Guile thread

[brian]

oh yeah, fwiw, in the one match I have of muteki guile vs DJ, he seems to try to play the match at a much closer range than I do. Don't know why..

[M.S.G.]

oh yeah, fwiw, in the one match I have of muteki guile vs DJ, he seems to try to play the match at a much closer range than I do. Don't know why..

Hey Brian, is this the match you were talking about?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=zpyW-LS1GwM

Muteki's concept of spacing with Guile is robot like. He is very good at advancing forward after the sonic booms to really limit deejay's space and lock him down. If deejay tries to jump over guile then he eats a c. fierce and is back where he started. Raisin posted an excellent graphic on the timing of the crouching fierce. Muteki looks for the perfect gap where he can control space with his sonic booms and follow up pokes, while at the same time limiting dee jays options on what he can do, which is pretty much throwing a max out or doing a desperate super to get of trouble (which obviously when playing muteki doesn't work). When you see Muteki play, he plays very offensively and doesn't corner himself as much as kurahashi. But both players find a way to make their styles work, and they do it very well.

[Battosai]

Hey Brian, is this the match you were talking about?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=zpyW-LS1GwM

Muteki's concept of spacing with Guile is robot like. He is very good at advancing forward after the sonic booms to really limit deejay's space and lock him down. If deejay tries to jump over guile then he eats a c. fierce and is back where he started. Raisin posted an excellent graphic on the timing of the crouching fierce. Muteki looks for the perfect gap where he can control space with his sonic booms and follow up pokes, while at the same time limiting dee jays options on what he can do, which is pretty much throwing a max out or doing a desperate super to get of trouble (which obviously when playing muteki doesn't work). When you see Muteki play, he plays very offensively and doesn't corner himself as much as kurahashi. But both players find a way to make their styles work, and they do it very well.

awsome vid, I am starting to pick up new guile.

[kmc]

...If deejay tries to jump over guile then he eats a c. fierce and is back where he started...

Is it the key to master Guile? I always throw out c.fierce too late and get stuffed, not even a trade. Is it to predict jump ins or to react to jump ins correctly with c.fierce or st.strong?

[Raisin]

Okay, so back on the subject of airthrows for a minute, here are the details that I'm aware of...

1. Horizontal range -- You have to be within a certain horizontal range of your opponent. You're either within this range or you aren't; it's not a radial measurement. (More on that in a minute.)

2. Vertical range -- The characters' torsos have to be at least somewhat aligned. You can't have one character's head near another's feet or something like that.

3. Must punch airthrow if below, kick airthrow if above -- If Guile is below his opponent, only the punch airthrow will work; otherwise, he will get a jumping normal attack. If Guile is above his opponent, he needs to use the kick airthrow.

4. Can't airthrow right next to ground -- It seems that it doesn't work if either character is too close to the ground. Guile can't rip off an airthrow only 1 or 2 frames into the air after his prejump frames, and he can't seem to airthrow when his opponent is just about to land. You can still airthrow fairly close to the ground, just not right next to the ground.

5. Both airthrows have the same range.

6. The kick airthrow does more damage.
__________________________________________________

Tech babble: non-radial range checks. This shows just about the biggest horizontal range that I was able to airthrow from, both during a very large height difference and a very small height difference. This horizontal distance is the same in both cases, or in other words, you're either in the horizontal range or you aren't. The game doesn't calculate the ranges of the two characters radially, so the area in which you can perform an airthrow is a rectangle rather than a circle.

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee304/Raisin_SF2/Guile/Airthrowhorizontalrange.png
__________________________________________________

i was able to do a kick air throw when the guy was above me
The punch throw has more range if I'm not mistaken...
Not saying you guys are wrong, but I've been unable to replicate these findings with what I've looked at so far.

[UltraDavid]

Can you tech out of those airthrows? Can you tech out of every airthrow?

[Footsy Bebop]

Raisin your posts are sick! I mean that in a good way =)

[brian]

Raisin, that's one hell of a good post!

I think everything you said is correct.

I'll see if I can incorporate these into my game at all. Do you think there are situations where an airthrow is better than a quick jump attack anti-air? I guess to get the airthrow you typically have to delay pressing the attack button slightly in order to get closer. This seems risky.

[wolf_1]

i want more raisin posts!

raisin, ive been able to kick airthrow people that were above me numerous times.

[Battosai]

Okay, so back on the subject of airthrows for a minute, here are the details that I'm aware of...

1. Horizontal range -- You have to be within a certain horizontal range of your opponent. You're either within this range or you aren't; it's not a radial measurement. (More on that in a minute.)

2. Vertical range -- The characters' torsos have to be at least somewhat aligned. You can't have one character's head near another's feet or something like that.

3. Must punch airthrow if below, kick airthrow if above -- If Guile is below his opponent, only the punch airthrow will work; otherwise, he will get a jumping normal attack. If Guile is above his opponent, he needs to use the kick airthrow.

4. Can't airthrow right next to ground -- It seems that it doesn't work if either character is too close to the ground. Guile can't rip off an airthrow only 1 or 2 frames into the air after his prejump frames, and he can't seem to airthrow when his opponent is just about to land. You can still airthrow fairly close to the ground, just not right next to the ground.

5. Both airthrows have the same range.

6. The kick airthrow does more damage.
__________________________________________________

Tech babble: non-radial range checks. This shows just about the biggest horizontal range that I was able to airthrow from, both during a very large height difference and a very small height difference. This horizontal distance is the same in both cases, or in other words, you're either in the horizontal range or you aren't. The game doesn't calculate the ranges of the two characters radially, so the area in which you can perform an airthrow is a rectangle rather than a circle.

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee304/Raisin_SF2/Guile/Airthrowhorizontalrange.png
__________________________________________________



Not saying you guys are wrong, but I've been unable to replicate these findings with what I've looked at so far.

Excellent post raisin

[djfrijoles]

I wish I could subscribe to Raisin posts.

[MrSimpson]

I wish I could subscribe to Raisin posts.

me too =]

[Chrisis]

I've been schooled, thank you Raisin, but I was just saying what had been said in the random trivia thread on these boards. ^^;

[SmoothCat]

great post guys guile all day!!!

[Battosai]

The best US guile player ever was Tomo Ohira.

Word. I wish I got to play against him when Schaefer shortly came out of retirement(I faced him after he beat daigo at FFA), I got to play against Thomas Osaki at 2k2 though but not against his guile.

[brian]

If anyone's interested in seeing it, Valle showed up on 2df the other day and played a set with me Guile vs Ken. Ive never played a ken that gave me such a hard time.. well, it was pretty even, but that makes me wonder how it would go to play his Ryu or O Sagat.

I'm a bit undecided about whether going for crossups against ken is worthwhile. If he blocks the crossup you put yourself in a bad spot because if you do low strong afterwards and then he dragon punches, he's safe. So you put yourself right in his comfort zone. Going for low short combos kind of works, but its really hard to directly combo the low short on shotos after the crossup, and if youre playing Valle, he's often going to reversal dp there. It might be better to just play a really boring style against ken and do nothing but sonic booms basically..

Another annoying thing he would do alot is dp after whiffing sweeps. So if you try to low forward his sweep, you are punished badly if you mistime it. He also had a bunch of really good setups where he would sweep from long distances at a time where it was "obvious" I was going to do a low forward (which would then get beaten). Typically if he guessed wrong he wouldnt get punished anyway from these ranges.

Anyway its a pretty entertaining set so go take a look.

[KING]

Another annoying thing he would do alot is dp after whiffing sweeps. So if you try to low forward his sweep, you are punished badly if you mistime it. He also had a bunch of really good setups where he would sweep from long distances at a time where it was "obvious" I was going to do a low forward (which would then get beaten). Typically if he guessed wrong he wouldnt get punished anyway from these ranges.

Anyway its a pretty entertaining set so go take a look.
...lol, you just got baited. adjust, son!

[Battosai]

If anyone's interested in seeing it, Valle showed up on 2df the other day and played a set with me Guile vs Ken. Ive never played a ken that gave me such a hard time.. well, it was pretty even, but that makes me wonder how it would go to play his Ryu or O Sagat.

I'm a bit undecided about whether going for crossups against ken is worthwhile. If he blocks the crossup you put yourself in a bad spot because if you do low strong afterwards and then he dragon punches, he's safe. So you put yourself right in his comfort zone. Going for low short combos kind of works, but its really hard to directly combo the low short on shotos after the crossup, and if youre playing Valle, he's often going to reversal dp there. It might be better to just play a really boring style against ken and do nothing but sonic booms basically..

Another annoying thing he would do alot is dp after whiffing sweeps. So if you try to low forward his sweep, you are punished badly if you mistime it. He also had a bunch of really good setups where he would sweep from long distances at a time where it was "obvious" I was going to do a low forward (which would then get beaten). Typically if he guessed wrong he wouldnt get punished anyway from these ranges.

Anyway its a pretty entertaining set so go take a look.


Yeah his new Ken is tough, I beat him 3 out of like 8 matches, but then about 30 min later we had more games and he brought out old ken, and it was ultra difficult , I could not even touch him...the guy never fell for my watson like fake outs(old guile). Trust me man, if you think his new ken it hard try facing against his old ken before you even think of playing his ryu.

Btw can you please post those on to youtube? The computer admin at my will not take the fire wall so I cant install anything(My only web usage).

[wolf_1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbQF9Ea5Vhs
2:46 - 2:47

how???

[ShinVega]

st.Foward right??? I mean your talking about Guile hopping over the low tiger with that move right? Or are you asking something else?

[CaliPower]

nice guile matches =)

[Battosai]

Even though this is irelevent to this thread I am posting this just cause I thinks its a really cool kick ass 80's movie and I think Capcom molded Guile off of this guy from this movie. 2 things I picked up from this movie is that he does guiles jump foward kick in this clip and later he does that neutral close standing roundhouse from SF2 through a truck window. Lol that explains why it looks like Guile is holding onto something when he does that old kick:

Guiles jump forward kick from the movie American Ninja 2
http://youtube.com/watch?v=8bVriLdlqPw&feature=related

Guile old neutral close standing roundhouse at 2:33 on this clip

http://youtube.com/watch?v=bwTMKLCQftw&feature=related

[KING]

st.Foward right??? I mean your talking about Guile hopping over the low tiger with that move right? Or are you asking something else?

yeah he's asking about the s.forward hopping over the low tiger...

in ST he can still do it; it just takes impeccable timing like the guy in that video showed.


there's a classic video of kurahashi vs. choi doing the same thing somewhere on youtube.

[Dwin]

anyone have any stats vs honda and T.hawk for some reason those chars throw me for a loop...

[djfrijoles]

Since you guys were talking about airthrows, I thought you guys could put this to use.

http://mx.youtube.com/watch?v=4-qulM0aXRA&feature=related

Looks like it isn't to impractical to use in a real match by baiting DP's but I'll let you Guile pros figure it out if it can be used or not.

[Battosai]

Since you guys were talking about airthrows, I thought you guys could put this to use.

http://mx.youtube.com/watch?v=4-qulM0aXRA&feature=related

Looks like it isn't to impractical to use in a real match by baiting DP's but I'll let you Guile pros figure it out if it can be used or not.

I love to play that bait game, but its easier said than done during the heat of the moment.

[brian]

yeah I really dont see how to make that practical. The main situation I guess would be crossup-> long strong-> bait dp -> airthrow. But in that situation you can just do low strong -> flashkick, and the airthrow is techable. I think its just useful when you want to show off (a role which it fills quite well :P)

[djfrijoles]

Oh I don't know guys but I'm a sucker for wake up DP's. Knock me down and bet 100 dlls that I'll do a wake up DP even if you are a full screen away :rofl:

I was thinking maybe after an AA flash kick -----> walk forward and get into postion ( same as vid ) and wait for the DP. There was also a part on the vid where the Shoto put HIMSELF into position after he whiffed a DP and the imedieatly does another ( something Shoto players do A LOT ).

But ehhh.......you guys say it isn't practical, then I'll take your word for it.

[Battosai]

Oh I don't know guys but I'm a sucker for wake up DP's. Knock me down and bet 100 dlls that I'll do a wake up DP even if you are a full screen away :rofl:

I was thinking maybe after an AA flash kick -----> walk forward and get into postion ( same as vid ) and wait for the DP. There was also a part on the vid where the Shoto put HIMSELF into position after he whiffed a DP and the imedieatly does another ( something Shoto players do A LOT ).

But ehhh.......you guys say it isn't practical, then I'll take your word for it.

Yeah I only made use of that flashy tactic with CE Guile in AE since they can't tech my throws hehe...its too bad AE is not ever going to be in EVO again:sad:

[MinhHoang]

Hey guys, I've recently started playing guile on GGPO and hes pretty fun. But what I'm having problems with is what to do vs dic players. After headstomps it seems like they're perfectly safe. Are there any tips with this match up?

[rikstron]

When I try to combo a cross-up LK into a cr. MP, it just doesn't seem to combo. Any help? I can only get it to combo maybe 10% of the time.

[Footsy Bebop]

your short is probably making contact too high, try to time it/space it so your short hits lower on your opponent.

[Mavrick]

Hey guys, I've recently started playing guile on GGPO and hes pretty fun. But what I'm having problems with is what to do vs dic players. After headstomps it seems like they're perfectly safe. Are there any tips with this match up?

Not really much you can do but, try to anticipate a head stomp then counter with a air throw. If it lands and they cross you over with the flip you have two option try to attack and hit first or double hit and, or just block. 3 if they head stomp and jump away you can follow up woth a SB but, careful because they could be charging a second head stomp.

[MinhHoang]

Yeah, thats what I figured =/ Thanks

[Mixah]

subscribes

[CrotchMonkey]

Someones got to help me with honda and chun, worst matchups for me yet. Against chun, my c.mk gets stuffed, and c.fp doesn't seem to even trade with her jumps and I get thrown like crazy. She even has a fb :shake:. Every damn attack seems to end with her lightning kick shit right in my face, so even if I was blocking I can't even throw a sonic boom without touching a leg. Should I just rh flash kick through it or something? Wait for her to stop and then go from there? I get some kind of opening vibe from that like I need to do something.

Similar situation with honda. I mean the amount of chip damage I take from honda because of the hand slaps is insane. Biggest problem with honda is if I get tripped I'm fucked. His meaties along with the crossups involving his fat ass is killing me here. I can't even do shit to him once he hits the ground because I get 360'd. Is this match supposed to be a keepaway fest for guile? I can't even do that right.

Anyone have any insight on these two matchups?

[Mixah]

against honda, you have to keep away. if you're worried about getting tick'd, his knee hop can be used against a tick throw to escape it... but watch out because it does put you back in distance to be tick'd anyway.

remember that no matter which side you're on, down is down.... if he does the ass splash crossup, lk flash kick immediately.. don't do hk... if you wait to long, try to block it... it will win as long as you get it off around the peak of the attack.

thousand hands are like blanka's electric... he's too close, reversal throw. remember to always maintain that charge... sonic booms to keep away... if he does the ass splash to hop over it, walk up and trip... move back... that's the basic stuff to help this fight.

[Battosai]

Someones got to help me with honda and chun, worst matchups for me yet. Against chun, my c.mk gets stuffed, and c.fp doesn't seem to even trade with her jumps and I get thrown like crazy. She even has a fb :shake:. Every damn attack seems to end with her lightning kick shit right in my face, so even if I was blocking I can't even throw a sonic boom without touching a leg. Should I just rh flash kick through it or something? Wait for her to stop and then go from there? I get some kind of opening vibe from that like I need to do something.



Anyone have any insight on these two matchups?


Guile's low forward has been raped since Super SF2, therefore chun's low forward out prioritizes it, therefore you can't turtle with the low forward like in CE or HF which sucks ass and his low forward is transparent at times and she will walk right threw it and she will start doing those annoying far standing strongs or fake it then walk up random super in your face...so be careful with it.

Against the lighting kick I would short kick flash kick it, but make sure to crouch block it before u do that...since it will push you back a little.

Against chun's jump ins you need to use neutral standing forward kick, then follow it up immediately with a jump towards and short kick + c.jab+ sonic boom or if she gets hit by the jump in use flash kick instead. Also if you do a sonic boom and she decides to jump over it you could also use the knee bazooka to escape her jump ins. Use stand jab when she tries to cross up you on the other side.

It's a pain in the ass match to win with this toned down guile to be honest, but its winnable if you keep the offense on her rather then being defensive, just don't let her mobilize. Good way to be on the offense is throw a boom, follow it with a ducking short, then ducking forward kick+ sonic boom(when she absorbs it with a fireball back hand her or use the towards and sobat kick, then when she jumps use neutral standing forward kick. Also when you knock her down make sure to cross up with short + low strong + flash kick or if blocked use standing strong + boom after the low strong mix it up with throws.

Here is a video of muteki vs a chun li player and it shows how you should play against her. I hope this all helps you out bro, take care.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VK79QTAc8aY&NR=1




Bradford

[brian]

Nice link battosai.

Unfortunately though I think its really hard to learn how to fight Chun Li by watching Japanese match vids. Until you learn the anti airs for the match, you just sit there wondering why the Chun Li's in the videos arent jumping, and you dont learn anything.

To beat Chun Li you *have* to have your anti airs down solid, and unfortunately against her, you need to use a variety of anti airs depending on the range. So you really have to be constantly aware of what range shes jumping from to know which anti air to choose.

Close standing forward if she jumps from fairly close to you.
Walk under standing close strong if shes even closer.
From other ranges Low fierce works reasonably well, and if it gets outrioritized, you can often have a flash kick charged to hit her when she lands (especially if she reaction jumped a sonic boom).
Theres sort of a sweet spot jump in range where far standing strong actually works well as an anti air.. this is something Im currently learning. You can see Muteki do it once in the video Battosai posted.
From farther ranges, sobat kick (towards or back or neutral + forward kick) trades with her jump ins, you just have to choose whether to do it neutral or moving to hit her in the right way for the trade. From extra far ranges you can also make her land on a low foward.
Quicky jump towards fierce is also useful sometimes.

Before you are a master of these anti airs, dont even worry about anything else in the match, this stuff is too important.

Other than that:

-If you get a knockdown, Guile's crossup is nicely ambiguous against Chun = free wins. If she does her flashkick move making you whiff, flashkick her to knock her back down.
-Sobat kick is better than low forward, as in many matchups.
-you can anticipate her super and nail her with a jump back roundhouse. If you guess wrong you're fairly safe anyway.
-jab sonic booms are almost safe against her super, unless shes really close to you.
-Don't worry so much about getting thrown. Just tech the throws... big deal you took a little damage. (tech the throws fairly safely by doing low strong.. you can even mash it.. then you arent at so much risk of eating low forward-> low rh or whatever)

[CrotchMonkey]

against honda, you have to keep away. if you're worried about getting tick'd, his knee hop can be used against a tick throw to escape it... but watch out because it does put you back in distance to be tick'd anyway.

remember that no matter which side you're on, down is down.... if he does the ass splash crossup, lk flash kick immediately.. don't do hk... if you wait to long, try to block it... it will win as long as you get it off around the peak of the attack.

thousand hands are like blanka's electric... he's too close, reversal throw. remember to always maintain that charge... sonic booms to keep away... if he does the ass splash to hop over it, walk up and trip... move back... that's the basic stuff to help this fight.

Wait you mean I can reversal throw if he does the thousand hand? How close are we talking here because by the time I'm up I'm already in blockstun.

chun stuff

Thanks for that video, I can already see some situations muteki handles that will really save my ass. I'll try to keep that combo in mind so I can at least try to get some pressure on her without feeling too defensive.

chun stuff

Man that's a lot of shit for antiair. For crossing her up, is it me or is the range really different? I keep actually missing her when I go for a j short. Should I be attempting to do the move as a regular jump in and hope the ambiguousness crosses her up? lol

Thanks all of you guys for the quick responses.

[Mixah]

within his throw range, whatever that might be. Im' not sure, pixel-wise, but you just have to learn to judge, either block or hit f+hp as soon as you rise up. The same can be done with blanka's electric. remember tho, thousand hand and lightening legs are able to be done at a greater distance than electric, so don't expect to throw a knowing honda out of it.

[wolf_1]

basically what's been said...

i have the hardest time crossing up chun. i have the hardest time trying to anti air chun. GODDDAMNNNNN

[brian]

If you find that your crossup on chun is whiffing, try pressing the button a touch earlier, and doing the crossup a touch closser to the "original" side.

[jae hoon]

This may have been covered already and I apologize if it is. I really just started ST not to long ago and I have alot of trouble with good T Hawk players. The matches are always close but it seems alot of my stuff gets out prioritized during the match. Also Sonic Booms dont seem to be to safe to do.

[fatboy]

8/15/08 Post....Snip......

Sick post as always Brian.

[lw3]

does dictator have more throw priority over guile cause i keep getting thrown out of crossup lk, lp or mpxxflashkick when playing on ggpo

[N-Trade]

does dictator have more throw priority over guile cause i keep getting thrown out of crossup lk, lp or mpxxflashkick when playing on ggpo

I'm assuming you're being thrown after the crossup lk but before the low lp/mp... this is because you're mistiming the crossup. You need to time the crossup later (Guile needs to be closer to the ground when it hits) so that the low mp combos... if there's a gap in between then you can be thrown.

Important note: there's no such thing as one character having specific throw priority over another. Bison does have a greater throw range than guile's which some people confuse as priority. I can elaborate on this if you like, but this does not pertain to your above problem.

[Sanjuro_The_Ronin]

This may have been covered already and I apologize if it is. I really just started ST not to long ago and I have alot of trouble with good T Hawk players. The matches are always close but it seems alot of my stuff gets out prioritized during the match. Also Sonic Booms dont seem to be to safe to do.

Your joking right?

The Gule vs. Hawk match-up is nothing but an uphill fight for T-Hawk. SBs are safe to do IF you do them right and you really dont have that much to fear of your cr.forward getting DPed because of the angle of Hawks DP.

Just turtle your ass off, thats all you really need to do.

[Mixah]

Your joking right?

The Gule vs. Hawk match-up is nothing but an uphill fight for T-Hawk. SBs are safe to do IF you do them right and you really dont have that much to fear of your cr.forward getting DPed because of the angle of Hawks DP.

Just turtle your ass off, thats all you really need to do.

Give the guy a break, he said he's just started the game...

[brian]

So, I think my nemisis in ST is the following:

I knock down Rog, and want to do safe jump roundhouse, stand fierce, fierce sonic boom. It auto dizzies if it connects, and if its blocked it pushes Rog back significantly across the screen giving you lots of space.

It sounds trivial but for some reason I fail at this some ridiculous fraction of the time. The basic problem seems to be that the jump roundhouse has a lot of pushback, and if you don't time things well, your stand fierce will whiff, or possibly even become far stand fierce instead of close stand fierce. Needless to say, when these things happen you are fucked.

Wolf, if you're lurking, I have the impression you are way more consistent at this than me.. do you have any trick to it, or is it just automatic and I suck? :sad:

PS, Rog's standing sprite is set farther back than his ducking sprite which is what makes crossing him up inconsistent.. I wonder if this could also be screwing me up on the above combo?

[Footsy Bebop]

Just do jump forward instead of jump roundhouse

[brian]

Just do jump forward instead of jump roundhouse

If you do that then it won't dizzy on hit, and I *believe* it will also not push Rog back to a range where you can safely throw a second sonic boom without fear of being rush punched.

[fatboy]

So, I think my nemisis in ST is the following:

I knock down Rog, and want to do safe jump roundhouse, stand fierce, fierce sonic boom. It auto dizzies if it connects, and if its blocked it pushes Rog back significantly across the screen giving you lots of space.

It sounds trivial but for some reason I fail at this some ridiculous fraction of the time. The basic problem seems to be that the jump roundhouse has a lot of pushback, and if you don't time things well, your stand fierce will whiff, or possibly even become far stand fierce instead of close stand fierce. Needless to say, when these things happen you are fucked.

Wolf, if you're lurking, I have the impression you are way more consistent at this than me.. do you have any trick to it, or is it just automatic and I suck?

PS, Rog's standing sprite is set farther back than his ducking sprite which is what makes crossing him up inconsistent.. I wonder if this could also be screwing me up on the above combo?.

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/2581/rogcopytz5.th.jpg (http://img137.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rogcopytz5.jpg)

Check this out. (click photo.) It shows the differnce in Rogs blocking sprite (RED) vs. his standing sprite (BLUE). The blocking sprite moves his body way back. I have to take a half of a step in just to hit the guy once he started blocking.

I did a little testing. Remember in ST you can get up/wake up into a your block sprite. If a Rog holds back to block, by defualt his whole body and damage sprite is moved back on get up.

Maybe whe you are jumping in the Rog player is simply holding back (not trying to BH or anyother thing), and thus is hit much futher out on your extended leg, and then is pushed back from where the the leg crosses the block, and not form where he got up.

If you think about it, that would push him farther out on your combo and cause your fierce to whiff or change to the far standing fierce. Maybe you need to jump a we bit closer? I am not a GUile a player so I do not know how this would help you. But it was fun to explore, I am no authory but it would make sense on why he is falling out of the combo.

[brian]

Well, then suppose you space your jump in closer so that when he blocks he wont get pushed too far back.

The key question is, if he *doesnt* block, like suppose he stays in crouch, are you now so far forward that you will whiff your jump roundhouse over his head?

If this was the case I think it would explain my problems performing this combo.

But I dunno, I see Muteki and Kurahashi Guile do this consistently, and I could be wrong but I thought Wolf was doing this also.

Perhaps there is a small window of spacing where it works, but the above considerations explain why this window is so small?

[Mixah]

nice explaination fatboy

[wolf_1]

regarding jump rh > close standing fp > fierce sonic boom combo:

after every knockdown i always attempt the above combo. obviously if you sweep balrog or if he techs a throw then this will not work. i haven't really put much thought into this situation but i just simply find the right spacing for the jump-in and then hit balrog low and deep. from what i've noticed, my close standing FP usually whiffs if my jump-in was placed too far out. for the most part, whenever i whiff FP, my fierce sonic boom will usually come out. i don't remember what happens if balrog just crouches while you are going for the jump-in.

success rate for me on this combo is about 60 to 75 percent. most of my mistakes come from mis-timing the jump-in rather than having incorrect spacing.

basically, there really isn't a trick to it, just make sure you can get yourself close enough to do close standing FP.

mixup strat - if you pull this combo off balrog atleast 2 times in a row, go for a tick throw on the third opportunity/knockdown.

[Battosai]

regarding jump rh > close standing fp > fierce sonic boom combo:

after every knockdown i always attempt the above combo. obviously if you sweep balrog or if he techs a throw then this will not work. i haven't really put much thought into this situation but i just simply find the right spacing for the jump-in and then hit balrog low and deep. from what i've noticed, my close standing FP usually whiffs if my jump-in was placed too far out. for the most part, whenever i whiff FP, my fierce sonic boom will usually come out. i don't remember what happens if balrog just crouches while you are going for the jump-in.

success rate for me on this combo is about 60 to 75 percent. most of my mistakes come from mis-timing the jump-in rather than having incorrect spacing.

basically, there really isn't a trick to it, just make sure you can get yourself close enough to do close standing FP.

mixup strat - if you pull this combo off balrog atleast 2 times in a row, go for a tick throw on the third opportunity/knockdown.

lol, yeah that happens to me alot to, I use j. foward kick + stand fierce+ sonic boom on rog as a meaty.

Btw: Wolf1 you were right about how much Guiles flash kick sucks ass in SF4, you basicly cant even use it as an anti air anymore and that is what guile is know for is his Flash kick and not to mention that SJSU SF4 has stiff ass P 360's on them(i had hard time getting a flash kick out). I got really frustrated losing to freakin cvs2 and 3rd strike players at SF4....bullshit man, I expected to get a big ass 25 wins and take off like ST at the arcade, but nope not in SF4,:lame:

[wolf_1]

foward kick + stand fierce+ sonic boom on rog as a meaty.

is this possibly a trade off? like brian stated, if you open with roundhouse and if the combo connects, it's a guaranteed dizzy. if you open up with forward, you won't pull off a dizzy but you'll possibly have a better chance of connecting the close standing fierce?

[Battosai]

is this possibly a trade off? like brian stated, if you open with roundhouse and if the combo connects, it's a guaranteed dizzy. if you open up with forward, you won't pull off a dizzy but you'll possibly have a better chance of connecting the close standing fierce?

You will have a better chance connecting the stand fierce after a jump forward kick yes but no dizzy.

[fatboy]

Perhaps there is a small window of spacing where it works, but the above considerations explain why this window is so small?

I'd imagine the "small window" would be starting the jump-in about half the length of Sim's hand closer to Rog. (going off of above photo) That way you don't over shoot, but are ever so much closer to connect the combo.

I think Rog is one of the few characters in ST thats narrower while blocking and in defensive crouch.

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/2279/rogcopy2kr9.th.jpg (http://img187.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rogcopy2kr9.jpg)

In this image you have Rog's three hit boxes. Neutral (blue), Back (red) , and Defensive Crouch (black). Compare it the photo above. Both defensive positions pull Rog back from his neutral stance.

[djfrijoles]

snip


LOL you fucker I just noticed your sig :rofl:

[Footsy Bebop]

How about j.fwd, low strong, sonic boom, low fwd.? that should dizzy and should give you the spacing you want and should be easier to connect. I think.

[brian]

I tried all the combos of that sort that I could think of and unfortunately none of them actually fully connected mid screen on Rog.

[wolf_1]

im starting to become less consistent with the combo now.

[brian]

damn I jinxed you lol

[Dwin]

Im having some promblems with my guile play st lately, mostly ever since ive been playing guile i havent used any combos a al basically playing all my matches whti pokes and zoning, is their any way i can incorporate guile combos inot my game because its really hrin me damage wise.

Also is there anyway to punish dictators head stomp thanx.

[comoesa]

Need help with this combo

crossup lk, c.lk, c.lk,/c.lp,c.lp, xx, super


You have to kara the super with lp right any tips on the timing?

[ShinVega]

Yes, but when you Kara you should enter c.short~c.jab+Up/Twds (or Up/Away depending on super motion used). That's how you renda cancel the jab into the super. You're tricking the game engine into allowing you to cancel chain combos into supers.

[SiYkO]

Hi, I have been playing guile for about a week, and found a new puzzle I can't seem to solve.

I played against a blanka who had a relatively simple game. I could hold him off at long range, but he often managed to work his way in. Once he did, he would jump over my sonic boom, and do a very late J.Fierce. I have no charge, but I have time to block this. Sometimes he jumps again after this, but since I gave up the flash kick charge to block high, I block again.

When I do, he moves in, and invariably does his bite throw. After this, it's a sweep-range standoff as I decide to save the flash kick charge and try to outpoke him, or throw a sonic boom and repeat the same thing.

When I try to beat the jumping attack with a normal (c.fierce or s.roundhouse with o.guile), I either trade infavorably, or lose.

I managed to get around this by holding forward when he jumps over the sonic, and sacrifice throwing his air attack - is there a better option to beat this?

Thanks for any help, this thread has been great.

[comoesa]

Yes, but when you Kara you should enter c.short~c.jab+Up/Twds (or Up/Away depending on super motion used). That's how you renda cancel the jab into the super. You're tricking the game engine into allowing you to cancel chain combos into supers.



Oh thanks i was actually pressing the jab befre I pressed the short..

[Xeno-V]

Hey guys, I read like half of this thread a few hours ago and then I went to play a bit and try some stuff (I never played Guile before and charge characters in general, but now I got a stick and they all seem much easier).

First of all the b, df, ub+K method for Guile's super works like a charm, thanks a lot.
I managed to do the cr lk x2 xx super and it's not that hard to pull off. I have more trouble in doing cr mp xx super but does that make sense? I do like db, df+mp, ub+k and 9 out of 10 times I get a sonic boom.

The second question would sound stupid because i didn't start from the basics but how can you do consecutive sonic booms? In SRK wiki it says that you should kara cancel certain moves so that you decrease their recovery time.
Is this what most people do?

I also can't do that many SBs when pressing opponents with Cr. LPs, Cr MKs etc.

Finally I don't know what im doing wrong but cr lk, st lk, flash kick came out like 1 time out of 10. Probably im doing something wrong and im losing the charge...
I just hold db and press lk, then go neutral and press lk again and immediately after i press u+lk but nothing comes out.
So.. what could I be doing wrong?

[Python9109]

Hey guys, quick question:

Will a j. short/j. jab, c. jab, jab sonic boom give me a good tick throw? I've tried it out in training and it seems to work well (especially with the opponent cornered), but is it too obvious that I'm gonna follow up the sonic boom with a throw? I could always mix it up with a c. forward or an upsidedown kick [which will be an overhead in hd remix ;) ] or maybe a backfist. You're thoughts on this?

edit: Just thought of another question: is it possible to keep your back charge while crossing up you're opponent? I know the person defending the cross up can keep their charge by switching joystick posistions as soon as their opponent's directly overhead. I've been trying to do this as soon as a land but I always lose my charge.

[ShinVega]

Hey guys, quick question:

an upsidedown kick [which will be an overhead in hd remix ;) ] You're thoughts on this?

edit: Just thought of another question: is it possible to keep your back charge while crossing up you're opponent? I know the person defending the cross up can keep their charge by switching joystick posistions as soon as their opponent's directly overhead. I've been trying to do this as soon as a land but I always lose my charge.

O_O In that case I'm changing my main to Guile in HD Remix (always thought close st.RH should be an overhead anyways, hell it's over their head :rofl: jk). As far as them expecting a throw after the chain + special, they won't until you do it more than once in a round/match depending on how many you've already played. Definitely mix up your style (when possible) as much as possible. I never want my opponent to have any idea of what's coming next (why it's always good to throw out safe pokes at all times). Yes, just switch the direction you're charging as soon as you cross the "mirror" (same way you execute supers and specials when crossed). It just takes practice and getting to know that exact vertical line over your opp., best way I can explain to do it

[Python9109]

Thx, good to know

edit: This is going to reveal my status as a noob , but what are safe pokes? My understanding was quick recovery, high priority moves you could use on an advancing opponent to keep them back. I've seen alot of players (guile players in particular) seem to randomly throw in jabs and such for apparently no reason. Are they hoping to keep their opponent at bay or hit him on the way in? I've noticed alot of good guile players (muteki and kurahashi) ussually jab a few times between sonic booms. Is this to get their timing down?

[Thelo]

I've seen alot of players (guile players in particular) seem to randomly throw in jabs and such for apparently no reason. Are they hoping to keep their opponent at bay or hit him on the way in? I've noticed alot of good guile players (muteki and kurahashi) ussually jab a few times between sonic booms. Is this to get their timing down?
I don't know if there's another reason, but as Honda against Guiles like that, it makes it a lot harder for me to know when to expect a sonic boom. I'm concentrating on Guile's sprite, ready to jump at the moment he throws a boom, and when I see a quick jab I tend to mistake it for the startup of a sonic boom and I jump to my doom.

Against a Guile who doesn't randomly jab like that, I can just reaction jump or buttslam at the moment I see any movement from Guile, because 99% of the time it'll mean a sonic boom.

[ShinVega]

Thx, good to know

edit: This is going to reveal my status as a noob , but what are safe pokes? My understanding was quick recovery, high priority moves you could use on an advancing opponent to keep them back. I've seen alot of players (guile players in particular) seem to randomly throw in jabs and such for apparently no reason. Are they hoping to keep their opponent at bay or hit him on the way in? I've noticed alot of good guile players (muteki and kurahashi) ussually jab a few times between sonic booms. Is this to get their timing down?

I think your just misunderstanding a few basic principles. The best way to win matches IMO is with mind games (assuming your execution is perfect, and you have a solid defense->offense (game plan)). Safe pokes are any moves you can execute that your opp. cannot counter (example: cr.foward for guile is NOT a safe poke against gief b/c he can counter with cr.RH). The poke doesn't necessarily have to make contact with the opp. (I should have used a better term than safe poke) but only throw out pokes that cannot be countered/will leave you vulnerable. The idea is that if you're constantly throwing out moves (at what seems like random to your opp.) they will have less choices in attacking you; a lot of people will get "scared/nervous" because they have absolutely no idea what to expect. Many players depend on patterns and general game plan strategies (Note: if you don't have a game plan to begin with you're more than likely going to lose the match; being random only comes with knowing your overall game plan) to win, but forget the mind games. As far as what individuals do I couldn't tell you the reason, however, I can tell you that Muteki and Kurahashi don't use the jab's to keep the timing down (once it's in your head it's stuck there IMO); I assume there just keeping safe attacks going.
:tup:

[vieja escuela]

I'd like to know if the combo standing hp/super was ever achieved in tournament.

[SweetJohnnyV]

I've seen alot of players (guile players in particular) seem to randomly throw in jabs and such for apparently no reason. Are they hoping to keep their opponent at bay or hit him on the way in? I've noticed alot of good guile players (muteki and kurahashi) ussually jab a few times between sonic booms. Is this to get their timing down?

There's a few reason why people do this:

1. Like others mentioned, the constant stream of motion from your opponent makes it harder to react to a "real" move.

2. If you're doing any move and your opponent tries to walk backwards they'll block instead of walking backwards. So, at mid range this can sometimes be useful to keep your opponent locked into place.

3. At closer range, throwing out quick high-priority moves acts as a make-shift shield. If the do something unexpected quickly your move is likely to beat, or at least trade with it. For example, against Blanka or E.Honda spamming jabs will stop their ball/torpedo attacks. Less obviously, moves like this can stop far pokes or jump-ins.

4. I forget which characters, but one or two of characters in ST have a better recovery from their fast fireball if you cancel it from a jab.

5. It makes you look cool :wgrin:

[fatboy]

4. I forget which characters, but one or two of characters in ST have a better recovery from their fast fireball if you cancel it from a jab.



Ryu's fireball, Ken's Fire ball, N.Sagat's Fire balls, Akuma Fireball (non-flame).
(Per NKI@ gamecombo's Frame Data Page)

[Python9109]

Thanks for the responses guys. You really helped clear some things up.

Edit: What do you guys think about this wakeup at 1:07
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsUQ1K5xZBc&feature=related
It looks like a good way to make them block 2 sb. If he had used a jab sonic boom for the second one, he might have been in a good posistion to either tick throw him or hit with something like a sobat

[Balrog=imba]

any more tips about rog?

I struggle with dhalsim too, have to play the distance game , if he gets too close with the slide cheaps im done for

[Sosage]

5. It makes you look cool :wgrin:

5-B. It makes it look like you know what you're doing.

6. It holds YOU still while charging back (not back down). You charge without losing ground. This applies to most charge characters.

7. Timing. When I am tossing out continual sonic booms, timing with jabs in between can sometimes aid my muscle memory. It comes in handy when I want to toss the next SB with as close to the minimum charge time as possible.

[Ex0dUs27]

the more you know.....



doo doo doo dooo

*star flies across space*

[wolf_1]

any more tips about rog?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdDytnbj4M4

[Python9109]

Ok, I know Guile vs Ryu was "done" earlier in this thread, but I wanted to rehash it. The general concensus was that Guile must tutrle and ryu has to try to get in. Up close, Guile can safely throw sonic booms and backfist if Ryu counters with a fireball. Guile must watch out for the hurricane kick though.

What I'm wondering is why would Ryu put himself in a situation like this? Ryu's not going to lose a fireball war to Guile fullscreen, so why does he need to go in and attack, especially when it's such a b*tch for Guile to try to get in on Ryu? Wouldn't Ryu fare better if he made Guile come to him?

[brian]

The thing is, Guile does pretty much win a fireball fight with Ryu from full screen. Basically because when theyre spamming fireballs, in principle Guile should never get hit.. you can't keep up with the fireballs outright, but when one too many comes your way, you jump back over it if you see its a fast one, and short flashkick/jump straight up over it if you see its a slow one. Assuming you don't screw this up, you can just keep matching fireballs and dodging the odd one forever. Ryu however, risks getting hit by a jump roundhouse to the face every time he throws a fireball. So he can't win this way.

Of course depending on what exactly Ryu does it will get more complicated, but this is the general point.

*the fact that Ryu eventually gets a super also complicates things, but still, that has no effect on full screen fireball wars.

[Python9109]

Oh, Ok, thx

[brian]

Man the new tier chart Nohoho posted up on his site is shocking. It has Guile losing 6.5-3.5 to Ryu, and beating Blanka 6-4!

I'm speechless.. That doesn't jive with my experience or what Ive seen in vids of top Japanese players either.

[SmoothCat]

Man the new tier chart Nohoho posted up on his site is shocking. It has Guile losing 6.5-3.5 to Ryu, and beating Blanka 6-4!

I'm speechless.. That doesn't jive with my experience or what Ive seen in vids of top Japanese players either. beating blanka.......japs have lost there mind

[wolf_1]

Man the new tier chart Nohoho posted up on his site is shocking. It has Guile losing 6.5-3.5 to Ryu, and beating Blanka 6-4!

I'm speechless.. That doesn't jive with my experience or what Ive seen in vids of top Japanese players either.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyjOy7fRzs0

[Battosai]

I had played against Alex Valle on GGPO last friday, really intense matches. He first played ken then switched to old Sagat and then his N. Ryu and I was using Old Guile, I think we played more than 50 games and I forgot to record them unfortunately. GGs bro.


Wolf_1: "Okay USA" lol...I could never get tired of watching Blood Sport.

[Duck Strong]

The thing is, Guile does pretty much win a fireball fight with Ryu from full screen. Basically because when theyre spamming fireballs, in principle Guile should never get hit.. you can't keep up with the fireballs outright, but when one too many comes your way, you jump back over it if you see its a fast one, and short flashkick/jump straight up over it if you see its a slow one. Assuming you don't screw this up, you can just keep matching fireballs and dodging the odd one forever. Ryu however, risks getting hit by a jump roundhouse to the face every time he throws a fireball. So he can't win this way.
Of course depending on what exactly Ryu does it will get more complicated, but this is the general point.

*the fact that Ryu eventually gets a super also complicates things, but still, that has no effect on full screen fireball wars.

Totally disagree with the part in bold. Guile has nothing on Ryu in the air. If the Ryu player is jumping from full screen, he'll be ready with his jump roundhouse which will stuff yours. This is a 50/50 scenario at best.

Best thing for Guile to do would be to take the offensive and, if he guesses correctly, jump a fireball from fullscreen. He can then stuff Ryu with his longer reaching jump roundhouse.

[Evilink]

I came to the realization that I really suck at guile, I knew I sucked but thought I was getting better, but I can't even pull off his Super. It's fucking disheartening to not be able to pull it off, not even in practice. I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong but no matter how I try it I fail miserably, the best I get is a flash kick out of the ordeal. It doesn't help that I just started playing ST on a custom stick with a JLF, but its no excuse.

[brian]

I came to the realization that I really suck at guile, I knew I sucked but thought I was getting better, but I can't even pull off his Super. It's fucking disheartening to not be able to pull it off, not even in practice. I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong but no matter how I try it I fail miserably, the best I get is a flash kick out of the ordeal. It doesn't help that I just started playing ST on a custom stick with a JLF, but its no excuse.

Just one more week and you won't have to worry about it. :)

Personally I charge down-back, then when I want to do the super, I just do a quick half circle from down-towards to up-back

Duck Strong you seem to have misunderstood the sentence you bolded. I was referring specifically to the possibility of Guile guessing a fireball from full screen and hitting Ryu with a jump rh.

[ShinVega]

This is some of the most useful information for the guile vs ryu match up. Neither character is going to jump in (unless the opp. makes a fatal mistake and mistimes a fireball) so it will likely resort to the ground game. This is a tough match up for me cause it involves being extremely patient :rofl:
http://nki.combovideos.com/data.html#ryuguile

I came to the realization that I really suck at guile, I knew I sucked but thought I was getting better, but I can't even pull off his Super. It's fucking disheartening to not be able to pull it off, not even in practice. I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong but no matter how I try it I fail miserably, the best I get is a flash kick out of the ordeal. It doesn't help that I just started playing ST on a custom stick with a JLF, but its no excuse.

Perform the easy motion if your not: dn/away_, dn/twds, up/away+short~foward~RH~release short~release foward~release RH

I'm not sure what kind of gate your stick has but mine is square and Guile's super is fairly easy to perform (since the motion is just corner to corner). You really don't have to do the motion lighting fast, make sure you have the correct directional input by slowly practicing the motion; getting your hand eye coordination use to it. Make sure your using the piano key input to make things easier on yourself.

[Battosai]

jeez look how many points more CE and HF Guile have over ST Guile(weak low forward) on the crouch forward kick. I hope Sirlin anded more hit boxes to his low forward in HD, from the Gamespot vids it looks like he did...I hope.

[brian]

He didn't.

[Sanjuro_The_Ronin]

jeez look how many points more CE and HF Guile have over ST Guile(weak low forward) on the crouch forward kick. I hope Sirlin anded more hit boxes to his low forward in HD, from the Gamespot vids it looks like he did...I hope.

I think your making the low foward hit boxes a bigger deal then it really is. According to YBH CE and HF Guile's low foward hit box is only a tad better then Super and ST Guile's.

[theMeanGreen]

I came to the realization that I really suck at guile, I knew I sucked but thought I was getting better, but I can't even pull off his Super. It's fucking disheartening to not be able to pull it off, not even in practice. I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong but no matter how I try it I fail miserably, the best I get is a flash kick out of the ordeal. It doesn't help that I just started playing ST on a custom stick with a JLF, but its no excuse.

Try watching your fingers to make sure your are doing the motion correctly. After lots of practice, you should have some muscle memory. Just make sure your motions are real strict. Also i would start off by doing the motion somewhat slowly and pick up the pace until the move goes off.

[Python9109]

Can anyone give me or point me to a rundown on a guile vs fei long matchup? IN particular, what do you do if Fei long jumps a sonic boom on reaction from a bit outside low forward range? Is you best option to block? Can you trade or clean hit him with anything?

[Battosai]

He didn't.

Gee thats too bad


Sanjuro_The_Ronin: I think you really need to play CE and HF Guile again and compare them to the ST versions on AE using his crouching forward kick(for defence and offence) on 2df against a ST chun li or ST rog player, then you will know its a vital difference my friend.

[shockwave]

i wanted to ask, in the link below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F98p0yNnb1I

at appx 0:46, guile jumps at balrog with jumping jab, c.short, standing short, into sonic kick. whats the best way to do this, or is there an "easy trick" to make this combo come out? i've seen combos with standing fierce into sonic kick, but this was somewhat more difficult.

also, in the vid below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nyLMWgVZ4E

at appx 0:29, you have guile jumping in with roundhouse, into low strong, into super. what is the easiest method to perform this. actually, at what frame of animation should the super motion be initiated?

[ShinVega]

i wanted to ask, in the link below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F98p0yNnb1I

at appx 0:46, guile jumps at balrog with jumping jab, c.short, standing short, into sonic kick. whats the best way to do this, or is there an "easy trick" to make this combo come out? i've seen combos with standing fierce into sonic kick, but this was somewhat more difficult.

also, in the vid below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nyLMWgVZ4E

at appx 0:29, you have guile jumping in with roundhouse, into low strong, into super. what is the easiest method to perform this. actually, at what frame of animation should the super motion be initiated?

Learn the Renda Kara Cancel. 1st question here's what guile did: j.jab+_dn, c.short, n+short, up~jab~short (or he could have negative edged the second short at the Cancel)

The second combo can be performed by j.RH+_dn/away, dn/towards~cr.strong~up/away+short~foward~RH

[shockwave]

Learn the Renda Kara Cancel

where is the thread that explains this in detail?

what guile did: j.jab+_dn, c.short, n+short, up~jab~short (or he could have negative edged the second short at the Cancel)


in the up~jab~short portion, what purpose is the jab? it doesnt even come out at that point, and what is negative edge?

assume that i am a beginner, as some of these terms are not familiar

[zaspacer]

Here is a link to a webpage that lists links to youtube character matchups for ST Guile:
http://gizmo.zendfree.com/superturbo/guile/matches/guilematches.html

Most the players are Japanese, and most the footage is from Japanese Tournaments.

I wanted to get this out before the release of STHD.
My HTML skills are pretty weak, so the formatting is still rough.
This is a collection of links that I have had for some time, and I have found personally useful in improving my game.

The BEST way I have found to use these links, is to reference the appropriate ones AFTER I get my butt kicked by a particular character.
That way I'm hungry to pick up specific things that will help me in that matchup.

Enjoy!

[N-Trade]

snip!

Bro, that's incredible... thanks a lot man!

Edit: looks great too, clean and nice website... google style!

[incognegro]

I have been watching and reading forums for the last couple of days but I have not seen anything in here that explains how you can get something like a c.mp, N, s.j, flashkick. How does something like that work. Also, if you think that I am talking jibberish then tell me how to maintain a charge while moving and is there specific ones that can do it.

[ShinVega]

Note: you cannot keep a charge after the stick leaves the direction your charging (no walking flash kicks, however, the frame window for fireballs does allow you to walk forward ever so slightly before pressing punch, same reason why the combo you mentioned works).
Here's the input command:

dn_,cr.mp, n+jab~up+kick (You can use the piano method to make things a little easier)

[zaspacer]

Note: you cannot keep a charge after the stick leaves the direction your charging

Except for a horizontal charge when an opponent switches sides on your character.

I've also seen YuuVega (maybe it was Taira) walk up slightly before doing a super with Dictator.
However, I can't find the youtube footage after some brief searching. :/