Alpha Anthology *Capcom for the motherfucking WIN*

[Demon Dash]

So they are hit boxs then? I've never once heard 3S get reffered to as having no hit boxs..... Except for now.

[evilmuffinmanX]

3S has hit circles?

did they change sodom unblockable? cant hit it! :(

[Mike_Z]

Trying to tone down the programmer-speak:
As far as I have heard, 3s uses a bitmask, which is like a black and white version of the picture of your sprite. You have one for hitting and they have one for being hit, it overlaps the two, and if any overlapping white areas touch then you got hit. However, people use the fact that it's not hitboxes to try to express that 3s is more accurate in terms of hit detection, which is false. It's all due to the quality of the collision data, and the problems are still due to the fact that it's 2D frames.
Quality: If you were to accurately cover a sprite with 1-pixel-big hitboxes, the quality would be equivalent to a bitmask (but a lot more data, yeah yeah). Hitboxes were used because they're easy to set up by hand, so you make bigger ones and approximate the sprite's shape because it's faster. Bitmasks are also easily tweaked - you can modify them by drawing in extra white pixels, so you could "color in" hitbox areas if you wanted to. The two are really equivalent representations of a character in the world of collision, it's just that big inaccurate hitboxes are easier to draw by hand, while pixel-accurate bitmasks are (nowadays) easily generated programmatically from each animation frame, then tweaked for little cleanups.
2D vs. 3D: In 2D games, your collision is either where it is on frame 1, or where it is on frame 2 - there's no in-between. You could create extra collision data for where the collision would be halfway between the frames, but again at some point it is finite frame-based data, and anyway that is a lot of extra work. This means there is no notion of movement between the frames - either you hit ON a given frame, or you didn't. This is why you get the effects of say Makoto's EX Hayate vs. Chun's dash, where they go through each other. On frame 1 they were both right in front of each other, and on frame 2 they have passed each other already. There is nothing in-between. Or Wolverine's dash vs. Zangief's Green Glove, or dashing through a Rocket Punch/Shockwave, etc. Even Zangief's c.Strong vs. some characters in A3, where he punches past the back of them.
If it were a 3D game with actual spatial information about what hits where (spheres, boxes, meshes, what-have-you), then you could do continuous hit detection (i.e. continually evaluate extruded collision shapes in the time between frames, don't worry if that was over your head) so you'd never miss through someone because they animate around your hit. Zangief's fist would start at his body, move through space until it was behind the other person, and at some point the other person would have gotten hit.
In fact, a lot of the reason that big inaccurate hitboxes were drawn to begin with is to overcome that problem: the big boxes overlap between frames, ensuring that hits will always hit if they should have. If they were really accurate, there would be little to no overlap, and it would be easier to miss with something that "should" have hit.

Um, thesis: Though 3s may not use hitboxes, it still has the same problems as hitboxes do. It's just a lot easier to generate pixel-accurate collision data for each animation frame, which eliminates sloppy, inaccurate hitboxes. Moves in 3s were still cleaned up and tweaked, of course.

That was a lot longer than I intended.
Mike Z

[Goldsplinter]

Trying to tone down the programmer-speak:
As far as I have heard, 3s uses a bitmask, which is like a black and white version of the picture of your sprite. You have one for hitting and they have one for being hit, it overlaps the two, and if any overlapping white areas touch then you got hit. However, people use the fact that it's not hitboxes to try to express that 3s is more accurate in terms of hit detection, which is false. It's all due to the quality of the collision data, and the problems are still due to the fact that it's 2D frames.
Quality: If you were to accurately cover a sprite with 1-pixel-big hitboxes, the quality would be equivalent to a bitmask (but a lot more data, yeah yeah). Hitboxes were used because they're easy to set up by hand, so you make bigger ones and approximate the sprite's shape because it's faster. Bitmasks are also easily tweaked - you can modify them by drawing in extra white pixels, so you could "color in" hitbox areas if you wanted to. The two are really equivalent representations of a character in the world of collision, it's just that big inaccurate hitboxes are easier to draw by hand, while pixel-accurate bitmasks are (nowadays) easily generated programmatically from each animation frame, then tweaked for little cleanups.
2D vs. 3D: In 2D games, your collision is either where it is on frame 1, or where it is on frame 2 - there's no in-between. You could create extra collision data for where the collision would be halfway between the frames, but again at some point it is finite frame-based data, and anyway that is a lot of extra work. This means there is no notion of movement between the frames - either you hit ON a given frame, or you didn't. This is why you get the effects of say Makoto's EX Hayate vs. Chun's dash, where they go through each other. On frame 1 they were both right in front of each other, and on frame 2 they have passed each other already. There is nothing in-between. Or Wolverine's dash vs. Zangief's Green Glove, or dashing through a Rocket Punch/Shockwave, etc. Even Zangief's c.Strong vs. some characters in A3, where he punches past the back of them.
If it were a 3D game with actual spatial information about what hits where (spheres, boxes, meshes, what-have-you), then you could do continuous hit detection (i.e. continually evaluate extruded collision shapes in the time between frames, don't worry if that was over your head) so you'd never miss through someone because they animate around your hit. Zangief's fist would start at his body, move through space until it was behind the other person, and at some point the other person would have gotten hit.
In fact, a lot of the reason that big inaccurate hitboxes were drawn to begin with is to overcome that problem: the big boxes overlap between frames, ensuring that hits will always hit if they should have. If they were really accurate, there would be little to no overlap, and it would be easier to miss with something that "should" have hit.

Um, thesis: Though 3s may not use hitboxes, it still has the same problems as hitboxes do. It's just a lot easier to generate pixel-accurate collision data for each animation frame, which eliminates sloppy, inaccurate hitboxes. Moves in 3s were still cleaned up and tweaked, of course.

That was a lot longer than I intended.
Mike Z
O.O :confused:

How can you use this information to your advantage?

[epsilon_]

in in the alpha anthology everything is DEFAULT set to the newest version, to select the version with the redizzies and unblockable sodom hk, you need to select game options with either r1 or r2(i forget) and pick one of the earlier 2 versions.

[Demon Dash]

Snip
Thanks for clearing that up, good read.

Goldsplinter, I don't think you could, it's just logic.

[Best Kind Boxer]

> Maybe you can do c.fierce x s.rh x c.fierce x s.rh kara'd into drive-by?

I doubt it. A2 Gen (not A3 Gen) had the ability to perform reverse hunter chains as well as hunter chains. .

Ahh.. my bad.

Someone figure out how CCs work. ..and why it's harder to juggle in the corner with them in HSFA.

[NKI]

Not that I'm normally bold enough to correct anything with NKI's name on it, particularly regarding ST, but the translation for the pic felineki posted is a bit wrong.

It's much more likely eight points of damage and not 8%...I don't think characters have 100 points of damage for their health (more likely something closer to 143/144 points from MvC2 and SFA3 and other games (I assume). So I'm guessing eight points and eight percent would be different amounts, as in later games.Actually, The Yoga Book Hyper clearly states that the life bar is 100 points.

Other minor nag would be that it should be light/medium/heavy instead of Jab/Strong/Fierce, as the latter group refers specifically to punches.My bad.

The two untranslated boxes are the state the move puts you in after being hit by it (each of the three hits will knock you down, in this case), and the box next to it is how it can be blocked (crouching or standing).I didn't bother translating that (or any of the other stuff, like the name of the move, the command for the move, etc) because it's common knowledge, and I was pressed for space as it was. I just wanted to get the really important stuff down.

[TS]

:pray:

Understood, understood.

[fatboy]

That was a lot longer than I intended.
Mike Z

But totally cool! Never new that. Thanks!:wgrin:

[Demon Dash]

Ahh.. my bad.

Someone figure out how CCs work. ..and why it's harder to juggle in the corner with them in HSFA.
Only thing I can think of is Alpha 3's wall juggle limit exists for all modes. If it isn't a problem in AA's actual Alpha 2 then there's nothing much else it could be.

[Ultima]

re: 3S hitboxes

Yeah. Capcom made a big deal out of it's "analog" hit detection for the game. To summarize what Mike-Z said, instead of big rectangles representing where a character can hit and can be hit, it's really just a (not 100% accurate) bitmask of the character. The character's "vulnerable box" is now the character itself, and the "hit box" is whatever limb is performing the attack.

Furthermore, because of this, EVERY part of a character is vulnerable at all times. There are no attacks other than supers and Makoto's headbutt recovery animation that has frames of invincibility. This is why you see so many more hit trades in 3S than any other SF game.

[Desk]

re: 3S hitboxes

Yeah. Capcom made a big deal out of it's "analog" hit detection for the game. To summarize what Mike-Z said, instead of big rectangles representing where a character can hit and can be hit, it's really just a (not 100% accurate) bitmask of the character. The character's "vulnerable box" is now the character itself, and the "hit box" is whatever limb is performing the attack.

Furthermore, because of this, EVERY part of a character is vulnerable at all times. There are no attacks other than supers and Makoto's headbutt recovery animation that has frames of invincibility. This is why you see so many more hit trades in 3S than any other SF game.

well most throws are invincible too.

interesting to know about the hit box thing though, I never knew that.

[Xenozip.]

Furthermore, because of this, EVERY part of a character is vulnerable at all times. There are no attacks other than supers and Makoto's headbutt recovery animation that has frames of invincibility. Wait, I find that hard to believe.

First, you must also mean supers and EX moves, because I know for a fact that there are a lot of EX moves that have frames of (full) invulnerability.

Second, it must be a partial/modified bitmask. How do things like Dudley's "Ducking" move and Ibuki's dt.MK "slide" move go under so much stuff (like "through" fireballs") if their whole body is vulnerable. And then there's anti-airs like Ibuki's c.HP, and Chun's standing HP, and Yun's toward+HP that are so good because it seems like their upper body has no hit box. Plus things like Ryu/Akuma far standing MK and Chun back+HP just seem to have really huge forward hitboxes, while their hit areas seem to be their "body" and not their limbs.

I'm not saying you're wrong. But looking back at some of the crap I've seen from Elena, it's really hard to believe.

[Mike_Z]

- Since each frame of the mask is a full "picture" that's editable, one can draw extra parts in (Chun B+Fierce, Makoto DP), or remove parts from a "vulnerable" mask. So you can make a move only vulnerable very low, or whatnot. That's why I said they were equivalent to many many hitboxes, since you can modify both to your liking.
- Additionally, generally in games I've seen frames can be tagged fully invincible or projectile invincible as a property, without messing with the actual frame itself, so they can surely do that much for any frame. As well, since moves in 3s are probably tagged as hitting high/mid/low for parry properties (see Hyper Alpha for why they'd have to do that) you can probably tag a frame "invincible high" in 3s. Of course, this is speculation, but it seems reasonable. There's no reason to only apply this to supers...
Moves probably trade more because with hitboxes, generally they seemed to make the hit part bigger than the vulnerable part. With 3s, they seemed to generally favor making them even, or both appear at the same part of the move, instead.

This isn't a 3s thread though. :^)
Mike Z

[Xenozip.]

-snip-
Mike Z Yeah, I jumped from post to post. I was almost sure that they were modified bitmasks. Couldn't be a strait-up bitmask or Elena wouldn't be so retarded.

As for invincible frames, I'll just throw out Ibuki's dp+K (Kazekiri) for referance. The EX verison has 5 frames of full invincibility on start-up and 1 frame of partial upper-body invincibility, and can't be thrown. The normal (non-EX) version can be ground thrown (which means it is vulnerable to throws), but still has some frames of upper-body invincibility, and can be hit before the hitframes occur.

And yeah I can respect that, this isn't 3S. Let's talk about JUNI.

[goodm0urning]

This isn't a 3s thread though. :^)
Mike ZOh, who gives a rat's ass? This is good stuff. It's discussions like this that the SRK forum thrives on.

[AKUMA2000]

Just got the game and strat guide, OMG capcom surely pulled a raging demon on all of us......this game rocks. :tup:

Going back to playing, i'll be playing until next week. :rock: :nunchuck:

Good job capcom.:clap:

[Daidoji Kage]

And yeah I can respect that, this isn't 3S. Let's talk about JUNI.

Indeed, Mindless slave girls with big booty are always worth a conversation. :wgrin:

[Ansatsuken-TKD]

Indeed, Mindless slave girls with big booty are always worth a conversation. :wgrin:


Yeah... It's kinda sad that there being used like that in all those music videos. :tdown:

[Mike_Z]

A2/A2G characters can do very-low-in-the-air CC command grabs in HSFZ, but not in A2/G. They aren't OTGs, but to test I did c.RH xx SPD in HSFZ and A2. It worked in Hyper, against A2/G characters (and A1/A3 also). So you can end the antiair or Valle ones with a command grab now.
I don't remember what the best CCs for Zangief and Birdie were, so I'm sure you can do better, but:
Zangief Lv1 - c.RH->s.Fierce->Jab glove, 360+RH does more than Lv1 FAB.
Birdie Lv3 - c.RH, [(C)B,F+Fierce]x5, 360+RH (or Fierce, same damage) does 82 or so against Ken.
I didn't try Sodom because I didn't remember he existed in A2 until just now. :^)

It's like I always wanted - ground-to-air throws!
Mike Z

[Best Kind Boxer]

^ That's awesome!

Also, in case anyone hasn't noticed, you can move the dummy with your right analog stick on your pad. If you wann get them our of the corner or something. :P

[Rik]

Has anyone else also noticed how sometimes when u play in vs the match will end only after a single round. Like its happen to me and my friends copy a couple of times. We would be playing the standard 2 out of 3 rounds and then suddenly after the first round it ends and goes to the score screen......maybe its just my copy but anyways just worth mentionoing.

[CaliLifeStyle]

Has anyone else also noticed how sometimes when u play in vs the match will end only after a single round. Like its happen to me and my friends copy a couple of times. We would be playing the standard 2 out of 3 rounds and then suddenly after the first round it ends and goes to the score screen......maybe its just my copy but anyways just worth mentionoing.

That happens when you pick MAZI mode.

[Ansatsuken-TKD]

OH MY GOSH!!!!!! IN ALPHA 3 I FINALLY DID THE SHIN SHORYUKEN IN ARCADE MODE AGAINST BIRDIE!!!!!!!!!!!

Well... I guess that'll happen once every eight years. :-(

Oh yeah... Is it just me or is SFA 3 just a really easy game to play? I played through the entire game without losing one match on level 8, but on SFA2G the game is a dern beast on level 6!!!! It was so bad that I frequently had to continue by time I got to the third character!!! What's up with that???

[AHVB]

Xbox :sad: :sad: .


This is useless without online play.

[Ultima]

Ansatsuken:

I think it depends on who youre playing with. I have always found A3 to be much harder than A2, because the A3 CPU cheats more. Lots more input reading and oh-so-perfect counters and aerial counters.

A2'S CPU, on the other hand, gets a huge damage handicap on higher difficulty levels. Last I checked, on Level 8, a L1 super does about 50% damage. It's not really "harder", you just can't get hit from ANYTHING.

EDIT:

Typo. A3 CPU cheats more, not A2.

[goodm0urning]

OH MY GOSH!!!!!! IN ALPHA 3 I FINALLY DID THE SHIN SHORYUKEN IN ARCADE MODE AGAINST BIRDIE!!!!!!!!!!!

Well... I guess that'll happen once every eight years. :-(I've gotten this move to work maybe three times in my life. Fucking worthless shit. Why did they even bother putting it in the game?

[Ansatsuken-TKD]

I've gotten this move to work maybe three times in my life. Fucking worthless shit. Why did they even bother putting it in the game?

Well I guess because it looks really cool. Maybe the developers thought that we would get bored with the move... So they hid it in the Metsu Shoryuken so that we wouldn't see it often in game play!!! But once every eight years??? Crazy Capcom...

And Ultima... I've noticed that damage handicap that you're talking about. Dern thing's so unfair... By the way - I mainly use Ryu in both of those games. Why would Capcom put the handicap for the CPU so high? It doAnsatsuken:

I think it depends on who youre playing with. I have always found A3 to be much harder than A2, because the A2 CPU cheats more. Lots more input reading and oh-so-perfect counters and aerial counters.

A2'S CPU, on the other hand, gets a huge damage handicap on higher difficulty levels. Last I checked, on Level 8, a L1 super does about 50% damage. It's not really "harder", you just can't get hit from ANYTHING.

So is there a way to put the damage on normal settings for the CPU?

[Xenozip.]

Xbox :sad: :sad: .


This is useless without online play.
Maybe it's useless to you, sucks for you, but it sure as hell is getting put to good use here. It'd be fucking useless to me if it hadn't been ported to the PS2.

[The Legend2]

are there no ism plus?

Hyper is fun and all, but I've had more fun on PSP, and GBA with the ism plus's. Not to mention the newer characters.

[felineki]

are there no ism plus?

Hyper is fun and all, but I've had more fun on PSP, and GBA with the ism plus's. Not to mention the newer characters.No, not that I know of. That was usually associated with the World Tour mode, isn't it? World Tour isn't in this release.

[The Legend2]

Yes, on PSP, and others it's world tour,

in GBA, it's a button code, it gets you ism plus's in the option mode. it's universal settings for all chars. So if you set "alpha cancel: on" all characters would get chains.

[Best Kind Boxer]

We're already having discussions about broken-ness. we don't need world tour home-made -isms. No one would take it seriously.

[cent208]

OH MY GOSH!!!!!! IN ALPHA 3 I FINALLY DID THE SHIN SHORYUKEN IN ARCADE MODE AGAINST BIRDIE!!!!!!!!!!!

Well... I guess that'll happen once every eight years. :-(

Oh yeah... Is it just me or is SFA 3 just a really easy game to play? I played through the entire game without losing one match on level 8, but on SFA2G the game is a dern beast on level 6!!!! It was so bad that I frequently had to continue by time I got to the third character!!! What's up with that???

I never heard of this move, how do you do it? What exactly is this move?

Thanks.

[Ansatsuken-TKD]

I never heard of this move, how do you do it? What exactly is this move?

Thanks.

With A-ism Ryu - press :qcf: :d: :df: :k: when his super meter is charged at level 3. Make sure that when you do the move that you hit your opponent with the tip of Ryu's elbow, and then the Metsu Shoryuken will change into the Shin Shoryuken. Very awesome move. Also very difficult to do.

[cent208]

With A-ism Ryu - press :qcf: :d: :df: :k: when his super meter is charged at level 3. Make sure that when you do the move that you hit your opponent with the tip of Ryu's elbow, and then the Metsu Shoryuken will change into the Shin Shoryuken. Very awesome move. Also very difficult to do.

Thanks for the info. I have done that super a thousand times but I was got such little damage, now I know why.

[Daidoji Kage]

Opinions on Marvel-ism Evil Ryu?

His fireball gives him an impressive solid trapping game giving you latitude to create deadly cross-up opportunities with mk. What do you think, is his air fireball part of a solid game making him a decent character, or is he crossing the line of broken-ness. (I know it's not easy to say if he'll be banned yet, I'm just wondering about opinions on the matter)

At any rate, tech-flipping back and covering your ass with the air fireball is some dope shit. :)

[dialupsucky]

Other random things I noticed when I played, ken/ryus shoryuken dont seem to hit as many times as there suppose to on block as they did in CE. Also ce characters seem to be able to do that blue gaurd red priorty retarded whatever the fuck it is in a3. However strangely enough when the gaurd thing happend it was... red..... Ill assume bug or something...

[Best Kind Boxer]

I think all A3 (and their secret modes) can do damage reduction and blue blocking. Not positive though.

Juggle SPD during CC (http://youtube.com/watch?v=7Fb6HD4zyOI)

[cent208]

I was just wondering if anybody had trouble beating alpha 1 and alpha 2 dramatic battle. my friend and I are both very good but we were getting killed especially in alpha 1. its difficult b/c we share the same life meter in alpha 1 and 2 and the computer does very damage and takes very little damage. the cpu is set to a high difficulty too.

[LacanZZ]

I just got the game today and I know what you mean in that mode, I try to keep the CPU opponent away from the other character/friend that is helping you. My idea would maybe be have someone be defense while the other could be offense.

But since I'm only playing the game by myself today I try to keep the cpu friendly fighter away from the enemy cpu fighter.

I thought dramatic mode was going to be ultra easy and unfair to be opponents but I was wrong its actually more like a handicap to me.

[Vic Viper]

Ultima and I think someone else mentioned that CE Ryu and Ken can't cancel specials from Close S.Forward. Well I figured out why. And I don't know if someone mentioned this but I was playing with both SF2 CE on Final Burn Alpha and HSF2 and Ryu and Ken still can't do this.

It was on SF2 Turbo that Ryu and Ken get this cancel. Unless the SNES version on CE mode, Ryu and Ken can do this.

[Best Kind Boxer]

Little A2 vs HSFA CC comparison. The first CC doesn't work in HSFA, because you get pushed out.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=VDw6Wkfx4L4

[NiteWalker]

I was just wondering if anybody had trouble beating alpha 1 and alpha 2 dramatic battle. my friend and I are both very good but we were getting killed especially in alpha 1. its difficult b/c we share the same life meter in alpha 1 and 2 and the computer does very damage and takes very little damage. the cpu is set to a high difficulty too.
The bosses are hella hard in alpha 1 and 2 dramatic battle. Try to make an opponent sandwich and spank em from both sides. Bison in alpha 1 DB-->MK-->Scissor Kick=75% of your life....:mad:

[dialupsucky]

hrmm I fired up alpha one again and yea level one super deffintly doesnt not combo how it does in this game. Getting a punch super after a bushin combo is ridiculously hard, to the point of I almost think theres a trick to even getting it period.

Though I was wrong about the knee bash throw to regular throw, guess thats been in since a1 as well. However ill be damned if I know how the fuck you do it in a1 consitently.

[Azagtoth]

So is there a way to put the damage on normal settings for the CPU?

Nope. Part of the "difficulty" of 8 just comes from the fact that the engine favors the CPU by nerfing your damage and increasing theirs, making it rather easy for the CPU to fuck you up with little effort; it's like this in almost every fighting game. Just play it on like 6 or 7 if you want to remove some of the scaling: the CPU fights at about the same level for 6 and up IIRC.

[cent208]

The bosses are hella hard in alpha 1 and 2 dramatic battle. Try to make an opponent sandwich and spank em from both sides. Bison in alpha 1 DB-->MK-->Scissor Kick=75% of your life....:mad:

My friend and I lost to Alpha 1 Akuma in literally 3 seconds. As soon as the round started, Akuma jumped, did a low forward that hit both of us and then two in oned into a level 3 super dragon punch. The clock said 96 when the round was over, it was probably the fastest win ever in SF history. Also, did anyone notice that you get an unlimited super meter alpha 2 dramatic battle?

[master akuma]

Best Kind Boxer: I don´t know if someone already covered this but the CC´s in HSFZ can work also in HSFZ like they do in A2 (well, kinda) you posted that "Custom Corner Whiff" stuff and after I watched your clip a couple days ago.. that was bothering me, this morning when I got off my bed I turned on my PS2 and:

I don´t know if someone already posted this but: I was playing around with HSFZ and I test that "Custom Corner Whiff" from Best Kind Boxer wich is like this: http://youtube.com/watch?v=DcB1T5_uaRo&search=Chun%20Li%20Hyper%20Street%20Fighter%20Alph a%20Anthology%20Custom

BUT the Costum Combo can work in the corner the deal is: in midle screen or any other area other than corners the CC´s work just like in A2 but in HSFZ if you try to apply Valle CC´s (ex: c.HK into several DP´s) only the first DP will connect without problems and the 2nd and 3rd DP´s will most likelly miss, so the trick is quite simple: all you need to do to aplly all the DP´s in corner is perform the DP´s FASTER, like: you turn CC´s on then connect c.HP into DP LP and right after you hit the opponent with your DP LP: perform other DP LP BEFORE your character land his feet in the ground, and in order to connect the 3rd DP do the same system and perform the move while you character is on air with his DP LP.

So the deal to connect all the moves and don´t Whiff is: in the corner in order to the CC combos work and do not Whiff DP´s all you need to do is perform the DP´s faster (while your character is still on the DP ANIMATION)

sorry if someone allready posted this, if not: then this could be something usefull.

[Best Kind Boxer]

Thanks for the input.

I find that you can juggle on the way up during their reel arc, when they start coming down... but it gets real finnicky after that. Once they drop past you shoulder, it gets shitty. I dunno.

Doing them faster makes you hit them higher? Maybe it's that? Maybe it's cancelling quickly into the next move a la A3?

EDIT: and to whoever was worried about Red-E.Ryu, I don't think you have much to worry about. The air fireball seems pretty lame IMO. The fact that he floats in the air during it really kills it. You can't combo afterwards, and are even left open to supers sometime when it connects. A nice addition, but he's probably better off in another -ism.

[master akuma]

Doing them faster makes you hit them higher? Maybe it's that?


It´s exactly that! :karate:
For some reason in HSFZ the CC´s work just as good as in A2 but when you perform them in the corner (for example jungle with several DP´s) you cannot hit your oppnent if after the first DP your oppnent reach at your head, so this is why that in order to make the CC´s work in the corner you must him them HIGHER, this is why you must perform the moves faster (example: perform them while the character is on the DP animation)

[Demon Dash]

^I think there'd probably be more to it than that. I'm not sure height would make such a difference to cause an iregularity like that, I know recovery gets effected by height but... Juggling? Neutral states would probably be a more promising explination, but who knows?

[TS]

I sorta wonder why Capcom didn't include HF characters instead of CE...would have solved the Bison infinite, and probably some other things that haven't even shown up yet...

Anyway, assuming HFZ is using A3 juggle rules, this would be the deal with A2 CCs:

You can't allow what's called a "neutral state" in A3 lingo. This is a period where you're not doing anything. In A3, this is when an opponent can do an air recovery. Even when air recovery isn't available (A3 VCs vs CE/A1/A2 characters, for example), this juggle rule is still active.

So, for example, repeated DPs will stop working unless you cancel into another DP as soon as you land, because you're allowing a neutral state. But [Jab DP xx whiff sweep] over and over would probably work. As a matter of fact, just doing DPs over and over should work, but you need to tighten the timing.

Some moves have built-in neutral states, however. So like, hurricane kicks with shotos can't be done over and over, assuming they have the same neutral state properties as they do with A3 VCs.

Midscreen would allow for more stuff, since the corner juggle rule doesn't aplly the same way.

Most A2 CCs should work, but will require tighter timing or whiffed moves here and there. However, if you spazz out and accidentally whiff a jab or something, it could really cost you, unlike in A2.

Capcom does another good thing, probably completely by accident...making A2 CCs require more strict timing....

[Toodles]

Edited for stupidity.

[Demon Dash]

Maybe its been a while since I last read jchensor's system/combo guide, but I'm pretty sure trying to whiff normals in a VC is a bad idea. Normals have to connect (hit or block) in order to be cancelled. Specials just have to be in recovery frames (hit, block, or whiff) in order to be cancelled.
Are you talking about A2 CCs or A3 VCs? Because in V-Ism it's the complete oposite of what you said.

[Toodles]

Are you talking about A2 CCs or A3 VCs? Because in V-Ism it's the complete oposite of what you said.
Just rechecked jchensor's guide, and you're right. Post edited.

On a side note, something I keep seeing: Standard Alpha 3 game, Arcade mode, against CPU R. Mika, with my V-Akuma or V-Sak, it feels that when I get knocked down, I stay on the ground for a LONG ass time compared to fighting everyone else. Is this normal? Does this happen on the arcade version?

[DragonSama]

i need some help here SRK. i have a match coming up with a boastful scrub in Alpha 3.

Why is he a scrub? When I was at work at job number 2 everyone was taking about how good this guy was a Street Fighter. So I asked what his game was. If he played super Turbo, CVS2, MVC2. He said he plays Alpha 3. Ok cool so far expect when this scrub yells out "I'll Kill anyone with Shin Akuma" W..T..F.. So I say to him "well that is all fine and good but you know in tournament play he's always banned right?" He then gets cock and says "don't matter I'll beat anyone with him and if not him the Ryu or Chun-Li" At this point he says he's like to play me sometime in the near future (probably a couple of weeks).

So here's my question. Besides the obvious Scrub Red flags that went off (Shin Akuma, and I think he just got into Alpha with the re-release) what should I do against him and Shin A if he plays him?

I never really got into Alpha all that much when it came out. I played it some but nothing serious. I do play a lot of CVS2 and my main team is C groove Ken, Sagat , and Blanka R2. What kind of starts should I use. I was thinking of using Blanka mainly because He's my CVS2 Anchor but the fact that B,F,B,F + P is not Electric ball but Bowling ball. That alone is throwing me off. As far as I can tell Bowling ball is useless and very hard to set up. also the Standing HK is not a very good AA move in Alpha as it is in CVS2.

I also was thinking Sagat should be able to handle anything he throws at me. Standing HK is a goos AA as well as Tiger uppercut. I can throw high Tiger shots to keep him grounded for the most part and as a counter to the instant hell murder should he try it. (most scrubs try this move from all the way across the screen) the lack of roll is a bit frustrating though.

Is Ken a Viable option here at all? He has roll but you can't cancel it into anything else and the delay from it sucks. Also in a Ken Vs Shin Akuma Match I see it turning into him in the air fire-balling me to death or just another Shoto Scrub match with one Shoto being being broken.

If the best option is Chun I'm cool with that because I've played her before and she's pretty easy to pick back up again.

So help me put this Shin A Scrub (the worst kind IMHO) in his place with some killer Strats.

[Toodles]

Sagat's Vism combo is pretty easy (s.fierce xx whiffed tiger knee) and is overall stronger than the other two CvS2 characters you mentioned. You can also go into his crouch cancel infinite (different CC infinite on P1 versus P2, so read up on those) Against a scrub, I would say don't try to get into a fireball fight. You want to be up close since he likely can't reversal reliably, so beat him down with meaty's and tick throws. Figure out ways to handle his hurricane kicks in training mode. Turtle at the beginning of the round until you can score a knockdown, tiger knee to point blank range, then just rush his ass down with meaties, and after two or three when he starts to block, throw. Even with V-ism, it may be worth it to alpha counter him to gain control of the match. Bait out his RD (guaranteed he will try to RD as soon as he has the meter) so you can jump out of the way, and dragon punches; he will do them early, allowing you to airblock and punish. He will likely always flip out, so don't be afraid to just keep s.fierce'ing or b+fierce'ing when you counter hit him in the corner.

Scrub fights should be easy. Give him a chance to fuck up and be ready to punish it.

[Daidoji Kage]

Don't even try to do CvS shit in A3, it'll get you worked, even by a scrub. Blanka is pretty bad in A3, he's just too easy to punish in most instances.

I wouldn't suggest trying to learn v-ism in a short amount of time. You'll want to pick some of it up eventually, but trying to learn it in a rush is ultimately going to handicap you.

I'd say for ease of a quick win, pick Balrog (boxer) if he picks shoto. You've got two options then, A and X. A-ism is going to give you access to b,f,b,f+K at level 3 for devestating anti-air as well as l1 b,f,b,f+p, which has decent invincibility to it. X-ism prevents your opponent from ducking under your dashing straight.

If he picks Chun, go ahead and pick her too.

I'm coming from the perspective in all this that you're unfamiliar with A3, so like was said before, stick to the basics and punish scrub-ish mistakes.

oh, and if he insists on picking Shin-Akuma, do the same. ;)

[Sonic_Reaper]

shit u said

Blanka kinda ... well he doesn't suck in Alpha 3 but he's not very good either. Don't come in there expecting CvS2 Blanka. Not even the same game anymore. Oh, the "Bowling Ball" is almost strictly an anti-air super. It must be used against a clean jump. Perform the super and wait until the opponent hits you while you're spinning in place. After that, go forward and hit them when they bounce off of you. It's actually pretty easy to set-up once you get the hang of it. But in all honesty I don't recommend Blanka in Alpha 3.

Sagat's alright in Alpha 3. He gets beat out or even trades against high priority jumping attacks. So what you may think is perfect anti-air at the moment, may not be so against an opponent that knows this. I usually jump in with a light attack (shoto jp. lk for example will outright beat him) or go for the cross-up against Sagat.

Ken is good in Alpha 3 actually. He's just solid all around.

Also, if I am not mistaken Shin Akuma takes damage like a kitten; so it won't be an impossible match. His air fireballs are overrated.

For an Alpha 3 noob I recommend Chun (X or A isms).

Oh and if you guys actually end up playing Hyper Alpha; beat his sorry ass down with Alpha or Alpha 2 Ken. Besides CE Bison, he breaks the game :thumbsup

[evilmuffinmanX]

yeah A3 shin akuma isnt as bad as ST or CvS2 ver.


just use marvel mode shin bison. 1 frame full screen crusher FTW! :cool:

[FullMetalRoss]

Just rechecked jchensor's guide, and you're right. Post edited.

On a side note, something I keep seeing: Standard Alpha 3 game, Arcade mode, against CPU R. Mika, with my V-Akuma or V-Sak, it feels that when I get knocked down, I stay on the ground for a LONG ass time compared to fighting everyone else. Is this normal? Does this happen on the arcade version?


It's just the ass, the ass attack leaves you laying out for a long time, this allows for easy otg grabs in V-ism or just random shennanigans in other grooves, it takes sometime to get used to but it's not so bad. This counts even for the ass in the qcfx2 + P super.

[Rik]

Well after some good intense rounds yesterday, im very willing to alter my intial impressions of certain characters postion as far as tiers go. I suppose A2 Ken isnt that bad but still no comparison to his A1 counterpart, on the other end Sagat rocks in A2 and A1....u can seriously keep opponents at bay just by spamming mk and doing a random upercut every now and then. Shin Bison isnt to bad, hes good enough that he can destroy low tiers but at best hes probably a upper mid tier if used right. The only postive thing for him is that his super can literally change the outcome of a match heh. Parryism Gief isnt to bad either if u can 360 or even 720 off a parry like i was doing last night. On the other hand chun is really crappy in this game for some reason, i was getitng free wins off her almost the entire night.

[dialupsucky]

Heres a question(and I dont have the game to try it out)since it seemed a1 guy juggled easier for whatever reason. Do other A1 characters juggle easier then normal as well? Say in alpha 1 and 2 sagat had that combo to tiger knee then juggle with tiger uppercut stuff, maybe that stuff is brain dead easy now or something. Anyway yea someone should try some of the other more A1 A2 juggle type stuff if possible....

[Toodles]

Is there a way to turn on counter hits in training mode? I wanted to practice some non-VC crouch canceling, and Im not seeing how.

[CaliLifeStyle]

yeah A3 shin akuma isnt as bad as ST or CvS2 ver.


just use marvel mode shin bison. 1 frame full screen crusher FTW! :cool:

If you use shin bison he'll probably call foul. But he is using shin akuma.

Two scenarios I can see happening:

Air Fireballs countered by Super Psycho Crusher.
Shun Goku Satsu countered by Super Psycho Crusher.

[epsilon_]

Is there a way to turn on counter hits in training mode? I wanted to practice some non-VC crouch canceling, and Im not seeing how.
i dont think so, which sucks. i dont know why they didnt.

[Best Kind Boxer]

^ set dummy to "rec", jump straight up and do a shitty jumping attack. Then set the dummy to "play". There you go.

[Xenozip.]

^ set dummy to "rec", jump straight up and do a shitty jumping attack. Then set the dummy to "play". There you go.
On a side note, the dummy record/play functionality seems really shitty compared to the one they have for CvS2. The CvS2 training dummy will at least reverse inputs depending which side they are on.

[Best Kind Boxer]

On a side note, the dummy record/play functionality seems really shitty compared to the one they have for CvS2. The CvS2 training dummy will at least reverse inputs depending which side they are on.

Yeah, that's pretty lame. But at least it's not like 3rd Strike... where they perform the one attack and then stop. I like how it repeats.

Still, nothing beats GG record.

dialupsucky: give me some examples to test? I'm not familiar with A1-2 juggling.

[Best Kind Boxer]

I sorta wonder why Capcom didn't include HF characters instead of CE...would have solved the Bison infinite, and probably some other things that haven't even shown up yet...

Anyway, assuming HFZ is using A3 juggle rules, this would be the deal with A2 CCs:

You can't allow what's called a "neutral state" in A3 lingo. This is a period where you're not doing anything. In A3, this is when an opponent can do an air recovery. Even when air recovery isn't available (A3 VCs vs CE/A1/A2 characters, for example), this juggle rule is still active.

So, for example, repeated DPs will stop working unless you cancel into another DP as soon as you land, because you're allowing a neutral state. But [Jab DP xx whiff sweep] over and over would probably work. As a matter of fact, just doing DPs over and over should work, but you need to tighten the timing.

Some moves have built-in neutral states, however. So like, hurricane kicks with shotos can't be done over and over, assuming they have the same neutral state properties as they do with A3 VCs.


But when midscreen, this can't be the case. Since you can do sloppy DPs. You can even do a move, walk forward, do a move, walk forward, etc (http://youtube.com/watch?v=PQ5gq8hrUh4). If neutral states were involved, it seems that during CC you CAN'T reach a neutral state (a la Cody's final fight super). Hrm.. can you EVER air recover from a CC? This might be the true?

In either case, neutral states don't completely explain the whiffs in the corner.

If nuetral states held true throughout, Chuns post-CC lightning legs would be an infinite right? They do juggle for an almost obscene amount of time (unlike A2) but even so, they stop hitting after 16-17 hits. There must be a limiter of sorts. (maybe totally independant of the whiff thing as well?) (http://youtube.com/watch?v=VDw6Wkfx4L4)

CC's were definitely tweaked in HSFA.

[Mr Mort]

By whose decree is Anthology a port of the PS games?
I find it hard to believe to say the least.

<begin rant mode>

I just dont get some of you fucking people.

Someone new to the fighting game scene comes here to learn and asks questions, and you call them a "noob" and insult them straight off the boards.
Then you turn around and bitch that there's no new competition and that the scene is dying.

You bitch that game X is not in any tourneys, then you get a new console version of said game, and then chastise it for not being "arcade perfect". WTF does "arcade perfect" mean? It means many things to many people. Most of you gimps are not even good enough to take advantage of the miniscule differences during an actual match, yet you will fucking bitch about them incessantly. Every time a new console game comes out, there's an endless barrage about how it isn't "arcade perfect" and I for one, am fucking sick of it.

Some of you are so damn "elite" you find fault in every little thing and bitch like a little pussy about it. You point the finger at everyone but at yourselves, blaming a lack of "arcade perfect" ports from everything from your own sloppy performance to the slow death of the fighting game scene. Go on, keep thinking you're better than everyone else. Keep thinking you know more than everyone else. Keep thinking your console ports are not good enough to play on.

In the end, you're only hurting the "scene" you hold so dear.


Go ahead, flame me until you're blue in the face, but some of you are behaving exactly as I described, and you are the ones who find fault in everything, criticize everything to death, and bitch relentlessly. There comes a point when the miniscule differences are just that: miniscule. Take what you're given (as long as it's a "reasonable" conversion), and do the best with what is available. That is the mark of a true champion. Being able to shine given some constraints.

[Best Kind Boxer]

^ as a console player, i have to agree.

But WTF man, where did that come from??? They're not PS ports. We know this.

[Xenozip.]

-snip-
Using the dipswitches you can set it up to be arcade perfect.

You just went on a random hate tangent for nothing, man.

[evilmuffinmanX]

pwnd!!! :cool:


plz make a hyper alpha vid mr.xenozip! :pray:

[Gutcruncher]

today at work i was putting a stack of ps2 games on the shelf (as well as unfucking the ones that customers fucked up) and noticed a used copy of SFAA.

'hey tim, we already have this used?'
'yeah, the guy who traded it in said he liked the playstation ones more'
'...what'
'yeah i know'

[Ouroborus]

Using the dipswitches you can set it up to be arcade perfect.

You just went on a random hate tangent for nothing, man.

LOL, wtf is up with your avatar?:rofl:

[TS]

But when midscreen, this can't be the case. Since you can do sloppy DPs. You can even do a move, walk forward, do a move, walk forward, etc (http://youtube.com/watch?v=PQ5gq8hrUh4). If neutral states were involved, it seems that during CC you CAN'T reach a neutral state (a la Cody's final fight super). Hrm.. can you EVER air recover from a CC? This might be the true?

In either case, neutral states don't completely explain the whiffs in the corner.

If nuetral states held true throughout, Chuns post-CC lightning legs would be an infinite right? They do juggle for an almost obscene amount of time (unlike A2) but even so, they stop hitting after 16-17 hits. There must be a limiter of sorts. (maybe totally independant of the whiff thing as well?) (http://youtube.com/watch?v=VDw6Wkfx4L4)

CC's were definitely tweaked in HSFA.

The neutral state thing works the same midscreen in A3, but the juggle limiter only applies to the corner. You can juggle people over and over again with Akuma's hurricane kick or Sakura's DP, until you get to the corner...there are still neutral states, which is what allows them to recover out of it. The only difference is that from what I'm hearing, A2 CCs don't allow you to recover, but still seem to follow the A3 rules, otherwise (neutral states still exist- there's just nothing to be done about them).

Likewise, there are a few situations where someone is in a neutral state, but you're in some sort of hitstun, and still aren't able to recover- after getting hit with Guy's Final Fight chain's Roundhouse, Cody's Final Fight super, and probably a few more that I don't remember. A2 CCs seem to be the same thing, unless someone was wrong and you can actually recover out of them with A3/SF3/DS/S-ISM characters.

I don't have SFA Anthology and can't watch the YouTube vid right now, so I'm just guessing. Sounds consistent with the A3 juggle system, so far. Slapping A2 CCs into the A3 juggle engine may cause some odd issues, however, and it'll be intersting to see what develops.... However, Post-CC lighting legs with Chun wouldn't be an infinite because A2 Chun can't juggle like A3 Chun. Wouldn't be an infinite for the same reason that it wasn't one in A2. Though it's a bit interesting that they would hit for a longer period of time in HSFA.

[Ultima]

Ouroborus:

Xenozip's avatar has characters from Master of the Flying Guillotine, several of which may have been the inspiration for several SF characters (Dhalsim definitely).

[Best Kind Boxer]

However, Post-CC lighting legs with Chun wouldn't be an infinite because A2 Chun can't juggle like A3 Chun. Wouldn't be an infinite for the same reason that it wasn't one in A2.

..and this reason is? :P

I thought the only moves you couldn't flip from in A3 were moves that caused rollback when landing. CCs don't cause rollback, and you can easily juggle CE-A1-2/CE characters with them midscreen (you can't with A3 repeated hurricanes, etc) so I'm guessing CCs don't have any neutral states?

I don't know wtf is going on. Maybe it's a special CC-only rule for all I know.

[caliagent#3]

Blanka kinda ... well he doesn't suck in Alpha 3 but he's not very good either. Don't come in there expecting CvS2 Blanka. Not even the same game anymore. Oh, the "Bowling Ball" is almost strictly an anti-air super. It must be used against a clean jump. Perform the super and wait until the opponent hits you while you're spinning in place. After that, go forward and hit them when they bounce off of you. It's actually pretty easy to set-up once you get the hang of it. But in all honesty I don't recommend Blanka in Alpha 3.




suggesting blanka is a pretty bad idea. Especially since his experience is only in cvs2. Blanka plays nothing like he does in cvs, horrible priority, and counter hit bait. In fact, blanka is actually pretty bad. I'd recommend he play Juli before playing blanka

[Akutabi Gamma]

Hey there, just wanted to know a few things:
1- Other than Hyper SFA & the console version of SFA3, what other games can I unlock in the US version?
2- How does the color edit system work?
3- Can someone provide some SFA 1 combo vids?
4- Will the forums soon have an SFAA forum?

[Daidoji Kage]

suggesting blanka is a pretty bad idea. Especially since his experience is only in cvs2. Blanka plays nothing like he does in cvs, horrible priority, and counter hit bait. In fact, blanka is actually pretty bad. I'd recommend he play Juli before playing blanka

That's what I said.

[Pimp Willy]

What speed are people playing on? I find default to be way too slow, personally, so I've been playing on Turbo2.

[dialupsucky]

dialupsucky: give me some examples to test? I'm not familiar with A1-2 juggling.

Hrmm I cant think of any examples really, just maybe things are easier then they were in the orginal games....

I guess with a1 guy can you get bushin throw in the corner to hurricane kick? I dont remmeber that really working in a1. Super worked, but hurricane kick after bushin throw just didnt work cuz of the spaceing in the game I guess....

Also I remember a lot of juggles just refused to work on chun li. I dont even think you could bushin throw to punch super period on her... This is in the corner of course....


Also can alpha one guy cross up people in the corner with his bushin jump thing to elbow drop? You use to be able to in a1 vs a lot of characters if you hit punch as soon as possible from the fierce one. Others worked as well, but the fierce roll to punch as soon as possible usualy crossed up most characters in the corner.

[Saotome Kaneda]

Wiz and other admin have denied the SFAA forum motion ATM.

[felineki]

Hey there, just wanted to know a few things:
1- Other than Hyper SFA & the console version of SFA3, what other games can I unlock in the US version?
2- How does the color edit system work?
3- Can someone provide some SFA 1 combo vids?
4- Will the forums soon have an SFAA forum?
1. None, those are the only two. Japanese version had the US version of Alpha 2 and the console version of Alpha 2 Gold as unlockables, but because those are the NORMAL versions of the games for the US release (because our arcades had the US version of Alpha 2 obviously, and we never got an arcade release of Alpha 2 Gold, only the console version), they don't have unlockable counterparts.
2. Not sure on this one. Some sources say that the color you edit replaces the default color (white Ryu, red Ken, etc.). Others say that it depends on the color you edit from (that is, if you edit blue Ryu, then your new color replaces blue Ryu). I haven't played around enough with the color edit to determine which is correct.
3. Zero Koubou's Combo Videos at Combovideos.com (http://www.combovideos.com/list.php?c=SFAZK) Check out Movie 3 and Movie 6, they're both Alpha 1. If you like those and are also into Super Turbo, I also HIGHLY recommend their latest vid, which can be found at their website here. (http://page.freett.com/zerokoubou/movie.htm)
4. It would be nice. :)

[Sonic_Reaper]

suggesting blanka is a pretty bad idea. Especially since his experience is only in cvs2. Blanka plays nothing like he does in cvs, horrible priority, and counter hit bait. In fact, blanka is actually pretty bad. I'd recommend he play Juli before playing blanka

Learn to fucking read.

But in all honesty I don't recommend Blanka in Alpha 3.

[evilmuffinmanX]

Wiz and other admin have denied the SFAA forum motion ATM.

Conspiracy?!

Looks like SRK want SFA dead? no alpha forum=no training=no evo entry! After all selling out for Mario Kart and DOA4 at EVO why would they want another "ancient" low entry streetfighter game? The rich get richer?

[mr. newbie]

snip

that video was impossible. not able to be done!

[BEWD]

Conspiracy?!

Looks like SRK want SFA dead? no alpha forum=no training=no evo entry! After all selling out for Mario Kart and DOA4 at EVO why would they want another "ancient" low entry streetfighter game? The rich get richer?


You're still at it? I could've sworn those srkers made you kill yourself in that CFJ review thread. Oh well, I'm sure you can convince the admins if you use the BIG SMILE!!!!!!:rofl:

[MrWizard]

i want to make sure that it isnt a one month wonder before i designate a forum for it.

[DS]

Using the dipswitches you can set it up to be arcade perfect.

You just went on a random hate tangent for nothing, man.



What? How would I go about accessing dip switches in A3 in Anthology? Or is the game actually arcade perfect? I've been out of the loop. Just trying to find out a few things.

[abacabb]

What? How would I go about accessing dip switches in A3 in Anthology? Or is the game actually arcade perfect? I've been out of the loop. Just trying to find out a few things.
I think you hold R2 when selecting game options in the options screen.

[Best Kind Boxer]

Hrmm I cant think of any examples really, just maybe things are easier then they were in the orginal games....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4lV14y8l6Y

I only tested for a little bit but the only time I could juggle after bushin chain was when I left abosolutely NO gaps between the chain and the super (against Hawk). Every other time it would whiff. Is that normal? Is everything else normal? I have no idea. I'm playing with input lag too, so I don't wanna go try to get it "perfect", because it would take forever. :wgrin:

Hawk stuff (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-Bf56b_I-E)

[dialupsucky]

I deffintly dont remember duck foward, to punch super working in alpha one lol.... As a matter of fact only time I remember that working is CFJ off the top of my head...

Also normal throw to punch super? Lol I dont remmeber that working in A1 as well ethier.... If that was the case no one would have done knee bash to punch super then cuz that woulda taken to much effort im sure.

As for the chun li stuff I dont remember being able to do bushin throw stuff vs her at all really... So maybe thats only in this one as well... Also in a1(not A2 mind you ) I really dont recall you being able to get hurricane kicks after the bushin throw, you could only get supers that I remember.... Strange.... Maybe im not remembering right....


Only thing I can think of A1 the characters were "bigger" if that makes sence... Maybe the spirts being smaller now is makeing stuff work I dunno.


Oh back to duck foward to super working. WTF dude if that works does that mean you can also SLIDE to super then? Say something like chain combo to stand feirce, foward, duck fierce what have you then slide, to punch super??? lol that would be pretty bad ass.


Oh yea and watching that video reminds me, a1 guy does NOT have his cool angry voice from the orginal game... lol to bad.

[felineki]

That T-Hawk corner VC is awesome!

[Rik]

Even though we might not be able to create tier positions for this game yet, can someone at least post the tiers for the games at any rate...like A1,2 and 3 so we can at least know how that stands.

[Best Kind Boxer]

Oh. Umm.. That was HSFA. That's why he doesn't have the voice. They seem to always use A3 voices?

I went back and tried everything in plain old A1. Couldn't get anything to work. NOTHING. The only thing I could get was bushin grab into super, and ONLY if I left no gaps between the grab and the super.

..and crossup bushin leap>elbow is in A1, and not in HSFA.

So A1 guy is better in HSFA? *shrugs*

[dialupsucky]

Hrm can you try the slide(both)to punch super? Im sure you could get some pretty cool combo video type combos if you could get this... Also what about regular old air throw then punch super maybe that works as well?

Does the bushin grab, grab ducking characters like a1 as well to?

To bad about it not crossing up though... bummer.

[abacabb]

That T-Hawk corner VC is awesome!
True dat.

[Best Kind Boxer]

Can't get slide to work, because it only knocks down if close, and i can't recover in time if I do it close.

HSFA: airthrow into super works, so does air-to-air bushin leap>elbow into super. But I couldn't grab ducking characters with bushin grab. BTW: I could only get duck forward into super to work against sodom and not shotos/chun (maybe it works on others? i dunno)

SFA1: I can't get airthrow into super to work, but air-to-air bushin elbow into super DOES work. I could also (very easily) grab ducking characters with bushin grab.

SFA1 punch throw into super is weird. It's like I don't even get a chance to super because they land first. I don't think he throws them as high as in HSFA.. it's fairly easy in HSFA.

Also, the damage is SFA1 is nutty. Air-to-air bushin elbow does a pixel. Maybe two pixels. Yet lvl1 punch super does 50%???? Is that normal? lol

EDIT: A2 and A2G Guy can also do all the same stuff in HSFA. Is that normal?

[dialupsucky]

yea elbow drop didnt do much damage.

As for slide stuff, hrmm you use to be able to be kinda far away in A1 and you could still get it to knock down, cuz I remember certain combos like duck k, stand mp, stand hk, sweep acctualy knocked down even from that distance if you were close enough.

What about the command slide though? Can you punch super after that?

[Best Kind Boxer]

nope and nope. maybe it's possible, but I can't do it.

[dialupsucky]

A2 guy could do hurricane kicks and supers pretty easily after the bushin throw in the corner or near it. I cant comment on a2 gold guy cuz I dont remember enough about that game. Only thing I remember changing about guy in that was the throw super. I dont remember any juggles changeing, but its possible they could have cuz I dont remember enough of it.

Though no he couldnt normal throw into a super so if he can do that.. Thats... weird. I dont remmeber him being able to regular air throw to a super ethier. So if he can do that in this game then thats new to.

[dialupsucky]

I was thinking maybe the reason alpha one guy can get bushin combo vs thawk, and I was getting it when I played a little of the game is it possible that bushin combo to punch super works on all A3 "type" characters easily? Maybe they themselves are just allowed to be juggled easier...

[Ansatsuken-TKD]

For those of you who had trouble doing the final battle code in A3 (Upper) I've found the code at gamefaqs. I got it working just fine.


Final Battle mode in Street Fighter Alpha 3 (original and arrange)

To fight your end boss instantly (usually M.Bison) in Street Fighter Alpha 3, select arcade mode. Select any character and all additional options (such as Turbo and ISMS). Immediately after, press and hold Start, Light Punch, Medium Kick and Hard Punch until M.Bison appears on the vs. screen. You must be very quick into doing this or the code might not work. Convenient for people who lost to M.Bison in regular arcade mode and can't continue.

Contributed By: Isegrim

[Akutabi Gamma]

1. None, those are the only two. Japanese version had the US version of Alpha 2 and the console version of Alpha 2 Gold as unlockables, but because those are the NORMAL versions of the games for the US release (because our arcades had the US version of Alpha 2 obviously, and we never got an arcade release of Alpha 2 Gold, only the console version), they don't have unlockable counterparts.
Ah I see, but are their any differences between the Arcade & PSX version of A2G?

2. Not sure on this one. Some sources say that the color you edit replaces the default color (white Ryu, red Ken, etc.). Others say that it depends on the color you edit from (that is, if you edit blue Ryu, then your new color replaces blue Ryu). I haven't played around enough with the color edit to determine which is correct.
I actually messed with Zangief's PF sprite & it surprisingly became his default colour! I really need to figure out how to change that -_-;
3. Zero Koubou's Combo Videos at Combovideos.com (http://www.combovideos.com/list.php?c=SFAZK) Check out Movie 3 and Movie 6, they're both Alpha 1. If you like those and are also into Super Turbo, I also HIGHLY recommend their latest vid, which can be found at their website here. (http://page.freett.com/zerokoubou/movie.htm)
Awesome thanks a ton!
[quote]4. It would be nice. :)
I personally don't see why the mods are against it though....I mean it has about as many characters as MvC2 and we SRK has a forums for it....

[felineki]

Ah I see, but are their any differences between the Arcade & PSX version of A2G?PSX version had Cammy, that's the only difference I think.

[DS]

I think you hold R2 when selecting game options in the options screen.



Now what exactly would have to turn off and on to make the game arcade perfect?

[Kayin]

Now what exactly would have to turn off and on to make the game arcade perfect?
Set it to the earliest possible revision, it'll turn on all the right settings.

[abacabb]

Now what exactly would have to turn off and on to make the game arcade perfect?
According to the strategy guide,Alpha 3 version 98/07/27 is the one you should be playing with.

[Xenozip.]

i want to make sure that it isnt a one month wonder before i designate a forum for it. Hey MrWizard,
I think if you designate a forum for it, it would allow for A3 threads to have a home, which is certainly not a one month wonder (The main A3 thread in Other Games is still going strong). A3 could really use it's own forum, even if SFAA eventually loses public interest the section would still be very useful for A3 discussion.

Pretty please? :)

According to the strategy guide,Alpha 3 version 98/07/27 is the one you should be playing with.
Yeah, the 98/07/27 version is the good one.

The 98/06/29 has some pretty messed up glitches, like certain characters staying on the ground for huge periods of time after getting knocked down.

[Best Kind Boxer]

Can anyone get A3 shadow-hit-only VC setups to work against non-A3 characters?

[Richard]

Sorry for not being more clear dude. 3 human players isn't possible on any of the dramatic battle modes.
Nah, it's only possible in SFEX3 on PS2. Same thing with 4-player Dramatic.

Speaking of Dramatic Battles, I've not played the game yet, But I'm interested in getting it for the HSFA. Does this new Hyper version of Alpha allow a mixture of games on one team?
Like, SFA1-Guy and SFA2-Zangief Vs Shin Akuma? And how does the BG selection work?

[Hwoarvang]

Is Alpha isms ridicously overpowered against Alpha3 isms? It feels like they have this huge priority, big hitbox, and insane recovery on their normals.

[Akutabi Gamma]

According to the strategy guide,Alpha 3 version 98/07/27 is the one you should be playing with.
Hmm, can I use this with the Console version of Alpha 3?
Also how are the CC combos in A2 & A2G when compared to the Arcade version?
Also, I set A2 so that it's CC combos are performed A2G style. Is that OK?

[Gen-An]

What console version of A3? If you mean all the versions prior to SFAA, then no. As for CC activation method for A2, if you want to play "pure" A2 it needs to be the original motion, otherwise it doesn't really matter. The CC properties are the same as in the arcade versions.

[felineki]

Speaking of Dramatic Battles, I've not played the game yet, But I'm interested in getting it for the HSFA. Does this new Hyper version of Alpha allow a mixture of games on one team?
Like, SFA1-Guy and SFA2-Zangief Vs Shin Akuma? And how does the BG selection work?I don't think HSFA has Dramatic Battle... only Versus and Training. As for BGs, there are only 3 total (the waterfall stage from SFA2G, the Great Wall stage from SFA1, and the console exclusive cliff stage from SFA3 that was used for its dramatic battle, survival, and other such stuff... the latter two stages might have different color variations, I can't recall at the moment), and they are chosen randomly. Unlike most other SF games, the music is not stage-dependant, and instead is dependant on the characters selected.

[Demon Dash]

Hey MrWizard,
I think if you designate a forum for it, it would allow for A3 threads to have a home, which is certainly not a one month wonder (The main A3 thread in Other Games is still going strong). A3 could really use it's own forum, even if SFAA eventually loses public interest the section would still be very useful for A3 discussion.
I also made this request..... It was denied.

[OhNoos]

I also made this request..... It was denied.

Just take over the CFJ section, who goes there anyway?

[Best Kind Boxer]

^ this was already made in the CFJ section and denied.

[Sonic_Reaper]

I don't think HSFA has Dramatic Battle... only Versus and Training. As for BGs, there are only 3 total (the waterfall stage from SFA2G, the Great Wall stage from SFA1, and the console exclusive cliff stage from SFA3 that was used for its dramatic battle, survival, and other such stuff... the latter two stages might have different color variations, I can't recall at the moment), and they are chosen randomly. Unlike most other SF games, the music is not stage-dependant, and instead is dependant on the characters selected.

Actually for the stage selections I've noticed that I get the Alpha 1 stage when both players are Alpha 1 characters ... the Alpha 2 stage for Alpha 2 characters and ... I'm sure you know where this is going. Not sure if it's dependent on the player 1 or 2 side character and ISM however ... maybe it randomly selects a player side and chooses a correspending stage depending on that character's ISM?

[ssjbrydon]

Is Alpha isms ridicously overpowered against Alpha3 isms? It feels like they have this huge priority, big hitbox, and insane recovery on their normals.



i'd like to know this also. i was playing vs my friends A1 dan. he would a c.mk x qcb+mk and recover fast enough to block my c.lk with a3 ken/sagat/honda

[Ultima]

That's because A1 Dan is (relatively) a beast.

But yeah, a lot of the A3 characters' hitboxes were not as "weighty" as most of the earlier Alpha characters (worse yet, the CE characters). There are some exceptions (A3 Zangief's splash has an enormous hit box and a very small vulnerable box, for example).

[Frank the Tank]

Ok, so i was thinking while screwing around with the dipswitches for A3 the other day, we should set a recognized standard for tourney play in A3, A2, and HSFA. As in, Glitchdriver on/off, etc. This is just a suggestion, but i think it would cause way less complication if we go ahead and figure this out now.

[Saotome Kaneda]

Ok, so i was thinking while screwing around with the dipswitches for A3 the other day, we should set a recognized standard for tourney play in A3, A2, and HSFA. As in, Glitchdriver on/off, etc. This is just a suggestion, but i think it would cause way less complication if we go ahead and figure this out now.
Good thing this isn't already being discussed in one of the other 3 SFAA threads.

[felineki]

maybe it randomly selects a player side and chooses a correspending stage depending on that character's ISM?You could very well be right on that, because I think that's how it chooses music as well (meaning sometimes it chooses a song based on P1's character, and sometimes based on P2's character). What's realy cool is that if you play as an SF2 character in X-ISM, you get their ST music, and if you play them in CE mode, you get their CPS-1 SF2 music!

[Goldsplinter]

Would someone tell me why Fei-long and T. Hawk is in A2 Gold picture?

Off-topic: Watched Street Fighter the movie, the american live action one, I've seen it before plenty of times, except this time i noticed that T. Hawk is in it (rofl)... is fei-long in it too perhaps?

[CaliLifeStyle]

Would someone tell me why Fei-long and T. Hawk is in A2 Gold picture?

Off-topic: Watched Street Fighter the movie, the american live action one, I've seen it before plenty of times, except this time i noticed that T. Hawk is in it (rofl)... is fei-long in it too perhaps?

Dee Jay, THawk, and Fei Long are in the picture because Capcom just recycled the old Super Street Fighter 2 Collection picture.

Every Street Fighter 2 charater is in the JCVD movie except Fei Long and Akuma. Fei Long is not in the movie because of the obvious likeness to Bruce Lee. (just the film makers protecting their ass just like the Mike Tyson/M.Bison thing)

[Rik]

Well just to kinda change the setting here a bit, now that we've all had sometime to explore the game.......is anyone thinking this might be included in EVO.

[Infinitwar]

It could be. It seems to be a very deep game. What is the best ISM so far? I really like Blue-Ism.

[Rik]

CE-Ism....but im guessing it will probably be banned . I also highly suggest the banning of A1 characters and A2 characters as well...the A3 dudes r the only ones that r fair.

[Frank the Tank]

Well, I searched the threads with that nifty search feature, and i can see people talking about what the dipswitches do, but i have yet to find anything dealing with what should and shouldn't be turned on as far as tournament play is concerned. If i missed it somewhere, i'll be more than happy to shut up, but i'm pretty sure that i've searched everywhere.

[Xenozip.]

98/07/27 version is the good one. For A3

[dialupsucky]

CE-Ism....but im guessing it will probably be banned . I also highly suggest the banning of A1 characters and A2 characters as well...the A3 dudes r the only ones that r fair.



,,,,,,,

So then....... a.... alpha 3 tournment.

[Demon Dash]

^Exactly, I'm honestly sick of people saying ban this, ban this. It's HSFA... Who gives a shit if A3 characters aren't top tier?!

[Saotome Kaneda]

Well, I searched the threads with that nifty search feature, and i can see people talking about what the dipswitches do, but i have yet to find anything dealing with what should and shouldn't be turned on as far as tournament play is concerned. If i missed it somewhere, i'll be more than happy to shut up, but i'm pretty sure that i've searched everywhere.
You failed to catch my point. There's 3 other threads for SFAA. That means there were 3 threads that you could've put up this question. SO, I'll save you the trouble and merge it.

[Sonic_Reaper]

CE-Ism....but im guessing it will probably be banned . I also highly suggest the banning of A1 characters and A2 characters as well...the A3 dudes r the only ones that r fair.

Alpha 2 characters are not so bad. Actually ... I would say they're about on par with Alpha characters if you throw in exclusive use of the CC (I guess Alpha characters compensate with increased damage and ability to chain combo). A select amount of Alpha 3 characters are good, namely the top tiers from Alpha 3 itself (ie: V-ISM). A-ISM kinda blows the big one though I guess. From that though, a CE vs. Alpha vs. Alpha 2 vs. select Alpha 3 is still very possible.

[TS]

But when midscreen, this can't be the case. Since you can do sloppy DPs. You can even do a move, walk forward, do a move, walk forward, etc (http://youtube.com/watch?v=PQ5gq8hrUh4).
...
If nuetral states held true throughout, Chuns post-CC lightning legs would be an infinite right? They do juggle for an almost obscene amount of time (unlike A2) but even so, they stop hitting after 16-17 hits. There must be a limiter of sorts. (maybe totally independant of the whiff thing as well?) (http://youtube.com/watch?v=VDw6Wkfx4L4)
...


Finally got around to watching the YouTube vids. Seems consistent with A3 juggle system from what I'm seeing. A2 Chun's lighting leg hits longer probably because it's A3 Vega she's fighting...had it been an A1/A2/CE character, the juggle might have been shorter. Akuma's CC whiffs in the corner because he's leaving holes, or maybe because the hurricane kick CCs are completely gone in HSFA because of a netural state after them, can't really be sure.

CCs do have neutral states (which is why the corner CC in the video doesn't work) it's just that there's no juggle limit midscreen, so it doesn't matter as much.

A2 Chun's lighting leg might be an infinite, post-CC, but it's hard to say- it can only juggle for so much time, which is why it isn't an infinite in A2...in adition to A2 characters not being as easy to juggle as A3 ones, they also have moves which don't juggle as well. If it were an infinite (and I'm pretty sure it isn't), it would only work vs A3/DS/SF3/S-ISM characters. Someone posted a vid of throw->super working on an A3 character, but not on an A1 character. It would be something like that.

I think James Chen wrote a big guide on A2 juggle systems, in addition to the huge A3 one...even if not, he probably mentioned how it worked somewhere in the big CvS2 guide he did.

[Best Kind Boxer]

Seems consistent with A3 juggle system from what I'm seeing ... Akuma's CC whiffs in the corner because he's leaving holes, or maybe because the hurricane kick CCs are completely gone in HSFA because of a netural state after them, can't really be sure ... CCs do have neutral states (which is why the corner CC in the video doesn't work) it's just that there's no juggle limit midscreen, so it doesn't matter as much.

The first vid I posted is evidence that CCs don't adhere to neutral state rules during CC... Or more likely, CC mode avoids neutral states by default a la Cody's X-ism super.

At the end of the vid, I do extremely sloppy standing shorts during CC midscreen, and they all juggle. This is facing an Alpha 1 character. They behave like classical-ism, meaning, when trying a VC against them if you reach a neutral state everything afterwards will whiff and they drop to the ground (as you know).

If neutral states applied, that CC shouldn't have worked (and short hurricane xN shouldn't work either, but it does). So the reason for the corner whiffing can't be neutral states as far as I can tell, because CCs don't seem to be restricted by them. It must be something else.

A2 Chun's lighting leg might be an infinite, post-CC, but it's hard to say- it can only juggle for so much time, which is why it isn't an infinite in A2

It's not an infinite, I just mentioned it because I'm curious as to why it's NOT an infinite.. because if the neutral state thing is in effect it should be one right? I can only get them to hit 16-17 times post-CC. Maybe there's a hit limit?

In A2, the lightning legs won't juggle AT ALL in the same situation. they whiff completely. A2 CCs obviously have different rules. In HSFA, it works only if you start the lightning legs before CC ends.

I guess you could treat all this as evidence that CCs in HSFA juggles are like Cody's X-ism super and avoid neutral states?

...in adition to A2 characters not being as easy to juggle as A3 ones, they also have moves which don't juggle as well. If it were an infinite (and I'm pretty sure it isn't), it would only work vs A3/DS/SF3/S-ISM characters.

Infinites are infinites as far as I can tell in HSFA versus any -ism/mode. Although, shadow hit setups elude me VS non-A3 characters?

The lightning legs thing also works against non-a3 characters.

Someone posted a vid of throw->super working on an A3 character, but not on an A1 character. It would be something like that.

Treat non-A3 -isms like Classical mode. So naturally there are things that will juggle against A3 characters and not others (like how a lot of juggles don't work against classical-ism). What was the situation of this combo?

[OhNoos]

CE-Ism....but im guessing it will probably be banned . I also highly suggest the banning of A1 characters and A2 characters as well...the A3 dudes r the only ones that r fair.

A3 only? So I can use Shin Akuma? Awesome see you at the next tournament.


Also what's the difference between the various Sakuras? the red version seems the same as the normal version, to me?

[Baines]

Every Street Fighter 2 charater is in the JCVD movie except Fei Long and Akuma. Fei Long is not in the movie because of the obvious likeness to Bruce Lee. (just the film makers protecting their ass just like the Mike Tyson/M.Bison thing)

Word at the time was that Brandon Lee was wanted to play Fei Long. When Lee was killed filming The Crow, they just dropped the idea of having Fei Long rather than pick someone else..

[goodm0urning]

I was under the impression that banning is for gamebreaking stuff, glitches that subtract from gameplay, secret characters who are overpowered, et cetera...

Why don't you people just ban the whole god damn game, for fuck's sake?

[Demon Dash]

The first vid I posted is evidence that CCs don't adhere to neutral state rules during CC... Or more likely, CC mode avoids neutral states by default a la Cody's X-ism super.

At the end of the vid, I do extremely sloppy standing shorts during CC midscreen, and they all juggle. This is facing an Alpha 1 character. They behave like classical-ism, meaning, when trying a VC against them if you reach a neutral state everything afterwards will whiff and they drop to the ground (as you know).
But you're not doing a VC against them... You're doing a CC. VCs are designed to abide neutral states, CCs aren't, that's where the difference is coming from. That's why you can do it against those characters.

If neutral states applied, that CC shouldn't have worked (and short hurricane xN shouldn't work either, but it does). So the reason for the corner whiffing can't be neutral states as far as I can tell, because CCs don't seem to be restricted by them. It must be something else.
The reason A2 CCs don't abide by neutral states should be because they have no recovery system to respond to the neutral states. Mid screen it doesn't matter about neutral states because the CC system it's self works like that (unlike the VC system). But being in A3's "outside" laws, the corner juggle limit is still in effect, thus causing an effect on the CCs. Take what Master Akuma said for exaple.

A2, Akuma. You activate in the corner, short hurricaine to pop them up then you can DP at your will. Hyper, you're in A3's enviroment. You now have new things to take into concideration, the one on topic, the wall juggle limit. Mid screen it doesn't matter because you're in open water, you have no other outside A2 disturbances besides say an A3 character. According to the CC system everything is normal.

Hyper, A2 Akuma. You activate in the corner, short hurricaine to lift them up, now the juggle limit is active. Since this new law that the CC system never usually has to encouter is enforced, it must be respected to do what you want to do. Mid screen you don't have this disturbance. When you dragon punch to knock them up, if you land and don't cancel in the recovery, any juggle attempt will fail. You can try this your self, when you're coming down from the DP, if you cancel while he's still in the rcovery just as he lands, the DPs will still connect.

Okay, the chun-Li thing?

You activate the CC, LL them in the corner, cancel to AA, cancel to LL in the recovery of her landing. Straight away they hit the corner and the juggle limit is activated, but you don't return to a neutral state. You continue in an active state through the CC into a normal attacking state. Since you've never returned to a neutral state that last juggle has never fully been activated. If you hadn't have canceled the LLs in the recovery of her AA, you would have hit a neutral state and any attempts to juggle afterwards with LL will fail.

In A3 there's also another oddity where if a character get's to a certain low height they can't be juggled. You'll see in the video, when they fall out of the "trap" they're in they bounce up, but they fall lower every time. When you catch them on their way down and "trap" them slightly again, once they're released they'll fall below that certain height and become imune to juggles.

Edit: Also I'm sure I heard HSFA actually has a limit where crouch cancels will whiff after so many.....

[Xenozip.]

Infinites are infinites as far as I can tell in HSFA versus any -ism/mode. Although, shadow hit setups elude me VS non-A3 characters?
What do you mean exactly?

[Goldsplinter]

A3 only? So I can use Shin Akuma? Awesome see you at the next tournament.


Also what's the difference between the various Sakuras? the red version seems the same as the normal version, to me?
Red version sakura (marvel ism which is you highlight classical hold start and press left or right until it looks like it's not selected)....hmm well try doing: square, square, forward, x, r2

[Rik]

I think that considering the circumstances...maybe a A3 tourny is the only logical step to take. The truth behind the matter is that HSFA is a novelty....i doubt it was ever intended to be anything serious or competitve. If there r tournies it will only have to be by a game to game basis(no HSFA). I could go at incredible lenght over how broken and overpowered some characters r....this game doesnt reflect the ability of the player but rather the cheese of a character(cough...A1,A2 ken) thus this completly kills the competitve environment if u ask me.

[Bunkei]

I think that considering the circumstances...maybe a A3 tourny is the only logical step to take. The truth behind the matter is that HSFA is a novelty....i doubt it was ever intended to be anything serious or competitve. If there r tournies it will only have to be by a game to game basis(no HSFA). I could go at incredible lenght over how broken and overpowered some characters r....this game doesnt reflect the ability of the player but rather the cheese of a character(cough...A1,A2 ken) thus this completly kills the competitve environment if u ask me.

For a novelty, there was definately alot of thought and planning put into HSFA. I still think it's too early to state what's broke or overpowered.

I keep referring back to roll cancelling in CvS 2 and Cable's AHVB X 3 in MvC 2 as an example; don't underestimate players' ability to adapt.

We won't know what's broken and underpowered until there are several high-level tournaments for this mode.

And even then, that in itself is no guarantee. I can't remember another game where you can play at least 6-10 different versions of the same character (and HSFA has how many characters total? 34 I think?).

[Best Kind Boxer]

But you're not doing a VC against them... You're doing a CC. VCs are designed to abide neutral states, CCs aren't, that's where the difference is coming from. That's why you can do it against those characters.

The reason A2 CCs don't abide by neutral states should be because they have no recovery system to respond to the neutral states. Mid screen it doesn't matter about neutral states because the CC system it's self works like that (unlike the VC system). But being in A3's "outside" laws, the corner juggle limit is still in effect, thus causing an effect on the CCs. Take what Master Akuma said for exaple.

So... you're saying that midscreen, CCs aren't affected by A3 neutral state rules (they can't be).

BUT!

When you reach the corner, neutral states, and A3's corner juggle limit apply? As retarded as I think this sounds, It -does- explain what happens.

Okay, the chun-Li thing? ... You activate the CC, LL them in the corner, cancel to AA, cancel to LL in the recovery of her landing. Straight away they hit the corner and the juggle limit is activated, but you don't return to a neutral state. You continue in an active state through the CC into a normal attacking state. Since you've never returned to a neutral state that last juggle has never fully been activated. If you hadn't have canceled the LLs in the recovery of her AA, you would have hit a neutral state and any attempts to juggle afterwards with LL will fail.

Yeah I figured this because it only works post-CC if you start the LL before CC ends. It retains its CC juggling properties because you don't reach neutral state?

But, during CC, you can reach a neutral state and still do the lightning leg thing. This is also still consistent with A3 corner rules. The corner juggle limit is a rule that only activates when you reach neutral state, and it gives you one MORE opportunity to juggle. So you can sweep, reach neutral.. then do lightning legs (one more juggle) and it still works.

The A3 rapid-fire-weak-attack limiter is also there as well.

(Another thing about the lightning legs. There seems to be a 17-hit juggle limit on them during CC. You can only get 17 hits, then they drop through.)

I just find it retarded that when OUTSIDE of the corner, none of these rules seem to apply.

[dialupsucky]

I got to sit down with the game for a about a hour and tested some things.....

Umm yea I messed with the dip switch settings I still cant get guys dizzys and redizzys to work. SURE I can get them in ALPHA1, but if im playing A1 guy in hyper its just not working.... Someone needs to give me the exact dip switch settings, cuz if its been posted I missed it....

Also cody and sodom got the shaft in hyper. They can be juggled by a ton of shit that no other character can get juggled by. Examples being any kinda regular throw to most super just works vs them for some reason. Hell sodom say vs sodom can do his SPD then juggle after it! WTF retarded... Tons of shit like this. Theres some deffinte bizare juggles vs them that only work vs them.




As for guy stuff(since I mostly tried random stuff with him)....
A1 guy In hyper yea I guess I was doing bushin chain to punch super vs A3 characters cuz vs them it works easily. Dizzy combos and redizzys dont seem to work. Hell the stand fierce after stand roundhouse is wierd, and the overhead run move just doenst seem to combo off distances you would use it for the dizzy type combos. Again I guess I dont know the right dip switch, its fine if im playing A1 but in hyper.... no go... Sodom and cody can be juggled by a ton of shit that shouldnt be possible a1 sodom all the way through a3. Hell I can land a air throw vs sodom half screen away and a punch super will juggle....

....

I shoulda tried juggling after a alpha counter I wonder if you could lol. Rose for some reason doesnt appear to be able to be jugglable off a bushin throw, to punch super... Hrmm maybe I was fucking it up... I only tried a few times. Guys slide also seems to slide to far... I dont remember it slideing this far in A1. Also guys grab does not grab as easily as it did in A1.


A2 guy in hyper is not correct that I remember.... IIRC in A2 guys duck fierce was only cancleable if it hit close to him in the early starting frames, yet in this game I can cancle it at any distance. I didnt try the game A2 it self, but in hyper this was the case. Also vs sodom and cody you can juggle after the qcb+p with super yadda yadda. Pretty ridiculous. Pretty powerfull for a bread and butter type combo.




On to playing in A1 it self. Im not to sure A1 is totaly correct ethier. In A1 guys run stoped automaticly further away that I remember, so you didnt have to cancle it, and you didnt have to worry about stuttering, so it was much easier to run cancle and leave yourself at the advantage. You could get stuff like close mp, stand hp, run and youd stop automaticly. In this game it wasnt working(didnt seem to work in hyper ethier with A1 guy), sure you can get it with a close stand fierce, but no multiple attacks into it. Guy will run right next to them. So you have to do it manualy....

Dum....

Stand fierce doesnt seem to wiff. In A1 I thought it was possible to wiff your stand fierce, in this I never had this problem. It always hit.

Bushin throw to punch super wasnt working on guy for some reason.... Random.

I also think in this(as well as hyper)guys run slide seemed a tad different. He seemd to be slideing to far to me. Maybe it was my imagination..... Maybe.







Anyway thats all Ill touch apon for now, since a lot of the other stuff has been touched apon. Im sure theres other random juggle stuff and some cool stuff but I didnt play the game for to long just looked and tested some random things. I think the character sizes are a tad fucked up or something and thats why some of this weird shit is happening.

[dialupsucky]

oh yea A1 guy in hypers lk hurricane kick seemed to hit 3 times on block, it should only be able to hit twice that I recall.

[Best Kind Boxer]

What do you mean exactly?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1j7BZuBtXGg

I have no idea why the exact same combo works on A3 sakura, but not A2 sakura. But anyhow, the last bit with rolento is what I was talking about. I can't get the setups to work.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, these setups don't avoid nuetral state, but instead prevent the opponent from air-recovering right? So it would make sense that they wouldn't work against non-A3 characters?

Here is a better example : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXS60gx0zIE

[50-fiftytrap]

So is this verison of all the ALPHAS arcade perfect?

[hellhound7]

So is this verison of all the ALPHAS arcade perfect?


No!

[OhNoos]

Red version sakura (marvel ism which is you highlight classical hold start and press left or right until it looks like it's not selected)....hmm well try doing: square, square, forward, x, r2

Uh I said red, not marvel, red...as in select her, and hold down start which makes alpha 2 and alpha 2 gold-ism’s turn red... The same way you turn Akuma into Shin Akuma… The changes for Akuma are pretty obvious but for her not so much.

[dialupsucky]

oh yea I forgot to add. If you pick A1 ryu in hyper all those old jump mp juggle combos are ethier harder or seem to be gone period.

[Demon Dash]

So... you're saying that midscreen, CCs aren't affected by A3 neutral state rules (they can't be).

BUT!

When you reach the corner, neutral states, and A3's corner juggle limit apply? As retarded as I think this sounds, It -does- explain what happens.
Imagine it like this... There's two parts to the game mechanics, the outside things like how Hyper is the A3 system and it has it's wall juggle limit, also the inside things like hit boxes, character specifics, Ism specifics and game mode specifics. Naturally in A2 the inside and outside things work in a particular way, resulitng in the things you know in Alpha 2. But since the inside things have been taken from A2 and put with the outside things of A3, you get different results. It's as if the A1, A2 and A2G characters are guests in the A3 universe. Since they're in the A3 enviroment they must abide by A3's laws.

There's one common ground between A2 and A3, mid screen. When you're mid screen the only main disturbances you get are hit stun, block stun, crouching, moving, jumping or attacking. There's no set rules that say the A2 characters can't act the way they want to besides those that define the interaction between two different types of inside things, A2 and A3 (like A2 vs A3 = no recovery for e.g). But when you reach the corner you hit an outide thing that all A3 characters must live by (except Gen, the swine). Since you're a guest in their world, you must abide by it also.

I tested it with A2 Nash last night (activate, sumersault, sumersault, sumarsault) and you can occupy your time with a normal to land the last sumersault deep. You activate and do your first, you get the second one for free where the juggle limit is activated then if you cancel that with a sweep you can cancel again to another sumersault and catch them deep. The only thing you have to take into concideration with this is his sumersault has slow recovery, so you have quite a bit of time to cancel after he lands. But if you do wait till you return to a neutral state he whiffs the third.

Yeah I figured this because it only works post-CC if you start the LL before CC ends. It retains its CC juggling properties because you don't reach neutral state?

But, during CC, you can reach a neutral state and still do the lightning leg thing. This is also still consistent with A3 corner rules. The corner juggle limit is a rule that only activates when you reach neutral state, and it gives you one MORE opportunity to juggle. So you can sweep, reach neutral.. then do lightning legs (one more juggle) and it still works.
I wouldn't quite say it retains it's juggle properties, but since LL is one continuous move, even after that last hit you never returned to a neutral state. So it should be concidered on the very verge of the juggle limit activating.

The A3 rapid-fire-weak-attack limiter is also there as well.

(Another thing about the lightning legs. There seems to be a 17-hit juggle limit on them during CC. You can only get 17 hits, then they drop through.)
Suposedly there's a limit on the ammount of hits you can do while crouch canceling. Maybe there's a limit to how many juggles you can do without reaching a neutral state all together.

[felineki]

So is this verison of all the ALPHAS arcade perfect?
The disk has arcade perfect versions of SFA1, SFA2, SFA2G, and SFA3, yes.
Uh I said red, not marvel, red...as in select her, and hold down start which makes alpha 2 and alpha 2 gold-ism’s turn red... The same way you turn Akuma into Shin Akuma… The changes for Akuma are pretty obvious but for her not so much.I don't remember Sakura having any alternate modes in the original Alpha 2... but her Alpha 2 Gold alternate mode was identical to her normal mode, just with different palettes.

[dialupsucky]

Ah I dont think there arcade perfect.

[FSgamer]

Ok, so i was thinking while screwing around with the dipswitches for A3 the other day, we should set a recognized standard for tourney play in A3, A2, and HSFA. As in, Glitchdriver on/off, etc. This is just a suggestion, but i think it would cause way less complication if we go ahead and figure this out now.
What I'd suggest for dipswitch settings is for people to test it out at Evo2k6. If you're going to Evo, take your PS2 and your copy of SFAA with you, play some casuals against other people, try stuff out, maybe even have side HSFA tournament if possible. Leave all the options/dipswitch settings on default, and allow all the isms for now. That would be a nice way to see if there's anything that ruins the game or if anything should be banned. Also, by playing people from other places you might see the game from a different perspective.

Even though the game hasn't been out that long, I think that playing HSFA casuals at Evo would be a nice way to evaluate the game, the new isms, dipswitch settings, etc.

[Xenozip.]

-snip- Oh, I see.

Well the reason the combo failed on Sakura is more of a timing issue than a game mechanic. I got it to work with:
FP scrape, SP scrape, whiff JP scrape (crosses up), [RH, whiff JP scrape]xN

The timing is a bit weird, you have to do the scrapes slow and the kick at the "right time".

As for shadow set-ups, yeah you're right. The A3 VC's that involve shadow hits don't "avoid" neutral and aren't designed to. Most shadow set-ups are flippable, it's just that normally it's a bad idea to tech-flip out of them because there's a few frames after the flip-invulnerability wares off where you can't block and the opponent can hit you, re-setting the combo. So you see, you're going to get hit weather you don't flip, back flip, forward flip, or neutral flip (which means you're getting hit no matter what). And by flipping you're resetting the damage scaling, which means you're better off not flipping at all.

However, the A2 characters become immune to all juggles as soon as the A3 characters hit neutral during a combo. So yeah, shadow set-ups don't work on them, since they become invulnerable immediately after the shadow hit.

There are like 2 or 3 exceptions to shadow set-ups being flippable, though.

But incidentally one of the major unflippable set-ups is Chun-Li's mid-screen unblockable and her anti-air VC's which appear to not work at all against the majority of the A2 cast. In the case of the unblockable, either they simply can't be hit by the shadows of her tenshou kyaku, or they fall too fast to be hit by the shadow of her standing SK. Either way, the unblockable setup doesn't work. And in the case of her anti-air, I can't get the shadow of the standing SK to hit at all, even though they can be hit after an anti-air sweep.

Normally in A3 both setups would be completely unflippable, it would actually avoid neutral because the hit frames would occur simultaneously with the recovery frame. It still works in HSFA against the A3 characters, but not the A2 cast.

That means the only "true" CC set-ups that work on the A2 characters is pretty much air-to-air, I guess. I can't confirm the other "true" set-ups right now because they're random anyway.

[Seerd]

Why does CFE have a for