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Rakukojin
07-29-2006, 02:39 PM
Okay, basically I have a paper due on Wednesday on who suffers more from sexism through language, women or men. I haven't made up my choice yet but I would like to get some insight on what some SRK members think, to futher help my paper.

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Here's some basic points that I have of sexism for both women and men. Sorry if it seems generalized and hard to understand, they were taken from my notes.

Women
1) English keeps women invisible.
- Words like man, mankind, "he", etc. (Example: "one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind")
- "Founding Fathers", does not credit the women that helped.
- Adam's rib words (Example: [fe]male, [s]he, [wo]man, etc.)

2) English defines women's roles.
- Most sports seperate women (Example: [W]NBA, [L]PGA, High School mascots for school sports - Lady Panthers, Lady Wolves, etc.)
- Adding male to words that are gender neutral (Example: [Male] Nurse, [Male] Prostitute, etc.)
- Having words depicting roles "meant" for women (Example: Housewife, Mr. Mom, etc.)

3) English makes male traits seem better.
- Being Manly vs. Being Womanly/Girly (Example: Manly - Tough, Strong, Fearless, etc. Girly - Fragile, Weak, Scared, etc.)
- Doctor/Nurse, Tomboy/Sissy, etc.
- Males that date lots of women are players, women that date lots of men are whores.

4) English Objectifies Women.
- Calls women animals (Example: Chick, Foxy, Bitch, Bird, etc.)
- Calls women desserts (Example: Honey, Cupcake, Muffin, etc.)
- Calls women possessions (Example: Naming guitars, cars, etc.)
- Calls women disasters (Example: Hurricanes - Katrina, la nina worst than el nino, etc.)

5) God
- When speaking of God, most think of a male figure.


Men
1) English is gender exclusive.
- Mother Tongue (Mom teaches the language to children)
- Alma Mater means Nourishing Mother
- Mammal called that because of mammary glands

2) English makes parent seen as mothers, not fathers.
- Parents = Mom (Example: Bring your parent to school means bring your mom to school)
- Mother a child = Take care and raise a child.
- Father a child = Males seem like just sperm donors.
- Advertisement targets women and ignore male parents (Example: Jiffy moms choose Jif, Kix - Kid tested, mother approved.

3) English sets social expectation of males.
- Boys cannot cry but can cuss.
- Restrictive (Example: Sissy, Pussy, Pancy, etc.)
- Men are never victims, always sacrifice (Example: If wife beats husband then men must have started it, if a robber might be in the kitchen at night then men must check it out, Titanic - Women and children first so men must sacrifice their lives even if they are the only parent, etc.)
- Selective Services aren't really selective, only for men.

4) Growing up teaches young boys to be "men".
- Don't be a crybaby, be a big boy.
- Called a Mama's Boy if they are sad.
- Play only with male toys (Example: Action Figures, cars, guns, etc.)
- Thought to be fruity/gay if playing with dolls, dress up, etc.
- Don't be emotional, suck it up (Example: Spoken by coaches, teachers, etc.)
- Male video games (Example: Halo, Grand Theft Auto, etc.)
- Called names if they're have no "courage" (Example: Wimp, Chicken, Sissy, etc.)
- Teachers and coaches use English to toughen boys (Example: Walk it off, suck it up, etc.)

5) English makes males do most of the work in relationships.
- Males must pay otherwise they're "cheap".
- Males are more easily satisfied in sex, so males must perform better and be "good" in bed - Performance Anxiety.
- Males must propose and buy ring for marriage to serve their roles as the "protector" and "provider" of the family.
- Divorce makes males lose more (Example: Alimony, Child Support, Child Custody, Assests)
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These are all gathered from articles I had to read. Maybe some people has more ways that the English language is sexist and can help me out. Please share your opinions :angel:

And to help me choose a side, I'm setting up a poll.

Hoonyo
07-29-2006, 02:47 PM
everyone suffers when you speak ebonics

Rhio2k
07-29-2006, 03:06 PM
You must remember that english was created by sexist european men who believed women were property, and too feeble-minded to own anything, or vote.

AHVB
07-29-2006, 03:11 PM
It's just a language. Seriously.

OMG LANGUAGE IS SEXIST.

I can hear the Feminazis now.

Jr7891
07-29-2006, 03:12 PM
I will say men just becuase less things are acceptable for men than woman.

Everyone loves lesbian porn, but gay porn is bad?

jae hoon
07-29-2006, 03:17 PM
It's just a language. Seriously.

OMG LANGUAGE IS SEXIST.

I can hear the Feminazis now.


And we have a winner

spudlyff8fan
07-29-2006, 03:33 PM
Yeah...this "issue" phails.

Disciple of Ryu
07-29-2006, 03:40 PM
I think your paper is more of an example of sexism in our culture, not so much spoken word. Although there is plenty there and I can't argue any of your points. I'm not very smart either...

Stabby
07-29-2006, 03:47 PM
I think your paper is more of an example of sexism in our culture, not so much spoken word.

I concur.

Rakukojin
07-29-2006, 03:52 PM
Yeah, it is about sexism in our culture but the paper is for an English class. It's basically word associations that dicate societal roles and cultural expectionals. Both male and females suffers, but I have to take a stand on which gender suffers from it more.

Thanks to the people that replied and voted so far.

*InVeRs3*
07-29-2006, 04:44 PM
When I was in HS/MS when you had to write 2 page essays, I'd always get mad when I have to write about male characters becuase 'he' is shorter than 'she'. It may be a one letter difference but little letters add up to fill a 2 page essay on a book you didn't care about.

So I'm going to have to say that dudes lose in this one.

Roxie
07-29-2006, 05:29 PM
I think it is unfair to both, however, I also think your paper topic is too broad. If we where talking about interpersonal relationships, parenting, sexual identity or something, perhaps that'd be eaiser to narrow down.

But this is:
- Mammal called that because of mammary glands

Is incorrect, as men have mammary glands as well.

You may want to look in this book, Slut! Growing Up Female with a Bad Reputation (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060957409/sr=8-1/qid=1154218964/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-7646958-5953600?ie=UTF8)

It has a list of sexualy perjorative and superlatives for males and females which may show a difference.

But I have always thought that the language of a culture reveals what it considers to be vaulable and unimportant.

AzN.Homeboy
07-29-2006, 05:34 PM
The only people who suffer from language are hypersensitive idiots. Make that your essay.

ninjabastard
07-29-2006, 05:56 PM
This class seems really stupid.

Rakukojin
07-30-2006, 12:16 AM
I think it is unfair to both, however, I also think your paper topic is too broad. If we where talking about interpersonal relationships, parenting, sexual identity or something, perhaps that'd be eaiser to narrow down.

But this is:
- Mammal called that because of mammary glands

Is incorrect, as men have mammary glands as well.

You may want to look in this book, Slut! Growing Up Female with a Bad Reputation (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060957409/sr=8-1/qid=1154218964/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-7646958-5953600?ie=UTF8)

It has a list of sexualy perjorative and superlatives for males and females which may show a difference.

But I have always thought that the language of a culture reveals what it considers to be vaulable and unimportant.
Thanks for the input, I'll look into that book. I know that my paper will be a little too broad but it's going to be about 5 to 6 pages long so I need a lot of information.

Darkstalker
07-30-2006, 12:45 AM
5 to 6 pages doesn't seem a lot. I did a short 10 page paper on how, historically, women have been shafted in my country (Malaysia, so I dunno how well it'd work out for you).

That said, I thought women get shafted, if I really HAD to pick a side. Specifically is that they're uh...the term is objectified? You know, foxy girl, hot chicks, that sort of thing.

Senjutsu Sensei
07-30-2006, 01:07 AM
5 to 6 pages doesn't seem a lot. I did a short 10 page paper on how, historically, women have been shafted in my country (Malaysia, so I dunno how well it'd work out for you).

That said, I thought women get shafted, if I really HAD to pick a side. Specifically is that they're uh...the term is objectified? You know, foxy girl, hot chicks, that sort of thing.

I like to shaft women.

ninjabastard
07-30-2006, 04:24 AM
Thanks for the input, I'll look into that book. I know that my paper will be a little too broad but it's going to be about 5 to 6 pages long so I need a lot of information.
I think you got more than enough information for a 5-6 page paper. My outline for a 20 page paper was around the same length as yours. You really should focus on what you want to say more. 5-6 really is not that much room to write your outline.

I still think this class is retarded though.

wepeel
07-30-2006, 04:28 AM
Based on what you said were your notes (from lectures, I gather), it would seem that females get the most sexism from the English Language, but that is because your "Male" side of the note taking doesn't talk about the actual language (words and phrases) as much as the "Female" side does. Your Male notes have more examples of a culture study that does not necessarily pertain to English...

Is your professor a female?

FurryCurry
07-30-2006, 07:09 AM
Isn't the answer obvious? Men have dominated society for centuries and centuries. But of course women are still hurt by the words we use for them. At the same time however many women have come to embrace being called a bitch, foxy, etc. I think you should look more into how women cope with the obvious sexism and how some even manipulate it to suit their purposes.

What an odd paper.

kaphwan239
07-30-2006, 08:45 AM
Honestly even though I voted women have it worse, I feel that it's just too deep of a question to try and get a solid answer in 5 to 6 pages. Don't get me wrong I believe you can make a school worthy paper in that amount of space but in order to really explore this question it would take in my opinion, lots of time in a really long discussion. Ultimately this goes far beyond the scope of gender identification in language and gender roles in society. This is something on the level of each individual persons views of sexism and society as a whole.

The way I see it women have it worse on the outside but when you really look both get shafted. Like it was stated before men have to be "MANLY MEN" whereas women have to be the homemakers and are expected to be emotional and weak. I myself being a male feel a little constricted in societies view having to be quiet about what I feel and never show any emotion. There is an immense pressure on me to be the form fitting "male" meh just my 2 cents.

thurst
07-30-2006, 09:36 AM
what bullshit class are you taking that has this as an essay topic?

Rakukojin
07-30-2006, 12:37 PM
what bullshit class are you taking that has this as an essay topic?
English. It's different from all the other English classes I've taken because we haven't done any reading from books, just articles that pertain to the use of language in our society. My last paper was about how much television has disrupted our way of life with propaganda, doublespeak, etc.

Is your professor a female?
My professor is actually male and he's the toughest grader I've ever had, so I want to write a good paper.

We had to read two articles, one written by Casey Miller and Kate Swift called "One Small Step for Genkind" and another one written by Eugene R. August called "Real Men Don't: Anti-Male Bias in English". The first article led a protest against the anti-female bias in English while the second one was written in response to the first one by a college professor. That's why the first seems to be more centered around the actual English language while the second focused more on the expectations of men.

Higher-Jin
07-30-2006, 05:18 PM
I have a problem with the supposed "double standard" on the whole promiscous men are players and all promiscous women are whores situation. I've heard alot of girls bitching about this and I just feel I want to say something about it. Men have to work to bed a woman, a woman doesn't have to do anything at all. People act as if those words describe the same situation when it's very obvious that it doesn't.

Compare what a woman needs to do to get a man to fuck her to what a man has to go through have sex with a woman. One has to go out and track the opposite sex, face multiple rejections, spit out some good game, spend money to get into clubs, and so on. Women sit there and get offers, drinks, gifts, and attention all day. I'm not bitching, I'm just calling a spade a spade, it's just the way it is. Today's western woman has got it made in this area of life. Women may get the short end of the stick on a helluva lot of things, but this ain't it so stop bitching. I'm sick of feminazis and self righteous cunts spitting out that line all day like some great injustice is going on in the world. Would you PLEASE... SHUT... THE HELL.... UP!