MVC2: Character Needs

[Satomiblood]

I've been thinking about certain characters like Jill, Bison, Captain America, and Omega Red and what it would've taken for them to be more playable. This thread pertains more to lower-mid tiers and the additions you would've liked to have seen made in order for them to compete on a higher level. Discuss.

[HaiDuongRiceMan]

Less Lag on Hayato's normals. His MP has more lag than his S.HP, wtf.

[b1gazn]

If everybody had an air dash and fly, the game would be a lot more balanced.

Cammy is so close to being top tier, but her special isnt reliable enough.

[UnknownEnemyZero]

Mainly if everyone had more manuverability. Airdashes are can be so useful, even the forward only airdashes help out like Tron's.

For me, I think Megaman needs better supers. All of them have the worst startup. His qcf+pp gets beat out by anything. I'm pretty sure some of the rush/bird supers could be useful if it didn't take so long to start.

[Ouroborus]

mega man needs:

-time stopper from mm2 as an unblockable super
-rain flush from mm4 as a hailstorm super
-astro crush from mm8 as a super
-flash bombs from mm8
-crash bombs from mm2
-either rush jet from mm3 or mm6
-more projectiles (dive/magnet/search missiles, metal/shadow blade, quick boomerangs, etc)

[Satomiblood]

mega man needs:

-time stopper from mm2 as an unblockable super
-rain flush from mm4 as a hailstorm super
-astro crush from mm8 as a super
-flash bombs from mm8
-crash bombs from mm2
-either rush jet from mm3 or mm6
-more projectiles (dive/magnet/search missiles, metal/shadow blade, quick boomerangs, etc)

Rain Flush was the shit in MM4 and would've made a great super. I think a better form of Leaf Shield would've been nice...like if the leaves floated down from the top of the screen. Imagine the lockdown potential.

[Radiant93]

^^ and Sub-T's for life. megaman needs em'

[evilmuffinmanX]

dont forget the pause glitch for MM1! :wgrin:

quitting pausing the game nigga i cant block! :annoy:

[IFCYipeS]

omegared and morrigan are godlike...just nobody got balls to fuck wit em,lol

[TrunksSS3]

how about giveing Cable a Airdash ^_^ or a double jump

[Ouroborus]

man, it would be tight if mega man can use the time stopper against cables ahvb

[KING]

we need a good remixed MvC2 via MUGEN or something...lol.

[MegamanDS]

my jill wins tournaments and almost won evo

[dialupsucky]

All of hayatos attacks with his sword should do chip damage. And plasma combos shouldnt be push blockable. Also a different command for his command throw. Also how about he takes no chipp damage from fireballs like iceman ethier. Dash hp should give you more of a advantage. Or at least put you at even. also make it so he can attack after again after jumping down hk. So he can have some kinda of mix up, like jump down hk, bounce off hp over head, or land into low. Of course this is assmumeing as well he bouncing off fast so it acctauly is hard to see if the overhead or low is coming.... Also make f+hp a overhead as well, but still being able to combo in and link out of it still. That would be good.

Hrmm thats about it, id say give him a laser beam to... But at least with this he wont be worse then roll anymore hopefully.

[Khiempossible]

I guess I'll answer here.

The best way to figure out new stuff is to figure out WHY stuff works in the first place. Modern games, especially Marvel aren't really based around SF skill, more based around gimmicks. So if you want to know why the game works, start by looking at the most successful gimmick.

What do Storm, Magneto, Iron Man, Doom have in common. All have 8 way airdash. This makes them harder to hit and harder to block. OK, well, now we have something. 8 way dash is good. So let's look for another character who has 8 way dash. Dhalsim. OK. So now we at least have a starting point for something new. We can take little pieces of each of those characters and add it to Dhalsim. From Storm we can take the "reverse rushdown" of SJ fierce, dash d/b fierce to build meters. Sub out rh for fierce and it's actually slightly better. (To tell the truth, Dhalsim's use of that predates Storm's. After I saw how well it was working with Sim, I started doing it with Storm and other people followed suit). We can take Iron Man's slow projectiles in the air and his air dive tricks and adapt those to Dhalsim also. TK jab yoga fires take FOREVER to go away and take up square dashing space. Also drills can be subbed in for knee dives, except they're slightly better! You can chain off of those, whereas Iron Man got that taken away from him. Also we can take Magneto's square dashing except change the angles. Dhalsim's high air jab goes almost straight down and delays his movement a bit. Combine that with Storm/Mag/Cyclops assists and we got something good here, kind of like how Magneto does with Psylocke. And (probably most importantly) we can take Storm's runaway and improve upon that. Dhalsim's air teleport resets his airdashes so he can stay up at the top of the screen INDEFINITELY and call assists. Neat. And we haven't even gotten into triangle dashing yet.

So you can see in this way, we've "innovated" by really doing nothing. Dhalsim is a significantly different character from Magneto or Storm or Iron Man, but because we know that stuff they have works, we can borrow all of these already proven winning ideas and make something new. For the record, people credit me with "innovating" in this way a lot. This is really not as hard as it seems, you just have to know what you're looking for. We know that 8 way dash is, without exception, good. We know that square dashing is good. We know that running away is good. So even though Dhalsim does almost no damage, has mostly useless assists and doesn't have great combos, he can be played a little in competitive play.

--Jay Snyder
Viscant@aol.com

filler

[Satomiblood]

my jill wins tournaments and almost won evo

Do you at least have videos of your Jill in action?

we need a good remixed MvC2 via MUGEN or something...lol.

If the Bombergames crew--the people that are working on a Streets of Rage remake--knew enough about the nuances of SF and the VS series, I'm pretty sure they'd take on that challenge.

[MegamanDS]

Do you at least have videos of your Jill in action?



If the Bombergames crew--the people that are working on a Streets of Rage remake--knew enough about the nuances of SF and the VS series, I'm pretty sure they'd take on that challenge.
ill record some at todays tourney at FFA

[Radiant93]

how about giving megaman an airdash and a fly and fastfly combos.

EDIT: give him also unfly combos. with no means neccesary to activate it = always on unfly mode.

[Satomiblood]

ill record some at todays tourney at FFA

PM me when you get those videos. I'm decent with Jill myself but I never really used her in high level play, which I last did 3 years ago.

[gouki10]

if it's possible for the character to do it in his/her storyline, then yeah it should be or improve.

say MM, there are already many examples of things he could do, but they didn't put in the game.

not look at ryu.........hmmm ryu with an airdash........yeah that would make sense.

however gouki with double fireballs/he comes down with them would be nice.

[skitz]

<---------highest jill

take charlie from xmen vs sf, and cyclops,oh and chunli,oh yea zangief.oh shit i forgot sabre,damn how i forget juggernant,did i mention ryu and wolverine?last but not least gambit and rogue.take them throw em on marvel they way they where.shit would be tight.

[white shadow]

Make Rogue steal moves instead of powers.

[Satomiblood]

So, basically, the best versions of Nash, Cyke, Sabre, Gief, Chun, Gambit, Rogue, Wolvie and Ryu were in XSF? I knew of Nash and Cyke, but I didn't realize it for everyone else until I started watching high level play of XSF.

Does anyone mind giving me a rundown of all the best versions of characters that appeared in prior VS series titles?

[celcius]

It'd be cool if akuma could temporarily turn into shin akuma.

[Vidness]

Akuma's Demon in XSF was only 1 level and did fatty mad damage. That was nice.

I'd like to see this kind of matrix on character selection:

Choose character, then
Choose how they assist:

1. Choose DHC super
2. Choose assist move (can be any special or any normal { inluding jump?})
3. Choose counter (see assist)

Altho I can see some brokenness happening with having Anakaris worshipper move as an assist.

Mmm...Blackheart roundhouse demons as an assist...Psylocke's teleport dash as an assist... Jill's counter as an assist? :)

This isn't necessarily going to help with balance, but I think it will make it more fun.

The way I see it, damage is done in only 3 ways:

1. Misdirection leading into a big combo
2. projectile block damage
3. Throwing leading into a big combo

Will increasing mobility lead to better misdirection for low tier? Possibly, but how would low tier battle Spiral/Sent? Low tier seem to have projectile issues. Throwing to start combos are nice, but getting close to an enemey is aways a problem....Venom has a great throw, but when's the last time you've seen it land?

So to beef up low tier, they need a better way to do #1 or #3, or a way to combat #2. If Anakaris' throw went full screen, then I bet he would be played quite frequently, hence going up in value with #3. If Jill's rush cancled out projectiles like hypergravs, ice, rocks, & drones....she'd be top tier...If Hayato's dash fierce had no lag, he'd go up in #1 and be a big threat. If megaman's mega buster went at 1/2 the speed, then he'd be able to fill the screen with projectiles and go up in #2's department.

Just some thoughts...

[4649]

This is why Capcom needs to get off their ass and make Hyper Marvel Vs Capcom where you can choose char. revisions from XMen CotA, XvSF, MSH, MSHvSf, MVC or MVC2. would be too good.

[Satomiblood]

Would Capcom still need the Marvel license even if they released a revision or anthology of the VS series?

[b1gazn]

This is why Capcom needs to get off their ass and make Hyper Marvel Vs Capcom where you can choose char. revisions from XMen CotA, XvSF, MSH, MSHvSf, MVC or MVC2. would be too good.

the truth

[player2]

I don't play it much now, but there were things I wished were in the game:

(1) The command for Omega Red's was :lk: + :hp: + direction. Since I confuse easily, trying to remember the right combination of quarter-circle motion and button(s) was nerve racking in the heat of battle. Heck, a number of characters could have benefitted from that simple input. Didn't Psylocke lose one of three directions for her psy-flash? And CapAm lost one of 3 directions on his shield slash, if I can recall correctly. Some other characters suffered as a result of the change to 4-button attacks.

(2) Full air-chains. I mean, how is it that Zangief makes it into all of the Vs. battles and can't chain from :lp: to :lk: ? I had been dying to chain a knee-drop into a body splash, and the only way I have ever seen it was in the home version of CvS2, and that was done playing around with the with the 'EX Groove' options. Aside from Zangief, there were a number of characters whose jump-in strategies were changed because they no longer (or never had) the ability to chain from :hp: to :hk: .

(3) More than one level 1 super per character. Zangief only has the SPD. Why couldn't he get a super version of the glowing hand, with the attack range of Chun-Li's Kikosho? Iron Man only has the Proton Cannon. Couldn't he have gotten a homing missiles super? I can't think of anyone else right now who only has one L1 super.

(4) Level 3 supers that kill. There should be no reason why a L3 super should do just a few pixels more damage than a L1 super. Other than showmanship, there's no incentive to use them.

(5) Throws that grab during attacks.

(6) Better versions of certain characters. MvC Chun-Li, MSH Thanos, MSH Spiderman, COTA Psylocke (with MSH supers & :u: + :hk: intact), come to mind.

Enough ranting for now. Too many people like the game.

[Augmint]

This is why Capcom needs to get off their ass and make Hyper Marvel Vs Capcom where you can choose char. revisions from XMen CotA, XvSF, MSH, MSHvSf, MVC or MVC2. would be too good.

:confused:
You do realise that sent in CotA could block while flying?

Omega Red would benefit most from being able to combo his air super ala Guile.

[TS]

Hyper Marvel would be a retarded game. Sentinel blocking while calling assits and doing 20% with normal moves. Runaway Storm...for real. Like, at the top of the screen and not coming down, almost Gambit-glitch-style.

The only thing good about it would be that random character would get (better)infinites (Sabretooth being a good example), but the whole thing could get retarded really, really quickly.

Or maybe I'm wrong and it would be great, who knows.

Rogue who steals attributes is better than OG XSF Rogue. I'd rather take the Defense Up over getting Cable's Psimitar, or the Speed Up for the infinite, rather than get weaksauce Typhoons from Storm.

[Adam Warlock]

Rogue who steals attributes is better than OG XSF Rogue. I'd rather take the Defense Up over getting Cable's Psimitar, or the Speed Up for the infinite, rather than get weaksauce Typhoons from Storm.

Yeah, but you gotta admit rogue with spd is fun. And berserker barrage is better than her normal punches.

[Satomiblood]

Rogue who steals attributes is better than OG XSF Rogue. I'd rather take the Defense Up over getting Cable's Psimitar, or the Speed Up for the infinite, rather than get weaksauce Typhoons from Storm.

I think both can be implemented into her character.

So I was thinking about all of the Marvel/Capcom characters that have appeared in previous installments of the V-series. Which characters would you want and why?

Ryu: XSF, MSF, or MVC
Akuma: XSF, MSF, MVC2
Chun: XSF or MVC
Gief: XSF or MVC
Sakura: MSF, MSF (Dark), or MVC2
Dhaslim: XSF, MSF, or MVC2
Bison: XSF, MSF, or MVC2
Cammy: XSF or MVC2
Sabretooth: XSF or MVC2
Juggernaut: COTA, MSH, XSF, or MVC2
Hulk: MSH, MSF, MVC, or MVC2
Magneto: COTA or MVC2
IM/WM: MSH, MVC, or MVC2
Cyke: XSF or MVC2
Omega: COTA, MSF, MVC2
Sent: COTA or MVC2
CapAm: MSH, MSF, MVC, MVC2
Blackheart: MSH, MSF, or MVC2
Shuma: MSH or MSF
Strider: MVC or MVC2
Spidey: MSF or MVC
Wolvie: XSF, MSF, or MVC

[Solecombo]

They should just make Sagat and Guile own.
Like give them an infinite lockup...or two.
LoL!
I'm so nub when it comes to MvC2....

[MegamanDS]

a couple of my low tiers in action

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=95163EUO

[Shibuya]

i know you all remember marvel vs Capcom (the original one). me and my friend was thinkin that they could have added alot more characters.....like remember the strikers from that game.....they could have added....author from ghost and goblins....or thor..or alot more marvel and capcom characters.....

[Satomiblood]

a couple of my low tiers in action

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=95163EUO

You've got a pretty nice Jill and Iceman. Also, good use of Spiral's ground assist.

[player2]

Secret/alternate characters. Yeah, I know that the game has 56 characters and an alternate Wolverine, but MvC1 left us hanging on some things (or at the very least left me with the impression that we would be getting some new alternate characters in the future).

In one of the endings, Jin was defeated by M. Bison. Afterward, Shadow and Shadow Lady revive him. So, what happened to Shadow Jin? And in Lilith's (?) ending, she and Zangief ram heads and apparently switch bodies. What happened with that?

[Saotome Kaneda]

Secret/alternate characters. Yeah, I know that the game has 56 characters and an alternate Wolverine, but MvC1 left us hanging on some things (or at the very least left me with the impression that we would be getting some new alternate characters in the future).

In one of the endings, Jin was defeated by M. Bison. Afterward, Shadow and Shadow Lady revive him. So, what happened to Shadow Jin? And in Lilith's (?) ending, she and Zangief ram heads and apparently switch bodies. What happened with that?
I remember Liligan being pretty shitty. That would explain Gief's suckiness in MvC2 then.

As for Shadow Jin, MvC2 Jin can barely combo his supers. Just like the other Shadow characters.

MEESHAN CAMPRETE

[MegamanDS]

You've got a pretty nice Jill and Iceman. Also, good use of Spiral's ground assist.
thanks, but honestly, my jill sucked in those matches cause that was my close friend playing me and he knows how to play against her. ill try to get some arcade matches where i OCV people with jill and actually get her trap down.

ive had people yell at me and threaten me cause of my jill cause they dont know how to get out of my traps.

[Satomiblood]

thanks, but honestly, my jill sucked in those matches cause that was my close friend playing me and he knows how to play against her. ill try to get some arcade matches where i OCV people with jill and actually get her trap down.

ive had people yell at me and threaten me cause of my jill cause they dont know how to get out of my traps.

My best Jill team was Jill/Sent/Tron. Filling the screen with shit was never more fun. Also, in regards to your Spiderman, you should pair him with Sent Rocket Punch assist. I do s. short, s. short + Sent, s. roundhouse, j. web call as a pattern to keep my opponents blocking.

[specs]

...anybody wanna tackle how to make Roll better? :rofl: It still puzzles me that she was NERFED in MvC2. :bluu:

And where's Higher-Jin to rant about Jin? :rofl: I wish I could find that thread. "I'M LAUGHING ON THE OUTSIDE BUT CRYING ON THE INSIDE!" :rofl:

Make Rogue steal moves instead of powers.

Wins the thread. Sure, MvC2 Rogue's absorption is probably more practical, but c'mon who didn't have fun stealing Hadoukens from Ryu? :lovin:

(4) Level 3 supers that kill. There should be no reason why a L3 super should do just a few pixels more damage than a L1 super. Other than showmanship, there's no incentive to use them.

Other than maybe Hayato's Level 3, I agree completely.