Which Street Fighter Alpha game is your favorite?

[Goldsplinter]

My personally is Alpha 1, I've had it since it first came out on Saturn, and I really love the normal attack combos. And because Guy Pwnz!

[abacabb]

A3 for me. World tour mode on the psx stole the show.

[Goldsplinter]

A3 for me. World tour mode on the psx stole the show.
That's Street Fighter Alpha 3 Upper basically.

So everyone who has the Alpha 3 for Saturn and PSX(Playstation 1), if you choose that alpha 3 instead of the arcade alpha 3, please choose Alpha 3 Upper, since that is the one with the extra characters like Deejay, Evil Ryu, Shink Akuma, Guile, etc.

[Ouroborus]

alpha 2 by far.

aside from the marvel series, no other street fighter game comes close.

[Mowbs]

A3 Upper by a landslide.

[Darkside3024]

A3 upper.

[cygnus]

voted "I HATE STREET FIGHTER ALPHA!"

hatehatehatehatehatehate

[Best Kind Boxer]

Where the option for PSX A3 with the good DeeJay? :wgrin:

EDIT: woah, who the fuck is picking upper?? :sad: PSX A3 ISN'T UPPER!!!

[goodm0urning]

Although A2 will always have a special place in my heart, at the end of the day I prefer to play A3. And since I'm cool with either version, I picked normal A3 over Upper to even the chances a bit.

[renvi]

A3 Upper

[elvis_a_presley]

A3 CPS2 original. Got one in the shop on a 29" candy cab, and I play that thing at least once a day. Good times.

[Kayin]

The amount of votes for Alpha 3 Upper is already surprising me.

My vote goes to Alpha 3 tho, I fucking love that game.

[Khiempossible]

HF for the win.

[Rhio2k]

Alpha 2 and Zero 2 Alpha

[goodm0urning]

HF for the win.Reading comprehension... it's a beautiful thing.

[Mowbs]

Where the option for PSX A3 with the good DeeJay? :wgrin:

EDIT: woah, who the fuck is picking upper?? :sad: PSX A3 ISN'T UPPER!!!

I think the real question is...how come no one has voted for A2 Gold over A2?

[Khiempossible]

http://shoryuken.com/forums/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=3519

then ctrl+F -> callmeanewb

[BlackKnight456]

PSX and DC versions of A3 were effectively Upper weren't they? I'm going Upper over plain A3 coz Guile and T.Hawk... wouldn't be the same without em.

[polarity]

That's Street Fighter Alpha 3 Upper basically.

So everyone who has the Alpha 3 for Saturn and PSX(Playstation 1), if you choose that alpha 3 instead of the arcade alpha 3, please choose Alpha 3 Upper, since that is the one with the extra characters like Deejay, Evil Ryu, Shink Akuma, Guile, etc.

Uh, no.

Anyway I voted A2 because A3 is dumb

[Kayin]

Uh, no.

Anyway I voted A2 because A3 is dumb
Oh the irony in such a statement....

[polarity]

A2 is dumb but A3 is dumber

[ruthless_nash]

A2, music, backgrounds, etc etc

[Best Kind Boxer]

I bet most of the people voting for Upper haven't even played it. :confused:

Console versions are not upper.

[Demon Dash]

This is a really hard one for me. I love the superiority of A3, but A2 Saturn was the first SF I REALLY got into. It was my mother game, so to speak. But I did leave her behind..... I'm going to have to say A3. I just like the overall apearance of it better, like the anouncer, fight screens, loads; although I did come accustomed to A2's super screens. Also the game's just superiour... More characters, more veriety, recovery, it all just makes the game better, it also runs a bit smoother I think. Edit: Also one button super activation > A1/2.

Don't get me wrong, A2 is an awsome game, I just think A3's one step ahead.

[Gen-An]

I think the real question is...how come no one has voted for A2 Gold over A2?

The heck would anyone chose A2 Gold over original A2? That'd be like picking A3 Upper over original A3 :rolleyes:

[master akuma]

Alpha 2 and then in a close second Hyper Alpha (A2 was the game that made me continue in the fighting game world)

Maybe Hyper Alpha will replace all the Alpha games in a close future (maybe)

[arstal]

Reason A2 was liked more was that A2G made some unpopular changes, like making the Flash Kick airblockable and the SPD slower.

On HSFA I tend to play a modded SFA2 (I use supers A3 style, and Customs A2G style, with no airblocks)
Just wish there was a way to disable customs entirely.

[ruthless_nash]

alpha 3 with alpha 2s music, presentation, sound effects, etc would have been top tier IMO

[cent208]

alpha 3 upper, i think the new juggling system of alpha 3/ alpha 3 upper is what really put it ahead of alpha 1 and 2. i;m choosing alpha 3 upper over alpha 3 b/c of the new characters and backgrounds

[master akuma]

After 73 votes Alpha 2 is still one the lead :tup:

[V-ismatic]

The heck would anyone chose A2 Gold over original A2? That'd be like picking A3 Upper over original A3 :rolleyes:
Because A2G is actually more balanced? I liked most of the "unpopular" changes, and Chun-Li needed to be nerfed.

And I voted for A3U, so you can guess what that means as well. Because, although I do like V-ism, I didn't like it utterly dominating every aspect of the original A3 that wasn't named A-Dhalsim. Both V-ism and Dhalsim got knocked back to earth in A3U, allowing for more gameplay balance and variety.

[cent208]

After 73 votes Alpha 2 is still one the lead :tup:

Although A2 has the most votes, A3/A3U got more votes than A2/A2G. I voted for A3U but if the votes were only A1, A2, or A3 I would vote for A3. Maybe we should do a second poll with just A1, A2, and A3?

[TheGrape1]

Uh, no.

Anyway I voted A2 because A3 is dumb

Wow. Talk about back asswords.

[streetfighter lord]

Man why is this so difficult. It is obvious that Hyper Alpha Street Fighter is the best game. Even if I am not fighting one of my friends, I can still random battle for about 200 battles straight. Good Times

[thumbs_up]

I had alpha 3 for psx and its horrible!! dee jay hawk guile and others are not worth it.
So im for alpha 3 then alpha 2 then HSFA(cause you can pick shin bison:lovin: )

btw ive never really played a lot of alpha 1 and I hear a lot of Guy??
what makes him so great?

[thumbs_up]

Lol my vote made alpha 3 and 2 tied :looney:

[Eric H]

I enjoy the first Alpha the most.

[NinjaPirate]

HSFA is my favorite because it lends the most options and you can basically play any character from any Alpha game.

[dbostick]

A3

Playing A1 and A2 after being so used to the A3 engine is like having steak without the A1... yeah...

[DarkSkillz]

I think SFA3 is the best of the Alpha series. Especially the SFA3 special edition in Streetfighter Alpha Anthology which basicly sounds like ya'll describe SFA3 Upper to be. I never played SFA3 Upper but I guess the special mode for SFA3 in SFA3 Anthology must be that SFA3 Upper ya'll talk about. I've seen Evil Ryu, Shin Akuma in it and more.

Anyway the SFA 3 engine is the best of the whole Alpha series. More fighting options and more specials. Graphics, counters, crossovers, combo's and sequances are far superiour to SFA1 and SFA2.

[Epsilon]

I voted for SFA3, it's mass of characters, well tuned gaming engine and the sheer skill needed to play it makes it a great game. The fact that it's still being played and included in tournaments is proof of how good the game is, it's been almost 8yrs since it's release.

[shinmaster619]

I like alpha 2 music and backdrops.

but everything else in alpha 3 is better.

[tolkien]

A2 did have some better BG's compared to A3

But A3 is still my fave

[master akuma]

Although A2 has the most votes, A3/A3U got more votes than A2/A2G. I voted for A3U but if the votes were only A1, A2, or A3 I would vote for A3. Maybe we should do a second poll with just A1, A2, and A3?

I'm surprised that Alpha 2 has so many votes, I was amazed that A2 was in the lead because there is always so many people talking about A3 in srk, the thing is that there is many people that enjoy more the "alternate versions" of A2 and 3: Gold and Upper, so it's fair to have all the Alpha games in the same thread for each user to vote.

I never enjoyed A3 (it's a question of taste) and even if I play less fighting games today A2 is still my fav fighter, I'm just surprised that srk has much more people who enjoy A2 than what I tought (and that is a big thumbs up) :tup:

[shinmaster619]

i like the action of alpha 3 but the settings are much better in alpha 2

[technique121]

alpha1 cause it was not confuseing nice and simple pure fighting and i only found one glitch ryu and ken shoryuken could right through projectiles if timed correctly and rumor was on that game is that guy has a combo that can kill the opponenet if done correctly

[lomo the kid]

To the poster above= ^_~

To the topic:
I like A3 the most. But understand what people have with A2. The better music, the better stages, mostly everthing is very cool there. But it lacks in some points. Mainly the deep and nearly perfect A3 game engine. And all the A3 characters like Karin, Mika etc. especially Juni.

It fun learning this game, it's fun playing it. it's fun do train VC's, it's fun to learn match ups your not familiar with. So much fun, lol ^^

I can play it for hours and don't get bored. It's the game I can play the most charas. All those points let me feel free playing A3. In 3rd for example I feel more like being closed up. Don't like the feeling of the game, don't like how the normals feels like you can't cross-up with everyone. I just don't feel this free.

[Iczer one]

I like Upper the most, but i am pretty much forced to play A3. Not that i complain ... :mad:

[StephonJ]

A3.

I felt the fighting engine was more refined than A2, and they brought back the old characters (Blanka, Vega), which was pretty cool.

Oh, and -Ism system is still the best!

[G.O.T]

A2 Then Hyper Alpha.

A2 is the shit. Hyper is all of them being able to play with every character for m every revision.

I hate A3. Just didn't feel it. Im a 3s man anyways.:bluu:

[Sazae]

As of right now I vote for Alpha 2. But that mainly comes from the fact that I have yet to really sit down and learn any of the in's and out's of A3. From the little I have played though I love the way it feels and handles. Music and all is not as good as A2 but I usually wear headphones while playing anyways so it's not a big issue to me.

[evilmuffinmanX]

i voted hyper....

sometimes more is more :tup:

[Slamurai]

Alpha 1! Sakura FTW no doubt!

[BKB]

^ uh , what? :lol:

[AlphaZero X]

A2 as a complete game, Hyper because the variety of matchups is insane

[Ytsejam89]

Other: Alpha 3 Max! Its gameplay modes are ridiculous! Really Dramatic Battle, Variable Battle, Final Boss, 8man Tournament, World Tour :lovin: All of it online!

I say combine HyperSFAlpha with Alpha 3 Max's gameplay modes and we got the best of the best!

[Ytsejam89]

i like the action of alpha 3 but the settings are much better in alpha 2


Like no chip damage :arazz:

[Ephidel]

Alpha 3 no doubt.

[Iwantas Tick]

Alpha 3 for sure. All good games though, the remixed sf2 tracks in A2 are nice.

[Cla]

There are things to love about them all, but overall, A3 Upper is my fav.

[JackTenrac!]

Zero 2 ftw...

Why?
- Ryu vs. Ken dialogue
- No Final Bison
- it felt like ST all over again.

...that went well.

[Iwantas Tick]

I changed my mind. After playing Alpha 2 I've come to like it more then Alpha 3.

[Sanjuro_The_Ronin]

A2 because I use to play that all the time in the arcade (when it was still around here.) A close second is A2Gold because I use to play that alot on my Saturn. A close third is A3.

[KnightWarrior]

I picked Alpha 2 Gold..But I like both Alpha 2 & Zero 3 on the Saturn

[Starcade RIP]

There are things I like a lot about both A2 and A3. Being able to custom or super in A2 was a lot of fun. The quarter spin rolls from back to down to recover felt so good that I still do it about of habit in CvS2. The music/backgrounds were awesome. Then A3 has the juggle system and isms, which I like more that the CvS2 grooves (but I didn't play SNK games much, so that's part of it).

I think pound for pound, A2/A3 are still my favorite fighters. I remember reading the VS games Alpha 2 strat guide like it was a bible.

[Iapetus]

I have to say after playing A3 extensively for a while and going back to A2; it feels like a breath of fresh air. I am no expert and I definitely have a crappy game, but I enjoy games that feel solid to me. A3, as extreme and varied it is, is a bit too new-school for me. The guard meter plagues me and command throws/auto recovers don't work for me. I am not saying that A3 is better or worse (I believe all games are the same, it just really depends on who is playing them), I just enjoy A2 more. So, yes, I voted for A3, but if I could I would take that back and select A2.

[bigvador]

i gotta go with hyper alpha as much as i like the first 1 more im just goin with something that has more choices

[Kayin]

I changed my mind. After playing Alpha 2 I've come to like it more then Alpha 3.

Stole my post.

[the_judge]

Street Fighter Alpha 3!

[Terry_nb]

A3, more chars, more Grooves even if V dominates, one of the best juggle systems ever, pretty wide high mid tier who can compete with the tops, VC's are harder to learn then CC's in A2 for example, standard throws with 2 buttons, Guy is good in the game etc.

[oppn1]

A3 ouf of all sf games

[Trygon]

I voted for Hyper Alpha for the simple fact of all the insane match ups. Sure they arent what tournament players normally like but I like a change every now and then and that did it for me with the Alpha games. Like with HSF2 I loved the insane match ups with that too. However Capcom needs to now make SF4 insated of these Insane match up Hyper games.

[Rob2_0]

a3 upper for me i dont play the extra chars but i love fighting against them
wheres the gba alpha at , i would have voted for that one. :lol:

hyper is crazy though i especially like how the mvs moves for some ppl
and the old school music for the sf2 chars

[Achroma]

A3 Max for the PSP, it's got more characters, and all the modes come unlocked, so it's great for long hours of traveling and stress relief.

[The Illuminati]

Zero 2 ftw...

Why?
- Ryu vs. Ken dialogue
- No Final Bison
- it felt like ST all over again.

...that went well.

Better endings too.

[JackTenrac!]

oh, and the music is hotsauce. Geif has the best theme.

[The Illuminati]

The sprites are also bigger in A2 than in A3.

[Sousuke]

Alpha 2 (gold)....i play it recently a lot with a friend. we both prefer A2 to A3 anytime. i am not a pro so i can't explain it correctly but it just feels better. the CC are not as broken as in A3 and you can beside your CC's also do your supers which brings more variation than just sticking only with V,X,A-Ism.

[Cascade]

Alpha 3 has more variety.

[GunterJPN]

Alpha 3 has more variety.

That's an illusion. You have to choose what you want at the character selection screen, but during gameplay you are forced to play with only ONE alpha counter, and EITHER VCs or supers. The "variety" of when to pop out, tech roll, etc. are bonuses to make up for those losses. The character count itself may be higher, but any character you choose is about half of what it is in A2 (because you have to choose an ism).

Also, because of the dominance of VCs, you basically have to use Vism. Of four tournament-allowed isms, only one is capable (outside of a few characters). That means only one fourth of the game is good.

Anyone that thinks A3 is a good game, MUST be using Vism...:rolleyes:

[goodm0urning]

CCs were pretty dominant in A2, but I prefer the CC system in A2 to the VC system in A3.

A2 just feels like a much better rounded game, and it has that old school feel. The looseness of A3 is a lot of fun, but it's ultimately not what I prefer in a fighting game. You just can't dig into the characters.

[Sousuke]

That's an illusion. You have to choose what you want at the character selection screen, but during gameplay you are forced to play with only ONE alpha counter, and EITHER VCs or supers. The "variety" of when to pop out, tech roll, etc. are bonuses to make up for those losses. The character count itself may be higher, but any character you choose is about half of what it is in A2 (because you have to choose an ism).

Also, because of the dominance of VCs, you basically have to use Vism. Of four tournament-allowed isms, only one is capable (outside of a few characters). That means only one fourth of the game is good.

Anyone that thinks A3 is a good game, MUST be using Vism...:rolleyes:

CCs were pretty dominant in A2, but I prefer the CC system in A2 to the VC system in A3.

A2 just feels like a much better rounded game, and it has that old school feel. The looseness of A3 is a lot of fun, but it's ultimately not what I prefer in a fighting game. You just can't dig into the characters.


wuhh, and i thought i was the only one who thinks so.:smile:

[Cascade]

That's an illusion. You have to choose what you want at the character selection screen, but during gameplay you are forced to play with only ONE alpha counter, and EITHER VCs or supers. The "variety" of when to pop out, tech roll, etc. are bonuses to make up for those losses. The character count itself may be higher, but any character you choose is about half of what it is in A2 (because you have to choose an ism).

Also, because of the dominance of VCs, you basically have to use Vism. Of four tournament-allowed isms, only one is capable (outside of a few characters). That means only one fourth of the game is good.

Don't exclude the fact that A2 is cc and ac dependent. One ac in alpha 3? Big deal. Anyone can abuse acs in a2, because of lack of a guard meter. CCs can pretty much make you a comeback kid and vism even more so. I'm aware of the ban of vism in tournaments, infinites and combo glitches in a3, because I've seen and know how to do them. It doesn't mean that I like to do them. In fact, I'm put off from it, be it ccs in a2, vism in a3. I think custom combos of ANY kind and infinite alpha counters are a waste of space. a3 has it's bs just like a2 and you can't argue against that. What I meant mainly about variety are mainly characters.

About half of any character for an ism, I use to have something against that with the separation of basics and supers on different isms, but I no longer see the point to care.

Anyone that thinks A3 is a good game, MUST be using Vism...:rolleyes:

:lol: You FAIL for being delusional. I use any other ism besides vism, because I know what it's capable of. Again, it's a good game for having more characters and having a world tour mode on the psx version.

[GunterJPN]

Don't exclude the fact that A2 is cc and ac dependent. One ac in alpha 3? Big deal. Anyone can abuse acs in a2, because of lack of a guard meter.

No. ACRs are a big part of the gameplay at high level.


CCs can pretty much make you a comeback kid and vism even more so.

At least in A2, the game wasn't all about one CC (outside of Rolento maybe). CCs took very little time off the clock, so it ended up being a lot more footsie based. You had to have good footsies to prevent being CC'd. In A3, one VC led to an infinite, or at least built up tons of meter to land another VC shortly afterward. Everything became "rokotsu, land a VC".

I'm aware of the ban of vism in tournaments, infinites and combo glitches in a3, because I've seen and know how to do them.

AFAIK, none of those (besides maybe glitches - I can't recall any right now) were banned in tournaments. The only -ism that was banned in US tourneys when I still lived there was L-ism.

About half of any character for an ism, I use to have something against that with the separation of basics and supers on different isms, but I no longer see the point to care.


Because the game is not good enough to CARE ABOUT. You aren't even playing the game. You're playing the game sans what you perceive to be BS. You can look at a pile of corn-shit and look at only the chunks of yellow vegetables and say it's not that bad... but in reality, it's still a pile of corn-shit. Sure, A3 without Vism is fine. But that's not A3. A3 is corn-shit.

[jsheppar]

:lol: You FAIL for being delusional. I use any other ism besides vism, because I know what it's capable of.

i like that you're defending a3, but what you're saying here is fucking ridiculous. the other isms aren't capable of anything except losing to v-ism, because v-ism is superior in virtually every way. there are exceptions, but if you look at the benefits and detriments of each mode on paper v-ism is clearly superior to a and x. the flexibility of v just destroys everything else, there's really no way to argue against it.

[Cascade]

No. ACRs are a big part of the gameplay at high level.

Tell me something that I don't know, but that wasn't even the point of my post at all. You even quoted the part where I pretty much said in a different hint phrase that acs are an important part of the game.

AFAIK, none of those (besides maybe glitches - I can't recall any right now) were banned in tournaments.

I recall reading about it in different forums (not this site) on tournament gatherings over a year ago, unless it was false information and they were lying.

You're playing the game sans what you perceive to be BS. You can look at a pile of corn-shit and look at only the chunks of yellow vegetables and say it's not that bad... but in reality, it's still a pile of corn-shit. Sure, A3 without Vism is fine. But that's not A3. A3 is corn-shit.

It's not that bad, because I expect and accept the negative aspects in every fighting game. I'm open to change whether or not of it leads to a downside. I can bitch for a short while about it, but it won't change anything.

This is the last time I'm going to repeat myself. a2 is good for what it is, but the only thing that it lacks are more characters, regardless of certain basics, specials, and supers that are on different isms in a3. I accept a3 for what it is. If you still disagree, then that's your problem. It's not that difficult to understand. Also, it's illogical to say that without vism, it's alpha 3. It's the same title with the same sprites by the same company. Calling the game shit in general, because of one ism is illogical when not every fighter is meant to be a recycle of repetitive tradition of the previous.

If it was shit, then wouldn't the users in this forum would have not have voted for it, let alone having a3 leading in numbers in the poll? Even if I don't care for ccs and acs in a2, that doesn't mean that the whole game in itself is shitty. Seriously, calling any sf game shit in general is a personal opinion, when it's still street fighter.

[Cascade]

jsheppar, I can't argue against it. What I meant to say is I know what vism is capable of. I never liked depending on vism, because of it's benefit. I think the only time I use vism is when someone picks it in an vs match, but not all the time. I still prefer playing without it and find it a little more fun that way, even if I'll put myself in a losing situation against someone who uses it. It's not entirely impossible to win without it.

I said what I said to GunterJPN, because he thought I must play it for vism.

[Iczer one]

The way A2 is played is really simplistic compared to A3. Simple CC's, simple unblockables, simple juggle engine, abusable AC's, no guard meter ... A2 is basically all footsie, A3 is more than just that. I'm not saying A2 is bad, because it's not and i like it, but it's no match for A3 in terms of complexity.

Also, because of the dominance of VCs, you basically have to use Vism. (...) Anyone that thinks A3 is a good game, MUST be using Vism...
Oh please, not this again .. then what about those A-Chun (who made it to the final), A-Blanka (who was in the winning team) and A-Sim players you can see in the current Vegascup matches ? What about those Guy, Gen, Boxer, and Dictator players ? What about me using Rose and Mika in A ? Does that mean we're not taking the game serious ? At least half of the characters are competitive in A.

And don't make it sound like VC's ruin the game, they don't. Of course V-ism is strong, but it's not broken, it's not infinites all-over, and there's next to nothing you can't avoid if you're aware of your options.

[Middlekick]

That's an illusion. You have to choose what you want at the character selection screen, but during gameplay you are forced to play with only ONE alpha counter, and EITHER VCs or supers.

But this alone does not constitute a lack of variety. On the contrary, it is at the most basic level, an attempt for three different versions of one character. The fact that the SFA3 gauge only has two (one in X-ISM) primary functions as opposed to three in SFA2, is offset by the increased VC versatility and functionality, varied damage output and damage reception across the ISMs and some cases, different ISM movesets (controllable close and far moves, different X-ISM normal moves, X-Adon's Jaguar Kicks; CPS1 chain etc.).

Further contributions to SFA3's variety can be found inherent in its system, which gives no indication that their presence is there to compensate for having Supers over Custom Combos or vice versa:
- The Guard Power Gauge (balancing between offense and defense)
- counter hits (maximising damage opportunities)
- air throwing (more mix-ups to the air game)
- Super Gauge management (VCing at the right moments, saving gauge at other times)
- damage reduction
- countering moves - greatly diminished in SFA2
- tactical air recovering - for both the juggler and the one knocked down. A whole new venture, requiring knowledge and experience to make the most out of.
- recovery rolling
- V-ISM and all the things that go along with it: creating new VCs, character-specific VCs, VC functions (guard crush, chip damage, unblockable, anti-air, anti-ground, anti-anti-air VC, confusion, reset, walk cancel, shadow hit set-up) infinites, close and far moves.

The character count itself may be higher, but any character you choose is about half of what it is in A2 (because you have to choose an ism).

You make it sound as if the SFA3 characters were plucked straight out of SFA2 with no new additions whatsoever. Case in point: A-Gen, V-Akuma. I am at a loss to understand how you were able to equate the choice between Super Combos or Custom Combos (more commonly known as Variable Combos) as having the weighting of fifty percent of a character's livelihood, in a game with not only a brand new engine, but where the existing SFA2 characters' movesets have been altered to almost unrecognizable condition. Anyway, in SFA2, Super Combo effectiveness and consequently use at high levels, can be distributed in roughly the same varied pattern as ISM-selection in SFA3. That is to say, in SFA2 some characters have poor Supers (see: Guy, Rolento) or redundant Supers (Charlie, Adon), where only their Custom Combos and Alpha Counters would be worth using; and vice versa: some characters are better off using their gauge for Super Combos or Alpha Counters (Bison, Sodom). Similarly in SFA3 some ISMs are not ideally suited for certain characters (V-Boxer, V-Guy, X-Guy, X-Cody), or give better options (V-Charlie, V-Sakura, A-Guy, A-Gen), or clearly give a large advantage over the other ISM (V-Cody, V-Karin, V-Sodom). And in some cases, select characters are equally effective in both A- and V-ISM (Dhalsim, Rose, Dan, Birdie). It even goes deeper, as these ISM-choice dilemmas can be solved with consideration to individual match-ups (Adon, V-characters VS A/V-Dhalsim).


Also, because of the dominance of VCs, you basically have to use Vism. Of four tournament-allowed isms, only one is capable (outside of a few characters). That means only one fourth of the game is good.

It's not simply a case of say, A-Ryu being unplayable or low tier, but rather V-ISM is a better choice for him. As a CVS2 player, I'm sure you're familiar with this concept, where in the Groove/mode/Super Art selection system one mode proves to be better for sosandso than others (3s, KOF98,AE etc.) At the very least, SFA3 has 28 "capable" characters and contains enough balance between them (the characters, not the ISMs) to make it a game worthy of attention. Of course there's a "best" character for each ISM, which then forms a tier like any other fighter. Generally speaking, that's not very bad at all as fighters go. There's a good but not undefeatable top tier, a broad mid-tier with healthy tournament-winning prospects, and lower down the chain, you have the characters who require more effort to play who can do well. Sure, it wasn't the 112-character slugfest carnival that we had hoped, but there are more than enough decent characters and skill-based action and depth to keep the game enjoyable and engaging.

[goodm0urning]

The way A2 is played is really simplistic compared to A3. Simple CC's, simple unblockables, simple juggle engine, abusable AC's, no guard meter ... A2 is basically all footsie, A3 is more than just that. I'm not saying A2 is bad, because it's not and i like it, but it's no match for A3 in terms of complexity.Simplicity and complexity are not mutually exclusive, and more stuff does not equal a more complex game.

A3's juggle engine is not appreciably more complex than A2's--it's definitely more liberal, but there's nothing especially complex about popping up your opponent and being able to hit him anywhere in the air as long as he hasn't been blown back too far. A2's ACs are definitely powerful, but not abusable. Perhaps they're too powerful (I don't think so, since the meter puts a pretty strict governor on AC abuse), but nerfing them to the point of uselessness as they are in A3 was not necessary. A2 doesn't have a guard meter because it doesn't need one, and the addition of a guard meter doesn't make A3 more complex--in fact, the guard meter arguably simplifies the game, since the strategy needed to crack the opponent's block boils down to "crush his guard and get in while he's stunned."

Oh please, not this again .. then what about those A-Chun (who made it to the final), A-Blanka (who was in the winning team) and A-Sim players you can see in the current Vegascup matches ? What about those Guy, Gen, Boxer, and Dictator players ? What about me using Rose and Mika in A ? Does that mean we're not taking the game serious ? At least half of the characters are competitive in A.

And don't make it sound like VC's ruin the game, they don't. Of course V-ism is strong, but it's not broken, it's not infinites all-over, and there's next to nothing you can't avoid if you're aware of your options.There are exceptions to every rule, but there is still a rule: V-Ism unquestionably dominates Alpha 3.

[GunterJPN]

I think you guys are assuming that I never played A3 or something. I may be known for CvS2 now, but before CvS2, A3 was my main game, and A-Gief was my main character. I won a SVGL tourney once using him, beating Mouko's V-Akuma in the finals. Choi took 3rd. I know that A-ism can be used and that you can win with it, because I did so myself. That doesn't change the fact that I know that V-ism is the most dominant -ism. No one in their right minds would deny that. As I said earlier, "outside of a few characters" V-ism is the only one capable of winning at high levels. Across the board, when you choose a character and decide what -ism to use, more often than not, V-ism is the best choice. Even if their VCs suck compared to their supers, you need it for the counter-VC option.

When I said that every character is only about half of what he/she is in A2, obviously that was an estimation only taking into account use of meter. In A3, characters were given new moves (in some -isms) and V-ism obviously opened up a whole new world of options in the game. But I don't think ANY of those options were good. Crouch cancels, walking cancels, infinites, etc. made the game the closest to having a "win" button that SF ever came to. You land a VC, you basically win because it leads to an infinite or builds meter for another VC. You go to Ikebukuro Las Vegas or Seven Islands in Yokohama nowadays and you'll see nothing but V-ism and infinites. Even characters like Rose and Vega are dominating. I can see how it can be fun for the person doing the infinite, but I can't honestly say that those contribute to making it a good fighting game. Players with no knowledge of footsies and ground game can defeat more experienced players if it is a match of V-ism vs. A/X-ism, respectively. That's BECAUSE V-ism is so much better than the other two -isms that it makes up for the difference in player skill.

[TS]

You go to Ikebukuro Las Vegas or Seven Islands in Yokohama nowadays and you'll see nothing but V-ism and infinites. Even characters like Rose and Vega are dominating.

WHOOOOOOOOOO~~!!!

:woot:

[Xenozip.]

You go to Ikebukuro Las Vegas or Seven Islands in Yokohama nowadays and you'll see nothing but V-ism and infinites. Even characters like Rose and Vega are dominating. I can see how it can be fun for the person doing the infinite, but I can't honestly say that those contribute to making it a good fighting game. Players with no knowledge of footsies and ground game can defeat more experienced players if it is a match of V-ism vs. A/X-ism, respectively. That's BECAUSE V-ism is so much better than the other two -isms that it makes up for the difference in player skill. I sort of agree, but for a different reason.

You're correct when you say that V-ism infinites can compensate for the difference between player's skill levels. However, it's very obviously not free in the case of normal VC's. If the opponent stays on the ground it's very difficult to land a VC, especially confirm a VC. Because many VC's are used on anticipation it can fail against a player who knows how to bait it and avoid getting hit by it all together.

Much like a DP or another anticipation-based tactic, they are very strong tools that are useful when you have a proper read on the opponent. But when the opponent is skilled, it becomes very difficult to land anything just on anticipation at all, since skilled opponents know how to avoid these types of things with baits and mindgames and very strong footsies.

But this is why you see this sort of thing working a lot at mid-level play. You can walk into any random arcade and see wakeup DP's and jump-ins and anti-air VC's and other anticipation-based subpar nonsense working, because mid-level players fall for it and don't protect themselves against it.

However, IMO the really scary thing is forced damage using the fundamental mechanics of the VC. When you apply unblockables, guardcrushes, and even confusion/mixup VC's it's hardly an anticipation based tactic anymore. Some characters can even combine the two for a fail-safe technique. For example, if your read fails you still have plan B; unblockable. Thus, you can still somewhat guarantee at least some damage just for having the necessary level of execution even if your preemptive activation fails.

In the hands of a skilled player, any random crouching short short that connects from a skilled V-Karin player can lead to 100% unblockable unavoidable knockout.

The good news is, that isn't actually what goes down in most matches. Even top level players can't guarantee a win off a short even though it's technically possible. Likewise, any random knockdown from Chun should also guarantee the win, but that rarely actually happens.

Still, it is a huge factor. And I think this is something players tend to forget about, though IMO it should be obvious.

For example; V-Akuma's unblockables aren't exactly difficult to execute and are applicable midscreen and corner. While they can be escaped, it isn't exactly easy to do so, especially when you factor in the crossup unblockables which are even harder to escape. So combining that with his meter rebuilding, extremely fast and high priority (lol shoto) normal moves, and good special moves, it really should be no wonder to anyone why he is so good and why fighting against him is such bullshit at times.

But you could say this about a lot of games.

You can walk into any random arcade and view the 3S machine and see Yun using SA.3 for forced damage victory, just from execution of the custom and not footsie-based skill. With this logic, Yun should destroy the game at the core level just like V-ism should destroy A3. But IMO this is not the case.

Though, it certainly can be an additional handicap-like functionality. At times, it's easy to say that some sub-level players are stealing wins because the character (or VC) is carrying the player. But really it's not as though it's free or guaranteed, and I don't believe it holds up at higher levels of play. Even with Yun in the game the mid and low tiers of 3S stand a chance at winning tournaments.

And I would say likewise for the A3 mid tier standing a chance even with the top tier V-ism characters in the game.

Don't get me wrong though, it is bullshit to some degree. But this is bullshit that I can forgive because I enjoy the game. Much like how I can forgive Yun for being Yun, and Chun for having parry > low forward > super and an enormous kara-throw. It doesn't get in the way of me enjoying the game, even when I play mid or low tier characters.

[Iczer one]

I don't see it as bullshit, especially not 3S-Yun-like bullshit (who controls a match with SA3, that's very much unlike A3). I agree in what makes V-ism good is it's flexibility, if it's not your full-damage VC it can still be a guard break or unblockable setup. But that's not broken, because most stuff IS escapable or can be avoided altogether, even if you have to make some small sacrifices every now and then. Even i found ways with Rose and her shitty A-Ism Alpha Counter. If i missed the opportunity to escape, it's my own fault, not the game's.

Simplicity and complexity are not mutually exclusive, and more stuff does not equal a more complex game. (...)
I'm not talking about stuff, i'm talking about what's going on in your head while you play it. In that regard i think nothing comes even close to A3 (maybe VF, but that's so different that it's hard to compare). Sometimes it's even hard to understand what is going on in the players heads when you watch a match for the first time. You have to interpret some situations, and that's special, because it's not necessary in most other games (like A2, it just doesn't offer anything surprising when i watch it). I hope you get what i'm trying to say, i know it sounds pretty :looney:

A3's juggle engine is not appreciably more complex than A2's--it's definitely more liberal, but there's nothing especially complex about popping up your opponent and being able to hit him anywhere in the air as long as he hasn't been blown back too far.

Thrust me, it IS complex, you can build whole strategies around it (i certainly do). The way you air-flip is very important most of the time, because the whole juggle thing IS a very strong part.

A2 doesn't have a guard meter because it doesn't need one (...)
It probably doesn't need one, but having no guard meter encourages conservative playing, especially when paired with strong AC's and CC's. That's not working in A3, where you HAVE to move your ass at a certain point. Taking risks, getting hit on purpose (e.g. V-Cody needs to do that a lot when he gets into trouble), always save an AC .. it actually has a stronger impact on gameplay than you may think.

[Hatred Edge]

A3 Upper for the cast and Akuma being top tier.

[SaBrE]

a3 is still my fav alpha game. but i recognize its massive flaws. ive never been for custom combo engines(as fun as they can be, however).

[moltron1st]

I have SF Alpha Anthology and the original SF Alpha 3 on the PSX; But when I played A2 I was actually feeling it more than playing A3. On the real, A3 is the shit but A2 got that feel to it you know? So I'd have to say A2 and Gold A2.