Death In Comics: Should We Even Care Anymore?

[ReggieHadoken]

Killing off a major/supporting character in a comic was huge back in the day. I mean it was hard to believe that such an awesome hero/villian, or a character that helped shapped a main character was gone.

These days, death in comic books is handed out like candy but the Grim Reaper never does his job correctly because more often than not, the character that died ends up coming back some how. I don't know when it startedb, but for me, the whole shock value of killing someone in a comic has been flushed down the crapper. It really is annoying.

That said, I'm actually relieved that some characters have been resurrected in comics:

Magneto: Come on, look at his name. MAGNETO. He's too freaking awesome to just leave dead.

Aunt May: As touching as Amazing Spidey #400 was and as much as it ticked off some of the staff at Marvel to see her back, I'm glad she returned. JMS has made me care more about Aunt May than any other Spidey writer in recent years. And she knows Peter is Spider-Man. That alone made ASM #38, vol. 2, worth it.

There are other characters but that's all I state for now. Just want to know what you guys think of the whole death/resureccetion in comics.

[YellowS4]

It was funny when they turned Cap America into a fucken star in the sky.

I don't comics as much as I used to, so I don't care much about canon, guys dying left and right and whatnot.

[9999]

The only time death followed by resurrection was actually good was in the Infinity Gauntlet.

[maxx]

wtf are we just ripping off a wizard magazine article? or was it newarama.

[Hokuto no Jeffro]

Anyone who dies can be ressurected just like that. So in comics, death isn't really that uhhhh.... deadly? Well at least Bucky errrr... I mean Jason Todd no..... Uncle Ben! Yep, he's still dead, I think...

[ReggieHadoken]

Anyone who dies can be ressurected just like that. So in comics, death isn't really that uhhhh.... deadly? Well at least Bucky errrr... I mean Jason Todd no..... Uncle Ben! Yep, he's still dead, I think...

What?! They brought back Bucky?! Dang it!

Yes, Uncle Ben is still dead. However, an alternate reality Uncle Been is wanering around in Peter's world in Friendly Neighborhood Spidey.

As for the Wizard article, sorry about that, maxx. Haven't read the book in over 10 years.

[9999]

heh, I didnt even know they still made Wizard...

[specs]

Has X-Man (Nate Grey) been resurrected yet?

[ATM SPIDERTAO]

i want jean grey to come back
she is the greatest ever!!!!!!!!

[Don Knotts]

Well, in DC comics, the entire canon gets re-written during the Crisis crossovers, so deaths, births, orgins stories, everything turns to shit.

Jason Todd came back to life because Superboy Prime punched a wall. Go figure.

As for Marvel comics, Jean Grey has stayed dead for a while. Infact, deaths have been a little more perminant lately, IMHO. Queseda has made Marvel a less gimmicky company over all, putting creative stories and artistic integrity first. But no one figures it will last. Half the fn is guessign not if, but when and how characters will come back to life.

Thing is, a lot of writers for comics just don't agree with what was done before them. They read the story where Cololussus dies and think "That story sucks. I would un-write that if I could" , and so they do. I really don't see anything wrong with that, come to think of it.

If I could un-write the last season of the X-Files, I would.

[TheDarkPhoenix]

Marvels death are a bit more permanent than dc's but thats not saying much. And if there not permanent they're dead a long long time.

Its all about the writers tho. If they didn't like something they come in a change it. Or if they have a "cool" ideal for a character even if that character is dead....They do what they have to do to bring em back.

I don't like deaths in comics because there return always changes a character you've grown to love. Not only that, If its a character i like i want to see them all the time. Not on the 2-3 year hiatus.

[Don Knotts]

Yeah, I always prefer a character going into "exile" or just quitting for a while to the plublicity stunt "death".

Or faking their deaths Jack Buer style. Nothing wrong with that. But real deaths, that's weak.

Superman, Green Arrow, Green Lanturn, Robin 2, SuperGirl, all dead and back. Would have been much more realistic, and more interesting, if they had all quit, and then made returns.

Wonder if Superboy and Robin 4 will stay dead?

[P. Gorath]

I think deaths can be a good thing when in the confines of a story from a particular creator.

I though the deaths of jean grey and magneto during morrison's run were very cool and emotional, and i just chose to ignore all the retconning that came after. Valiant Comics had a lot of good deaths. DC has had some good recent ones too - the blue beetle definitely went out like a champ. I also liked all of the GL deaths during emerald twilight (especially kilowog and sinestro) and I just ignored those retcons too

[Sano]

Damned if they do, damned if they don't. The people who want certain characters ressurected go and buy the comics they come back to life in. The people who think ressurections are STUPID like me go and buy the same comics to see how stupid it's going to be. In short, dumb ass comic book ressurections make money, so they will keep happening regardless. Soap Operas are like that too, when they want a boost in ratings they just have to bring a dead character back to life.

And I'm just gonna let out a big laugh if you think Jean Grey and Hawkeye will stay dead forever.

Uncle Ben is running around in 616, but at least to Peter David's credit it's an Uncle Ben from another reality.

Death means NOTHING in both Marvel and DC comics, I'm not even sure why they bother to kill people if they can't stick to their guns on anything. Even people they do kill for real like Gwen Stacy, not only does she has a clone of herself running around, but she now has a daughter of hers and the Green Goblin's who was a mutie with accelerated growth who looks exactly like Gwen Stacy... DEATH MEANS NOTHING IN MARVEL AND DC!!!!

[Flip Ninja]

I think another big problem is that with a revolving door on authors, a lot of times some guy will take over a title and decide to kill off a certain character, only to have the next writer decide "hey I really liked that character, I'll bring them back".

Not that it bugs me TOO much. I'm waiting for Banshee to come back personally.

[spudlyff8fan]

Yeah, really. Character deaths would be horrible...if they actually mattered. I remember when I was reading Avengers and Iron Man died and it surprised me. Few months later he comes back as a teenager or some damn thing. Magneto dies, come back young, dies and then comes back again.

[goodm0urning]

They could be good. COULD be good. But the motivation to kill a long-running comic book character is invariably to boost flagging sales, and that fact shows in the end result. The most egregrious example is Superman getting killed by a brainless strongman that literally crawled out of the ground one day. Come the fuck on... Luthor fails, Darkseid fails, Mongul fails, then this thing--with no past and no motivation whatsoever--succeeds? Of course, calling it a success is dubious since Superman hardly stayed dead for very long... but you get the idea.

Fuck that shit. Get some new ideas. One of DC Comics' biggest problems is inbreeding. They simply don't hire new, fresh writers anymore. And you know what happens when a gene pool starts contaminating itself.

[ReggieHadoken]

I actually read The Death of Superman about 2 years after it first hit the world, via TPB. I thought it was a good story but since I didn't read it until a few years later, I already knew he'd be back. Of coruse, I'm sure those who read the story when it first hit knew he'd come back as well.

As for Jean Grey, it's only a matter of time until she comes back. I mean, after Hawkeye's death in Avengers, I was a bit irked to find out he'd be coming back in another mag. sano is correct: Death means nothing in DC and Marvel comics.

I remember reading in Essential Spider-Man vol. 6 that Gerry Conway had killed off Doc Ock, which I actually didn't like. I think he was being way too ballsy on his Amazing Spidey run. Len Wein brough him back in his run in Essential Spidey vol. 7. Marvel decided to kill of Doc Ock again in the mid '90s in a more shocking tale called Web of Death. Of course he was ressurrected, which I like and kinda don't like. I mean Ock is one of my fav Spidey villains but what's the freaking point in killing someone if they don't stay dead? Oh yeah: SALES!

As far as Aunt May's resurrection, was that actress thing the best they could come up with? I mean, come on! Speaking of deaths in the Spidey world, I'm amazed Kraven has stayed dead. That in itself is shocking. Bringing Norman Osborn back wasn't so bad, really. Considering all they've done with him since then, it's one of the best ressurrections in comics IMO.

[Ouroborus]

i'm glad they brought psylocke back

[GeoG2]

Only character I was mad they killed was Colossus.

Of course, that didn't last.

At some point, Marvel is going to get tired of making people think every hero has a clone pretending to be him and that the real one shows up when the clone dies. Or that when a hero dies, he merely goes into an alt. universe... and can be brought back easily.

[Rhio2k]

Jason Todd came back to life because Superboy Prime punched a wall. Go figure.


:rofl: Damn, dude, you just made me fall out of my chair laughing! Is that really how it happened?

[Gen-An]

:rofl: Damn, dude, you just made me fall out of my chair laughing! Is that really how it happened?

Basically. See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superboy-Prime

[Don Knotts]

Nice Shin-Chan Av. That show is in my new top five.

And yeah, it's more complicated than that, but more or less, Superboy prime was punching a wall, and then Jason Todd suddenly came back to life, brain damaged and all fucked up, still in his coffin.

He then broke out of his coffin, dug his way to the surface, and wandered around for a few hours. He eventually got picked up by Ras Al Ghuls' hot daughter, who dumped him in a lazarus pit, which brought him back to full brain functioning.

Realism in Crisis continuty DC comics = Pooped on.

Judd Winnick from Real World 3 wrote the story.

[maxx]

:rofl: Damn, dude, you just made me fall out of my chair laughing! Is that really how it happened?

superboy prime is sooo rediculously broken. i was gonna run through battle poll with him but i missed the deadline.

[Sheng-Long]

Well Jean Grey is the Phoenix after all, so if anyone is gonna die and return it will be her. Magneto's recent death (with Jean Grey) was a sort of statement from Grant Morrison anyway on the innevitablity of these two characters dying and returning in a cyclical nature.

Bucky technically didn't die, its basically a retcon and a very good one at that, now he is the Winter Soldier who worked for the Russians while Captain America thought all this time that he is dead.

I don't mind the return of Colossus, his death was ridiculously stupid anyway. Besides, the current Astonishing X-men run is awesome. Psylocke I dunno yet why she came back, but this is Chris Claremont after all, so don't expect any explanation until 10-20 years later.

[defcon]

the reason deaths are impermanent in marvel and dc revolves around the fact that the dc and marvel own copyrights to their characters and subsequently retain creative rights to said characters. different writers will have their stints and essentially be limited to stories that will sell issues... everything else is fair game. the fact that a lot of those comics are ongoing, neverending sagas (xmen, superman, spiderman batman, etc), a lot's already been done and new writers will inevitably want to leave their "creative mark" on the character by doing some zany shit they think no one has ever done before. contrast that to say, the sandman (vertigo). now im not sure if neil gaiman or vertigo/dc has the rights to the sandman characters, but because that series was finite (had a begining and end), and the characters that died will, bar some kind of anti-creative disaster, stay dead. in the course of neverending franchise sagas, death is impermanent, but in structured stories that have actual endings, death is as good as... well, death.

[Unreallystic]

whoa whoa whoa - time out - Magneto came back to life after wolverine stabbed him and killed him? I've lost all faith now - MArvel was saying 'oh these peoepl are going to stay dead'...bullshit...
-:bluu:

[maxx]

whoa whoa whoa - time out - Magneto came back to life after wolverine stabbed him and killed him? I've lost all faith now - MArvel was saying 'oh these peoepl are going to stay dead'...bullshit...
-:bluu:

u mean joe quesada said, wasnt he the one who said things are gonna pretty much stay final until his tenior is over?

[shinobi00]

I know this is off topic, but i heard the wolverine comic has gotten alot better recently, this true? heard he killed finally sabretooth, and marvel is finally revealing alot more about his history. Which particular issue should i start with?

[Sano]

They did reveal how Psylocke came back to life. It was her brother Jamie who did it who has always had the power to alter reality. He did it to prepare her for a big evil event that only she could prevent, and she did.

Wolverine has not killed Sabretooth. Where did you hear that one? Sabretooth is with the X-Men now. They are finally going to reveal what exactly Sabretooth and Wolverine's connection is soon.

Marvel is revealing more about Wolverine's history in Wolverine Origins. After the House of M event, Wolverine has his entire memory available to him. Only it's coming to him in bits and pieces. It's like when you see someone from first grade who you haven't thought of in years, then all of these memories flood back to you at once, you have the memories but don't always recall them, it's kind of like that times 100 since Wolvie's been around for 100s of years.

You should start with the Wolverine Origins issue that Captain America and Wolvie fight because the issues that came before it are lame, it only got good after his big Captain America fight, the last 2 issues.

His run in his own book is really good too, but it's wrapped up in Civil War, and if you don't want to mess with Civil War (don't know why you wouldn't, best Marvel Crossover in years) you can just pick up Wolverine Origins for now. Also there were some stories in his own book that dealt with his past just before Civil War, and what happened in those comics has spun off to Wolverine Origins.

[KungfuJoe]

I though the deaths of jean grey and magneto during morrison's run were very cool and emotional, and i just chose to ignore all the retconning that came after. Valiant Comics had a lot of good deaths.

The big thing about the Morrison run is that almost everything that he did was undone except for Jean Grey(so far)

Death in comics has become more or less a joke. DC kills them off then retcons(or in superboy primes case punches) them back(please no zero hour 2) Marvel so far has live up to there uh oh looks like joey Q lied.

KFJ

[Zephyranthes]

contrast that to say, the sandman (vertigo). now im not sure if neil gaiman or vertigo/dc has the rights to the sandman characters, but because that series was finite (had a begining and end), and the characters that died will, bar some kind of anti-creative disaster, stay dead. in the course of neverending franchise sagas, death is impermanent, but in structured stories that have actual endings, death is as good as... well, death.

I agree with your points. Major characters' deaths and resurrections are just part of corporate-owned comics. It's just something you got to accept. The important thing is if the story where a character dies or comes back is good. If it's good, it's good no matter if Magneto got decapitated. If it's bad, it's bad, no matter if we all want to see more hot Psylocke action. Personally speaking, I won't ever complain about deaths and resurrections. I will only complain about shitty stories.

DC still owns the Sandman. He's their character because he's based on/inspired by the Golden Age Sandman. DC does know that they owe all the success to Gaiman, though, so they have kind of an unwritten rule where they won't use his characters and ideas without his permission.

Anyone want to read a Marvel comic where characters die and stay dead? Read Peter Milligan and Michael Allred's X-Force/X-Statix. Granted, they were able to kill people in their comics because they created most of them... But it's the one Marvel comic I can think of in which people died, and it actually mattered. Nevermind the fact that an average character's lifespan was 6 issues!

[matrix9280]

Captain Marvel and Thunderbird I are still dead.

[Wellman]

Death should really be feared by a comic fan, if their favorite isn't really all that popular or old.

If no creators actually wants or gives a shit, they won't bother to resurrect them. But classic characters with big followings will always be back, Hawkeye, or if a big wig wants to mess around with them (Bucky). Which is probably the only way X-Man (Nate Grey) will be brought back unless he made a villian.

[Zephyranthes]

True, I would probably be at least a little pissed if DC were to kill the Question over the course of 52.