3S raging demon properties question... [Archive]

NIN_CrimzinTerry

10-05-2002, 03:57 PM

ive been thinking about this for a while...

ok if akuma does s.rh and it hits and you cancel it into raging demon it combos right...the opponent gets like turned around or something and during that animation akuma hits with raging demon...

ok, if akuma does s. rh close the over head 2 hit thing...and you cancel it into raging demon something weird happens...like the raging demon advances towards opponenet and is like fucking touching them BUT doesnt dont grab them and then they can even jump out of it or throw or hit akmua...

now my question is why the fuck doesnt the raging demon grab them if its touching them??? they are still in hit animation as the first example i gave but for some reason it will not grab if its s.rh close the over head 2 hit thing...

anyone know why??? or does anyone know what im talking about??? LOL

thanks in advance...

im outi

Roberth

scuddman

10-05-2002, 04:16 PM

Let's say I'm using Necro and have picked slam dance.
I put my opponent into hit stun with b+ roundhouse and do my super, the super misses, even though the animations are touching.
However, if I do Necro's spin punch, it leaves the opponent back turned, and now the slam dance will combo.

Alex: same thing with hyper bomb. I hit with the knee then hyper bomb. Won't connect. I back turn them with fierce flash chop, now it combos.

Akuma...far stand roundhouse leaves them back turned for a moment. Close stand roundhouse does not.

Angry Black

10-05-2002, 04:17 PM

ill post here too. is there an eaiser way to do raging demon in 3s

SRWILSON

10-05-2002, 04:48 PM

Nin crimson - the reason is because your opponent is still in block stun hence they can jump -The idea is to land the demon with them out of block stun.
Oh and if you get a kick out of doing demons after f+mp why not just learn the Kara demon lp lp f+mp lk hp that will help you out and give you more range on the demon -but make sure you set demons up so they come out upon the opponent comming out of block stun.

Angry black -There is no easier way to do the demon -> Practice makes perfect!

Angry Black

10-05-2002, 05:04 PM

aight but that kara throwdemon was a new concept to me thanks.

S cLuBBeR

10-05-2002, 05:49 PM

I've been trying to learn RD setups with 3S Akuma as well. Any other useful setups besides strong punch overhead XX RD?

AKUMA2000

10-05-2002, 06:39 PM

ShadowHawkv2

10-05-2002, 08:14 PM

Kara Demon???
Umm do u do this the same way u do the regular ragin demon???:confused: :D

NIN_CrimzinTerry

10-05-2002, 09:28 PM

Originally posted by SRWILSON
Nin crimson - the reason is because your opponent is still in block stun hence they can jump -The idea is to land the demon with them out of block stun.
Oh and if you get a kick out of doing demons after f+mp why not just learn the Kara demon lp lp f+mp lk hp that will help you out and give you more range on the demon -but make sure you set demons up so they come out upon the opponent comming out of block stun.

Angry black -There is no easier way to do the demon -> Practice makes perfect!

opponent in block stun??? im not talking about the f+mp...

they are not in block stun they are getting hit by my s.rh or close rh they are in hit animation...

they get hit by my close rh and the demon doesnt grab them even though hes like in their face...someone gave me more instances with other characters that this happens to, but why does it happen???

im outi

Roberth

ShinBastard

10-06-2002, 12:44 AM

Basically the way all grab supers work in 3S is that you cannot grab someone out of block or hit stun.

Kinda obvious definitions:
Block stun is the stun you're in while you're blocking
Hit stun is the stun you're in while you're getting hit (sometimes also called reel stun).

However, there is a special hit stun where the character can be hit by a grab super. This happens whenever you hit the opponent with a move that turns them around.

So as listed earlier, characters with moves that cause turn-around can combo their grab supers.

Akuma - far s.RK
Alex - SP Flash (pretty sure about the SP)
Ibuki - j.FP
Necro - FP Tornado (maybe SP also)

Those are the ones I commonly use.

Crap, sorry scuddman, didn't realize until after I posted that I repeated most of your thread... oh well, figure I'll just keep my original post intact, and add that Ibuki turn-around.

NIN_CrimzinTerry

10-06-2002, 01:19 AM

ok that makes sense...but heres another question...

after the character recovers from hit stun why doesnt he grab them???because clearly the character recovers from hit stun then even jumps out which requires more frames to do, but the character is not grabed during those frames...

or does work like you cant grab them PERIOD if you canceled into the grab...

thanks...

im outi

Roberth

DarthSalamander

10-06-2002, 02:24 AM

I believe( not 100%) characters have a few frames when coming out of hit or block stun where they can't be thrown. There is a thread about doing Hugo's hand slap, dash forward, 720. If you do it too fast they can't be thrown because while leaving block stun they have a few frames that can't be thrown out of(enough time to hold up). So you have to delay the 720 a bit. I would assume the same idea applies for RD.

I think you can cancel the first part of the close s.roundhouse into Demon and it will grab them(assuming they are blocking but don't get hit).

SRWILSON

10-06-2002, 05:06 AM

Originally posted by NIN_CrimzinTerry

opponent in block stun??? im not talking about the f+mp...

they are not in block stun they are getting hit by my s.rh or close rh they are in hit animation...

they get hit by my close rh and the demon doesnt grab them even though hes like in their face...someone gave me more instances with other characters that this happens to, but why does it happen???

im outi

Roberth

Ah I sorry i misread when i saw mention about the f+mp chop I was thinking you were talking about something else anyway, I belive they have to block the close rh and you cancel into demon in the first frames of that before the rh hits them and then it should hit.

ShinBastard

10-06-2002, 11:32 AM

There is a situation in which you can grab them even if you cancelled into the grab. It happens when you cancel out of a move that was parried.

Basically it's just a balance/fairness issue as to why people are allowed that escape window when coming out of block/hit stun for grabs and super grabs. If the window wasn't there, then the grab would be a combo. The hit window's also there for when you try to do resets into grabs, in the case of demon setups after hurricane kick resets.

Perhaps someone has some frame data on jumps. Basically from what I remember, anytime a grab is activated from close range the opponent has the option of jumping except if they're crouching. There was something written about this topic after the Japan VS US Invitational.

NIN_CrimzinTerry

10-06-2002, 04:31 PM

oh ok i get it now...

1 more thing...the kara f+mp into raging demon...you said do jab, jab, f+mp, lk, fp

but dont the lp's come out hinting to opponent that you are going to do it??? or maybe the lps dont come out???

cause i seen where the f+mp just comes out without the lp, maybe they did the lp too fast for it to register or something...

im outi

Roberth

shinalkuma

10-06-2002, 08:37 PM

roberth:
the lp doesn't come out for me. after the f+mp i just do raging demon and it cancels nicely. *shrug* what do i know i'm a scrub.

NIN_CrimzinTerry

10-07-2002, 12:02 AM

Originally posted by shinalkuma
roberth:
the lp doesn't come out for me. after the f+mp i just do raging demon and it cancels nicely. *shrug* what do i know i'm a scrub.

we are not talking about after the f+mp we are talking about before the thing even hits the opponent, as in his hand is still above his head then that cancels into raging demon...

by the way when you going to play with the tucson peeps, they all want some new people to play...

im outi

Roberth

shinalkuma

10-07-2002, 12:43 AM

i see well either way i sometimes hit the opponent and sometimes i dont. oh well.

i would be in gilbert this past weekend but i have a midterm on monday. next week i'm going to go home and see my girl. but as for time to play i'm really not sure Roberth. i wanna just practice after tommy gives me one of his sticks (he didn't give me one yet) then join 2 tourneys and that's it. i'm done. dont expect me to be in the sf scene for too long. i'm gonna be back to play a couple of tourneys in tucson for mvc2 and then i'm gone. i wish i have time to play but my schedule doesn't let me. i have constant hwk and my girl takes a good portion of my times since she wants to talk alot. other than than i'd be home to gilbert if i wasn't busy that weekend. primarily i've lost interest in street fighter. i've been playing counterstrike with my bestfriends and quake online. some of my good friends back in gilbert are pros that are national material so it's fun playing with them. *shrug*.
sf bores me. especially mvc2 everyone plays the same shit over and over again. until capcom shows me something good as fuck you wont be seeing me too much after a couple of tucson tourneys. ...if any of that shit even happens.

SRWILSON

10-07-2002, 10:19 AM

Mask the Kara demon, out of a dash for example!

NIN_CrimzinTerry

10-07-2002, 10:23 PM

i get it...like you can mask it off c. lk too, i saw it in vid LOL that shit is really too good...

al if you can do that shit without masking it and not have a lp come out you ARE THE MAN dude lol you gots to show me cause i dont believe you:p

im outi

Roberth

lolo603

10-07-2002, 10:59 PM

kara shun goku satsu:
Jap, Jap, fwd+Strong, Short, Fierce

properties-wise, it connects to players w/ their back turned towards u (e.g. after a long range s.Roundhouse)...

same goes w/ other grab SAs... after Alex's Fierce flashchop, it can be combo into SA1... after Necro's Fierce hook, it can be combo into SA2... i guess after 'eating' those moves, it gives the player a properties of STUN for a very short moment...

max6366

10-08-2002, 07:38 AM

Ok the clk does not mask the kara demon ask srwilson for more explaination too lazy to explain now...

kriptonx

10-08-2002, 09:18 AM

OK for some strange reason when I use the Raging Demon on Gill he sometimes grabs me. Need some help please. :(

lolo603

10-08-2002, 10:28 AM

Originally posted by kriptonx
OK for some strange reason when I use the Raging Demon on Gill he sometimes grabs me. Need some help please. :(

not only Gill... i have seen other characters that grab Shun Goku Satsu easily as long as the move is not executed at 0 distance...
maybe it works for all characters in the game... not sure thou...

Sandman

10-08-2002, 10:33 AM

Originally posted by SRWILSON
Mask the Kara demon, out of a dash for example!

I think I have seen this in some matches,akuma/gouki does a dash and then does a raging demon out of nowhere.

I do you do this?????

NIN_CrimzinTerry

10-08-2002, 11:22 AM

Originally posted by max6366
Ok the clk does not mask the kara demon ask srwilson for more explaination too lazy to explain now...

why doesnt it??? i have it in a vid...if you want i can send it to you...the c.lk didnt hit though it was blocked...

and if it doesnt then that means he just did kara cancel f+mp after a c.lk...

im outi

Roberth

SRWILSON

10-08-2002, 02:45 PM

Originally posted by Sandman

I think I have seen this in some matches,akuma/gouki does a dash and then does a raging demon out of nowhere.

I do you do this?????

I do the dash demon quite regularly the idea is to do the demon command towards the end of the dash then the demon comes straight out with no limbs showing.

Kara dash demon you do in a similar fashion just a case of a extra button really f+mp instead of just f really.

Wael -Nin Crimson is right I know what he means akuma does just dash then cr shorts into a instant kara demon with no limb animation inbetween.

CrazyDazed

10-08-2002, 04:07 PM

Try this setup for Kara Raging Demon

cr.Forward XX Short Hurricane Kick, Jab (reset), dash, f+MP (kara) XX Raging Demon

the last 3 parts of the combo is very tricky. Let me break it down on how you do this:

Toward, Toward, (while dashing) Jab, Jab, (end dash), Toward+Strong, Short, Fierce

It should look like Akuma is dashing in, raising his arm as if to do the overhead, but that DOES not hit, instead, that overhead animation is interrupted by Raging Demon (because you hit Short, Fierce to complete the command for it), and you should be right NEXT to your opponent for grab. They CANT escape from it.

Dig?

max6366

10-09-2002, 05:36 AM

Hey wilson u remember me?? lol!!!

ok for gouki's masking stuff: the clk (without dashing first u know that one srwilson) DOES NOT MASK ANYTHING the motion is like clk ->lpmplp(very fast very hard timing) ->lk hp the kl in this motion is just here as a trap it does not help masking the rd cause it's Crouching lk and when u do Clk lp lp at least ONE lp is visible not lik ewhen u do standing lk(where the 2 lp are hidden).
As for the one with the dash it's just another variation dash(lp lp during dash anim) clk ->mp ->lk hp. But u already know that steve it's just for the new players. BTW coll seeing other players playing gouki and not all OH I HAVE DISCOVERED URIEN YESTERDAY THANKS TOKIDO PRATCICING AGAINST CPU her no justin wong an dthe us 3s team humhum.
ok guys next tim if u are good boys i'll put a kara throw kara demon video on the net :cool:

max6366

10-09-2002, 05:44 AM

Originally posted by CrazyDazed
Try this setup for Kara Raging Demon

cr.Forward XX Short Hurricane Kick, Jab (reset), dash, f+MP (kara) XX Raging Demon

the last 3 parts of the combo is very tricky. Let me break it down on how you do this:

Toward, Toward, (while dashing) Jab, Jab, (end dash), Toward+Strong, Short, Fierce

It should look like Akuma is dashing in, raising his arm as if to do the overhead, but that DOES not hit, instead, that overhead animation is interrupted by Raging Demon (because you hit Short, Fierce to complete the command for it), and you should be right NEXT to your opponent for grab. They CANT escape from it.

Dig?

U STEALER!!!! THIS IS MBARRECK'S TACTICS INC lool seriously this one is nice BUT just try one variation to make it cooler instead of kara demon just UOH and then kara demon ^^ u'll see it works (that empror[3rd] inc hahaha)

SRWILSON

10-09-2002, 06:07 AM

Originally posted by max6366

U STEALER!!!! THIS IS MBARRECK'S TACTICS INC lool seriously this one is nice BUT just try one variation to make it cooler instead of kara demon just UOH and then kara demon ^^ u'll see it works (that empror[3rd] inc hahaha)

Lmao I was doing both those demon things before M barreck even played sf3 when he was still a KOF bum ^_^. both those demon things UOH thing though you won't see it from me that much but I do do it the odd time and as for the cr mk - lk tatsu - jab - dash demon / kara demon whatever I used to do that before M barreck ever played sf 3 so wouldnt that make it copyright from me? =P just kiddin but serious wael its a common tactic alot of players use.

Wael im talkin about the dash version that Nin Crimson is refering to in the Japanese MATCH vids.

Monkey

10-09-2002, 06:35 AM

Okay, how much time to you have before the f+mp hits the oppoent? I have seen people do the Kara Demon on vids and such but when I try it, the f+mp always hits one hit before the Demon starts. I'm guessing that I am not doing it fast enough, or properly. I just f+mp then the Demon as fast as I can. Is that right?

-monkey

SRWILSON

10-09-2002, 06:47 AM

The idea is to do the kara demon command LP LP F+MP LK HP pretty quick and the demon comes out the first frames of akumas arm raising for the chop.

Monkey

10-09-2002, 06:58 AM

Originally posted by SRWILSON
The idea is to do the kara demon command LP LP F+MP LK HP pretty quick and the demon comes out the first frames of akumas arm raising for the chop.

Good shit. Thanks for answering. ^_^

-monkey

lolo603

10-09-2002, 01:32 PM

Originally posted by NIN_CrimzinTerry

why doesnt it??? i have it in a vid...if you want i can send it to you...the c.lk didnt hit though it was blocked...

and if it doesnt then that means he just did kara cancel f+mp after a c.lk...

im outi

Roberth

the c.Short is not part of the kara Shun Goku Satsu... it was BEFORE the SA... just a setup to makes ppl thinks that they have to block the next move as well... thus got grabbed by the kara-SA...

mk master (503)

10-16-2003, 10:54 PM

for the st roundhouse cancel to rd when do you want to cancel asap or ounce it hits them when is the proper time and the range can you cancel it the whole round house length or only when your pretty close

SrWilson3S

10-18-2003, 10:22 AM

Cancel as soon as you hit the RH.

Inigma

10-21-2003, 03:13 PM

One thing about Demon I never bothered learning (Property wise)...

I am sure that Demon is supposed to have some invincibility in the activation right? But to me it seems that when you cancel into a RD from a move that touches the opponent it loses the invincibility... Like I would do standing roundhouse to bait an air parry then when I see it I activate the RD when they are about 1/2 an inch off the ground, they hit a button after they parry so you see the attack coming out during the super freeze and somehow I still get hit out of it? But when I do a dashing RD against a jump-in I go cleanly through the attack?? Does anyone else have experienced this?

SrWilson3S

10-21-2003, 05:33 PM

To Nin Crimzin

The cr short - kara SGS Can hit from either a blocked or hitting cr short since if the cr short hits, in the time your doing the kara cancel they recover from the connected cr short in time ready to recieve the demon.
Ive hit it from both situations a cr short being blocked or hitting and landed the demon sucessfully many times either way.