Balrog Thread

[Graham]

ST Balrog/Old ST Balrog questions can be asked in this thread. I'll update it regularly.

Normals:
C.MP - This is his best ground attack, despite not hitting low, the entire arm is safe and cannot be hit, but can hit the enemy (its a completely red hitbox, no blue).
C.HP - Best anti-air non-special. Hits early and late, unlike most moves in game.
S.MP(far) - Second best anti-air move. Has more range than the C.HP.

I'll add more over time, just ask away and ill be happy to fill in info about him.

[juddz]

Thx for the tips are there any tutorials vids for balrog or some guides?

[DarkZero]

What are some good tricks for TAP?

[Graham]

What are some good tricks for TAP?

vs shotos i use the tap randomly making sure that it never saves up past 4, between 1-4 is a good pace for them, usually try not to do too many 1's though.

vs sim i use the higher taps, sometimes reaching up to 6.

vs guile, chun, dj i occasionally throw in taps, not frequently though because these characters projectiles protect themselves.

A technique i use to sometimes land the tap is i release it from very far right when the opponent is getting up from a knockdown so that they are actually on their feet when i release it. This space im giving them to get up usually makes them attack or do something and then the punch flies across the screen and hits em.

[doujinshi_2001]

good shit

more boxer tricks plz! i'm trying to pick him up. thx

[Dragon_Light]

Finally an SSF2T forum. I was wondering why SRK didn't have one in the first place.

Anyhow, I was wondering what the technique used to do dash straight/upper into super looks like. What's the principle really? I've seen it done in vids and it definitely isn't TAP.

[tataki]

c.mk is still great to whiff to catch those normals that go under c.mp



Anyhow, I was wondering what the technique used to do dash straight/upper into super looks like. What's the principle really? I've seen it done in vids and it definitely isn't TAP.
charge b, f+p/k, b,f+p/k
since they start with the same notation you just add another b,f after the rush to finish the super motion.

edit: and far s.hp is great at its max range

[margalis]

My best advice is to remember that you can do a dash punch after the buffalo headbutt and vice versa.

Whenever you do a headbutt do it to up/back. Whenever you do a low dash punch keep holding down. A lot of people do flash kick moves by going to up or up/forward, which is just a silly waste of charge.

[tataki]

My best advice is to remember that you can do a dash punch after the buffalo headbutt and vice versa.

Whenever you do a headbutt do it to up/back. Whenever you do a low dash punch keep holding down. A lot of people do flash kick moves by going to up or up/forward, which is just a silly waste of charge.

yeah i started to do it a long time ago after i watched daigo doing it in a vid.

copying a post from the general thread so ppl can see it:

insanity dvd has some decent balrog players on it. I think one even wins the tournament. They arent bad and use non turnaround punch style for some matches so youll see some fast paced action, unfortunately all my vids from evo west were vs sim so i had to use slow paced balrog (turnaround punch long charge).

There are basically 4 styles of balrog play.

Fast paced = no tap or very limited usage of it (level 1 tap), so you can do dashing shorts and grabs alot, this style is good vs guile, blanka, and other chars without fireballs.

Fast paced tap = level 2-4 max taps mixed with occasional dash shorts and lots of consecutive tap+low dashes usually vs shotos.

Mixed = sometimes charging tap up to level 3-4 and sometimes playing without tap, this is usually for oddball chars like vs st chun.

Slow paced tap = charging sometimes up to level 5-7 tap along with alot of blocking and carefully selected low dashes, this generally happens vs sim

I should be getting paid to reveal this stuff =)

BTW there is also a defensive style with rog which is good vs gief, and honda. I dont consider it one of his 4 'stances' though.

[moop]

Was looking at alt.games.sf2 archives... Julien's posts are fun to read. Especially when he is writing about not being able to headbutt jump-ins (safe jumps) not knowing they are completely safe if done properly.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.sf2/tree/browse_frm/thread/5f979a1f774fa885/e6c88151206c16ff?rnum=1&q=julien+balrog&_done=%2Fgroup%2Falt.games.sf2%2Fbrowse_frm%2Fthre ad%2F5f979a1f774fa885%2F4c989fe12b3f1471%3Flnk%3Dg st%26q%3Djulien+balrog%26rnum%3D9%26#doc_4c989fe12 b3f1471

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.sf2/tree/browse_frm/thread/ba7ef8e4aea5cf8a/4618d1f547a480ab?rnum=1&q=julien+beasley+st&_done=%2Fgroup%2Falt.games.sf2%2Fbrowse_frm%2Fthre ad%2Fba7ef8e4aea5cf8a%2Fb932fb9c21da63f3%3Flnk%3Ds t%26q%3Djulien+beasley+st%26rnum%3D3%26#doc_4618d1 f547a480ab

Wonder if Julien was talking about Kurahashi.

[BoggleMinds]

Was looking at alt.games.sf2 archives... Julien's posts are fun to read. Especially when he is writing about not being able to headbutt jump-ins (safe jumps) not knowing they are completely safe if done properly.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.sf2/tree/browse_frm/thread/5f979a1f774fa885/e6c88151206c16ff?rnum=1&q=julien+balrog&_done=%2Fgroup%2Falt.games.sf2%2Fbrowse_frm%2Fthre ad%2F5f979a1f774fa885%2F4c989fe12b3f1471%3Flnk%3Dg st%26q%3Djulien+balrog%26rnum%3D9%26#doc_4c989fe12 b3f1471

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.sf2/tree/browse_frm/thread/ba7ef8e4aea5cf8a/4618d1f547a480ab?rnum=1&q=julien+beasley+st&_done=%2Fgroup%2Falt.games.sf2%2Fbrowse_frm%2Fthre ad%2Fba7ef8e4aea5cf8a%2Fb932fb9c21da63f3%3Flnk%3Ds t%26q%3Djulien+beasley+st%26rnum%3D3%26#doc_4618d1 f547a480ab

Wonder if Julien was talking about Kurahashi.

It was probably Aniken.

[tataki]

Was looking at alt.games.sf2 archives... Julien's posts are fun to read. Especially when he is writing about not being able to headbutt jump-ins (safe jumps) not knowing they are completely safe if done properly.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.sf2/tree/browse_frm/thread/5f979a1f774fa885/e6c88151206c16ff?rnum=1&q=julien+balrog&_done=%2Fgroup%2Falt.games.sf2%2Fbrowse_frm%2Fthre ad%2F5f979a1f774fa885%2F4c989fe12b3f1471%3Flnk%3Dg st%26q%3Djulien+balrog%26rnum%3D9%26#doc_4c989fe12 b3f1471

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.sf2/tree/browse_frm/thread/ba7ef8e4aea5cf8a/4618d1f547a480ab?rnum=1&q=julien+beasley+st&_done=%2Fgroup%2Falt.games.sf2%2Fbrowse_frm%2Fthre ad%2Fba7ef8e4aea5cf8a%2Fb932fb9c21da63f3%3Flnk%3Ds t%26q%3Djulien+beasley+st%26rnum%3D3%26#doc_4618d1 f547a480ab

Wonder if Julien was talking about Kurahashi.

good stuff but what he said about upward j.hp vs sim doesn't hit both sim's s.hp and s.hk like he said.
you still need different timing for each case.
but what i do see players do is to do the j.hp it in the timing to hit the hk (early) and then hold B to go outside of sim's hp range.

edit: ok i have a major problem vs a claw player that mixes up crouching kicks, jumping with mk on me like crazy, crossing me up and throwing me as he lands, and sometimes goes for a [d]u+k mix up (and jumping back with mp doesn't work all the time).
i have no idea what to do to stop it besides random headbutts...
help me plz :sad:

[Eric H]

What I love the most about Balrog is the speed he has. He can be a hard boss at times if you dont know how to properly counter him move for move.

[Graham]

edit: ok i have a major problem vs a claw player that mixes up crouching kicks, jumping with mk on me like crazy, crossing me up and throwing me as he lands, and sometimes goes for a [d]u+k mix up (and jumping back with mp doesn't work all the time).
i have no idea what to do to stop it besides random headbutts...
help me plz :sad:

always be charged for headbutt, when he goes off the wall do a fierce headbutt before he hits you or gets near you. Thats the safe escape for off the wall move.

as for ground game, if he jumps, ducking fierce, if he is playing the poke game, your low strong hits his low strong, your low forward hits his slide. But you should attempt to jab low dash in when he is at the perfect range. What i do with vega is counter the rushes with low strong but only when im far enough away to react, when he is closer than 3/4 to full screen its hard to react to those low rushes and you can catch him offguard, if you manage to knock him down you should cheap the hell outta him.

[Darkside3024]

What does TAP mean? Is it a move? A tactic?

[moop]

acronym for turn around punch (press all punch or kick buttons)

[tataki]

any tips vs chun li (when getting close to her, since moop covered the far away part) and vs guile and vs honda? (besides mashing standing jab)

[Graham]

any tips vs chun li (when getting close to her, since moop covered the far away part) and vs guile and vs honda? (besides mashing standing jap)

vs chun i try to keep some distance and do rushes whenever possible, if i am close ill jump at her usually

vs honda stay back do low strongs to counter headbutts and keep charged for buffalo headbutt, do it if he tries to sit or jump at you

vs guile, dont charge the tap, do low rushes to counter low forwards, do low forwards close, and standing fierces on occasion, jump at him when you can with fierce if he does sonic boom and you arent too close.

[Hermy]

For Graham, more of a curiousity question than something to improve my play, im just really bored:

Vs. Sim, is the reason you charge the TAP longer because it beats Sim's longer pokes, and because Sim pokes a lot? I don't have a game available to test if the TAP beats limbs but it makes sense to me.

All of this Rog info has made me really want to learn him. Probably one of the most fun characters to watch/play.

[tataki]

For Graham, more of a curiousity question than something to improve my play, im just really bored:

Vs. Sim, is the reason you charge the TAP longer because it beats Sim's longer pokes, and because Sim pokes a lot? I don't have a game available to test if the TAP beats limbs but it makes sense to me.


cuz he keeps you half screen away and the tap is one of the ways to get close and do some damage, so you need it to travel a long distance. plus you need better damage to make better trades with limbs and yoga fires.

[Graham]

For Graham, more of a curiousity question than something to improve my play, im just really bored:

Vs. Sim, is the reason you charge the TAP longer because it beats Sim's longer pokes, and because Sim pokes a lot? I don't have a game available to test if the TAP beats limbs but it makes sense to me.

All of this Rog info has made me really want to learn him. Probably one of the most fun characters to watch/play.

actually the reason i use tap is because the match is a slow match for balrog, dhalsim can keep you out pretty good, and the chance of getting an opening is very slim, and when it happens its nice to have a hard hitting move, usually i can spend sometimes 20-30 seconds waiting for an opening.

[tataki]

vs honda stay back do low strongs to counter headbutts

doesn't work very well for some reason... i either block or take the hit or trade.

[Graham]

doesn't work very well for some reason... i either block or take the hit or trade.

if you cant time the low strong properly, then switch to using rapid standing jabs.

[CarlosZ]

I have a question about the TAP

How the hell do you properly use it I mean, you have to to hold the buttons don't you? What are you doing when using TAP? Which one is used more frequently, kick or punch version?

Also isn't j.mk a good jump in?

[xX_Deus_Xx]

how do you position your fingers for the tap?

it kinda seems hard to hold down 3 buttons while pressing others.

[Shag]

I use the bottom of my fingers (directly above the lower joints) to charge kick TAP and use my fingertips for punch buttons. Place your fingers over the 3 rows so that all 6 buttons are pressed. Now try to lift the top of your fingers while still holding the lower column (kick buttons) in place.

I'm sure this is awkward for some but I've done this since HF days and I'm quite used to it now.

[Graham]

yeah i do the same method as the poster above me. Yes it does limit your ability to play, which is why when im being cheaped alot i tend to stop charging tap to have better control of my button presses. I still play well with tap held down and can reverse cheaps etc. I just dont like trying to shake outta noogies with tap held as much but yes it is possible and i do that sometimes if i need to save my tap (down by 75% life) or whatever.

[xX_Deus_Xx]

sounds hard. have you considered using macros? haha.

[Graham]

sounds hard. have you considered using macros? haha.

i know you're joking, but no, in fact me and my bro disabled the PPP and KKK auto assigns recently on our controllers to practice for our trip to japan. Obviously the arcades wont have those functions and thats where we plan on playing.

[CarlosZ]

Graham I watched some evo west videos when you and your brother played, I have a few questions.

I didn't really see you use Jab's, alot of fierce's though. Is jab not that useful for balrog? Especially charge move --> to a fierce (particular to sim or...)

I saw you used st. Fierce against Sim, is that just an opening is genrally safe or just a particular thing against sim?

Is there ever an actual time for a safe jump for rog? Or is it just better to use charge moves to move in closer?

Is there a use for cr. Forward?

and How often do you find yourself not using TAP?

[oyg]

since I can't get on the ST wiki part of SRK...
I was wondering how the matchup is between Boxer vs. Claw

[Professor Jones]

Anybody knows of a reliable way do to cr. jab x 2 XX super with Rog ? I can't do it consistently, I think that I need to know how it really works... a technical explanation would really help.

[Duck Strong]

charge down-back, jab jab, towards-back-towards, jab~fierce.

You're cancelling the ducking jabs into standing jab, but then you kara-cancel the standing jab into super.

[Professor Jones]

Works like a charm, thanks !

[thekingofallblacks]

im a super noob and was wondering how do people do one charge move after the other it's amazing how much stuff is in this game. I want to learn so I can destroy the people at my local (well not really) arcade any tips with this would be appricated. thx

[thumbs_up]

about Rogs grabs what are some neat tricks after doing his grab ?

[Graham]

about Rogs grabs what are some neat tricks after doing his grab ?

basics, go behind opponnt low forward, low strong, low jab dash punch or instead do low forward then grab, as an alternate, act as if you'll go under then low roundhouse from the front.

[thumbs_up]

Cool thanks
you know when using his Tap what is the difference between 3P and 3K version....is it just because when using 3P you do kick moves and 3K you do punch moves .... which do you use ? and in what situations do you use them or vs what characters etc....
thanks!

[GREEZY_b]

...anyone got some cool cross up combos after his headbutt throw? i been watching some rog matches and it almost seem guarenteed as they are flying in the air after throw you can just easily press forward and walk under them...

what im asking are for the various damaging things you can do after cross up...appreciate it.

[Footsy Bebop]

charge down-back, jab jab, towards-back-towards, jab~fierce.

You're cancelling the ducking jabs into standing jab, but then you kara-cancel the standing jab into super.


Does that mean you press jab and fierce at the same time? or like piano tap jab and then fierce quickly after it?

[Shag]

Cool thanks
you know when using his Tap what is the difference between 3P and 3K version....is it just because when using 3P you do kick moves and 3K you do punch moves .... which do you use ? and in what situations do you use them or vs what characters etc....
thanks!

There is no difference move wise but you want to use the 3K version so you have access to his punch moves: st.FP, cr.MP, throw, rush punches and buffalo headbutt.

Graham mentioned earlier in the thread when he uses the TAP.

I do a quick meaty TAP after a knockdown, I charge it if I'm at a far distance away. I drop the charge (don't use it at all) if I'm close, a long charged TAP has startup and most likely won't hit plus I want to be able to use cr.MK or cr.HK at any given chance.

...anyone got some cool cross up combos after his headbutt throw? i been watching some rog matches and it almost seem guarenteed as they are flying in the air after throw you can just easily press forward and walk under them...

what im asking are for the various damaging things you can do after cross up...appreciate it.

Did you read the thread? :confused: Graham answered this 2 posts above yours. To add on, you could try doing combos with cr.LP or cr.MP after you walk under them but cr.MK mixups are your best bet.

[Graham]

tap is good in some situations, but rogs mixup short rush grab stuff is also very powerful vs some chars, vs dj for example i dont use tap anymore, my brother can see it and flash kick it so i gotta use his cheap rushes and grabs instead.

[Graham]

double post

[Saotome Kaneda]

basics, go behind opponnt low forward, low strong, low jab dash punch or instead do low forward then grab, as an alternate, act as if you'll go under then low roundhouse from the front.
GRAHAM


Give me tips on rushing down WW Guile w/ST Boxer plz >=O
This dude is the only thing keeping me from dominating Okinawa


WW Guile is so full of BS I swear to God

[Shag]

My advice is don't play AE. heh heh :razz:

Does he spaz on cr.fw after a sonic boom. Does he redizzy you with repeated jab/shorts. I have felt your pain. :sad:

Training for Evo I spent my time focusing on anti-CE Bison and neglected strats against WW/CE Guile. Lost to 2 CE Guile players. :annoy:

[Saotome Kaneda]

My advice is don't play AE. heh heh :razz:

Does he spaz on cr.fw after a sonic boom. Does he redizzy you with repeated jab/shorts. I have felt your pain. :sad:

Training for Evo I spent my time focusing on anti-CE Bison and neglected strats against WW/CE Guile. Lost to 2 CE Guile players. :annoy:
=p My problem is they don't have a dedicated ST board in use on island, they only use HSF. If I was in Tokyo I'd have no issues(but would be getting beasted 7 ways from Tuesday). lol

And yeah, it's nothin but c.fwdxn, Sonic Boom, return to c.fwdxn, pisses me off. Which is funny, because when he actually wants to play the game he loses to me HARD.

I can occasionally hit c.fwd with mine, but the trade is in his favor. I haven't gotten any luck trying to trade with c.RH. Of course doing anything else results in a flash kick, trying to walk forward gets me c.fwd'ed, and dash punches don't get very far(random sonic boom when he has me just out of range of c.fwd, hits before I swing) unless I time them REAL well, which still results in a block and I'm stuck in a range where he pretty much beats everything I got for free w/c.fwd so I can't even start throw shenanigans. Even TAP loses to c.fwd. that move is such bullshit.

[GREEZY_b]

Did you read the thread? :confused: Graham answered this 2 posts above yours. To add on, you could try doing combos with cr.LP or cr.MP after you walk under them but cr.MK mixups are your best bet.

...yea, i actually did read the thread, well i skimmed over it:sweat: my bad. good lil mixups tho.

[Footsy Bebop]

Two Rog Questions

First, no one answered my previous question. When doing the two low jabs in to super, is it jab, jab, back forward back forward, jab AND fierce together or jab and then fierce?

Second, from what I understand Rog has a couple frames of vulnerability in the beginning of his flash kick maneuver, so if you were knocked down and had chun doing lightning legs on top of you before you got up you shouldn't be able to wake up flash kick reversal should you?

[Saotome Kaneda]

Two Rog Questions

First, no one answered my previous question. When doing the two low jabs in to super, is it jab, jab, back forward back forward, jab AND fierce together or jab and then fierce?

Second, from what I understand Rog has a couple frames of vulnerability in the beginning of his flash kick maneuver, so if you were knocked down and had chun doing lightning legs on top of you before you got up you shouldn't be able to wake up flash kick reversal should you?
It's jab~fierce. You're whiff cancelling the s.jab into the super.

And yes, you can use Headbutt as a reversal, just make sure he lunges far forward enough to hit her, IIRC Jab doesn't get her if she tries to do legs at the tip of its range.

[Shin Touyokouzan]

I actually just learned how to position my fingers on the stick to do TAP I normally have my thumb on lk my ring finger on mk and my pinky on hk leaving my middle and my index free to attack with punch buttons. it takes a little getting used to but thats what ive been doing and its working for me pretty well

I do have a question though. How does rog do a headbut to super. PLaying against afro legends he does that pretty often and i was wondering how its done. Thanks guys

[Shag]

I do have a question though. How does rog do a headbut to super. PLaying against afro legends he does that pretty often and i was wondering how its done. Thanks guys

You first start charging :db:. You can do the headbutt by going to :ub:. By doing this you don't lose the back charge needed for Balrog to do his super. When you land, you can do the super motion and the super should go out.

[geadom]

Can anyone help me w/ Balrog´s mirror match? What are some good tips?

[Shin Touyokouzan]

Yeah thats something I would like to know too. AS well as Rog vs Chun. She is such a bitch to fight against

[geadom]

To Graham: If i upload a few vids of my 'rog, would you check them out to give some tips? I'm also waiting for some tips in Rog's mirror match.

Also: What are 'rogs worst matchups, besides honda / sim?

[geadom]

Graham: I need to thank YOU and everyone that made this great thread. Yesterday i won a local ST torunament (in Santo Domingo) using all the techniques described here..

KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!

[jaminbenjamin]

I think Zangief is one of Boxer's worst matchups, if not the worst.

[Shin Touyokouzan]

I think Zangief is one of Boxer's worst matchups, if not the worst.

Yeah i have alot of problems with that match up too. Lariat ends up beating out dash lows at times and keeps rog from jumping in with hp/hk. I end up jumping in with MP most of the time against geif and it works. When geif jumps i end up mashing jab to keep him away too. But the match up hs very hard for me to win. Any suggestions??? And did graham like die or something? He hasnt posted in a good while =(

[Shin Touyokouzan]

I guess this thread is dead then <_<

[78_towncar_460]

What's the largest hitting combo you can do with the boxer?

One time I did a 5 hit combo, but I'm not very good. Jumping strong (immediately charge) two ducking jabs a standing jab then a weak dash punch.

What are just some good combos in general? Any dizzy combos?

[Aaron Brooks]

Off of about any jump in you can land, jab, jab, standing jab, fierce normal rush punch on moderate to big characters. (assuming you are fairly close) As far as I can tell you can only do one of the crouch jabs on smaller characters. You can also do something like standing mk into high rush, because i believe the high rush has less charge time. You can do crouch jab times 1 or 2, standing jab super, or just crouch jab times 2 into renda kara cancel super. You can probably renda kara the low rush for a combo to hit crouching characters.. but that seems hard. It seems like the only good set ups for balrog jump in combos are safe jumps and dizzies.

As far as ground combos, you can link c mk into c mp and cancel the mp into low rush.

Does that all sound right?

[NKI]

Biggest Boxer combo I've seen is 12 hits:
Against crouching Zangief, cross-up j.Fierce (or j.RH), cr.Jab x6, super

Practical combos:
cr.Forward, cr.Strong xx low rush
safe jump Jab, cr.Jab x2->st.Jab xx high rush
j.RH, st.Forward xx low kick rush (the one that knocks down)

Also, you can link the super after his cr.Forward.

To dizzy the opponent, Daigo uses meaty cr.Forward, far st.Fierce.

[Aaron Brooks]

Are there any knockdown combos that work on crouching characters besides combo into super? I was trying to do renda kara low rush.. but as far as i can tell that's impossible.

Biggest Boxer combo I've seen is 12 hits:
Against crouching Zangief, cross-up j.Fierce (or j.RH), cr.Jab x6, super

Practical combos:
cr.Forward, cr.Strong xx low rush
safe jump Jab, cr.Jab x2->st.Jab xx high rush
j.RH, st.Forward xx low kick rush (the one that knocks down)

Also, you can link the super after his cr.Forward.

To dizzy the opponent, Daigo uses meaty cr.Forward, far st.Fierce.

[jchensor]

I think Zangief is one of Boxer's worst matchups, if not the worst.

Actually, if Balrog knows how to fight Zangief, the fight becomes largely 50/50. Jab Low Rush with Punch beats the Lariats if you distance it properly. But Zangief can whiff stand jabs a lot which will hit the Low RUshes before they reach Zangief, discouraging you from doing the move. But Balrog can Stand Fierce Zangief from the same rance he wants to do the Low Rush, which will beat or trade with Gief's Stand Jab. And, of course, Zangief can Lariat the Fierce. So you can bait him into doing the Lariat and Low Rush him.

It's cyclical, but it makes the fight much more manageable to Balrog. Good Zangiefs WILL make this a very hard fight, but a good Balrog will make the fight much more honest.

- James
http://jchensor.blogspot.com

[jaminbenjamin]

Zangief can cripple boxer's options with crouching roundhouse, a much better tool than standing jabs. Cr roundhouse mixed in with lariats can really lock down and push Boxer back into the corner with very little skill.

[jchensor]

Good Balrog players will wait for Low Roundhouse, then react with a Low Rush Punch on whiff if you do it that much. Zangief may block in time, but there is little else he can do. Maybe try for a miracle SPD, but good luck there. You won't win many match ups going for things like that.

But you're right, it's a good weapon, but you cannot use it too much. Balrogs who learn the right distnace to Low Rush Punch make the fight hard. I don't think the fight is in Balrog's favor, but I don't think it's in Zangief's either. I feel like this match is almost 50/50.

- James
http://jchensor.blogspot.com

[Shin Touyokouzan]

Good Balrog players will wait for Low Roundhouse, then react with a Low Rush Punch on whiff if you do it that much. Zangief may block in time, but there is little else he can do. Maybe try for a miracle SPD, but good luck there. You won't win many match ups going for things like that.

But you're right, it's a good weapon, but you cannot use it too much. Balrogs who learn the right distnace to Low Rush Punch make the fight hard. I don't think the fight is in Balrog's favor, but I don't think it's in Zangief's either. I feel like this match is almost 50/50.

- James
http://jchensor.blogspot.com


I guess you would know more than i would lol. But I have a really hard time fighting this match up. Its really hard for me to stay on Geif with out getting grabbed or random lariet. It sucks =(

[jchensor]

I guess you would know more than i would lol. But I have a really hard time fighting this match up. Its really hard for me to stay on Geif with out getting grabbed or random lariet. It sucks =(

No, admittedly, it looks like the fight is totally in Gief's favor. In fact, I used to believe it too. I remember long ago saying that on agsf2 and Bob Painter, a great Gief player, telling me it wasn't true. I was upset by that 'cause I like Gief and always thought that match was mine.

But since then, I've fought a lot of good Balrogs who know the fight and it's harder. Zangief is still one of the best characters to FIGHT Balrog, since every other character mostly gets mopped up by him. I just don't think Gief has an overwhelming advatange anymore.

- James
http://jchensor.blogspot.com

[afro legends]

I agree with Chen. That match can be hard for Rog if he gets knocked down, that's why you have to be careful and choose your attacks wisely. Rog has some tools that he can work with. If Gief likes to use the cr. roundhouse a lot, Rog can just standing fierce on the whiff and hit him clean. For Gief's standing jabs, Rog can just st. fierce and trade in Rog's favor. For anti airs, Rog has the st. jabs, st. strong, st. fierce, cr. fierce, and high rush depending on distance and what Gief does. Like Chen said, Rog can low rush Gief's lariat at the right distance. If Rog gets knocked down, it can be trouble so you have to play this match very carefully. Using TAP a lot isn't good cuz Gief can see it and lariat on reaction. Don't let Gief bully and corner you, use the tactics above and fight him. If you are getting near your own corner and happen to knock Gief down, do a jump in combo that ends with a low rush to push him away.

afro

[Shin Touyokouzan]

I agree with Chen. That match can be hard for Rog if he gets knocked down, that's why you have to be careful and choose your attacks wisely. Rog has some tools that he can work with. If Gief likes to use the cr. roundhouse a lot, Rog can just standing fierce on the whiff and hit him clean. For Gief's standing jabs, Rog can just st. fierce and trade in Rog's favor. For anti airs, Rog has the st. jabs, st. strong, st. fierce, cr. fierce, and high rush depending on distance and what Gief does. Like Chen said, Rog can low rush Gief's lariat at the right distance. If Rog gets knocked down, it can be trouble so you have to play this match very carefully. Using TAP a lot isn't good cuz Gief can see it and lariat on reaction. Don't let Gief bully and corner you, use the tactics above and fight him. If you are getting near your own corner and happen to knock Gief down, do a jump in combo that ends with a low rush to push him away.

afro

Post more often scrub. lol

And thanks for the advice i will put it to use

[technique121]

does anybody know how to fight blanka i am trying to use tips from this forum posts to help my skill in Champ edition

[Graham]

I think Zangief is one of Boxer's worst matchups, if not the worst.

I used to think that, it still is somewhat valid but not nearly as bad after i learned the proper way to play the match watching daigo play my brother with his rog vs my brothers gief.

But the best strat vs gief is one my brother created which is stupidly simple, just keep pressing low strong.

[Graham]

Biggest Boxer combo I've seen is 12 hits:
Against crouching Zangief, cross-up j.Fierce (or j.RH), cr.Jab x6, super

Practical combos:
cr.Forward, cr.Strong xx low rush
safe jump Jab, cr.Jab x2->st.Jab xx high rush
j.RH, st.Forward xx low kick rush (the one that knocks down)

Also, you can link the super after his cr.Forward.

To dizzy the opponent, Daigo uses meaty cr.Forward, far st.Fierce.


ok my favorite combos are these for anyone looking for some bad ass rog combos that arent too hard to do.

Dizzy:
simple combo:
Jumpin roundhouse/fierce, low strong, low kick rush with short (knockdown)
highest damage combo:
jumpin roundhouse/fierce, 2 lob jab, standing jab, straight fierce rush punch

on wakeup:
low forward early, low strong, low jab dash punch

after grabbing them and walking behind:
low forward early, low strong, low jab dash punch

on wakeup for quick dizzy:
low forward early, standing fierce (on big chars)

on jumpin on certain chars during fireball (chun li for example)
refer to simple combo

on jumpin on sagat for example if he does low fireball:
jumping roundhouse, standing fierce (connects cause opponent is ducking)

simple super combo when they're dizzy or on wakeup:
jumpin forward or jab or strong (see it hit, cant use fierce or roundhouse or you wont be able to get the full amount of jabs), 2 low jabs, standing jab, super

[Aaron Brooks]

Did anybody mention that zangief can punish balrog super with 360/720? Something worth knowing about that match. Almost worth learning the balrog combo into super just for that reason.

[Saotome Kaneda]

GRAHAM


Give me tips on rushing down WW Guile w/ST Boxer plz >=O
This dude is the only thing keeping me from dominating Okinawa


WW Guile is so full of BS I swear to God

help me plz :sad:

[Graham]

help me plz :sad:

well its a losing battle, youll have to accept that. But ways to win are like this. You need to use alot of grabbing. Dont charge the TAP , just do rushdown with short low dash and grab, also do low forwards and low jab dashes along with standing fierces. Chances are youll lose but if you can grab enough youll win. thats all i can say is cheap cheap cheap.

[Axel Kelly]

whoa whoa whoa whoa....

Balrog actually has four dashes. He has two punch dashes, but he also
has two kick dashes. The second kick dash is done the same way the low
punch dash is done - from back to down/forward. The animation is very
similar, but it looks more like a low fierce than a dash, and balrog
comes rushing in while crouched. The advantage of this dash is that by
charging low back to foward/down, you can conserve charge for the BH.
I also think (but I'm not sure) that it recovers faster than the high
dash.taken from:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.sf2/tree/browse_frm/thread/5f979a1f774fa885/e6c88151206c16ff?rnum=1&q=julien+balrog&_done=%2Fgroup%2Falt.games.sf2%2Fbrowse_frm%2Fthre ad%2F5f979a1f774fa885%2F4c989fe12b3f1471%3Flnk%3Dg st%26q%3Djulien+balrog%26rnum%3D9%26#doc_4c989fe12 b3f1471

That's not true, is it?

[Saotome Kaneda]

well its a losing battle, youll have to accept that. But ways to win are like this. You need to use alot of grabbing. Dont charge the TAP , just do rushdown with short low dash and grab, also do low forwards and low jab dashes along with standing fierces. Chances are youll lose but if you can grab enough youll win. thats all i can say is cheap cheap cheap.
That's what I figured, but he's been able to counterthrow the fuck out of me. Thanks bro. =D


What's funny is, he recently went up to mainland to take a job up in Nagoya for 6 months, so this is the beginning of my 6 month rule over Okinawa. lol Headbutt throw crossup mixups FTW.

[dogberry]

Graham:

I was wondering if you could break down the Balrog/Dhalsim match.

What is the best time to release the TAP? Like when you see that sim is hesitating about whether to throw a yoga fire or when you need to close the distance should sim happen to be in the air?

It seems to me that the game plan is to look for hesitant moments/missed moves from sim and then close in/trade hits. Is that it or is there something else?

[geadom]

Good question. I just finished 3rd in a tournament, for losing to 'sim..

PLEASE Graham, can you break this fight?

[Renegade]

Ok... this isn't the "ASK GRAHAM" Balrog thread. I'm sure he's not going to do that kinda stuff, so think up strategies and post them yourselves.

As far as Sim vs Rog... I would use the TAP whenever you're pretty certain that there won't be a fireball coming. I.e. headbutt through a fireball, release TAP. Jump Straight up over fireball, TAP. Etc. You're trying to hit/trade w/ his pokes. So, release TAP when you think he's going to poke!

Ok. I got beat by a pure wall dive vega in a tourney the other day. And I was super pissed. So I'm going to share some thoughts on it.

1. Vega Can't try to claw in front of you, as then your buffalo headbutt will hit him clean. So 99% it's going to be throw/claw behind
2. Beware of Reversal Flipkick. The only guarunteed knockdowns he has to set up the walldive shenanigans are slide, flipkick, and izuna drop. Throw is too fast and can be teched.
3. If you are standing, use HK rush when you see him go to the wall. You will either tag him, or if you were too late, you're safely out of the way.
4. Make sure you get enough charge time when you do get knocked down for headbutt. Try multi release to ensure you'll get one.
5.If you have a lead, the corner is your friend.

Anyone else want to add thoughts?

[Graham]

Ok... this isn't the "ASK GRAHAM" Balrog thread. I'm sure he's not going to do that kinda stuff, so think up strategies and post them yourselves.

As far as Sim vs Rog... I would use the TAP whenever you're pretty certain that there won't be a fireball coming. I.e. headbutt through a fireball, release TAP. Jump Straight up over fireball, TAP. Etc. You're trying to hit/trade w/ his pokes. So, release TAP when you think he's going to poke!

Ok. I got beat by a pure wall dive vega in a tourney the other day. And I was super pissed. So I'm going to share some thoughts on it.

1. Vega Can't try to claw in front of you, as then your buffalo headbutt will hit him clean. So 99% it's going to be throw/claw behind
2. Beware of Reversal Flipkick. The only guarunteed knockdowns he has to set up the walldive shenanigans are slide, flipkick, and izuna drop. Throw is too fast and can be teched.
3. If you are standing, use HK rush when you see him go to the wall. You will either tag him, or if you were too late, you're safely out of the way.
4. Make sure you get enough charge time when you do get knocked down for headbutt. Try multi release to ensure you'll get one.
5.If you have a lead, the corner is your friend.

Anyone else want to add thoughts?

watch the vid on youtube of me vs my brother at evo west, youll see alot of well timed Tap's if you need a visual understanding of when i use em

keep in mind rogs lifebar is also there to take a beating as he dishes it out, trading hits is fine on any attack, youll alwys hit harder on nearly any opponent.

[geadom]

LOL, good point, Renegade. Against Claw, headbutt fucks his dives, and if you do the HP one, usually, you can escape safely.

Another choice when you dont have charge is cr.HP. Most of the time beats the dive clean.

WHOEVER (even Graham or Renegade) that can give me this answer, plz help me:

When sim does a Yoga fire, what is the best course of action? Headbutt is kicked on reaction..

If i jump that fire, what moves trades with st.mk/Hk? And what trades with st.Mp/cr.(st?)Hp?

Lots of thanks again. :D


P.S: It might not seem like that, but i know a little stuff with Rog too.. So anyone can ask me things too :P

[Graham]

LOL, good point, Renegade. Against Claw, headbutt fucks his dives, and if you do the HP one, usually, you can escape safely.

Another choice when you dont have charge is cr.HP. Most of the time beats the dive clean.

WHOEVER (even Graham or Renegade) that can give me this answer, plz help me:

When sim does a Yoga fire, what is the best course of action? Headbutt is kicked on reaction..

If i jump that fire, what moves trades with st.mk/Hk? And what trades with st.Mp/cr.(st?)Hp?

Lots of thanks again. :D


P.S: It might not seem like that, but i know a little stuff with Rog too.. So anyone can ask me things too :P

well there are multiple options when you see a yoga fire, i do either a jab straight running punch (trade) if its a slow fireball, a tap trade, a standing fierce trade, a jump straight up if far away and guided fierce punch to move down and avoid, or a jump toward at last second and fierce/roundhouse or i walk toward them if its slow and block at last minute to gain a bit of ground. There are many options you just need to be willing to block sometimes. sometimes if the player is really close i do a fierce headbutt through it, but once you get the super youll shut down his fireball game fast if he isnt full screen.

but honestly most of it is just pure practice, you need to play matches alot to get the feel of what to do, ill say this alot of the times i build a strategy on the spot to accomodate some players.

[technique121]

um i was wondering what are some gameplay variations for ssf2 balrog cause i normally play with hyper fighting balrog and when i switched the turn punch inviceblity frame dosen't work and i can't figure out how make the buffalo rush work

i think i need a new gameplay style or some type of renovation to it cause it is not working to well with st


i am so use to playing hyper fighting turbo balrog

[Renegade]

Man, Graham, looking at the matches between you and your brother.. I can safely say i have never played a good Sim. Seriously, no one plays Sim on EC that I know of.

The matches really illuminate the fact that you can't use headbutt at all to get through fireballs.

Anyway... a couple of things I was thinking about.

When I combo into super... I get cr. jab, cr. jab, st. jabxx super, and i'm basically doing the jab at the same time as the super. But...

Is that right? is it possible for the stand jab to not even come out and the super to still combo? Is that the preferred way of doing it?

Anyone else get that?

Also, I'm thinking that comboing the super isn't nearly as important as using it as a tool to get in on fireballers. Is there any time outside of a dizzy that anyone goes for combo into super?

Also, I read somewhere that Honda and Blanka stand up automatically after being hit w/ 2 moves. So, I'm guessing that makes crouch jabX2, stand jab xx fierce rush or super more feasible on them.

[Triplejjj]

In response to your question about the super, that is correct you never see the standing jab that is cancelled, it is the same principal as comboing into super with Ken's cr shorts. With regards to when you would try going for that combo with Rog, I would say it can't hurt to try to hit confirm it after a safe jumped short. At least that the impression I get from watching vids of top boxer players.

[Graham]

Man, Graham, looking at the matches between you and your brother.. I can safely say i have never played a good Sim. Seriously, no one plays Sim on EC that I know of.

The matches really illuminate the fact that you can't use headbutt at all to get through fireballs.

Anyway... a couple of things I was thinking about.

When I combo into super... I get cr. jab, cr. jab, st. jabxx super, and i'm basically doing the jab at the same time as the super. But...

Is that right? is it possible for the stand jab to not even come out and the super to still combo? Is that the preferred way of doing it?

Anyone else get that?

Also, I'm thinking that comboing the super isn't nearly as important as using it as a tool to get in on fireballers. Is there any time outside of a dizzy that anyone goes for combo into super?

Also, I read somewhere that Honda and Blanka stand up automatically after being hit w/ 2 moves. So, I'm guessing that makes crouch jabX2, stand jab xx fierce rush or super more feasible on them.

you're right about the super being more important for going through fireballs than to be used in combos. There is going to be the rare situation where you're really down and a super combo on a dizzy foe would give you the win.

[polarity]

whoa whoa whoa whoa....

taken from:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.sf2/tree/browse_frm/thread/5f979a1f774fa885/e6c88151206c16ff?rnum=1&q=julien+balrog&_done=%2Fgroup%2Falt.games.sf2%2Fbrowse_frm%2Fthre ad%2F5f979a1f774fa885%2F4c989fe12b3f1471%3Flnk%3Dg st%26q%3Djulien+balrog%26rnum%3D9%26#doc_4c989fe12 b3f1471

That's not true, is it?

Yep. It also knocks down, iirc.

[technique121]

anyone find guile thread i mean i saw a link but it sending me to this balrog thread

(hope i don't get TAP by all yall balrog fans for asking this question)

[NKI]

You obviously didn't take 2 seconds to look for the Guile thread yourself, and your post has no place here in the Balrog thread. You've been warned about stuff like this before, and nothing's changed, so you have now been banned.

[jaminbenjamin]

Thanks for banning that freak...

[Mizuki]

You obviously didn't take 2 seconds to look for the Guile thread yourself, and your post has no place here in the Balrog thread. You've been warned about stuff like this before, and nothing's changed, so you have now been banned.

NKI rocks in ST, and banning unwanted idiots!

[ViNnYViN]

how do you do headbutt into super? i saw daigo do it once. do you just charge and release it diagnolly so you get the buffer for holding back and and forward?

[NKI]

Charge D/B, U/B+punch, then do F, B, F+punch as you land.

[zass]

I was playing around on the PS2 CCC2 training mode, practicing the kick dash -> super, and I found something strange.

When I did the down kick dash, I could interrupt into super every time.

When I did the regular kick dash, I couldn't interrupt the super.

So specifically, I found that

Charge, then down/forward + short, then back, then forward + punch resulted into a dash, then a super.

but:

Charge, then forward + short, then back, then forward + punch resulted into a dash, but no super.

This is annoying because the down/forward + kick dash knocks people down, which means you can't combo the super if the dash hits.

Is my observation correct or am I just messing it up?

Julien

[jchensor]

I'm sure you can do the non-knockdown one. I've seen it in Combo Videos before, someone doing the regular Kick Dash version so it hits late enough to Combo into the Super. It would be tough to distance properly and you would need really good execution to do it, but I'm pretty sure I've seen it before.

(Good to see you back, Julien. ^_^)

- James
http://jchensor.blogspot.com

[Grits'N'Gravy]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=lqYHVFIDSbc

Are you talking about the dash upper > Super like in the last round here? Hopefully if this is the tactic, Phil can come in and talk about how it's done... I'm interested to know too.

Also, I sent you a PM about playing in Seattle when I come out there... hopefully it can happen. =)

BTW: Are you going to be adding to the T Hawk threads and wikis? My boy Craig really wants to get all the information possible besides the stuff on agsf2.

[zass]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=lqYHVFIDSbc

Are you talking about the dash upper > Super like in the last round here? Hopefully if this is the tactic, Phil can come in and talk about how it's done... I'm interested to know too.

Yeah, it's what happens at 6:21 in the video. That's exactly what I'm talking about. The question is can you do the non knockdown kick dash (or any other dash for that matter), and can you still do it if the dash connects (rather than whiffs as in the video).

James, thanks for the reply! I'll definitely try it out. It's good to be back! The SF bug has bitten me again :)

[jchensor]

OMG... I just noticed in your sig:

SF2 Code v1.0: t+ c+ T+ r+(-) f g++ m+ s+ v+ M+(-) n+:++ o+
http://web.archive.org/web/19970219205915/hannibal.mit.edu/things/sf2/sf2code.txt

Classic!!!

- James
http://jchensor.blogspot.com

[NKI]

Hey Julien, great to see you back on the scene.
:smile:

You can combo the super after hitting with the straight kick rush, so obviously you can also do the super after whiffing the straight kick rush.

It's a lot easier to whiff with the down/towards kick rush because it actually has less frames than the straight kick rush. (The short version of the straight kick rush has 25 frames, while the down/towards version only has 21.) You can take a look at all the frame data for ST here:
http://nki.combovideos.com/ST

[zass]

Hey Julien, great to see you back on the scene.
:smile:

You can combo the super after hitting with the straight kick rush, so obviously you can also do the super after whiffing the straight kick rush.

It's a lot easier to whiff with the down/towards kick rush because it actually has less frames than the straight kick rush. (The short version of the straight kick rush has 25 frames, while the down/towards version only has 21.) You can take a look at all the frame data for ST here:
http://nki.combovideos.com/

Hey NKI!

I'm told you're the one to thank for the American ST revival. So.. thanks! Up until a few weeks ago, I honestly didn't think I'd ever get to play my favorite game again. And now, I just played in an ST tourney last weekend, and I'm considering getting a home arcade setup like one of these :

http://www.killercabs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6264

(OT: If anyone can point me to tips on how to get one of these japanese style sit down cabinets, I'd love to hear them! I want my ST setup to be one of those!)

So.. thanks again NKI!

Anyways, thanks for the link on frame data. I remember those old T. Akiba forums, I used to post there :). I'd forgotten about it. It's cool to have the frame data confirm what I've always "felt", which is that the dashing ground upper is "faster" for whiffing than the dashing upper!

So anyways, back to my question. how do you combo the dashing upper into a super? I've just never been able to do it. Is there some trick to it? I can do the whiffed dashing ground upper into super, but I can't seem to do the dashing upper (whiffed or not) into super. I'd really like to know how to combo it so I can do combos like jump fierce, low jab, stand jab, dash upper, super.

Julien

[NKI]

Well, I do my best to try to provide ST info, but no way can I take responsibility for single-handedly reviving ST. There were a lot of factors that came into play, like Sirlin releasing CCC2, the Evo staff securing HUGE cash prizes and allowing ST to remain a tourney game, etc.

Anyway, there really isn't a trick to kick rush into super...it's just timing. Though to me it does seem easier against certain characters (like against Gief). I definitely wouldn't try to do it in a real match though...it's so flash and hard and unnecessary. Just raw super would probably do the trick anyway...

Oh, and I just noticed I didn't give you the full link for the translated ST data. Should have been: http://nki.combovideos.com/ST

[ThisGuileKillYa]

If I'm charging TAP and I get someone in a throw, am I better off releasing it so I can walk through into cMK cMP etc? Or is there anything fun to do with TAP off a throw?

Also, if I can get someone with crouch jabs but they're too small or too crouching to go into a standing jab, is there any other reliable way to combo into something? I'm thinking link to a crouch Strong, but is that the best option when landing the rapid crouch jabs?

[Violent By Design]

If I'm charging TAP and I get someone in a throw, am I better off releasing it so I can walk through into cMK cMP etc? Or is there anything fun to do with TAP off a throw? I'm no pro but I never release tap during a throw. Why not just charge it while walking under and doing C.MP Also I never charge Tap with the punches, I only charge it with the kicks. But thats just me.

Also, if I can get someone with crouch jabs but they're too small or too crouching to go into a standing jab, is there any other reliable way to combo into something? I'm thinking link to a crouch Strong, but is that the best option when landing the rapid crouch jabs?

I'm not sure what your trying to say here, it's prob cuz I have a head ache :-p

[ThisGuileKillYa]

yeah I use the kicks too. Thats why I'm asking if I should release during the throw so I can use my forward kick after the walk through, or if its worth it to keep them held down and use strong instead.

As for the crouch jabs thing, I'm refering to the combo cJP cJP sJP xx whatever. Sometimes when you do the standing jab, they are crouching so it doesnt hit. In that case I'm wondering if I have an alternative off of landed rapid cJabs other than linking to cStrong

[BKB]

If I'm charging TAP and I get someone in a throw, am I better off releasing it so I can walk through into cMK cMP etc? Or is there anything fun to do with TAP off a throw?

I know in previous games you could link stuff like s.fierce/dash after a meaty TAP.. maybe go for meaty TAP then combo/throw? I dunno if you can link after TAP tho in ST, i don't play Rog. :sad:

Also, if I can get someone with crouch jabs but they're too small or too crouching to go into a standing jab, is there any other reliable way to combo into something? I'm thinking link to a crouch Strong, but is that the best option when landing the rapid crouch jabs?

Super? :sweat:

Kara into low rush? Would take some fancy fingerwork, and I dunno if it even works lol.

So, yeah.. I'm not much help at all it seems. :lol:

[Violent By Design]

yeah I use the kicks too. Thats why I'm asking if I should release during the throw so I can use my forward kick after the walk through, or if its worth it to keep them held down and use strong instead.

I usually just keep the tap. When I grab I go for mind games because I'll first tick throw, then from there mix up. I'm not even sure if the Dashing Uppercut even hits? If it does I guess it wouldn't hurt to mix it up. I play against my friend who uses Sim majority of the time so I'm use to charging Tap for a long time.

As for the crouch jabs thing, I'm refering to the combo cJP cJP sJP xx whatever. Sometimes when you do the standing jab, they are crouching so it doesnt hit. In that case I'm wondering if I have an alternative off of landed rapid cJabs other than linking to cStrong I can't think of another way, but i'm not sure.

[NKI]

I'm wondering if I have an alternative off of landed rapid cJabs other than linking to cStrongIf you hit a ducking opponent with cr.Jabs, the only thing that I know of that you can combo is a chain canceled super.

[Louie]

Can anyone help me w/ Balrog´s mirror match? What are some good tips?

quite hard to just describe like that, easier if you play it and you'll se for yourself what works and not etc, here is a tip or two i can give you;

on opponent's rog's wake up, you know about the early/meaty jumpin right? (if he trys to revearse it, you'll end up blocking that attack, iow you're safe, but if you hit him, you hit him ^^) do that with j.MP nothing else.. since it comes like a hook from above, imo thats the best for headbut wakeups. so if you hit him, you combo him, if he revease and you block, you punish. if you got a super and you hit him, just combo it into a cr.lp x2 -> super.

in this matchup you'll have to try to throw rog as much as possible (headbuts) the best here imo should be after you headbut him you jump after with a j.LP then either throw directly after or combo it in to a cr.LP THEN throw, and do some mixups bla bla taking it to a certain lvl of guessing game for him. mmh yea, thats it.. and oh! rog vs. rog SUCKS, i hate that matchup.

Also: What are 'rogs worst matchups, besides honda / sim?

chun-li!

[zass]

I wouldn't call Honda his worst matchup. I think Rog has an advantage.

[HP87]

What is the proper way to mash when you catch your opponent with boxer's multi hit headbutt throw? I tend to overmash such that a normal move will come out right after the opponent jumps away when the throw ends, making it impossible to meaty into another throw.

[Louie]

-__-

[Eduardo24]

How does T. Hawk do against the boxer?

[Don Calzone]

Any sufficient differences between j. fierce and j. rh?

[Phobos]

Balrog vs Blanka. What moves counter Blanka?

[Nick T.]

Balrog vs Blanka. What moves counter Blanka?

Low strong for slides, maybe low forward, not too sure.

You can rapid jab the ball, or just block and charge punch it.
I like to use lvl 1 TAP's to cover ground, and when I hit him out of the air, I like jab low rush punch.

Mainly in this match you just want to counter everything as much as possible to keep Blanka wary about getting in and using his speed. Make sure you keep him on his toes. Also try to keep him in one area, and stay on him.

[incognegro]

Ok I have read through this whole thread and I have not seen my question answered. How do you do the multiple charge punches with rog. I was watching a couple of match vids and also I was playing the computer and I seen them both do back to back charge moves with rog. I want to know how they are doing it.

[Nick T.]

Ok I have read through this whole thread and I have not seen my question answered. How do you do the multiple charge punches with rog. I was watching a couple of match vids and also I was playing the computer and I seen them both do back to back charge moves with rog. I want to know how they are doing it.

#1 . the cpu is cheap like that

#2. It depends on what you want to do.
::Special xx Special::

a) Charge d/b, up + back + p/k, land, toward + p/k (headbutt xx rush punch)

b) Charge d/b, d/f + p, up + p (low rush punch xx headbutt)

::Special xx Super::

a) Charge back, toward + k, back, toward + p (rush kick punch xx super)

b) Charge d/b, up + p, toward, back, toward + p (headbutt xx super)

c) Charge d/b, toward + down + p, back, toward + p (low rush punch xx super)

[Khiempossible]

you can also charge buffer,

charge b, f, b+P gives you extra time to buffer the motion. If you suck you can always just use TAP to fill empty spaces.

[Roundhousepunch]

Also, I read somewhere that Honda and Blanka stand up automatically after being hit w/ 2 moves. So, I'm guessing that makes crouch jabX2, stand jab xx fierce rush or super more feasible on them.

Thanx, very usefull information :tup: And yes, you can do 2xcr.jab,st.jabxxdashpunch on a crouching honda. But, for some reason that won't work on blanka, the st.jab will whiff. Note that you cant combo cr.jab into st.jab on a standing blanka aswell. The reason seems to be his akward small hitbox (even when standing) while being hit. Don't know if this was mentioned before but you can also combo cr.jab in st.jab on crouching Gief an Balrog.

Other thing I found out about his cr.forward,cr.strong link combo:
Won't work on
st.chun(but on crouching)
st.Deejay(but on crouching)
st.Vega(but on crouching)
st.Balrog himself(but on crouching)
cr.Honda(but on standing)
cr.Blanka(but on standing)
Only explanation I can think of is that the animation of those characters, while being hit, moves their hitbox back so that the cr.strong won't hit on the first frame, but on a later hitframe, after the opponent has recovered from the cr.forward.


So anyways, back to my question. how do you combo the dashing upper into a super? I've just never been able to do it. Is there some trick to it? I can do the whiffed dashing ground upper into super, but I can't seem to do the dashing upper (whiffed or not) into super. I'd really like to know how to combo it so I can do combos like jump fierce, low jab, stand jab, dash upper, super.


The trick to do dashing upper into super is to do it really slow. You really have to force yourself to do it way slower than you are used to do those super motions. Once you have the timing, it's quite easy. A bit hard not to rush the motion in a tight match though.
But I also have no idead how to combo dashing upper into super.

Hm, since his his ground dashpunch recovers faster then the normal one, I suppose you should always use this one for throw attempts?

I'm also a bit confused what Sirlin said in his vid about Balrog's overhead, jp.forward. It just won't hit a crouching character. I can do jp. towards short, but I think this overhead is pretty useless, because it puts me in such a bad spot after jumping over the enemy.

[zass]

Ok I have read through this whole thread and I have not seen my question answered. How do you do the multiple charge punches with rog. I was watching a couple of match vids and also I was playing the computer and I seen them both do back to back charge moves with rog. I want to know how they are doing it.

I'd like to know the answer to this too. I saw X-Mania7 DVD and there's a CE rog that does jump something, some punch, then dash upper x 2 for a 4 hit combo. How is that done?

[zass]

I'll check when I get home, but what are some good boxer players to look up on youtube?

Kurahashi's boxer: http://youtube.com/watch?v=rZQGbWN4XY4

This is the guy I posted about on a.g.sf2 years ago as the "king of ST". Watching the above video, I can see how even today I have learned so much from his style. Here are two posts I wrote about Kurahashi's Boxer when I lived in Japan... at the time I didn't even know his name, I just called him "the best guile in Japan"

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.sf2/browse_thread/thread/ba7ef8e4aea5cf8a/1e3d6326fb5248a1?lnk=gst&q=&rnum=39&fwc=1
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.sf2/browse_thread/thread/5f979a1f774fa885/115a3b99c3d50a9e?lnk=gst&q=beasley+%22time+out%22&rnum=1#

The other Boxer I would recommend watching is Tamashima. He's generally seen as the best Boxer in the Kanto area (Tokyo)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=qgFrtPp88ZI (tamashima vs mtsun)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=-H93sTqacno&mode=related&search= (tamashima vs daigo)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=F98p0yNnb1I&mode=related&search= (tamashima vs muteki)

Tamashima, or Tama-chan as he is known, is a super nice guy. He was really helpful and chatty, and helped me improve my Boxer a lot! But I think my personal style is still mostly influenced by Kurahashi at its core, because he made such an impression when I first saw his boxer!

Julien

[Louie]

Tsuji is better than Tamashima (Tsuji red boxer)

and for the blanka question;

cr.hk>electricity (when right distance)
st.lp>ball
cr.mk>ball
cr.mp>ball
cr.mk>slide

there are some i can think of atm.

[7 5 0]

Damn, I'm already addicted to using the boxer now. O.Sagat and Deejay are my favorites though.
The multiple charge punches (if you mean TAP) is done by holding all six buttons while releasing a set of three from the top, the TAP is executed, then release the other set of three from the bottom for another TAP. Repeat etc.

[zass]

ok, after much practicing, I can get boxer's dash -> super at point blank range. In other words, ken is in the corner, I'm right next to him, and I do dash upper xx Super.

Except it won't combo. What happens is I end up interrupting into the super BEFORE the dash hits. I can't get it to combo AFTER the dash hits. So you can hear and see him start the dash, but then it turns into a super before the dash had a chance to hit. has anyone been able to do this?

[Shin-Chan]

boxer vs Dee Jay..a.. what I doo? -__-

[SNKZato1]

Just been playing 'Rog pretty aggressively lately. I'm loving him, very fun character to play as. Coming from lots of Guile play he's a nice breath of fresh air. I haven't read the entire thread, but I'm curious as to what the benefit of the 3p and 3k moves are.

[Graham]

Just been playing 'Rog pretty aggressively lately. I'm loving him, very fun character to play as. Coming from lots of Guile play he's a nice breath of fresh air. I haven't read the entire thread, but I'm curious as to what the benefit of the 3p and 3k moves are.

attacks that increase in strength and speed over time making them hard to predict, they also have great hit properties able to hit nicely like his old rush punches from super did. When activated they give alot of super meter. Lastly they can be used without being 'charged' like a rush punch or headbutt.

[ThisGuileKillYa]

Someone already asked this but was never answered. I'm curious too: is there any difference at all between jump fierce and jump roundhouse? (angled jump of course)

Also, is there any use at all for standing roundhouse? I can't think of a good one.

[Graham]

Someone already asked this but was never answered. I'm curious too: is there any difference at all between jump fierce and jump roundhouse? (angled jump of course)

Also, is there any use at all for standing roundhouse? I can't think of a good one.

The jump attacks are the same. The standing roundhouse is good for showing off, like i was playing my brother in practice, his vega claw got knocked off. I waited duckign and he walked up to grab it and i put that fat elbow in his mouth to finish him. Its rather amusing to get hit by that move.

[Demon Dash]

The jump attacks are the same. The standing roundhouse is good for showing off, like i was playing my brother in practice, his vega claw got knocked off. I waited duckign and he walked up to grab it and i put that fat elbow in his mouth to finish him. Its rather amusing to get hit by that move.
What about crouching jab and crouching short? They seem very similar also...

[Graham]

What about crouching jab and crouching short? They seem very similar also...

crouching jab for balrog is very fast and has the repeating property, low short doesnt, but it has a differnet hit box, i really dont use low short much, only low jab for cheating and combos.

[Renegade]

Protip.

Normally, Balrog Can't do much about Gief's lariats... it's either fist sweep or low rush, and those can be hit, and difficult to time against kick lariats.

Normally, Balrog's super gets stuffed clean everytime by gief's lariat...

However, if you do the KICK super (starts with the uppercut), it'll hit gief every time out of lariat, b/c it hits him in the head where he's vulnerable.

Good way to punish in a fight where balrog doesn't really have an upper hand.

[scaryice]

nvm.

[yates]

^ ^ ^

Watch Makki in that match.

[fatboy]

^ ^ ^

Watch Makki in that match.

What match?

[Unreallystic]

[scrub]So I've been playing as Rog for a bit lately, was never good with him yadda yadda. I've finallygotten to a "non-tourny competitive" level with him, but I'm struggling to truly insert the TAP into my gameplay. It seems I either am too focused on keeping my hands in the TAP setup *I was told hold three punches, but this is HF I've been playing*, or I'm never charged for it. I read about charging with kicks in ST, is there any distinct advantage over charging 3P?
- :bluu:

[Corner-Trap]

[scrub]So I've been playing as Rog for a bit lately, was never good with him yadda yadda. I've finallygotten to a "non-tourny competitive" level with him, but I'm struggling to truly insert the TAP into my gameplay. It seems I either am too focused on keeping my hands in the TAP setup *I was told hold three punches, but this is HF I've been playing*, or I'm never charged for it. I read about charging with kicks in ST, is there any distinct advantage over charging 3P?
- :bluu:

ALWAYS charge with kicks, because not having your punches available limits a lot of your options. You can't do low rushes, you can't do his headbutt, you can't do his throw, and his punch button normals are just overall better. So always charge with kicks instead of punches.

[Unreallystic]

So I was fooling around with HF last night *I know this is ST but bare with me*, and I noticed that 3P and 3K were actually different moves - like the animations hit boxes etc were the same, but you could actually charge both. So I was curious if there was anything that could really be done with that? I didn't have the laptop setup so I wasn't on XBL to try and smash people with it, but simply trying to keep pressure on with multi-TAPs, I was able to keep the count at '2' by alternating which ones I held down. Anyone ever experiment with that?
- :bluu:

[Shag]

You could sorta pull it off in HF because the TAP has invincibility frames in that version. Ex: hold KKK for max TAP and alternate dash punch and PPP. The dash punch will hit ducking characters. The PPP can be used to go through projectiles and the KKK to hit whiffed attacks.

This trick won't really work in ST because you will not have access to buffalo which is needed to counter attacks and projectiles.

Very seldomly will I do a KKK/PPP followup, an experienced opponent will hit you out of the second TAP if they see it coming.

[Unreallystic]

Hmm well coming from HF are the only differences with rog the headbutt and the low sweeping punch? I know some attacks were changed slightly, like his crouching attacks looking like they hit low now. I guess I'm trying to figure out how to better my rog while playing HF so that when ST comes out...I don't suck even more than I do now because I'm so far off course.
- :bluu:

[Graham]

Hmm well coming from HF are the only differences with rog the headbutt and the low sweeping punch? I know some attacks were changed slightly, like his crouching attacks looking like they hit low now. I guess I'm trying to figure out how to better my rog while playing HF so that when ST comes out...I don't suck even more than I do now because I'm so far off course.
- :bluu:

Rog is completely different, all his hit boxes and graphics were redrawn. He has no invincibility with turnaround punch, his low attacks hit low now generally have different speeds as well, he has a super. Straight punches dont hit crouching opponents, i could go on and on, two completely different characters.

[Nori]

Rog is completely different, all his hit boxes and graphics were redrawn. He has no invincibility with turnaround punch, his low attacks hit low now generally have different speeds as well, he has a super. Straight punches dont hit crouching opponents, i could go on and on, two completely different characters.I was going ask something similar, I'm looking for mostly Turbo Balrog strats (somebody at my job bought an actual Street Fighter 2 Turbo machine). I know he's way different than ST, I seem to have problems with Guile mostly. Ken/Ryu don't pose TOO many problems, Guile and anybody with a good down MK seem to stop what I'm doing sometimes.

[Graham]

rogs low mid kick hits low mid kicks, try it out, vs fireball chars you can jump in and pop em easily as well as turnaround through fireballs
use standing fierces into straight jab rush punches as a strat vs most chars
low roundhouse and your jump and fierce or roundhouse overheads are important as well in close game.
Pretty simple char just learn his gimmicks

[Violent By Design]

Protip.

Normally, Balrog Can't do much about Gief's lariats... it's either fist sweep or low rush, and those can be hit, and difficult to time against kick lariats.

Normally, Balrog's super gets stuffed clean everytime by gief's lariat...

However, if you do the KICK super (starts with the uppercut), it'll hit gief every time out of lariat, b/c it hits him in the head where he's vulnerable.

Good way to punish in a fight where balrog doesn't really have an upper hand.

thanks for the tip. My friend whores the shit out of the lariat.

[Louie]

thought about rogs matchups lately. i would like to discuss some random bs (not only matchups, but rog in generall, thread seems abit dead atm). anyway matchups are ofc factwise based stuff, but its also a personall point of view. if i showed ya'll my matchup list from hardest to easiest ~ your list may not look identicall to mine. rog do have a hard time to these fast walking airborne chars like chun, vega and bison imo, god damn they are a pain in the ass imo. anyway here's my list, i think rog's worse matchup is chun-li, but im gonna put both vega/bison before her, they just takes rog of his game imo.

1)m.bison
2)vega
3)chun-li

to lazy to think of the rest, but imo sim, guile and rog mirror could be a pain sometimes.

[Kuprin]

As a Vega player I'll suggest some stuff that works on me.

Until he knocks you down, a lot of claws don't get terribly mobile, because if they have a charge when you go down, instant walldive shenanigans. Instant overhead j.MK combos work well on claw for that reason, and it's easy for you to get in, just watch out for his flashkick. Your best mixup against claw is instant overhead combo/throw, but you can throw in whatever off of a low if you think it's going to hit him.

Claw has piles upon piles of free runaway against you. His punch walldive (red pin?) can fly right over your head with the jab version, screwing up your charge. If you can keep the charge, knock him out of the air as he recovers with a dash uppercut, or a super if you have one.

TAP is mostly useless in this matchup; you need your MK a lot more.

[Airthrow]

A properly played Rog should almost always beat Claw, right? His normals beat all of claws, and he can just charge headbuts to either hit or run away from walldives. It's a slow bland match, but it's pretty simple, but definitely played differently than most of them.

Can anyone help me out against Guile? If I get him into the corner I have a chance to win, but from full/mid I get owned, and even jab headbutting over booms leaves me vulnerable to backfist hell.

Also, how do you use jumping neutral fierce to get over fireballs, can anyone explain?

[wakeupsweep]

jump up, press fierce, forward on joystick.

[Airthrow]

jump up, press fierce, forward on joystick.

Can't I get backfisted just as easily as headbutting through booms with it?

[wakeupsweep]

It travels a much shorter distance than the headbutt and I'm pretty sure it recovers more quickly, if you're far away guile can't hit you, if you headbutt guile can walk up and backfist from about 3/4 of the screen.
It pretty much acts as jump straight up, but it inches you forward a little so you can avoid fireballs with ease.
I don't know what properties jump up fierce has, but if it had good priority it could be used to beat a backfist?

[Shag]

You can control your straight jump as soon as you hit fierce.

If you just want to clear a projectile:

1. You can jump early, hit fierce and edge forward to hop over it

2. You can jump normally over it and then hit fierce and guide your way down.

[misterpoon]

Sorry guys, i may be kinda late in asking bout this but what the hey. Boxer kicks ass. More power to the boxer players out there! That means Graham, Tsuji, Daigo, Tamashima, Afrolegends, and more. If it were not for your vids i would not have taken an interest in Boxer. BTW Super turbo is practically dead here in the Philippines. Thank god for kaillera.

My two main questions center on these two juggles:

1. j.MK/HK cr.LP cr.LP st.LP dash punch or super
2. cr.MK cr.MP dash punch


1a. I have seen this juggle performed by daigo and tsuji. For the easier part, i am pertaining to landing the "j.MK/HK cr.LP cr.LP st.LP" 4 hit juggle part. It seems easier to get this on characters like sagat. I have also landed this on CE guile. Ive tried it on Ken but to no avail (and the jap players seem to land it consistently on the shotos). So is this characters specific or is is strictly timing?

1b. Now i am going to be asking about the cancel thingy into the super. Ive seen this in past posts.

Q: When doing the two low jabs in to super, is it jab, jab, back forward back forward, jab AND fierce together or jab and then fierce?
A: It's jab~fierce. You're whiff cancelling the s.jab into the super.

How do you button press the whole j.MK cr.LP cr.LP st.LP -> super (with the whole "j.MK cr.LP cr.LP st.LP"-part hitting)?

I am guessing that the complete input would be: j.MKcr.LP cr.LP st.LP 4646 st.LP~HP.

2. I know that this is basically a meaty cr.MK cr.MP dash punch. From the (throw) headbutt i get it sometimes. The problem is that i find it really hard (more like "i never land it") when it's from the cRH or the dashing ground straight; it seems that you are never close enough to land a meat cMK. Is there anyway that you can get close to land this?

Thanks a lot guys. I am planning on buying xbox 360 just for ST HD revival. LOLS.

[Airthrow]

Sorry guys, i may be kinda late in asking bout this but what the hey. Boxer kicks ass. More power to the boxer players out there! That means Graham, Tsuji, Daigo, Tamashima, Afrolegends, and more. If it were not for your vids i would not have taken an interest in Boxer. BTW Super turbo is practically dead here in the Philippines. Thank god for kaillera.

Yeah when I was in the PI in Manilla/Quezon City in 2006, I never even saw an ST machine... I will be going back probably around May, are you in Manila? If so, we should play...
My two main questions center on these two juggles:

1. j.MK/HK cr.LP cr.LP st.LP dash punch or super
2. cr.MK cr.MP dash punch


1a. I have seen this juggle performed by daigo and tsuji. For the easier part, i am pertaining to landing the "j.MK/HK cr.LP cr.LP st.LP" 4 hit juggle part. It seems easier to get this on characters like sagat. I have also landed this on CE guile. Ive tried it on Ken but to no avail (and the jap players seem to land it consistently on the shotos). So is this characters specific or is is strictly timing?

The trick is to do cr. lp x2, forward, neutral, back+lp, f+lp. As far as I know it's not character specific.


2. I know that this is basically a meaty cr.MK cr.MP dash punch. From the (throw) headbutt i get it sometimes. The problem is that i find it really hard (more like "i never land it") when it's from the cRH or the dashing ground straight; it seems that you are never close enough to land a meat cMK. Is there anyway that you can get close to land this?

You don't need the cr. mk to be meaty (if by meaty you mean that it's out before they completely stand up, which is how I understand the term), you just have to be close to them and have charge.

Getting in close with Balrog, use TAPs and Dashes, and also the b, d/f+short kick rush to headbutts.

[misterpoon]

Yeah when I was in the PI in Manilla/Quezon City in 2006, I never even saw an ST machine... I will be going back probably around May, are you in Manila? If so, we should play...

Wow great! I am at the heart of Manila! All i need now is to order some decent joysticks.

Thanks for the method on the 1st combo.

I'll try out the 2nd one more. Having a hard time getting the c.MK -> c.MP to combo (just like sometimes i don't get to combo on Claw's j.HP -> c.MK -> c.MP).

[Airthrow]

For that combo, which has very specific timing, I tend to hit c. mk while holding down back, mash cr. mp, and then move the stick to df and press jab.

But both cr. MK and cr. Jab are able to be blocked high as well as low, and I find cr. jab> cr. jab>stand jab> low rush to be a much easier combo to do, but since cr. mk is such a high priority move, I just go for that combo when I land a close cr. mk since it's the best option.

[Airthrow]

Also, I'm thinking that comboing the super isn't nearly as important as using it as a tool to get in on fireballers. Is there any time outside of a dizzy that anyone goes for combo into super?

Also, I read somewhere that Honda and Blanka stand up automatically after being hit w/ 2 moves. So, I'm guessing that makes crouch jabX2, stand jab xx fierce rush or super more feasible on them.

You can get real far without ever using the combo into super. It is very hard because on the ground the opponent can crouch block or high block ANY of your normals that link into super, so you have to catch them completely not blocking.

You can setup a jab x3 > super after a grab and then a crossing sides.

Also I recently blocked a flashkick in a money match and punished guile when he landed with jab x 3>super.

But...considering I've probably played in around 15 tournaments since I learned how to do it, it's very rare that you'd even be in the situation to land that combo...and since he has the best super in the game, it's one of the best psychological tools just to have a full super bar and know you can reach out and touch someone if they make a mistake...

[fatboy]

The trick is to do cr. lp x2, forward, neutral, back+lp, f+lp.


Good stuff! Thanks! :tup: I have been wondering this myself. I do not play boxer, so I konw very little about his advanced links!:nunchuck: +rep 2 you! :woot:

[Airthrow]

Good stuff! Thanks! :tup: I have been wondering this myself. I do not play boxer, so I konw very little about his advanced links!:nunchuck: +rep 2 you! :woot:

Thanks. I'll get off my lazy ass and post some vids of Seattle ST tonight, I have the match where I link to super too. :nunchuck:

I am having trouble trying to link cr. short x2 > super with Ken (My new char). :shake:

ST is such a weird game, I *ALWAYS* am learning new stuff when I watch videos, it's almost esoteric... I really think Capcom just got lucky, I doubt all of the awesome things about the game 15 (or whatever) years later are intentional...

[wakeupsweep]

Don't you have to do two complete qcf's in order to kara cancel from low shorts? I know I can't get it stopping at df, and the wiki agrees with me.

edit: http://www.shoryuken.com/wiki/index.php/Super_Street_Fighter_2_Turbo#Chain_Canceling_.28fo rmerly_known_as_.22Renda_Canceling.22.29

[lftrpllr]

Fatboy is right, short, short super is most easily done from the neutral crouch position. You can do the entire super motion after the second short hits so its pretty easy to hit confirm the combo. The timing is really lenient. You can do the super pretty late after the sencond short and it will still connect but often the first hit of the super will miss (but hits 2-5 still connect). This technique works after any number of shorts (typically 1-3 shorts is all you can land before a super). Another fun little fact is that if you do the super motion without meter, a jab dp comes out instead of a super for a quick little 3-hit knockdown combo. I find low shortx2, jab dp is most easily done with a super motion rather then a dp motion and if you get meter, bonus!

-wes

[fatboy]

Don't you have to do two complete qcf's in order to kara cancel from low shorts? I know I can't get it stopping at df, and the wiki agrees with me.

edit: http://www.shoryuken.com/wiki/index.php/Super_Street_Fighter_2_Turbo#Chain_Canceling_.28fo rmerly_known_as_.22Renda_Canceling.22.29

Moved to N.Ken thread

[wakeupsweep]

Also note that you must go all the way to towards (even though Ken's super motion only requires you to go to down/towards). This is because for chain canceling, you must switch from crouching to standing (or from standing to crouching). Because you started with cr.Shorts, you have to end with a st.Short.
It definitely says you need to go all the way to towards. Someone's wrong here, whether it's you or the wiki I can't tell though.

edit: one thing, it's also possible to link the super after the 2 shorts, and that doesn't require to complete qcf's.

[fatboy]

Snip....

Moved to N. Ken thread!

[misterpoon]

Hey Dudes, was wondering about Boxer's d (charge) up + P head butt. When going through fireballs is there a safe version to use depending on range? I usually screw up when trying to travel forward with d (charge) up + HP head butt versus a fireball character a whole screen away.

For reference is d (charge) up + LP head B safe when you are super close? I have seen the Boxer players do this on a cornered opponent:

(charge d/b) c.LP -> c. LP -> c.MP -> d/f + LK -> u + LP Head butt.

Is the Head butt not punishable? Thanks.

Not familiar yet with the frame data of this game. I have crap knowledge concerning hit boxes too. Thanks a million!

[Josh-TheFunkDOC]

The headbutt can always be thrown if the opponent is close enough. Other than that, I think only really quick normals can punish it on block? The jab headbutt is not all that unsafe from what I can tell.

Also, in my limited experience, MP headbutt seems to be the best choice for going through fireballs. Fierce is sometimes good too because of the range obviously, but it's slower overall and the range can make it easier for the opponent to punish.

Now then, any suggestions against Old Ken? My best guess is to play him kinda like Sim - don't headbutt through the jab fireballs, but look to trade or occasionally jump over them. However, unlike Sim, he has an annoying safe jab DP that kills the TAP. Maybe play defensively, wait for DPs and low rush, then TAP if you think he's scared?

If you can get in, he has a hard time, and once you get meter he's screwed. It's the rest of the matchup that I need to work on...

Thanks,
Josh.

[Half-Ro]

Hey guys, I want to step my game up with rog.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxuY5BFV6t4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9uZqq-9MJk

Any advice??

[Airthrow]

I just noticed, if you already have charge, you can do cr. mk, standing LP, low rush or short kick rush. This does more damage than cr. lp x2, st. lp, low rush/kick rush. So it's better if you have charge...

[Half-Ro]

I just noticed, if you already have charge, you can do cr. mk, standing LP, low rush or short kick rush. This does more damage than cr. lp x2, st. lp, low rush/kick rush. So it's better if you have charge...

If this pertains to me, Sometimes when you see that in the vid, im going for the super but missed. Most of the time I go for c.mk, c.mp link into the low/upper rush. Thanks for the advice though.

[Shag]

Half-Ro, I noticed you would clam up when Ken kept you at distance with his cr.mk. At this distance I suggest you do a quick TAP at times. It will beat out his cr.mk but if you are predictable with it he can DP you. You can watch him retract his foot and then go for low dash but that is easier said than done.

You also tend to jump forward against his slow fireball, I say try to jab headbutt through them or do a standing jump fierce to guide over them.

...MP headbutt seems to be the best choice for going through fireballs...

Really? I think its the worst option of the three. The only time I use mp headbutt in that situation is to do it early against low tiger shots.

[Airthrow]

If this pertains to me, Sometimes when you see that in the vid, im going for the super but missed. Most of the time I go for c.mk, c.mp link into the low/upper rush. Thanks for the advice though.

That didn't pertain to you, it was just something I figured out in practice mode. :tup:

You should also be able to do cr. mk, standing jab or short into super, but I dunno what real-game situation you'd be in where that's a better choice than jabs into super, which already almost guarantees death and would be easier to do.

[Josh-TheFunkDOC]

Really? I think its the worst option of the three. The only time I use mp headbutt in that situation is to do it early against low tiger shots.

Yep, I was still new as can be when I posted some of this stuff, sorry. =P That version seems to have really weird inv frames, and I've mostly dropped it now that I can time jab headbutt through fireballs.

[brian]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwYKQM9dflU

Witness aniken's beautiful answer to claw's wall dives.

Now someone tell me how he does it....

edit: it happens twice in the last round of the boxer vs claw game

[Airthrow]

Balrog's execution for the super is back, towards, back, towards+P. It works on the same principal as the anti-crossup DP, if what direction "towards" is changes during the execution, you can still change to the correct "towards" and get the move out.

So when he's kick rushing to the right, he's doing back, towards+kick (i.e., left, right+kick), then vega jumps over, and he has already done one "back, towards", so he only has to press another back, towards (right, left)+P to super.

[brian]

so its just charge left, right + kick, then left + punch?

[Airthrow]

so its just charge left, right + kick, then left + punch?

No, L, R+short, (right counts as FORWARD) then you need another back forward, so right (now counts as BACK), left+super button.

It really helps to think of it as back and forward instead of left and right and you'll see what I mean. :tup:

Unfortunately I don't play against claws very much so I probably won't get to use this until Midwest Championships.

[brian]

Sorry Im confused.

So now youre saying its

charge left, right + kick, right, left + punch.

In the middle there you are pressing right two times in a row. Are you saying you have to return to neutral in between? If not its the same as what I said.

[Airthrow]

Only the first right is a "forward" because Claw is on the right of you, during the second right he's to the left of you, so that right directional is a "back"

Yes, you have to return to neutral.

[Josh-TheFunkDOC]

I don't think this has been posted yet, so here's a nice little bit of info.

After the throw, Boxer can immediately perform a jump-in on the following characters:

Sagat
another Boxer
Cammy
Fei-Long

I know that in the Boxer mirror it is a safe jump-in, but I'm not sure about the others (think they are as well, but not positive). It does not work in the corner, either, since the opponent reaches the ground much more quickly.

Oh yeah, and you can also get a safe jump-in against Zangief...but only sometimes. He can randomly land behind you, so it's not recommended.

-Josh

[ToyRobotTerror]

what differences does o.boxer have?

[fatboy]

what differences does o.boxer have?


No supers.
No low ruhes
Rush punch hits mid.


That is all I know.:wink:

[Footsy Bebop]

I think all his rush punches knock down?

[Raisin]

O.Boxer's dash punch actually can trade hits or even win cleanly (depending on range?) versus Chun Li's Lightning legs, scoring big damage and a knockdown. I don't really know the nuances of this, I just know there's some weird interactions of this move (and others too?) that work well vs. Chun Li.

I think I remember learning this from a post NKI once wrote about the unusual advantages O.Boxer had against Chun. Regardless, his quick breakdown was a lot more informative and accurate than mine could ever hope to be, but I can't seem to find the post anymore. I think I remember it being buried in one of the huge threads somewhere, but I can't find it with the search function.

Not that I think O.Boxer is better than N.Boxer in general or anything, and it's not like I would even know, since I don't play either. It's just an interesting difference between them in that particular matchup.

[ToyRobotTerror]

so rog is pretty fun now when i have charging down. How would i start playing him besides the obvious combos?

[Airthrow]

Get the person in the corner at far st. FP range and alternate between that, low rush, d/f+short kick rush into immediate throw, and super to punish jabs, and observe rape.

[AudioCG]

so rog is pretty fun now when i have charging down. How would i start playing him besides the obvious combos?

I can throw you a few tricks, nothing NKI like mind you, but basic stuff to hit your opponent IN THE FACE, as Rog should.

Use your Shoulder to advance on fireballers, but dont always go for the maximum range, mix it up a bit (lp) or you'll be eating a sweep, or DP.

Use low rush punches often, get your opponent focusing on lower defence, and punish them from afar when they try to advance (usually when you have Life advantage, and you have shut down the FBs)

Always charge! You can catch early jumpers on reaction with your K rush punch, then follow up with a meaty low rush on wake up, or a variety of mix up games.

Headbutt, Headbutt, Headbutt (not against Gief or Honda! Unless yer real sneaky like)

You can use a lk rush punch to headbutt and really mess up someones offence, then go right into the loop.

cr.mk is not safe, but catches people off guard with its range and speed, cr.mp is a safer option, and allows combos, mix it up. An example would be: cr.mk to cr.mp to lk rush to headbutt loop. (always fun)

Wake up shoulders mess up jumpy bastids. And dont forget the range of your st.hp (just dont be twitchy, wouldent want a rush to come out by accident!) Same goes for your "sweep", nasty range.

cr.hp does wonders when you just dont have time to get a shoulder out.

TAP.... tough to use, but worth it for the nasty suprise, dont lean on it, but use it every once in a while to keep them frosty. (cant tell you how many "lost" matches Ive stolen back with a hefty "5" and such, brutal pain.)

uuuuuuuhhhhhh, mk rush to mk chains a standing opponent, and opens you right up close and personal. Rog can mix alot of stuff up and make it work, low to high to throw to meaty, keep it fresh.

Any pros want to throw in on this? I am no hero, but I can piss people off with Rog often enough, thought I would throw in a helping hand.

[ToyRobotTerror]

thanks guys.

[ToyRobotTerror]

How do i handle fei long?

[Airthrow]

You can't headbutt him unless he chicken kicks you while you are already charged, because you will get hit by the chicken kick if you are crouchgin... if you don't have charge do cr. fierce to anti-air him, also jab headbutts beats rekkas. This fight is awkward but is probably 7-3 boxer's favor IMO. Just meter-build and don't get chicken kicked or jump too much and you should win.

edit: Also to add to AudioCG's advice, if you are playing a decent Guile you should never headbutt through sonic booms anywhere except fullscreen and near fullscreen with jab headbutts, anything else and he can punish. You need to jump, press neutral fierce, and then move the stick forward so you land closer to Guile.

[ToyRobotTerror]

Nice. Ill try that thanks. problem is he can stand and do flamekicks in the corner until he gets meter all day.

[Airthrow]

If he's doing that, then you can either time a kickrush to punish him as he's comming down, or just X-copy his technique and jab headbut and lvl 1 TAP to build meter (probably about as fast as him) then if you are the last one to super he will run out of invincibility before you so you will beat his super.

edit: as always, not posting as if I am