Vega (Claw) [Archive]

Vega

09-08-2006, 10:50 AM

Know that standing roundhouse is a nice anti-air too, and sometimes crouching fierce. These are alternatives to if you don't have your flip kick ready to go. Standing roundhouse is better overall than crouching fierce...at least I think so. It can cleanly beat Fei Long out of his chicken wing kick thingy, for example.

Another one (more of an air to air) is his jumping forward or away with fierce. It's a nice way to beat out an opponent wall-diving Vega and it has some success with Chun-Li's jumping short kicks. Plus jumping fierce if your ticket to punishing stuff like Honda flying headbutts, Bison flying torpedos, and horizontal Blanka balls.

cam347

09-08-2006, 03:36 PM

Standing HK is def his best AA. Crouching HP is good against a low jumping opponent from a distance.

One thing I like to throw in after a blocked claw roll is cr. MP to wall dive. U can do the regular one or Sky High Claw. Just a good way to fool your opponents.

Graham

09-10-2006, 11:36 PM

soft banning any character just makes you vulnerable to them. On another note he is able to be beaten if you learn his weaknesses of course. but this is a thread about how to win with him.

Ducking fierce is better than standing roundhouse in some situations

Standing roundhouse has some vulnerability issues vs some chars like chuns jumpins. But you can jump straight up and hit fierce to counter her jumpins.

Techniques. Well a basic one that some people might not do is i back off and use triple kick flips to charge my super up. If you arent using his super then get used to it, many characters have certain vunerable situations where its extremely good to use and considering you cant 'miss it' its one of the best supers in the game.

cam347

09-24-2006, 09:24 AM

not to argue but I think standing HK is more suited. It just has to be out early.

Also dont forget you can link a cr. MP off of a standing close HP

fatboy

09-25-2006, 09:45 AM

not to argue but I think standing HK is more suited. It just has to be out early.

Also don’t forget you can link a cr. MP off of a standing close HP

I wish I had my YBH here with me.

I would post the hit box images, then the reason why the cr.feirce is better than the roundhouse would be very obvious.

So, you have to take in faith what I am going to say...LOL.

Basically:

Every character is outlined in colilsion areas. In the game you can't see them but they are there. This is shown when you hit someone. Sparks explode on a characters when the areas collide.

YBH illustrates these areas with the use of blue and red boxes.

The blue box outlines the area where you take damage. (ie. characters body)

The red box is outlines the areas where you give damage. (ie. the extended arm of Ryu's standing friece)

If a red box of player 1 over laps a blue box player 2, player two takes damage.

If both player have both red boxes and both blue boxes over lapping, they hit trade and they both receive damage.

NKI has a link in the wiki that gives examples of the blue & red boxes.

Knowing this we can assert that every move has an optimal hit position. This is where you hit with the part of the red box that is the furthest from the blue box on your character.

This allows you to attack your oppenent with keeping your vulnerable areas as far away as possible from you opponent . Think of this as "priority" in SF lingo.

The Hit box spread (distance between the blue box and the red box) is substantially greater in the cr.ferice than the standing roundhouse. It's spread is twice that than that of the round house, and therefore harder to hit through (it has better higher priority) if you are trying to jump in.

Here is a list characters and some of their highest priority jump ins that have a harder time hitting through a cr.friece than the standing round house. (Off the top of my head)

Ryu, jp.hk
Ken, jp.hk
Chun, Jp. fw
Honda, Jp.mk
Blanka, jp. hk,hp,wk
Zangief, jumping Knee
Guile, jp straight up freice (he pretty much can't jump in against vega)
Dahlsim, drills
T.hawk, dive & Jp.hp
Cammy, jp. mp
Dee Jay, jp.wp,hk,mk
Fei Long, jp. hk
Sagat, jp.hk
Vega, jp.hp
Balrog (boxer) jp.hp
M.bison, jp.hk,mk

Most of these will hit through the standing RH clean (even if rh is at optimal hit position). Where as they may trade or be beaten by the cr.fierce (if cr.fr at optimal position)

I hope this helps. :wgrin: I had to throw it together really quickly.

cam347

09-25-2006, 06:47 PM

once again not arguing but the reason I ASSUMED that HK was better is because of the positioning on cr. HP. But I've seen this YHB thing b4 with Guile. If ya do find it, can u send it to me please. But one last thing, does Flip Kick beat both AA's?

fatboy

09-26-2006, 09:05 AM

once again not arguing.....

I don't think you are:wgrin: . I was just trying to pass some info.

But I've seen this YHB thing b4 with Guile. If ya do find it, can u send it to me please.

Are you looking to buy the book? There is a link in the 'SF Turbo in the house,' thread. If i can get it a color scanner at home to work, I'll put up those two images (cr.hp & standing hk) for comparison.

But one last thing, does Flip Kick beat both AA's? Yeah, it is his best anti-air. Invicbility, good damage (hits x 3), and builds meter, you can't ask for more!..:lovin: ..LOL

jactiaf

09-28-2006, 05:46 PM

a few things are being left out though, as vega's ground game is best used when mixing standing forwards (at both close and medium range) standing fierces (which also has good priority over shoto low roundhouse for example), cr. forwards and strongs. And Graham is right on Vega's super, it's a wonderful tool in his arsenal and can grab rog out of a dashing punch and is just a great way to screw with your opponent's head when you have a full meter. Don't forget either his jumping straight up strong punch as it can snuff a decent amount of air attacks. When Vega is knocked down and your opponent is right on top of you, throw him immediately as you get up as vega has an excellent grab range and would have the wake up advantage anyway since he's the one that's getting back up. I really can't stress enough just poking with his standing forward and other crouching attacks, although be careful around cammy with that as she can give vega a hard time if played patiently. Don't underestimate his jumping short as it can snuff out certain AAs. And lastly, don't be bashful about cheaping with vega, he's designed for throwing out a blocked attack and then following up with a throw. When going against other charge characters, after you knock them down, right before they get up cross them up but don't actually attack, the thing here is that by crossing them up you erase their charge although be careful when doing this against guile as he can still flash kick but if you space your jump right, it won't be that big of a deal anyway.

Graham

09-28-2006, 06:50 PM

ill be brief on some vega strats i use. First off he does shitty damage you probably noticed. So to make up for this i try to use the heavy buttons whenever possible , as in even anti airs since you dont know how frequently you'll hit people try to use the highest damage buttons with him. for anti airs you dont need to use ground necessarily, one of my favorite anti airs is jump straight up and fierce. when playing charge style and approaching with slides, you can do the flip kick as an anti air, this style is relatively annoying to fight against since you cant jump at him but he outranges you on the ground.

Ask some specific questions and ill give ya some answers.

Graham

cam347

09-29-2006, 03:48 PM

shall we move on to match-up's now

when usign Vega I always use him against Vega

Mainly use all of your pokes, keep-away the usual shit. Try for no tick throws. Always try for Claw Roll on waking up Gief's. I dont think he can SPD outta it on wake-up, possible though I'm sure. Also mix-up the wall dive(s) game. From max range standing HP works great against Gief

Vega

09-30-2006, 02:48 PM

No, I'm pretty sure Zangief can do his 3P lariat on wakeup against the claw roll. Maybe someone can test this but for some reason I swear that works.

jactiaf

09-30-2006, 11:15 PM

As for Zangiefs Lariat question, it will knock Vega on his ass if vega does a jab roll.

And by any chance could anyone post any advice on how Claw can handle Blanka, Honda, and Balrog? Any tips and advice would be super helpful, thanks!

Ouroborus

10-01-2006, 01:13 AM

vs blanka, just c.lp, mp all day.

he cant do much against it

UncleBuck

10-04-2006, 07:39 AM

Any advice for handling Chun Li? thx

Graham

10-08-2006, 02:53 AM

Any advice for handling Chun Li? thx

chun has one zone where she can jump in at you, thats when she is near you and you're not charged, too close to jump straight up and fierce and if you're not charged you cant flip kick which is the only counter at this range. What does this mean? dont let her get you in that range. Stay close and charged, if she fireballs, jump at her. poke with low strongs. Slide to move in on her and sometimes hit her as she tries to fireball. Basically you play close turtle style if possible. Imo its advantage vega that matchup.

ThisGuileKillYa

10-13-2006, 08:51 AM

Some claw questions:

1. What's good to do on a dizzy or punish situation? Ive been doing just a jump fierce into a crouch forward or strong, but Id be surprised if better didnt exist.

2. Is it worth it to use the wall dive and MISS, like as a positional mixup? Like a runaway tactic? When ive been wall diving and trying to connect a lot, I like to mix in an intentional whiff, but a lot of times it seems Im still vulnerable.

3. I know a lot of tricks for the wall dive SLASH, like the cross, not cross, which wall to go to, etc etc.. ut any tips on LANDING the wall dive THROW? Mainly Im asking because of the super. Is it a "the threat is stronger than the execution" thing where I can expect to land a lot of slashes on people scared of the throw?

4. If I time my flip kick reversal perfectly every time, is there anything that should beat it?

5. Are there any key matchups a claw player should know about? Like ones he either has a lot of problems with or should win for free?

CapMaster

10-16-2006, 07:35 PM

On a dizzy, I prefer to try a fierce Claw Roll as they are getting up. My goal is to try to get the last three-four hits, which includes the part where he sticks out the claw to combo. The key is getting the claw part to hit, it is the most damaging. Otherwise, try a throw or wall dive I guess.

Typically for me, other reversal specials can beat the flipkick. I don't have any frame data to back this up, but I've lost out to DPs going at it at the exact same time.

Key matchups? Depending who you ask, Honda is a tough one for Vega and to me his only badly deficient matchup. You kinda gotta out turtle Honda here, but unfortunetly he has more options to out turtle you. You must be spot-on hitting your flip kicks to counter his sumo headbutt should he go for it. Otherwise your best shot is to get a knockdown, then go for crossover wall dive stuff. The crossover is vital because it can turn Honda around and make him lose the charge for his headbutt.

Some say Bison is a tough matchup too, but I like to take advantage of the fact Bison has no wake up reversal by pounding him with wakeup stuff such as dives, meaty clawrolls, and ticks. In this match is seems whoever gets on top of who first wins.

Besides that, Vega seems to do at worst alright against every other character. Chun can give him trouble, but so can vice versa. Shoto and Sagat matchups to me seem more dependant on the players. Vega is the one character can do well against Sim, very well VS Guile, and to me Blanka, Zangief, Hawk are almost free wins.

fatboy

10-17-2006, 01:24 PM

Vega is the one character can do well (against)... Blanka.

Can you tell me more about. I ALWAY have problems with Vega vs. Blanka.
Thanks!:wgrin:

CapMaster

10-17-2006, 09:54 PM

Can you tell me more about. I ALWAY have problems with Vega vs. Blanka.
Thanks!:wgrin:

This matchup gave me trouble too for a while. Once you learn it though you'll get better at it.

Charge back/Walk backward the whole round. If he balls, you can either flip kick through it, try one of the other counters suggested, or block, take a small step forward, standing fierce. Sounds basic, but this one strategy of stting there with Vega is good enough. Eventually, especially if you have a lead, he has to try something to come to you.Funny, cause doing anything else can be trouble with Blanka. Wake up balls or electricity can stop cross over wall dives. If the Blanka is good at wake up balls, it can stop doing meaty Claw Rolls on top of him. Just keep him out and wear him down. Don't go into his meathouse.

In the original everything ST thread DSP broke this match down pretty good and it helped me out. See if you can find it somewhere.

Ouroborus

10-18-2006, 11:32 AM

keep him at bay with c.lp and c.mp to wear him down and use the slide occasionally..

the only thing he can do from there is whiff a blanka ball from a distance to get in and into the crossup lk and/or throw since vegas c.lp/c.mp beats pretty much everything blanka throws at him on the ground.

when you do get crossed up, that means trouble since vega has no real anti air against it. also his throw range is much greater than yours and has a lot of nasty setups afterwards so do anything to not let him get in.

dont try the wall dive crossup shenennigans against him. its very easy for him to upball or even electricity you out of it almost every time.

fatboy

10-19-2006, 08:59 AM

Snip...
I'll try to find that thread... Thanks!

Snip...
Thanks!

------------

This has been one of my harder match ups.
I have not played this match ups enough to figure out what to do.
Good info.
+ Rep for you guys.

NowhereMan

10-23-2006, 09:00 PM

Hey guys. I've been reading a lot of these strategy threads on Vega, and one of his major strong points seems to be being able to 'store' his Super Special Move.

My point being, all I've got to play on is SF: Anniversary Edition, and I've tried storing Vega's super with no avail.

Was this a glitch that they fixed in Anniversary Edition? Or am I just not getting the motion out right?

-NowhereMan-

NowhereMan

11-03-2006, 06:46 PM

[bump]

Anyone?

I've been looking for a while, and I haven't found anything.

-NowhereMan-

Soundatron

11-03-2006, 07:08 PM

his super never had the store glitch only Chun & Honda.

NowhereMan

11-03-2006, 07:30 PM

Oh, well thanks then.

Do you know if Chun and Honda's work in AE then?

lol I know, kind of redundant.

-NowhereMan-

Vega

11-09-2006, 09:47 PM

Yeah the stored specials/supers work as long as you hold the start button when selecting Super Turbo as your play style.

You know that works for the old versions of characters too. Like if you wanted O. Fei Long you'd hold start while selecting Super as your play style.

I don't know why they did the stupid "codes" like that but whatever. At least they made the option available I guess. :smile:

Kyokuji

11-11-2006, 05:17 AM

What good would storing Vega's super do anyway? Lol.
Not like it's instant or anything.

Soundatron

11-11-2006, 10:47 AM

What good would storing Vega's super do anyway? Lol.
Not like it's instant or anything.

exactly. I mean his super aint that great. It either hits or not lol.

Mizuki

02-12-2007, 09:27 PM

Is O.Claw any good? Since his super is like not too great, is there an advantage of using O.Claw?

Duck Strong

02-13-2007, 03:01 PM

Graham

02-13-2007, 04:24 PM

I'd be really surprised if jump in :hp:, cr:mk: , cr:mk: , cr:mp: doesn't do more damage.

P.S. Vega is lame, pick someone else.

I bet Nowhereman was alluding to the fact that Vega doesn't use up his meter unless he actually connects his super in original ST. Anyhow... I think this is fixed in AE and can be fixed in ST via dip switches. With the fix his meter is used up as soon as he bounces off the wall (which decreases the usefulness of the super by a large margin as far as I'm concerned.)

Can't believe no one picked up on that. I don't even play Vega and I know it...

Actually its not 'broken' and never was. This is how all grab supers in ST are made, they don't use their super until they grab the enemy. You might be thinking of more generic street fighter versions that came out later.

If you don't like Vega, why are you posting on the Vega thread?

~TeN~

02-13-2007, 06:26 PM

Best counter to close ranged hurricane kick....?

I know st.Strong beats it from a distance but close range i take quite the beating from it

Graham

02-14-2007, 01:32 PM

Best counter to close ranged hurricane kick....?

I know st.Strong beats it from a distance but close range i take quite the beating from it

duck it and throw it as it falls and is still stuck

Professor Jones

02-14-2007, 03:26 PM

I'd say make him land on a cr. forward, cr. strong combo.

Graham

02-14-2007, 04:15 PM

I'd say make him land on a cr. forward, cr. strong combo.

nod the problem with that is the startup time on low forward. It takes much longer when you dont know when they'll land, so you might be too slow and they can hit you. Throw is almost instant. plus if they fall behind you, you're screwed

Duck Strong

02-15-2007, 01:16 PM

Actually its not 'broken' and never was. This is how all grab supers in ST are made, they don't use their super until they grab the enemy. You might be thinking of more generic street fighter versions that came out later.

If you don't like Vega, why are you posting on the Vega thread?

Well I didn't really mean to imply that the move was "broken", but obviously Capcom saw fit to change its properties on subsequent versions of the game whereas Gief's a Hawk's Supers were left untouched.

Although I'm not quite sure what you mean by "more generic" versions (SF collection 1 or AE maybe?), in the DC version you can play around with the dip switches to correct certain bugs like Ken and Dhalsim not being able to reverse with their supers. Iirc that same fix alters Vega's super in the way I described before.

Oh and take what I said about Vega with a grain of salt, I was just joking.

~TeN~

02-15-2007, 02:28 PM

I'd say make him land on a cr. forward, cr. strong combo.

That is what I was, well trying to do .... but what Graham said is what was happening to me.... when trying to make him land on cr.forward it's like 50/50

jaminbenjamin

02-16-2007, 08:36 AM

Hmm I swear I've seen instances where Zangief has used his super meter but not gotten the through (might have involved his whiff animation and someone reversing...)

Mizuki

02-20-2007, 08:27 PM

I'm just bringing this question up again, Can anyone tell me if there's any advantages of playing oclaw vs nclaw?

CapMaster

02-20-2007, 08:32 PM

Absolutely not. new claw far and away.

azis

03-20-2007, 08:20 AM

About Stored Specials:

I´ve seen people saying Vega has no Stored Special.

The true is that he has no Stored Super (Wall Dive).

But he has the Flick Stored, you can confirm by reading NKI´s wiki, but I´ll cover it up here shortly:

Charge DB. Done!

Since you has charged, just don´t press the direction FORWARD. You can Jump back, press s.back+Roundhouse, s.back+mk.

To release, just press Toward+Kick.

You can see ARG (the japanese Vega Player) using this a lot of times, like, corner the opponent, jump in HP, c.mk, c.mp (now it is charged), s.back+mk or s.back+mp/HP. Sometimes the opponent have a impulse to jump in when he sees Vega Standing. Good for you, just press F+Kick, and you will get a free 3 Hits Juggle combo.

Vega Wall Dive Super:

I don´t remember who said this special is not good. It is definitely not good, it is awesome! Just do the super when the opponent feel safe do use a hadouken, or when you see the animation, I will cover up Chun-li to show how great it is. Do it, and once you are in the back wall (if you can cross-up the wall dive against Honda, for example, good, do it), you can press the button EARLY to grab Chun-li´s jumping back, if you press very soon, you will hit her with the claw, she will fall, giving time for you to charge and try again, or mix-up. If you press timed right, you will grab her (this time is very short, but I don´t know exactly how much), in this way, you can also grab shoryukens, not deep Shoryukens, cause when Shots are invincible, they are not "Grabable" (WTF?!), so is Boxer´s Headbutt anti-air. But grab them in the tip of the glove, at the maximum ou medium DP height. It will work.

The use of the Early button press works (and it will answer one of the page 2 first post questions about runaway) like when you are running away when cornered. Jump in back wall to wall dive, press punch as soon as you can, while holding forward to flee. It will hit standing characters in mid/close range screen, jumping in, falling from a jump in (when they try to lure you or just get close, and this is a perfect time to land a Super!), etc, the worst situation is being hit by a reverse DP when they are close to you, but you are free, anyway, from the corner.

It is fast, you can runaway almost safe.

Don´t work against psychic DPs.

And about New or Old Claw, as I said the Super is Awesome, New claw for sure. The super takes Half life bar. The other half you already took!

azis

03-20-2007, 09:47 AM

Oh Yeah, just to be clear, I was talking about the most difficult situations to land the super, just to show how wonderful it is.

Of course that a Chun in the top of her jump (toward or backward) will beat you. So is Ryu at the top of the back jump roundhouse.

Don't waste your time when your opponent is waiting for the super, specially in full screen distance and when you just filled the meter.

And don´t try to land one in Fei Long Flame Kick as you do in DPs.

nothingxs

03-27-2007, 10:05 PM

Can someone help me with Claw VS Chun-Li, Dictator and Blanka?

CapMaster

03-28-2007, 07:46 PM

Claw VS Blanka is a funny match. Most struggle with it at first, but once you learn it it can become a free win for you.

Sit back. Any blocked rolling attack is a free standing fierce for you. You catch them with this a few times, they may try to do a jab or strong ball into throw/hop/whatever. Watch for this, then sweep it. You can flipkick balls too of course. Use crouching strong to keep him away. be careful going for wall dives, as both rolling attacks and electricity can beat it. Sit back, and by never let him get into his cross up short range. That's where this match is lost. Keep him out of that range and you will whittle him down.

Vs Chun Li..I like to be ready to pounce on any kikoken she throws. I go for wall dives from across the screen when I see one, or if in close if she throws one hop it and go for a combo. Without a\ having her upkicks charged, chun li has trouble stopping a jumping Claw with her ground moves. I play this match by being aggressive and just going at Chun. Her air moves beat yours, even though jump strong sometimes is effective. She also has some trouble stopping wall dives shenanigans, her upkick has to be perfect. Stay on offense. You lose this match if Chun can press you.

Dictator..I still am struggling with this match, but here's what I can tell you. Bison has no reversal outside of super. So everytime you get him knocked down, that's a free claw roll or wall dive attempt for you. Bison's kicks (scissors, standing forward, crouching forward) will give you major trouble, and his jump strong will neutralize your air attacks. Have your eyes ready to try to flip kick any scissor kick or psycho crusher so you can get that all important knockdown.To me, this match goes the first one to get a knockdown wins. Keep Dictator on the floor.

Bad Recovery

04-03-2007, 12:27 PM

What's the best way of knocking down an opponent for wall dive craziness? crouching roundhouse?

CapMaster

04-03-2007, 02:45 PM

Crouching roundhouse, flip kick, throw, or even..a call dive will put them on the floor

HP87

04-25-2007, 08:46 AM

Is Claw's most practical and damaging combo c.foward > c.strong only? Because somehow I find it hard to deal damage if I can't get my opponent knocked down for wall dive meaties.

azis

04-25-2007, 12:49 PM

I think this is the most practical if you jump in, cause I can't charge a rolling attack. But people say it is possible.

Ouroborus

04-25-2007, 01:36 PM

Is Claw's most practical and damaging combo c.foward > c.strong only? Because somehow I find it hard to deal damage if I can't get my opponent knocked down for wall dive meaties.

yeah. it does a good chunk and pretty easy to do after a jump in.

wall dives isnt the only thing he has going for him though. like nki said once before, one of the best vega players, ARG just spams a lot of pokes and the occasional wall up throw.

Bilskirnir

05-12-2007, 07:20 AM

Anyone know what the difference is when you use Low kick,Medium kick or fierce for wall-dive?

azis

05-22-2007, 05:18 PM

I´m almost sure that there is no difference.

I turned on the CCC2, but I couldn´t notice anything.

Good. You can do piano input, it will result in the same Wall Dive.

azis

05-22-2007, 10:16 PM

I don´t know who know about it. It is not great deal.

But you can do Vega´s (Claw) super with only 3 direction. Down, D/f, U/b. As this super is wonderful, it may be useful.

This was performed on MAMEHK2V9, that shows the key data when you press scroll lock.

I don´t know about Guile yet. You probably can do it the same way.

You may think: "What a great moron, everybody knows it". I didn´t, I´ve been always charging Down/back, then df, db, up (any). I´m just expecting to be useful, since I didn´t find this anywhere.

Enough Talk, :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfhRh-xS32E

The other video you can find in my channel is to teach and explain some friends that you don't need the full 360 motion to perform a SPD.

Logos

05-23-2007, 11:44 AM

Thanks for that, I certainly didn't know you could do that.

NKI

05-23-2007, 09:39 PM

Believe it or not, the actual command for Guile's and Claw's supers is:
charge down, towards, back, up+kick

Majestros is the one who showed me that.

Footsy Bebop

05-23-2007, 10:14 PM

do you mean d/f, d/b, up and kick or standing forward and standing back, up and kick?

azis

05-24-2007, 12:11 PM

Like Zangief SPD, it needs only the four main directions?

I know you can toss a hadouken with d/f, f+p.

But look:

http://img451.imageshack.us/img451/5215/simples1vl1.jpg

There is no back direction there, the u/b must be considered as up, cause instead, the super wouldn´t come.

You can see in my video, that after the 2 kick buttons pressed, as piano inputs, the back arrow just appear after a while, nullifying the possibility of the back direction being present in the super command. Therefore, even if it would pressed faster, you can´t do the super in a reverse way, it would be like a Shinku hadouken finishing with f, d/f, d + p. So, this shows that only 3 directions are needed.

Anyway, you will never miss trying to finish in u/b + K.

I´ll try to clear the unnecessary movements, as the Zangief SPD I did here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mX0AZ_cjDqQ

To get rid from any doubts.

fatboy

05-24-2007, 02:30 PM

Goryus

05-24-2007, 02:45 PM

I tried this yesterday...

Facing right:

db, df, ub+ kick. I jump to the back left wall and YES the super came out.

However, When I tried:

df, db, uf +kick and jumped towards the Right wall. The supper never activated...

Thoughts, input? Anyone?

Does the short super only work on the bak wall?

I have a programmable controller, and just tried this out (with Guile, but still...).

I set it to charge db, then do df, ub + k. Super every time.

Then set it to charge df, then do db, uf + k. Flash kick every time.

Edit: Just switched to Vega and ran the same macros. Got super with db, df, ub + k, and got regular wall dive with df, db, uf + k.

ThisGuileKillYa

05-24-2007, 03:03 PM

Most likely because downback is what you need to charge, so df wasnt really charging anything. The front wall would probably be db, df, uf

Goryus

05-24-2007, 03:35 PM

Most likely because downback is what you need to charge, so df wasnt really charging anything. The front wall would probably be db, df, uf

Nope, that just gives regular wall bounce too.

azis

05-24-2007, 04:54 PM

Yeah, guys, I noticed that and was planning a video, because that was not so clear to me, but I didn´t have time. The first one I did in a moment of boredom, with a few extra time. I a little busy now, but I will explain.

Forgot something:
There is a relation of opposite directions for the super to come out. BUT, you can charge with only DOWN, instead of down/back.

Here is what I was planning:
NOTE: A little bit confusing, just pay a little extra attention.

I noticed that the direction you charge differs in the last direction for the super to come out.

In the video: d, d/f, u/b. Ok.
But if you charge D/B, instead of just down, you can do: D/b, d/f, UP.
It is like the opposite directions working, cause if you carge D, you MUST finish with D/B. But if you charge D/B, you can finish in UP, but if you wish, with U/B too.

Both ways work with 3 directions.

IT IS JUST SOMETHING I FOUND, NO BIG DEAL AT ALL.

IF you want the super to come IN THE FRONT WALL, you need at least four directions, and the shortened form I only could find was:
D/B, D/F, D, U/F

and I was noticing in CCC2 that

D, D/F, D, U/F also works, but I need to confirm in that MAME or if you guys with programmable controller could help me, I will be thankful.

Was I clear? I hope so, if you have any doubts, I have them too, lol. Within a little time, we will clear all this stuff.

Goryus

05-25-2007, 09:42 AM

Alright, I sat down with my programmable pad and tried a billion variations on this. Here are the results, listed from simplest to most complex:

WORKS:
D, F, UB
D, F, B, U
D, DF, UB
DB, F, UB
D, F, B, UF
DB, DF, UB
DB, F, B, UF
DB, F, B, UB
DB, F, B, UF
DB, DF, D, UB
DB, DF, DB, U
DB, DF, DB, UF
DB, DF, DB, UB

FAILS:
DF, UB
DB, UF
D, DF, U
D, DF, UF
D, DB, UF
DB, D, UF
DB, D, U
DB, DF, U
DB, D, UB
DB, DF, UF
DB, DF, D, U
DB, DF, D, UF

Looks like NKI is right and the "real" motion for Guile and Vega's supers is down, forward, back, up. You have to hit all four of those contacts in order if you want the super to go off. You can shorten the motion a bit while still accomplishing this task...the best "shortcuts" seem to be:

D, F, UB
D, DF, UB
DB, F, UB
DB, DF, UB

azis

05-25-2007, 02:33 PM

Excellent work!

Can we assume that using:

D, F, UB
D, DF, UB
DB, F, UB
DB, DF, UB

Results in te super because the game counts the last UB input as BACK AND UP? So that we shortened for 3 directions?

So that we can explain why we can´t do the super finishing in U or UF withou passing again through the back.

That means that the shortened form is just a shortened way to draw the command.

But it helped me, I never more do DB, DF, DB, U (any). Now I go just for DB, DF, UB.

fatboy

05-30-2007, 01:09 PM

Snip...
Wow. Nice gob Goryus! That answers my question! +Rep :wgrin:

Eduardo24

06-02-2007, 06:51 AM

Is it true that Claw has less health than the other chars?

Goryus

06-02-2007, 05:25 PM

No, see here:

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=3913809&postcount=59

Khiempossible

06-15-2007, 09:43 PM

So what's the werd on Claw vs. Chun?

I have no experience with this matchup, and I'm MMing this chun player. Anyone have tips? what am I looking for? what should I watch for? what am I trying to do?

also what's balrog's most damaging dizzy combo?

I'm thinking low strong xx flip kicks -> flip kicks

that or jump fierce low fierce

or low forward low strong xx options

super also works.

The thing is that if I dizzy its usually from someone eating roll. If I walk forward it's tough to get that charge in time for combos.

I usually roll and go for the low strong link.

gilley

06-15-2007, 10:49 PM

j. fierce > c. forward, > flip kick > flip kick is what I do when they're dizzy. The hard part is of course charging for the first flip kick while jumping. I recommend using japanese sticks cause you can usually charge faster on them :wgrin:

Ouroborus

06-16-2007, 05:40 AM

So what's the werd on Claw vs. Chun?

vega wins. just have them flip kicks ready

Khiempossible

06-27-2007, 12:28 PM

alright, next question. How does the boxer vs claw match play out? Any advice? I have trouble counter hitting random rush punches between my pokes.

ThisGuileKillYa

08-12-2007, 04:20 PM

Silks

08-13-2007, 01:49 AM

Quoted from nohoho's player profile on ARG:

The highlight of ARG's fighting style is his corner trap. Like trapped birds, his opponents flutter fruitlessly as they are stabbed to death. Fear the horrible "Bird Cage of the Claw."

Any idea what this is about? What is looks like? How we can be using this? etc etc

: D

I've got some vids of him doing that, but I don't know if they are on the web anywhere anymore. ARG is great at locking you down with pokes. He's one claw player that doesn't have to just spam wall dives to win. It's like a work of art watching him stand just less than half screen away and psychic poke the shit outta his opp.

fatboy

08-13-2007, 09:12 AM

Any idea what this is about? What is looks like? How we can be using this? etc etc

Xmania 7, A block finals, versus ShootingD's Ryu. Very NICE. :karate: He's a Ninja.

Khiempossible

08-20-2007, 08:51 AM

Can someone explain the claw/sim match for me? I hate getting into the tick trap, cause I swear my throw range is less than dhalsims. Does my jump fierce beat his anti air s.MK or his karate chop? which of his moves beat my low strong?

mr. newbie

08-27-2007, 08:53 PM

claw v claw?

CapMaster

08-27-2007, 09:23 PM

claw v claw?

Don't get knocked down. Ever. To me, this match is all about who can land the first wall dive.

Razorfist

09-07-2007, 11:06 AM

Can someone help me with Claw VS Chun-Li, Dictator and Blanka?

The best thing you can do against Blanka is upset his charges by going to the opposite wall, then play with your opponent's head by moving the control stick back and forth while you're in the air. (This is a good thing to do against uppercut and flash kick-crazy opponents, too) This leaves some doubt in their mind as to where you'll drop, and you can zoom in at the last possible second and Izuna Drop them (or if you already had it charged, super combo), assuming they're not using the electrical attack, in which case, pull back, drop about a body length in front of him, and slide kick. Some Blankas go crazy with the anti-air roll, which can be tough (though not as tough as it was on Hyper Fighting) but a simple block / slide strategy ends that party before it starts.

Best advice in general? Charge during EVERYTHING. Your thumb should be glued to down-back, but the trick is to not look like you're charging. The Backslash (Vega's backflip evasion move) helps with that, it's invincible if done at range, it removes the necessity of blocking, and while you do it, you can charge for a wall jump or a Rolling Crystal Flash. Doing a half-Backslash and then going to the wall for a Sky High Claw, Rolling Crystal Flash, or even breaking out the Scarlet Terror (Flash Kick) really throws your opponent's timing off. If you must jump attack, always go with the Jump MP. It's quick, and it gets you more than a few nasty air throws.

My biggest gripe about Pros who use Vega is they're way too afraid to Barcelona Attack, and they simply don't half-backslash enough. There's this tendency to play him like Balrog, and just use his flash kick as a buffalo headbutt, and to simply pick away at your opponent. I don't like that approach, because you can do obscene amounts of damage with the wall jump / Izuna Drop combo, and there are more than a few ways to execute it safely. For instance, the prevailing wisdom against a Ken or Sagat is to stick to your ground game, because of how lethal their anti-air arsenal is. However, if you can manage to draw the Dragon Punch or Tiger Uppercut out of your opponent, (best done with fakes, such as a LP Rolling Crystal Flash) you can hop right off the opposite wall and grab him on his way down, or launch a nasty combo right in his face.

ThisGuileKillYa

09-07-2007, 06:23 PM

If you must jump attack, always go with the Jump MP. It's quick, and it gets you more than a few nasty air throws.

Most of what you're saying I agree with, but this one I'm not so sure. Are you talking air to air or air to ground? Air to air I agree it will net you some air throws. But air to ground, he has better. Jump fierce is my go-to because it has a nice hitbox, and leads beautifully into either cFK, cSP or throw (an important mixup for Claw). I find myself using a lot of jump RK as well, but it's got a really small hitbox so unless you're spacing it perfectly, the fierce is more advisable. A lot of pros will use jump FK, too, I presume for its ticking ability, but I don't use it much. Style thing I guess.

Jump strong DOES have a good use, though. Jump attacking from a greater distance. For jSP to be the jump attack of choice you have to be a step back further from where you'd typically use his other stuff. It's got much better range than his other attacks so you can tag em w/ the tip from a different range than they normally get used to.

I'm gonna mess with jSP just to make sure I'm not putting my foot in my mouth, but for air to ground fierce should be your 1st candidate. (also note jump straight up FK makes for a good tick on wakeups if you're confident they won't DP you for it)

Graham

09-08-2007, 06:57 AM

Most of what you're saying I agree with, but this one I'm not so sure. Are you talking air to air or air to ground? Air to air I agree it will net you some air throws. But air to ground, he has better. Jump fierce is my go-to because it has a nice hitbox, and leads beautifully into either cFK, cSP or throw (an important mixup for Claw). I find myself using a lot of jump RK as well, but it's got a really small hitbox so unless you're spacing it perfectly, the fierce is more advisable. A lot of pros will use jump FK, too, I presume for its ticking ability, but I don't use it much. Style thing I guess.

Jump strong DOES have a good use, though. Jump attacking from a greater distance. For jSP to be the jump attack of choice you have to be a step back further from where you'd typically use his other stuff. It's got much better range than his other attacks so you can tag em w/ the tip from a different range than they normally get used to.

I'm gonna mess with jSP just to make sure I'm not putting my foot in my mouth, but for air to ground fierce should be your 1st candidate. (also note jump straight up FK makes for a good tick on wakeups if you're confident they won't DP you for it)

Yup thats the truth, fierce is your best high priority air to ground attack. Using roundhouse will get you some more speed though since it reaches lower earlier, i use it on occasion when my fierce wont reach a fireballing character in time before they can block or dp. Also roundhouse can hit dhalsims short slide whereas fierce will whiff since it cant hit that low. As for jumping strong, i usually use it in air to air distance fights or when i jump at a ryu from a long distance purposely to 'safe jump' if he throws a fireball, ill tag him with that into a low strong from far. Simple 2 hit combo does nice damage though.

mr. newbie

09-08-2007, 12:31 PM

i've been 3k flipping wall dives in claw/claw matches. if i'm in the corner i try to beat it with jump mp. what do you guys do?

Graham

09-08-2007, 02:05 PM

i've been 3k flipping wall dives in claw/claw matches. if i'm in the corner i try to beat it with jump mp. what do you guys do?

thats exactly what i had planned for tokido when i was gonna play him. of course i was gonna make one of my buttons 3K so it would be easier to bust reversals on wakeup. Anyway thats exactly how you beat it but i do charged flashkicks in corner instead.

Razorfist

09-08-2007, 08:57 PM

ThisGuileKillYa, I agree with you. On ST, Capcom switched his jumping MP so that not only is it not as effective as on Hyper Fighting, but many times if you do it to a ducking opponent, you will whiff them entirely. On Turbo HF, his jumping MP is great for anti-air and anti-ground alike. ST, it's usually best to do a jumping HK or HP. My mistake.

And to answer the Claw / Claw match question - the best approach for me against wall-jumpers is air-throwing them, but sometimes when the speed is set high it gets way too difficult to properly time that air-throw, and I stick to flash-kicking at the last second.

CapMaster

09-09-2007, 05:56 AM

Graham- Any advice on Vega(Claw) vs Bison (Dictator)? This is the one match that has always eluded me, and i don't play against enough Bisons to get trained for this match. To me it seems Vega is at a disadvantage. Thoughts?

Graham

09-09-2007, 10:53 AM

its a tough match, best advice is alot of patience.

dont try fancy stuff, block his scissors and do throws afterward if he does them too close, a good way to make him do that is by walking forward a tiny bit just enough so he cant do it at his perfect range

Razorfist

09-11-2007, 01:31 PM

jchensor

09-13-2007, 02:28 PM

Against Bison, the Scarlet Terror (flash kick) is murder, because if timed properly, it'll knock him out of short Psycho Crushers, and it also prevents him from abusing his jumping HK in perpetuity. Once you scare your opponent away from that jumping HK, bouncing to the opposite wall fouls up his charges and pretty much ruins his day. Oh, and alot of Bison players (even experts) are soft low, because for some reason the Pump Kick is easier to do by holding straight back as opposed to down-back. Avoid slide-kicking him, but attacking him low with LKs and MKs is effective.

I'm not sure about that, actually. Vega's flash kick is such a high risk move against Bison. Most Bison players I know never jump at opponents often anyhow, so the threat of a Razor Kick againt a Jumping Bison seems moot. And if you try and Flash Kick Scissor Kicks on reaction or by prediction, either of them will get you killed if he baited you and you whiff.

And if I'm charged and you go off the back wall, a Fierce Psycho Crusher pretty much is a Get Out of Jail Free card. Either Vega gets hit or you both whiff and nothing happens. If Vegas tries to go off the other wall (to make Bison lose his charge), he's actually in too good of a position for Bison to Jump attack defensive and escape (and you give Bison a lot more time to react by trying to fly over his head).

Also, for Ground to Ground combat, Bison's Crouch Forward beats almost everything Vega does (it's stupid). So I dunno... This fight is definitely in Bison's favor, IMO. Vega basically has to play a different game than the one he normally plays to win.

- James
http://jchensor.blogspot.com

nohoho

09-13-2007, 05:46 PM

Some Blankas go crazy with the anti-air roll, which can be tough (though not as tough as it was on Hyper Fighting) but a simple block / slide strategy ends that party before it starts.
Could you elaborate on this a little? I'm always on the lookout for new Blanka strategies and this anti-air roll party that can be tough for Vega sounds pretty sweet.

fatboy

09-14-2007, 08:35 AM

Could you elaborate on this a little? I'm always on the lookout for new Blanka strategies and this anti-air roll party that can be tough for Vega sounds pretty sweet.

Off topic and wrong thread.. But I know you'll come beach here..LOL..
Are you going to do that blanka write up on the blog?

"I've been patiently waiting kind sir! Please give to the children! We know not Blanka love.." :lol: ...

nohoho

09-14-2007, 08:19 PM

Ehhhh I really lost my motivation for that project for a variety of reasons. Anyway I think I may start working on more Sengoku Basara X stuff. Also I've been meaning to do some Vampire Savior related posts.

SINCE you brought it up, I do have something I did a while ago. Scope the Blanka thread.

fatboy

09-15-2007, 03:05 PM

Nori

09-27-2007, 01:58 PM

Corner-Trap

09-27-2007, 04:28 PM

In SF2T, how does Vega deal with Sagat? I couldn't find any info on this matchup. I don't seem to have as much freedom nor a good anti air to stop his jumping foward abuse. Any advice? I'm generally having a problem with shotos/sagat:(

Anti-Airs:

-flipkicks
-s.roundhouse
-c.fierce
-j.fierce

Dealing with projectiles:

-Jump :razzy:
-Wall dive

You should be focusing more on Vega's ground game in this match-up. Reversal DP's really fuck up your wall-dive wake-up game.

Nori

09-27-2007, 04:41 PM

Anti-Airs:

-flipkicks
I thought he only had flipkicks in SSF2T and not SF2T? Maybe my timing is off, or the guy's zoning is good because he's harassing me with those and my c. fierce, s. roundhouse are all getting raped.

So on the shotos/sagat, I should avoid the wall dive because of random DPs?

Corner-Trap

09-27-2007, 06:27 PM

I thought he only had flipkicks in SSF2T and not SF2T? Maybe my timing is off, or the guy's zoning is good because he's harassing me with those and my c. fierce, s. roundhouse are all getting raped.

So on the shotos/sagat, I should avoid the wall dive because of random DPs?

Oh, I thought you were just talking about ST(since this is a ST board). No he doesn't have flipkicks in any other version of SF2 outside of ST. And yes you shouldn't whore out wall dives because reversal DP's will rape you. And don't forget you have backflip to avoid jump ins(I haven't seen people do it often, but it is an option).

SweetJohnnyV

09-27-2007, 07:37 PM

So on the shotos/sagat, I should avoid the wall dive because of random DPs?

You can use wall dives, but you gotta use them carefully. What you want to do is do wall dives from the wall behind you and then hold back, so you don't land anywhere near them. They'll DP and sail into the air, hitting nothing, and then you can hit them while their coming down, or throw them as their landing(a bit more dangerous). After you've baited their DP a few times, you could try to mix it up with a wall dive that actually hits them when they get up.

But in general, I agree with Corner Trap. Focus on your ground game. Jump over fireballs and do a simple 2-hit combo. Don't pressure them too much tho. Just do a move or two and then pause for a second. Let them do their DP or throw out a kick and hit them while their recovering.

If you can avoid the DP's you should fair pretty well. The only other thing to look out for is hurricane kicks. If you're playing SF2T, then really watch out for Ryu's hurricane kick. It's deadly. It's invincible on startup and finish and knocks down. Don't try to hit him while he's doing it. Just slide the hell out of the way and wait for him to DP or whatever when he lands. Then hit him. In ST, dealing with hurrican kicks should be a bit easier.

Nori

09-27-2007, 08:32 PM

You can use wall dives, but you gotta use them carefully. What you want to do is do wall dives from the wall behind you and then hold back, so you don't land anywhere near them. They'll DP and sail into the air, hitting nothing, and then you can hit them while their coming down, or throw them as their landing(a bit more dangerous). After you've baited their DP a few times, you could try to mix it up with a wall dive that actually hits them when they get up.

But in general, I agree with Corner Trap. Focus on your ground game. Jump over fireballs and do a simple 2-hit combo. Don't pressure them too much tho. Just do a move or two and then pause for a second. Let them do their DP or throw out a kick and hit them while their recovering.

If you can avoid the DP's you should fair pretty well. The only other thing to look out for is hurricane kicks. If you're playing SF2T, then really watch out for Ryu's hurricane kick. It's deadly. It's invincible on startup and finish and knocks down. Don't try to hit him while he's doing it. Just slide the hell out of the way and wait for him to DP or whatever when he lands. Then hit him. In ST, dealing with hurrican kicks should be a bit easier.

This is all great info, thanks! I also sent you a friend request on live, I'm NYNoriNY. Is there a thread with JUST Turbo info?

ThisGuileKillYa

09-28-2007, 12:29 AM

Poorly planned wall dives certainly are DP bait. However, well planned wall dives are what give Vega the edge over Shotos/Sagat. The idea is that by making it unclear which side you're going to land on, the opponent does not know which way to DP. Proper understanding and execution of this idea is what makes Dr. Claw so nasty that people cry about soft bans and act like the game's #4 ranked character is broken. Makes me giggle.

My advice if you're just starting out is to never wall dive (with the exception of the fakeout wall dives SweetJohnnyV refered to) unless you've knocked them down first. Then go nuts, and make it really hard for them to know which way they have to do their DP motion if they plan to reverse. Reversal DP has to be timed pretty much to the frame, which is already tricky, but is WAY harder when you're not even sure which way you need to motion. Wall diving when they're standing is when it's much more easily defended with a DP or, like, jump back Roundhouse etc.

You can even take this a step farther and generalize your match strategy as follows: If Vega scores a knockdown, he wins. Of course it won't be so simple vs good players, but keeping to this mindset will win you a LOT of rounds. Weaker players will be nearly unable to touch you. And if you get the hang of timing your wall dive slashes nice and meaty, and mixing up which wall you jump to and which side you end up on, even good players can get real frustrated real quick. Somehow even DP-god John Choi succomed to abuse of this tactic at evo. Can't wait for the dvd to see exactly how. I'm a hardcore Vega supporter and this has even me completely stumped lol

And remember: There is NO SHAME in locking on a wall dive trap and seeing it through to "Vega wins." People will tell you there is, but you'll notice roughly 100% of those people are the ones dying to it. Once your wall dive game is the straight dirt, paradoxally you'll find you won't need to rely on it as much.

"The threat is stronger than the execution" -Grandmaster Aron Nimzowitsch

edit: Nori your avatar is bad ass :)

Nori

09-28-2007, 12:36 PM

fatboy

09-28-2007, 01:22 PM

I thought he only had flipkicks in SSF2T and not SF2T....
With all love and respect... Why would you play this SF2T Vega over ST Vega? IMO, you lose many weapons, and gain nothing...

Jump over fireballs and do a simple 2-hit combo....

I personaly would go for the three hit: Jp.fc > cr.mk> cr.mp... It does more damage and had a higher % to dizzy. :karate:

And remember: There is NO SHAME in locking on a wall dive trap and seeing it through to "Vega wins."

I agree and support this statement 100%. :woot:

Your goal should be to get ppl knocked down, and then to start the Wall Dive Game. That is what you play Vega for, just as you would play Zangief for the Spinner. It is such a strong part of his game play :nunchuck: that you can't ignore it... But be warned... ppl will hate you for doing it :mad: ...LOL

Corner-Trap

09-28-2007, 02:40 PM

I forgot who did my avatar, but yeah it's pretty cool. Thanks

I tend to do wall dives/grabs with :hp: a lot. When are appropriate times to do the :mp: or :lp:? I tend to only do the dives/grabs after a knockdown, but after that I do the :hp: dive/grab mixup and no matter what side (especially in the corner) I get random DPed to death.

Can you be more specific on the "locking on a wall dive trap"? I don't understand what that means? Does that mean repetitive wall mixups?

1) I'd be pretty pissed if you forgot my name after I made you an AV.

2) http://www.sirlin.net/archive/my-street-fighter-tutorial-videos-from-ccc2/

Watch the second video and wait for the cross-up and pressing the advantage sections. Both show examples of how to do the wall-dive trap.

Nori

09-28-2007, 07:17 PM

1) I'd be pretty pissed if you forgot my name after I made you an AV.

2) http://www.sirlin.net/archive/my-street-fighter-tutorial-videos-from-ccc2/

Watch the second video and wait for the cross-up and pressing the advantage sections. Both show examples of how to do the wall-dive trap.He goes by GumZ. Yeah, I really like it:)

Fatboy: At my workplace, somebody bought an actual SF2T arcade machine and we play it at work, this is where I play most of my SF. I plan to play in Super Turbo tournaments once HD comes out and everybody plays. Trust me, I DEFINATELY prefer turbo vega just by the way he sounds

Razorfist

09-29-2007, 12:30 AM

polarity

11-26-2007, 05:31 PM

Can someone give me a summary of the uses of the punch wall dives?

CapMaster

11-27-2007, 12:47 PM

Can someone give me a summary of the uses of the punch wall dives?

Sometimes it can be used randomly, as a mix up after you've been wall diving all day. It happens so fast it can give your opponent that WTF? before they know what's happening.

Other then that, you can use it as a runaway move if you're trying to run out the timer.

X-Static

11-28-2007, 12:22 AM

I've seen the punch wall dives used against projectiles. He can go over a projectile when he is jumping towards the wall, so it needs to be close. I haven't seen it used much, though.

UltraDavid

11-28-2007, 11:50 AM

To beat anti-regular-wall-dive jump attacks from certain characters
To hit an opponent when you're both pretty close to the wall (because it happens so fast)
To escape a situation against some characters

But the first one is the main reason.

FreshOJ

12-14-2007, 04:02 PM

I personaly would go for the three hit: Jp.fc > cr.mk> cr.mp... It does more damage and had a higher % to dizzy. :karate:

That's definitely Vega's bread-and-butter combo...

however...

If you're fortunate enough to get REALLY close on them or they miss a DP or you even cross them up with jumping fierce or roundhouse (*VERY* hard to do, but possible), trade out the crouching forward kick for a close standing fierce. THAT will do some nice damage and dizzy for certain.

FreshOJ

12-14-2007, 04:15 PM

A good strategy, as well, for Sagat or really any other character who attempts to abuse a shoryuken-type move, is to utilize the Sky High Claw just as they begin their downward arc on the uppercut. This quickly gets them to abandon their strategy of dragon punching in perpetuity to protect against the Barcelona Attack / Izuna Drop. Best to go with the MP version, as the height of it is just right to nail them mid-drop. Once you open them up for the Wall Dives, it's open season.

??!

Wait.....when is this actually a practical strategy? Any character with a DP is going to use it when Vega is right on them. Remember that the most powerful spot on those moves is usually within the first few frames of it. So, whenever I see Vega fly up toward a wall, I wait and see what he's going to do....'cause I have the time to do so...and if he gets within range, I DP him at the last possible instance. If he decides to fly by me, I lose nothing because a projectile will chase him down.

Furthermore, the Sky High Claw does very little damage in comparison to an air-throw or, better yet, waiting until they land and doing either close standing roundhouse, crouch jab, crouch strong...close standing fierce, crouch strong...or crouch forward x2, crouch strong...any of which usually result in a dizzy opponent.

Personally, the only time I can ever find a use for the Sky High Claw is when I'm cornered and I use it either as a surprise air-to-air counter or (much more likely) cancel it from a crouch strong for an uncommon two-hit combo (make sure to stick out the claw for style points, woohoo!). Maybe someone else can enlighten me on more uses for it. *shrug*

Kuprin

12-27-2007, 09:22 PM

I agree from what I know about the Sky High Claw. It's definitely a mixup tool more than a staple of Claw's game. Even then it's not great because it rarely gains you much position, and doesn't do much damage. Still, it can mess with people's heads, and is a pretty good air to air tool.

Edit: One trick I'm finding randomly useful for screwing with people is sky high claw off of the wall behind them, usually the jab version. This will soar miles over their head; they don't have a lot of time to AA you, and is fun for just taking people off their game with a total "WTF" moment. It's also harder to AA on the way back than it looks, but I wouldn't try it against DPs because more often than not you're just going to eat one.

Gonzales

02-24-2008, 07:10 PM

i was playing againts a chun and i was doing the usual pokes if i scored a knockdown i would go for walldives. Somehow i still lost thouugfth cause she can be just as gay, she LL my normals, she can pressure me with her j.foward and cr.foward, tick the living shit out of me, and i my flipkicks lost a couple times to her head stomp.

Should i be jumping more agressively in this machtup
or should i be whoring the flipkick charge a little more and turtleling?

Ehonda

03-03-2008, 08:25 AM

CapMaster

03-03-2008, 08:50 PM

How do you see this match up. ive seen this in tournies where Claw gets raped for free, not by just any scrubs either by the elite. I'd like Apoc and Sirlin to comment on this matchup if possible. What are the advantages in this matchup?

To me, this is a win for Claw. I don't even really go for wall dives in this matchup. To me, it's kind of simple. Gief wins by getting in close. You negate this by using Vega's pokes (standing forward works good for me here) and slide to keep him out. i try to keep Gief in a little "box" a little outside of SPD/running power bomb range. Jiggle back and forth. If he lariats, slide to knock him down. If he jumps, time a slide to hit him on the way down. When you get him down, pound away at him with claw rolls, slides, and pokes until you get him into the corner and whittle him out. Just don't ever let him get close. You have the tools to make sure that doesn't happen.

nohoho

03-03-2008, 10:56 PM

Standing fierce good too if gief is looking for low kicks.

I'd like Zbigniew Brzezinski and Rachel Bilson to comment on the matchup if possible.

Both of y'all come to CF on the 29th. I'm sure Damdai would like a crack at Cap@Vega.

Ehonda

03-04-2008, 07:11 AM

umm you cannot roll against Gief while he is waking up Free SPD!!! Yikes! He can also grab you out of your pokes.

djfrijoles

03-04-2008, 10:01 AM

Every time I try to SPD a roll on wake up it's a free dizzy for Claw. Might just be me though.
Now meaty pokes on wake up I've sat right on Claws face for that

UltraDavid

03-04-2008, 11:03 AM

This is a big win for Claw. If you're Claw, use your pokes to keep Gief out at max range, especially crouching roundhouse, crouching fierce, standing forward, crouching strong, and standing roundhouse, and if Gief ever gets close to you, do a flipkick (which you should be storing whenever you stand up, always try to keep that charge). Just make sure that your poking doesn't get you a lariat in your face, you really don't want to be knocked down (although if you're poking from max distance, one lariat knockdown won't be enough for Gief to get a safejump on you). Don't bother with meaty attacks, you're better at a distance, and don't bother with wall dives, your pokes are better, although a wall dive to escape the corner is fine and an occasional punch dive is alright too.

As Gief, you shouldn't be trying to spd the roll. Some of the roll's frames are considered on the ground and some are considered off, so it's too much of a crapshoot to bother with.

djfrijoles

03-04-2008, 12:18 PM

As Gief, you shouldn't be trying to spd the roll. Some of the roll's frames are considered on the ground and some are considered off, so it's too much of a crapshoot to bother with.

Exactly!!!
Now reversal kick lariat is your best bet here but thats for a dif. thread. I learned that really fast in this matchup.

EvilSamurai

03-20-2008, 12:51 AM

May someone please break down the Claw vs Ryu match?

Ryu1999

03-20-2008, 12:23 PM

May someone please break down the Claw vs Ryu match?

Just read the 2nd post

:wink:

fatboy

03-20-2008, 01:09 PM

Just read the 2nd post

:wink:

Add

st. MP (great against fireballs: hits them in their start up and has the abilty to exchange ~ about same amount of life on traded fireball. The cr.mp either beats the fireball on start up or eats the fireball there is very little middle ground.)

st. MK (eats hurricane kicks for breakfast, great for coner pressure, shin/foot are invincible)

cr. HP (Good AA, good pressure, etc)

Remember, the Vega's claw always points away from the wall he jumped off of. He has very good priority on the end of his claw use it to your advantage as a poke (it's hit box actually extends PAST his claw)... You don't aways have to go for the grab or cross up on the wall dive.

and if you didn't get it from RYU1999's post... Wall dive all day on knock down.

EvilSamurai

03-20-2008, 01:21 PM

Thanks Ryu1999 and fatboy, especially for the standing forward beating hurricane kick bit (If only I have known this last night when I played the Dark Gaiden half of DGV). Also, is standing fierce as good as standing strong for stuffing fbs? I noticed Vega's fierce has more range and will hit crouching opponents but is slower than his strong.

fatboy

03-20-2008, 02:43 PM

Also, is standing fierce as good as standing strong for stuffing fbs?

I do not believe so. The standing fierce is more of a "mid" hit. You'll stab right into the fireball. The strong seems to ~go over~ the freball and hits "high" for a trade if it doesn't stop the fireball in its start up.

Here is a break down.

St. Fiece has:

Positives: :tup:

Does 25% more damage (15% v. 12%)

Negitives: :tdown:

50% more start up (12 frames v. 8 frames)
30% more recovery (13 frames v. 10 frames)
Same number of hitting frames (6)
Less priority
Doesn't trade well with fireballs.

So anyway, that is why I choose the standing strong!

EvilSamurai

03-20-2008, 03:03 PM

snip

Thanks

Vega

03-23-2008, 12:52 AM

I think Fatboy hit things pretty much on the head.

I realize that he's talking about a specific situation (vs. fireballs). Regardless, as I was reading there was something that immediately came to my mind just as an "in general" type of thing to remember. It is that other advantages to the fierce would be the extra reach and as you mentioned before it's more mid so it's good for connecting on a croucher where the strong would whiff high.

ToyRobotTerror

03-25-2008, 04:02 AM

A
DB, DF, DB, UF
DB, DF, DB, UB

i´m curious what i´m doing wrong since i can only get these two to work

EvilSamurai

03-27-2008, 10:02 PM

What should Vega do against DJ?

CapMaster

03-28-2008, 04:50 PM

What should Vega do against DJ?

I play this match like he's a better version of Guile. Watch out for his crouching forward, it will counter most of Vega's ground attacks. You gotta look for Max Outs you can hop over, and start going to work. For me, Dee Jay struggles a little to get out of Wall Dives, his upkick has to be perfect, or else he gets hit, or you guys will pass through each other. Try to stay outside of the range of his crouching forward, and try some carefully timed slides, crouching strong, or jab claw rolls. Pin him back. The key for me is to take away his low forward, take him out of his crouch and try to low forward any move he does game. Make him try to beat you some way else. And when he tries, you'll be ready to shut him down. Again, think like a harder Guile match.

Raisin

03-29-2008, 11:18 AM

Try to stay outside of the range of his crouching forward, and try some carefully timed slides, crouching strong, or jab claw rolls.
I agree that DeeJay's c.MK is a key move in this match, but I'm not sure I understand what you mean here. I don't see how you can simultaneously stay out of the range of it and still employ your c.MP or c.HK, because there's no range (that I'm aware of) at which you can use them in which he can't just trump you with his own c.MK. The LP roll is tricky too, as he can hit you out of that as well if you don't do it from a long distance away (although even then you only trade hits, and the Max Out becomes a real risk out there).

I'm not trying to argue that those moves can't sometimes be useful, because I know that the slide can still hit DeeJay out of his c.MK startup or recovery frames if he's just mindlessly spamming it, etc.
..........

Granted, I've only had any real experience from the DeeJay side, but I find it much tougher when they mix in standing slashes. That keeps me from playing the ground game on autopilot with c.MK stopping the usual Claw stuff (c.MP, c.HK, rolls). Claw's s.far MP is safe from the c.MK and is good at stuffing fireballs, while the s.far HP is just a dangerous move for DeeJay period.

Because I was having trouble with these 2 attacks recently (JMS, please stop hitting me, thanks), I decided to take a closer look at the interaction with DeeJay's attacks. I hope the following is as accurate as possible:

Claw's s.far MP slash...
... vs. DeeJay's c.LP -- DeeJay gets hit
... vs. DeeJay's c.MP -- DeeJay gets hit
... vs. DeeJay's c.HP -- Hit trade, slightly favors DeeJay
... vs. DeeJay's c.LK -- They both miss
... vs. DeeJay's c.MK -- They both miss
... vs. DeeJay's c.HK -- Claw gets hit (slides right under it)

Of course, the real attraction of this move is that it's good at snuffing fireballs.

Claw's s.far HP stab...
... vs. DeeJay's c.LP -- Hit trade, heavily favors Claw
... vs. DeeJay's c.MP -- Hit trade, about equal damage
... vs. DeeJay's c.HP -- Hit trade, about equal damage
... vs. DeeJay's c.LK -- DeeJay gets hit if Claw is far enough away
... vs. DeeJay's c.MK -- Close = hit trade, Medium = DeeJay gets hit, Far = both miss
... vs. DeeJay's c.HK -- Whoever attacks first wins (either can easily hit the other out of startup frames)

This move is most annoying for DeeJay. As far as I can tell, the safest option for him seems to be just for him to block it and allow the pushback, and then he can Max Out relatively safely because Claw usually isn't in range to jump over and hit him, and he can't walldive either because he stood up to stab.

I'm not saying either of those moves are instant-win for Claw or anything, because DeeJay still has options, like using c.HP to play for hit-trades against these moves or whatever. But then Claw has answers too, like just jumping if DeeJay gets c.HP-happy. The net effect is that it really mixes up the ground game against DeeJay and makes him have to work, and think, a lot harder.

CapMaster

03-30-2008, 08:41 PM

Sorry if that sounds confusing Raisin. Honestly, it kind of is hard for me to describe. Because things I do VS Dee Jay, if I type it out, it may sound like it loses in theory. You just really have to outwork him. Be the better player.

gridman

03-30-2008, 08:48 PM

cr.fierce and strong seem to dominate vegas ground game. cr.fierce especially. Jump jab works against vegas normal anti airs i think too right? I dunno, i never felt like that match was that bad for dee jay oddly enough

jms

03-30-2008, 09:56 PM

Looking at Raisin's table*, the one move that can combat both s.MP and s.HP from Claw is DeeJay's c.HP. In both cases, the c.HP will trade for favorable damage. So, if Claw wants to s.MP and s.HP, it seems that DeeJay wants to spend most of his time using c.HP.

I'm not saying either of those moves are instant-win for Claw or anything, because DeeJay still has options, like using c.HP to play for hit-trades against these moves or whatever. But then Claw has answers too, like just jumping if DeeJay gets c.HP-happy.

I'm not sure that jumping in on DeeJay is an answer to his c.HP. The move's pretty darn fast (6 frames of recovery?), and DeeJay keeps his down charge for upkicks. The move is fucking shields up for DeeJay.

So how to do: What's Claw do about DeeJay's c.HP?

---

*Claw's s.far HP stab...
... vs. DeeJay's c.HP -- Hit trade, about equal damage
This trade favors DeeJay. Claw does limp wristed damage.

... vs. DeeJay's c.HK -- Whoever attacks first wins (either can easily hit the other out of startup frames)
Possibly something to add: At a distance, this is probably a trade. Claw would not get knocked down. The greatest danger in throwing out c.HK for DeeJay is that he can get tagged during its recovery by just about anything. For that reason, I can't see anyone really trying to trade DeeJay slide for Claw s.HP, but whatever--just for the sake of silly.

Raisin

04-02-2008, 05:58 PM

Sorry if that sounds confusing Raisin. Honestly, it kind of is hard for me to describe.
Oh, don't get me wrong, I don't claim to be an expert at this match. I know you're a good player and I'm sure there are tons of things you know about this match that I don't, so I'm just trying to get some ideas here. :tup:

I'm not sure that jumping in on DeeJay is an answer to his c.HP. The move's pretty darn fast (6 frames of recovery?), and DeeJay keeps his down charge for upkicks. The move is fucking shields up for DeeJay.
I don't see it as so much an issue of the recovery time; after all, DeeJay's c.MK has 6 frames of recovery too, and he can spam that and still recover in time to do upkicks if Claw jumped. Thing is, c.HP has a whole bunch (12) of hitting frames, which is usually good, but in the case that Claw jumps, I feel "frozen" because I'm stuck doing that move for a long time, plus it brings your hitboxes up.

That said, I just looked again, and DeeJay can still recover in time to do upkicks unless he did it way after Claw jumped, so I think you may be right about jumping not being a good response to c.HP.

[Claw's s.far HP vs. DeeJay's c.HP] trade favors DeeJay. Claw does limp wristed damage.
True, I noticed that, but it's so close that I just called it "about even" on damage, since DeeJay does an average of literally 2 more pixels. So damage-wise, I dunno if it helps him so much, unless he's way ahead in health and looking to trade. Positionally-speaking, it might be a different story, because it pushes them apart.

What's Claw do about DeeJay's c.HP?
Claw's c.MP can hit it during the 5 startup frames, or beat it cleanly in the 1st 3 hitting frames, which also bring DeeJay's hitboxes vulnerably forward. So everything seems to come full-circle.

ToyRobotTerror

04-08-2008, 01:14 PM

What to do against fei?

judge_rl

04-18-2008, 11:04 PM

Any pro Vegas (Balrogs) to watch?

shortpitched713

04-19-2008, 01:45 AM

Any pro Vegas (Balrogs) to watch?

ARG. Tons of his videos on youtube.

EvilSamurai

05-07-2008, 03:50 PM

What does Vega do against O. Ken? All of my stuff ends up getting jab dped.

ramza

05-08-2008, 11:50 AM

What does Vega do against O. Ken? All of my stuff ends up getting jab dped.

being the most basic shoto, with almost no tricks this should be an easy win for Vega imo. if you ever get a life lead, force him to come to you. neutral jump fireballs(or just block if you can afford to), keep charge. if you ever knock him down simply waiting will get you a reward most of the time since most of them are trigger happy. also old characters can't tech throws right(i dunno). punish predictable dps with throws, or cr fierce. even if you are down on life, you can push him to the corner once you get into poke range. all he has is random dps, you should be able to beat him most of the time. if you're getting random dp'd all the time, you're pressing too many buttons(probably cr strong). don't be predictable, and win for free:D

Battosai

05-08-2008, 12:47 PM

being the most basic shoto, with almost no tricks this should be an easy win for Vega imo. if you ever get a life lead, force him to come to you. neutral jump fireballs(or just block if you can afford to), keep charge. if you ever knock him down simply waiting will get you a reward most of the time since most of them are trigger happy. also old characters can't tech throws right(i dunno). punish predictable dps with throws, or cr fierce. even if you are down on life, you can push him to the corner once you get into poke range. all he has is random dps, you should be able to beat him most of the time. if you're getting random dp'd all the time, you're pressing too many buttons(probably cr strong). don't be predictable, and win for free:D

Dont listen to this guy, people say he eats dick for a living.

ramza

05-08-2008, 01:09 PM

good shit, i'm glad i affected you this much:tup: at least buy premium while you're at it, neg me or something:rofl:

Battosai

05-08-2008, 01:19 PM

why so I can be a premium fruit booter like you, no thanx:tup:

ramza

05-08-2008, 01:42 PM

i can't afford premium

i see...

Gonzales

05-08-2008, 05:25 PM

i was wondering about the Chun macthup it seems like even macthup but i 've been told that Claw holds a lsigth advantege. Is it because Chun can't anti-air him effectivly or is it that she can't get out of wall dives?

EvilSamurai

05-09-2008, 09:20 PM

Thanks Ramza for the info. I guess I was mashing c. strong too much. It's every Vega player's second favorite move.

Mokura

06-04-2008, 09:17 AM

I still don't know why more players don't just pin themselves in the corner when they fight this guy..oh yeah, I forgot; they don't think.

jms

06-04-2008, 04:10 PM

I still don't know why more players don't just pin themselves in the corner when they fight this guy..oh yeah, I forgot; they don't think.

That's it--problem solved! Close the thread and move out, men. Nothing more to see here.

Kyokuji

06-04-2008, 06:47 PM

Unless you're Honda, that's not a good idea. You're essentially putting a sign out for the opponent, saying "pressure me".

Sleepy Zero

06-05-2008, 12:05 PM

This is going to sound really stupid but I can not do Claw's wall dive to save my freakin life. It just doesn't come out, every where I got it says charge d then u+K I do it like you should do with Guile's flash kick like every other charge move and it doesn't come out. The one where he jumps off the all flies at the opponent and stabs them with is Claw works but this doesn't. The only time I can get him to jump off the wall is when I have the super guage full by doing charge d/b f u/b+k. I'm freakin confused, this shouldn't be hard. Is my version of SF busted or something? Is there some trick? WTF?!

Kajoq

06-05-2008, 12:09 PM

UltraDavid

06-05-2008, 12:15 PM

Unless you're Honda
I'm not convinced even that is a great idea against top level Claws.

Sleepy Zero

06-05-2008, 12:27 PM

Sleepy, Are you playing on Anniversary Collection? The US version of it is bugged. The motion for the ST version of claw on AE is actually D-K-U. If you swap to the other versions of claw it should work fine

Well that would explain it. It's freakin bugged?! That explains a lot. Is there any place where I can get a good version of ST then?

Kyokuji

06-06-2008, 01:47 AM

I'm not convinced even that is a great idea against top level Claws.
Probably not, but he's the only character I can think of where that would even remotely be a good idea.

shortpitched713

06-09-2008, 03:28 PM

I'm not convinced even that is a great idea against top level Claws.

What is even a top level Claw going to do against a cornered and charged Honda? :shake:

M.S.G.

06-12-2008, 11:24 AM

which of claws jumping attacks is the best to use, and have good priority?

and im trying to learn how to play claw "the right way" but not sure which style is better to use:

Noguchi "wall dive crossup all day" or ARG "good use of normals and the corner trap from hell"?

I personally like using wall dives becaues they are ridiculously good unlike in CvS2. But how often should i be using them?

Ganelon

06-13-2008, 02:32 AM

j.HP & j.HK: air-to-ground
j.MP: air-to-air
ju.HP: anti-air
ju.LK: tick

As for styles, take your pick. As you've seen, both styles work well at the top level. But note that there are some characters against whom Noguchi refrains from wall diving and some against whom ARG will constantly wall dive when a tournament is on the line (all with good cause). If you want to play a complete claw, you'll need to learn both styles, even if you plan on wall diving most of the time.

You'll also need to take into account how willing you are to accept player reprehension. Even though everyone knows about Playing to Win, there are still players who will begrudge you for wall diving to a win. When ARG doesn't wall dive after a knockdown against non-Blankas, it's pretty apparent that he's trading his own advantage for the sake of honor. It's up to you whether you want to play nice or play to win.

Duck Strong

06-17-2008, 06:25 PM

What is even a top level Claw going to do against a cornered and charged Honda? :shake:

The words top-level and Claw just don't sound right together.

Chrisis

06-17-2008, 06:39 PM

Is ARG non existent?

Mokura

06-23-2008, 08:27 AM

Unless you're Honda, that's not a good idea. You're essentially putting a sign out for the opponent, saying "pressure me".

Have you ever seen a match where Claw's opponent doesn't get "pressured"? The way people play, it's gonna happen regardless. By cornering yourself you've at least got a better chance of escaping that cross-up dive bs.

jms

06-23-2008, 04:17 PM

Have you ever seen a match where Claw's opponent doesn't get "pressured"? The way people play, it's gonna happen regardless. By cornering yourself you've at least got a better chance of escaping that cross-up dive bs.

Do not give away that which has not already been taken from you. Your best defense is offense. Try attacking Claw.

Akutabi Gamma

06-24-2008, 09:34 PM

Damn last night I had a 2df session where I used Claw and I'm really getting the hang of him1 I play using keyboard tho, but am slowly upping my game. I managed to do his super 4-6 times in that session! Why this move is easier than Guile's is beyond me.
I'll go check the wiki soon for some anti-Ryu/Shoto stuff.
Just curious what are Claw's cancelable normals?

Akutabi Gamma

07-05-2008, 05:41 AM

Why isn't the Balrog player here use the Wall Jump?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=p2wgnwfRU40

Duck Strong

07-06-2008, 01:42 PM

Because these guys aren't lazy tossers like most american players.

UltraDavid

07-06-2008, 02:04 PM

BrentoBox

07-09-2008, 08:31 PM

Nah, ARG is famous for playing straight up hyou-Bal in ST, wall dives constantly. My guess for why he's not doing it in this match is that there's something different about Super Claw's wall dive or the way Super Zangief handles wall dives. Even in ST Claw can't really play wall dive games against Gief in the way he plays them against lots of other characters, wall dive usage is confined more to the just-barely-hitting kind. Maybe Super Claw's wall dive hitbox isn't as effective for that.

Edit: Yeah, you can see in the 2nd round that Claw's wall dive has some weird turn-the-guy-around-and-suck-him-in quality to it. Seems pretty dangerous, especially cause he gets punished for it at the end.

I play a lot of Zangief players here in Seattle. A lot of guys here are dedicated to being good with him, and they do pretty well.

I noticed that if I wall dive, and hug the wall for just a second then go forward, the claw hits just on Zangiefs head, which is where he is vulnerable.

It doesn't always hit perfectly, and mostly trades (which is fine, because I think he takes more damage) but you will just plain beat him out sometimes.

BrentoBox

07-09-2008, 08:45 PM

Why isn't the Balrog player here use the Wall Jump?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=p2wgnwfRU40

Because these guys aren't lazy tossers like most american players.

To beat Zangief, you hardly have to move at all. Wall dives will get you killed.

Zangief cannot do a thing to get in on Claw. All he can do is play footsies and spam Lariets to hope to get a knockdown. Once he gets that knockdown, you are in serious trouble. If you spam walls dives, will get beaten out most of the time by wake-up reversal lariats.

The Claw vs Geif match is a tense but simple. Slide when he lariats, standing roundhouse whenever he jumps (you will always connect, and usually beat him clean) and don't spam crouching strong because lariat will knock you down. Be careful with your pokes and use Fierce because it has a lot of range.

The players in Seattel still beat me a lot of the time though. :wgrin:

Akutabi Gamma

07-10-2008, 01:07 AM

thx for the feedback guys, and for the 101 of dealing with Gief :tup:

Sleepy Zero

07-16-2008, 02:05 AM

Does anyone have any tips on what to do against Boxer? I seem to have a really hard time against him.

Khiempossible

07-17-2008, 12:22 AM

low strong

EvilSamurai

07-18-2008, 10:34 AM

low strong

Vega's low strong loses to Balrog's low strong. Balrog is one of Vega's worst matchups.

Khiempossible

07-20-2008, 09:29 AM

yeah but it beats all his rush punches.

Vega

07-20-2008, 08:43 PM

I'm not saying my strategy is the one correct way of doing things but what works good for me is to stay back far and without getting into an easily identifiable rhythm I like to throw out lots of standing strongs, standing fierces, and crouching roundhouses.

I am staying far away so that he has to either use rush punches to get in or he will try walking in. Of course you can't block at the same time as rush punching or walking forward, and like I said I try to be a little random on the timing of these. At the same time in the back of my mind I'm concerned about low blocking in case a low rush punch slips through the timing of my pokes.

This strategy seems to be a good starting point and the focal point of my attack that eats up a good portion of his health. That's probably like 1/3 or 1/2 of my strategy for that matchup. A very big chunk.

Ganelon

07-21-2008, 03:03 AM

I do the same zoning that immortal described, except with a lot more of everybody's favorite wall dives. I always want to keep my distance from boxer and above all, stay away from the corners. I do wall dives when boxer is waking up, to run out time, and at random other intervals (free c.HP when boxer reversals into corners).

Boxer's super is a non-issue in this match as long as you exercise caution when he has it. You just have to be very careful of the throw loop, and staying away is the best way to avoid the situation.

Apoc

07-31-2008, 04:27 PM

Rep Vega to the fullest at Evo bros!!!;)

zass

08-01-2008, 12:20 PM

Ganelon and I played a good set of games on GGPO of Boxer vs Claw. Here's my take (Ganelon, please feel free to chime in here).

Boxer wants to stay on the ground, always charged in down back mode. You must be ready for fierce headbutt any wall dive, or do a kick rush at him. This is your #1 priority, because if you let him knock you down you can expect to lose 50% life on ambigious wall dives.

So you're sitting in crouch, now what? Here low mk is your friend. It hits many of Claw's moves. A smart claw will try to poke out of range with standing mp, and here there's a 50/50 game of mostly blocking and occasionally rushing. You lost most of the guessing games numerically, but this is countered by the fact that if you can hit with a rush, you can do a safe jump with jumping mk, leading to 50% or so damage from tick setups.

I think the fight is about 50-50, perhaps with Boxer advantage if you really have your safe jump timing down.