N Ken Thread

[Golden_Gunman]

Post up all your Ken strats, match-up advice, combos, etc here. There's a lot of players who prefer to play O. Ken, so this thread is just for N.Ken.


Footsies

-- Crouching Mk
-- Crouching RH (can cancel into Hadoken)
-- Crouching MP. (Good priority)
-- Standing Roundhouse. (Ok not a footsie but very useful in footsies as has great range and pretty fast).

Throws
-- Knee Bash (Towards + MK) (See Knee Bash mixups)
-- Rolling throw (towards + roundhouse)
-- Shoulder Drop (towards + Mp)

Knee Bash is Ken's best throw but the shoulder drop can grab from slightly further away and the Rolling Throw can be useful to put your opponent where you want them.

Reversals
Jab Dragon Punch is Ken's best reversal, try drumming all three punch buttons to maximise chances of getting any sort of dragon punch on reversal. I tend to double-tap the jab as I prefer Jab DP for reversal attempts.

EDIT:
Fierce DP is one of the few moves in the game that hits on the first frame, meaning that in theory an opponent can never safe jump in on you. However, if they bait it out of you, your ass is toast on the way down.

Popular Mis-Conception: Shoryu-Reppa (Ken's super) is NOT a reversal. Even if you get a reversal message you can still be beaten when trying this as a reversal attempt.

EDIT: (Thanks jchensor)
Actually, this is not technically true. The reason ShoRyuReppa is "not" a Reversal is because the game won't LET it be one. There is a glitch that if you manage to pull of a True Reversal with the ShoRyuReppa, the game freaks out and, instead, makes you do the previous special move you did. That's how those Combo Videos make Ken do those really low Hurricane Kicks to the floor for one hit right when he gets up, by getting hit out of an Air Hurricane Kick and then doing a Reversal Super. Instead of ShoRyuReppa coming out, you get the one hit Air Hurricane Kick instead.

DOUBLE EDIT:
But if you play AE (the arcade I play at removed ST and put in AE), then ShoryuReppa can be used as a reversal and it's pretty damn good for this use.

Anti Air's

- Dragon Punch (duh)
- Crouching Fierce (aka the Mexican Uppercut), good if you don't think you can get out a dragon in time, Also has quite a high hit box, so you can hit with just the tip of the uppercut.
- Standing Mk. Not great but has some uses.
- Standing MP. Underrated move in my opinion, beats a suprising amount of stuff clean and can connect at a ranges where sometimes a Dragon can miss.
- Far standing Fierce. Similar to MP, if anyhting, has more priority than MP but way slower.
- Close Fierce. Good priority and good as a last resort anti-air.
- Close MK.
- HCF + K. Kind of like Ryu's standing Roundhouse.
- Ken's other funky kicks (DP motion plus Kick, QCF + K).
- Super.

Air - to - Air's

-- Air hurricane kick.
-- Jumping Roundhouse.
-- Jumping Jab (comes out really early).
-- Jumping Fierce.
-- Air throw (In air, towards+mk)
-- Jump straight up Roundhouse


Connecting Shoryu-Reppa from Cr.short X 2 (Hit Confirm)

One always asked question about N.Ken, is how do you connect the Shoryu-Reppa off two crouching shorts? It's a link, and you do it by kara-ing a jab with a short for the super. So you would do crouching short, crouching short, QCF X2, jab + short. The timing for this is the same as if you would connect three crouching shorts on an opponent. At first it's pretty tricky, but this method works for me at least. One tip I would give is to let go off the buttons very quckly before doing the QCF's as if you keep them held down too long, you can end up negative edging and getting Ken's funky kick to come out instead of the Super.

You can also connect the Shoryu-Reppa from crouching MK and a jumping HP, and both of these can be pretty useful.

Connecting Jump Jab to Hurricane.
This is another tricky piece of execution with Ken. You can combo his jumping jab into any hurricane kick (HK is best). This is particularly good after a Knee Bash. The best way to do it is to do a QCB and then at back press jab followed by HK very quickly. (Or do the Jab at down-back).

Juice Kick:
Ken's air hurricance in ST is really nasty, there are several different variations of them. One of the best is known as the "Juice Kick." This is when you do a air hurricane almost immeadiately after jumping towards the opponent. If you do it right, Ken's arc of his hurricane kick will be REALLY low to the ground. This almost has the effect of a Dhalsim stlye teleport, but you hit at the same time! This is really good agaisnt Sagat, if you sense he is going to throw a Low Tiger, you can Juice Kick him and connect with his limbs before he recovers!


Basic Game Plan
With N Ken you really are aiming to just score a knock down. Zone the opponent with Hadoken's and anti -air if they jump-in, and use footsies to keep them away. I would always cancel into a fireball or funky kick after a crouching MK or RH for safety. Get closer to the opponent in between hadokens with Back + Roundhouse, a funky kick or even a short hurricane. It can often be advantageous to dragon punch through an opponent's fireball, to both build meter and gain ground. If you can charge Ken's super up quickly, he becomes a big threat as there are a number of ways to engineer an opening to land this.

You can also go for a jump-in attempt (although don't spam this as you ass will be handed to you). Ken can cross up with Jumping MK, or you can go for a tick throw by clipping the very edge of the opponent's hit box with a jumping RH or jumping short. Also don't be afraid to use a air hurricane to cross up your opponent so you hit on the other side, and then vary this by htiing them the next time on the side facing you. Ken can also use an early jumping jab to jump-in. This is a really funky move as it changes Ken's trajectory in the air somewhat, making for a slightly different arc to his jumping kick moves. You can then combo in the air into a hurricane (and if you connect, finish with a sweep on landing for a good 3 hit combo), or it will keep you safe to then go for throw, tick, zone, whatever. You can also go for a Jumping Fierce which stuffs a lot of air-to-air moves out because of it's immense priority, or if you connect with it deep enough, you can link a super from it on landing. Keep your opponent guessing as to whether you will cross them up, or hit them regularly, and keep them guessing if you will hit deep or high. As stupid as it sounds, sometimes just jumping straight up can bait an opponent into throwing a DP style move if you have conditioned them to expect a jump in, and you can counter appropriately.

If you can score a knock down, then you can setup Ken's wicked ambiguous jump-in games as the opponent is getting up. Because Ken's Cross Up Mk is such a great move, and because he has plenty of other moves to back him up, he is a tremendous threat if he can jump in. You can often safe jump-in with jumping short, or if you think your opponent will expect this, you can go for the cross-up. After this you have a massive list of options you can go for:

- tick throw
- short, short super
- overhead funky kick
- dragon punch (to beat a tech throw attempt)
- throw
- crouching mk XX hadoken / dragon / funky kick

This can ineveitably lead to landing a Knee Bash (towards + MK), which in can turn lead to an all manner of nastiness.

On knock-down you can also go fora tick throw, or to just keep the pressure on the opponent by timing a fireball to hit them as they are waking up.

Knee Bash Mix-Ups:

Jesus this is one nasty mofo of a throw. Not only does it do good damage, it offers you the chance to mixup and go for somethign else afterwards. I'll leave the pro's to come in and digress all the options you can go for, but here are some starters:

-- Walk up, cr. short X 2, hit confirm to super.
-- Walk underneath the opponent, combo. (I would go for standing HP xx Jab dragon as you recover quickly in case the opponent blocked).
-- Jump in Jab XX Hurricane. When you land you get another mixup, you can go for knee bash, dragon punch, tick throw, cr.mk into dragon, sweep XX fireball. Loads of
stuff.
-- Tick throw (e.g. crouching short into knee bash)
-- Jab Dragon (If you think opponent will try to tech out of what they think is another Knee Bash)
-- Nothing at all (If you have conditioned them with a lot of follow up tick throws, they may well try to reversal, so do nothing, waith for them to land from their reversal move and then combo them).
-- Jump over cross-up MK.
-- Crouching Mk / Sweep into fireball.
-- Walk underneath, crouching MK / Sweep into fireball.

Fireball Trap
On top of this Ken also has the classic Fireball trap, although in comparison to Sagat and Ryu, Ken's version is week. At the right ranges, if you throw a jab fireball and it is blocked, then you can throw a fierce fireball for free which the opponent will have no choice but to block. The jab fireball also travels pretty slowly, allowing you to advance towards the opponent. If they jump over your fireball, anti - air them with one of your anti-air's, or if they are jumping from far away, Sweep them as they land, cancelling into a fireball in case they land safely. Mix-up your fireballs when applying pressure from afar and be wary of Ken's recovery on his Fierce fireball, you asking to be jumped in at if you throw this at the wrong time. Be wary when fighting characters like Guile, Sagat and Ryu, whose faster travelling projectiles will wear you down gradually in a fireball war.

Of course I am sure that anyone who has ever played any SF2 game is well aware of the intricacies of the Fireball trap, so I won't expand on it any further here.

Psychic Dragon Punches
Ken's DP is one of the best moves IMO in ST. It comes so quickly, has mad priority and recovers really fucking fast. Only O. Ken has a better DP style move in this game. You can therefore exploit the assests of the DP to use "Psychic" style tactics to beat pokes and throw attempts to really head-fuck your opponent. The use of Psyhic DP's is matchup-dependant, but you can DP through Dhalsim's long limbs, a Shoto's sweep, you can clip an opponent throwing a fireball on start up and pass through the fireball or trade. Again AI won't expand on this, but take a look at any high-level N Ken player (particularly Japanese players Ani-Ken and M.Tsun) and you will see lots of uses of this technique.

Funky Kick / Wacky Kick Ground Cross-Up Trick
If you are pretty much on top of your opponent as they are getting up, if you do a QCF + K, you can sometimes cross up the opponent on the ground and end up on the other side of them. As far as I am aware it does not work al all characters. Perhaps someone else can clarify how this trick is done consistently.

Combos
- Cross-up MK, crouching stong XX RH Hurricane Kick. Good damage and good chance of dizzying and works on all characters.
- Short, short XX super.
- Jump in Jab XX RH Hurricane, Sweep XX Fireball / Hurricane. Good 3 - hit combo of a jump-in jab, typically after a knee-bash. The fireball / hurricnae at the end won't connect but can be used for safety / following up.
-- More to add later.


Yoga Book Hyper Translations - Courtesy of NKI
TECH.02 - You should master the walking DP
"Equally as important as well-timed fireballs is the walking DP. That is, walking towards the opponent, and when you get close, doing a Jab DP. If the opponent sticks out a move to try to stop you from walking forward, not only will pretty much every move will lose to the DP, but they also get knocked down, so you can continue to pressure them as they get up. Of course if you whiff the DP, the opponent can punish it, but because they'll be scared of that DP, it's pretty easy to close the gap just by walking towards them. You want to keep the pressure on the opponent."

TECH.03 - Safe jump Jab after knee bash throw
"If you jump immediately after the knee bash throw, it can be a safe jump depending on who your opponent is. It is extremely useful against Ryu, Boxer and DeeJay, so you definitely want to use it against them. All you have to do is hold up/towards as the throw is finishing. As soon as you're air-born, hit Jab, and it will be a meaty on the landing opponent."
Note from NKI: It's only a safe jump against Boxer, and DeeJay's Forward and RH upkicks. (DeeJay can hit Ken with reversal Short upkicks, but not Forward or RH.)

[N-Ken]

Fuck strat forum gurus, Im top tier bitches.

[jchensor]

Popular Mis-Conception: Shoryu-Reppa (Ken's super) is NOT a reversal. Even if you get a reversal message you can still be beaten when trying this as a reversal attempt.

Actually, this is not technically true. The reason ShoRyuReppa is "not" a Reversal is because the game won't LET it be one. There is a glitch that if you manage to pull of a True Reversal with the ShoRyuReppa, the game freaks out and, instead, makes you do the previous special move you did. That's how those Combo Videos make Ken do those really low Hurricane Kicks to the floor for one hit right when he gets up, by getting hit out of an Air Hurricane Kick and then doing a Reversal Super. Instead of ShoRyuReppa coming out, you get the one hit Air Hurricane Kick instead.

- James

[margalis]

What if the last special you did was a super?

I don't really understand how they make these sorts of programming mistakes. I mean why does the engine even bother remembering the last move you did?

[Golden_Gunman]

Jchensor, thanks, I did not know that. But how come then when you do a Shoryu Reppa on reversal and the reversal message prints out, the Shoryu Reppa animation still plays? Is the game "lieing" to the player? Anyway that's pretty fucking crazy either way.

On another note, anyone want to post up some practical Ken combos and advice?

[RWD]

Keep the goodness coming - i've been playing Honda seriously for near 2 years, was looking to learn another character and choose N. Ken... I need all the help I can get. >_>

[Spirited_Away]

Yeah Reversal Super bug makes you do last special move, but weirdly I managed to get the low 1-hit Air hurricane with O.Ken too and that version has no super ?! more ST weirdness people !!

[Hol Horse]

Jchensor, thanks, I did not know that. But how come then when you do a Shoryu Reppa on reversal and the reversal message prints out, the Shoryu Reppa animation still plays? Is the game "lieing" to the player?

I suppose you're playing AE and not ST. They fixed that no reversal super bug in AE.

[Golden_Gunman]

So just out of interest, does it work as a "true" reversal in AE? It's not really important seeing as this is a ST thread, but it would be strange if they fixed it.

[Hol Horse]

Yes, it works as a true reversal. They fixed a lot of stuff in AE, the more you play it the more you realize it's different from ST even w/o the old characters.

[NKI]

What if the last special you did was a super?Then you can actually do reversal super.

[Ryu1999]

Then you can actually do reversal super.

Except....how would you have built the meter to get the 2nd super :looney:

[Hol Horse]

Except....how would you have built the meter to get the 2nd super :looney:

blocked/hitting normals. Not really practical, I suppose :rofl:

[polarity]

Isn't Ken's Strong DP the only one (as well as one of the few moves in the game) that can't be safe jump-ined? Seems like it'd be a better reversal against jump-ins than the Jab version for that reason.

[jchensor]

Most safe jumps occur against a person on the ground. I don't think any of Ken's DP would make a difference in that case. The only way it can counter a safe-jump is if hit on the very first frame of the attack. I don't think any of the three do (I can check the YogaGuide again to be sure). Thus, as long a move has some frames before actually hitting, you will always be able to safe-jump it, even if it is really hard to time properly.

- James
http://jchensor.blogspot.com

[Professor Jones]

The only way it can counter a safe-jump is if hit on the very first frame of the attack. I don't think any of the three do

According to the Yoga Hyper book, Ken's feirce DP comes out instantly : the very first frame is a hitting frame. So yeah, it's not possible to do a safe jump-in against a Ken who does a feirce DP on wake up.

[jchensor]

Well, crikey! You're absolutely right. Awesome!! Good to know! ^_^

- James
http://jchensor.blogspot.com

[Golden_Gunman]

Ok thanks to LM Akira at www.NeoEmpire.com , here are some translations from the Yoga Book Hyper:

1. START OF ROUND SUGGESTIONS

i. HP fireball
ii.
iii. Wait to see what opponent does
iv. ... to...

a) Crouching HK > LP fireball
b) MK throw or LP dragon punch

2. CHARGING SUPER BAR

i. LP dragon punch
ii. Air hurricane kick

3. STRATEGY/TECHNIQUE/BLOCK STRINGS

i. Fireball (blocked) to...

a) (walk up?) Crouching HK > fireball

b) MK throw

c) (walk up?) LP dragon punch

ii. Cross up MK > crouching LK x 1-3 to...

a) Crouching HK > fireball

b) MK throw

c) LP dragon punch

iii. Crouching MK > crouching HK > LP or HP fireball

4. BEST COMBOS

i. Jumping HK > close standing HP > LP dragon punch

5. BEST WAY TO AVOID PROJECTILES

i. LP or HP fireball
ii. Vertical jump
iii. Block
iv. LP dragon punch (invincible frames on start up and hit, vunerable only in recovery)
v. Hurricane kick (use invincble leg to travel over sonic booms and grand tiger shots)

6. BEST REVERSALS

i. LP dragon punch (note in "true" arcade ST, Ken can't use his super as a reversal. If you time his super correctly as a reversal you'll get the last special move you did. In PS1, SS and DC versions as well as HSF2:AE this glitch is fixed)

7. BEST ANTI AIR

i. LP dragon punch (ground to air)
ii. HP dragon punch (ground to air, 3 hits and travels up on steep diagonal)
iii. Crouching HK (ground to air, close/medium distance)
iv. Vertical jump HK (air to air)
v. Close standing HP (ground to air, close distance)
vi. Crouching HP (ground to air, close/medium distance)
vii. Far standing MP or far standing HP (ground to air, medium distance)
viii. Crouching MP (ground to air, close distance)

8. BEST CROSS UP

i. Jumping MK
ii. HK air hurricane kick (may land 1 or 2 hits, if you jump over the middle of your opponent you can perform this as qcf+K)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now some of this information may well be mistranslated. For example, that suggested "best combo" won't actually connect. But it's nice to see the rest of the stuff none the less.

BTW, it would be cool if we could make a list of practical combos. Here is a decent Ken Cross up combo:

Cross up MK, Cr.mk, QCF + MK (Hold MK for 2nd hit), Sweep.

I have to say that this combo sometimes causes me problems, the enemy seems to escape the 2nd hit of the QCF + MK. If someone could tell me what I am doing wrong, it would be appreciated.

[ShinVega]

Golden Gunman: to answer your question, don't hold FK for more than 2 frames (the cpu negative edges it so it thinks you input a kick again).

Ken's "funky" Kicks:
1. HCF + K Roundhouse, great anti-air, high priority, creates distance btwn opp.

2. F-DF-D + K Outside Crescent (actual name), good combo finisher

3. QCF + K Inside Crescent, same properties as #2

Note: if you hold the kick button for too long the kick (1,2, or 3) will "cancel" into ax kick motion. This is useful if you are using anti-air with #1 and mis-time; you can hold it and gain a couple extra frames.

As of now the Air Hurricane (AH) trajectory chart hasn't been translated so I'm going to attempt to explain how the A.H. system works. The system is based off the height of your jump when you execute the AH.

1. AH b/f or after peak of your jump in either diagonal direction. Mathematically the engine tells the cpu to use the tangent of the parabola at the time you execute AH (tangent of a parabola is a straight line) and then "carries" the parabolic curve in the tangents slope.*

2. AH right at moment of leaving ground in diagonal direction. This is the "Juice kick" it requires very fast input of AH in the first few frames of the jump (this requires practice to be able to pull off 100% of the time).

3. AH striaght up (cpu still treats this as a parabola) if you input @ peak it will revert to part 1. If you input immediately after leaving ground it will juice kick in short distance. If you input in middle of jump it will shoot you up high.

AH connects up to 3 times on large/tall opp. and 2 others.
AH can be used in combos.
AH can be used at anytime after a air normal has connected (any normal it doesn't matter).
AH can be used as a cross up.
Jump straight up RK (right after leaving ground) into AH. This setup allows you to get a 2 hit combo and brings you back down quickly while still spinning. Pretty good trick for mix-up game.

* note: this is the best way I can explain how the jumps work, it requires mathematical knowledge that can be found on wiki (look for derivative). If anyone sees something wrong or that could be added let me know.

N. Ken is a fast, flashy, offensive character. Being mainly offensive you have a lot of options as to mix ups, combos, set ups, and traps. Being able to lock down your opp. making them constantly guess is vital to your success. Juice kicks are a must if you're going to use ken (imo it's almost as useful as a teleport due to the speed). Being patient is the key to ken's speed, this allows you to react quickly to an opponents attack. Being able to perform all combos on command is very important to ken's game (messing up a combo can lead to death very quickly so use them wisely).

Know your opp. i.e. if you're playing against other shoto-like characters use AH sparingly (I'd say never attempt anything except juice kicks unless you're trying to escape then use a "reverse" juice kick), use c.FK, and c.short in diff. combinations with the crescent kicks. Use RH(special) when they attempt jump ins (you must be quick, use immediately after they leave the ground). If a character throws a hadouken and your close use a crescent kick and hold (this will cause you to be "behind" the fireball) if timed right you'll hit them with the ax kick. Use Ken's s.RK (has great range) to advance and cause a considerable amount of damage. Ken's F DP is the best for damage but if missed leaves you wide open. Use fireball's to get the opp. to jump in; here you can either DP, juice kick or wait and as they land use RK. Use Jab DP on wake up. Be very careful when deciding to jump in on shotos (use the juice kick to jump in).
Note: for O.sagat juice kicks are your best friend, watch for tiger knees on opp. wake up.

If you're playing against throw characters (gief t.hawk) keep them grounded with a mix up of hadoukens. For gief stick with kara canceling jab into hadouken (this enables faster recovery) in case he uses his banashing punch. You can also use c.FK, and s.RH to keep them at bay. Watch very carefully for tick throws on wake up (there's no gaurantee they'll do one and if you use a DP reversal they'll punish you severly) in general they probably won't use one on a shoto character. Not letting them within close range is vital to winning the match. Use a RK Hurricane kick to help create distance and counter opp. s.normals. If they get to close use a AH to get away safely (if in corner use jumping short or foward as anti-air then DP as you land then poke with c.FK if needed; c.RK can also be used). T.Hawk has a DP move himself so be conscience about it "the hawk" is suppceptable to most anti-air attacks except juice kicks.

I'll add charge characters later.

Combos:
Cross up FK, s.FP, DP+FP, '4 hits' Instant Dizzy!!! Must be VERY meaty FK!
Jump in F, AH, c.RK 3 hits
Jump up RK, AH, c.Rk 3 hits
Jump in RK, s.FP, super
Jump in F, AH, c.Short, inside crescent RK 5 hits
Cross up FK, c.MP, Super 7 hits
Jump in F, Ah, c. short, Super 8 hits
Cross up AH, c.FK, Super 8 Hits
Juice Kick, c.Jab/short, super 7~8 hits
Cross up AH, c.MK, inside crescent RK 5 hits
Jump in F, s.F, F DP 4~5 hits (sometimes connects all sometimes not)
Jump in FP, s.FP, super 7 hits
c.Jab *2, st. Jab, super 8 hits
c.short *3, super 8 hits
Juice kick, st.FP, F DP 5~6 hits
c.jab *2, s.jab, DP+JP, 4 hits

[Footsy Bebop]

what's the joystick motion for standing fierce into super with N Ken?

[ShinVega]

Sorry, the combo should read as: Cross up AH, c.FK, Super 8 hits

[Footsy Bebop]

ok, how do you not get a fireball to come out instead?

[ShinVega]

Timing is the key.
Ex. c.Jab, DF + .Jab, F, Jab, D, DF + P 8 hits (21300 pts)I'm SURE it's possible now.
I'm sorry for the confusion but I had to be sure.
I'm using AE training mode, Gief as dummy.
The timing is similar to that of dic's 10 hit combos.
Jump in FP, st.FP, Super 22500 pts. Pretty easy once you get the timing down.

[jaminbenjamin]

I think you can do a similar "cheat" that Ryu can use to do his super, though both of these have to start with a jumping attack, not from the ground.

Jump at your opponent, do a fireball motion as you hit them with a punch (fierce) in the air, then after you land do a standing fierce followed by a fireball. Tada, standing fierce into super.

Alternatively, you can just do a standing fierce, then crank out the super motion quickly, and you can probably get it to land, but you need some skills for that.

[NKI]

what's the joystick motion for standing fierce into super with N Ken?D, D/F, F, slight pause, neutral+Fierce, D, D/F+punch.

It's actually not that hard. The trick to it is getting that pause just right. Pause too short and you'll get a fireball; pause too long and you won't be able to do the super. Gotta get it just right.

Ryu's st.Fierce xx super is a lot harder for some reason, despite the fact that it's only one input longer than Ken's. (Ryu has to follow through all the way to towards on the second QCF. Ken can stop at D/F.)

[ShinVega]

Ryu's combo : (c.opp.) Cross up RK, f + FP, st. FP, super; is pretty easy. For some reason getting the timing down for ken's jump in fp, st.FP, super took me longer to learn. Hmm...I still don't understand why?

[Golden_Gunman]

Good stuff. So how do you kara cancel jab into a hadoken, and can you kara cancel the jab into any speed hadoken, or just jab hadoken?

[ShinVega]

Good stuff. So how do you kara cancel jab into a hadoken, and can you kara cancel the jab into any speed hadoken, or just jab hadoken?

You can cancel any speed hadouken with short or jab which shortens the revovery time. Dn, dn + twds + jab/short, twds + P

[Golden_Gunman]

^^ Thanks, great information BTW. Does this mean that if you throw a kara cancelled jab hadoken from full screen against ST Ryu and he throws a Shinkuu haodken in anticipation, that you can now block the super? One of the hardest things for me during a Ryu vs Ken matchup is that he bosses the fireball war, and when he gets super, you cannot throw a fireball period because otherwsie he supers you for free.

[BKB]

It will shorten the fireball by a couple frames. It will help a little teeny tiny bit from fullscreen, but... naw, you're pretty much screwed.

[ShinVega]

Who's the number 1 N.ken player? I would like to see some match vids. Thanks

[Sanjuro_The_Ronin]

I was wondering what N.Ken's bad and good match-ups were. If anybody could help me with this I would appreciate it alot. Thanks.

[Sanjuro_The_Ronin]

Thanks for moving my thread to this one, this is good stuff here. I would say that the no.1 n.Ken player in the world would be Ani-Ken. If anybody would like to correct me on this then please do but ive seen match vids of his and he is amazing with him.

[Golden_Gunman]

Another really good Ken player is M-tsun, the purple Ken player. I really like his style, even more fun to watch than Aniken, although I agree that Aniken is probably the better player.

As for hard match=ups, I find the greatest difficutly against Ryu and Sagat. These guys dominate the fireball war and in certain respects it's case of "anything you can do, they can do better." Ryu can be really dangerous as when he has super, even if he is full screen, if you throw a fireball, on reaction he can throw his and get you.

Good matchups? IMO Dictator is a good match-up, his lack of reversal (barring super) means that if you knock him down, you can jump in for free and set up Knee Bash mindgames. He also does not a particulary strong anti-sir, even his Jumping MP can easily beaten with a Air Hurricane.

[ShinVega]

Thanks for the player names (now I know what vids to start watching).

Does anyone know if it's possible to connect c.Foward, Outside Crescent (F,D/F,D+K), Shoryureppa (7 hits). I can connect it all and the frame data for ken's outside crescent kick confirm that it's possible (there are 8 non hitting frames at end of the special kick). I tried for an hour last night trying to start the special at the right time to super.

[ShinVega]

A really good method for getting in on opp. is to use the fireball, tatsumaki. I've always had a hard time getting in on sim and sagat. A great method for sim is to throw a fierce firball and follow up with a short tatsumaki. You can continue this and mix it up with jab srk's. For sagat the main thing is to not jump in b/c of his excellent anti-air attacks. You can use the same method for him except use the short tatsumaki's to float over low tiger shots and then use jab srk's to float through high tiger shots. Juice kicks are useful if used sparringly against sagat. Always use c.foward into inside crescent kicks to play mix up games. This has helped me out tremendously and I hope it helps others.

[fatboy]

Bump.. This is such a great thread, I was searching on how to combo kens super and found it. I remeber reading it almost a year ago.

I wanted to bump it, so those surfing the forum can be reminded of its 'bad-ass-ness,' and not let it be lost the the depths of the forums....

It is a must for ppl wanting to learn how to play Ken.

[Golden_Gunman]

Seeing as you were kind enough to bump the thread, I'll add a few more things to this thread. If anyone else wants to contribute, please do so!

Knockdown cross-up trick. I have seen M.Tsun on knocking the enemy down doing a juice kick as the opponent is getting up. If you do it right, it crosses up the opponent, hits them meaty to keep you safe and allows you to press home the advantage. It's a neat trick because if your opponent goes for a reversal, his controls get switched, and because of the way the hurricae comes out, even if they input the reversal the correct way, they still have a large chance of messing it up. If you do this a few times, then you can alternate it by doing the hurricane early so you dont' cross up. Of course the hard thing is to actually do the Juice Kick, but it's a nice trick either way.

One other thing, my preffered combo when jumping over a fireball is Hard Punch X RH Hurricane, and Sweep on landing. It's three hits, knocks down, and is very easy to land, unlike the jump in HP, stand HP, Jab Dragon, which can be hard to land on some characters (e.g. Ryu).

[Sanjuro_The_Ronin]

Seeing as you were kind enough to bump the thread, I'll add a few more things to this thread. If anyone else wants to contribute, please do so!

Knockdown cross-up trick. I have seen M.Tsun on knocking the enemy down doing a juice kick as the opponent is getting up. If you do it right, it crosses up the opponent, hits them meaty to keep you safe and allows you to press home the advantage. It's a neat trick because if your opponent goes for a reversal, his controls get switched, and because of the way the hurricae comes out, even if they input the reversal the correct way, they still have a large chance of messing it up. If you do this a few times, then you can alternate it by doing the hurricane early so you dont' cross up. Of course the hard thing is to actually do the Juice Kick, but it's a nice trick either way.

One other thing, my preffered combo when jumping over a fireball is Hard Punch X RH Hurricane, and Sweep on landing. It's three hits, knocks down, and is very easy to land, unlike the jump in HP, stand HP, Jab Dragon, which can be hard to land on some characters (e.g. Ryu).

Once again Golden-Gunman you do deliver. What are your personal feelings about Fierce x RH hurricane, and knee bash when landing? Also what about juice kick then right when you land shoryu-reppa?

[Golden_Gunman]

I could see why you would want to go for the Knee Bash in that situation, but I would use the sweep. This is purely as a punishment combo, and so I would choose to do damage and get the knockdown, allowing me to throw a Jab Hadou to move forward and dictate the pace of the match. I tend to try to land the Knee Bash after a knock down, using meaty jump jab XX hurricane, and then varying between knee bash, short X2 to super or a dragon. But it's personal prefference really.

As for Juice Kick then Shoryu Reppa, do you mean using the Juice kick as a cross-up or to evade a fireball? As a cross-up I would say no, you should always do short X 2 first to confirm it. However in other situations, like as I said to evade a fireball, then maybe, as your opponent may expect a Knee Bash. Still I think it's safer to use a Dragon instead and save the Super for when you know you can connect it guaranteed.

Oh yeah I just thought of one other M.Tsun trick. If often does cr,short, stand short X jab dragon. You can use that as a hit confirm when you don't have Super. Just be careful because quite often the funky kick comes out by mistake.

[fatboy]

Seeing as you were kind enough to bump the thread, I'll add a few more things to this thread.

Yeah please, do this is a great KEN thread. I am open to spread the Ken love.

[ShinVega]

Sanjuro_The_Ronin
I know you asked Golden Gunman but I figured I'd give my 2 cents.

If you're opp. throws a fireball, juice kick over it (use RH juice kick), connect with c.Strong xx Shoryu-Reppa. This is pretty easy to connect; even if they block the juice kick you can push them back with c.strong, c.foward, c.RH, hadouken. Of course you wouldn't want to use this on characters with a fast recovery. I really like to use this against Sagat (O.Sagat has fast recovery so I don't use it against him).

Remember to only use the juice kick sparingly, unless you're certain you have near perfect execution (comes out 19/20 times).

I've changed up my overall game plan once again in order to master Ken in a different way. Instead of basing my game around mix-ups, knee bash, and rush down tactics. I'm learning how to play defensively with Ken (in casual matches, not strictly playing to win); this has actually helped my offense because it allows me to see opportunities for attack that I had not previously seen i.e. I was too busy contemplating what the other player's options were before; and now I wait and see. Thought that might broaden some horizons.

[kev_the_bev]

why do a lot of people prefer O. Ken?

[fatboy]

why do a lot of people prefer O. Ken?

Better DP (more invincible frames
Better Fireballs (beter speeds, faster recovery)
No crazy kicks. (no "oops" shit I did not mean to do that....)

He plays more into the traditional fire ball trap game the N.ken...

I would not say he better (maybe a little worse) then N.Ken..But really, just different.

.Fatboy

[ShinAkuma204]

Do the Super Turbo versions of the dragon bros even have invincibility frames on their dragons?

I was under the impression that their dragons were just really high priority. (like Sagats TU)

[Sanjuro_The_Ronin]

Do the Super Turbo versions of the dragon bros even have invincibility frames on their dragons?

I was under the impression that their dragons were just really high priority. (like Sagats TU)

Both Ken and Ryu have invincibility frames on their jab DPs, hence why you see so many people using their jab DPs to let fireballs pass right through them.

[ShinAkuma204]

Both Ken and Ryu have invincibility frames on their jab DPs, hence why you see so many people using their jab DPs to let fireballs pass right through them.

Is it confirmed anywhere they are invincible on their DP's? I ask because I know they can be kicked out of those DP's during the same points at which they can also pass through FB's.

[Sanjuro_The_Ronin]

Is it confirmed anywhere they are invincible on their DP's? I ask because I know they can be kicked out of those DP's during the same points at which they can also pass through FB's.

While i'm not 100% about this but I think the information is confirmed in the YBH or on T.Akiba's page. If anyone who knows this stuff better then me can correct this then please do.

[ShinAkuma204]

While i'm not 100% about this but I think the information is confirmed in the YBH or on T.Akiba's page. If anyone who knows this stuff better then me can correct this then please do.

Maybe invincibility frames on new characters work different?

For example if you put O Ken DP against new Ken DP O Ken wins clean, (no riding out period) as if N Ken had no invincibility. That leads me to believe N Ken doesn't actually have invincibility. (or perhaps he has a small amount of start up invincibility but after start up the move is just really high priority?)

[ShinVega]

Maybe invincibility frames on new characters work different?

For example if you put O Ken DP against new Ken DP O Ken wins clean, (no riding out period) as if N Ken had no invincibility. That leads me to believe N Ken doesn't actually have invincibility. (or perhaps he has a small amount of start up invincibility but after start up the move is just really high priority?)

Y.B.H. pgs. 8, and 14 Ryu has 8 frames of invincibility for Jab DP, as does Ken. These frames are complete invincibility frames i.e. nothing can hurt you. There's an additional 10 frames of invincibility but some moves will still hurt you (hit boxes). O. Ken might have more invincibility frames than N. Ken causing what you described.

Hope this Helps.

[ShinAkuma204]

Y.B.H. pgs. 8, and 14 Ryu has 8 frames of invincibility for Jab DP, as does Ken. These frames are complete invincibility frames i.e. nothing can hurt you. There's an additional 10 frames of invincibility but some moves will still hurt you (hit boxes). O. Ken might have more invincibility frames than N. Ken causing what you described.

Hope this Helps.

That makes sense. A DP doesn't hit for 6 frames correct? So essentially new DP's are invincible for the startup where the old DP's where invincible for the entirety of the ascent.

[ShinVega]

I haven't found any data containing the precise number of Consecutive hits in a mult-hit throw for each character. Here's what I've done:
N. Ken Knee Bash 12 hits avg. of 10 hits each time.
Gief Stomach Crunch 9 hits; face crush 11 hits
Blanka face bite 12 hits
Boxer Headbutt 10 hits

That's all I've tried and I'm wondering if a limit exists. This was tried on AE on dummy (opp. for each was Guile).

The timing for the throws is the same for all characters. The most effective way is to focus on tapping back, foward as quickly as possible and focus on pressing short, foward, RH in that order as fast as possible. I found this technique works for me. I didn't find the answer to this question anywhere including the YBH (although I can't be 100% sure b/c I cannot read Japanese). I've even held the CPU in holds for up to 9-12 hits. It's easy once you get the timing down.

I also understand that a Human Opp. will try and counter; it doesn't have much of an effect unless they also know the proper timing.

If anyone knows the exact limits please post for each character.

[caliagent#3]

I also understand that a Human Opp. will try and counter; it doesn't have much of an effect unless they also know the proper timing.

If anyone knows the exact limits please post for each character.

You mean counter mash the throw?? I just wiggle left to right and piano hk,hp,mp,lp,lk or hp,mp,lp depending on how my hand is positioned when i'm in a multi hit throw and i usually shake out in 2-3 hits.

[Mariodood]

Hey, I'm just getting into ST, playing N.Ken because Knee Bash is awesome.

I'm having trouble doing his hit confirm (shortshortsuper) I know the command, there was even one day when I had it down, but now I can't do it..I dunno, I just do short short nothing. What's the timing for cancelling into the super?

Oh and about the Knee Bash..I was watching Mattsun, and after a knee bash, he seems to always do jumping short. I know that that's a good tick into knee bash, so my questions..

What's a better tick, jumping short, walkup kneebash, or jumping short, crouching short, walkup kneebash?

What else can you do with a jumping short?

And finally, how easy is it to get out of kneebash ticks? Do you need to do reversal DP/counter throw or is it easier than that?

Thanks in advance.

[JoeMasters]

Hey, I'm just getting into ST, playing N.Ken because Knee Bash is awesome.

I'm having trouble doing his hit confirm (shortshortsuper) I know the command, there was even one day when I had it down, but now I can't do it..I dunno, I just do short short nothing. What's the timing for cancelling into the super?

Oh and about the Knee Bash..I was watching Mattsun, and after a knee bash, he seems to always do jumping short. I know that that's a good tick into knee bash, so my questions..

What's a better tick, jumping short, walkup kneebash, or jumping short, crouching short, walkup kneebash?

What else can you do with a jumping short?

And finally, how easy is it to get out of kneebash ticks? Do you need to do reversal DP/counter throw or is it easier than that?

Thanks in advance.

For the super link question, are you whiffing jab?

I never really use jumping short, I use jumping jab so you gotta ask others about that.

I think it is all DP/CT but someone has to back me up on it. Im not a 100%

[Golden_Gunman]

Reversal move / throw is the only way to get out of any good tick throw setup in ST period. That's why Knee Bash is so good, it's often quite possible to win the round after landing one knee bash if you can mix-up well enough after it.

Although you could always counter the tick as opposed to the throw if you think it's coming.

[Footsy Bebop]

How about N Ken's air hurricane kicks? There's one version of the air hurricane kick that has a really short arc and is great for getting next to your opponent in a hurry. Is there any trick to getting the short arc air hurricane kick out?

[ShinAkuma204]

I believe that's called the juice kick and I'm not sure what the trick is.

[ShinVega]

How about N Ken's air hurricane kicks? There's one version of the air hurricane kick that has a really short arc and is great for getting next to your opponent in a hurry. Is there any trick to getting the short arc air hurricane kick out?

Basically if you've ever played CvS2 then you should know what a short jump is. You can perform a tatsumaki kick while doing a short jump (there is no short jump in ST, however the timing is the same i.e. you can do a juice kick in CvS2), it's very fast and difficult to do at first. It's really easy once you get the motion down. All you need to remember is to never let your thumb (center of your thumb) leave neutral on the D-pad. As for using a J-stick it's much easier, you just need to get the motion down. Do NOT practice doing the 225 degree motion in reverse (example Fei Long's windmill kick or Sagat's Tiger Knee), it's faster to just tap up+towards and then QCB; this will also improve you're accuracy.

[JoeMasters]

I love that version of the AHK. I try to use his overhead for mix-ups after hisknee throw,j.jab ->AHK, or during a combo. I havent played much competitive ST yet. Is this an effective method, or is it easily countered?

[jchensor]

Hey, I'm just getting into ST, playing N.Ken because Knee Bash is awesome.

I'm having trouble doing his hit confirm (shortshortsuper) I know the command, there was even one day when I had it down, but now I can't do it..I dunno, I just do short short nothing. What's the timing for cancelling into the super?

Make sure you time the button presses so they are always the same length apart. The space you put between the first Short and the second Short should be the same space you put in between the second Short and the Short + Punch you use to activate the Super. It's not a Buffer, so don't do it quickly like a Buffer.

I love that version of the AHK. I try to use his overhead for mix-ups after hisknee throw,j.jab ->AHK, or during a combo. I havent played much competitive ST yet. Is this an effective method, or is it easily countered?

The Overhead kicks are useful only in a Blue Moon. They work REALLY well on people who aren't used to them, but on most players, it doesn't do much for you, especially if you abuse it. So save it for those key moments, like finishing someone off or hitting them when you know they are one hit away from a dizzy. One good tactic is that you can hit Gief with it as a Meaty at a range you cannot be SPD'ed! If you learn that distance, you can usually get a dizzy off of Gief if you land Jump Fierce XX Air hurricane Kick into Crouch Roundhouse. One overhead there will cause Gief to fall Dizzy a lot, and if they try and SPD, you land the kick for sure.

- James
http://jchensor.blogspot.com

[ShinVega]

I saw a very interesting glitch for the first time. The CPU was Ken, I crossed him up with a Fierce Horizontal Rolling Ball, the CPU input the command for a RH tatsumaki at the same moment. I landed, and he hit me 1 time, bounced off me, and continued the same tatsumaki all the way to the other side of the screen (full screen)!

[NoAffinity]

Oh and about the Knee Bash..I was watching Mattsun, and after a knee bash, he seems to always do jumping short. I know that that's a good tick into knee bash, so my questions..

What's a better tick, jumping short, walkup kneebash, or jumping short, crouching short, walkup kneebash?

What else can you do with a jumping short?

Best bet, like with any aspect of the game, is to mix it up. In the above scenario, you have a plethora of options:

jump-in short->cr. short->knee bash

jump-in short->knee bash

jump-in jab->cr. short->knee bash

jump-in jab->roundhouse AHK->walk-in knee bash

jump-in jab->roundhouse AHK->cr. roundhouse (knock-down, sometime dizzy)

jump-in fierce/roundhouse->fierce AHK->crouching roundhouse (knock-down, frequent dizzy, difficult to time following a knee bash->jump in...for me at least)

jump-in jab->fierce AHK->cr. forward->fireball (the fireball will not combo)

jump-in jab->fierce AHK->cr. forward->crescent kick (crescent kick will not combo, and leaves you vulnerable to counter, but good for flash)

...and other, but you get the idea. For stricly finding additional usefullness for the jump-in short, a personall favorite is: jump-in short->cr. short->jab uppercut (3-hit, knock-down).

The "short arc" AHK (aka juice kick) can be performed by executing it very early in a jump. It is easier to do if "video slow down" is being produced, such as when a fireball hits an opponent, or holding jump forward while in move animation (such as a whiffed uppercut) then executing AHK as soon as jump animation begins. Timing is quite tricky.

[X-Static]

I really like Ken because of how different he plays in this game. He is a very fun and complex character, but man, that juice kick is hard to do on a pad! I haven't tried it using a stick yet.

[YuuFone]

i have a question about ken's crazy kicks

how many kicks are there?
how do i use them??

cometimes they come out when i don't want it....how do i fix this problem??

[X-Static]

He has 3 kicks:

1. qcf + kick
Used in combos or after a c.RH much like fireball. This is the most useful of the 3.

2. toward to down + kick
Not much use that I know of.

3. hcf + kick
This is like Ryu's s.RH, but it's faster and generally not as useful.

If you hold the kick button after any of these attacks, it becomes an overhead, which can be useful sometimes.

Using them by accident is a problem everyone has at first. You just need to focus more on doing the motions for the moves you want "cleanly" if that makes sense.

[Mariodood]

Hey guys, just a question about KNEE BASH (still my reason for playing N Ken)

So let's say I set up knee bash with a crouching LK tick. The opponent can get out with counter throw or reversal shoryu. What I'm wondering is, if I do crouching LK -> LP shoryu, will their shoryu get beaten out? If not, how can I beat their reversal shoryu attempt?

I'm also not having nearly as much trouble doing juice kicks now, my advice for anyone trying it is just do Upforward -> Back as fast as possible. My big problem (the reason I can't really do it 100%) is because I often hit Up when I'm trying to hit Up-forward, and so I end up doing an "up" juice kick, which has a much narrower arc than the upforward one, and that screws me a lot. I love juice kicking over a fireball and knee bashing the fuck out of the guy who threw it. Yeah!

[Golden_Gunman]

In the example you give, the opponent's Shoryu, if timed correctly, will beat yours. That's because they will recover slightly quicker than you. Your shoryu will beat their counter throw attempt, however.

What you want to do is vary ticks. If you always do cr. lk tick, throw, then mix it up with cr lk X 2 , throw, or finish the entire block string, like cr lk X 3, cr mk X Hadoken, etc.

One thing to also be aware of is that Ken's MP throw has more range. Sometimes you can do like cr lk x 2 and be out of knee bash range, but still in range for that throw.

[ShinAkuma204]

Hey guys, just a question about KNEE BASH (still my reason for playing N Ken)

So let's say I set up knee bash with a crouching LK tick. The opponent can get out with counter throw or reversal shoryu. What I'm wondering is, if I do crouching LK -> LP shoryu, will their shoryu get beaten out? If not, how can I beat their reversal shoryu attempt?

As GG already said if they time it right they can beat your DP. However you can delay in anticipation to beat or trade with their DP. That's a bit too much thinking though and if you want to hit with the DP there are other setups.

Instead of a LK->knee bash you could do a couple of LK to put you slightly out of throw range. Now in order to throw you would need to walk forward just a bit. This is where the DP can play havoc with your opponent. Natural instinct for a player is to poke or counter throw when an opponent walks towards them. If you walk forward a bit->DP you will find it much like a psychic DP when you hit the counter.

It's a decent option considering that if they do nothing and simply block Ken is fairly safe due to his fast DP recovery.

Basically the order of actions would be 2/3 LK->Slight pause(anticipating a counter DP, though you could skip)->walk forward a step->DP/or walk forward a step knee bash

[Mariodood]

Ok, thanks guys, I'll remember that stuff. I got more questions.

Can Ryu juice kick too? If so, that is lame. Seems like he really got the better end of the bargain in this game, he got forward+MP, forward+HP, Shinkuu Hadoken, and better fireballs then Ken. What does Ken have over Ryu besides KNEE BASH?
How does Ken combo his hurricane kick out of air normals? Such as jumping jab -> hurricane kick. I can't do it! Is there any special timing to it?

[ShinAkuma204]

Ok, thanks guys, I'll remember that stuff. I got more questions.

Can Ryu juice kick too? If so, that is lame. Seems like he really got the better end of the bargain in this game, he got forward+MP, forward+HP, Shinkuu Hadoken, and better fireballs then Ken.

That is a good question. As far as I have seen nobody does it but i would assume he should have it. Perhaps it isn't as good as Ken's?

What does Ken have over Ryu besides KNEE BASH?

Quick dragon, easy to use cross up and longer range ground pokes.(standing Roundhouse)

He may still have his superior jump fierce punch as well.

How does Ken combo his hurricane kick out of air normals? Such as jumping jab -> hurricane kick. I can't do it! Is there any special timing to it?

Just practice. I think the timing is odd.

[fatboy]

He may still have his superior jump fierce punch as well.



This is correct! Confirmed by YBH hit box illustrations.

[ShinAkuma204]

This is correct! Confirmed by YBH hit box illustrations.

Thanks.

Apparently I got neg repped for answering Mariodood's questions????

[Kuprin]

Welcome to SRK. When the neg comes, the neg comes. Usually in shitstorm form. I just ignore it.

[Sanjuro_The_Ronin]

Ok, thanks guys, I'll remember that stuff. I got more questions.

Can Ryu juice kick too? If so, that is lame. Seems like he really got the better end of the bargain in this game, he got forward+MP, forward+HP, Shinkuu Hadoken, and better fireballs then Ken. What does Ken have over Ryu besides KNEE BASH?

Yes Ryu can juice kick kind of. I find it not nearly as useful as Ken's considering you can set up alot of different scenarios with Ken's while Ryu's just knocks them down. Ive done it randomly with both O.Ryu and N.Ryu.

[Kyokuji]

The main thing Ken has over Ryu is relatively safe DPs. You can miss one at point blank and probably still be OK. That makes it a lot tougher for people like 'Sim to just stick out random normals.

[Mariodood]

I didn't know that, I thought they were the same.

How safe are DPs on block? I know they're really safe, but can anyone punish them on block?

Anywhere I can find frame data for ST?

[Kuprin]

I don't believe anyone can punish Ken's jab DP on block. Stronger ones can definitely be punished.

Yoga Book Hyper is the best source of ST frame data, though I believe there are sources around the Internet in various places.

[Mariodood]

What about Ryu's dp?

[ShinAkuma204]

Ken's DP is hard to punish but can be punished still with a trip or a fast attack.

Ryu's can basically be punished easily if you expect it and can always be tripped.

[fatboy]

Ken's DP is hard to punish but can be punished still with a trip or a fast attack.


FYI, at the right distanace the the Jab is un-punishable. It will leave ken with a +1 frame advanage. Even if it is a little off, there are no normal moves in the game that are are fast enough to punish the DP at this distance... Even Dhalsims ducking forwards with a 2 frame start up can punish it, b/c ken is pushed to far away.

This is discussed/shown in the Yoga Book Hyper.

[ShinAkuma204]

FYI, at the right distanace the the Jab is un-punishable. It will leave ken with a +1 frame advanage. Even if it is a little off, there are no normal moves in the game that are are fast enough to punish the DP at this distance... Even Dhalsims ducking forwards with a 2 frame start up can punish it, b/c ken is pushed to far away.

This is discussed/shown in the Yoga Book Hyper.

I'm not positive but I think there may be a couple of setups so that it can't be punished.

[fatboy]

I'm not positive but I think there may be a couple of setups so that it can't be punished.

Yep.

At the rigt distance his jab DP is 100% safe.

Don't get me wrong, if he is in your face, you can punish him afterwards.

But, if he is perfectly placed, you can't punish him.

There are tons of videos showing ANTI-KEN , applying pressure this way.

I will be more than happy to post them up for you. If you like. :tup:

[ShinAkuma204]

I think you misunderstood what I said?

And do you mean Aniken?

[Kuprin]

Yeah, I think he does mean Aniken...I've seen him do it, and it's pretty cool. So it's a spacing thing, got it. I'll have to watch for it more closely.

[fatboy]

I think you misunderstood what I said?

And do you mean Aniken?
Yep AniKen.. My bad. :wgrin:

[wakeupsweep]

Does O. Ken's fierce dp hit on first frame too? Looks like it doesn't to me, but I could be way off.

[ShinVega]

Yes, it does hit on the first frame.

[wakeupsweep]

Ok, thanks.

[JoeMasters]

Thought I could get some facts on this..

I havent had much comp in ST for awhile but ive been practicing with Ken's knee throw mix-ups/cross-ups/etc. If im crossing somebody up right after the knee throw and they input the DP command, will he turn around and DP or will he DP the opposite way. And of course, are cross-ups really safe? I havent seen any top players cross up after knee throw. All i see are tick throws really.

[ShinVega]

To answer your first question if the opp. inputs the command f, d, d/away the opp. will "automatically" switch directions and counter your crossup.

Crossups are effective if you use them when you safe jump. For the most part IMO crossups with N.Ken should be used sparingly, if at all. Knee bash is mostly used with ticks or mix-ups.

[JoeMasters]

Ah ok. I forgot to specify somthing though, these arent jump cross-ups, these are knee throw-> walk on the other side cross-up. Would the DP switch sides automaticlly? Sorry for that ^_^

Also in corners there are times when I jump in and appear on the other side off the player standing after the knee throw. Are those safe?

[ShinVega]

Ah ok. I forgot to specify somthing though, these arent jump cross-ups, these are knee throw-> walk on the other side cross-up. Would the DP switch sides automaticlly? Sorry for that ^_^

Also in corners there are times when I jump in and appear on the other side off the player standing after the knee throw. Are those safe?

Strategy for DP still holds even though you walk under (it's not easy or automatic, you have to time it as a reversal and input the reverse command).

No, basically they are not safe: The reason that you appear on the other side of your opp. is because you "pass over him" (i.e. you jump in after your first neutral frame with j.Short) while he's in recovery frames he physically doesn't move as far as you do when you jump (in pixels). Whether or not it's safe depends on the character and skill of your opp. Bottom line is it's not safe because the opp. will always land b/f you do (so even if you tried to make a safe jump you couldn't), they'll punish you accordingly if you try.

[eruditemode]

hello all,

just returned from Mikado where I got served by a purple ken, who I later found out was Matsun. I haven't played against aniken so I can't speak on that subject of who's better, but I can attest to Matsun having the prettiest ken I've ever seen. Its almost scary on what he can do with him. Several game notes:

1) funk kick glitch. match was O. ryu vs ken, vega stage. Ken wins round by doing cr. strong into funky kick. ryu is killed by the 2nd hit of funky kick. usually the match ends here. BUT NO! ken does another full funky kick (half circle one I believe) and the button is held so that he does the axe finish. If anyone knows how to do this, how this is impossible, and if other characters can do it, I'd love to know. Again, a full funky kick was done AFTER the match was over, ryu completely laying in the waste pile, dead. I am positive that it happened and the player who was victimized also looked up and gave me the "wtf" face. I should have asked him how to do it, but he doesn't look like the social type.

2) juice kick combo. Even though he didn't land it on me, apparently if you have amazingly fast fingers you can combo a juice kick off the ground by doing jump jab (instant) into juice kick. All three kicks of the juice air hurricane should land, with the jump jab, so 4 total hits. I saw it once in a combo video off sagat, but that was done using an emulator, and this is to be done with human hands. Its difficult enough to do a juice kick, but to add the jump jab in is near impossible. Try it yourself, half the time you can get the combo to work, but the arc of the ensuing Hurricane kick will not be in the juice kick arc.

3) if you want to play n.ken competitively, master the juice kick. He cannot hold up his own without it in my opinion. ken is also master of the footsies game and is played extremely effectively by freezing opponents with fear of dragon punch. this will allow you to get your knee bash in.

anyways that's it for now. Just want to say that while he's not the best in the game, n. ken is definitely a really fun character to play with, and there is always something you could be practicing with him (st. fierce to super, juice kick etc).

also have a question.

To answer your first question if the opp. inputs the command f, d, d/away the opp. will "automatically" switch directions and counter your crossup.

I've always wondered about this while playing ken. It seems like sometimes I will do a normal f, d, df +p and ken/ryu will automatically change directions for the dp. But if I read the above statement correctly, it says that you must change the last input to down-back. Can I get a confirmation on this? The reason why I ask is because I've never seen that notation before (and thus I've never attempted it) and yet on some occasions 50% I can get the anti cross up dp to come out just using regular dp notation.

to clear it up, if I am on 1p side, and I am getting crossed up by 2p jumping over me to the left. I have three choices

(all notation given as 1p side facing right)
1) f, d, df
2) f, d, db
3) b, d, db (as if it were a 2p dp notation).

which is the correct notation to get a anti cross up dp (where ken turns and now does a 2p side dp on reverse)
If anyone could clear this up for me that would be great.

thanks

[ShinVega]

If you perform the regular dp motion any time b/f the opp. reaches zero barrier then you won't change directions b/c you've input the command and the game engine is no longer focusing on where the opp. is. The game just executes the move and pays attention to the hit boxes. If you execute it after it breaks zero barrier like a reversal (i.e. as soon as opp. breaks zero barrier execute d/f+P) it will switch sides for you. Any input after time for reversal requires you to hit d/a+P; when you hit down it creates a neutral state for your character [i.e. no matter which side you face you still hold just 1 down] this neutrality creates the opportunity for you to change directions on the DP because the game engine is not focusing on which direction your facing; the game sees you as neutral this gives you more time to execute the DP. I hope this helps.


1) funk kick glitch. match was O. ryu vs ken, vega stage. Ken wins round by doing cr. strong into funky kick. ryu is killed by the 2nd hit of funky kick. usually the match ends here. BUT NO! ken does another full funky kick (half circle one I believe) and the button is held so that he does the axe finish. If anyone knows how to do this, how this is impossible, and if other characters can do it, I'd love to know. Again, a full funky kick was done AFTER the match was over, ryu completely laying in the waste pile, dead. I am positive that it happened and the player who was victimized also looked up and gave me the "wtf" face.

For the hcf+k (Roundhouse) coming out after the round here's a possible explanation (it applies to your last question as well):
1st Conjecture: In order for any move to come out after the match was decided (vitatlity of 1 opp. reaches zero) that must mean there is some time left for input after the opp. dies (if what you say actually happened and wasn't a game engine "brain fart").
2nd Conjecture: I have no idea what special was used to kill opp. (I assume it was the inside crescent kick qcf+K, canceled into Ax kick/overhead)
3rd Conjecture/fact: Once you defeat your opp. the game engine ignores the side/direction your opp. is facing. [ex. You're dic and you defeat opp. with H.S. dic will face the same direction (victory stance) no matter which side you decide to land on]
4th Conjecture: The inside crescent and Rounhouse funky kicks will cross up the opp. if you perform the Ax kick (hold K or tap K again while the special is in motion).

Very confusing b/c question said Ryu was laying completely on ground (how there could be this many additional input frames/time baffles me).

Yes the combo you mentioned in #2 is possible w/o emulator, but only works on Sagat, Gief, Hawk b/c they have large hit boxes. Definately master the juice kick; it's Extremely useful. Check my other posts in this thread for more info on Juice Kick.

to be continued/edited...

[MrSimpson]

Thanks to all the people who have contributed to this thread. Lots of solid goodness in here. N-Ken for the win.

[nohoho]

If he input the command f,d/f+Strong,d+K (if he's right beside the opp.) and continues the motion to d/a, a+K the Roundhouse (actual name of kick) will come out. The reason for this is when Ken is right beside an opp. and the opp. crouches the funky kick will cross-up the opp. (goes completely on the other side of the opp.), since Matsun continued the motion to a half circle motion, the second Ken cross-up the opp. (and won the match) the Roundhouse would still come out.
This is wrong for a variety of reasons. Well, three reasons at least. No, wait, four. Hold it hold it five. Six. Final answer. Six. Possibly seven. I'm going to go with seven.
1) too far away for funky kick to cross up after crouching strong
2) wrong funky kick for combos
3) wrong funky kick for crossing up
4) forward doesn't count as away. ("right" can sometimes count as both forward and away but not if you aren't holding the joystick there.)
5) command buffer will have expired way before you get to the second kick button
6) no funky kick 2 hit combo on ryu if he's crouching
7) if funky kick crosses up it won't hit (twice) and vice versa

ShinVega, dude, when you're posting conjecture please identify it as such. You kinda did at the bottom there -- "this will require some testing" -- just move that type of qualifier to the top the paragraph next time ok? You've been posting a lot of great stuff in this subforum but you gotta indicate when you're speculating and when you're writing from experience.

[ShinVega]

ShinVega, dude, when you're posting conjecture please identify it as such. You kinda did at the bottom there -- "this will require some testing" -- just move that type of qualifier to the top the paragraph next time ok? You've been posting a lot of great stuff in this subforum but you gotta indicate when you're speculating and when you're writing from experience.

Point Taken, and will be corrected (edited to the best of my abilities/studies).

The entire second paragraph was from experience, and (mostly) "educated" conjecture.

--Note: don't try to prove hypothesis on no sleep for 38 hours

[Kyokuji]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=UiorkJr6Zgw

Video of Ken's ground cross-up. It looks like it only works on P1 side.

[ShinVega]

Ken's Inside Crescent (qcf+K) and Roundhouse funky kicks (hcf+K) both have the ability to cross up crouching opp. under certain circumstances when standing right beside them, it works on both sides (with or without ax kick). The reason it crosses up is due to the hit boxes on both specials. The hit box completely hits the opp. on the other side of them causing you to cross up. I'd post the hit box diagram but that would be copy right infringement (it's on pg 15, and 16 of the YBH). The f, df, d+K won't cross up for the same reason.

[Kyokuji]

It actually depends what character you're fighting. It works every time on shotos from the left, but never on the right. I couldn't get it to work on Chun' at all.

[ShinVega]

Sorry,
Kyokuji. I'll clarify it for every character.
hcf+K = RH
qcf+K = IC

Chun: RH
RYu: RH
Honda: RH
Blanka: RH
Guile: RH
T. Hawk: RH hits crouching hawk
Fei Long: RH
Boxer: RH hit crouching Boxer
Sagat: RH hits crouching Sagat
Ken: RH
Gief: RH hits crouching Gief
Sim: RH
Cammmy: RH
Dee Jay: RH crosses up; and IC hits crouching Dee Jay
Claw: RH
Dic: RH

This list is only for crouching opp. from both sides (I'm using AE so I don't know if that has anything to do with why you can't do it from the right for shotos). I've spent a few hours learning exactly how just the RH cross up works and this is what I've come up with.

Let me define cross up. A "cross up" is any time you cross your opp. center of gravity right on the opposite side. An "actual cross up" is when your character changes to the opposite side of the opp. and stays there.

I did these specifically to answer the question about side problems with shotos.
1P/2P = opp. is on side stated.

There are 2 ways you can cross up a shoto. You can jump in and press away, dn/away, land+dn, dn/twds, twds + hold K *you don't have to hold K on all of them*. You can also input the command extremely fast so that Ken does not move away from Ryu at all (the timing is similar to that of a s.720, and yes 1 pixel can/does matter). Both lead to the same results as follows:

1. Ryu is standing.
2P
Ken crosses up Ryu.
1P
Ken actual crosses up Ryu.

2. Ryu is Jumping
2P
Ken crosses up Ryu
1P
Ken actual crosses up Ryu

3. Ryu is waking up.
2P
Ken actual crosses up Ryu.
1P
Ken crosses up Ryu

4. Ryu walks twds Ken.
2P
Ken crosses up Ryu.
1P
Ken actual crosses up Ryu.

I hope someone will test this again and give me any useful input. I hope this helps clear things up a little. I'm doing the cycle of tests for all characters and will post it as soon as I'm done. I've tried to make it easy as possible but post any problems/questions/comments/help/suggestions etc.

[fatboy]

Testing..

[nohoho]

ShinVega - Please don't touch the wiki. Your info is bad. I just fucking can't be bothered to debunk it (fatboy, try some of these -- like crossing up Blanka with hcf+k. See for yourself that dude is confused.) but here's a video from Mr. Bentoudairi showing how it don't cross up from both sides:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=UiorkJr6Zgw

[ShinAkuma204]

Nohoho - ShinVega is saying Ken can crossup a crouching opponent from either side. Are you saying that Ken cannot?

BTW - The video you posted has already been addressed on page 4.

[nohoho]

What I'm saying is: deez nuts.

[ShinAkuma204]

What I'm saying is: deez nuts.

Suck on them.

Ok, thanks guys, I'll remember that stuff. I got more questions.

Can Ryu juice kick too? If so, that is lame. Seems like he really got the better end of the bargain in this game, he got forward+MP, forward+HP, Shinkuu Hadoken, and better fireballs then Ken. What does Ken have over Ryu besides KNEE BASH?
How does Ken combo his hurricane kick out of air normals? Such as jumping jab -> hurricane kick. I can't do it! Is there any special timing to it?

Concerning the Ryu juice kick - you can see it performed 23 seconds into this vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTPubo8iQwU

[ShinVega]

ShinVega - Please don't touch the wiki. Your info is bad. I just fucking can't be bothered to debunk it (fatboy, try some of these -- like crossing up Blanka with hcf+k. See for yourself that dude is confused.) but here's a video from Mr. Bentoudairi showing how it don't cross up from both sides:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=UiorkJr6Zgw

I've only posted 2 things in the wiki and both are useful and correct. They are not assumptions. You need to learn how to read everything and not just what you want to see (I've posted several things in this forum and you're the only person that replies negatively, instead of just giving a reply). I stated in my post that it wasn't finished. You must have no life because you have plenty of time to criticise others instead of giving useful help. GROW UP!

Enough of your posts here are negative and a waist of time for me to read.

Au Revoir

[FreshOJ]

Ok, thanks guys, I'll remember that stuff. I got more questions.

Can Ryu juice kick too? If so, that is lame. Seems like he really got the better end of the bargain in this game, he got forward+MP, forward+HP, Shinkuu Hadoken, and better fireballs then Ken. What does Ken have over Ryu besides KNEE BASH?
How does Ken combo his hurricane kick out of air normals? Such as jumping jab -> hurricane kick. I can't do it! Is there any special timing to it?

I wouldn't say that Ryu's "Juice" Kick works better than Ken's does. Ryu would use it to move quickly...and possibly crossup someone for a...*knockdown*. Ken, meanwhile, gets combos galore from his version simply because his Hurricane Kick doesn't knock down. Check out the TZW Combo FAQ and the madness that ensues when Ken corners Sagat. (Did NKI cover this in his combo/shenanigans video, as well?)

As far as interrupting their jumping moves, I've interrupted jumping jab and the very first frame of jumping straight up roundhouse. You have to interrupt them both at the very first instance that they hit. Keep practicing. It's really not that hard.

I hope they bring back those kicks for SF4. :) Or...maybe just the floaty air HK that Ken had...you know...the one that would hit Sagat four times if you started it right after Ken passed the apex of his jump. :)

[X-Static]

How useful is the juice kick in a real match though? I hardly ever see it. I can do cross-up AHKs, shortx2xxsuper, j.jabxj.AHK and have learned his kneebash craziness, but this "juice kick" is giving me problems not only in execution but also in implementation.

[fatboy]

How useful is the juice kick in a real match though?

In top tier play, it is one of his main tools to make him competitive. It gives him a tool to get around many fireball zones more quickly and efficiently that any thing else can do.

A great example would be against zoning Sim who is just at the end of jump range, if you juice Kick over a fireball your arc will go right over many of Sim's AA normals (that would hit a regular jump) and land right before Sim recovers and get a knee bash.

Looking for a vid of this... Will post when I find one!

Maybe Nohoho can throw you a bone here, if he knows of one of his head. But you may need to pray :pray:... and sacrifice a goat :devil: ..... I think that has been the standard protocal in the past...

[ShinAkuma204]

The only problem with the juice kick is difficulty of execution. Even guys like Matsun mess it up sometimes and usually results in a giant floaty air hurricane.

[fatboy]

The only problem with the juice kick is difficulty of execution...

No joke.

[Kyokuji]

Yeah, the reason you don't see it much is that it's hard to do consistently.
Like they said, if you mess it up, you're wide open.

[X-Static]

I have major problems pulling it off. I can do it sometimes. The easiest time to do it is after a hit fireball (because of the slowdown). I've seen Mattsun do it against a Dhalsim player right at the end of a match once when he was basically down and out and looking for a homerun. I guess I will go back to practicing it. I hope in HDRemix, he will be good enough to not need to use such a move to be competitive.

[ShinVega]

Here's some help for the juice kick. IMO it always helps to know the exact timing required to execute a move. The easiest way to get the timing down is to tap up, then very quickly perform HK motion (if you do it too slow it will fly up high like a helicopter, if you perform it correctly it will make a very small parabola/rainbow and it will be very fast) this is easy to do consistently IMO. Use the same timing only pressing up+twds. In order to escape extremely quickly input d, d/a, a+K, up/twds this will make you fly across the screen away from your opp. (this isn't as difficult to perform). Juice kicks are worth practicing (if you really want to spend the time required to master), I use them occasionally.

Also, posted revision of:
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=4624750&postcount=102

This should put to rest the cross up question. If not please let me know why and I would love to fix it and get it right.

fatboy hope this helps...

[fatboy]

fatboy hope this helps...

Thank you kind sir!:wgrin:

[X-Static]

Thanks for the info., ShinVega.

[ShinVega]

You can do the outside crescent kick by pressing twds, up/twds, up. I don't know if anyone else knew about that.

[TheRealO.GKen]

Someone should post a youtube video of someone "consistently" doing juice kicks. I wonder if it matters if its done on a P360 or not.

[Airthrow]

I just started picking up N-Ken. It seems like he has some weaknesses, but if you can get some shenanigens going then the character matchups don't matter. :tup:

[wakeupsweep]

Since Ken talk goes here, I thought I'd answer in this thread.

I opened kawaks and made a short short super macro

~d,,,d4,~d,d4,,,,,,,,,,,,,d,df,f,d,df,f4,1 (turbo 0, I couldn't get the 2 cr. shorts to combo at the other speeds)

While I'm no expert and I'm sure there's other ways to write that macro, it does work.
Now, I tried replacing f4 with df4 (open kawaks' faqs.txt if you don't know what f4, 1, etc mean), adding another frame before the super motion and some other stuff, but I always got 3 cr.shorts and no super.
I wouldn't consider that a reliable test to be honest, take it as a starting point if you want.

[fatboy]

I am not sure how you use kawaks that but can you try the 236523 +lp+wk? I guess then end would be d,df41.

Thanks, for checking for me!

How do you use the Kawaks? Can you help me with that?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OK, So I did to sets of 100 both ways.

In game play I do it and it comes out. However, I learned that my LS-32 is more sensitive than I thought.

I don't have Kawaks, but I really tried to focus on the exact motion. It is not perfect but it is a start.

In training mode:

I ended the sequence with 2365236+lp+lk, I hit 9/10 for 7 hit combo.

When I ended the sequence with 236523 I go the following (average):

4/10 cr.short x 3

4/10 cr.shortx2 > super: Did not combo for 7 hits, it was 2hits and five for the combo.

2/10 cr.shortx2 > super: 7 hits.

Anyway, I know human input is not perfect, but the results leave me with one conclusion. Ending in the foraward position, greatly increases my chances to complete the combo.

So this leads me to my LS-32, there is ver little "free play" between forward and d/f. Meaning it is very easy for me to hit the foward postion. So, even though it feels like I am hitting d/f my controller, it easily passes into the foarward postion when whipping out the motion.

Thanks! Good post brotha! + rep! :party:

[wakeupsweep]

I would have answered earlier but it was 1 am last where I am.
Macros are pretty easy to use in kawaks, download the emulator from here http://cps2shock.retrogames.com/download.html,
launch the game once, close the emulator, go to ini folder and open ssf2t.ini. Scroll down until you find

[Macros]

; Macros for player 1
Macro1A=14+

replace 14+ with whatever you want. Default macro 1 key should be 'Q'.
If you modify the macro, and your emulator is still running, you need to restart it, not just the game, but the whole emulator.

[Airthrow]

Are there any videos explaining the juice kick?

[fatboy]

I would have answered earlier but it was 1 am last where I am.
Macros are pretty easy to use in kawaks, download the emulator from here http://cps2shock.retrogames.com/download.html,
launch the game once, close the emulator, go to ini folder and open ssf2t.ini. Scroll down until you find

[Macros]

; Macros for player 1
Macro1A=14+

replace 14+ with whatever you want. Default macro 1 key should be 'Q'.
If you modify the macro, and your emulator is still running, you need to restart it, not just the game, but the whole emulator.

Thank you kind SIR!!! :pray:

[ShinVega]

I would have answered earlier but it was 1 am last where I am.
Macros are pretty easy to use in kawaks, download the emulator from here http://cps2shock.retrogames.com/download.html,
launch the game once, close the emulator, go to ini folder and open ssf2t.ini. Scroll down until you find

[Macros]

; Macros for player 1
Macro1A=14+

replace 14+ with whatever you want. Default macro 1 key should be 'Q'.
If you modify the macro, and your emulator is still running, you need to restart it, not just the game, but the whole emulator.

Thanks, I never knew how easy it was! Mame never worked for some reason; now I can play online again :D

[djfrijoles]

Thanks, I never knew how easy it was! Mame never worked for some reason; now I can play online again :D

I'd like some games with you kind sir !!!

[NoAffinity]

1) funk kick glitch. match was O. ryu vs ken, vega stage. Ken wins round by doing cr. strong into funky kick. ryu is killed by the 2nd hit of funky kick. usually the match ends here. BUT NO! ken does another full funky kick (half circle one I believe) and the button is held so that he does the axe finish. If anyone knows how to do this, how this is impossible, and if other characters can do it, I'd love to know. Again, a full funky kick was done AFTER the match was over, ryu completely laying in the waste pile, dead. I am positive that it happened and the player who was victimized also looked up and gave me the "wtf" face. I should have asked him how to do it, but he doesn't look like the social type.

Digging this one up from a couple pages back, as I don't see that anyone ever clarified this. NKI has documented this (video on his site, I believe). You can do that kick indefinitely (in theory) after end of match, and yes can finish it by either not doing it again or with the axe kick (possibly other finishes....? this is strictly from my experience). You have to kill with the kick, and can then continue inputting the command just before the animation ends, on each successive kick. I believe it is the properties of only a handful of moves and the game engine, that allows for this. You will see during normal gameplay that it is possible to do two of these kicks (probably more...) in very rapid succession. Having seen it with the naked eye a handful of times, it appears one cancels, by a few frames, into the next. If anyone has any more specific documentation of how this works, please share.

While there are other characters that can sneak a move or two in after their opponent's death (chun wall jump/head stomp if she kills with a head stomp), I am not aware of any that can do it indefinitely.

[RoboKrikit]

You will see during normal gameplay that it is possible to do two of these kicks (probably more...) in very rapid succession. Having seen it with the naked eye a handful of times, it appears one cancels, by a few frames, into the next. If anyone has any more specific documentation of how this works, please share.

No specific documentation, but I frequently (often accidentally) cancel outside crescent to inside crescent via f, df, d + K (hold), df, f, negative edge K. I hesitate to say 'hold', because it's more of a tap with a hasty continuous motion to df, f... any real holding down of the button will start the overhead kick.

[RoboKrikit]

Here's a video of Ken's crazy kicks being linked, and performed after a win. It's easier if you piano the kicks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDBgOjZ9ot0

[ShinAkuma204]

Here's a video of Ken's crazy kicks being linked, and performed after a win. It's easier if you piano the kicks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDBgOjZ9ot0

How does the red Ken have crazy kicks?

[Airthrow]

There's also a glitch in which you can do moves after all the multi-hit grabs, like kneebash and headbutts, I know you can do jumping attacks even after the multi-hit grabs kill the opponent...

[ShinVega]

How does the red Ken have crazy kicks?

Excellent Question that I would like to know the answer too as well. :confused:

[NoAffinity]

Excellent Question that I would like to know the answer too as well. :confused:

if you're referring to the video, these kicks are part of his special move set... :confused:

[ShinAkuma204]

The context of the question specifically is how is it that Super Turbo Ken is wearing Original Ken colors?

[Mechanica]

the jab button..?

[jms]

:rofl: This is getting so circular it hurts.

Here's another one! Is that really Turbo 1?

[RoboKrikit]

Jab button selects White Ken in ST. Red Ken = Jab was Super.

There is a bug in arcade ST that lets you get O. colors with N. characters. Pick the O. character, then lose vs. CPU. On the loss portrait screen, have 2P come in as a new challenger; this takes 2P to the character select screen while Continue? is still displaying for 1P. Hit 1P start, and 1P will light up with the O. character color. Let it time out without pressing any 1P buttons, and the N. character will be selected with the O. color.

The bug activates (apparently) when a previously-O.-character player continues while the character select screen is already active. Any other method of getting this to happen should work.

Yeah, that is Turbo 1, sort of. It's the JP ROM at default settings on MAME OS X; the emulated speed is way off.

This is on-topic for this off-topic conversation, though off-topic for the thread in general, but can anyone explain this?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=SluVLcBKl-U

I found the original here: http://bbs.kofunion.net/read.php?tid=115384

It says it is Super Street Fighter II X, and the file is in 384 x 224 arcade resolution. Both N. characters are in O. colors.

[ShinAkuma204]

Jab button selects White Ken in ST. Red Ken = Jab was Super.

There is a bug in arcade ST that lets you get O. colors with N. characters. Pick the O. character, then lose vs. CPU. On the loss portrait screen, have 2P come in as a new challenger; this takes 2P to the character select screen while Continue? is still displaying for 1P. Hit 1P start, and 1P will light up with the O. character color. Let it time out without pressing any 1P buttons, and the N. character will be selected with the O. color.

The bug activates (apparently) when a previously-O.-character player continues while the character select screen is already active. Any other method of getting this to happen should work.

Yeah, that is Turbo 1, sort of. It's the JP ROM at default settings on MAME OS X; the emulated speed is way off.

This is on-topic for this off-topic conversation, though off-topic for the thread in general, but can anyone explain this?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=SluVLcBKl-U

I found the original here: http://bbs.kofunion.net/read.php?tid=115384

It says it is Super Street Fighter II X, and the file is in 384 x 224 arcade resolution. Both N. characters are in O. colors.


Couldn't you just double up on the glitch?

[fatboy]

Jab button selects White Ken in ST. Red Ken = Jab was Super.

There is a bug in arcade ST that lets you get O. colors with N. characters. Pick the O. character, then lose vs. CPU. On the loss portrait screen, have 2P come in as a new challenger; this takes 2P to the character select screen while Continue? is still displaying for 1P. Hit 1P start, and 1P will light up with the O. character color. Let it time out without pressing any 1P buttons, and the N. character will be selected with the O. color.

The bug activates (apparently) when a previously-O.-character player continues while the character select screen is already active. Any other method of getting this to happen should work.

Yeah, that is Turbo 1, sort of. It's the JP ROM at default settings on MAME OS X; the emulated speed is way off.

This is on-topic for this off-topic conversation, though off-topic for the thread in general, but can anyone explain this?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=SluVLcBKl-U

I found the original here: http://bbs.kofunion.net/read.php?tid=115384

It says it is Super Street Fighter II X, and the file is in 384 x 224 arcade resolution. Both N. characters are in O. colors.
Wow! What an answer!:wow:

[RoboKrikit]

Couldn't you just double up on the glitch?

The player that initiates the continue that starts up the player select screen gets their color reset, even if they were an O.char. This glitch only seems to work with a player who was an O. character who continues while the character select screen is already active for the other player.

[ShinVega]

[QUOTE=RoboKrikit;4822643]Jab button selects White Ken in ST. Red Ken = Jab was Super.QUOTE]

Thanks for answering. Never knew it was possible, don't think it's in YBH (course I can't read japanese so it might be).

[NoAffinity]

This is on-topic for this off-topic conversation, though off-topic for the thread in general, but can anyone explain this?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=SluVLcBKl-U

I found the original here: http://bbs.kofunion.net/read.php?tid=115384

It says it is Super Street Fighter II X, and the file is in 384 x 224 arcade resolution. Both N. characters are in O. colors.
What's even more interesting (sorry for going on-topic/off-topic, as well) is that the super death background animation is produced....however, if the fierce dragon punch killed, it would not produce super death animation. On top of that, presumably the dragon punch would knock Guile into the air, so the dragon punch actually threads in between the hits of the super, the super is what actually kills, and it kills by juggling off of a dragon punch. :looney:

...unless a special linked off of a super that kills will still produce the super death animation, but I can say with absolute certainty that when a normal linked off a super kills, it will not produce the super death animation.

[NormanJr911]

Greetings,
So i have been readingthrough this thread and I had a question concerning:
Connecting Jump Jab to Hurricane.
This is another tricky piece of execution with Ken. You can combo his jumping jab into any hurricane kick (HK is best). This is particularly good after a Knee Bash. The best way to do it is to do a QCB and then at back press jab followed by HK very quickly. (Or do the Jab at down-back).

I played this guy today online and he was doing j.fp into air hurricane with ease. Its the execution the same as doing it using jab? As well he was using old ken and I was using N. Ken, so my next question is, does it differ with which ken you use? is it easier, harder?

Also he mentioned that the juice kick is easy to do during slowdown like after hitting an airborne opponent with a fb. Can anyone confirm this? I'm just a noob :sad:

[Chrisis]

As far as how to double up on old colors on new characters, do the glitch once, but have the second player who challenges also be an Old character, upon their defeat repeat the glitch?

[NormanJr911]

Greetings,
So i have been readingthrough this thread and I had a question concerning:
Connecting Jump Jab to Hurricane.
This is another tricky piece of execution with Ken. You can combo his jumping jab into any hurricane kick (HK is best). This is particularly good after a Knee Bash. The best way to do it is to do a QCB and then at back press jab followed by HK very quickly. (Or do the Jab at down-back).

I played this guy today online and he was doing j.fp into air hurricane with ease. Its the execution the same as doing it using jab? As well he was using old ken and I was using N. Ken, so my next question is, does it differ with which ken you use? is it easier, harder?

Also he mentioned that the juice kick is easy to do during slowdown like after hitting an airborne opponent with a fb. Can anyone confirm this? I'm just a noob :sad:

Anyone? :sad:

[Sanjuro_The_Ronin]

Anyone? :sad:

Juice kick is easier to do during slowdown.

There is no real trick to canceling a j.jab into a Hurricane kick.

The timing is a little different between a j.jab and a j.fierce.

I dont know about the differences between O.Ken and N.Ken, I dont use O.Ken.

[djfrijoles]

Well I am by no means a Ken player, new or old, but I have something for you to try for what it is worth. Jump at the opponent for your attemp at the punch cxlded into hurracain kick like normal.
Now here is what I found most useful about the whole process, do the qcb motion LATE and complete the WHOLE motion before you hit ANY buttons. Think of it as a "meaty" airborne hurracain kick motion. I repeat, do the entire qcb motion when your on top of their forehead.

As for the buton inputs, think of the way it looks when it comes out, like the speed of it, and try that timing for the inputs.

Again I have to stress that I am no Ken player but at least it is SOMETHING for you to try :rofl:

[Kyokuji]

I don't see what the point of that is. That would only be useful if you took like 5 years to buffer quarter circles.

[djfrijoles]

Well he asked for help and then no one offered any so he quoted himself and asked again. Some one responded but with no real explanation of the way you ( as in you ) do it so I figuered I would tell him the way I have had some sucsess in doing it.

More importantly here, is if my way works or not. If he couldn't do it at the time of him posting,
and after my explanation on it gives him more sucess than before he posted than my post would have a very good reason for being up.

Guess we will just have to wait and see if he give us a "your way sux djfrijoles" response or "worked like a charm dude thnx"

[NormanJr911]

Thanks for the info guys! :tup:

I was not completing the WHOLE motion before I hit the groung thats why the hurricank kick wasn't connecting. I just had to speed up my motion and my button presses! thanks for the help guys!

[idi0t]

anyone have a video of kens juice kick?

[EndLeSS8]

Ken is kinda my main in ST, with Blanka second

Ken's combo here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3o7N4K0G_8

Crossover j. MK, Dwn MP, xx QCF+K hold K, Dwn HK
5 hit dizzy on Feilong

Does that combo work on everyone?

If so, I'm going to use it, because I normally use Crossover MK, Stand HP, xx QCF+K which is a 3 or 4 hitter, that doesn't always dizzy.

Thanks in advance.

[Sanjuro_The_Ronin]

Ken is kinda my main in ST, with Blanka second

Ken's combo here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3o7N4K0G_8

Crossover j. MK, Dwn MP, xx QCF+K hold K, Dwn HK
5 hit dizzy on Feilong

Does that combo work on everyone?

If so, I'm going to use it, because I normally use Crossover MK, Stand HP, xx QCF+K which is a 3 or 4 hitter, that doesn't always dizzy.

Thanks in advance.

j.forward cross-up, standing fierce into fierce dragon is a better dizzy, even though it dosent work on small characters.

[lftrpllr]

Ken is kinda my main in ST, with Blanka second

Ken's combo here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3o7N4K0G_8

Crossover j. MK, Dwn MP, xx QCF+K hold K, Dwn HK
5 hit dizzy on Feilong

Does that combo work on everyone?

If so, I'm going to use it, because I normally use Crossover MK, Stand HP, xx QCF+K which is a 3 or 4 hitter, that doesn't always dizzy.

Thanks in advance.

The above mentioned combo only works on: Zangief and Fei Long and you can substitute short xx qcf+k (hold kick) and then the combo works on Guile as well.
A little known fun fact is that you can actually substitute low hk for a SUPER (4 hits) against Fei. Yes, that's right you can do: Crossover j. MK, Dwn MP, xx QCF+K hold K, super for a 8-hit 'showtime' combo. Give it a try.

-wes

[EndLeSS8]

Hey guys, thanks a lot for the info, I'll try it out when I get home.

So.... what's the best combo for dizzy that works on ALL characters?
I always feel that Ken's QCF+K (2 hits) gives more stun damage than HP Dragon.

And wow...lol, what's wrong with Fei's hitbox to allow all these combos on him? :lol: It's not like he's a big or wide character.

I use Fei also, but because I don't have a joystick I can't do his Chicken Wing consistently.

[lftrpllr]

Hey guys, thanks a lot for the info, I'll try it out when I get home.

So.... what's the best combo for dizzy that works on ALL characters?
I always feel that Ken's QCF+K (2 hits) gives more stun damage than HP Dragon.

And wow...lol, what's wrong with Fei's hitbox to allow all these combos on him? :lol: It's not like he's a big or wide character.

I use Fei also, but because I don't have a joystick I can't do his Chicken Wing consistently.

I assume you're kidding. Fei sticks his face WAY out to get combo'ed, he's the biggest character in the game. I actually made a point of this when changes for Fei were being discussed for SF:HD. I wanted to fix Fei's crazy hit box and the fact that everyone crosses him up for free. If they fixed his hitbox (which is apparently too hard to do for SF:HD), Fei would be a hulluva lot better, count of him to still suck in SF:HD-

-wes

[SweetJohnnyV]

And wow...lol, what's wrong with Fei's hitbox to allow all these combos on him? :lol: It's not like he's a big or wide character.

It's those MC Hammer pants :rofl:

[EndLeSS8]

I assume you're kidding. Fei sticks his face WAY out to get combo'ed, he's the biggest character in the game. I actually made a point of this when changes for Fei were being discussed for SF:HD. I wanted to fix Fei's crazy hit box and the fact that everyone crosses him up for free. If they fixed his hitbox (which is apparently too hard to do for SF:HD), Fei would be a hulluva lot better, count of him to still suck in SF:HD-

-wes

I knew Fei had a strange hitbox, but I didn't know he was the biggest character in the game.

Do you have hitboxes? I want to check this out myself.

[ShinVega]

So.... what's the best combo for dizzy that works on ALL characters?
I always feel that Ken's QCF+K (2 hits) gives more stun