Bison (dictator) Thread [Archive]

r3ko

10-30-2006, 10:01 AM

Susprised there isn't a thread for him already, but anyway here goes. This is gonna be more of a random musings than an actual guide, once the wiki is back up i'll write something more coherent.

Bison is an upper mid to top tier character. He does loads of damage, has some great normals, awesome throw and has few bad matchups. Despite his good points his he is a tricky character to use. With only his super as a reversal, your opponents are gonna put a lot pressure on in the air and in the corner aswell as on wakeup situations.

Bison has to take control of the match. Your main aim is to get a knockdown. He has alot of options after he knocks down an opponent (remember if your going for a meaty/tick attempt, then slide in after the knockdown to close that gap asap while keeping your charge):
-Crouching Forward is a beastly meaty, incredibly hard to reverse. You can score big combos off it or tick in throws. You could try comboing into scissor/crusher or ticking straight into throw or link a short or two into a throw. Even could try cancelling into a headstomp to mix things up a bit. In the corner a meaty blocked crouching forward cancelled into a crusher will cross up the opponent ready for a combo or throw.
-Tick throw with standing short or standing strong. Once again hard to reverse.
-Cross-up Roundhouse/Forward, allows for combos and standing short pressure and ticks. Example combo would be crossup roundhouse, standing short x2, crouching forward cancelled into a crusher. If blocked go for a throw after the first or second short.
-Headstomp and devil reverse are good attacks on a downed opponent which has a number interesting follow ups, such as walk in throw. standing strong also combos with the punch followup of the headstomp and dizzies quite often.
-Meaty super, good for finishing off opponent by chip damage or can setup some good pressure such as tick throws or added block string chip damage.

Bison's Throw is one of the best in the game, allows for lots of ticks and has lots of followups, regardless whether the opponent teched it or not, abuse it as much as you can. If opponent techs the throw you can walk up to them as they land, and tick into another throw with standing short. If they get used to that then walk up, crouching forward into standing Roundhouse combo. If they don't tech refer to the section above. Also if you manage to throw your opponent into the corner you can try a slide which ambigiously crosses up in the corner.

Even with a lack of reversal, bison does have some anti-air options. His Jumping Strong has alot of priority and combos into more strongs whilst in the air. Coupled with his incredibly long jump, as long as you can see the the opponents jump early you should be able to beat nearly any air attack. Straight up jumping forward/roundhouse also works extremely well. Also Jump straight up Short works well to hit sim's limbs on the way down. And at certian ranges scissor kick will also do the job.

Bison's standing forward/roundhouse is good for stuffing and trading with fireballs, aswell as following up a blocked scissor kick. Bison can do some serious chip damage in the form of block strings, nowhere near as good as champion edition days but still worth mentioning. Using scissors and jab crusher coupled with crouching forward, standing short, standing forward and standing and crouching strong you can make some interesting block strings to confuse and expose your opponent. Avoid extended block strings as these are reversal bait.

Combatting fireballs its best not to jump in, his air time is long so easy to anti air, so i suggest jumping straight up over fireballs and gradually walking forward and put some pressure on with your forward and roundhouse. Be prepared to jump mp on reaction though as opponents may try jumping at you if you get with their jump range.

Some combos you should try to learn are, obviously your jumping strong combo in the air. Try to land one, and jump again to get the other 2 (max 3 hits in total) when you have super. As you combo the super on their way down after the 2 hits.
Also jumping roundhouse, crouching forward cancelled into crusher is good damage and dizzies alot.
TOD (touch of death; does over 50% damage and dizzies) combo is jumping roundhouse, standing short, crouching forward cancelled into scissor for the dizzy 99% of the time.
Also the crossup cobo explained above, if its too tricky, try jumping crossup roundhouse into 2 standing shorts followed by a standing forward, not as damaging, doesn't normally dizzy but easy to do.

Thats all i can think of at the moment, hopefully some much wiser players can contribute.

ShinVega

10-30-2006, 10:51 AM

-Dic's air strong can be chained up to three times, and is great for anti-air against fast opp. (ex. chun, claw).
-Up + Short is a great air counter.
-End most if not all combos w/short or foward scissor kick.
-Use psycho crusher sparingly, I only use Jab.
-Dic's Head stomp and Devil Reverse both have two distinct features:

_1. If you start the special with a short/jab you can finish it with a fierce/rh and the damage will be dealt accordingly.

_2. There are three distance settings for the initial input for each special (they can be used at any time no matter where the opp. is) UpAway, Up, and UpTowards. For the second input (while dic's in the air) can be controlled by holding toward/away once the desired button is pressed.

Example. If guile is on the opposite side of the screen and you see he's going to throw a sonic boom (if you're already charged) you could press UpTowards+short to do a head stomp b/f he can counter w/flash kick. This can quickly be followed (while still in the last frames of the head stomp) by a fierce skull diver.

These distances are very useful for tricking your opp.
-Dic also has great throw range, and walking speed.
-Dic's super is easy to combo and covers a large portion of the stage. It's also pretty safe and hits after the first 10 frames.

r3ko

10-31-2006, 09:14 AM

Almost forgot about the overheard in the corner. Jump and press Forward very quickly next to your opponent when have thier backs in the corner as they get up for an overhead attack.

nicola

01-17-2007, 11:44 AM

Old Bison is a good character?

Kyokuji

01-17-2007, 06:30 PM

Don't see the point of using old Bison really.

nicola

01-20-2007, 03:11 AM

I have two questions about Bison:
1)In the Wiki NKI wrote that the Psycho Crusher can be used to escape tick throws.Is it true?
2)What are the best and the worst matchups for Bison?
Thanks.

ShinVega

01-20-2007, 03:50 AM

1) In order to counter a tick throw you need a reversal move, psycho crusher isn't a reversal; however, it does have 3 frames of invincibility so some ticks would catch you.
2) Best match up for Dic is probably (considering an average for all ST character match up possibililties) Claw. Claw's best move is Flying Barcelona attack and can be easily coutered with j.SP This does require practice and reflex to perfect. Worst Match Up is E. Honda by far. If E. Honda locks you down at any point your screwed due to his Ochio Throw. His (dic's) weak point is that he has no reversal move (except for his super) and therefore makes escape impossibel unless the opp. screws up, misses hundred hand slap or etc. Never block a jump in from E. Honda otherwise you'll be set up for the following.
REMEMBER: NKI also said (like any human opp. would say) every match is winnable!!

Kyokuji

01-20-2007, 04:53 AM

1) In order to counter a tick throw you need a reversal move, psycho crusher isn't a reversal.

No, but it does lift him off the ground.

nicola

01-20-2007, 06:47 AM

Thanks for the advices!
Can someone give me some help for fighting shotokans and Boxer with Bison?

Professor Jones

01-20-2007, 07:16 AM

Every special move can be a reversal...
And dic can't use the psycho crusher to escape tick throw attemps, because the sartup frames of the move are throwable, he doesn't leave the ground right away (same for scissor kicks). Dic's only option in this situation is to do a reversal throw (or a fast normal move if they are not ticking at point blank range).

jaminbenjamin

01-21-2007, 08:59 AM

SweetJohnnyV

01-21-2007, 05:02 PM

I thought I read that the first few frames of the psycho crusher were invincible, even though they had no hit frames. So, doing the psycho crusher as a reversal to ticks builds your super meter and beats really bad ticks, but otherwise will lose in the short run.

According to the Yoga Book Hyper, it breaks down like this:

LP Psycho Crusher: Invincible for 3 frames, starts hitting on frame 19
MP Psycho Crusher: Invincible for 2 frames, starts hitting on frame 16
HP Psycho Crusher: Invincible for 1 frames, starts hitting on frame 12

So yeah, I guess it would have to be a really bad tick in order to work:wgrin:

Se7in

01-21-2007, 06:08 PM

According to the Yoga Book Hyper, it breaks down like this:

LP Psycho Crusher: Invincible for 3 frames, starts hitting on frame 19
MP Psycho Crusher: Invincible for 2 frames, starts hitting on frame 16
LP Psycho Crusher: Invincible for 1 frames, starts hitting on frame 12

So yeah, I guess it would have to be a really bad tick in order to work:wgrin:

:confused:

fatboy

01-23-2007, 11:20 AM

TOD (touch of death; does over 50% damage and dizzies) combo is jumping roundhouse, standing short, crouching forward cancelled into scissor for the dizzy 99% of the time.

Can't you do the St.short x 2 in the TOD combo for a gauranteed dizzy?

I know I have seen it in several SBO videos.:looney:

Also isn't another TOD Jp. forward (CROSS UP) st.shortx2 > cr. forward> scissor?

I am not sure about the combo's I just mentioned. I am going of off memory. I am not try to spread mis-information. Can anyone coonfirm the combo's of of memory for me?:sweat:

Otherwise I'll try it tonight when I get home.

SweetJohnnyV

01-23-2007, 02:52 PM

:confused:

Oops! Fixed :wgrin:

BKB

01-24-2007, 02:31 AM

Yeah, crossup forward, s.short x2, c.forward, fierce crusha is usually the dizzy combo i see most. You won't get many front on jump-ins with him, and if you get the knockdown why not go for crossup?

The invicible crusha would be most useful against gief, maybe hawk. Better off going for counter-throw against everything else I think. Unless you wanna play the lottery against Cammy's hooligan roll or something..

Last ditch, no-life, meaty fireball evade? :rofl:

BKB

01-30-2007, 04:44 PM

double post, yay.

A couple questions about the headstomp :

Can you do the headstomp so that you don't bounce back, a la CvS2? I think in CvS2 you do it very very meaty, you'll hit them on the ankles, and then land so you can combo afterwards?

I know you can do headstomp, then whiff crossup dive punch thing, then throw for a sneaky throw. But is it possible to actually crossup and HIT with the dive punch? combo afterwards?

..and finally, can someone please breakdown how the headstomp works? Does performing it with up-back, up, up-forward make a difference? Sometimes I'll try to hit a fireballer, but instead I'll fly WAY up and across the other side of the stage hitting nothing. How do you do that on purpose, and how do you avoid it?

thanks!

ShinVega

01-31-2007, 12:20 AM

BKB

Read my first post in this thread. Yes, there is a hit box on the opp. which if timed correctly will land a headstomp without reverting to the skull diver animation. You can comb skull diver, c.Fierce.

IMO Devil Reverse is more useful than headstomp.

BKB

01-31-2007, 10:36 AM

yes, thanks, but it doesn't exactly breakdown the headstomp, and why sometimes it doesn't hit anything..

ShinVega

02-02-2007, 09:44 AM

If you input the command for a devil reverse with the opposite direction or up+toward you'll either not go towards the opp. at all (but still complete the motion), or you'll sail over the top of your opp. to the other side of the screen; respectively. This allows you to trick opp. into thinking you're attempting a headstomp/devil reverse when in actuallity you're not; so if they attempt a counter and you go past them you have some attack options open. Basically there are three distances to choose from at all times Up+away, Up, Up+towards. If the opp. is at jump distance from you, and there back is not to the wall you can go over them without ever hitting them.
If the attack does hit then you can hold towards/away and dic will move in the second air portion of the desired attack (headstomp/devil reverse). I hope this is clear now, if it's not please let me know.
If the opp. is in hitstun you'll automatically go over them w/o hitting them if you attempt a headstomp.

ThisGuileKillYa

02-07-2007, 03:39 PM

Couple questions..

Shinvega.. you said you find the devils reverse to be more useful than the head stomp. How so? I'm not doubting you, but at this point it feels to me like the stomp is far more useful, i was wondering what you're doing with the reverse to make it not only AS useful as the stomp, but even more so?

Another question is about the headstomp.. here is the pattern Ive seen used against me with the stomp.. I was wondering how this is done so I can use it vs others: They fly at me and stomp, then the followup punch crosses over and hits from the other side. Ive even seen it where after the air punch, they land on the OTHER SIDE yet again! If that's possible to do intentionally I'd like to know how. Tho most important is being able to cross over with the followup punch without whiffing and getting smacked when I land.

And I guess while Im posting about Bison, I'll ask: with the fierce crusher, when it's blocked, someone gets to throw after it's over. Seems to go both ways. Should one side get the throw consistantly with the correct timing? or is it a matter of the engine picking a random winner in the event of a tie(which it does)? I just need to know if this situation is a weapon, or something to be avoided.

Thanks!!

Soundatron

02-10-2007, 11:29 PM

how would u compare the Air-2-Air's against such AA's as
far HP
cr. HP

ShinVega

02-11-2007, 01:40 AM

ThisGuileKillYa:

1. Shinvega.. you said you find the devils reverse to be more useful than the head stomp. How so? I'm not doubting you, but at this point it feels to me like the stomp is far more useful, i was wondering what you're doing with the reverse to make it not only AS useful as the stomp, but even more so?

You have complete control over the devil reverse, and it has useful properties, like crossup, cancel, intentional whiff, and a.air. You control the special from start to finish.

2. Another question is about the headstomp.. here is the pattern Ive seen used against me with the stomp.. I was wondering how this is done so I can use it vs others: They fly at me and stomp, then the followup punch crosses over and hits from the other side. Ive even seen it where after the air punch, they land on the OTHER SIDE yet again! If that's possible to do intentionally I'd like to know how. Tho most important is being able to cross over with the followup punch without whiffing and getting smacked when I land.

Here are the controls for the headstomp: If you perform the headstomp and right before you hit the opp. you hold toward or away, that will determin the side of your opp. the skull diver comes from (this is important for crossup opportunities)!
The point at which you must strike your opp. in order to cause a cross-up is based on the hit boxes for that opp. stance at the time of your attempt (i.e. it all depends on the situation, check YBH). If the opp. blocks the stomp (opp. is in block stun) if you go to the other side and perform the skull diver quickly you will "crossup" your opp. IF THE OPP. is in hit stun, recovery animation, or invincibilty frames (this will require more experiments) the headstomp will float over the opp. Further investigaion of the previous sentence leads to the following generalization/theory:

If you cancel any P normal into the headstomp the direction reverts to the direction (for the first part ex. charge dn, up + tw + P) of the devil reverse even thought you input the headstomp command (charge dn, up + tw + K)!! I would like some confirmations on this; it's hard to test by yourself.

3. And I guess while Im posting about Bison, I'll ask: with the fierce crusher, when it's blocked, someone gets to throw after it's over. Seems to go both ways. Should one side get the throw consistantly with the correct timing? or is it a matter of the engine picking a random winner in the event of a tie(which it does)? I just need to know if this situation is a weapon, or something to be avoided.

I'd say it's something to just be avoided since many ppl would punish a whiffed fierce psycho crusher. If you use any psycho crushers I would reccomend the jab version since it has 3 (as compared to 1 for the fierce psycho crusher) and use it sparingly. The game does pick a random winner like you said. There's no sort of frame advantage/dis-advantage so it really doesn't matter.

CapMaster

02-11-2007, 08:34 PM

I must say r3ko, your avataer is incredible. Cracks me up everytime. Howd you come up with that?

FreddyL0c0

04-01-2007, 10:08 AM

Soundatron

04-03-2007, 07:26 AM

also make sure you pray before you fight Gief. I usually try to zone him with staning MK/HK.

ShinVega

04-08-2007, 11:41 AM

K

what can Bison do against the following:

1. vs Dhalsim: Constant, well placed drills, that lead to slides and more drill mayhem. And in the corner, infinite yoga flames = gg?? I cant jump out cause he recovers right in time to do another one when im in block stun

2. vs Zangief : His Body jump attack (with down fierce) countering my attempts to get out of there, my jumping medium punch, psycho crusher, down fierce and standing fierce as an anti-air? Cause if i block that shit, SPD

1. Try s.Strong/s.Fierce against drill>slide attack (if your not in the corner then time a short Knee Press to hit as the drill attack lands or use head stomp/devil reverse). As for a counter slide attack I recommend jab psycho crusher (since it has more hitting frames than the slide and lifts you from the ground with slight invincibility). Yoga Flames in the corner can be stopped with a well timed s.Foward/rh.

2. Use a c.fierce to counter the body splash every time. note: dic's c.fierce has nine frames of start up and six hitting frames so time it well. It works b/c of the hit box locations.

ThisGuileKillYa

04-12-2007, 12:37 PM

ShinVega

04-13-2007, 06:25 AM

I was wondering why this situation happens and how I can prevent it.

I'm Dictator and the opponent is a projectile thrower. We're between 1/2 screen and full screen apart. I am crouching, anticipating a fireball. They throw one, so I immediately do a headstomp as punishment. To my surprise, Bison just flies over them and lands behind them! Why am I not stomping?? Seems like a perfect time for a stomp to teach them that fireballs arent safe. no? I've tried this with the up and up/fwd stomps and both do this. What gives? thanks in advance.

Oh yeah another question.. I was watching a YuuVega video, and he seems to like to crossup with short a lot. I was under the impression forward was the main crossup move and that rounhouse could also be used. I knew short crossed up, but when and why would I ever use it? Just to mixup stun length?

1. I've messed with this as well, and I've come up with two "possible" reasons. The headstomp has 30 frames of start up if it takes more than 30 frames for you to counter the fireball it won't hit [unless you use the appropriate distance short, foward, or RH i.e. depending on the distance between you and your opp.]; However, if you time it as a REVERSAL it hits 100% of the time (from testing w/AE and it obviously says reversal in screen). An alternate method is to use the DevilReverse +UpTwd +Jab and then Jab to do a quick DevilReverse although this requires a fair amount of timing in itself and rarley hits (b/c it's hard to hit the opp. b/f there back in neutral). Another possibility is that since the headstomp immediately hits (where as the DevilReverse hits only after putting in another command) the cpu might not be able to distinguish between the fireball and the opp.

2. YBH: pg. 171 explains part of your question. For the j.Fd, j. RH the time at which you hit the button determines whether or not it will cross up. This has to do with the hitting frames and hit boxes. Short has the shortest amt. of startup frames 2, as compared to 3, and 5 respectively for fwd and rh. Plus the short will always hit as a crossup depending on distancing over opp. The downside to the short crossup is the hit box is smaller than the fwd and rh are. Since you use a crossup to combo I don't see why mixing up stun length would have any usefulness.

If any of this is wrong or confusing please let me know.:wgrin:

Professor Jones

04-16-2007, 02:23 AM

I always do the head stomp that way : charge 1, 7+kick. I never have problems with punishing fireballs with that. I think that if you use the 8 or 9 direction to do the headstomp, Dic goes farther (it's also the case with the devil reverse.

As for the crossup question, I almost never see top Dic players use short. Most of the time they use mk, and sometimes hk. There really is no reason to use short, since its hitbox makes it a poor crossup compared to mk and hk, and you don't even need it to mixup the direction the opponent must block.

ThisGuileKillYa

04-16-2007, 09:05 AM

As for the crossup question, I almost never see top Dic players use short. Most of the time they use mk, and sometimes hk. There really is no reason to use short, since its hitbox makes it a poor crossup compared to mk and hk, and you don't even need it to mixup the direction the opponent must block.

Well what prompted my question was a video I saw of YuuVega where he used short more often than he didn't. Though in other videos I've seen him in, he didn't use it as much.

And here's a new question(s): Any tips on the vs Chun Li matchup? She's very difficult to get in on and it seems very uphill if she's up in life. And I guess I should also ask about jab DP happy shotos (in partic. O ken). Because it doesn't seem safe to try and punish a whiffed DP because the next one seems to pop me before I can get a standing forward out or whatever.

Professor Jones

04-16-2007, 02:00 PM

Can you please give me a link to that video ? I'd really like to see it.

Against chun li, remember that jumping short is a very good air counter against her. Punish her fireballs on reaction with the headstomp if she's turtling at the other end of the screen. Pressure her with the usual Dic offensive tools and force her to make mistakes, like whiffing upkicks.

To punish dp's, I almost always use st. rh. Against ryu who has a slower dp, you can try punishing him with a scissor kick.

Grits'N'Gravy

04-16-2007, 03:25 PM

The only thing I can say for the chun li match is: get full meter before she starts to flopkick you. Kneepress nightmare is the only way out of that bullshit.

Take it from me, I went 2 and out vs scrub chuns cause I didn't charge up at evo east.

Besides that, your general air to air stuff is all good. Since her reversals aren't that great, if you get corner it's all over. (Whenever I had her cornered before she could flopkick me, I won the round) Mix up the tick throws with knee presses and do the mk/hk stuff, cmk meaty etc.

In hindsight, I should've counter charactered w/ Honda... oh well.

ThisGuileKillYa

04-16-2007, 04:53 PM

Nice stuff, guys. thanks.

And howabout vs the O ken shit? Prof Jones suggested standing RH to punish whiffed DPs, but this was after I had just said a standing forward(faster than RH) was too slow. I'm talking about the JAB DP here. If I totally see the DP coming, I can gamble and kick him on the way down. But on reaction, O Ken is already DPing again by the time I press kick. And I'm not slow lol

I guess a general strategy for the ground game could suggest the best courses of action here. I usually like to dance around and charge down as much as possible(without being too obvious about it) to try and stomp a fireball or build meter and fly around with the devils reverse (which Ive been using much more/better.. thanks ShinVega! :) ), but man a good O ken just seems to build a wall with the fireball traps and jab DPs. Maybe I was just out-matched by the last guy i faced in this matchup, but damn it was hard to get a move in edgewise.

So what's the general approach vs a quick O Ken? I'm worried mainly about the nearly unpunishable jab DPs I can keep him out but I cant get in!

Thanks, you guys rule with a glowing fist

Professor Jones

04-17-2007, 01:10 AM

I personally have no problems punishing o ken's jab dps with standing rh. Work on that and when your opponent will get punished for every whiffed dps he does he will start to use them more wisely. Against fireballs, if you are close enough use st rh, this will be a trade but in your favor. From afar use the headstomp, if you can't jump straight up or simply block. Fireball cornertraps can be a pain in the ass for dic, so be patient and wait for the opportune moment to get out of them.

KnightWarrior

05-03-2007, 06:55 PM

Does anyone have a youtube video of Bison's 7 hit re-dizzy combo from CE

Grits'N'Gravy

05-04-2007, 01:25 PM

Prof Jones:

All Bison players know that jab Crusher beats Hondas headbutts and Blanka balls, but I'd like to know if you know of anything else it beats. I find myself never really using the Psycho Crusher unless I am pretty sure it will hit or trade, or if my opponent tries to jump over me with some bullshit and it hits from behind/bottom. Or in combos, obviously.

I'd like to know if you know any other good things to do with jab crusher/crushers in general. Usually if I am in crusher range I scissor.

Also: Anybody play OG Bison? The homing skull dive is fucking jokes!!! =))))

jchensor

05-04-2007, 01:31 PM

And howabout vs the O ken shit? Prof Jones suggested standing RH to punish whiffed DPs, but this was after I had just said a standing forward(faster than RH) was too slow. I'm talking about the JAB DP here. If I totally see the DP coming, I can gamble and kick him on the way down. But on reaction, O Ken is already DPing again by the time I press kick. And I'm not slow lol

The key to punishing the Jab DP is that you have to train yourself to not be Blocking. You have to learn how to play Bison without Blocking. Seriously. If you are Blocking when he Jab DPs and whiffs, you will be stuck for a brief period and cannot punish the Jab DP.

Instead, learn to be in Neutral or, better yet, holding Towards on the joystick and pressing Jab to stop yourself from moving forward. When I play against Kens, I know that once he gets close enough for Jab DPs to be a threat, he cannot throw Fireballs anymore (Standing Roundhouse trades with Fireballs on reaction. See if he keeps throwing Fireballs. ^_^). Then, when he starts whiffing Jab DPs, you are already moving forward (or in Jab delay but that's not a problem at all) and you are free to kick him. Pretty much as soon as you see him DP, just walk up and Kick. Don't worry about getting him on the way down. Naturally, you'll Kick AFTER he stops hitting because it is so fast. Just go up and kick it. Again, if you are at Defensive Crouch or Holding Back, you will go into Block animation, then come out, and you can't move forward fast enough to punish him.

Standing Roundhouse MAKES Bison good against Ken. Bison is one of the only characters Ken can't whiff Jab DPs on mindlessly because of it. Once Ken starts getting worried and backs off to start playing Fireball games from afar, NOW go to charging down/back for Headstomps. But when he moves in, you seriously should never be charging up for a Special move ever. And without the Knee Bash traps, Bison has a way better chance of beating O.Ken than N.Ken.

- James
http://jchensor.blogspot.com

Pez_Man

07-18-2007, 05:25 PM

nohoho

07-18-2007, 05:58 PM

The left right issues are reversed for the second player side.

That is: 2p Bison (life bar on the right) can cross up with a psycho crusher on the left side. He can't cross up on the right side.

That video is really well done. Kudos zazza! Make one for New Ken! ^_^

fatboy

07-18-2007, 11:24 PM

Yeah that is GIGA-MSX's video... too good

SweetJohnnyV

07-18-2007, 11:32 PM

Yeah, great vid Giga! I don't suppose there's a higher-res version i could download somewhere is there?

GIGA-MSX

07-19-2007, 07:40 PM

THX guys and THX to pez man for posting it, i was in 2 minds of doing it

If you know a site where i can upload it too i will go ahead and do it.

King Of Bums

07-21-2007, 01:18 AM

anyone know a good and consistent way of comboing the super (besides the anti air). And if you do, put down the entire input instead of something like st. short cr. forward xx super.

Gipson

07-22-2007, 06:00 PM

i would love to learn CE bison:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXJmvbnzIqI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mrwze30rHGA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jn1U0WKjvBM

range, power, easy to combo/dizzy...dangerous stuff.

DancingMonkay

07-27-2007, 03:29 AM

yah, I was actually trying to get info/strats for CE bison. I don't know his combos that well...can you correct me if I'm wrong?

mk scissor kick, d.mp, s.mk?
scissor kick, s.mk?

I would really appreciate combos and lockdowns...

I know that you can scissor kick, s.mp, s.mk, s.mk(whiff), then scissor kick into combo a whiffed attack, i think >.<

EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ6c_Fj0aY4

anyone know the command inputs for this combo?

DancingMonkay

08-02-2007, 09:59 PM

can anyone help w/ CE bison?

nohoho

08-02-2007, 11:05 PM

There's a thread elsewhere on SRK for talking about Hyper Street Fighter 2/Anniversary Edition
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=71172

Don't mention CE Bison anymore in the SSF2T sub-form, mmkay?

ToyRobotTerror

08-03-2007, 12:13 PM

Anyone want to fill in the matchups on the wiki. I'm starting to play st seriously and i need to know pretty much all match ups. If someone would take the time i would be most grateful.

ToyRobotTerror

08-11-2007, 08:59 AM

So what to do against blanka? Especially on wake up since vertical ball beats all cross up attempts?

ThisGuileKillYa

08-22-2007, 10:03 PM

Yeah I'm also curious about the matchup vs Blanka. Tho on his wakeup that's not too hard. If vertical ball is messing with your plans, just bait and punish it.

What I'm having trouble with is dealing with the jumping short into bite stuff. When I play my brother I can keep decent control of the match until he lands that one bite and then keeps them coming with the jumping ticks. A quick jump straight up short can repel it some of the time, but the whole scheme is hard to shake.

Any ideas on thie situation and the matchup in general?

nohoho

08-27-2007, 11:18 AM

Ok I typed up a little Bison vs. Blanka.

The most important thing is to sort out your anti-air. Bison's primary air defense is going air-to-air: climbing jump strong, vertical jump rh/strong, escaping jump rh, etc. This isn't his only option, however - two other choices to keep in mind:
1) crouching fierce. If Blanka is eager to win an air-to-air clash with his jumping jab or short you can generally shut him down with this ground attack. You need a feel for the spacing and a read on your opponent, but crouching fierce is a good back-up anti-air.

2) run away. Psycho crusher underneath him as he jumps in. Or, if he's trying to start a cross-up short trap use a slide kick to sneak away.

In a ground battle standing medium kick is ok. Keep backing up - it's good to have a quick trigger finger on the scissor kicks and psycho crushers to catch him doing a slide punch or crouching roundhouse.

Like TRT says, cross up medium kick loses to reversal vertical ball. You can beat that ball from the front though. The jump kick has to be a little bit high (i.e. a shade later than "well timed") to avoid a trade.

Fierce psycho crusher seems to be a decent option. Blanka can block and counter with a crouching fierce but in my experience it's a little random. If you do one psycho crusher and he misses then another and he hits, the 6 ticks of life from the blocked crushers will add up to more damage than the one fierce punch.

ThisGuileKillYa

09-09-2007, 05:47 AM

Earlier in this thread I had posted some rudimentary questions about the Devils Reverse (DR for typing ease). Since then I've been playing and practicing and reading and watching now I feel my use of DR has matured and improved.

However... my new experiences have brought about some new questions. Hopefully this can spark some discussion about how you guys are utilizing this bad ass move, and how top players are utilizing it (for anyone who knows to explain.. Chen? Zass? nohoho? NKI? [Hey NKI, someone seemingly reliable once told me Bison was your 2ndary after Chun... if that's true why aren't you all over this thread? He said you were really good with the crusher-in-the-corner-corpse-hop-crossover...say that 3 times fast] ).

One thing I noticed is that the strength of the punch button seems to dictate(no pun intended) the height of the initial flight. Unless this was some other variable at work and the buttons I used were coincidental. But it seemed to be so. it seems to me that the high one might be prefered when flying across the screen safely, but the lower one might be good for a (relatively) quick crossup. But then maybe hes too vulnerable close to the ground? This discovery has made me once again clueless about the DR, and I'm never sure which button to use. I think I had been using strong before when I didn't know it mattered, just for ease.

Now my DR-noob approach has pretty much been to:

a.) do the up-torward version after a fireball or triple strong juggle (as the YBH tech's said to do) or any other time I have the oppurtunity to try a crossup. Sometimes it seems to work beautifully, and other times it seems to fly me too far back towards my original direction and either un-crosses up or sometimes outright whiffs. Sometimes I'll also intentionally do this, pulling back, as a fake.

or b.) do the up-back one to build meter and make it look like I'm gonna fly around and do something. But the more I DR, the less use I see for this up-back version, especially in light of everyone saying Bison wants to advance.

So I guess, in a nutshell, I'm looking for anyone to explain specifically any of their more effective setups and/or attack tactics, or those of top Dictaster players. Which button are you/they using? Upback, upfwd, up? How far in that direction do you/they go before hitting P if at all? Then where are you/they ideally guiding him?

I feel pretty strong in my use of the Head Stomp, so when that discussion rolls around I'd be happy to contribute some of my "and you are...?"-level tricks with it, but when it comes to DR, I now love it and see it's importance. But now that I know a lot more about it, I'm a whole new special kind of clueless. :)

Thanx!

denki

11-07-2007, 05:58 PM

Anyone know the exactly number of frames that require the charge of psycocrusher or any other "tame" tecnic?

BKB

11-07-2007, 06:08 PM

denki

11-08-2007, 03:59 AM

I think is not possible with the head stomp but u can get a similar effect (is a less high jump) with a DR pointing up-away (to behind the opponent).

ShinVega

11-11-2007, 06:29 PM

[QUOTE=BKB;4481510]A little clarification on this would be nice.

Getting the no-hit headstomp in the situation it was DESIGNED for, drives me fucking bananas.

I do the same motion everytime, and everytime it hits, EXCEPT when they're throwing a FB. what gives.

Does anyone know how to do the super high no-hit headstomp on purpose? The one where you just soar into the opposite upper corner? Would be awesome for getting out of corners.[/QUOTE

If you perform the headstomp before the opp. goes into recovery frames then the headstomp will hit. Once the opp. starts to recover the headstomp won't hit because the headstomp is designed to hit on top of the hit box (I'm assuming this based on tests performed below); therefore, if the fireball has come out and the opp. goes into recovery the cpu doesn't "see" the opp. it misses. I used are the following situations to test my theory:

1. Jump up with no attack; if you perform the headstomp before the opp. starts to descend the headstomp will hit, if the opp. starts to go into falling frames the headstomp misses.

2. Jump with attack (ex. jab) the headstomp will hit as long as the opp. doesn't start to fall.

3. Use claw and perform wall dive; as long as you attack before claw starts to fall (after hitting wall, obviously if you don't vega won't hit the wall and the headstomp misses). If claw starts to descend at all the headstomp misses.

4. Perform srk (any strength), headstomp will hit (depending on hit box and frame you perform headstomp the hs will hit opp or opp hits you or both). If opp. goes into falling frames headstomp misses.

Basically depending on your reaction time you should hit with the headstomp if you perform it as soon as possible (very difficult at full screen). I'll perform more tests tomorrow to make sure I cover all the bases.

denki

11-13-2007, 07:00 AM

This is a good explanation however i think that to try to do the head stomp high jump is a little bit dangerous and i prefer to go to the no attack devil reverse.

orochizoolander

11-19-2007, 09:33 AM

I just started to use ST bison on more then a casual level so while i'm suire i'l find all the general strats here (especially the OP) n on the wiki i would very much appreciate if someone posted a matchup chart or breakdown of the matchups for ST bison.

EDIT: can't find any vids of high level ST bison so any links would help.

Mizuki

11-19-2007, 12:51 PM

Theres tons of vids of Bison...
Just look through here. http://www.youtube.com/user/superturbor

orochizoolander

11-20-2007, 12:33 AM

Thx.

kid_krush

12-13-2007, 07:37 PM

boxer vs dictator what does bison have to stop boxer from rushing in and how is this match up fof dic would you guys consider dis to simalar to guile without sonic booms feel free to comment no negative shit for all you haters out there

Professor Jones

12-14-2007, 01:01 PM

You have to stop him before his punch comes out. Depending on the distance, you can use cr. mk, standing mk/ hk and scissors. Sometimes it's better to just block. The damage on the rush punch is quite big and it knocks you down, which is an especially bad situation for Dictator because of his lack of a decent reversal.

denki

12-25-2007, 09:41 PM

just 1 thing to add to the vs blanka match up: when you use the fierce psycho crusher be sure that you can go through and continue on the other part of the stage to avoid a biting throw and have the possibility of eventually start again with another crusher when the enemy is still in the center of the stage.

Merry Christmas to all!

Ehonda

12-26-2007, 07:10 AM

I was just reading through this thread and noticed that it was stated that Bisons jab crusher stops Hondas headbutts ...No it does not! its all a timing issue, its only that most Honda users do not see the jab crusher coming, which is why it always seems to hit the jab headbutt. If Honda waits just a little longer he can hit it. example

Opening Rd. Bison does J.Psycho Crusher; Honda attempts JHB. The jab HB prolly wont work b/c Honda is anticipating a F crusher so Honda reacts a split second to early. But if Honda reacts a little later it will hit the J crusher.

denki

12-26-2007, 07:14 AM

no,if both special moves hit in their hitting frames the crusher win, u can also stop the honda super special in that way, i tested this at the game center. It is a question of hitting and non hitting frames of the jab crusher: you lose if the honda head hits you when you are in the first 18non hitting frame of the jab crusher (even if the first 3 frames are of invincibility so you can be hitten only for 15 frames). The same if the head hits you when you are in the final 16 non hitting frames of the jab crusher.

Ehonda

12-26-2007, 07:26 AM

Distance plays a big factor in this situation. If both Honda & Bison are far away from each other, it really does not matter. Its only when in close does this matter. Perfect Timing By Honda hits Bison everytime out of any crusher. but that is not realistic.

denki

12-26-2007, 08:28 AM

Yes this is an application of what i was saying about hitting frames: the honda headbutt has a initial non hitting frames of 8,11,6 (jab,strong,fierce) and also in this frames is invicible so if both start close headbutt win the crusher because hits when the crusher is still in non hitting frames.
If you are not close u can do the same waiting and hitting the crusher when i am in my final 16 non hitting frames. It requires good timing but is possible.
Fortunatly for us the headbutt has a long final non hitting frames where i can do what i want.

ParryPerson.

01-09-2008, 11:01 AM

Is LP Crusher safe on block versus some chars or all?

denki

01-09-2008, 03:03 PM

Do you mean when they parry the low crusher?

ParryPerson.

01-09-2008, 03:07 PM

Do you mean when they parry the low crusher?

:confused:

lftrpllr

01-10-2008, 11:14 AM

Is LP Crusher safe on block versus some chars or all?

I think it's safe versus most characters. I know Zangief can piledrive it from most distances after he blocks the 2 hits. I don't think Honda and T.Hawk have the range to grab you. The only other move I can think that may be fast enough to punish it is Blanka's ball, but I haven't tested it.

-wes

ParryPerson.

01-10-2008, 11:18 AM

I think it's safe versus most characters. I know Zangief can piledrive it from most distances after he blocks the 2 hits. I don't think Honda and T.Hawk have the range to grab you. The only other move I can think that may be fast enough to punish it is Blanka's ball, but I haven't tested it.

-wes

Yeah I've been messing with it, and gief can't SPD it at the very right distance but most times he can, blanka ball can punish it on block, but honda and hawk can't do jack about it.

lftrpllr

01-10-2008, 11:30 AM

There are some ways to cross up with the Devil's reverse but I'm not really sure how to set them up. I think the hit box is wierd enough on that move so you can actually hit your opponent with your shoulder of your non-expected arm. In general, if you have the ability to cross up your opponent, yuo should really go for the: jumping forward kick, standing shrt kick x 2, low forward xx fierce crushaa for a dizzy (and a win). I use the Devil's reverse to bait out moves, build meter and empty jump throw. If you do the Devil's reverse and do nothing, it works at a sort of low jump where you can throw the second your toes touch the ground. It works as a good surprise tactic from time-to-time and you throw them so fast it almost looks like an airthrow.

You can also get the same airthrow effect after your opponent locks the head stomp and you use the punch button follow up to steer yourself near your opponent (preferrably behind them). I played an dictator player at More in Japan that used this "air throw" tactic with great efficiency.

Bison's Psycho Chrushaa corner cross up works like this. Knock down your opponent (throw, scissor kick, etc.), do a roundhouse kick slide to get near them and charge back at the same time, as they get up do a fierce PC and continue to hold towards (which will now start your charge the on the other side), now do standing short x 2, low forward xx fierce PC to your opponent's back.

-wes

Earlier in this thread I had posted some rudimentary questions about the Devils Reverse (DR for typing ease). Since then I've been playing and practicing and reading and watching now I feel my use of DR has matured and improved.

However... my new experiences have brought about some new questions. Hopefully this can spark some discussion about how you guys are utilizing this bad ass move, and how top players are utilizing it (for anyone who knows to explain.. Chen? Zass? nohoho? NKI? [Hey NKI, someone seemingly reliable once told me Bison was your 2ndary after Chun... if that's true why aren't you all over this thread? He said you were really good with the crusher-in-the-corner-corpse-hop-crossover...say that 3 times fast] ).

One thing I noticed is that the strength of the punch button seems to dictate(no pun intended) the height of the initial flight. Unless this was some other variable at work and the buttons I used were coincidental. But it seemed to be so. it seems to me that the high one might be prefered when flying across the screen safely, but the lower one might be good for a (relatively) quick crossup. But then maybe hes too vulnerable close to the ground? This discovery has made me once again clueless about the DR, and I'm never sure which button to use. I think I had been using strong before when I didn't know it mattered, just for ease.

Now my DR-noob approach has pretty much been to:

a.) do the up-torward version after a fireball or triple strong juggle (as the YBH tech's said to do) or any other time I have the oppurtunity to try a crossup. Sometimes it seems to work beautifully, and other times it seems to fly me too far back towards my original direction and either un-crosses up or sometimes outright whiffs. Sometimes I'll also intentionally do this, pulling back, as a fake.

or b.) do the up-back one to build meter and make it look like I'm gonna fly around and do something. But the more I DR, the less use I see for this up-back version, especially in light of everyone saying Bison wants to advance.

So I guess, in a nutshell, I'm looking for anyone to explain specifically any of their more effective setups and/or attack tactics, or those of top Dictaster players. Which button are you/they using? Upback, upfwd, up? How far in that direction do you/they go before hitting P if at all? Then where are you/they ideally guiding him?

I feel pretty strong in my use of the Head Stomp, so when that discussion rolls around I'd be happy to contribute some of my "and you are...?"-level tricks with it, but when it comes to DR, I now love it and see it's importance. But now that I know a lot more about it, I'm a whole new special kind of clueless. :)

Thanx!

ParryPerson.

01-10-2008, 11:35 AM

For me, controlling the DR to actually HIT them on their wake up seems kinda hard, and I never see yuuvega doing this ever. Anyone got any tips?

Professor Jones

01-30-2008, 05:25 AM

I was just reading through this thread and noticed that it was stated that Bisons jab crusher stops Hondas headbutts ...No it does not! its all a timing issue, its only that most Honda users do not see the jab crusher coming, which is why it always seems to hit the jab headbutt. If Honda waits just a little longer he can hit it.

You are absolutely right. But keep in mind that a Psycho Crusher will beat honda's headbutts (super included) cleanly if it hits after the invincible frames. I personally use it a lot against scrubby hondas who headbutt constantly and it works like a charm. Against intelligent players you don't have much occasions to use the psycho crusher for that.

ShinVega

01-30-2008, 05:39 PM

For me, controlling the DR to actually HIT them on their wake up seems kinda hard, and I never see yuuvega doing this ever. Anyone got any tips?

Use the properties of the DR to buy yourself more time to prepare for your attempt at a crossup. You have a lot of control while performing the DR; just learn how to control it. Once you get the DR timing down performing the DR as a meaty will become much easier. Take into account the size of the hitbox. Example: claw can do the same with his wall dive; however, his is easier because the hit box is much larger. IMO use it sparingly, if at all.

ejdge

02-05-2008, 12:47 AM

Can Dic get out of tick throws without a super?

denki

02-05-2008, 06:03 AM

1) with a reversal throw if the other character has a throw range as or less than your

2) with a knee press if the other player has a very bad timing

3) you can try with a jab crusher because has the first 3 frames of invicibility but is quite impossible.

The best one and the only one if u dont have the special is a reversal throw, but it is very difficult because you have only 1 frame to do.

ShinVega

02-05-2008, 03:51 PM

Can Dic get out of tick throws without a super?

The best way IMO is LP Psycho Crusher. It only has 3 frames of invincibility, but it lifts Dic off the ground. Example: Gief crosses up with body splash and goes for SPD; perform the P.C. as a reversal (as soon as Gief lands on the first frame). This counters the SPD attempt.

Note: you'll have to swap the direction you're charging right as Gief crosses over you (fairly difficult).

denki

02-06-2008, 12:44 AM

fatboy

02-06-2008, 04:50 PM

The lp crusher can function but always make me think a lot because, yes u can perform as a reversal and has 3 frames of invincibility but doesnt lift until 12th frame so you have 9 frames where u can be grabbed from zangief that after the body splash that is a air attack dont have recovery frame and also dont have start up frames for the spd because is a throw.

I think this solution is very difficult and nearly impossible if the zangief player has a perfect timing.

Exactly, I was thinking this myself.

I could be worng on this... Wouldn't be the first time....

Take a regular kick throw character. Lets say Chun doing St. Strong> Strong tick throw.

The game option selects the throw/ normal move.

If the input for the throw is input on the first frame in the LP PC start up, during those 3 inv. frames, the normal up close strong would come out, (the game has no missed frames) and would then hit on it's 4th frame in the remainder of Dic's start up; koncking him out of the PC.

Thoughts?

mad possum

02-06-2008, 06:05 PM

Exactly, I was thinking this myself.

I could be worng on this... Wouldn't be the first time....

Take a regular kick throw character. Lets say Chun doing St. Strong> Strong tick throw.

The game option selects the throw/ normal move.

If the input for the throw is input on the first frame in the LP PC start up, during those 3 inv. frames, the normal up close strong would come out, (the game has no missed frames) and would then hit on it's 4th frame in the remainder of Dic's start up; koncking him out of the PC.

Thoughts?

I think your right Fatboy. I don't think the jab PC hits until later than 4 frames. Dic's best bet is a reversal throw. If the opponent has a farther throw range than you and is out of your range than all you can do is hope they screw up (if you don't have Super).

I've heard people talk about the jab PC but really your better off trying a fast normal or Scissor Kick. There is only 3 frames of invc., it doesn't hit until the later frames and he stays on the ground for more than enough time to get thrown, jab PC DOES NOT WORK (unless opponent completely screws his tick throw).

ShinVega

02-06-2008, 07:54 PM

Good Point(s).

The logical approach is to use a Scissor kick (they all have 8 start up frames, but Dic "actually" lifts off the ground after the first 3).

Here's the frame data from YBH in case anyone would like to know: LP PC: 18, 32, 16 (first 3 frames are invincible). Scissor Kick: 8, 18, 10 (11, and 12 recovery frames, respectively for Foward and RH) Dic lifts off ground immediately, but the game only counts it after the first 3 (i.e. Gief can still throw you on first three frames).

ejdge

02-13-2008, 03:56 PM

How do you do Dic's backwards j.forward overhead? I've seen Taira do it a ton yet I can't get the timing down. Does it only work on specific characters?

denki

02-13-2008, 08:14 PM

ParryPerson.

02-13-2008, 09:34 PM

How do you do Dic's backwards j.forward overhead? I've seen Taira do it a ton yet I can't get the timing down. Does it only work on specific characters?

It works on most people and some in the corner I believe, not sure.

You just jump forward and hit mk. Unless I'm misunderstanding you.

ejdge

02-13-2008, 10:24 PM

At last all capcom classic olympic in Kyoto i have also seen yuuvega doing this and looking at his hands i have seen that he jumps, then press forward and back quite together. This requires times and many experience.

So I hit forward then back really fast?

Yeah I'm not talking about the normal jumping mk. Here's what I'm talking about
http://youtube.com/watch?v=P9vduowH0i4

It's the first thing he does to the Zangief player once he knocks him down.

denki

02-14-2008, 10:15 AM

when yuuvega was doing that i was just some steps behind him and from what i have seen, from near he was jumping and that hit back and forward. He was able to hit very near to the ground. However yuuvega is yuuvega...my opinion is that the key is to start from very near, infact also in ur video i see before a meaty overkick. However i am testing this me too just in this days. If i have some news i will post.

ShinVega

02-14-2008, 09:45 PM

:tup:How do you do Dic's backwards j.forward overhead? I've seen Taira do it a ton yet I can't get the timing down. Does it only work on specific characters?

This is exactly how u can do it (1 way might be others). Yuuvega is incorporating a method I use to escape quickly with ken's reverse juice kick. The motion is to start at down roll your finger to back+foward Kick, then quickly up/twds. Yes, you press up/twds your opp. this "slings" you away in the opp. direction. I plan on doing more testing on why this works like this. I wonder about a lot of things in ST like guile's actual input, why some moves don't requires entire motion (360), and how inputs like the above work. When I'm done I'll be sure to post unless someone has already explained this phenomenon.

This method works 10/10 times for me and is easy/safe (IMO).

fatboy

02-14-2008, 11:22 PM

:tup:

. The motion is to start at down roll your finger to back+foward, then quickly up/twds. Yes, you press up/twds your opp. this "slings" you away in the opp. direction. ...

Forward Kick? Just to be clear. I am not a Vega player. Took me a few reads to figure it out.:sweat:

PS. Thanks BTW.
PPS. Does method work with Chun's mk stomp as well?

ShinVega

02-14-2008, 11:37 PM

I tried performing chun's mk stomp, um...I wasn't able to do it consistently b/c you have to hit dn+mK. I did the following motion: dn/away, up/twd, dn+mk. This is extrememly difficult IMO. Thanks for the correction, I meant Foward Kick, I never put foward or backward in a motion, confusing depending on the side; I always put towards or away.

denki

02-19-2008, 11:57 PM

ok men, here we are, i tested the special overhead, it function against: Blanka, Zangief, Guile, Dhalsim, Bison (boxer) and Sagat.

If someone have seen a video where it function against other character post here.

ParryPerson.

04-02-2008, 01:54 PM

Is there any use for some things I noticed, mainly meaty cr.mk st.lk xx headstomp and I noticed you can get a frame or 2 of cr.rh out before scissors.

any use?

Sosage

04-14-2008, 10:25 PM

This may be a dumb question, but I was playing against a Chun-Li recently and her lightning legs were fucking me over. Knee Press and Psycho Crusher were inconsistent in breaking through. I take it there are some specific frames in the lightning leg animation that the Psycho Crusher/Knee Press will beat out?

Any advice on how to deal with this match up overall? I was getting ran over pretty hard.

denki

04-15-2008, 12:14 AM

Abuse of jumping back medium punches for defence, j.forward C3 when she is discending a jumb, standing rh/forward against adoken or hp from distance. Attention in antiair attack u need a good timing, for antiair attacks abuse of also jumping straight rh.
And then u can also use the hover cross up when she makes an ukemi even if she is not in the corner. A really short distance s.C1 combo or throw. J
ump in combo of j.forward rh - crouching forward xx psycho crusher.
Head press win over upperkicks.
Psycho crusher win against lighting legs if u are in the hitting frames and she is not, however the kicks is a seguence of hitting and non hitting frames so better if u dont use it, or use at the end when she is recovering.

Sosage

04-15-2008, 01:59 PM

Thanks for the info Denki. :woot:

Kyouya

04-28-2008, 01:00 PM

Hello! I started to play Dic, and he is pretty funny!! But i have problems connecting his j.mk, s.lk, c.mk --> sissor, any tips with the timming? or this combo only works with specific characters? :wonder:

Gg gL & hF!!!

Airthrow

04-30-2008, 10:43 PM

Have you tried just doing st. lk, then cr. mk then scissors, then adding the jump in later?

Charge d/b to simulate charging in mid-air, then stand up and hold back and press lk quickly, then d/b+mk>scissors.

If you're jumping in, as soon as you leave the ground, hold back...

ParryPerson.

05-01-2008, 06:19 AM

also, you have to make sure and press forward only for the scissors, not just down-forward.

Kyouya

05-02-2008, 01:08 AM

Thanks for the tips guys!!! :tup:

Have you tried just doing st. lk, then cr. mk then scissors, then adding the jump in later?

Charge d/b to simulate charging in mid-air, then stand up and hold back and press lk quickly, then d/b+mk>scissors.

If you're jumping in, as soon as you leave the ground, hold back...

Ya, i need to dominate the ground combo first, then as you say, add the jump kick, however i think s.lk is too fast for my newbie fingers :sweat:

Again, thank you very much!!! :wgrin:

epsilon_

05-02-2008, 03:56 AM

you need to do the s.lk c.mk link pretty quickly btw.

practice that and you should have no problem.

Kyouya

05-09-2008, 02:53 PM

Which is best meaty attack of dictator? his c.mk, or have any other? and last question :sweat:, with wich characters works better?

Thanks :tup:

ParryPerson.

05-09-2008, 04:11 PM

Which is best meaty attack of dictator? his c.mk, or have any other? and last question :sweat:, with wich characters works better?

Thanks :tup:

cr.mk is his best meaty.

JubeiNinja69

05-10-2008, 01:04 AM

what's the best way to escape bison's trap when you're in the corner?

Sosage

05-10-2008, 11:10 PM

Thanks for the tips guys!!! :tup:

Ya, i need to dominate the ground combo first, then as you say, add the jump kick, however i think s.lk is too fast for my newbie fingers :sweat:

Again, thank you very much!!! :wgrin:

I've noticed that if you're in deep enough, you can get in 2 s.lk and then scissor. It may leave a bigger gap for escape/reversal, but you can also do s.lk, s.mk into scissor. *shrug* Just some options to try out when trying to find a corner trap. =P

Kyouya

06-02-2008, 03:31 AM

what's the best way to escape bison's trap when you're in the corner?

Obviously, it depends on your character. If the match is Bison vs Bison, you have no escape, unless you already have super. If your opponent make a mistake like a later scissor, or also a scissor too close, u can do a fierce psycho/reversal throw/jump, i think these are the only ways to escape. I do not know if a jab or short can also work.

I catch a lot of Bison players doing that corner trap :smile:

ilikemacaroni707

06-16-2008, 08:36 PM

I was wondering if anyone could help me vs chun :wasted: I seriously just keep getting shut down.

holy-diver

06-18-2008, 04:10 AM

There is a way to pressure zangief?? He throws me all day long...

M.S.G.

06-18-2008, 12:30 PM

NEVER, I REPEAT NEVER let him corner you. if that happens he'll siberian splash you all day long and the only way to escape is by using your super.

the strategy i find useful against zangief is the poke and run method. s.mk(or RH) and c.mk are very good pokes against him. i also like to pressure with light scissors, s. mk repeat; or after that string you can do a backward jump mk. it works well as an instant overhead, and is a good option if the zangief you are playing is good at reversal 360's. the main thing to remember is not to let him get close and use that s.mk(RH) to keep your space. and dont use psycho crushers! well, i suppose that lp. version would be fine in place of lk. scissors.

oh, cross him up if you have the chance. zangief has a pretty wide hit box. though im not too sure which one is better to use. (MK or RH)?

epsilon_

06-18-2008, 12:46 PM

if he lariats, slide.

holy-diver

06-18-2008, 01:29 PM

Thanks a lot guys!!!!!!!:rock:
I've another two question since I'm a bit new to ST:
Where I have to use psycho crusher properly?
And in pressure is better mk scissor kick or hk scissor kick??:pray:

M.S.G.

06-18-2008, 09:25 PM

mk and hk scissors are really punishable if blocked. for pressure use lk scissors. use mk or hk scissors in combos or links (i.e. c.mk > mk. scissors, this is a good punisher for whiffed dp's or flash kicks).

most nubes (including me when i started playing) will just do fierce psycho all day and then when the opponent blocks, nubes always go for the throw. this may have worked in CE but not ST.

i later found out that a blocked f.psycho gives you negative frames and your opponent has the advantage to throw or punish with a combo. if you mash punches after a blocked psycho, there is a slight chance you will be the one that throws (this is one of the random elements of ST). also if the fierce psycho goes all the through the blocking opponent, most characters can punish once bison is in front of them (i.e. free blanka c.fierce in bison's ass)

when playing bison play the poke (s.mk and s.hk) and pressure game (use the light versions of the specials when pressuring). don't rely on the fierce psycho.

holy-diver

06-19-2008, 05:07 AM

mmm....But psycho crusher have some use anyway???? Or it can be used only to punish other char's special on reaction???
Thanks in advice.:smile::pleased:

Kyouya

06-19-2008, 06:04 AM

Well i dont use so much the psycho i stick with scissor, but with psycho, u can punish blanka balls, when vega trying his wall jump and vega is to far of his corner, whiff strong/fierce dp's/boxer headbutts, and the most of missed aerial attacks.

But i suggest u to stick with the scissor, is dict main weapon :china:

M.S.G.

06-19-2008, 09:46 AM

when using scissors use the light version, and s. mk is a great poke (imo one of his best moves). it can stuff out projectiles when timed and spaced correctly.

and i forgot to mention his throw. dict. is has a good reversal (wake-up) throw. probably his best reversal if you dont have your bar filled up (seriously, his reversal options suck). and the animation of his throw is long enough so you can change for a special and execute it once the opponent is thrown for additional pressure. i personally like to do head stomp or psycho reverse

dict. is also a good character to tick with and as a good number of throw setups. after i crossup with roundhouse s.lk>throw then follow up with a meaty slide if the throw is softened. and if they anticipate the throw, i do lk(3x)>scissors (or psycho). after the cross up i also like to do s.lk(2x),c.lk>scissors/psycho, just in case if my opponent blocks the s.lk's and doesn't expect the low.

holy-driver, look up taira and yuuvega on youtube. that's where i picked up on some tips on how to play dict.

ShinVega

06-19-2008, 10:58 AM

NEVER, I REPEAT NEVER let him corner you. if that happens he'll siberian splash you all day long and the only way to escape is by using your super.
the strategy i find useful against zangief is the poke and run method. s.mk(or RH) and c.mk are very good pokes against him. the main thing to remember is not to let him get close and use that s.mk(RH) to keep your space. and dont use psycho crushers!

Actually, if he corners you just take one splash then reversal throw his cheap ass across the screen (trust me my friend loves to spin lariat and siberian splash all day). I really hate fighting this type of Gief because even though they know they're being lazy they always like to say, "We'll if it's the same move you should be able to do something about it," and you can, throw him then lock him down with the pokes MSG mentioned. Head stomp works wonders against him because his lariat won't catch it if you know how to control it (see my other posts) and his only other anti-air options aren't fast enough if your a quick thinker (setup with ground pokes & whiffs). Not tryin to Flame MSG good post btw.

M.S.G.

06-19-2008, 01:38 PM

Actually, if he corners you just take one splash then reversal throw his cheap ass across the screen.

thanx, never thought to try that. ill see if it works when i play my roomie. i think (dont quote me on this though) that gief's siberian splash gives him plus frames on hit, making the reversal throw harder to pull off. but ill still try it and see what happens.

COUM

06-19-2008, 01:53 PM

Yeah, I'm pretty sure he should have time to jump again before you'll even be able to throw him. Maybe you can jump strong the splash or close st.fierce it, but both are gonna be pretty damn hard to time if they even work...

M.S.G.

06-19-2008, 02:22 PM

dict. + corner = not a good place to be

i dont know of anything he can do aside from reversal throw or super that can get him out of the corner. when dict. is cornered, im pretty sure gief can splash him all day, honda can c.lp, ocho throw, repeat (look up kusumondo v. yuuvega), ryu can lock him down with fb's, etc.

just remember when you are playing dict., don't corner yourself and pressure your opponent relentlessly. his best defense is his offense.

holy-diver

06-19-2008, 02:37 PM

You are all awesome guys!!!!!!!
I've improved greatly my game!

But I have just another question..... I noticed that a lot of mind games, pressure strings etc work really well against human opponent, but when I have to fight the cpu at the hardest difficulty I'm easily raped. It's normale or I am the weaker Dic player in the world?

M.S.G.

06-19-2008, 02:47 PM

don't judge your play on how you do against the cpu. the cpu can be a bitch sometimes, especilly the cpu in HSF2 AE. i normally have to resort to cheap AI exploits to win, and it doesn't even feel like im playing SF at all. ive seen cpu guile do 2 sb's in a row, while both were still on screen. not humanly possible. the only way to get better is to play real people, around your level or even alot better than you (that's how i learn).

and dont forget to look up taira and yuuvega on youtube. probably the best dictator players in the world.

holy-diver

06-19-2008, 03:14 PM

I've seen yuuvega and he is ....marvelous!!!!!
But everytime I watch him I realize how much risks takes Bison to be played really well.

It's just
one error= corner= certain death for what I've learned 'til now.

vieja escuela

06-20-2008, 02:49 AM

I usually see in Dic top players videos, an intense use of the slide (down hk), especially after a knocking down of the opponent.

Since the slide is considered a risky option, I don't understand exactly its advantage with the other player on the ground.

Is it a method to cross-up or just a way to get closer to the other player at his standing up?

Airthrow

06-20-2008, 03:12 AM

It's a way of getting closer to the opponent while charging all of his moves so they can punish on wakeup.

vieja escuela

06-20-2008, 03:39 AM

It's a way of getting closer to the opponent while charging all of his moves so they can punish on wakeup.

Thx.

ilikemacaroni707

06-22-2008, 08:22 PM

I'm feelin no love in this thread Everyone just ignored my question about chun. :crybaby: Sooo... can anyone help me with facing chun? Everytime I face a decent chun user I get shut down.

M.S.G.

06-27-2008, 01:49 PM

I won't lie to you dude. Dic is a bad match up against Chun. I think that's why no one has responded to this tread in while cuz they don't know what do do against her either. lol. I myself don't know of a strategy that will work all the time but I will do my best:

Remember with Dic, your best defense is your offense. Pressure her with s.mk and l.scissors and throw when she's turtling. don't do psychos cuz her f.s.strong beats it out cleanly. and dont let her corner you, cuz his options to get out of the corner are pretty limited (super - if you have the bar, or reverse throw which is hard to time). when dic is cornered chun can just pressure with strong and throw. Muteki is quite good at this.

If the ground game fails, take to the air. This is where I think Dic has an advantage over chun. his j/f. strong, strong is really good as well as j/f. mk. They have good priority and will win out against most of jump attacks (j/f mk and neutral j.roundhouse are the only attacks of hers you should really worry about). I tend to use strong, strong more as I find it more consistent. neutral jump roundhouse is a good anti air if Chun does an obvious jump in. Using headstomps and the psycho reverse are also good tools for mindgames. The headstomp has decent priority and the psycho reverse is good for faking an attack while building meter at the some time. After I land a headstomp, I tend to retreat instead of trying to cross her up becasue her throw and her strong are just that scary. Plus it gives me more time to analyze wheter I should pressure on the ground or jump again.

All in all, this a bad matchup for Dic and you really have to play smart. My strategy is based on experience as well as watching yuuvega and taira vids. I know I missed alot of stuff on this matchup so feel free to expound on this, becuase I need help on this matchup as well. Chun is just that good!

ilikemacaroni707

06-28-2008, 11:46 AM

thx for the help dude. I somewhat figured out half of the stuff you told me from experience. But man Chun is just.... I just wanna :l::lk::lk::db::mk::r::hp: her up the butt. :annoy:

kmc

06-28-2008, 03:25 PM

I agree w/ MSG. Dic vs Chun hard match. Even j.strong loses to Chun's early j.short/forward. Chun can jump more as her wish because Dic has no effective ground anti-air against, and even if her jump ins are read Dic has not enough space control to do air-to-air. And bitch has a fireball to stop half of the sci-kicks....(SBO 07 HSF2 final)

SiMan

07-08-2008, 06:39 AM

ilikemacaroni707

07-08-2008, 10:10 AM

Hey all,

i'm a real beginner w/ ST and i've decided to play bison. I've started to grasp the basics with him, but i still don't understand the mechanics behind the devil reverse. It's not so much the followup punch attack you can do from it, but more the range of the initial part of the move.
Like is it the direction of the up+punch (ie. up+f, up, up+b) that controls the distance of the move, or the strength of the punch used?
Also, does the position of the opponent affect the way bison travels with this, or is the opponent's position not a factor?
I'm only really using it atm to build meter, and am relying more on the headstomp in other situations because i find it easier to control. What are the major uses for the devil reverse anyway? Guess if i was able to control it better i could understand its uses more.

Cheers in advance. I read earlier posts in this thread but i still couldn't understand it.]

Sometimes i use it to cross up. Like if you hop and go behind them, then press punch, and then make dictator go back in front. It may or may not confuse them to block the wrong way. But hey you get chip damage, and meter if you don't. If you've developed your opponent to expect a stomp after knockdown or something, you could throw in a devils reverse to mix it up. I haven't seen anyone else do this yet but, versus certain characters like guile, if i KNOW they gonna throw out a sonic boom/fireball then I'll use the hop from devils reverse to get into the corner or next to them. Usually for some odd reason players never expect this and its a field day for throwing or combos since you got them in the corner. Just don't rely on it too much since you can get hit out of it kinda easily. But yeah can someone explain when dictator hops REALLY high in the air? I could never figure out why that happens.

ShinVega

07-08-2008, 07:43 PM

I'll try and explain the mechanics of Devil Reverse [DR] and (on a lesser note) Head Stomp [HS]. The DR has two parts: the first part is the execution of the "Devil Jump done by inputting [chrge. dn (55 frames), Up+P]." That is the basic way to execute the first part. Here's the possibilities (after charging down obviously): the height & direction of the jump (speed) is determined by..... the direction you input [up/twds + P will yield a very low, extremely fast hyperbola in their direction, while up/away + P will cause dic to move slightly away from the opp.] The second part of the DR the Reverse part is executed by pressing punch again (this is where the strength of the punch will make a big difference) at some point in the air after executing the Devil Jump. The greater strength of the punch used the larger the reverse (dic makes a shape closely resembling a circle), however, the recovery time increases with each by 2 frames starting with 11 for jab. The DR also works off what the opp. does; as long as the opp. doesn't execute a move before you finish the input for the Devil Jump, it's trajectory won't be altered; however, if the opp. let's say jumps in place, depending on the kind of Devil Jump you performed, your Devil Jump will be altered [for the ex. if you had input Up/Twds+Fierce you will get a large hyperbola b/c the processor/engine will be set to have you going a certain height over your opp. at an instantaneous point in time (i.e. the game only sees the fighters [no ground for move height measurements] this is why you get some of the "crazyness" people talk about, and it's very useful to know how to access this "crazyness" feature at anytime so practice)]. Deep Breath..... The HS works pretty much in the same way but is far more useful; due to speed, instant hit on fireball reversals (easy to do), combo possibilities, cross up possibilities, and many other awsome factors :wgrin: I use HS all the time and confuse a lot of people with HS tricks and wicked crosses/mix-ups. Definately learn to use both PERFECTLY i.e. this information is mostly self taught with help from friends and math, and of course the YBH; and you'll benefit most by just practicing and playing against good dic players. If anyone sees anything wrong with anything I said here please let me know, or just post corrections.
Note: The DR is useful but only for tricks and attempts to confuse opp. can be used offensively, but I wouldn't recommend it [IMO]

NOTE: You can alter direction with any "air" move in the game by holding towards or away after each individual input.

SiMan

07-08-2008, 08:15 PM

Thanks for the replay ShinVega, it was exactly the info i needed!

I have found the headstomp alot easier and more straightforward to use, but my use with it is still very basic...

...*goes and watches more YuuVega and Taira matches*...

UltraDavid

07-09-2008, 11:28 AM

I've been trying to pick up Dictator lately. He's such a weird character, but also really interesting.

One trick I've had pretty good success with recently is when you're near your opponent as they're waking up, you can do headstomp on most characters without fear of getting hit because its hitbox is so strong, so they'll know to just try and block it. But you can mix that up with neutral-up devil's jump (without doing the reverse part) so that when they're looking to block a headstomp, you instead very quickly land right to them and throw them before they realize what's going on.

Another trick I've been using also has to do with the headstomp. As your opponent is waking up, you often want to do crouching forward, crouching forward on them, and if they mess up a throw or don't block for whatever reason, you cancel into scissor kicks for big damage and a possible dizzy. Everyone knows this, so everyone's pretty well trained to block low on wakeup for two crouching forwards. One way to mix this up is to then walk forward a bit and throw, but another way is to cancel the first crouching forward into a quick headstomp for a fast little overhead.

One question about that situation, though. Sometimes it seems like the headstomp comes very fast, and other times it seems like Dic kinda hovers in the air a bit beforehand, giving the opponent time to block. I always input the command the same way, so why does this happen sometimes? Is it random? Is it based on my opponent's character, maybe?

Sosage

07-11-2008, 05:38 PM

Check ShinVega's post...there was also a post earlier in this thread about the rules/properties of Dictators headstomp. Some of it has to do with the hitboxes of certain moves and how the headstomp will track and seak it out. Hitting fireballs with it, for example, is the headstomp seaking the opponent's hitbox during the fireball frames...as I understood it. Sometimes this weirdness will happen against DP's, where if done at a certain time the headstomp will just float over the dp, while when timed correctly the HS will hit the DP because of the hit box appearing at a specific point in the DP animation (or something like that...).

Goryus

07-11-2008, 07:02 PM

Ouroborus

07-13-2008, 04:35 PM

how exactly do you do bisons touch of death?

i'm playing ST bison in sf:ae and trying to do crossup mk, lk, lk, c.mk, hp psycho crusher.

the problem is getting the c.mk to connect as the 2 lks knock them back too far.

UltraDavid

07-13-2008, 04:43 PM

I've been having problems with that too. Is it character-specific?

UltraDavid

07-13-2008, 05:38 PM

Airthrow

07-13-2008, 11:49 PM

ShinVega

07-14-2008, 08:46 PM

Finally read through this whole thread, good stuff. Think I'm gonna start playing Dic as my 3rd guy now.

About getting tick thrown, obviously if the opponent is in your throw range (and only Sim, Honda, Gief, and Blanka have longer normal throw ranges) you wanna throw, but if you're not in range, your best bet is just to hold up (or up-back or up-toward) on the stick. Dictator gets airborne really fast (the fastest, maybe? seems like it, but does anyone have real data?),

Good advice for getting out of tick attempts. I just try to stay away from corners and getting locked down.

Here's the data for walking speed from T.Akiba's site (http://nki.combovideos.com/data.html#walking):

Fastest: Claw
2nd: Chun, Fei, and Dic

I can only "guess" that the walking speeds might be related to movement in any direction; therefore, I would assume that the walking speeds can be directly correlated to jumping speed (this is only an assumption). Which is not all that outlandish an idea since the programmers must have put in a speed/vector value for direction in all four coordinates [x,y,-x,-y] respective of the direction the player is facing of course]. Does this mean some players crouch faster than others, I think so, the game engine must have values/algorithms for every movement/action. So in conclusion, Dic does jump much faster than the other characters (according to the data from T.Akiba's website and the assumptions I made). I tested it on GGPOnfba by inputting the same controls for both 1st and 2nd player, selected diff. characters and Dic; then I just held up and waited for round to start. Sure enough dic jumped faster than most characters, Chun jumped slightly faster than Dic, and a little higher. I found out something else interesting, the speed of the jump also indicates the height of the jump (in SOME cases ex. of where it doesn't is Sim jumps very high but the slowest jumper). Claw jumps the highest and the fastest (for sure). I'll add more later, if anyone sees anything wrong let me know.

Airthrow

07-15-2008, 12:34 AM

I would be really interested if you could test frame by frame if everyone crouches different speeds, because my understanding of the game is that everyone crouches and stands up (from a crouching position, not waking up) exactly the same. Otherwise there'd be cases where only certain characters would have time to block low, but everyone seems to block the same speed to me.

Does anyone have any thoughts on Dic's best matchups and why? This thread IMO is a lot less informative than the Boxer thread. There's six pages and I still haven't seen a clear, concise explanation of how Devil's Reverse works, and a couple descriptions of TODs, not a whole lot of tactics at all...

yuuki

07-15-2008, 07:39 AM

Airthrow:

The devils reverse is a good move when appropriate. Its uses are building meter, getting over fireballs, fake outs, getting to the other side of the screen, and attacking from above where the only answer for it is to block. You should be able to figure out how it works by experimenting with it.

The touch of death combo is generally cross up rh > 2 st. shorts > cr. forward x fierce psycho crusher.

However other combos have a high tendency to dizzy opponents as well. For example: Jump in strong, st. short, cr. forward x rh scissor kicks.

Bison doesnt really have one match up where he excels from my experience.

What a lot of bison players get stuck on is going for his high damage combos when really theres a lot to him, and you can win without dizzying them

Professor Jones

07-15-2008, 10:47 AM

(and only Sim, Honda, Gief, and Blanka have longer normal throw ranges)

Boxer's mp throw range is longer than normal too.

Airthrow

07-15-2008, 02:39 PM

Yuuki, what I meant was the directions/buttons for controlling the Devil's reverse, I have only really figured out that up/towards+jab is best to avoid fireballs and build meter, and up/towards+fierce is best for flying away. What are neutral up and up/back for?

I've seen some players change directions with DR in mid air and go a completely different way, does anyone know the exact input for how that's done?

Also, what is the best combo you can do after the devil's reverse, punch lands? Standing mk?

ilikemacaroni707

07-25-2008, 11:42 AM

Hey I'm having trouble with offensive sims. Whenever I play sims that just like to keep me out it feels like a field day for me :looney:. But whenever I play sims that just play balls out and drill the fuck outta me/aggresive zoning I really just don't understand the situation and what to do. Also there are no sims that play like that on ggpo which is the only way I can get competition :sad:.

efx

07-25-2008, 01:56 PM

Is there a list of what attacks you need to block the cross up like it's a cross up versus as a regular attack?

It seems that Ryu's crossup RH needs to be blocked as if it was not a cross up.

ShinVega

07-25-2008, 03:22 PM

As far as a comprehensive list for every character as to the direction to block x's (cross ups), I don't know of one that exists. Example. Ryu's RH x should be blocked in the opposite direction you were initially facing; however, sometimes people will play mind games and not actually x and you'll end up blocking the wrong direction. One very tough x to block IMO would be gief's Siberian Splash (j.d+Fierce). Might buy the Yoga Book Hyper, it's helped me out quit a bit with questions like these as all the hit box diagrams are in there.

orochizoolander

07-25-2008, 03:55 PM

So is anyone else hyped to play remixed dictator? Fake slide that goes as far as the real one except it doesn't hit of course will make walk up throw even easier, invincible st jab will probably be a much better anti air then j.mp and devils reverse is invincible on startup so he'll be able to escape corner pressure much easier.

Dic sounds toptier to me =) Any thoughts on how these buffs will affect his matchups and overall game play?

UltraDavid

07-25-2008, 05:03 PM

He sounds top tier for sure, but also really dumb. In my opinion his antiair options and lack of a non-super reversal make him a really weird but very interesting character, one of the most unique in the game, and I like playing under that all-or-nothing mindset. He's really getting homogenized here, and I think that's stupid. Also it just seems bad to me from a balance point of view to address all of his weaknesses in such excellent ways and then even give him some totally out-of-the-blue fake move without nerfing any part of his game at all, especially when the situation where he's weakest (caught in the corner by a grappler) is already being taken out because Hawk, Gief, and Honda (reportedly) all now have more/some bounceback after their command grabs.

Battosai

08-01-2008, 06:39 PM

Here is a link for a Tournament match vid between Thomas Osaki(Bison with the blue and gold color and Alex Valle(HF color ST ryu). This from evo 2k2. This match is towards the end of the vid

http://zachd.com/mvc2/matches/Evolution/evo2k2/evo2002%20super%20turbo%20highlights%20hour%201.wm v

Yo' Daddy

08-05-2008, 08:43 AM

ok so i have a problem with the crossup TOD combo

crossup j.rh > s.lk > c.mk > scissor/crusher doesnt work for me. the scisssor/crusher never seems to come out. is there a trick to charging for this? if im facing right before crossing up, and i jump to the right over the opponent and keep holding right while doing the combo, is that sufficient charge time?

crossup j.rh > s.lk x2 > c.mk > scissor/crusher works for me, but i cant do s.lk x2 > cmk consistently, so i want to be able to do the previous version of the TOD combo.

any help is appreciated

Footsy Bebop

08-05-2008, 08:55 AM

I think if you're going to do one s.lk, you have to use the crusher, not the scissor. I think the crusher takes slightly less charge time.

epsilon_

08-05-2008, 09:14 AM

the first "tod" shouldn't be a crossup, it's just jumpin j.rh, s.lk, c.mk xx rh scissors.

the crossup combo into scissors is crossup j.rh, s.lk x2, c.mk xx rh scissors.

UltraDavid

08-05-2008, 09:52 AM

Actually the crossup version is preferable, both because it does more damage and because it's a lot easier to actually hit the opponent because of how ambiguous and variable his crossups are. And for some characters, the better crossup jumpin is jumping forward, but I'm not enough of a dedicated Bison player to remember exactly which ones are better crossed up with roundhouse and which with forward. Also, don't always do the scissors to end the combo, pay attention to where you are on screen to decide whether to do scissors or crusher. If you're in the corner when your combo starts, finish with crusher to get out of there, both as an escape hatch in case you mess up and because otherwise you can't set up for another crossup combo.

Be sure to mix up the jump-in between fake crossup and crossup, you don't want to give the opponent an easy block. As Bison, you don't need to change the location of the start of your jump to do this mix up, you just have to change the timing of the actual jump-in attack; always jump from the same spot, but if you do the attack a bit earlier it hits from the front, and if you do it a bit later it hits from the back.

Ouroborus

08-05-2008, 02:03 PM

bison needs his alpha teleport so he wont be ticked to death in the corner. or in sims case, yoga flamed to death.

epsilon_

08-05-2008, 02:12 PM

well, i said shouldn't because he was wondering why it wouldn't work with one s.lk. you don't have time to charge the scissors with only 1.

fatboy

08-05-2008, 03:27 PM

I was talking to GIGA-MSX about this one day.

I asked why he NEVER goes for the the c/u mk> cr.lk *2> cr. MK > Scissor Kick.

He said "whats the point."

The c/u mk> cr.lk *2> cr. MK > crusher is way easier to do, comes out 100% and dizzies 99% of the time. He could not really think of many matches where he hit that combo and lost.

He then asked me the question, why wouldn't you go for easiest combo with an ultra high dizzy %. Other than to simply show off, I couldn't give him a real response

It is true, the scissor combo does do a bit more damage, and dizzies 100%. However, there is a much larger margin of error to mess up the combo and totally lose your opportunity to punish. You have to charge the scissor 30% longer than the crusher, so the is a much higher chance to botch the whole thing.

As stated on Nohoho's page. Yuu Vega's most feared combo is:

"bonk, bip, bip, whap, frrrrroosh -> woo woo woo woo
shhh, bip, bip, whap, thwak, thwak -> peace out"

I am sure we all know this combo, and I am sure we all know why it is so fucking scary!

Just my 2 cents. I am not a bison expert. So, it is worh it weight. :razz:

Yo' Daddy

08-06-2008, 02:33 AM

cheers Footsy Bebop, Ultradavid, epsilon and Fatboy

that answered my question perfectly!

shortpitched713

08-12-2008, 04:11 PM

Hol Horse

08-13-2008, 06:11 PM

A new Dic player here. Had a question about one of the translations to Yoga Book Hyper for Dic, which can be found here. (http://www.super-turbo.net/sbc/data/ybh/dictator.html)

The fourth string starts with jab psycho crusher, slide kick (as it ends). I'm wondering just what the hell that means. Is it assuming that either the crusher or the slide knockdown? And in that case how would it be any different from any other knockdown? Or if its assuming that both get blocked then that doesn't make any sense either, since slide is like the unsafest move in the game. :wonder:

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated!

I'm pretty sure it means that the string can start with either jab psicho crusher or the slide but ONLY if the slide hits in its final couple frames (like at the maximum possible range or meaty timed so that it obtains the main effect). Obviosuly you're gonna use the jab crusher starter quite more often

Mixah

08-13-2008, 07:29 PM

As my third character, I'm subscribing to this thread.

The Furious One

08-21-2008, 01:07 AM

Mixah

08-21-2008, 06:41 AM

goddamn...

orochizoolander

08-21-2008, 01:33 PM

Wtf!

Daddyneptune

08-21-2008, 04:53 PM

Yo' Daddy

08-22-2008, 05:20 AM

how am i supposed to deal with gief? i always find myself getting ticked to death after a knockdown, reversal lariat beats my crossup attempts, and his body splash has godly priority. But apparently this is a 5-5 matchup according to T.Akiba chart http://www.super-turbo.net/sbc/data/diagrama/diagrama.html

what can i do to even up the odds, as from personal experience i only win 10% of my games against gief

Footsy Bebop

08-22-2008, 10:14 AM

Yo' Daddy

08-24-2008, 09:23 PM

whenever i do the s.mk and s.hk poking, i eventually get lariated and knocked down (which sets up gief's tick spd).... i can go from having a massive life lead, to getting knocked down by lariat just once and losing the round because of the repeated tick SPDs.

am i right in saying that reversal lariat beats all crossup attempts? or is it just my bad timing?

Mavrick

08-24-2008, 10:30 PM

Ya your right when he's spinning hes invinciable too all attacks except to his head or feet so if you cross and dont hit hes head your going to get hit, the best way to cross is after you knock him down do a cross befor he gets to his feet. He stands up the slowest of all the fighters so you have a better chance then. Try using your knee press more aginist his lariate its a 80, 30 chance that you'll win with it

Mavrick

08-24-2008, 10:41 PM

footsy with standing forward, standing roundhouse, keep your distancing right, last hit of scissor kick from far away, never do two hits on scissor kick or youll get SPDed, and occasional low roundhouse to reverse lariats

We'll your half right you can do your knee press on him as much as you want when he's blocking and, not get hit just make sure its the weak kick (short Kick) when you do it hold jump back to get away it works 80% of the time and when you jump away make sure that you kick in the air just in case he tries to follow you. You'll hit him...

If you don't believe just google DAVID SIRLIN"S EVO 2007 OR 2008 ST matches

wongamfai

08-25-2008, 12:13 PM

Giga just posted this video on youtube.

Video of Tira escaping Zangief corner trap

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEtCWmlud7c

I would of thought it was luck, but Giga explains how it is done F*ing sick

Taira did something similar to that before against a Dhalsim at a Mikado Ranking Battle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hz9MocEjBNI

FreddyL0c0

09-02-2008, 11:01 PM

aren't they the same person? (Taira/Tira)

man, i was watching some bison matches yesterday, and this japanese guy kept using standing jab as an ANTI-AIR against shotos, followed by ambiguous meaty slide, into insta-overhead/crouching medium kick/sex/stomp. It was just to delicious

but yo, I know this shit WOULDNT work against say Gief, or max distanced jumps.

and that corner escape from Gief that was posted was uncanny

The Furious One

09-03-2008, 01:59 AM

Yo' Daddy

09-15-2008, 02:24 AM

The Furious One

09-15-2008, 05:22 AM

ok more on the touch of death.

For those that do Crossup HK/MK > st.lk x 2 > cr.mk > FP Psycho

do you mash on the lk button to get the st.lk x 2, or do you use 2 correctly timed button presses?

I try mashing and I get it maybe 20% lol, maybe I'm not fast enough but I am using my left hand since i use a kb ¯\(°_o)/¯

also, do more people use 2 standing lks, or just 1?

You shouldnt mash with M.Bison he really is all about timing, character like Dee Jay you can mash that combo and get away with it.

You can use 2 or 3 standing l.kicks but I think if you use 3 you will have to go straight into scissor kick as you might move out of range.

I was planning to move to stick, but after picking up M.Bison Im having too much fun on keyboard again. :wgrin:

SiMan

09-25-2008, 06:01 PM

Ok, a real noob question here...
see when people list standard bison combos ending in "scissor", what strength of scissor am i supposed to be doing?
Or does it depend on whether the combo is being blocked or not?

Cheers!

Desk

09-25-2008, 06:14 PM

dude, we have some kind of telepathy going on I'm sure, lol. I'm here randomly looking for some info.

Generally, if you're comboing don't use short and if you've got a block string going, do use short.

Short SK will combo against almost everyone after 'st. short, cr. forward xx SK' but it can whiff on cammy, chun and possibly claw (I think). If you've got a guaranteed combo anyway use roundhouse. That little bit of extra space you'll cover is worth it and there's no risk.

EDIT: oh yeah I knew I had a question. Is there a list of his match ups anywhere? just checked the wiki and couldn't see one. Anyone who uses him in tournaments want to post up a very quick run down?

fluxcore

09-25-2008, 06:52 PM

Is there a list of his match ups anywhere? just checked the wiki and couldn't see one. Anyone who uses him in tournaments want to post up a very quick run down?

http://curryallergy.blogspot.com/2008/09/super-diagram-turbo-version-2.html

That do?

SiMan

09-25-2008, 07:02 PM

Great minds think alike desk! Cheers for the info...need to get practisin for the next SvC. lol

Desk

09-26-2008, 04:39 AM

http://curryallergy.blogspot.com/2008/09/super-diagram-turbo-version-2.html

That do?

of course! thanks dude. I had already seen that but I'd completely forgotten about it. thanks.

I think what put me off was how silly some of the numbers were for match ups I already know. Meaning I couldn't take the other numbers (for match ups i didn't know) seriously.

I say this even though I realise a lot of work was put into getting the info and compiling the list. And that nohoho is awesome, lol. It's just a little too random and when I dont' recognise player names I don't know who's opinion to pay attention to.

To be honest I'm not too bothered about even having numbers and stuff just who he wins/loses against.

Siman, I've actually got some sick new tactics to show you next time you're round. Get practicing dude!!!

shortpitched713

10-14-2008, 02:32 AM

N-Trade

10-14-2008, 10:29 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THBnkEccPq8

Neat corner pattern from Taira starting at around 2:22. I'm assuming it was st. short, cr. forward, crusher but I may be wrong.

I wonder if any of you'all know what strength crusher that is? Also, is that pattern only useful against sim, or can you use that against other characters as well? Thanks all.

I think it's strong psycho crusher

http://curryallergy.blogspot.com/2008/08/tairas-trickery-and-other-tales-from.html

shortpitched713

10-14-2008, 01:20 PM

I think it's strong psycho crusher

http://curryallergy.blogspot.com/2008/08/tairas-trickery-and-other-tales-from.html

Great link there!

I guess then that a fool-proof trap only works for characters without a reversal (sim, dic)?

Mavrick

10-14-2008, 06:58 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THBnkEccPq8

Neat corner pattern from Taira starting at around 2:22. I'm assuming it was st. short, cr. forward, crusher but I may be wrong.

I wonder if any of you'all know what strength crusher that is? Also, is that pattern only useful against sim, or can you use that against other characters as well? Thanks all.

(DIC) does not have a fool proof corner trap. it only works if the person your doing it on does not conter or jump after he SC or SK he has a short pause befor you can do a mave and that gives them a chance to make there moves but, its just harder if you dont have a reversal

Mavrick

10-14-2008, 07:23 PM

Shadowless

10-14-2008, 10:09 PM

(DIC) does not have a fool proof corner trap. it only works if the person your doing it on does not conter or jump after he SC or SK he has a short pause befor you can do a mave and that gives them a chance to make there moves but, its just harder if you dont have a reversal

According to mister nohoho, he does. "When done properly, this Psycho Magic is airtight. The Dhalsim player must hope their opponent mistimes a jab so they can throw or teleport." That's only necessarily true for Dhalsim in the far corner, but still.

Great video.

The Furious One

10-15-2008, 04:36 AM

And here's the Touch of death vid...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eaOYqvTQtQ

Its pretty easy to pull off, that Sagat one is just evil, just makes you wonder how big a monster he will be in HDremix

Bilskirnir

10-30-2008, 01:20 AM

Super moves/tricks/tactis baby!:

Light Psycho Crusher(blocked)+Super can be ok to use sometimes,this was a trick i started playing around with, since if you can scissor kick from it,why not try a super? Usually people will want to poke you after you land the crusher.Using it against Honda or Claw helped me a few times,and it is indeed a nice surprise move...because I,myself,have never seen the Japs or American players utilize this trick,but please do care to inform me.

Tho,you have to time this very slowly.from right when you land...just do the super slow,there's nothing quite like pulling this off and having your opponent fall for it,it's exhilarating.

Or,if you slide against a character on Wakeup+Super,they may try to poke you and you'll land some nice dmg.I always forget to try this trick tho.When I say that,you do the slide so that it hits them on wakeup,and it gives you a little bit of distance from them after hitting the slide,then input the super move.

And also for light psycho crusher mix-ups,you can either head-stomp from it or scissor kick from it.Both are nice to use.

For Standing Fierce-punch,I have found this move very very useful in matches at many times,tho you have to be pretty early for it,or rather expect it (have it on your mind).It will trade or sometimes hit cleanly off,depending on the distance of certain characters..it does well against T-Hawks jumping Jab,most of Zangiefs jump ins,Guiles jumping Medium Kick (Will hit cleanly most of the time,actually this punch is very good to use against guile,or so i've seen so far),Bison's Juggle Punch,etc.I very much like this normal over his jumping Juggle,or maybe I have to practice the reaction time on how to use it,haha.
Oh btw it may trade or hit clean off,Dhalsims Drill.Im pretty sure it will cleanly kill Sims flying headbutt.

Basically from watching Mike Watsons match vs Cole,it made me look into this normal more and study it's capabilities(Watson was the one to give me insight into the power side of Bison,through his videos, as well) and I must say,it is not bad at all to use...I don't know if it's just me,but I think some people under-estimate the potential of this normal.Also,sometimes you can hit a character cleanly off and still retain a good distance against them,altho the juggle is superior,since you earn a free knock down,next to your opponent,sometimes the standing fierce punch may defeat/trade moves that the juggle cannot even be used on (you'll just get beat from air-counters).Also,I like to refer to the Standing Fierce punch as the "Edge Punch".

Good anti airs: Standing+Jump Fierce Kick,Standing Jump + low-kick/punch,Juggle,Standing fierce punch,sometimes a crouching short kick,much like how Ryu/Ken can defeat aerial attacks with a crouching sweep,Crouching fierce punch is sometimes good to use aganist a shoto character,if they use a jump kick.,but I noticed that the distance is a little tweaked from New Challengers onto ST,so again,depends on distance and is not 100%.

Corner lock-down:Jumping low kick/punch>standing low kick>crouching med.kick/punch>medium crusher,wash,rinse,repeat.PS: I hate standard move connotation,so I just use these,bare with me.

If you want to learn Bison,then you have to learn how to abuse his throws,he has great walking speed and nice throw range,so this is mandatory to learn.Throw the hell out of your opponents if you have to,just so long as you get the job done.Remember,throwing opens new opportunities for attack.With the right mix-ups,you can really destroy your opponents.

Sorry if it's long/mixed up,but i'm kinda drunk right now.lol

If anyone wants to correct me on my post,please do so!

Btw,anyone have tips for Bisons Juggle+Super? I can never seem to get it off.

SiMan

10-31-2008, 03:23 PM

Why do some players use jumping short when going for non-crossup combos?
Don't think i've seen it used as a crossup for obvious reasons.

Cheers

UltraDavid

10-31-2008, 03:31 PM

Standing fierce eats drills and mummy for breakfast, but it's hard to time. You basically have to start the move before Sim starts his drill, or else do it from far enough away so that the Sim player shouldn't have even done it in the first place.

Also, crouching forward xx scissors is a better way to deal with Hawk's jumping jab, beats it for free.

Jumping short is a great jump-in because it makes a really great safe jump. If you're just jumping in on your opponent when they're already standing, well, first, why are you doing that, but second, you won't use short, you'll use forward or roundhouse or strong.

SiMan

10-31-2008, 03:44 PM

Dang that was quick! lol

Thanks man

Bilskirnir

11-01-2008, 11:04 PM

The Furious One

11-05-2008, 12:38 PM

Is there any specific use for the jumping fierce and crouching fierce. Haven't found a single situation to use them instead of strong or his kicks?

SweetJohnnyV

11-05-2008, 01:48 PM

Is there any specific use for the jumping fierce and crouching fierce. Haven't found a single situation to use them instead of strong or his kicks?

I'm not an expert with him, but I can tell you from the other side of a coin that crouching fierce can be a good opening against Dhalsim. From that range, sim's st.MK beat almost anything Bison can do. But cr.FP beats sim's poke.

I think I've also seen cr.FP used against ryu. Maybe as anti-air or against hurricane kicks? I forget.

ShinVega

11-05-2008, 10:54 PM

I'd say one use for c.Fierce is anti-air (I've got the YBH so the following comes from pg.96 for reference). It has a large attack box that completely covers the hit box from above, but not much lee-way. Here's the thing about it, you need to execute it slightly early (as it has 9 start up frames). It does have slightly greater range than cr.strong though; but, it has 19 frames of recovery so you'd be WIDE open. Kind of a novelty once in awhile mix up normal IMO, or a rare trade (NOTE: IT WILL beat dic's s.Foward if timed correctly [i.e. correct timing for 2 extra start up frames]).

Jumping Up Fierce can be used in place of j.u.jab, but you'd have to time it well as it has 6 startup, and only 10 hitting frames. Jump in Fierce I really can't see a use except for air to ground (when done from as far as possible) as the attack box is large and covers up the hit box for dic, fairly well. One of the only characters that could counter it with anti air normal would be Dj's s.Strong, it would trade with his s.Fierce or might beat it (kinda hard to eyeball).

Personally when I play another dic player and they wanna start poking, I will occasionally (when I'm not PC the wiff) use cr.Fierce to break the chain; but the recovery is so poor.

Anyways hope that helps.

The Furious One

11-06-2008, 07:51 AM

Thanks ShinVega :tup:

zaspacer

11-14-2008, 05:17 AM

i came across this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKVjpAGnMTQ which explains when bison's torpedo will cross up or not
which until i saw this video i thought was random.

*edit* please note that this is if Dic is player 1.....if Dic is player 2 please reverse left corner for right corner and vice versa. thanks nohoho

when the opponent is in the left corner
Torpedo will not cross up but Scissor Kick will
But when they are on the Right corner: both Torpedo and Scissor kick will cross up
Ryu
Ken
Guile
Sim
Boxer
Claw
Bison

When these character are in the Left Corner: Torpedo will cross up but Scissor Kick won't.
When these characters are in the Right Corner: both will cross up
Honda
Fei Long
Zangief
Sagat

When these characters are on the Left or Right Corners:
Torpedo will cross up but the Scissor Kicks won't
Blanka
Dee Jay

When these Characters are in the Left corner:
torpedo will not cross up but Scissor Kicks will
When they are in the Right corner: neither will cross up.
Cammy
Chun Li

When he is in the left corner: Torpedo won't cross up but Scissor Kicks will
When he is in the right corner: Torpedo will cross up but Scissor kicks won't
Hawk

I made some simple reference images to help players tackle the special cross-ups for each matchup from each player side:
http://streetfighterdojo.com/superturbo/dictator/specialcrossups/

I suggest that before your match starts on GGPO, that you just:
1) look for the image with your opponent's character
2) pick whether you are Player 1 or Player 2
3) then make a mental note per the image of which specials work on which side

I'll try to clean up this page and add some supporting reference pages (like youtube matchup links) to the link at some point.

fatboy

11-14-2008, 09:33 AM

I made some simple reference images to help players tackle the special cross-ups for each matchup from each player side:
http://gizmo.zendfree.com/superturbo/dictator/specialcrossups/

I suggest that before your match starts on GGPO, that you just:
1) look for the image with your opponent's character
2) pick whether you are Player 1 or Player 2
3) then make a mental note per the image of which specials work on which side

I'll try to clean up this page and add some supporting reference pages (like youtube matchup links) to the link at some point.

That is sick!:woot:

tsukihimeblood

11-14-2008, 09:38 AM

orochizoolander

11-24-2008, 10:00 AM

In anticipation of sthd I decided to get some practice on ccc2 and I'm having an impossible time doing even simple combos like j hk, cr mk, torpedo. I can't do charge specials at the end of combos so I'm thinking I just didn't charge early enough? I'm also having a slightly difficult time consistently landing crossups because of his jumping arc I land in front of way behind the opponent but that to I guess is my own scrubby execution.

Mixah

11-24-2008, 10:19 AM

double charge fool

easy way to get charge supers into combos (i do this with blanka and dj, not so much dic)

blanka easy c.mk x2, super cancel (not that you'd ever need this)

hold downback, c.mk, downforward, downback+mk, f+piano punches

orochizoolander

11-24-2008, 03:03 PM

Thanks but it's not with supers it's with incorporating regular charge moves into combos I have a problem with. Oh well I hope comboing on stick is easier then ps2 pad lol.

Mixah

11-24-2008, 03:04 PM

try c.lk, s.lk, psycho. that's a bit easier, i think.

orochizoolander

11-24-2008, 03:08 PM

LOL I must really suck with ps2 pad so I hope the ccc2 lag the fact that I'm playing it on an hdtv on a ps3 may have something to with it because it really feels like something is off my inputs don't come out normally like they do on st on my laptop but th for the help anyways.

MinhHoang

11-24-2008, 03:35 PM

Mixah

11-24-2008, 04:12 PM

you're going to have a hard time with that. the only safe option, as far as i know is to either just hang out and wait for him to move in and counter... or jumping mp.

MinhHoang

11-24-2008, 04:16 PM

I've seen players do it into TOD to fight hondas, but I can't seem to land it consistently. I guess its a reaction/type thing.

Mixah

11-24-2008, 04:24 PM

yeah, that's a bit hard to do.. i can't do that for shit... but i'm a scrubby ass dictator player

zaspacer

11-24-2008, 09:08 PM

Hey guys, I just picked up dictator (loving it), but I'm having some problems w/ countering honda's headbutt w/ jump back rh. Is there a certain way to time it because I've been getting hit even when the RH clearly should hit the headbutt.

Dictator's jumping back roundhouse only hits if you get his foot to hit on the very front side of Honda's headbutt.
Otherwise, you're better off jumping back into the corner so that you can combo Honda with roundhouse AFTER he hits the corner and is in recovery.

zaspacer

11-25-2008, 11:52 AM

Here is a link to a webpage that lists links to youtube character matchups for ST Dictator:
http://streetfighterdojo.com/superturbo/dictator/dictatormatches.html

Most the players are Japanese, and most the footage is from Japanese Tournaments.

I wanted to get this out before the release of STHD.
My HTML skills are pretty weak, so the formatting is still rough.
This is a collection of links that I have had for some time, and I have found personally useful in improving my game.

The BEST way I have found to use these links, is to reference the appropriate ones AFTER I get my butt kicked by a particular character.
That way I'm hungry to pick up specific things that will help me in that matchup.

Enjoy!

Logos

11-25-2008, 01:41 PM

Good shit, man. Appreciate you throwing that up. :tup:

MinhHoang

11-28-2008, 04:20 PM

OH! Okay, thanks that makes so much more sense. Dude, thanks so much for the vids.

JMD

12-02-2008, 11:12 AM

I play on GGPO all the time, and main Dic. I go by the name nocandoken. But I have a problem doing his standard combos online, might be my set-up or lag or whatever, so I've come up with a new technique I call the Head Stomp Rush.

Basically, you repeat head stomps, coupled with assorted normal attacks, to catch the opponent off guard or even put them in a quasi-lockdown state.

Example-

The easiest way to see this is to bust out the training mode and put T-Hawk in the corner. (Large characters are easier to perform this on).

Do a head stomp on Hawk in the right corner, let's say. Charge down the entire time, all the while holding right. As you come down from the head stomp, do a Skull Crusher (Diver?) at the last possible moment. I usually use fierce.

Now, as soon as you hit the ground, push up+short. You'll keep Hawk in blockstun with the short, and negative edge (or button-up) the next head stomp. Repeat.

-

It can be very difficult to block, since the skull crusher actually crosses up in the corner, and if it hits, the short will connect as well. You can also use cr. forward, .etc. perhaps linking into a quick combo.

This can also be done mid-screen. Just home in on the opponent with the skull crusher. Make sure to throw in throws to keep them guessing.
-

Now this isn't a substitution for knee-press pressure, bu I think it's a viable tool to add to your arsenal. It does of course have it weaknesses-

Smart/quick/experienced players can easily counter the head stomps or skull crushers. Most characters have an anti-air that stuffs either, or you can easily jump and mash to hit Dic out of the loop. BUT, once the opponent starts doing this, you can use that knowledge to your advantage.

Guile always cr. fierces you? Simply land close and throw. Opponent always jump RH you? Fly back and catch them with a j. strong juggle. More guessing games, and you are on the offensive.

-

Also, it can be tough to cross up some characters in the corner...Chun and Rog come to mind, so be wary of that. You'll get thrown for free if you mess it up.

It's a high risk-reward set-up perfect for Dic. I wish I had some vids to show, since it looks spectacular when it works. The standing short into head stomp is very quick and *proffessional* looking lol.

Give it a try! I haven't seen anyone doing this and it's fun, looks cool, catches people off guard, and I forgot to mention...it's an ABSOLUTE noob killer.:rofl:

trinifella1

12-03-2008, 01:20 AM

anyone know a good and consistent way of comboing the super (besides the anti air). And if you do, put down the entire input instead of something like st. short cr. forward xx super.

The fact that this never got answered leads me to believe that Bison is one character that we shouldn't even focus on trying to combo the super with. Probably better to just use it for reversals. But if we were obsessed with combos ending in the super (like i am with most characters), they would be extremely limited and difficult to say the very least with Bison. Think about it, the most bufferable move is probably cr. mk and most of his combos start of with a jumping attack then s. short (or s. short x 2), followed by the cr. mk. You normally have to input the cr. mk quickly after the shorts quickly so trying to buffer the super in that millisecond would be a major headache. Am i right? Hmm maybe a meaty cr. mk, d/b, d/f, d/b +mk, f+k would work. Course you would have to start charing way in advance by sliding up to the person when you knock them down

zaspacer

12-03-2008, 10:08 AM

The fact that this never got answered leads me to believe that Bison is one character that we shouldn't even focus on trying to combo the super with. Probably better to just use it for reversals. But if we were obsessed with combos ending in the super (like i am with most characters), they would be extremely limited and difficult to say the very least with Bison. Think about it, the most bufferable move is probably cr. mk and most of his combos start of with a jumping attack then s. short (or s. short x 2), followed by the cr. mk. You normally have to input the cr. mk quickly after the shorts quickly so trying to buffer the super in that millisecond would be a major headache. Am i right? Hmm maybe a meaty cr. mk, d/b, d/f, d/b +mk, f+k would work. Course you would have to start charing way in advance by sliding up to the person when you knock them down

I don't know any of the answers to your questions.

I rarely see YuuVega (http://streetfighterdojo.com/superturbo/dictator/dictatormatches.html) tack his super into combos.
I think this might be because:
1) Dictator's combos (with a charge) already do a massive amount of damage and often dizzy, and
2) Dictator's Super allows him a great resource that no other move he has can replace.

Check out 3 Dictator combos using Super here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tIh1ni026w&feature=related
(starting at 4:38)

MinhHoang

12-03-2008, 02:24 PM

lol JMD, I've just started using your headstomp techniques and its helping me out quite a bit with my rushdowns. Thanks again for showing me in game.

trinifella1

12-03-2008, 06:52 PM

I don't know any of the answers to your questions.

I rarely see YuuVega (http://gizmo.zendfree.com/superturbo/dictator/matches/dictatormatches.html) tack his super into combos.
I think this might be because:
1) Dictator's combos (with a charge) already do a massive amount of damage and often dizzy, and
2) Dictator's Super allows him a great resource that no other move he has can replace.

Check out 3 Dictator combos using Super here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tIh1ni026w&feature=related
(starting at 4:38)

Hey thanks for that video man. I remember seeing it a while back but I only looked at the Dee Jay part. But yea I agree with what you said as well

denki

12-09-2008, 08:16 PM

Do a head stomp on Hawk in the right corner, let's say. Charge down the entire time, all the while holding right. As you come down from the head stomp, do a Skull Crusher (Diver?) at the last possible moment. I usually use fierce.

it sounds interessing but i think that after 1 time u do that in a loop with a reversal they can easy counter

JMD

12-27-2008, 10:48 PM

In this match, Yoshio (Guile) vs. Taira (Dic), Taira does a walk-up super at :55-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZ1JpnijstA&feature=channel_page

Is this just an extremely late kick input, or is there something else going on?

Either way, it looks pretty good.

UltraDavid

12-28-2008, 02:05 AM

It's just an extremely late input. And yeah, it's pretty cool.

denki

12-28-2008, 10:11 AM

It's just an extremely late input. And yeah, it's pretty cool.
Yeah i think that me too, from when u finish the input of the lever to when u activate the move pushing the button there is a fraction of seconds (about 0,1 seconds) that u can wait so when he finished the input of the nightmare he kept the lever forward and after a while he pushed the botton of K, in that "while" he made the step. Easy to say not easy to do, but you know Taira is a genius.

MAR

12-31-2008, 05:28 PM

How can I keep my opponent in the corner? In other words, which is the better corner trap.

denki

01-02-2009, 01:11 AM

almost everyone can escape because everyone (except dhalsim and vega) have invincible special moves however 2 common corners traps are:

. psico magic: s.lk,c.mk,psycho crusher mp, after 2 hits repeat, it works well against dhalsim.

. s.lk, no cancel dkp lk, it works quite well in vega vs vega with other characters u have to pay many attenction.

AJrandom

01-05-2009, 09:47 PM

2. Use a c.fierce to counter the body splash every time. note: dic's c.fierce has nine frames of start up and six hitting frames so time it well. It works b/c of the hit box locations.

Can Zangief's body splash be beaten by cr.fierce consistently? And if so do you guys have any tips for timing it, or an example on youtube or something?

ShinVega

01-06-2009, 01:30 AM

There is a much easier way, just use s.RH to counter any gief jump (note: dont let gief get you in the corner b/c then it loses) at the correct distance.

You just need to time it so that he is landing on cr.fierce; this way you will trade hits (or win depending on horizontal location). It's easier to use s.Fierce if timed well, also.

Fight Smart, Not Hard.

AJrandom

01-06-2009, 02:40 AM

Thanks for the quick reply. The situation I'm specifically worried about is being trapped in the corner.

s.Fierce is better than cr.fierce in that situation?

Aizen

01-06-2009, 07:38 PM

No, stand fierce as anti-air is matchup specific more than anything. It works best on T.Hawk's dive attempts or Sim's far drills, but even in those cases you'll need to get a feel for when the opponent will attempt those and you need to be a little preemptive about it.

By all means you can experiment and try to AA with st.fierce on a body splashing Gief if you're ever cornered, but I doubt you'll have much success with that (post it up if you do though). If you're trapped in the corner you can try to slide (cr.roundhouse) underneath if he jumps back up for another jump in pressure, but whether you're successful or not depends on timing and the proximity of both characters. Or you might try to two in one a blocked cr.mk into fierce psycho crusher your way out of the corner (e.g. jump back roundhouse, cr.mk xx fierce psycho crusher). Another thing that can work at times is a blocked cr.mk into headstomp and hop over gief and out of the corner.

Obviously there's no one easy solution and all the ways out I've described depend on how gief is pressuring you when you're cornered such as whether he's mainly taking the approach from the ground or air and whether he's already in your grill or not. If he's already in your face and doing tick throw setups on your wakeup, then you are shit out of luck unless you have a super to reversal out. Well, there is a way out even if you don't have a full super meter (I'm still trying to get this down myself). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEtCWmlud7c&feature=channel_page Giga-msx had it up a while back, check it out if you haven't.

AJrandom

01-06-2009, 09:44 PM

Thanks for the info, and that vid is exactly the sort of thing I was looking for. Well, not exactly, but it's damn interesting. I need all the tricks I can learn to beat good Zangiefs.

denki

01-10-2009, 05:05 AM

If Zangief has a perfect timing u can escape from the corner only with a nightmare that's all.
If u dont have the nightmare charged u can only make reversal dkp o dr hoping he mistakes the timing and try to charge the energy for the nightmare.

However Zangief with a so perfect timing are quite rare so u can try with:
1 as was said a slide with the hover kick (but he must have a really quite bad timing)
2 reversal dkp
3 try a back jump (that becomes a straight jump in the corner) with the mp, if u start the jump and go over zangief u can win with the second shoot.
4 s.fierce make a reciprocal hit but it 's ok

Airthrow

01-10-2009, 05:36 AM

Hey Denki, I see you post a lot of great ST info for a while now, are you ever comming to the US for Evo or any other tournament?

Professor Jones

01-10-2009, 06:35 AM

If you feel a jumping splash coming in the corner, just do a fierce psycho crusher to get out. Easy and effective !

denki

01-11-2009, 05:47 AM

Hey Denki, I see you post a lot of great ST info for a while now, are you ever comming to the US for Evo or any other tournament?
Yeah i would like to go, when is the next evo? They make a qualifier in japan?

Greesie

01-14-2009, 04:20 AM

:confused:I'm confused...:confused:
Does Bison have a dizzy combo(s) or not?
And if so, what is it?

Airthrow

01-14-2009, 04:25 AM

Yeah i would like to go, when is the next evo? They make a qualifier in japan?

I'm not sure when the next one is, but I think there is a qualifier in Japan. If not, you can just fly over and enter like normal. :tup: Be sure to PM me if you come so we can hang out!

:confused:I'm confused...:confused:
Does Bison have a dizzy combo(s) or not?
And if so, what is it?

Yeah if you read the thread you'll find he has a couple, like j. rh, st. lkx2, c. mk, scissors.

Greesie

01-14-2009, 08:39 AM

Thanks..
I thought I read it durning the thread but, I wasn't sure if there was different dizzy combos and if so, which one was the best (or used the most)

I have another question too. ..
I just started using Bison and was wondering.. When some whiffs on a dragon punch or flash kick (ect) which combo(s) are best to punish him with?

Thanks to everyone, I do appericate the info..

denki

01-14-2009, 07:00 PM

I'm not sure when the next one is, but I think there is a qualifier in Japan. If not, you can just fly over and enter like normal. Be sure to PM me if you come so we can hang out!
Yeah man i will! Keep in contact!

Thanks..
I thought I read it durning the thread but, I wasn't sure if there was different dizzy combos and if so, which one was the best (or used the most)

I have another question too. ..
I just started using Bison and was wondering.. When some whiffs on a dragon punch or flash kick (ect) which combo(s) are best to punish him with?

Thanks to everyone, I do appericate the info..

dizzy combo more used:

normal jump:
1) j.hk- s.lk - c.mk - double knee hk is dizzy against all but a little bit more difficult against thin character.
2) against balrog, dhalsim and chunli: j.hk-c.mk- psycho crusher hp (is ok against all but is a sure dizzy only against these characters)

from cross up
1) j.hk - s.lk x 2 (when u land on the opposite side) - c.mk - psycho crusher hp
U can also do it with j.mk but is not always a sure dizzy.
- against balrog is difficult (near impossible) so after the s.lk x 2 make a s.hk.
- against ken, ryu and deejay the c.mk is difficult because they have a low vulnerability near the feet so u can land this combo only if is perfect timed, so is more safe to do j.hk- s.lk x 3 - psycho crusher.
- to make the double knee instead of the psycho crusher is difficult because the charge time is very strict however is possible.
- against ken, ryu to make a real cross up with the j.hk is quite difficult so if u are not sure to hit is more safe to attack with a j.mk.

to punish dp/flash kick:
- u can do a c.mk - dkp/pc, a j.mp x 3 or if u see u are not in time a s.hk. If u are too far is ok also a psycho crusher hp.
- pay attenction to the dragon dance of lp shoryuken, the more safe tactic is to hit with a s.hk.

kevgeez

10-28-2009, 06:25 AM

I'm wondering where top level Dics practice combos...
Cause i have no arcade stick on Ps2.
I have an TE stick for pc.

I know you can order HD Remix, and put it on original mode and practice, but where did people like Giga practice before this?

ilikemacaroni707

10-28-2009, 12:54 PM

kevgeez

10-29-2009, 05:35 AM

I'm guessing download ggpo and use savestates

huh?
I'm on GGPO everynight.
Savestates cant be used.
Also, the latest update doesnt let me play myself.

oldschool_BR

10-29-2009, 11:07 AM

There is an executable in the GGPO directory named "ggpofba.exe" or something that is an emulator and should allow save states just like Nabula, MAME, Kawaks or whatever.

kevgeez

11-07-2009, 09:12 PM

1. I've messed with this as well, and I've come up with two "possible" reasons. The headstomp has 30 frames of start up if it takes more than 30 frames for you to counter the fireball it won't hit [unless you use the appropriate distance short, foward, or RH i.e. depending on the distance between you and your opp.]

:wtf:
Since when does what kick you press change anything about the Headstomp properties?

VirtuaFighterFour

11-08-2009, 12:26 AM

:wtf:
Since when does what kick you press change anything about the Headstomp properties?
Players have been alleging this for a long time now. It was brought up again in the HDR Dictator thread but nothing concrete was ever proven. I sat down with my CPSII board one day and tested out all three strength headstomps from various distances against various characters in various states (crouching, waking up, jumping). And just eyeballing it I found nothing definitive that would suggest any difference between the three strengths of headstomp.

It looked as if Dictator traveled the same speed, same trajectory, and recovered from headstomp in the same way no matter which strength headstomp I used.

Here's one of the tests I did. I chose Dictator as the 1P side, Ken as the 2P side, I used my wallet to prop the 2P joystick on my Astro City to walk Ken backwards towards the right of the screen until he was at the corner and kept him there walking back (so he could block the headstomps). Then I walked Dictator as far back as he could go on the 1P side and put him in crouch. I did a headstomp for each strength using the d,u+k command each time from that distance. After I performed the headstomp I stopped touching the joystick and eyeballed where he landed. It looked as if it was the exact same spot that he recovered at each time. The trajectories looked the same as well as the speed.

If there are differences they certainly eluded me. I would love to see something conclusive with hard evidence.

I'm convinced that people think the different strengths of headstomp have different properties because of button layout on the control panels. It takes a split second difference for most people to press short, forward, or roundhouse. Those few frames difference between using your thumb, index, ring finger, or whatever finger to press a different strength button might cause the headstomp to come out earlier or later.

What I mean is, let's say you knock your opponent down, and you want to meaty headstomp them. Because of the that way your hand is positioned, you might strike the short kick button a frame or so earlier, than you would the forward kick button. So let's say you knock your opponent down, and do a headstomp with short kick, and you fly over your opponent as they are getting up (meaning the headstomp whiffs). You might have done it just a bit too early. Now let's say you knock your opponent down again but this time you hit forward kick for a headstomp. Now because of the positioning of your fingers across the control panel that forward strength headstomp might come out a frame or two later...meaning the trajectory will be different. The trajectory will be different because the headstomp auto tracks your opponent. Doing a headstomp at different points during a wakeup animation will get you different trajectories. It seems people might be confusing this with the (unproven?) theory of 'different kick strengths give different headstomps'.

Does this make sense? Again if I'm wrong I would love some closure to this question as it was one of the things in the HDR Dictator thread that no one really had a solid answer to.

shortpitched713

11-08-2009, 12:31 AM

:wtf:
Since when does what kick you press change anything about the Headstomp properties?

It changes the height he flies up before landing. I almost always use lk head stomp because I find it misses least(?).

Interesting stuff there VirtuaFighter. Have you tested whether or not using an up-forward or up-back position for head stomp influences anything like it does for DR. I've been using up-back lk head stomp for a while now and I was convinced that it decreased my chance of missing and just floating over, but my missing less may be due to some other reason.

VirtuaFighterFour

11-08-2009, 12:54 AM

Interesting stuff there VirtuaFighter. Have you tested whether or not using an up-forward or up-back position for head stomp influences anything like it does for DR. I've been using up-back lk head stomp for a while now and I was convinced that it decreased my chance of missing and just floating over, but my missing less may be due to some other reason.
Again, going from down to up, up+back, or up+forward, is three different lenghts for your left hand to travel. You might have the muscle memory timing down perfectly for the down to up+back direction for headstomps, and for the other two directions, your timing might be off (resulting in your missing headstomps).

The only difference I've found with what direction you end the headstomp command in is isn't directly related to the headstomp but related to keeping charge. I'll explain it in detail below. It's actually a neat trick.

Let's say I'm playing Dictator and my opponent is playing Guile. I've just knocked my opponent down, I have a full SUPER meter, and I'm going to headstomp him when he wakes up. I'm on the 1P side and he's on the 2P side waking up.

Using :d:,:u:+:k: will work, it's a headstomp, if timed correctly it will land.

However :d:,:ub:+:k: is a much better alternative. Why?

If you headstomp in this situation and end the motion in up+back and keep holding back as you land you'll land with your backwards charge. The problem though is that if you hold back to preserve charge, after the headstomp, Dictator will travel all the way back opposite from the opponent.

So how do you headstomp your opponent, preserve backwards charge, and land close to your opponent?

The answer is the followup (skull driver or whatever it's called) to headstomp.

If you input :d:,:ub:+:k: for the headstomp, and then continue to hold :l: after the headstomp you'll land far away, yet if right after the headstomp you hit :p: the followup will come out. Followup sinks you like a bag of bricks. You'll land close to your opponent, keep your charge, and now you can threaten a SUPER from close range as opposed to full screen.

:d:,:ub:+:k:, :l: (hold), :p:, land. Now if you land and don't want to immediately SUPER then hold :db: of course. I've seen a few Japanese players use it. I can't remember any videos of it happening off hand but if I see one I'll edit this post in the future.

blitzfu

11-08-2009, 06:34 AM

I definitely agree that Head Stomp trajectory is not affected by button strength or by directional input, but by timing. If somebody were to prove that different trajectories are caused by opponent positioning, I'd agree with that. If an opponent is crouching, Dictator flies low to the ground. If an opponent is airborne, Dictator flies super high. I don't think it has a "homing in" property, though sometimes it seems to "home in" well esp vs aerial opponents. I think that whichever frame the button is input on, the game aims Dictator's feet towards the top most vulnerable area of the opponent during that frame. If that vulnerable hitbox moves on the next frame, and moves significantly enough, that's when I think Dictator whiffs.

I've tried to make Head Stomps whiff when I'm playing vs Dictator by moving forward as soon as I see a Stomp, but this hasn't worked. Maybe it just randomly whiffs every once in a while? Or maybe the opponent has to move at the last second before impact, as opposed to as soon as the Stomp is airborne? IDK, definitely needs to be figured it out.

denki

11-10-2009, 08:40 AM

The only difference I've found with what direction you end the headstomp command in is isn't directly related to the headstomp but related to keeping charge.

I definitely agree that Head Stomp trajectory is not affected by button strength

This is wrong and....

....and here below there is the right answer

It changes the height he flies up before landing. I almost always use lk head stomp because I find it misses least(?).

However this is hard to see if you just watch the screen.
You can check this when you do a head press on a fireball and the opponent try to duck for dodging, if you do the hd lk is more easy to hit him if you do the hp hk is hard and usually you miss the target, on the other way when the opponent jump back and you do a hd lk is more easy that you get hit by a counterattack but if you do the hp hk you can hit him from above.

Maybe it just randomly whiffs every once in a while? Or maybe the opponent has to move at the last second before impact, as opposed to as soon as the Stomp is airborne? IDK, definitely needs to be figured it out.
so the question is how to make the hp whiff: before we should see how the hp system works: when u complete the input pressing the kick botton you start a parabola more or less curved (this depends from the kick botton u used) to the opponent head. After this if you play vs vega and you want to make he whiff you have to change position when vega player finish the input and start the leap, the easiest way is to duck and dodge, this doesn't work if you are in the corner because the hp fly over then stops to the screen corner and fall over your head, that's why for example it's a mistake to do a hp vs dhalsim but it's ok if he is in the corner.

VirtuaFighterFour

11-10-2009, 10:00 AM

I'll test this using an emulator running the Japanese version of ST on Turbo 2 (too lazy to do this on my actual CPSII board), here are the results for the headstomp versus every character standing and crouching.

Ryu:

- Dictator in corner, Ryu as far away as he can be, crouching

short headstomp connects every time
forward headstomp misses and flies over Ryu
roundhouse headstomp misses and flies over Ryu

- Ryu in corner crouching, Dictator as far away as he can be

short headstomp connects every time, hits in front of Ryu
forward headstomp connects every time, hits right on top of Ryu
roundhouse headstomp connects every time, hits right on top of Ryu

- Ryu (crouching) and Dictator as far apart as possible yet far away from the corners (so both midscreen and separated)

short headstomp connects every time, lands very close to Ryu
forward headstomp misses and flies over Ryu
roundhouse headstomp misses and flies over Ryu

- Ryu (crouching) separated from Dictator by one panel on Ryu's stage

short headstomp connects every time, hits right in front of Ryu's face
forward headstomp misses and flies barely over Ryu landing next to him
roundhouse headstomp misses and flies barely over Ryu landing next to him

- Ryu (crouching) with Dictator point blank next to him

short headstomp connects every time, hits right on top of Ryu
forward headstomp connects every time, hits right on top of Ryu
roundhouse headstomp connects every time, hits right on top of Ryu

- Ryu (standing) anywhere, Dictator at any distance

short headstomp connects every time
forward headstomp connects every time
roundhouse headstomp connects every time

So with Ryu, you can avoid (or duck under) the forward and roundhouse strength headstomps from a few distances, the short strength headstomp will consistently connect though. Realistically it is impossible in the middle of a match to know which strength headstmop that your opponent is using. So if your opponent knows to use the short strength headstomp and you try to duck under it you'll end up losing that exchange. However opponents who like to piano or vary their headstomps could expose themselves to a whiffed moved if their opponent tries to duck the headstomp. Standing however, as the opponent, and you will not be able to avoid a headstomp at any distance. If you replace Ryu with Ken the results are the same as well. So Ryu and Ken have a special advantage compared to the rest of the cast who I individually tested below.
- - - -

Zangief:

- Dictator in corner, Zangief as far away as he can be, crouching

short headstomp connects every time
forward headstomp connects every time
roundhouse headstomp connects every time

- Zangief in corner crouching, Dictator as far away as he can be

short headstomp connects every time
forward headstomp connects every time
roundhouse headstomp connects every time

- Zangief (crouching) and Dictator as far apart as possible yet far away from the corners (so both midscreen and separated)

short headstomp connects every time
forward headstomp connects every time
roundhouse headstomp connects every time

- Zangief (crouching) separated from Dictator by one panel on Ryu's stage

short headstomp connects every time
forward headstomp connects every time
roundhouse headstomp connects every time

- Zangief (crouching) with Dictator point blank next to him

short headstomp connects every time
forward headstomp connects every time
roundhouse headstomp connects every time

- Zangief (standing) anywhere, Dictator at any distance

short headstomp connects every time
forward headstomp connects every time
roundhouse headstomp connects every time

So against Zangief the headstomps, no matter what strength, no matter what distance, nor if Zangief is standing or crouching, will always connect. While the trajectories might be different, though difficult to see, they are insignificant in this match in that they all eventually connect no matter what. You can substitute Boxer, Dhalsim, Claw, T.Hawk, Fei Long, Blanka, Honda, Cammy, DeeJay, Sagat, Chun, Guile and even Dictator himself in for Zangief for all these tests as well. Every character but Ryu and Ken must block headstomps.
- - -
Obviously if you knock your opponent down and perform the headstomp command too early, you'll land before your opponent even gets up, meaning a whiff is possible on a waking opponent no matter who they are. Standing opponents as well as seem to equally track a headstomp regardless of what strength command was used to perform the special attack. However, Ryu and Ken (lucky bastards!) seem to have the unique ability to evade certain strength headstomps (forward and roundhouse) at certain distances by simply crouching in place.

Now it is possible to perform a headstomp while an opponent is standing, then have that opponent duck, and then the headstomp flies over and whiffs. So for example, I have two Dictator players, both as far apart as they can be midscreen, one is standing, one is crouching. The crouching Dictator performs a headstomp, the standing Dictator keeps standing, and gets hit. I reset the save state, and have the one Dictator perform a headstomp again, I have the other crouch immediately while the headstomp is taking off from the ground, the opposing Dictator holds crouch, the headstomp (no matter the strength) flies right over the crouched Dictator. Now, if I perform a headstomp, then the opposing Dictator rapidly goes from crouching to standing several times in a row (by mashing the joystick between down and neutral), the headstomp flies right over the opposing Dictator if he is crouching but if you stand back up you'll get caught in the headstomps trajectory and take the hit.

I had Dictator headstomp point blank next to standing Zangief, and no matter when Zangief crouched after the headstomp was performed, he ate the headstomp every time. Yet if I tried to headstomp a standing Zangief midscreen when he was standing, and then he crouched, the headstomps would whiff if Zangief crouched fast enough. If Zangief was crouching midscreen, I perform a headstomp, then Zangief stood up and crouched again, the headstomp would connect no matter what.

So standing opponents, as long as they are not in the corner, can duck under headstomps if they quickly crouch. The headstomp will track them as if they are standing, so if they remain crouched, Dictator will fly right over them.

The biggest difference is that while all characters that are standing can try to duck under any strength headstomp, Ryu and Ken can crouch for the entire duration of forward and roundhouse strength headstomps (from certain distances) and avoid them altogether.

I don't know how much further testing this needs. The headstomps are different though (though only noticeable on Ryu and Ken really). And tricky opponents can try to duck under headstomps (I'll see if I can find some videos where this happens).