Third Strike at native resolution - DC or PS2?

[Komboku Breika]

What's the best way to experience Third Strike if I'm looking for arcade perfect looks? Sorry if this has been covered countless times, but my searches for an answer returned nothing useful.

The PAL DC version has a scaled picture, so I experience a loss of detail and some of the character sprites have noticeable holes in them where one tile meets another. This is unlike Second Impact that runs at native resolution and looks arcade perfect. :wgrin: (I read somewhere the graphics mode of 3S on DC can be changed at startup by holding certain buttons, but I've been unable to get this to work.)

I haven't seen the PS2 version so I'm not sure if the picture is scaled on it also.

If I can get any region on any format, which should i go for?
thanks in advance. :looney:

[Gen-An]

The PS2 version definitely doesn't run at the arcade version's resolution. The NTSC versions (US and Japan) of 3s on DC can indeed be set to different display modes by holding Start+X, Y or L while booting the game. Start+L is apparently the correct resolution as the game has scanlines and has no antialiasing. The PS2 version is interlaced and even though you can turn off the antialiasing filter, it still doesn't run at the correct resolution. See this site (http://candycabinetcity.com/?p=74) for details.

[Komboku Breika]

Thanks Gen-An! Just tried this now, as you say L/Z+START held after the ADX logo set the resolution to native CPS3. This has been tested on JAP, US & EUR versions. The game now looks arcade pefect :lovin: , just like Double Impact does. I will enjoy playing the game a great deal more thanks to you!

[elvis_a_presley]

The game now looks arcade pefect

Pity it doesn't PLAY arcade perfect. I'd rather correct gameplay over correct looks, just quietly.

[Stellarola]

Still a great port, I have tons of fun playing this version. None of the versions are arcade perfect, thats the way I look at it. Just get used to playing the one you play. Its perfect to the version it is in. Always look on the bright side!!:woot: :woot:

[Super Warrior]

Still a great port, I have tons of fun playing this version. None of the versions are arcade perfect, thats the way I look at it. Just get used to playing the one you play. Its perfect to the version it is in. Always look on the bright side!!:woot: :woot:

Agreed. Meh so f'en what, if the PlayStation 2 version isn't 100% arcade perfect?

Its PLENTY True enough to the Arcade original for me.

[elvis_a_presley]

Agreed. Meh so f'en what, if the PlayStation 2 version isn't 100% arcade perfect?

Its PLENTY True enough to the Arcade original for me.

I was saying that the DC port isn't close enough. It has progressive scan low-res graphics which make it look better, but the gameplay is off.

PS2 version is closer and better for actual gameplay ("better" as in "closer to the arcade"), but has an ugly scaled and interlaced screen draw which flickers badly.

So make your choice: pretty graphics, or accurate gameplay. But you can't have both. :sad:

[Komboku Breika]

I see playing with an scaled picture a bit like the difference between 50/60Hz (refresh rate not frame rate); it's just not as pleasant to play in my perception.

Elvis; could you elaborate on what gameplay differences there are between the DC/PS2 and arcade versions, or point me in the direction of some reading matter?

[elvis_a_presley]

Elvis; could you elaborate on what gameplay differences there are between the DC/PS2 and arcade versions, or point me in the direction of some reading matter?

It's been covered a few times now. In the DC version Urien's infinites don't work, and the parry timings are all different. There are other timing issues too, but I can't recall them right at this moment. There's been plenty of discussion about it on these forums as well as BYOAC / ArcadeControls.com.

The Japanese PS2 version is the closest thing you'll find to the CPS3 "A" board on a home console in terms of gameplay, according to public opinion.

Again, the PS2 version is scaled and interlaced which makes it uglier to look at, but the gameplay and timings are more accurate.

There's no doubt in anyone's mind that the best way to play 3S is to buy a CPS3 kit. But between the utterly STUPID street price on 3S currently and the CPS3 suicide battery issue (thank you Capcom for pissing off your paying customers), the PS2 version comes a close second as a home option.

I've never played the XBox version included with Anniversary Edition, so I can't comment on it. Someone who's played all 4 versions (DC, PS2, Xbox, Arcade) would do the world a favour by making an objective comparison and having it stickied on these forums somewhere.

[Stellarola]

I want people to try the JP version of 3rd Strike for the Dreamcast. Please check out my site to see what I found out. Parrying is on point! http://www.candycabinetcity.com/

[leaveal]

re: PS2/Xbox 3s.

what does the Filter option do? it's in the display settings. it makes things look a lot better to me, but i bet it's not CPS3 resolution like we all want.

[Overworld]

I've been playing on the JP version of the DC 3rd Strike for years now, and have not had any trouble between playing it and jumping and playing PS2 and vice versa, I don't notice a difference. (However I've never sat down and tested them side by side or anything, but I've never gone to one and had trouble doing any of the stuff I can do in the other, I can play both the same.)

So while I can't say for certain, that has been my experience.

[Stellarola]

re: PS2/Xbox 3s.

what does the Filter option do? it's in the display settings. it makes things look a lot better to me, but i bet it's not CPS3 resolution like we all want.


The Filter smooths out the "jaggies" on the sprites and such. I personally like to play with the filter off, doesnt seem as hazzy looking. My two cents.

[J0hnick]

Problems with the DC port.

1. Input lag. This makes the timing for parrying and hit confirming different then the arcade. The Ps2 and X-Box ports dont have this.

2. No unblockables. This makes playing Urien and Oro totally different then the arcade. This is because the DC port is based on the second revision of the arcade version (which most people dont like or play if given a choice) that had the unblockables removed. The Ps2 and X-Box have the unblockables intact, not only that, they have a setting in the options to change between old and new revision (its set to old by default) just in case you want to make it like the DC port. Most tournies use the old version.

3. Some combo's and juggles that work in the arcade dont work on the DC , characters like Yun and Dudley are effected the most.Ps2 and X-Box dont have this problem.

4. DC uses arranged (remixed) music which is different to the arcades. Doesnt effect gameplay, but still. Ps2 and X-Box let you choose between original (arcade) and arranged (DC).

Most of the worlds best 3rd strike players wont play the DC version because it messes up there timing when they play in the arcade, Yet they are fine with the Ps2 port.

[Gen-An]

I still wonder why Capcom decided, circa 2000 (with the ST DC port), to start scaling the ports to 480i instead of running them at the noninterlaced 224p resolution. The old ports had scanlines and were at the correct res, or close to it.

[Stellarola]

Problems with the DC port.

1. Input lag. This makes the timing for parrying and hit confirming different then the arcade. The Ps2 and X-Box ports dont have this.

2. No unblockables. This makes playing Urien and Oro totally different then the arcade. This is because the DC port is based on the second revision of the arcade version (which most people dont like or play if given a choice) that had the unblockables removed. The Ps2 and X-Box have the unblockables intact, not only that, they have a setting in the options to change between old and new revision (its set to old by default) just in case you want to make it like the DC port. Most tournies use the old version.

3. Some combo's and juggles that work in the arcade dont work on the DC , characters like Yun and Dudley are effected the most.Ps2 and X-Box dont have this problem.

4. DC uses arranged (remixed) music which is different to the arcades. Doesnt effect gameplay, but still. Ps2 and X-Box let you choose between original (arcade) and arranged (DC).

Most of the worlds best 3rd strike players wont play the DC version because it messes up there timing when they play in the arcade, Yet they are fine with the Ps2 port.


I don't believe it. Thats old hat. Not trying to sound negative or anything, but play the JP DC version. I'm not going to get that drilled in my head anymore that it's inferior. It plays great! :rock:

I can see how its based on version "B", but thats not a problem. There also isnt input lag. Thats a myth.

I need some people to tell some some stuff to try so I can compare some more. I'll make videos if I have to.

[elvis_a_presley]

I still wonder why Capcom decided, circa 2000 (with the ST DC port), to start scaling the ports to 480i instead of running them at the noninterlaced 224p resolution. The old ports had scanlines and were at the correct res, or close to it.

This is the default video out method defined by the Sony and Microsoft SDKs for all of their current generation of consoles.

It's a huge problem for me, as the PS2 is the current default target for most shmups that come out of Japan. When put on the PS2, most publishers don't move away from the SDK defaults and scale up the graphics, filtering it on the way, and then interlacing back to the screen.

Games like Mushihime Sama:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mushihime-sama
which send a screenful of bullets at you require pixel perfect timing. With the PS2 port, it's all blurry and flickery, and makes the game not only frustrating but gives me one hell of a headache after 15 minutes of play.

The PSOne defaulted to a ~240 line mode with progressive scan. The PS2 defaults to the ~480 line interlaced scan, like the XBox, and it sucks. It might make 3D games passable, but for 2D fighters and shmups it blows.

Problem is Sony don't give a rats arse about the 2D market. That much has been public knowledge for some time now.

I can see how its based on version "B", but thats not a problem.
For casual players (myself included) I agree. For people practicing for tournaments that use "A" boards, it is a big problem.

[J0hnick]

I don't believe it. Thats old hat. Not trying to sound negative or anything, but play the JP DC version.

Appart from being in English, there is no difference between the Japanese and US Dreamcast ports of 3s, hell even saves from one will work on the other. They are both based on the second revision, as stated above.

I'm not going to get that drilled in my head anymore that it's inferior. It plays great! :rock:

I can see how its based on version "B", but thats not a problem. There also isnt input lag. Thats a myth.

If the DC port was so great then why did they use Supergun's at Evo 2004 ?, would have been a lot cheaper to use DC's. If the second revision wasnt a problem then why did Capcom base the Ps2 port on the older revision ?.

I need some people to tell some some stuff to try so I can compare some more. I'll make videos if I have to.

Try Urien and Oro's unblockable setups on the DC, they wont work.

[Toodles]

Can someone else verify the parry timing is more accurate in the .jp version than the us version? If so, then I'll use the .jp version for the next TDC Final, but I'd like someone else to confirm.

[Stellarola]

Appart from being in English, there is no difference between the Japanese and US Dreamcast ports of 3s, hell even saves from one will work on the other. They are both based on the second revision, as stated above.



If the DC port was so great then why did they use Supergun's at Evo 2004 ?, would have been a lot cheaper to use DC's. If the second revision wasnt a problem then why did Capcom base the Ps2 port on the older revision ?.



Try Urien and Oro's unblockable setups on the DC, they wont work.

The parrying time is on point. I don't see why Capcom would let a product slip out the door with one of the main game mechanics broken. Yes, the dc game is based on version "B". It is however based on one of the versions of the CPS3 version thats not used in Evo.

The whole input lag is from the Fierce punch/kick on some Dreamcast pads. The trigger buttons are analog not digital. Get a digital pad with six face buttons. No lag. I'm using the Madcatz pads.

I'm sure you can't do those unblockables because of the version. Nothing wrong with the version it is though.

I'm sure if I had a single-blind test against the version "B" of the CPS3 and the Dreamcast you wouldnt be able to tell. Of course I'm referring to the JP Dreamcast version not the U.S. one.

[TheFragile]

What's the best way to experience Third Strike if I'm looking for arcade perfect looks? Sorry if this has been covered countless times, but my searches for an answer returned nothing useful.

The PAL DC version has a scaled picture, so I experience a loss of detail and some of the character sprites have noticeable holes in them where one tile meets another. This is unlike Second Impact that runs at native resolution and looks arcade perfect. :wgrin: (I read somewhere the graphics mode of 3S on DC can be changed at startup by holding certain buttons, but I've been unable to get this to work.)

I haven't seen the PS2 version so I'm not sure if the picture is scaled on it also.

If I can get any region on any format, which should i go for?
thanks in advance. :looney:

It is actually impossible to port the original cps resolution on Tv screen without losing details or resize screen

Tv resolution is 640x480
Cps resolution is 384x224

Problem is 384x2= 768 : too large for tv size

So, there 2 possible solutions:

1) The solution adopted for ps1 and saturn porting: Keep the game in its original res having part of left and right screen off the TV (in sf collection (ps1) they also reduce the energy bar in order to not have them exit the screen) (take a look comparing ps1 and arcade amulated: on ps1 they're shorter)
In Alpha 3 there is a video option "Nomal" or "arcade" . "Arcade" is the coin op size with the same coin op fighting area size (and so character could go a little off the sceen when they are at its limit. In "normal" the fighting area is the tv visible screen area (and so, a little bit shorter).

2) The solution for new console: Hi-res and strech to fit the game. This may be graphically not as good as the 1 solution but it keep the game screen like the arcade.
(and speaking of tournament, gameplay etc... this is the best option)

Example
Try to look at SST2: look at a stage in cps2 version (emulator), then look at same stage on the ps1 version and then ps2 (Hsf2) You will notice that portion of the stage visible in the ps1 version is smaller than in the other 2 cause it exit off the tv screen
The ps2 version is streched so its less beautifull cause it loose details but have the same proportion of the arcade

hope it was clear, sorry for my english.. :D

p.s.
The next solution could be hi-res tv...

[Stellarola]

It is actually impossible to port the original cps resolution on Tv screen without losing details or resize screen

Tv resolution is 640x480
Cps resolution is 384x224

Problem is 384x2= 768 : too large for tv size

So, there 2 possible solutions:

1) The solution adopted for ps1 and saturn porting: Keep the game in its original res having part of left and right screen off the TV (in sf collection (ps1) they also reduce the energy bar in order to not have them exit the screen) (take a look comparing ps1 and arcade amulated: on ps1 they're shorter)
In Alpha 3 there is a video option "Nomal" or "arcade" . "Arcade" is the coin op size with the same coin op fighting area size (and so character could go a little off the sceen when they are at its limit. In "normal" the fighting area is the tv visible screen area (and so, a little bit shorter).

2) The solution for new console: Hi-res and strech to fit the game. This may be graphically not as good as the 1 solution but it keep the game screen like the arcade.
(and speaking of tournament, gameplay etc... this is the best option)

Example
Try to look at SST2: look at a stage in cps2 version (emulator), then look at same stage on the ps1 version and then ps2 (Hsf2) You will notice that portion of the stage visible in the ps1 version is smaller than in the other 2 cause it exit off the tv screen
The ps2 version is streched so its less beautifull cause it loose details but have the same proportion of the arcade

hope it was clear, sorry for my english.. :D

p.s.
The next solution could be hi-res tv...



I suppose running it on a TV might be a problem? It doesnt seem like it. Here is a side by side comparison of the DC version and the CPS3 version on the same monitor at the same resolution. http://candycabinetcity.com/images/articles/3rdstrikecompare/comparison4or.jpg

The DC is on the left, CPS3 on the right. Sorry for the blurry characters, my camera doesnt take motion well.

[TheFragile]

I suppose running it on a TV might be a problem? It doesnt seem like it. Here is a side by side comparison of the DC version and the CPS3 version on the same monitor at the same resolution. http://candycabinetcity.com/images/articles/3rdstrikecompare/comparison4or.jpg

The DC is on the left, CPS3 on the right. Sorry for the blurry characters, my camera doesnt take motion well.

The easiest way to see the difference from dc and cps3 is looking at the super bar

Now, the number icon of the available super (the big one) is placed in a box (grey if you have no super and orange if you have supers)

ok, now take a look at the diagonal line of the box (the one between the 2 numbers)

You will notice that on cps3 is perfectly straight and clear, but on dc is quite fucked up... that because of the incorrect resolution

Other example of very visible signs of incorrect res are:
compare the letter in the char select screen , look at the A of Alex
or compare the "7 " number in the time icon...

[J0hnick]

Tv resolution is 640x480


Actually its 720x480 for NTSC and 720x576 for PAL, but yea, still too small.

[Stellarola]

The easiest way to see the difference from dc and cps3 is looking at the super bar

Now, the number icon of the available super (the big one) is placed in a box (grey if you have no super and orange if you have supers)

ok, now take a look at the diagonal line of the box (the one between the 2 numbers)

You will notice that on cps3 is perfectly straight and clear, but on dc is quite fucked up... that because of the incorrect resolution

Other example of very visible signs of incorrect res are:
compare the letter in the char select screen , look at the A of Alex
or compare the "7 " number in the time icon...

I dont understand what your talking about, diagonal line? If your talking about what im thinking of its the same, nothing fucked up here. Do you own a CPS3?

[leaveal]

yeah, stella, i was actually wanting to say that turning it off makes it look a lot better. DC still looks better though.

and btw, i can for sure say that DC timing is off.
i went from Xbox to DC to Xbox trying Yun's 1,2,3, GJ, s.mp, F+fierce.
i was doing fine on the Xbox, then when i went to the DC the s.mp was getting blocked. after i got used to the timing, i went back to the Xbox and the s.mp didn't even come out. pretty much means the DC is a little faster.

[Stellarola]

yeah, stella, i was actually wanting to say that turning it off makes it look a lot better. DC still looks better though.

and btw, i can for sure say that DC timing is off.
i went from Xbox to DC to Xbox trying Yun's 1,2,3, GJ, s.mp, F+fierce.
i was doing fine on the Xbox, then when i went to the DC the s.mp was getting blocked. after i got used to the timing, i went back to the Xbox and the s.mp didn't even come out. pretty much means the DC is a little faster.


Did you try the JP version or the U.S. version?

The JP version is more lenient like the CPS3 edition.

[yoooooon]

me and my homeboys like
xbox version, progressive scan 480p mode, filter off.

it is the BOMB, but you need some serious converters for the game. normal converters don't work. its pretty much magic box or bust.

[leaveal]

Stellarola, i'm playing the JP version.

[Gen-An]

I'm a pretty casual 3s player but even I notice timing differences between the DC and PS2 versions (both Japanese). The DC version is definitely faster.

[Stellarola]

I'm a pretty casual 3s player but even I notice timing differences between the DC and PS2 versions (both Japanese). The DC version is definitely faster.


I'm comparing the DC JP version to the CPS3 not PS2 or Xbox.

[leaveal]

sure, but everyone knows the PS2/Xbox are slightly faster than CPS3.
that only means the DC version is lots faster than CPS3.

[elvis_a_presley]

I'm sure if I had a single-blind test against the version "B" of the CPS3 and the Dreamcast you wouldnt be able to tell. Of course I'm referring to the JP Dreamcast version not the U.S. one.
I don't think anyone is criticising the Dreamcast version for being "bad" per se. The main criticism of the DC version is and always will be that it is based on the B board, and not the A board. And honestly, it's more of a personal preference thing.

For casual players (myself included) the DC version is fine. I play with digital sticks and buttons, not the analogue pads, and inputs are perfect. But I am nowhere near a tournament player for 3S, nor am I a Urien player (I'm a shoto-scrub at best).

me and my homeboys like
xbox version, progressive scan 480p mode, filter off.
Ah so the Xbox version DOES have 480p mode. That's good to know. Thanks for the confirmation.

What do you play on? LCD/Plasma TV? VGA CRT monitor?