Advanced A2 Discussion

[BKB]

Blowout happens when you're close enough, and the opponent is NOT blocking.

Think of it like an attack... If you activate from sweep range and the opponent is sticking out a low forward, chances are that you'll run into the low forward and get hit right after activation. However, if you activate right next to the opponent while they have a low forward out, you will "hit" the forward with your activation, causing blowout, leaving them vulnerable to attack.

[Middlekick]

^ this is accurate. the only exception to this rule is evil ryu, who has infinite range on his cc blowout.

[epsilon_]

thanks for the input on how to use the CC. I'm starting to see it work more and more and some of my opponents are actually scared to wiff moves which is what I want. I should just CC, sweep, tatsu, dp x amount of times right after a wiff?

say they wiff a c.lk and I see it, will CC, sweep hit them before they recover? should I always open my cc's with c.lk, c.rh to ensure that I get the fastest possible move vs wiffed moves?

what should you do if you fuck up a kens cc? I know about the overhead into a short CC and it works on people who don't know how to get out of it but it seems like if you fuck it up and they block it, your screwed but I just want conformation.

could you explain this "blowout" a little more like exactly @ what range is it unblockable and is the range the same for all characters? basically what middle kick said, but you always want to start a shoto custom with c.rh. Because of the "freeze" it hits instantly, they wont have time to transition to block regardless if it was in a valle cc situation anyway. Not to mention the initial range provided by c.rh. If you fuck up your cc somehow, or it gets blocked, the smartest thing to do is jab fireballs, but you at the very least will get an AC for your trouble most of the time.

[shoultzula]

thnx for all the help, i've already improved exponentially. That damn CC is rediculous behind proper footsie.

[shoultzula]

need an opinion on this strategy.

I've been working this trap strategy with ryu where i'll dump 1 meter everytime I get it to throw fireballs repeatidly over and over. If I get a set and they're forced to block, I get 3 lk tatsu's which give me back half meter. With a little footsie, i'll have 1 bar in no time and pick another spot to dump it @. I think you get like 5-7 fireballs per bar.

If they want to jump out, I just dp that ass and go back to building bar till I get to dump it again.

my main goal is just to abuse the chip and force them to jump which will happen. When you properly pick your spot, you can't be AC'ed to my knowledge. I don't see how they can AC you when your 1\2 screen with multiple fireballs in the way but I don't really know this game that well.

I realize that using his cc properly is the real way to do it but i'm just fucking around with the game a little.

[Cardinal_Sin]

fireball trap

disclaimer: i may or may not know what i'm talking about, still pretty new to game, but here are my two cents

I've been trying to do traps similar to what you mention, and I really like using shinkuu when I get a chance because it forces the opponent to have to react in an unfavorable manner no matter what if you're smart about it (like you said, either they eat the chip and you follow behind it for more footsies, or you DP / stand MP xx fireball to continue the pressure if they're in the corner and shinkuu has disappeared).

If they start air blocking to delay the trap or mess up the timing you can simply walk in for free and continue with a sweep or high normal if they're still in the air.

However, I've found that a lot of fireball-based traps in the corner can be recovery rolled out of so if you're fighting a smart opponent you have to make sure to plant a few short footsies every now and then to stuff their roll, but not commit to anything too tightly, because:

if they LP roll in place (for example, after being DP'ed out of the air) and you whiff an RH then they can gain ground on you again, and if you commit to walking forward to meaty sweeping them as they hit the ground you may hit them or not depending on if they rolled, but you lose some of the space you had to maintain the trap by closing the gap in this manner.

Of course the worst scenario is if you try to follow up with another meaty FB / shinkuu and they fierce roll and get up in your grill, so what i generally do is throw out a few low shorts as it's the safest option of the ones mentioned above, provided you throw a delayed fireball afterwards and try to maintain the guessing game in your favor when both are you are at neutral advantage.

edit: it's a useful tidbit to know what can and can't be recrolled in this situation. Shinkuu is a super so getting a knockdown with it is risk-free for you (supers and throws i think can't be recrolled?). However, dp's, fb's and sweeps can be recrolled (although in my experience it's hella hard to rr a sweep). Someone who recrolls an FB (fierce knockdown one) or a sweep can really make your life painful if you've given up enough ground in the trap to begin with.

[epsilon_]

Here's a really good trick in the corner with Ryu, it's so good, its almost not really a trick.

When you have them knocked down in the corner either do empty jump, c.lk x2, xx hp fireball, or really late j.lk, c.lk x2, fp fireball. It is very difficult to block correctly, and if they get smart and try to dp or recovery roll, you can either punish the recovery roll instantly, or empty jump and block their dp. When you add throw into this mixup, it gets scary.

With Ryu the main way you want to use fireballs are as pokes. Fp fireball comes out extremely quickly, and knocks down up close. You want to attempt to stand outside their max attack range, and use your fireball to shut down any mid range offense they try to establish. This is pretty difficult, and requires strong "street fighter" skils, but it is very difficult to deal with also in combination with his custom combo.

[Atobe]

need an opinion on this strategy.

I've been working this trap strategy with ryu where i'll dump 1 meter everytime I get it to throw fireballs repeatidly over and over. If I get a set and they're forced to block, I get 3 lk tatsu's which give me back half meter. With a little footsie, i'll have 1 bar in no time and pick another spot to dump it @. I think you get like 5-7 fireballs per bar.

If they want to jump out, I just dp that ass and go back to building bar till I get to dump it again.

my main goal is just to abuse the chip and force them to jump which will happen. When you properly pick your spot, you can't be AC'ed to my knowledge. I don't see how they can AC you when your 1\2 screen with multiple fireballs in the way but I don't really know this game that well.

I realize that using his cc properly is the real way to do it but i'm just fucking around with the game a little.

All decent players have a way of getting close without jumping into a dp. Just make sure you can handle the pressure of close combat. There also might be only 1 specific spot where your strat will work. So you will need to figure a tactic to get you into position to setup your trap.

Just a precaution, I've had people (actually just 1 person) cc through my fireball and start beating down my life bar like crazy. Be aware when you throw fireballs this could happen to you.

[shoultzula]

All decent players have a way of getting close without jumping into a dp. Just make sure you can handle the pressure of close combat. There also might be only 1 specific spot where your strat will work. So you will need to figure a tactic to get you into position to setup your trap.

Just a precaution, I've had people (actually just 1 person) cc through my fireball and start beating down my life bar like crazy. Be aware when you throw fireballs this could happen to you.

1 fireball is ok to take but when you start taking 6-10 firebalss roughly every 10 seconds w\ safe dp options inbetween, it becomes a problem. . I control the ground entirely with that many fireballs that you're inclined to jump unless your character has some type of move that gets over fireablls. Adons jaguar kick, birdies super, guy's flip throw etc... and in these cases, i'm still allowed to throw 1 and wait to react, do nothing and a few more are guaranteed. CC speed is pretty fast that I can do, fireball, DP, fireball, fireball just in case you want to try something. Also, the triple tatsu thats guaranteed when you layer fireballs right give you like 45% of 1 bar back which is amazing. I only got to play footsie till I get 55% bar and I go right back into annoying you again.

you can't cc through that many fireballs. If I remember correctly, the CC activation invincible window is really small. Its possible to go through a fireball but not 5. The invincible window won't last that long.

I have yet to play against someone who wouldn't jump this strategy. The only real problem is throwing that many fireballs will eventually get you fucked but if work the line between good shoto footsie, CC's for wiff punish and the CC fireball chip, it becomes really annoying.

however this is just 1 strategy. I don't claim this is how ryu should be played but just a little gimmick he can use as a strat.

[Atobe]

Here's a really good trick in the corner with Ryu, it's so good, its almost not really a trick.

When you have them knocked down in the corner either do empty jump, c.lk x2, xx hp fireball, or really late j.lk, c.lk x2, fp fireball. It is very difficult to block correctly, and if they get smart and try to dp or recovery roll, you can either punish the recovery roll instantly, or empty jump and block their dp. When you add throw into this mixup, it gets scary.

I think jumping into people is suicide most of the time. Especially if you are fighting a shoto. However this is offset by a player's mind. If you can mess with their mind long enough to get them to scared to mount a counter, anything is possible.

The best corner game is a mix of throw/overhead/crouching pokes. Start with the poking a couple of times (1-2). This gets them to think all you do is poke. Then you switch it up the next time you have the chance. Start with a crouch near them, but use your overhead instead. Then maybe next time go back to pokes. Then the fun part is when you do this enough times they are to scared to do anything. When this happens I just run up to them and just throw (high risk, but satisfying).

Then again I do this as Chun Li, so I have hax speed. But the main point I want to make is don't jump into people unless you calculate it to be safe.

[Atobe]

1 fireball is ok to take but when you start taking 6-10 firebalss roughly every 10 seconds w\ safe dp options inbetween, it becomes a problem. . I control the ground entirely with that many fireballs that you're inclined to jump unless your character has some type of move that gets over fireablls. Adons jaguar kick, birdies super, guy's flip throw etc... and in these cases, i'm still allowed to throw 1 and wait to react, do nothing and a few more are guaranteed. CC speed is pretty fast that I can do, fireball, DP, fireball, fireball just in case you want to try something. Also, the triple tatsu thats guaranteed when you layer fireballs right give you like 45% of 1 bar back which is amazing. I only got to play footsie till I get 55% bar and I go right back into annoying you again.

you can't cc through that many fireballs. If I remember correctly, the CC activation invincible window is really small. Its possible to go through a fireball but not 5. The invincible window won't last that long.

I have yet to play against someone who wouldn't jump this strategy. The only real problem is throwing that many fireballs will eventually get you fucked but if work the line between good shoto footsie, CC's for wiff punish and the CC fireball chip, it becomes really annoying.

however this is just 1 strategy. I don't claim this is how ryu should be played but just a little gimmick he can use as a strat.

I have no experience with your strat, so I believe you are the developing expert in it. I am only questioning what happens when the opponent plays a more aggressive style, and fight you on your ground control. I have no idea what it is like playing against it, so when do you do your fireball ground control, where are the characters positioned? Let's say you face Evil Ryu or Akuma, they see you throw 5-6 fireballs, and think to teleport behind you if the positioning is bad.

I am not trying to put you down, as doing new things is always interesting to see. Just wondering how the situation will arise where you use this strat, and what happens if this x situation happens. Maybe I am just indirectly trying to figure out how to counter you if we should have a match =)

[shoultzula]

I have no experience with your strat, so I believe you are the developing expert in it. I am only questioning what happens when the opponent plays a more aggressive style, and fight you on your ground control. I have no idea what it is like playing against it, so when do you do your fireball ground control, where are the characters positioned? Let's say you face Evil Ryu or Akuma, they see you throw 5-6 fireballs, and think to teleport behind you if the positioning is bad.

I am not trying to put you down, as doing new things is always interesting to see. Just wondering how the situation will arise where you use this strat, and what happens if this x situation happens. Maybe I am just indirectly trying to figure out how to counter you if we should have a match =)

I know shoto footsies so my ground game is pretty good. I try not to jump and mainly stay on the ground. I'm comfortable not doing the gimmick and playing street fighter.

since its only 1 bar, I don't care if those characters would teleport behind me. I'll try to set it up as best as I can like after a dp hit, sweep ch, throw in the corner. My goal with this strat is just to force you to do something to get away from what i'm doing. Thats all I care about. As long as your not doing what you want, you have to play w\ what i'm doing and that can only force errors on the opponents part. Depending on how I set it up too, decided your input speed on the teleport unless it has a 0 frame startup. If you fuck up the timing, you just ate multiple fireballs which will do decent damage. Right back into shoto zoning until I get another bar to dump.

I'm still safe if those characters decide to teleport, I can just throw a 2 fireballs wait for the teleport then CC walk away from you till its over or bait your teleport somehow. I don't care if I fuck it up because i'll have anothe bar eventually and I'll try to make it counter more than the last one. Remember this is just a 1 bar CC gimmick. I'm sure this has easy counters but what ever you counter me with, im going to be able to counter it back some how. The gimmick is kinda flexible in this case I suppose.

too actually pull this off and make it looks like its worth a damn, which it probably isn't, is going to take a developed footsie game and being able to readjust to your opponent so you can properly set him up for some chip and or damage.

and we've pleyed before.

[epsilon_]

I think jumping into people is suicide most of the time. Especially if you are fighting a shoto. However this is offset by a player's mind. If you can mess with their mind long enough to get them to scared to mount a counter, anything is possible.

The best corner game is a mix of throw/overhead/crouching pokes. Start with the poking a couple of times (1-2). This gets them to think all you do is poke. Then you switch it up the next time you have the chance. Start with a crouch near them, but use your overhead instead. Then maybe next time go back to pokes. Then the fun part is when you do this enough times they are to scared to do anything. When this happens I just run up to them and just throw (high risk, but satisfying).

Then again I do this as Chun Li, so I have hax speed. But the main point I want to make is don't jump into people unless you calculate it to be safe.

it is safe... you do it after a corner knock down, i dont think you understood what i was saying. also, ryus overhead sucks, if they got hit by that they must be asleep. in other news, dont listen to atobe, he is a noob.

[Atobe]

it is safe... you do it after a corner knock down, i dont think you understood what i was saying. also, ryus overhead sucks, if they got hit by that they must be asleep. in other news, dont listen to atobe, he is a noob.

Do you play ggpo? I would like to test your theory.

[Atobe]

@shoultzula

Thank you for explaining it to me. If you want I am willing to help by doing situations that come up in your mind. But don't be surprised if I try to incorporate your strat =)

[epsilon_]

yeah i do, but im on vacation right now, when i get back we can play.

[EmericaRR]

Hey just started playing this game when GGPO came out. Having a lot of fun with it and it is easily shaping up to be one of my favorite SF games. My only question is why did the game die out? Is there something game breaking or some lameness like crouch cancels in A3 or did it just get old and stale and everybody jumped on A3 when that was released. Sorry if this question has already been asked. Thanks in advance.

[epsilon_]

alpha 3 came out, basically.

[Ouroborus]

Anyone have any anti-Rose strats for Gief? The bitch is killin me

j.d+mk beats everything she does except alpha counter (which gets owned by empty jump in spd)

lariats vs fireball

punch alpha counter against her soul spiral chip during her soul illusion mode

j.d+mk is too good. it beats everything outside of invincible anti airs. it ticks perfectly into spd, and if you think they're going to hit you out of it, cc activation into paint the fence for 75% life.

[shoultzula]

whats up with chun dominating ken when she plays right? I thought I had this fight figured out but after playing maxstahs chun serveral times, I just can't find a solid answer.

:sad:

[Roogle]

Do not use projectiles against Rose unless you are at point-blank range.

I am not sure if people realize that she temporarily gets a damage boost with her own projectile from doing this. This sets you up for the rarely seen 100% Custom Combo or consecutive Soul Illusions.

She gets nearly half of a Level 1 meter, too, so absorbing two fireballs consecutively will most likely give her a whole Level 1 meter.

If you're hanging way on the other side of the battlefield, don't send projectiles over! A good Rose player will be able to absorb most of the projectiles even if you vary the speed if there is enough distance. Only Rolento has the advantage over this theory since Rose cannot absorb or reflect his knives.

[TS]

need an opinion on this strategy.

I've been working this trap strategy with ryu where i'll dump 1 meter everytime I get it to throw fireballs repeatidly over and over. If I get a set and they're forced to block, I get 3 lk tatsu's which give me back half meter. With a little footsie, i'll have 1 bar in no time and pick another spot to dump it @. I think you get like 5-7 fireballs per bar.

If they want to jump out, I just dp that ass and go back to building bar till I get to dump it again.

my main goal is just to abuse the chip and force them to jump which will happen. When you properly pick your spot, you can't be AC'ed to my knowledge. I don't see how they can AC you when your 1\2 screen with multiple fireballs in the way but I don't really know this game that well.

I realize that using his cc properly is the real way to do it but i'm just fucking around with the game a little.

Sounds interesting. You're talking about using CC right? Was hard to follow at first.

There are a couple of character-specific problems where you get stopped mid-way: Bison/Akuma/E.Ryu teleports, Dhalsim's super slow jump and air teleport, etc.

Sounds intersting though. I don't really play A2; doesn't Jab DP build more meter than the whifed hurricane kick? So maybe whiff DP and then whiff Short hurricanex2 would work better?

The whole thing seems sorta contingent on you actually getting it started to set up further reps. If they stay too close to you so the blockstun isn't as big a problem/they can AC etc... It's sorta like Sakura's crossup loops- good to have, but there are ways out of it during, and more importantly, before ending up in that situation.

Would be interesting to see in use, though.

[epsilon_]

Do not use projectiles against Rose unless you are at point-blank range.

I am not sure if people realize that she temporarily gets a damage boost with her own projectile from doing this. This sets you up for the rarely seen 100% Custom Combo or consecutive Soul Illusions.

She gets nearly half of a Level 1 meter, too, so absorbing two fireballs consecutively will most likely give her a whole Level 1 meter.

If you're hanging way on the other side of the battlefield, don't send projectiles over! A good Rose player will be able to absorb most of the projectiles even if you vary the speed if there is enough distance. Only Rolento has the advantage over this theory since Rose cannot absorb or reflect his knives.
It is not worth rose trying to absorb ryu's fireballs if hes throwing them at about her sweep range, the fireball knocks down at this range, and is also virtually impossible to block on reaction at that range (it takes 1/5 of a second for block to register in a2)

[shoultzula]

Sounds interesting. You're talking about using CC right? Was hard to follow at first.

There are a couple of character-specific problems where you get stopped mid-way: Bison/Akuma/E.Ryu teleports, Dhalsim's super slow jump and air teleport, etc.

Sounds intersting though. I don't really play A2; doesn't Jab DP build more meter than the whifed hurricane kick? So maybe whiff DP and then whiff Short hurricanex2 would work better?

The whole thing seems sorta contingent on you actually getting it started to set up further reps. If they stay too close to you so the blockstun isn't as big a problem/they can AC etc... It's sorta like Sakura's crossup loops- good to have, but there are ways out of it during, and more importantly, before ending up in that situation.

Would be interesting to see in use, though.

I should of said it was a CC trap, that probably would of made things much easier for everyone.

Against those characters that can teleport, i'd probably pick a nice spot to set it up first but if I fucked up and those characters, its only a 1 bar cc gimmick. By the time there teleport animation ends, i'm guessing that I can cc walk away from them to be on the opposite side of the screen then go back to playing footsie. 1 bar CC time doesn't last long.

you have to set it up right for the most part. You don't want to be too close because you can be ACed. To far and they can get out. Become predictable and they can anticipate it.

depending on how many fireballs I executed properly, yea the DP is the better choice. Its really all about the layer of the fireballs though. The only advantage tatsu has it that it can make someone jump. If you do 2 on the ground going fwd, 1 jumping back, then one more fwd, on the 4th one most people will try to jump and I just tatsued into my dp range. 3 of those are guaranteed and the 4th one is bonus because i'm full screen.

As with anything thats has trap as premise of offense, your inclined to fuck it up occasionally. As long as you can dodge trouble if you fucked up and make it count next time, its ok imo. s\d tactics from marvel basically.

[Roogle]

It is not worth rose trying to absorb ryu's fireballs if hes throwing them at about her sweep range, the fireball knocks down at this range, and is also virtually impossible to block on reaction at that range (it takes 1/5 of a second for block to register in a2)

That is one of the exceptions, yes, but if the Ryu player is too dependant on that strategy, the Rose player might do a quick preventative reflect, but you're right - that is a safe range to use the projectile. Like I said, though, if you're on the other side of the field and the projectile won't knock her down, don't bother.

[shoultzula]

i'm still confused on what the engine is doing. With sakura, if you do her throw that bashes them, she gets a free xup. The thing is though, its not an xup. Its an original side attack but its hitting as if it were an xup. Just wondering why thats happening because its going against the rules of the engine right?

how about some solid strats againt chun. Some of these chuns, I can handle but when I step up to a guru chun, like maxstah's, its 10-0 all day every day. Can't out footsie her because her moves have longer range, her fireball rivals mine, her walk speed is stupid and it might as well be a dash and her damn CC eats me up. The damage output on that CC is stupid. Air to air, she has moves that wipe me out and even air tatsu can be beaten @ the right angle by chuns normals.

The only thing i've tried doing is playing smart and trying to work footsie as best as I can then ACing her or CCing her when I get a chance then go back to playing smart. In the end though, its not enough. Smart solid chun will wiff very few normals to give me a chance to CC or block low to avoid the valle CC. When I start ACing her, she can break up AC timing to throw me off then i'm really stuck. If I try the overhead, theres enough time to CC me back before it hits and yea, i'm missing life.

i play ken when I have to go top vs top.

help?

[jsheppar]

doesn't sakura's crossup hit depending on what point during the jump you hit attack? early forward = hits front, late forward = hits back. i always thought that was why it was so useful, its' ambiguity.

[shoultzula]

doesn't sakura's crossup hit depending on what point during the jump you hit attack? early forward = hits front, late forward = hits back. i always thought that was why it was so useful, its' ambiguity.

ahh yes, you're right. I just tested this today against some sakuras online. I guess those few people I played only knew how to the original side one but why does it hit original side and flies through as if it were an xup?

also, can you block that shit consistently? It looks like the spot where you hit mk to crossup or not xup is a very small window but can you visually eye it out then block accordingly? I don't like guessing games and sak is a bitch when she comes to that.

[epsilon_]

not really, its like a 50/50 basically.

also 2 of them dizzies most of the cast.

sakura is good. her custom isn't great, but her normals are good and her supers are useful.

[mastermind]

Any Rolento tips vs. Chun? Priority is a bitch, and her name is Chun. I can't get near her at all. It's insane.

[epsilon_]

run away. jab back rolls build meter.

jump jab for AA when you can. throw knives. when you get meter, play cc games. you only have to hit her like twice before you can kill her in one cc.

[EXPlus+]

I have a question about Birdie's tick throw setups, I might need some expert Gief player's input here as well as a comparison - since I haven't played him much in this game.

Basically I setup tick throws with S.LK -> LP360. It's fairly reliable, but I noticed that people have started to jump out/mash out/cc after getting hit by it once or twice and they begin to expect it. I usually counter by tossing in a C.FP after the S.LK as a mixup once they catch on.

Is there a more reliable way to land a tick throw for Birdie? In ST the only reliable way to stop a tick was a perfectly timed reversal, so maybe it's the A2 engine? Does Gief have the same issues with ticked SPD's? Or maybe it's just another Birdie disadvantage that I'm seeing.

[Triplejjj]

Well I've read about the infinite blowout range on Evil Ryu's CC, but I've never gotten it to work for me. If the range is so large wouldn't he be able to hit opponents from like half screen distance with Valle CCs? The version of SFA2 I'm playing is the SF Anthology one, with the 96/03/06 dipswitch setting enabled, just in case that might make a difference.

[Middlekick]

Evil Ryu's infinite blowout CC range property was removed from the Alpha Anthology version of SFA2.

[shoultzula]

I have a question about Birdie's tick throw setups, I might need some expert Gief player's input here as well as a comparison - since I haven't played him much in this game.

Basically I setup tick throws with S.LK -> LP360. It's fairly reliable, but I noticed that people have started to jump out/mash out/cc after getting hit by it once or twice and they begin to expect it. I usually counter by tossing in a C.FP after the S.LK as a mixup once they catch on.

Is there a more reliable way to land a tick throw for Birdie? In ST the only reliable way to stop a tick was a perfectly timed reversal, so maybe it's the A2 engine? Does Gief have the same issues with ticked SPD's? Or maybe it's just another Birdie disadvantage that I'm seeing.

you can't jump out of certain ticks by gief. I'm not sure if birdie\sodom are the same, but you can cc through them I believe. with shotos, c.lk, tick throw can be beaten by a CC everytime. Granted, a shoto normal throw may not be the same speed as giefs spd throw speed so that might be a factor.

i'm not sure which ticks are guaranteed outside of cc's with gief\sodom\birdie but they're are some with gief that i've tried to jump and just got thrown.

E.ryu blowout is fullscreen, so yea, he's cheap. That sucks though that the alpha anthalogies took out e.ryu's fullscreen blowout. Thats what made e.ryu, e.ryu. I heard maxstah talking about 2p e.ryu teleport not being as good as 1p e.ryu teleport but I could be wrong. Anyone know whats up with that?

[BKB]

Maybe one of you guys can help me with something that I've never been able to figure out..

Lemme give you a situation to to clarify:

You vs... say, Ken. You are at sweep range. Ken does low forward kick, and you activate Custom Combo. During the frozen screen you can clearly see that Ken's low forward is fully extended and touching your character.

Now, most of the time, what happens is this : You try sweep, but run into Ken's low forward, get hit, Custom Combo over.

However, sometimes you can sweep, hit ken, NOT get hit, and finish your Custom Combo...... why?

Does it have to do with speed? (attack instantly, or later to let it whiff?) Or invincibility? (more meter?) or a combination of both? Something else?

[epsilon_]

combination of active frames and invincibility(meter) your custom provides.

[Ookamunka]

Ticks in A2 can always be reversed by a Custom. It's just another thing to look out for. The problem with Birdie vs. Gief is that his 360's seems to have startup, so it's much easier to get out of em as opposed to gief's which seems to be pretty instant.

I think with E.Ryu's teleport it has something to do with one side being able to cross up with it vs. the other side or something, since you when you teleport with him and you hit the edge of the screen you instantly recover from it. I could be wrong about this though.

[BKB]

Where does E.ryu stand in tiers?

[JackTenrac!]

^ isn't E. Ryu banned in tournament play, though?

- anything I should know about a Chun vs Relento match?

[epsilon_]

evil ryu is good, valle thinks he's better than normal ryu.

evil ryu is not banned in tournaments, and chun-li pretty much owns rolento, but it's not an unwinnable match.

[LuvMyCap]

Why is Sagat consider so low? He defenetly seems much weaker than other versions but just want to know exactly why.

What are some good ways to land his CCs?

What his strong point? If he have any.

If I am very close and active cc causing a blowout, is that a guranted CC?

Any general tip one should know about Sagat?

Thanks

[shoultzula]

Why is Sagat consider so low? He defenetly seems much weaker than other versions but just want to know exactly why.

What are some good ways to land his CCs?

What his strong point? If he have any.

If I am very close and active cc causing a blowout, is that a guranted CC?

Any general tip one should know about Sagat?

Thanks

imo, ac's killed sagat. Being able to walk into your characters AC range and waiting for him to throw that fireball fucks up his gameplan. He can't zone properly like he used too. It looks like his normals and his mind game are the key to his game plan.

also the fact that you can cc walk through a fireball and juice him. His staple point is his fireball zoneing like from ST except A2 has options that easily counter his gameplan.

He has a horrible matchup vs ken\akuma imo. If sagat throws a high tiger, ken\akuma can roll under it and get in range. If sagat throws a low one, ken\akuma can tatsu over it and get in range. Not to mention the fact that kens ac+k has huge range. So if sagat wants to zone him, it has to be with normals instead of fireballs.

His normals are still good. Great reach on some of his pokes.

his cc's do crazy life. I've actually seen quite a few variations of it but for the most part its just c.rh, tiger knee repeatidly then finish off with FP DP.

i'm not quite sure on this but I think if you cause the blowout with any character except e.ryu, it should be guaranteed. I've played against a good everything.

not a pro @ this game but I do play it daily and I get to see the majority of the cast for the most part.

very little akuma being played online though. I might start rocking him.

I have a question myself. Gief if dunkarific in this game. His spd ticks are god like. Espeically out of his cc. Good god, its almost impossible to tell what his tick will be out of his spd if you're playing against someone who knows how to mix it up. The rough part is that fake tick spd will get you right out of that cc as an easy mixup.

Are there any general strategies other than staying away from him or picking him off when you can read those spd ticks? I hate the fact that you have to commit to the reversal and i'm just looking for a little strategy.

also, does his lariat have invincibility or just an extremely fast start up?

[Ouroborus]

Why is Sagat consider so low? He defenetly seems much weaker than other versions but just want to know exactly why.

What are some good ways to land his CCs?

What his strong point? If he have any.

If I am very close and active cc causing a blowout, is that a guranted CC?

Any general tip one should know about Sagat?

Thanks

second tier is not low.

hes second because he doesnt have the reach on his normals from his cvs2/A3 incarnations and his fireballs arent as good as his ST old incarnation.

his strong point is raw damage, extremely strong CCs. weak points are the ones mentioned above and hes pretty slow.

[Atobe]

I have a question myself. Gief if dunkarific in this game. His spd ticks are god like. Espeically out of his cc. Good god, its almost impossible to tell what his tick will be out of his spd if you're playing against someone who knows how to mix it up. The rough part is that fake tick spd will get you right out of that cc as an easy mixup.

Are there any general strategies other than staying away from him or picking him off when you can read those spd ticks? I hate the fact that you have to commit to the reversal and i'm just looking for a little strategy.

also, does his lariat have invincibility or just an extremely fast start up?

I think reading the spd ticks is the main thing to know. Either don't let it happen or AC every time it happens.

I usually try to get level 1 asap before I go offensive, that way if i decide to block then I can AC if it looks like a spd tick.

If you do something and you get 360, if possible don't do it again =). Example I was playing against Giefrules and I knocked him down. I ran right next to him and crouched ready to do either overhead/throw/c.rh when he got up he did a Final atomic buster on me. From then on, I do not crouch right next to gief on wake up.

About your Gief question, I am not sure about the situation you are talking about. If Gief does lariat with all 3 kicks then he can spin through low attacks, if he does 3 punch then he can go through fireballs (mid attacks?).

When jumping into Gief and if he does a lariat (not sure which one, I assume 3 punch) then I think it is fast startup because I remember hitting some Gief out of lariat when they did not time it correctly.

[EXPlus+]

I found that playing defense and a solid ground game is the best way to stop a good Gief player. I try to zone him out and never even give him the option of starting the tick cycle. Usually most Giefs try to land the tick spd after scoring a knockdown, so I try not to jump in to avoid getting hit by the punch lariat's great priority - or even worse the anti air grab super. Shotos crouching fp beats most of Gief's jump ins cleanly if you don't have time for the SRK, Charlie of course has the LK Flash Kick, and Dhalsim is a Gief player's worst nightmare. If I do get caught after a knockdown and I think a tick is coming, I either AC his jump in or CC after he lands.

Shoult, found any anti-Chun strats worth mentioning so far? I find my best shot is usually with Shotos or Adon at this point.

[epsilon_]

gief really gives sim a hard time in this game, it ain't st, thats for sure.

chun destroys gief though, you just have to be stubborn with your anti airs, because if gief gets in once and lands like a fp spd, he just evened the match up even if you AA'ed him 3 or 4 times in a row.

for the record,ppp lariat has upper body invince, and kkk lariat has lower.

the reason gief's jumpin games are so effective are his varying hitboxes/priorities you cant consistently anti air him with any one thing at any one range. and if he gets in once, damage.

[shoultzula]

Shoult, found any anti-Chun strats worth mentioning so far? I find my best shot is usually with Shotos or Adon at this point.

hmm, for the record, I still lose to AWESOME chun players but I have a few tricks up my sleeve.


ryu vs chun:

quite tricky. S.lk beats out chuns low fwd and I think this is applied to ryu\ken\akuma. Not quite sure about dan\sakura. You read the opponent for low fwd patterns and interupt her with s.lk, KD FB.

ryus hcf+fp is KD @ perfect ranges to counter chuns normal game. Its really effective because KD's give you time to set her up for something.

if someone is getting fireball happy w\in the proper FB range, you pacman her FB with a shinku. She'll stop zoning less with fb's and you can work yours.

for the most part, ryu can't really out footsie chun. However, his fwd+mk will go over low fwd which counts for something but its not safe from certain ranges. I've noticed that if you decide to turtle it up, shell walk in and out of her low fwd range to bait you to do something. Most players have patterns when they start doing this and you can time when they walk fwd and catch them with c.mk, FB. Its not great life but it is footsie and you can catch her frequently with this till they stop walking around. Chuns walk speed is too good and seems to be a staple point of her footsie mind game.

I've noticed that once chun has established her dominant footsie game, she'll get in close so she can force easy pressure with her normals. This is the only time when you can try to out footsie her and get her with something. c.lk x2 super, low fwd into KD FB etc...

and the best strategy is to just use the fucking clock. Take off time. See if the other guy can actually maintain the proper moves through out the entire course of the match. I've noticed that some chun players are really gimmicky and when you use the clock, you'll be able to see that gimmick more and more and you'll eventually think of a counter. Even when you use the clock vs a smart chun, you establish the mental game and you'll be able to work options to land hits.

a big problem with chun isn't her normals but rather her damn CC. Its chunky life and from what i've seen, it can be done with 1 button lol. Its important to win the first round. Its crucial. When the 2nd round comes up, try to gain the life lead and force the chun player to burn up his CC so when the 3rd round comes aroud, you have bar, she doesn't and you can pick her off with your CC then fight it out. Thats probably the best strat i've managed to come up with so far.

chun vs ken:

much easier than ryu because you have some normals that compete with her range. Again s.lk is good and stuffs her low fwd when timed right and if she wiffs low fwd, s.rh with ken is guaranteed I believe. Establish the same type of FB game as you would with ryu but try to play from half screen. If she tries to empty jump or jump out of your dp ranges, s.mk will eat her up most of the time as an easy counter.

A big advantage that ken has over ryu in this fight is kens ac+K. It lets ken compete on the same footsie level with her to an extent. Esepcially when you have bar. She'll be less likely to abuse footsie. Which gives you time to break her down. However, I have encountered players that know how to AC reversal so its vital that you AC on moves that she can't cancel from or catch her during awkward footsie battles where a cancel would be impossible or very hard to pull off.

Try to win the first around to force her to dump her bar the 2nd round so you can have the cc advantage the 3rd just like ryu. This actually can be used against any character that has powerful cc's like rolento or sagat. Its a universal strats thats not directly applied to one character but towards the characters that have great cc's.

One day I was playing maxstah and he kept CCing through my lp DP. After he was done raping me, he told me that mp dp makes it much harder to CC through his AA. It hits twice @ 2 different points and cc invincibility only lasts for so long. Its not impossible to cc through it but its like 10x harder to cc through it compared to LP which is easier by comparison.

chun is really dominanting from mid screen. She controls it but she has to fight out of the corner in which case AC's come into play and overheads with tick throw mixups. One of kens best features is that his damn mp throw will pratically throw them into corner and it can lead to winning around or good solid life to establish a life lead. So Mp throw is quite a good tool in this fight.

and from personal EXP, its almost impossible to cross her up. She already has a small enough sprite box. Then to add to the fact that she has incredible walk speed. Its almost impossible to catch someone who knows what they're doing with kens crossup. You might land it once or maybe even twice, but never consistently. It still can be used but don't count on it as your gameplan.



for the record,ppp lariat has upper body invince, and kkk lariat has lower.



I fucking knew it!!! I tried jump in attacks from different angles and I just couldn't hit the fat ass russian. Man, gief has some really good shit in this game. He can wreck shop easily. Thnx for clearing that up epsilon.

[@js]

One day I was playing maxstah and he kept CCing through my lp DP. After he was done raping me, he told me that mp dp makes it much harder to CC through his AA. It hits twice @ 2 different points and cc invincibility only lasts for so long. Its not impossible to cc through it but its like 10x harder to cc through it compared to LP which is easier by comparison.

According to Valle (when he was on Alphaism radio), it's actually impossible to anti air DP any characters with small hit boxes, like Chun (and I've had it happen to me, too). All she has to do is activate just before the area she'd normally be DP'd at and then hold down so she doesn't walk forward and counter the DP on the way down.

Don't forget though, shotos have REALLY good CC's, too. Level 1's with Ken and Ryu both do ridiculous damage and can be used as perfect whiff punishers, not just against Chun. Also, strong punch DP beats ground attacks way better than jab punch DP.

This is all basic stuff and I still suck, but eh, I wouldn't be surprised if people didn't know about some of it.

[TS]

Some people reading this are new to A2, and maybe the only games they've really spent time with are Third Strike or CvS2, where DPs act a little differently.

Strong/Fierce DP vs attacks that hit low, but also knock the opponent further away, whereas you have more time to follow up with Jab DP. It's less noticable than in A3 because people are more likely to do the ground recovery in A2, and air recovery isn't an option.

[shoultzula]

Strong/Fierce DP vs attacks that hit low, but also knock the opponent further away, whereas you have more time to follow up with Jab DP. It's less noticable than in A3 because people are more likely to do the ground recovery in A2, and air recovery isn't an option.

this is a good point out because I didn't realize it till a few weeks into the game. When you lp dp, you give the opponent time to roll underneath and through you if you don't hit them out of the roll and alomst give them a free cc.

since mp dp knocks them so far away, even if they fp roll, they'll never be able to roll through you and get you.

[Middlekick]

since mp dp knocks them so far away, even if they fp roll, they'll never be able to roll through you and get you.

yep, also gives you a lot more time to see this roll and punish accordingly

[shoultzula]

yep, also gives you a lot more time to see this roll and punish accordingly

its option tree.

When you mp dp, you prevent the roll entirely but you let them do lp roll and get away from your options. A good plus to this is that you send them across the screen and gain the screen advantage and force an error.

If someone is roll happy, basically every time you knock them down, they'll roll when they can. This is where the LP DP comes into play. LP DP, sweep them all day when they roll. Free life.

Eventually against roll happy oponents, they'll stop being sweeped out of the LP DP and just take the KD and deal with the wake up. Then you start noticing it and attempt the MP DP to gain screen advantage and then they roll.

you have to decide what options you want to play since both lp\mp dp are guaranteed as AA and they don't have a bar to CC through it.

[FSgamer]

Is there any place I can find frame data for SFA2? Like characters specific stuff, CC invincibility frames, tech roll stats, etc?

Also, is it possible to link into a CC like in CvS2?

[BKB]

Yeah you can link CC after jabs with a lot of them. You can link CC after most moves that allow a normal to link after too.

Frame data? No idea. I'd love to have it too.. especially pre-jump data. Refine my ghetto 360 setup lol.

Do katobbi cancels do anything in this game?

[shoultzula]

Yeah you can link CC after jabs with a lot of them. You can link CC after most moves that allow a normal to link after too.

Frame data? No idea. I'd love to have it too.. especially pre-jump data. Refine my ghetto 360 setup lol.

Do katobbi cancels do anything in this game?

hmmm, i wasn't aware that you could link cc's in this game. Looks like my cc game just got deeper.

for frame data, theres a program called wrectangles. You can't find it on the net anywhere but theres a guy on the boards who will send it to you if you ask for it. He developed the program himself. The actual purpose is to be able to create your own hitboxes for further study of the game assuming the they're correct but the great thing about this is that its actually a frame capturing tool so you can frame by frame shit. Very simple lay out too.

I'm sure if you did a search for the program on srk, you would come up with a few hits. The man himself plays ST as his main game. You can search that section of srk and expect a hit. I forgot his name though but I remember reading a few posts saying that he created a program blah blah. Look for something like that.

[Ookamunka]

I have my All About Zero2 book somewhere which I believe has the frame data. I need to find it. Are people seriously interested in this information?

[FSgamer]

I have my All About Zero2 book somewhere which I believe has the frame data. I need to find it. Are people seriously interested in this information?
Yes, I'm very interested in it. If you could scan and upload it somewhere I'd be very grateful.

[Saisyu Kusanagi]

Originally Posted by: Mastermind
Any Rolento tips vs. Chun? Priority is a bitch, and her name is Chun. I can't get near her at all. It's insane.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CC break alpha3, stop playing this game it sucks. Rolento vs D-Hore good luck with that dude!

[JackTenrac!]

I have my All About Zero2 book somewhere which I believe has the frame data. I need to find it. Are people seriously interested in this information?

I am also. Please put this information onto the Upload site.

[shoultzula]

does anyone know what causes high knock downs? i've seen it probably 50 times now and I can't figure out whats causing it. I assume HKD's only happen during CC's.

[epsilon_]

it happens if they dont go to a neutral state after being hit by a knockdown move during cc. after landing a cc, do a meaty knockdown move or combo that knocks down and they will pop up higher, putting them in a special juggle state.

[Debaser]

Any Dictator strats?

[Marble]

Anyone got anyone advice for Sakura's cross-ups?

[mrdhalsim]

for frame data, theres a program called wrectangles. You can't find it on the net anywhere but theres a guy on the boards who will send it to you if you ask for it. He developed the program himself. The actual purpose is to be able to create your own hitboxes for further study of the game assuming the they're correct but the great thing about this is that its actually a frame capturing tool so you can frame by frame shit. Very simple lay out too.

I'm sure if you did a search for the program on srk, you would come up with a few hits. The man himself plays ST as his main game. You can search that section of srk and expect a hit. I forgot his name though but I remember reading a few posts saying that he created a program blah blah. Look for something like that.

Yes, that's me- if anyone is interested in taking a look at my Wrectangles program just drop me an email (I might forget to check PMs so my email is fawnix at mark on a gmail account).

David Boudreau
XSPR on xbox live

[Triplejjj]

With regards to the Sakura crossups question, if you are feeling confident you can try to wake up dp, however that is fairly risky, since you may have to use a turn around dp or a normal one depending on her positioning, furthermore I have no idea whether you are using a character with some form of dp or not. It is possible to avoid further crossup attempts after a Sak bnb combo by using a quick fall, however if your opponent is expecting this they can cr. short the fall's recovery and you end up in the same situation, so only go for the quick fall, if they immediately commit to another crossup.
Perhaps the best advice I can give you is try to avoid situations that Sakura would use to set up her crossups. For example, pay close attention to your spacing during footsies, so she can't whiff punish with footsweeps into crossups or worse yet customs. As always be wary of tick throw attempts since all Sak users utilise her punch throw to setup crossups and throws are instant in this game unlike A3. If you have already been knocked down and I know you probably don't want to hear this, but your absolute safest option is to simply block the crossup. Even though you don't gain any initiative and there is still the possiblity of tick attempts, it is far better imho to eat a throw or two, rather than the damage and stun from a bnb that will reset the whole guessing game. My apologies for the somewhat lengthy post, I hope my advise will prove helpful Marble.

[NeREMIXED]

can anyone post rose tactics besides d.mp?

thx :)

[BKB]

^ crouch fierce when they jump over d.mp. :P

[Sephiroth73003]

What is a good jump in CC combo with Sakura? I find my self just mashing and trying to get into sweep than my CC combo, after i power through an anti-air. Do i do j. FP or or what?

[Matow]

Low Roundhouse, QCB+HK, DP+FP works best for a LV 1 custom. Don't remember her having any really killer LV 3 customs.

[Zakuta]

can anyone post rose tactics besides d.mp?

thx :)

c.hp when they jump in

s.rh when they want to jump

or c.mp =)

[inthesto]

Does Chun still own Charlie for free? I was playing Charlie vs Chun on GGPO the other day, and I was getting kicked silly.

I just want to know how much can be attributed to my sucking.

[epsilon_]

yes, its pretty free. chun does more damage than charlie, beats him on the ground, is generally very difficult to anti air for charlie without a charge, and generally harasses him with tick throws.

also sonic booms are basically useless unless shes knocked down because of her jump speed/priority.

[BKB]

Does Chun still own _______ for free? I was playing ________ vs Chun on GGPO the other day, and I was getting kicked silly.

Fill in the blanks. :P

[mr.hadoken]

Any Dictator strats?


His best normals are standing strong, low strong, low forward, standing forward is a good poke for but watch out for ACs from the big 4. My strats r alot of pressure with standing forward, psycho shot, and head stomps. I use jumping forward alot and fierce mixups with the airthrow at time. I save my meter
for either level 3 psycho crusher or punch AC. CCs i do are are low roundhouse, hadorave. I try 2 go for simple 2 in 1s also like a jump in low strong, low forward, standing roundhouse (!st hit) into the psycho shot or knee press. If any1 would like 2 add more to this be my guess, even old dogs could learn new tricks :)

[Yar1n]

Any tips with Charlie against Rolento? I'm kinda clueless in this matchup.

[Chipp Zanuff v5]

Any adon combos?

[Matow]

Adon isn't really a combo character

He can link 2 crouching strongs together.
HE can cancel low jab, short, strong into his DP, or his rushing super.
For his custom do sweep, Jaguar kicks and end with a RH DP.

Charlie

Rolento isn't a favorable matchup for Charlie. Try not to get hit by his custom as it does 40% to 50% at level 1. He can combo his normals, or custom if a knife hits deep. He's got great range on his custom with his slide. His low strong is hard to AC. Rolento's low strong low, forward doesn't combo on Charlie. His jumping strong trades with a lot of anti airs including most of Charlie's. He can anti air custom any of your jumping attacks. He can kick AC you and custom you from behind. Rolento can cross you up pretty easy. If you get hit by the patriot circle it gives you a lot of meter and doesn't do very much damage. The grenade throw does no damage if you tech it. I don't have a whole lot of advice but I do play Rolento as my main character. I never ran into a Charlie that really gave me any problems.

Dictator

His fireball is hard to custom through. His best custom is slide, scissor kicks, and end with a head stomp. None of his customs are really damaging.

[TS]

Dictator: Knee Press Knightmare (kick super) goes through fireballs and is one of those supers that's unblockable from a pretty decent range if you weren't blocking before the freeze frame. Pretty good priority at level 1 also.

He also has good footspeed, which gives him nice throw range to catch people who are looking to AC (you have to watch out for Valle CC, of course). As was just stated, his CCs aren't too strong, and his fireballs are slow, but good.

[dialupsucky]

You can juggle with a tiger knee after kick super with adon. You can also combo to tiger knee to tiger knee. But I think thats ones rollable. Been awhile.

[mr.hadoken]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=SsQNQsUsoWk

[Yar1n]

Hmph, I'm having some trouble handling Dictator with Rose. Any tips?
Thanks in advance.

[Hugo 101]

I just switched from 3s and turbo to A2 and I am learning gen, sodom, birdie and gief. For some reason every time i face a ken i get owned by cc's. Anyone know how to keep him from getting into cc range?

Also i am having a hard time adjusting to this version of gief since he was one of my mains in turbo, any tips? :sweat:

[lomo the kid]

If Ken get's in, the war begins.

But first I'm a A2 noob today. But iirc you can counter activate CC activation with you own CC activation.

playing Gief out of those three character you mentioned is totally the right decision! The Alpha Gief's are legendary. :wink: (half srceen Valle unblockable ftw)

Playing with those activation mind games is enjoying like chess and even better if you win. ^^

[inthesto]

So is Dictator the god of throwing in this game or what?

Every time somebody picks him against me, I get thrown at least five million times. I swear I'm not exaggerating.

[Sevenskirt]

If Ken get's in, the war begins.

But first I'm a A2 noob today. But iirc you can counter activate CC activation with you own CC activation.

playing Gief out of those three character you mentioned is totally the right decision! The Alpha Gief's are legendary. :wink: (half srceen Valle unblockable ftw)

Playing with those activation mind games is enjoying like chess and even better if you win. ^^
Lomo said it. There are generally two ways to avoid getting hit by a Custom Combo.

The first one is to activate your own CC as soon as you take notice of your opponent's CC activation. With this, you can somehow make your opponent's one useless.

The second one, which is quite difficult to avoid, is the Valle Unblockable he has mentioned. There is already a small window of time during which you can switch to block when your opponent is activating CC mode in a normal way. This window is being reduced even more when activating it Valle-style. The Valle Unblockable always starts with a low attack, usually c.Roundhouse in most of the cast's case. When starting a CC with a low attack, then there is only one way for you to get out of this situation safe, namely if you were already blocking low BEFORE the opponent's CC activation had started.

[pyro_dragun]

Is there any good A2 faq out there that explains the combo system and game engine details to someone new to the game like me? I've seen jchensor write some combo system faqs for a couple other games, but I haven't found any for A2 yet.

Also, I've activated my CC right after the opponent before, and still got hit by their cc. Anyone know what happened there?

[rusbar]

ok, i've played a2 since it came out but never really tried distinguishing between the levels of cc's. when i played at the arcades, i would just hit all the button knowing that a cc would activate as everyone else did the same thing.

now my question, what determines what level the cc will be? also, does a level 1 cc have less time than a higher level cc? finally, how do you activate different cc levels? i went to gfaqs to check but all they said about cc activation is 2 punches + 1 kick and that's it.

[epsilon_]

cc uses up all your current meter.

what level the cc is determines how much invincibility the activation will have and (obviously) how long the cc will be.

i dont see how you can be playing a2 since 1996 and not notice these, things...

[rusbar]

cc uses up all your current meter.

what level the cc is determines how much invincibility the activation will have and (obviously) how long the cc will be.

i dont see how you can be playing a2 since 1996 and not notice these things...

maybe it's because i never took a2 seriously, or that after a3 came out i moved on to that instead of focusing on a2, or that alpha anthology rekindled my love for a2 to the point of me wanting to learn a lot of the intricacies of the game.

anyways, so then different levels of course have different amounts of time for cc's and invincibilities. since cc's use up all your current meter, how do you determine the level of the cc? because when i used to play a lot when a2 was in the arcades, i just thought it would be better to save up all 3 meters for a cc. but when readin different threads, i keep seeing people emphasizing using a level 1 cc.

[epsilon_]

you cant choose which level you want, it uses up all your meter at the time.

[rusbar]

thank you

[JackTenrac!]

did that Framedata ever get posted, btw?

[Sevenskirt]

Here are some videos that should give you an impression of how and when to use Custom Combos properly, e.g. as anti-airs or other ways to get to your opponent on a safer (but still risky!!) way.

Video1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZy7wd-5BP4)
Video2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-wght3SKuI&feature=related)
Video3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m67BhLm5egw&feature=related)
Video4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otXJG821_Bs)
Video5 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yl5pNeqbyU&feature=related)

The first three videos are the best ones concerning the usage of Custom Combos.

[yates]

Use CC to beat out throws and little pokes. Use CC to blow through anti-airs and air-to-grounds---creates fun situations. Use CC to punish people for walking/standing (fucked up aka awesome) in your sweep range (they have a few frames to counter-activate if they have meter). Mix up CC with throws. Use CC for no reason at all. Use CC against AC-happy opponents to make them waste meter whilst you cancel the sweep into an invincible move and combo. Use CC to blow through fireballs. Use CC to punish. Use CC.

Has there been any talk of delayed AC reversals on here? I hope there has. This is the advanced A2 discussion thread. There's still shit about this game I don't know...so post up if you've got good shit...or...be a dick.

But anyway...you can cancel into invincible/evasive moves from pokes without committing by timing the cancel such that the (typically unsafe) move does not come out if they do not AC your normal. The skill therein lies in your ability to ascertain whether or not they are AC-happy, and to determine which pokes (and in which situations) they are fond of AC'ing. The problem, however, is that ducking is very hard after a delayed AC reversal (when you're in the moment against a good player, that is) and with such an emphasis on lows in A2, standing/walking opponents look very, very tasty when you/they have meter.

[Akutabi Gamma]

Any tips for properly using Gief in this game? For some crazy reason I can't get revesals to come out after I get knocked down.

[Rob2_0]

rolento strats plz


if its already posted then just give a page number

[GunterJPN]

Any tips for properly using Gief in this game? For some crazy reason I can't get revesals to come out after I get knocked down.

Vids of me using Gief are at mikado's website. I took 3rd there last month with basically four moves - j.strong, knees, SPD, and CC. :wgrin:

[Akutabi Gamma]

Vids of me using Gief are at mikado's website. I took 3rd there last month with basically four moves - j.strong, knees, SPD, and CC. :wgrin:

Kickass I haven't DLed Z2 matches from Mikado in a while, but mind directing me to the page that has the matches plz?

[GunterJPN]

Kickass I haven't DLed Z2 matches from Mikado in a while, but mind directing me to the page that has the matches plz?

http://mi-ka-do.net/event/movie.php

Anything with Zangief in it is me.

[JackTenrac!]

Video1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZy7wd-5BP4)

... Gouki was too close to Rose. She should have taken him out quicker as punishment. And what's with all that tripping?:looney:

[GunterJPN]

Here are some videos that should give you an impression of how and when to use Custom Combos properly, e.g. as anti-airs or other ways to get to your opponent on a safer (but still risky!!) way.

Video1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZy7wd-5BP4)
Video2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-wght3SKuI&feature=related)
Video3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m67BhLm5egw&feature=related)
Video4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otXJG821_Bs)
Video5 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yl5pNeqbyU&feature=related)

The first three videos are the best ones concerning the usage of Custom Combos.

The first three videos were pretty horrible. They show how you CAN use CCs, but not how to use them properly. First of all, the Rose player looks like an A2 player that decided to use Rose, not an A2 Rose player. Rose is different from other characters in that her CC is actually the THIRD best way to use her meter. She should be using it for Friends super and ACs most of the time. CC only through FBs if necessary or to counter (throws, drop-through, etc.).

In all the matches, there are characters with fireballs, yet not one CC through a fireball. Most of the CC activations were random. There was one instance where Ryu was at almost full life against Rose and burned his meter in the corner. That in itself wasn't bad, but he should have used his hurricane kick super to try and get Rose to burn an AC. Myself, I would have just empty jumped in and thrown.:rolleyes:

In general, entirely not enough meter building on anyone's part. Against fireball characters, if you're skinny enough to go through them, you should make the game more footsie-based and meter-building so you can go through fireballs when you get past level 2.

The last two matches are much better quality in terms of gameplay, but not for CC usage. Kumazan is the best Zangief in Tokyo. I lost to him like 17 games straight and had the time of my life. He's who you should look at for proper Zangief play. He should have won that first match against Ken, but I think he used fierce DPs instead of jab ones. It may have just been the bad cabinet at Mikado.

[JackTenrac!]

They're G3E. That's why they suck.

[yates]

To the guy asking for Rolento strateejery:

Get on GGPO, everyone and their mother can at least half-ass a Rolento game on there. That's certainly an overstatement, of course, but it goes to say that there are quite a few who can proficiently play Rolento.

I doubt you'll find anything worth running in any match videos, though, outside of games on the GGPO dojo (I could be wrong, though). Most match vids (even recent) are behind the times, as far as I've seen. Most match videos are too clean and pretty. A2 is some dirty ass fighting.

Or, if you have Kawaks and P2P, we can set up a time to play. Rolento is pretty easy once you know all of your options and have committed knife cancels and CC's to memory.

[kingfismit]

I actually used to use him when ggpo first came, all you need to know is his lp. and faking his QCB+k

:P


PS- you can just go to the dojo on the ggpo website to find rolento matches..

[Rob2_0]

I actually used to use him when ggpo first came, all you need to know is his lp. and faking his QCB+k

:P


PS- you can just go to the dojo on the ggpo website to find rolento matches..

yeah thats what i have been doing, im still pretty bad with him but i guess im getting better

[kingfismit]

knife pressure, dood, those knives are probably the strongest projectile in the game, and master his CC, one of the tops in the game as well, right behind chun li

canceling his QCB+k with down mk, pressure with launcher jump in+mp. mix up pokes and knife pressure along with throws+CCs and random supering, you're PRO

[JackTenrac!]

Any easier way to cancel into Super Upkicks?!

[ThePunisherXBL]

How is Sakura played in this game? What are her choice pokes, specials, combos ect...?

[kingfismit]

her usual Bnb=cross short,jab,st.short,hp.SRK.. her cross up is very good, you have to commit to standing blocking if you don't want to be crossed. her standing roundhouse seems pretty slow. but her standing fierce is real fast and a good anti air. doesnt have that extra kick after her hurricane kick, and no air stomp, or whatever it was in cvs2, sorry if this doesn't help >.<

[jsheppar]

it's a fight to get in with sakura, then crossups. mad dizzy potential, like 2 bnbs will dizzy your opponent (2x cr. short, st. short, fierce shoohken). her cc's are alright, but her supers are pretty decent as well. the 2xqcb kick super hits low, safe on block, and does quite good damage. her fireball is good for mid screen mind games as well; throw a few out, have them blocked, then expand it to 3rd size to catch jump-ins.
typical pokes are standing roundhouse and crouch forward iirc. essentially look to punish with a sweep, then move in and destroy your opponent with crossups and tick throws.

[yates]

Yep, that's pretty much what she does. The trick with the cross-up is to pressure them really hard into paying attention to which side you're going to hit on. You can control it in a subtle way to make it seem as though you're going to cross up, but you end up hitting normally (head-on). Can really fuck with someone's head. Also, be mindful of tech rolls in cross-up situations. If you think they'll tech to get out of the cross-up, you get the b&b combos. Up close, she can land 3 cr.lk's into st.lk, fp DP. On crossup and in corners she can land 4 cr.lk's into a st.lk fp DP.

Also, in the corner on wake-up, you can land f+fwd, cr.lk, fp DP. I'm pretty sure you have to meaty the overhead in order for it to work. Which is good, because if they do anything, or fuck up a reversal, they're getting it. (unless it's a cc or reversal cc. then again, she might be able to space it such that she is out of the cc's blow-out range. not sure about that though, as i don't play Sak, and I don't fuck with that situation most of the time). I'm pretty sure this doesn't work in open play, as I've only been hit by it in the corner, but I could be wrong.

[ThePunisherXBL]

Thanks for the info. You guys were a lot of help.

Just one more question: what is her best option when knocked down?

[JackTenrac!]

Any easier way to cancel into Super Upkicks?!
Anybody? This is a Chun-Li question.

[epsilon_]

why would you ever want to combo into super upkicks? you can juggle a rh up kicks after lv1 senretsu kyaku. up kicks super is practically always a waste of meter.

[Shatov]

I read earlier in the thread that Sodom is a good matchup against Chun. I really can't figure how. Anyone have Sodom anti-Chun stuff? I mean on occasion I can j.RH on reaction but it isn't too reliable. I still can't regularly cross her up with j.srt(lk). Lastly, I seem to have nothing on the ground as I can't pin her down with Scrapes. Any clues on this one?

Edit: I realize that some of this is covered at the beginning of the thread, but outside of reaction jumping and the fierce scrape that only seems to get me in position and not pin her, I'm still not getting far in this matchup

[ToyRobotTerror]

Any sagat strategies? Also combos? If it has been covered already i'll go dig deeper in the thread.

[epsilon_]

with sagat you want to make them jump, but his anti airs arent as good in this game, and his normals are weak. to make up for this he has a really good custom.

c.mk isnt special cancelable, s.fp is slow, s.mp is slow, he has no close s.fp, s.lp is terrrible, fireballs are pretty slow too.

lv1 tiger raid is safe, and in the corner you can juggle fp dp on some chars.

c.mp is pretty much your go to move into tiger raid (you can do short short too, but the timing is awkward)

because s.mp is so slow if you do get a clean j.rh and dont have meter i just do c.lk xx fp dp.

if you have meter you can combo into custom from j.rh.

his kick alpha counter is pretty good.

j.lk is a crossup, but all of his close normals are so slow you can only really combo c.lk or c.mp after it.

for "anti mash" end strings with c.mp xx low tiger.

btw if you didnt know his custom is activate, c.rh s.mp (to put them at a good height) rh tiger knees, fierce dp.

[ToyRobotTerror]

Thanks eps

[RagingStormX]

Dont forget sagat can far AA cc starting with s,mk for full damage.

[JackTenrac!]

you can juggle a rh up kicks after lv1 senretsu kyaku. Would this be near the wall or anywhere from that?

[Nokato]

Would this be near the wall or anywhere from that?

You can do it anywhere for the most part, probably not against another Chun though...you know how her hitbox is blessed in this game...

[The General]

Some questions about the match-up against Sakura:

How do you block cross-up attempts (with j.short or foward or whichever kick it is)? If you manage to block the jump in, is it even possible to switch to crouching block to stop the ensuing c.short/jab --> s. short .....etc, etc.

How do I stop tick attempts? She comes in with one ore two c. shorts up close then quickly goes for the throw.

What do you do to get out of corner traps. She'll generally jump straight up and do a j.foward/j.short, then land and do two c.shorts. Or she'll wait for you to get up and start with two c. shorts and the do a fwd+foward and it seems like cancel into a standing roundhouse or something.

I use ryu and sakura and my matches against good sakuras basically always end up exactly the same. getting tripped, crossup, crossup, etc. And then finish with a Crouching Fierce xx qcb,qcb k.

Oh and on a random note, how do you sacrifice throw? Whenever I try to throw after getting hit, I either do an attack or get kicked in the legs.

Any help would be appreciated.

[RagingStormX]

Some questions about the match-up against Sakura:

How do you block cross-up attempts (with j.short or foward or whichever kick it is)? If you manage to block the jump in, is it even possible to switch to crouching block to stop the ensuing c.short/jab --> s. short .....etc, etc.

How do I stop tick attempts? She comes in with one ore two c. shorts up close then quickly goes for the throw.

What do you do to get out of corner traps. She'll generally jump straight up and do a j.foward/j.short, then land and do two c.shorts. Or she'll wait for you to get up and start with two c. shorts and the do a fwd+foward and it seems like cancel into a standing roundhouse or something.

I use ryu and sakura and my matches against good sakuras basically always end up exactly the same. getting tripped, crossup, crossup, etc. And then finish with a Crouching Fierce xx qcb,qcb k.

Oh and on a random note, how do you sacrifice throw? Whenever I try to throw after getting hit, I either do an attack or get kicked in the legs.

Any help would be appreciated.

You block cross ups the opposite way. As far as countering throws, mash light attacks into combo, dp, or cc. As for sac throwing, Im pretty sure in A2 its pointless. If you can throw after getting hit, you could have thrown after blocking also. Also use your alpha counters to get her off you, thats what they are there for.

[kingfismit]

and dont forget to learn how to safe fall away from her:rofl:


or it's cross-ups for you all night long.

[RagingStormX]

yeah but dont be predictable with it, especially after a sho'ouken combo from her. Otherwise she can combo you again :(

[Kyokuji]

This is totally unrelated, but I never noticed that Dhalsim is still jabbering away about yoga when he's dizzied. That is fucking hilarious.

[Lionx]

I looked through the entire thread and couldnt find Rolento's CC. All i do at the moment is activate => c.mp to or skip this and go straight to, sweep xx Knives juggle in air.

Is that the right one or...i dunno lol, its ghetto as hell though xD.

[Person-Man]

Rolento's CC: D+ HK, UP, mash the LP button, land, down + up again and mash LP button, repeat for as much as you can

in other words: sweep, super jump, j.LP x N, land and super jump again, repeat as much as you can


this does just a notch short of 100% of their health, you land it and you WIN

[Lionx]

Thank you :D Appreciate the help

[Person-Man]

No prob man.


Peeps who are really good at A2, what are some dirty cheap Ryu tactics? I mostly just go with basic stuff: use his godly fireballs to zone them, c.MK xx Red Fireball, AC or shroyuken as anti-air, tick throw them and meaty fireball traps in the corner, oki tricks, HK hurry kick over fireballs, and land his cheap ass CC when I can get away with it. Just doing that my Ryu feels pretty solid, but I know I can be cheaper than that, this is basic SF2 stuff I'm doing.

[fliper]

yo can someone please give me some recommended dip switch settings for alpha 2(in alpha anthology)so I can make the game close as possible to the arcade version

[TVG]

No prob man.


Peeps who are really good at A2, what are some dirty cheap Ryu tactics? I mostly just go with basic stuff: use his godly fireballs to zone them, c.MK xx Red Fireball, AC or shroyuken as anti-air, tick throw them and meaty fireball traps in the corner, oki tricks, HK hurry kick over fireballs, and land his cheap ass CC when I can get away with it. Just doing that my Ryu feels pretty solid, but I know I can be cheaper than that, this is basic SF2 stuff I'm doing.

I'm not really great but here's little things i picked up from ryu:
If you're zoning with fireballs you got him mostly covered lol. HP (red) fireball is godlike when used as a sorta "poke", right outside their poke range. Zoning is good and works mostly as in SF2 stuff. Things to remember:
His overhead is hard to react to and goes reeealy far. You can have stuff like 2 c.MP connect and still be in range to do it. Talking about c.MP, while not on rose level of dirty, it's still among the best in the game, you gotta love it, it also links into itself, among other things. As with all shotos you can start antiair CCs with standing strong into dragonpunches. If you activate for nothing you should spam a shitload of jab fireballs then get in (either with air tatsus or doing a jab to cancel the fireball then advance). You get decent chip + a free mixup. Not that you should activate for nothing but it will eventually happen i guess. c.HP is a better antiair than in your average SF game and you can cancel it into a jab fireball and have them block it. Shinkuu hadou is pretty good, as are most fireballs supers in A2. If you need to get them off your face kick alpha counter knocks them far away and puts away all the hard time they worked to get in.

Yeah there's really isn't much "advanced" stuff with ryu besides the obvious, good ryus just zone really well and use his meter wisely. He's just really good at that and one of the best chars in the game.

[DagV]

could someone explain the "if you get knocked down from a cc ..you have to block the other way" thing.. and certain scenarios were this might occur ..exept for when rose does an ac

[RagingStormX]

No prob man.


Peeps who are really good at A2, what are some dirty cheap Ryu tactics? I mostly just go with basic stuff: use his godly fireballs to zone them, c.MK xx Red Fireball, AC or shroyuken as anti-air, tick throw them and meaty fireball traps in the corner, oki tricks, HK hurry kick over fireballs, and land his cheap ass CC when I can get away with it. Just doing that my Ryu feels pretty solid, but I know I can be cheaper than that, this is basic SF2 stuff I'm doing.

After a c.mk xx fireball knockdown, hold uf, j.lk at the last second. Its a safe jump in and if it hits go into c.lk x2 fireball. Alot of times they try to throw which leads to c.lk x2 xx fireball another knockdown into the same situation. Repeat til j.lk and c.lk is blocked. From the blocked c.lk, go for throw, or c.mk xx fireball if you think they expected your throw attempt. If they jump at you when you have meter, cc them with s.mp/c.mp xx lk hurricanes xN, end with hp dp. If they jump from afar, actiavte, s.fp xx hk hurricane into lk hurricanes, end with dp. C.fp is one of the best meaties and if it hits you can link a c.mk or sweep, if blocked walk forward and throw, or go for a counter hit. S.mk is a really good anti cross up, hitting instantly above his head. Hope this helps.

[ThePunisherXBL]

I'm was just having the hardest time against Ryu earlier with Chun. I dunno what the fuck went wrong, I just could not pull off anything. Being the corner is a bitch.

Question: whats up with reversals in this game? I can't seem to pull one off to save my life. He was really predictable with his walk up sweep or cr.mk xx fireball on wakeup, but I just could not reversal the son of a bitch.

[RagingStormX]

I'm was just having the hardest time against Ryu earlier with Chun. I dunno what the fuck went wrong, I just could not pull off anything. Being the corner is a bitch.

Question: whats up with reversals in this game? I can't seem to pull one off to save my life. He was really predictable with his walk up sweep or cr.mk xx fireball on wakeup, but I just could not reversal the son of a bitch.

Jab dps have no lower invincibility. They will at BEST trade with a low hit. Best bet is mp or fp dragon punch, also note the timing for wake up dp isnt as easy as say, CvS2, but easier than ST. Also Akuma and E. Ryu's mp and hp dps dont knock down with the first hit, so they usually just have to block sweeps and such from a distance.

[RagingStormX]

Unblockables:

After Bison's cc ending in Headstomp, his meaty sweep in unblockable.

I believe after Sim's Air grab super his sweep is unblockable. Also you can do 3 lvl 1 air grabs in a row, after landing 1, immeadiately do another, this will grab them on the ground as long as they dont hit any buttons.

After a sweep with Rose, Activate lvl 1 shadow super and do a meaty df+mk. If done right only the shadows hit which are unblockable and you can tag on a c.mp xx mk drill.
Same set-up can be done after a c.mp xx lk drill in the corner I believe.

[JackTenrac!]

How do you time Chun's Axe Kick, Birdie's Steam Roller, and Ken's Shoryuken to pass through projectiles?

[RagingStormX]

do it when it is very close to the characters hitbox

[RedStarWolf]

not to be off topic, but it seems that SFA2 is more popular than SFA3 here in SRK.

btw thats true, so it wouldnt have the chance of hitting you up so close.

[EmblemLord]

Can I get some beastly ass Ryu CC's plz?

Also does he have any unblockables?

And ...why doesn't SFA2 have a motherfuckin scene?!?!?!?

[Person-Man]

I forgot about this thread and didn't check back. I check again months later and find that RagingStorm and TVG gave me some awesome advice. Thanks a lot guys, especially you Raging Storm for the mixup loop.

[RagingStormX]

This thread has good info, but dead compared to this one http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=162792

[RagingStormX]

not to be off topic, but it seems that SFA2 is more popular than SFA3 here in SRK.

btw thats true, so it wouldnt have the chance of hitting you up so close.

Idk about that, but I do see more people on A2 in ggpo than A3 now. But overall I think A3 is more popular, just not the better game. Please no A3 vs A2 discussion cause my last comment, just my opinion.

[Person-Man]

I'm trying to learn to Magic Grab with Gief and have a bunch of trouble. So it's just a tick throw right? AFAIK, an SPD is active for one frame, and if doesn't connect on that frame, it whiffs. So am I supposed to just try to time it so that I do a 360 and hit Up + Punch on the exact frame that get out of hit/block stun? Or is there some sort of timing trick? Is it open for move than one frame?

[RagingStormX]

You can do it the moment they are getting up or out of block stun, I usually do it asap ater a lk with no problems, doing it on their wake up takes some timing. 2 was to practice, sweep then taunt or sweep then whiff SPD, you should be able to spd rigth after.

[JackTenrac!]

do it when it is very close to the characters hitbox

Which of the three variants is a more safer move to use? or is it character dependent?

[RagingStormX]

ken use lp dp, chun hk overhead, birdie is all the same

[Akutabi Gamma]

I would like some Zero 2 Gen gameplay stats plz (Yes cuz of SF4).

[RagingStormX]

Gen is fucking complicated lol there is some stuff on him in the A2 teaching thread and I can answer any questions in particular.

[Terry_nb]

I play Guy a bit less and started Gen as well again, his CC is crazy good damage but I wonder if I should rather got for AC and supers after chains??? Really it seems even though A2 is meter happy I never have enough with him.

Sides how useful is his second stance, except for that nice c.SK ...

[ramberk]

It was not until I watched these Mikado videos that I knew Gen and Guy could combo supers off of throws. I didn't even know you could combo two supers together. Are Gen and Guy the only ones capable of this?

[RagingStormX]

Yeah, those 2 can, but Dan and Sodom can also. Guy can actually hurricane kick after a throw. As for Gen you want to always chian inot lvl 2 super, unless a lvl 3 will kill (damage between lvl 2 and 3 is very little). In the corner you do lvl 2 rush, switch stance, then lvl 1 grab juggle. Gen builds meter extremely quickly with whiffed dps. You have to make use of both stances while playing him, constantly switching. KKK stance can land a lvl 3 grab super as easy as PPP stance can land rush super.

[Terry_nb]

Well, any chance you can introduce me to some kick stance stuff. I have not the most time and yeah usually play Guy, but Gen, Charlie and Akuma are my usual switch if I get bored lol. I hope some things will translate to SF4 as well in case of Gen.

[eidrian]

Offtopic, but since a lot of people read this thread i figured i'd ask.

Someone have this DVD?

http://www.geocities.jp/vegascup07/dvd3.htm

Or someone in Japan willing to get it for me? I'll pay good $.

If you have it, lemme know on PM, we'll work something out.

[RagingStormX]

Well, any chance you can introduce me to some kick stance stuff. I have not the most time and yeah usually play Guy, but Gen, Charlie and Akuma are my usual switch if I get bored lol. I hope some things will translate to SF4 as well in case of Gen.

I constantly switch stances, I try not to stay in one stance too much unless it is better to do so (like vs Gief). KKK has nice normals, c.rh is AA, c.mk goes under fbs, c.fp on counter hit does x3 damage, c.lk knocks them up for juggle. J.fp and rh are great air to air, j.mk crosses up any one. Rolling special goes under fireballs and off the wall kicks can lead to lvl 3 air grab juggle. Alot of stuff Gen can do =).

[Terry_nb]

Ah yeah that anti air kick is nice and that you can duck fireballs there seems very nice. I will try some things out you mentioned here when I play today. :)

[Lionx]

Lol so i got hit by a flashy ass Gen CC today...

Ki-ryuu - Activate c.lk => Ouga Kicks back and forth off the wall...that shit fucking combos in the air like its Maximum Spider. Did like 60% damage off a level 3, probably not as damaging as the normal CC, but still rofl...

[RagingStormX]

Lol so i got hit by a flashy ass Gen CC today...

Ki-ryuu - Activate c.lk => Ouga Kicks back and forth off the wall...that shit fucking combos in the air like its Maximum Spider. Did like 60% damage off a level 3, probably not as damaging as the normal CC, but still rofl...

Yeah Ive done that a couple times, dps are better though.

[epsilon_]

If that combo starts with c.lk you can probably "air tech" out of it.

[RagingStormX]

If that combo starts with c.lk you can probably "air tech" out of it.

Not necessarily, depends on how fast the move hits after the c.lk. if he goes to a far wall, more than likely though.

[Lionx]

Wait theres Air Tech in Alpha 2?

[RagingStormX]

Wait theres Air Tech in Alpha 2?

When you tech roll in the air early you can avoid certain juggles, cause it makes you invincible to them. Sim is the best with this, though its with his yoga escape, he can avoid alot of ccs, or alot of the hits from them.

[Lionx]

I see, never knew about this, thanks :) Good stuff.

[HP87]

I was messing with SFII Chun just a moment ago and notice that she's lost her c.foward cancel. Her kikoken has also become a charge move. Does she gain anything in return for the two nerfs?