Sagat thread

[orochizoolander]

For those of u who havent read my thread in the SFAC XBL forum then keep in mind i got this game 2 days ago, played about 100 matches on xbl, switched my controls to y=fierce p and b=fierce k, and use the joystick not d-pad.

I mostly use ce sagat simply cuz he's my best guy n i love how u can match ur opponents 3-4 hit combos with a single fierce uppercut. I'm pretty good at turtling and i'd say my best asset is my ability to play mind games by mixing tiger shots for example when the opponent is far away generally i'll throw 2 cr slow shots n then a fast st shot which usually hits there feet as they try to jump over it n then when they figure this out after my first slow cr shot i immediately throw a fast st shot which also works. I also have a habit of alternating fierce st and cr shots which does hella block damage and at mid-close range i walk back and fourth rapidly so when i move back this forces the opponent to jump in cuz theyr thinking that since i'm pressing the back button i won't b fast enough to press :dp: :hp: and that works about 75% of the time.

My major weakspot i'd say is knowing which combos to use and when so any help on combo strats with ce sagat would help alot. What is the most damaging combo with sagat? cuz sagat quickly dizzies the opponent and when i'm in range to do a combo i always do j.weak k+cr.weak k+st. fierce uppercut but when the opponent isn't dizzyed the only combo i can pull off is st.weak p+fierce uppercut. The only practical use i see for tiger knee is for quickly getting close to my opponent and on youtube i've seen sagat users chain j.weak k+cr weak k+fierce tiger knee into a 4 hit combo and i've been practicing this for about 30 mins and can only get the last 3 hits to combo even when i do the j.weak kick very late and i can only do it in the corner so what am i doing wrong?

I noticed that in fighting games in general especially AE i have a foresight where i can predict almost any attack and see it before it comes yet in this game most of the time i can't do anything about it as in react to it cuz half the time i throw an uppercut a tiger shot comes out and visa versa so why is it so hard for me to do moves at will? am i inputting the wrong motions or is it the games slowass framerate?

is ce the only version of sagat i should use?

I would appreciate any general start help and/or links to gameplay videos of ce sagat. Also can i get some character specific matchup help? I completely own st balrog and my worst matchup is ce guile thats all i know so far.

[Graham]

i was hoping we could lean away from posting anything to do with that horrid game AE now that evo finals is over. If you want tips for old sagat from super turbo or new sagat, hit me up with em. But any other sagat is trash in my book now.

[Spirited_Away]

Some CE Sagat combos :

Jumpin RH, S.Short, Fierce TU (tiger uppercut) (most damaging for CE Sagat)
Jumpin RH, S.Short, Rh Tiger Knee
Slow (jab/short) Tiger shot, fast tiger shot (fierce/rh) (2 hit - high stun chance)
Meaty c. forward, c. roundhouse.

Advanced Link combos :

Jumpin Rh , S .Strong, Low short, RH Tiger Knee ( large characters )
Cross up RH/Short, S.Strong, Fierce Tiger Uppercut
Jumpin RH , S.Jab x 3, Tiger Knee. (timing the jabs to combo is very precise)
Meaty Tiger short (corner), walk a bit, Fierce Tiger uppercut. !!

[orochizoolander]

THX it took me about 15 minutes to realize that in order to make all 3 hits of his most damaging combo connect i need to do the jump in kick VERY VERY EARLY i was like DAM! even when i do the jump in kickearly it carries over for alot of frames.

the meaty short with the baited fierce TU is godtier lol i'm surprised ppl actually fall for it.

OMG i jus realized the craziest thing in training mode against st ryu i did a crouching short jab n then if i JUST press foward after that he does a tiger shot n it counts as a 2 hit combo... WTF?!?!?!?1?!?!?1?!?!1?

[Jorant]

i was hoping we could lean away from posting anything to do with that horrid game AE now that evo finals is over. If you want tips for old sagat from super turbo or new sagat, hit me up with em. But any other sagat is trash in my book now.

I'm starting to feel this ST forum's turning into an AE forum... I agree, ST only please?

Would you say it's foolish to pick N.Sagat over O.Sagat in this game? Isn't the throw escapes and super bar worth at least something to his game? I've never seen on person or one video of him being played N style.

[Graham]

I'm starting to feel this ST forum's turning into an AE forum... I agree, ST only please?

Would you say it's foolish to pick N.Sagat over O.Sagat in this game? Isn't the throw escapes and super bar worth at least something to his game? I've never seen on person or one video of him being played N style.

the low tiger shot for old sagat is the best fireball in the game hands down. Its only beaten by ww guiles sonic boom. To use anything but old sagat would be just handicapping yourself. New sagat has a few toys but nothing worth giving up that fireball speed.

as for ce sagat combos. Jump roundhouse, low short, roundhouse tiger knee. Best damage combo in game for ce/hf sagats from ae.

[Kyokuji]

I'm pretty good at turtling and i'd say my best asset is my ability to play mind games by mixing tiger shots

Big difference between turtling and zoning.

I also have a habit of alternating fierce st and cr shots which does hella block damage and at mid-close range i walk back and fourth rapidly so when i move back this forces the opponent to jump in cuz theyr thinking that since i'm pressing the back button i won't b fast enough to press and that works about 75% of the time.

You say this like you're the first one to do it or something.

As for N. Sagat, his super blows, and he doesn't really have anything new besides the multi-hit tiger uppercut which is more of a handicap than anytihng.

[orochizoolander]

Other then ce guile which is blatantly obvious to even me what are ce sags's bad matchups?

kyokuji: LOL sry i didn't clarify but i know i'm turtling when i use my tiger shots cuz i rarely use tiger shots as a means for advancing into rushdown mode...i'm not sure but i think that's what tiger knee is mainly for.

What is the ideal distance for ce sag? His keepaway game is godtier but i also noticed that the distance between mid and close is sort of a sweetspot cuz it's kind of close but not rly so it kind of baits the oppnent to jump...or u get at least 1 good clean fierce through so when they'r knocked down to i advance or stay far away?

To me it look like the jump roundhouse+short combo does the same amount of damage whether i use tiger knee or uppercut at the end so am i missing something? And as long as we're on combos when if ever is the right time to use anything+tigershot combo?

[Graham]

actually sagat beats guile, he loses to st balrog and dhalsim.

[orochizoolander]

Really? wow um i jus based my opinion off my matches with "whole neo geo" who is ranked 48 in AE cuz i raped his st balrog with my tiger shots evry single time but whenever him or anyone else picks cd guile i get owned in the face also i assumed that guiles sonic boom combos cud easily take advantage of sagats long reach.

BTW yeah sim is impossible tiger shots rarely hit and uppercut leaves me in a very very punishable position against sim....do do u have any tips?

[Eric H]

The thing that surprised me about Sagat is the amount of range his Uppercut takes up. When executed correctly you could probably send your opponent flying from one side of the screen to the other because of how much impact it has.

[TarkanX]

Moves that can be canceled (O.Sagat)
--------------------------
s.jab (close and far)
s.strong (close and far)
s.short (close and far)
s.forward (close and far)
s.roundhouse (close)
c.jab
c.strong
c.short
c.forward


Anti-airs
--------------------
s.strong (far)
s.fierce (far)
s.roundhouse (far)
c.roundhouse
j.strong
j.roundhouse
Tiger uppercut

[Sage]

actually sagat beats guile, he loses to st balrog and dhalsim.

Whats your opinion on old Sagat vs Vega(claw). Everytime i throw a fireball from close range his speed is so fast he just easily jumps over them and hits me in my recovery and whenever im that close in range i easily get outpoked. Any help is appreciated.

[Graham]

Whats your opinion on old Sagat vs Vega(claw). Everytime i throw a fireball from close range his speed is so fast he just easily jumps over them and hits me in my recovery and whenever im that close in range i easily get outpoked. Any help is appreciated.

do a fake fireball, when he jumps and loses 1/3 his life from a tiger uppercut, he will rethinking jumping in on you when you throw a fireball.

when he tries that ground game close, just block and when it seems like he is poking alot you can jump at him and do a roundhouse, either he blocks or gets hit by it, but its a good way to hit him since he cannot anti air you if he is poking, also jumping straight up works if he slides alot, you come down with a roundhouse into a combo that can dizzy him or just jump roundhouse, low roundhouse, either one hurts alot and scares him into not poking, which is when you do a fake fireball to make him jump into more damage.

[Sage]

do a fake fireball, when he jumps and loses 1/3 his life from a tiger uppercut, he will rethinking jumping in on you when you throw a fireball.

when he tries that ground game close, just block and when it seems like he is poking alot you can jump at him and do a roundhouse, either he blocks or gets hit by it, but its a good way to hit him since he cannot anti air you if he is poking, also jumping straight up works if he slides alot, you come down with a roundhouse into a combo that can dizzy him or just jump roundhouse, low roundhouse, either one hurts alot and scares him into not poking, which is when you do a fake fireball to make him jump into more damage.

Yeah i should of thought of that since i do it with Ryu all the time, old Sagat can shoot without much risk against alot of the cast so i can get careless and fireball happy. Thanks for the tips i think they will help me greatly.

One last question i forgot to add was if Sagat can cleanly reversal DP Vega's rolling claw special on wakeup when the roll is hitting you meaty on one of the active hitting frames. I can never pull it off and eat a dizzy combo. I tried to emulate it and couldnt even get a reversal message. I dont know if im messing up or that move it just crazy good or something.

[Graham]

Yeah i should of thought of that since i do it with Ryu all the time, old Sagat can shoot without much risk against alot of the cast so i can get careless and fireball happy. Thanks for the tips i think they will help me greatly.

One last question i forgot to add was if Sagat can cleanly reversal DP Vega's rolling claw special on wakeup when the roll is hitting you meaty on one of the active hitting frames. I can never pull it off and eat a dizzy combo. I tried to emulate it and couldnt even get a reversal message. I dont know if im messing up or that move it just crazy good or something.

any move that isnt invincible can be reversal uppercutted by invincible moves if there is a hitbox in the range. This is one of those you must time it perfect or pay the price risks. Its like trying to dp on wakeup vs st bison doing low forward into scissor kick, its not worth it unless you feel your wakeup reversal timing is perfect. If you fail, you dizzy and lose the entire round. But to answer your question, you are failing at timing it properly. Its hard to time things perfect, but if you want , use the rolling piano button pushing method. That means press jab,strong,fierce in consecutive order as you wakeup with your tiger uppercut, thats 6 chances to hit instead of 2 (each time a button is released when doing a special move it activates as well).

[Sage]

.

I figured its possible to reversal it but i guess its just hard to do and since i have no reliable way of testing it and i have nobody to help me i could only ask at the time. I also use the drumming, always good to have sorta like an insurance on moves. I hope ST on CCC2 has a recording mode, that would be great. Thanks again later. :tup:

[technique121]

does anybody know sagat tiger knee would come in handy on this game i been trying to use it to keep the opponent in corners but the opponent just ducks and comes back with a stronger move

[BKB]

far anti-air

go over fireballs (with good timing)

to quickly get in then throw/DP/etc

Use your low low fireballs to keep them in the corner. Tiger knee isn't for that (although it could knock them back in the corner if you can read a jump/FB and want to be fancy)

[Silks]

yeah, far anti air and whiff into throw/dp like ^^ he said. Far poking move that knocks down. Its speed catches many offguard.

[ni-ten]

So i picked up sagat. I found the tigerknee a bit useless too. I have a hard time containing oponents in the corner with low tiger shots. Any good tigershot patterns/traps?
What to do against a good chun li player?

[technique121]

usally when you start off you should throw out a low tiger shot that way the opponent will jump and you can tiger knee him back where he came from

[jaminbenjamin]

If your opponent is in the corner, you should be fb'ing from very far away or else stand closer to them and wait to dp them.

[JubeiNinja69]

the only use i see for the tiger knee is to hop over fireballs or to get in close after knockdown.

[BKB]

^ that's something else too. Using it for transportation after a knockdown is KEY to landing crossups. Whiff a few knees after an anti-air DP/FB to switch sides or put you in range for crossup.

[i2blue]

you can use it to punish blocked dp's, where crouching hk misses.

[technique121]

what are some bad sagat match ups i already sagat vs blanka i can find anyone else maybe chun li but pretty much it that i know of

[Kyokuji]

sagat vs blanka

Er.'

[Dracula_X]

I didn't think he had any. Talking about O. Sagat anyway

[Se7in]

I've heard Boxer is a somewhat bad matchup for him, though I'd like to see the info that supports this. I know Boxer can TAP, headbutt, and low jump over many of the low tigers, and once he gets in, it's fisticuffs, but who doesn't have that type of difficulty with Boxer (Besides Gief, Blanka, and Honda).

[BKB]

Sim is very good against Sagat. One major thing is that he can drill/spear over low tigers and hit his arms from really far away. So Sagat loses his main game of lowtigerxN.

[Axel Kelly]

I've heard Boxer is a somewhat bad matchup for him, though I'd like to see the info that supports this. I know Boxer can TAP, headbutt, and low jump over many of the low tigers, and once he gets in, it's fisticuffs, but who doesn't have that type of difficulty with Boxer (Besides Gief, Blanka, and Honda).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnG-OBPYa2I
(Last few matches)

Bad example, I know. Daigo is just a beast with Boxer :sad:

[Ouroborus]

i think vega does okay vs sagat but still, sagat has an advantage.

he can react to tiger shots easier than any other character minus sim and once he gets his ambiguous crossup dives in, its hard for sagat (or pretty much anyone except blanka) to get out.

sagat can avoid the ambiguous crossups by staying in the corner but he gets poked to death in the corner.

however, all it takes is a few well calculated tiger uppercuts to turn the tides so just gotta man up and balls out vs vega.

[Se7in]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnG-OBPYa2I
(Last few matches)

Bad example, I know. Daigo is just a beast with Boxer :sad:

Yeah, I've seen that, but then again, it's DAIGO. His match with Valle was MUCH closer.

Back to the topic, why did the topic creator put Chun and Blanka as bad matchups against Thaiger?

[NKI]

Merged a few posts into this thread...

[CapMaster]

Question for the pros out there.

Is it true CE Sagat in AE, in regards to his Tiger Shot's speed and recovery, handles like O. Sagat in ST? if so, is using CE Sagat or Super O. Sagat a better way to practice on AE?

[78_towncar_460]

What is the exact movement for the tiger knee? The hardest hand motions in the game are the D,DF,F,UF + attack (that's the tiger knee with the kick button right?) and the half circles.

I don't like not being able to do the tiger knee as it is a quick move against projectiles.

Do you guys usually jump and buffer the movement, or do you do it from a standstill? I always end up jumping forward when I try from a stand still. Any tips?

[7 5 0]

Old sagat is my primary character. I ruled a lot of wins tonight in CTF.

Outstanding performance too.

[7 5 0]

Tiger knee is DB,D,DF,F,FU kick. The FU is forward up, so follow the motion quickly then tap kick.

[7 5 0]

Question for the pros out there.

Is it true CE Sagat in AE, in regards to his Tiger Shot's speed and recovery, handles like O. Sagat in ST? if so, is using CE Sagat or Super O. Sagat a better way to practice on AE?

It's very similar between CE and Old Sagat. Still old sagat recovers faster in Tiger shots. It's about a half second difference.
The Tiger Knee however is very different, Old Sagat has farther reach than CE and HF Sagat and can hit opponents in crouching stance easily.

Old Sagat is a winner.

[BKB]

CE Sagat also doesn't have a crossup, cancellable s.short, different tiger knee, has unblockable reversals, etc.

He uses similar firetrap, but everything else is different.

[technique121]

i ve been playing hyper fighting sagat and been trying to find some differences between hyper fighting and st sagat only differences i found was st sagat tiger knee took more longer to complete than hyper

oh yeah i think the tiger uppercut invinceblity frames for st sagat is more than hyper fighting

[GIGA-MSX]

There are alot more differences, I wish i had the time to explain between
hyper fighting SAGAT and O.ST SAGAT

[Black Velvet Ryu.]

who has some advice in the old sagat/ chun matchup for someone who sucks.......not me ......a friend of mine.....

can you anti-air with anything other than dp?

anything else would be helpful as well.....for my friend

[Kuprin]

Standing RH can be a half-decent anti-air, but I've seen it lose to various jump-ins. I've never been able to stuff Guile with it, but it's been a long time since I've played O.Sagat. Uppercut is *usually* your best option for anti-air, and when it's not, you're often better off just blocking the combo.

[JubeiNinja69]

so the basic gameplan is tiger shots and when they jump in tiger uppercut.

[technique121]

is it best to use sagat's tiger uppercut with jab only or any punch button

[Bluehaze]

I'm trying to find some match videos of the japanese player Yaya playing as Sagat, I haven't had any success on youtube, but also wasn't sure if he had a kanji/japanese name. Thank-you for the help in advance : )

-Bluehaze

[Grits'N'Gravy]

Question for the pros out there.

Is it true CE Sagat in AE, in regards to his Tiger Shot's speed and recovery, handles like O. Sagat in ST? if so, is using CE Sagat or Super O. Sagat a better way to practice on AE?

Some more differences.

CE Sagat has better high tiger shots. The tiger knee from OG Sagat as that dude hinted at hit's differently than CE Sagat, I think it has to do with the first bit of animation hitting low to the ground so it's better in combos. CE Sagat also doesn't have the 2 hit mk into shot or uppercut.

[Grits'N'Gravy]

I've heard Boxer is a somewhat bad matchup for him, though I'd like to see the info that supports this. I know Boxer can TAP, headbutt, and low jump over many of the low tigers, and once he gets in, it's fisticuffs, but who doesn't have that type of difficulty with Boxer (Besides Gief, Blanka, and Honda).

It's all based on the fact that he can charge up and create fear with his super. That wins a lot of the fireballer matches for him. You can use that fear to make him actually play, which means you can get mid and close range and fuck him up... or you can turtle up with the meter and bait a shot, then super on reaction.

Basically you charge up ASAP and turn the fireballing into a beatable skeleton strategy. Imagine the match changing once you get full from a fight with Ryu to a fight with Ken. Once you have meter, he hasn't got a prayer to trap you.

[ShinAkuma204]

is it best to use sagat's tiger uppercut with jab only or any punch button

The fierce TU does the most damage.

[orochizoolander]

^^^ When u face ppl that can play well n makes very few mistakes u most likely won't even get to use TU at all at that point jumpin RH takes the place since it's "safer".

EDIT: It's MUCH harder to throw out continuous low tiger shots in AE compared to ST.

[Eduardo24]

Why does O. Sagat´s fireball do so much damage?

[fatboy]

Becuase it is part of the Hammer Brothers Suit... :lol: -felinki

Search for his posts...

[zass]

I would not call Boxer a "weak" matchup for Sagat. Daigo is an amazing player but Sagat is one of Boxer's toughest matchups. Maybe it's 50-50, and that could be "weak" for Sagat, but the only character I would call weak for sagat is Dhalsim.

[orochizoolander]

sim is sagats worst MU but boxer is #2 simply cuz he can go through ur tigershots to get close and when that happens ur only chance is to bait a turnppunch and counter with TU or if they are far away throw out low shots to bait the jump n when they do throw a high shot to knock them down from the air...rinse n repeat! though against better players like afrolegends this is MUCH easier said then done.


ST vega can be tough for sagat too cuz his speed+poking ability easily pressures sagat into the corner giving him very few options to do anything about it however don't be afraid to get aggressive and rush that shit down it catches many vegas offguard cuz they expect u to crouchblock in the corner so when u throw out jumping RH's they panic and start jumping which is when u should TU FTW so i would say this match is 50/50


chun can be a pain in the ass cuz her jumping ability and spinning bird kicks can throw ur TU timing off and if she gets u in the corner theres nothing u can do about her lightning kicks u just have to take the block damage and DON'T try jumping RH's cuz her jump kicks will ALWAYS beat yours out in fact they can beat out TU most of the time unless u do it very early just try to stay grounded and keep her far away and be ready to TU on reaction cuz misreading a jump for a SBK or the other way around can cost u the round but i dunno how i would rate her cuz after u learn to read when jumpin is coming and when a SBK is coming the MU gets alot easier so i would say this is 60/40 in chuns favor.

[wakeupsweep]

chun can be a pain in the ass cuz her jumping ability and spinning bird kicks can throw ur TU timing off and is she gets u in the corner theres nothing i can do about her lightning kicks u just have to take the block damage and DON'T try jumping RH's cuz her jump kicks will ALWAYS beat yours out in fact they can beat out TU most of the time unless u do it very early just try to stay grounded and keep her far away and be ready to TU on reaction cuz misreading a jump for a SPB or the other way around can cost u the round but i dunno how i would rate her cuz after u learn to read when jumpin is coming and when a SPB is coming the MU gets alot easier so i would say this is 60/40 in chuns favor.
:rofl:

[ShinAkuma204]

sim is sagats worst MU but boxer is #2 simply cuz he can go through ur tigershots to get close and when that happens ur only chance is to bait a turnppunch and counter with TU ...

Actually what you should do is throw another fast tigershot. In this fight Sagat should be using fast tigershots 90% of the time. Throwing a slow one allow Balrog to avoid with his headrush and locks Sagat out of throwing another one because his first tigershot is still on screen. That allows Balrog to start applying his pressure.

With using almost exclusively fast tigershots Sagat can rethrow one once Balrog lands from his headrush.

[orochizoolander]

^^^uhh what game u talkin bout? in HF it don't work and for AE it's possible but i haven't played ST in a while so i dunno if thats what game u talkin bout.

[ShinAkuma204]

^^^uhh what game u talkin bout? in HF it don't work and for AE it's possible but i haven't played ST in a while so i dunno if thats what game u talkin bout.

Super Turbo.

[Ouroborus]

sim is sagats worst MU but boxer is #2 simply cuz he can go through ur tigershots to get close and when that happens ur only chance is to bait a turnppunch and counter with TU or if they are far away throw out low shots to bait the jump n when they do throw a high shot to knock them down from the air...rinse n repeat! though against better players like afrolegends this is MUCH easier said then done.


ST vega can be tough for sagat too cuz his speed+poking ability easily pressures sagat into the corner giving him very few options to do anything about it however don't be afraid to get aggressive and rush that shit down it catches many vegas offguard cuz they expect u to crouchblock in the corner so when u throw out jumping RH's they panic and start jumping which is when u should TU FTW so i would say this match is 50/50


chun can be a pain in the ass cuz her jumping ability and spinning bird kicks can throw ur TU timing off and if she gets u in the corner theres nothing u can do about her lightning kicks u just have to take the block damage and DON'T try jumping RH's cuz her jump kicks will ALWAYS beat yours out in fact they can beat out TU most of the time unless u do it very early just try to stay grounded and keep her far away and be ready to TU on reaction cuz misreading a jump for a SBK or the other way around can cost u the round but i dunno how i would rate her cuz after u learn to read when jumpin is coming and when a SBK is coming the MU gets alot easier so i would say this is 60/40 in chuns favor.

i cant decipher what you're trying to say. please use periods next time.

[orochizoolander]

^^never!

[Roundhousepunch]

So, as antiair, fierce Tiger Uppercut is always the best option? Also I wonder, what moves can stuff the Uppercut, like t.Hawks jp.jab or chun's jp.short? I guess you gotta be satisfied if you get a trade in those situations, but is there a way to beat them clean?
I'm a bit confused about the timing of the uppercut, very late Uppercuts work well sometimes. On the other hand, I often only get a trade from moves like ryu's jp.fierce or Guile's jp.forward :confused:

[ShinAkuma204]

So, as antiair, fierce Tiger Uppercut is always the best option?

If you're looking for the most damage, yes. I don't think there is a priority difference.

Also I wonder, what moves can stuff the Uppercut, like t.Hawks jp.jab or chun's jp.short? I guess you gotta be satisfied if you get a trade in those situations, but is there a way to beat them clean?

You can beat those clean but you need super timing to do it. A perfectly timed TU on a jump in will look like it's picking to opponent off of the ground to hit them. In those situations it won't trade. However when it does trade it will be in your favor so no worries.

I'm a bit confused about the timing of the uppercut, very late Uppercuts work well sometimes. On the other hand, I often only get a trade from moves like ryu's jp.fierce or Guile's jp.forward :confused:

What you need to do there is TU even later. And you must also TU from a crouch without having to stand. It's tough, but practice makes perfect.

[Roundhousepunch]

Oh I see. Yeah that was also my feeling, doing it like the last possible moment. I guess when i have "too much time" Fierce, Strong and Roundhouse are also good antiair options, but of course I also want to perfect that TU :wgrin:

[ParryPerson.]

Ok guys, this is a SUPER TURBO forum, not a broken ass AE-the-game-no-one-should-be-playing-now-that-CCC2-is-out forum

N.Sagat

O.Sagat

only two chars that exist in this game. Thx.

[UltraDavid]

So, as antiair, fierce Tiger Uppercut is always the best option?
Assuming we're talking about O. Sagat, yes. N. Sagat's fierce uppercut is crappy, use jab for him.

[ShinAkuma204]

Assuming we're talking about O. Sagat, yes. N. Sagat's fierce uppercut is crappy, use jab for him.

Does anybody actually use N Sagat?

[UltraDavid]

Not often, just wanted to make things clear for people who weren't as familiar with the game.

[Daidoji Kage]

Ok, so assuming there is a critical breakdown in o.Sagat's game plan and the opponent does manage to get in and start applying pressure, what are Sagat's options aside from TU?

Right now, the one thing I have for certain is the sacrifice hp throw to the other side of the screen to reset the tiger shot games. That's just too poor of an option though as a wrong guess = dead...

Which normals of his are best to use in this situation?

[fatboy]

Does anybody actually use N Sagat?

Ya.. people do. Still not as good as O. Sagat. Here are a couple of things that ppl sometimes forget about N.Sagat....

He's not all bad...

His LOW Tiger Shots have to be blocked LOW just like O.Sagat.

You can reduce the recovery of his RH Low Tiger shot by -4 frames if you kara cancel from a jab. It give his low RH tiger shot a 45 frame recovery compared to 49. This helps him a lot.

O.sagats low tiger has a 37 frame recovery, Compared to the 45, it is still faster, but 45 is not that bad at all, considering you have to block it low.

SO anyway, I jst post this b/c N.Sagat is not total crap. His low fire ball game is not bad. He is still not a beast like O.Sagat (high damage, fast recovery, big combos, BEEFY TU) but still very usable. :pleased:

[UltraDavid]

Yea, he's still a good character. And I shouldn't have said his fierce uppercut sucks, it doesn't, it's just that it's more situation specific and less universal than O Sagat's fierce uppercut.

[fatboy]

And I shouldn't have said his fierce uppercut sucks, it doesn't, it's just that it's more situation specific and less universal than O Sagat's fierce uppercut.

Agreed.

IIRC from YBH the damage % on the move is.

12+8+3+3+3 = 29% life bar damage

If you can get it deep of an AA you get 29% Damage, that is 1 point less than a Feirce SPD. Not bad...

You can also combo it off of the Close St.strong (hit crouching characters) off of a jump in ( in in close) or a cross up.

JUmp Round house (15 damage) + St. Strong (14 damage)+ Freice TU (29 damage)=58% damage..... ouch...

FYI: (95% sure)

The Jab is 21 damage.
The Strong is 24 damage.

If you don't want to risk them falling out of the Fierce TU.

IM(humble)O: It is best to do the the Strong TU for an AA. If your timing is a little off, you still trade to a huge advantage compared to the Fierce.

If you wawnt to get better positioning after the TU, then do the Jab version. You recover faster and have a faction of a second to move iinto a slightly better position on the board/screen if you want it.

[geadom]

Ok, so assuming there is a critical breakdown in o.Sagat's game plan and the opponent does manage to get in and start applying pressure, what are Sagat's options aside from TU?

Right now, the one thing I have for certain is the sacrifice hp throw to the other side of the screen to reset the tiger shot games. That's just too poor of an option though as a wrong guess = dead...

Which normals of his are best to use in this situation?

cr. short, st.short (GODLY poke), cr. mk, to low tiger shots is your best bet (all three of them). The pushback after low TS is REALLY far, and combined with st.short (a REALLY LONG, FAST, hard to punish and CANCELLABLE poke to TS), O.Sagat midrange, imo is GODLY.

[ShinAkuma204]

Ok, so assuming there is a critical breakdown in o.Sagat's game plan and the opponent does manage to get in and start applying pressure, what are Sagat's options aside from TU?

Right now, the one thing I have for certain is the sacrifice hp throw to the other side of the screen to reset the tiger shot games. That's just too poor of an option though as a wrong guess = dead...

Which normals of his are best to use in this situation?

Crouching strong isn't bad. Standing short is really good and crouching fierce is really fast.

Ya.. people do. Still not as good as O. Sagat. Here are a couple of things that ppl sometimes forget about N.Sagat....

He's not all bad...

His LOW Tiger Shots have to be blocked LOW. O.Sagats firballs can be blocked high.

O. Sagats low tiger shots must also be blocked low. That characteristic of Sagats low tiger shot was introduced in Super Street Fighter 2.

[fatboy]

O. Sagats low tiger shots must also be blocked low. That characteristic of Sagats low tiger shot was introduced in Super Street Fighter 2.

Really? Maybe I am just confusing it with CE (been playing a lot of AE lately). I'll double check tonight, and edit where appropiate. Thanks! :tup:

[fatboy]

OK. The score is: Shin akuma 2, fatboy 0. (shakes fist in air... I'll get you one day!)

I don't know how I over looked that. You are correct (AGAIN :wink:) I swear I checked it, but, appraently not.

In my quest to better understand the different versions of Sagat :karate: , I must have lost track of that.

Thanks for correcting me. I don't want to spread bad info! :tup:

[ThisGuileKillYa]

In my quest to better understand the different versions of Sagat, I must have lost track of that.


Sorry if this was already stated in this thread.. I gave it a quick browse and didn't see it, but the main difference between O and N Sagat, aside single hit DP and faster FB, is that O's standing LK and standing MK can both be canceled off of either of their 2 hits. That makes standing short twice as godly :)

[ShinAkuma204]

Sorry if this was already stated in this thread.. I gave it a quick browse and didn't see it, but the main difference between O and N Sagat, aside single hit DP and faster FB, is that O's standing LK and standing MK can both be canceled off of either of their 2 hits. That makes standing short twice as godly :)

I thought new Sagat could also cancel off of the second hit as well?

Wow, that makes N Sagat extra sucky.

[orochizoolander]

What's a better poke in general for o.sagat: s short or st forward? cuz both can cancel but short has shorter activation (not sure by how many frames) while forward does more damage.




All i ever use o.sagats tigerknee for is:

-getting in close/ for a crossup after a knockdown
-far AA (chuns jump kicks beat it sometimes though that's prolly due to my own mistiming)
-jumping over fireballs without risking being being AA'ed (strict timing)



I don't see anything else i would use it for consistently.





I noticed that while i have a solid turtle game i have a poor offensive game with sagat and against a good player i usually stay in the back/midrange and keep up the firetrap instead of moving in closer so can anyone tell me what are some good offensive tactics/pokes to pressure the opponent when u have them on the defensive/in the corner?

[ShinAkuma204]

What's a better poke in general for o.sagat: s short or st forward? cuz both can cancel but short has shorter activation (not sure by how many frames) while forward does more damage.

Standing short is Sagats best poke. Standing forward can be ducked by most characters.

All i ever use o.sagats tigerknee for is:

-getting in close/ for a crossup after a knockdown
-far AA (chuns jump kicks beat it sometimes though that's prolly due to my own mistiming)
-jumping over fireballs without risking being being AA'ed (strict timing)

You can also use the tiger knee after your opponent blocks a meaty jumping roundhouse. Do a short tiger knee. It will put you right within throw range and then you can either:

-Tiger uppercut
-Throw

For some reason in this scenario Sagat has an extremely high chance of connecting a throw. Use sparingly as a mix up because if your opponent reads it right, not reacts but reads, they will get a free throw.

Many times if they just react they will eat a TU.

You can also throw a low slow tigershot instead of a tiger knee after the meaty blocked jumping roundhouse for extra mixup.

I don't see anything else i would use it for consistently.

You can use it to chase a tech throw enemy. depending on wen they teched your throw you can tiger knee after them you get up close and apply the pressure.

[SpinalBlood]

Imho new sagat isnt sucky, it's old sagat that is just too good. New sagat is probably mid at least (above?)

I did occasionally a 3 hit combo (c.lk, c.lp, uppercut) but I guess doing it on purpose is not easy

PS: O.sagat is for sissies :wgrin:

[Ehonda]

What differences are there in o sagat in ST and SSf2 sagat. technically there supposed to be the same character but i've heard there are significant differences. Could anyone point these out if this is true.

[CapMaster]

What differences are there in o sagat in ST and SSf2 sagat. technically there supposed to be the same character but i've heard there are significant differences. Could anyone point these out if this is true.

If you're talking about straight O.Sagat and regular SSF2 Sagat (the non-AE versions) the difference is that O. Sagat's Tiger Shots are faster, with less recovery time. Also, on his standing short and forward, he can buffer after the 2nd hit. So instead of doing stand short, cancel off the first hit into Tiger Uppercut, you can do a standing short, let both hits connect, and then cancel off of the second hit into whatever. I think there also may be some differences in terms of damage/stun damage, and I there might be something about how O.Sagat's low Tigers MUST be blocked low. I'm not sure if this is in SSF2, but it is in ST.

[dogberry]

Also SSF2 sagat is taller(?) in terms of his character hitbox. That's why those crazy jump jab air HK combos new Ken has only works on ssf2 sagat and not old sagat in AE.

[ShinAkuma204]

Also SSF2 sagat is taller(?) in terms of his character hitbox. That's why those crazy jump jab air HK combos new Ken has only works on ssf2 sagat and not old sagat in AE.

That may just be some odd AE thing. I don't think Sagat had a larger hit box in the actual SSF2 vs ST.

[BKB]

If I recall correctly, Ken had the crazy air hurricane redizzy combos in SSF2 as well.

So maybe Sagat IS taller in SSF2.. *shrugs*

[ShinAkuma204]

If I recall correctly, Ken had the crazy air hurricane redizzy combos in SSF2 as well.

So maybe Sagat IS taller in SSF2.. *shrugs*

It was much easier to combo the air tatsu in SSF2.

From playing SSF2 I never noticed any differences in sizing between Sagats from SSF2 and ST, though Sagat may simply be taller and not actually wider.

[Gonzales]

i would appreciate a little more imput on the claw machtup it seems like claw has an easy time avoiding the fireballs and using his wall dive to bait an uppercut once he gets in its over
is it just me or is claw's priority a pain in the ass for o.sagat?

[orochizoolander]

Whats your opinion on old Sagat vs Vega(claw). Everytime i throw a fireball from close range his speed is so fast he just easily jumps over them and hits me in my recovery and whenever im that close in range i easily get outpoked. Any help is appreciated.

do a fake fireball, when he jumps and loses 1/3 his life from a tiger uppercut, he will rethinking jumping in on you when you throw a fireball.

when he tries that ground game close, just block and when it seems like he is poking alot you can jump at him and do a roundhouse, either he blocks or gets hit by it, but its a good way to hit him since he cannot anti air you if he is poking, also jumping straight up works if he slides alot, you come down with a roundhouse into a combo that can dizzy him or just jump roundhouse, low roundhouse, either one hurts alot and scares him into not poking, which is when you do a fake fireball to make him jump into more damage.

i would appreciate a little more imput on the claw machtup it seems like claw has an easy time avoiding the fireballs and using his wall dive to bait an uppercut once he gets in its over
is it just me or is claw's priority a pain in the ass for o.sagat?



I hope that helps.



Anyways i want to apologize to everyone in this thread for even talking about AE CE sagat i dunno what i was thinking i'm glad we could all forget bout that and move on to JUST ST sagat discussion.

Sometimes i notice when i'm full screen away and the opponent jumps at me my st. rh and fierce DP doesn't reach them so what do i do in those situations?

Also boxer seems to be my hardest matchup i can keep him out for a while but when he gets in it's really hard for me to get out of his block strings.

[CapMaster]

I hope that helps.



Anyways i want to apologize to everyone in this thread for even talking about AE CE sagat i dunno what i was thinking i'm glad we could all forget bout that and move on to JUST ST sagat discussion.

Sometimes i notice when i'm full screen away and the opponent jumps at me my st. rh and fierce DP doesn't reach them so what do i do in those situations?

Also boxer seems to be my hardest matchup i can keep him out for a while but when he gets in it's really hard for me to get out of his block strings.

From full screen away? Sometimes stand fierce can get them. Or you can try to hit them with a high Tiger Shot. Or, depending on character, sometimes even foot sweep.

Against Balrog..I know it sounds cliche, but just keep him out the whole match. Make it very difficult for him to ever get in. Try to bait out headbutts over Tiger Shots, and hit him with either stand fierce, foot sweep, or..Something good. If he somehow gets in, try anything, like stand short into low tiger, or crouch short/forward into tiger to try to push him back out and start over again.

And of course, when Balrog gets super, be careful with your Tiger Shot selections. if the Balrog is losing, he's going to be looking everywhere for a chance to super through a fireball. Make him miss!

[ShinAkuma204]

Sometimes i notice when i'm full screen away and the opponent jumps at me my st. rh and fierce DP doesn't reach them so what do i do in those situations?

Standing fierce is a good option, but be careful, it doesn't have the highest priority.

You can also restart the zoning with a slow low tiger so that they must block it when they land.

Also boxer seems to be my hardest matchup i can keep him out for a while but when he gets in it's really hard for me to get out of his block strings.

You will need to TU one of his attacks and reset the zone.

You also should throw more fast tigers against Boxer. When Boxer avoids the slow tiger Sagat can't push him out until the slow tiger is off screen. Often that is more than enough time for Boxer to get in on you.

[SpinalBlood]

Premise: I use New Sagat

I need some infos or vids against bison (dictator). For some reasons I find the matchup very troublesome.

His air speed (charged + normal jumps) means I cant fireball at all even at max range. If I jump predicting air stuff he can beat me with his missile, even a godly j.hk will trade at the best cases apparently, generally I got beated. I can't uppercut or missile will beat me, I can try some psichich/lucky uppercuts but I don't have the damage of o.sagat. The missile also dodge low fireballs but if I fire high I can suffer the slide (or a j.hk). if I keep blocking I still suffer block damage from missile, I might win a throw but it would be teched/ready to suffer some close range dictator shenanigans (lk/throws), sometimes at corner the c.hk doesnt work.

The only thing that seems to save me is pressure at corner with the godly s.lk but
generally playing defensely will bring me to defeat, I have a bit fear to fireball/move forward

Any hints? Shall I abuse some tiger knee game?

[Critical King]

Premise: I use New Sagat

I need some infos or vids against bison (dictator). For some reasons I find the matchup very troublesome.

His air speed (charged + normal jumps) means I cant fireball at all even at max range. If I jump predicting air stuff he can beat me with his missile, even a godly j.hk will trade at the best cases apparently, generally I got beated. I can't uppercut or missile will beat me, I can try some psichich/lucky uppercuts but I don't have the damage of o.sagat. The missile also dodge low fireballs but if I fire high I can suffer the slide (or a j.hk). if I keep blocking I still suffer block damage from missile, I might win a throw but it would be teched/ready to suffer some close range dictator shenanigans (lk/throws), sometimes at corner the c.hk doesnt work.

The only thing that seems to save me is pressure at corner with the godly s.lk but
generally playing defensely will bring me to defeat, I have a bit fear to fireball/move forward

Any hints? Shall I abuse some tiger knee game?
yo spinal long time no see mofo lol now i have to say thats sagat hardest match up in ST there is things you can do to bison but it depends on how good the bison player is if the bison play is top tier then basically your gonna lose

[ShinAkuma204]

You need O. Sagat to beat Dictator. New Sagat doesn't have the damage or speed.

[dogberry]

Bison is a hard match, but either Sagat can win.

Don't try to predict his headstomp/psycho fist. You really should only go after him in the air if you see him take off first. Use fireballs sparingly, high fireballs to keep him grounded if he's going for the stomp/psycho fist and low fireballs at near-close range (close enough that he can't jump on reaction) for chip damage.

This match is mostly about keeping Bison at a distance. At full range old Sagat is better at this fight because his FB speed will let him sneak a few low tigers here and there for chip damage, but mostly this fight is about watching how Bison moves in-close to start his poke/throw games and countering them. Things like jump back punches against his stomps, jump back kicks to counter scissors/torpedo are what helps sagat in this fight. If he begins to walk forward watch for his standing kicks. It's best to block them rather than trade with a low FB. If he walks forward to try and start kicking you you can try a jump-in. Bison has no 100% antiair so you can try using a jump-in combo to push him back out and get one or two ticks of chip damage.

Avoid letting Bison get within throw distance. Once he is in your face you are at a big disadvantage since he has the stand short tick throws and high damage combos which are hard to escape unless you time a reversal DP well. Hope that helps.

[SpinalBlood]

Thanks for the infos.

Yo critical fix your damn net for some nfba play

[fatboy]

There was a little bit of talk in the Wiki thread about New and Old Sagat.... I thought I would bump this for sake of discussion... and just to remind us it is here.

Again, just like the N.Ken thread, this is a great thread. I would hate for it to be forgotten about and lost to the depths of the forums.

[ramza]

any more details about dic vs o.sagat? I was randomly playing as o. sagat the other day and had a hell of a time against him. it felt like dictator can headstomp any tiger shot on reaction and punish me. and once he had a life lead I was completely stumped on what to do. also sagats jump fierce is not like in cvs2, the downward angle makes it still get stomped on. can he uppercut the stomp?

[Kyokuji]

N. Sagat's DP is fucking terrible. It has like no start-up invincibility (or is it just upper body invincibility?). I always see Yaya using it pretty well though. Which version has the most invincibility frames on it or all they all the same? I tried using all 3 and they all trade with late jump-ins instead of beating them.

It's got good horizontal range at least, I guess.

Is there anything at all that N. Sagat has on O. Sagat besides throw teching and super for chip and long distance jump punish? I only ask this because I'm interested in playing N. Sagat. You have to utilize his normals more often and plan your tiger shots more carefully. I find he's just more interesting to use in general, but the lack of a reliable late anti-air is turning me off him.

I don't know what Capcom thought N. Sagat had that O. Sagat didn't besides a fancy looking TU.

[fatboy]

Is there anything at all that N. Sagat has on O. Sagat besides throw teching and super for chip and long distance jump punish?

He has a cross up, Super (Duh!),and as you state the "awsome" new 5 Hit upper cut!

Have fun! LOL!

[Kyokuji]

Man, his TU is total shit. Unless you do it really late, it actually gets stuffed by most jump-ins.
Even if you do it late, it still only trades. I noticed Yaya had to resort to early tiger knees and jump back MP half the time, which is sad.

[orochizoolander]

Anyone else excited to play rebalanced sagat?

-fb recovery 4 frames slower then o.sagat and someone in the sthd thread said this is the same as ce sagat?
-super goes farther and always knocks down on hit
-forward crosses up (any new combos?)
-sirlin says fierce dp is singlehit like o.sagat but does that means jab and strong dp are multi hit? I hope to god not
-tigerknee now:dp: so we can walk forward into it and juggle another and it always knock down (didn't it already always knock down?)
-sirlin says he can't cancel second hit on st short or forward so does that mean he can cancel the first hit? but at least we know he can cancel st strong


So game play wise how will rebalanced sagat differ from o.sagat/n.sagat in st?

[Kyokuji]

First hit of his knee doesn't knock down, so if they're crouching, you can hit with it and they'll still be standing (figuratively). N. Sagat could always cancel the second first hit of short and forward.
There was nothing stopping you from walking forward into anyway; it's just easier now.

[Tiberious]

Man, his TU is total shit. Unless you do it really late, it actually gets stuffed by most jump-ins.
Even if you do it late, it still only trades. I noticed Yaya had to resort to early tiger knees and jump back MP half the time, which is sad.

Thing to do in a trade situation, especially from a light attack, is to get in and juggle with another Fierce TU. The timing's tricky, but you can salvage the rest of the damage and get some nice crowd reaction to boot.

Sagat gets the most juggle hits (4) out of the entire cast. In fact, this is the reason you can tack on another hit in the corner (the first TU hit doesn't knock down when the opponent's standing, and since the 2nd hit DOES, it only uses 3 of the juggling points).

[UltraDavid]

N. Sagat could always cancel the second first hit of short and forward.
I think you just mean the first hit.

Is N Sagat's uppercut worse than O Sagat's? Cause O Sagat's loses to jump-ins that hit him high and in the back too. I never play with/against N Sagat, so I don't know whether his uppercut is worse, but O Sagat's isn't awesome to begin with.

[ParryPerson.]

I think you just mean the first hit.

Is N Sagat's uppercut worse than O Sagat's? Cause O Sagat's loses to jump-ins that hit him high and in the back too. I never play with/against N Sagat, so I don't know whether his uppercut is worse, but O Sagat's isn't awesome to begin with.

Uh whut.

N.Sagats DP is multi hit, whereas O.Sagats does all the damage in one hit (and a lot of it). Where it loses in invulnerability it makes up for big time with damage.

[UltraDavid]

Heh I know it's multihit, I'm just not sure that the actual hitbox at the start is any worse. It wasn't great for O Sagat either.

[orochizoolander]

I think you just mean the first hit.

Is N Sagat's uppercut worse than O Sagat's? Cause O Sagat's loses to jump-ins that hit him high and in the back too. I never play with/against N Sagat, so I don't know whether his uppercut is worse, but O Sagat's isn't awesome to begin with.

It's a million times better then hf sagats dp which cleanly loses to blankas j jab and chuns j short and a host of other attacks so i'm not complaining:sweat:

[ShinAkuma204]

I think you just mean the first hit.

Is N Sagat's uppercut worse than O Sagat's? Cause O Sagat's loses to jump-ins that hit him high and in the back too. I never play with/against N Sagat, so I don't know whether his uppercut is worse, but O Sagat's isn't awesome to begin with.

I believe the hit boxes are the same.

BTW, O. Sagats uppercut won't lose out to jump ins if done as late as possible.

[SpinalBlood]

ST Sagat uppercut has still invulnerability frames, if you time it properly you would win

[ParryPerson.]

, if you time it properly you would win

Thanks for telling us how to win at every fighting game ever made.

[Kyokuji]

The invincibility frames on Sagat's TU are extremely short. You literally have to do it as late as humanly possible to avoid trading with people. For instance, it is actually possible to TU through certain fireballs, but I bet you only get it 1 out of every 10 tries. If you watch guys like Yaya, they just always go for the trade. If you see it coming early, jump back MP and s. RH are actually more reliable anti-airs.

[SpinalBlood]

Thanks for telling us how to win at every fighting game ever made.

I used wrong english words but post was at least related unlike your totally useless one

[ShinAkuma204]

The invincibility frames on Sagat's TU are extremely short. You literally have to do it as late as humanly possible to avoid trading with people. For instance, it is actually possible to TU through certain fireballs, but I bet you only get it 1 out of every 10 tries. If you watch guys like Yaya, they just always go for the trade. If you see it coming early, jump back MP and s. RH are actually more reliable anti-airs.

There is a technique to do it as late as possible, but it does take practice.

Like many other specials you can "load" the TU motion and wait a moment to hit the button. This way you can do the uppercut later without having to rush the motion.

Using such a technique over a long period of time it becomes second nature to TU as late as possible.

[orochizoolander]

I thought against most jump ins it's best to do tu very early and deep to cleanly beat out the attack.

[ShinAkuma204]

I thought against most jump ins it's best to do tu very early and deep to cleanly beat out the attack.

Late TU is best. Early TU can be snuffed by certain attacks.

If you train yourself to do a TU as late as possible you should do no worse than trade, which will be in your favor.

[Tiberious]

Thing to do in a trade situation, especially from a light attack, is to get in and juggle with another Fierce TU. The timing's tricky, but you can salvage the rest of the damage and get some nice crowd reaction to boot.


Not sure whether this should be an edit or not, but I saw this thread again, and decided to get video proof of the above, and I did. It can be viewed (with Mega-Shitty-Windows-Movie-Maker-Effects™) here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e15rmO7GMIc).

I personally have done this against both Fei Long and Chun Li, but don't know how much more of the cast this works on.

[Kyokuji]

Buffering the motion early is somewhat dangerous in a game with such a short buffer window. From what I remember, you have 5 frames to input the DP before it randomly turns into a fireball.

[ShinAkuma204]

Buffering the motion early is somewhat dangerous in a game with such a short buffer window. From what I remember, you have 5 frames to input the DP before it randomly turns into a fireball.

Thats where the practice part comes in.

Never said it was easy, but one can learn to do it.

Not sure whether this should be an edit or not, but I saw this thread again, and decided to get video proof of the above, and I did. It can be viewed (with Mega-Shitty-Windows-Movie-Maker-Effects™) here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e15rmO7GMIc).

I personally have done this against both Fei Long and Chun Li, but don't know how much more of the cast this works on.

How many times does Sagats TU hit? Is there any extra hits from the trade to the re-uppercut, or do you just get the rest of the hits you didn't have in?

[Tiberious]

In order:

5, and no.

You CAN squeeze 6 in off a grounded opponent, but it requires rather precise positioning near the corner, so you can throw a second one out. N.Sagat's Uppercut works as follows:

1. Flagged as Juggle, but non-knockdown.
2. Juggle, knockdown.
3-5. Juggle.

So, at the right distance from the corner, you can hit with another TU (trickiest), or get a lone Tiger Genocide hit.