperation difference.

Ya thats pretty much true to elimate allmost every single player (only get 2 to get a round) shows their skill is on another level.

[snakedizzle209]

we just need to send better players to SBO next year.

Better than Pyrolee, Ricky Ortiz, Justin Wong and Frankie3s?:confused:

[SrWilson3S]

Better than Pyrolee, Ricky Ortiz, Justin Wong and Frankie3s?:confused:

Why is wong in there? LOL driest chun li EVER. :rofl:

The other 3 fair enough.

[ParryAll]

Why is wong in there? LOL driest chun li EVER. :rofl:

The other 3 fair enough.

Moron.

[SrWilson3S]

Moron.

WTF its just my opinion I never said he was bad just he is dry with chun li And I feel there are better US players but........oh yer I forget on srk you cannot have your say coz you get flamed.

[mexicanryu]

pyrolee frankie3s never placed top 8 at evo nuff said.

[snakedizzle209]

Why is wong in there? LOL driest chun li EVER. :rofl:

The other 3 fair enough.

Flashy no, Boring... very. But as boring as he is, he got second at last years Evo above all the japanese players besides Nuki. That says something even though it's hard to watch one of his matches without falling asleep. I dont know what it is that he has going for him, but it works.

[mexicanryu]

jwong got an easy bracket that's why...so easy to beat dudley with chun.

[snakedizzle209]

pyrolee frankie3s never placed top 8 at evo nuff said.

For one, Pyrolee doesnt play console. So he doesnt even enter Evo. Now this is arguable, but IMO Pyro is the best in the US hands down.

As for frankie3s I dont know about him, but from what I've seen from Japan footage (not a vid-scrub) he can hold his own in Japan.

They both have alot of experience in Japan so to say that they arent a perfect fit for SBO is just wrong on so many levels.

jwong got an easy bracket that's why...so easy to beat dudley with chun.

So fighting through the entire tournament, dominating the winners bracket and sending Nuki to losers is easy. Damn I bet Daigo must suck at 3s because he lost to a Yun at Evo2k4. We all know that Ken owns Yun on paper, right? Kokujin just plain sucks, he's no top player at all. I'm gonna go to Evo this year, pick Chun and hope to god I only fight horible dudleys like Kokujin or that shitty chun player ohnuki and I'll win for sure.:rolleyes:

Sorry, but theory fighter just aint my thing.:wink:

[mexicanryu]

ur dumb pyrolee was at evo when it was on arcade.

[snakedizzle209]

ur dumb pyrolee was at evo when it was on arcade.

Wtf does that have to do with anything?

[mexicanryu]

you are the one who said pyrolee never entered EVO. not saying jwong is a bad player but the reason he got #2 was because he got an easy bracket...another reason was because EVO 3s singles was on console...just look at the 5 on 5 vid and SBO results lol.

[SmoothCat]

Lmao random ass mexicans. Better start marching

[Gaijinblaze]

you are the one who said pyrolee never entered EVO. not saying jwong is a bad player but the reason he got #2 was because he got an easy bracket...another reason was because EVO 3s singles was on console...just look at the 5 on 5 vid and SBO results lol.
Come on, Justin beat Raoh (same character so no advantage there) and I'm sure quite a few other top players. Chun or not, he earned those wins fair and square. And the 5 on 5 was on console as well.

And when I say this I don't mean to put down Justin or anyone else, but I'm glad the US got beat down at SBO. It means 3S can go much further in North America than it has so far. Imagine if Justin's boring turtle style was the culmination of 3S skill; wouldn't that be depressing?

[Anticon27]

Lmao random ass mexicans. Better start marching

I'll March all over your Couch!! oooh :karate:

[V4MPIRO]

Lmao random ass mexicans. Better start marching


pretty damn low :arazz: :arazz: :arazz: