Balrog Thread

[delphikiwiggin]

have you tried standing HP?

also, any tips against blanka?anyone? like does cr. mk beat his slide?

[studtrooper]

cr.mp should beat it seeing how it is pretty much invincible. Timing has to be good though. I'd rather jump in with a HP or HK.

[studtrooper]

Anyone have any tips for Chun (o.chun seems near the same except slightly easier to deal with). I've been running into a lot of Chuns lately that really know how to zone the hell out of roggy :(

Does rog have anything in his arsenal to trade with Chun in the air? That damn jp.MK or whatever she has is just stupid priority. And the f'in neckbreaker crossup shenanigans make me cry :(

I know I'm supposed to trade st.FP a lot with her fireballs, but that is pretty hard to time in the heat of the moment.

[Bob Sagat]

I thought I was getting pretty good with Rog, but I gotta ask: What the fuck are you supposed to do against Dee Jay?
I almost never get the chance to play against a Dee Jay player, most of the time people just pick him to get out of the Jamaica level and then they find out they can rape me for free. It's embarrassing.:sad:

His slide seems to go through most everything, his j. Jab seems to stuff my headbutt...

Anybody got a good, basic strategy I can work from? Thanks!


Bob Sagat. The guy who never picks Sagat.

[studtrooper]

Jumping HP/HK seems to beat or trade with the slide a lot. HP headbutt through fireballs only when you know you will hit him. All you really need to do is get in with a charge, because then he can't fireball. Get him in a corner and it is usually GGPO.

[Bob Sagat]

I'll try that. Thanks man!

[Xeno-V]

I am trying to find ways to do one charged move after the other.

I do the headbutt by pressing db, ub+p so that I can keep the charge and do a punch rush or a super right after the headbutt.
How can you keep the charge after a punch rush?
Is there a way when doing low punch rushes because you have to end the motion by inputting df?
I tried to go from df to db but it seems that I always lose the charge and I can't keep the pressure.

Besides that do you have any suggestions about pressing your opponents such as certain attack strings etc?

[Shadowless]

Buffalo headbutt is charge D, U+punch. So DF -> UF is valid.

If you do your punch rush as DB -> DF + punch, you can hold your D charge, and use it for buffalo headbutt. If you're having trouble, it might be because you're accidentally moving to F, or simply need to wait a little bit longer to recover from your dash punch.

Not an expert, just some things to try.

[Xeno-V]

Actually I was wondering if there was a way to keep the B charge after a punch rush. I apologize for not making myself clear.
If not what else is there to do? Something like punch rush -> tap -> punch rush or punch rush -> cr mp or cr mk and then more punch rushes?
I don't use the headbutt that much, most of the times I use it in order to avoid projectiles etc.

I also have a very hard time doing TAP with a stick, but that's another matter.

[scaryice]

If not what else is there to do? Something like punch rush -> tap -> punch rush or punch rush -> cr mp or cr mk and then more punch rushes?

Standing fierce is good too.

[fatboy]

I thought I was getting pretty good with Rog, but I gotta ask: What the fuck are you supposed to do against Dee Jay?
I almost never get the chance to play against a Dee Jay player, most of the time people just pick him to get out of the Jamaica level and then they find out they can rape me for free. It's embarrassing.:sad:

His slide seems to go through most everything, his j. Jab seems to stuff my headbutt...

Anybody got a good, basic strategy I can work from? Thanks!


Bob Sagat. The guy who never picks Sagat.

I would ask Graham Wolfe about that.... He knows how to win it. He has beat many great DJ players in tourny play. PM him if he doesn't post.

[Bob Sagat]

Hey, thanks man!

[MasterFiends]

Hey guys I just wanted to confirm about the cr.Jab x 2 xx Super combo, if the cpu is registering it as a 7 hit combo i'm doing it correctly?

Because sometimes i think i've done the combo accurately, I see the character still in hit stun while the super is connecting however the cpu is registering a 5 hit combo.

Also i've tried negative edging the last jab for a more guaranteed way of landing the combo then releasing it and quickly pressing fierce after towards-back-towards. I find this helps, has anyone else tried doing this? I also found that I didn't have to press fierce just release jab after towards-back-towards and the super would come out, but slower, is it possible to land the combo this way?

Edit: I'm not sure why but for some strange reason I find landing cr.jab x2 xx st.jab xx super more easier to land, but is that not guaranteed on all small chars?

[Shadowless]

Actually I was wondering if there was a way to keep the B charge after a punch rush. I apologize for not making myself clear.
If not what else is there to do? Something like punch rush -> tap -> punch rush or punch rush -> cr mp or cr mk and then more punch rushes?
I don't use the headbutt that much, most of the times I use it in order to avoid projectiles etc.

I also have a very hard time doing TAP with a stick, but that's another matter.

Buffalo headbutt is quite good. You want to use it when you're close to your opponent, so that it hits late. Right after a dash punch is great. It's got great priority and good invincibility at the start. It'll catch them if they stop blocking or try to jump, does chip, and builds a lot of meter for his amazing super.

If you get the knack down, you can switch up between dash punch, headbutt, and TAP punch, throwing out charge moves non-stop. As mentioned before, standing fierce punch is also very powerful. And if you get them scared, dash punch upper -> throw is also very strong. I think, I'm a noob.

There is no way to keep a B charge after a dash punch. However, you CAN quickly do:

Charge b, f + LK, b, f + punch

That should quickly do a dash upper, then cancel it into your super. The extra distance is enough to punish a fireball from full screen, if you anticipate it.

Thanks to airthrow for the explanation why you should do it that way.

[Airthrow]

Always do the charge back, d/f+short kick, b,f+P (super) to blow through the fireball though, because it has much better recovery than the punch rushes and even the b,f+k rushes, even though the animation is the same. Which means you're less likely to get hit by the FB and have more time to cancel.

You can also lvl 1 TAP, super blowthrough for FBs.

[Xeno-V]

Thanks guys for all the info.
The fun part is that before reading your posts I was doing b df+lk -> super just because I realised that the low short kick rush has great recovery.
I didn't know though that I could use it in order to punish fireballs etc. I ll really need it against shotos etc.

Masterfiends this is a 7 hit combo indeed. Personally i think that it's easier than adding a st. lp before the super but that's me.
I also think that the cr lp x2 xx super is better because the st. lp will whiff against crouching opponents.

From a stun you could do sth like j. hk, cr lpx2, st. lp xx super but I only did it in training mode, I don't think that I will be able to pull it off consistently any time soon.


As for st. hp I don't know if it's that good for keeping the pressure on. It has great range etc but wouldn't it be better if I used a crouching poke instead?

[Shadowless]

I'm not an expert, but I do see experts using st. HP.

I would guess this is because st. HP can trade with almost anything at the right range, and the damage will usually be extremely in your favor.

A crouching poke would be better for charging up, but I don't think he has any crouching attacks that have the range of st. HP, so they may not actually be able to, you know, hit your opponent. But it may have its uses. Possibly to bait dragon punches, if you're far enough away. If you're not far enough away, you may choose to simply block, and then try to jump or headbutt through projectiles, headbutt if they try to jump in, dash punch or headbutt if they whiff an anti-air.

You can also jump in, if you're feeling gutsy (or your opponent doesn't have a strong invincible anti-air, or you saw them lose their charge), which allows you to start charging on the way in, and is a good way to tick-throw.

If you're close to your opponent, you can do pretty much anything you want, really. I'd say he's the best there is when you're within 1/3 screen distance.

[studtrooper]

You can also lvl 1 TAP, super blowthrough for FBs.

What? I'm pretty sure TAPs (up to lvl 2) only have invincibility in Hyper Fighting.

[Bob Sagat]

What? I'm pretty sure TAPs (up to lvl 2) only have invincibility in Hyper Fighting.

I think he means use TAP in stead of punch rush to get some distance in before the super.

[studtrooper]

Ahhhhh. I get it. Sorry :x

[MasterFiends]

Could someone please tell me the execution of this combo:
j.RH, st.Forward xx low kick rush (the one that knocks down)

The rest of the practical combos are no problem, but I can't seem to get the charge for the low kick rush in order for it to be complete. Does the j.RH have to hit the character as late as possible in order to build the charge, is it down jumping straight up but holding u/b, not sure what the trick is to pull it off?

[fatboy]

Far st. forward in not cancelable into specials. Is that the st.forward that is coming out in your combo? Could that be the problem?

[scaryice]

No trick, just practice.

[rikstron]

Any tips on fighting Ryu? Especially one that plays good keep away.

[studtrooper]

Zoning shotos/Guile/Chun/Dhalsim have the potential to be 'Rogs worst nightmares. It's even worse when they have the reaction ability to get out of hitstun/blockstun with a reversal. It's a sucky matchup, and pretty much the only thing you can do is somehow get your opponent into a corner and keep him there to limit his options.

[deadfrog]

Guys, I have a stuuuupid request.

Does anyone know off the top of their head where I could find video of a competent Boxer player's hands while he's playing?

Maybe even with the simultaneous in-game action that goes along with it? I can't tell you how many YouTube videos I've torn through hoping to see this.

[Shadowless]

I don't know of one.

The boxer players I know will sometimes hold down 3K with the lower/middle portion of their finger while using their fingertips to press punches when charging the TAP. Of course, it means giving up cr.MK, but yeah.

[BoggleMinds]

Guys, I have a stuuuupid request.

Does anyone know off the top of their head where I could find video of a competent Boxer player's hands while he's playing?

Maybe even with the simultaneous in-game action that goes along with it? I can't tell you how many YouTube videos I've torn through hoping to see this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F98p0yNnb1I
(Tamashima vs Muteki)

There isn't that much to see here, except that Tamashima uses the conventional method of palming 3K to charge TAP.

[deadfrog]

Thanks a lot for the replies, dudes. Kinda funny, I'd watched that match before and I never even thought about the hands at the time!

[studtrooper]

I just gave up on it. My hands are too big to be holding down KKK with the bottom of my fingers. LvL 1&2 TAPs ftw!

[Nintendo King]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F98p0yNnb1I
(Tamashima vs Muteki)

There isn't that much to see here, except that Tamashima uses the conventional method of palming 3K to charge TAP.

woah! the 4 hit guile combo was brutal

[Xeno-V]

Guys do you have any suggestions for some attack strings that i could use on turtling opponents?
I use sth like j. mk, cr. lpx2, cr. mp, low jab rush. I know that it won't combo on hit and that it can be reversed after the cr. lpx2 but I guess that it's not that easy, especially when I'm playing online.
After that I may follow with a lv 1-2 TAP or a straight jab rush (whiff) into throw but I'm sure that there are better things to do and more varied mixups.

Any suggestions?

[scaryice]

Guys do you have any suggestions for some attack strings that i could use on turtling opponents?

I use sth like j. mk, cr. lpx2, cr. mp, low jab rush.

End with low dash uppercut instead, then either throw or go into a headbutt.

[ImmortalTechnique]

So I don't know how many opportunities i've had online to get the extra damage. I land meaty cr.forward-cr.strong all the time. But I've only properly canceled it maybe 1/15 times. And that's probably a high estimate. I am on a HRAP 3. So what is the motion I should be doing? As soon as I hit cr.strong button, and before I even see anything come out should I be bringing the stick across for the rush? Anyways any help you can offer would be great. And i'm sorry if this has been asked earlier in the thread. And what buttons should I be pressing for the rush? jab? or negative edge from the cr.strong?

[BoggleMinds]

So I don't know how many opportunities i've had online to get the extra damage. I land meaty cr.forward-cr.strong all the time. But I've only properly canceled it maybe 1/15 times. And that's probably a high estimate. I am on a HRAP 3. So what is the motion I should be doing? As soon as I hit cr.strong button, and before I even see anything come out should I be bringing the stick across for the rush? Anyways any help you can offer would be great. And i'm sorry if this has been asked earlier in the thread. And what buttons should I be pressing for the rush? jab? or negative edge from the cr.strong?

Jab or short rush, of course. Try executing it as soon as you see the cr. strong connect (blocked or not). The whole three-in-one should have a steady "rhythm" to it.

[zerodotjander]

What are good options for Balrog on wakeup against an opponent that is jumping in for a crossup?

Reversal headbutt seems pretty obvious, but if you miss the reversal, you can eat a big combo. Plus, depending on how deep they jump in, on occasion I'll get a headbutt out and we'll both whiff, then I get punished on headbutt's recovery.

Lately I've been trying LK rush on wakeup, which seems to work pretty well so far - it can straight up anti-air them, or move me out from under them and recover immediately in time to either block or headbutt or try something. Is this safe? Also, can it be buffered into super? I feel like you could hold DB, go to DF, press LK, DF turns into DB because they crossed you up, then go back to the other side (now DF) and press punch for super. So you just move the stick from diagonal to the other and back. Does this actually work?

[BoggleMinds]

What are good options for Balrog on wakeup against an opponent that is jumping in for a crossup?

Reversal headbutt seems pretty obvious, but if you miss the reversal, you can eat a big combo. Plus, depending on how deep they jump in, on occasion I'll get a headbutt out and we'll both whiff, then I get punished on headbutt's recovery.

Lately I've been trying LK rush on wakeup, which seems to work pretty well so far - it can straight up anti-air them, or move me out from under them and recover immediately in time to either block or headbutt or try something. Is this safe? Also, can it be buffered into super? I feel like you could hold DB, go to DF, press LK, DF turns into DB because they crossed you up, then go back to the other side (now DF) and press punch for super. So you just move the stick from diagonal to the other and back. Does this actually work?

I believe you can execute the super whilst being crossed up, yes. But it's generally not a safe move to headbutt on wakeup, as most characters have a safe jump that will completely negate the headbutt. Your safest option is to simply block and be ready for throws or crossup shenanigans.

[Airthrow]

I just gave up on it. My hands are too big to be holding down KKK with the bottom of my fingers. LvL 1&2 TAPs ftw!

You don't hold it down with the bottom of your fingers. At first I thought my hands were too big too, but you use the ridge of your palm....

It's debateable whether large TAPS are worth it, IMO it only is against certain characters.

[Bob Sagat]

You don't hold it down with the bottom of your fingers. At first I thought my hands were too big too, but you use the ridge of your palm....

It's debateable whether large TAPS are worth it, IMO it only is against certain characters.

I recently got lucky and won a match I was gonna lose with a large TAP. That was awesome.

[studtrooper]

What are good options for Balrog on wakeup against an opponent that is jumping in for a crossup?

Reversal headbutt seems pretty obvious, but if you miss the reversal, you can eat a big combo. Plus, depending on how deep they jump in, on occasion I'll get a headbutt out and we'll both whiff, then I get punished on headbutt's recovery.

Lately I've been trying LK rush on wakeup, which seems to work pretty well so far - it can straight up anti-air them, or move me out from under them and recover immediately in time to either block or headbutt or try something. Is this safe? Also, can it be buffered into super? I feel like you could hold DB, go to DF, press LK, DF turns into DB because they crossed you up, then go back to the other side (now DF) and press punch for super. So you just move the stick from diagonal to the other and back. Does this actually work?

If it looks like it won't be a meaty crossup, I usually go for a lp low rush. The recovery is so quick that it moves me out of the way and I usually get a free throw out of it.

If they do it right though (meaty or really damn close to meaty), just block it unless it is Honda/Gief/Hawk (who would almost always nail you with a command grab afterwards).

[megakuma]

Guys, do you have any good strategies and tips against dictator?
I can't find any real info about this match-up on the Net.

Thanks!

Megakuma

[studtrooper]

That's a tough matchup to describe since Bison can be played so many different ways. Some things to note:

You should be able to counter a blocked slide or knee bash nearly all the time if you are charged with a headbutt. If you have meter, use your super instead of headbutt. Usually GGPO at that point.

Headbutt will beat just about everything Bison has (pretty much everything except his super I think). Keep this in mind if your opponent likes to constantly throw out annoying standing MKs.

Jumping HP/HK will stuff the psycho crusher. Use this if you see a psycho coming from a mile away but don't have charge.

Even though Bison is known for his throw shenanigans, 'Rogs throw shenanigans are better! Do not be afraid to walk under him after a throw, crouch MK, and throw again (try to use the MP throw as it has more range).

If Bison gets meter, try to bait him to use it while you're blocking. Bison players have a bad habit of attempting to throw out of a blocked super, so you should be ready with a nice headbutt reversal for him to eat.

Personally, I like to throw Bison in a corner with 'Rog and keep him in a continual state of blockstun. I win this match with 'Rog WAAAY more than I lose it.

[Airthrow]

Headbutt loses to lk scissors I believe though.

[Bluebottel]

Does anyone have more input on the sim matchup? Im having serious difficulties with him.
To be precise i dont really know what to do once im in that kinda-in-but-not-really-so state.
I predict a fireball, jump it and land safely. What now? I feel naked without the charge for low rush punch and st. fp doesnt seem to do the trick.
Also, are there any tricks to his fireballtrap? Unless i have the outmost precision in jumping over the fireball, i eat a st. rh or a st. fp just before landing.

[megakuma]

That's a tough matchup to describe since Bison can be played so many different ways. Some things to note:

You should be able to counter a blocked slide or knee bash nearly all the time if you are charged with a headbutt. If you have meter, use your super instead of headbutt. Usually GGPO at that point.

Headbutt will beat just about everything Bison has (pretty much everything except his super I think). Keep this in mind if your opponent likes to constantly throw out annoying standing MKs.

Jumping HP/HK will stuff the psycho crusher. Use this if you see a psycho coming from a mile away but don't have charge.

Even though Bison is known for his throw shenanigans, 'Rogs throw shenanigans are better! Do not be afraid to walk under him after a throw, crouch MK, and throw again (try to use the MP throw as it has more range).

If Bison gets meter, try to bait him to use it while you're blocking. Bison players have a bad habit of attempting to throw out of a blocked super, so you should be ready with a nice headbutt reversal for him to eat.

Personally, I like to throw Bison in a corner with 'Rog and keep him in a continual state of blockstun. I win this match with 'Rog WAAAY more than I lose it.

Thanks for the info!

Some more questions:

- How can I beat or at least trade with his headpress after blocking?
- Will my super beat his super or is it vice versa?
- What is the best strategy against a turtle dic? If he's in he'll chip the hell out of me with his normals and scissorkicks.
- What's the best way to approach him from distance?

[zerodotjander]

Disclaimer: not an expert.

There's no simple answer for what to do against Sim, it depends on your opponent and a lot of it is just mind games. Fortunately, you win a lot more every time you guess right than he does when he guesses right.

Various options-

At absolute full screen, jab headbutt through to build meter, he shouldn't be able to hit you from that far away.

Jump straight up over the fireball, release TAP when you land. He can cr.MP or cr.HP you out of this, but if you have a higher TAP (5-6) it will be extremely fast and if they are trying to fireball again you'll generally hit them and at least trade. This is also a good option for building meter.

Jump straight up over the fireball, press jab. You'll stick out your fist, which can stuff some of Sim's attacks. Release TAP when you land.

Walk forward, block - gain a little ground.

Jump over, MK - will hit or trade with some attacks.

Jump over, HP/HK - will hit or trade with different attacks then MK.

Jump over, MP - will hit or trade with different attacks than MK or HP/HK.

If you guess right once, that's worth 2-3 times you guess wrong, so mix it up and try to figure out what he is going to do.

If you are guessing wrong all the time, stay defensive and just do little jab headbutts and higher TAPs.

Once you have meter, the whole game changes and you have various new options, like jab headbutt, LK rush into super; fierce headbutt, super; jump back in corner, tap, super, etc.

The most important thing is to capitalize once you get in and knock him down, don't let him push you back out.

[Khiempossible]

Jump straight up over the fireball, release TAP when you land. He can cr.MP or cr.HP you out of this, but if you have a higher TAP (5-6) it will be extremely fast and if they are trying to fireball again you'll generally hit them and at least trade. This is also a good option for building meter.

Jump straight up over the fireball, press jab. You'll stick out your fist, which can stuff some of Sim's attacks. Release TAP when you land.

sim punishes straight jumps over fireballs with low jab. so i'm not sure how effective these two strats you bring up are.

[Airthrow]

Thanks for the info!

Some more questions:
- Will my super beat his super or is it vice versa?


I believe if neither of you are in invincibility frames anymore then his super will beat yours or trade. It might be possible to time yours later so you have more invincibility frames, but since his super is a scissor kick which beats rushes, I think in general you get lucky if it even trades instead of losing.

This is off the top of my head though, but I sure don't remember ever being in a match and thinking I could punish his super with mine.
- What is the best strategy against a turtle dic? If he's in he'll chip the hell out of me with his normals and scissorkicks.
Throw, d/f+short kickrush>throw. You can't tech get thrown by a crouching opponent. Deep Jump in RH him all day which will beat anything he can do crouching (unless you shallow jump, which he can cr. fierce).
- What's the best way to approach him from distance?

Jump a lot with RH and j. jab to beat a lot of his stuff, then straight punches and taps, low rush is less good against Dic because of scissors.