Ryu thread (how to not defeat sheng long)

[Myfacehurts24]

Can someone break this match down to me? In favor of RYU?

[A_Wolfe]

Ryu has a faster fireball and a superfireball that work well against Ken. You should use your fireball game to keep Ken out and bait him into jumping at you. It's probably not a good idea to play a ground game (trading low attacks) against Ken, since he is fast and has a standing roundhouse that out ranges you.

[jaminbenjamin]

Most Ken players are aggressive and willing to take some risks to get a big damage output somewhere along the way (cross-up or crouching short into super). Ryu can play mostly conservative and punish each time Ken takes a chance. It's inportant not to get predictable, as your limbs will be dp'd, nor should you freeze up, as you will start getting ticked too death. Any offensive shenanigans should probably be in the form of Ryu's rushing fierce punch followed by sweep/throw/super; otherwise stick to Ryu's boring fb trap game and win most of the time.

There was a great set of videos with Daigo/Aniken playing about 12 Ken/Ryu matches out there somewhere, but I couldn't seem to find the link. If anyone finds it, it would be a good post for this thread.

[Myfacehurts24]

So, any good general strats? Or even better, specific match ups? What would be a good strat against T.Hawk?

[NKI]

Daigo vs. Ani-Ken:

http://members2.jcom.home.ne.jp/monmon999/gachiasadakai1.html

P.S.: Merged "RYU vs KEN" thread with the Ryu thread. No reason for them to be separate.

[Se7in]

So, any good general strats? Or even better, specific match ups? What would be a good strat against T.Hawk?

Good question. I'd also like to know a good strat against Hawk.

[Myfacehurts24]

I guess no one on SRK plays Ryu. :sad:

[Digitalbooty]

any strats on Chun?

[jaminbenjamin]

Well, let's face it; Ryu uses basically the same strategy for almost every character, unless it is generally unsafe to throw fireballs (Gief, Claw, Sim, Sagat, etc). In those cases, he is forced to play footsies, air hurricane shennigans, charge super and bait/tick, or whatever else you think will help you win those tough matchups.

T Hawk is an easier matchup compared to Zangief imo. Since Hawk doesn't have the lariat, he takes a little more fireball abuse, usually forcing him to jump in/dive with guesses. A solid Ryu who throws fb's when it's safe and baits jump in's will do well. Also, Hawk's ground moves are quite pathetic compared to Gief, so footsie games also seem to be in Ryu's favor. Is there some secret tactic against Hawk? I doubt it. Fight it mostly like you would fight Gief and you should be in great shape.

Chun's fight revolves around her super mostly, since her biggest weakness is your ability to fireball her a lot. When she does NOT have super, you are free to throw fireballs to your heart's content, as long as you aren't stupidly obvious. Your major concern is to get her into a corner and keep her there as long as possible, which usually results in the loss of a lot of her life. When she has her super, you must suddenly be extremely careful with your fb's, as she can super through any of them and cause 50%+ damage if she gets through one. It's normally in your best interest to try to bait her into using her super so that you can go back to abusing her with fireballs; this is usually best accomplished with hurricane kicks, whether they are in the air or standing on the ground. Jumping back (especially in the corner) and jumping into Chun (when it's not a cross-up) while she has super is a death wish, so don't get stupid with your super baits. The other problem you have to deal with, besides her super, is her rush-down game, which usually involves a meaty low attack or roundhouse flip kick followed by standing strongs or whatever else she wants to do to keep you in block stun. If you start dp'ing to get out of this sequence (which is lazy on your part), she'll wise up and punish you severely. Your best options out of her rush are counter throw/soften throw, hurricane kick (since it gets you off the ground and is at least invulnerable for a few frames) or else crouching forward into fireball. It's usually Chun who decides (by which moves she uses) what is your best course of action against her rushdown, so learn exactly when you will be out of block-stun and choose your best option depending on how far away she is from you.

[Se7in]

Well, let's face it; Ryu uses basically the same strategy for almost every character, unless it is generally unsafe to throw fireballs (Gief, Claw, Sim, Sagat, etc). In those cases, he is forced to play footsies, air hurricane shennigans, charge super and bait/tick, or whatever else you think will help you win those tough matchups.

T Hawk is an easier matchup compared to Zangief imo. Since Hawk doesn't have the lariat, he takes a little more fireball abuse, usually forcing him to jump in/dive with guesses. A solid Ryu who throws fb's when it's safe and baits jump in's will do well. Also, Hawk's ground moves are quite pathetic compared to Gief, so footsie games also seem to be in Ryu's favor. Is there some secret tactic against Hawk? I doubt it. Fight it mostly like you would fight Gief and you should be in great shape.

Chun's fight revolves around her super mostly, since her biggest weakness is your ability to fireball her a lot. When she does NOT have super, you are free to throw fireballs to your heart's content, as long as you aren't stupidly obvious. Your major concern is to get her into a corner and keep her there as long as possible, which usually results in the loss of a lot of her life. When she has her super, you must suddenly be extremely careful with your fb's, as she can super through any of them and cause 50%+ damage if she gets through one. It's normally in your best interest to try to bait her into using her super so that you can go back to abusing her with fireballs; this is usually best accomplished with hurricane kicks, whether they are in the air or standing on the ground. Jumping back (especially in the corner) and jumping into Chun (when it's not a cross-up) while she has super is a death wish, so don't get stupid with your super baits. The other problem you have to deal with, besides her super, is her rush-down game, which usually involves a meaty low attack or roundhouse flip kick followed by standing strongs or whatever else she wants to do to keep you in block stun. If you start dp'ing to get out of this sequence (which is lazy on your part), she'll wise up and punish you severely. Your best options out of her rush are counter throw/soften throw, hurricane kick (since it gets you off the ground and is at least invulnerable for a few frames) or else crouching forward into fireball. It's usually Chun who decides (by which moves she uses) what is your best course of action against her rushdown, so learn exactly when you will be out of block-stun and choose your best option depending on how far away she is from you.

Thanks. Another question:

What's are some good pokes against Hawk, this kid I play at the arcade must be fking pyschic because he dives a split-second before I throw my fb and I eat it whenever I try.

[Myfacehurts24]

cool, thanks. Good info.

[jchensor]

You have to be careful against T.hawk, however, if you throw Fireballs too close to T.Hawk. He can easily DP + Jab and go through the fireball and nail you in the face. So it actually is very similar to Zangief in that you can't Fireball as much when close-up. However, baiting his DP allows you to punish it eaiser than Zangief's.

T.Hawk is actually not a gimme for Ryu. Good T.Hawks can eat up Ryu's pretty badly mostly because the fireball isn't as effective against T.Hawk as it is against many other characters.

- James
http://jchensor.blogspot.com

[jaminbenjamin]

Ryu has 2 basic fireball strategies: fb from basically anywhere on the screen or fb only very close or very far from the opponent. Mysteriously enough, fights that are easy for Ryu fall into the first category, while his tougher matches force him to use #2.

T Hawk has 2 fireball counters: his dp and his air dive. For his dp to work, he has to be relatively close and must anticipate quite a bit. This means you should be faking or doing crouching forward into fireball whenever T Hawk is half of a screen away or closer. If the T Hawk can do a walk-up 360, then you are under more pressure to commit to a move sooner, but it's pretty rare to fight someone who can do that consistently; so bust out your crouching forward and your close-fb game. If you are getting hit by T Hawk's air dive consistently, then you are most likely fb'ing too much or at the wrong times. A meaty fb when he's getting up is a good idea, but then start putting in your pauses and fakes to force him to take some risks. Most importantly is to stand in the right place. Similar to Gief, you won't find it extremely easy to keep T Hawk in the corner; most of this fight is about spacing. If you continually throw fb's from the same spot, you are giving your opponent an advantage; keep it your's by changing the timing or the spacing.

Yes, T Hawk is no walk in the park, and I am always secretly scared of being beated by this giant Mexican monster (please not the pink one), but Ryu has a LOT of control in this fight, at least until Hawk gets in close enough to 360; but you only have to get out once and you go back to having control of the fight.

[SNK Guitarist]

Some Ryu things to ask:

When is the best time to use his :r: :hp: ? I use it mostly as an advancing maneuver to move across the screen quickly. However, I also sometimes will use it meaty on a character because it seems like that's the only time I can get it to connect with the 2 hits. If I try it too close I'll usually get a throw. I love the move because of it's frame advantage but in order for it to hit you have to be so close, and you're open to reversals.

So what are some good applications for this move, if any?

[Se7in]

You have to be careful against T.hawk, however, if you throw Fireballs too close to T.Hawk. He can easily DP + Jab and go through the fireball and nail you in the face. So it actually is very similar to Zangief in that you can't Fireball as much when close-up. However, baiting his DP allows you to punish it eaiser than Zangief's.

T.Hawk is actually not a gimme for Ryu. Good T.Hawks can eat up Ryu's pretty badly mostly because the fireball isn't as effective against T.Hawk as it is against many other characters.

- James
http://jchensor.blogspot.com


Ryu has 2 basic fireball strategies: fb from basically anywhere on the screen or fb only very close or very far from the opponent. Mysteriously enough, fights that are easy for Ryu fall into the first category, while his tougher matches force him to use #2.

T Hawk has 2 fireball counters: his dp and his air dive. For his dp to work, he has to be relatively close and must anticipate quite a bit. This means you should be faking or doing crouching forward into fireball whenever T Hawk is half of a screen away or closer. If the T Hawk can do a walk-up 360, then you are under more pressure to commit to a move sooner, but it's pretty rare to fight someone who can do that consistently; so bust out your crouching forward and your close-fb game. If you are getting hit by T Hawk's air dive consistently, then you are most likely fb'ing too much or at the wrong times. A meaty fb when he's getting up is a good idea, but then start putting in your pauses and fakes to force him to take some risks. Most importantly is to stand in the right place. Similar to Gief, you won't find it extremely easy to keep T Hawk in the corner; most of this fight is about spacing. If you continually throw fb's from the same spot, you are giving your opponent an advantage; keep it your's by changing the timing or the spacing.

Yes, T Hawk is no walk in the park, and I am always secretly scared of being beated by this giant Mexican monster (please not the pink one), but Ryu has a LOT of control in this fight, at least until Hawk gets in close enough to 360; but you only have to get out once and you go back to having control of the fight.

Good looks. Appreciate it.

[jchensor]

Some Ryu things to ask:

When is the best time to use his :r: :hp: ? I use it mostly as an advancing maneuver to move across the screen quickly. However, I also sometimes will use it meaty on a character because it seems like that's the only time I can get it to connect with the 2 hits. If I try it too close I'll usually get a throw. I love the move because of it's frame advantage but in order for it to hit you have to be so close, and you're open to reversals.

So what are some good applications for this move, if any?

Very few people I know actually use it to hit the opponents. It's a great move for positioning and surprise attacks. Let's say there is a distance N in which N is the horizontal length of your opponent's Jump. So if you are at distance N from your opponent, you are at optimal anti-air DP range.

Let's say you have the opponent knocked down and you are standing at distance N away from the grounded opponent. If you throw a Meaty Fireball, you will recover from your Fireball delay as the opponent gets up and is still in Block Stun. But the Fireball has pushed your opponent away from distance N, so you are no longer in optimal Anti-Air DP range. So while the opponent is still in Block Stun, you want to get back to N and throw another Fireball. Best way? Towards + Fierce. Meaty Jab Fireball, Towards + Fierce, Fireball. Opponent can't really do anything about that and, if they try jumping over the second Fireball, you are in perfect distance to DP them.

Another example? When you throw a Jab Meaty Fireball at an opponent getting up in the corner with you half a screen away. After they get up and block, you can go for mind games by doing Towards + Fierce while they are in Block Stun and end up right next to them. From here, you can Throw them or do a Crouch Roundhouse as they stand up to try and stop your Throw.

And so on and so forth. It's definitely something that shouldn't be abused, but think of it as a way to make Ryu dash quickly. You can use it in some situations where you intend to hit (after Cross-ups, though you can be countered before it connects) or after doing a point blank Super Fireball the opponent blocks, but for the most part, it's used as a Dash.

- James
http://jchensor.blogspot.com

[jaminbenjamin]

As James said, besides just moving a short distance forward faster than you would walk, it's mostly used for Ryu's pressure mind game.

After the rushing fierce, you have 3 basic options: throw, sweep/dp, or super. Abusing your opponent with this tactic is not easy, however, as he is not in block stun; so this is less of a "do the perfect end-of-block-stun timing" trick and more of an all out "force your opponent to guess and out-guess him" trick. Needless to say, you'll see players like Daigo use it very often, while almost everyone else who doesn't have a very strong in-your-face Ryu will not use it at all.

If you want the nutshell version: try doing rush-throw once, then do rush-very slight pause-super next.

[Digitalbooty]

What about Ryu vs Chun???? This is a TOUGH match imo.

[Shag]

Thanks. Another question:

What's are some good pokes against Hawk, this kid I play at the arcade must be fking pyschic because he dives a split-second before I throw my fb and I eat it whenever I try.

I wonder who this T.Hawk player is? Do you play at CF? :wonder:

[Duck Strong]

Whenever doing a far low kick into fireball against hawk, it's most often better to use a jab fireball. Hawk can easily soar through a fierce fireball with a DP, but a slow jab fireball will often catch him in the ass during the DP.

Also, you can try using short hurricane to get out of his ticks. You can still get hit, but some find it easier than a jab DP and you might catch him by surprise if he's trying to bait the DP (or using negative edge). Go CE Ryu. Never use higher strength hurricane though, as, like Zangief, he can easily hit them with crouching punches.

[jaminbenjamin]

Ok let's talk about dp vs hk as a reversal out of ticks:

Advantages to hk:

-the motion is simpler
-you are in the air longer than a dp, forcing your opponent to use a non-throw counter
-getting hit while doing a hk sometimes allows you to escape the corner, but only if the attacker fails to react and punish you in time

Disadvantages to hk:

-if opponent is doing anything besides walking forward into you, they can hit you basically for free and usually put you back right where you started
-it has much shorter invulnerability than a dp
-hitboxes on hk switch sides making it a shitty attack
-opponent can usually block and throw you for free (though there is debate whether this is 50/50, need someone to do some frame testing here)

It's fairly obvious that using hk as a reversal out of ticks is almost always a worse choice when compared to counter throw/dp, even if you saw some video of some guy using it and actually winning. Its advantages only outweigh the disadvantages when a certain character (like Chun) doesn't have a great counter; but even in these fights, it can not be used consistently as a good tactic to get out of ticks. It might be worth it to use it just to mix things up slight in an attempt to confuse your opponent, but a better option is almost always present.

As far as the footsies and fb's against Hawk, yes you have to be careful when you buffer a fb after a blocked sweep against Hawk, and I would agree that sometimes slow fb's are better at stopping him from dp'ing through the fb; but you have to mix up fast fb's as well, or else he will start to jump and dive after blocking a low attack and hit you that way instead. You should usually stick to using only ground attacks or fb's, rarely buffering them just to mix things up.

Low attack into fb is one of Ryu's best tools to push a character towards a corner, and cornering an opponent is one of Ryu's best winning tactics. Having opponents like Hawk and Gief in the corner gives you almost no advantage compared to out in the middle of the screen; being in the corner can give a medicore player the false sense that you will throw more fb's to keep them there, usually encouraging them to jump or lariat, but discussing non-optimal tactics that are effective against scrubs is probably a bad way to go, so I'll stop.

[Digitalbooty]

You're saying it's better to hk for chun?

[jaminbenjamin]

No, I'm saying that hk is only useful against a small number of characters, Chun being one of them. When she is rushing you down, you can get out almost for free with a reversal hk. If she tries anything besides block, she will get hit, and if you use different levels of hk, you can add a guessing game into her block-then-throw counter.

Ryu's air hk is also mostly a piece of shit, except against some really tall characters (like Boxer and Sagat), where you can do a meaty cross-up and get some random free hits like Claw's off-the-wall shenanigens. Anyone know how to spell that correctly?

NKI, how about a frame test as to who gets the throw after someone like Chun blocks a Ryu/Ken hk and then throws when he lands. I wonder if it's the same as Ken doing a dp as soon as he lands from his, which seems sooner than Ryu but maybe the block stuns are just different... Anything special about these moves or is it just a one frame advantage like most people would guess?

[thekingofallblacks]

I have a hard time comboing supers like ryu's is there an easier way to do them at all so they combo in. I just can't combo in QCFx2 supers constiantly

PLEASE HELP

[BoggleMinds]

I have a hard time comboing supers like ryu's is there an easier way to do them at all so they combo in. I just can't combo in QCFx2 supers constiantly

PLEASE HELP

The low forward into super is the easiest one to learn, in fact it's hella easy and consistent if you practice just a little. Just do the qcfx2 motion first and when you're at down or down+forward on the second qcf press mk, then finally fierce. You can also use this method to combo into super from (blocked) low roundhouse, or standing forward, standing fierce etc.

[reneshred18]

SSFT Ryu VS. CE Guile, strategies, anyone??

[jaminbenjamin]

Super combo answer: If you want to do flying fierce, low forward, super, then try this: when you jump at your opponent, do a fb motion ending with a fierce to hit them in the air (obviously this will only do a fierce punch and not a fb, but you will have half of your super motion stored at least), then when you land do low forward into fb as normal, but the super will come out instead of a normal fb.



Guile, whether he is CE or not, is not a walk in the park for Ryu, and your fighting strategy won't change much at all whatever version of Guile you are fighting.

Here's what Guile wants to do to you: sucker you into jumping in so he can flashkick you, stop your fb with a sonic boom and then backfist you, and jump in with ambiguous crossup.

Your strategy should probably involve not playing into his.

Obviously, you need to learn how to block the crossup short, or he will eat you up all day with it, but many decent Guile's never learn this game so you might be safe from it for a while.

Of course you should rarely jump into Guile. Don't get the false sense of security that you can jump over a sonic boom for free; Guile has a huge arsenal of counters that don't involve his flashkick and usually involve you getting hit for free or at least getting a nice trade. If you jump at all, do a safe jump in (so that you land while he is invulnerable but doesn't have hit boxes out there yet); this a something you see top level Ryu's doing against Guile, so don't feel like you can never jump in this fight.

As for the fb'ing, you have to be very careful, as any obvious fb's will result in a backfist to your face. Ryu has a great counter to this with his hurricane kick; just like Guile can counter your fb with a sonic boom then backfist, you can counter his sonic boom with a hurricane kick (but only if you are close to him). So, one way to really make Guile feel hesitant about throwing sonic booms during the fight (which is what usually beats up Ryu), you want to get up in his face and dance around, trying to get him to throw the boom; then just hurricane kick on reaction and you will very often hit him for free (which results in a knock down and a wake-up game advantage to you next). Once Guile has second thoughts about throwing his booms, you are free to fireball more often, which usually pushes him back into a corner and spells more disadvantages to Guile.

I felt like I should add this small note: don't be afraid to just block sonic booms. Getting fancy with jumping straight up over his booms will usually end up with him kicking your ass in the air or when you land. Also, you can do a short hurricane kick or jab dragon punch (if you don't suck) through the sonic boom if he does it from far away. This buys you a small time advantage where Guile cannot throw another boom until the one you just went through leaves the screen. If you have having problems with DJ as well, this little trick can sometimes cause your opponent a lot of grief as you can reposition yourself to a much better distance without him being able to do much about it at all.

On the whole, you can't fight Guile as if you were Sagat, throwing nonstop fb's and uppercutting his jumpin's. Get out your game of fakes and footsies, and abuse your hurricane kick against one of the few characters in the game that it actually works against...

[reneshred18]

Thank you very much for taking the time to reply to this, it was so detailed and clear, Eventhough my buddy kept naliing me with his footsies after jumping a sonic boom I just kept doing it triying to find one that I could beat with my Ryu. I will change my strategy from now on considering all these points. Thanks.

[reneshred18]

http://66.90.101.52/Tutorials/ST/TZW%20%20chapter%201-ryu-downloaded%20at%20combovideos.com.wmv

Hey guys, are these combos real?? how do you cancel into a super fireball from almost any hit?? I am so confused........

[tolkien]

why do people whiff c.sk before doing an fb

[CapMaster]

why do people whiff c.sk before doing an fb

If they're standing, it serves as a fake out..Or to keep them in place by having them go into the block stance for that one second the short is out.

[donenode]

can any one help me with ducking shortx2 super fb with ryu