Capcom Vs Snk 2: Match Analysis [Archive]

yk808

06-12-2002, 10:56 AM

Ok, here's something I guess not many other people may know anything about, but I could use some ideas.

Vice (N) vs. Sagat (C, N, K, P, A)

I use vice mostly defensively, but I have to rush down sometimes. I've heard that because Sagat can't duck under her high priority st. Strong she can run at him and rush down. I need help with move priorities mostly, as once I get in close I stand a pretty fair chance.

Also

Rolento (A, or N) vs. Todo (A)

Shit, whenever he knocks me down he does a custom and rapes poor rolento... Super counter, and crazy roll canceling stops most of my pokes, wake up games, and jumpins. Help!

And Again

Rolento (A, or N) vs. Geese (P)
Rolento (A, or N) vs. Hibiki (P)

I have a lot of problems with this match up. I think I poke too much, and their P is too good for that. Other than kkk jump in empty and throw, or just throw knives all day, any ideas for mixups I can use? Keep in mind this guy (Jeff if you know about the 808 scene) is very good at anticipating parries and counters.

And thats about it.
My team btw is Chunli, Rolento, Vice in either A (rolento gets 2), N (vice gets 2), or S (whoever, S sucks...)

Burghy

06-12-2002, 11:10 AM

I'll bite!

Branka (N-groove) vs M Bison (psycho, C-groove)

My main problem is his ridiculous jump priority. I can't even beat his j. RH with st. fierce or RH. What's up with that?

If I can rushdown him and he doesn't have a L3 on hand, then I usually win. But if he keeps me away jumping all over the place and doing randomly well placed knee presses, then I get slowly drained until I die a horrible death. Who has the Theory Fighter advantage in this matchup?

Branka (N-groove) vs Mai (C-groove)

Okay, I suck, I admit it. But I can't seem to stop J. RH, crossup LK interspersed with random annoying fan tosses. What should Branka do? hop fierce a lot, or something? I know Mai isn't supposed to be top tier, but I'm having a lot of trouble getting past this.

yk808

06-12-2002, 11:16 AM

Originally posted by Burghy
Branka (N-groove) vs M Bison (psycho, C-groove)

My main problem is his ridiculous jump priority. I can't even beat his j. RH with st. fierce or RH. What's up with that?

If I can rushdown him and he doesn't have a L3 on hand, then I usually win. But if he keeps me away jumping all over the place and doing randomly well placed knee presses, then I get slowly drained until I die a horrible death. Who has the Theory Fighter advantage in this matchup?

When he jumps try a jump straight up fierce, that stops just about everything. Or even a razorkick ball thingy. Also if you have the meter try to have a stock brocken at all times, not only will that stop him from jumping (for fear of a level 3 ball), but will let you rush down better, giving you extra guard crush and damage. You might as well try for low jump rh, and kkk throw games. Oo O! And learn the level 3 crossup trick, that shit is tight! You'll have to get someone else to walk you though it though...

But considering I don't use those characters, I shouldn't really be saying this...

Mr-K

06-12-2002, 01:20 PM

Originally posted by Burghy
Branka (N-groove) vs Mai (C-groove)

Okay, I suck, I admit it. But I can't seem to stop J. RH, crossup LK interspersed with random annoying fan tosses. What should Branka do? hop fierce a lot, or something? I know Mai isn't supposed to be top tier, but I'm having a lot of trouble getting past this.

Not only do you suck, but you should also know it's Blanka not Branka. Here's a trick that I read on some thread a while ago in countering fireball characters who stay far away throwing fireballs and play tricks with it. You should never jump at Mai from far unless it's a super jump. Try walking in and block the fan toss and then walk into range where you can actually j.RH the next fan toss.

Cheezy Rice

06-12-2002, 02:33 PM

Ok, psx2000 if you don't mind I'm going to do the first video demenstration thing.

The first match I decided to do is haramori vs ino (jap match)

Harmori-Sagat, Morigan, Blanka

Ino-Sagat,Chun Li, Blanka

The first match is a Sagat vs Sagat. In the beginning Harmori ( right side start) plays as if he is trying to have ino come to him with jumping fk, land fp, which obviously isn't working for Harmori because he does not get a landed attack for about 16 seconds into the match. This first mini match changes when Ino gets Harmori into the corner, this is so because the only thing haramori has been doing the whole match is waiting, backing up, and waiting for something to counter.

When Harmori gets in the corner he knows playing counter is not going to work so he decids to go on the offensive, if not he would of been trap/dead/stuck in the corner. Once Harmori gets a hit landed the match totally changes and pushes Ino's sagat into the corner for continious fk which leads to a dizzy. At this point the match is very very close life wise and Harmori has made a great comeback. To finish the match Ino trys a mk ( i think ) tiger knee which is blocked and countered with a throw.

Sagat(Harmori) vs Chun Li(Ino)

With very little life left, I think Harmori wanted to get as far as he could go with his sagat considering it had very little life. Harmori played very smart in this match IMHO by playing a simple game plan of if Ino gets close push her back with crouching kicks for some breathing space. Once this happens ino trys to jump in which Harmori counter attacked with tiger uppercuts sucessfully, and continues this process intill chunli has enough life to be finished off with a nice rolling fireball super (powered up) to finish off. In this match I think it was very bad for Ino because there wasen't to much he could do to get in close to do some damage to sagat because of his range.

Sagat(Harmori) vs Blanka(Ino)

Nothing at all to this match, Sagat throws out a bad random FK which Blanka rolls at a perfect time for the easy throw to finish off Sagat finally.

to be continued later

DaDesiCanadian

06-12-2002, 08:42 PM

Heres a matchup:

K-Bison vs K-Sagat

Ok, usually i can hold Sagat down with scissor kicks pressure, but once he starts pressuring with the low jumps, im helpless. I cant even trade with any attack of mine.Also sagat can mix up those tiger knees to tiger uppercuts.. Any suggestions??

SoleEMU

06-12-2002, 10:29 PM

Chippy

06-13-2002, 09:24 AM

Amazing thread, and I've got a few things to ask.

1) What's an easy way just to get matches onto tape? Just go straight record onto VHS? If so, what's an easy way to get that kind of stuff online? Cause we've got some great saved matches that we don't want to delete/want to show off. =P

2) This is just from my ignorance, because I should know, but I keep hearing that Habiki beats Shoto and Blanka, but I'm not seeing how. So:

Habiki (N) vs. Shoto (any groove)
Habiki (N) vs. Blanka (any groove)

3) Results of Habiki vs. Hamarou: This is a phuky match when played out at high skill. If you are Hamarou, you want to stay away from your fierces. The slow amount of lag time either allows Habiki to jab him out of it or KKK into fun stuff. The major problem is that Habiki is able to pick it in up close, but it also able to range the hell out of you... If you are Hamarou, you need to actually keep alot of pressure on her and use the s.MP. That's his only reliable distance poke against Habiki. Everything else she gets around. Try to rush in, keep it low with your Jabs and do some confusion with the top down special.

Also, this is where the fake fireball actually comes in handy. Habiki has a problem with ground fireballs, so she either has to use the groove defense (roll, parry, J-D) or jump over it... unless she blocks, when then you get to move into her. With this in mind, Habiki doesn't like blocking that shit and tries to get around it. So, every now and then do a fake. The recovery time allows you to completely prepare for what she's doing and school her.

Also, if she's trying to rush you down, don't forget the c.FP. That should keep the game on the group a little better, because if either of you jump, the other one basically gets a free hit (unless there is a groove defense like in C, P, or K). You just have to stay on her, because if she's in her best range, Hamarou just takes a beating. C groove helps with Hamarou in jumping in, but I don't think that it's the best tactic still....

Chipmunk
Abuser of the Yuri Trap - A work in progress
Member of the Ugandan Navy

Koopsta

06-13-2002, 12:02 PM

WUZ THE BIZZNESS TRU PLAYAZ CAN I JOIN THIS CYPHA??

AIIGHT THEN

help me out..

Me
MAKI (c-groove) vs M. Bison (any groove)

&

Athena (c-groove) vs Iori (any groove)

thanks

Gouki-Worshiper

06-13-2002, 12:37 PM

Originally posted by Chippy
Amazing thread, and I've got a few things to ask.

1) What's an easy way just to get matches onto tape? Just go straight record onto VHS? If so, what's an easy way to get that kind of stuff online? Cause we've got some great saved matches that we don't want to delete/want to show off. =P

2) This is just from my ignorance, because I should know, but I keep hearing that Habiki beats Shoto and Blanka, but I'm not seeing how. So:

Habiki (N) vs. Shoto (any groove)
Habiki (N) vs. Blanka (any groove)

3) Results of Habiki vs. Hamarou: This is a phuky match when played out at high skill. If you are Hamarou, you want to stay away from your fierces. The slow amount of lag time either allows Habiki to jab him out of it or KKK into fun stuff. The major problem is that Habiki is able to pick it in up close, but it also able to range the hell out of you... If you are Hamarou, you need to actually keep alot of pressure on her and use the s.MP. That's his only reliable distance poke against Habiki. Everything else she gets around. Try to rush in, keep it low with your Jabs and do some confusion with the top down special.

Also, this is where the fake fireball actually comes in handy. Habiki has a problem with ground fireballs, so she either has to use the groove defense (roll, parry, J-D) or jump over it... unless she blocks, when then you get to move into her. With this in mind, Habiki doesn't like blocking that shit and tries to get around it. So, every now and then do a fake. The recovery time allows you to completely prepare for what she's doing and school her.

Also, if she's trying to rush you down, don't forget the c.FP. That should keep the game on the group a little better, because if either of you jump, the other one basically gets a free hit (unless there is a groove defense like in C, P, or K). You just have to stay on her, because if she's in her best range, Hamarou just takes a beating. C groove helps with Hamarou in jumping in, but I don't think that it's the best tactic still....

Chipmunk
Abuser of the Yuri Trap - A work in progress
Member of the Ugandan Navy

1) My friend just got a Mini DV Camcorder and its REALLY easy to get it on the computer. Just hook up the camcorder to the VCR and hook up the DC through the VCR. Turn on record and boom. Then use a program like Adobe Premiere or something that comes with your camcorder to get it in video. Then download Virtual Dub to encode it small enough to download and you're all set.

2) Its Hibiki, not Habiki. And Haohmaru.

Abuser of the Yuri trap? Pressuring with Yuri was one of my main strats back in CVS1 days, jchen style. I actually played Beni, Yuri, Cammy, and Blanka after seeing the vids of his solid pressure game. Benu, Yuri, and Cammy are my main pressure chars still in CVS2 but Yuri is a LOT less effective with rolling and parrying and such. Just check the title under my name and you know I'm all about the Yuri pressure :)

tsj76

06-13-2002, 01:00 PM

Originally posted by Chippy
Amazing thread, and I've got a few things to ask.

1) What's an easy way just to get matches onto tape? Just go straight record onto VHS? If so, what's an easy way to get that kind of stuff online? Cause we've got some great saved matches that we don't want to delete/want to show off. =P

2) This is just from my ignorance, because I should know, but I keep hearing that Habiki beats Shoto and Blanka, but I'm not seeing how. So:

Habiki (N) vs. Shoto (any groove)
Habiki (N) vs. Blanka (any groove)

3) Results of Habiki vs. Hamarou: This is a phuky match when played out at high skill. If you are Hamarou, you want to stay away from your fierces. The slow amount of lag time either allows Habiki to jab him out of it or KKK into fun stuff. The major problem is that Habiki is able to pick it in up close, but it also able to range the hell out of you... If you are Hamarou, you need to actually keep alot of pressure on her and use the s.MP. That's his only reliable distance poke against Habiki. Everything else she gets around. Try to rush in, keep it low with your Jabs and do some confusion with the top down special.

Also, this is where the fake fireball actually comes in handy. Habiki has a problem with ground fireballs, so she either has to use the groove defense (roll, parry, J-D) or jump over it... unless she blocks, when then you get to move into her. With this in mind, Habiki doesn't like blocking that shit and tries to get around it. So, every now and then do a fake. The recovery time allows you to completely prepare for what she's doing and school her.

Also, if she's trying to rush you down, don't forget the c.FP. That should keep the game on the group a little better, because if either of you jump, the other one basically gets a free hit (unless there is a groove defense like in C, P, or K). You just have to stay on her, because if she's in her best range, Hamarou just takes a beating. C groove helps with Hamarou in jumping in, but I don't think that it's the best tactic still....

Chipmunk
Abuser of the Yuri Trap - A work in progress
Member of the Ugandan Navy

Err...great anylasis. Would you slap me if I said that what I posted was an example...

randomcelestial

06-13-2002, 01:44 PM

Haohmaru vs. Hibiki.

Let's put both characters into grooves into the best for them: N and K.

This is a very difficult matchup for Hibiki. Most of the time you get matched for pokes and Haoh's slightly longer range is the decision. However, you have qcf+P, which seriously is what keeps Hibiki in this match. Basically, Hibiki needs to stand on the outskirts and slash at any whiffs, or get a cross-up and stay on the inside. Problem is, Haohmaru can poke through running jabs and stuff, so it's not all that safe.

Once Hibiki is inside, the range difference isn't too big. Haohmaru's c.LK and c.LP still make life difficult. I live to aim for a Strong into overhead into a super to deal most of my damage.

For either character, a JD = momentum in poking. That rocks.

tsj76

06-13-2002, 02:51 PM

Hoahmaru (C-Groove) vs. Hibiki (Any groove)

First off, Hoahmaru is better with dashing than running. His move start up is slow so why would he run up to an opponent and then have a lag before the move starts? Dashing is the better option. I'd play some serious turtle in this match. I play a mix with him normally, but I would definately stay on defense the whole match. QCF +p is easily negated. Stay at the end of the move's range. And when your opponent does it, jump straight up into the air (even better if you have small jump, unfortunately I wouldn't) and come down like this: In air mp, c.lk, c.lk, c.mp. The c. mp will knock your opponent down. If all four hits don't connect, if the c.mp gets blocked, backdash. He has one of the fastest backdashes in the game. You could also come down and do a standing.fp but that's not going to give you max damage because she isn't as far away as she could be. (The further away your opponent is, the more damage they recieve.) I agree with the person who said to use the fake tornado. One of the few matches I actually do use it in.

I try to stay away when playing Hibiki. Do not roll through her supers if you are going to play keep away. She''l recover before you and you'll get hit. Getting in too close (esp. against an S or P Groove player) will get you killed. If I see an opening I'll get in, use the punch throw and backdash out. The punch throw keeps your opponent on the ground for the same amount of time as if they had used delayed get up. I say edge goes to a turtle Hoahmaru in this one.

Grenade Falcon

06-13-2002, 08:07 PM

I'd really like to know why people say Rugal has a hard time against Vega and Bison (US).

PSX

06-14-2002, 06:17 PM

Originally posted by DaDesiCanadian
Heres a matchup:

K-Bison vs K-Sagat

Ok, usually i can hold Sagat down with scissor kicks pressure, but once he starts pressuring with the low jumps, im helpless. I cant even trade with any attack of mine.Also sagat can mix up those tiger knees to tiger uppercuts.. Any suggestions??

Ok this is a good match.

It can actually go either way but i think sagat got the advantage only by a slim margin.

Ok here is how bison needs to fight sagat seeing your both in K its kinda hard cause of the JD.

First off bison needs to cross him up with forward kick. Sagat got little to no answers for cross ups and seriouslly bisons cross up ability is pretty good. Also bisons guard crush ability is almost the best in the game. So i would advise a lot of cross ups when the oppertunity persist it self .

Next the number 1 thing your going to need to do is anti air sagat. If he low jumps and kicks you to death bisons crouching fierce can snuff all sagats jump in attacks clean. And i mean clean they win all the time. This shuts down sagats low jumping game and he cant jd on a low jump.

Next if sagat normal jumps trying to bait a JD be very very careful. Some sagat players know they cant low jump so they test there JD ability by doing this. My advice if you got to hit him then alternate between crouching fierce and standing fierce. Crouching is the better choice but mixing them up throws there timing off a little bit and anything to mess there JD attempts up is a + and a must.

The number 1 rule is dont jump kick sagat cause bison owns him on the ground , but sagat owns bison in the air. If you jump in with bison , sagat can just jump straight up and fierce you out of the sky. So try not to go into jumping battles with sagat it will be the wrong attack method in this battle.

Overall those are the primary keys to work with in this battle in my opinion and I think you just need to intergrate that into your play style.

Geronimo

06-14-2002, 06:26 PM

Can someone give me adivice on:
any groove - Vega vs. A - M. Bison

I just can't get anywhere with this one. All of Vega's attacks out prioritize everything M.Bison has, it's just not right. I win this, but then I'm left with almost no health left. Help me...

Thanks in advance.

- Geronimo

PSX

06-14-2002, 06:26 PM

Originally posted by Burghy
I'll bite!

Branka (N-groove) vs M Bison (psycho, C-groove)

My main problem is his ridiculous jump priority. I can't even beat his j. RH with st. fierce or RH. What's up with that?

If I can rushdown him and he doesn't have a L3 on hand, then I usually win. But if he keeps me away jumping all over the place and doing randomly well placed knee presses, then I get slowly drained until I die a horrible death. Who has the Theory Fighter advantage in this matchup?

Branka (N-groove) vs Mai (C-groove)

Okay, I suck, I admit it. But I can't seem to stop J. RH, crossup LK interspersed with random annoying fan tosses. What should Branka do? hop fierce a lot, or something? I know Mai isn't supposed to be top tier, but I'm having a lot of trouble getting past this.

Ok lets start off with this Blanka vs Bison. One of my personal favorite matches. I think blanka wins this one 60/40. The key to this match is making bison have as little options to come in on you as possible.

How do we accomplish this?

1. Crouching strong for blanka snuffs out bisons flip kicks. Lot of bison players love to set the range just out of blankas counter hit range when he blocks. I Learned that if you throw crouching strong out he will beat the scissor kicks clean if dont early or on reaction. Now if it aint on reaction and you were late on doing crouching strong to bison the worst scenario is you trade hits. The funny thing is your crouching strong will do more to bison. So after a while of doing that I think bison will learn to drop the scissor kicks on blanka. Congragulations you just eliminated one of his key ground game attacks.

2. Now that bison dont got scissor kicks for his ground game he is left with standing forward , strong and slides. Now all these can be taken care of with crouching fierce wich has longer range then all bisons attack. So as soon as bisons in territory throw one of there to keep him back and from getting in to do things.

3.Bisons new approach is jump in on you. This is easily delt with. Blanks straight up and fierce him. Dont jump at him. This is blankas best air to air counter or anti air. This will make bison have to do JD you or come up with something cause you just eliminated his air space.

Those 3 tactics work wonders on bison with blanka and try them out im sure they will help you out.

Chippy

06-14-2002, 07:36 PM

Gokui_Worshipper and all those laughing at me grammer :P - Ya, I know that Habiki is spelled Hibiki and other characters are spelled differently, but when I type, I go off of what my mind tells me, and unfortunately I learned to pronounce her as Habiki, not Hibiki. :P So, I just have a bad habit of spelling names.

As for the Yuri Trap, it's not like the trap from CvS1, although the term trap still applies. The problem is that I'm not finished with her yet... I still need to finish the entire strategy off, and my lack of 100% perfect execution is keeping me from the final finish off. But, I will be posting the strat soon, and hopefully if I can't finish it, someone else can. I just want to work on it a little more before I annouce it off. It's just a weird trap/pressure thing.

WHAT Hibki vs. Haoh was just an example? :falls over: Ah vell, hopefully it was good. Haoh in K does change some things with K groove making some other moves safe, but I still believe that Hibiki has the upper hand. Haoh has to stick to her, but once shes in her range, she starts kik'n his azz like a nerd at a Jock Party. Bitchslap left and right. At least, that's what I've seen.

Well, here's my random input on some of the other matchups, at least from what I've seen.

Vega vs. Bison: This is a funky match, but I belive that Vega has the upper hand overall. His claw just gets in Bison's way alot, and his flips just help him get out of pressure routines. The way Vega hops around and pokes with that damn claw, I've seen him out-prioritize Bison on alot of moves. But, once Bison applies enough pressure and knocks that claw off, the momentum changes drastically into Bison's Favor because he no longer has that Claw to worry about. That's the time Bison has to get his damage in why guarding the fallen claw, because once Vega gets his Claw back, its all that priority poking all over again.

Rugal vs. Vega or Bison: I think it's because Rugal just doesn't have enough priority in the match. Vega's Claw is just packed with the shit, while Bison's pressure routines just keep him locked down. Rugal's only chance is to have 3 level 1's and just combo level 1 through the match, because the rest of the time he's gettin' smacked.

Hope my advice helps.

Chipmunk
Abuser of the Yuri Trap - A work in progress
Member of the Ugandan Navy
I NEED A FRICK'N MASS STICK

FLipFloP

06-15-2002, 07:59 AM

How bout...

Shoto Vs N-Athena

Damn.. FP of hers..

Burghy

06-15-2002, 10:17 AM

First of all, thank you psx2000! The Branka tips really helped me a lot. I didn't realise how much his cr. strong owned. And I experimented a bit and low jump fierce shuts down both Bison's d,u+K and his jump attacks.

For shotos vs N-athena, I play a bit of Ryu but I'm not the best. Anyway, you should do low jump with short. This beats her cr fierce. Once you do that then there goes 99% of Athena's game, so just hit her a lot with punches and kicks.

Don't try to psychic DP her low fierce. It's not worth it. Also, your optimum hadoken range is just right for her to low fierce you, so don't do that either.

NIN_CrimzinTerry

06-15-2002, 12:53 PM

i thought bison takes out vega??? weird maybe thats just me...

KOOPSTA...dude maki vs. bison is a very difficult match for maki...maki's c.fp is a HELLA good anti air and will probably out prioritize or trade with bison...maki's s.fp will also cause some trouble for bison...if you can space maki's cross up really well then cross bison up a lot, he has trouble dealing with cross ups...i would say maki would have to turtle a lot in this match up to win...just wait for the jump in c.fp if bison tries to play ground game s. fp...its hard though, also when you got bison a little worried after out prioritizing some of his moves, you might want to consider rushing him down playing some low high games with her run, going in for the cross ups and what not...hopes this help...

alrighty

im outi

Roberth

tsj76

06-16-2002, 07:03 PM

Here's one that's killing me.

Akuma (C-Groove) vs. Zangief (K-Groove)

Need HELP!!!

znzf

06-16-2002, 07:21 PM

someone help me with
c-ryu/ken/akuma vs c-hoamaru

i don't know how to fight him. that annoying c.lp x2 into his overhead is hard to see, i guess i could block high more vs hoahmaru but i'm not sure if that's the right thing to do

also

c-blanka vs n-yamasaki
i dont' know how that matchup works especially when yama has meter

tsj76

06-16-2002, 07:38 PM

znzf: Rush it down. Seriously. Most people play poke with Hoahmaru. If a person constantrly rushes in they get overwhelmed. I really don't feel like going into specifics. But Hoahmaru's moves are kind of slow. So if you don't get stuck in his pokes and keep coming at him, you should be straight. I play Hoahmaru (esp.), Ken, and Akuma (esp.) So try to overwhelm him. Just something, with Akuma, to get you in safely sometimes. Jump in air fireball and follow with whatever.

qUiCkStRiKe

06-16-2002, 09:06 PM

heres one yuri vs balrog(claw)... wut do u think of this match up...
i've seen yuri put up a good fight against him... her shield stops his jump ins good... lemme see wut u guys think...

Koopsta

06-17-2002, 07:12 AM

Originally posted by NIN_CrimzinTerry
i thought bison takes out vega??? weird maybe thats just me...

KOOPSTA...dude maki vs. bison is a very difficult match for maki...maki's c.fp is a HELLA good anti air and will probably out prioritize or trade with bison...maki's s.fp will also cause some trouble for bison...if you can space maki's cross up really well then cross bison up a lot, he has trouble dealing with cross ups...i would say maki would have to turtle a lot in this match up to win...just wait for the jump in c.fp if bison tries to play ground game s. fp...its hard though, also when you got bison a little worried after out prioritizing some of his moves, you might want to consider rushing him down playing some low high games with her run, going in for the cross ups and what not...hopes this help...

alrighty

im outi

Roberth

Thanks dawg....I know how to defeat bison to the fullest...but not with maki. But that helped alot..seriously...

Apoc

06-17-2002, 08:54 AM

PSX2000:I just wanted to compliment the few breakdowns you've done in this thread. There is always change in the future and new strats learned, but you take your steps smoothly. For me to explain those things it would take me a few pages:P Nice job here tho:) Really nice.

Apoc.

TrueNewbiePR

06-17-2002, 09:18 AM

what about rolento vs sagat?
eagle vs blanka?
maki vs sagat?
akuma vs shoto or any snk char

tsj76

06-17-2002, 10:56 AM

Originally posted by TrueNewbiePR

akuma vs shoto or any snk char

You need to post what groove you are using for all of your match ups. Secondly, Akuma vs. any SNK character" is not a match we can help you with. No one is going to sit down and go through "Akuma vs. the whole roster" with you. Please, Pick "Akuma vs. SOMEBODY." The SNK characters aren't all the same.

Burghy

06-17-2002, 08:11 PM

Eagle vs Blanka

Since you didn't specify grooves, I'm going to assume it's S-Eagle vs A-Blanka.

What do you do as Eagle? Well, Blanka has good jump-ins (fierce, roundhouse), and good pokes in cr fierce, slide, cr roundhouse, cr strong, st strong, and cr forward.

You can punish blocked blankaballs with st fierce or hcf+MK.

Anyway, you must realise that as Eagle, you must USE STICKS. Don't forget that you have sticks. YOUR STICKS ARE YOUR GREATEST ASSET. Hit Blanka with sticks. Beating with sticks. Hit him with the sticks a lot of times, and he will die.

Moves not to use: DP+P, QCB+K.
Moves to use: qcf+MP, HCF+MK in combos, QCB+P against crossup MK. Also, use cr. MP, st fierce, and cr fierce.

Note that all your best moves involve using your sticks. I repeat, USE YOUR STICKS. Hit him with your sticks.

UnCauzi

06-17-2002, 10:04 PM

Okay, I doubt I'm going to get much feedback asides from "You lose!" But how about...

K groove Raiden vs C groove Guile
K groove Chang vs C groove Guile
K groove Zangief vs C groove Blanka

gratzi

Oh and lastly
K groove Geese vs K groove Zangief

mark111

06-18-2002, 12:21 AM

kzangief vs cblanka. what is zangief going to do if blanka spins back and fard the hole game?

Chippy

06-18-2002, 09:32 AM

Akuma vs. Zangief: Ahahahaha! I know this one because of Cantrip... Basic Akuma loses with the main K-Zangief Strat, but a GOOD akuma will be able to win. Akuma's pressure routines always mix things up, you can throw timings off with the air-fireball in and out, and the demon-flip becomes a major asset when you do the thow, because he's not going to hit you back... he'll just sit there.

The fact that Zangief has very little mobility while Akuma has ALL THE FRICKIN' MOBILITY IN THE WORLD gives him the major advantage. You just have to constantly do different things so that he can't always time the JD-Throw. The fireballs, while they would give him bar by JD, allow you to setup your pressure routine, do your damage, and then get the hell out. And, at least from what I've seen, Gief is a sucker for the Instant Hell Murder... But then again, this is what I've seen.

Chipmunk

randomcelestial

06-18-2002, 10:17 AM

K-Bison vs. Anything but P/K-Sagat

This is definately been a matchup in Bison's favor, IMO, in my experience from the Midwest.

Bison's standing jab in a running groove is too good against Sagat. You can seriously walk/run upto Sagat and do continuous jabs, and then eventually run in c.short, c.short, c.forward XX short scissor kick or tick throw. Does anyone else do/see this from your area?

randomcelestial

06-18-2002, 10:23 AM

Vs. Haohmaru

I think the biggest concern with Hoahmaru is the lack of knowledge on how to fight him. Vega, Blanka, Yamazaki, Rolento, Cammy and Sagat can all fight him 60/40 or better (Viscant says Haohmaru counters Guile, although I've never tested it). I think M. Bison is 50/50.

Haohmaru basically can c.short x2, c. jab s. medium, or just c. short x3 and most characters have difficultly getting out of this. Blanka can back-hop out of it, and Cammy and Sagat can DP, but the majority of the cast needs to sit and get guard-crushed. First tip: stay out of his guard-crush (c.jab/c.short) range!

Haohmaru can't defend from the air very well. His c. Fierce is flimsy, although it's perfect low-jump defense. Just go for cross-ups with Cammy/Blanka and Haohmaru needs to just block. After a cross-up, a close short-jump can keep you on the offensive. Just remember, anything with a gap in the timing can be poked through by Haohmaru, so don't get greedy with run-in pokes!

His overhead can be stuffed on reaction with an attack. You should be blocking high anyway if you didn't beat it; it's not that difficult to see. If you're really worried, just play P/K and counter his attacks with hits or momentum swings respectively.

SoleEMU

06-18-2002, 06:22 PM

Hey...

Does anyone have any strats or tips for iori/rock/chunli (n or k groove) against Nakoruru and Vega? :wtf:

These two seem to allways stop me dead :bluu:

i've tried low jumping, fireballs, DPs... even roll canceling! :lame:
still can't get through

Thx in advance...

SoleEMU

Cheezy Rice

06-18-2002, 08:51 PM

The threads going great so far psx2000. I think ima be a poser and do the same thing for MvC2 if you don't mind because I blow at CvS2 and can actually help out at MvC2.

PSX

06-19-2002, 07:26 AM

This is begining to be one of my favorite threads to read thru every day.

Love the different views and matches that are brought up.

The debates are good and the theories and strats are excellent.

Love the interesting matchups to.

Gouki-Worshiper

06-19-2002, 09:54 AM

vs Cammy

General
----------

Her basic poke game consists of c.short, s.short, c.forward, s.roundhouse, s.fierce. Watch out for the s.fierce as it can link into the s.roundhouse and both these normals have great priority.

Block low and look for an opening to exploit.

Learn which moves can punish a short cannon spike (her biggest asset). Grounding Cammy and keeping her out of s.roundhouse range pretty much kills her. In any groove that is weak in the air (N, A, S), punish her the second you see her get off the ground. Her Cannon Strike can be a good way for her to mix up her poking game so you'll want to stop her there. A smart Cammy will actually jump backwards a bit before doing it, essentially being safe.

Her cross-over can lead to some big combos (co -> c.short -> s.short -> roundhouse cannon spike, and many other variations) so srk/trade/roll outta that because short of poking games, thats where all the damage will come from.

Don't jump over her when she has meter (reverse shaft breaker) and don't make yourself vulnerable when you're in spin drive smasher range. Cammy doesn't really depend on super arts though so she may just be acting as a pressure battery as well (similar to Yuri).

If you're playing someone who roll cancels, watch out. A roll cancelled short cannon drill is a mean thing.

Ideally, you want to zone her with a good range/counter character (Eagle does well, as does Yamazaki). Cammy with meter can actually give Sagat a decent challenge (not a lot still, but not bad) but Blanka has a good advantage over her and its an uphill battle. Cammy also has the mobility to give Vega/Balrog a good challenge.

C-groove specific
------------

Cammy gets a bonus from air guard and her super cancels are pretty decent and make her super arts worth using just a bit more.

With air guard she can safely get closer to you (where she wants to be) and start chipping away at you.

If the person you're playing is basically stupid and rolls with Cammy close to you in any non-safe manner, exploit it. Cammy has a horrible roll and should only be used in certain situations (which I'm sure you all know).

A-groove specific
------------

Fear her custom combo. Its possibly the easiest way for her to do the most damage. Basically watch for it and don't get hit by it.

P-groove specific
------------

Cammy can really shine in this groove. She doesn't have a roll, but her roll sucked anyway. She gains short jump which is great for her pressure game and parry, which alllows her to open the holes needed to really do damage, as well as safely jump in.

She should be unpredicably short hopping at you with short/trying cross-over on you while being prepared for a parry.

S-groove specific
------------

Cammy can be pretty mean in this one with dodges. dodge -> dodge -> whatever. I don't really play S-groove Cammy but I've seen some mean ones.

She does gain a LOT from run though. Run lets her do some sick pressure games, and that along with her short jump abilities makes her pretty tough.

N-groove specific
------------

Similar to S-groove in that she can pressure short jump and run, but she also gets the MAX bonus so her pressure game gains some damage capabilities. Ideally she would want to be in MAX mode as much as possible.

K-groove specific
-----------

This is probably Cammy's worst groove. JD really gets her nowhere as it doesn't give her much chance to continue her attacks. Granted she still has short jump and run like S and N but she can't be RAGE'd as much as she can be MAX'd in N and bouncing around JD'ing in the air doesn't help her pressure game any.

If anyone wants some: Cammy, Beni, Iori, Rugal matchups I'll write some more specifics. Hope this is useful.

randomcelestial

06-20-2002, 09:02 PM

Iori (N) vs. Sagat (It doesn't matter).

This is seriously, really, really hard for me. I need some advice, although this is what I do:

Poke with fireballs. Roll in trying to get past C. Fierce. Low jump roundhouse. RC his dashing punches through fierces.

Is there anything else to this besides laying down and losing?

SoleEMU

06-20-2002, 11:51 PM

Originally posted by randomcelestial
Iori (N) vs. Sagat (It doesn't matter).

This is seriously, really, really hard for me. I need some advice, although this is what I do:

Poke with fireballs. Roll in trying to get past C. Fierce. Low jump roundhouse. RC his dashing punches through fierces.

Is there anything else to this besides laying down and losing?

Iori's hcb+K goes through his high fireball

rolling, then lk, qcb+P(X3) is usually good when he does a low fireball, or wiffs an uppercut.

As for the cFierce :fury:, I usually can trade with a standing roundhouse. :wtf:

keep playing footsies, and when you hit go for the qcb+P(X3). :rolleyes:

And don't forget the maiden masher does go through all fireballs and is great AA! :D

randomcelestial

06-21-2002, 08:56 AM

Umm,

roll, Lp+ QCBx3 isn't a valid tactic against Sagat.

What can I do besides playing guessing games where the risk is higher than the reward? I know how to use Iori against most characters, I know his basic pokes and strats, just what does he do to Sagat?

Grenade Falcon

06-21-2002, 09:03 AM

I know Kyosuke's ranked as the worst, but what are some matches he can actually win? As in, characters Kyosuke could probably own providing that your opponent isn't a scrub?

Mr-K

06-21-2002, 09:22 AM

Originally posted by Grenade Falcon
I know Kyosuke's ranked as the worst, but what are some matches he can actually win? As in, characters Kyosuke could probably own providing that your opponent isn't a scrub?

Kyosuke owns Dan. :D

AkAaTa

06-21-2002, 12:06 PM

A-rolento vs A-Nak... i get crossed up SO MUCH!

tsj76

06-21-2002, 01:24 PM

(C-Groove) Rock vs. (C-Groove) Iori

yk808

06-21-2002, 02:48 PM

Actually Kyosuke is a very good character, you just have to be EXTRMEMLY CAREFUL, and know when to back off. I think he is best is S groove, though that leads to problems when he is rushed down, or N groove cuz he need the run and level 1s. He can also work in A, but don't unless you can do his aa custom (launch, lowfiercexxroll, [low fierce, high fierce xx roll]x3~4, then whatever i guess...).

Against K or P groove (or a groove without a roll, at least), you rely on running fierce xx into a his crosscutter. Which button depends on the distance you are at, or what you exspect them to do. You have to anticipate a lot with Kyosuke... Once you get them in the corner, you keep pressuring them with the run fierce, but mix it up with a run dodge xx fierce xx fireball, low forward, low jabs xx overhead, low jabs then throw, and a jump in and last second air fireball thing, lowjump anything (they all suck anyway...). Those last 2 shouldn't be used much... If you are in the red, the run up to a suitable range (its different for each character. go experiment), then super fireball. then superfireball, then super fireball,so much so that the block stun pretty much runs all together. Then cheese them to death. If teh take the hit, pause then repeat the supers. If they parry (they only need to parry once), they can get out however, thats why you want to make them block first. If you anticipate a parry on their getup, use his pillar-thing super then jump up and air kick super. And thats about it for that.

Against grooves with roll, you lose. well not always, but you have to be very patient and anticipate a lot. you can't rush them, except with the fierce (don't fireball! unless you think they will jump then jab fireball). his main aa is low fierce, stand forward, and late df rh (launch). If you have supers, then do his pillar-thing early. Your whole job during this match is to make sure they stay the hell away. This is best done with his fireballs at the right ranges. Learn the range and HEIGHT of each of his strength fireballs!

Other than that, you almost automatically lose. Just hope you have really good back up characters. btw, this is all at ratio 1, his optimum ratio (he does very little damage, even at ratio4, but ship is always the same, so at least ratio 1 doesn't waste space.)

oh yeah, kyosuke's other main job on the team is to drain the opponents super meter. He does this being so annoying the only way to kill hiim is to level 3 super is pansy ass. This however does not work well against K groove, or S, but is nice against P.

They best way to play kyosuke is to not take him, or play rival schools, where he is a good character.

Ok, I'm done now. Like anyone wanted to hear about kyosuke anyway...

And yes, I have beaten non-scrubs with him.

PSX

06-24-2002, 08:50 AM

ok im going to takle a bunch of these today anyone else want to tackle some feel free i think the more feedback the better.

Well let me throw a match out there.

Vega (C) vs Cammy (K)

tsj76

06-25-2002, 07:40 AM

Originally posted by randomcelestial
Vs. Haohmaru

I think the biggest concern with Hoahmaru is the lack of knowledge on how to fight him. Vega, Blanka, Yamazaki, Rolento, Cammy and Sagat can all fight him 60/40 or better (Viscant says Haohmaru counters Guile, although I've never tested it). I think M. Bison is 50/50.

Haohmaru basically can c.short x2, c. jab s. medium, or just c. short x3 and most characters have difficultly getting out of this. Blanka can back-hop out of it, and Cammy and Sagat can DP, but the majority of the cast needs to sit and get guard-crushed. First tip: stay out of his guard-crush (c.jab/c.short) range!

Haohmaru can't defend from the air very well. His c. Fierce is flimsy, although it's perfect low-jump defense. Just go for cross-ups with Cammy/Blanka and Haohmaru needs to just block. After a cross-up, a close short-jump can keep you on the offensive. Just remember, anything with a gap in the timing can be poked through by Haohmaru, so don't get greedy with run-in pokes!

His overhead can be stuffed on reaction with an attack. You should be blocking high anyway if you didn't beat it; it's not that difficult to see. If you're really worried, just play P/K and counter his attacks with hits or momentum swings respectively.

Shhh...you're telling people how to beat me. :D Good strats. Now, anti-these anti-Hoahmaru strats.

Yamakazi, Vega (Claw), Rolento, and Cammy give Hoahmaru the biggest problem. The first, beacuse of his reach. The latter three because of their speed. To all you guys getting owned by Hoahmaru here's something that'll probably help you out, I'm going to be sorry I said this because I'm going to start getting whupped, but HE IS SLOW! If you can take advantage of the lag on his moves, you have a great shot. This DOES NOT mean rush him down. A good Hoahmaru will kill you if you try to rush in. I'm just saying pick your shots carefully. Cammy is especially a problem because he Hoahmaru doesn't have a "solid" anti air attack. His DP is risky, and so is d.fierce. One of the best things you can do against a jump is jump straight up and either lp or mp, depending on where your opponent is. (Lp slashes forward, mp slashes at a slight downward angle.) I've traded with Eagle doing this, but hit everybody else.

Randomcelestial ponited out a problem that Hoahmaru players have that gets taken advantage of. You don't "jump in" per se with Hoahmaru. (Like you would jump in with a Shoto.) He has reach, you "jump in front of." That means you jump just far enough so that the tip of the sword connects, but his body doesn't. I know that sounds kind of retarted but listen. The range of a jumping mp is actually a little less than the crouching lp. Plus you'll be jumpng forward. So this means that if you jump in front of you opponent with mp, you can still do the c.lp X3, c.mp knockdown combo. Jump in, slash the opponent IN THE FACE. (That's important too, knowing when to hit the button. To early and you'll miss, to late and you'll hit, but probably get blasted on.) And then procede with aformentioned combo.

vs. Sagat. Stay out of his range. They can't use the godlike d. fierce if they aren't in range right? Stay just outside the range of it, so your opponent will attempt it, and when he whiffs. Standing fierce. DON'T try to anticipate the punch and slash before the punch. You'll get punched in the foot. Wait until his arm is extended all the way, then hit the button. You'll catch him just before he can do anything (like block). And if you miss, Sagat can not hit your sword. So if his doesn't throw a projectile, you can block or backdash to safety. Don't try to get in too close, you'll get Dp'd. Just stay out if his range, but keep within your dash range just in case. Hoah dashes really fast. Esp. his backdash. Don't try to trade pokes, please. I learned this the hard way so learn from my beatdowns. It ain't gonna happen. Get in, get 3 or 4 small hits. Get out. Don't spend the whole match looking for the money shot against Sagat, odds are it won't come anyway.

I think someone said this already, but try to guardbreak with lp only. Anything else is too slow, and you'll miss your very small window of opportunity. That's one gripe I have about this game, the guard crush window on A3 was much longer.

jae hoon

06-25-2002, 09:18 AM

hmm well here is my biggest problem c groove joe vs bison(american) any groove

Rolling Start

06-25-2002, 09:56 AM

I would like some help with S-Balrog vs C-Cammy. I have a lot of trouble with people who low poke alot with Balrog, and Cammy is pretty much the queen at this, so how would you recommend beating her? S-Zangief vs C-Cammy as well, in fact.

EvilRyu10585

06-27-2002, 10:49 AM

i really need some help in these matchups

c yamazaki vs c cammy / c/a chun li / c sagat (turtle)/ p athena p hibiki p hahomaru

c kyo vs sagat in general

thnak you in advance

Gouki-Worshiper

06-27-2002, 12:44 PM

Yama against Cammy...

In the last tournament I used C groove and N groove and depended on rolling just a bit too much. Got me killed against more skilled players. Since the tournament I have been using P groove exclusively. And while my CVS2 parrying skills aren't yet up to what I want them to be (I'm one of the best 3S parryers I know), it's really helped me get around such matchups as this.

Simple example, trying to get close to Mai. Granted this isn't as complex as trying to get close to Sagat (although if you can parry the Tiger Uppercut you've put a HUGE damper on his anti-air game) but its just an example. Mai's flame-on move (where she sets herself on fire) is a pretty good anti-air. It'll trade/hit many air moves and can't be air-blocked. This could be an issue for some characters. With P groove you can just jump-in, parry, parry, and B&B to SA with no problems.

Now for this matchup, a similar but opposite occurance is happening. Yama wants to get Cammy in a position where he can either:

- B&B combo (either one, knife or slash)
- SA
- Keep her at a distance and hurt her from there

C groove Yama doesn't really gain much against Cammy (except a super cancel). She should NOT be rolling pretty much ever and she doesn't really have any roll-through moves that she'll be tossing out. She just wants to get in and poke to B&B and punish any mistakes you make. So I would push for P groove here to gain an advantage and put you in the position to achieve the three aforementioned goals. Your roll IS better than hers so if you either see her roll or do a fk or rh cannon drill you could rol land punish if you're at the right distance and fast enough. If you stick with C groove, you'll be concetrating on doing three things:

- Don't get thrown
- Keep Cammy out of the air
- Watch out for Cannon Drills

Cammy will be doing her best to get in and poke you to B&B/SA. Blocking low and keeping her out of the air are key here (her only overheads will come from the air). Her ideal distance is about s.fp distance and you'll either want to keep her at s.rh distance or greater. If she's keeping you at the distance she wants she'll be able to just hop and throw you so be on the lookout for those. That's about it. Good luck.

EvilRyu10585

06-27-2002, 05:53 PM

Thanks for the help could anyone tell me the safest poke to use against cammy with yamazaki and what can kyo do to a turtling sagat?

Omar, the lamer

06-27-2002, 07:27 PM

How about this match...... Sagat vs. Rolento. I say
Sagat=n-groove against Rolento=n-groove. In my opion, Rolento wins this fight. Cause it's to hard for sagat to constantly Anti-air Rolento's Jumping strong. Plus, a really good rolento can just run away for a time over.

AmakusaShiroTokisada

06-27-2002, 10:10 PM

Originally posted by Omar, the lamer
How about this match...... Sagat vs. Rolento. I say
Sagat=n-groove against Rolento=n-groove. In my opion, Rolento wins this fight. Cause it's to hard for sagat to constantly Anti-air Rolento's Jumping strong. Plus, a really good rolento can just run away for a time over.

rolento rapes sagat up the ass with his pole

Chippy

06-28-2002, 06:47 AM

Does rolento actually have a move that can counter the Tiger Uppercut? Cause I would think that would be what the Sagat Player would focus on...

"Wait for that bitch to get close... TIGER UPPERCUT!" I mean, it is a DP, so it's got butt-loads of priority. Or is rolento's pressure routine good enough to keep him down?

Chipmunk
Abuser of the Yuri Trap - A work in progress
Member of the Ugandan Navy

tsj76

06-28-2002, 07:09 AM

I say absolutely not. Not only does a Dp have two tons of priority but SAGAT'S DP has 12 tons of priority. It's been that way since A3. I've seen a really good Rolento go down to a mediocre Sagat because of c.fp and DP's. I don't think the pressure routine works against Sagat at all. I think Rolento should fake it, and make Sagat try to counter stuff that isn't actually coming. A missed DP leaves a lot of opening. Not as much with Sagat as with others because he's big and gets back to the ground faster, but enough for you to do something if you aren't caught completely off gaurd. This isn't coming out right. It's too early in the morning and I'm still tired. (I am NOT a morning person.) But somebody understands what I'm saying.

Gouki-Worshiper

06-28-2002, 10:21 AM

Yama's s.rh has good priority but I dont about it against Cammy's s.rh.

n-Rolento would get raped by n-Sagat. No air blocking, no parrying, no just defense. Basically, if Rolento went in the air Sagat would rip him out of the sky. Rolento would have to play a VERY careful game and fear c.fp. I don't see it happening.

Onikage

06-28-2002, 01:05 PM

Okay, here's a few I need help on... (names American)

A-Rolento vs K-Vega
A-Akuma vs K-Hibiki

thanks in advance.

DarthSalamander

06-28-2002, 06:13 PM

Originally posted by Gouki-Worshiper
Yama's s.rh has good priority but I dont about it against Cammy's s.rh.

n-Rolento would get raped by n-Sagat. No air blocking, no parrying, no just defense. Basically, if Rolento went in the air Sagat would rip him out of the sky. Rolento would have to play a VERY careful game and fear c.fp. I don't see it happening.

Not really. Obviously without P or K Rolento can't jump in like a fool, but he can still easily fight Sagat. If you do QCB+K you can copntrol the arc of your jump with d+forward to land early. If Sagat whiffs anything you score a knockdown with Patriot Circle or d.roundhouse. If he doesn't take the bait just jump in one time randomly with j.strong or cross up with j.forward, or use a knife to get him to start blocking, then move in. Use KKK jump since it's fast and harder to react to. Either way, you're in, and at that range s.jab will snuff c.feirce.

And if he tries tiger shots while you are far away be patient and just POW xx lvl3 that shit.

tsj76

06-28-2002, 08:17 PM

Off subject a little: You knkow what I hate. After you get beaten by someone three or 4 times and then you realize, "If I had just done (insert proper move here) I'd have won." Happened to me tonight.

This might seem like a semi-stupid one but,

C-Groove Rock vs. C-Groove Rock

BlackShinobi

06-28-2002, 08:47 PM

Blanka vs C-Mai

Chippy

06-30-2002, 11:18 AM

HOODY HOO! A match that I know because we play it every damn day!

A-Akuma vs. K-Hibiki

Ok, me nad Cantrip/Bobo have played this matchup to death... over and over and over and over. We've played this match so much, it's sickening. So, what's the match-up results?

Well, at least in our games, it's actually a slight to decent favor for Akuma. I know that everybody says Hibiki killz shoto... But not when she's in K against Akuma, especially if he is in A. Here's the breakdown.

If the Akuma is being played right, he's a moving pressure routine... period. His Air-Hyper-Fireballs allow for great pressure and setups for too many tricks, combos, and routines. Hibiki's only chance is to jump straight in the air with the right timing and use j.FP for a hit. IF HIBIKI DOES NOT DO THIS, SHE GETS SCHOOLED, EVEN IF SHE HAS BAR.

Hibiki's big problem in this matchup, IMHO, is the fact that she IS IN K. K is a good grove, don't get me wrong, but when you are fighting against Akuma you just sit there and take damage. Sure, you can just defend SOME STUFF, but all that does is keep you in the pressure routine, which is exactly where Akuma wants you to be. Sure, you get a level 3 and beef damage, but Akuma also has good run-away-while-still-applying-pressure tactics for just that case, and his A supers.... Ya, you get ownzed.

Furthermore, at least in the matches that we play, the DP hurts her too much. You only get so many openings in so many places, and that sword IS A HIT BOX FOR A DP TO HURT! Yes, Cantrip can confirm many a nights I've bitched about losing because the DP hit my sword and I got hurt, not him... over and over. Akuma also charges super EXTREMELY FAST in A (ok, I'm baised against A. The only thing A has is a roll and the super... and I hate the super... as in being used against me. Unlike any other supers in the game where there's execution and timing for the invincibility frames, A is a button-press instant-invincibility... one which Akuma can use and abuse all day long...), but his super combo can juggle a raged K-groove character until the rage is gone... Seen it happen way too many times. Completely nullifies the rage of K and then continues with the pressure routines.

But, does this mean that Hibiki sucks in this fight? Nope. Her being in K hurts her alot, IMO, though. You need the mobility to NOT BE IN HIS PRESSURE ROUTINES. In fact, in this matchup, that's the key to winning for Hibiki.

See, the biggest problem fighting Akuma is the fact that once he starts the pressure routine on you, he keeps it on you and dances around you while you take damage, chip damage or unblocked-because-you-tried-to-stop-me damage. Hibiki has to make sure that he DOESN'T GET TO START THOSE PRESSURE ROUTINES. That's why it's hard for her in K, because your normal get-out-of-jail-free card that all the other grooves have don't help... Once Akuma starts, it's extremely hard for you to break free. That's why you gotta stop them from happening in the first place.

Habiki's c.FP actually becomes good in this match, and you have to make sure that every ground fireball that he throws you school him with the QCF+FP. Once you take away his ground fireball, which is also a good move for him to start setting up the pressure routines, you gotta play with him. The DP hgives you some pain, so you hafta fake him out of it (although don't QCF+P him when he's in DP... It doesn't hit him. I think Cantrip's had about 100 of my QCF+P's miss him just because of that damned DP giving him the invincibility from it). Your QCB+P is useless unless you combo it in for an escape, especially if Akuma has you in the corner.

s.FP get's neutered in this match because the fireball smacks it and hurts you, and is basically a free-setup for Akuma. Only use it if you know that it is going to hit him and not have the fireball hit you. You also have to keep a really good eye on how he jumps. If you see him jump normally, expect the fireball usually (because it's his best jump in... "Hi, I jump in for free! YAY!"). But, if you see that bastard spin in the air, smack him with the s.FP. That is a pressure string that WILL NOT WORK ON HABIKI! You just gotta teach him that he can't use it.

Her dodge also helps some, you just gotta know when to use it. That last second get-the-hell-out-of-the-way is a lifesaver on escaping his pressure routines once they are started. It just comes down to experience on knowing exactly where to use them, because you have to use them in specific places in the pressure routine, and not mash them until you are free.

Overall, IMO, Akuma has the higher advantage in this match as compared against other shotos, but the main problem is the fact that Hibiki is in K. If she was in pretty much any other groove (besides S), she could either 1) Parry which totally shuts him down if you know what you are doing or 2) ROLL AWAY FROM HIS PRESSURE ROUTINE! That roll not only gives you invincibility, but gets you AWAY FROM HIM when he starts the pressure routines. Hbiki can still win, but she has to be more rangy than rushdown and has to be completely focused on the match, because once Akuma starts his pressure routine successfully on you, you are going to lose the match and you need to get out of it/make sure it doesn't happen.

And yes, this has been proven, seeing as how we practically play this matchup every night (except that I stray away from K now... I don't like being trapped in pressure routines).

Chipmunk
Abuser of the Yuri Trap - A work in progress
Member of the Ugandan Navy

Gouki-Worshiper

07-01-2002, 10:40 AM

Originally posted by DarthSalamander

Not really. Obviously without P or K Rolento can't jump in like a fool, but he can still easily fight Sagat. If you do QCB+K you can copntrol the arc of your jump with d+forward to land early. If Sagat whiffs anything you score a knockdown with Patriot Circle or d.roundhouse. If he doesn't take the bait just jump in one time randomly with j.strong or cross up with j.forward, or use a knife to get him to start blocking, then move in. Use KKK jump since it's fast and harder to react to. Either way, you're in, and at that range s.jab will snuff c.feirce.

And if he tries tiger shots while you are far away be patient and just POW xx lvl3 that shit.

ah, good points. i still see Sagat having a bit more of the upper hand as long as he plays solid and doesn't get baited.

Cantrip

07-01-2002, 07:22 PM

This is Chippy, BTW. Just too damn lazy to change SN's. :P

Anyways, I've put in my input alot, but there's one thing that's bugging the HELL out of me because I don't understand why. Here's the Match-up

Hibiki vs. Shoto...

Why does Hibiki win? You can throw her into N or P, doesn't matter, but everybody says Hibiki SCHOOLZ Shoto... Granted, they don't kick my azz left and right, but they still give me a problem, especially with those damned DP's. So, why does Hibiki beat shoto?

Chipmunk
Abuser of the Yuri Trap - A work in progress
Member of the Ugandan Navy

Cantrip

07-01-2002, 07:33 PM

K, this is Chippy again, but I have something that confuses me on the Rolento vs. Sagat Matchup.

The point on the fact that Rolento can focus on beating the Tiger Uppercut and still school Sagat... Well, I'm confused. See, he can, but that involves baits and other such timing things... "But Chppy, that's what a smart player is SUPPOSED to do." Well, ya, but from what I've seen and heard, Rolento is a constant pressure whore (if it's not the running away kind). So, if he's a constant pressure whore, then aren't you gaining the advantage by not allowing him to be that constant pressure whore?

I mean, pressure is what Rolento does best, but he has to STOP the pressure routine in order to bait/avoid the Tiger Uppercut (TU). Doesn't that give Sagat more of an advantage because it stops Rolento's strategy? With just the threat of the TU being there he has to not go into the full pressure routine because the TU can snag him pretty bad. And if Rolento is not in his pressure routine, that means that Sagat can walk over and beat his ass... And then when Rolento starts it up again, TU! Or am I missing something?

Don't get me wrong, Rolento doesn't get completely ownzed and can actually do damage back, but doesn't that give Sagat the upper hand overall? By denying Rolento what he does best just with the threat of the TU?

Chipmunk
Abuser of the Yuri Trap - a work in progress
Member of the Ugandan Navy

DarthSalamander

07-01-2002, 11:27 PM

Originally posted by Cantrip
K, this is Chippy again, but I have something that confuses me on the Rolento vs. Sagat Matchup.

The point on the fact that Rolento can focus on beating the Tiger Uppercut and still school Sagat... Well, I'm confused. See, he can, but that involves baits and other such timing things... "But Chppy, that's what a smart player is SUPPOSED to do." Well, ya, but from what I've seen and heard, Rolento is a constant pressure whore (if it's not the running away kind). So, if he's a constant pressure whore, then aren't you gaining the advantage by not allowing him to be that constant pressure whore?

I mean, pressure is what Rolento does best, but he has to STOP the pressure routine in order to bait/avoid the Tiger Uppercut (TU). Doesn't that give Sagat more of an advantage because it stops Rolento's strategy? With just the threat of the TU being there he has to not go into the full pressure routine because the TU can snag him pretty bad. And if Rolento is not in his pressure routine, that means that Sagat can walk over and beat his ass... And then when Rolento starts it up again, TU! Or am I missing something?

Don't get me wrong, Rolento doesn't get completely ownzed and can actually do damage back, but doesn't that give Sagat the upper hand overall? By denying Rolento what he does best just with the threat of the TU?

Chipmunk
Abuser of the Yuri Trap - a work in progress
Member of the Ugandan Navy

Not really. First off runaway rolento is good because you build meter. Letting A or C Rolento run around is not a good idea, espcially A because he starts getting free blow through whatever you do attempts. On tiger uppercuts, if Rolento is controlling the match he can just leave gaps open to bait TU. Just like how Strider/Doom can just stop for a second, do nothing, block the AAA the opponent needs to stop the trap, and then continue trapping. Same idea. If you see the Sagat player is getting all anxious and wanting to punish, you make holes in your offense purposely to make it seem like a good way time to TU, and then you punish and the Sagat player is more intimidated. If he doesn't TU, you start throwing or just go on your normal guard breaking way. Rolento can win just about any match up as l;ong as he is controlling the match, and he doesn't have to do it neccesairly by rushing down. Run away can be equally as effective.

melanthius

07-02-2002, 01:28 AM

Originally posted by znzf
c-blanka vs n-yamasaki
i dont' know how that matchup works especially when yama has meter

I have seen this matchup probably 150 times, and I honestly believe that Yamazaki totally and completely owns blanka. he outpokes blanka hands down, and if godforbid someone should blanka ball, they are either going to eat a level 3 super, or a standing roundhouse, in either case they are going to lose a lot of life. Of course, good blanka players would never throw out a blanka ball just for shits. I really don't know how blanka can fight yamazaki, all I can say is, try to time your pokes right, and go for the knockdown. Yamazaki has very little he can do to reversal a meaty wakeup crossover, so try to knock him down. Blanka's c.RH is a very good range poke, so this should suffice.

OmegaRed

03-28-2003, 04:44 AM

P-Groove Honda -vs- K-Groove Todo

It's not that he's incredibly tough for my sumo friend but is there a way to avoid giving him the Ultimate Ecstasy Wave?

OrochiIori313

03-29-2003, 12:28 AM

The only player I think I'm decent with is Iori. I usually play him as my R2 everytime in a few different grooves. I have problems against Naka, Shotos, and Chang. Any tips? Usually I have problems against the C and K grooves, not too many with the others, sometimes A but not many people play with A that I've fought.

Mucho appreciated.

capconian

03-29-2003, 06:41 PM

i am a huge terry fan so can i get some help
1-who is terry's counter and who is terry can counter against?
2-matchups c-terry vs. a/p/n/k sagat/yama/blanka/cammy

Mummy-B

03-31-2003, 08:33 AM

Originally posted by capconian
i am a huge terry fan so can i get some help
1-who is terry's counter and who is terry can counter against?
2-matchups c-terry vs. a/p/n/k sagat/yama/blanka/cammy

1: Terry has alot of counters, unfrotunately. They include all of the top tier, more Blanka than anyone. Cammy comes second, and Sagat third, IF you can zone them out properly. Which is alot harder than it sounds. These matchups usually end up being Terry at R1 taking a good chunk of life off at best, then allowing your anchor to take them out.

2: wow. i'll have to get back to that one.

capconian

03-31-2003, 12:54 PM

um:sweat: terry is my best character so you know (i use him at R2) ;)

Mummy-B

03-31-2003, 03:53 PM

Originally posted by capconian
um:sweat: terry is my best character so you know (i use him at R2) ;)

He may be your best character, but he isn't good enough to be an anchor even if your name is Tokido. Put him at R1, play him well, and he'll have more utility.

capconian

04-01-2003, 10:48 AM

so what do you recomend? i use rock/cammy/terry and i am starting to use kyo and guile :depress:

JayblahX

04-01-2003, 02:13 PM

Need advice for:

Rock (K/P-Groove) -vs- Cammy/Sagat/Vega/Balrog (Any Grooves)

Sagat (K/P-Groove) -vs- Cammy/Bison

Athena (K/P-Groove) -vs- Shotos

Thank you.

Mummy-B

04-01-2003, 02:23 PM

Originally posted by capconian
so what do you recomend? i use rock/cammy/terry and i am starting to use kyo and guile :depress:

R1 Terry/R1 Rock/R2 Cammy

In that order, unless you meet a particular matchup you know Rock can handle better (which, in most cases, that won't be true because both Rock and Terry are pretty even).

fatboy

04-01-2003, 03:18 PM

Anybody have ideas for Guile or Ryu Vs. A ducking feirce crazy athena?

capconian

04-01-2003, 03:31 PM

thanks alot mummy-b it's helpful info

OmegaRed

04-01-2003, 04:25 PM

Originally posted by fatboy
Anybody have ideas for Guile or Ryu Vs. A ducking feirce crazy athena?

c.rh xx flashkick - try and do the c.rh so the first hit is just out of reach and the second one will hit if she doesn't move. most people will at this point try and jump which brings in the xx Flashkick.

use his level 3 super, even if blocked it does incredible damage

if you're in P, S, or K grooves just go right at her and use your defense mechanism followed by a nice throw or my personal favorite.... his b.k from just the right distance (the one where he goes upside down)

convergence

04-02-2003, 08:27 PM

Orochi_Shoto

04-03-2003, 07:13 PM

Originally posted by convergence

I propose that from here on out, all Cvs2 gamers call "Blanka" "Branka"! This would be incredibly cool and show how 1337 we are!!

Arthough we are 1337, saying Branka is just prain Engrish.

jae hoon

04-03-2003, 07:26 PM

Originally posted by JayblahX
Need advice for:

Athena (K/P-Groove) -vs- Shotos

Thank you.

Ouch P Groove Athena, havent found much use for that. K Groove on the other hand I do. Athena vs Shotos, first off when your playing Ryu especially you should never be afraid to jump in on him. His uppercut is either one parry or one jd thats it. All his anti airs are easily parried or jded which takes away the threat of you jumping in. Now if Ryu jumps at you especially short jumps, the same strategy still works. That stuff isnt hard to parry or jd and an instant fierce or fierce uppercut will do the job. P Groove dont forget to use Athena's Dash. She has a decent dash and alot of times you will be able to dash in and throw. In K Groove its all about keeping constant pressure on your opponent. Alot of short jumps and fireball games are effective in neutralizing a shoto in K Groove. Against Ken or Akuma its alittle harder to jump in on as they have a multi hit uppercut, still with timing and experience you will learn how to parry or jd them fairly easily making there anti air inneffective. Now if they like to empty jump remember Athena has an AIR THROW! Its the most forgotten about part of Athena gameplay and its a fairly good part of it. Her air throw is one of her most reliable anti airs and is a really good counter for empty jumpins. You also need to realize that most people not all abuse the same moves for shotos. For Ryu you know there going to do crouching jab alot in a run groove or if you get up close, also there going to stick out crouching foward alot for all 3 shotos. You can usually start to predict when there going to do this as when you get up close those are usually the most popular moves of choice, as alot of times they dont want to take the chance on missing a dp and giving you a free hit.

OmegaRed

04-03-2003, 07:34 PM

one thing Jae Hoon missed is not only can she do an air throw but you can do her Dragon Punch in the air. Whenever you jump in on an opponent I usually do empty jump in till my feet are by them and then do a dp.

Rick Fn Stalvey

04-06-2003, 08:59 PM

Originally posted by OmegaRed
Whenever you jump in on an opponent I usually do empty jump in till my feet are by them and then do a dp.

No offence dude but Athenas DP as a jumpin is lame. What if u miss, super city, no only that its an ass anti air. I have never beed hit by the air dp and I have played some damn good athenas, well damn good is all relative to athena:lol: .

What good jumpins does athena have to really merit a jumpin, even when its setup?? I am not saying Athena is ASS but I am saying that she is not really sometin to fear, however P and K do make her a lil harder to deal with but its not like it makes her that much better.

capconian

04-07-2003, 03:52 PM

what's 1337?

Rick Fn Stalvey

04-07-2003, 11:04 PM

Originally posted by capconian
what's 1337?

1337 = leet has in elete(its been so long since I have seen it spelled correctly that I dont even know how its spelled anymore):lol:

capconian

04-08-2003, 11:53 AM

i don't get it

Shocky

04-08-2003, 04:22 PM

1337 stands for leet, which is short for elite. It is basically a typing language for the "mainstream" crowd on the internet.

But anyway...back to matchups and other thread related things...

Cool-Breeze

04-08-2003, 04:33 PM

how do you parry?
and is there a different way to parry in each groove?
?

ernestw

04-10-2003, 01:16 PM

Originally posted by JayblahX
Need advice for:

Rock (K/P-Groove) -vs- Cammy/Sagat/Vega/Balrog (Any Grooves)

Sagat (K/P-Groove) -vs- Cammy/Bison

Athena (K/P-Groove) -vs- Shotos

Thank you.

I don't know much about Rock but I'll have to agree with you that those four characters will give Rock a hard time . . .

Sagat vs. Cammy/Bison. Do not low jump. Both Cammy and Bison can stuff out a low-jumping Sagat if they are fast enough and/or they're expecting it (Cammy will use s.rh, Bison will use l.fp). Generally against those two you should try to get in and keep on landing those fierces just remember to go easy on jumping.

Athena vs. Shotos -- the worst thing a shoto can do against Athena (actually the only good thing) is l.mp all day. It actually will stuff out Athena's l.fp fairly consistently . . . so your job would be to get them to start jumping. You should be able to throw fireballs fairly safely since a shoto isn't fast enough to clear the fireball and hit you on reaction.

popoblo

04-16-2003, 02:16 PM

can anybody give me some help on these matchups...

geese (A/K) vs blanka (C,N,A)

after a fp throw, if blanka rolls over and tries to do electricity, can't geese do a high counter on wakeup and counter blanka's electricity? i heard that somewhere, i haven't got to test it out yet. doesn't geese win this one very often?

hibiki (A/K) vs chun li (C,N,A)

not too sure about this one. does hibiki do very well against chun li?

and are there any good counter characters to chun li? she can be very difficult to beat in the hands of a skilled player.

capconian

04-16-2003, 03:01 PM

can some one give me an analisis on terry,rock C-groove vs. yamazaki K-groove

opera

04-17-2003, 02:21 PM

RagingStormX

04-18-2003, 06:25 AM

Hibiki does very good against Chun-li, it's very hard for Chun-li to get in on her defense. Vega also does good against her. Geese can do any counter on wake-up, they are instant, so if a bison player is jabbing at you, mp counter on wake-up.

My main problem- (N) Kyo vs. (C) Vega, Hibiki
I win if I get a knock down, but otherwise lose....:mad:

Rock-sama

04-20-2003, 03:41 PM

Chun-li (C) vs Rock (C/N)

I have trouble playing chun-li vs. an ultra turtle rock. Rock just throws out fireballs from medium range, and if i jump he punishes with standing rh. I also cant beat his jumping rh, chun's crouching rh trades usually in Rock's favor. If i try to cross-up, he does standing roundhouse.
- o.g. posted opera

wow, ur chun li loses to rock. i have actually spent most of my cvs2 game on rock, and the only two characters i fear .... well one is chun li and then there is rc c-sagat but i hate more than fear him( :depress: i've even resorted to learning sagat :fury:) i use c and n groove more n than c and i would say im surprised, maybe you dont cross up at the right distance.... (at the right distance im even nervous to use rock's c.mp to stop her cross up) :o hehehe one time i almost completly lost against a c- chun li that was basically repeating s. mp into fireball...... how come u dont step back and use s.fierce to stop his jump ins ala 3rd strike? save your meter to make rock hesitate, i guess improve your ground play so that you wont be limited to it when rock has a full bar. also rock is played very risky so u should be able to capitalize on his many mistakes.

now can any one suggest something to deal with an rc sagat worm?

opera

04-20-2003, 04:25 PM

Yea, the problem i have is getting in on rock. When he leaves an opening however, i always punish with l2 houyokusen xx short spinning bird kick xx l1 kikoshou. so s.fp beats rock's j.rh cleanly? I also think chun's c.strong can hit rocks j.rh from the correct distance, right?

Rock-sama

04-20-2003, 07:52 PM

alright, i guess ( i dont play chun but ive played against very very good ones) the only thing that fs me up is when chun s. fierce like 2x in a row maybe( i know its different in the match so just bear with me) then she c. rh the 3rd time which screws up my timing then i get c.rh xx fireball super. the rock you describe is actually playing a good strat. agaisnt chun cuz chun should be able to rush down on him if he is not defensive. no run? her roll is very quick i believe. wow i never really considered rock as an opponent cuz there arent that many people that use him.....well atleast :bluu: . anyway hope i helped.

opera

04-22-2003, 05:27 PM

i was messing around and found jump straight up rh beats rocks j.rh. walk back s.fierce doesnt work too well unless you hit with the tip of her fist. I think jump straight up rh works best against characters with downward angled quick jump ins like rocks, geeses, and yamazakis.

Rock-sama

04-23-2003, 01:21 AM

can anyone suggest a good strat aganst c-sagat w/ rc with n-ken or c-ken. which would fare better? who is sagat's "offical" counter?

PokesYOU

04-26-2003, 07:26 PM

Originally posted by popoblo
can anybody give me some help on these matchups...

geese (A/K) vs blanka (C,N,A)

after a fp throw, if blanka rolls over and tries to do electricity, can't geese do a high counter on wakeup and counter blanka's electricity? i heard that somewhere, i haven't got to test it out yet. doesn't geese win this one very often? Yes , Geese would counter Blanka's Electricity. (unless u RC, of course)

RagingStormX

04-29-2003, 05:18 AM

Geese's counters stop roll cancels.:D Sagat's official counter is Blanka. Vega, Hibiki, Benimaru, Balrog, and Bison do well also.

popoblo

04-29-2003, 11:21 AM

Originally posted by RagingStormX
Geese's counters stop roll cancels.:D Sagat's official counter is Blanka.

how does blanka counter sagat, does he just out-poke him?

Prism

05-04-2003, 07:18 AM

p groove sagat against a groove eagle. thanks.

also, how does hibiki counter sagat?

kcxj

05-04-2003, 05:12 PM

Originally posted by popoblo

how does blanka counter sagat, does he just out-poke him?

Use Blanka's d.HK a lot. It outranges 95% of Sagat's moves, so use it to punish (and get a knockdown) whenever Sagat whiffs something. Not as much range as the slide, but it's safer. Sagat can't fierce you back if he blocks it. Control space with your jump straight up HP too. Press HP quickly as you're going up, also sometimes as you're coming down. Mix up between the two to keep Sagat from getting in with his j.LK's (cross-up especially).

If Sagat jumps in from far, use your Blanka slide as no-trip guard anti-air as well.

Blanka is one of the best counters to Sagat in my opinion.

chester27

05-06-2003, 08:47 AM

hey guys do you know any websites on video matches or tournaments, so i can learn more on there skills.

RagingStormX

05-09-2003, 10:08 AM

Hibiki and Blanka can both turtle well against Sagat, and can stuff/punish alot of his moves. Blanka has a horrible time against Hibiki though.

Gouki-Worshiper

05-09-2003, 10:36 AM

you're telling me!

kcxj

05-10-2003, 02:51 AM

Originally posted by RagingStormX
Hibiki and Blanka can both turtle well against Sagat, and can stuff/punish alot of his moves. Blanka has a horrible time against Hibiki though.

Blanka owns Hibiki big time. Take a closer look a the matchup. What move does Blanka have that Hibiki can't do crap against? More than just low jumps.... That's all I'm leaving it at. Hope you guys can figure out this one on your own.

firewings

05-18-2003, 06:34 PM

(N) Nako vs. (C)(N) Sagat or (K) Gief
I can win Sagat sometime. But I always lose very very badly again Gief, when I attacked Gief, he just throw me with special after JD. Sometime even I did kick him out of surprise and give him some good damage, he can still throw me. Only thing I can do is using the bird dive all day till he rush me.

(N) Vega vs. Hibiki
Vega having very very hard time against her defence.

Kyo vs Honda (ouch)
That honda just RC jab headbutt me all day long. He poke me using it when I retreat, anti air my attack. He use Level 3 only super to punish me when I block. I can't get close to him, I ran and he handbutt, roll and he wait till I finish the roll then he handbutt me while I recovering from roll. I really need help on this one.

Thanks!!

Magneto090

05-21-2003, 04:56 PM

Right now I am working on a team to take to tournaments, my best character is Chun-Li. Right now I am thinking of playing N-Groove Chun-li (2), Ken, Ryu/Sagat. I tend to play aggresivly going for lvl 1 combos, are there any specific characters that you can think of that would give me a problem. If so can you give effective counter strategies.

Oxygen.

05-22-2003, 01:46 PM

c-honda vs a-sagat

c-honda vs a-rolento

Honda21

05-25-2003, 01:28 PM

C-Iori vs C-Honda
C-Guile vs (any groove)Akuma

Magneto090

05-25-2003, 04:24 PM

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but as well all know Hibiki fireball slash has a really bad recovery time and can be punished by a number of characters. Bison (psycho crusher/scissor kick), Sagat (c.fp, low tiger shot super)....... I would like to add two characters that can do this as well, Iori and Kyo. After a Hibiki sword slash either Iori or Kyo can use the rekka punches to get to Hibiki before she can recover, that is assuming that Iori or Kyo were within the range of the slash to begin with. That being said, Iroi in general is a pretty bad matchup for Hibiki, and Kyo can ever fierce recca his way through a sword slash. If anyone cares to add some counterstrats for Hibiki vs. these charaters plz do so.

popoblo

05-25-2003, 04:36 PM

Originally posted by Magneto090
Right now I am working on a team to take to tournaments, my best character is Chun-Li. Right now I am thinking of playing N-Groove Chun-li (2), Ken, Ryu/Sagat. I tend to play aggresivly going for lvl 1 combos, are there any specific characters that you can think of that would give me a problem. If so can you give effective counter strategies.

i'd personally recommend putting Chun-li anywhere but first on that team for the exact reason you just stated. if you like level 1 combos so much, then put ken first so he can build the meter, so if you choose to put your chun li at 2nd or 3rd, then she comes in with a whole bunch of level 1 supers ready, instead of having to play personal battery for her own combos.

putting chun li first for the reason you stated (ie non-battery) is like putting A-bison first without any meter, it just doesn't seem too smart.

hope that helps.

PS- Gandido wrote this guide awhile back, but it's still some really good info, especially the somewhat limited character specific matchups. check it out...

Magneto090

05-25-2003, 05:05 PM

Thanks, I usually dont put Chun-li first normally glad I wasn't wrong in doing so. Yeah Ken is normally a battery for Chun and Sagat, I play him decently. But I need help in dealing with Yama and Blanka, I haven't played too many people with a good Yama but I can't seem to get inside with either Chun-li or Sagat, and with Blanka I get stuffed in the air with the jumping straight up and down "jesus" punch. Any suggestions, I normally play N-groove if that is any help. Ken-Sagat (2)-ChunLi.

popoblo

05-25-2003, 05:20 PM

Originally posted by Magneto090
But I need help in dealing with Yama and Blanka, I haven't played too many people with a good Yama but I can't seem to get inside with either Chun-li or Sagat, and with Blanka I get stuffed in the air with the jumping straight up and down "jesus" punch. Any suggestions, I normally play N-groove if that is any help. Ken-Sagat (2)-ChunLi.

i'm by no means an expert, but here's what i'd recommend...

against yama- use her standing lk from the right distance because it has excellent priority at the tip. pace the match with walking back and forth, and standing mp into fireball whenever you're close enough. use headstomps. SBK trap that ish. do random short jumps into combos. just play smart (obviously), he's a turtle character, and chun li can do the same if necessary.

against blanka- standing lk's again, random mp into fireball again, cr hk all jump in attempts, short jump straight up in the air and hope for their jumping jesus fist. if they do, then walk up, mp into super.

Magneto090

05-25-2003, 05:55 PM

okay understand this using Chun-li, But how does Sagat deal with Yama. The way I have seen him played is zoning until there is and opportunity to start gaurd crush strings, how can Sagat deal with this type of Yama?

Xstatic

05-25-2003, 09:22 PM

c-honda vs a-sagat

first of all, im no expert honda player, but i do use him alot. this is what i would do for this match-up

for a sagat that is trying to keep honda away with fireballs: do not roll when you are more than half screen (or even a little less) to him because he can easily tiger upercut you (duh). roll only when your on the total opposite side of the screen so you can gain a little ground. after you are around half screen, start doing the but drops make sure to do it around the same time as the fire ball is coming out. repeat pattern if he continues this throughout the match. its also good to fake a butt drop maybe just jump up, or jump towards him, but dont attack cause he WILL try for a tiger upercut. once you air block or make him waste a tiger upercut, whatever you do to him is up to you. another good trick is to do a far jump towards sagat and poke him with j.hk. its a very long kick that will reach him after you jump over a fireball.

sagat that is turtling: nothing of hondas can outreach or out prioritize sagats c.hp. hope that he misses a c.hp and then do a headbutt (or anything you like). do not do headbutts from far because he can easily c.hp, s.hp or tiger uppercut you out of it without trading hits. if you do it from around half screen, he wont have too much time to respone and it will either result in you trading hits with c.hp, you stopping c.hp before it gets out or he will tiger uppercut you (if he has good reflexes or does it early). another option is to air gaurd his tiger uppercut. once your in the air, most sagats i know will try tiger uppercuts and get cought once i air block. you can also try to do a j.hk from far and hope the toe hits whatever he does. if sagat has his special and hes sitting on it, do hondas headbutt. even if it is blocked, he wont be able to do a CC or special on you. if he tries to hit you out of it with a CC it wont work, it will just hit you back because your in the air.

agressive sagat: jumping sagats can be beat with s.hp. you got to time it right, though. do not do s.hp when sagat is grounded, because he can CC you before it even reaches him. same rule applys for his c.hp and c.hk. so do not try to punish him with any of those if he misses a tiger uppercut or anything else (cause you never know what will happen). use headbutts for punishment. like said before he cant CC headbutt or even a blocked one (so dont worry if its a little late or early). if you ever want to poke an agressive ground sagat, use c.lp (maybe combo into hard headbutt) or s.mp. you can meet sagat in the air and beat him using j.hk. if you want to trip him (dont try much if he has CC ready) i would trick him with f.hk and then cross him up (if your brave) with buttdrops or j.mk (splash).

be carefull using L3 Headbutt. if blocked can mean the end of honda. try to combo it off of c.mk (2 hits).i would use L3 grab instead (to be safe).

of course, RCing headbutt makes things alot easier for honda. all these strats are for people who cant RC very well.

hope that helps.

RockTakane

05-31-2003, 01:19 AM

I suck at Parry and JD (on a joystick), so I use C-Groove mostly.

I'm using C-Hibiki now, so my forum name here isn't a waste (H. Takane), since I basically threw out Rock because I can't use him well enough against...SAGAT; da BITCH!!!!! (haha) ARRRRRRRRGH.

Here are the matchups for which I'd like help, and my character is the 1st in each matchup:

C-Hibiki vs. Sagat (maybe any groove, but mostly C, or maybe N and K)
I HATE this matchup because now that I use Hibiki, it's common for me :( How do I zone effectively against him? His tiger shots make it hard to position myself, and I'm not sure when it's safe to qcf-slash or qcb-slash him, if he might block. I'm going to try to work on fakes, though. Also, wTF is up with his damn jump-in Roundhouse (I think that's the one)?!?! He beats my attacks in the air all the time, so I think I need a quick jump-in fierce. Is he the priority KING or WHAT? He also does tons of damage to Hibiki, whom I presume has few hit points: again --> :( I also naturally have trouble dealing with his damn low fierce (big surprise THERE, eh?!?!), and he can maybe outpoke me with his pokes. Do I just need to be more patient and fake him out into doing a move I can punish with qcf-slash??? Is the qcb-slash ever worth using on him?

C-Hibiki vs. Iori, any groove? I never played this match, but I'd like to know how to deal with him if everyone's saying he's a problem...

C-Hibiki vs. Vega or Bison (any groove), if that's tough for her, because I'll have to deal with them in the future, right?!?!

C-Yamazaki vs. Sagat (C, N, or K)

I HATE Sagat now! He's my toughest opponent, ANNNND I'm not getting better at dealing with him yet...

Grimori

06-05-2003, 03:13 PM

Hibiki

I'm having a helluva time getting in on Hibiki. She mostly zones the shite out of me. Are there any normals Zangief has that beat her out? Specials? Against her I stick to jabs/shorts on the ground with the ocaissional foward to counter and use body splash and knee press for crossup/throw setup on the rare times I get in close. Rolling usually sets me up rather than give me an advantage. She recovers in time to punish me usually. RC throws are the only thing that occasionally work, and that's 1/100 matches.

Sagat

Just as painful as in the other SFs. Lariats/Banishing flats stop kicks, but at long range tiger shots leave me in a guessing game. Thought about trying a RC running grab but not sure if that will work. Plus my RCs are too inconsistent.

Blanka

Can Lariat beat Blanka ball?
I tried running grab after a block but too far, unless my timing is off.

Cammy

AA RH and jabs to keep her grounded work most of the time, but good Cammy seems like she has no recovery time. Counter AB/Running Grab works after blocked specials, but in close I usually end up getting crossed up. What's the best way to handle her?

kcxj

06-17-2003, 07:45 PM

Hey, I like Zangief.

Gief's s.mk and d.mk (the far one) are really good against Sagat. d.HP is really good too, but you have to know the right time to use it. Sagat can s.HP xx super you back if you whiff (which sucks). Other than that, walk back lariats, RC green hands etc...

Hibiki I have no clue. Parry all her moves and press d.HP :lol:. Use lots of max range jab spd's is all I have. Since Hibiki usually likes to roll cancel a lot, and Geif's jab spd is 0 frames and can grab from 58(?) pixels away, I'm sure you can do the math. You can get even more range if you RC your spd and let the roll animate a little first.

kcxj

06-17-2003, 08:06 PM

I really like Hibiki too (although in A-groove more than C, but C's still good).

Hibiki does really well against Sagat I feel. The only thing you really have to watch out for is if Sagat goes nuts with low jump HK on you. You can beat that with d.HP (although you have to be a little far away... don't whiff it for no reason either, you'll eat a d.HP). I just try to knock them down with RC slash instead.

Hibiki doesn't have to jump vs. Sagat. Just stay on the ground and stick out your sword all day. Max range qcb+LP (hit with just the tip) will get you to Hibiki's optimal range. But only do that from midscreen or less (RCed to go through tiger shots if you want too), so Sagat doesn't see it coming from a mile away. If he jumps, you can get a knockdown.

j.HK is really good on Sagat, but only after a knockdown. At midscreen, it's one of those ambiguous cross-ups (where you'll hit one way, then land on the other side). In the corner, Sagat can't do anything about it after he's knocked down, since you'll be right over his head.

Oh, she can also do full screen super jump MP, d.LP xx slash, and it'll all combo for three hits (not that many characters have that sort of ability).

Do you punish mistakes with far s.MP xx deadly rave super? Start doing that. Not enough people do.

The only time Sagat really puts the hurt on you is if you let him jump in for free (ie. you whiffed a qcf+p slash). So just... don't. Know all your ranges and Hibiki wins no sweat. CvS2 easy mode :).

RockTakane

06-18-2003, 10:31 PM

Originally posted by kcxj
I really like Hibiki too (although in A-groove more than C, but C's still good).

Hibiki does really well against Sagat I feel. The only thing you really have to watch out for is if Sagat goes nuts with low jump HK on you. You can beat that with d.HP (although you have to be a little far away... don't whiff it for no reason either, you'll eat a d.HP). I just try to knock them down with RC slash instead.

Hibiki doesn't have to jump vs. Sagat. Just stay on the ground and stick out your sword all day. Max range qcb+LP (hit with just the tip) will get you to Hibiki's optimal range. But only do that from midscreen or less (RCed to go through tiger shots if you want too), so Sagat doesn't see it coming from a mile away. If he jumps, you can get a knockdown.

j.HK is really good on Sagat, but only after a knockdown. At midscreen, it's one of those ambiguous cross-ups (where you'll hit one way, then land on the other side). In the corner, Sagat can't do anything about it after he's knocked down, since you'll be right over his head.

Oh, she can also do full screen super jump MP, d.LP xx slash, and it'll all combo for three hits (not that many characters have that sort of ability).

Do you punish mistakes with far s.MP xx deadly rave super? Start doing that. Not enough people do.

The only time Sagat really puts the hurt on you is if you let him jump in for free (ie. you whiffed a qcf+p slash). So just... don't. Know all your ranges and Hibiki wins no sweat. CvS2 easy mode :).

Damn: thanks, dawg. I can't remember now what was giving me trouble about Sagat, besides what I described, but I felt the need to go after my opponents, since they were turtling a lot. I don't even find AAs very consistent in this game, dammit...unless I'm mistiming my use of them. mheh.

I've decided that I suck with Hibiki, but I'll try using her again. I'm afraid she just tends to have BIG problems with some characters, while not with others.

Before I go, I almost forgot, but I should address some of your points and/or questions :)

I don't really.....errrr.....use the Deadly Rave Neo super-thingie, but I would do St. Strong or Cr. Strong into Dashing Super if I got the chance.

She can super-jump FULL-screen?, and still get the full combo? Hmmmm...I didn't realize this, or that it's so special...I didn't know ANYone could jump full-screen, but maybe you meant if Sagat is sticking out his arms while throwing Tiger Shots? haah....