Guile thread [Archive]

TarkanX

08-24-2006, 10:11 PM

This thread is about Guile and how to use him to his highest potential.

From what I've gathered, Guile is basically a turtle character that uses the sonic boom to determine what should be done next. Sonic Booms should be thrown from full screen away and sometimes mid-screen (this depends on the opponents general speed). c.forward is a good spacer and c.short, although having shorter range, comes out quickly and can be followed up (but not chained) with c.forward. His best ground throw is his strong throw.

Guile has probably one of the best cross-ups in the game, his j.short. It is very strange in that unlike other cross-ups, you have to really think hard to block it due to its "zaniness". His cross-up can lead up to damaging combos, and you can continue the process again when the opponent gets knocked down. Is it me, or is it hard to execute? I was playing CE Guile and when I knocked down my opponent, I'd go for a j.short, but instead, I'd hit nothing and when I landed on the ground, I'd get thrown... is this my problem, or is it a CE/AE problem, or is it just hard?

Moves that can be cancelled into specials/super
----------------------------------------------------
s.jab
s.strong (close and far)
s.fierce (close)
s.short (neutral)
c.jab
c.strong
c.short (into s.short)
c.fierce (only into super)

With this thread, hopefully we could get some basics of specific properties of normal moves and how they should be used, how to efficiently use his sonic boom tactics (to get faster timing, and follow-ups), spacing, combos, what to do in the corner, and match-up strategies.

Guile videos
----------------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9R0sgOaJvMU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nyLMWgVZ4E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vNFYa-8l7k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K42--KGVgY8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HH4aKZJ6ugk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM-gj6yu4e4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnBa8RTPFGg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqDciGQWSGA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTLjCJslmCM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o63hEQkKjTY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1d2gb-dUfw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uPIW4Vvlq8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dxqwecwk45I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkqAGGZm0nI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0hW3KnbcNI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qaHfP_22Lg

Spirited_Away

08-26-2006, 12:46 PM

Here is a neat trick with Guile, it's very useful vs Dhalsim.
N.Guile can actually rapid fire standing short and then charge back for a Sonic boom. You won't get a knee bazooka !!

ToXY

08-26-2006, 01:21 PM

Moves that can be cancelled into specials
----------------------------------------------------
s.jab
s.strong (close and far)
s.fierce (close)
c.jab
c.strong
c.short (link?)

Also c.fierce, s.short, also c.short also.

TarkanX

08-26-2006, 02:47 PM

Here is a neat trick with Guile, it's very useful vs Dhalsim.
N.Guile can actually rapid fire standing short and then charge back for a Sonic boom. You won't get a knee bazooka !!

Do you mean O.Guile? Because if N.Guile charges back while doing s.short, he uses the knee bazooka

Also c.fierce, s.short, also c.short also.

Are those supposed to be linked or are they canceled?

Spirited_Away

08-26-2006, 09:30 PM

Actrually if you do neutral rapid fire s.shorts and then CHARGE back (while still doing s.shorts) you won't get a knee bazooka at all ! it's weird but it works.

ToXY

08-26-2006, 10:43 PM

Are those supposed to be linked or are they canceled?

they are cancelable

TarkanX

08-27-2006, 01:47 PM

Anti-Air (New Guile)
------------
s.strong (when opponent is directly above you)

s.fierce (hook and backfist for opponents jump towards you, backfist is better)

knee bazooka (for opponents jumping towards you)

s.forward (for opponents jumping toward you, it will generate a diffent type of attack when opponents are directly above you)

c.strong (for opponents that attack in the air, they hit nothing and when they land, get comboed/thrown)

c.fierce (done early for opponents directly above you)

c.roundhouse (for trip guard, although it's not too good)

Air throw (j.strong/j.fierce)

j.fierce

j.roundhouse (has a lot of range to knock the opponents out of the air)

Flash Kick (short version is usually the best one to do)

TarkanX

08-27-2006, 03:31 PM

they are cancelable

I can cancel s.short, and c.short into s.short into sonic boom/flash kick, but I can't seem to cancel c.fierce into anything. Does this have to be done early or late?

dogberry

08-27-2006, 07:44 PM

low fierce can only cancel into super.

just to clear things up.

Jorant

08-27-2006, 09:25 PM

I still have a bitch of a time pulling his super off. I don't know what I'm doing wrong, but I can only do it 25% of the time. Ugh.

Spirited_Away

08-28-2006, 01:10 AM

Easy way is just to charge DB, and then do HCB,BU + K. The super motion can end at Up, Back/Up or Up/Forward.

TarkanX

08-29-2006, 09:31 PM

Combos (New Guile)
---------------------------
c.short x N, s.short xx flash kick

c.jab x N, s.jab xx flash kick

j.fierce/roundhouse, s.fierce xx sonic boom, s.fierce (back hand)

j.fierce/roundhouse, s.fierce xx flash kick

j.fierce/roundhouse, c.strong xx flash kick

j.fierce/roundhouse, c.fierce xx super

Jorant

08-31-2006, 07:05 PM

I just can't seem to hit confirm nor cancel his super. I don't get it. At least I've got his super coming out about 90% of the time... a huge success for me.

TarkanX

09-06-2006, 06:29 PM

Updated the thread with some Guile videos.

I just can't seem to hit confirm nor cancel his super. I don't get it. At least I've got his super coming out about 90% of the time... a huge success for me.

Try this... charge down-back, then move to down-forward, then go to down-forward and press whatever move you want to cancel with, then immediately move to up-forward.

N-Ken

09-13-2006, 03:58 PM

Actrually if you do neutral rapid fire s.shorts and then CHARGE back (while still doing s.shorts) you won't get a knee bazooka at all ! it's weird but it works.

You have to be hitting them though which makes it kinda not that useful

r3ko

09-14-2006, 03:28 AM

FSgamer

09-18-2006, 12:40 PM

Any tips on fighting Dhalsim? He's probably the character who gives me the most trouble.

Se7in

09-18-2006, 07:29 PM

http://youtube.com/watch?v=5nmGxfvhyDw

The first match: Kurahashi's Guile vs. Yoshimura's Sim

As you can see, you have to almost rely entirely on SB's, throw them constantly, but be smart and ALWAYS follow them up with jabs as soon as you throw them. This is where a disadvantage comes in as Sim can simply f. fierce under them and still manage to block the SB. Sim isn't fast enough in the air to go for a jump in without the corkscrew, so don't worry about charging up the FK unless you notice the Sim you're playing likes to jump in with a j. fierce. This is definitely a tough matchup because of Guile's disadvantage to Sim's reach and countering ability to SB's. If you do happen to get in close, hit him with a combo almost immediately because Sim can just slide/noogie or just throw you out of melee range and pelt you with Yoga Fires and his stretches.

Duck Strong

09-19-2006, 02:27 PM

A good combo off of crossup lk is cr.jabx2 into kara-cancelled flashkick. I'm not that great at doing it, but it's good for hit confirming. Short of that you can land and do 3xcr.lk which does an inordinate amount of damage for some reason.

Also, the best way to combo his super is off cr.lkx2,st.lk. Outside of combos, it's uses are minimal given its terrible hitbox. It's ok for anti-air, chipping to death, anti-crossup and point blank reversal in wake-up, but otherwise I'd steer clear. It really is that bad. If I had to point out one glaring flaw in my game it's that I refuse to admit this move is cimplete and utter shit.

Duck Strong

09-19-2006, 03:05 PM

Some more stuff

For anti-airs I'd stick to flashkick, close st.Roundhouse, duck fierce(mostly trades but it's better than having them on your ass without a charge) and cr.forward from far away. Away+forward is also a servicable anti-air, but it's fairly circumstantial. I wouldn't recommend st.strong as an anti-air though. This isn't CvS2 so it has neither the range nor the priority it boasts in that game. Cr. strong is ok if they messup a crossup, but if you're that close I'd go for the throw instead. Close st.forward is also ok if they're directly over you, but I wouldn't abuse it.

It's extremely important to use your normals judiciously with guile. Know their ranges, know what to use when and know when not to stick anything out.

His most useful normals are:

-cr.forward(of course):Although it's been weakened from other games, it is still an outstanding poke that should be used alot. Great range, speed and anti-air properties(remember ST has no trip guard)

-Step-kick:Learn its range to bait and punish sweeps and other low attacks. Great from keeping pressure after a blocked boom or to combo after one connects. Also good for advancing while preserving your charge.

-Backfist:It's good as a pre-emptive anti air or to smack them in the face when your boom neutralizes a fireball. It can be a decent long range poke as well, but remember that it can be ducked. Great dizzy potential.

-Sobat:Learn to time this to go over sweeps and low tigershots. It has great range and mobility. Proper use is crucial if you want to even have a chance and beating OG Sagat.

-Knee Bazooka: Mostly good for the mobility it provides. Using this you can advance quite well while maintaining a charge. This is very useful in wakeup situations. For example, you can force your opponnent to block 2 booms if you knock them down. At mid-screen distance, throw a meaty jab boom, then knee once or twice and throw a fierce boom while they're blocking the first. Then, as they block the second you can do a step kick to keep them blocking as you charge for a third boom or flashkick. Bear in mind that block damage is not negligible in ST. Your opponent(who would already be on the defensive after a knockdown) will want to get out of that corner so you have total control.

I guess that's it for now.

lightofsorrow

10-07-2006, 04:09 AM

just recently i decided to start playing pretty much nothing but Guile in ST. i'm getting my butt handed to me left and right 'cause i'm not very good, but i feel like i'm improving quite a bit. he's hard to use well in ST compared to other versions, i think - probably because there's just so much more to deal with - but i think he's worth mastering.

i'm gonna stay tuned to this thread and maybe use it to track my progress a bit if i find any interesting strategies i like. :)

unledded

10-07-2006, 02:40 PM

Is O. Guile better or N. Guile? Why?

thanks for the replies

TarkanX

10-07-2006, 06:24 PM

What N. Guile has over O.Guile is the throw softening and the super move, as well as being able to move around with his s.forward. O. Guile has his s.Roundhouse as an anti-air and can charge while still rapidly pressing s.short. I'm not sure if O.Guile does more damage than N.Guile, but overall, N.Guile seems to be more effective, especially with the j.short cross-ups.

Se7in

10-07-2006, 08:15 PM

Is Guile's super really even worth it though?

It's a horrible anti air considering it's a super and isn't it pretty hard to connect?

TarkanX

10-07-2006, 08:38 PM

It does suck compared to the other supers, but you can use it for chip if the opponent is on low life, or as a reversal. You can combo it in as well from a cross up j.short.

lightofsorrow

10-09-2006, 12:48 AM

Is Guile's super really even worth it though?

It's a horrible anti air considering it's a super and isn't it pretty hard to connect?

i find it's pretty good in reaction to projectiles if you're close enough to flash kick over them normally...definitely not one of the better supers in the game, though. as anti-air it's alright, better when you have them jumping out of the corner - but there's a weird delay on it that takes some getting used to...

Digitalbooty

12-10-2006, 05:54 PM

Anyone?

ShinVega

12-10-2006, 10:33 PM

Short, Jab, s.Fierce, I know for a fact those can.

Maj

12-11-2006, 02:32 AM

Anything that can be canceled into special moves plus c.HP so:

s.LP, close s.MP, far s.MP, close s.HP, s.LK, c.LP, c.MP, c.HP

You can't cancel c.LK into super but you can chain it into s.LK and then kara-cancel the s.LK into specials or super.

Digitalbooty

12-11-2006, 06:22 PM

Thanks for the info

Digitalbooty

12-11-2006, 06:55 PM

another question, I'm programming the commands but I cant get any of those to properly cancel. Is there something weird about the timing?

Maj

12-11-2006, 08:22 PM

Programming the commands into what?

Digitalbooty

12-11-2006, 08:32 PM

kawaks

Buttermaker

12-12-2006, 06:10 AM

db~~~,3,df,d,db,u4

Digitalbooty

12-12-2006, 02:43 PM

Thanks a lot. THat worked. Now, I'm jus trying to figure out how possible it is for me to do it with a joystick.

Btw, how long can kawaks macros be?

LuvMyCap

03-12-2007, 12:10 PM

LuvMyCap

03-14-2007, 06:30 AM

This seem pretty dead, but I will still try.

I heard mention that his best throw is strong, why is that so, more range?
Any thows setups that one should know with guile?

And im having some difficulty aggaints fireballs characters. Usually the ones that don't have one I do well, since they have to come to me. But the ones with fireballs I don't seem to be able to maintaing their fireball pace. I try to get closer with some hop kicks and safe jump fireballs but it work only when at distance. Any tips will be apreciated.

Thanks.

LuvMyCap

03-16-2007, 08:22 AM

I discover a very easy input to make the super. I only test it on anniversary.
Charge db,df,ub. Super easy and very fast to do. I used to have problem with it but know I never mess up Even tought the super is not very useful, its fill up very fast and even if you don't get to use it your oponnet have to reconsider some of his options just for the fact of having it.

Raisin

03-16-2007, 10:21 AM

I heard mention that his best throw is strong, why is that so, more range?
Looking at the game data (http://nki.combovideos.com/data.html#distance) from T.Akiba (thanks, NKI, for the translation!), it doesn't list his ground throws as separate in either damage or range, so I assume they're the same in that respect. I don't know if there's some other reason for using the Strong throw like tossing the opponent farther or if people just do it because they think it looks cooler or something.

I discover a very easy input to make the super. I only test it on anniversary.
Charge db,df,ub. Super easy and very fast to do. I used to have problem with it but know I never mess up
That's very cool, anyone know if it works in the arcade too? I won't be able to test it myself for about a week or so.

LuvMyCap

03-16-2007, 11:01 AM

Yeah, I think the only benefits of strong is that it throw farther away.
And the special input can be done with vega too, of course aniversary im talking about.

LuvMyCap

04-08-2007, 01:05 PM

I forgot to tell some time ago.

Yes you can do guiles super charging db,df,ub,k

It work on ST too.

technique121

04-15-2007, 10:43 AM

anybody know what to do when you have your opponent in the corner with guile i try sticking to flash kicks but that doesn't work all the time any other tactics to keeping opponents in the corner with guile

Bilskirnir

04-15-2007, 11:07 AM

what i usually do is keep sonic booms up when they're in the corner,and try to pick at them with crouching medium kick and standing fierce punch.You can also do combos to keep them in the corner

You can always go for a tick throw too

I've seen some people use guiles overhead when people are in the corner too

King Of Bums

04-15-2007, 04:15 PM

I'm having a bit of trouble connecting small combos with guiles super. i.e. j. fierce/j. roundhouse \/ c. fierce xx Super. Is it just timing, or do i have to cancel something.

King Of Bums

04-16-2007, 11:47 AM

I have a question

How you kara fk and how is it usefull?

Maybe this is not as beneficial to this game (someone tell me) but you can do sonics boom charge back, foward, back, punch. You would be already charging another sonic boom, can be done for the flash kick too, charge back, foward, down foward, down, punch.

Idk about karaing fk, (im trying to figure out how to kara the super, so Im half way there :P) and the thing about charging away -> towards ->away ~ punch is called charge buffering. Partitioning is only in sf3.

jchensor

04-17-2007, 06:11 PM

Kara Flash Kick is most useful after a Cross-up. It's a good "safe" combo, so that you can go into the Flash Kick if they are getting hit and not do the Flash Kick if they are blocking.

So, cross-up Short, Crouch Short, Crouch Short into Kara Flash Kick is the Combo.

To do it, just learn the rhythm of doing three Crouch Shorts. Don't mash, just tap it out so you get Crouch Short x 3 to Combo, the quicker the better. Now, to do the Kara Cancel, use the same timing, except on the last Short, hit Up and roll your fingers across Short and Forward as fast as possible without being simultaneous. That will get you the Kara Cancel for the Razor Kick.

Warning: you CAN do this too slow so the Razor Kick doesn't Combo, and if the opponent blocks, just be ready to eat a combo. Practice the timing so you do the Crouch Short x 3 as quickly as you can. That will give you more leeway to Combo the Flash Kick.

- James
http://jchensor.blogspot.com

King Of Bums

04-18-2007, 06:41 AM

The Granby

04-18-2007, 10:30 AM

Anyone have any links on Guiles match ups? In particular how to deal with Claw and Blanka?

Also any opinions on any of his other normals as pokes? I like using standing forward as well as crouching forward to poke at people. To mix it up with backfist/roundhouse stuff.

jchensor

04-19-2007, 01:23 PM

Does this pattern work for guiles super. cause I'm trying to figure that one out. I know its going to be a different motion, but it would be nice to know what to do...

Yes, it does. But it's tougher. The reason it is tougher is because you have to make sure you are fully charged up for the Super. So in other words, normally, you do the motion for the super carefully. But now, you have to do it fast. Because if you start it too early, you don't have enough time to charge up for the super. So don't start the super motion until RIGHT before you press the third Short + Forward. Otherwise, it's not gonna happen. Also, you can still do this too slow so the Super doesn't Combo. It's a tough combo, but to answer your question again: yes, use this same methodology to do the combo.

- James
http://jchensor.blogspot.com

nohoho

04-19-2007, 01:37 PM

Anyone have any links on Guiles match ups? In particular how to deal with Claw and Blanka?

I typed up some anti-Blanka:

Beat the Slide Punch
1) Standing short
Standing short beats not only the slide punch but also horizontal balls and Blanka's super. One of the sweetest things Guile can do is jab sonic -> standing short. If Blanka tries to slide under the sonic at max-range your short will hit him into it for a 2 hit combo.

2) Standing roundhouse
Try to catch him as he goes into the punch. Especially good if Blanka tries two slide punches in a row -- hit him with roundhouse in between. Blanka can beat Guile's standing roundhouse with his standing jab but if he's doing those jabs you can hit him with an old fashioned crouching forward.

3) Fierce Sonic
Mix these in with the jab sonic booms sometimes to try to catch him flinching.

No-charge Air Defense (Standard)
Any given option can be beat, so good anti-air is a matter of knowing the proper spacing and reading your opponent.

1) Crouching forward/roundhouse
Loses to a late Blanka jump fierce. You can also do the crouching forward a little late looking for a blocked hit. If Blanka is really sneaky he could forward hop over that one but you should have a Flash Kick charged by then so...

2) Vertical jump roundhouse / climbing jump fierce
If you're backed into the corner and you get beat air-to-air by a Blanka jump jab, note that you're vulnerable to his fierce ball trickery so be careful.

3) Crouching fierce
This usually loses to Blanka's jump short but that ain't the end of the world. Do it early such that Blanka hits you high, and you can do a defensive two-way mix-up on the back end: sac-throw or Flash Kick. Crouching fierce a little later if you're trying to trade.

No-charge Air Defense (Non-standard)
1) Backfist
At long range this is not unlike Sagat's standing fierce. Do it as late as possible to try to trade or beat Blanka's jumping jab/jumping roundhouse.

2) Far standing strong
3) Neutral or back+medium kick Sobat
4) Standing roundhouse
5) Standing short (!?)
All weird shit that you see Muteki doing against Blanka players sometimes.

Cross-up Short
Blanka is a huge target for an ambiguous jump short -> crouching strong -> (hit confirm) flash kick. If your opponent has a reliable reversal vertical ball this doesn't mean much but...

Whiff -> Throw Trickery
Up close, joystick plus roundhouse (the upside down kick) and joystick plus medium kick (sobat) both miss. Whiff the kick and throw the beast.

chun_li1

04-20-2007, 09:33 AM

stand short seems to beat a lot of low hitbox attacks like Sims crouch punches. > sonic boom, Sim does cr. punch, stand short, 2 hits

VS blankas slide, jump straight plus HP is also a good option when u anticipate slide.

also good for defense mix ups and decreasing some "pressure" from blankas attacks for a short moment (focus of Blanka player shifts from a grounded Guile to a Air,ground Guile for moment)

chun_li1

King Of Bums

04-20-2007, 11:22 PM

Ok, how do you kara-cancel Crossover j. Short \/ cr.jab x2 xx super... this would help me out if i understood this more specifically.

gilley

04-21-2007, 01:20 PM

Ok, how do you kara-cancel Crossover j. Short \/ cr.jab x2 xx super... this would help me out if i understood this more specifically.

Kara cancelling the super off a crossover is the same way you would kara cancel c.jab x2 > super

To kara cancel c.jab x2 into a super you charge D or DB and press c.jab > c.jab > QCUB+jab~short

A shortcut method of doing guile's super is to charge D or DB for it, then do a reverse tiger knee motion+K. For you Marvel players, this is just like doing AHVB.

The key to getting this to work off of a crossover is to charge for the super FK from the DOWN position, straight down. It's often not known that guile can charge for his super this way. So, just jump and your opponent and immediately hold down, do the crossover short, then c.jab > c.jab > QCUB+jab~short kick.

There is an alternate method I use to do guile's super FK that can make it easier to perform in certain situations. I charge straight down, the quickly press DF, UF+K. I think of doing the super the same way I would do a dash in 3S or Marvel. I kind of charge down, then double tap F, F +K(only using DF, UF). Sorry if this doesn't make sense. I still don't know the best way to explain it.

King Of Bums

04-22-2007, 06:27 PM

Kara cancelling the super off a crossover is the same way you would kara cancel c.jab x2 > super

To kara cancel c.jab x2 into a super you charge D or DB and press c.jab > c.jab > QCUB+jab~short

A shortcut method of doing guile's super is to charge D or DB for it, then do a reverse tiger knee motion+K. For you Marvel players, this is just like doing AHVB.

The key to getting this to work off of a crossover is to charge for the super FK from the DOWN position, straight down. It's often not known that guile can charge for his super this way. So, just jump and your opponent and immediately hold down, do the crossover short, then c.jab > c.jab > QCUB+jab~short kick.

There is an alternate method I use to do guile's super FK that can make it easier to perform in certain situations. I charge straight down, the quickly press DF, UF+K. I think of doing the super the same way I would do a dash in 3S or Marvel. I kind of charge down, then double tap F, F +K(only using DF, UF). Sorry if this doesn't make sense. I still don't know the best way to explain it.
Just did it today, going to kick a lot more ass with Guile thanks to you. You have gained the blessings of the Bum King. :smile:
Here is a fun combination for an opponent in a corner
J. fierce\/st. fierce -> fierce boom -> towards fierce *dizzy* j. fierce/roundhouse\/ cr. jab x2 xx super (death).

computer_kid

04-26-2007, 11:43 PM

I know this is kinda noob question, but what's the joystiq motion to combo a standing normal into a flash kick I just seem to get it at random, like it doesn't seem I can charge enough for a flash kick with the duration of a standing normal. Any help is apreciated.

KING

04-27-2007, 05:54 AM

charge down, let the stick go to neutral + attack, then go ~up+kick

ex. d, neutral+st.close Fierce ~u+K

Master Chibi

04-27-2007, 09:42 AM

It was erased from the forum restore, but could someone please help me on the Sim match up, playing him makes me sad as hell.

D:

nohoho

04-27-2007, 04:33 PM

Chibi -
Unlike Guile-Blanka I don't have a lot of recent first hand experience (derrr on the other side heh) but here are some points I've picked up as a movie hound.

The most important thing is to have a really good sense of sim's far crouching punch range. Back+medium kick to retreat and then sonics from just outside that range. Catch him throwing an inopportune yoga fire with a backfist or jump-in.

At that same range you can beat the far crouching strong with guile's standing short like chun_li1 wrote above: the two-hit jab sonic -> short (kick dhalsim's hand) combo is really beautiful.

Beat drills with standing jab, maybe back+medium kick(?). Otherwise stay in crouch when sim jumps (until it looks like he's looking for a jump medium kick/fierce) to keep a flash kick charge.
EDIT: ...or jump rh or walk underneath and crouch fierce. Read your opponent, pick something and do it without hesitation.

Jump over yoga fires (any speed?) at mid screen with jump away jab.

Sonic with charge down-back, towards, down-back + punch so as to better charge oh wait you play 3s so you already know this type of thing nevermind. Anyway canceling fire with sonic safer than jumping. The more rapidly you can throw the better.

I'll spar with you Dhalsim-Guile whenever @ ctf if you like. When the game's working, that is -- the screen crapped out today.

ThisGuileKillYa

04-27-2007, 08:48 PM

Any tips on landing the crossup short on a waking opponent and then comboing off it? So i want to hit short early or late? Seems like the trick is jumping in for it early, but I'm having trouble figuring out when to hit the button. Thanks :)

Grits'N'Gravy

04-27-2007, 09:21 PM

It was erased from the forum restore, but could someone please help me on the Sim match up, playing him makes me sad as hell.

D:

The way I play the match is in low block matching fireballs. If he does a long limb, you can punch it with low strong. If he jumps in, w/ OGuile you can RH, with either you can cHP or flashkick obviously.

If the Sim gets in, you need to be able to reverse tick slide noogie.

The way you play this match is out turtling, because both characters want to play keep out and bait incoming attacks. Just score a hit, block, match etc. Hopefully he will attack and you beat him w/ Guiles normals.

UltraDavid

04-28-2007, 08:45 AM

Guile v Dhalsim is really hard for Guile. You can't stand mid-range unless you wanna get basted. Sim doesn't need to be throwing fireballs most of the time in this match, he can just stand mid-screen from you and use crouching limbs, standing roundhouse, slides, and drills. Standing far away from Sim isn't really a good idea either, because that lets Sim walk up to or drill over booms to get to the range he wants. For me, the best thing to do is throw a boom from outside limb range, follow it up, try to attack, jump back jab or back+forward kick, repeat, basically just a hit and run strategy.

Grits'N'Gravy

04-28-2007, 01:10 PM

UltraDavid

04-28-2007, 04:59 PM

UltraDave: I'm wondering why you don't immediately think to just out turtle him? If he's at mid range throwing a bunch of shit out, just stay in crouch block and do nothing. Predict and flashkick if you want. I think a turtling Guile can do alright in that situation. If he closes the distance and tries to slide and tick and all that other stuff, then the match changes.
Out-turtling him gives him the advantage, is the reason. You're giving him a situation where he controls the match completely and you have to guess an unsafe move to deal damage.

Letting Sim have his midrange spot sucks because you can't sonic boom, you can't jump at him (because Sim's antiairs beat or trade with your jump-ins), and you can't just sit there because Sim will probably end up chipping you with a couple fireballs. You can't keep Sim across the screen, because he just has too many ways to get over or under sonic booms and into midrange, and you can't just hold down-back and wait for when you think he'll throw a limb so you can flash kick because it's an unsafe guess that's unlikely to work at a reasonable rate. If you do flash kick him, great, it's just unlikely and unsafe.

Guile's best options against Sim are after a blocked boom or boom-neutralized fireball and up close. Getting Sim to block a boom or neutralize a boom with a fireball means that Guile either gets frame advantage or gets de facto frame advantage because his moves start up faster and have better priority at certain ranges. The only real way to get Sim to block/neutralize a boom or to get up close is to throw a boom and walk up/toward+forward/jump jab/etc behind it, and then once that happens to do some high-priority move that gets you back to where you can safely throw a boom, that is to play hit and run, running back to get a boom out, following it up, and running out again. If you ever get a knockdown, go in for a crossup, but if he blocks the crossup, start up your games again. That said, this is a losing matchup because it's not hard for Sim to get into his sweet spot than it is for you to successfully deal damage while hitting and running.

Honda v Guile is pretty different from Guile v Sim, by the way. Each of those characters has a different thing he wants to do: Honda wants to get in on Guile; Guile wants to keep Honda out; Sim wants to stand midrange on Guile; Guile wants to play hit and run on Sim.

Grits'N'Gravy

04-28-2007, 07:59 PM

I can definitely understand what you're saying, and maybe I'm wrong but... hear me out:
(Note: I am a long time Honda/Bison player... my experience w/ Guile is based in casuals or A2 Charlie, so I might be wrong... in that case, take David's advice. Just trying to help out, Master Chibi.)

I also said you can low strong the limbs, lots safer than a guess FK, but if you can bait/predict it then it's good shit. Obviously it's a different match than Charlie/Sim A2, but that match is described in the A2 book just about how I proposed, I figure since Sim has about the same stuff, and Charlie has about the same stuff, it would be similar advice. The A2 book has only a small section that basically states: Punch the limbs, don't throw booms in his range and just block the yoga fires. I think you fear block damage a little too much.

I guess I am mostly disagreeing with your notion of walking and jumping backward. I play Jeff Schaefer turtle style when I play Charlie/Guile/Honda, and one of the major points of that style is to not let yourself get pushed around positionally. It doesn't really matter if your opponent "controls the match" because if you control your position and never get cornered, the "control" is just an illusion. That "control" fades once you have the lead in life, and a Schaefer-style turtle is always willing to take a slow, pressure match and wait for the other guy to crack. There's lots more to that style, including some flat out attacking, but if I have the lead I am going to low block and wait, generally.

I was saying Honda vs Sim, not Honda vs Guile. I am saying that Sim has to actually get a solid chunk of damage off Honda somehow and I won't let him do that, that's how I figured Guile could fight sim. Honda vs Guile is obviously to neutral jump, walk, buttslam over the sonic booms and land an Ochio or a trip then go for ticks, crossups or trips etc.

It's most likely a difference in style, but I haven't ever fought a "hit and run" game in ST. I've been playing ST for many years now, I'd assume longer than you, but I've only used Guile casually. Granted, I'm not a great guile player, but for me... I can/am willing to eat some block damage as long as I get a buff hit or two in there. And if you're crouching and he Yoga Fires, you can match it before he throws a limb.

yungb254

04-29-2007, 01:23 PM

Kara cancelling the super off a crossover is the same way you would kara cancel c.jab x2 > super

To kara cancel c.jab x2 into a super you charge D or DB and press c.jab > c.jab > QCUB+jab~short

A shortcut method of doing guile's super is to charge D or DB for it, then do a reverse tiger knee motion+K. For you Marvel players, this is just like doing AHVB.

The key to getting this to work off of a crossover is to charge for the super FK from the DOWN position, straight down. It's often not known that guile can charge for his super this way. So, just jump and your opponent and immediately hold down, do the crossover short, then c.jab > c.jab > QCUB+jab~short kick.

There is an alternate method I use to do guile's super FK that can make it easier to perform in certain situations. I charge straight down, the quickly press DF, UF+K. I think of doing the super the same way I would do a dash in 3S or Marvel. I kind of charge down, then double tap F, F +K(only using DF, UF). Sorry if this doesn't make sense. I still don't know the best way to explain it.
And Ive been doing the super from DB the old fashioned way! That makes it a whole lot easier seeing as you can just charge down and hit df, uf k.

Im having trouble comboing the two jabs. Im in practice mode on the anniversary collection. I see a the two jabs combo and the super come out but they show up as two seperate combos. Two hits for the jabs and 5 for the super. Is there something I am doing wrong or am I not doing this fast enough.

gilley

04-29-2007, 01:56 PM

And Ive been doing the super from DB the old fashioned way! That makes it a whole lot easier seeing as you can just charge down and hit df, uf k.

Im having trouble comboing the two jabs. Im in practice mode on the anniversary collection. I see a the two jabs combo and the super come out but they show up as two seperate combos. Two hits for the jabs and 5 for the super. Is there something I am doing wrong or am I not doing this fast enough.

Yeah, it sounds like you're not kara cancelling fast enough. I get this same problem sometimes. Make sure to practice on Zangief or Fei Long first until you can get it on them really easy, then try against other people. The timing to cancel into super(and have the super actually combo) is really picky in ST. If you can get the super to actually come out though, you're already 1/2 way there.

Mizuki

05-12-2007, 12:23 PM

Is there any top player that uses O. Guile?

Ouroborus

05-14-2007, 01:40 PM

choi

NKI

05-15-2007, 09:42 PM

I think Nelson used to use O.Guile?

SmoothCat

05-16-2007, 02:01 PM

Anyone have a match up chart for this game???

I wanna pick up guile and finally get good at this game I just wanna no what's his good and bad match ups. Is chun imposible for him cuz I keep getting raped by her =(

Sup NKI give me a holla at evoeast I need to powerup in this game

zass

05-17-2007, 02:26 PM

Joel Frank, who won the first alt.games.sf2 tourney in Vegas (kind of a precurosor to the B2/B3/Evo series) won it with O. Guile.

Bob Painter took 2nd with Honda.

Juggy

05-26-2007, 10:16 AM

guile boom sonic

Digitalbooty

06-07-2007, 07:57 PM

VS Boxer

DO spam sonic booms and c.mks to stuff and punish dashes.
DO advance safely towards opponent using f.lk and f.mk.

VS Claw

DO use the tip of j.fp to stuff wall dives (if no charge for sommersault is available.)
DO pressure with f.mk and sonic booms.

DO NOT use c.fp as an anti-air. that shit sucks.

Grits'N'Gravy

06-07-2007, 09:58 PM

DO use OG Guile. Standing hk and backfist is no joke.

Digitalbooty

06-07-2007, 10:29 PM

Whats the diff between o Guile and n Guile?

Mizuki

06-08-2007, 09:33 PM

DO use OG Guile. Standing hk and backfist is no joke.

Wow, I thought I was the only one who like O.Guile.

chun_li1

06-09-2007, 02:10 AM

DO use OG Guile. Standing hk and backfist is no joke.

Dont forget stand LK w/o holding it neutral!

nohoho

07-18-2007, 12:14 PM

Bump.

Here's the gist of T.Akiba's Guile vs. Claw writeup.

Guile 3-7 Vega
- Sliding is annoying
- No air defense when he jumps a sonic [from close]
- Difficult to okiseme

Pinned in the corner
- Use flash kick vs. chip damage attempt [rolling claw]
- Gamble flash kick vs. Izuna/Barcelona
- When you predict a wall dive fake out, fierce sonic

Anti Slide Kick
Unless he's right on top of you there's no good way to stop the slide kick.
Gamble flash kick misses. Sonic trades unfavorably. Towards+medium kick sometimes works but you have to predict and Guile's down on a trade.
[Far standing roundhouse works here and there, too.]
Keeping quiet and blocking is safest. At least it doesn't do chip damage.

Also, after a blocked slide, sonic is not recommended. You'll eat crouching strong. If he gets predictable with blocked slide -> crouching strong you can flash kick but don't get carried away.

Bad range for Vega
Get into a more favorable position with jab sonics. Some breathing room. [half screen ish]
- Counter the jump in with crouching roundhouse.
- If he vertical jumps the sonic, use crouching forward. (Try to meet him in the air [w/ jump roundhouse or whatever] and you'll eat his vertical jab)
- If he blocks it, move back with back+medium kick and throw the next sonic.

Okiseme
[not explicit but I think this is all about ticks]
- Very difficult to time safe jump in vs. Vega.
- Doesn't mean much since he's got standing flip kick.
- If he backflips you can't throw him.
- Even when you do get the throw he'll tech hit.
Risk reward stinks.

Ultimately, a blocked jab sonic might be best.
[fuck that, jump in and try to tick. Cross up short -> crouching jab -> throw
Or just crouching short x2 -> throw]

brian

07-19-2007, 11:58 AM

I heard that kurahashi was using occasional jump towards short to counter claw's slide spam. Ive never tried this, but the idea is if you guess right, you do a round ending crossup combo like jump short, cr lkx2 super, or flash kick.

Master Chibi

07-24-2007, 11:51 AM

CHRIST why is playin this character so frustrating?

So far I've lost to:

Dhalisms / Vega / T. Hawk.

God damn it.

nohoho, we gots to talk.

ShinAkuma204

07-24-2007, 12:20 PM

I prefer O Guile as well.

nohoho

07-24-2007, 12:39 PM

Who was using T.Hawk? Someone at TGA? I can't find the results for that event...

w2z on Friday! (if that doesn't go down I'm going to ctf) The Dhalsim fight (and O.Sagat) is really awful but Guile's other tough match-ups like Vega and Blanka are very do-able. If Deathscythe makes it we'll use his Vega as a guinea pig!

nohoho

07-24-2007, 09:36 PM

There's a Kurahashi Guile vs. Vega match here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CB-xvL6BRI). T.Akiba knows what's up.

A bunch more X-Mania 1 guile movies in that same account.

nohoho

07-27-2007, 10:05 PM

Triple post, motherfuckers!

Muteki Guile recently took on the Master Chibi special: Tokido Claw and Gian Dhalsim. Link to video on ze blog.
note:
a) CE Guile, not ST
b) that dude has crossed the line into some other universe of badassness.

King Of Bums

07-27-2007, 11:06 PM

Question, how do you do a pure cancel to guiles super. I have the x2 cr. jab to kara super, but i can't do something like cr. mp xx super. Any advice will help.

Mizuki

07-28-2007, 10:24 AM

CHRIST why is playin this character so frustrating?

So far I've lost to:

Dhalisms / Vega / T. Hawk.

God damn it.

nohoho, we gots to talk.

Huh? How. You got jumping JABBED to death?

incognegro

08-01-2007, 11:48 AM

hey I know that there is kara-canceling in this game which I can't seem to get I have read the forums and seen where someone mentioned it just button canceling or something like that. Can someone explain it in a little better detail and tell me if you can kara-cancel throws with guile like you can in 3rd strike.

jchensor

08-01-2007, 01:27 PM

You can't Kara-Throw in this game because Throws aren't a special command. They are just one button, so Capcom gave no kara ability to Throws.

Kara Cancels are Capcom's way for easing up on special move input. So if you try to do a Fireball motion and hit Fierce ever too slightly early (right before reaching Towards on the controller), you'll end up doing a Stand Fierce or a Crouch Fierce. Without Kara Canceling, that's all you'd get: the Normal Move Fierce. With Kara Canceling in place, ALL Normal Moves can be canceled into a Special Move in their first few frames. That way, even though you hit Fierce ever so slightly early, you'll finish the Fireball motion, the game will recognize you TRIED to do a Fireball, and (thanks partially to Negative Edge as well) the Normal Move Fierce will be canceled into a Fireball instead. It can happen so fast that the Normal Move Fierce isn't even viewable ever. But it's that little leeway they put in that makes doing Special Moves a whole lot easier (and accidentally gave birth to the Buffer Combos way back in WW SFII).

Knowing that has allowed for people to "cheat" the systems in ways and do combos that aren't supposed to be allowable, particularly off of Rapid Fire Weak Attacks.

- James
http://jchensor.blogspot.com

King Of Bums

08-02-2007, 01:16 PM

Practical combos

These the the only combos you should be trying to do.

- j.HP/HK, HP/c.Mp xx Flash Kick
- j.HP/HK, HP xx Sonic Boom, Backfist
- X-up LK, c.MP xx Flash Kick (for O.Guile you can swap the X-up LK to X-up MK but i think that only works on crouching opponents).

Best way to land the super is on a crossup LK

- X-up LK, c.LP/c.LK x2 xx Super

j.fierce/roundhouse, c.fierce xx super
You gotta be a superman to land this one. Dump the jumping attack and do the C.fierece cancelled into super as a meaty
If you really want to do the super off a forward jumping attack do it like this
- j.HP/HK, c.MP xx Super
I am currently trying to get the timing right on doing the j. fierce -> cr. strong xx super. I keep getting a flash kick instead of the super. Btw, im using the charge b/d, f/d, u/b method of the super (i can do this consistandly (99/100 i will get it right) and i can kara it from the cr. jab x2).

This would be optimal for a corrnerd opponet if he got dizzied. I hope to be hearing from one of you soon.

fatboy

08-02-2007, 02:06 PM

Btw, im using the charge b/d, f/d, u/b method of the super (i can do this consistandly (99/100 i will get it right) and i can kara it from the cr. jab x2).

Nice... I'll have to try that with the b/d, f/d, u/b method...

kev_the_bev

08-02-2007, 07:11 PM

what does O. Guile have over ST Guile?

King Of Bums

08-03-2007, 01:40 PM

Seriously, any help on doing the strait up cancel of guiles super? If the oppenet is in a corner, i can't do a jump-in to 2xjab xx super to hit him, so i really need to know this move.
Btw, i think o. guile has a bit better normals, chains a bit better, and recovers from sonic booms faster, but i dont play with o. guile.

YuuFone

08-03-2007, 09:36 PM

:db:I still have a bitch of a time pulling his super off. I don't know what I'm doing wrong, but I can only do it 25% of the time. Ugh.

me too~ so how is his super done??

i do it like this on 1P side

:db: :df::db::uf: it works like 50% of the time....

so is there a better method to use his super??

i wish i could so it 90% of the time~

by the way what guile colors do you guys use the most?!

King Of Bums

08-04-2007, 01:37 AM

:db:

me too~ so how is his super done??

i do it like this on 1P side

:db: :df::db::uf: it works like 50% of the time....

so is there a better method to use his super??

i wish i could so it 90% of the time~

by the way what guile colors do you guys use the most?!

Charge :db: :df: :ub: :k: works like a charm (the one i use most often). But Charge :db: :hcb: :ub: :k: works too.

NKI

08-04-2007, 10:08 AM

Question, how do you do a pure cancel to guiles super. I have the x2 cr. jab to kara super, but i can't do something like cr. mp xx super. Any advice will help.charge D/B, D/F, D, D/B+Strong, B, U/B+kick (all in one smooth motion)

I think you can also link his super after cr.Strong, but I'd have to double check that.

ShinAkuma204

08-04-2007, 11:58 AM

what does O. Guile have over ST Guile?

Better standing roundhouse as an anti air and less directional dependent moves. Not really an advantage per se but less thinking about joystick position when needing to react to stuff is a plus for me.

Plus I can't do his super to save my life.

jchensor

08-06-2007, 04:26 PM

NKI's way of doing the Super cancel is the best way to do a true cancel. There is also the Kara Cancel method, which let's you cancel from two low Shorts or two low Jabs into the Super.

So for example, with Crouch Short:

Hold Down/Back and hit Short, Chain into another Crouch Short, and then, with the same timing you did between the first two Crouch Shorts, hit Short again. But this time, do the entire Super Motion (Down-Forward, Down-Back, Up-Back) in between the 2nd and 3rd time you hit Short so that you hit Short right when you reach Up-back. And once you hit Short there, tap Forward or Roundhouse in a split second after hitting Short. So you're almost hitting Short + Roundhouse at the same time, just ever so slightly separately. That'll Kara-cancel the last Short into a Super and, if you did it fast enough, it'll combo.

But to be honest, most people won't ever need to cancel into the super. It's not an actualy and practical technique for Guile, so I honetly wouldn't worry about it all that much. Even if you learned it to the point where you could do it 90% of the time, you'll probably very rarely land it in actual battle.

- James
http://jchensor.blogspot.com

King Of Bums

08-08-2007, 11:26 AM

with x2 :lp: its a bit easier (but less damaging) because you dont have to worry about doing a knee bazooka (:r: or :l: + :k:). But the most usefull way to get this off is by doing his short cross up, x2 :lp: :db: :df: :lp:~:ub: + :k:.time it so your standing when you :lp:, or else it will just do another punch instead of the super.

And thanks NKI! Once I get off of work im going to try that out. I'll be ready for you next evo north (Instead of failing terribly trying to figure out how a stick works :rofl:).

kev_the_bev

08-16-2007, 08:25 PM

what's the pros and cons of each version of Guile in hyper street fighter 2?

Mizuki

10-03-2007, 01:03 PM

what does O. Guile have over ST Guile?

O.Guile has standing shorts while holding charge, backfist while holding a charge, standing RH AA. He doesn't lose much for the super because Guile's super sucks anyways. He has a better chance of dealing more damage. He has an easier time dealing with Sagat imo, and his matchup vs Claw is a little less ugly. Also dealing with Guile mirrors is a little less stupid for O.Guile.

fatboy

10-03-2007, 01:06 PM

O.guile does lose the great cross-up game... That has to count for something? Thoughts??

ThisGuileKillYa

10-03-2007, 01:47 PM

It's definitely debatable, but I gotta give it to n guile. I do wish he had the standing shorts, I'll give o that. But the sobats and step-forward rh (for lack of a better name) are just really good for mobility. Plus of course the crossup can be a round winner if you can space/time it right. O Guile is just much more of a turtle, so it comes down to preference. Until O Guile has a crossup and a sobat, make mine New. (sorry for anyone who doesnt get that reference lol)

YuuFone

10-16-2007, 04:28 AM

Charge :db: :df: :ub: :k: works like a charm (the one i use most often). But Charge :db: :hcb: :ub: :k: works too.

Thanx for the tip

I would like to ask how should I play against Chun??
my bro is a chun player and he likes to MP poke all the time
and in the corner most of the time the MP beats my Flash Kick
but if I wait too long he will throw me and usually this kills me in like 10 seconds...

technique121

10-22-2007, 04:55 PM

in what situation or charicters would guile's air throw come in handy usually i guile air throws come unexpectly with me

Sevenskirt

10-25-2007, 02:04 PM

in what situation or charicters would guile's air throw come in handy usually i guile air throws come unexpectly with me

I don't think of air throws that highly due to their limited use as you need both players to be in mid-air, but they've got their uses:

For example, you can punish a whiffed Dragon Punch with an air throw as shown in the video I've posted below. Take a close look at 3:58 where Kurahashi does 2 air throws on Watson.
Air throws do have their uses but they come in "real" handy only rarely... Kurahashi could have done more damage if he had done a Flash Kick combo during Watson's landing... It's just a stylish-looking mix-up tool, there's nothing really strategically important to it in my opinion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nF-7k-G2D_8

I've successfully stuffed a Ken's flaming (Fierce) Dragon Punch with Guile's air throw twice-I've done the throw while he was STILL in the animation frames of the Dragon Punch unlike Watson's Ryu who had been air thrown by Kurahashi during his DOWNFALL-I did it while the Ken was RISING.
I did both of the throws with Guile's Roundhouse Kick, Kurahashi used the same throw, too, maybe Guile's jumping Roundhouse throw has got some "Only-Guile" special priority... There has to be done more research on this...

I think it's due to the extra frames Ken gets when doing a flaming Dragon Punch, that might have made him "vulnerable", as both times the player did a Fierce/flaming Dragon Punch.

kid_krush

12-11-2007, 09:40 PM

does guile have a bnb

nohoho

12-11-2007, 10:45 PM

jump fierce, crouching strong, flash kick

Raisin

12-11-2007, 11:44 PM

In the Chun Li Wiki (http://www.shoryuken.com/wiki/index.php/Chun-Li_%28ST%29#Advanced_Strategy) (under Advanced Strategy --> Neckbreaker Shenanigans), it says that Chun Li can cross Guile up with her neckbreaker (downforward + RH). However, I don't know of any situations in which Guile can't block it normally with a crouching block.

When exactly will Chun's neckbreaker hit as a crossup, and how exactly would you block it in such a case (opposite-side crouching or opposite-side standing)?

kid_krush

12-12-2007, 07:41 PM

can guile link c.lp-c.mp,flach kick

NKI

12-12-2007, 10:41 PM

FreshOJ

12-13-2007, 12:29 PM

can guile link c.lp-c.mp,flach kick

While it's for SSF2, my Link FAQ answers your question with a "yes, but only if you're close". Read it for a comprehensive list of links that can help you in Super Turbo.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/coinop/arcade/file/583630/881

Also, check out David Wright's TZW Combo FAQ for more insane combos.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/coinop/arcade/file/583630/852

I live for this. :)

Sevenskirt

12-15-2007, 09:01 AM

Guile can also link a c.Strong into a close-up s.Fierce. However, it's pretty difficult to do because you have to be very, very close. But I think it's possible after a cross-up.

COUM

12-15-2007, 09:32 AM

can guile link c.lp-c.mp,flach kick

Don't look at ST in terms of BnBs and combos....it's not gonna help much

Kuprin

12-15-2007, 05:54 PM

Don't look at ST in terms of BnBs and combos....it's not gonna help much

I disagree, combos are quite important in ST; knowing the best combos off of your normals lets you really increase your overall damage. It isn't the most important thing to this game (part of why I love it), and BnBs really only matter when you've got somebody stunned, but there's always a use for good combos. :)

Raisin

12-17-2007, 02:16 PM

I don't know of any situations in which Guile can't block [Chun's df + RH] normally with a crouching block... When exactly will Chun's neckbreaker hit as a crossup?
Uh, I feel kinda bad posting this now, especially since I've already put someone through some trouble only to answer my own post a few days later, but... I think there's a way. I don't think it should ever happen unless you screw up pretty badly, but it is possible.

If Guile gets knocked down in such a way that his prone body is not sliding away from her like usual but towards her, he ends up just a few pixels closer than he otherwise would when the neckbreaker (df+RH) is landing. If she times it correctly, she can then hit him on the opposite side.

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee304/Raisin_SF2/Chun%20Li/NeckbreakercrossupvsGuile.png

Here's a scenario. Chun Li did a neckbreaker over a Sonic Boom, and Guile stupidly tried to anti-air trip her (which I have a terrible habit of doing), resulting in her smashing down on his foot. Then the neckbreaker knockdown makes him fall towards her, because his body was so far away at the time if the hit. If Chun times another neckbreaker correctly, it can hit as a crossup. Although he's trying to do a same side-side crouching block, he's actually getting his crouching "switch sides" frames, because she's too far over his head.

Guile could've blocked correctly by holding down-back the opposite way. And, of course, you would have to mess up to get into this type of situation to begin with.

Raisin

12-18-2007, 04:23 PM

Recently I found out something weird about O.Guile... Some of his moves do more damage. :confused:

It was surprising, because I'd grown so used to hearing rumors about old character advantages that aren't really true. But no, I'm convinced that this is real, and I'll give you a few examples you can use to prove it to yourself. Set up a scenario where he's fighting Chun Li and do damage tests in the first round only. (I have a strong suspicion that the round situation can skew the additional amount of random damage that gets added to most moves. It's similar to how your throws will do more damage in the 2nd round if you lost the 1st.)

Crouching fierce: Old Guile's is just a bit stronger, maybe 3-5%. Smack her 7 times with Old Guile and she typically has 0-1 pixel of vitality left. Repeat 7 crouching fierces with New Guile and you'll see her usually ending up with 2-4 pixels of vitality. Additionally, sometimes Old Guile will knock her out completely, but I've never seen N.Guile KO her with 7 crouching fierces. I'm not saying it's impossible if you get lucky with a ton of additional random damage, but it would be extremely rare.

Crouching forward: Old Guile's is significantly stronger, probably 10% or so. If Old Guile does 7 crouching forwards, Chun typically has 2-4 pixels remaining and an 8th will KO her. N.Guile can do do 8 c.forwards and Chun will still have 1-3 pixels left.

Not all of Old Guile's moves are stronger. For example, his ground throws and his short Flash Kick (or at least its first hitting frame) are the same as New Guile.

Is this new information? If nobody else has already documented this type of thing, I'm probably going to do a full-scale investigation to find out the complete data of which moves do more damage and exactly by how much. It also begs the question of whether other old characters have different damage figures for the same moves, but right now I already have more than enough on my plate.

kid_krush

12-20-2007, 12:50 PM

i found that that c.mpx2-flash kick works as a bnb wont get many chances to do maybe when opp is dizzy. but its an easy link. i find o.guile not as good n.guile can space out better and he has super he doesnt really need but u never know. o.guile does have hk as an anti-air. is it true that blanka has an advantage over guile and how so

Raisin

12-20-2007, 05:08 PM

i found that that c.mpx2-flash kick works works as a bnb wont get many chances to do maybe when opp is dizzy.
1.) Does that only work on certain, wide opponents or something? While I can do that on Sagat, I can't link the c.strongs against Ryu or DeeJay for the life of me.

2.) If they're dizzy, what's the advantage of doing two c.strongs instead of just a jumping attack into a c.strong? 'Cause the latter does more damage and feels easier to me.

is it true that blanka has an advantage over guile and how so
A lot of people think that, but I personally don't see it. You can read nohoho's Guile vs. Blanka strategy (http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=3830918&postcount=50) for excellent advice back on the 2nd page of this thread.

Axel Kelly

12-20-2007, 05:30 PM

Blanka's slide under SBs, and vertical ball to stop crossup attempts are what really shit all over Guile's game in that match

It's not as bad as people make it out to be though

kid_krush

12-20-2007, 06:29 PM

1
2.) If they're dizzy, what's the advantage of doing two c.strongs instead of just a jumping attack into a c.strong? 'Cause the latter does more damage and feels easier to me.

then just do j.hp -hp-sonic boom-f+hp

ps:umbrellastyle thnx for the info

SmoothCat

12-21-2007, 11:11 AM

I am having a hell of a time vs good sim players. The proplem is once I get in the coner I pretty much lose the fight. Does anyone no how this fight works??
I see a lot of vids but the guile player always lose...

kid_krush

12-21-2007, 01:25 PM

sim can go under booms with c.mp and an stop your cross-up attempts. lk can stop his limbs so after boom mash lk thats all i got people feel free o post

Raisin

12-21-2007, 04:50 PM

I am having a hell of a time vs good sim players. The proplem is once I get in the coner I pretty much lose the fight. Does anyone no how this fight works??
Being in the corner seems especially bad to me too, because as UltraDavid wrote earlier, most Dhalsims really like their midrange spot, and here you lack the option to move backwards (via retreating sobat, etc.) to gain the necessary difference to throw Sonic Boom(s) safely. I don't know of an easy way out of the corner in this one... I feel like Dhalsim has to make a mistake.

As for a general match breakdown, page 3 of this thread is a gold mine of Guile vs. Dhalsim info (http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=118690&page=3), featuring nohoho's list of tactics and the discussion between UltraDavid and Grits'N'Gravy.

I see a lot of vids but the guile player always lose...
Muteki took 2 out of 3 hard-fought games from Gian between these characters in the Neo Super Star Cup 2006 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSBTLTEzPC4), so it is possible against even the best of opponents.

Raisin

12-24-2007, 04:54 PM

Test notes: Each move's damage was sampled at least 30 times, so the figures should be correct within a few tenths or a couple percent. Samples taken from ST arcade world version, fighting Ryu, England stage, round 1 only, no dizzies or combos, no damage scaling. Damage figures are inclusive of random damage additions (if any). If anyone wants the individual data samples, I will provide them.

Figures given are in number of pixels of damage. For ease of reading, I've color-coded the damage comparisons as large difference, moderate difference, slight difference, or the same. Not applicable is marked if a move is completely different or absent.
_______________________________________________

-=- Standing far attacks -=-

N.Guile s.far jab: 4.08
O.Guile s.far jab: 4.30 (+5.4%)

N.Guile s.far strong, first hitting sprite: 19.30
O.Guile s.far strong, first hitting sprite: 22.50 (+16.6%)

N.Guile s.far strong, second hitting sprite: 19.13
O.Guile s.far strong, second hitting sprite: (doesn't have it, only has one hitting sprite) (N/A)

N.Guile s.far fierce: 21.17 (the straight punch)
O.Guile s.far fierce: (doesn't have it, only backfist) (N/A)

N.Guile s.far short: 10.88
O.Guile s.far short: 11.13 (+2.3%)

N.Guile s.far roundhouse: 21.27 (the side kick)
O.Guile s.far roundhouse: 24.53 (the high kick) (N/A)
_______________________________________________

-=- Standing close attacks that are different from their far counterparts -=-

N.Guile s.close strong: 19.23
O.Guile s.close strong: 19.03 (-1.0%)

N.Guile s.close fierce: 21.37
O.Guile s.close fierce: 22.33 (+4.5%)

N.Guile s.close forward: 19.17
O.Guile s.close forward: 21.20 (+10.6%)

N.Guile s.close roundhouse: 22.75 (the roundhouse kick)
O.Guile s.close roundhouse: 24.69 (the turn-away kick) (N/A)
_______________________________________________

-=- Crouching attacks -=-

N.Guile c.jab: 4.00
O.Guile c.jab: 4.30 (+7.5%)

N.Guile c.strong: 17.37
O.Guile c.strong: 19.17 (+10.4%)

N.Guile c.fierce, first hitting sprite: 21.19
O.Guile c.fierce, first hitting sprite: 22.41 (+5.8%)

N.Guile c.fierce, second hitting sprite: 21.19
O.Guile c.fierce, second hitting sprite: 22.59 (+6.6%)

N.Guile c.short: 12.16
O.Guile c.short: 12.22 (+0.5%)

N.Guile c.forward: 19.30
O.Guile c.forward: 21.10 (+9.3%)

N.Guile c.RH, first hitting sprite: 21.13
O.Guile c.RH, first hitting sprite: 24.28 (+14.9%)

N.Guile c.RH, second hitting sprite: 21.09
O.Guile c.RH, second hitting sprite: 24.59 (+16.6%)
_______________________________________________

-=- Straight-up jumping attacks -=-

N.Guile j.up jab: 11.06
O.Guile j.up jab: 11.16 (+0.9%)

N.Guile j.up strong: 19.10
O.Guile j.up strong: 19.47 (+1.9%)

N.Guile j.up fierce: 21.00
O.Guile j.up fierce: 22.30 (+6.2%)

N.Guile j.up short: 12.00
O.Guile j.up short: 12.19 (+1.6%)

N.Guile j.up forward: 19.10
O.Guile j.up forward: 21.10 (+10.5%)

N.Guile j.up roundhouse: 20.87
O.Guile j.up roundhouse: 24.38 (+16.8%)
_______________________________________________

-=- Diagonal jumping attacks -=-

N.Guile j.diag jab: 10.90
O.Guile j.diag jab: 10.97 (+0.6%)

N.Guile j.diag strong: 19.07
O.Guile j.diag strong: 19.07 (+0.0%)

N.Guile j.diag fierce: 21.13
O.Guile j.diag fierce: 22.37 (+5.9%)

N.Guile j.diag short: 12.28
O.Guile j.diag short: 12.16 (-1.0%)

N.Guile j.diag forward: 19.20
O.Guile j.diag forward: 21.17 (+10.3%)

N.Guile j.diag roundhouse: 21.25
O.Guile j.diag roundhouse: 24.44 (+15.0%)
_______________________________________________

-=- Command moves -=-

N.Guile backfist: 21.25
O.Guile backfist: 22.53 (+6.0%)

N.Guile bazooka knee: 19.07
O.Guile bazooka knee: 21.10 (+10.6%)

N.Guile sobat (hop-kick): 19.37
O.Guile sobat (hop-kick): 21.07 (+8.8%)

N.Guile upside-down kick: 22.33
O.Guile upside-down kick: 26.09 (+16.8%)
_______________________________________________

-=- Throws -=-

N.Guile strong ground throw: 32
O.Guile strong ground throw: 32 (+0%)

N.Guile fierce ground throw: 32
O.Guile fierce ground throw: 32 (+0%)

N.Guile strong airthrow: 34
O.Guile strong airthrow: 34 (+0%)

N.Guile fierce airthrow: 34
O.Guile fierce airthrow: 34 (+0%)

N.Guile forward airthrow: 46
O.Guile forward airthrow: 46 (+0%)

N.Guile roundhouse airthrow: 46
O.Guile roundhouse airthrow: 46 (+0%)
_______________________________________________

-=- Special moves -=-

N.Guile jab sonic boom: 15.49
O.Guile jab sonic boom: 14.97 (-3.4%)

N.Guile strong sonic boom: 16.23
O.Guile strong sonic boom: 16.40 (+1.0%)

N.Guile fierce sonic boom: 17.53
O.Guile fierce sonic boom: 17.70 (+1.0%)

N.Guile flash kick, first hitting sprite: 27.09
O.Guile flash kick, first hitting sprite: 27.34 (+0.9%)

N.Guile flash kick, second hitting sprite: 19.43
O.Guile flash kick, second hitting sprite: 19.33 (-0.5%)

N.Guile super, all 6 hits: 85.60
O.Guile super, all 6 hits: (doesn't have it) (N/A)

fatboy

12-24-2007, 08:08 PM

[color=lightgray]

Snip everything Guile...
Sh!t...:wow: I would rep you more if I could! :tup:

SweetJohnnyV

12-24-2007, 10:56 PM

Sh!t...:wow: I would rep you more if I could! :tup:

I got your back brother! Nice work Raisin! :lovin:

Ehonda

12-26-2007, 12:53 PM

I encountered this ?"Glitch"? many years ago while playing Superstreetfighter. I do not know if its a glitch or if it is supposed to be in the game. Guile vs Ryu I threw a sonic boom from starting distance, Ryu anticipates the boom and jumps in. I immediately flashkicked Ryu. How was this possible? There was no slow down and the sonic boom was still on the screen, still somewhat close to me(guile). This was against a Person not the computer.

brian

01-19-2008, 11:22 PM

Question: what the hell is up with the combo crossup lk, down lkx2, hit confirm, flashick. Its super powerful if you can do it because you can hit confirm a flashkick on someone who tries to throw you after the crossup. I know how its done. I even see people on this board talk about it like they can do it. Some small percentage of the time, I can do it too. But seriously, can anyone do it more than like 80% of the time? If you cant its useless cause you'll die when you screw it up and its not worth using in that case.

Its clearly a far far better option then crossup lk, down mp, hit confirm, flashkick, because again, it gets those throw mashers. But yet in japanese vids starring kurahashi and muteki, I basically never ever see them even attempt it.

This would lead me to believe that its too hard to be practical.

However... I swear I recall that when I was playing at More in Japan a number of years ago, I was having this done to me all the time. Also, it appears in the Yoga Book Hyper in the Guile strategy section.

So what's the deal...

PS: I consider the combo a failure if the crossup doesnt combo into the down lk's, or any of the down lks don't link, etc.

KnightWarrior

01-27-2008, 03:05 PM

I'm starting to play Guile now..But I can't get his 3 hit Flash KIck Combo out..I end up hitting 2 hits

I jump in with a deep fierce in to a short..I keep on messing up on the last comand..the Flash Kick...

I have no troble doing a short into a flash kick..because I'm charging down..btw I'm using the saturn pad

ShinAkuma204

01-27-2008, 07:02 PM

KnightWarrior

01-27-2008, 09:58 PM

oops..I ment Strong not Short..

Duck Strong

01-27-2008, 10:12 PM

Raisin

01-28-2008, 12:12 AM

I can't get his 3 hit Flash KIck Combo out... I jump in with a deep fierce in to a [crouching strong punch]... I keep on messing up on the last comand..the Flash Kick...
When you say you're messing up the Flash Kick part, what exactly is going wrong with it? Is it just not coming out at all? I wonder if you might not be charging down early enough after jumping, especially since you said you're using a pad and can do c.strong into flashkick fine if you take out the jumping part. Or it might be that along with getting nervous and trying to rush the combo by pressing up just a tiny bit too soon after doing the c.strong. Sometimes I make those mistakes.

Side note, have you considered doing that combo with j.RH instead of j.fierce? I'm almost positive it has more dizzy power and, if you're playing O.Guile, also does more damage.

brian

01-28-2008, 12:18 AM

It's hard to connect the cr.shorts off a crossup short if you get the, standing. The timing is pretty strict so I would go for 2xcr.jab into flashkick instead if you really want a hit confirm. But to be honest, it's really not that hard to react if your crossup conects so I would just go straight for duck strong like you said.

The shorts are by far the best option not because they can be hit confirmed (as you say, so can low strong) but because they hit low and will thus connect on the people who mash throw after blocking the crossup.

Its true though, I find it very very hard to combo them after the crossup.

Duck Strong

01-28-2008, 05:47 PM

The shorts are by far the best option not because they can be hit confirmed (as you say, so can low strong) but because they hit low and will thus connect on the people who mash throw after blocking the crossup.

Its true though, I find it very very hard to combo them after the crossup.

I know what you're saying but the only time that would really matter is if they blocked the crossup.

Assuming the crossup connects and you manage to combo the shorts, great, but in the more likely scenario that the shorts don't combo; I'd wager that gap will get you sac-thrown instead.

misterpoon

02-06-2008, 01:22 PM

brian

02-06-2008, 04:12 PM

ShinVega

02-06-2008, 08:56 PM

My god i am starting to feel crappy. I like playing CE guile because i honestly cannot do ST Guile's combo-link-super.

I have been trying these combos for some time now.

# j.HK cr.MP/close st.HP -> super
# crossup j.LK cr.LK cr.LK (st.LK) -> super
# j.HK close st.HP -> super
# j.HK cr.HP -> super

I just dont get the how the kara cancel thing is supposed to be done here. I have been checking the older posts but i am still clueless as to how to perform these super cancels.

The closest i have ever done as to cancelling to the super is c.LP, c.LP, super. I have no idea how i exactly did it. I must have accidentally mashed LP before the actual super.

When it comes to combos being done from the c.HP link, i have no idea how the execution is supposed to be .

Thanks in advance, practicing for SsF2THD. LOL More power to you guys.

1. Here's the exact command: J. (hold d/away) RH, dn/twd+Strong, dn/away, nuetral+Fierce, up/twds+K .
2. This is a renda kara cancel. Exact command: J. (hold d/away change direction as soon as you cross up) short, land continue to hold dn/away + short, dn/twd, dn/away+short, neutral+short, up/twds+short+jab .
3. Exact Command: J. (hold d/away) RH, dn/twd, dn/away, nuetral+Fierce, up/twds+K .
4. Exact Command: J. (hold d/away) RH, dn/twd, dn/away+Fierce, up/twds+K

Brian's right though. Anyways, in order to do any of these combos you need to be able to execute the super motion flawlessly, and with ease. I reccomend starting off with learning the Renda Kara Cancel. A renda Kara Cancel is a kara cancel that allows you to cancel chain attack combos in to Supers. You perform one by kara canceling the last attack into the super (ex. here's what you did, hold dn/away, cr. jab, c.jab, dn/twd+jab, dn/away, up/twds+jab+short). The other combos (1 and 3) are much more difficult IMO. Post if you see a problem. :tup:

Oh yeah, here's the alternate execution of the super motion: hold dn/away, dn/twd, dn/away, up/away+K. I guess this is just a preference option.

misterpoon

02-06-2008, 11:55 PM

I've never seen an American Guile player do any of these combos in actual matches. I think you're probably better off working on other parts of your game.

And there are way more important reasons for new guile being better than old guile. Namely teching throws, the godly sobat kick, and the ambiguous crossup, among others.

The only thing i have really been enjoying about CE guile is his throws in AE. Still looking for a CCC2 copy here.

Yes i agree with you. I believe that New Guile has a lot more options specially in terms of spacing. Yeah his (away or towards)s.MK is phenomenal, i love its reach. Its great too that he has both the far s.HK and the (away or toward) s.LK.

About the juggles though i just kinda use these scrubby ones for match play j.MK, c.MP, jackknife or even just j.MK, c.MK or c.HK. Hahahahha easy as hell. Oh and the corner c.MP, sonic boom into towards s.HP or c.Mk is just great.

The cross up game of guile is so fun in ST compared to CVS2. LOL cross up into throw just kicks ass. I even find his cross up game to be more fun than dictator's, honestly. Well thats just me, don't know bout you guys.

Anyway practice makes perfect so what the hell right? I mean there is nothing better than seeing Muteki Guile doing a cross up into c.LP into super to turn around the match. Definitely linking his super is part of his over all damage game aside from his ticks, throws, and sonic boom set ups. This is the reason i love New Guile, he has so many options, plus he has a super that should be used whenever possible. Its not as useful as boxer's, but if you can link it from a combo, it pays off.

1. Here's the exact command: J. (hold d/away) RH, dn/twd+Strong, dn/away, nuetral+Fierce, up/twds+K .
2. This is a renda kara cancel. Exact command: J. (hold d/away change direction as soon as you cross up) short, land continue to hold dn/away + short, dn/twd, dn/away+short, neutral+short, up/twds+short+jab .
3. Exact Command: J. (hold d/away) RH, dn/twd, dn/away, nuetral+Fierce, up/twds+K .
4. Exact Command: J. (hold d/away) RH, dn/twd, dn/away+Fierce, up/twds+K

Brian's right though. Anyways, in order to do any of these combos you need to be able to execute the super motion flawlessly, and with ease. I reccomend starting off with learning the Renda Kara Cancel. A renda Kara Cancel is a kara cancel that allows you to cancel chain attack combos in to Supers. You perform one by kara canceling the last attack into the super (ex. here's what you did, hold dn/away, cr. jab, c.jab, dn/twd+jab, dn/away, up/twds+jab+short). The other combos (1 and 3) are much more difficult IMO. Post if you see a problem. :tup:

Oh yeah, here's the alternate execution of the super motion: hold dn/away, dn/twd, dn/away, up/away+K. I guess this is just a preference option.

Thanks a lot man, I'll try it out now. I can actually perform boxer's j.HP, c.LP, c.LP, s.LP into super quite consistently now. Looking to branch out with Guile and his combos.

brian

02-07-2008, 12:07 AM

Anyway practice makes perfect so what the hell right? I mean there is nothing better than seeing Muteki Guile doing a cross up into c.LP into super to turn around the match. Definitely linking his super is part of his over all damage game aside from his ticks, throws, and sonic boom set ups.

I think I've seen one video where muteki did a jump in combo into super, and it was on a dizzy opponent. What muteki matches are you referring to?

misterpoon

02-07-2008, 12:38 AM

OH my GOD i think i can do it!

YEAH!!!

j.HK (buffer down/away) -> c.LP -> down/toward -> up/away -> jab -> super

Tricky timing though. Hhahahaah...

misterpoon

02-07-2008, 03:19 AM

I think I've seen one video where muteki did a jump in combo into super, and it was on a dizzy opponent. What muteki matches are you referring to?

Sorry it was kurahashi.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42xG2V4ZPZI

N-Trade

02-07-2008, 05:20 AM

Sorry it was kurahashi.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42xG2V4ZPZI

LOL dude, wtf??? Wrong kurahashi man!!! Goddamn nearly lost my job :rofl:

fatboy

02-07-2008, 09:22 AM

Sorry it was kurahashi.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42xG2V4ZPZI

LOL... You caught me! + rep!!! LOL... I knew something was up with the age check! :looney:

ShinVega

02-07-2008, 02:26 PM

Yes, I want to play against that Kurahashi. I'd have to perform the Shin - Shoryuken! - :rofl:

Can someone please remind me of the name of the "best" guile player ever (he was from northern cali and I can't remember his name). He still plays occasionally but isn't as good as he was in his prime. This is driving me nuts.

Footsy Bebop

02-07-2008, 02:54 PM

The best US guile player ever was Tomo Ohira.

ShinVega

02-07-2008, 03:20 PM

The best US guile player ever was Tomo Ohira.

Thanks, I was actually thinking of Thomas Osaki; but your name led me to it! I'm trying to find some good old VHS match vids from back in the day, online.

Footsy Bebop

02-07-2008, 03:56 PM

not too many vids back then, just a bunch of guys playing in the back of a comic book store.

fatboy

02-08-2008, 01:31 PM

OK. I have been playing around wth some of these things. I say it right up font. I suck with Guile. However, I can pull the cross up combo out fairly consitantly now. I been doing if over the last week or so since this topic came up. I have pulled it out in a couple of very casual matches.

c/u. lk> cr.lkx2> super (or FK).

It is a 8 hit combo. 77% of the life bar (9+9+9+10+10+10+10+10)

For the life of me, I can not get a 9 hit combo. Not all of the Super's hits connect.

I use the follow motion.

Facing right:

u/f (jump for C/U)~ d/f*, C/U. LK, d/b+cr.lk x 2, d/f ~u/b + lk +mk+ hk ( utrla fast piano and depress)

*note, the d/f switches to b/d upon the C/U and landing.

Here is a little naritive on what has helped me learn to do the combo:

First, I started on turbo 2 (instead of 3). I learned that I did not have to mash the cr.shorts out as fast as possible. You can renda cancel the shorts rather slowly (compared to mashing). When renda kara canceling into the super, I finsh the rest of the motions as fast as posible after the second cr.lk connects.

This might help: If you where counting in measured time where the down beats counts as hits of the combo preformed as slow as possible while still combo'ing, and the time was 4/4 (1- - - -2 - - - - 3 - - - - 4 - - - - ) it timing would be: c/u. lk - - - - cr.lk - - - - cr.lk- Finish - - 4

Again, I am not sure if this is going to help many of you, but this is how I have learned to do it.

Kuprin

02-08-2008, 09:08 PM

Hella fast tempo, but I follow you. I'll have to see if it works for me tomorrow. :)

misterpoon

02-08-2008, 11:37 PM

OK. I have been playing around with some of these things. I say it right up font. I suck with Guile. However, I can pull the cross up combo out fairly consitantly now. I been doing if over the last week or so since this topic came up. I have pulled it out in a couple of very casual matches.

c/u. lk> cr.lkx2> super (or FK).

It is a 8 hit combo. 77% of the life bar (9+9+9+10+10+10+10+10)

For the life of me, I can not get a 9 hit combo. Not all of the Super's hits connect.

Wow never thought of pianoing (thats right, i dont have a joy stick yet) the super. Heheheh...

The 2 crouch jabs make it all the more harder for me.

I practiced with the j.RH, c.LP -> super
as i mentioned earlier.

j.HK (buffer down/away) -> c.LP -> down/toward -> up/away -> jab -> super

I think for the pad, the super motion, d/b, d/f, u/b makes it much easier than the other one mentioned.

As for the timing, the hardest part is probably the cancel from jab to super. The timing is so precise. Reminds me of the Roll Cancel Transitions in CVS2. But it's probably nothing that we Guile players can't get used to.

Btw, just recently jumping on to the Guile bandwagon, the "corner j.RH, c.MP, Sonic boom into toward s.HP" damage just blows me away. This guys getting better with more stuff that i finally get to know. Hahaha...

fatboy

02-11-2008, 11:17 AM

Btw, just recently jumping on to the Guile bandwagon, the "corner j.RH, c.MP, Sonic boom into toward s.HP" damage just blows me away. This guys getting better with more stuff that i finally get to know. Hahaha...

The OLD school BnB combo in the courner was "corner J.HP, Back + HP, HP Sonic boom > toward S.HP"

AKA... Gamepro HF strategy guige, " 4 Fierce Killer/Expert Combo."

misterpoon

02-11-2008, 09:17 PM

The OLD school BnB combo in the corner was "corner J.HP, Back + HP, HP Sonic boom > toward S.HP"

AKA... Gamepro HF strategy guide, " 4 Fierce Killer/Expert Combo."

Game pro and SF... Those old SF Gamepro covers bring back a lot of memories. I didn't care about combos when i was a kid. hahaha....

Thanks, i'll try it asap.

brian

03-19-2008, 01:18 PM

So I've been practicing the crossup, low short x2 hit confirm flashkick combo lately.

I've discovered the following surprising thing I hadnt been aware of:

The flashkick does *not* combo (see caveat below) against: Standing Chun Li, Standing Claw, or Crouching Dictator.

That sucks because those are three of the most important characters you'd want to use this on.

I think this largely explains why you don't see this combo in match vids much. Against DJ and Boxer they can escape the crossup pretty easily with fierce headbutt/rh flashkick unless you time the crossup perfectly on wake up, and against boxer at least you have better wakeup options. You'd be mostly insane to risk trying this on Honda, T Hawk or Zangief. As above the combo basically doesnt work on Chun or Claw, and if your opponent decides to duck for some reason it won't work on Dictator. No one plays Fei Long or Cammy. Blanka can Vertical Ball the crossup. This leaves shotos, Guile and sim as good candidates for this... Not exactly something you're going to use super often.

Caveat: I was * very rarely* able to pull the combo off on standing Chun. This suggests to me that the combo is not technically impossible, but that the timing is *much much* stricter than what it is for other characters.
In training mode I can land low short low short flashkick quite consistently against most characters, against standing Chun, I can get it maybe 1 time in 15 or something. I'm not exactly sure what the requirement is for connecting the flashkick on standing Chun, but its definitely different than for other characters, and I think more or less impossible to do with consistency.

Raisin

03-21-2008, 11:29 AM

[crossup, low short x2 hit confirm flashkick combo]
Cool info, very in-depth, thanks. :tup:

Axel Kelly

03-21-2008, 04:46 PM

You'd be mostly insane to risk trying this on Honda, T Hawk or Zangief.
Why? They're very easy to cross up, so just don't fuck up your timing and you're fine

Caveat: I was * very rarely* able to pull the combo off on standing Chun. This suggests to me that the combo is not technically impossible, but that the timing is *much much* stricter than what it is for other characters.
In training mode I can land low short low short flashkick quite consistently against most characters, against standing Chun, I can get it maybe 1 time in 15 or something. I'm not exactly sure what the requirement is for connecting the flashkick on standing Chun, but its definitely different than for other characters, and I think more or less impossible to do with consistency.
You need to use the short flash kick against Chun
same with Guile's j.rh > cr.strong > flash kick, it needs to be the short one

His four fierce doesn't work on her either

brian

03-21-2008, 08:18 PM

Why? They're very easy to cross up, so just don't fuck up your timing and you're fine

You need to use the short flash kick against Chun
same with Guile's j.rh > cr.strong > flash kick, it needs to be the short one

His four fierce doesn't work on her either

I thought this might be it, but how are you supposed to kara cancel a short into the short flash kick?

BKB

03-21-2008, 08:37 PM

negative edge?

brian

03-21-2008, 09:00 PM

negative edge?

Yeah I tried that but I can't pull it off...

PS: It has always annoyed me how most of the discussion in these threads is about combos, and very little about strategy. Someone ask some strategy questions and I'll see if I can answer!

N-Trade

03-22-2008, 10:55 AM

You need to use the short flash kick against Chun
same with Guile's j.rh > cr.strong > flash kick, it needs to be the short one

You're correct that you need to use the short FK after the cr.strong combo but short FK doesn't work in the combo brian was talking about.

I thought this might be it, but how are you supposed to kara cancel a short into the short flash kick?

I think common belief says you have to perform the combo as: short, short then perform the FK with short~forward. The third short is a standing short and this is quickly kara cancelled into a forward FK. Theoretically, if u wanted to kara cancel with a short FK u would have to do short, short, standing short (whiff), short flash kick. You'd have to press the fourth short very, very quickly after the third press of short (practically impossible) which is why we use forward instead.

Again, that's the theory however, in practice this is not the case and short, short, short FK is very easy.

I noticed that whenever I did the combo as short, short, short~forward FK the short FK almost always came out. I then realised what was actually happening was that the positive edge of the third short performs the standing short and the negative edge performs the flash kick. Thus, with the correct timing in performing the flash kick, you only need to press short 3 times to perform the combo. (Try the combo holding the third short and it won't work which proves it's not a link)

Going back to the combo on Chun-Li, I did some quick testing on Kawaks. You are definitely correct that short, short, short FK doesn't work (I think I got it to connect once in about 30 times but I think she was in the corner). However, when I did short, short, short~RH FK so that the RH flash kick came out it hit her with much greater success (about 80%). However, I find this combo so much harder to do as 90% of the time short FK comes out.

If you observe what FK comes out when u do the combo I'd be interested to see whether it's the forward FK (assuming you press short~forward) or it's actually the short FK. I think you'll find it's the short that comes out.

(Note that I didn't test whether short, short, forward FK works on her.)

PS: It has always annoyed me how most of the discussion in these threads is about combos, and very little about strategy. Someone ask some strategy questions and I'll see if I can answer!

I totally agree. I can't frequent the board much at the moment as I have an exam in a couple weeks but once that's done I'll be asking u for some strategies. I'd be especially interested in exchanging some strategies for fighting against Ryu.

Hellion

03-22-2008, 08:05 PM

Following cancelling a boom against Ryu's Hadoken, I hit him with the tip of a f+MK Sobat.
What next?

Inclination is go to for a d.MK, maybe another and throw a boom.

Even though those two moves don't combo, the frame advantage on both is good enough to stuff everything Ryu does, but you *know* he may just be good enough to mash a jab DP out of it.

However, immediately following those two MK's, you can go for a boom / flashkick right?
The risk seems negligable, I'd go for the two d.MK's.

Maybe next time a d.MK, whiff two rapid fire jabs, boom.
---
Of course you nail him with back fist following the boom/hadoken cancel you push him too far out, what then?

walk forward, f+MK sobat?
walk forward, d.MK?

--
I love going for meaty d.MP's xx boom against my bro, but I realize he's not good at Reversals in the game yet, and that shit could be thrown since you're so close.
Nothing wrong going for a meaty boom following a knockdown though.
--

I always found it interesting how whiffing jabs fast while charging sorta keeps them at the ideal range you left them at, they can't walk back right? Or is my memory fucked up?
In this situation, what is the ideal high-priority poke that stuffs things..

d.LP?
d.MP?
ye'oldie d.MK? (keeping it in check to bait DP's?)

This situation doesn't seem limited to just fighting Ryu, it's pretty much vs any fireball character that's a threat...
Ryu, hadoken, DP
Chun, kikoken, Super (walk speed, throw, s.MP)
etc.

I'd go for s.HK more often were it faster, and were this CvS2 :lol:

brian

03-22-2008, 09:42 PM

Following cancelling a boom against Ryu's Hadoken, I hit him with the tip of a f+MK Sobat.
What next?

Inclination is go to for a d.MK, maybe another and throw a boom.

I think my generic action there would be low jab, low forward. Then walk backwards, or sonic boom, or do nothing. Sobat-> low forward as a generic play seems risky.

Of course you nail him with back fist following the boom/hadoken cancel you push him too far out, what then?

I tend to go for the backfist by default, and then my generic followup is backwards sobat, and then sonic boom. If he threw an immediate fireball you may have to block or jump up or whatever. If he really loves to throw fireballs after being backfisted, then tag him with a jump in eventually.

I think backfist followed by walking forward and attacking is probably going to get you in trouble.

Also isnt whiffing lots of low jabs against ryu going to get you swept?

I think alot of Guile's have the wrong philosophy in the Ryu match:
Its not that Guile is trying to get in and Ryu is trying to keep him out. It's more the other way around.. Guile is throwing sonic booms all day long making it hard for Ryu to get in. If Ryu overdoes the fireballs, Guile can tag him with kicks to the face, but Ryu doesn't have the same luxury.

your offense mostly consists of little hit and run sessions: Get in, do a sobat, maybe a low jab low forward, then walk backwards and go back to throwing booms.

Hellion

03-22-2008, 10:06 PM

Just getting a strat session going.
So we're basically going for 1 hit the whole time, that and chip.

Yeah, whiffing a lot of low jabs would get you swept.
A d.LP, d.MK looks good, though you said you go for backfist more, perhaps in Sagat's case then.

Guess I'm fishing for patterns to use on the fly and avoid when they become common in a match. How is it said again, the stuff you do throughout the most makes the things you do the least (the safest and most effective of which) that much more unexpected?

How often do JPN Guile's walk forward and throw?

---which sonic booms would you use in these instances?
I think up close about sweep range I'd use Fierce, throughout the rest of the screen anything goes for spacing purposes really.

---How about just getting close enough to backfist after a boom?
It seems patience and allowing blocked fireballs to push you back after a jump in or two knee bazookas are expected, or an occasional anticipated jump spaced and timed right so as to be rather out of range for a DP...
Or do you walk forward and only build charge once you've gained a good amount of footing here?

I'm not particularly interested in combos with Guile anyway since he never struck me as a "combo machine" in the first place.

brian

03-22-2008, 10:33 PM

Its not really about chip per se, as it as about countering all the moves (hurricanes, jump straight up, jump towards, fireballs) that your opponent tries to use to get around your sonics. Thats where your damage comes from.

I guess I use backfist not sobat becuase Im tending to cancel fireballs with sonics from long range where I need the full range of the backfist.

I rarely try to throw after a blocked sonic boom... the risk/reward just isnt there. On the other hand following a sonic and then throwing after ducking for a sec to make them block, or just doing the throw at awkward suprising times is ok once in a while.

Against Ryu I tend to throw fierce sonics, but mix in jab ones to make it harder for him to short hurricane over them.

Here's a really important thing about getting around Ryu fireballs:

If Ryu is hailing fireballs on you from full screen, then you have the option of seeing a fireball, and jumping forward *on reaction* and landing safely. This requires no guesswork.. you see the fireball, then empty jump foward, and Ryu cant do anything if you did it quickly enough (from full screen).