Random (Mostly) Useless Trivia

[Maj]

Figured i'd start a thread to gather obscure knowledge. Since this is just for fun, there probably won't be much in terms of frame data or engine analysis. This is more about random things that you notice while playing.

I'll start with something i've been noticing lately. Everyone knows that if you're crouching and you get hit by a special move, it forces you into standing hit stun. The minor exceptions are the non-knockdown flame projectiles - Ryu's red FB and Dhalsim's LP FB. I think there's only one attack in the game that can force a standing opponent into crouching hitstun and that's the first hit of Ken's fierce DP. You can try it out against one of Dhalsim's limbs if you want.

However, the weirdest thing is that hitting Honda or Blanka twice in a row while they are crouching forces them into standing hitstun. Anytime you do a combo against them, the first hit puts them into crouching hitstun and the second hit takes them into standing hitstun. In fact it doesn't even have to be a combo. As long as you do two hits in quick succession, the second hit will make them stand up even if it doesn't combo. I tested out all the characters and this only seems to apply to Honda and Blanka. I'm pretty sure this goes all the way back to the CPS1 games.

[~TeN~]

actually ya now that i think of it I always remembered blanka in all versions going into stand stun after consecutive hits

[Footsy Bebop]

More random stuff.

The guy in the background on the Chun Li stage who is "choking his chicken" is actually Chun's pimp.

Also, the guy on the boat on the Ken stage looks just like a guy I used to go to high school with.

[oyg]

In Street Fighter II' Rainbow Edition, E.Honda prefers to transform into Guile and if he's really low on health he'll turn into Balrog (boxer) and try to spam his rushing punches at you.

[TarkanX]

Is it true that in SF2 (all games), hitting an opponent while they are crouched or in the air deals more damage than hitting an opponent while standing?

[jchensor]

I know that hitting people while crouching produces much longer hit reels than while Standing. Not sure about damage, though.

- James
http://jchensor.blogspot.com

[NKI]

Against Zangief and T.Hawk only, Cammy's cr.Jab and cr.Strong hit low.

Is it true that in SF2 (all games), hitting an opponent while they are crouched or in the air deals more damage than hitting an opponent while standing?Not true.

[margalis]

Dhalsim's drills can be blocked low from the right distance, and IIRC can also hit low. (As in you have to block them low - not 100% sure on that second one)

Blanka's parabolic ball attack can hit 3 times.

[felineki]

Uber random and pointless: During one of the frames of Akuma's blocking animation, a part of his hair disappears. :P The graphics for the missing bit of hair actually ARE in the graphics data, the programmers just neglected to include it with the rest of the tiles in the animation data.

His "fiery" animation plays in the incorrect order, too. I'm sure you've noticed how odd and jerky it looks compared to the Alpha games. All the same frames as the Alpha version are there in the graphics data, they just play in the wrong order. Guess the coders got a little sloppy. :P

Not exactly ST, but still SF2-related: You've probably noticed that Ryu and Ken's "arm raised" victory pose got redrawn in CE (and I can understand why... the WW one looks pretty ridiculous), but their knockdown animation got redrawn as well, although I'm not sure why.

[cam347]

More random stuff.

The guy in the background on the Chun Li stage who is "choking his chicken" is actually Chun's pimp.

Also, the guy on the boat on the Ken stage looks just like a guy I used to go to high school with.

HOLY SHIT! U went to high school with Q?!:wow:

[Maj]

I'm 99% sure that HP Sonic Boom does a pixel more damage than MP Sonic Boom which does a pixel more damage than LP Sonic Boom. Of course there is a random factor to damage so any move can suddenly do way more damage than it's supposed to.

[NKI]

Maj - Yeah, the random damage makes it really hard to tell. I was working on a small project (ST randomness vid), and I have a clip of the exact same combo in the exact same situation doing two totally different amounts of damage.

Maybe I should actually finish that project...? :sad:

[A_Wolfe]

I made this game a long time ago but thought it was fitting for this thread. ;) Enjoy.

SF Trivia Game (http://www.airwolfe.com/)

Remember, you are Akuma not Ryu. You are trying to kill ryu.

- Alex

P.S. I can change the Questions from an external file. So if you guys have some good trivia questions, let me know. lol.

[jchensor]

Hey, Alex. Was messing with the trivia thing a bit. Spoiler for one question, but I'm trying to figure out how Alpha 1 was the first game with Guard Damage? Are you counting the Easy Mode Guard Blocking counter thing? They don't seem to be quite the same thing to me.

- James
http://jchensor.blogspot.com

[A_Wolfe]

Hey, Alex. Was messing with the trivia thing a bit. Spoiler for one question, but I'm trying to figure out how Alpha 1 was the first game with Guard Damage? Are you counting the Easy Mode Guard Blocking counter thing? They don't seem to be quite the same thing to me.

- James
http://jchensor.blogspot.com

Lol, glad you checked it out. Yea, probably a mistake :lovin: But if you see anymore let me know. :)

-Alex

[felineki]

Nice trivia game, A_Wolfe! You might want to see about eliminating questions from the pool after they've been asked, though. On my first play, I got the same question twice in a row on two occasions. On my second play through, I got a question that had no text whatsoever, just blank spaces for the question and all 3 answers. O_o

And I'd definitely like to see that randomness video should you decide to finish it, NKI. Your videos are always great. You mentioned you were also considering doing a video displaying the ways the AI breaks the engine rules at one point, right?

[Myfacehurts24]

maybe I'm wrong but, it asks when SF2 was released in america, isn't it 1992? I had to put 89 to get the answer correct.

[A_Wolfe]

maybe I'm wrong but, it asks when SF2 was released in america, isn't it 1992? I had to put 89 to get the answer correct.

Yeah, I made this trivia game like 3 yrs ago, and I'm certain some of them are wrong. If anyone wants to make me some real questions, I would be more than happy to put them in. I need 20 to make it complete. :lovin:

- Alex

[Maj]

Cool idea. How do you activate Akuma's super after you win? I tried clicking on the super bar but that did nothing.

[NKI]

And I'd definitely like to see that randomness video should you decide to finish it, NKI. Your videos are always great. You mentioned you were also considering doing a video displaying the ways the AI breaks the engine rules at one point, right?OK, I guess I'll finish that one then. It will probably only be about a minute long, though.

And yeah, I was thinking about doing a vid that shows all the impossible stuff the computer does, but I dunno...I think it would waste too much time to just sit around waiting for the computer to do what I want. :confused:

[Maj]

Ever wondered what's up with those crazy Time Over finishes you seen in ST videos? (If you don't know what i'm talking about, check out the Chun combo at 2:44 in NKI's Volume IX (http://nki.combovideos.com/).)

Notice how Dhalsim has more life than Chun Li when time runs out. That amount will be compared to Chun's lifebar to determine the winner. However, the game still keeps track of damage after time runs out. So all those hits that happen after time runs out still hurt Dhalsim, and when they "kill" Dhalsim you get the fancy super explosion. In fact at the end of the clip, you see Dhalsim get up and win the match, but he receives 0 bonus points for Vitality (along with 0 bonus points for Time).

Now let's say that Chun Li had a little bit more life. Time runs out right before the first hit of Chun Li's super connects, but that hit is enough to "kill" Dhalsim. The first hit would cause the super KO explosion but it would have knocked Dhalsim down and the rest of the super would have whiffed (since nothing juggles in ST after the opponent dies). So Dhalsim would be lying dead on the ground (even though his lifebar shows that he has a little bit of life left), Chun Li would go into her win animation, and she would be declared the winner.

Now let's say that the last s.MP before time over had hurt Dhalsim enough to tie their lifebar amounts. The first hit of Chun's super would have knocked Dhalsim down and the rest of it would have whiffed (since nothing juggles in ST after the opponent dies). However, oddly enough, there wouldn't be a super KO explosion in the case of a draw. So then Dhalsim would be lying dead on the ground, Chun Li would go into her losing animation, and the match would be declared a Draw Game.

However, since Dhalsim technically wins the match, the rules say that he has to do his victory pose. The game can't just let him die. So believe it or not, the only reason he gets hit by that whole super is so that he can get up again and do his win animation.

[Desk]

You can be hit by fei's flame kick but not be set on fire. There's a small window at the end of his animation where his foot isn't on fire but it can still hit you.

Also NKI, I would also love to see an ST randomness vid or anything relating to ST actually, lol :)

[Maj]

James Chen was trying to put that into a combo at one point, using some fancy Dhalsim teleport setup. He claimed he was able to link after it in the SNES version of SSF2 or something random like that. I can't remember what video project he was going to use it for, but he probably ran out of time.

[jchensor]

Yeah, it was for the 2-Hit. Fei Long has that one frame where he kicks backwards. My friend found it out one day when Dhalsim teleported behind Fei Long, and he nailed him with that kick. Since then, we all lovingly referred to it as the "Mystery Kick."

My goal was to do a Short Dragon Kick and land the Mystery Kick on a grounded opponent and do another Mystery Kick right away. But it didn't work on the Arcade one as he actually has some more recovery there. On the SNES one, however, I am 100% positive we landed Mystery Kick, Standing Short XX Short-Dragon Kick for a three hit.

- James
http://jchensor.blogspot.com

[Desk]

LOL, that's too weird. I've been trying to do some tool assisted combo's on ST and that was the first thing I tried to do, lol. I couldn't come up with anything though, nothing seems to connect. I even tried hitting someone out of the air and juggling with his super/chicken wing but they can't be juggled after it unfortunately :(

So is there absolutely no way to do it on arcade ST? even if you were able to hit them backwards (so they reeled towards you)?

[felineki]

Against Zangief and T.Hawk only, Cammy's cr.Jab and cr.Strong hit low.Very interesting. I've noticed that in many Capcom games, characters tend to have "high", "mid", and "low" receiving boxes, and I've seen the same attack send an opponent into either the "high" (hit in the face) or "low" (hit in the stomach) reel animation depending on where it actually hits.

I suppose it's possible that an attack that comes into contact with -only- the low receiving box has to be crouch-blocked or else it will hit? Most attacks that have to be crouch-blocked hit right at ground level, so they would obviously hit the low box of any standing character. But since Zangief and T. Hawk are taller, I suppose their low boxes might extend higher up than the other characters, making it possible for attacks somewhat higher off the ground like Cammy's c.lp and c.mp to hit them while missing the mid box.

EDIT: It appears this actually is how it works. By using ArtMoney to mess with character position values, I put Ryu below the "ground", so that most of his standing attacks would hit about foot level. They would hit if high-blocked, but crouch-blokcing worked. I remember someone mentioned that Dhalsim's drills have to be crouch-blocked if aimed at the lower part of the opponent's body. This only seems to apply to ground attacks, but Dhalsim's drills act like ground attacks anyway (they aren't overheads).

[Desk]

Yeah, it was for the 2-Hit. Fei Long has that one frame where he kicks backwards. My friend found it out one day when Dhalsim teleported behind Fei Long, and he nailed him with that kick. Since then, we all lovingly referred to it as the "Mystery Kick."

My goal was to do a Short Dragon Kick and land the Mystery Kick on a grounded opponent and do another Mystery Kick right away. But it didn't work on the Arcade one as he actually has some more recovery there. On the SNES one, however, I am 100% positive we landed Mystery Kick, Standing Short XX Short-Dragon Kick for a three hit.

- James
http://jchensor.blogspot.com

Yeah, it definately works on the SNES version, that's a sweet find. Would it be hugely unreasonable to ask if I could use that set-up myself in a combo vid? You would be credited... :sweat: Also there are a few other interesting console only combo's that I don't think have appeared in any videos.

[jchensor]

Heh, sure. Go for it. Would be nice to finally see that thing used somewhere. Goodness knows I will probably never pop int the SNES version ever again. ^_^

Oh, and by the way, a good rule of thumb with ST: the only moves that can set up Juggles are moves taht are Juggles themselves. If the move doesn't Juggle, you can't Juggle after it.

- James
http://jchensor.blogspot.com

[Goryus]

Some more random stuff...

If you hit with the last frame of DeeJay's cr. roundhouse (for example, when done reaaaally meaty), it doesn't knock down, and it hits mid.

If you hit with the last frame of any move that stays out for more than 1 frame, your opponent won't get pushed back (and, if you're in the corner, it won't push you back). This makes combos like meaty st. forward, st. fierce xx fierce fireball work with Ryu. Also, meaty close st. roundhouse (2 hit), link cr. roundhouse (or low forward xx FB, but the FB doesn't combo).

When Chun starts her SBK, there's a frame or two right at the beginning when she's upside down, but can still be thrown. Looks very weird.

If ken does his qcf + k (Hold) move as most characters are getting up, he passes through them winds up on the other side.

DeeJay's cr. roundhouse can slide under sonic booms...but only if timed perfectly, and only when the slide also hits Guile.

Cammy's cannon spike and Sagat's tiger uppercut can go through projectiles, but only when they hit the character who threw it.

[Maj]

If you hit with the last frame of any move that stays out for more than 1 frame, your opponent won't get pushed back (and, if you're in the corner, it won't push you back). This makes combos like meaty st. forward, st. fierce xx fierce fireball work with Ryu. Also, meaty close st. roundhouse (2 hit), link cr. roundhouse (or low forward xx FB, but the FB doesn't combo).
This is misleading. There's always pushback, regardless of how meaty you do your attack. The only advantage that you get from doing extremely meaty attacks is less of a gap between the meaty attack and the next attack. Since Capcom fighting games have no "pushback memory" the only thing that counts is where the characters were when the last attack connected.

In otherwords, let's say c.MP causes 15 pixels of pushback and s.HP causes 20 pixels of pushback. Normally there's such a long gap during that link that the entire pushback from c.MP occurs long before the pushback from s.HP begins. However, if you do c.MP meaty enough, you can connect with s.HP while the characters are still being pushed apart. If you connect with s.HP when the c.MP has caused 10 pixels of pushback, the remaining 5 pixels are simply ignored. That's what i meant by no "pushback memory."

DeeJay's cr. roundhouse can slide under sonic booms...but only if timed perfectly, and only when the slide also hits Guile.

Cammy's cannon spike and Sagat's tiger uppercut can go through projectiles, but only when they hit the character who threw it.
All of these cases happen because hit impacts occupy time. When DeeJay's c.HK connects, it freezes both characters for something like 13 frames. These hit impact freezes never affect projectiles and in fact projectiles don't freeze the attacking character the way all non-projectile attacks do. In these examples, it freezes the attacker during either an invincible frame or a "check it out i can fit under a projectile" frame. This should also work if the opponent blocks. For example, if Guile does LP Sonic Boom from full screen away and walks after it, Fei Long's Flame Kick should be able to make it through the Sonic Boom even if Guile walks up and blocks it at the last second.

[felineki]

Just another bit of trivia to show how weird WW truly was compared to the SF we know and love today:

In WW, characters will sometimes randomly auto block. It happens ~1/500 of the time according to T.Akiba's page. I personally experienced this the other day while messing around in WW with Kawaks. I had P2 just standing there as a "dummy", but all of a sudden he blocked one of my jabs.

Similarly, a single button press will sometimes trigger a special move in WW, with no motion required. It also happens ~1/500 of the time, IIRC.

[dialupsucky]

not sure if this is what you the abover posts are talking about but umm acctualy depending on how you time a meaty attack you are pushed back less IIRC. Say ryu does axe kick(both hits mind you) to someone normaly, after that he isnt close enough to link a attack after it, though certainly he could if he was in range. However if you time it so the first hit is a meaty attack you'll be in distance to combo after it, even though you still hit BOTH hits of the attack. Hell dont even combo after it just to see it, the distance you get pushed away is different depending on how you timed the attack.


Or if this is what is being said never mind my post, frame data bs confuses me shrug.


As for the fei long kick, if people were still trying to get it, when I played I was able to get it useing the move as a ghetto cross up anti air. So if you need another set up to try, maybe useing that one will work.

[Maj]

Actually that Ryu axe kick isn't any different. Doing it meaty reduces the gap between the first hit and the second hit. Since there's less time between hits, there's less time for the pushback from the first hit to play out. So in the same way as the low strong, low fierce example above, reducing the gap between hits = less total pushback.

[Duck Strong]

All of these cases happen because hit impacts occupy time. When DeeJay's c.HK connects, it freezes both characters for something like 13 frames. These hit impact freezes never affect projectiles and in fact projectiles don't freeze the attacking character the way all non-projectile attacks do. In these examples, it freezes the attacker during either an invincible frame or a "check it out i can fit under a projectile" frame. This should also work if the opponent blocks. For example, if Guile does LP Sonic Boom from full screen away and walks after it, Fei Long's Flame Kick should be able to make it through the Sonic Boom even if Guile walks up and blocks it at the last second.

You've piqued a thought in me.

I dunno if it has been elaborated on before, but I don't recall.. ? Do you, or does anyone else, know the specifics of what happens when an projectile connects?

What is posted above explains much, and is well appreciated trust me! But I'm still left wondering why it appears that the fireballer's buttons are turned off during the projectile-hit-slowdown thing...

I'm sure we've all had that frustation when mashing the buttons during the projectile slowdown but to only end up in in failure. :sad:

[Maj]

Yeah i know what you're talking about. Sometimes i'm doing j.HP, s.HP xx Sonic Boom then holding forward while mashing HP, and Guile will actually walk all the way up and throw the opponent. It sucks.

When a projectile connects, the game slows down by a certain factor. I'm estimating that it slows down to roughly half speed. So basically it's showing every frame twice. Button inputs seem to get ignored on duplicate frames. This makes sense because otherwise you might have way more many inputs than the game is designed to handle. So during projectile hit slowdown there's a 50% chance that any given button press won't register.

You're gonna have to make the remaining deductions for yourself because the exact details are anyone's guess. For example it's pretty safe to assume that holding a direction keeps a steady input to that direction, which allows you to charge uninterrupted through this period. But holding a button doesn't seem to raise the success rate at all. Also, let's say you knew exactly which frame was going acknowledge inputs and which frame was going to ignore them. Could you charge back, go to neutral on a frame that gets ignored, and hold back again on the next frame without losing charge? Logic says you should be able to do this, but in fact the right answer is who cares.

The bottom line, as far as i know, is that there's no way around this problem. If you're trying to do fancy projectile combos, you just have to live with the fact that you gotta get lucky for it to work. In other words, if your combo contains two instances of this problem, then there's only a 25% chance that it'll succeed. So you have to pull it off perfectly four times for it to work once. That's why you don't try TZW combos unless you're recording cuz you might not be able to get it to work again. On the other hand, if this problem didn't exist, a lot of TZW corner combos would be practical and that would hurt game balance.

[NKI]

Could you charge back, go to neutral on a frame that gets ignored, and hold back again on the next frame without losing charge? Logic says you should be able to do this, but in fact the right answer is who cares.Sorry, I just wanted to say that this cracked me up. :rofl:

[H-F Blade]

Akuma's voice samples were taken from other characters.

Hadouken: Sagat's throw
Air Hadouken: Ryu's throw
Shoryuken: Dictator's throw
Hurricane Kick: Gief's spinning lariat
Throw: ? (I know I've heard it from another character I just don't remember which one)
Death cry: Ryu/Dhalsim

I always wondered why Ryu and Dhalsim had the same death cries. In the snes version of SSF2 Dhalsim had his own.

[felineki]

His throw voice sample is from Honda's "bear hug" grab.

[ShinVega]

Ken's air Tatsumaki Kick (fwd or rh only) will hit three times. Speaking of which I'm curious where the translation of T.Akiba's trajectory chart can be found.
Learning all the variations of those kicks makes ken's air game deadly.

SSII with a cheat that allows supers to be used in the air, if done enough times (ex. shoryuken) you'll phase back to ground level after a certain height (I remember it's extremely high).

AE ST Ken and Ryu shoryukening at the right distance will cause their fists to become one and sometimes results in a crossup landing (I had the latter happen once).

[H-F Blade]

Everyone looks the same when they're engulfed in flames except for Gief and T. Hawk. When a normal sized character gets hit by a flame while standing up, it looks like Dictator's standing reel animation.

[NKI]

Ken's air Tatsumaki Kick (fwd or rh only) will hit three times. Speaking of which I'm curious where the translation of T.Akiba's trajectory chart can be found.I'll do it one of these days, when I get time...

AE ST Ken and Ryu shoryukening at the right distance will cause their fists to become one and sometimes results in a crossup landing (I had the latter happen once).I don't understand what you're trying to say here...:confused:

[dialupsucky]

So anyone ever figure out the seekrit to doing ryus tiger knee hurricane kick backwards with 100% consitency. And as to why it doesnt work the same with ken and akuma who always work... I still never got that, ryu can tiger knee foward normaly like everyone else, but randomly it wont work when you try to do it backwords with him shrug...

[ShinVega]

I don't understand what you're trying to say here...:confused:[/QUOTE]

Basically, I'm sure it's happened to others, when two Fierce Shoryukens are done at the right distance apart at the EXACT same time they will do what I said.
I'll post a pick @ image bucket when I get time and someone else to play (like I said it's rare, and the only reason it happened b/c I had played the same person over and over the entire night).

:wgrin:

[Return of Shiki]

Yeah, I made this trivia game like 3 yrs ago, and I'm certain some of them are wrong. If anyone wants to make me some real questions, I would be more than happy to put them in. I need 20 to make it complete. :lovin:

- Alex

Yeah, the question about SF2 American Debut was totally wrong.
It debuted in American Arcades in March 1991.


Some trivia question suggestions
Some of these are very obscure...

1) What was the first SF game to be made on Capcom's CPS-3 arcade system?
SF EX
SF 3: New Generation
SF Alpha

2) Which of these characters in Alpha 1 did NOT originally come from Final Fight?
Birdie
Rolento
Guy

3) Which these has NOT been the name of one of Guile's supers?
Opening Gambit
Crossfire Assault
Sonic Slicer

4) Which of these characters was the youngest Street Fighter in the series?
Elena (Debut: Street Fighter 3)
Juli (Debut: SF Alpha 3)
Sakura (Debut: SF Alpha 2)

5) What is the name of Dhalsim's wife?
Dali
Sali
Tali

6) Zangief took his Spinning Lariat move from what rival fighter?
Victor Von Gerdenheim
Raiden
Mike Haggar

7) What is Charlie/Nash's favorite drink?
Scotch
Gin n' Juice
Rum

8) What movie star did Chun-Li idolize as a little girl?
Bruce Lee
Jackie Chan
Chuck Norris

9) Who could NOT have a "Stored Charge" Super in Super Turbo?
Chun-Li
E. Honda
Guile

10) What stage in SF Alpha 2 was inspired by the SF 2 Animated Movie?
Australia
Venezuela
Brazil

11) What move does Dudley have in SF 3:2nd Impact but NOT New Generation or 3rd Strike?
Rolling Thunder
Thunderbolt
Machine Gun Blow

12) Who did Ryu face in Japan in Street Fighter 1?
Retsu and Ken
Ken and Dan
Geki and Retsu

13) Who are the only 4 SF characters ever to participate in a GameFAQs Character Contest?
Ryu, Chun-Li, Sakura, Ken
Ryu, Guile, Chun-Li, Sakura
Ryu, Chun-Li, Ken, M. Bison

14) Some of the planners and producers of Street Fighter 1 left Capcom to make what series for SNK?
Art of Fighting
Fatal Fury
Samurai Shodown

15) Custom Combos were first introduced in which game?
SF Alpha
SF Alpha 2
Super Turbo

16) Who was the only character out of the 8 original SFers to not make an appearance in the EX series?
Blanka
E. Honda
Zangief

17) Who is the real final boss of Street Fighter 3: 2nd Impact?
Shin Akuma
Gill
Urien

18) What country do Juli and Juni hail from?
France
Germany
Russia

19) What does the "T" in T. Hawk stand for?
Thunder
Terrible
Tiny

20) Who is the tallest character in the SF2 series?
Sagat
T. Hawk
Zangief

21) What is the only official Street Fighter tournament, story-wise, that Akuma has entered?
The 2nd SF Tournament
The 3rd SF Tournament
None of them

22) Sakura is good friends with what 2 characters from the Rival Schools series?
Hinata Wakaba and Natsu Ayuhara
Ran Hibiki and Akira Kazama
Momo Karuizawa and Yurika Kirishima

23) Which of these SF Characters does NOT make an appearance in the run-n'-gun shooter Cannon Spike?
Charlie (Nash)
Guile
Vega (Balrog)

24) What was the first SF game in which Blanka recieved his Vertical Rolling Attack?
SF 2 Champion Edition
SF 2 Turbo
Super SF2 Turbo

25) Who does Ingrid see in the year 201X in her ending in SF Alpha 3 MAX?
Rose
Ryu
Sakura

[Return of Shiki]

Oh yeah, and ANSWERS (highlight):


1 B
2 A
3 C
4 C
5 B
6 C
7 A
8 A
9 C
10 A
11 B
12 C
13 C
14 A
15 B
16 B
17 A
18 B
19 A
20 B
21 C
22 A
23 B
24 B
25 B

[felineki]

So, I was screwing around with ArtMoney on Super Turbo again the other day, and figured out exactly how the game handles the trajectories of mid-air hurricane kicks. I know this is something that has been brought up as an item of interest in the past.

The character's vertical velocity is not directly affected. Rather, their gravity value is temporarily adjusted. Every character has their own jump gravity value (as I'm sure you've noticed, Dhalsim falls much more slowly from a jump than Claw). This normally stays constant throughout a jump. However, when a shoto performs a mid-air hurricane kick, their gravity value is temporarily decreased. This gives them the effect of falling more slowly if it is performed on the way down, or allowing them to gain more height if done on the way up.

The decreased gravity value lasts as long as the character's leg is out, able to hit. As soon as they pull their leg back in, the gravity value returns to normal.

In addition, they are given a slight boost in horizontal velocity as the kick starts (a forward boost if jumping forward or straight up, a backward boost if jumping back). This additional velocity lasts until they actually touch the ground.

[felineki]

Click (http://home.mchsi.com/~mbiddinger/SSF2Xaltlogo.gif)

Something I found in the CPS2 SSF2X's graphics ROMs. Was Capcom considering calling it Super Street Fighter II Z at some point? :confused:

[Maj]

Uh, did you guys know that Sagat's MP and HP Tiger Uppercuts don't knock down in CE? Who the hell thought that would be a good idea?

[Buttermaker]

They knock down in the Japanese version. They don't in the US and World versions.

[felineki]

Screwing around with Artmoney on SSF2X again... I managed to get ST Blanka to do his old close Fierce from WW... the one where he flips in place and hits you twice. :confused: Seems like the code for some old, unused moves is still in the game data, even though it doesn't normally get used.

[felineki]

Here's one that defines "random and useless"... the second hit of Fei Long's "chicken wing" kick makes a medium hit spark when it connects... ONLY the second hit, the other two make hard hitsparks (the standard for specials). It makes the correct sound however (hard kick). This is true of all 3 versions.

[Raisin]

[description of the game's handling of trajectories of mid-air hurricane kicks]
That's great information that I'm sure a ton of people don't know about. I know you posted this a few months ago, so sorry for asking so late, but would you mind if I added that stuff to the Ryu and Ken sections of the ST wiki? I'll give you full credit, of course.

[Raisin]

If at least 2 of the first 3 rounds are ties (draw games or double KO's), the game will always go to the final round. This can have some pretty weird implications.

Here's what happened one time to us. The first round was a draw game and the second was a double K.O. I won the 3rd round and assumed I had won the match by a score of 1-0, only to be surprised by the fact that the game went to the final round anyway with the score set to 1-1.

I figured I'd simply lost track of the score, but in fact, in that situation it actually doesn't matter(!) who wins the 3rd round.

Probably old news to you guys, but at the time I thought it was truly bizarre and still find it really weird today. :looney:

[felineki]

That's great information that I'm sure a ton of people don't know about. I know you posted this a few months ago, so sorry for asking so late, but would you mind if I added that stuff to the Ryu and Ken sections of the ST wiki? I'll give you full credit, of course.Sure, no problem.

[felineki]

New tidbit today.

You all remember Guile's magic throw glitch in WW. One of the things that made it so deadly was the fact that he was completely invincible during the throwing animation. This makes sense, because under normal circumstances, if he is throwing, then the opponent should be being thrown, and thus couldn't possibly try to attack him. Thus he was given no vulnerability box.

By screwing around with cheats and hacking tools like I love to do, it is possible to recreate the "magic throw" effect with pretty much any throw you want in ST. It functions mostly as expected... except for one thing. Characters performing a multi-hit grab (Ken knee bash, Yoga Noogie, etc.) actually DO have vulnerability boxes. If you make a character do a "magic grab", the opponent can walk right up and smack them out of it. Strange.

[[Ryu_Chile]]

New tidbit today.

You all remember Guile's magic throw glitch in WW. One of the things that made it so deadly was the fact that he was completely invincible during the throwing animation. This makes sense, because under normal circumstances, if he is throwing, then the opponent should be being thrown, and thus couldn't possibly try to attack him. Thus he was given no vulnerability box.

By screwing around with cheats and hacking tools like I love to do, it is possible to recreate the "magic throw" effect with pretty much any throw you want in ST. It functions mostly as expected... except for one thing. Characters performing a multi-hit grab (Ken knee bash, Yoga Noogie, etc.) actually DO have vulnerability boxes. If you make a character do a "magic grab", the opponent can walk right up and smack them out of it. Strange.


those cheats are for what emu? can you post'em?
and... Anything about visible hitboxes? that would be great :P

[Desk]

can anyone (im looking at you felineki, lol) answer this question? Are there any situations where a character is considered to be below the ground? even for a split second? Something like morrigans drill super from CvS2, where if you hit her late with certain moves she glitches out because she's considered below the floor.

it's a long shot I know, lol.

[felineki]

[Ryu_Chile], they're for ArtMoney, a program which can be used with about any emulator (or any application, for that matter). It lets you see, replace, and freeze any variable values (like, for example, a character's position, current animation frame, health, etc.). I actually did upload my ST ArtMoney table (http://randomselect.i-xcell.com/forum/index.php?topic=266.msg22578#msg22578) recently, so if anyone wants to play around with it, go ahead. You'll need ArtMoney, Kawaks, and the ST ROM (if you want to play it safe, use the "ssf2xj" ROM, since that's what I used, but it will probably work for other versions of ST).

(Long, boring instructions ahead. If you're not interested in using ArtMoney with ST, skip this stuff)

It probably won't work right out of the box due to the way computers store memory, so you'll have to find the correct offsets. First, for best results, click the "Options" button, go to the "Additional" tab, and set both "Refresh time (ms)" and "Freeze time (ms)" to 10, then click OK. To find the correct offsets, start up both Kawaks and ArtMoney, load ST in Kawaks, load the table you downloaded in ArtMoney, and select Kawaks in ArtMoney's drop-down "Select Process" menu. Next, go to Kawaks, and go to the Sound Test (press F11, scroll down to "Sound & Voice", then press light punch).

Leave the Sound Code at 0000. Then, go back to ArtMoney, and press the "Search" button. Choose "Exact value" in the "Search" column, "Integer (standard)" in the "Type" column, then type "0" in the "Value" box. Then hit "OK". It will take a while to search, just wait until it says it's done, then click "OK".

Next, go back to Kawaks, and press Right on the stick to change the Sound Code to 0001. Go back to ArtMoney, and click the "Filter" button. Use the same settings as you did for your initial search, but type "1" in the value column, and click "OK". Repeat this step a few times, increasing the Sound Code by 1 each time, until you're left with about 5-10 values in the left column of the main window.

Click the big green arrow button next to that column to send all of those values to the table on the right. Scroll down to the bottom of the table, and you should see several values labled "Value (#)". These are the values you just sent to the table. One by one, test these new values by checking the "F" (Freeze) column for one of the values, going back to Kawaks, and trying to change the Sound Code with left and right on the stick. If you can still change it, then you haven't frozen the correct value. Go back to ArtMoney and try the next one.

When the correct value has been frozen, the Sound Code display should get stuck on the number it was on. It might blink to a different number when you move the stick, but it will snap right bak to the number it was at. Now you have your correct value. On the left column, click the value that matches the "Address" number of the value you have frozen in the main window, so that it becomes highlighted. In the main window, scroll back up to the top and click the value labeled "Sound Test No. Disp" to highlight it as well. With both of these highlighted, right-click on the "Sound Test No. Disp", then click "More > Auto apply the offset > Auto apply the offset to all".

You should now have your proper offsets. Go ahead and click "save" to save the table, because these offsets will now work most of the time on your computer. When they don't, just repeat the above steps to get correct offsets again.

Whew, that took long enough. :razzy: Oh, no news on visible hitboxes in ST, sorry. Seems that's a privilege only the Yoga Book Hyper guys will get. :sad:

Desk, as far as I know, the characters never go "under the ground" in ST (under normal circumstances... I can force them to go below the ground by changing/freezing their Y coordinates, that's how I tested the "attack that hits low vulnerability box only = attack that can only be blocked low" theory), but it's something I'll keep my eye on.

Oh, and regarding my last post, seeing as characters performing grabs apparently have vulnerability boxes, I thought that it might be possible to try and make a setup where a character gets hit out of a grab by a fireball, but it doesn't work, seems they become invincible if they actually grab the opponent. :sweat:

[Master Bigode]

Question:

What's special about ArtMoney Pro ?
Any advantages ?

[Desk]

sorry, I just have to bump this thread. I'd forgotten about it but was my favourite thing on this board for ages.

While I'm here I might as well ask... I can vividly remember a few situations where I've had no energy (chip damage would have killed me) and I've eaten 1 hit of a special move and haven't died. Am I making this up? or is it only possible against the cpu? Ken's fierce dp comes to mind but again I'm not 100%.

[Snatcher]

Can anyone find out exactly how many button presses the AI use during a hold-grab (Noogie, etc.) for more hits? Completely useless, but it'd be interesting to know.

[RagingStormX]

You can win but lose :). I had some charater, I think Ryu iirc and did my super and they hit me, the KO came up with the super backround but he won.

[Desk]

Can anyone find out exactly how many button presses the AI use during a hold-grab (Noogie, etc.) for more hits? Completely useless, but it'd be interesting to know.

I don't think that's how it works. I'm pretty sure you could program the most amount of inputs possible and it wouldn't come close to what the AI can do. It's the same as it's ability to do charge moves without charging and walk back without proximity blocking. It plays with a whole different set of rules.

[Raisin]

- Guile's cr.MP hits DeeJay low.

- The small character portraits in the user interface (underneath the health bars) show the characters in their normal, old color schemes. The exception is Boxer, whose portrait still shows his Hyper Fighting yellow jersey.

[brian]

- Guile's cr.MP hits DeeJay low.


wtf are you serious? thats gold.

[Kajoq]

Figured out some interesting stuff about stage selection today. Some might already know this, but its still kind of cool.

Basically the game always makes you play on the stage you're supposed to be playing on in Arcade. So you can advance all the way through if you just have one person pick the corresponding character and lose. However, once you get to where you just have Dictator left in Arcade mode, it switches to always being on the Winner's stage. So, the only way to play on Dictators stage in VS mode is to have cycled all the way through, then have someone change to Dictator and win. Also if you win with Akuma, it gives Ryu's stage.

[Warrior's Dreams]

- Guile's cr.MP hits DeeJay low.

- The small character portraits in the user interface (underneath the health bars) show the characters in their normal, old color schemes. The exception is Boxer, whose portrait still shows his Hyper Fighting yellow jersey.

wtf are you serious? thats gold.

Also, Cammy's c.MP hits Dhalsim low. If he blocks high he gets hit

[Ryu1999]

- Guile's cr.MP hits DeeJay low.

- The small character portraits in the user interface (underneath the health bars) show the characters in their normal, old color schemes. The exception is Boxer, whose portrait still shows his Hyper Fighting yellow jersey.

Technically his CE color, now that they gave him a new HF/fierce color for ST :)

[mad possum]

I just wanted to say that this is the best thread in all of SRK! I love this stuff, I am such an ST nerd :wonder:.

[yates]

I've not read the entire thread, and as such I may be offering a redundancy. But...

If Ryu knocks a cornered Dictator down with a LK Hurricane, and immediately does another LK Hurricane, it will cross up. You get there just in time to throw out a meaty, but if you have meter you can just super that ass instead of dealing with the throw possibility. You can meaty a DP, and you can also jump back over him to cross him up again.

Shenanigans.

[Maj]

I wrote a batch of new articles, with plenty of randomness inside. Check this thread (http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=156581) for details.

If you have two credits in arcade ST and you press the 2P Start button, it'll bring both players into the game.

While I'm here I might as well ask... I can vividly remember a few situations where I've had no energy (chip damage would have killed me) and I've eaten 1 hit of a special move and haven't died. Am I making this up? or is it only possible against the cpu? Ken's fierce dp comes to mind but again I'm not 100%.
Well, the first hit of Ken's DP does very little damage. I don't know if it's possible to reduce that to zero, but when you get low on life and damage reduction kicks in, you don't need much to survive. Dhalsim is really useful for testing out stuff like this, cuz you can DP his limbs to avoid the rest of the hits.

[Raisin]

Technically his CE color, now that they gave him a new HF/fierce color for ST :)
Oh, I was just looking again at his colors, and I thought it strange that I couldn't remember his orange setup (HP/fierce button) at all. Explains a lot!

If you have two credits in arcade ST and you press the 2P Start button, it'll bring both players into the game.
That's only if the game configuration's Start Mode is set to the default Off, right? Still, I could never figure out why they designed in that way.

[Kajoq]

You're right about the Start Mode raisin. I was screwing with the config on my board one day and stumbled upon that

[yates]

If you tech a throw that would have killed you without the tech's reduction, but would have left you alive WITH the tech's reduction, you don't get the tech. When you factor in the random damage, it can get pretty whacky.

No one should use "tech" four times in one sentence.

[Desk]

technically you do tech the throw, you can see the animation change, you just die anyway.

[ParryPerson.]

Bisons st.hk whiffs on a crouching Blanka, but his st.mk does not.

Bisons st.mk whiffs on a sliding Deejay, but st.hk does not.

[felineki]

Regarding the "Throw For The Win" phenomenon, I came up with a theory as to why that happens recently. In SF2, most throws don't actually damage the opponent until they hit the ground or a wall. The exception is when they don't have enough health to survive the throw. In that case, they take the damage and get KO'ed as soon as they leave the thrower's grasp. When throw teching was later added to ST, the programmers probably forgot to account for this preexisting "throw KO" effect.

[Raisin]

Regarding the "Throw For The Win" phenomenon, I came up with a theory as to why that happens recently...
Ahh yeah, I see what you're saying... So way back since SF2WW, they decided to do the KO slowdown at the start of the throw, and when ST came out and they implemented throw techs, they didn't want to change tradition? Felineki, that's the coolest (yet most pointless) sleuthing ever. :tup: :lol:

Speaking of throw oddities, when the computer performs them, doesn't it make the accompanying sound effect at a slightly different time than when a human does the same throw? Like against computer Dhalsim, he does the "Hupp!" throw sound at a slightly different time when chucking you by your noggin.

[Maj]

That sounds absurd but at the same time it's by far the best explanation anyone has put together. Nice work.

[Raisin]

Zangief fights bare-chested, of course. However, in his in-game portrait, he's shown wearing a wrestling uniform -- you can see the straps over his shoulders.

How's that for useless trivia? :bgrin:

(Noticed by my friend Little Mac, who rarely posts here.)