Improving in fighting games

[Anime12478]

There have been many people asking how to improve in fighting games. The most common responses have been: practice more, watch videos, and find people to fight against.

I'm no advanced fighter participating in tournaments around the US by any means. In fact, I am quite the opposite; struggling trying my best to beat someone without relying on a lucky rabbit's foot. But I do have one idea that I am trying out.

I am thinking about keeping some sort of notebook to keep track of my progress. I am writing things like new techniques/combos I learn and things I need to work on. I only have one entry since I started the day before my trip in which I return on Wednesday, but it's something that I would like to see grow.

I thought of this for 2 reasons: 1) I recall things better when they are written down and 2) It's what some martial artists do so I felt that it would be good to translate that stuff to this. I know for a fact that it's nothing new, but it's something that I haven's seen the most dedicated people suggest. I would like to know what some of you masters and beginners think about this.

[snakedizzle209]

Practice practice practice.

Execution is my main focus. Everything else comes naturally with time and experience. I hate missing vital shit so I make sure I know what I'm doing and I can do it at least 8/10 times before I start trying it in real matches.

[goodm0urning]

Execution is the motherfucking watchword. It is the very foundation that your game is built on, so you have to start small. If you still biff your special moves and basic combos 10% of the time (or even less), your foundation is weak and your house will collapse--meaning that your game falls apart because of all the simple mistakes you're making.

It's like trying to learn to play Eddie Van Halen stuff on the guitar. You need to go slow and start with the basics (chords, blues progressions, simple solos) before you can graduate to the fast, crazy shit.

I realize it's been said a million times here, but it can't be stressed enough. And I can't tell you how many otherwise knowledgable players I've shut down because they simply played a little too sloppy, and basically handed me the match because of it.

[Anime12478]

Execution is definately a problem for me. I can do the moves, but retaining information and just doing them are pretty difficult.

This is where the notebook thing comes into play. I write thing in there like combos I learned and small nuiances that I learned about the system. Things will seem a bit dry for now since I haven't found people to fight against just yet, but hopefully I will get into deeper stuff to help lay the groundwork for my playstyle. If I can keep doing this, it would be nice to look back after several years and see how far I came.

[Tantin]

On the other hand, David Sirlin once said his, and many top player's execution is poor, and I've been told the Valle A3 Ryu VC was developed because he dropped normal VCs.

Not saying execution isn't amazingly important, but a strong gameplan and good reactions might be able to make up for it.

[Dark Geese]

Above all..dedication and being able to take the best out of losses.....take a loss and turn it into your best friend..learn all you can from it...

I think above all dedication and constant motivation...keep searching for new things even when nothing can be found..and above all

PATIENCE...these things dont happen overnight...

How do people like Wong play many games at a high level? They started with one and got it down real good..getting down the fundamentals etc..making it easy to transfer from one game to the next...you follow?

[Hokage Izlude]

One of the best ways to improve I think is to experiment! Trial and error! I've learned quite a bit in the last few months in RBFF2 and Garou:MOTW mostly through trial and error that has helped me improve my play.

[Dark Geese]

Excellent that is something I forgot that most people forget in this cookie cutter era..

[Khiempossible]

fuck execution. execution is important but being mentally liquid is far more important. what I mean by this is:

- not falling for the same shit over and over again
- remembering every situation and how your opponent behaved in it, punish accordingly
- learning your opponents style and using it against him
- changing and adapting quickly

I don't care how big a combo you can do if you fall for the same trap over and over again, it's not gonna matter.

This is why Jwong is so fucking good. If you watch him play he never falls for the same shit twice. What worked once, worked once and that's it.

If someone is reversing your tick throws, bait him and punish.

[Tawler]

I'm no expert, but being aware of yourself and where you're at is key. What sucks in your game at the moment. Execution? Spend time on it. Reaction time? Get on it. The hard part is you're going to have to also accept that for sucking in those things and trying to address them, you're going to have to lose a lot. For an egomaniac like me... that's a hard thing to do.

As for notes, that could be good to be aware of what needs work. It's a little too structured for me, who enjoys being masochistic and just fucking up a LOT before I get to improving a certain something.

[CPS_3]

Learn how to block. The most basic skill in fighting games no matter how good your execution is or how incredible your mind games are, if you can't block right you'll get your ass handed to you sooner or later.

And from that classic SF Video Guide: TDR - Timing, Distance and Reactions. :looney:

[snakedizzle209]

fuck execution. execution is important but being mentally liquid is far more important. what I mean by this is:

- not falling for the same shit over and over again
- remembering every situation and how your opponent behaved in it, punish accordingly
- learning your opponents style and using it against him
- changing and adapting quickly

I don't care how big a combo you can do if you fall for the same trap over and over again, it's not gonna matter.

This is why Jwong is so fucking good. If you watch him play he never falls for the same shit twice. What worked once, worked once and that's it.

If someone is reversing your tick throws, bait him and punish.

Like I said everything else comes naturally with time and experience. Theres no way you can practice being phychic. For example, You can study tapes and take notes of how to beat a skilled Makoto all you want, but your never gonna beat a good Mokoto without experience.

It's all character and game specific I guess. So lets say someone is a 3s Chun player. Then I guess execution really wouldnt matter that much. It would all be about reaction.

I've lost too many matches to count because of messing up simple things. It sucks when at the end of the match you have to say "damn I woulda won that whole match if I had better execution". That can happen in any game, buts it's easy to work on. Imagine someone making a big comeback on someone just because there opponent missed out on massive damage. If you wanna play your 100% best then you have be able to do everything you want to do. It's rare that you see Bas fuck up a CC. It's rare that you see KO mess up a Genei-jin. It's rare that you see RX miss a charge buffer or a charge partition. It's rare to see a magneto mess up a vital combo that could have set up and easy win. In any fighting game one mistake is big punishment, but if your oponent knows you have no execution then he isnt gonna be as scared of you. Reaction is a good substitute as well because your gonna be scared of a Chun who can take off half of your life with a simple c.mk xx super.

Experience comes with dedication and shows later on. Experience is the MOST important thing, but you cant become the player you wanna be when your fucking up basic shit and alot your style revolves around a 50/50 "I can only do it sometimes".

[Demon Dash]

On the contrary, CMAN is right. I've practice execution on 3s for years, one of the only other players I know near me doesn't. Now, he beats me on a regular basis, probably 50/50. How is this? Because he concentrates on his game. Sure execution is important, but it doesn't mean you can't win without it.

When I go to London I get absolutely battered because I have no outside experience, something practising execution doesn't give you. Once you learn the basic fundamentals of the game, the main thing you want to focus on is being able to defeat your oponent..... Not being able to do 100 different types of infinites and resets etc.

[goodm0urning]

On the contrary, CMAN is right. I've practice execution on 3s for years, one of the only other players I know near me doesn't. Now, he beats me on a regular basis, probably 50/50. How is this? Because he concentrates on his game. Sure execution is important, but it doesn't mean you can't win without it. Here's my opinion on execution: saying that it's okay to not practice it because certain players get along fine without it is kind of risky.

To use an analogy: Jimmy Page has always been a sloppy player onstage, and he's definitely a guitar hero. But that doesn't mean that novice guitar players everywhere shouldn't practice playing things cleanly and clearly. There is one Jimmy Page, and chances are, you're not him. Likewise, a guy like Valle might not have brilliant execution, but he definitely has a lot of other factors as a player that most people don't have, or at least don't have as strongly. In the event that you don't develop into a deity like him, it is best to practice your basic shit and become a well-rounded, precise player instead. If you're looking for an edge, this is a good way to cultivate it.

Just my two yen.

[BoswerLK]

improving your execution increases your possibilities and gives you more options in more situations, not having any execution essentially means you can't do shit

many top players don't have "bad" execution, they just don't have perfect execution, rather, they have enough execution so that they're versatile enough to get out of most dire situations

once you get basic execution stuff down like antiairing, basic punish combos, spacing and poking, you gotta start to develope a gameplan and know what other characters can do

as said, that means if you get smacked for doing something once, you don't do it again, hit them without letting them hit you back for it, and when they make a mistake and leave themself open you gotta punish them for it

then you should improve your execution a little more so you can do tricks and stuff to create openings yourself (instead of waiting for their mistake), punish mistakes and openings your opponent creates should be second nature at this point

after that, it'll be down to whoever has the better gameplan, characters/matchup, better tricks, reflexes, and just general refinement and control (like, the difference between being able to karacancel 95% or 99%)




for the record, I never practiced, and there was a time where I actually kicked some serious ass and gave nigh-top players a hard time (even beating a few), but bad execution and perfect tactic only goes so far, so yeah, it possible to be really good with horrendous execution, but you won't ever improve to top level play without it

[Mixah]

tiers of importance

1. entire movelist of your character
- without this, you don't have a character. you have bits of them. even if the move isn't used frequently, there's still the idea of knowing what the move is... example, most matches, you will never see a magneto player use force field... but there is the case when something is so blatently obvious that you can use it to have an easy ROM set up.
2. BnB combos with your character
- ok, so you get the hit... now what? you want to know how to get a good combo off with your character consistantly, end of story. if you don't know storm's air combo to LA xx LS, you're done, don't use her.
3. strategies and reset setups
- ok, so you got your execution for the basics down. now, learn to get the hit. that's all that's about. learn to force it and play pressure games.
4. reaction time and learning how to utilize your character in good and bad matchups
this can only be achieved in actual play. remember, just because your dhalsim can beat 10000x zangiefs, doesn't mean he can take down a chun li... or your cable can rock 90% of the world's sentinels... but still sucks if you lose to 90% of the world's storms. beating scrubs is not something to brag about.
5. all that tricky shit you see in videos. ok, so you can pull off meikyosisui shit... is it worth anything though?

[goodm0urning]

5. all that tricky shit you see in videos. ok, so you can pull off meikyosisui shit... is it worth anything though?
If you can devise a way to pull it off during gameplay, it certainly is. Working "trickshot" stuff into actual gameplay is more of a Japanese thing than a U.S. thing, but hell, if it works, it works.

[omfg]

I'm hoping to write something about this stuff one day. not a book or anything, just a little site. Experience is important, but the absolute most important thing is something EVERYONE (this means regardless of intelligence, level of skill in the game, level of skill in general) can use to better themselves is to learn from pain

[jimmy1200]

execution is something you really want to be 95% and up with. thats just a part of gaming though, but that part you definitely want to have down. especially in games like tekken, where you might be a little off axis or whatever. you definitely want your situational combos down and you want them to be executed with perfection. execution execution execution is definitely a plus. if you punish, you want to punish hard. not half ass, and work on the rest of the stuff too. im to drunk right now to think about the other stuff you want to have down

VEGAS BABY VEGAS WOOOOOOOOO

[Master_Amado]

Everything said so far is true...pretty much. I think you have to look at just which "street fighter" are you trying to become better at. I mean Mvc2 is a very different game than 3rd Strike.

But probably the most important thing is knowledge of the game engine. I cant tell you how many people I see who are supposed to be top players trying to do specials or supers in situations that the game engine would not even allow. Take a good ken player who has good execution but no experience fighting against Makoto and see who has an advantage. If you are not familiar with the game engine and different character match ups all the execution in the world wont help.

[MENTHOL]

I'm no master, but...

Practice. If you have no one to play with, there's still plenty you can do. Defensive training (learn to appreciate this and don't get bored with it.), offensive execution, and practice with in-game situations and strategies in mind. Don't just practice with no purpose. Even with shitty AI (if that's all you have to play against), still play them as though they're human. You won't get to the top this way but if you're putting in the time, it'll still help for when you can get comp. And another thing is stick with one character if it's a 1v1 game. I can't tell how many times I see newbies who go all random select and never learn a damn thing. Ever. Learn your character inside and out.

Next is obviously competition. This is where everything starts falling into place that you just can't practice by yourself. There was always this kid who played basketball all the time by himself in jr high. He was a really good shooter. Really good. But he didn't have a chance to play against anyone seriously because he lived in the country. By the time he got a car in high school, he'd play with the rest of us. He could shoot his ass off but he couldn't do much else. Over time he started picking up everything else only human competition can provide and he became the best player in school. Fighting games are no different. It's neccessary. Again, even if they're not good players, play them with the intention of improving. Have the mentality of improving all the time. If you have a hard time playing against a certain character and you're at a certain level of confidence in the character you play as, go practice with the character you're not good against and learn that character, too. You don't have to at a serious level but knwoing them will only help you. Knowing is half the battle.

Watch matches. It helps to see how other people play and you might pick up a thing or two. Plus it's always good to scout your comp if you can.

Lastly, it takes time to get really good and depends on how much you're putting into the game. The more you put in, the faster the results. But it still takes a long time. Top players have been playing these games for years and the only way to get to their level is to do the same. Or pray they stop playing. Don't get discouraged. Take everything as a learning experience because that's all it's going to be for a looong time until your skills can really start competing at a serious level. Still play to win from the beginning to the end. But take note of why you're losing when you do and what you can improve on.

If you have the motivation to get good and you put in the work, you'll get good.

[Rise Vader]

if your playing 3s on ps2 i find its good to save the replays where you lose so you can find out why.

[Demon Dash]

Here's my opinion on execution: saying that it's okay to not practice it because certain players get along fine without it is kind of risky.
Imo you only really need to practice solid execution before a tournamet or other SF event/gathering. If you're just having casuals and especially in 3s you should be concentrating more on observing your oponent, figuring them out and developing counters to all the different styles you encounter. Execution is NOT your main priority, trust me, I've learned the hard/long way. Of course if you like playing around and sorting out new combos then go for it, but there's far more important things to concentrate on.

[aznflict]

if the notebook method works for you, keep it. whatever helps you learn, practice, etc...

some people watch match vids, some people play at their local arcade 24/7, whatever works for you.

[Demon Dash]

I think "whatever works for you" doesn't quite fit, as not a lot of people have a choice whether they go to the arcade or watch match videos. If you want to improve your ideal situation would be to play as much competition as possible at an arcade. If you have a busy life... go to a gathering once a week, if no-one plays where you live... get X-Box live, if you can't afford it... watch match videos... You see where I'm going with this? It all depends really how much you want to improve and what you're accesable to.

[Kyokuji]

The key to getting better is understanding.
You can play for 3 years, but if you don't 'get' what you're doing wrong, then you're not going to progress much.

When you watch videos or other people play, watch closely.
Think, "Why isn't he using this move", "Why doesn't he attack when I think he has an opening", "What are his patterns" "What are my patterns and are they becoming predictable", etc.

Avoid playing just to win. ie. Doing random ass stuff hoping you luck out a win. This teaches you absolutely nothing in the long run and only serves to help develop bad habits.

[spudlyff8fan]

I have been made the bitch of many GG and 3S players in my time on XBL...

For Guilty Gear, I'm not improving on my strengths as much as I am phasing out my weaknesses. Like my inadvertant bursting, interjecting uppercuts into pressure strings, and some spacing problems with air combos.

In 3S, same thing, but I just don't know any Ken/Ryu combos :P

[Demon Dash]

The key to getting better is understanding.
You can play for 3 years, but if you don't 'get' what you're doing wrong, then you're not going to progress much.

When you watch videos or other people play, watch closely.
Think, "Why isn't he using this move", "Why doesn't he attack when I think he has an opening", "What are his patterns" "What are my patterns and are they becoming predictable", etc.

Avoid playing just to win. ie. Doing random ass stuff hoping you luck out a win. This teaches you absolutely nothing in the long run and only serves to help develop bad habits.
Truth. One thing I had to get out the habbit of was always looking for supers. It's true, supers get you killed if you keep going for them. It took me a while to get in the habbit of trying to preasure and out think the opponent more. Random sweeps aswell, I punnish my mates sweeps ALL the time and he never learns. Sweep, blocked... Ooops, SAII!

Personally I have a lot of knowledge and years of execution, but because I've never had the chance to actually go out and test my limits, my time spent practicing execution is practically wasted.

One way to look at it is, you only begin learning and improving to a conciderable level once you jump into the world of competition. Any efforts you put into it whether it be execution, knowledge, hit confirm, anything, are only a head start..... You still have to go through the same "learning" process that all competetive players go through. This is where your differences lie, this is the reason why you ask questions like "how can I improve?" or "how do I beat this Hugo? What am I doing wrong?"

[Dark Geese]

Well I agree with most of your points Kyokuji with the exception of avoiding playing to win..for me playing to win separates my mentality from my fellow casual gamers...

I play to be the best...for me that gives me extra motivation to find out every little quirk about the game..and go above and beyond analyzing match vids..while I find it on the contrary near me..

People who dont play to win and just play for fun are stagnant..they are stale and dont improve nearly as fast as someone playing to win and willing to do whatever it takes to get better..

Its all about dedication...I play to win so that means studying everyone's styles and doing whatever it takes to get better...

I dont do random ass stuff hoping to win...it's never random its always calculated for me..

To me its all about the dedication...some just wanna play for fun..and those are the people that will peak out fast..bc it is "just for fun"...people trying to be the best are the ones pushing the limits..the ones discovering infinites, glitches and things like that because they want to be the best and once they peak out they find ways to push themselves even farther..like professional athletes that train until they can't train anymore..why?

Not for fun..to be the best at what they do...

people playing for fun might discover that stuff on accident when the latter would discover it surely quicker..

P.S. There is nothing wrong with playing for fun. I just find for me to get better and not be stale, around me I need to be around like-minded dedicated people like me.. Too many around me just wanna play for fun..that holds me back..so I have to do what it takes by myself to improve..and I constantly improve...never stay stagnant..why??? Simple..bc I wanna be the best...

-Dark Geese

[Panicked]

I don't get what Demon Dash is arguing about. Snakedizzle already said you need execution as the basis for what you're doing, then you need experience. Which is why you get your ass handed to you in London.

Think of it this way, maybe if you just had experience you could punish that blocked super for 20% or something. Now that you have good execution you could maybe punish for 30%. It adds up, eventually.

[polarity]

I hate that "playing for fun" and "playing to win" have become mutually exclusive in the minds of people here (I think Sirlin is to blame for this, despite how good those articles are). I think we all play FGs because it's fun. I play to win BECAUSE I have more fun that way than just fucking around casually, not caring who wins. It's a false dichotomy.

[Dark Geese]

Amen...polarity props... I dont play Marvel, GG, or CVS2 to me bc it AINT FUN..

To me fun has to be first..if I cant have fun in a game anymore (like 3s) I aint gonna play it to win anymore!!!

Games Im playing to win is bc first its fun...now I can focus on winning and make it MORE FUN!

[MENTHOL]

KyoKuji, If you're playing to win, you're not doing random ass stuff. WTF that doesn't even make any sense. Playing to win means playing smart to win at all times. Playing random just means you don't care what the outcome is.

NOT playing to win develops bad habits. Not the other way around.

[polarity]

If you're playing to win, you're not doing random ass stuff. WTF that doesn't even make any sense. Playing to win means playing smart to win at all times. Playing random just means you don't care what the outcome is.

If you're talking to me then I think you misunderstood what I said.....:confused:

[MENTHOL]

Not you silly pants. It's edited now.

[curryInfection]

Hmmm, there's some good advice on this thread.

I have always been into fighting games, but I never had the time to dig into and truely improve in any game. Nonetheless, its interesting to see the diverging opinions on execution. I can understand why some feel execution is not necessary to become a better player, but it is almost suicidal to not improve one's ability to preform a fireball motion. In the end, I think its the focus on executing special moves and pulling insane combos that sometimes detracts from a players progress.

Execution definately opens more options, but all too often new players(myself included) almost exclusively focus on getting those dragon punches , super moves, roman cancels, or whatever the flash gimmick the given game has. As a result, these players ignore the merits of normal moves and the simpler underlying mechanics which could just as easily suffice.

Using myself as an example, I typically use Zangief when I play Street Fighter 2 (on the NES, I know its not the best but that doesn't matter). I initialy only tried to land the spinning pile driver, which boiled down to hoping my oponent was in range and not attacking me when I finally got the 360 motion on that infernal pad. Needless to say, I got pwned. Things improved considerably when I discovered Zangief had other moves besides his infamous grab.

All in all, the only reason why top players can get by with somewhat questionable execution while others who extensively work on execution don't win as often as they would like is because those tricky moves can be substituted by simpler means.

[Khiempossible]

Think of it this way, maybe if you just had experience you could punish that blocked super for 20% or something. Now that you have good execution you could maybe punish for 30%. It adds up, eventually.

EXACTLY. If you have execution you can punish a blocked super for 30% instead of a 20%. But it's the experience that means you blocked that super. Execution here provides you an extra 10% damage, while experiences gives you +40% (not being hit by that super and inflicting 20% damage afterwards).

I told my friend to learn 3s. he jumped on the idea. he learned c. MK jab srk kara jab srk, kara throw, c.LK (x3) shippu, b+MK shippu. But when he plays he has no experience. I kill him everytime with a ken that can only do c.MK shippu. Why? because he doesn't know shit all about the game. He sits there and simply tries to learn combos and falls for the same kara throw/shippu traps over and over again. Experience my friend is way more valuable than execution.

[skankin garbage]

Excuse me if I've reposted anything that people have already said, but I didn't feel like I needed to read the entire thread to justify giving my two cents on how to improve.

To improve, you first of all need to know what you need to improve on. There are three big foundations of fighting games. They all go hand-in-hand with each other, though I think some are more important:

1. Knowledge - This is the easiest thing to improve. Knowledge is (obviously) just all the information you have on one game. This spans from little things, knowing how much damage your combos do with characters, what works on which characters, and what every character is capable of, to very specific things, like knowing the perfect spacing when zoning people out with Axl, what fireballs Ryu's Hurricane Kick goes over in SF2, or that Zangief's Standing Jab completely whiffs a Karin when she's on the ground in CFE, standing or crouching. The best thing about knowledge is, it's the easiest thing to improve - you simply learn something, and then you remember it. It's that simple. The vice of knowledge is that it differs from game to game. in Street Fighter Alpha 3, Guy's Crouching Fierce whiffs at point blank, but it doesn't in CFE. Make sure to dedicate yourself to obtaining as much knowledge as you can on a game you're serious about.

2. Technical Mastery - This is basically your physical skills...execution and setups. It's a manifestation of your knowledge. Can you do C. Mk into Hadouken? Can you do a decent Custom Combo? Can you set up (and pull off) an Aegis Reflector unblockable? Are you good at pulling of False Roman Cancels? This is what dissuades a lot of people from playing fighting games seriously, because they put a bit too much stock into how important it is. Now, I'm not saying it ISN'T important; having a certain level of technical mastery is VERY important. But if you don't know how to use all this stuff practically, it will only lead to arbitrary, chance successes. That's the trouble with Technical Mastery; it goes hand-in-hand with your Mental Game. Once you have that Mental Game, though, being able to capitalize with all the technical stuff you've practiced will really pay off.

And finally,

3. Mental Game - In all aspects, from just having the right attitude and mindset, with knowing what to look for, being able to outthink your opponent, knowing where to focus your attention...It might seem strange, or even ridiculous, if you've never thought about it too much...but a lot of inexperienced players lose because they don't think about what their opponent is doing or thinking...they're only thinking about what THEY'RE doing (and by proxy, what THEY'RE thinking). This gets them in trouble cos they don't think ahead, and they don't know what to do in the middle of a battle. This is easily the most important thing to winning in fighting games, but it's the hardest thing to improve. If you lose a lot, you're bound to lose confidence. If you don't play enough, you're bound to lose focus. If you're not challenged enough, you probly will never have to try hard enough to outthink your opponent as you would playing someone really good.

All three of these are directly related to each other. You might have a lot of knowledge about one particular game, but it won't help you in the other; Having a good technical mastery won't mean shit if you can't apply it; and your mental game, no matter how powerful, can't carry you to the top if you have nothing to back it up except 'heart.'

It's just like chess; what good are your moves gonna do if you don't know what the hell you're aiming to do? What good are your little tricks if you can't set them up? Too many people focus on just ONE of these things, but I think to be really good, you should focus on all of them. Now go forth, fight the good fight, and all that shit.

[phoenixnl]

I think the importance of technical mastery is really dependant on the game, and also on the character. Take guilty gear, you're worth jack shit if you can't do the combo's. A Baiken that can't do the dustloop is a sitting duck, same goes for Sol badguy t a certan extent. As a Baiken you should also be able to whip out the tk youzansen, because it's the only overhead with a reasonable startup but the imput is fucking difficult and very strict, especially in GGXX#Reload.

But for example third strike doesn't need such a high level of technical mastery, the juggling possibilities are simply not as open as in guilty gear, nor is their a range of moves which 'shouldn't' be possible. Like Baiken's youzansen, which is supposed to be an aerial move but can be used as a standing overhead. Through this the execution of sick combo's and bizarre move imputs is just not as important, since the possibility isn't there.

and that's about all I have to say :D

[skankin garbage]

Yeah, but I think that there's specific types of technical mastery involved in every game...like, it's different to do jump in combos in SF2 than in other games...VCs in SFA3 take a different type of technical skills than Guilty Gear crazy FRC 80% damage combos and shit.

It's also a matter of options. In Guilty Gear, for example, most characters revolve around being highly specialized; for that reason, most characters are very technical. Sure, there are a few that aren't all that technical, like Ky or Axl (some people tell me that Potemkin is very easy to use, but I've never tried), but most of them are very technical...too technical for me to care to learn, lol. But if you take 3rd Strike, there are some characters that require a decent level of technical ability and knowledge, like Yun and Urien, while there are other characters that cater more to being able to psyche out your opponent and outthink them, like Elena or Hugo.

Of course, the mental game and technical game for all those characters are still very important, but different characters stress different things, and yeah...different games, too. My technical ability to do crazy ass combos is just downright bad, which is why I was never good at stuff like A-Groove, and V-Ism shit, and playing damn near any Guilty Gear character (though Guilty Gear characters don't have stuff that's too hard to time, learn, and remember...it's just more work than I'd like to put in, honestly :P). My strength is definitely in my mental game, so I pick characters that focus on my strengths, like Guy, Elena, Axl, Zangief, etc.

[Mixah]

If you can devise a way to pull it off during gameplay, it certainly is. Working "trickshot" stuff into actual gameplay is more of a Japanese thing than a U.S. thing, but hell, if it works, it works.
No, not really, because that shit doesn't make you good at all COUGHEKINJOOYUTACOUGH

[Henaki]

No, not really, because that shit doesn't make you good at all COUGHEKINJOOYUTACOUGH
its pretty obvious that you shouldnt be practicing this before learning the basics -> advanced shit for your character but once you've reached that limit you have to take it somewhere, so it might as well be the most highly impractical setups/combos that you will eventually get a few shots to use.

[Mixah]

yea, but what goodmourning said was that it's useful if you can figure out how to use it in a match.. which is why when you watch top MvC2 you see magneto players do the most impractical shit. the reality is that unless you're watching magnetro, you see basic shit and that's IT in a match. do what you want in a combo exhibition... in a match, it's a completely different world.

[neuroax0n]

ok so here is my problem. i've just gotten into the fighting game scene January of this year and started up on 3s. i've been playing for about 5 months. people tell me practice execution, watch a lot of match vids, play as many people, etc, etc. which i have been in the last 5 months. but i feel i havent improved at all. i still cant see my mistakes during a match except for obvious things like a wake up shoryu or something. i can play and play and still cant see what mistakes i'm doing. i would have to ask my friends or the person i played to know what mistakes i made. is this, normal? i guess u can say i'm a slow learner. also, when i watch match vids to analyze what they do. and to be honest i dont know what i'm really looking for when i watch them. people tell me, watch to see what they do and not do. i try but i cant really seem to learn anything from watching them. any advice u guys can give me into improving in 3s?

[goodm0urning]

yea, but what goodmourning said was that it's useful if you can figure out how to use it in a match.. which is why when you watch top MvC2 you see magneto players do the most impractical shit. the reality is that unless you're watching magnetro, you see basic shit and that's IT in a match. do what you want in a combo exhibition... in a match, it's a completely different world.I'm not saying you're going to be pulling off a lot of the Combovideos.com type shit in practical play, but there is a lot of useful stuff that many U.S. players incorrectly view as not useful because they think of it solely in terms of exhibition. Part of the reason why our players get killed so bad by the Japanese in games like 3S is that they've found ways to execute set-ups for the shit that our guys aren't even willing to touch in competetive play.

Hell, a lot of the stuff you see people doing nowadays in (for example) CvS2 would have been seen as impractical when the game was new.

[Strider2k2]

I'll be quick and blunt. It all comes down to

1) Character potential : Knowing exactly what is your character good for and exactly what a character is capable of. Also, to be good at fighting games in general, you need to have an idea of how the *other* characters play like. This is extremely important. In this case, Tier lists can help a new player get a sense of who dominates the game, or who is the weakest.

2) Movelists: What are the best pokes for the character i'm playing with? Which special moves are safe/unsafe when blocked? Which are the best strings i can rely on? I can't stress this enough. It's very important to have a pressure game and learn the best pokes from long-range, mid-range and short-range.

3) Practice/Feedback : Having friends tell you exactly what you're doing wrong is helpful. Think of them as your coaches. If you can find someone that gives you feedback...it always helps your game.

4) Understanding: If you don't know the basics, and exactly why you lost your match, you might as well throw points 1,2, and 3 out the window. Just take a step back and learn the basics of the game system before you decide on learning a character. If this still isn't helping, a tutorial (whether it be a video, in-game practice mode, FAQ, etc.) might help greatly. (That's how i got better in 3S).