Strider/Doom vs Spiral/Sent?

[rising_player]

Which trap do you think is better? I'm not talking about it in an actual match against each other, I'm just talking about it as in which trap is better overall when using it against other players. I know that you got more of a chance to screw up with using the Strider/Doom trap, but it looks way more cooler than the Spiral/Sent trap, plus I think it scares your opponent more; that's my opinion. So what do you guys think when comparing these two traps to each other? Which ones better? For me I'd say that the Strider/Doom trap is better because I like how you can teleport behind the people and do some crossups and stuff with it.

Or you guys can just name and explain why any other traps are better than either of these traps.

[shoultzula]

thats tough.

each has it pro's and con's.

s\d has better damage output but the trap requires meter. The best s\d team has no AA on it which forces s\d to block out rather than to call AA and reposition. s\d probably does more chip per pattern also.

spiral doesn't need meter to set her trap up and she can build shit loads of meter. I think her trap is tighter than striders as well but I could be wrong. It gets scary when duc plays with it because his cable will always have meter. Her teleport is instant too and her trap allows an AA on the squad.

its tough to say. I guess the only people who could answer that is somone who's an expert with both?

[gouki10]

IMO

spiral trap > Strider Trap

why? reasons shoult listed above

[Radiant93]

yeah. i also have to agree. spiral doesn't need meter. why don't we ask those people who really are trademark(i think) users of those tandem.

[shoultzula]

all though ssd aka team clock has problems with AA. if the strider player can put himself in the position, that AAA is down to 70-90% life off of one meter with strider. Depending on what you know its possible to do 100% life to AAA with one stock while the opponent can't do shit. Lock down + assit kill is something that spiral doesn't have.

strider just needs one clean shot @ the AA and now ssd has the advantage. The other day I was playing a friends msp, and I did 95% to psylock off of one meter. I've done that numerous time to cable AA and cyke AA.

all though s\d as a team may be weak due to team chemistry, he can make up for it in sheer damage potential. The clockwork throw combo if its not teched is up to 70% life into trap. Which is 90% life if strider doesn't land a hit during the re-orb series. Not to mention that strider probably does have more trap options than spiral.

sprial kills you slowly.
strider can kill you faster as well as destroy your assist @ the same time.

I guess it boils down to what you're looking for. If you want to trap and gain meter @ the same time, spiral would probably the better choice. If you want to trap and kill, strider is probably the better choice there.

its tough to say which trap is better because striders trap does more life to the opponent as well as there assist. Spiral builds bar and her trap is tighter but her damage output isn't nearly as high as striders. Where each trap team is weak @ is the other trap teams strength.

for arguements sake though, duc did win evo with spiral. I think the best strider has ever done was top 10 and that was by clock.

[Ephidel]

From what I've seen the Spiral/Sent trap works wonders over the Strider/Doom one.

[Augmint]

Which trap do you think is better? I'm not talking about it in an actual match against each other, I'm just talking about it as in which trap is better overall when using it against other players. I know that you got more of a chance to screw up with using the Strider/Doom trap, but it looks way more cooler than the Spiral/Sent trap, plus I think it scares your opponent more; that's my opinion. So what do you guys think when comparing these two traps to each other? Which ones better? For me I'd say that the Strider/Doom trap is better because I like how you can teleport behind the people and do some crossups and stuff with it.

Or you guys can just name and explain why any other traps are better than either of these traps.

I play spiral, but probably strider/Doom - mainly for the fact you can put Doom rocks behind people, and use him more than once - but there's the con of using meter. Plus there's the fact strider can punish assists - I'd like to see Shoutzillas matches to see how consistently he can get the %'s he's putting up (no slight intended)

Other pluses for strider/Doom would be that it does better vs sent/commando (although I'm starting to get a bit more comfortable with the match up using spiral). Although spiral still has a few good things things strider doesn't have.

So yeah... on paper strider/Doom.

Is this thread to help you decide on which of the two to use?

[disgruntled goa]

I don't play Strider/Doom but I'll go with Spiral/Sent anyway cause Spiral is just that good.

[rising_player]

I actually created this thread to see what people had to say about these two traps. Me personally I've always used Strider/Cable/Doom since I started playing mvc2 last summer. I've tried using psylocke and magneto before, but for some reason I just liked using strider and doom.

I picked spiral/cable/sent yesterday when I went to the arcades and used spiral for the first time. I don't think I got the rythm down yet of how to do her trap, but I do it something like this

reg jump --> call swords --> land --> dash forward --> hp --> 12(call sent)3456 --> as drones hit I jump call swords, and repeat.

I mash both the sent assist and lp after I throw the 1st and 2nd sword. I don't really think this is the right pattern to do the trap though because it didn't felt like the way I've seen duc using this trap.

I also learned this trap from watching a video on youtube teaching people how to do this trap using other helpers like sabretooth and blackheart.



Hey shoultzula I got a question for you. I'm just wondering if you'd rather lose to a strider/doom trap or a spiral/sent trap? I'd think that you'll say strider/doom trap because it'll be preety borring to watch your life slowly drain down while you are block stunned in the corner lol.


PS: I can't practice mvc2 at home because I don't own a ps2 so I'll record a few of my matches using spiral and sent whenever I get the chance to go the arcades.

[shoultzula]

I'd like to see Shoutzillas matches to see how consistently he can get the %'s he's putting up (no slight intended)


Hopefully by final round I will have it mastered. Thats what i'm aiming for @ least. Heads will roll when its mastered. I get it often enough for it to be a problem though.

I'd rather lose to a spiral player so I can see how it works and really break it down. I haven't really faced a good one yet.

[gouki10]

a good spiral fights by controlling space

the trap is what is done when you ground the person and want to get the max chip damage or set up for a safe tag or even combo.

spiral is actually a keep away character more than "trap" character.

her "trap" is actually just a lockdown that can be push blocked out of.

look at cable, he has a lockdown with s.hp X4 plus drones if done right, but people don't mention it because people have been fighting cable more than spiral, once players start playing agianst these characters like strider/spiral/cable, they begin to understand how to get around what they do, however that doesn't take away anything from the fact that if you slip up you can be punished for it big time. examples

Strider/doom, what shoults explained

Spiral- if you don't get rid of her she builds alot of meter that lets say cable can use, thus enhancing the other members of the team while bring your life bar down. Alot players that don't fight spiral regulary or have figured out how to fight her will crack under the pressure she brings.

Cable- do i really got to explain this?

get shot once, you can end up eating 3 bars that kill a character. all the while trying to find away to get in on him, and then he notices how your "defense" or way of adapting works vs him, and begins to take advantage of knowing what you will do by "running away" more effective or even just throwing you when you try to bait him or his assist out.

all these characters control space and use there abilities to set u up for big damage.

it ain't the "trap" you gotta worry about, it's killing them before they get any momentum and being to rape your brian.

[rYo_sakaZaki]

i tried them both...

i'd go for spiral/sent coz it's easier (for me) to do than s/d...

also, you dont need any meter for spiral/sent...

[shoultzula]

IMO, striders trap is alot deeper than spirals. Sometimes I purposely let my opponents out to set the bomb up and re-trap. Spiral really doesn't have a super powerful move that she can throw out there and hope for damage and its safe @ the same time.

Striders bomb can also nuke assists if you can throw it right. I can let it hover over you and if you smack the assist button, that assist is getting blown the fuck up. If you do nothing, I get to come in and lock down. If you SJ, I get to throw another one. If you square jump @ me , jb+fp+drones then zone or trap. Too many options for good life.
the player makes the team.

IMO striders strengths makes up for his bad team dynamics.

the worst thing about s\d though is that strider is the team. With spiral, she will setup the team.

[randomsuper]

strider doom is a much a better trap but at the end of the day you have to remember that there's one more character to deal with. plus, doom is cable bait. pretty easy assist to ac into kill since he stays out there so long. at the end of the day, strider doom sent isn't as good as spiral sent cable.

[Mixup]

"Plus there's the fact strider can punish assists - I'd like to see Shoutzillas matches to see how consistently he can get the %'s he's putting up (no slight intended)"



He's pretty damn consistent, although striders orbs are really fucked up no matter

[randomsuper]

spiral can kill a team by herself pretty easily. it just takes FOREVER. it's amazing how frustrated people can get off of really basic zoning patterns that only work because the other player is stupid predictable. but once people get used to her, she's just a pest. again, the better trap goes to strider doom, better team spiral sent.

[ducvader]

Strider doom has a more damaging trap but it takes supers. Spiral also has a trap that doesn't take supers but shes not strong at punishing assist which means cable or sentinel has to do the punishing. The original question is which team is better at trapping and I think the winner is s/d. However, if you ask me which team is better in overall dynamics then I would say spiral. Oh... and for those who think that once you get use to spiral its all gravy in beating that team think again - LOL - spiral to me isn't really a trap character. A good spiral player will let you out of certain traps only to get more damage done to you when you do get out. That's just my opinion but what do I know huh?

Duc

[shoultzula]

A good spiral player will let you out of certain traps only to get more damage done to you when you do get out. That's just my opinion but what do I know huh?

Duc

hmm. I thought that was only something s\d players did. Its weird that spiral would attempt the same thing.

[Augmint]

I do it vs sent - its hard to sustain her trapping far/full screen away so I'll let him sj (making sure he's out of frypan or LK range) and throw swords ( one of her swords gets thrown above her - really useful), then force him to block, bring him down, use drones and keep him blocking.

[rising_player]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the best S/D player is Clockwork (it's hard to decide between him and kai-sing) and the best Spiral/Sent user is DucDo right? Does anyone happen to have some match video between these players?

[SNAKESHOTPEOPLE]

Anything statement that uses the word "best" is an opinion meaning that Duc and Clock aren't the best of their teams, but the most effective placers in tourney with those teams. Strider's orbs are better than swords in all ways except chip and meter loss. Strider can fight well up close. Spiral can at times, but just not as good. Strider can fight well afar. Spiral does it better. Strider/Doom means Strider is stuck with the option of 1 God tier. Spiral has two. Strider has a better chance of landing a hit. I'd say Strider is an all around more solid character solo, but this game is a team based game and Spiral works well with others. Strider doesn't contribute to the other characters. Even his assists are somewhat useless.......

[Mixup]

I've seen many many different beastly options with striders trap into mix-ups and damage with bomb on helper.

as far as the trap goes, i even like the flow of spirals trap better than striders. her trap doesn't have as many variables as his and the spacing for striders trap is close, hers at far. This may not seem huge, but think about all of the alpha counters getting neutered...she has drones backing her all the while.

duc, i wish i could play spiral, i've been on and off trying for years.:sweat:

i can play pretty much any team combination fairly well outside of spiral based squads. I think zach should have a large section on your matches. just so we can watch and learn to play spiral (vs several top players and most team combinations, thats whats sweet about his site, you get so much footage that you can learn more than just a few match-ups)

that and the fact that i can learn to play patiently by watching you and the wozzler, you ever think about that, if you sit and compare player to player, your patience level is closest to wongs outside of all other players. Thats not to say i think you're better than XX or whoever, just the difference in styles is something i am always thinking about. any comments on why you play the way you do? I'm picking up some cheezy keep away patterns and trying to play patiently, it's paying off because i see my opportunities in a much simpler way.

the main point of my post is actually found below...

Sent/doom

vs

Spiral/Cable/sent

when it comes to team chemistry, that comparison will never need a second guess.

spiral not only has the aaa and the trap/ground control assist, she builds bar while she traps, strider that bum charges one every time.

I could ramble on, but i'm done for now

[ZZ_Jaron]

but both traps can be messed up and excaped out of
I have a friend who can do the s/d trap in a way so tht it builds meter, so the s/d trap can be repeated off of 1 super in the beginning off the match, if you know how.

Spiral trap is flexible and Spiral can still fight after a single messup in the trap, when strider messes up he sometimes gets eaten

I recently did this matchup w/ my friend, Clockw0rk vs Duc
I noticed that team Duc can be more flexible becuz you don't have any Storms/Mags/AAA to worry about. So Spiral can move freely and load knives.

Strider must stay on Spiral like a wart all day and once strider runs outta supers he's almost worthless.

team clockw0rk can easily be destroyed when strider runs outta supers and then you snap in Doom, thus killing the team

clockwork can chip like crazy tho and sent gets owned by the s/d trap

W/ Clockw0rk you can just snap in Doom and Spiral and Sent can take Doom easily, photons are pointless becuz Spiral can teleport

I'd say Spiral/Sent becuz they can actually fight well w/o eachother. S/D needs supers + Doom, so the team is too dependant on Doom, besides I've never heard of Doom working w/ Strider
Doom is more of a weapon, rather than a teamate

[shoultzula]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jHTrjkP6Mk

kaising vs a spiral player.

your making it sound like s\d doesn't have a chance. Trap is extremely effective when you can think ahead and guess what your opponent might try. It doesn't matter what team your opponent has then.

when its trap vs trap, it boils down to who's smarter and who can execute better.

[ZZ_Jaron]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jHTrjkP6Mk

kaising vs a spiral player.

your making it sound like s\d doesn't have a chance. Trap is extremely effective when you can think ahead and guess what your opponent might try. It doesn't matter what team your opponent has then.

when its trap vs trap, it boils down to who's smarter and who can execute better.

but like I said the team is too dependant on Doom, evry good s/d player will eventually run out of supers (except my friend)just snap em out when there is an opening, the team really doesn't have a large aerial game so i'd say stay airborn and throw circle knives, then sj up there again

When its trap vs trap yes it does require smarness and execution, but it also requires patience and good reaction.

[shoultzula]

evry good s/d player will eventually run out of supers (except my friend)


lol wtf.

ok, let me get this straight, out of every s\d player that has ever played this game for 7 years, your friend is the ONLY s\d player capable of managing meter?

get real kid. Managing meter with s\d is how you play it. Thats just basic s\d.

that statement alone proves to me that you really don't have a clue on how the team works.

[ducvader]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jHTrjkP6Mk

kaising vs a spiral player.

your making it sound like s\d doesn't have a chance. Trap is extremely effective when you can think ahead and guess what your opponent might try. It doesn't matter what team your opponent has then.

when its trap vs trap, it boils down to who's smarter and who can execute better.

:-/ - Not a very good representation for both teams. That spiral player isnt doing much at all.

Duc

[Clockw0rk]

Duc's posts pretty much got it IMO. Also needs to be added that Duc is a better Marvel player than I am, so basing a team's strength by comparing our tournament performances prolly isn't so accurate; Duc is alot better with Spiral/Cable/Sent than I am with Sentinel/Strider/Doom. Even when I was playing regularly, I never got higher than 5th at EVO, and it's something I attribute to my own shortcomings as a player (my execution and terrible Sentinel) rather than the team I use. LET'S PRACTICE DUC :wasted:

Though most importantly, Spiral looks totally stupid with her helmet and whatnot and thus I'd rather play Strider.

PS sop mixup. When's our rematch ;p

Clockw0rk

[Demon Dash]

Things you need to think of is that S/D needs meter to trap, so while it might be effective for a short ammount of time, eventually he'll need to run and build meter giving S/S the chance to force mistakes...

[Mixup]

Duc's posts pretty much got it IMO. Also needs to be added that Duc is a better Marvel player than I am, so basing a team's strength by comparing our tournament performances prolly isn't so accurate; Duc is alot better with Spiral/Cable/Sent than I am with Sentinel/Strider/Doom. Even when I was playing regularly, I never got higher than 5th at EVO, and it's something I attribute to my own shortcomings as a player (my execution and terrible Sentinel) rather than the team I use. LET'S PRACTICE DUC :wasted:

Though most importantly, Spiral looks totally stupid with her helmet and whatnot and thus I'd rather play Strider.

PS sop mixup. When's our rematch ;p

Clockw0rk

that damn 4-3 3-4 loss haunts me, rematch asap:annoy:

dope tourney

[ZZ_Jaron]

lol wtf.

ok, let me get this straight, out of every s\d player that has ever played this game for 7 years, your friend is the ONLY s\d player capable of managing meter?

get real kid. Managing meter with s\d is how you play it. Thats just basic s\d.

that statement alone proves to me that you really don't have a clue on how the team works.

Yes my friend can manage meter, he plays Clockw0rk so much, he found out how to keep meter.
Matter of fact, after 3-4 reps of the trap, he sometimes runs out (played him yesterday)

I forgot where I read it, but I heard that the s/d is unstoppable up until you make a mistake (teleport wrong, etc) so he just does everything perfectly (he still sucks)

You say I don't know the team, but I hate Doom, I dought I will ever think of learning s/d trap, I just don't like teams that rely on 1 specific character even though combined have devastating results.

I play SScable, you can play anybody in that team.
EDIT: Can anybody find any matches between Duc and Clockw0rk???

[Radiant93]

dought

? or is it "doubt"... no offense man.

anyways. it's not that i don't like spiral/sent, but im still for strider/doom.

[KillerKai]

Where the fuck is everyone in So Cal? Let's play again

:-/ - Not a very good representation for both teams. That spiral player isnt doing much at all.

lucky me :P

[Augmint]

Yes my friend can manage meter, he plays Clockw0rk so much, he found out how to keep meter.
Matter of fact, after 3-4 reps of the trap, he sometimes runs out (played him yesterday)

I forgot where I read it, but I heard that the s/d is unstoppable up until you make a mistake (teleport wrong, etc) so he just does everything perfectly (he still sucks)

You say I don't know the team, but I hate Doom, I dought I will ever think of learning s/d trap, I just don't like teams that rely on 1 specific character even though combined have devastating results.

I play SScable, you can play anybody in that team.
EDIT: Can anybody find any matches between Duc and Clockw0rk???

Your friend does everything perfectly yet he still sucks?
God damn what flame bait :wtf:

Found out how to keep meter....remarkable :pray:

[randomsuper]

cable/storm trap is pretty good too. no one here has mentioned that one.

[ZZ_Jaron]

Your friend does everything perfectly yet he still sucks?
God damn what flame bait :wtf:

Found out how to keep meter....remarkable :pray:

His s/d is good, but his doom and Sentinel suck. Plus he loses alot of meter for Doom and sentinel cuz his trap uses ever meter he has.

He just does the same pattern over & over again.
I think its something like:
lk, lk+Doom, tiger xx orbs, shoot about 5, teleport (low), lk, lk, hp, jump, hp, hk, land, repeat.
But, when you do it you barely reach 1 super, then you have to add hk after the teleport part, and hp+Doom to the next rep.

[Radiant93]

strider now has an airdash? wtf.

[Alucard20]

:-/ - Not a very good representation for both teams. That spiral player isnt doing much at all.

Duc



how about this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NTUm5Rrlf0

[shoultzula]

how about this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NTUm5Rrlf0

bah.

striders so dead when he makes a mistake...

[#reload]

strider now has an airdash? wtf.

add = addition, not airdash down lol.

[Radiant93]

oh. i see