!WANTED! - Pause Toggle Box for EVO

[omni]

So I was thinking...having matches being paused is god damn embarassing at Evo. It's a console tournament and you think we would have some sort of solution since we know it is something that could happen.

So could someone come up with a solution where we can have almost a pass through box where we plug into the PS2 then the players plug their joysticks into this passthrough box. Then we have some sort of on/off toggle to allow Start.

Anyone willing to give it a try? Or anyone have a better solution?

Derek Daniels
http://lowfierce.blogspot.com

[final_cut]

Is this still a big problem? I didn't hear about this happening at evo this year, but I didn't get to go. Most of us here just make our sticks with the start button way out of the way.

[omni]

It's always a big problem. This year there were 2 big instances that I can recall: Nuki vs. Nitto and Sanford vs. Duc's money match. I forget who ever paused in the Sanford/Duc match but the resolution was that Sanford's Storm would let Duc's spiral fall from the air combo and let the match resume. Problem was Sanford already buffered into the super so when the game was unpaused out came super - people thought Sanford did super and he was just shouting - I didn't press anything!!

I understand that joytsicks are now getting made where Pause is in a spot not conducive to being accidently pressed but I think there has to be a better solution so that people can use any joystick regardless of where Start is located.

Derek Daniels
http://lowfierce.blogspot.com

[poon]

imho, this is impossible. You'd need an adapter programmed to read for whatever signal translates to a start press and then have this device deny it passage to the DC. There's programming and there's custom electronics right there. I would imagine whatever device does this would cause lag too as it relays other signals to the DC while listening for start presses. Seeing as how adapters so far are only offered commercially, i doubt any old joe outside of MIT could whip up enough for evo. You'd be better off making custom project boxes for everyone's individual controllers that didn't have a start button wired (another timely electronics job). Unfortunately there isn't just a single prong on the DC connecter you can snip.

Programmers/electricians, am I wrong? :)

[aktham]

I suggest people use a switch that activates/deactivates the start button. It could be put to the side of the stick.

Most times start button is used to get into the game or to continue anyway.

[final_cut]

I didn't realize. I'm working on my first console tourney now, I'll be sure to put in a rule about it. the thing is, I'd think that kind of tech would have to be in the stick, right?

[Nick T.]

Just put a microswitch in series with the wire that supplies power to the start button.

[FMJaguar]

- The posters are right in that you can't just disconnect a pin and gid rid of start, the solution would have to actually interpret the signal and block the start signals.

This solution IMO could be done without lag, once you can convert the ps2 signals to DC without lag, there's no reason you can't block start without lag. However i don't think that will solve the problem.

If someone can verify this i'd appreciate it, but i think the game auto-pauses if it stops recognizing the controller, and if it happens too fast you just see the pause screen instead of the "controller is unplugged" message. Because of 1) the DC's suspect design combined with 2) everyone using cheap convertors and 360 sticks, i think that happens more often than actually pressing start.

If that is true, then just intercepting start wouldn't work, you would actually need to 1) figure out what the DC does to determine if the controller is connected, and 2) add a device to always make sure that signal is present.

[Mikei]

Asking people to put an on/off switch on the start button is a little much. That raises all sorts of problems for those who just buy sticks and dont matience them. And would be kinda of a hassle on non-custom sticks.

Only thing I can think of is a Varible Node Resistor that would control the gamepads internal clock to skip over the set instance of the start button being pressed. And then that would have all sorts of varibles from Pad to Pad. And that would just be costly and time comsuming finding the right instance for every pad.

I guess it's plauseable with enough research/development/testing. You would just have to find some dedicated heads with enough time/money/knowledge to invest into the project.

[Overworld]

Maybe recess the start button more into the body, then you'd have to push in to be able to hit it, it would make it much harder to hit by accident. That is for models where the start was stuck somewhere else, like the side of the box.

[chippermonky]

Making a device that reads the ps2/DC input and simply filters out any start signals would not be hard. I believe for the PS2, the information is weakly encoded much like the keyboard signal and you could probably even do it with an IC assuming what I said was true. Lag should be no worse than a converter if done properly.

BUt with all that considered, this may not be entirely practical as it is expensive to get these made since each unit would need to be made by hand (unless you plan on ordering a couple hundred of these).... I'd expect at least 200 in cost for programming the thing and then another 50 for each to get it packaged so that you can easily plug in the controller into it. I'm not sure if there are companies who will take such requests, though it'd be possible to find an individual.

I'd offer if I actually knew how to program ICs. Soon soon, oh so soon. This would actually bea really good "first PIC project" for me. I'll post if I ever get it finished :).

[N-Ken]

- The posters are right in that you can't just disconnect a pin and gid rid of start, the solution would have to actually interpret the signal and block the start signals.

This solution IMO could be done without lag, once you can convert the ps2 signals to DC without lag, there's no reason you can't block start without lag. However i don't think that will solve the problem.

If someone can verify this i'd appreciate it, but i think the game auto-pauses if it stops recognizing the controller, and if it happens too fast you just see the pause screen instead of the "controller is unplugged" message. Because of 1) the DC's suspect design combined with 2) everyone using cheap convertors and 360 sticks, i think that happens more often than actually pressing start.

If that is true, then just intercepting start wouldn't work, you would actually need to 1) figure out what the DC does to determine if the controller is connected, and 2) add a device to always make sure that signal is present.



Yes sometimes it will pause without the pause button being hit IIRC, but this was happening on PS2 games also, namely Knit v Nuki, also I saw this happen on random ps2 matches also. I would still say that most marvel matches that get to pause are by actually hitting start too, so yeah this is still a problem.

[Demon Dash]

To be honest I don't think it's going to be possible... If it is it'll be rather expensive. I remember one guy who cut the plunger of his start button short making it sit inside the button it's self, but not everyone could do that.

If you're using PS2 > DC converters and then wanting another tool to read for button presses it will most likely cause input lag. The only way I think your going to do it is with a barrier strip for example. I don't think you could do it from a PS2 plug alone... If you where using a barrier strip method you could cut off the signal from the start button, but it would require Evo's own set-up. Which to be honest with you would probably be more cost efficent than producing something like this on it's own.

[omni]

Would not having the start button signal going really register the controller as not being plugged in? I can't imagine that it would because buttons break all the time and it doesn't register as controller being unplugged. Maybe the Start signal is special. shrug.

Derek Daniels
http://lowfierce.blogspot.com

[Gen-An]

Is this just a problem with sticks like the HRAP1 and the US T5 stick where Start is close to R1, or on any sticks with Select and Start on the face?

[omni]

It's not just reset but also pause. And it's not one particular stick but any user could accidently press Pause/Reset.

The solution should not be with the stick itself - because we could never agree to standardize anything nor would manufacturers.

Unfortunately we can't change the games either regarding how to pause/reset

Derek Daniels
http://lowfierce.blogspot.com

[chippermonky]

I think having all players fix there sticks such that they can't accidentally press pause is pointless. There are thousands of players, and they can't all recess their start buttons.

Like I said, a bypass for the controller to the console is the only way to effectively solve this problem, but that would be expensive.

[Hail And Kill]

The incident with hraps, i can really see how the start and select get hit. It's almost impossible to mash and not hit them a lot. So there's a solution, but it's tedious. Shave the buttons down.

As for custom sticks, the start and select should be put in front, near the cord. Easy.

Mas's sometimes have that digital problem and unplug by itself. shit happens like that all the time. A pause toggle box would be tight.

I love you derek.

[Silentness!]

I miss tournaments based soley on arcades, but back to the topic. A lot of custom sticks are built with the start button located far away from the actual playing buttons so I've never really seen a pause problem. Mainly it's just the dreaded "Controller not inserted error".

[xX_Deus_Xx]

cut the wire to your start buttons if you think you'll be doing well at evo.

[SaBrE]

I miss tournaments based soley on arcades, but back to the topic. A lot of custom sticks are built with the start button located far away from the actual playing buttons so I've never really seen a pause problem. Mainly it's just the dreaded "Controller not inserted error".


uh, MOST sticks in the community are mas sticks and hraps. start/select in plain view to get hit

[elvis_a_presley]

I suggest people use a switch that activates/deactivates the start button. It could be put to the side of the stick.

Most times start button is used to get into the game or to continue anyway.

Just put a microswitch in series with the wire that supplies power to the start button.

These are the most sensible solutions. A small on/off switch on the data line of the start button would be trivial to add to any joystick, and not interfere with normal joystick operation, nor require severe modding of the start button itself.

Me personally, I would make it so that pausing a game is an instant match forfeit. You would see people modding their own sticks pretty damned fast if you give them no second chances. But then again, people often say I'm too harsh.

And I'll also take this opportunity to smile smugly at all the people who complain about joysticks where the start button is on the back of the stick, instead of on the face. Consider how often you WANT to hit start, versus how often you DON'T WANT to hit start, and then tell me that it's still "inconvenient" to place it at the rear.

[Silentness!]

uh, MOST sticks in the community are mas sticks and hraps. start/select in plain view to get hit

lol I have a mas stick. I have no idea how people are hitting the start button (coming from a guy that mashes buttons like crazy in Marvel for extra damage off Hailstorms)

[Grego]

Answers: It would not matter if the start button was connected, the dreamcast, ps2, whatever would still recognize it as being connected since it is the serial communication between the devices that determines wether there is a controller connected. You could easily program a cheap micro, like an sx 28, to listen to the ps2's serial communications, and force a zero for the start button. This could be done as easily as a stripped open extension cable, a sx chip on a pcb, and a tranisistor to ground out the start buttons signal. If you wanted to go a little more complicated, you could have a microcontroller talking to the ps2 controller, and then outputting a modified version of what it had to say back to the ps2/dreamcast. Ofcourse the simplist way is to just add a switch to control the start button, but as said before not everyone is into modding their equipment.

[DevilJin 01]

My start is on the front side of the stick so I wouldn't have any problems. I say just force everyone to put their buttons on the side of their sticks or they get banned from Evo. Then we won't have any problems and I'll win Evo next year. :tup: