Bison (dictator) Thread

[r3ko]

Susprised there isn't a thread for him already, but anyway here goes. This is gonna be more of a random musings than an actual guide, once the wiki is back up i'll write something more coherent.

Bison is an upper mid to top tier character. He does loads of damage, has some great normals, awesome throw and has few bad matchups. Despite his good points his he is a tricky character to use. With only his super as a reversal, your opponents are gonna put a lot pressure on in the air and in the corner aswell as on wakeup situations.

Bison has to take control of the match. Your main aim is to get a knockdown. He has alot of options after he knocks down an opponent (remember if your going for a meaty/tick attempt, then slide in after the knockdown to close that gap asap while keeping your charge):
-Crouching Forward is a beastly meaty, incredibly hard to reverse. You can score big combos off it or tick in throws. You could try comboing into scissor/crusher or ticking straight into throw or link a short or two into a throw. Even could try cancelling into a headstomp to mix things up a bit. In the corner a meaty blocked crouching forward cancelled into a crusher will cross up the opponent ready for a combo or throw.
-Tick throw with standing short or standing strong. Once again hard to reverse.
-Cross-up Roundhouse/Forward, allows for combos and standing short pressure and ticks. Example combo would be crossup roundhouse, standing short x2, crouching forward cancelled into a crusher. If blocked go for a throw after the first or second short.
-Headstomp and devil reverse are good attacks on a downed opponent which has a number interesting follow ups, such as walk in throw. standing strong also combos with the punch followup of the headstomp and dizzies quite often.
-Meaty super, good for finishing off opponent by chip damage or can setup some good pressure such as tick throws or added block string chip damage.

Bison's Throw is one of the best in the game, allows for lots of ticks and has lots of followups, regardless whether the opponent teched it or not, abuse it as much as you can. If opponent techs the throw you can walk up to them as they land, and tick into another throw with standing short. If they get used to that then walk up, crouching forward into standing Roundhouse combo. If they don't tech refer to the section above. Also if you manage to throw your opponent into the corner you can try a slide which ambigiously crosses up in the corner.

Even with a lack of reversal, bison does have some anti-air options. His Jumping Strong has alot of priority and combos into more strongs whilst in the air. Coupled with his incredibly long jump, as long as you can see the the opponents jump early you should be able to beat nearly any air attack. Straight up jumping forward/roundhouse also works extremely well. Also Jump straight up Short works well to hit sim's limbs on the way down. And at certian ranges scissor kick will also do the job.

Bison's standing forward/roundhouse is good for stuffing and trading with fireballs, aswell as following up a blocked scissor kick. Bison can do some serious chip damage in the form of block strings, nowhere near as good as champion edition days but still worth mentioning. Using scissors and jab crusher coupled with crouching forward, standing short, standing forward and standing and crouching strong you can make some interesting block strings to confuse and expose your opponent. Avoid extended block strings as these are reversal bait.

Combatting fireballs its best not to jump in, his air time is long so easy to anti air, so i suggest jumping straight up over fireballs and gradually walking forward and put some pressure on with your forward and roundhouse. Be prepared to jump mp on reaction though as opponents may try jumping at you if you get with their jump range.

Some combos you should try to learn are, obviously your jumping strong combo in the air. Try to land one, and jump again to get the other 2 (max 3 hits in total) when you have super. As you combo the super on their way down after the 2 hits.
Also jumping roundhouse, crouching forward cancelled into crusher is good damage and dizzies alot.
TOD (touch of death; does over 50% damage and dizzies) combo is jumping roundhouse, standing short, crouching forward cancelled into scissor for the dizzy 99% of the time.
Also the crossup cobo explained above, if its too tricky, try jumping crossup roundhouse into 2 standing shorts followed by a standing forward, not as damaging, doesn't normally dizzy but easy to do.

Thats all i can think of at the moment, hopefully some much wiser players can contribute.

[ShinVega]

-Dic's air strong can be chained up to three times, and is great for anti-air against fast opp. (ex. chun, claw).
-Up + Short is a great air counter.
-End most if not all combos w/short or foward scissor kick.
-Use psycho crusher sparingly, I only use Jab.
-Dic's Head stomp and Devil Reverse both have two distinct features:

_1. If you start the special with a short/jab you can finish it with a fierce/rh and the damage will be dealt accordingly.

_2. There are three distance settings for the initial input for each special (they can be used at any time no matter where the opp. is) UpAway, Up, and UpTowards. For the second input (while dic's in the air) can be controlled by holding toward/away once the desired button is pressed.

Example. If guile is on the opposite side of the screen and you see he's going to throw a sonic boom (if you're already charged) you could press UpTowards+short to do a head stomp b/f he can counter w/flash kick. This can quickly be followed (while still in the last frames of the head stomp) by a fierce skull diver.

These distances are very useful for tricking your opp.
-Dic also has great throw range, and walking speed.
-Dic's super is easy to combo and covers a large portion of the stage. It's also pretty safe and hits after the first 10 frames.

[r3ko]

Almost forgot about the overheard in the corner. Jump and press Forward very quickly next to your opponent when have thier backs in the corner as they get up for an overhead attack.

[nicola]

Old Bison is a good character?

[Kyokuji]

Don't see the point of using old Bison really.

[nicola]

I have two questions about Bison:
1)In the Wiki NKI wrote that the Psycho Crusher can be used to escape tick throws.Is it true?
2)What are the best and the worst matchups for Bison?
Thanks.

[ShinVega]

1) In order to counter a tick throw you need a reversal move, psycho crusher isn't a reversal; however, it does have 3 frames of invincibility so some ticks would catch you.
2) Best match up for Dic is probably (considering an average for all ST character match up possibililties) Claw. Claw's best move is Flying Barcelona attack and can be easily coutered with j.SP This does require practice and reflex to perfect. Worst Match Up is E. Honda by far. If E. Honda locks you down at any point your screwed due to his Ochio Throw. His (dic's) weak point is that he has no reversal move (except for his super) and therefore makes escape impossibel unless the opp. screws up, misses hundred hand slap or etc. Never block a jump in from E. Honda otherwise you'll be set up for the following.
REMEMBER: NKI also said (like any human opp. would say) every match is winnable!!

[Kyokuji]

1) In order to counter a tick throw you need a reversal move, psycho crusher isn't a reversal.

No, but it does lift him off the ground.

[nicola]

Thanks for the advices!
Can someone give me some help for fighting shotokans and Boxer with Bison?

[Professor Jones]

Every special move can be a reversal...
And dic can't use the psycho crusher to escape tick throw attemps, because the sartup frames of the move are throwable, he doesn't leave the ground right away (same for scissor kicks). Dic's only option in this situation is to do a reversal throw (or a fast normal move if they are not ticking at point blank range).

[jaminbenjamin]

I thought I read that the first few frames of the psycho crusher were invincible, even though they had no hit frames. So, doing the psycho crusher as a reversal to ticks builds your super meter and beats really bad ticks, but otherwise will lose in the short run.

[SweetJohnnyV]

I thought I read that the first few frames of the psycho crusher were invincible, even though they had no hit frames. So, doing the psycho crusher as a reversal to ticks builds your super meter and beats really bad ticks, but otherwise will lose in the short run.

According to the Yoga Book Hyper, it breaks down like this:

LP Psycho Crusher: Invincible for 3 frames, starts hitting on frame 19
MP Psycho Crusher: Invincible for 2 frames, starts hitting on frame 16
HP Psycho Crusher: Invincible for 1 frames, starts hitting on frame 12

So yeah, I guess it would have to be a really bad tick in order to work:wgrin:

[Se7in]

According to the Yoga Book Hyper, it breaks down like this:

LP Psycho Crusher: Invincible for 3 frames, starts hitting on frame 19
MP Psycho Crusher: Invincible for 2 frames, starts hitting on frame 16
LP Psycho Crusher: Invincible for 1 frames, starts hitting on frame 12

So yeah, I guess it would have to be a really bad tick in order to work:wgrin:

:confused:

[fatboy]

TOD (touch of death; does over 50% damage and dizzies) combo is jumping roundhouse, standing short, crouching forward cancelled into scissor for the dizzy 99% of the time.



Can't you do the St.short x 2 in the TOD combo for a gauranteed dizzy?

I know I have seen it in several SBO videos.:looney:

Also isn't another TOD Jp. forward (CROSS UP) st.shortx2 > cr. forward> scissor?

I am not sure about the combo's I just mentioned. I am going of off memory. I am not try to spread mis-information. Can anyone coonfirm the combo's of of memory for me?:sweat:

Otherwise I'll try it tonight when I get home.

[SweetJohnnyV]

:confused:

Oops! Fixed :wgrin:

[BKB]

Yeah, crossup forward, s.short x2, c.forward, fierce crusha is usually the dizzy combo i see most. You won't get many front on jump-ins with him, and if you get the knockdown why not go for crossup?

The invicible crusha would be most useful against gief, maybe hawk. Better off going for counter-throw against everything else I think. Unless you wanna play the lottery against Cammy's hooligan roll or something..

Last ditch, no-life, meaty fireball evade? :rofl:

[BKB]

double post, yay.

A couple questions about the headstomp :

Can you do the headstomp so that you don't bounce back, a la CvS2? I think in CvS2 you do it very very meaty, you'll hit them on the ankles, and then land so you can combo afterwards?

I know you can do headstomp, then whiff crossup dive punch thing, then throw for a sneaky throw. But is it possible to actually crossup and HIT with the dive punch? combo afterwards?

..and finally, can someone please breakdown how the headstomp works? Does performing it with up-back, up, up-forward make a difference? Sometimes I'll try to hit a fireballer, but instead I'll fly WAY up and across the other side of the stage hitting nothing. How do you do that on purpose, and how do you avoid it?

thanks!

[ShinVega]

BKB

Read my first post in this thread. Yes, there is a hit box on the opp. which if timed correctly will land a headstomp without reverting to the skull diver animation. You can comb skull diver, c.Fierce.

IMO Devil Reverse is more useful than headstomp.

[BKB]

yes, thanks, but it doesn't exactly breakdown the headstomp, and why sometimes it doesn't hit anything..

[ShinVega]

If you input the command for a devil reverse with the opposite direction or up+toward you'll either not go towards the opp. at all (but still complete the motion), or you'll sail over the top of your opp. to the other side of the screen; respectively. This allows you to trick opp. into thinking you're attempting a headstomp/devil reverse when in actuallity you're not; so if they attempt a counter and you go past them you have some attack options open. Basically there are three distances to choose from at all times Up+away, Up, Up+towards. If the opp. is at jump distance from you, and there back is not to the wall you can go over them without ever hitting them.
If the attack does hit then you can hold towards/away and dic will move in the second air portion of the desired attack (headstomp/devil reverse). I hope this is clear now, if it's not please let me know.
If the opp. is in hitstun you'll automatically go over them w/o hitting them if you attempt a headstomp.

[ThisGuileKillYa]

Couple questions..

Shinvega.. you said you find the devils reverse to be more useful than the head stomp. How so? I'm not doubting you, but at this point it feels to me like the stomp is far more useful, i was wondering what you're doing with the reverse to make it not only AS useful as the stomp, but even more so?

Another question is about the headstomp.. here is the pattern Ive seen used against me with the stomp.. I was wondering how this is done so I can use it vs others: They fly at me and stomp, then the followup punch crosses over and hits from the other side. Ive even seen it where after the air punch, they land on the OTHER SIDE yet again! If that's possible to do intentionally I'd like to know how. Tho most important is being able to cross over with the followup punch without whiffing and getting smacked when I land.

And I guess while Im posting about Bison, I'll ask: with the fierce crusher, when it's blocked, someone gets to throw after it's over. Seems to go both ways. Should one side get the throw consistantly with the correct timing? or is it a matter of the engine picking a random winner in the event of a tie(which it does)? I just need to know if this situation is a weapon, or something to be avoided.

Thanks!!

[Soundatron]

how would u compare the Air-2-Air's against such AA's as
far HP
cr. HP

[ShinVega]

ThisGuileKillYa:

1. Shinvega.. you said you find the devils reverse to be more useful than the head stomp. How so? I'm not doubting you, but at this point it feels to me like the stomp is far more useful, i was wondering what you're doing with the reverse to make it not only AS useful as the stomp, but even more so?

You have complete control over the devil reverse, and it has useful properties, like crossup, cancel, intentional whiff, and a.air. You control the special from start to finish.

2. Another question is about the headstomp.. here is the pattern Ive seen used against me with the stomp.. I was wondering how this is done so I can use it vs others: They fly at me and stomp, then the followup punch crosses over and hits from the other side. Ive even seen it where after the air punch, they land on the OTHER SIDE yet again! If that's possible to do intentionally I'd like to know how. Tho most important is being able to cross over with the followup punch without whiffing and getting smacked when I land.


Here are the controls for the headstomp: If you perform the headstomp and right before you hit the opp. you hold toward or away, that will determin the side of your opp. the skull diver comes from (this is important for crossup opportunities)!
The point at which you must strike your opp. in order to cause a cross-up is based on the hit boxes for that opp. stance at the time of your attempt (i.e. it all depends on the situation, check YBH). If the opp. blocks the stomp (opp. is in block stun) if you go to the other side and perform the skull diver quickly you will "crossup" your opp. IF THE OPP. is in hit stun, recovery animation, or invincibilty frames (this will require more experiments) the headstomp will float over the opp. Further investigaion of the previous sentence leads to the following generalization/theory:

If you cancel any P normal into the headstomp the direction reverts to the direction (for the first part ex. charge dn, up + tw + P) of the devil reverse even thought you input the headstomp command (charge dn, up + tw + K)!! I would like some confirmations on this; it's hard to test by yourself.

3. And I guess while Im posting about Bison, I'll ask: with the fierce crusher, when it's blocked, someone gets to throw after it's over. Seems to go both ways. Should one side get the throw consistantly with the correct timing? or is it a matter of the engine picking a random winner in the event of a tie(which it does)? I just need to know if this situation is a weapon, or something to be avoided.


I'd say it's something to just be avoided since many ppl would punish a whiffed fierce psycho crusher. If you use any psycho crushers I would reccomend the jab version since it has 3 (as compared to 1 for the fierce psycho crusher) and use it sparingly. The game does pick a random winner like you said. There's no sort of frame advantage/dis-advantage so it really doesn't matter.

[CapMaster]

I must say r3ko, your avataer is incredible. Cracks me up everytime. Howd you come up with that?

[FreddyL0c0]

K

what can Bison do against the following:

1. vs Dhalsim: Constant, well placed drills, that lead to slides and more drill mayhem. And in the corner, infinite yoga flames = gg?? I cant jump out cause he recovers right in time to do another one when im in block stun

2. vs Zangief : His Body jump attack (with down fierce) countering my attempts to get out of there, my jumping medium punch, psycho crusher, down fierce and standing fierce as an anti-air? Cause if i block that shit, SPD

[Soundatron]

also make sure you pray before you fight Gief. I usually try to zone him with staning MK/HK.

[ShinVega]

K

what can Bison do against the following:

1. vs Dhalsim: Constant, well placed drills, that lead to slides and more drill mayhem. And in the corner, infinite yoga flames = gg?? I cant jump out cause he recovers right in time to do another one when im in block stun

2. vs Zangief : His Body jump attack (with down fierce) countering my attempts to get out of there, my jumping medium punch, psycho crusher, down fierce and standing fierce as an anti-air? Cause if i block that shit, SPD

1. Try s.Strong/s.Fierce against drill>slide attack (if your not in the corner then time a short Knee Press to hit as the drill attack lands or use head stomp/devil reverse). As for a counter slide attack I recommend jab psycho crusher (since it has more hitting frames than the slide and lifts you from the ground with slight invincibility). Yoga Flames in the corner can be stopped with a well timed s.Foward/rh.

2. Use a c.fierce to counter the body splash every time. note: dic's c.fierce has nine frames of start up and six hitting frames so time it well. It works b/c of the hit box locations.

[ThisGuileKillYa]

I was wondering why this situation happens and how I can prevent it.

I'm Dictator and the opponent is a projectile thrower. We're between 1/2 screen and full screen apart. I am crouching, anticipating a fireball. They throw one, so I immediately do a headstomp as punishment. To my surprise, Bison just flies over them and lands behind them! Why am I not stomping?? Seems like a perfect time for a stomp to teach them that fireballs arent safe. no? I've tried this with the up and up/fwd stomps and both do this. What gives? thanks in advance.

Oh yeah another question.. I was watching a YuuVega video, and he seems to like to crossup with short a lot. I was under the impression forward was the main crossup move and that rounhouse could also be used. I knew short crossed up, but when and why would I ever use it? Just to mixup stun length?

[ShinVega]

I was wondering why this situation happens and how I can prevent it.

I'm Dictator and the opponent is a projectile thrower. We're between 1/2 screen and full screen apart. I am crouching, anticipating a fireball. They throw one, so I immediately do a headstomp as punishment. To my surprise, Bison just flies over them and lands behind them! Why am I not stomping?? Seems like a perfect time for a stomp to teach them that fireballs arent safe. no? I've tried this with the up and up/fwd stomps and both do this. What gives? thanks in advance.

Oh yeah another question.. I was watching a YuuVega video, and he seems to like to crossup with short a lot. I was under the impression forward was the main crossup move and that rounhouse could also be used. I knew short crossed up, but when and why would I ever use it? Just to mixup stun length?

1. I've messed with this as well, and I've come up with two "possible" reasons. The headstomp has 30 frames of start up if it takes more than 30 frames for you to counter the fireball it won't hit [unless you use the appropriate distance short, foward, or RH i.e. depending on the distance between you and your opp.]; However, if you time it as a REVERSAL it hits 100% of the time (from testing w/AE and it obviously says reversal in screen). An alternate method is to use the DevilReverse +UpTwd +Jab and then Jab to do a quick DevilReverse although this requires a fair amount of timing in itself and rarley hits (b/c it's hard to hit the opp. b/f there back in neutral). Another possibility is that since the headstomp immediately hits (where as the DevilReverse hits only after putting in another command) the cpu might not be able to distinguish between the fireball and the opp.

2. YBH: pg. 171 explains part of your question. For the j.Fd, j. RH the time at which you hit the button determines whether or not it will cross up. This has to do with the hitting frames and hit boxes. Short has the shortest amt. of startup frames 2, as compared to 3, and 5 respectively for fwd and rh. Plus the short will always hit as a crossup depending on distancing over opp. The downside to the short crossup is the hit box is smaller than the fwd and rh are. Since you use a crossup to combo I don't see why mixing up stun length would have any usefulness.

If any of this is wrong or confusing please let me know.:wgrin:

[Professor Jones]

I always do the head stomp that way : charge 1, 7+kick. I never have problems with punishing fireballs with that. I think that if you use the 8 or 9 direction to do the headstomp, Dic goes farther (it's also the case with the devil reverse.

As for the crossup question, I almost never see top Dic players use short. Most of the time they use mk, and sometimes hk. There really is no reason to use short, since its hitbox makes it a poor crossup compared to mk and hk, and you don't even need it to mixup the direction the opponent must block.

[ThisGuileKillYa]

As for the crossup question, I almost never see top Dic players use short. Most of the time they use mk, and sometimes hk. There really is no reason to use short, since its hitbox makes it a poor crossup compared to mk and hk, and you don't even need it to mixup the direction the opponent must block.

Well what prompted my question was a video I saw of YuuVega where he used short more often than he didn't. Though in other videos I've seen him in, he didn't use it as much.

And here's a new question(s): Any tips on the vs Chun Li matchup? She's very difficult to get in on and it seems very uphill if she's up in life. And I guess I should also ask about jab DP happy shotos (in partic. O ken). Because it doesn't seem safe to try and punish a whiffed DP because the next one seems to pop me before I can get a standing forward out or whatever.

[Professor Jones]

Can you please give me a link to that video ? I'd really like to see it.

Against chun li, remember that jumping short is a very good air counter against her. Punish her fireballs on reaction with the headstomp if she's turtling at the other end of the screen. Pressure her with the usual Dic offensive tools and force her to make mistakes, like whiffing upkicks.

To punish dp's, I almost always use st. rh. Against ryu who has a slower dp, you can try punishing him with a scissor kick.

[Grits'N'Gravy]

The only thing I can say for the chun li match is: get full meter before she starts to flopkick you. Kneepress nightmare is the only way out of that bullshit.

Take it from me, I went 2 and out vs scrub chuns cause I didn't charge up at evo east.

Besides that, your general air to air stuff is all good. Since her reversals aren't that great, if you get corner it's all over. (Whenever I had her cornered before she could flopkick me, I won the round) Mix up the tick throws with knee presses and do the mk/hk stuff, cmk meaty etc.

In hindsight, I should've counter charactered w/ Honda... oh well.

[ThisGuileKillYa]

Nice stuff, guys. thanks.

And howabout vs the O ken shit? Prof Jones suggested standing RH to punish whiffed DPs, but this was after I had just said a standing forward(faster than RH) was too slow. I'm talking about the JAB DP here. If I totally see the DP coming, I can gamble and kick him on the way down. But on reaction, O Ken is already DPing again by the time I press kick. And I'm not slow lol

I guess a general strategy for the ground game could suggest the best courses of action here. I usually like to dance around and charge down as much as possible(without being too obvious about it) to try and stomp a fireball or build meter and fly around with the devils reverse (which Ive been using much more/better.. thanks ShinVega! :) ), but man a good O ken just seems to build a wall with the fireball traps and jab DPs. Maybe I was just out-matched by the last guy i faced in this matchup, but damn it was hard to get a move in edgewise.

So what's the general approach vs a quick O Ken? I'm worried mainly about the nearly unpunishable jab DPs I can keep him out but I cant get in!

Thanks, you guys rule with a glowing fist

[Professor Jones]

I personally have no problems punishing o ken's jab dps with standing rh. Work on that and when your opponent will get punished for every whiffed dps he does he will start to use them more wisely. Against fireballs, if you are close enough use st rh, this will be a trade but in your favor. From afar use the headstomp, if you can't jump straight up or simply block. Fireball cornertraps can be a pain in the ass for dic, so be patient and wait for the opportune moment to get out of them.

[KnightWarrior]

Does anyone have a youtube video of Bison's 7 hit re-dizzy combo from CE

[Grits'N'Gravy]

Prof Jones:

All Bison players know that jab Crusher beats Hondas headbutts and Blanka balls, but I'd like to know if you know of anything else it beats. I find myself never really using the Psycho Crusher unless I am pretty sure it will hit or trade, or if my opponent tries to jump over me with some bullshit and it hits from behind/bottom. Or in combos, obviously.

I'd like to know if you know any other good things to do with jab crusher/crushers in general. Usually if I am in crusher range I scissor.

Also: Anybody play OG Bison? The homing skull dive is fucking jokes!!! =))))

[jchensor]

And howabout vs the O ken shit? Prof Jones suggested standing RH to punish whiffed DPs, but this was after I had just said a standing forward(faster than RH) was too slow. I'm talking about the JAB DP here. If I totally see the DP coming, I can gamble and kick him on the way down. But on reaction, O Ken is already DPing again by the time I press kick. And I'm not slow lol

The key to punishing the Jab DP is that you have to train yourself to not be Blocking. You have to learn how to play Bison without Blocking. Seriously. If you are Blocking when he Jab DPs and whiffs, you will be stuck for a brief period and cannot punish the Jab DP.

Instead, learn to be in Neutral or, better yet, holding Towards on the joystick and pressing Jab to stop yourself from moving forward. When I play against Kens, I know that once he gets close enough for Jab DPs to be a threat, he cannot throw Fireballs anymore (Standing Roundhouse trades with Fireballs on reaction. See if he keeps throwing Fireballs. ^_^). Then, when he starts whiffing Jab DPs, you are already moving forward (or in Jab delay but that's not a problem at all) and you are free to kick him. Pretty much as soon as you see him DP, just walk up and Kick. Don't worry about getting him on the way down. Naturally, you'll Kick AFTER he stops hitting because it is so fast. Just go up and kick it. Again, if you are at Defensive Crouch or Holding Back, you will go into Block animation, then come out, and you can't move forward fast enough to punish him.

Standing Roundhouse MAKES Bison good against Ken. Bison is one of the only characters Ken can't whiff Jab DPs on mindlessly because of it. Once Ken starts getting worried and backs off to start playing Fireball games from afar, NOW go to charging down/back for Headstomps. But when he moves in, you seriously should never be charging up for a Special move ever. And without the Knee Bash traps, Bison has a way better chance of beating O.Ken than N.Ken.

- James
http://jchensor.blogspot.com

[Pez_Man]

i came across this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKVjpAGnMTQ which explains when bison's torpedo will cross up or not
which until i saw this video i thought was random.

*edit* please note that this is if Dic is player 1.....if Dic is player 2 please reverse left corner for right corner and vice versa. thanks nohoho

when the opponent is in the left corner
Torpedo will not cross up but Scissor Kick will
But when they are on the Right corner: both Torpedo and Scissor kick will cross up
Ryu
Ken
Guile
Sim
Boxer
Claw
Bison


When these character are in the Left Corner: Torpedo will cross up but Scissor Kick won't.
When these characters are in the Right Corner: both will cross up
Honda
Fei Long
Zangief
Sagat

When these characters are on the Left or Right Corners:
Torpedo will cross up but the Scissor Kicks won't
Blanka
Dee Jay

When these Characters are in the Left corner:
torpedo will not cross up but Scissor Kicks will
When they are in the Right corner: neither will cross up.
Cammy
Chun Li

When he is in the left corner: Torpedo won't cross up but Scissor Kicks will
When he is in the right corner: Torpedo will cross up but Scissor kicks won't
Hawk

[nohoho]

The left right issues are reversed for the second player side.

That is: 2p Bison (life bar on the right) can cross up with a psycho crusher on the left side. He can't cross up on the right side.

That video is really well done. Kudos zazza! Make one for New Ken! ^_^

[fatboy]

Yeah that is GIGA-MSX's video... too good

[SweetJohnnyV]

Yeah, great vid Giga! I don't suppose there's a higher-res version i could download somewhere is there?

[GIGA-MSX]

THX guys and THX to pez man for posting it, i was in 2 minds of doing it

If you know a site where i can upload it too i will go ahead and do it.

[King Of Bums]

anyone know a good and consistent way of comboing the super (besides the anti air). And if you do, put down the entire input instead of something like st. short cr. forward xx super.

[Gipson]

i would love to learn CE bison:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXJmvbnzIqI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mrwze30rHGA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jn1U0WKjvBM

range, power, easy to combo/dizzy...dangerous stuff.

[DancingMonkay]

yah, I was actually trying to get info/strats for CE bison. I don't know his combos that well...can you correct me if I'm wrong?

mk scissor kick, d.mp, s.mk?
scissor kick, s.mk?

I would really appreciate combos and lockdowns...

I know that you can scissor kick, s.mp, s.mk, s.mk(whiff), then scissor kick into combo a whiffed attack, i think >.<

EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ6c_Fj0aY4

anyone know the command inputs for this combo?

[DancingMonkay]

can anyone help w/ CE bison?

[nohoho]

There's a thread elsewhere on SRK for talking about Hyper Street Fighter 2/Anniversary Edition
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=71172


Don't mention CE Bison anymore in the SSF2T sub-form, mmkay?

[ToyRobotTerror]

Anyone want to fill in the matchups on the wiki. I'm starting to play st seriously and i need to know pretty much all match ups. If someone would take the time i would be most grateful.

[ToyRobotTerror]

So what to do against blanka? Especially on wake up since vertical ball beats all cross up attempts?

[ThisGuileKillYa]

Yeah I'm also curious about the matchup vs Blanka. Tho on his wakeup that's not too hard. If vertical ball is messing with your plans, just bait and punish it.

What I'm having trouble with is dealing with the jumping short into bite stuff. When I play my brother I can keep decent control of the match until he lands that one bite and then keeps them coming with the jumping ticks. A quick jump straight up short can repel it some of the time, but the whole scheme is hard to shake.

Any ideas on thie situation and the matchup in general?

[nohoho]

Ok I typed up a little Bison vs. Blanka.

The most important thing is to sort out your anti-air. Bison's primary air defense is going air-to-air: climbing jump strong, vertical jump rh/strong, escaping jump rh, etc. This isn't his only option, however - two other choices to keep in mind:
1) crouching fierce. If Blanka is eager to win an air-to-air clash with his jumping jab or short you can generally shut him down with this ground attack. You need a feel for the spacing and a read on your opponent, but crouching fierce is a good back-up anti-air.

2) run away. Psycho crusher underneath him as he jumps in. Or, if he's trying to start a cross-up short trap use a slide kick to sneak away.


In a ground battle standing medium kick is ok. Keep backing up - it's good to have a quick trigger finger on the scissor kicks and psycho crushers to catch him doing a slide punch or crouching roundhouse.

Like TRT says, cross up medium kick loses to reversal vertical ball. You can beat that ball from the front though. The jump kick has to be a little bit high (i.e. a shade later than "well timed") to avoid a trade.

Fierce psycho crusher seems to be a decent option. Blanka can block and counter with a crouching fierce but in my experience it's a little random. If you do one psycho crusher and he misses then another and he hits, the 6 ticks of life from the blocked crushers will add up to more damage than the one fierce punch.

[ThisGuileKillYa]

Earlier in this thread I had posted some rudimentary questions about the Devils Reverse (DR for typing ease). Since then I've been playing and practicing and reading and watching now I feel my use of DR has matured and improved.

However... my new experiences have brought about some new questions. Hopefully this can spark some discussion about how you guys are utilizing this bad ass move, and how top players are utilizing it (for anyone who knows to explain.. Chen? Zass? nohoho? NKI? [Hey NKI, someone seemingly reliable once told me Bison was your 2ndary after Chun... if that's true why aren't you all over this thread? He said you were really good with the crusher-in-the-corner-corpse-hop-crossover...say that 3 times fast] ).

One thing I noticed is that the strength of the punch button seems to dictate(no pun intended) the height of the initial flight. Unless this was some other variable at work and the buttons I used were coincidental. But it seemed to be so. it seems to me that the high one might be prefered when flying across the screen safely, but the lower one might be good for a (relatively) quick crossup. But then maybe hes too vulnerable close to the ground? This discovery has made me once again clueless about the DR, and I'm never sure which button to use. I think I had been using strong before when I didn't know it mattered, just for ease.

Now my DR-noob approach has pretty much been to:

a.) do the up-torward version after a fireball or triple strong juggle (as the YBH tech's said to do) or any other time I have the oppurtunity to try a crossup. Sometimes it seems to work beautifully, and other times it seems to fly me too far back towards my original direction and either un-crosses up or sometimes outright whiffs. Sometimes I'll also intentionally do this, pulling back, as a fake.

or b.) do the up-back one to build meter and make it look like I'm gonna fly around and do something. But the more I DR, the less use I see for this up-back version, especially in light of everyone saying Bison wants to advance.

So I guess, in a nutshell, I'm looking for anyone to explain specifically any of their more effective setups and/or attack tactics, or those of top Dictaster players. Which button are you/they using? Upback, upfwd, up? How far in that direction do you/they go before hitting P if at all? Then where are you/they ideally guiding him?

I feel pretty strong in my use of the Head Stomp, so when that discussion rolls around I'd be happy to contribute some of my "and you are...?"-level tricks with it, but when it comes to DR, I now love it and see it's importance. But now that I know a lot more about it, I'm a whole new special kind of clueless. :)

Thanx!

[denki]

Anyone know the exactly number of frames that require the charge of psycocrusher or any other "tame" tecnic?

[BKB]

I was wondering why this situation happens and how I can prevent it.

I'm Dictator and the opponent is a projectile thrower. We're between 1/2 screen and full screen apart. I am crouching, anticipating a fireball. They throw one, so I immediately do a headstomp as punishment. To my surprise, Bison just flies over them and lands behind them! Why am I not stomping?? Seems like a perfect time for a stomp to teach them that fireballs arent safe. no? I've tried this with the up and up/fwd stomps and both do this. What gives? thanks in advance.


A little clarification on this would be nice.

Getting the no-hit headstomp in the situation it was DESIGNED for, drives me fucking bananas.

I do the same motion everytime, and everytime it hits, EXCEPT when they're throwing a FB. what gives.

Does anyone know how to do the super high no-hit headstomp on purpose? The one where you just soar into the opposite upper corner? Would be awesome for getting out of corners.

[denki]

I think is not possible with the head stomp but u can get a similar effect (is a less high jump) with a DR pointing up-away (to behind the opponent).

[ShinVega]

[QUOTE=BKB;4481510]A little clarification on this would be nice.

Getting the no-hit headstomp in the situation it was DESIGNED for, drives me fucking bananas.

I do the same motion everytime, and everytime it hits, EXCEPT when they're throwing a FB. what gives.

Does anyone know how to do the super high no-hit headstomp on purpose? The one where you just soar into the opposite upper corner? Would be awesome for getting out of corners.[/QUOTE

If you perform the headstomp before the opp. goes into recovery frames then the headstomp will hit. Once the opp. starts to recover the headstomp won't hit because the headstomp is designed to hit on top of the hit box (I'm assuming this based on tests performed below); therefore, if the fireball has come out and the opp. goes into recovery the cpu doesn't "see" the opp. it misses. I used are the following situations to test my theory:

1. Jump up with no attack; if you perform the headstomp before the opp. starts to descend the headstomp will hit, if the opp. starts to go into falling frames the headstomp misses.

2. Jump with attack (ex. jab) the headstomp will hit as long as the opp. doesn't start to fall.

3. Use claw and perform wall dive; as long as you attack before claw starts to fall (after hitting wall, obviously if you don't vega won't hit the wall and the headstomp misses). If claw starts to descend at all the headstomp misses.

4. Perform srk (any strength), headstomp will hit (depending on hit box and frame you perform headstomp the hs will hit opp or opp hits you or both). If opp. goes into falling frames headstomp misses.

Basically depending on your reaction time you should hit with the headstomp if you perform it as soon as possible (very difficult at full screen). I'll perform more tests tomorrow to make sure I cover all the bases.

[denki]

This is a good explanation however i think that to try to do the head stomp high jump is a little bit dangerous and i prefer to go to the no attack devil reverse.

[orochizoolander]

I just started to use ST bison on more then a casual level so while i'm suire i'l find all the general strats here (especially the OP) n on the wiki i would very much appreciate if someone posted a matchup chart or breakdown of the matchups for ST bison.

EDIT: can't find any vids of high level ST bison so any links would help.

[Mizuki]

Theres tons of vids of Bison...
Just look through here. http://www.youtube.com/user/superturbor

[orochizoolander]

Thx.

[kid_krush]

boxer vs dictator what does bison have to stop boxer from rushing in and how is this match up fof dic would you guys consider dis to simalar to guile without sonic booms feel free to comment no negative shit for all you haters out there

[Professor Jones]

You have to stop him before his punch comes out. Depending on the distance, you can use cr. mk, standing mk/ hk and scissors. Sometimes it's better to just block. The damage on the rush punch is quite big and it knocks you down, which is an especially bad situation for Dictator because of his lack of a decent reversal.

[denki]

just 1 thing to add to the vs blanka match up: when you use the fierce psycho crusher be sure that you can go through and continue on the other part of the stage to avoid a biting throw and have the possibility of eventually start again with another crusher when the enemy is still in the center of the stage.


Merry Christmas to all!

[Ehonda]

I was just reading through this thread and noticed that it was stated that Bisons jab crusher stops Hondas headbutts ...No it does not! its all a timing issue, its only that most Honda users do not see the jab crusher coming, which is why it always seems to hit the jab headbutt. If Honda waits just a little longer he can hit it. example

Opening Rd. Bison does J.Psycho Crusher; Honda attempts JHB. The jab HB prolly wont work b/c Honda is anticipating a F crusher so Honda reacts a split second to early. But if Honda reacts a little later it will hit the J crusher.

[denki]

no,if both special moves hit in their hitting frames the crusher win, u can also stop the honda super special in that way, i tested this at the game center. It is a question of hitting and non hitting frames of the jab crusher: you lose if the honda head hits you when you are in the first 18non hitting frame of the jab crusher (even if the first 3 frames are of invincibility so you can be hitten only for 15 frames). The same if the head hits you when you are in the final 16 non hitting frames of the jab crusher.

[Ehonda]

Distance plays a big factor in this situation. If both Honda & Bison are far away from each other, it really does not matter. Its only when in close does this matter. Perfect Timing By Honda hits Bison everytime out of any crusher. but that is not realistic.

[denki]

Yes this is an application of what i was saying about hitting frames: the honda headbutt has a initial non hitting frames of 8,11,6 (jab,strong,fierce) and also in this frames is invicible so if both start close headbutt win the crusher because hits when the crusher is still in non hitting frames.
If you are not close u can do the same waiting and hitting the crusher when i am in my final 16 non hitting frames. It requires good timing but is possible.
Fortunatly for us the headbutt has a long final non hitting frames where i can do what i want.

[ParryPerson.]

Is LP Crusher safe on block versus some chars or all?

[denki]

Do you mean when they parry the low crusher?

[ParryPerson.]

Do you mean when they parry the low crusher?

:confused:

[lftrpllr]

Is LP Crusher safe on block versus some chars or all?

I think it's safe versus most characters. I know Zangief can piledrive it from most distances after he blocks the 2 hits. I don't think Honda and T.Hawk have the range to grab you. The only other move I can think that may be fast enough to punish it is Blanka's ball, but I haven't tested it.

-wes

[ParryPerson.]

I think it's safe versus most characters. I know Zangief can piledrive it from most distances after he blocks the 2 hits. I don't think Honda and T.Hawk have the range to grab you. The only other move I can think that may be fast enough to punish it is Blanka's ball, but I haven't tested it.

-wes

Yeah I've been messing with it, and gief can't SPD it at the very right distance but most times he can, blanka ball can punish it on block, but honda and hawk can't do jack about it.

[lftrpllr]

There are some ways to cross up with the Devil's reverse but I'm not really sure how to set them up. I think the hit box is wierd enough on that move so you can actually hit your opponent with your shoulder of your non-expected arm. In general, if you have the ability to cross up your opponent, yuo should really go for the: jumping forward kick, standing shrt kick x 2, low forward xx fierce crushaa for a dizzy (and a win). I use the Devil's reverse to bait out moves, build meter and empty jump throw. If you do the Devil's reverse and do nothing, it works at a sort of low jump where you can throw the second your toes touch the ground. It works as a good surprise tactic from time-to-time and you throw them so fast it almost looks like an airthrow.

You can also get the same airthrow effect after your opponent locks the head stomp and you use the punch button follow up to steer yourself near your opponent (preferrably behind them). I played an dictator player at More in Japan that used this "air throw" tactic with great efficiency.

Bison's Psycho Chrushaa corner cross up works like this. Knock down your opponent (throw, scissor kick, etc.), do a roundhouse kick slide to get near them and charge back at the same time, as they get up do a fierce PC and continue to hold towards (which will now start your charge the on the other side), now do standing short x 2, low forward xx fierce PC to your opponent's back.

-wes



Earlier in this thread I had posted some rudimentary questions about the Devils Reverse (DR for typing ease). Since then I've been playing and practicing and reading and watching now I feel my use of DR has matured and improved.

However... my new experiences have brought about some new questions. Hopefully this can spark some discussion about how you guys are utilizing this bad ass move, and how top players are utilizing it (for anyone who knows to explain.. Chen? Zass? nohoho? NKI? [Hey NKI, someone seemingly reliable once told me Bison was your 2ndary after Chun... if that's true why aren't you all over this thread? He said you were really good with the crusher-in-the-corner-corpse-hop-crossover...say that 3 times fast] ).

One thing I noticed is that the strength of the punch button seems to dictate(no pun intended) the height of the initial flight. Unless this was some other variable at work and the buttons I used were coincidental. But it seemed to be so. it seems to me that the high one might be prefered when flying across the screen safely, but the lower one might be good for a (relatively) quick crossup. But then maybe hes too vulnerable close to the ground? This discovery has made me once again clueless about the DR, and I'm never sure which button to use. I think I had been using strong before when I didn't know it mattered, just for ease.

Now my DR-noob approach has pretty much been to:

a.) do the up-torward version after a fireball or triple strong juggle (as the YBH tech's said to do) or any other time I have the oppurtunity to try a crossup. Sometimes it seems to work beautifully, and other times it seems to fly me too far back towards my original direction and either un-crosses up or sometimes outright whiffs. Sometimes I'll also intentionally do this, pulling back, as a fake.

or b.) do the up-back one to build meter and make it look like I'm gonna fly around and do something. But the more I DR, the less use I see for this up-back version, especially in light of everyone saying Bison wants to advance.

So I guess, in a nutshell, I'm looking for anyone to explain specifically any of their more effective setups and/or attack tactics, or those of top Dictaster players. Which button are you/they using? Upback, upfwd, up? How far in that direction do you/they go before hitting P if at all? Then where are you/they ideally guiding him?

I feel pretty strong in my use of the Head Stomp, so when that discussion rolls around I'd be happy to contribute some of my "and you are...?"-level tricks with it, but when it comes to DR, I now love it and see it's importance. But now that I know a lot more about it, I'm a whole new special kind of clueless. :)

Thanx!

[ParryPerson.]

For me, controlling the DR to actually HIT them on their wake up seems kinda hard, and I never see yuuvega doing this ever. Anyone got any tips?

[Professor Jones]

I was just reading through this thread and noticed that it was stated that Bisons jab crusher stops Hondas headbutts ...No it does not! its all a timing issue, its only that most Honda users do not see the jab crusher coming, which is why it always seems to hit the jab headbutt. If Honda waits just a little longer he can hit it.

You are absolutely right. But keep in mind that a Psycho Crusher will beat honda's headbutts (super included) cleanly if it hits after the invincible frames. I personally use it a lot against scrubby hondas who headbutt constantly and it works like a charm. Against intelligent players you don't have much occasions to use the psycho crusher for that.

[ShinVega]

For me, controlling the DR to actually HIT them on their wake up seems kinda hard, and I never see yuuvega doing this ever. Anyone got any tips?

Use the properties of the DR to buy yourself more time to prepare for your attempt at a crossup. You have a lot of control while performing the DR; just learn how to control it. Once you get the DR timing down performing the DR as a meaty will become much easier. Take into account the size of the hitbox. Example: claw can do the same with his wall dive; however, his is easier because the hit box is much larger. IMO use it sparingly, if at all.

[ejdge]

Can Dic get out of tick throws without a super?

[denki]

1) with a reversal throw if the other character has a throw range as or less than your

2) with a knee press if the other player has a very bad timing

3) you can try with a jab crusher because has the first 3 frames of invicibility but is quite impossible.

The best one and the only one if u dont have the special is a reversal throw, but it is very difficult because you have only 1 frame to do.

[ShinVega]

Can Dic get out of tick throws without a super?

The best way IMO is LP Psycho Crusher. It only has 3 frames of invincibility, but it lifts Dic off the ground. Example: Gief crosses up with body splash and goes for SPD; perform the P.C. as a reversal (as soon as Gief lands on the first frame). This counters the SPD attempt.

Note: you'll have to swap the direction you're charging right as Gief crosses over you (fairly difficult).

[denki]

The lp crusher can function but always make me think a lot because, yes u can perform as a reversal and has 3 frames of invincibility but doesnt lift until 12th frame so you have 9 frames where u can be grabbed from zangief that after the body splash that is a air attack dont have recovery frame and also dont have start up frames for the spd because is a throw.

I think this solution is very difficult and nearly impossible if the zangief player has a perfect timing.

[fatboy]

The lp crusher can function but always make me think a lot because, yes u can perform as a reversal and has 3 frames of invincibility but doesnt lift until 12th frame so you have 9 frames where u can be grabbed from zangief that after the body splash that is a air attack dont have recovery frame and also dont have start up frames for the spd because is a throw.

I think this solution is very difficult and nearly impossible if the zangief player has a perfect timing.

Exactly, I was thinking this myself.

I could be worng on this... Wouldn't be the first time....

Take a regular kick throw character. Lets say Chun doing St. Strong> Strong tick throw.

The game option selects the throw/ normal move.

If the input for the throw is input on the first frame in the LP PC start up, during those 3 inv. frames, the normal up close strong would come out, (the game has no missed frames) and would then hit on it's 4th frame in the remainder of Dic's start up; koncking him out of the PC.

Thoughts?

[mad possum]

Exactly, I was thinking this myself.

I could be worng on this... Wouldn't be the first time....

Take a regular kick throw character. Lets say Chun doing St. Strong> Strong tick throw.

The game option selects the throw/ normal move.

If the input for the throw is input on the first frame in the LP PC start up, during those 3 inv. frames, the normal up close strong would come out, (the game has no missed frames) and would then hit on it's 4th frame in the remainder of Dic's start up; koncking him out of the PC.

Thoughts?

I think your right Fatboy. I don't think the jab PC hits until later than 4 frames. Dic's best bet is a reversal throw. If the opponent has a farther throw range than you and is out of your range than all you can do is hope they screw up (if you don't have Super).

I've heard people talk about the jab PC but really your better off trying a fast normal or Scissor Kick. There is only 3 frames of invc., it doesn't hit until the later frames and he stays on the ground for more than enough time to get thrown, jab PC DOES NOT WORK (unless opponent completely screws his tick throw).

[ShinVega]

Good Point(s).

The logical approach is to use a Scissor kick (they all have 8 start up frames, but Dic "actually" lifts off the ground after the first 3).

Here's the frame data from YBH in case anyone would like to know: LP PC: 18, 32, 16 (first 3 frames are invincible). Scissor Kick: 8, 18, 10 (11, and 12 recovery frames, respectively for Foward and RH) Dic lifts off ground immediately, but the game only counts it after the first 3 (i.e. Gief can still throw you on first three frames).

[ejdge]

How do you do Dic's backwards j.forward overhead? I've seen Taira do it a ton yet I can't get the timing down. Does it only work on specific characters?

[denki]

At last all capcom classic olympic in Kyoto i have also seen yuuvega doing this and looking at his hands i have seen that he jumps, then press forward and back quite together. This requires times and many experience.

[ParryPerson.]

How do you do Dic's backwards j.forward overhead? I've seen Taira do it a ton yet I can't get the timing down. Does it only work on specific characters?

It works on most people and some in the corner I believe, not sure.

You just jump forward and hit mk. Unless I'm misunderstanding you.

[ejdge]

At last all capcom classic olympic in Kyoto i have also seen yuuvega doing this and looking at his hands i have seen that he jumps, then press forward and back quite together. This requires times and many experience.

So I hit forward then back really fast?

Yeah I'm not talking about the normal jumping mk. Here's what I'm talking about
http://youtube.com/watch?v=P9vduowH0i4

It's the first thing he does to the Zangief player once he knocks him down.

[denki]

when yuuvega was doing that i was just some steps behind him and from what i have seen, from near he was jumping and that hit back and forward. He was able to hit very near to the ground. However yuuvega is yuuvega...my opinion is that the key is to start from very near, infact also in ur video i see before a meaty overkick. However i am testing this me too just in this days. If i have some news i will post.

[ShinVega]

:tup:How do you do Dic's backwards j.forward overhead? I've seen Taira do it a ton yet I can't get the timing down. Does it only work on specific characters?

This is exactly how u can do it (1 way might be others). Yuuvega is incorporating a method I use to escape quickly with ken's reverse juice kick. The motion is to start at down roll your finger to back+foward Kick, then quickly up/twds. Yes, you press up/twds your opp. this "slings" you away in the opp. direction. I plan on doing more testing on why this works like this. I wonder about a lot of things in ST like guile's actual input, why some moves don't requires entire motion (360), and how inputs like the above work. When I'm done I'll be sure to post unless someone has already explained this phenomenon.

This method works 10/10 times for me and is easy/safe (IMO).

[fatboy]

:tup:

. The motion is to start at down roll your finger to back+foward, then quickly up/twds. Yes, you press up/twds your opp. this "slings" you away in the opp. direction. ...

Forward Kick? Just to be clear. I am not a Vega player. Took me a few reads to figure it out.:sweat:

PS. Thanks BTW.
PPS. Does method work with Chun's mk stomp as well?

[ShinVega]

I tried performing chun's mk stomp, um...I wasn't able to do it consistently b/c you have to hit dn+mK. I did the following motion: dn/away, up/twd, dn+mk. This is extrememly difficult IMO. Thanks for the correction, I meant Foward Kick, I never put foward or backward in a motion, confusing depending on the side; I always put towards or away.

[denki]

ok men, here we are, i tested the special overhead, it function against: Blanka, Zangief, Guile, Dhalsim, Bison (boxer) and Sagat.

If someone have seen a video where it function against other character post here.

[ParryPerson.]

Is there any use for some things I noticed, mainly meaty cr.mk st.lk xx headstomp and I noticed you can get a frame or 2 of cr.rh out before scissors.

any use?

[Sosage]

This may be a dumb question, but I was playing against a Chun-Li recently and her lightning legs were fucking me over. Knee Press and Psycho Crusher were inconsistent in breaking through. I take it there are some specific frames in the lightning leg animation that the Psycho Crusher/Knee Press will beat out?

Any advice on how to deal with this match up overall? I was getting ran over pretty hard.

[denki]

Abuse of jumping back medium punches for defence, j.forward C3 when she is discending a jumb, standing rh/forward against adoken or hp from distance. Attention in antiair attack u need a good timing, for antiair attacks abuse of also jumping straight rh.
And then u can also use the hover cross up when she makes an ukemi even if she is not in the corner. A really short distance s.C1 combo or throw. J
ump in combo of j.forward rh - crouching forward xx psycho crusher.
Head press win over upperkicks.
Psycho crusher win against lighting legs if u are in the hitting frames and she is not, however the kicks is a seguence of hitting and non hitting frames so better if u dont use it, or use at the end when she is recovering.

[Sosage]

Thanks for the info Denki. :woot:

[Kyouya]

Hello! I started to play Dic, and he is pretty funny!! But i have problems connecting his j.mk, s.lk, c.mk --> sissor, any tips with the timming? or this combo only works with specific characters? :wonder:

Gg gL & hF!!!

[Airthrow]

Have you tried just doing st. lk, then cr. mk then scissors, then adding the jump in later?

Charge d/b to simulate charging in mid-air, then stand up and hold back and press lk quickly, then d/b+mk>scissors.

If you're jumping in, as soon as you leave the ground, hold back...

[ParryPerson.]

also, you have to make sure and press forward only for the scissors, not just down-forward.

[Kyouya]

Thanks for the tips guys!!! :tup:

Have you tried just doing st. lk, then cr. mk then scissors, then adding the jump in later?

Charge d/b to simulate charging in mid-air, then stand up and hold back and press lk quickly, then d/b+mk>scissors.

If you're jumping in, as soon as you leave the ground, hold back...

Ya, i need to dominate the ground combo first, then as you say, add the jump kick, however i think s.lk is too fast for my newbie fingers :sweat:

Again, thank you very much!!! :wgrin:

[epsilon_]

you need to do the s.lk c.mk link pretty quickly btw.

practice that and you should have no problem.

[Kyouya]

Which is best meaty attack of dictator? his c.mk, or have any other? and last question :sweat:, with wich characters works better?

Thanks :tup:

[ParryPerson.]

Which is best meaty attack of dictator? his c.mk, or have any other? and last question :sweat:, with wich characters works better?

Thanks :tup:

cr.mk is his best meaty.

[JubeiNinja69]

what's the best way to escape bison's trap when you're in the corner?

[Sosage]

Thanks for the tips guys!!! :tup:



Ya, i need to dominate the ground combo first, then as you say, add the jump kick, however i think s.lk is too fast for my newbie fingers :sweat:

Again, thank you very much!!! :wgrin:

I've noticed that if you're in deep enough, you can get in 2 s.lk and then scissor. It may leave a bigger gap for escape/reversal, but you can also do s.lk, s.mk into scissor. *shrug* Just some options to try out when trying to find a corner trap. =P

[Kyouya]

what's the best way to escape bison's trap when you're in the corner?

Obviously, it depends on your character. If the match is Bison vs Bison, you have no escape, unless you already have super. If your opponent make a mistake like a later scissor, or also a scissor too close, u can do a fierce psycho/reversal throw/jump, i think these are the only ways to escape. I do not know if a jab or short can also work.

I catch a lot of Bison players doing that corner trap :smile:

[ilikemacaroni707]

I was wondering if anyone could help me vs chun :wasted: I seriously just keep getting shut down.

[holy-diver]

There is a way to pressure zangief?? He throws me all day long...

[M.S.G.]

NEVER, I REPEAT NEVER let him corner you. if that happens he'll siberian splash you all day long and the only way to escape is by using your super.

the strategy i find useful against zangief is the poke and run method. s.mk(or RH) and c.mk are very good pokes against him. i also like to pressure with light scissors, s. mk repeat; or after that string you can do a backward jump mk. it works well as an instant overhead, and is a good option if the zangief you are playing is good at reversal 360's. the main thing to remember is not to let him get close and use that s.mk(RH) to keep your space. and dont use psycho crushers! well, i suppose that lp. version would be fine in place of lk. scissors.

oh, cross him up if you have the chance. zangief has a pretty wide hit box. though im not too sure which one is better to use. (MK or RH)?

[epsilon_]

if he lariats, slide.

[holy-diver]

Thanks a lot guys!!!!!!!:rock:
I've another two question since I'm a bit new to ST:
Where I have to use psycho crusher properly?
And in pressure is better mk scissor kick or hk scissor kick??:pray:

[M.S.G.]

mk and hk scissors are really punishable if blocked. for pressure use lk scissors. use mk or hk scissors in combos or links (i.e. c.mk > mk. scissors, this is a good punisher for whiffed dp's or flash kicks).

most nubes (including me when i started playing) will just do fierce psycho all day and then when the opponent blocks, nubes always go for the throw. this may have worked in CE but not ST.

i later found out that a blocked f.psycho gives you negative frames and your opponent has the advantage to throw or punish with a combo. if you mash punches after a blocked psycho, there is a slight chance you will be the one that throws (this is one of the random elements of ST). also if the fierce psycho goes all the through the blocking opponent, most characters can punish once bison is in front of them (i.e. free blanka c.fierce in bison's ass)

when playing bison play the poke (s.mk and s.hk) and pressure game (use the light versions of the specials when pressuring). don't rely on the fierce psycho.

[holy-diver]

mmm....But psycho crusher have some use anyway???? Or it can be used only to punish other char's special on reaction???
Thanks in advice.:smile::pleased:

[Kyouya]

Well i dont use so much the psycho i stick with scissor, but with psycho, u can punish blanka balls, when vega trying his wall jump and vega is to far of his corner, whiff strong/fierce dp's/boxer headbutts, and the most of missed aerial attacks.

But i suggest u to stick with the scissor, is dict main weapon :china:

[M.S.G.]

when using scissors use the light version, and s. mk is a great poke (imo one of his best moves). it can stuff out projectiles when timed and spaced correctly.

and i forgot to mention his throw. dict. is has a good reversal (wake-up) throw. probably his best reversal if you dont have your bar filled up (seriously, his reversal options suck). and the animation of his throw is long enough so you can change for a special and execute it once the opponent is thrown for additional pressure. i personally like to do head stomp or psycho reverse

dict. is also a good character to tick with and as a good number of throw setups. after i crossup with roundhouse s.lk>throw then follow up with a meaty slide if the throw is softened. and if they anticipate the throw, i do lk(3x)>scissors (or psycho). after the cross up i also like to do s.lk(2x),c.lk>scissors/psycho, just in case if my opponent blocks the s.lk's and doesn't expect the low.

holy-driver, look up taira and yuuvega on youtube. that's where i picked up on some tips on how to play dict.

[ShinVega]

NEVER, I REPEAT NEVER let him corner you. if that happens he'll siberian splash you all day long and the only way to escape is by using your super.
the strategy i find useful against zangief is the poke and run method. s.mk(or RH) and c.mk are very good pokes against him. the main thing to remember is not to let him get close and use that s.mk(RH) to keep your space. and dont use psycho crushers!

Actually, if he corners you just take one splash then reversal throw his cheap ass across the screen (trust me my friend loves to spin lariat and siberian splash all day). I really hate fighting this type of Gief because even though they know they're being lazy they always like to say, "We'll if it's the same move you should be able to do something about it," and you can, throw him then lock him down with the pokes MSG mentioned. Head stomp works wonders against him because his lariat won't catch it if you know how to control it (see my other posts) and his only other anti-air options aren't fast enough if your a quick thinker (setup with ground pokes & whiffs). Not tryin to Flame MSG good post btw.

[M.S.G.]

Actually, if he corners you just take one splash then reversal throw his cheap ass across the screen.

thanx, never thought to try that. ill see if it works when i play my roomie. i think (dont quote me on this though) that gief's siberian splash gives him plus frames on hit, making the reversal throw harder to pull off. but ill still try it and see what happens.

[COUM]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure he should have time to jump again before you'll even be able to throw him. Maybe you can jump strong the splash or close st.fierce it, but both are gonna be pretty damn hard to time if they even work...

[M.S.G.]

dict. + corner = not a good place to be

i dont know of anything he can do aside from reversal throw or super that can get him out of the corner. when dict. is cornered, im pretty sure gief can splash him all day, honda can c.lp, ocho throw, repeat (look up kusumondo v. yuuvega), ryu can lock him down with fb's, etc.

just remember when you are playing dict., don't corner yourself and pressure your opponent relentlessly. his best defense is his offense.

[holy-diver]

You are all awesome guys!!!!!!!
I've improved greatly my game!

But I have just another question..... I noticed that a lot of mind games, pressure strings etc work really well against human opponent, but when I have to fight the cpu at the hardest difficulty I'm easily raped. It's normale or I am the weaker Dic player in the world?

[M.S.G.]

don't judge your play on how you do against the cpu. the cpu can be a bitch sometimes, especilly the cpu in HSF2 AE. i normally have to resort to cheap AI exploits to win, and it doesn't even feel like im playing SF at all. ive seen cpu guile do 2 sb's in a row, while both were still on screen. not humanly possible. the only way to get better is to play real people, around your level or even alot better than you (that's how i learn).

and dont forget to look up taira and yuuvega on youtube. probably the best dictator players in the world.

[holy-diver]

I've seen yuuvega and he is ....marvelous!!!!!
But everytime I watch him I realize how much risks takes Bison to be played really well.

It's just
one error= corner= certain death for what I've learned 'til now.

[vieja escuela]

I usually see in Dic top players videos, an intense use of the slide (down hk), especially after a knocking down of the opponent.

Since the slide is considered a risky option, I don't understand exactly its advantage with the other player on the ground.

Is it a method to cross-up or just a way to get closer to the other player at his standing up?

[Airthrow]

It's a way of getting closer to the opponent while charging all of his moves so they can punish on wakeup.

[vieja escuela]

It's a way of getting closer to the opponent while charging all of his moves so they can punish on wakeup.

Thx.

[ilikemacaroni707]

I'm feelin no love in this thread Everyone just ignored my question about chun. :crybaby: Sooo... can anyone help me with facing chun? Everytime I face a decent chun user I get shut down.

[M.S.G.]

I won't lie to you dude. Dic is a bad match up against Chun. I think that's why no one has responded to this tread in while cuz they don't know what do do against her either. lol. I myself don't know of a strategy that will work all the time but I will do my best:

Remember with Dic, your best defense is your offense. Pressure her with s.mk and l.scissors and throw when she's turtling. don't do psychos cuz her f.s.strong beats it out cleanly. and dont let her corner you, cuz his options to get out of the corner are pretty limited (super - if you have the bar, or reverse throw which is hard to time). when dic is cornered chun can just pressure with strong and throw. Muteki is quite good at this.

If the ground game fails, take to the air. This is where I think Dic has an advantage over chun. his j/f. strong, strong is really good as well as j/f. mk. They have good priority and will win out against most of jump attacks (j/f mk and neutral j.roundhouse are the only attacks of hers you should really worry about). I tend to use strong, strong more as I find it more consistent. neutral jump roundhouse is a good anti air if Chun does an obvious jump in. Using headstomps and the psycho reverse are also good tools for mindgames. The headstomp has decent priority and the psycho reverse is good for faking an attack while building meter at the some time. After I land a headstomp, I tend to retreat instead of trying to cross her up becasue her throw and her strong are just that scary. Plus it gives me more time to analyze wheter I should pressure on the ground or jump again.

All in all, this a bad matchup for Dic and you really have to play smart. My strategy is based on experience as well as watching yuuvega and taira vids. I know I missed alot of stuff on this matchup so feel free to expound on this, becuase I need help on this matchup as well. Chun is just that good!

[ilikemacaroni707]

thx for the help dude. I somewhat figured out half of the stuff you told me from experience. But man Chun is just.... I just wanna :l::lk::lk::db::mk::r::hp: her up the butt. :annoy:

[kmc]

I agree w/ MSG. Dic vs Chun hard match. Even j.strong loses to Chun's early j.short/forward. Chun can jump more as her wish because Dic has no effective ground anti-air against, and even if her jump ins are read Dic has not enough space control to do air-to-air. And bitch has a fireball to stop half of the sci-kicks....(SBO 07 HSF2 final)

[SiMan]

Hey all,

i'm a real beginner w/ ST and i've decided to play bison. I've started to grasp the basics with him, but i still don't understand the mechanics behind the devil reverse. It's not so much the followup punch attack you can do from it, but more the range of the initial part of the move.
Like is it the direction of the up+punch (ie. up+f, up, up+b) that controls the distance of the move, or the strength of the punch used?
Also, does the position of the opponent affect the way bison travels with this, or is the opponent's position not a factor?
I'm only really using it atm to build meter, and am relying more on the headstomp in other situations because i find it easier to control. What are the major uses for the devil reverse anyway? Guess if i was able to control it better i could understand its uses more.

Cheers in advance. I read earlier posts in this thread but i still couldn't understand it.

[ilikemacaroni707]

Hey all,

i'm a real beginner w/ ST and i've decided to play bison. I've started to grasp the basics with him, but i still don't understand the mechanics behind the devil reverse. It's not so much the followup punch attack you can do from it, but more the range of the initial part of the move.
Like is it the direction of the up+punch (ie. up+f, up, up+b) that controls the distance of the move, or the strength of the punch used?
Also, does the position of the opponent affect the way bison travels with this, or is the opponent's position not a factor?
I'm only really using it atm to build meter, and am relying more on the headstomp in other situations because i find it easier to control. What are the major uses for the devil reverse anyway? Guess if i was able to control it better i could understand its uses more.

Cheers in advance. I read earlier posts in this thread but i still couldn't understand it.]

Sometimes i use it to cross up. Like if you hop and go behind them, then press punch, and then make dictator go back in front. It may or may not confuse them to block the wrong way. But hey you get chip damage, and meter if you don't. If you've developed your opponent to expect a stomp after knockdown or something, you could throw in a devils reverse to mix it up. I haven't seen anyone else do this yet but, versus certain characters like guile, if i KNOW they gonna throw out a sonic boom/fireball then I'll use the hop from devils reverse to get into the corner or next to them. Usually for some odd reason players never expect this and its a field day for throwing or combos since you got them in the corner. Just don't rely on it too much since you can get hit out of it kinda easily. But yeah can someone explain when dictator hops REALLY high in the air? I could never figure out why that happens.

[ShinVega]

I'll try and explain the mechanics of Devil Reverse [DR] and (on a lesser note) Head Stomp [HS]. The DR has two parts: the first part is the execution of the "Devil Jump done by inputting [chrge. dn (55 frames), Up+P]." That is the basic way to execute the first part. Here's the possibilities (after charging down obviously): the height & direction of the jump (speed) is determined by..... the direction you input [up/twds + P will yield a very low, extremely fast hyperbola in their direction, while up/away + P will cause dic to move slightly away from the opp.] The second part of the DR the Reverse part is executed by pressing punch again (this is where the strength of the punch will make a big difference) at some point in the air after executing the Devil Jump. The greater strength of the punch used the larger the reverse (dic makes a shape closely resembling a circle), however, the recovery time increases with each by 2 frames starting with 11 for jab. The DR also works off what the opp. does; as long as the opp. doesn't execute a move before you finish the input for the Devil Jump, it's trajectory won't be altered; however, if the opp. let's say jumps in place, depending on the kind of Devil Jump you performed, your Devil Jump will be altered [for the ex. if you had input Up/Twds+Fierce you will get a large hyperbola b/c the processor/engine will be set to have you going a certain height over your opp. at an instantaneous point in time (i.e. the game only sees the fighters [no ground for move height measurements] this is why you get some of the "crazyness" people talk about, and it's very useful to know how to access this "crazyness" feature at anytime so practice)]. Deep Breath..... The HS works pretty much in the same way but is far more useful; due to speed, instant hit on fireball reversals (easy to do), combo possibilities, cross up possibilities, and many other awsome factors :wgrin: I use HS all the time and confuse a lot of people with HS tricks and wicked crosses/mix-ups. Definately learn to use both PERFECTLY i.e. this information is mostly self taught with help from friends and math, and of course the YBH; and you'll benefit most by just practicing and playing against good dic players. If anyone sees anything wrong with anything I said here please let me know, or just post corrections.
Note: The DR is useful but only for tricks and attempts to confuse opp. can be used offensively, but I wouldn't recommend it [IMO]

NOTE: You can alter direction with any "air" move in the game by holding towards or away after each individual input.

[SiMan]

Thanks for the replay ShinVega, it was exactly the info i needed!

I have found the headstomp alot easier and more straightforward to use, but my use with it is still very basic...

...*goes and watches more YuuVega and Taira matches*...

[UltraDavid]

I've been trying to pick up Dictator lately. He's such a weird character, but also really interesting.

One trick I've had pretty good success with recently is when you're near your opponent as they're waking up, you can do headstomp on most characters without fear of getting hit because its hitbox is so strong, so they'll know to just try and block it. But you can mix that up with neutral-up devil's jump (without doing the reverse part) so that when they're looking to block a headstomp, you instead very quickly land right to them and throw them before they realize what's going on.

Another trick I've been using also has to do with the headstomp. As your opponent is waking up, you often want to do crouching forward, crouching forward on them, and if they mess up a throw or don't block for whatever reason, you cancel into scissor kicks for big damage and a possible dizzy. Everyone knows this, so everyone's pretty well trained to block low on wakeup for two crouching forwards. One way to mix this up is to then walk forward a bit and throw, but another way is to cancel the first crouching forward into a quick headstomp for a fast little overhead.

One question about that situation, though. Sometimes it seems like the headstomp comes very fast, and other times it seems like Dic kinda hovers in the air a bit beforehand, giving the opponent time to block. I always input the command the same way, so why does this happen sometimes? Is it random? Is it based on my opponent's character, maybe?

[Sosage]

Check ShinVega's post...there was also a post earlier in this thread about the rules/properties of Dictators headstomp. Some of it has to do with the hitboxes of certain moves and how the headstomp will track and seak it out. Hitting fireballs with it, for example, is the headstomp seaking the opponent's hitbox during the fireball frames...as I understood it. Sometimes this weirdness will happen against DP's, where if done at a certain time the headstomp will just float over the dp, while when timed correctly the HS will hit the DP because of the hit box appearing at a specific point in the DP animation (or something like that...).

[Goryus]

I've been trying to pick up Dictator lately. He's such a weird character, but also really interesting.

One trick I've had pretty good success with recently is when you're near your opponent as they're waking up, you can do headstomp on most characters without fear of getting hit because its hitbox is so strong, so they'll know to just try and block it. But you can mix that up with neutral-up devil's jump (without doing the reverse part) so that when they're looking to block a headstomp, you instead very quickly land right to them and throw them before they realize what's going on.

Another trick I've been using also has to do with the headstomp. As your opponent is waking up, you often want to do crouching forward, crouching forward on them, and if they mess up a throw or don't block for whatever reason, you cancel into scissor kicks for big damage and a possible dizzy. Everyone knows this, so everyone's pretty well trained to block low on wakeup for two crouching forwards. One way to mix this up is to then walk forward a bit and throw, but another way is to cancel the first crouching forward into a quick headstomp for a fast little overhead.

One question about that situation, though. Sometimes it seems like the headstomp comes very fast, and other times it seems like Dic kinda hovers in the air a bit beforehand, giving the opponent time to block. I always input the command the same way, so why does this happen sometimes? Is it random? Is it based on my opponent's character, maybe?

Instant jumping mk is a great overhead, especially if it'll kill them.

[Ouroborus]

how exactly do you do bisons touch of death?

i'm playing ST bison in sf:ae and trying to do crossup mk, lk, lk, c.mk, hp psycho crusher.

the problem is getting the c.mk to connect as the 2 lks knock them back too far.

[UltraDavid]

I've been having problems with that too. Is it character-specific?

[UltraDavid]

Finally read through this whole thread, good stuff. Think I'm gonna start playing Dic as my 3rd guy now.

About getting tick thrown, obviously if the opponent is in your throw range (and only Sim, Honda, Gief, and Blanka have longer normal throw ranges) you wanna throw, but if you're not in range, your best bet is just to hold up (or up-back or up-toward) on the stick. Dictator gets airborne really fast (the fastest, maybe? seems like it, but does anyone have real data?), so this can actually be possible if your opponent messes up. Let's say your opponent goes for tick throw, but does the actual throw too late. Doing scissor kicks isn't a good idea because while you'll get off the ground in about the same amount of time you would with just jumping, the scissors will probably get beaten by whatever normal move your opponent tried to throw with. If your opponent didn't throw and went for a dragon punch/super (etc) instead, scissors will lose to that cleanly, and if your opponent just did a tick and no move after, scissors will get blocked and your opponent will get a free whatever-he-wants because you did an unsafe move at an unsafe range. So, yeah, if you get ticked from outside your throw range, just hold up-back.

[Airthrow]

how exactly do you do bisons touch of death?

i'm playing ST bison in sf:ae and trying to do crossup mk, lk, lk, c.mk, hp psycho crusher.

the problem is getting the c.mk to connect as the 2 lks knock them back too far.

I do j. hk, st. lk cr. mk and then scissors and it does 50%+ and dizzies everytime.

[ShinVega]

Finally read through this whole thread, good stuff. Think I'm gonna start playing Dic as my 3rd guy now.

About getting tick thrown, obviously if the opponent is in your throw range (and only Sim, Honda, Gief, and Blanka have longer normal throw ranges) you wanna throw, but if you're not in range, your best bet is just to hold up (or up-back or up-toward) on the stick. Dictator gets airborne really fast (the fastest, maybe? seems like it, but does anyone have real data?),

Good advice for getting out of tick attempts. I just try to stay away from corners and getting locked down.

Here's the data for walking speed from T.Akiba's site (http://nki.combovideos.com/data.html#walking):

Fastest: Claw
2nd: Chun, Fei, and Dic

I can only "guess" that the walking speeds might be related to movement in any direction; therefore, I would assume that the walking speeds can be directly correlated to jumping speed (this is only an assumption). Which is not all that outlandish an idea since the programmers must have put in a speed/vector value for direction in all four coordinates [x,y,-x,-y] respective of the direction the player is facing of course]. Does this mean some players crouch faster than others, I think so, the game engine must have values/algorithms for every movement/action. So in conclusion, Dic does jump much faster than the other characters (according to the data from T.Akiba's website and the assumptions I made). I tested it on GGPOnfba by inputting the same controls for both 1st and 2nd player, selected diff. characters and Dic; then I just held up and waited for round to start. Sure enough dic jumped faster than most characters, Chun jumped slightly faster than Dic, and a little higher. I found out something else interesting, the speed of the jump also indicates the height of the jump (in SOME cases ex. of where it doesn't is Sim jumps very high but the slowest jumper). Claw jumps the highest and the fastest (for sure). I'll add more later, if anyone sees anything wrong let me know.

[Airthrow]

I would be really interested if you could test frame by frame if everyone crouches different speeds, because my understanding of the game is that everyone crouches and stands up (from a crouching position, not waking up) exactly the same. Otherwise there'd be cases where only certain characters would have time to block low, but everyone seems to block the same speed to me.

Does anyone have any thoughts on Dic's best matchups and why? This thread IMO is a lot less informative than the Boxer thread. There's six pages and I still haven't seen a clear, concise explanation of how Devil's Reverse works, and a couple descriptions of TODs, not a whole lot of tactics at all...

[yuuki]

Airthrow:

The devils reverse is a good move when appropriate. Its uses are building meter, getting over fireballs, fake outs, getting to the other side of the screen, and attacking from above where the only answer for it is to block. You should be able to figure out how it works by experimenting with it.

The touch of death combo is generally cross up rh > 2 st. shorts > cr. forward x fierce psycho crusher.

However other combos have a high tendency to dizzy opponents as well. For example: Jump in strong, st. short, cr. forward x rh scissor kicks.

Bison doesnt really have one match up where he excels from my experience.

What a lot of bison players get stuck on is going for his high damage combos when really theres a lot to him, and you can win without dizzying them

[Professor Jones]

(and only Sim, Honda, Gief, and Blanka have longer normal throw ranges)

Boxer's mp throw range is longer than normal too.

[Airthrow]

Yuuki, what I meant was the directions/buttons for controlling the Devil's reverse, I have only really figured out that up/towards+jab is best to avoid fireballs and build meter, and up/towards+fierce is best for flying away. What are neutral up and up/back for?

I've seen some players change directions with DR in mid air and go a completely different way, does anyone know the exact input for how that's done?

Also, what is the best combo you can do after the devil's reverse, punch lands? Standing mk?

[ilikemacaroni707]

Hey I'm having trouble with offensive sims. Whenever I play sims that just like to keep me out it feels like a field day for me :looney:. But whenever I play sims that just play balls out and drill the fuck outta me/aggresive zoning I really just don't understand the situation and what to do. Also there are no sims that play like that on ggpo which is the only way I can get competition :sad:.

[efx]

Is there a list of what attacks you need to block the cross up like it's a cross up versus as a regular attack?

It seems that Ryu's crossup RH needs to be blocked as if it was not a cross up.

[ShinVega]

As far as a comprehensive list for every character as to the direction to block x's (cross ups), I don't know of one that exists. Example. Ryu's RH x should be blocked in the opposite direction you were initially facing; however, sometimes people will play mind games and not actually x and you'll end up blocking the wrong direction. One very tough x to block IMO would be gief's Siberian Splash (j.d+Fierce). Might buy the Yoga Book Hyper, it's helped me out quit a bit with questions like these as all the hit box diagrams are in there.

[orochizoolander]

So is anyone else hyped to play remixed dictator? Fake slide that goes as far as the real one except it doesn't hit of course will make walk up throw even easier, invincible st jab will probably be a much better anti air then j.mp and devils reverse is invincible on startup so he'll be able to escape corner pressure much easier.

Dic sounds toptier to me =) Any thoughts on how these buffs will affect his matchups and overall game play?

[UltraDavid]

He sounds top tier for sure, but also really dumb. In my opinion his antiair options and lack of a non-super reversal make him a really weird but very interesting character, one of the most unique in the game, and I like playing under that all-or-nothing mindset. He's really getting homogenized here, and I think that's stupid. Also it just seems bad to me from a balance point of view to address all of his weaknesses in such excellent ways and then even give him some totally out-of-the-blue fake move without nerfing any part of his game at all, especially when the situation where he's weakest (caught in the corner by a grappler) is already being taken out because Hawk, Gief, and Honda (reportedly) all now have more/some bounceback after their command grabs.

[Battosai]

Here is a link for a Tournament match vid between Thomas Osaki(Bison with the blue and gold color and Alex Valle(HF color ST ryu). This from evo 2k2. This match is towards the end of the vid

http://zachd.com/mvc2/matches/Evolution/evo2k2/evo2002%20super%20turbo%20highlights%20hour%201.wm v

[Yo' Daddy]

ok so i have a problem with the crossup TOD combo

crossup j.rh > s.lk > c.mk > scissor/crusher doesnt work for me. the scisssor/crusher never seems to come out. is there a trick to charging for this? if im facing right before crossing up, and i jump to the right over the opponent and keep holding right while doing the combo, is that sufficient charge time?


crossup j.rh > s.lk x2 > c.mk > scissor/crusher works for me, but i cant do s.lk x2 > cmk consistently, so i want to be able to do the previous version of the TOD combo.

any help is appreciated

[Footsy Bebop]

I think if you're going to do one s.lk, you have to use the crusher, not the scissor. I think the crusher takes slightly less charge time.

[epsilon_]

the first "tod" shouldn't be a crossup, it's just jumpin j.rh, s.lk, c.mk xx rh scissors.

the crossup combo into scissors is crossup j.rh, s.lk x2, c.mk xx rh scissors.

[UltraDavid]

Actually the crossup version is preferable, both because it does more damage and because it's a lot easier to actually hit the opponent because of how ambiguous and variable his crossups are. And for some characters, the better crossup jumpin is jumping forward, but I'm not enough of a dedicated Bison player to remember exactly which ones are better crossed up with roundhouse and which with forward. Also, don't always do the scissors to end the combo, pay attention to where you are on screen to decide whether to do scissors or crusher. If you're in the corner when your combo starts, finish with crusher to get out of there, both as an escape hatch in case you mess up and because otherwise you can't set up for another crossup combo.

Be sure to mix up the jump-in between fake crossup and crossup, you don't want to give the opponent an easy block. As Bison, you don't need to change the location of the start of your jump to do this mix up, you just have to change the timing of the actual jump-in attack; always jump from the same spot, but if you do the attack a bit earlier it hits from the front, and if you do it a bit later it hits from the back.

[Ouroborus]

bison needs his alpha teleport so he wont be ticked to death in the corner. or in sims case, yoga flamed to death.

[epsilon_]

well, i said shouldn't because he was wondering why it wouldn't work with one s.lk. you don't have time to charge the scissors with only 1.

[fatboy]

I was talking to GIGA-MSX about this one day.

I asked why he NEVER goes for the the c/u mk> cr.lk *2> cr. MK > Scissor Kick.

He said "whats the point."

The c/u mk> cr.lk *2> cr. MK > crusher is way easier to do, comes out 100% and dizzies 99% of the time. He could not really think of many matches where he hit that combo and lost.

He then asked me the question, why wouldn't you go for easiest combo with an ultra high dizzy %. Other than to simply show off, I couldn't give him a real response

It is true, the scissor combo does do a bit more damage, and dizzies 100%. However, there is a much larger margin of error to mess up the combo and totally lose your opportunity to punish. You have to charge the scissor 30% longer than the crusher, so the is a much higher chance to botch the whole thing.

As stated on Nohoho's page. Yuu Vega's most feared combo is:

"bonk, bip, bip, whap, frrrrroosh -> woo woo woo woo
shhh, bip, bip, whap, thwak, thwak -> peace out"

I am sure we all know this combo, and I am sure we all know why it is so fucking scary!

Just my 2 cents. I am not a bison expert. So, it is worh it weight. :razz:

[Yo' Daddy]

cheers Footsy Bebop, Ultradavid, epsilon and Fatboy

that answered my question perfectly!

[shortpitched713]

A new Dic player here. Had a question about one of the translations to Yoga Book Hyper for Dic, which can be found here. (http://www.super-turbo.net/sbc/data/ybh/dictator.html)

The fourth string starts with jab psycho crusher, slide kick (as it ends). I'm wondering just what the hell that means. Is it assuming that either the crusher or the slide knockdown? And in that case how would it be any different from any other knockdown? Or if its assuming that both get blocked then that doesn't make any sense either, since slide is like the unsafest move in the game. :wonder:

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated!

[Hol Horse]

A new Dic player here. Had a question about one of the translations to Yoga Book Hyper for Dic, which can be found here. (http://www.super-turbo.net/sbc/data/ybh/dictator.html)

The fourth string starts with jab psycho crusher, slide kick (as it ends). I'm wondering just what the hell that means. Is it assuming that either the crusher or the slide knockdown? And in that case how would it be any different from any other knockdown? Or if its assuming that both get blocked then that doesn't make any sense either, since slide is like the unsafest move in the game. :wonder:

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated!

I'm pretty sure it means that the string can start with either jab psicho crusher or the slide but ONLY if the slide hits in its final couple frames (like at the maximum possible range or meaty timed so that it obtains the main effect). Obviosuly you're gonna use the jab crusher starter quite more often

[Mixah]

As my third character, I'm subscribing to this thread.

[The Furious One]

Giga just posted this video on youtube.

Video of Tira escaping Zangief corner trap

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEtCWmlud7c


I would of thought it was luck, but Giga explains how it is done F*ing sick

[Mixah]

goddamn...

[orochizoolander]

Wtf!

[Daddyneptune]

Giga just posted this video on youtube.

Video of Tira escaping Zangief corner trap

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEtCWmlud7c


I would of thought it was luck, but Giga explains how it is done F*ing sick

Nice to know.

[Yo' Daddy]

how am i supposed to deal with gief? i always find myself getting ticked to death after a knockdown, reversal lariat beats my crossup attempts, and his body splash has godly priority. But apparently this is a 5-5 matchup according to T.Akiba chart http://www.super-turbo.net/sbc/data/diagrama/diagrama.html

what can i do to even up the odds, as from personal experience i only win 10% of my games against gief

[Footsy Bebop]

footsy with standing forward, standing roundhouse, keep your distancing right, last hit of scissor kick from far away, never do two hits on scissor kick or youll get SPDed, and occasional low roundhouse to reverse lariats

[Yo' Daddy]

whenever i do the s.mk and s.hk poking, i eventually get lariated and knocked down (which sets up gief's tick spd).... i can go from having a massive life lead, to getting knocked down by lariat just once and losing the round because of the repeated tick SPDs.

am i right in saying that reversal lariat beats all crossup attempts? or is it just my bad timing?

[Mavrick]

Ya your right when he's spinning hes invinciable too all attacks except to his head or feet so if you cross and dont hit hes head your going to get hit, the best way to cross is after you knock him down do a cross befor he gets to his feet. He stands up the slowest of all the fighters so you have a better chance then. Try using your knee press more aginist his lariate its a 80, 30 chance that you'll win with it</