Samurai Shodown 5 Secret Boss Edition (Sound)

[Kyokuji]

Is there a way to fix the sound issues in the ROM?
Can't even use Kusaregedo because the game freaks out with static whenever I try to do his puke move.

[NEBULOSO]

Is there a way to fix the sound issues in the ROM?
Can't even use Kusaregedo because the game freaks out with static whenever I try to do his puke move.

Myself, NoG and a few other Shodown players normally post here on Heavenly Spirits, where p100q, GoD 2.0 or Vansibel can answer your sound question - edited for rom listings (fb)

Also, Kyokuji, do or have you ever played on the Daroms server?

[Kyokuji]

I have, but my ping there is exactly the same as it is in GodWeapon so I see no reason to be there.
That doesn't help me though. What did you all do about it? Do you just play with the static?

And I don't know why you always ask to play me in LB2, and then when I have a game open in the server, you don't join.

[Chozen1]

a LONG time ago when this first was released , there was a patch that was posted elsewhere which cleaned up the sound nicely however, now you can find it included. just a thought

[NEBULOSO]

Check your PM's Kyokuji? - Whenever I do see you on the servers, I'm looking for Ren Hoek, as I saw him playing DoDonPachi (and he plays a few other shooters as well), and I was wondering how he got his to work?

And, looking at your LB2 guides, you seem like the type of player who likes Combos? So I thought you'd be playing SSIV more (over SSVSP), as the combos in it, are insane! (mostly when powered up) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6znSX35gm9k :looney:

[Terry_nb]

Ah Kyokuji finally relising how good SS is.^^

For the sound issues, just check the members louge of ss.com for a fine working version or ask someone there like NEBULOSO said already.

[Kyokuji]

Actually, I prefer more footsies/poke based games like 3rd Strike.
It just happens that a lot of the games I'm good at are very combo heavy, which has more to do with the selection on MAME than anything.

I like to play all different kinds of fighters anyway. I play A3 for example, but mainly only because I enjoy doing VC's.
I'm probably not going to get 'that' into this, since Samurai Shodown has always been a little too "can't make one mistake or half your life is gone" for me, but it seems fun enough.
SSIV was broke as hell from what I heard anyway.

[cygnus]

I'm probably not going to get 'that' into this, since Samurai Shodown has always been a little too "can't make one mistake or half your life is gone" for me, but it seems fun enough.
SSIV was broke as hell from what I heard anyway.
SS4 is broke in a good way. The only thing bad about it are infinites (which are banned in competitive play). It is also faster and there is more room for creative offense than ss5sp where you have to turtle since single random hits can cost you a lot. There is also a more proper risk/reward on throws. It's also more fun.

[Kyokuji]

It's also more fun.
Sounds more like an opinion to me, lol.

[arstal]

Those throws at playlevels above mine aren't as useful- they do make the game more aggressive though- as throws can soften someone up for the big hit.

SS doesn't really have footsies, it's more of a trapping/fakeout game. That said, it does take effort to get in with the characters that need to get in like Gaira.

[cygnus]

Yeah SS5sp is more of a baiting and mixup game, but there are some good 6/3D's that stop a lot of stuff. SS4 as some footsie stuff though because of the normals exe/recovery in it. Galford's A/low A, Genjuro's A/low B, TamTam's A, Kyoshiro's B/low B, etc. force the opponent out of the space in front if you for zoning.

[Terry_nb]

SS4 is broke in a good way. The only thing bad about it are infinites (which are banned in competitive play). It is also faster and there is more room for creative offense than ss5sp where you have to turtle since single random hits can cost you a lot. There is also a more proper risk/reward on throws. It's also more fun.

Lol, you must be as creative in VSP then IV. Even moreso, because of IV's combo madness and I don't mean a simple 14 hitter ... In IV it is a lot about combo execution and it doesn't feel that right to me anyway.

Both games are pretty deep and poking plays a huge roll in SSVSP Kyokuji and don't hear what the other guy said. SSVSP isn't a turtle fest, exspecially once you come around the medicore level. But well also depends on the char, match up etc., but I guess you know that ...

[cygnus]

Lol, you must be as creative in VSP then IV. Even moreso, because of IV's combo madness and I don't mean a simple 14 hitter ... In IV it is a lot about combo execution and it doesn't feel that right to me anyway.
IDK most of the combos in 4 are easy, you just have to learn them. They also add an addition elemt to positional advantage (corner only/backturned only/combination combos). Also I don't think C+D counts as a 'random hit'. It has limited range and you can only combo on a grounded opponent. What I mean by creative offense is that you can jump and dash around quickly with less risk than in 5sp.

Big combo in 4 (requires opponent to be grounded/come from an opening) = 30~50% (well it really varies).
Random jumping/standing hardslash in 4 (can connect in any way, ground or air) = 15~20%

Combo in 5sp = 15~20%
Random jumping/standing hardslash in 5sp = 30~40%

Do you follow? I'm saying single hits that can land in any situation do a lot more damage than they do in 4, thus requiring the players to lay off fast movement a bit and be defensive.

[Terry_nb]

I never said they were difficould, through some CD and AB cancel combos aren't easy, at least for me.^^

I like that huge 1 or two slash damage. Exspecially since it feels more real and you don't have many chances to get such an hit in anyway. Watch high level play or medicore ones and you'll see for yourself. AB slashes were toned down in speed and recovery in SSV and VSP from IV onwards, plus you need a full or nearly full kenki gauge to take it to huge dimensions. Don't make it sounds so easy to lend it. Oh and some BnB combos have not only faster start moves in speed then AB slashes they also lead to knockdown and can take with pursiut also huge damage plus mix up opportunity afterwards. Then take into consideration that the parry command was beafed up and you actually got a lot of evades thx to the D button ... All this means hard slashes are really rare in the dimensions you describe the game. I hope you can follow me up to this point ...

Oh and creative offense because there were more safer ways to get a rushdown going? I don't think it is super creative at all, you must think more if you are kinda limited in your safe stuff. I also think thx to more evading options and a better poking part SSVSP is a lot more intense. Ah I can't describe it for real, but maybe you get a hint what I mean.

[cygnus]

AB slashes were toned down in speed and recovery in SSV and VSP from IV onwards
Depends, Haoh's hard slash got way faster. ^^ Most jumping AB's are the same (in fact I think they are all the same, Haoh's is slower though).

Oh and some BnB combos have not only faster start moves in speed then AB slashes they also lead to knockdown and can take with pursiut also huge damage plus mix up opportunity afterwards.
BnB combos require you to be close and grounded, I'm not talking about close CH/punish situations.

Then take into consideration that the parry command was beafed up and you actually got a lot of evades thx to the D button ... All this means hard slashes are really rare in the dimensions you describe the game.
I'm mostly talking about jumping AB's which only 1D and 3D can dodge, and they don't allow you to punish them anyway (not that they should be punishable). It basically comes down to being less of a positional/tactical game and more of a an RPS game. For example, if i expect you to run at me, I can jump straight up to beat your run mixup and lock down the space in front of me. If you predict you can just jump hardslash me, but that's a risky move on your part. Now here's the part I don't like. In 4 if you ran in and threw, you'd whiff your hard slash and get owned; in 5sp you will get that gay hop and be completely safe. To punish a throw in 5sp you must use the dodges, which is fine, I think the new dodges are neat. But now if I'm to use the dodge you can running AB me or running slide me depending on which dodge I use, so it turns into RPS if I want to actually do damage. I think it's a cool system and it works really well on paper, but it takes away the powerful zoning/momentum game of ss4, which I like a lot. So now in ss5sp, what does jumping stright up really beat? Not much, and the risk is MORE than it is in ss4 (because of more damage on single hits). Same goes for backdash being owned by stuff like Haoh's fast ass AB. I just feel like in ss4 your movement and space control could really wreck shit, and in 5sp just makes you a stupid target.

Oh and creative offense because there were more safer ways to get a rushdown going? I don't think it is super creative at all, you must think more if you are kinda limited in your safe stuff.
That makes zero sense. Less options = more creativity? More like less safe options = more sitting around. It does make you think more...about all kinds of things you shouldn't try to do.

I also think thx to more evading options and a better poking part SSVSP is a lot more intense.
Well, most ground pokes are slower, but like I said the damage on idividual hits is increased, so there is more significance on single guesses. Hence the game being more waiting around/baiting/turtling. I have nothing against the concept, but it just doesn't work for me in ss5sp. The game basically feels like it has no flair to it other than some characters like shizu, suija, ukyo. Whereas in ss4 I feel that most characters have dope stuff.

Anyway it's just my preference, different strokes.

[Dark Geese]

Wow now what is this?? A secret version of Sam Sho V that actually does what the manual for the XBOX version promised in the beginning and that is give us Gaoh, Mizuki, and Amakusa as playable????

And it aint SSVSP of course its just SSV with Bosses right???

[Kyokuji]

No, it's SSVSP.
They just couldn't rip the sound properly at first so they just copied the old SSV sound files into it which caused some problems.

[cygnus]

Yeah it's a hack using the samsho5 romset, since no one actually plays ss5 over ss5sp.

[Terry_nb]

Trust me, the recovery on nearly every hardslash got bigger, in IV you couldn't counter them that easiely.

The hop isn't safe at all ...

Throwing can be stopped with most c.A or s.A's plus special moves, dodges etc. ... Also throws do way less damage then guardbreaks in IV could lead to, so it is good that you can lend them more often if you are carefully using them. It gets more tactical then you think, way more then IV could offer. You need to work more for your throw damage and most mix ups didn't do much too, because the huge damage slashes etc. are nearly always to slow to be really usefull. Alone the fact that I have the fear of losing half of my life with a failure even against beginners makes the thinking part pretty big.

I also don't see your point in the straight up jumps. Some chars still play around a lot with them and I think you never played a good Genjuro, Galford or Hanzo in VSP. It strongly depends on the char now what one can do with the straight up j.AB.

For backdashing it is the same, it really depends on the char how usefull it is (in terms of speed and range) and using it mindlessly is anyway stupid, no offense here to you.

That makes zero sense. Less options = more creativity? More like less safe options = more sitting around. It does make you think more...about all kinds of things you shouldn't try to do.

To work with less safe options makes sense in terms of creativity here, ever played SFII? Like I said before, overcomeing an opponent in these games needs more thinking, because you are really kinda limited at times. It also gives you some nice surprise tactics now and then. For you creativity comes with a huge amount of options, but I don't think this definition is right at all.

However, it's no use to argue about this. It's all about taste and what feeling you want to have and I definetly can say SSIV doesn't feel like SS. It i ok as a 2D game to be played once in a while for the combo fun, but definetly not on the same level as SSVSP, SSV, SSII, SSI or SSTenka. I think SSIII and SSIV are the worst in the series for different reasons. But it doesn't make them bad quality games, just not as enjoyable as the others IMHO.

[cygnus]

The hop isn't safe at all ...
It is when you're 50 feet in the air behind them.


Throwing can be stopped with most c.A or s.A's plus special moves, dodges etc.
Yeah I know, I'm not talking about that.


I also don't see your point in the straight up jumps. Some chars still play around a lot with them and I think you never played a good Genjuro, Galford or Hanzo in VSP. It strongly depends on the char now what one can do with the straight up j.AB.
I thought I made it quite clear about jump up's role in ss5sp and the risk/reward in relation to ss4.


To work with less safe options makes sense in terms of creativity here, ever played SFII?
There are shit fuck ton of safe moves in sf2, and are only unsafe if your opponent takes a risk and goes out of the way to do something other than sit in their ass, just like ss4.

However, it's no use to argue about this. It's all about taste and what feeling you want to have and I definetly can say SSIV doesn't feel like SS. It i ok as a 2D game to be played once in a while for the combo fun, but definetly not on the same level as SSVSP, SSV, SSII, SSI or SSTenka. I think SSIII and SSIV are the worst in the series for different reasons. But it doesn't make them bad quality games, just not as enjoyable as the others IMHO.
Well it's pretty clear we will never agree since I have the complete opposite opinion!

[MonopolyMan]

SS5 is clearly superior, because it has Mina, and she is hot. The same principle applies to SS6, due to Iroha.

[NEBULOSO]

SS5 is clearly superior, because it has Mina, and she is hot. The same principle applies to SS6, due to Iroha.


So because of a certain character being in a game, that makes the game better? :looney: :tdown:

Everyone has different preferences, so it's pointless to say which SS game is the Best or better then the others. The one thing you can say about the SS series is that from SS1-IV, every game was different from one another....

However, it's no use to argue about this. It's all about taste and what feeling you want to have and I definetly can say SSIV doesn't feel like SS.

That's how I feel about SS6, as it just doesn't feel like a Shodown! But "To each their own!"

[cygnus]

SS5 is clearly superior, because it has Mina, and she is hot. The same principle applies to SS6, due to Iroha.
i...i..iro..ha-chan ~________~

[Terry_nb]

Well it's pretty clear we will never agree since I have the complete opposite opinion!

Seems to be so, but I don't think it is a bad thing. I actually enjoyed our little talk here.:smile:

[woof]

SS5 is clearly superior, because it has Mina, and she is hot.
no


The same principle applies to SS6, due to Iroha.
yes

*A*

[arstal]

Actually, throws in special can't always be broken by A-slashes. In High Level play, throwing can become about as common as it is in ST.

One counter that can work against a grab is ducking, but ducking has its risks as well (one character I use a lot can punish a duck with a DM)

The thing is with special, you're trying to get into your characters "happy zone" in most battles, which, very similarly to ST- changes from battle to battle. Even Amakusa, who is one of the more range-oriented chars in the game, wants to fight in your face vs some people. In 4, you could escape crap just as easily as you could in 5, the thing with 4 was you had to deal with some goofy risk-reward. Special is somewhat too nerfed, but a lot better balanced, and some chars aren't nerfed.

Positional play definitely does matter some in 5, for some characters- it just isn't the classics SF2 footsie game due to the ranges involved. For example, Gaira needs to get in.

Another flaw with special is the fact people play it 2/3 not 3/5 rds. It's a little too easy to steal a round by blowing your meter- which sometimes makes the last rounds anticlimactic. Raging your meter away can stop the clock- which can stop some turtle tactics- or extend the round to finish the guy off.

Special has a lot of hidden depth to it, and not a lot of cheese, unlike IV- which has some more obvious depth, but a lot of stupid crap in the game, or III, which was just flat out broke. I was good, II was good but somewhat buggy.

No idea on VI.

[cygnus]

Actually, throws in special can't always be broken by A-slashes.
Very true, but in ss4 they are fast enough to stop walk-in throws.


The thing is with special, you're trying to get into your characters "happy zone" in most battles, which, very similarly to ST- changes from battle to battle. Even Amakusa, who is one of the more range-oriented chars in the game, wants to fight in your face vs some people. In 4, you could escape crap just as easily as you could in 5, the thing with 4 was you had to deal with some goofy risk-reward. Special is somewhat too nerfed, but a lot better balanced, and some chars aren't nerfed.
That's exactly how it works in ss4, except even moreso since the character ability is more powerful on the whole. You couldn't escape crap just as easily in ss4, which was my whole point. Small pokes, projectiles, and AAs were better, lack of a really good dodge option at range, and thus zoning and controlling space was much more difficult to beat in 4. Honestly, I think 4 on a proportional scale, is just as balanced as 5sp. Pretty ludicrous statement, I know! 5sp has it's powerful characters, but whereas in 4 where characters were good at the specific gimmicks they had, in 5sp the characters the come on top are just ones with slightly better fundmentals or safe offensive options. It's like having a game where everyone can do the same basic shit, but one character can do 1 point of damage more than the rest. Yeah it's balanced, but at the cost of excitement and variety. But a lot of people just seem to love the game because it's 'balanced' and that's good enough for them. Everyone had their balls chopped off so now everyone is equal!

Positional play definitely does matter some in 5, for some characters- it just isn't the classics SF2 footsie game due to the ranges involved. For example, Gaira needs to get in.
Wasn't really talking about positional play as much as the movement itself, but Gaira is a great example of tactical play between 4 and 5sp. In 4 Gaira can have a really hard time getting in, but when he gets in you better start fucking praying! It's like having Gief in your face in sf2, once he gets in, you have a very high chance of losing the match. 5sp...not so much. He has an easier time getting in since zoning is less powerful, but he doesn't make you scared when he gets close like he did in 4.

Another flaw with special is the fact people play it 2/3 not 3/5 rds. It's a little too easy to steal a round by blowing your meter- which sometimes makes the last rounds anticlimactic. Raging your meter away can stop the clock- which can stop some turtle tactics- or extend the round to finish the guy off.
I agree with this, at least a little. But then again it would mess with enlightenment/rage/meter stuff, which is something I really do like in 5sp. It might be interesting to try.

Special has a lot of hidden depth to it, and not a lot of cheese, unlike IV- which has some more obvious depth, but a lot of stupid crap in the game, or III, which was just flat out broke. I was good, II was good but somewhat buggy.
What you call cheese, I call a game. Remember, some people also think sf2 is just 'spamming fireball cheese' and 'throw cheese'.

And ss1 was fucking terrible! You can't throw earthquake and there are no overheads! Many chairs were thrown in Korean arcades onver that one from what I hear!

I also think 2 is stupid and one hell of an overrated game, I'm sure that'll get me points with the "old school" ss2 fanboys. A game that was good for it's time, that has not withstood the test of time.

Samsho 3...well that game is funny at least.

[NEBULOSO]

And ss1 was fucking terrible! You can't throw earthquake and there are no overheads! Many chairs were thrown in Korean arcades onver that one from what I hear!

Throwing chairs? That's too funny! :rofl: Yet very stupid, as a good player would just find some other way around this, problem!

SS1 wasn't that bad! Like SF2, the technique and strategy all depended on the individual player.... Not to mention me and my friend had some really annoying set-ups with Wan Fu! :looney:

About the overheads? Well the game was released in '93, so I wouldn't have expected it to have had them, not even SF2 had them (I think it wasn't until ST that Capcom put something like them in SF2's gameplay/mechanics?). And, I think companies were just trying to make a fighting game play as solid and at the same time stand out from SF2, and SNK did just that with Samurai Shodown....

[arstal]

That's exactly how it works in ss4, except even moreso since the character ability is more powerful on the whole.

Depends on the character- most chars seem more powerful in special to me, except for the broken ones in 4. Gaira is much more powerful in special then either version is in 4. Basara as well.



You couldn't escape crap just as easily in ss4, which was my whole point. Small pokes, projectiles, and AAs were better, lack of a really good dodge option at range, and thus zoning and controlling space was much more difficult to beat in 4.

At range, you don't need a dodge option much. Small pokes are just as useful if not more so in special.

Honestly, I think 4 on a proportional scale, is just as balanced as 5sp. Pretty ludicrous statement, I know!

Yep. It is ludicrous.

5sp has it's powerful characters, but whereas in 4 where characters were good at the specific gimmicks they had, in 5sp the characters the come on top are just ones with slightly better fundmentals or safe offensive options.
T
Many of those chars have other chars who make those safe options very risky. Think Kazuki/Amakusa, or Jubei/Sogetsu.

It's like having a game where everyone can do the same basic shit, but one character can do 1 point of damage more than the rest. Yeah it's balanced, but at the cost of excitement and variety.

I find more variety in special, where there isn't a game-dominating gimmick.

But a lot of people just seem to love the game because it's 'balanced' and that's good enough for them. Everyone had their balls chopped off so now everyone is equal!


Wasn't really talking about positional play as much as the movement itself, but Gaira is a great example of tactical play between 4 and 5sp. In 4 Gaira can have a really hard time getting in, but when he gets in you better start fucking praying! It's like having Gief in your face in sf2, once he gets in, you have a very high chance of losing the match. 5sp...not so much. He has an easier time getting in since zoning is less powerful, but he doesn't make you scared when he gets close like he did in 4.

How many good Gairas have you faced? Special Gaira is just as scary in close, moreso since if you're used to Slash Gaira- he has the command grab which does close to half damage (over half if raged), and Special Gaira has slash's air d.

On top of that, the shorter lifebars in special help grapplers out, as in 4 he does one lifebar of damage, you've got one left to whittle him down. In special he gets in and lands a grab, it's likely over.



What you call cheese, I call a game. Remember, some people also think sf2 is just 'spamming fireball cheese' and 'throw cheese'.

That argument is made by MK fans, KI fans, Marvel fans, and a bunch of other crap fighters. It's irrelevant


And ss1 was fucking terrible! You can't throw earthquake and there are no overheads! Many chairs were thrown in Korean arcades onver that one from what I hear!

And we're comparing 4 to special, neither to 1. 1 was excellent for its time though.

I also think 2 is stupid and one hell of an overrated game, I'm sure that'll get me points with the "old school" ss2 fanboys. A game that was good for it's time, that has not withstood the test of time.

I'll give you that one at least. 2 is overrated. Not bad, but no better then the other SNK fighters of that time period, and inferior to ST. I actually consider 1 better in some ways.

[Chozen1]

samsho2 shall always remain the best regardless. although special is good as well; if only samsho5sp had the same mechanics as samsho2 it would have been the Best in all of snk games (well besides last series that is)