What are some of SNK's balanced fighters...other than fucking KoF?

[Akutabi Gamma]

Topic, the games that come to mind ATM are FF2S, Garou & RB2.
...and note that by BALANCED I mean: each character has a chance against any other character.

[Dark Geese]

Hmmm I'd say NGBC...because if you know the character well enough he or she can hold his or her own..

I use Athena and Kisarah to lead off in my NGBC tournies..both are what I call LTB For Low Tier Bitches...

Athena is supposedly BOTTOM TIER..but you wouldnt think that if you watch me play with her..

I also Use Kisarah..Class C..but I feel I can hold my own with them.

Also define balanced...because for every one of those games there is an S CLASS..meaning not totally balanced...

[Akutabi Gamma]

Oh sorry, by BALANCED I mean: each character has a chance against another.
..and yeah NGBC, I can't belive I forgot it :P

[polarity]

(character) balance is overrated

[DaveNK]

Hmmm I'd say NGBC...because if you know the character well enough he or she can hold his or her own..

.


That can be said for just about any fighter.

Personally for me I'd say MOTW and KOF'98 comes to mind

[Dark Geese]

Hence why I say character balance is a subjective term...

[Henaki]

(character) balance is overrated

balance is not overrated its just not immensily necessary for a game to be good.

ngbc is a bad game because there is REALLY REALLY good character for a REALLY REALLY stupid reason, and that kind of destroys any high level fun imo. if a character like this exists and completely dominates a game its not very good at higher levels. if he actually has counter characters, the balance between that character and the lower ones is good ENOUGh, or is balanced vs other top tiers, then its cool, if every game has unbanned ST akuma, it fucking sucks at high level, no matter how fun you think it is.

of course, the game can be immensily enjoyable at lower levels and have a god character.

balance makes the game better imo, better, not good.

[Dark Geese]

But if you keep up with the tiers you will see Big or Kim can be beaten..and also the tiers are changing...Yes Big and Kim and Marco and Hotaru dominate but its like anything else..because in that case then 3s sucks as well...

Yun, Chun, Ken..dominate...no questions asked...

But like morpreme says if you know your character well enough you can do what you please..see Mopreme vs. Valle at TS6 Ryu-Ryu Final...

Proof right there..taking Ryu and winning at a Major?????????????

Speaks for itself..

[goodm0urning]

balance is not overrated its just not immensily necessary for a game to be good.Balance as a goal is very overrated. In order for a game to be totally balanced, all of the characters have to play exactly the same way. I'm not saying developers should make their games as imbalanced as possible to make their games better, but I am saying that striving for perfect balance will fuck a game up just as badly.

[spudlyff8fan]

I think you're all thinking about the characters in a game. We all hate to see our characters nerfed, and it's discouraging. But Guilty Gear is one of the most balanced fighting games, and it's not because of the characters. It's because Sammy consciously went for a balanced game and they succeeded, and still have ridiculously diverse characters because they added balancing agents to the game itself, with the scaling, the repelling, hit recovery, etc.

So yeah, balancing is a noble cause.

[Zaelar]

...then 3s sucks as well...

Yun, Chun, Ken..dominate...no questions asked...

...

Proof right there..taking Ryu and winning at a Major?????????????




Thats a lot of question marks for someone who just said no questions asked.

[Dark Geese]

Yeah but thats like saying for me that if he can take Ryu and win a major its like Question marks and Exclamation marks..like one of those WTF moments..

LOL.

[DaveNK]

Hence why I say character balance is a subjective term...


Really where? in the post I just quoted cause your previous one doesn't give that impression to me.

NGBC, is not at all that balanced but it's definetly looks fun as hell to play but then again would you apply that to SNK vs. Capcom: Chaos? or even Dead or Alive 1-3?

Not one fighting game out there I know is perfectly balanced but the ones I'd give that's near it for SNK titles would be as listed with the inclusion of XI. If I were to list the ones from various fighters I'd say.. MOTW, 3S, Guilty Gear: XX Slash, Virtua Fighter FT, SF:II H, KOF:XI, KOF 99 DM (Dreamcast) these I would say are pretty much near all out balance and fun to play.

I haven't played Tenka yet but I'd damn sure hope it's close enough.

[hanz0]

samurai shodown 5 Special i think.....:wonder:

[Pablo_the_Mex]

waku waku 7

[purifyweirdsoul]

Damn guys, SS2. There's Ukyo, but still.

[Kyokuji]

Garou: MoTW
Last Blade 2 (Provided you don't use P. Zantetsu)

Samurai Shodown 2 is not balanced man. The ninjas, Cham Cham and Ukyo make sure of that.

[Dark Geese]

Well yeah I didnt say that it was directly a subjective term but indirectly by the idea that If you are good enough with whatever character you have then you can surely win...it just takes more work..

All tiers are is based off who wins tournies...and the top who wins means these are the characters who are the easiest to win tournies with..

Doesnt mean you can't win a tourney with a 3rd tier character etc...

I could certainly spend time talking about the major differences between SVC and NGBC...

The problem with SVC is that many things are wayyyy too overpowered..

Geese and Zero both have infinites, Tabasa does too...and the Capcom characters are not that strong...and I say this in neutral objective position even though I am an SNK head obviously lol.

NGBC corrects a lot of these issues and balances out more things..Now sure you have your top tiers but name a fighting game that doesnt?

As the other guy said we would have to have like 50 Yuns in 3s that all play exactly the same for things to be perfectly balanced..but that would ruin the game...we like different styles of play...

Waku Waku 7 is fucking awesome..I'm gonna post up casual vids of it in my thread surely..

:tup:

[Fadedsun303]

But if you keep up with the tiers you will see Big or Kim can be beaten..and also the tiers are changing...Yes Big and Kim and Marco and Hotaru dominate but its like anything else..because in that case then 3s sucks as well...

Yun, Chun, Ken..dominate...no questions asked...

But like morpreme says if you know your character well enough you can do what you please..see Mopreme vs. Valle at TS6 Ryu-Ryu Final...

Proof right there..taking Ryu and winning at a Major?????????????

Speaks for itself..

Makoto dominates as well, I think.

How is Tenka as far as balance goes?

[evilmuffinmanX]

What are some of SNK's balanced fighters...other than fucking KoF?

lol kof is the brokest :lol:

[Dark Geese]

For Tenka the following dominate and I surely can explain why-

Mina, Iroha, Amakusa, Shizumaru...The bubble character is Kazuki.(meaning no hes not Sogetsu lol but meaning he constantly changes between S class and A Class) Fubarduck says about 15 characters in the game are usable in a tourney and I can agree to that...Mainly S class and A Class..A Class is huge..and when the A Class has problems it mainly comes from running into the S Class...

Team MIAS....

And they are all very good against each other..Amakusa for example can be an excellent counter for both Mina and Iroha...

LOL A evilmuffs statement about KOF being the brokest...:lol:

[Kyokuji]

I wouldn't say it's broke, but 98 was the only really balanced KoF.
Every other one has had at least 3 very broken characters, and 96 was just fucked up in general.

[ViewtifulZFO]

Isn't Power Mukuro a bit unbalanced in LB2 as well? He can smash you up real good. LB1 IS more balanced, in some respects.

[funkymusic]

All further SNK questions/topics should just be posted in Dark Geeses Raging Storm thread since he seems to know whats going on with SNKP games.

Just a suggestion. Wasnt trying to throw the SNKP boys at DG.

[Khiempossible]

Playable SNK games

KOF 2k
KOF 2k2
KOF 98
GMOTW
LB2
SSTenka
SS2
RBFFS

I haven't played any others, but they're all playable. None are worse than ST in terms of balance.

[Dark Geese]

Sure thing no prob funkymusic...I appreciate you directing them there too..because it aint just me..I may know quite a bit but I dont know everything..

Thats why I say "and the others"

We got other very knowledgeable people in the games as well so many can help besides me...

:tup:

[Mizuki]

I think KoF XI, is not balanced, but is okay, I've seen Momoko's beat up Gatos, really I have. And my Athena has killed a couple of Oswalds. It's not exactly the most balanced, but it seems fairly even play.

[DaveNK]

I don't think instances of Momoko's beating Gato or Athena beating Oswald = to unbalanced

[Dasrik]

SS2
a.k.a. Ukyo vs. His Evil Clone.

[jae hoon]

Edit after re reading it it didnt say what I thought it did.

NGBC is not balanced

[Virtua_Leon]

SS5 sp WINS!!

[Atb_555]

Playable SNK games

KOF 2k
KOF 2k2
KOF 98
GMOTW
LB2
SSTenka
SS2
RBFFS

I haven't played any others, but they're all playable. None are worse than ST in terms of balance.


Not sure about that, but yeah I agree with the rest in the list and I would also add KoF 98.

[Kyokuji]

Isn't Power Mukuro a bit unbalanced in LB2 as well? He can smash you up real good. LB1 IS more balanced, in some respects.

No, he has very high damage, but he doesn't have any low-high links. Well, he does, but the timing is odd, and his :d::snkc: has shit recovery anyway. He does have some nice mind-games/mix-ups with his crawl, but it's not instant the way Zantetsu's dash slash is.

S. Moriya with the teleport glitch is sort of BS as well, but he doesn't have any 50-50 crap the way Zantetsu does. The fact is, against these characters, you don't have to worry about getting nailed from across the screen, and close-up/on wake-up, you don't have to worry about which way to block.

Other characters will still have a good chance against the other 2, although S. Moriya does screw over Okina's game a bit.

[Captain Ryu]

Shit just give me a nice amount of playable characters and no god tier character and I'm happy.

[arstal]

Here's the question- is special more balanced then tenka?

My picks:
RB2
SS Special
FF Special
Garou- though I dislike it online

[Festival6667]

You want the most balanced : Garou MOTW, no contest.

Reason : the most powerful options of the engine (basically Just Defense & Guard Cancelling for defense, feint cancelling for damage) are shared by all charas*. Since these techinques are far deadlier than any normal, special, basic chain, maneuver or super, the differences from a character to another are about as little as possible... though there are some differences and yes, a chara like Freeman suffers from the lack of a good anti-air (to give an example)

* (with the exception of The Griffon for feint cancelling but he deals enough damage to begin with)

And yes, SS2 is totally unbalanced since Ukyo eats anyone alive (I made enough money thanks to his god-tierness back in the day). on the other hand SS0SP is really balanced but kinda suffers from the Capcom Fighting Jam syndrom : balanced but boring.

This being said, a lot o game are not really balanced but are still very good you know. Balance is difficult to judge without objective data from the game. Usually it is established from match-ups but this is really subjective since characters may have very different learning curves.

[hanz0]

SS5 sp WINS!!

i am with you my brotha, i mentioned this earlier but everyone just skips this game for some reason.:confused:

[Dark Geese]

Most havent had access to SSV Special thats why..mainly they have play SSV which doesnt do SSV Sp any justice at all make no mistake about it..

[4649]

Fatal Fury Special - Billy is Broken
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqXNn_CIR-U
Garou - EVERYONE is broken except Tizoc, he sucks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNrso5aGdXI
Real Bout series - mostly everyone is broken, ESPECIALLY Rick Stroud
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ai4JPTRq8Sc
Neo Geo Battle Coliseum - you already know who's broken
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvfHBlnceQM
KOF 98 - Team USA is broken as SHIT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2zG1NFMtgE
for whoever brought up Samurai Shodown 5 Special, Genjuro unblockable is HELLA broken and rules that game
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWpvr2z64pU
who the fuck said Waku Waku 7, that shit is INSANELY broken
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6BFPkEjrJE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijd-Y1UrPwU
Last Blade 2 - now dont get me wrong, i FUCKING LOVE this game, its hella slept on.....but some shit in it is broken
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmTFEC1J9uA
SVC Chaos - well, we already know.....Zero, Zero, Zero, and Geese, Geese, yadda yadda
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8xQTnkEBp8
SS Tenka has some RETARDED link combos in it, but due to the insane difficulty i suppose the game's balanced
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYZmp5BTc-g
KOF 2000's Counter mode COMPLETELY broke the game....that and certain Striker OTG setups ( Joe for the MOTHERFUCKING WIN after EVERY string led to instant death )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5tC6wMqYmU
and no, as much as everyone says 2k2 is the most balanced KOF, it's really not....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko360opVncU
KOF XI prolly wins for most balanced KOF, but the corner = death
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhBfqvuGICs

now we can make the MvC2 argument of balance whereas if everyone is really ridiculous, no one is really ridiculous, but the truth is tiers will always exist and as far as playing stuff competitively in the US goes, due to the death of arcades and all, really you should play what you enjoy playing and base your playing experiences on fun competition since in reality the US will never be like Japan

done now :D

[TarkanX]

I believe the correct term the topic starter wants is "tournament worthy".

[Dark Geese]

In FFS Billy is broken, so is Mai!!!

Duck and Joe have infinite combos as well...

[Hokage Izlude]

I would have to say Real Bout 2, it's a pretty damn well balanced game in it's own right, although Krauser is pretty damn powerful at times, but then that's a given since he's a boss, Alfred as well, but he's unplayable without a cheat. Can't have a SNK game without the boss syndrome.

One of the things I like most about RB2 is the speed and flow of game, it's fast, smooth and it controls very well compared to some other fighters out there. I also like the combo system, since it's somewhat simple, yet the skill level of players doesn't completely depend on their ability to comb, but there is room for plenty of advanced combo's as well, but they don't make up the entire game.

[Mystic_bash]

Kizuna encounter.

[polarity]

I would have to say Real Bout 2, it's a pretty damn well balanced game in it's own right, although Krauser is pretty damn powerful at times, but then that's a given since he's a boss, Alfred as well, but he's unplayable without a cheat. Can't have a SNK game without the boss syndrome.

One of the things I like most about RB2 is the speed and flow of game, it's fast, smooth and it controls very well compared to some other fighters out there. I also like the combo system, since it's somewhat simple, yet the skill level of players doesn't completely depend on their ability to comb, but there is room for plenty of advanced combo's as well, but they don't make up the entire game.

Personally I find the game really boring. It's well-made, everything about it is very solid and it's obvious they put a lot of effort into making it so. But for me there's just no spark.

[evilmuffinmanX]

ur vids prove nothing! :annoy:

[Emil]

ur vids prove nothing! :annoy:

I was about to say...those are just combo videos. If you take kof2k2 for example, where the top tier is usually considered to be Athena, Billyl, Choi, their combos are limited in comparison to most of the cast.

[caliagent#3]

cool, didn't know that combovids dictate balance

[Emil]

I'd also like to say that in kof2k, while those Joe combos do lead to instant death, if you waste them all in the beginning, you aren't really going to be able to do much later in the match. Joe isn't THAT useful outside of combos really, unless you call him out the moment you do some punishable moves but only beginners will fall for that. Another Iori is probably more imbalanced than Joe, because although Joe leads to way better combos, Another Iori has some crazy crossup mindgames.

Also, for countermode, everyone benefits greatly from it. If you keep attackilng like an idiot when the opponent is in countermode, then of course it will look broken. Instead, play keepaway, or throw him if you get the opportunity (since his armor mode won't be able to go through throws obviously). This only doesn't apply to some armor mode characters such as Chang. In the case of being trapped in the corner with a ball spinning Chang in armor mode, even CD countering won't work. You'll either have to take the chip damage, or guard roll forward out of the way, then run.

[Rhio2k]

I believe the correct term the topic starter wants is "tournament worthy".

I so hate that term...find a fighter you like and just PLAY the fucker.

[Dark Geese]

I can see what they are saying to a degree...

What dictates combos making things unbalanced IMO is the degree of practicality of the combos..

If they are impractical then it doesn't really prove anything...

If they are very practical and guaranteed and change the game then things change with it..

Tournament worthy once again rules everything...

If I am at a tournament I'll hold a tournament for any and everything..be it tournament worthy or not...

Just for fun...Because certainly on SRK the view of tournament worthy is biased most of the time or synonymous with Capcom titles...

[Virtua_Leon]

I so hate that term...find a fighter you like and just PLAY the fucker.


^ WINS!!!

As for the genjuro unblockable HAHAHAH you cannot be serious? seriously are you serious? you can't be! you joker!!

[NEBULOSO]

Garou: MoTW
Last Blade 2 (Provided you don't use P. Zantetsu)

Samurai Shodown 2 is not balanced man. The ninjas, Cham Cham and Ukyo make sure of that.


Genan, Jubei and Charlotte as well. :wgrin:

Genjuro can be pretty brutal if you do those irritating slash canceling combos and mixing them up with his BotB special. :looney: With Ukyo's having you or your opponent walking away from the game....As it's so damn fast, and if you try and counter, you'll just get hit.

-Is P. Zantetsu really that bad? Like SS2 Ukyo? :lol:

Now back on topic:
KOF 98
Garou
RB2
SS4

[Dark Geese]

Zantetsu is really that bad..yes...lol.

Genjuro has been top tier in every SS except Tenka..

[Virtua_Leon]

People on here make me laugh they talk about SS2 UKYO this ukyo that cham cham gen-an charlotte jubei what about kyoshiro? nobody ever mentions him yet he's one of the best in the game.

Genjuro is definently not top in every ss game Bar tenka 2 3 5sp spring to mind
I'd say he's a solid A ranked character in most SS games but Top in every SS game most definently not

[Akutabi Gamma]

Hmm so basicaly I got:
Some SamSho, Garou, RB2 & RBS. Someone mentioned Waku Waku 7, but that's an Neo Geo game that wasn't made by SNK, but I'll still count it.

[Spooty Whiteboy]

Real Bout series - mostly everyone is broken, ESPECIALLY Rick Stroud
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ai4JPTRq8Sc

I knew that Vanessa had a few of Rick Stroud's moves. But I didn't realize that the Vanessa infinite was really the Rick Stroud infinite first (around 11:41). How did they let that slip twice?

[Dark Geese]

Well and Kensou had the same type of thing in 99...

[Virtua_Leon]

I dont think they let it slip probably deliberate maybe some kind of strange homeage to rick

[cygnus]

God wtf is with some of the posts in this thread? "Tenka has insane link combos but because of the difficulty I guess it's balanced?" That doesn't even make sense, in any way.

Anywho, Samurai Shodown 5 Special is the most balanced 2D fighter (barring something retarded like Karate Champ just in case someone wants to make that retarded joke for the millionth time). I won't say any more than that.

[Dark Geese]

LOL I agree...

[jae hoon]

God wtf is with some of the posts in this thread? "Tenka has insane link combos but because of the difficulty I guess it's balanced?" That doesn't even make sense, in any way.

Anywho, Samurai Shodown 5 Special is the most balanced 2D fighter (barring something retarded like Karate Champ just in case someone wants to make that retarded joke for the millionth time). I won't say any more than that.

Nah fuck Karate Champ its about SF 1.

[Khiempossible]

Fatal Fury Special - Billy is Broken
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqXNn_CIR-U
Garou - EVERYONE is broken except Tizoc, he sucks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNrso5aGdXI
Real Bout series - mostly everyone is broken, ESPECIALLY Rick Stroud
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ai4JPTRq8Sc
Neo Geo Battle Coliseum - you already know who's broken
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvfHBlnceQM
KOF 98 - Team USA is broken as SHIT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2zG1NFMtgE
for whoever brought up Samurai Shodown 5 Special, Genjuro unblockable is HELLA broken and rules that game
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWpvr2z64pU
who the fuck said Waku Waku 7, that shit is INSANELY broken
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6BFPkEjrJE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijd-Y1UrPwU
Last Blade 2 - now dont get me wrong, i FUCKING LOVE this game, its hella slept on.....but some shit in it is broken
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmTFEC1J9uA
SVC Chaos - well, we already know.....Zero, Zero, Zero, and Geese, Geese, yadda yadda
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8xQTnkEBp8
SS Tenka has some RETARDED link combos in it, but due to the insane difficulty i suppose the game's balanced
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYZmp5BTc-g
KOF 2000's Counter mode COMPLETELY broke the game....that and certain Striker OTG setups ( Joe for the MOTHERFUCKING WIN after EVERY string led to instant death )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5tC6wMqYmU
and no, as much as everyone says 2k2 is the most balanced KOF, it's really not....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko360opVncU
KOF XI prolly wins for most balanced KOF, but the corner = death
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhBfqvuGICs

now we can make the MvC2 argument of balance whereas if everyone is really ridiculous, no one is really ridiculous, but the truth is tiers will always exist and as far as playing stuff competitively in the US goes, due to the death of arcades and all, really you should play what you enjoy playing and base your playing experiences on fun competition since in reality the US will never be like Japan

done now :D

http://youtube.com/watch?v=_eaOYqvTQtQ

I guess ST is broken and unplayable as well...

[Dark Geese]

The thing with that Tenka vid is that those combos are VERY impractical..especially if it is the KYSG video..we all know KYSG and the combo artists the majority of their stuff is for show....

Impractical.

But I always take something at least from every combovid I see..I try to make these impractical combos practical...

With some success at times..

[{PFH}-Lake]

(character) balance is overrated
you should goto www.stfu.com

[Akutabi Gamma]

OK, regarding Rick in RB2, even thouh he may seem broken..I HAVE NEVER EVER SEEN A SINGLE FUCKING MATCH IN WHICH HIS INFINITE WAS USED!
Just check the last matches in here (http://rb2.sakura.ne.jp) and u'll see what I mean.
Also, 4649- That vid of Garou is for the PROTOTYPE VERSION U DUMB FUCK! The version THAT NOBODY SHOULD BE FUCKING PLAYING, the ones who did that vid deserve to be shot.

[Emil]

OK, regarding Rick in RB2, even thouh he may seem broken..I HAVE NEVER EVER SEEN A SINGLE FUCKING MATCH IN WHICH HIS INFINITE WAS USED!
Just check the last matches in here (http://rb2.sakura.ne.jp) and u'll see what I mean.
Also, 4649- That vid of Garou is for the PROTOTYPE VERSION U DUMB FUCK! The version THAT NOBODY SHOULD BE FUCKING PLAYING, the ones who did that vid deserve to be shot.

That Garou video is not of the prototype version. They only do like...two or three combos from the prototype

[Hokage Izlude]

Personally I find the game really boring. It's well-made, everything about it is very solid and it's obvious they put a lot of effort into making it so. But for me there's just no spark.

Yeah, when ya do get right down to it, RB2 doesn't exactly have the same level of depth compared to some other SNK fighters like MOTW with it's Just Defense and Break moves. MOTW was a pretty good addition to the Fatal Fury/Garou series and brought out a nice new fighting engine, although I kinda missed the multi-fighting lines the games before it employed. A bigger character rooster would of been nice too, MOTW is lacking in variety I think. Out of the 12 initial characters, 2 of them use Taekwondo. Another thing I disliked about MOTW was that every single super in the game, save for a few, were done with a simple QCFx2 motion. Made it way too easy to pull them out.

[4649]

Okay, first off, for the fucktards who i suppose didn't even watch most of anything i posted

Akutabi - as Emil said, that video is not of the prototype version. and really, dude, seeing as how this thread title indicates that you already have a bias towards SNK's main title, i suppose it would be difficult to recommend ANYTHING to you seeing as how every fighter SNK makes shares some resemblance, am I right? so why the fucking hostility?

Callmeanewb - ST has some plain unwinnable matchups and hard-set tiers and you fucking know it. evidence? i give you Cammy and Blanka versus, well, EVERYONE ELSE. so do a great deal of SNK fighters. That was my goddamned point, since nobody around here knows how to read into anything without being a cockbite

cygnus - like Dark Geese said, i was simply displaying the KYSG stuff to make the point that the only ridiculously imbalanced stuff is impractical, not to mention the fact that the top tiers in Tenka require a great deal of effort - for instance, the fact that Mina can't take a hit for shit, the fact that Shizumaru forces you to hold D all day, etc.

Virtua-Leon - what the fuck? like Nebuloso said, slash cancel mixup is too good....A-Cho players were still doing that shit in 2k4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yf5Hst-5Cwc
you wanna tell me what ISN'T fucked up about his card? that shit predates Anji's fucking butterfly in Guilty Gear!!!

you mention Kyoshiro? Arcadia Magazine tells the tale of the tape: D tier. end of story. provide some evidence contrary to the prior or stfu.

as Geese said, practicality of the combos in those videos ( and they weren't all combo videos ), ease of execution and damage output can change the way people view character balance. a lot of people obviously dont realize the "chaos theory" equation; SOMETHING in EVERY fighting game has SOME broken-as-shit element to it, new or old, doesn't matter. really, what should be the determining factor in a "tourney worthy" evaluation is:

a. number of serious players willing to put money where their mouth is.
b. fun factor that keeps the players coming back for more tourneys.
c. some element of deep strategy within the matches.

THAT'S IT.

[Dasrik]

i give you Cammy and Blanka versus, well, EVERYONE ELSE.
I may not have watched the videos, but you have not played ST.

[Ry Guy]

Oh, dear god. Using combo videos to call characters broken? Combo videos are ripe with impractical shit. Few people make combo videos to showcase practical gameplay tactics. They're cool to watch, but you can go through a whole video with almost nothing geniunely useful in a normal match. You've got a messed up character when you can actually CONNECT something from one of those videos.

[spudlyff8fan]

I once saw a Roboky combo vid for Slash where he did a 100% damage. Therefore, he is the best character in GG Slash. Don't deny it. You know it's true.

But if everyone is broken...doesn't that mean that it's balanced...?

[4649]

nobody was using combo videos to say anyone was broken. if you even BOTHERED to watch any of that you would have seen that not all of them were combo videos. the Billy one is a match highlight vid displaying how unfair he is in actual play and how he pretty much beats everyone.

spudly, shut the fuck up.

close this stupid ass thread.

[spudlyff8fan]

What, do I need to post the vid to prove it?

[cygnus]

slash cancel mixup is too good....A-Cho players were still doing that shit in 2k4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yf5Hst-5Cwc
you wanna tell me what ISN'T fucked up about his card? that shit predates Anji's fucking butterfly in Guilty Gear!!!
There are about a billion and a half ways out of Genjuro's card shennanegans, especially in 5sp where the card comes out very slow and all his pokes are slowed down and his damage is lessened. Don't get me wrong, Genjuro is very good in 5sp, but not even close to overpowered. It is very very difficult train someone to fall into that trap with ss5sp's rolling wakeups, instant jumps, etc. It does about 50% and is only useable once an entire match, plus you forefit the ability to use enlightenment or ABC burst out of a guaranteed combo during the match or your opponent's enlightenment.

Edit - BTW that was a very good tournament, I was just talking about it with someone today. It is definitely one of my favorites. Best matches in ss5sp I have ever seen, extrememly skilled players.

[Khiempossible]

Callmeanewb - ST has some plain unwinnable matchups and hard-set tiers and you fucking know it. evidence? i give you Cammy and Blanka versus, well, EVERYONE ELSE. so do a great deal of SNK fighters. That was my goddamned point, since nobody around here knows how to read into anything without being a cockbite

But Blanka has a 100% combo! Isn't he broken?

I'm just saying that your vids prove nothing, add nothing, and don't help to explain whether a game is viable for tournaments or not.

That and I can't tell if you're for or against the tournament viability of those games.

[DevilJin 01]

You guys are babies. Fuck balance. Bring the rape.

[Emil]

Oh, dear god. Using combo videos to call characters broken? Combo videos are ripe with impractical shit. Few people make combo videos to showcase practical gameplay tactics. They're cool to watch, but you can go through a whole video with almost nothing geniunely useful in a normal match. You've got a messed up character when you can actually CONNECT something from one of those videos.

Actually, alot of those videos he posted contain practical combos. Almost all of those Garou combos there are practical, except the ones that use like 5 or so feint cancels. Just remove one or two from the combo and the combo because very practical (since those feint combos require you to move up very slightly in order to not get pushed out of range, so doing many of them is difficult). As for the kof2k2 combo video he posted, those combos are actually easy, you will see a lot of them in high level gameplay. Now if he were to have posted a kof2k2 combo video such as Never End 2/3, then that would have been impractical, but the early kof2k2 combo videos contained combos that people INITIALLY stated would never be used in a match, yet now are bread and butter in high level gameplay (including even online gameplay). And almost every single match you see of high level Angel players, you will see many variations of the Angel infinite, so don't even think that combo is impractical because it's totally not.

The kof2000 combos are almost all practical. They are not very difficult to perform at all, especialy anything involving Joe strikers.

You shouldn't be commenting on the practicality of the combos if you can't do the combos or don't know anything about the game to begin with.

[Kyokuji]

The combos in that FightEden LB2 video are very very basic and poorly done.
Most of it is just speed special combos with a special or a super at the end which is like the very definition of basic. It'd be like me posting a 3 hit-jump-in to super combo for Third Strike or something.
More than half of them aren't even possible without infinite meter which is retarded, and a lot of them use banned infinites.
Hell, he didn't even know how to finish Juzoh's throw DM, and why the hell is there a clip of him just doing his SDM for no apparent reason?
If you want to see broken, watch the KoFUnion video.

I shit out better combos in the very worst of my matches.

[Dark Geese]

The truth.

Emil's right here!!! :tup:

If you go in thinking the stuff is impractical sure you will never see anything useful all the time.

I go in taking a look at everything in a combo vid and then trying everything myself...that way I find out firsthand what is practical and what is not...

[Akutabi Gamma]

Akutabi - as Emil said, that video is not of the prototype version. and really, dude, seeing as how this thread title indicates that you already have a bias towards SNK's main title, i suppose it would be difficult to recommend ANYTHING to you seeing as how every fighter SNK makes shares some resemblance, am I right? so why the fucking hostility?

OK, you can bash me for the hostility, mainly cuz that's not my 'style', heck de-rep me for it, but whenever someone says Garou is broken I instantly snap, cuz it ain't. Secondly, I apologize for my post I mistook the combo vid u posted with another, so yeah de-rep me for that also.
...but regarding what u said about Garou being broken from that combo vid is not a good evidence- have u ever watched any Garou match vids? I've seen a couple and even in those I haven't seen much long damaging combos, or maybe barely. In fact most of the cast can handle one another just about fine, with maybe the exception of Tizoc; I have yet to see a match where he does some good ass kicking, and I'll overlook ur lame comment about 'Tizoc sucks' as some if not most of the ppl who post in the Garou thread use Tizoc and despite his many negativities still enjoy playing as him.

[Dark Geese]

If you wanna watch practical Garou vids in their best look up Nocturnals match vids in my thread..he has some good ways to put this stuff to use in the game..

[Festival6667]

Garou - EVERYONE is broken except Tizoc, he sucks
1) That is called the game engine, not a bug in the game engine...

2) You call people fucktards after showing that you obviously don't know shit about Garou's engine... very well, keep your so-called knowledge for yourself scrub. Your video proves nothing except that you never understood a damn thing about the game

3) The Big Bird isn't the best, that's granted but have you only ever noticed that he doen't even play like the rest of the cast? Hell, your comment is as clever as saying "Gief sucks" And I see you coming, saying "no good player plays him" or whatever because there's no good vid with him and he can't combo. Shit, it that's the case then Jae Hoon sucks too since he loses pathetically in like 98% of the vids since Garou was released... But anyway, The Griffon must suck since you can't play him well, ain't I right?

So go on and hate me, call me a fucktard, neg me, shit on me but do me a favor and spare me your "knowledge".

[Kyokuji]

I have to agree. You haven't shown that you really understand any of the games you posted videos for, since a lot of them were very underwhelming and in the case of the LB2 one, just crap. That shit was like below practical.

Besides, I thought Freeman was bottom tier in Garou?

[Festival6667]

Yup, in a nutshell, Freeman is "low" since he suffers from poor anti-airs and a barely usable super (the counter one). This being said, Freeman benefits like everyone from feint cancelling and all so anyway the tiers are very close one to another. It's just that he doesn't have a special thing to be feared like Terry's "walking" feint, Dong or Jenet's air control, Kevin's combos "from anything to everything" etc.

[DavDz]

What tier is Rock. I usually hear that he is bottom, but I am not too sure.

[Festival6667]

I don't want to launch another tiering debate for Garou, especially since the tiers are so close but rock is usually considered as mid/low-mid since he is overall good with no real flaws but no special threat either.

Basically, tiering in garou is a giant mid-tier with an upper-mid/high tier made of mid-tiers who have something special up their sleeve, and a lower-mid/low tier made of mid-tiers lacking something (like freeman). As I said earlier, Garou is technically one of the most balanced games since the most deadly tools are shared by the whole cast so tiering has little meaning for once.

[4649]

1) That is called the game engine, not a bug in the game engine...

2) You call people fucktards after showing that you obviously don't know shit about Garou's engine... very well, keep your so-called knowledge for yourself scrub. Your video proves nothing except that you never understood a damn thing about the game

3) The Big Bird isn't the best, that's granted but have you only ever noticed that he doen't even play like the rest of the cast? Hell, your comment is as clever as saying "Gief sucks" And I see you coming, saying "no good player plays him" or whatever because there's no good vid with him and he can't combo. Shit, it that's the case then Jae Hoon sucks too since he loses pathetically in like 98% of the vids since Garou was released... But anyway, The Griffon must suck since you can't play him well, ain't I right?

So go on and hate me, call me a fucktard, neg me, shit on me but do me a favor and spare me your "knowledge".

what the fuck? :confused:

calm down there buddy. take a chill pill, call your mom, see a priest, do whatever you need to do. i'll wait.

you good? okay.

i'm not the best at Garou admittedly. i never said i was god, and anyhoos, chill the fuck out, it's a game, first off. secondly, you wanna tell me exactly what Tizoc has going for him against the rest of the cast? let's say Jae Hoon, since you brought him up: what advantages does he have against Jae? any? what exactly is he supposed to do against Jae EXCEPT be rushed the fuck down?

damn, you people are so bitter. i never said any of these games WEREN'T tourney worthy, i just said some facets about them were broken. the same can be said about games like T5:DR where you have broken ass Steve, yet in KSK ranbats you have KYSG fucking Steves up left and right with Roger Jr. it's all relevant.

but you know what? thread's yours. i'll do you your favor of sparing you my knowledge, now why don't you contribute something instead of bitching and crying like a little girl?

[spudlyff8fan]

what the fuck? :confused:

calm down there buddy. take a chill pill, call your mom, see a priest, do whatever you need to do. i'll wait.

you good? okay.

You lost right there.

[Azagtoth]

the same can be said about games like T5:DR where you have broken ass Steve, yet in KSK ranbats you have KYSG fucking Steves up left and right with Roger Jr. it's all relevant.

Too bad Steve isn't that great in DR (DR =/= 5.0), and Roger Jr. isn't that bad, so that's not even a good example. "Lolz he beat up a mid tier character with another mid tier character!"

Btw, no game is completely free of "broken" shit, and despite the belief that balance is a good thing, all of the games still being played are still pretty broken, so this is all pointless.

[spudlyff8fan]

9999 just reminded me of why Tizoc is still playable. He does so damn much damage. Coincidentally, I play as Jae Hoon.

[4649]

Btw, no game is completely free of "broken" shit, and despite the belief that balance is a good thing, all of the games still being played are still pretty broken, so this is all pointless.

exactly what i've said about a million times

close this thread already