Ironman in depth [Archive]

tech master

11-06-2006, 04:59 PM

First off, obviously I didn't come up with all this info so I'm taking no credit. I did write it, but all the information is based off me learning from videos and other people. There are a few infinites I will list that really havn't been spoken about at all in the threads besides by me, but I'm sure they're already known. When you search all the Ironman threads you can find everything you need to know but it seems you have to go through several threads, hence why I'm making this. Hopefully it will prevent more useless ass threads from being created.

Normals (note, if i didnt review it then dont use it)

s.LP - Typical lp, maybe just a little short in terms of reach. Never use to start a combo off. Its main purpose is to continue a chain of hits or catch a falling opponent to cancel in to proton cannon. Ex: psy AAA, s.lp c.mp xx Proton Cannon

s.LK- nice speed, not too much distance. great for juggles/OTG's. You can start a combo with it safely but its always just smart to begin with a c.LK because you start crouched and most people continue the chain with a crouched mp

c.LK - decent distance, most commonly used for the beginning of a ground rush/combo other than s.HK.

s.MP - Try not to use, c.MP does just about everything the same but better. the only time i use this is if i'm using psylocke and i simply do c.lk + AAA, s.mp, infinite. Its only good attribute is it has decent distance

c.MP - one of ironmans necessities. Ironman throws a savage punch that lifts the opponents feet off the ground. Why so necessary? it leads to ANYTHING - Launch, sj cancel, fly, proton cannon. Another mentionable attribute is that it leaves the opponent in stun for a LONG period of time which really opens up the combo game with ease.

c.mk - good distance, trips the opponent which opens up for an otg. Don't base your offense on this, any decent player will roll everytime. No point in using it now that I think of it, you can do a sure combo to infinite as another option to this.

s.HP - Many people use this for corner situations to link to the PC. Its easy, but it would be smarter to perfect the s.LP, c.MP xx PRoton Cannon as it can prevent the dizzyness problem people have when they miss there PC. Other than that, it has good reach and priority and can be used as an anti-air. Just beware, long recovery time. So if its not a sure hit, make sure you called an assist to protect you OR cancel in to fly mode.

c.HP - Ironman shoots out a missile from his shoulder. Pretty slow and i find that it comes out during messed up dash cancels. ONLY time i use this attack is when the opponent missed a super/come in and i'm on the opposite side of the screen. Ex: c.Hp+Drones, Unibeam, rush in.

s.HK - One of Ironman's best moves. The simple physics of how he is positioned when he performs the launcher give it all its benefits. He lifts both feet off the ground positioning one straight up fully extended. This causes a lot of crouching attacks to miss. It has great vertical reach which serves as a great anti-air and its insanely fast for a hard attack. Only problem is the recovery period which is quite long to balance it out.

c.HK - Never really used besides one pretty combo in the corner. Don't use otherwise

Airborne Normals

LP - Typical
LK - pops opponents up a little higher than LP, HITS CROUCHING OPPONENTS
MP - Typical
Mk - Typical

HP - Ironmans key to all his success. Great reach and priority. It leaves the opponent in stun for quite some time. Three variations possible by holding either up, nuetral, or down and a light sabre esque attack moves in that direction. Holding up prevents the Flyscreen animation. Anytime you land an airborne u+Hp its open for a combo, the opponent should almost be dead (if not dead) by the end of the chain if you're playing right.

HK - Kick that somewhat resembles his launcher, yet in the air. Holding up will make him kick up and nuetral points down. Can be used to initiate his jumping infinite, and also opens up mixup game a little which I will go in to later

D+HK - Ironman gets in to a kneeling position and uses his foot rockets to project him down to the ground/opponent. I use this to get to the ground anytime I'm flying and don't have the unfly action. important to know, a sentinel with NO anti air can be trapped in the corner by d+Hk xx fly, D+hk xx fly D+HK. friggin GREAT with doom

Special Moves

Unibeam - Doesn't do too much damage but not a bad move. Good for chip damage and has great recovery for a projectile. I find myself cancelling a blocked s.hk into the lp unibeam which should be good enough to keep s.hk's safe to perform. If you're not intermediate with unfly action, then this move is usually used to end an aircombo. If you're in fly mode and in the corner and decide to end the combo with this, it opens up a grab opportunity right after.

Repulsar Blast - Good anti-air but shitty recovery. Don't use unless protected with an assist, and even then i'd say there are better choices of moves to use. You can cancel out to proton cannon but the c.mp method is superior. Its really only useful if you perform the move before 10 hits because it does good damage but we all know a 10hit ironman combo is something to laugh at.

Smart Bombs - Controllable by holding foward or back. Do not use on the ground, ever. Mainly used in the air to control space and open up for rush down and thats about it.

Throws

HP throw - in the corner you can try doing a s.lp to grab. Good throw considering you can reset/ combo off it.

Hk Throw - some people use this, but I never do.

Super Move

Proton Cannon - His only super and its slow as shit. I mean what do you expect when Ironman pulls a gun twice his size out of thin air. It does average damage for a super but its value is in the amount of hits and DHC properties. Therefore doing most damage at the end of a high hit chain. Best DHC in the game, seriously. its God like. DHC's faster than hailstorms and you easily add 30-40 more points after any combo. When i say its instant, i mean its instant. ANYTIME you catch someone fucking up and you do an insant super (ie. mags) and dhc to ironman, the opponent's animation will not have moved at all. Just please, I beg everyone. DO NOT DO RANDOM SUPERS, EVER. Feel free to call an assist and kill off an opponent with chip damage, but never EVER just do a random super.

Interesting about PC: Its highly unlikely, but if the opponent is located in the corner you can actually OTG when the opponent lands. However, IM is always considerably far. The only use I've been able to put to this is a c.lk + psy AAA, s.mk, j.infinite

Special Note: If you can perfect going STRAIGHT to a proton cannon after a rep of an infinite, then thats the best way. However, its personally hard for me but it might not be for you.

Conneting PC directly from the infinite: If you would like to go straight from a j.hp to the proton cannon you want the opponent higher in the air, which you do by doing the rep as slow as possible and doing the last HP as low to the ground as possible.

Strategy

Infinite is a must: Everything should lead to an infinite. End of story. You build meter, you can kill in one combo, it brings the opponent to the corner and ultimately sets you up for one of many guard breaks.

Unfly: Unfly combos that stay in the air do good damage the first 10 hits, but its really retarded after that. If an assist isn't an option, then learning Ironman and his abilities with the unfly action is necessary. Bring them down, jumping infinite is your friend! Its the easiest infinite, most effective, and easiest to link to a super. It also superceeds particular holes such as a two hit jump in move where you could easily just cancel a c.mp into fly f.lk, unfly, U+hp, j.infinite

Beginning of the Match: This is sooooooo key to winning a match, or at least just makes it a hell of a lot easier. Ironman is equipped with a couple fast ass moves that can easily give you first hit in a match. With the tons of resets or even simple infinites, the first move really counts. There are really only two moves you should be attempting at the beginning of the match. Either a s.hk or a j.lk. Both moves hit almost instant and usually win, or trade hits at worse. If you think the opponent is going to jump at the beginning, you can start straight off with the infinite using the j.lk. If you want to play it safe and predict it being blocked, call an assist at the same time.

Controlling Space: In my opinion the biggest misconception about ironman is the idea that he controls space. Don't ever zone an entire match unless forced to. Its too hard to kepe somebody pinned down with the way Ironmans moves are designed. sure you can throw out some smart bombs (his only real way to control space) but you're just asking to get shot or for someone to dash on the other side of you. So basically, sure try and zone at times but don't base your offense on it.

Ground Rush Game: Iron man isn't too fast so his ground rush game isn't his best feature but I'll still continue with tips. IMO, on the ground he needs an assist. Most likely any decent opponent is going to block EVERY attack from a solo Ironman rush. So a good assist like Drones, Rocks, etc would be a good choice. Try and initiate the rush with an assist and mix it up with superjumps or fly/unfly actions. I know it sounds weird, but use an anti-air also. Just like mags or storm, call AAA sj xx adf. Rocks/drones etc take time and can be seen coming. They usually need to be linked to balance out they're speed. Picking an anti-air can be useful as they usually come out instantly.

Resets: Ironman has a BUNCH of resets, with options almost nearing those of the god tiers. I know everyone likes to get saucy, however, if you are really in need of a win its important to realize you only need to perform one per character, if that. As always with resets, don't stick with the same ones. Either do variations of the same ones, or complete different ones.

Baiting and Counters: Ironman relies on two things- assists, and counters. Which means you need the opponent to attack. If somebody is turtling or running away, try and bait with smart bombs/c.hp's+assist to unibeams. As soon as he jumps, try and get him with a sj. move (best bet) or try and launch them with a s.hk or do a cross up to infinite.

Opponent in Air: Sentinel is such a threat in the air, but thats okay. Ironman WANTS the opponent to be in the air. Don't underestimate that U+HP, it has great priority and can easily be linked from lp's and lk's. From there you definitely want to get in to the unfly combos that i list later. I guess its sufficient to do the standard unfly combo if you're a newb, but learn to bring them down by forms of assist or gettin saucy with the unfly normals chain. You want them down where you can perform the jumping infinite and/or PC.

Unfly Combos and Assists: if you can't perfect bringing the opponent down from an unfly combo, then learn your assists. Its much easier to do a fly + assist setup than actually bringing them down yourself. Doom is great for this as you can see in the vids i posted.

SJ Cancelling/Jap Setups: When tri/jumping in it is much more convenient for ironman to start with a lk, HP, as if you cross up the lk is more likely to hit than a HP. Being that its a two hit setup before you hit the ground, SJ. Cancelling makes things much easier. Land and you can sj.cancel to infinite, or fly combos. You can also simply go for the all Fierce infinite which you can find in the combo Section

Ironman as an assist: Anti-air assist is the only one you will ever need. It takes up half the screen and gives your point character a lot of room to breathe. It opens up for a juggle/otg and the more hits the assist does ends up in wayyy more damage then you'd think. Two or three hits can leave the opponent in the air for a good two seconds which should be more than you'd ever need. IMO the people that take most advantage of this are the God tiers, which is partially why Ironman is placed close to them on the tier list.

If your opponent is going to be alive after a combo: This is the only time I really approve of a reset other than the beginning of a jap setup. If you know the proton cannon wont kill them off then you have two choices. Perform the one and only reset you need, OR DHC to sentinel (seeing that he is the most popular person used with IM).

DHC'ing to Proton Cannon: As previously stated, DHC to PC is great. Catch people slipping, or finish an opponent off that wasn't going to be dead after the first super. If you have a little mixup thats good for one or two hits, then immediately super DHC to PC.

DHC'ing FROM the proton Cannon: The god tiers, besides mags, have really good supers DHC to, sentinels being the best obviously. If the opponent is in the corner, you can use mags MT, or storms hailstorm and juggle after.

Assists Ironman likes: (no particular order)
drones-IM is slow, and these keep the opponent blocking long enough for him to catch up. Good for cross ups.
RP - Rp, infinite does good damage
Rocks - Good chip damage and really opens up IM's reset/mixup game
Cyke AAA - Great for Unfly combos and even j. inifnite
psy AAA - Easiest way to setup j.infinite, great resets
Cable anti air - can go to j.infinite after first hit of AAA
Mags Proj - Launch + assist, hp, infinite. Also helps bait
Storm Proj - Same as Drones

Teams

these are just my opinion, no particular order
IM, Cable, Doom
Mag, IM, Sent (combofiend)
storm, IM, sent (RapeSquad)
Mag, IM, PSY (MIP)
IM, Sent, Cyke
IM, Sent, Doom

Opponent Come in:
-Midscreen: Ironman has a few options. Immediately after the opponent dies, dash cancel twice and you can j.lp, slight pause, U+hp. Or you can do the same thing with a sj xx adf lp, U+HP. A cross up is also an option. Sj xx addf (crosses up) lk, U+hp

-Corner: he has a BUNCH. The same ones listed for mid screen or just a
j.U+HP
s.hk xx fly, f.lk, U+HP xx unfly, U+HP
Unfly U+HP
j.lp + AAA
sj.lp xx fly

All of these will work upon push blocking, you just need to alter your timing. If a person is push blocking almost every time, then go for a cross up.

-Corner Mixups:
Dash to the corner UNDER the opponent, trijump back down, HP
Dash to the corner under the opponent, trijump straight down
Call assist, Dash to the corner under opponent, fly to the other side
Basically any reset you could do would be sufficent

COMBOS: what all the newbs came here for. Just please mind the fact that combos are nothing without paying attention to the strategy.

List of Infinites: Its hard to list them since there are so many variations and no-namers but I'll try to cover them all in the actual transcript parts
-Jumping infinite
-Unfly air Infinite
-ROM/ROT infinite
-Japenese 3 hit infinite
-Repulsar Blast infinite
-Jugz smart bomb infinite
- sj cancelling ground infinites
-Corner Infinites
-All Fierce infinite
-FSD infinites

Solo Jumping Infinite Setups: [j.lp, j.mp, j.mk, U+HP]
Variation: [j.lk, j.mp,j.mk, Nuetral HP] (corner)

Started with S.hk
Launch D+HP, addf, lk, lk U+hp
Launch, HP, adf, lp, mp, U+HP
Launch, U+hp, add, U+hp
launch, U+Hp, add, lp, U+hp
Launch, HP, aduf, lk, lk U+hp
launch, hk, addf, lk, lk U+hp
launch, U+HP, adf, lp, U+HP - after the dash, it crosses up and still combos

If you're having problems after the dash, delay a little before the next attack.

*anything beginning with U+Hp after a launch can be done after a two hit jump in. IMPORTANT TO KNOW!

U+HK Starter:
U+HK LOL

Starting with a SJ. Cancelling a c.mp: Can be done after any two hit jump in
c.mp xx sj.lp, adf, lp, U+hp
c.mp xx sj.lk addf, U+hp - RESETS
c.mp xx sj.lk, sj.mk, aduf, lk, mk, U+HP
c.mp xx sj.lk, adU, lp, U+HP

UNFLY Ability: Get hit in the air
s.lp, c.mp xx fly, f.lk, f.U+hp xx unfly, U+HP \/

Unfly Infinite to J. infinite:
See Unfly infinite Variation

FSD mid screen: Must begin first rep with [j.lk, j.mp, j.mk, U+HP]
Note: last hk's OTG
launch, HP, addf, d+hp, hk \/
launch, d+hp, addf, D+hp, hk \/
launch hp, adf, lp, d+HP, hk \/
launch, D+hp, addf, lp, D+hp, hk \/
launch, U+HP, addf, D+HP, HK \/

FSD Corner: Same as above AND
launch hp, adf, hp, hk \/
launch lp, lk, U+hp, aduf, lp, HP, hk \/

Standard Unfly infinite: [lk, U+HP xx FLY, f.lk, f.U+hp xx unfly, U+hp, aduf]
Setup ANYTIME YOU CONNECT A U+HP IN THE AIR

Variation to bring them down to the ground
see here
(http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=3780591&postcount=112)

ROM/ROT infinite: [sj.lk, sj.mk, adf, sj.lk, lk, U+HP]
Setups: See any jumping infinite setup
variation: between reps you can [s.lp, c.mp, xx sj.cancel]

Jap 3 Hit infinite: [sj.lp, adf, sj.lp, U+hp]
Setups: See any jumping infinite setup
Variation: between reps you can [s.lp, c.mp, xx sj.cancel]

Repulsar blast: You in corner [s.lp, c.mp xx lp repulsar blast]
The only way I can set this up is during opponent come in (cross them up) or to reset while the opponent is in the corner. ex: s.hk /\ d+hk

Jugz Smart bomb infinite: [c.hp xx smart bombs]
Note: position yourself perfectly for the smart bombs to hit, but as far as possible at the same time.

Corner HP unfly infinite: [s.hp xx fly, f.lk, f.U+HP xx unfly, U+hp]

Corner HP sj cancel infinite: [s.hp xx sj cancel, lk, adf, lp, U+hp]

LP sj cancel infinite: [s.lp xx sj cancel, lk, adf, lk, lk, hp \/ dash f]
Note: Opponent must be standing

c.lk sj cancel infinite: [c.lk xx sj cancel, lk, addf, lk, hp]
Note: opponent standing or crouching

All fierce infinite: launch [U+hp, adf, U+hp, u+hk]
Note: to go to j.infinite you can sj.U+hp, add, U+hp after any rep

All Fierce infinite Sentinel:
Same as normal, except you can throw in a s.hk after each rep
Variation: [SJ.U+hp, add, U+hp, s.hk]

Jumping unibeam infinite: [s.hp, c.hk xx lp unibeam]
Note: Do between any rep of the jumping infinite while in the corner

RESETS and MIXUPS

Note: (x) defines a cross up
During the jumping infinite, ROT/ROM infinite, 3 hit infinite, all fierce infinite
Note: s.lp to throws, the lp's should whiff, its just to keep them blocking (make them think you missed a PC setup)

Dash to other side > whatever you want
sj. lk, addf (X), U+hp
sj. lp, adf (x) lp, U+hp
Tri jump: subjective to what you want to do. cross up, high, low, same side. just mix it up
Assist + throw, infinite
sj.lk, lk, adf or df, lk, lk, HP. FS animation and do any tri jump/high low mixup
" "AAA assist + sj, dash foward
s.LP + assist, throw
s.hk /\ addf (x) U+hp
s.hk /\ d+hk (x) Note: feel free to mix it up high or low AFTER you land
launch, lp, mk, U+HP, U+hk \/ and (x) with any attack you'd like ground or tri-jump

Random Resets
launch, d+hp, addf, HP air throw \/ dash towards opponent direction call AAA and sj. adf (x) assist hits
Launch U+hp, addf (x) U+HP - Sometimes it combos
launch, lp, lk, U+hp, add, U+HP (blocked), AAA+ sj adf (x) (corner)
launch + drones, lk, d+hp, adF (x) on your way down, drones hit
c.mp xx sj cancel trijump attack either side high or low

Combos with ironman as an assist
Note: there are tons more, these are just the ones i usually use or do crazy damage

Magneto:
launch, hk, addf, lk, mk \/ s.lp+AAA, s.HP, AAA hits twice, xx MT, juggle c.lk, c.hk, tag to ironman, IM hits, infinite
Note: don't have to tag, but you can. Do the MT RIGHT as the second hit of the AAA connects and it will hit perfectly.

c.hk xx sj cancel, add hk \/ c.hk + AAA xx sj cancel, hk, addf, hk xx, HGxxMT
Note: rollable and i think you don't need to do the HG but its harder to time

launch, hk, addf, lk, mk \/ s.hk+AAA xx HG, s.hk xx HG, s.hk xx HG xx MT (thanks illan!)
Note: easy to mash, but if you hk xx shockwave after the 3rd hk you're usually set
Note: this builds up ONE FULL METER, which means if you do it at the beginning of the match, you will have another super to DHC to proton cannon and kills in one combo.

Launch + AAA, hp, addb, MT and either ROM or juggle a slide to ironman

Cable:
Oh my lord, cable is great with AAA. I'm not a cable guy, but damn its tempting from all the damage and shit. The AAA does a real good job of keeping mag/storm/sent away and gives cable a good chance at hitting that AHVB

c.lk+AAA, c.mk, s.hk xx plasma grenade, dash foward, j.lk, j.mp, j.hp xx AHVB
c.lk+AAA, c.mk, s.hk sj cancel a plasma grenade, grenade hits \/ tiger knee air viper beam xx AHVB
c.lk+AAA. c.mk, s.hk, skimitar (whiff), juggle c.lk, crouching or standing hk, xx tiger knee AHVB
(in the corner) c.lk+AAA, c.mk, s.hk xx plasma grenade, dash f, j.lk, j.mp, j.hp xx AHVB, AHVB#2, sj.lk, sj.mp, sj.mk, sj.hp, lp on the way down \/ j.lk, j.mp, j.hp \/ c.lp, c.hk, otg c.lk, s.hk xx AHVB

i havent gotten the last one off, but in theory it should work.

Sentinel
Corner: hp throw, c.lp+AAA, c.hp xx HK drones, s.hp xx RP xx HSF whatever you want (you could launch instead of the s.HP)
Launch lk, fly, ff.lk+AAA, ff.HP xx unfly \/ juggle a c.lp. c.hp xx RP xx HSF
s.lk, s.lp+AAA, RP, juggle a c.lp, c.hp xx RP xx HSF

Storm:
c.lk+AAA, c.mp, s.hp, AAA hits once, s.hp, AAA hits twice, s.hk /\ sj.hk, adf, lk, mp xx LA xx LS
c.lk, c.mp, s.hk+AAA /\ hp, add \/ LA xx LS (do this if you have no decent DHC, otherwise instead of a LA, just launch)
c.lk, c.mp, s.hk+AAA /\ hp, addf \/ typhoon xx HS
c.lk +AAA, c.mk, otg s.hk, AAA hits, s.hk /\ sj.hk, adf, lk, mp xx LA xx LS

Vids:

iLLan vs JAR: i've seen him play in person, one of the best IM's out there
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQCwfwCyGCs

iLLan vs BBHOOD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7hsHTHU-hM

A tribute to Ironman: shows ironmans assist with a lot of low tiers, infinite setups, unfly to ground combos. (i have a different version of this vid for some reason)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-W6a3GzyyI

Killa Kelly's vid: All Fierce infinite, Air to Ground combos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk8233lsRX8

Killa Kelly's Vid More recent: Similar as the last, but cool song :) and some resets
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEnUsvLmV5g

Unfly Combos: beware maker made it repetitive so its longer than it needs to be.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihTIMwM8ABA

Tricks of the trade Chapter 22: resets, combos, etc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6QrRlknddQ

Tricks of the trade chapter 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogysb4p37lw

Killakelly and metrock matches: two good ironman players
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ajxhr4-YuwU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBesdnCPVN4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uC8dObwnyk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8dqHsr5efk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msoWjs__LFk

Requests, if you would like a vid of any combo/reset besides UNFLY combos i can make them but I only have one controller and no stick so it makes it difficult unless i'm at the arcade.

edit: i'm still working on adding more so let me know what you want to see. I still need to add specific strats with specific characters, and specific combos using IM as an assist

CoosCoos

11-06-2006, 06:16 PM

THANK YOU.

This was needed for a long time...seriously...

Request that this thread be stickied.

tech master

11-06-2006, 07:01 PM

yea i've noticed that most of the threads are garbage and nobody really picks up on strategy. all we get are stupid "unfly infinite" threads when we already have all the answers in the older threads.

btw, these are all combos off the top of my head so i MAY have gotten mixed up. if there are any corrections please let me know.

beatsofdevil

11-07-2006, 01:58 PM

kewl!

though the midscreen flying screen infinite setup I use is launch>up+hp>addf>down+hp>.hk it think it's easiest.

yeah bringing them down with unfly is pretty difficult...

B&B

11-07-2006, 02:13 PM

is there a way to combo proton cannon?

tech master

11-07-2006, 02:17 PM

kewl!

though the midscreen flying screen infinite setup I use is launch>up+hp>addf>down+hp>.hk it think it's easiest.

yeah bringing them down with unfly is pretty difficult...

i'll add that setup! i guess its subjective to the player whats easy. and for the unfly its difficult when you're first learning it, but then sooner or later you get the hang of it. with an assist its not hard at all, you just need an assist that does it with ease. theres another setup thats actually easier without an assist, i'm going to add it.

is there a way to combo proton cannon?

dood read the friggin thread. i swear you wont regret it.

beatsofdevil

11-07-2006, 03:58 PM

is there a way to combo proton cannon?
several ways......

beatsofdevil

11-07-2006, 04:04 PM

also, like buckethead said somewhere, mastering infinite straight to proton cannon (no .hp, no .lp to crouching .mp) is best I believe. no worry for dizzy and not that hard.

KiLLaKeLLy

11-07-2006, 05:30 PM

B&B

11-07-2006, 05:43 PM

what if i don't use psylock. I use strorm and hayato.

Geronimo

11-07-2006, 07:11 PM

Nice work man. I feel I should add to it.

Here's the OLD IM Guide I wrote up for www.video-opera.com ...back in 2004.

Originally posted by Geronimo
Iron Man

Best assists:

- Doom 
- Sentinel <A> or <Y>
- Storm <A>
- Psylocke <A>
- War Machine 
- Cable 
- Rogue <Y>

Character overview:

Iron Man (IM) is a character made for both rush and zoning. The threat of getting hit w/ the infinite (see below) from one of his many set-ups (also, see below), makes his rush deadly. Though, not as fast Magneto, Storm, or [a flying] Sentinel, the infinite threat helps make up for it. As for his zoning game, IM relies on a solid "ground-controlling" assist (e.g. Sentinel <Y>, Storm <A>, Doom , etc.), his Smart Bombs (LK+HP; whose distance can also be controlled), Uni-beams (QCF+LP_HP), and his j.hp. He can easily use all of these tools to shut anyone out and keep'em where he wants them to be.

Iron man IS NOT equal to War Machine (WM). The first major difference is speed; War Machine's Smart Bombs are much faster, and so is he overall. Also, (due to the difference in speed and move properties) some combos IM can do, WM can't, and vise versa. WM has 2 supers (Proton Cannon = QCF+2P and War Destronyer = QCF+2K) to IM's 1 (Proton Cannon = QCF+2P). And their 2 Proton Cannons (PC's) are also different, WM shoots Missles (which cause bounce if hit on juggle), and IM shoots a giant beam (which hits as a beam on juggle). Same applies to their Uni-beams and c.hp's. There are many other differences b/w them, but these are the most noticable/important.

Ways to open a match (the "face-off"):

IM fits in any slot on a team. He can come 1st (to gain meter/kill using INF), 2nd (for Frame-Kill or DHC option), or 3rd (main assist). Of course, the slot he gets depends on the team he's on. But most people play him 1st or 3rd. So here are some ways to start the match:

1.) Block.

IM is relatively slower than basically most of the characters you'll probably be up against in the "face-off" (Magneto, Cable, and Storm for the most part). He is generally faster than Sentinel, but that's only because Sentinel can't start the match flying. So blocking is one of the best things you can do. And you're better off blocking low since that's the way most Magneto's and Storm's start the match, hoping to hit and go into "1-hit kill" combo. Cable will probably go defensive, and Sentinel will either go defensive, or try an over-head. In Sentinel's case, he'll probably go offensive, since IM really can't do anything against his super-armor at the "face-off."

2.) Jump straight up and block.

Pretty much the same as above - start the match on the defensive. Be sure to jump straight up, since jumping in a direction (u/f or u/b) takes longer and you won't be able to block. This is probably your best option against a Sentinel.

3.) (Switch trick) Dash-back.

Probably the safest defensive opener. I'm not sure on how well this works since I've never really tried it. But IM's back-dash is relatively fast, so it should be safe.

All the "face-off" options after this are offensive, and can be done w/ or w/o the switch trick.

4.) c.lk->c.mp->s.hk / \ (AC_INF set-up->INF)...

Generic "face-off" opener. Not that good, but it's decent at catching people off gaurd. Can also be done w/o the c.mp, it's only their jus' in case the c.lk is blocked, so you don't do a s.hk and are open to retaliation.

5.) s.hk / \ (AC_INF set-up->INF)

IMO, better than #4 simply because s.hk is fast, has good priority, and has retarded-ly long vertical range (but not-so-hot horizontal range). This will catch anyone who tries to jump into whatever, and won't get caught by a c.lk because IM is air-borne when he does it. Best done using switch trick.

6.) jump-up->j.lk->j.mp, slight pause->j.mk, (bit longer than 1st) pause->j.u+hp ->[INF]xN...

Only works if the opponent jumps too. Good at making the opponent scared to use any kind of jump as an opener.

7.) jump u/f->AD d/f->ad.lk->ad.mk_mp_d+hp \ / d.s_c.lk->(whatever)...

Tri-jump off of face-off. Ok option, but not as good as Storm or Magneto since IM's AD is slow in comparison to those two. Can't be done w/ switch trick.

Bread & Butter Combos (B&B's):

(Coming soon...)

The Infinite (INF):

The infinite is a major part of [most] IM's gameplan(s), and the way he deals out the most damage. It is done by:

[j.lp->j.mp, slight pause->j.mk, (bit longer than 1st) pause->j.u+hp \ /]xN

At first, the timing is a bit tricky, but w/ practice, it becomes EASY. Arguably, the easiest in the game.

INF set-ups:

IMO, there are only 3 (well 4, including the use of assists) INF set-ups worth learning. 1 is off of a non-2-hit jump-in (I'll explain why this is an important fact later on) AC, and the other 2 are also AC's, but can be done after a 2-hit jump-in.

The 2-hit jump-in is important because if you hit them w/ a hard normal (Fierce/Hard Punch or Roundhouse/Hard Kick), in an AC, after a 2-hit jump, then that hard normal will cause Fly Screen (FS). And, [outside of the corner] FS will cause your opponent to fall straight to the ground, prohibiting you from getting the infinite on them. But, IM is a special case, because he can control the direction his air HP hits: up, forward/neutral, or down. Hitting HP up, does not cause FS, while neutral and down do. IM's air HP is controlled by hitting either up or down w/ the HP. IM's air HK can also be controlled in the same way.

- The set-ups:

1.) d.c.lk->c.mp->s.hk / \ sj.hp_d+hp, AD d/f->ad.lk->ad.mk, pause->ad.u+up \ / (INF)...

This is the set-up that can't be done after a 2-hit jump because of the sj.hp being either neutral or hit downward. Also, this set-up will work off of a AA s.hk if the sj.hp is neutral.

2.) tri-jump lk->mk_mp_d+hp \ / d.c.lk->s.hk / \ sj.u+hp, AD d_d/f->pause, ad.lp->ad.u+hp \ / (INF)...

This, IMO, is his best set-up because 1.) it does the most damage of any PRACTICAL [solo] set-up, 2.) it's easier to pull off in high pressure situations than set-up #3 (see below) and 3.) it makes you look super l337 whenever you do it out of close combat. If doing this on heavier characters, a c.mp can be added after the d.c.lk.

3.) tri-jump lk->mk_mp_d+hp \ / d.c.lk->c.mp, *super-jump cancel* / \ sj.lp, AD f->ad.lp->ad.u+hp \ / (INF)...

This is the now famous "Japanese Super-jump cancel set-up." It was founded in japan, and the rest of the title is self-explanitory. Upon trying this, you'll probably discover that you can't super-jump cancel the c.mp. Well, that's probably because you're not putting the stick/pad back to neutral before the super-jump. The timing is a little tight, but once you get used to it, it's easy and seems to become more leniant(sp?).

*Note: In the corner, you can do set-ups #2 & #3 after a HP throw.

- Other note-worthy set-ups:

> (In Corner) d.c.lk->c.mp->s.hk / \ sj.u+hp, AD u_f->ad.hp, pause->(OTG) sj.hk \ / (INF)...

This is a very good set-up. But since you activate FS, due to the sj.hp->ad.hp, you can't really end the INF in any "real" way. You're only option is to do it until the opponent dizzies. But, you can do this after a 2-hit jump-in. But the inability to end in a fatal way is the only reason I don't consider this set-up as useful as the 3 stated above.

*Note: The ad.hp and the OTG-ing sj.hk MUST be done w/ nuetral.

> (In Corner) tri-jump lk->mk_mp_d+hp \ / d.c.lk->c.mp, *super-jump cancel* / \ sj.lp, AD f->ad.lp->ad.hp->ad.hk \ / (INF)...

This is basically the same as set-up #3, except the end is like the set-up posted above. I also think this is a useful set-up, but the in-ablilty to end it in a way that will kill your opponent makes it less useful.

> j.u+hk \ / (INF)...

This is a good set-up, insanely easy and doesn't suffer from either of the FS penalties from the ones posted above. The only problem is that you'll almost never hit anyone w/ this. It's good if you use it to mixup up your game and surprise your opponent w/ it. BUT, this can be used on a Sentinel player how does a careless HSF which you super-jump out of.

Ways to end INF:

Once you get the INF to about 35-45 hits, stop the INF and end the combo, 'cuz anywhere around or after that, the opponent'll dizzy. There are a couple of ways to end the INF, but the most common, practical, and deadly is comboing into a PC. This can be accomplished a couple of different ways:

1.) (On lighter to normal weight characters) [INF]xN->j.lp->j.mp->j.mk->j.u+hp \ / [INF]x1 \ / PC.

Just do the infinite, speed up your 2nd to last rep so it has no pauses in it, land, do one more rep at normal speed, land then PC right away. This works both mid-screen and in the corner. I never do this, so I can't post much more on it.

2.) (On any weight character) [INF]xN \ / HP Repulsor Blast (HCB+P) (2 hits) XX PC.

This one is pretty straight-forward. Do the infinite, land, HP Repulsor Blast (RB), then cancel into PC. This may work mid-screen, but I've never tested it (SOMEONE PLEASE VERIFY). But this works in the corner for sure. Not that hard, and it's pretty flashy. There's one [major] drawback though, sometimes the PC will completely whiff after the RB if you're not fast enough w/ the cancel.

3.) (On light to normal characters) [INF]xN->j.lp->j.mp->j.mk->j.u+hp \ / [INF]x1 \ / s.hp XX PC.

Basically the same thing as #1, except you throw in a s.hp before the PC. This is THE finisher of choice for light to normal weight characters. This is the most practical, considering it's simplicity and it's easiness to pull off in high pressure situations. ALWAYS go for this one if you want to end your INF, unless the opponent is heavy. That's why you go for...

4.) (On heavy-weight character) [INF]xN \ / s.lp->c.mp XX PC.

...this ender of choice for heavy-weight characters. Not much to explain. Jus' be careful when doin' the ground chain into PC, timing's kinda tricky on that one.

5.) (On any weight character) [INF]xN \ / s.hp XX HP RB (2 hits) XX PC.

A mix of #2 and #3. Works on everyone though (unlike #2), but has the same drawback of in-consistancy (like #3). Probably the easiest of the flashiest INF enders into PC.

You can also jus' do a s.hk upon landing from the INF into AC (more on those later), which is do-able anywhere. The drawbacks of this is that the damage isn't that hot compared to PC, you can't DHC out for the "guarantee" kill (in most cases, even w/o the DHC, the kill is guaranteed anyways), and you kind of give up positioning advantage (depending on AC used).

Guard Breaks (GB's):

Ok, IM's INF is a major part of his gameplan because he can kill whoever he gets it on simply by landing one hit (1-hit kill). BUT, IM can also take out a whole teams by the INF alone. "Who's this done?" you ask. Simple, GB. No matter if it's blocked or not, IM's GB's will should always lead to an INF. IM can kill one team member, GB the next, kill that one, then do the same to last one. And that is why IM's GB's are amongst the most feared in the game. So GB-ing is also a major part of IM's gameplan.

IM has quite a few useful GB's, all of which lead into INF killing cycle. But I'll jus' list the ones worth knowing.

1.) (On fall-in, in corner) jump up, pause->j.u+hp \ / (INF).

The most straight-forward and basic GB IM has. Not much needs to be explained really. This is the most generic GB in the game, since almost everyone has some form of it. Pretty good all around GB, except that it can be hit out off pretty easily compared to the other ones. Is escapable via pushblock.

2.) (On fall-in, in corner) jump-up, pause->AD d->ad.u+hp \ / (INF).

Basically the same thing as #1, except for the AD d. Not too difficult, since it's basically the same thing. But, IMO, this one is better than #1 simply because of the AD positioning making it harder to hit out of, and it can't be escaped by pushblock.

3.) (On fall-in) / \ sj.lp, AD f->ad.lp, pause->ad.u+hp \ / (INF).

This, IMO, is IM's best GB for a couple of reasons: 1.) it's not pushblock-able, 2.) air lp is faster than air u+hp, and 3.) this is IM's ONLY (to my knowledge) MID-SCREEN GB. Also known as, "un-escapable GB [for IM]."

4.) (On fall-in, in corner) jump up, pause->j.u+hp \ / / \ sj.lp, AD f->ad.lp, pause->ad.u+hp \ / (INF).

This is jus' #1 and #3 put together. And this was also the original "un-escapable GB [for IM]." Hadn't this not been a corner- only GB, this probably would be his best one. This was originally developed and first used in Japan.

IM as the assist

IM is a pretty good assist character. His Projectile assist (Type A) is a Uni-beam. This is good, because it's a multi-hitting/chipping beam type of projectile which will keep the oppenent locked down for awhile. Can also be followed up by a combo if it hits. But best used w/ traps and zone games. Works well w/ (in no real order) Cable, Spiral, Sentinel, Doom, and Cyclops.

His AAA (Type B) is a RB. IMO, this one is his best assist. Simply because it's combo friendly, and covers common attack angles. It also hurts like a bitch. Works beats w/ combo-ers and pixies, but also works well w/ zoners. Works well w/ (in no real order) Cable, Sentinel, Magneto, Storm and WM.

IM's Y assist sucks, it's his s.hk. The only real possible use it can be good for is counter-tag, and even that isn't that good. So avoid this like the plague.

Ok, that's enough for now. More later.

Originally posted by Geronimo
Yeah, it was jus' brought to my attention by Mr.tragic that everything I put up for IM was tools, and no real gameplan or strat tips. So I guess I'll put that stuff in now.

The super...PROTON CANNON!

- PC is pretty slow on start-up and recovery. So only use it in combos (usually to finish infinite, for a sure kill, or for a DHC tag-out). The recovery is REDICULOUSLY long, so if it's blocked, YOU WILL be punished. Cable can AHVB (or combo even combo into it, distance permitting), Sentinel can RP XX HSF into "god knows what" (or even d.s.hk / \ (whatever), distance permitting), Storm can LA XX LS->"DHC of Death" (or even d.s.hk / \ AC XX LA XX LS->"DHC of death"), and Magneto can wave-dash into c.lk->c.hp / \ (whatever evil he feels like inflicting on you). But, the timing on the wave-dash punishing is actually pretty tight, so you can probably block it. Of course, if this happens enough times (which it shouldn't be, since getting blocked PCs'll get you killed if you do it once), the punishing character will mix it up and hit you w/ something you're not ready for. There is a solution to this though...(more on that later on)...

The recovery is bad, but not so bad that you can be hit even after the PC actually hits. They can roll, but your recovery will end, and you'll be able to block well before they can get up and hit you. If anything, that's actually worse for them 'cuz you can get'em on wake-up.

- THE ONLY COMBO (outside of infinite into PC) you'll ever need/should use to go into PC is:

c.lk->c.mp XX PC

Only do this for sure kill, don't have confidence in your ability to go into an INF set-up, or plan on doing a DHC right out and don't have the time for an INF set-up.

- The beam on the PC is INSTANT. Don't get that confused, the start-up is still slow as shit. "WTF you talkin' 'bout then?!" Well, that means the cannon calling part is the slow part, but once it starts, the beam the comes out is instant. So once the screen freeze happens, if the oppenent isn't blocking, or in a neutral position that'll allow them to block, they're gonna eat the PC. So for a free PC, you can DHC into it from another super that has a really fast (e.g. Magneto's Magnetic Tempest).

- The max height of the beam is a little above normal jump height. This is useful to know. Since the beam is instant, DHC-ing into PC will nail anyone and anything that isn't at super-jump height or higher, who isn't already blocking or in a position to block. That means you can nail low-flying Sentinels, Storms who are jus' spazzing on HP after jumping, tri-jumping Magnetos, and/or jumping HP-whoring Cables who get careless. Then for extra gaurantee of the kill, DHC into something else...HSF, Hail Storm, and HVB are prime choices for this.

Manual tag-out (into IM):

IM's tag-out is kinda strange. He does an air LK, at the "homing" tragectory that all tag-outs have. It's strange because the angle it comes in at is pretty low, which disables it from being combo-ed into the way you would w/ other characters.

- The best option is too jus' dash, jump, and start infinite. Which works [on everyone] probably 85-90% of the time.

- There's only one other option, and that's to dash and do a s.hk / \ AC. Sometimes a [OTG] d.c.lk is required before the s.hk, depending on distance. You may be able to do an AC into INF set-up or somethin', but a hard hit downward may cause FS. But [as far as I know] that's random, so it's hard to tell what you'll be able to do consistantly.

And no, you can't PC upon landing after a tag-out that hit. It is THAT slow. They can land, then roll, and bring the pain on you if you try.

Assist killing:

IM isn't good at assist killing at all. The best ways you have are to punish using an assist, or land infinite on both point and assist, snapback, then jus' do an infinite w/ retarded timing so that it doesn't combo properly and thus, the damage is reset each time. IM also has the option of doing:

s.hk XX fly / \ [f.u+hk, pause]xN

The most likely/pratical thing you'll end up doing is probably doing the infinite on point, snapback, the GB and infinite main assist.

Random shit I don't know where to catagorize to, and will jus' let tragic and eKiN take care of doing that:

- When IM does a s.hk, he's floating, and isn't on the ground. So you won't be hit by c.lk. This move also has rediculously long vertical range, but rediculously short horizontal range. And w/ it's good priority, this makes it a good AA. BUT, the recovery is pretty bad, so if you it's blocked, cancel it into a LP Uni-beam, or a Fly XX Un-fly.

Now, remember when I said there's a solution to the "blocked PC mixup" (see "The super...PROTON CANNON!")...yeah, that solution is s.hk. You can s.hk into infinite set-up or AC. But of course, be careful, 'cuz this can be baited out and punished if used carelessly.

s.hk is also good to stop rushdown cold. Random s.hk into INF set-up will scare the shit outta anyone and'll make'em think twice about trying to rush IM again.

- s.hp eats thru/stops some things (Cable's Grenades, Sentinel's drones, amongst other things). Yeah, pretty useless, but still, good to know.

- Un-fly mode is really good when using IM. Mostly because of the un-fly infinite, which is basically doing his most generic AC consecutibely. The most basic variation goes like this:

s.hk / \ sj.lk->sj.u+hp, AD u_u/f->ad.lk->ad.u+hp XX fly->f.lk->f.u+hp [XX un-fly->sj.u+hp, AD u+u/f->ad.lp->ad.u+hp XX fly->f.lp->f.u+hp]xN

This can be done for awhile, since un-fly doesn't wear off in the middle of combos (Special thanks to mixup for sharing that w/ me).

- IM's HP Throw is pretty good. If you get it in the corner, you can either do j.lk into INF (which requires pretty strict timing) or OTG and go into an INF set-up afterwards.

IM's [ground] HP Throw into assist combos are some of the best/deadliest in the game. HP Throw into Sentinel <Y> or Doom is basically free INF set-up.

Also, if you can time your INF so that you can [air] HP throw into Sentinel <Y> (would have to throw backwards), you'll be able to j.lk->j.u+hp \ / continue INF for an effective reset. But dizzy count would still be in un-resetted.

- Think when using IM. Doing random j.lp (even though it has pretty good priority) and hoping to hit so you can go into INF will get you killed.

But also, try to stay on the offensive. 'Cuz once IM is on the defensive, it's pretty hard to change the pace.

- IM has a pretty solid air game. Most of which revolves around his air HP, whose direction can be controled (upward, downward, or neutral). Use Neutral zone and keep rushers out. Use UP to catch opponents who are slightly above you (then you can follow up into combo), and use DOWN in tri-jumps.

His air LK and LP have pretty good priority and can lead into some good combos. A AC from IM can do damage in the 50-70 pt. range, which is insanely good for an AC.

His air HK's direction can also be controlled, in the same way. Air D+HK is the kneedive, which puts you into normal-jump mode afterward (which probably results in no more un-fly if you have it; but you will be able to call assists).
Neutral is basically his s.hk upside-down. Not that good IMO, but it does hit high.
And air U+HK is basically a s.hk in the air, which causes float-stun, and you'll be able to follow up w/ INF, or s.hk into AC. But this is insanely easy to see coming/defend against, since it's pretty slow.

- Making good use of IM's projectile moves (Uni-beam and Smart Bombs) makes him a solid zoner (w/ the help of the right assists). Using these, air [neutral] HP, and an assist together, effectively, make it pretty hard to get in on IM.

Also, the distance IM's Smart Bombs fly at is also controllable. Hold back to make them fly short, nuetral for normal distance, and forward for far distance.

- IM is a decent rushdown character as well. And what rushdown is complete w/o a tri-jump...? IM has a tri-jump, which is:

super-jump / \ AD d/f, ad.lk->ad.mk_mp_d+hp

There are 3 different ways to end the tri-jump. MP and MK are basically there for [slightly faster] speed (there really isn't a difference b/w them and D+HP in terms of speed), and D+HP is there for damage. But MP and MK hit high, while D+HP doesn't, meaning it can be blocked while crouching.

- Full-screen c.hp (that missile) will combo into a tag-out if it hits.

Originally posted by Geronimo
Ok, few corrections on my IM posts:

1.) Beam on PC is NOT instant. There's enough time (probably 1 frame or so) for a low-flying Sentinel to un-fly. Not, there are probably only a handful of people on the planet who can do this at will.

2.) IM's un-fly mode is also good for gettin' infinite set-ups out of nowhere.

3.) Another good GB, which works both mid-screen and in corner, is:

/ \ sj.u+hp, AD d/f->pause, ad.u+lp->ad.u+hp \ / [INF]xN...

Picked this up off of a thread in SRK. I believe this GB was discovered by superior-tech, but I might be wrong.

Timing is pretty screwy, depending on if they take the first hit or not, but once you experiment around w/ it, it isn't too hard. Note: I haven't exactly done extensive experimenting w/ it myself. Also, positioning is extremely important. You wanna hit the openning sj.u+hp at the peak of your super jump.

And yes, I know...it's HELLA out-dated. But I've been meaning to transfer it over from vo.com, and I figured here is as good a place as any.

Maybe I'll update it sometime...

Hope that helps.

- Geronimo

tech master

11-08-2006, 03:45 AM

tech, love the tread, i wish this was here when i was trying to learn IM. That first vid of mine that was the same as the 2nd vid i made, it was just somthing to show that guy, i didnt even know he was going to youtube it. ha, thats why they are so similar. Something i would like to note bout IM's air to air lk, it works great agaisnt a lot of characters. on characters that will come from the ground up to you in the air throwing out the lk while they are comming up usually beats them. Its super easy to hit confirm and follow up afterwards and do whatever.

beats, i agree, connecting the PC straight from inf is best, timing it aint that hard too, granted i still miss it more than i should, its great to learn.

of course you do! LOL i used most of your vids as examples. I'll elaborate more on that lk effectiveness tomorrow. I just wrote strats for each of the gods and shoryuken didnt save it ::sweat: Am i the only person who has a huge problem going straight to PC after a rep of an infinite?

what if i don't use psylock. I use strorm and hayato.

You're not comprehending my post right. If you read my review on "s.lp" I say its used to catch falling characters to PC. Anytime the opponent is in the air and has not recovered from hit stun, you can combo the proton cannon. On the ground also. I also stated that the HP AND repulsar blast can be linked to the proton cannon. Seriously man dont be a pest. I seriously mean it when just about everything you need to know is in this thread. READ it and read it carefully. Who cares if you can do a combo if you don't have the understanding of why it connects. Learn your character, and this thread was designed to teach you. I mean for christ sake, the videos i posted alone will answer everything you need to know.

B&B

11-08-2006, 05:11 AM

Alright, i'll read it carefully.

Thanks for the info and the great guide :)

KiLLaKeLLy

11-08-2006, 08:12 AM

Am i the only person who has a huge problem going straight to PC after a rep of an infinite?

I have troubles too, but the way i get it done is like so, i do the infinte, decide when i am going to PC and on the inf. rep i am going to do the pc on i slow the infinite WAY down so that they end up higher in the air and i do the FP right before i land on the ground, once u land do PC, should work every time. I still miss sometimes but thats cause i will dash instead of doing pc, or the command just doesnt come out for some reason. So, if u arent already doing it that way, give it a shot. See how that goes. Peace

Illan Jr

11-08-2006, 10:28 AM

Finally a good IM thread. I wished this was out when i started to learn IM . I learned the hard way n KillaKelly knows what im talking about.Good job Tech Master and Geronimo , the thread is very detailed.
- If you wanna learn Iron Man and your newthis thread will help . i give it 5 stars out of 5

beatsofdevil

11-08-2006, 01:39 PM

Yeah just when you wanna do the pc just slow it down and do the up+hp JUST before you hit the ground.....there ya go!

also his gb (anywhere nj.>right before you hit the ground up+hp) is inescapable and the only one should ever need. simple as hell just gotta time it right.

B&B

11-08-2006, 04:09 PM

whats the easiest infinite? Sorry if i'm asking a dumb question.

Green

11-08-2006, 07:48 PM

You're kidding, right? [uf+j.lp j.mp j.mk j.u+hp]

B&B

11-09-2006, 05:20 AM

alright, thanks. I'll give it a try.

ragnafrak

11-09-2006, 10:43 AM

if anyone's having problems with keeping them low enough with jumping infinite.. try something out, do a few reps, land after an u+HP, then see how long you can stand there before you have to rejump with j.LP again.. it's really long

the longer the time between each of your hits, the lower the enemy will stay.

also tech master, i didn't see this listed anywhere in infinites.

(in corner) inf setup, [j.LK-MP-MK-HP]xN

so flashy, works on storm.. very difficult..

tech master

11-09-2006, 03:20 PM

as in a neutral hp? thats pretty cool, honestly didn't know you could do it. i'll put it in

ragnafrak

11-09-2006, 04:19 PM

yeah practice it for a while and you'll find out how odd the timing is.. to start you need to do the LK and HP at the immediate starts and ends of the jump

i'm not sure who else it works on honestly.. i would guess anyone but not something you could do to 40 hits

B&B

11-09-2006, 05:39 PM

what does addf and adf mean?

Geronimo

11-09-2006, 07:06 PM

what does addf and adf mean?
Air Dash Down forward and Air Dash forward

B&B

11-10-2006, 05:14 AM

alright, thanks a bunch man :)

ragnafrak

11-10-2006, 08:52 PM

tech master:

i played with it a little more and you can do it anywhere, but your initial jump has to leave you point blank in the air with storm.. there's also a kooky variation that has nazi timing.

trijump LK-LK, c.LK+psy-s.LP, dash, jump forward j.LP-MP-MK-HP, then either

[j.LK-MP-MK-HP]xN
or
[j.LK-MP-MK-u+HP, j.LP-MP-MK-HP]xN

end either with ... HP, s.LP-c.MP xx PC

you can probably also start it with a hit off the 1st part of doom, or rocket punch, or mag-a (c.LK+mag, s.MP, dash, j.LK-MP-MK-HP, etc)

sealhunta

12-03-2006, 06:29 AM

i only read through half of ur stuff quickly but do u ever do in the corner. [j.lk j.lk j. U+HP]

like u do the inifinite as normal and then when u get into the corner ucan just do lk lk hp repeat.

tech master

12-03-2006, 02:00 PM

yea but theres no real point besides to get fancy, and if you want to get fancy theres much more you can do :)

Green

12-03-2006, 02:33 PM

j.lk j.mk j.u+hp should be able to take the opponent, what, 33% farther than j.lp j.mp j.mk j.u+hp, right? Just don't mess up.

tech master

12-05-2006, 01:21 AM

hey, fun little setup i have with unfly and RP assist

tri-jump lk, hp \/ c.lk+RP, s.mp, slight delay, c.hp xx fly, fly foward, f.lk, f.U+hp, unfly, delay as late as possible this U+hp \/ s.hk, /\ sj u/b, U+HP, adF, U+HP, U+HK xx fly, f.U+HP, unfly, U+hp, adf, lp, U+hP xx fly, f.lp, f.U+hp, unfly, U+HP, j.infinite. i think i got all the necessary moves to get them down to the ground, but i dont really pay attention when i'm going it

random fact: you can link a s.hp, s.hk midscreen on a falling character

J360

12-05-2006, 12:30 PM

i like the thread good post for real like all the other iron guys said i wish this would have been around when i was learning him =D

tech master

12-07-2006, 03:36 AM

thanks, just trying to get more people playing him and to get real good. i think the lack of more great IM players would help clear his name up. there are still a lot of players out there who think he's crap, and i just cant see why.

Random fancy EASY combo in the corner

s.hk /\ sj.D+HP, lk, lk, U+hp \/ s.hp, s.hk+doom, nuetral hp, hits rocks, D+HP, hits rocks again \/ sj.lp, sj.lk, U+hp, adf, lp, nuetral hp, opponent knocked to the ground OTG hk \/ FSD infinite.

to make it prettier with more strict timing:

s.hk /\ sj.D+HP, lk, lk, U+hp \/ s.hp, s.hk+doom, nuetral hp, hits rocks, U+HP, adF lp, U+hp and if they're the right height, infinite. if not, fly combo :)

its funny looking because you use your air dash hella late and after a FS animation

BucketHead

12-08-2006, 12:30 AM

I Love Ironman just like everybody else but if you think about it, the character fucking sucks, I just play him because he's My favorite and becuase i put so much time and effort into the guy. But it's just fucked up when you have to fight chars. like Sent. and then you realize there's nothing you can do, because people see Ironman and start running away (smart thing to do) when all Ironman wants to do is talk.
(How's it going ironman) - (Just chillin)
(pap, pap)........bloop, bloop, blow,blah,...repeat :rofl: It's cool though yall better run. Maybe There should be more Ironman players to help elevate his game and make him become recognized because most ppl only see him as a gimmick char.

Good Shit Guys! :tup: :tup:

tech master

12-08-2006, 02:54 AM

yes, running away is definitely his weekness. tell you the truth, i'd rather fight against a runaway sent than a runaway storm. she jumps too damn high. thats why i tried to make it a point to bait and counter. solo ironman rush will get blocked every single move and he relies on assists. thats why its so important to try and get that first hit/dhc/guardbreak or whatever may give IM the head start.

J360

12-10-2006, 10:13 PM

sent gets beat out hard core ya just gotta use some different teams with him. against sent caps i use IM/Sent/Cap IM himself is like a smaller sent and has fast flys into unibeams. I play with smoothviper, justin, sanford, random other NY heads who have beastly sentinels and ive had to switch around my IM style many times to fight their sents but theres an IM team for every situation. im probably gonna put up a thread about IM teams really soon.

tech master

12-10-2006, 11:06 PM

one thing i've never done really was a IM/cap team. i've thought about it, but for some reason never practiced. have any setups/tips/combos for that duo?

J360

12-11-2006, 11:14 AM

yea lots of damaging combos with that team. theres stuff like air inf into commando+fierce unibeam and the way it hits makes it unpunishable by cables hyper. theres alot of strats for IM/sent/cap its alot of support for IM and sent i would post more but i gotta go when i get a chance ill post more about em

scrubkiller

12-11-2006, 01:55 PM

iroman is underated 4 realz... we need more IM playaz 2 rep his shit... You Techmaster holla atcha boy so we can burn something and get on some crack hour...

tech master

12-11-2006, 03:11 PM

yea, i use msp, santhrax, row more than any other teams but i usually do the best with IM teams hah his infinite is just too good. you bout to be in town today mike? blunts + marvel sound good

Illan Jr

12-12-2006, 08:47 AM

nah blunts + marvel + IM now thats how its should be done . but seriously before i kill this thread with comments like that . Its true its challenging to play IM against the top 4 especially when they know what to look out for and keep away, but IMO I would never like to consider IM a Gimmick char. Lets give Tony Starks more credit than that : )

phat_toi

12-12-2006, 09:28 AM

The way i see it who gives a fuck how many ppl use IM. If you NIce enough then YOU NICE ENOUGH!!!!

With that said i wana play some mvc2=[

J360

12-12-2006, 12:29 PM

The way i see it who gives a fuck how many ppl use IM. If you NIce enough then YOU NICE ENOUGH!!!!

With that said i wana play some mvc2=[

good shit i wanna crack it up now too but i got finals =(

Illan Jr

12-13-2006, 09:17 AM

Hey Toi, what up where in so cal do you live? Do you stop by FFA once in a while?

phat_toi

12-13-2006, 10:45 AM

Hey Toi, what up where in so cal do you live? Do you stop by FFA once in a while?

Nope. Im not feeling FFA much. Shit is pretty far too.Im trying to get back into Mvc maybe one day ill stop by see wassup

LALA LALA i be smoking
LALA LALA i be choking
them BS trees you be rolling, wont even GIVE me a buzz Me i GET LIT

Music gets me Hyped haha =PP <3

xxphilopiaxx

12-16-2006, 12:25 AM

Nice thread. Lots of stuff in here to help improve my [weak] IM game.

I play Sim AAA, IM proj, cable AAA and Sim AAA, Sent ground, IM AAA

To add to your combos/INF set up...this is my fav to use with sim:

Launch, sj.FP xx adf, lp, u+fp xx fly, fly lk + sim AAA, fly fp xx unfly, assist hits, land...

...jump infinite.
...proton cannon
...[with unfly], falling u+fp xx fly u+fp > stuff.

the set up it self does a nice amount of damage...Id say about half life on cable.

tech master

12-16-2006, 02:38 PM

yea, Sim AAA is a friggin great assist. a lot of setups can be done with it. i use to mess aroudn with mag/sim AAA

KiLLaKeLLy

12-19-2006, 11:02 PM

tech master

12-20-2006, 12:03 AM

you played pretty much the way i would have played. calm and careful, only reseting if it was worth it. the only big mistakes i saw were ground smart bombs when the character was on the other side of the screen, only purpose i saw in that was possibly to bait, but still kinda risky. you also had one air combo ending in the U+hk \/ and you crossed up with a s.hk. in these situations i ALWAYS call doom because its completely safe. what usually works for me is when i land i call doom and tri jump over them which happens so quick it sets you up perfect for the infinite. the only other tip i could give you was one oyu already knew (against randy lew) one of ironmans worse matchups is against a sent/cyke team and you were being pretty damn aggressive. it might have been okay if you did choose cyke, but still a tough matchup. randy new exactly what to do against ironman. fly, but not high. good shit though, crizzle and the other people oyu beat aren't easy people to beat haha. i've never seen crizzle play so slow! oh, and i do question a few of your DHC/random doom supers lol

KiLLaKeLLy

12-20-2006, 01:31 AM

kamia

12-20-2006, 12:28 PM

hey killa... always enjoy see your im matches as illan also...

I get pissed off when the fly dun came out same as you, all my IM tricks came from your videos and old ones from jhon.

c ya!

tech master

12-20-2006, 12:45 PM

god, every random ball super with doom was an accident, they were all attempted dashes, i dont know why it kept supering, but it did and it was pretty disturbing. Also, for the most part, if you ever see me do an air combo that ends in u+hk, u know my fly didnt come out so i quickly switched gears and went for a cross up instead. what match did i do the ground smartbombs, so i can maybe give some more insight as to why i did that. And thanks critique its much appreciated, i am always looking to improve my game in some way. Gotta stay fresh and all.

yea i figured the doom supers were accident. as for the U+hk i figured that too, but it still can work out as a good reset. good instinct on trying to cross up, but just thought i'd mention that it can usually be pretty successful if you call doom. kind of like the way you start up at the beginning of a match with a j.crossup+doom, its the same situation.

i'm not sure which match you did the ground smart bombs, but its not that big of a problem since you really only did it once or so. i've had success as using it to bait before, but i've also done it by accident and eaten complete shit for it lol. you're one of the better IM players, i think the best advice (since you already have the strategy down) is to just work on that execution and playing against turtlers (us IM players now how hard that is). i also don't know if you like to risk shit, but sometimes playing unorthodox will get you wins. randy seemed to be pretty safe and knew what to look for, so sometimes using IM's bajillion resets MIGHT help as a last resort.

KiLLaKeLLy

12-20-2006, 02:09 PM

yea i figured the doom supers were accident...

You know, thats not a bad idea, at least against randy, he plays really safe, but from what i have seen, he tends to get crossed up alot. Now, IM aint exactly the fastest character out there, but some of his resets are pretty swift. Also, yeah, i am one to take gambles, especially if what i was originally doing wasnt working.

On the reset thing, it never occured to me to try something similar to what i do at the beginning of a match. Ima try that next time. Cause the way i do it now, i am just launching and trying to make them guess which side i am on. They block it, then they land reletively safely. however, if i try to do it like i like to start a match, even if they block it i should have em pinned down. Next time my fly doesnt come out ill see if i can remember to give that a try. Only thing i can think of that might get me though, is when they are falling they do a jab, but i guess thats what doom is for, he should hit them or something. Hmm, ima run some shit when i get home. Ideas, ideas, ideas. heh. thanks again for the insight. It gets me thinking, cuase pretty much right now, i dont have anything new going on with IM.

tech master

12-20-2006, 02:17 PM

heh, i'd be scared as fuck to jab an ironman on my way down. i'm pretty sure people are aware of a crossup coming, but there are just too many possibilities to risk a jab. even if they do jab, thats all part of the game plan. if you know they will jab, then that just gives you the advantage on which reset to perform. however, like i said jab or no jab, if you get hit or don't get hit, doom will cover your ass. they jab. you get hit, they get hit by doom, but you recover faster and bam, infinite.

'SupêrioR'-TêCH

12-27-2006, 07:57 AM

what up IM peeps, i got some more matches, they are from NCR this past weekend. Check em out. Give me some tips please if ya can, cuase i could use all the help i can get.

Bronson Tran & Anthoneezy vs KiLLaKeLLy & The Showstopper 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QapFfyLoojg)

Bronson Tran & Anthoneezy vs The Showstopper & KiLLaKeLLy 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVLqckxpMt8)

The Chunksta & Crizzle vs KiLLaKeLLy & The Showstopper 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXwBCcgddSw)

Crizzle & The Chunksta vs KiLLaKeLLy & The Showstopper 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONBnPquzNq8)

Ryan & The Cable Guy vs KiLLaKeLLy & The Showstopper (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwjBmVJQlqs)

Felix vs KiLLaKeLLy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlZe8_mk9mQ)

Woomighty vs KiLLaKeLLy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vq82oI3TT3k)

Randy Lew vs KiLLaKeLLy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bGt7OZfzxE)

KiLLaKeLLy vs pIGadOkeN (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OdgiPGoMH4)

I think your IM is pretty good, except that you rely too much on SJing and getting into an air battle. It seems like that you really like the lk hit confirm, and although it's a pretty good trick, it's nothing too dominating, and nothing to base your offense. You don't really gain momentum and it gets really predictable. I think you need to touch up on more basics, because it seems like you want to SJ any chance you get to setup youself up for that lk attack.

IM is pretty slow so you want to pick your spots when/where you want to attack. You cant just randomly SJ. Try waiting it out for a bit and figure out how your opoonent is trying to attack you. Drop doom and see where he goes. If he uses an AAA and wants to damage Doom, use IM as a 1-on-1 character and fight it out. If he doesnt followup, attack his assist. Basic stuff.

You have doom as an assist, one of IMs best partners, so use him. Plant doom, SJ and try to cross him up while he's pinned down. Use smartbombs to cover doom, or to pin you're enemy down. Dash up and plant doom. Jump over and plant doom. Plant doom and triangle jump. Play a little keepaway and unibeam with Doom. Unibeam is fast and it chips. A fierce unibeam has a lot of chip (i think maybe as much as Sents HSF), it's safe as long as you dont miss, and it doesnt require meter.

SBomb more. Opponents can just wait for you to SJ cross you under with an assist, and there goes your IM. You have no protection for your IM, use a simple SB to cover you. SBs is IMs best special and you should use it like a Cable grenade, a Doom photon, a ST akuma double fireball, a regular jumpkick...it's a GREAT attack. Attack with it, defend with it. It covers space, you can control the direction, pretty quick to come out, and little recovery time.

Those are just some basics, in short just try not to be too predicatble and you should be fine, you know IM combos you just have to be more consistent with them. IM doesnt hit that often, but when you do, you wanna hit HARD. And when you kill a character you gotta kill the next one. U missed alot of guardbreaks. jump HP, sj jab, AD fwd, up+fierce, infinite....that little follow helps alot. If your confident enough in your execution SJ up+fierce, (opponent blocks or gets hit) AD down fwd jab, up+fierce. You can literally up fierce with the opponent comes out, and then there's nothing he can do.

All in all, thanks for the vids. Its always nice to see IM in action. You know more inf setups than the avg IM so you'll make some surprises. It seems like Cable is carrying you around most matches, but that's good. IM is a team player, i notice how you got Counter Switch AHVB always on the back of your mind...and i love that. But remember, if you use more of your basics...instead of just SJing in the air, i think you're going to find youself hitting that counter xx ahvb alot more, while keeping your IM alive. Another thing is you need to work on your matchup skills. Esp SENT! (thats gonna go more in to depth, and i've already written alot, but if you're interested, let me know, and ill post)

You'll be fine, keep up the good work

Mashf3st

12-27-2006, 08:20 AM

Fuck It im gonna play iron man lol

KiLLaKeLLy

12-27-2006, 12:28 PM

I think your IM is pretty good, except that you rely too much on SJing and getting into an air battle. It seems like that you really like the lk hit confirm, and although it's a pretty good trick, it's nothing too dominating, and nothing to base your offense. You don't really gain momentum and it gets really predictable. I think you need to touch up on more basics, because it seems like you want to SJ any chance you get to setup youself up for that lk attack.....

Thanks for the feedback and i couldnt agree with you more on the SJ lk thing. I have been wathing my matches and there are a couple things i have realized i need to stop doing. One is the aforementioned consistantly doing the sj lk, and the other are the consistant ground launchers that miss, i tink if i just did a quick fly/unfly it wouldnt be too much of a problem but still. I have already noticed with some of the more astute players that the lk gets VERY predictable, in my randy match, he knew how i played already so he straight up didnt attack much against IM. I played ryan last week on friday at MGL, he was ready for that too. So, i have been trying to stop, but old habbits die hard, but hearing it from another source helps reinforce my mind into remembering to slow that shit down. I realize too that my offense relies a lot on it and that aint so good,once more people wise up thats done. Again thanks for you insight there, it helps hearing it from another source.

with doom, i know how to plant him, but as you were pretty much saying, i dont use him enough. Against sent i have troubles, so posting up those strats you have if you could. Fly back sent is the worst, to my knowledge there aint a whole lot you can do against it. Also, Against MSP with my team, if you got any input there that would be nice as well if you could post it up. I have a lot of trouble with that team. I have a general gameplan against that team, but its still tough. My blocking is average at best, so i already know i need to block more, but other than that, let me know if you havea anything. with cabe i agree he kind of carries the team, which isnt soooo bad, but should be corrected so he doesnt have to do so much work. Once again, thanks a lot and post up what u got, All info is helpful. peace

'SupêrioR'-TêCH

12-28-2006, 05:09 PM

Thanks for the feedback and i couldnt agree with you more on the SJ lk thing. I have been wathing my matches and there are a couple things i have realized i need to stop doing. One is the aforementioned consistantly doing the sj lk, and the other are the consistant ground launchers that miss, i tink if i just did a quick fly/unfly it wouldnt be too much of a problem but still. I have already noticed with some of the more astute players that the lk gets VERY predictable, in my randy match, he knew how i played already so he straight up didnt attack much against IM. I played ryan last week on friday at MGL, he was ready for that too. So, i have been trying to stop, but old habbits die hard, but hearing it from another source helps reinforce my mind into remembering to slow that shit down. I realize too that my offense relies a lot on it and that aint so good,once more people wise up thats done. Again thanks for you insight there, it helps hearing it from another source.

with doom, i know how to plant him, but as you were pretty much saying, i dont use him enough. Against sent i have troubles, so posting up those strats you have if you could. Fly back sent is the worst, to my knowledge there aint a whole lot you can do against it. Also, Against MSP with my team, if you got any input there that would be nice as well if you could post it up. I have a lot of trouble with that team. I have a general gameplan against that team, but its still tough. My blocking is average at best, so i already know i need to block more, but other than that, let me know if you havea anything. with cabe i agree he kind of carries the team, which isnt soooo bad, but should be corrected so he doesnt have to do so much work. Once again, thanks a lot and post up what u got, All info is helpful. peace

IM against Sent: (edited)
Alot of people think this is IMs worst matchup. I feel pretty comfortable playing Sent (id rather fight him than Storm anyday). "Sent and flyback?" People mention this and I dont know how this really helps him beat IM other than stalling the match. What can Sent do faraway that's completely safe against IM? Short, Roudhouse, frying plan, RP (well lets hope people arent having trouble with this one)? Those attacks are annoying, but there are ways around that. It's not easy, and you're going to find yourself blocking alot but remember...Sent is HUGE, and if you hit him, you can followup to easy inf setups.

You want to be in position to counter attack. You HAVE to know what youre fighting against. It's going to take forever typing it out, but I'm going to generalize the best i can. Know Sent's spacing and speed, know that he's vulnerable around his torso-n-up when he does short. Know that if he whiffs it, jumping Fierce has enough distance to hit him. If hes slow with the short, know that IM's jumping jab is faster coming out. Even SJ jab---its fast, will lead to inf, and if Sent decides to block, GB into inf. (I cant confirm how well this works, but it has worked for me on my better days----but IM roundhouse has ALOT of priority and reach, try launching him). Use Cable as an AAA. Try going under, try GOING OVER. Random Repsular Blast even works (xx to PC, to HVB, and get Cable in). Know his patterns, and if you fail to guess right, keep your composure and block (or if you get hit), guess again. Just remember every attack has a hole, and when you hit, hit HARD.

Know that IMs aerial Fierce - beats frying pans, roundhouses, shorts (everything sent got), just know where to direct it, and cancel the lag with dashbacks of your own.

Know that if he's flying away, and you manage to get under him, you'll have SJ Fierce, jab, and up+roundhouse (which you can all connect to ground inf). If you want to bait him into you...try this - SJ and when he's closing in on you, Kneedive down, land, dash under, and try to catch him flying away. It works well after SJ x AD up, SBs, because Sents have a tendecy to go after you, after a SB. The screen will make Sent drop faster, making him closer to you.

If Sent wants to get laser happy, SJ get your SBs out, and drop from there.

The only really 100% safe thing that Sent can do to you is call out an assist. In that case, hurt it. And if Sent tries to protect him, attack sent. It's such a simple concept, i don't know why IM players never go after sents assist when he calls him. A simple IM launch is fast, and leads to more damage if he doesn't want to protect it. Canel the launch into a SJ, from there, you have the option of going after Sent or going after his assist. And im pretty sure you know how well IM can combo. You can launch, down HP, bring the IM and the assist downwards, jab (to keep the assist in), relaunch, and repeat...if the Sent is still flying backwards. If he wants to protect it, you can launch...get IM in the air, and going after Sent. If you happen to kill his assist, a Sent without an AAA against IM is a sitting duck.

Other than Sent flying back all the time, remember that if you stay on top of him, can really pin him down with doom, and IM's rushdown (because of his air to ground priority). Kneedives, LK crossups, etc...pin his fat ass down. I have some IM combos from kneedives that combo into ground inf, as well as them crossing up which include Dooms AAA. If you want to know, ill send you a link to the thread I made, it's too bad people think it's a hard setup to do; and not worth it during a match.....(IM will be safe, and Sent will be between you and doom ---> it's hell for sent).

Also because of Sents size, he'll take full chip damage from doom and unibeams. Alot of IMs dont use unibeams, but i think you should really check out the CHIP damage a blocked unibeam does. Add that with dooms chipping, and it'll just pressure your opponent to come after you more. Which is what you want, you just have to be ready for it.

If you manage to get Sent into the corner, kneedive+doom x fly x kneedive x fly, etc. pins him down nicely. Kneedives are too fast and keep IM above Sent. Doom will chip, and keep some AAAs in check.

And If you're in trouble, and you've stayed alive long enough to build meter, get cable in there and Sent is toast.

Generally, try to stay in position where you can try to gain MOMENTUM. Stay above, and if you can, try to go under. Keep IM fast and mobile (as in - you dont want him to be a position where you're eating alot of blocked strings)...you want the opposite. Keep crap on the screen, and make it hard for Sent to attack you. Notice in your own matches, when SBs are on the screen...if Sent is in flight mode trying to go under them, he's actually coming closer to you....making him vulnerable to IM in the air. If he gets hit by SBs..use that time to close in on him. If you keep his options limited, you'll know where/when to attack him. Chip him, rush him, and build meter. If you manage to build meter and keep IM alive, AND Sent still has more health than you, your IM did it's job. Even if your IM is winning...if you enough meter to get Cable in with assist counter xx AHVB, burn it. You want seize every opportunity you get and keeping IM alive is HUGE asset. Cable w/ meter+IM AAA+doom = a pretty dead Sent. (and that's another thing i noticed in your matches...I dont see a lot of IM AAA assist with your Cable, IM AAA has a huge zone, which will allow Cable alot of time to move/attack freely). You'll also have a backup character just in case Cable or Doom dies. And im pretty sure you know how useful Dooms' Supers xx PC is.

I know it's alot of info, but I hope it helped. There's just too much to think/too much to type, and matches are so-situational dependent, it gets hard to believe IM matches up against sent pretty well...but imo...he really does. Of course, if Sent has Cyke/Capcom/ or if you're fighting Sent/Storm/Cable...you'll have to understand some of the things I mentioned, won't work as well as some as the others. But like i said....know your options, know your matchups, and know your IM (basics of the game - meter, assists, opponents life; combos, ALL attacks - specials/normals, blocked strings, chipping, mobilty - fly, unfly MODE, kneedives, airdashes, speed, range, and priority....EVERYTHING is useful, and IM got it...you just gotta know when to use it)

against MSP...ill write more another time. But yes, that matchup is tough as well.

KiLLaKeLLy

12-29-2006, 12:39 PM

IM against Sent: (edited)
Alot of people think this is IMs worst matchup.....

Thanks for the 411, a lot of good info in there, i you could provide the link to that thread with the knee dive combo that would be great, ill do a search, but it would be nice to have a direct link in here. Most of the time I let my IM die, which isnt a good thing, i tend to run him till he is dead, I have been trying to remember to keep him alive, and thats what i did in some of those vids i posted up, but usually he just goes and i move on to cable/doom. But yeah, IM AAA is good and covers a lot of area, i will try and remember more to keep him alive. I usually play against sents that fly back so this is gonna be some helpful stuff for me. Chunk is usually the only guy not flying back for long periods of time and calling commando. That guy rushes me with the fury. Anyway, will be looking forward to hearing insight on MSP cause that shit tears me up, oh and if you have any strats against team scrub, that would be helpful too. That matchup for me is usually 30/70. Cable gives my IM the most problems and thats generally cuase i get a little too anxious to get in on him and get hit by just about everything. Cableguy usually plays that on me or storm/cable/sent, i dont mind SCB as much as scrub though. Thanks again. keep that good info commin.

'SupêrioR'-TêCH

12-29-2006, 03:33 PM

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=48627

theres the link to the combo. i actually made a combo video of it, but it's not hosted on the web. if u wanna take a peek, get me on aim, and ill transfer. the vid also got this unblockable sweep combo with doom+IM AAA, it's pretty funny/useful.

Upon re-reading i just thought of a pretty useful combo u can use in flight mode against a standing Sent. Useful because if ur pinning down Sent, u want to hit him with everything u got. u also cancel the lag of some attacks using flight mode, so u'll know how this works. and u can avoid HSF using flight mode going up. try this combo for me please, because i dont have the game to practice.

first some info:
aerial up+roundhouse has very little lag, u can even "reset the magic series" after. ex) launch, up+roundhouse, (pause), sj jab (and it will combo)

so try (against a standing sent, w/ IM relatively low to the ground in FLY mode)
dash short, medium, up+roundhouse (Sent lifts off the ground), *pause*, jab, short, up+fierce, unfly, (land...*Sent should still be in the air*), then try an inf setup.

it might not work due to Sents' weight (he falls fast), in that case...play around with the combo/concept.

also, try it on other characters please...thanks

KiLLaKeLLy

12-30-2006, 02:07 AM

ok ill give it a shot, yeah i know about the flying over hsf. what i like to do is when commin in when sent trys to UB, i do knee divexxfly, fly to sent and hit RH+doomxxunfly land and go into inf. works nicely.

'SupêrioR'-TêCH

12-30-2006, 09:59 PM

I'm sure alot of people thought IM beats MSP because he fights decently against Mags....but i like you have a tough time against it. I actually switch to IM/Sent/Cyc for this one, but i'll try my best to help u out.

MSP is going to be tough because Mags has psy, limiting your air-to-ground game, and IM is slow ground-to-ground so Mags will have an easy time getting in close. He also has Storm as his backup, and a metered Storm w/ the lead, beats IM. What you wanna do, of course, is make it as hard as possible for Mag to get in...and as easy it is for you, to know where he's going, so can attack him, and hopefully get him into inf. Dont bother chipping Mags too much with IM, unless you're 100% sure you wont get punished, because Mags is too fast for your unibeam. He can even Erm disruptor u before ur beam comes out. If you need to chip, use Doom.

Take it to the air. Mags cant hurt you much at the top of the screen. SJ, AIRDASH UP, SB, and drop with your bombs. Mags cant really punish, and he'll have a hard time crossing you up w/ Psy because of the bombs. From there, it'll give u an opportunity to see where he's going to attack you from, or give you the option of adding more shit on the screen....u can then....

1) You can call doom, and repeat the SB sequence, to add some chip. Doom will be vulnerable, but so will mag if he tries to attack him. Just watch out for Psy. It's going to be a "chance" attacking him, but theres not much IM can do safely. Hopefully, your SBs will cover you, or cover space for Doom, allowing enough time for the rocks to come out.

If he calls Storm, hopefully the SBs will hit her, giving you enough time to drop on him without the fear of Psy.

If he tries to avoid Doom and go after you with a SJ, Kneedive down and use a mixup game while he's trying to land (in fact, this is what you want. it's the safest way of getting in on him. try to force him into the air and attack him when he can't use psy). Or attack him in the air where u can use ur fierces, shorts, and jabs.

2) Dash back, and throw a ground missle+doom. If u get a missle out, it'll force Mag to attack you from the air...or block the missle while getting some chip. If he "regular jump" x airdashes fwds, Cancel into Flight and use the range of an aerial fierce...it'll beat out any normal he tries. He can still use Psy but he would have to call her further away, before he gets hit. If u anticipate Psy, unfly and attack him without her. If you anticipate wrong, unfly, and take it back to the skies, and try again. If he calls storm before the airdash he's going to be verrry vulnerable, unfly, and mixup

if he "SJ x ad fwd", he wont even be able to use psy. unfly and attack/mix him up before he lands.

If he SJs to avoid everything, mix him up again as he's coming down.

3) While in the air, u can also knee x ad, call Doom. It helps because Mag cant call an assist during SJ...giving u the edge of having an assist w/out the fear of counter assist Psy. Having Doom out will give u time/options, which is what you need to stay alive in this match. Watch out because U cannot block coming down, in that case, try dropping towards Dooms rocks to cover u. Use flymode to drop down faster.

----These are just somethings you can do with IM that i wanted to point out directly against MSP. Alot of things i said about Sent ("know your IM and matchups") applies the same to this. I just pointed these scenarios out because u should really try to limit Mags coming towards you with Psy, and u need to find ways to attack Mags safely ground level, and setup ur own offense. If you find urself in a bad sistuation (getting crossed up) or if mags is just rushing your ass down, there's not much IM can do if he's in your face. IM is too slow to do anything safe ground lvl. Standing fierce is defensive but slow, jabs and shorts - mags' cr short is too fast, IM's launcher can avoid lows; but it has really short horizontal distance...use it at ur own risk. Keep unfly mode to cancel ur slower attacks safely so u can block. But dont try to block too much or you'll find yourself getting mixed up. Instead, move, run, hide behind doom and let him absorb the damage...just dont let him gain momentum. Cable's AAA can help somewhat. It can help stop Mags dashing in with cr shorts, it can help against his quicker triangle jumps, it can help somewhat - if he tries to jump x ad w/ an assist (that trick is a pain). If he triangle jumps high, use that opportunity to sneak in a launch, or mixup up by dashing under.

Just remember if u can consistently keep crap on the screen, u'll make it harder for Mags, and u'll know when/where to attack. In short, take it to the skies w/ SBs to stay safe from mags/psy. play really safe ground lvl, and force him to jump. Do your damage by assists, long range, and defensive mixups. Anticipate.

A bigger problem in that team is Storm. She can really limit ur ground options, and she can limit you in the air because of Hailstorm. With IM, u cant really setup an offense, u just to fight her head on. Make her burn meter by using her hailstorms. If she has no meter, use that opportunity to pin her down with SBs and doom. If she tries to run/fly away, use IMs fierce range to slow her down. Use Cable AAA to slow her down in the air as well.

If your IM built 5 meters, and u see Mags/Storm SJing away, u may want to tag in Cable. Cable with IM AAA can really help against rushdown because of the zone. Like i said, u can really maneuver with Cable once IM is called out. Use that time wisely. The only sure way to stop IM AAA is if u hit him before he comes out (sometimes they'll get lucky with a trijump, but most times they'll eat the AAA). Use Rocks too, because a 1 random rock can lead to a dead character. Dont be afraid to burn meter to keep momentum.

Demon Dash

01-05-2007, 07:19 AM

^And like every match in this game, watch for the double snap back...

tech master

01-06-2007, 05:08 AM

i actually like IM vs. MSP. if you have a good assist like drones/rocks/good projectile IM can actually zone pretty decent. just keep SJing to smart bombs+assist. theres not too much mags can do in the air besides DHC to storm. just make sure you stay at a height thats impossible/difficult for mags to ROM you with and attack when they make mistakes. its funny, this is one of the actual match ups where i can damn near zone the entire time (still wouldnt recommend it), you'll get caught with a couple DHC's to hailstorm but tell you the truth i'd rather have them burn that meter on such little damage. just play it safe, who cares if they get you with a couple combos. all you need is one touch for a sure kill.

BucketHead

01-06-2007, 01:25 PM

tech master

01-06-2007, 02:51 PM

lol no offense, but you just told him to stop listening to people telling him how to play the game, and then you tell him how to play the game?

'SupêrioR'-TêCH

01-06-2007, 03:21 PM

[QUOTE='SupêrioR'-TêCH;3520357]I think your IM is pretty good, except that you rely too much on SJing and getting into an air battle. It seems like that you really like the lk hit confirm, and although it's a pretty good trick, it's nothing too dominating, and nothing to base your offense. You don't really gain momentum and it gets really predictable. I think you need to touch up on more basics, because it seems like you want to SJ any chance you get to setup youself up for that lk attack.

IM is pretty slow so you want to pick your spots when/where you want to attack. You cant just randomly SJ. Try waiting it out for a bit and figure out how your opoonent is trying to attack you. Drop doom and see where he goes. If he uses an AAA and wants to damage Doom, use IM as a 1-on-1 character and . FIGHT IT OUT. If he doesnt followup, attack his assist. Basic stuff.

/QUOTE]

Yeah........... Too bad IronMan sucks! I watched some of those matches and KK was doing absolutely everything right with IronMan. I spam sj lk because it's too good and it beats out just about every move except like storms sj lk and thats only if she attacks at the right angle. Now I want to see you play rushdown IM and lets see how well you can FIGHT IT OUT while sent is beaming smacking the fuck out of you. My advise to KK is to disregard a lot of the information here especailly ppl trying to tell you how to play game, it may look and sound good but most of it is just a bunch of blah blah theory shit and from what I saw you were winning with your tactical sjing and such, so just play your game and only trust information that comes from a creditable source.

The only thing I have to say to you KK is that you need to finish your combos especially air combos down to normal jump infinite those chances are rare and it is important to make your opponent fear air to air combat against IM and that is a devsatating way to do so but for the most part you need to stop relying on Doom assist so much, I saw you hit someone with lk,lp and then you launched them, My advise to you is to go for the crouch cancle setup instead of the other one, I know the other one does more damage but who cares, IM infinite into PC does 90% percent anyways thats why you do your damage and wait for your opponent to make the mistake. Tell me why don't most of the guys who play that team use cable assist in stead of Doom, you can do lk,lp+cable into infinite=dead, so easy. Seriously I'd say drop Doom and pickup Sent. Nothing personal, but I think that most of the ppl who play IM with Doom assist aren't really that good with IM, don't get me wrong, most of the guys are good with their team but when Doom is gone they look lost with IM.

heheh, funny guy here. Discredit info just because he hasnt seen anyone use it? No wonder why you give up on certain characters. And KK ASKED advice from everyone here...doesnt matter who it's from. He seemed pleased to what he read, and i'm pretty sure it's because he UNDERSTOOD it, unlike closed-minded players like you. No biggy though, u can stick with your "tactical SJing" and spam lks, and get smacked around by frying pans and shorts...while getting beamed up by Sent....doesn't matter to me, i dont really care who you are. But i'm here to DISCUSS IM with players that want to discuss IM.

I'm very confident with my IM, and to my credit...i have done very well against certain big name players. I am not a weekly tourney player, but i know some pretty good ones - all who have played me/seen me play, and credited my IM....surprised at what they didn't know IM can do. Dont like to name names to credit myself...but if u think i'm not forreal KK (or anyone else thinkin my strats r jus theory bs), ill let you know.

And if you think any IM that plays w/ Doom isn't that good, and will totally lose the match after he's dead...i'm here in NJ/NY/Philly area. I'd like for you to show me what kind of IM is good, assuming that you think your's is.

BucketHead

01-07-2007, 01:29 PM

I'll say this, It's good to spout off tactics and match ups that you have experienced but it's another thing to attempt to categorize teams, for example think of MSP, some people might have alot of experience against this team and have the ability to do well vs this team, but don't think for a second that you can sum up how to beat a team in acouple of paragraphs, true there are Universal tactics that are used to deafeat teams like these but the fact of the matter is that there are so many MSP players and so many different teams and I dought that they all play the same which means, not only are you playing against the team you also have to figure out how your opp plays the team. It doesn't matter if you play against Yipes or Justin everyday or anyone really good with a certain team.
What happens when you play a random MSP player who beasts you because your not use to the way he plays or you say thats not the way your suppose to play that team. Just because you beat your lil brother or your homeboys who play a certain way doesn't mean you have it all figured out. So if your going to give out strats let it be known that the information comes from within your own jurisdiction meaning the competition that you play daily or play styles you have experienced and don't just go off saying things like, this is how you beat team . Just say this is what the ppl I play against do and this is what I do to fight it. To me personally Marvel is game where standarized tactics only aplly to a certain degree. Thats why I don't believe in page long strategy guides on how to fight teams, to me it seems like it's setting ppl up for failure. I don't give advice on things like that because the information is too broad, I say let ppl obtain there own original way of playing and give them more useful information like combos, gaurd breaks, gaurd cancles...etc Because the other stuff is like teaching a grown man how to walk and thats not my job and thats just how marvel is, the more you play and the experience you get then you will be able to determine what you can and can't do against certain chars. You should be able to determine what your success/failure ratio is against certain teams. It's pretty basic, Darwins theory, Survival of the fittest applies in marvel also. Either you get better or you get worst there is no inbetween when it comes to marvel it's up to you to decide.

'SupêrioR'-TêCH

01-07-2007, 09:01 PM

It sux that u feel that way, but this is a forum. People are here to learn and to teach. And yes, you can teach someone how to beat a team. It's why people record matches, it's why people discuss here on boards, it's why there are top tiers, it's why people learn matchups, it's why people learn and get better, and it's why people play the game. Sure, it's not 100% foolprood...but no1 plays a perfect game everytime.

Of course everyone plays a different style, but there are certain styles that aren't effective as others, and there are styles that can make a character better. It's like using Storm for only building meter and Hailstorming...sure u can do it for a good part of the match, but if u dont know how to effectively rushdown, and bait...that Hailstorm wont become as much of threat, as if u were able to rushdown effectively. There is momentum is this game, and there are ways to pressure your opponent, to know anticipate what he's going to do next...and of course there are ways to capitalize on it. Sure IM got air combos that lead to ground inf from sj lk...but how's he going to protect himself coming down. Doesnt matter what your playstyle is, if your opponent knows he's coming down...and he has an effective attack against it, your going to have to block or get hit. Certain characters DO have strengths and weaknesses.

If you read and understood what i wrote above, you'd also know that i stressed alot of things are situational dependent, and that some things aren't going to work well as others. I am just merely pointing out what IM can do to counter certain offenses, and different scenarios. And if you dont think theres NO 2 people that use a same/similar certain tactic...then how do explain people using popular teams like Santhrax, and MSP??? If you got any other ways to explain how IM can handle certain matches, i'm pretty sure we're all for it. But i'm also pretty sure no1 wants to hear you're whining about how people shouldnt be giving advice, how IM sux, you being able to determine success/failure ratios, or Darwin's theory.

Green

01-08-2007, 02:35 AM

BucketHead, aren't you the guy who said he had the best IM a while back?

J360

01-08-2007, 06:40 AM

like i said before im an east coast iron man and ill i fucking play all day is rediculous sentinels and there are alot of things you can do against a sent whos just flying back you just need patience depending on the match up your playing. the one thing you have to make sure to do against sent is once you land a hit in the air regardless of unfly or not cause flying screen or bring him down to the ground and keep him grounded there are many pressure strings IM has if you attack and counter call with smarts. ima put up videos soon when i get someone to put em up of this matchup its hard but iron mans too godly.

'SupêrioR'-TêCH

01-08-2007, 01:50 PM

U play at CTF? im mite be goin there this weekend. i wanna see how u play IM.

BucketHead

01-08-2007, 02:13 PM

BucketHead, aren't you the guy who said he had the best IM a while back?

I've never said I was the best, only thing I said that alot of ppl don't know about IM but I guess thats why these forums are here to teach and what not. It seems that ppl take things a little too serious on srk. But it's cool. fun fun fun!

J360

01-08-2007, 05:21 PM

U play at CTF? im mite be goin there this weekend. i wanna see how u play IM.

yup just pm me when you goin and youll see me there everyone knows me as 360 or just josh.

phat_toi

01-08-2007, 10:26 PM

No Lie i would <3 to have some mad IM matches with yall haha. Shit would be sick!!

But the posts tho you dukes have some good ass IM strats and Combos. Keep it up

J360

01-09-2007, 06:28 AM

No Lie i would <3 to have some mad IM matches with yall haha. Shit would be sick!!

But the posts tho you dukes have some good ass IM strats and Combos. Keep it up

yipes and smoothviper are always tellin me about how your IM is on the next level. been wanting to see it in action for a while.

Geronimo

01-30-2007, 11:15 AM

Yeah...so I got a little bored and decided to post some vids of OG Japan. Enjoy!

Nun (1P) vs. White (2P) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ThR4fByBYY)

Liquid Metal (1P) vs. Nun (2P) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIOQGF_Ekhk)

Liquid Metal (1P) vs. White (2P) (1 of 2) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_rUGm3C_iE)

Liquid Metal (1P) vs. White (2P) (2 of 2) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGR6ynp8Kng)

Liquid Metal (1P) vs. Nun (2P) (1 of 2) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLX7AVIeHXE)

Liquid Metal (1P) vs. Nun (2P) (2 of 2) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3DeXBtvIjA)

ID (1P) vs. Sunahebi (2P) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4TLpWRYLAE)

Fantom (1P) vs. Mitsu (2P) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THlKLnlPv3k)

Liquid Metal (1P) vs. Mitsu (2P) (1 of 2) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYGEFPTPYik)

Liquid Metal (1P) vs. Mitsu (2P) (2 of 2) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvsMfo5yQgU)

The first 4 are the matches that SRK hosted back in 2001-2002...which showcased the SJC set-up off of c.mp for the first time (for some reason, I wanna say there were more of'em...but I can't remember). The rest are from later in 2001-2002.

More vids to come...as well as an updated version of my guide...and my opinion on character/team match-ups.

Hope that helps.

- Geronimo

EDIT: Added 3 Mitsu matches.

'SupêrioR'-TêCH

02-08-2007, 08:17 PM

a short combo movie i made, mostly INF setups with assists. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jz-fgMlTmGA

tech master

03-06-2007, 01:30 PM

nice, i'm trying to make an IM vid with shit nobodies seen. hopefully i'll have it done soon

KiLLaKeLLy

03-06-2007, 04:43 PM

tech, are you going to the fairfield tourney this sunday???i am going to try and make it. So, i was curious if you would be there as well, maybe we can get some games in. peace

tech master

03-06-2007, 05:26 PM

yea i'll probably make it out to this one. i don't know about entering cuz i hate tilts sticks. even though this is my home arcade, i play like a retard anytime im on those damn sticks.

KiLLaKeLLy

03-06-2007, 08:05 PM

yeah, they arent the best at times, i tend to play more shitty overthere as well, but eh, what you gonna do??? Hope to see you there if i can make it.

sealhunta

03-07-2007, 04:45 PM

do any of use the sjc'ing setups for the infinite.

i.e. c.lk, c.mp SJC sj.lp sj.hp land infinite

i find it way to hard, either the sjc doesnt happen or it does to late

tech master

03-07-2007, 05:25 PM

dood its easy

c.lk, c.mp xx sj, sj.lp, adf, s.lp, sj.U+HP \/ infinite.

if you don't mind reseting, you can sj.lk addf (x) U+HP

Green

03-07-2007, 06:00 PM

I only use that setup for IM. Once you get the timing for the sjxx (and also get over the foreign execution), it's really easy.

KiLLaKeLLy

03-07-2007, 10:03 PM

do any of use the sjc'ing setups for the infinite.

i.e. c.lk, c.mp SJC sj.lp sj.hp land infinite

i find it way to hard, either the sjc doesnt happen or it does to late

you have that a little wrong, but tech corrected it. Neway, i used to do that one exclusivly, but in the quest for more damage, i went other routes. still do it on occassion though, just to keep it real. Like the others said though, its easy, u just have to get used to cancelling that sj. It took me a while to actually get that down. They way it got through to me to think how to do it was, to try it like i was doing the magneto ROM infinite. After i took that mindset, bam i got that shit quick. looking at it now, u might want to let the stick go into neutral for like a quick second and then hit down up after the c.mp Thats how i get it going now, that i actually know whats going on. It is best to learn it and all the other setups too, you never know what a given situation will call for. Its always best to be prepared for anything. Peace

50mOrEcEnTz

03-13-2007, 06:28 PM

im bout to pick up marvel again and i think i might pick the iron guy back up after retiring that played biatch....i always favored the im/sent/cap team like 360 said due to its versatility...

i feel that team gives him the best shot at winning real matches against real god tiers...i actually play with drones too btw...

one fast fly from IM is good enough to chunk over half a life...and thats if you dont hit them with the little predictable up+rh air combo reset...if they dont block that one time you get ur fast fly...then they are in need of getting their chara out of the game atm unless its sent. and lord knows you BETTER NOT tag in and miss against IM or gg

also, people love calling their assists out on IM because like 90% of IM teams...he has a hard time really hurting assists....not with the team mentioned...just a simple rh+cap, sj.whip ad/b will make them think twice about just mashing the assist button when they get nervous. wut makes that hard to do imo tho is smartbombs...most people feel like they can take advantage of u cuz you threw some sb's. so they try to hurt you via call their assist out...and that is where capcom comes in handy.

i believe this team might be the IM team that you can fight high lvl with against high lvl competition. i feel like with this team magneto gets completely hosed due to all his normals losing and having to deal with drones+IM's normals or capcom blast. sentinel runs the risk of being out ff'ed or infinited to friggin death or near it. the last two...cable and storm are some friggin problems but once i get my stick, i'll b able to post some strats against them...360, tell me how u rock d