What to Teach [Archive]

LiSyaoran

08-30-2006, 10:46 AM

If you had to teach a class room full of people how to play street fighter (3s mainly), what lessons would you address and in what order? I'm thinking you would teach terms first so people don't get confused when you say "half center away strong" and there definations. Then probubly execution of moves so you don't have people that can't do a double quarter circle toward correctly.
What else would you teach.

Dark Geese

08-30-2006, 11:00 AM

Oh boy..I am a classroom teacher literally..I love teaching people the material and videogames. You gotta start with the basics..motions, buttons, old school ST stuff..gotta make sure they can even do a fireball first...Start super small..

And take time to teach them..don't overwhelm them..I'd love to teach fighting games..I do this in my spare time anyways...And am about to have my own class here at work...:lovin:

4649

08-30-2006, 11:01 AM

Never parry on wakeup

Run away from Yun when he has meter

Don't poke at Ken when he has meter

Don't get into a poking battle with Chun ( or to encompass all that, how to fight top tiers and not feel frustrated by how broken they are....this covers all fighting games, actually )

Play defensively but aggressively; achieve a balance of rushdown and defense

know your combos / tactics / blockstrings / what your character is really capable of

MakavelianKode

08-30-2006, 11:04 AM

Street Fighter II

kainzero

08-30-2006, 11:06 AM

strong fierce super

LiSyaoran

08-30-2006, 11:21 AM

Dark Geese

08-30-2006, 11:43 AM

I could give you some a little later.

LiSyaoran

08-30-2006, 11:46 AM

I could give you some a little later.
yeah, dat sounds goood *ladys man axe*

Thongboy Bebop

08-30-2006, 11:50 AM

LiSyaoran

08-30-2006, 12:05 PM

Show my video!

Ha, seriously though, people need to learn the basic precepts of fighting games (like World Warrior basics) before they get into a system as complicated as 3s. If they don't understand 2d fighting in the first place, the reason parrying changed fireball/uppercut traps forever will be a little lost on them.

If you're going for just an overall "fighting games" primer, use the most basic game you can. 3s is a good reference for how something that seems small (parrying) changes the whole way a game is played, but people need to learn basic things like how combos work and why spacing is important before they get into the nitty-gritty of higher level system mechanics.

N
Right.
I thinking of a list right now of things to teach and in what order. If anyone wants to make sure I don't forget anything, go ahead and include mwhat you think should be addressed as well.

Also, one of the other main games Ill be addressing is Garou: Mark of the Wolves. Both games are great, and represent fighting games best

Hugo Boss

08-30-2006, 03:12 PM

3s School! (http://www.bitterharmony.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1349)

:D

Daigohji

08-30-2006, 03:46 PM

3S is probably a good choice for teaching 2D fighting basics, since the System Direction menus give you so much flexibility in customising the game. For the first lesson I recommend you turn as much off as you can: supers, parry, EX moves, everything. Don't even let them use specials. If the students are completely new to 2D fighters then just getting used to the six button setup is going to take a while. When you're trying to structure your lessons, and certainly if your working to a set timeframe, you don't want someone interrupting with "what's that blue flashy thing?" or "why did he turn yellow?" every five seconds before they've even got the hang of basic offense and defence.

Have them all using the same character initially, probably a basic shoto would be best. Have them start with exercises of alternating one person attacking, another defending so they can get a feel for the reach of different moves and how long it take to recover. I think that if you let them see how much there is just to using punches and kicks, they'll be less likely to spend entire matches spamming fireballs once you let them onto specials and supers. Keep it all nicely segmented: "This is feature X; these are it's strengths and weaknesses... This is feature Y...," that kind of thing.

Pat the Great

08-30-2006, 06:27 PM

jae hoon

08-30-2006, 07:20 PM

3S is the worst SF to teach someone with, it plays completely different from every other SF game.

Overworld

08-30-2006, 08:05 PM

If you're taking people that have no prior experience in playing fighting games, you're going to have to go ahead and choose which game to teach them first. If you want to teach them 3s, you surely could, I know people who started there and have grown to be fine players, it's just you can't teach a bunch of people who don't know about the genre a group of games at the same time. So first, pick a game.

Of course terminology should be covered, overheads, buffering, etc, though introduce the terms as you are teaching what they refer to.

Also, are these people going to be playing on pads, or joysticks? My guess if they don't know how to play fighting games is that they'd be initially more comfortable with pads and it may be easier to teach them that way if they've got zero experience, but many would advocate teaching them joysticks (you know, in case they ever walk into a wormhole and come out in an arcade) since they are the preffered method of inputting commands. If you do decide joysticks, and they don't know how to use joysticks much more time would have to be spent on execution, getting used to joysticks as opposed to pads, etc.

Whatever game your teaching, if you want to help players along more quickly, you're going to have to eventually give general tips (or in depth if you know enough) about characters in specific. (Also I would not make everyone initially aware of tiers, because you never know you may be sitting on someone who will turn out to be a great Elena or Alex or something. If Tiers are introduces early, everyone will just pick K/Y/C. Though I'd expect Ken and Chun to get picks just because people not familiar with playing the games may still recognize those two...Akuma, maybe.)

But just remember that generally you're going to have to go slowly, for some it'll click early, others will still be having trouble getting their supers to come out when they want.

Spralwers

08-30-2006, 09:49 PM

whenever i teach anyone how to play street fighter, or any other fighting game, i start by picking up super turbo and showing them the fireball trap.

super turbo has high/low mixups, throws and throw techs, and supers. i'd say it's the best place to start.

^^ There you go. Teach ST instead of 3S, if possible. ST has all the basics, and it's really easy to pick up, and still has deep gameplay at higher levels. 3S is quite a bit different, and alot more complicated.

VI The Sixth

08-30-2006, 10:17 PM

3s School! (http://www.bitterharmony.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1349)

:D
LMAO!

Is this for real?

spudlyff8fan

08-30-2006, 10:58 PM

In my time with UBER scrubs, the two things that they all seem to not know is 1) priority and 2) when NOT to do a move (like SRKing after a block).

LiSyaoran

08-31-2006, 04:04 AM

Yeah, the one thing that they don't know is whats safe and what isn't.

Ok cool. Glad to get some feedback.

I do understand everyones view on teaching SSF2X opposed to 3s, but they want to learn 3s, thats there chose.

Dark Geese

08-31-2006, 04:53 AM

Make them learn old school first..tell them the sooner they learn the old school the faster they learn 3s..

evilmuffinmanX

08-31-2006, 05:02 AM

if your going to teach 3S then teach 3S.

SF2 series is another ballgame,might aswell teach T5...

steve=yun
nina=chun
bryan=ken
:nunchuck:

Anoma1y

08-31-2006, 05:06 AM

It sounds like you guys do a lot of teaching when you can. Do you normally get a group together in the same place for your lessons or is it easier to teach over XBL?

Jushiness

08-31-2006, 05:08 AM

when i teach a friend how to play 3s i always teach them basics of how to do qcf, dp, hcf, qcf x 2, charge attacks, 360s, 720s, explain the 6 button style [if they cant grasp that themselves] then how to throw and overhead, explain the uses of the overhead. show them the taunt and what it does [depending on what character they decide to use] then i explain how the supers work, how to use them, show them the best one to use for their character [unless its yun or yang.. >>; in which case they have to look up the combos cause i cant help them] then teach them the basic combos for their characters, explain tick throwing, kara canceling [though i cant do it myself i can explain what it is] explain footsies/spacing, priority, range, speed, power, anti air, mind games, wake up games, juggling, explain good and bad match ups and the rest after that is pretty much teaching themselves and experience

though i am a scrub so me teaching some one is bad to begin with XD i still got a lot to learn myself

LiSyaoran

08-31-2006, 05:23 AM

It sounds like you guys do a lot of teaching when you can. Do you normally get a group together in the same place for your lessons or is it easier to teach over XBL?

I teach at my home. I got like 5 to 6 people right now so..

Jushiness

08-31-2006, 05:34 AM

I teach at my home. I got like 5 to 6 people right now so..

lucky >.< i wish i could get that many people interested... i only have 3 people that play [from my school], and only one actualy wants to get serious about it... the other two just talk shit about how they are gonna kick my ass. then they come over get perfected and STILL dont want to pay attention to what i'm telling them

Anoma1y

08-31-2006, 05:49 AM

lucky >.< i wish i could get that many people interested... i only have 3 people that play [from my school], and only one actualy wants to get serious about it... the other two just talk shit about how they are gonna kick my ass. then they come over get perfected and STILL dont want to pay attention to what i'm telling them

That's too bad. I'd love to learn but I'm having trouble finding locals that play.

Jushiness

08-31-2006, 05:53 AM

That's too bad. I'd love to learn but I'm having trouble finding locals that play.

well i could teach you what i can through aim and xbl if you'd like n.n i'm scrub compared so a lot of the srk 3s players but i'm not that bad o.O [xbl i can only play every other weekend. though it just so happens that this weekend is one of those weekends

Anoma1y

08-31-2006, 06:10 AM

well i could teach you what i can through aim and xbl if you'd like n.n i'm scrub compared so a lot of the srk 3s players but i'm not that bad o.O [xbl i can only play every other weekend. though it just so happens that this weekend is one of those weekends

I don't think I'll have the game by this weekend - that's kind of why I was asking about XBL, because I can't decide which system to pick up SF: AE for: PS2 or Xbox?

Back on topic, I think learning the terminology would be key but priority and technique is what seems more interesting to learn.

Jushiness

08-31-2006, 06:13 AM

I don't think I'll have the game by this weekend - that's kind of why I was asking about XBL, because I can't decide which system to pick up SF: AE for: PS2 or Xbox?

Back on topic, I think learning the terminology would be key but priority and technique is what seems more interesting to learn.

well do you have aim? my sn is jushiness

just IM me and i'll teach ya

also if you have an xbox i would suggest getting the xbox version. might as well get the one that has online play.

LiSyaoran

08-31-2006, 06:18 AM

Back on topic, I think learning the terminology would be key but priority and technique is what seems more interesting to learn.
Just like a Martial Art though, learning the basics, even if its boring, is very important

Anoma1y

08-31-2006, 06:27 AM

Was thinking about picking up the SF: AC guide too. I've heard some good things about it from these boards.

You could probably find a lot of good teaching tips there too.

Jushiness

08-31-2006, 06:32 AM

Was thinking about picking up the SF: AC guide too. I've heard some good things about it from these boards.

You could probably find a lot of good teaching tips there too.

yep its a great book to get. i learned a lot from it o.o though i still dont understand kara throwing.. i cant do it x.x i understand the concept and how to do it but i just cant do it

shortshortsuper

08-31-2006, 06:33 AM

a) a lot of field trips

b) watch a lot of movies

LiSyaoran

08-31-2006, 06:40 AM

Wow, could you 2 like PM each other instead of talking in this thread, Fuck

Jushiness

08-31-2006, 06:45 AM

Wow, could you 2 like PM each other instead of talking in this thread, Fuck

i told him to IM me >.< not my fault sorry

LiSyaoran

08-31-2006, 06:48 AM

a) a lot of field trips

b) watch a lot of movies
a) EVO, ECC, TS

b) Japanese Match Vids

Honest Monk

08-31-2006, 07:22 AM

Hey Street Fighter DX

...how about that Range, Speed, and Priority business?

Let them choose a character, learn their moves and normals while you teach them the finer things such as theory from Domination 101 and Sirlin. Allow them to choose a partner each week or a group to train with and let them practice with that group, allowing them to learn their opponent's moves and develop tactics. Then, each week, reassign them groups with a team match casual at its end.

Invite a guest or two who's a vet occassionally to talk to them about fighting games.

LiSyaoran

08-31-2006, 07:55 AM

...how about that Range, Speed, and Priority business?
Well providing there importance, and noteing that thoughs are factors when it comes to determining what normals are the best, then yes, of course.
I mean there is absolutly no reason what so ever that some one would use Dudleys C.:hp: over his S.:hk:

Thongboy Bebop

08-31-2006, 10:52 AM

Well providing there importance, and noteing that thoughs are factors when it comes to determining what normals are the best, then yes, of course.
I mean there is absolutly no reason what so ever that some one would use Dudleys S.:hp: over his S.:hk:
Err. How about because it comes out faster and has hella better reach in poking?

If you're going to teach people, you should probably know what you're talking about first, hey?

N

LiSyaoran

08-31-2006, 10:59 AM

Err. How about because it comes out faster and has hella better reach in poking?

If you're going to teach people, you should probably know what you're talking about first, hey?

N
Actually, I meant C.:hp:, not S.:hp:. My bad.

spudlyff8fan

08-31-2006, 11:31 AM

Err. How about because it comes out faster and has hella better reach in poking?

If you're going to teach people, you should probably know what you're talking about first, hey?

N

Obviously it was a typo.

Thongboy Bebop

08-31-2006, 11:42 AM

Obviously it was a typo.
I don't assume.

I didn't mean for that to sound as mean as it may have, I'm just saying, there's a use for pretty much everything a character has. Every single crappy little move comes in handy at some point, so I feel it's bad form to instruct people to completely disregard one in all cases. Crouching fierce with Dud is useful as a quick-recovering anti-air against several characters (it kinda owns up Twelve, SHHH!) as it has much better coverage over Dudley's head than standing RH. You shouldn't teach people how to play like you, rather show them what's possible and let them come to their own conclusions.

N

LiSyaoran

08-31-2006, 12:03 PM

I don't assume.

I didn't mean for that to sound as mean as it may have, I'm just saying, there's a use for pretty much everything a character has. Every single crappy little move comes in handy at some point, so I feel it's bad form to instruct people to completely disregard one in all cases. Crouching fierce with Dud is useful as a quick-recovering anti-air against several characters (it kinda owns up Twelve, SHHH!) as it has much better coverage over Dudley's head than standing RH. You shouldn't teach people how to play like you, rather show them what's possible and let them come to their own conclusions.

N
His S.:mk: is better as an anti-air really....

But anyway. Im still working on a spread sheet.

Honest Monk

08-31-2006, 12:35 PM

Err. How about because it comes out faster and has hella better reach in poking?

If you're going to teach people, you should probably know what you're talking about first, hey?

N

Hey Thong! Bear Ryoma wants his SF 3rd Strike Tut video vol 2! And so do I!!:lol:

shoo

09-27-2006, 05:17 PM

id start by teaching them simple hand joystick movements

tiger knee's
cr.mk into srk
special cancel into super

simple things

things like that shold be almost 2nd nature to an average player

Shag

09-28-2006, 10:05 AM

I've taught complete novices how to play fighting games. :china:

First of all, all you guys fail. No one has mentioned teaching them how to BLOCK! :lol:

But seriously, I assume the people you are teaching have NEVER played a fighting game before.

First you show them the concept of the game: to get your opponents life down to zero or have more life when time runs out. Show them the different gauges: life meter, stun meter, super meter.

Then you teach them how to move: walk forward, back, crouching, jumping, and then later on dashing and super jump. Explain how each character moves differently: foot speed, jump lengths etc. Then you want to explain the properties of moving, crouching and blocking. Don't show them how to parry right away.

Then you want to show them how to attack. Show what each button can do in every state: neutral, forward, crouching, jumping up and moving jump. You want to start with the jab button (or weak punch: define a terminology for each button) followed by short until you reach the roundhouse button. Then show them that some moves will come out when very close to an opponent. Also explain the properties of each attack, have them notice the speed and recovery of each attack. Can it be blocked high or low?

After they learn each individual button, show them the moves that require multiple button presses: throw, UO and taunt.

That's lesson 1. I think you can follow up after that but if you want more I'll post more stuff later. Hoped I helped a little. :razzy:

Carmen

09-28-2006, 06:32 PM

Smart stuff Shag, I was thinking the same thing. You want to start REALLY small with just fundemental rules, and blocking is an important thing to do right away. Don't even think about specials if they can't fight with normals or if they can't block, for that matter.

Se7in

09-28-2006, 06:42 PM

I would start by making them define the basic terms (Zoning, Blocking, Anti-air, rolling, charing, canceling, etc.).

After that, we'd start with basics like jumping, moving, dashing, and blocking.

Then we'd start learning the basics of each punch and kick and determining its usefulness and why it's useful in certain situations.

Then we'd move to the harder parts (for them) like rolling moves and using them in situations. Eventually we move on to supers.

After that, we start actual matches and get players to use everything they've learned so far.

The next lesson would be parrying, which would take long enough.

The rest of the lessons would be more advanced tactics such as combos, zoning, turtling, footsies, and mind games.

Along with learning these things, as much sparring as possible would be encouraged.

glass

09-29-2006, 10:22 AM

i'd start with ground game, e.g. the shoto "sweet zone".

the sweet zone is that range (around sweep range) where a shoto dances back and forth and baits you to whiff some move (e.g. a sweep), so they can punish with a sweep, or in the case of 3S, c.FK xx super.

footsies are a pretty large part of SF. once they understand footsies with low roundhouse, you extend to footsies with fireballs, psychic jumps over fireballs, dashes into throws, high/low mixups, psychic DPs, etc.

i'd even go so far as to NOT teach how to do the technique before when; e.g. the best time to teach how to do a fireball is when they understand the right situation to do the fireball in (e.g. to punish someone who was baited into whiffing a normal just outside sweep range).

ST, or HF (for 'no super' training) are really much better training grounds because they're bare bones games without the embellishments, and the sooner they learn these (as mentioned) the faster they'll grasp the fundamentals. then the parries, combo technique, etc start to make much more sense.