Another Rant...

[ParryAll]

I don't have the pull or the reputation that Exodus does, so I hope I'm not overstepping my bounds here.
I also hope I don't start a trend of rant threads, lol.

But I recently went on a rant and I never go on a rant, and I think it's a pertinent read for 3s players. The rant is about why I think playing theory fighter is a waste of everyones time.

http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3140579&postcount=136

Read it and let me know what you guys think. Am I on to something, or just talking out of my ass? You decide. Also might wanna check out the whole thread for some context.

Let me know what u guys think.

[HarmoNaz]

Totally agree with you...

I guess a good player feels totally owned when their old school tactics get parried and punished - I remember the first times when I'd do something to someone thinking it was a clever attack, and instead it got parried and punished and I was like :wtf:

And parrying really is something that takes time to get better at - you can't just watch vids and go in training mode for it. Maybe the old schoolers just aren't ready to embrace the whole new way of fighting?

[DevilJin 01]

Totally agree with you...

I guess a good player feels totally owned when their old school tactics get parried and punished - I remember the first times when I'd do something to someone thinking it was a clever attack, and instead it got parried and punished and I was like :wtf:

And parrying really is something that takes time to get better at - you can't just watch vids and go in training mode for it. Maybe the old schoolers just aren't ready to embrace the whole new way of fighting?

That's pretty much it. Which is why a lot of old school players refer to 3S as a "random" game. Basically...a lot of situations in 3S occur because of the parry system. You don't really need an Alpha Counter when someone is pressuring you when you're blocking. You can simply parry their next hit in a poke string and punish. Which old school players aren't used to. It just seems random and they don't see any real thought process behind it. Which it actually does take a good bit of knowledge to understand which poke strings are easier to parry, how to mix throws into your poke strings to deter parry attempts, and learning how to deal with someone parrying your footsie game.

All of those elements are key to success in 3S but, to someone who plays more of the old school fighters...it all seems like a bunch of random nonsense. Which there's really nothing you can do about it since that's their mentality. I've learned to understand it although 3S overall is a much more interesting game to me than Turbo (even though I really like Turbo also). It's just 3S is the first SF game that I really started playing competitively and the fact that I just simply like every aspect of the game. Not just the gameplay...but the graphics, the soundtrack, the controls...everything. I just have an obsession with the game basically.

[Big War]

The better ive gotten at 3S the more random it seems. Im playing Ken and so is my oppenent. Parry a low forward and want to punish? Well you oppenent knows you want your own low forward xx super and supers anyway. 1/2 life. WTF did I do wrong. I parried a low attack and wanted my reward. Parry and dont punish and be prepared to turtle for your life. I like 3S but the parry system does seem to give it alot of added guesswork. People will say its about knowing your oppenent and thinking on their level and shit. Bottom line is in a tournament you may have 0 knowledge of your oppenent and one wrong guess = you get bounced. Still a good game but guesswork is too important.

[DevilJin 01]

The better ive gotten at 3S the more random it seems. Im playing Ken and so is my oppenent. Parry a low forward and want to punish? Well you oppenent knows you want your own low forward xx super and supers anyway. 1/2 life. WTF did I do wrong. I parried a low attack and wanted my reward. Parry and dont punish and be prepared to turtle for your life. I like 3S but the parry system does seem to give it alot of added guesswork. People will say its about knowing your oppenent and thinking on their level and shit. Bottom line is in a tournament you may have 0 knowledge of your oppenent and one wrong guess = you get bounced. Still a good game but guesswork is too important.

Yeah...that's true. Chun and Ken can really fuck you up with parried low forwards. They can actually punish you for successfully parrying their low forward. Which can get really gay at times. Like you said...you just have to know your opponent enough to know whether it's better to try for a punishment or just block and hope they throw a super on reaction and then give you a chance to punish.

[savalas]

3S may seem random, but so can SFII at high level play.
Both games have some 50/50 situations in them.
The parry takes skill. I won't deny that. It's just some people think that it subtracts from the game instead of adding it. I don' t.

But Old School will always prevail.

[Waggs313]

I don't have the pull or the reputation that Exodus does, so I hope I'm not overstepping my bounds here.
I also hope I don't start a trend of rant threads, lol.

But I recently went on a rant and I never go on a rant, and I think it's a pertinent read for 3s players. The rant is about why I think playing theory fighter is a waste of everyones time.

http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3140579&postcount=136

Read it and let me know what you guys think. Am I on to something, or just talking out of my ass? You decide. Also might wanna check out the whole thread for some context.

Let me know what u guys think.
Parryall. That was so sweet. Props to you. You are completly right. To be honast, im speechless. That was outright like perfect.

[Hell Murder]

You made a great point. Pointless arguing is always a shame.

[First To 5 Wins]

it's just the way the game goes

[SaBrE]

theory fighter is always a waste of time. its always based around someone being a perfect player. everyone know theory fighter is a waste of time. nothing new there.

as for random, every game has their share of random, and 3s is no exception. its just the type of random and/or bs that the particular individual would rather prefer. or the lesser of 2 evils. i love 3s, but 3s has random occurances. and if you say it never does, then you are either too biased towards your game, or really dont know all the angles on how the word, "random", is defined in a fighting game world

[Goutetsu]

It’s an excellent post, Parryall, and I agree with you wholeheartedly. Says here that it was posted sometime after four in the morning, which makes it doubly impressive. Lord knows I can’t even write a cogent sentence at hour.

The better ive gotten at 3S the more random it seems. Im playing Ken and so is my oppenent. Parry a low forward and want to punish? Well you oppenent knows you want your own low forward xx super and supers anyway. 1/2 life. WTF did I do wrong. I parried a low attack and wanted my reward. Parry and dont punish and be prepared to turtle for your life. I like 3S but the parry system does seem to give it alot of added guesswork. People will say its about knowing your oppenent and thinking on their level and shit. Bottom line is in a tournament you may have 0 knowledge of your oppenent and one wrong guess = you get bounced. Still a good game but guesswork is too important.

On the above, I have to disagree. Surely the parry system, guesswork and all, is just another element to be taken into account in a game that actively encourages you to pry yourself away from the safety constraints its predecessors may have accidentally imposed upon you; it’s a development of Street Fighter’s underlying idea that guesswork, like it or not, is a crucial part of its makeup, and of just about any competitive game of skill I can think of. Chance has to be, in part, fundamental to its workings. Otherwise it boils down to nothing more than a test of wrist dexterity and the speed you can mash in learned button combinations, dressed up nicely in some highly animated two-dimensional sprites. Besides, if your opponent keeps low-forwarding into a super, you should be working to parry that as well, rather than repeating the same mistake over and over.

I’d argue that it’s not the game that may have to change, but our utter reliance on tournaments as a barometer for the level of a player’s ability. And that’s not to say that a tournament’s winner isn’t necessarily skilled, but rather he was just more skilled than his opponents on the day in question. That said, isn’t your ability to analyse an opponent's patterns faster than he can analyse yours one of the highest measures of skill you can possibly have? Just a thought.

[Kalyx triaD]

I play XB Live 3s a few times everyday. I get my ass stomped all the time. Sometimes it's frustrating, but I feel myself getting better each time. I'm better at 3D fighters, but a part of me will always get on SF. 3s is an evolution (or sadly, a climax) of 2D fighting systems; those who don't get with the program only trouble themselves.

[DrunkenGhost]

The better ive gotten at 3S the more random it seems. Im playing Ken and so is my oppenent. Parry a low forward and want to punish? Well you oppenent knows you want your own low forward xx super and supers anyway. 1/2 life. WTF did I do wrong. I parried a low attack and wanted my reward. Parry and dont punish and be prepared to turtle for your life. I like 3S but the parry system does seem to give it alot of added guesswork. People will say its about knowing your oppenent and thinking on their level and shit. Bottom line is in a tournament you may have 0 knowledge of your oppenent and one wrong guess = you get bounced. Still a good game but guesswork is too important.


Correct me if i am wrong, but in a low forward xx SA situation... you can parry and then block, basically making them burn a super for no reason. Seems like punishment enough, not to mention you can punish them after the SA ends, especially Chuns Hokyusen.

[Projectjustice]

Good rant Parryall, I agree with you.

[savalas]

Most fighting games are random at high level play.

When both players know counters to counters, then both players use mix ups (ie random play) to trick the other.

Call it calculated risk, call it whatever you want. But there will always be randomness in high level fighting games.

[Darkside3024]

I play XB Live 3s a few times everyday. I get my ass stomped all the time. Sometimes it's frustrating, but I feel myself getting better each time. I'm better at 3D fighters, but a part of me will always get on SF. 3s is an evolution (or sadly, a climax) of 2D fighting systems; those who don't get with the program only trouble themselves.
I tend to get my ass whooped alot on XBL but I'm not sure if losing to lag tactics counts as me sucking.

[Johnny Justice]

I tend to get my ass whooped alot on XBL but I'm not sure if losing to lag tactics counts as me sucking.

Unfortunately, it does.