Monster: Combo, Strat, and Game Information

[Emil]

c.A, c.B, c.C (dc), @ c.C, qcb+B x C, s.B, s.C, qcb+B xx qcb+C, s.B, s.C, qcb+B

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=J7HJGGH6

d+A, d+B, d+C(1 hit), jump (A, B, C), should be in corner now, land Ax3, B, C, activate Freedom, qcb+B, B(air), qcb+B, hcf+A(switch sides), hcf+A(switch sides), qcb+B, B, qcb+B, hcf+Ax2, repeat.

Rogueyoshi came up with that one. If you are going to be using supers in the combo, then get rid of all those jabs, because they affect the damage scaling significantly. If you don't use supers, it seems that the jabs result in more damage in the end.

[Shin Touyokouzan]

ummm, does anyone else feel like with the new update, the back dash change killed what was neat and fun about this game?

i mean.... i normally dont complain about changes, and i just play with them and adapt, but this just was not needed in my opinion.

I dont see why it is such a problem. The 449 wasnt needed at all in the first place and alot of the jap testers said that it would be better as a back dash instead. One simple thing didnt make the game less fun. No offense but i just think its your inability to accept the changes made to the game

[Emil]

They need to make Othello more intelligent. Currently he seems to be the most braindead character in the game. Easiest timing for combos and usually seems to involve jumping around the screen until something hits, into easy combo for 50% damage.

[Zaelar]

Using an absurd stops you from getting any more meter for the rest of the game.

My siely freedom combo no longer works, and she can no longer cancel j.a into j.a.

EDIT: Siely is done. You can air activate out of pretty much anything she does in the air, and it seems like her ground combo does less damage.

[Emil]

My siely freedom combo no longer works, and she can no longer cancel j.a into j.a.

Why do you need to combo two j.A's? What is the combo?

Edit: I quit this game. I just realized that this game really just doesn't reward intelligent gameplay at all. YOu can jump around and do other shit randomly with no purpose because the risk/reward is just too much on the favour of jumping around to hit a combo, then actually jumping around with an intelligent purpose behind it. I don't see the priority of the moves being fixed at all. This game just promotes random unintelligent rushdown. The only characters that seem to require intelligence to use are Maya and Orju, the others can be played pretty braindead.

Edit2: The only intelligence you can argue for this game is, paying attention to the Points counter but that's it. Back to KoF2k2 and 98 for me..

[aqualung]

I dont see why it is such a problem. The 449 wasnt needed at all in the first place and alot of the jap testers said that it would be better as a back dash instead. One simple thing didnt make the game less fun. No offense but i just think its your inability to accept the changes made to the game

Thats fine. You can think what you like. I never sed it was needed. I sed it was fun. Its not "a simple thing" as you say either. Block strings into 449 overheads were fun and dope as shit to start off combos, keep pressure on people, and added a different element to the gameplay imo. I think its what set it apart from other games like this.

If I played Siely, i wouldnt care. But i play characters that needed a way for a quick good overhead outside of the predicable ones in the movesets.

99 is ok in its place, but its just not as quick and not nearly as hard to block. Now the way the back dash is, who would stand still to block an air attack anyway? Backdash threw it.

It feels like a turtle game now, and thats boring.

I never sed anything other than my opinion. I think everyones entitled to that.

[Zaelar]

I wasn't referring to any specific combo, I was just stating that she can't cancel j.a into j.a.

[Spooty Whiteboy]

I dont see why it is such a problem. The 449 wasnt needed at all in the first place and alot of the jap testers said that it would be better as a back dash instead. One simple thing didnt make the game less fun. No offense but i just think its your inability to accept the changes made to the game

Delga needed 449+B. It was one of his best options during oki. It also was an outstanding poke. I am saddened hard by this update :'(

[MAGUS1234]

this update just slowed the game down sooo much. Orthello is so dumb now, walk and wait. Delga is ass, and characters lost what was fun about them in an effort to balance the game....whitch in turn made it boring.

And the network wont work for me....."downgrade"

[Emil]

this update just slowed the game down sooo much. Orthello is so dumb now, walk and wait. Delga is ass, and characters lost what was fun about them in an effort to balance the game....whitch in turn made it boring.

And the network wont work for me....."downgrade"

Walk and wait? He was always about jump and combo.

This backdash seems somewhat retarded, i just fought someone who just backdashed almost the entire match.

[MAGUS1234]

Walk and wait? He was always about jump and combo.

This backdash seems somewhat retarded, i just fought someone who just backdashed almost the entire match.

why jump he has the best range in the game, just play footsies, use his antiairs if they jump. Get his block string and mix it up....there is no need to jump, especially in a game where you cant block up there. Of course the fact that he has good jump ins and such long jump doesnt hurt but there is no need to risk it.

[Emil]

why jump he has the best range in the game, just play footsies, use his antiairs if they jump. Get his block string and mix it up....

The only problem with this is that his normals are slow.

there is no need to jump, especially in a game where you cant block up there. Of course the fact that he has good jump ins and such long jump doesnt hurt but there is no need to risk it.

Yeah, that's what I believe too, but that's not how he seems to be played...the risk/reward is too much in favor of jumping in for a combo(due to poor anti-airs).

[FullMetalRoss]

Delga needed 449+B. It was one of his best options during oki. It also was an outstanding poke. I am saddened hard by this update :'(

I'm glad at least one other person gets where I am coming from. (ALSO BURSTING DELGA COMBOS IS DUMB especially since the lack of 449+B took out alot of his get started rushing down game.)

[Zaelar]

So its not as bad as I thought. I still say othello is too good though.

Siely's 623b seems to be working better now. It still gets stuffed by meaties, so I guess its just faster, which I think was already said.

If you both can active and your opponent bursts out of your combo, if you have more points you can cancel your combo into activate for a power break it seems. Position dependent of course.

[Tizoc]

^Pressing the 4th button/D button.

OK so I tried the game and it's cool so far. Is there a story mode or something?

At any rate I wish to learn Delga, the red dragon/reptilian guy. When I tried out his special moves I was rather surprised with them.

One thing I do know about Delga, is that if you hold down the 3rd button (Storng Attack), he will charge his flame breath attack and after a few seconds, if u release the button, he does a very damaging short range fire breath.

BTW can I use an arcade stick/board or PS2 Pad to play this game?

[rogueyoshi]

Is there a story mode or something?
i think thats something to be added in a later update.

BTW can I use an arcade stick/board or PS2 Pad to play this game?
yep, you shouldnt have any problems, either use config.exe or go to the options in-game. make sure you set player 1 and player 2's controls to be the same when playing online.

[Tizoc]

^Sweet, though I would like to also ask this;
if I have an arcade stick that connects to a PS2, can I use an adapter to use that stick with my PC?

[rogueyoshi]

^Sweet, though I would like to also ask this;
if I have an arcade stick that connects to a PS2, can I use an adapter to use that stick with my PC?
yep, thats my setup.

[Shin Touyokouzan]

this update just slowed the game down sooo much. Orthello is so dumb now, walk and wait. Delga is ass, and characters lost what was fun about them in an effort to balance the game....whitch in turn made it boring.

And the network wont work for me....."downgrade"

Thats weird cause the network has been working really well for me

[Spooty Whiteboy]

I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this, but I thought someone might be interested.

Since supers have the same damage reduction as whatever the % in the combo was when the super was used; you can do more damage with the super if you use a move that has less damage reduction than the super normally has.

EXAMPLE:

Delga's hcf+C super does 80% damage normally.

Delga's B does 95% damage normally.

If you use the combo: B, hcf+C then both the B and the hcf+C have 95% damage.

The only time I found this info useful with Delga was off a meaty cr.B, dash toward xx hcf+C. But maybe other characters can use it better.

[Xenozip.]

Maya still does pretty good damage because most of her damage comes from ground combos. You don't get the opportunity to burst until after she's already done 3k+, and if you don't burst at all she can do 4k+.

Here's a quick combo replay (http://members.cox.net/ldu_808/maya-mid-bnb.rpy).

Also, I hadn't even noticed that her monster blow super adds points regardless of hit or whiff. That's pretty dope. Good way to build points for a power break.

Anyone know what her Absurd does?

[N_paul]

The wiki says that it power breaks any attack on screen.

[Dandy J]

Hey uh can someone please merge the 3 different Monster topics on FGD into one? Seriously this is just silly.

[Rioting Soul]

Hey uh can someone please merge the 3 different Monster topics on FGD into one? Seriously this is just silly.

This one should just be moved to the strategy forums if it's crowding FGD. Merge the other two and keep it in FGD.

[Spooty Whiteboy]

Just so you guys know. I don't believe that gravity was increased (maybe just slightly); but each character actually weighs the same now. It makes Delga's throw timings easier now.

[Tyram]

the game seems realy cool. I wanna play. how can i get the game? help please.

[Xenozip.]

This one should just be moved to the strategy forums if it's crowding FGD. Merge the other two and keep it in FGD.
I agree.
Just so you guys know. I don't believe that gravity was increased (maybe just slightly); but each character actually weighs the same now. It makes Delga's throw timings easier now.

Hmm, interesting. I think you're right, I think move properties were just given less float, which makes comboing harder since you're not popping them into the air as much per hit.

[Leebee Link]

Here's some random combo replays i did right after updating. I know the endings to the Ryougen and Rail combos are crap but I was lazy.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=72TPV8NQ

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=Z58ELWY3

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=DG9STO1R

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=45ML69J8

If there's some better place to host these, then just PM me or something.

[Xenozip.]

Found a few minor glitches (1.0b).

Orju Whiff (http://members.cox.net/ldu_808/orju-whiffthrow.rpy) - Orju whiffs his backward throw (4c) and "slides" nearly midway across the screen.

Ryuogen Whiff (http://members.cox.net/ldu_808/ryougen-whiffabsurd.rpy) - Ryuogen performs his Absurd against a cornered opponent and the absurd whiffs, dealing 0 damage.

[edit]:

Katze Whiff (http://members.cox.net/ldu_808/katze-whiffsuper.rpy) - Not a glitch really, but Katze's super whiffs in this replay because it connected with an extended hittable box. The following supers whiff because of a low-level power break, only the first part of the combo connects and then the final hit whiffs because the counter hit 0.

[Xenozip.]

Another glitch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJR8Y9qGKhw

As the description says, I connected either a shift or some other special move during a super (or shift) screen-freeze. Not sure exactly what I did. But basically it was either a super or shift screen freeze that got stuffed, and this is the result.

At first glance it just looks like the game isn't rendering visual effects properly, but if you'll notice I can shift but I don't actually enter the shift mode, and Bash Combo supers don't cost stock while Monster Blow supers do.

Weird glitch.

[Melfice_Cyrum]

ummm, does anyone else feel like with the new update, the back dash change killed what was neat and fun about this game?

i mean.... i normally dont complain about changes, and i just play with them and adapt, but this just was not needed in my opinion.

I admit, after the update, there were quite a few changes, and some balancing too.

Biggest example is my all-time fave, Orju.

Originally, on 1.0a, you'd combo, shift, then activate Orihime and freeze the opponent with C, then just keep hitting C and shave their life off. Now you can only hit them twice with C before it makes them hit the floor. Much more balanced.

Also, his Super EMR disappates rather quickly. In addition, his normal EMR disappates almost immediately after a successful C strike. Originally, you could activate EMR then do a combo, ending with C, and cancel into his anti-air. Because of the ring disappation, it's not as useful.

Other characters had some broken moves fixed. Now Rail's spirit has to return to him before he can throw it again, which keeps him from spamming it.

As for the Absurd removing the shift guage, that seems too much like Guilty Gear for me. Though, given the ridiculousness of some of the Absurds, and the ability of some of them to turn the tables on the entire match, the change makes sense. However, they need to fix the distorted text, IMO.

[MAGUS1234]

.snip.


problem is most absurds arent game altering, even if they were 85% of them are not worth giving up bar plus 4 bars...lame :(

rail got busted on the most IMHO, he is just not playable to me. His absurd is still good kill potential for third round, but his spirit got axed so bad......although I think in monster you can do the spam qcfb tactic

[Melfice_Cyrum]

Oh, and here's my 2 cents on bursting:

Bursting should have only ONE of the two following sets of properties:

-Adds no Super Stock
-Normal Gauge recovery time
-Non-punishable

OR

-Adds a Super Stock
- Double/Triple Gauge recovery time
-Punishable

Now, those of you in this argument might be confused as why I chose these properties. The answer, is quite simple: If you remove Burst's addition to the Super Stock, AND increase recovery time, AND make it punishable, then Bursting in itself is a useless mechanic, since it would be simpler to just eat a combo, then risking Bursting and getting powerbroken, unless you have a significant advantage Point-wise. Even then, the fact it doesn't earn you a Super Stock makes it even less useful.

Plus, as of right now, you can only Burst in the air, not on the ground. Better start practicing your ground combo guys :wgrin:

On another note, I have noticed that Siely is getting less and less useful, and as someone stated earlier, she is so meter dependent, that bursting to break her combo/super makes her far less useful now, considering her entire game relies on her in the air.

[UltraDavid]

I'm not playing this anymore. It seems too busy to me, like there's too much in the way of exercising effective strategy, too many variables, too many situations where you have to guess. That's not really my bag.

[Spooty Whiteboy]

I'm not playing this anymore. It seems too busy to me, like there's too much in the way of exercising effective strategy, too many variables, too many situations where you have to guess. That's not really my bag.

You play 3S and say you don't like guessing?

[UltraDavid]

You play 3S and say you don't like guessing?
Believe me, I really don't like the parry. I only play 3S because it's the most popular, has the most competition. Oh, how much I would rather be playing Super Turbo or Hyper Fighting.

[Xenozip.]

I'm not playing this anymore. It seems too busy to me, like there's too much in the way of exercising effective strategy, too many variables, too many situations where you have to guess. That's not really my bag. Maybe you just had some bad experiences. The people who I've played with that have gotten *really* good tend to exercise strategy all the time -- which has become much more apparent with the addition of bursting.

There's actually not a whole lot of guessing against most characters because option selecting really does beat most mixups.

People who are still relatively new to this game, or just haven't advanced their skill levels; they tend to rely far too much on rushdown strings and shift->super combos and not enough implementation of strategy. But like I said, there's a pool of players who've gotten really good at doing more than just mindless attacking.

Of course, I also see a lot more potential in this game for certain characters that I don't feel have been properly explored yet. But alas I naturally gravitate to the gimmicky characters (Maya/Orju).

Fortunately the game is still in development, so I do hope that people who "quit" this game check back occasionally just to see if the new changes are to their liking.

[Shin Touyokouzan]

Believe me, I really don't like the parry. I only play 3S because it's the most popular, has the most competition. Oh, how much I would rather be playing Super Turbo or Hyper Fighting.

I so agree with you on the super turbo or hyper fighting <3. Anyway. I seriously think peopel should try to stick it out and help us make this game better -D

[Emil]

I need some more solid Maya combos. What is the point of using her qcb+C(x3), the damage is pitiful for three stocks. I discovered this strange combo with no stock:

In corner:
crouch C, f f+C, qcb+A, A, f f+B, qcb+A, A f f+B, qcb+A, A, qcb+A

Then after this, I guess you can activate if you want, do super, although if you plan to use supers int he combo, it would probably be beter to use a variation of that combo that does not use jabs. However, it seems that to be able to get all those repetitions about in the combo I mentioned, you have to do it the way I set it up. If you start with crouch A, crouch B, crouch C for example, you get pushed back more resulting ins ome parts of the combo hitting later than usual, preventing you from being able to continue the loops.

[Tizoc]

Short little Othello combo I recorded, sorry for the quality-
Click me (http://files.filefront.com/Othelloavi/;6697195;;/fileinfo.html)
^Is there any way I could've made that combo do more damage?

[Xenozip.]

Made a little replay of a Maya burst bait (http://members.cox.net/ldu_808/maya-burstbait2.rpy). It's confirmable since you're able to BDC on reaction to the flash.

[Melfice_Cyrum]

Ugh...I just realized how much I suck at Monster.

I was playing Orju, like I usually do, and made the unfortunate mistake of challenging not only Xenozip, but Xiii. And seeing how badly I got beaten just makes me question if I should play.

I know, I know, seems kinda silly. But I can barely get anyone to fight me (damned netplay), and the only one who can are the ones with a match record of 200-400+ matches, and well over 100 wins, versus my measily 12 matches and only 2 wins.

I dunno, hopefully when I get the USB cord for my PS2 controller it'll be easier to play. I hate using a keyboard sometimes. That, and I just dunno if I have the skill to even come close to anyone >_<

It's not your guy's fault for being so good, I just feel like crap compared to you guys.

[Emil]

It's not your guy's fault for being so good, I just feel like crap compared to you guys.

Just because you're not good and got beat by someone better, doesn't mean they are good necessarily. Just practice more, learn to react to the opponent...to think about what you're doing before you're doing it, consequences of your actions, paying attention to habits of the opponent, etc. This seems to be what most "bad" players lack. Just be intelligent (although it's recommended to have combos memorized and used WHEN HIT CONFIRMED).

[Spooty Whiteboy]

Ugh...I just realized how much I suck at Monster.

I was playing Orju, like I usually do, and made the unfortunate mistake of challenging not only Xenozip, but Xiii. And seeing how badly I got beaten just makes me question if I should play.

I know, I know, seems kinda silly. But I can barely get anyone to fight me (damned netplay), and the only one who can are the ones with a match record of 200-400+ matches, and well over 100 wins, versus my measily 12 matches and only 2 wins.

I dunno, hopefully when I get the USB cord for my PS2 controller it'll be easier to play. I hate using a keyboard sometimes. That, and I just dunno if I have the skill to even come close to anyone >_<

It's not your guy's fault for being so good, I just feel like crap compared to you guys.

Dude. We were all crap at first. Seriously, if you watched some of our early matches...you would cry. Most of us just started at the same time; so we all got good together. You just have to keep trying. And use the IRC room for tips.

[Melfice_Cyrum]

Dude. We were all crap at first. Seriously, if you watched some of our early matches...you would cry. Most of us just started at the same time; so we all got good together. You just have to keep trying. And use the IRC room for tips.

IRC room? O_o

[Spooty Whiteboy]

IRC room? O_o

IRC is a chat client. Once you get it then go on the EFnet server. Then the chat room is #8105Monster

[MiLky]

Dude. We were all crap at first. Seriously, if you watched some of our early matches...you would cry. Most of us just started at the same time; so we all got good together. You just have to keep trying. And use the IRC room for tips.

Yeah, some of you got alot better in the last week. I haven't played much since the new patch, used to be able to hold my own somewhat. Got raped yesterday. GG's to Magus, last time I played you it was pretty even, seriously need to practice up if I want to play you guys now.

[MAGUS1234]

^^gg's

sucks everyone who plays is from EC though.....

I prolly shouldnt ask here but how do you connect to a server in Mirc??

everytime I try it says connection refused?

[irioku]

I'm not sure if I did something wrong or not, but I went to the japanese site and downloaded the game and the update. I think I updated it, I tried to start the game and I get some alert that says "??????? 'monster.exe' ??????? 00432333 ?????? 010001FC ??????????????????" and then some window comes up with like a dark sky background but nothing to click, etc. Any ideas? o_O

[SuicidalGrandpa]

I've unfortunately stopped playing until they fix the network issues. Not being able to connect to anyone sucks, and the main game isn't fun enough for me to spend any time playing.

[Xenozip.]

I'm not sure if I did something wrong or not, but I went to the japanese site and downloaded the game and the update. I think I updated it, I tried to start the game and I get some alert that says "??????? 'monster.exe' ??????? 00432333 ?????? 010001FC ??????????????????" and then some window comes up with like a dark sky background but nothing to click, etc. Any ideas? o_O I had this error when I uninstalled my video card and tried to run the game (don't ask).

So, it probably has something to do with your video card.

- What kind of video card do you have?
- Do you have the latest drivers?
- Do you have the latest direct x?
- Do you have direct draw/direct3d?

I've unfortunately stopped playing until they fix the network issues. Not being able to connect to anyone sucks, and the main game isn't fun enough for me to spend any time playing. Behind a router? Need to forward port 2300 TCP for people to be able to join you.

If you're unable to join other people's games, then you might want to check your firewall settings (assuming you have one).

If you're running windows with service pack 2, then you can right click the monster.exe and in one of the tabs you can allow the game to be immune to the firewall settings.

And uhh.. if you've been playing but the lag sucks, then yeah they need to work on the netcode a bit more.

[MAGUS1234]

^^ I turned off my firewall, and I dont think I have a router...just a dsl modem. And I still cant connect to most ppl.

[Celestial Okami]

When Orju's qcf+C (236c) causes a powerbreak, it deals no damage. Rules of the game I guess, where powerbreak hits deal no damage, but gawd I HATE WHEN THAT HAPPENS!!

I also have connectivity issues even when I use the college wireless network at school (I don't seem to have lag as a result of wireless because I have had excellent connectivity and almost no lag on many matches over wireless). Its an effect of the game, not unique to anyone.

[Xenozip.]

Also, people, here's a general FYI.

When you forward ports, make sure it's for the right IP address that you're using on your computer.

start->run->cmd
ipconfig

The IP listed is the IP you need to forward the ports for (port 2300 TCP). You can also use that IP for Monster's "Direct-IP Intrude" function for playing over the network with some one on the same router or hub.

However, if you're trying to direct-ip intrude with some one not on your network, you need to use the connection's IP, which you can find at http://www.whatismyip.com/.

^^ I turned off my firewall, and I dont think I have a router...just a dsl modem. And I still cant connect to most ppl. That's strange. I only have trouble connecting to a few people, and I assume it's because they don't have their ports open or they left their wait mode on while they messed around in training mode (or whatever).

[Azagtoth]

Fucked around in 1.00d and found this midscreen-only Monster Othello combo with 3 stocks off of a forward throw (works with back throw as well, but damage is scaled a bit). Total damage is 7223 and it's centered off of monster bullet juggling. Works on Katze for sure, but I haven't tested it on anyone else.

Throw, shift, cr.b xx qcf+b xx dp+c, b+c, f+c, b+c, df+c, dp+a xx qcf+c, b+c, f+c, b+c, f+c, dp+a xx qcf+c.

Each time you use monster bullet in the combo, it powers up until you get to the last one, which comes out as some crazy finisher.

You could also just do throw, shift, cr. b xx qcf+b xx qcb+c for a little over 6000 damage and much less effort, but that's no fun. =P

[MAGUS1234]

The more othello and katze get toned down the more I think Maya is the best in the game. Maybe im jus gettin lucky but Ive gotten really good results from most characters....delga being the exception

[FullMetalRoss]

awww sad delga is fun, you just have to think alot while playing and not get owned by maya.... heh.

[MAGUS1234]

I play maya....

[FullMetalRoss]

yeah I know, I remember we had some pretty good games, you taught me alot about freedom maya, helping my game against her immensely, I played someone called insight last night who was whooping on me with freedom Maya, then I figured out a better game plan and things got better.

[Shin Touyokouzan]

I played some west coast maya in a shit connection... i couldnt move <_<

[Darkstalker]

Haven't been playing online cause lag is atrocious, but I have been playing at campus with pals. I'm starting to see the awesomeness of double jump + 236 B for Rail. It puts him out of reach of most standard attacks, and does a poke. Course, you need points, but still useful. Especially in you have your opponent in the corner and jump backwards.

[Xenozip.]

The more othello and katze get toned down the more I think Maya is the best in the game. Maybe im jus gettin lucky but Ive gotten really good results from most characters....delga being the exception Try T-Maya against Delga.

[MAGUS1234]

I dont like T-maya, but it might be better vs delga.

Im insight51, thats the name I use on most other forums....

vs ryouga, body clone fucks him over so bad.
vs othelpo and katze ground spike helps more.

I think Im the only F-maya player WC. I have yet to play another maya cept xeno once..

[Harem]

I dont like T-maya, but it might be better vs delga.

Im insight51, thats the name I use on most other forums....

vs ryouga, body clone fucks him over so bad.
vs othelpo and katze ground spike helps more.

I think Im the only F-maya player WC. I have yet to play another maya cept xeno once..

You're Insight?

Your Maya and Katze are pretty nice. GJ.

[Spooty Whiteboy]

I dont like T-maya, but it might be better vs delga.

There isn't a might here. Take it from me. T-Maya is almost the perfect counter to Delga. It's actually kinda fucking stupid.

[Xiii]

I feel the same way, a textbook T-Maya forces certain characters to just stand in the corner and play the waiting game. You really can't jump out of most of her attacks and setups and your only hope is Shift, but after shifting, once you lose your momentum, it's back to the waiting game again.

[Xenozip.]

I dont like T-maya, but it might be better vs delga.

Im insight51, thats the name I use on most other forums....

vs ryouga, body clone fucks him over so bad.
vs othelpo and katze ground spike helps more.

I think Im the only F-maya player WC. I have yet to play another maya cept xeno once.. We had a few good games, but it was really just too slow. It'd be a lot better if we weren't gaming cross-country. Wish we could play without lag.

But yeah, T-Maya definitely destroys some characters. I don't like T-Maya's shifted qcb+a punch or dp+a ground spike, but the shield definitely makes up for it. Shifted qcf+b shadow would be so much better if it lasted a little longer. I never seem to really use it because the shield seems more important.

M-Maya seems like crap. The shifted benefits don't nearly make up for the loss of shield. Although shifted qcf+b shadow seems kinda good.

You have any combos for F-Maya?

[MAGUS1234]

We had a few good games, but it was really just too slow. It'd be a lot better if we weren't gaming cross-country. Wish we could play without lag.

But yeah, T-Maya definitely destroys some characters. I don't like T-Maya's shifted qcb+a punch or dp+a ground spike, but the shield definitely makes up for it. Shifted qcf+b shadow would be so much better if it lasted a little longer. I never seem to really use it because the shield seems more important.

M-Maya seems like crap. The shifted benefits don't nearly make up for the loss of shield. Although shifted qcf+b shadow seems kinda good.

You have any combos for F-Maya?

I have waaay too many combos for f-maya. She is so broken, Ill make a replay and send it K?

[Xenozip.]

I have waaay too many combos for f-maya. She is so broken, Ill make a replay and send it K? Sure thing. Sounds awesome. I'll PM my e-mail address to you.

[KING]

i just got a stupid glitch when i was trying stuff on the AI...

I was Orju, and the AI was set to Katze. I did the combo'ed into the Blue Ring super, and smacked him, but I couldn't! He could still hit me, but my hits just whiffed.

wtf?

[Shin Touyokouzan]

OK for those monster players out there. We are holding a "mock" TOurny in IRC tonight. Its gonna be at 7 pm(est). It isnt a real tourny its just for people to see where they stand and for people to get some real practice in.

[MAGUS1234]

I cant get IRC to work.

[dori.]

I played someone from SRK this evening, I forgot his username but he's from FL and used F-Katze.
Thanks for helping me practice.

I need some help with Ryougen combos as I only know like 2 effective ones:
Lx2,M,H, dash cancel crouching H (can this be followed up by anything?)

c.Lx2,c.M,c.H, jump M,M qcf+B.

I'm using him in Tranquility.

[Xenozip.]

Lx2,M,H, dash cancel crouching H (can this be followed up by anything?) 2aabc 662c 236b
Does the same damage his the other one.

If you have Shift stocked you can extend it:
2aabc 662c 236b shift cancel 5c 662c 214a (hits otg) 236c

If you have a super stocked you can extend his other one.
2aabc j.B j.B 236b 236c 236b

And if you have shift stocked but don't want to burn super:
2aabc 662c 236b shift cancel 5c j.B j.B

[Melfice_Cyrum]

We had a few good games, but it was really just too slow. It'd be a lot better if we weren't gaming cross-country. Wish we could play without lag.

But yeah, T-Maya definitely destroys some characters. I don't like T-Maya's shifted qcb+a punch or dp+a ground spike, but the shield definitely makes up for it. Shifted qcf+b shadow would be so much better if it lasted a little longer. I never seem to really use it because the shield seems more important.

M-Maya seems like crap. The shifted benefits don't nearly make up for the loss of shield. Although shifted qcf+b shadow seems kinda good.

God, tell me about it, I end up turtling, and doing my best to stay out of the corner while Maya goes to town. It does seem interesting that she is slowly moving up the list as far as usefullness now. Her shield even makes a fight against Ryougen easier, despite his range advantage...

damned staff pokes :sweat:

[rogueyoshi]

I have waaay too many combos for f-maya. She is so broken
that's an understatement dude, in addition to the combos, her mixups are too good. on wakeup she can do psuedo-unblockables and you cant even try to backdash cause its difficult to tell which way to do it because of the teleports and the clone.

also, very very good games. you kinda confused me with the name insight, cause i remember playing you with the name magus :)

[MAGUS1234]

^^ya good shit man, I was(am) using insight cause I was trying t get some dudes from another forum to play, thats my title there

[tl_crow]

Is it well known that Delga can cancel Charged C (both running and standing) into any special move, including his command grab, while still in the charging animation? I didn't see it mentioned anywhere here or on the wiki. I thought it was a semi-neat trick for an otherwise shitty, shitty move.

Also, what's the highest non-shift combo one can do off of his command grab? I've been doing Grab->late jump early input j.a j.b-> aaaa-> 66A -> 632B and I've been really really liking it, but I didn't know if there was anything better. (sure there is) It works anywhere and I can always shift afterwards into another A series, though I'm also not sure what to do after that. Super never seems like a good idea because of damaging scaleing and I never seem to get all the hits I feel like I should.

[MiLky]

Is it well known that Delga can cancel Charged C (both running and standing) into any special move, including his command grab, while still in the charging animation? I didn't see it mentioned anywhere here or on the wiki. I thought it was a semi-neat trick for an otherwise shitty, shitty move.

Also, what's the highest non-shift combo one can do off of his command grab? I've been doing Grab->late jump early input j.a j.b-> aaaa-> 66A -> 632B and I've been really really liking it, but I didn't know if there was anything better. (sure there is) It works anywhere and I can always shift afterwards into another A series, though I'm also not sure what to do after that. Super never seems like a good idea because of damaging scaleing and I never seem to get all the hits I feel like I should.

After the command grab, do an immediate s.c xx to j.a, j.b, that does more damge and makes it easier to time. I have no internet until next month (at work now) so I haven't been playing much, but I think using less hits with b does better damage than the a string because of scaling. I'm sure spooty or someone can correct any mistakes I made here.

[Spooty Whiteboy]

Is it well known that Delga can cancel Charged C (both running and standing) into any special move, including his command grab, while still in the charging animation? I didn't see it mentioned anywhere here or on the wiki. I thought it was a semi-neat trick for an otherwise shitty, shitty move.

Also, what's the highest non-shift combo one can do off of his command grab? I've been doing Grab->late jump early input j.a j.b-> aaaa-> 66A -> 632B and I've been really really liking it, but I didn't know if there was anything better. (sure there is) It works anywhere and I can always shift afterwards into another A series, though I'm also not sure what to do after that. Super never seems like a good idea because of damaging scaleing and I never seem to get all the hits I feel like I should.

Non shift, non super:

41236+A, C, j.A, j.B, A, B, 66C, 623+B.

Technically it's (But it's too hard to use in lag):

41236+A, j.A, j.B, B, j.A, j.B, B, 66C, 623+B

EDIT: If you want a shift combo, then tell me the Shift you are using. I got different ones for the shifts.

[Xenozip.]

It's hot and spicey, like szechuan style!

[MAGUS1234]

Damn katzes super sometimes misses the last hit?....teh gay, needs to be fixed

[Tizoc]

So um......Delga & Othello strats plz? ....and can u plz use the QCF and like notations and not numbers if possible? Thanks

[Josh-TheFunkDOC]

Spootz: Actually, I use a slightly different variation of your B&B that's easier and does a little more damage:

41236A, 5B-j.A-j.B, 5B-66C-623B.

5C jacks up the damage scaling a bit too much.



Right now I've played around the most with Monster shift, and the combos are quite range-dependent. I'll upload some practical ones with it soon.

The other shifts don't really seem to have much to offer, aside from a decent corner custom in Freedom (5B-66A-623B, repeat a few times), and the nerfed command grabs especially bug me. I would love to hear any cool stuff with them!

And sup crow. =)

[Spooty Whiteboy]

Spootz: Actually, I use a slightly different variation of your B&B that's easier and does a little more damage:

41236A, 5B-j.A-j.B, 5B-66C-623B.

5C jacks up the damage scaling a bit too much.



Right now I've played around the most with Monster shift, and the combos are quite range-dependent. I'll upload some practical ones with it soon.

The other shifts don't really seem to have much to offer, aside from a decent corner custom in Freedom (5B-66A-623B, repeat a few times), and the nerfed command grabs especially bug me. I would love to hear any cool stuff with them!

That one does slightly more damage. I use the C because it is easier to time. Comboing with C makes the command grab timing easy as hell. Just press C as soon as possible; the rest falls together perfect.

And you get more damage if you go:

41236A xx B, j.A, j.B, A, B, 66C, 623B

I know combos with every shift if you need. And I have a few tricks that L3land, MaD', and myself have came up with.

Also, with Freedom you go (5B, 623B)xN, 5B, 66A, 41236A. Adding the 66A in the brackets lessens the total damage.

[Josh-TheFunkDOC]

Thanks a lot for all the help. =) Freedom is intriguing me more, time to experiment...

To all: http://hosted.filefront.com/rashreflection/ - Here's what I've figured out so far with Delga's Monster shift combos. As you can see, it changes a lot with the range. Any improvements would be appreciated!

[Spooty Whiteboy]

Thanks a lot for all the help. =) Freedom is intriguing me more, time to experiment...

To all: http://hosted.filefront.com/rashreflection/ - Here's what I've figured out so far with Delga's Monster shift combos. As you can see, it changes a lot with the range. Any improvements would be appreciated!

Ok. After I get off of work tonight. I'll post up some monster combos. But I gotta go right now. Those look pretty good though.

[Xenozip.]

Does M-Delga have a wall slam loop?

I haven't gotten around to testing it and I'm about to head out, but being that his shifted uppercut wall bounces I was thinking he might have one.

[Josh-TheFunkDOC]

Hopefully this hasn't been posted already...

Last night I learned from tl_crow that Delga's 623B is unblockable. Seriously. Before you all go completely apeshit though, remember:

1. You can crouch under it.

2. In Normal and Tranquility modes, it is punishable on hit.


However, obviously, this can still be pretty neat. Even in the above modes, you have shift & super cancels - the flame super actually does more damage at levels 1/2, for those who don't know. In Monster, 623B knocks down, but it's much slower and you can only combo from it if they're near the corner.

It is Freedom, then, where this move truly shines. It is just as fast as the normal/tranq version but launches into his powerful custom.

I need more match experience to be sure, but it's looking to me like you're going to land this mostly by inducing your opponent to poke or run in. Doesn't seem too good for mixups - there's pretty much no reason to block high against him, and if you think they'll jump/attack you're better off with a normal move.

All in all, I think it's an interesting discovery that is helpful but hardly game-breaking.

-Josh

[FullMetalRoss]

Does M-Delga have a wall slam loop?

I haven't gotten around to testing it and I'm about to head out, but being that his shifted uppercut wall bounces I was thinking he might have one.

if you space it well you get three loops, maybe more three is the most I've done and that was back in A so it might have changed, the spacing is really specific though.

[Shin Touyokouzan]

Hopefully this hasn't been posted already...

Last night I learned from tl_crow that Delga's 623B is unblockable. Seriously. Before you all go completely apeshit though, remember:

1. You can crouch under it.

2. In Normal and Tranquility modes, it is punishable on hit.


However, obviously, this can still be pretty neat. Even in the above modes, you have shift & super cancels - the flame super actually does more damage at levels 1/2, for those who don't know. In Monster, 623B knocks down, but it's much slower and you can only combo from it if they're near the corner.

It is Freedom, then, where this move truly shines. It is just as fast as the normal/tranq version but launches into his powerful custom.

I need more match experience to be sure, but it's looking to me like you're going to land this mostly by inducing your opponent to poke or run in. Doesn't seem too good for mixups - there's pretty much no reason to block high against him, and if you think they'll jump/attack you're better off with a normal move.

All in all, I think it's an interesting discovery that is helpful but hardly game-breaking.

-Josh

Yo,... WHen you get this message im still hosting. I am AyaIArima On monster. We got disconnected

[Xenozip.]

if you space it well you get three loops, maybe more three is the most I've done and that was back in A so it might have changed, the spacing is really specific though. Right, but my impression was that it might be possible to double jump back after the 3rd DP to cross the opponent up and continue the loop. Though, I'm not sure if Delga's jump attacks are fast enough.

Same with T-Siely actually. I was under the impression that she could wall-slam loop with his shifted 41236a move, which ends when she crosses up. But I was thinking she might be able to extend the loop with ice spike and air dive to get on the other side and continue the loop.

But again, I dunno 'cuz I haven't tested yet.

[Josh-TheFunkDOC]

Sorry, haven't checked to see if anyone corrected me, but Freedom 623B IS slower than the normal one. Still faster than the Monster version though, and usable as a poke here and there.

EDIT: Also, was I on crack, or can Delga score powerbreaks with the Freedom command grab? I know it's impossible with the Normal & Monster ones, but I swear this happened.

Man I am getting hooked on this ish! =)

[Xenozip.]

All I know about Freedom Delga's command grab is it's blockable and will grab airborne opponents.

[Spooty Whiteboy]

Ok. After I get off of work tonight. I'll post up some monster combos. But I gotta go right now. Those look pretty good though.

From 2/3 (or more) away from corner:

61234A xx j.A, j.B, B, 66B, 623B, SHIFT, j.A, j.B, B, 66B, 623B xx B, 66B, 22B

From 1/2 Screen:

61234A xx B, j.A, j.B, B, 623B, SHIFT, B, 623B xx B, 66B, 22B

From less than 2/3 Screen:

61234A xx j.B, B, 66B, 623B, SHIFT, j.A, j.B, B, 66C, 22B

In the corner:

61234A xx j.A, j.B, B, 66B, 623B, SHIFT, j.A, j.B, B, 66C, 22B

These are the best combos that I can come up with for now. They can be real hard to time, but you'll get it down after some practice. Oh, and in that third combo, the first j.B is the air combo cross-up B. Wait a second, jump, hit B late.

Hopefully this hasn't been posted already...

Last night I learned from tl_crow that Delga's 623B is unblockable. Seriously. Before you all go completely apeshit though, remember:

I'm fairly sure this is common knowledge by now. At least to Delga players (and the others that play Monster quite a bit).

Right, but my impression was that it might be possible to double jump back after the 3rd DP to cross the opponent up and continue the loop. Though, I'm not sure if Delga's jump attacks are fast enough.

It's not possible to hit them after that last DP. You won't recover in time to jump, and they fall faster with each wall-bounce.

All I know about Freedom Delga's command grab is it's blockable and will grab airborne opponents.

It's not a grab. It's an actual attack.

[ShardZ]

EDIT: Also, was I on crack, or can Delga score powerbreaks with the Freedom command grab? I know it's impossible with the Normal & Monster ones, but I swear this happened.
I saved the replay when you did that to me - automatically saves it for you too. I didn't know F-Delga's command grab became an attack... so my head pretty much exploded when you got that powerbreak and I was suddenly in front of you instead of being midair.. and very grabbed.

Coming soon to a Monster match near you: me attempting to do T-Siely 41236A loops, failing, and getting angry. ^^

[Xiii]

Late info for those who don't loiter in the IRC channel.

Japanese Monster Tier Update:

S - Ryuogen
A - Maya
B - Delga
C - Othello, Rail
D - Katze, Siely
E - Orju, Aleksandr

Ryuogen is of course God Tier as everybody has been able to agree upon. He maybe 1 somewhat annoying matchup against Othello, but nobody else is really a threat to him.

T/F-Maya is known to easily shutdown a lot of characters when played well.

Delga's command grab is broken, that's why he's ranked in the top 3. Despite how he was ranked by us american players, the japanese have come to this conclusion after much more play than us. I can't really disagree with them, Delga's game is just that powerful with the inclusion of that ridiculous throw.

Oh how the mighty have fallen, Othello is still pretty strong, but he's top anymore because in my opinion, his offense has been exposed to be very linear. No real reliable overhead without shift and though he can still get high damage off just one of his long range pokes, he's still particularly easy to read and defend against. Rail is pretty much the same still, but with news that M-Rail is actually quite powerful and just as viable as F-Rail, maybe more so. His strengths lie in that he can runaway quite well in M and a lot of people who have never experienced his runaway in this mode won't know what to do to counter it.

Katze has fallen quite a bit, it was a huge surprise as with how low Othello was placed, but we began to realize that the reason he was low as well was really random situations where his BnB just didn't combo and the opponent would be able to randomly block. Also an issue with his Super is that it doesn't always fully hit making times where you might PB your opponent and the last hit of your 236C super will just whiff for no damage. Waste of meter and inconsistent damage/combos drop him from the higher ranks. Siely hasn't moved, she's still right above bottom tier and what we know about her before is still pretty much the same and unquestioned.

Here comes the kicker, Orju has fallen. This is a really harsh fall too and a lot of us in IRC have been dumbfounded by why he's ranked this low. Orju has a lot of strong tools, but it seems as though it's because of lack of consistency in his combos that drop him as well. Freedom was believed by the japanese to be Orju's best mode, but a lot of people here still think T-Orju is better just because of the safeness of this mode for Orju. It's still pretty unknown as to why Orju is believed to be this low on the boards as our answer was badly babelfished and we couldn't really get any other clearer answer at the moment. With him standing along side Aleksandr which we all know won't be leaving last place on the tier list anytime soon, we have to wonder what's going to happen during the next update since it should include new netcode as well as character balances.

I might have remembered wrong as this was posted and discussed yesturday in the IRC channel and if you were there you could have been included in the discussion as well as asked questions! Well, correct me if I missed anything and for those of you who are interested in the game or even worst, playing the game without paying us a visit, join us on IRC! Server EFnet, Channel #8105Monster.

[Xenozip.]

Here comes the kicker, Orju has fallen. This is a really harsh fall too and a lot of us in IRC have been dumbfounded by why he's ranked this low.

-snip-Yeah, I don't see it. T-Orju is at least better than Siely. F-Orju is amazingly good too, but I still believe T-Orju is better. I personally rank T-Orju on the same level as Rail.

[Emil]

T-Siely should be near top. Once she's in Tranquility mode, you can't move against her, since her moves are alot easier to do on reaction than other moves, and go much further (qcb+B "homing in" against opponents who jump). It would seem that you're forced to just wait out her mode before doing anything. I don't see why she's low tier at all, the main reason may be because most people think all she has is the forward dash (which is counterable), which is obviously not true.

Delga being top tier is really only because people do not seem to know how to avoid throws...I've seen some retarded gameplay with people just running right into Delga. Most Delga opponents I see just don't stop going for the throw, no matter what. They've obviously ignored other parts of his gameplay. They even mash the throw between your combos, hoping you mistime things (and with the lag, that's bound to happen). T-Siely for example, is horrible matchup for Delga, as long as she keeps away, he can't really do anything.

[Xiii]

T-Siely should be near top. Once she's in Tranquility mode, you can't move against her, since her moves are alot easier to do on reaction than other moves, and go much further (qcb+B "homing in" against opponents who jump). It would seem that you're forced to just wait out her mode before doing anything. I don't see why she's low tier at all, the main reason may be because most people think all she has is the forward dash (which is counterable), which is obviously not true.

It really depends, I've played Rogueyoshi's Siely with Aleks and I find it a lot more difficult to beat F-Siely over T-Siely. T-Siely is very punishable whereas F-Siely is not. There are times you can attack T-Siely whereas F-Siely you really have to pay attention and watch how you block against her.

Delga being top tier is really only because people do not seem to know how to avoid throws...I've seen some retarded gameplay with people just running right into Delga. Most Delga opponents I see just don't stop going for the throw, no matter what. They've obviously ignored other parts of his gameplay. They even mash the throw between your combos, hoping you mistime things (and with the lag, that's bound to happen). T-Siely for example, is horrible matchup for Delga, as long as she keeps away, he can't really do anything.

I disagree. I'm very jump happy, but against Delga it becomes different. Once he knocks you down, he can effectively pin you down. With Siely, it might be a bit easier since she's off the ground so much, but really only 2 characters can really do this well and that's M-Rail along with any rendition of Siely. 2 out of 9 characters that can deal with Delga doesn't mean much. He is a force to be reckoned with against a lot of characters because he can just as easily blow you out of the air. Siely has very fast jump attacks and characters with slow air attacks can't beat her out of the air, but not every character has a move like Siely's j.C.

Aleks has a tough fight against Delga because of this. j.A is the only real effective move if you have just been knocked down by Delga because it's his fastest attack. j.A as soon as you get off the floor and j.A again right before you hit the floor allows you to run away after if you time it right... IF you time it right. Delga can counter this by backdashing after getting hit by the first j.A and then 66b and then combo you. It's the most horrible situation ever for Aleks because it's pretty much his only choice after getting knocked down by Delga.

For those who don't understand the situation. On knockdown, Delga's BEST option is to command grab you. In the case of Aleks, he has no throw so he cannot try to throw Delga out of it. He cannot backdash because he can't backdash out of Delga's throw range. He cannot attack because he will just get grabbed. He can only jump, but j.B and j.C are far too slow to hit right away and Delga recovers BEFORE the moves come out so Delga can either backdash and then 66whatever tick throw Aleks when he comes down again or he can just spam 5A and knock Aleks back down again. This leaves the above options. j.A which gets nullified by the fact that Delga can just jab you out of it after you hit him because you can't combo j.A into anything on a standing character. Jumping back into a corner is worst for you because Delga can do more damage with wall bounce and jumping forward doesn't do anything for you because he still recovers before you and Aleks has no good cross-up in that situation (compared to Siely where she can just hit C and be safe or just float to the side of the screen).

Though this might be a bad example, but the fact of the matter is, a lot of characters end up being put into similar situations over and over again with Delga. Delga doesn't need to change up his play style for most characters, but most characters must do so to fight Delga.

[Emil]

It really depends, I've played Rogueyoshi's Siely with Aleks and I find it a lot more difficult to beat F-Siely over T-Siely. T-Siely is very punishable whereas F-Siely is not. There are times you can attack T-Siely whereas F-Siely you really have to pay attention and watch how you block against her.

When can you attack T-Siely?

The problem with F-Siely rushdown, is if you can block it well enough, you're going to build a lot of points. Although rogueyoshi generally rushes down until your points are slightly less than his, then he backs down.

Jump-happiness can be easily beaten by just running underneath the opponent. I've seen some Delga's jump spam with his jump B, and while it has pretty good priority, I don't think it has crossup potential (so running under is not a problem).

[Xiii]

Read the edit of my post. Also I forgot to mention how good Maya is at just locking down Delga because she can stay at a range where Delga can't throw her. I forgot because I suck with Maya. Also running under Delga isn't as easy as it sounds. Actually... running under anybody isn't as easy as it sounds.

T-Siely doesn't hit until the end of her 214A. Her command throw in T becomes a high ranged spinning attack in the air and her 236A becomes the easiest thing to PB her with. Her command throw shifted goes over the heads of pixie characters and you can punish her as soon as she lands (easy with Aleks since you can't block his punishment). Same with 214A, hitting her during her autoguard of the move usually makes the attack whiff. Free combo as soon as she lands.

[MAGUS1234]

seily is a dumb character. she should get seriously revamped, scrub lockdown with no damage, its the most boring match in the game.

Big annoyance in the game is the amount of spammable scrub tactics, at least in SF games the combos spacing and lockdown is hard. Sometimes it doesnt even seem worth fighting a shifted character, so its just a lame ass cat and mouse game. You shift I run, I shift you fly...blah blah blah.

[Xiii]

Man, they fly you chase their ass and bring them back to earth. If i can beat Siely with Aleks, anybody can.

[Xenozip.]

-snip- Some shifted characters do remind me of Yun's GJ. It's almost guaranteed damage once you're in shift, like activated Yun.

It's not like that for the whole cast though. Shifted Othello, Rail, and Delga doesn't scare me any more than unshifted does. Actually I get more aggressive when those characters shift because then I'm like "Hey, they can't burst. Time to combo they ass.".

I'm not scared of F-Siely or M-Siely at all either. You just gotta watch out for T-Siely.

[Darkstalker]

As a general rule, I think Rail at least should only shift to either get out of comboes or extend them. >_>

[4649]

seily is a dumb character. she should get seriously revamped, scrub lockdown with no damage, its the most boring match in the game.

Big annoyance in the game is the amount of spammable scrub tactics, at least in SF games the combos spacing and lockdown is hard. Sometimes it doesnt even seem worth fighting a shifted character, so its just a lame ass cat and mouse game. You shift I run, I shift you fly...blah blah blah.

you seriously have no clue how difficult F-Siely is to play. almost every character in the game rapes her. ;/
you almost require nigh-JP precision to not get raped by ANYONE using Tranquility shift against her.
unless you play her as a main, I really don't think you have any clue how bad she is. there's almost no hope for her against Othello and Ryougen. hell, even Aleksander can fuck her up because when she's crouching her hitbox is FUCKING HUGE.
i've stuck with her since the game came out, but i think she might end up being the Yang of the game; i.e. being hard as shit to play effectively, needing meter to be effective and getting raped by 2/3rds of the cast. -_-
also she does NO FUCKING DAMAGE, so what the fuck kind of lockdown are YOU getting hit by that's got YOU scared of her?

edit: don't mind me, i'm bitter because i feel like my main is actually more like Twelve or Sean or some shit
seriously though, there are characters who are far and beyond more worth complaining about.... ( ::cough cough M-Rail cough:: )

[Xenozip.]

so what the fuck kind of lockdown are YOU getting hit by that's got YOU scared of her?
-snip-
T-Siely lock down.

[Emil]

you seriously have no clue how difficult F-Siely is to play. almost every character in the game rapes her. ;/

F-Siely is easy to play. Basically, what you do is this - while playing (and the points are relatively even), try to do one basic combo and land as many hits as you can. A normal combo with no super and a shift will get you like 30 hits or more. Now, opponent will be at a major point disadvantage. While shifted, you can rush down to the extreme until the points even up (but this is assuming they can actually block the rush down).

You can for the most part, spam qcb+B in their face, and cancel it to air A, B chain, followed by either another qcb+B (into more air A, B chains), or land and either command throw or crouch B. It's very difficult to guard against.

you almost require nigh-JP precision to not get raped by ANYONE using Tranquility shift against her.
unless you play her as a main, I really don't think you have any clue how bad she is. there's almost no hope for her against Othello and Ryougen. hell, even Aleksander can fuck her up because when she's crouching her hitbox is FUCKING HUGE.

How doe she get raped by Othello? Her anti-air is weak so she has some problems with Ryougen...but you can avoid the instant overhead mixups by just backdashing.

i've stuck with her since the game came out, but i think she might end up being the Yang of the game; i.e. being hard as shit to play effectively, needing meter to be effective and getting raped by 2/3rds of the cast. -_-
also she does NO FUCKING DAMAGE, so what the fuck kind of lockdown are YOU getting hit by that's got YOU scared of her?

I've done over 8000 damage with her, which results in about 65 hits, leading to more rushdown potential (since the opponent will likely have to get his points up to this amount, or risk countering her with weak anti-airs).

[Xenozip.]

I've done over 8000 damage with her, which results in about 65 hits, leading to more rushdown potential (since the opponent will likely have to get his points up to this amount, or risk countering her with weak anti-airs). How much can you do with Siely with just shift stocked (no supers stocked till you shift)?

[Emil]

How much can you do with Siely with just shift stocked (no supers stocked till you shift)?

Using no super and no shift...2476 damage, 20 hits, assuming I started with a dash C. There is a way to get more damage but the timing is incredibly strict and not worth trying online.

For using one shift and one super, not sure...have to experiment. It's obviously less than Othello and others though.

Edit: Might have misunderstood the question...are you referring to doing a combo, with a shift, but not using the super? If so, not sure, have to experiment, but I'm guessing I could probably do 3500 damage. The qcb+Bx2, hcf+A, hcf+A(other direction), repetitions can get some good damage, although require some fast hands.

Her ways of getting damage are more flexible than characters like Delga, who rely almost always on trying to land a throw. I really can't agree on her being low tier. I'd probably put her higher than Delga.

And Xiii, running under opponents when they jump is very easy, especially in this game where jumpins are not that low (even with double jump) and not many things crossup. Of course, Maya suffers here with her really bad forward run/dash.

[Shin Touyokouzan]

I dont know what you people are talking about. You need to play freedom orju =P. Thats where the damage is!

[Emil]

Another thing that needs to be considered about tier is lag. If the games are lagging, then scrubs get away with a lot of shit, such as mashing Othello's braindead easy bnb combo. The "good" player might be trying to time their attacks, but if the game spikes, you will probably mistime something, and get hit by that Othello combo, because the one using Othello isn't trying to time anything, he's just mashing the crouch A. In laggy games, Othello and Delga could be top tier, but otherwise I can't really see how (although I see that Othello has a great rushdown if you utilize his d+AB, which not many seem to use anyway).

But anyway, the reason I mention mashing othellos is that I fought some guy over a week ago would keep hitting the crouch A button no matter what I did...most of the time he'd get hit because Othello normals are slow, but if the game ever spiked (which was occassional), his normal would hit me first. It's a perfect example of lag helping the masher, giving the illusion that Othello is good. In this sense, it is always worth dropping from the game if this happens.

[Xenozip.]

Edit: Might have misunderstood the question...are you referring to doing a combo, with a shift, but not using the super? If so, not sure, have to experiment, but I'm guessing I could probably do 3500 damage. The qcb+Bx2, hcf+A, hcf+A(other direction), repetitions can get some good damage, although require some fast hands. Actually I'm very curious about both.

What I meant was you start unshifted and you shift cancel and do 1 super during the combo. Although I'm also curious about already being shifted and still having 1 stock of super to use.

[Emil]

Actually I'm very curious about both.

What I meant was you start unshifted and you shift cancel and do 1 super during the combo. Although I'm also curious about already being shifted and still having 1 stock of super to use.

I usually don't use only one super in a combo, because that one super does very little damage and doesn't allow for that much more damage unless you go all the way and land all three supers. Clearly the finishing super does the most damage, even with the damage scaling.

[ShardZ]

YOU'RE FORGETTING M-SIELY
THE BEST CHAR IN THE ENTIRE GAME

seriously though, she needs the dmg on her supers to be vaguely comparable to (most of) the rest of the cast. it's f'ing sad currently.

[Emil]

YOU'RE FORGETTING M-SIELY
THE BEST CHAR IN THE ENTIRE GAME

seriously though, she needs the dmg on her supers to be vaguely comparable to (most of) the rest of the cast. it's f'ing sad currently.

I don't see what's so good about M-Siely. I used to think her projectile was overpowered, but that was when I didn't understand the points system. The fact that it does so many hits makes it pretty useless.

[Xenozip.]

I don't see what's so good about M-Siely. I used to think her projectile was overpowered, but that was when I didn't understand the points system. The fact that it does so many hits makes it pretty useless. I'm pretty certain he was being sarcastic (hence the caps lock). He doesn't even play M-Siely (he uses T).

[Emil]

I'm pretty certain he was being sarcastic (hence the caps lock). He doesn't even play M-Siely (he uses T).

Eh yeah. Anyway, the point is that I used to think her projectile was godly. The point system actually makes it pretty useless, unless you are at a major point advantage from a long combo (in which case, you can do some major chipping with it).

There are some tricks you can do that can make it crossup, by flying over it and behind while it's coming and tossing another one so that they both hit at nearly the same time.

[4649]

F-Siely is easy to play. Basically, what you do is this - while playing (and the points are relatively even), try to do one basic combo and land as many hits as you can. A normal combo with no super and a shift will get you like 30 hits or more. Now, opponent will be at a major point disadvantage. While shifted, you can rush down to the extreme until the points even up (but this is assuming they can actually block the rush down).

You can for the most part, spam qcb+B in their face, and cancel it to air A, B chain, followed by either another qcb+B (into more air A, B chains), or land and either command throw or crouch B. It's very difficult to guard against.



How doe she get raped by Othello? Her anti-air is weak so she has some problems with Ryougen...but you can avoid the instant overhead mixups by just backdashing.



I've done over 8000 damage with her, which results in about 65 hits, leading to more rushdown potential (since the opponent will likely have to get his points up to this amount, or risk countering her with weak anti-airs).


you know how siely gets raped by othello? BLOOD.
all he needs to do is land bloodspray once, or even have the puddles out, and siely will have to back off. if she gets it on her, at that point should she even 66 dash ONCE, he ignites it, and she's forced to play defensive again. his normals have SICK priority over everything she does, and it's way too easy to get powerbroken. backdashing out just makes you end up eating his blood move and getting put in worse situations because any Othello worth their salt are going to use it to limit her mobility. you can't just mindlessly rush while shifted with 214B,A,B because it's not safe, you WILL end up getting supered because there are bad frame gaps inbetween 214Bs, that shit is NOT for free. maybe you should try playing someone good like Turbovec or L3land with F-Siely for a few sets and you'd know what I mean. :/
i know about T-Siely's lockdown but I have my own reasons for not wanting to switch to Tranquility.

[Emil]

you know how siely gets raped by othello? BLOOD.
all he needs to do is land bloodspray once, or even have the puddles out, and siely will have to back off. if she gets it on her, at that point should she even 66 dash ONCE, he ignites it, and she's forced to play defensive again.

Just bait him...run forward a bit, stop. Repeat...make him want to use it. If you get close enough, start an offense, otherwise advance slowly.

his normals have SICK priority over everything she does, and it's way too easy to get powerbroken

The powerbreak occurs because your points are low, not really because of priorities. If your points are not lower than his, there will be no powerbreak.

backdashing out just makes you end up eating his blood move and getting put in worse situations because any Othello worth their salt are going to use it to limit her mobility.

I don't think blood actually hits during a backdash as backdashes are invincible.

you can't just mindlessly rush while shifted with 214B,A,B because it's not safe, you WILL end up getting supered because there are bad frame gaps inbetween 214Bs, that shit is NOT for free. maybe you should try playing someone good like Turbovec or L3land with F-Siely for a few sets and you'd know what I mean. :/

It's pretty much free because the jab is almost instantly after. I can see the qcb+C super going through it though, since it has some startup invincibility, but you'd have to mash it through pretty accurately, and you can just bait him into using the super, which means free big combo for you. And I already defeated those players rather easily (L3land was harder since the game was rather laggy). Turbovec rushes way too much, building your point total to incredible levels, making powerbreaks easy. Also, he attempts to attack between your strings, with Othello's normals, which won't work because Othello's normals are much slower than Siely's. This will only work if a lag spike occurs, resulting in your mistiming your own normals so that his end up hitting you, but of course this is a lag factor and not valid.

Your idea of "good players" is rather shaky.

[Xiii]

Show your stuff! 03/04/2007 Ranbat, BE THERE!

[Emil]

Show your stuff! 03/04/2007 Ranbat, BE THERE!

Too many lag spikes, it makes the tournaments pretty meaningless. It would be best if you made it regional...separating all west coast and east coast players (and possibly north and south).

[Xiii]

*Magically creates seeds by region, making best characters from the East and West face each other, culminating to an epic showdown between East's best and West's best!*

[4649]

Just bait him...run forward a bit, stop. Repeat...make him want to use it. If you get close enough, start an offense, otherwise advance slowly.



The powerbreak occurs because your points are low, not really because of priorities. If your points are not lower than his, there will be no powerbreak.



I don't think blood actually hits during a backdash as backdashes are invincible.



It's pretty much free because the jab is almost instantly after. I can see the qcb+C super going through it though, since it has some startup invincibility, but you'd have to mash it through pretty accurately, and you can just bait him into using the super, which means free big combo for you. And I already defeated those players rather easily (L3land was harder since the game was rather laggy). Turbovec rushes way too much, building your point total to incredible levels, making powerbreaks easy. Also, he attempts to attack between your strings, with Othello's normals, which won't work because Othello's normals are much slower than Siely's. This will only work if a lag spike occurs, resulting in your mistiming your own normals so that his end up hitting you, but of course this is a lag factor and not valid.

Your idea of "good players" is rather shaky.

and now, a post made of hatred

YOU CANNOT BAIT OTHELLO with Siely. there's nothing he has to fear from her at all. her normals suck, and if you actually try that 214A, A,B repeat shit on him you're going to build him a fuckload of points that he is going to use to powerbreak you and rape the shit out of you with Talbain juggle.
Blood does not hit during backdash but A+B blood explosion will ignite it whilei t's on the ground and it will hit you and leave you vulnerable to his ridiculous oki overhead game.

look, whatever, you're so supposedly damn good with Siely so you already know all this, right? show up at the ranbat, get raped and then go tear down this bullshit you're talking about in a game you haven't played real comp in obviously and then learn how the shit actually works.

[MAGUS1234]

Too many lag spikes, it makes the tournaments pretty meaningless. It would be best if you made it regional...separating all west coast and east coast players (and possibly north and south).
ya, I can play vs south,midwst and west heads.....but alot of EC'ers lag out for me.

[rogueyoshi]

and now, a post made of hatred

YOU CANNOT BAIT OTHELLO with Siely. there's nothing he has to fear from her at all. her normals suck, and if you actually try that 214A, A,B repeat shit on him you're going to build him a fuckload of points that he is going to use to powerbreak you and rape the shit out of you with Talbain juggle.
Blood does not hit during backdash but A+B blood explosion will ignite it whilei t's on the ground and it will hit you and leave you vulnerable to his ridiculous oki overhead game.

look, whatever, you're so supposedly damn good with Siely so you already know all this, right? show up at the ranbat, get raped and then go tear down this bullshit you're talking about in a game you haven't played real comp in obviously and then learn how the shit actually works.
f siely owns othello. othello, delga, and aleks are really the only reasons i still use her instead of t. he cant do anything to stop that guard string but switch. emils point is that if you do a big combo, then she gets free rushdown on him with no fear of retaliation.

[Emil]

YOU CANNOT BAIT OTHELLO with Siely. there's nothing he has to fear from her at all. her normals suck, and if you actually try that 214A, A,B repeat shit on him you're going to build him a fuckload of points that he is going to use to powerbreak you and rape the shit out of you with Talbain juggle.

You didn't listen to anything I said. You use that rushdown after a combo you do on him, when your point advantage is high. You do it until the points almost even out, and this is assuming he can block it all. Of course Siely can bait him...all she has to do is a forward empty dash and end it immediately. Her run speed is fast, he will become wary of you approaching and either ignite it or defend.

Blood does not hit during backdash but A+B blood explosion will ignite it whilei t's on the ground and it will hit you and leave you vulnerable to his ridiculous oki overhead game.

I'm pretty sure the ignition does not hit during the backdash. I don't see how it will leave her open to anything.

look, whatever, you're so supposedly damn good with Siely so you already know all this, right? show up at the ranbat, get raped and then go tear down this bullshit you're talking about in a game you haven't played real comp in obviously and then learn how the shit actually works.

Dude, you're assuming dumb shit. You're saying that I haven't fought good Othello players, and then bring up Turbovec, which I defeated easily. I know about your comments about me in the IRC channel, you said I was a shit talker. Obviously, if you brought up Turbovec as evidence of there being good Othello players, and I state I beat him easily, then it's going to *seem* that I am shit-talking, even though it's just the truth. As for L3land, he can be dangerous with the throw, but if you keep jumping out, he always whiffs it, so it ended up being easy. There's no one that can rape me in this game, only some people can beat me (fooligar, possibly Xenozip matches will be close, rogueyoshi matches are pretty close although he wins more). There are some people I haven't fought, like Magus, who seem like they are good players. In any case, that's not the issue.

[Shin Touyokouzan]

You didn't listen to anything I said. You use that rushdown after a combo you do on him, when your point advantage is high. You do it until the points almost even out, and this is assuming he can block it all. Of course Siely can bait him...all she has to do is a forward empty dash and end it immediately. Her run speed is fast, he will become wary of you approaching and either ignite it or defend.



I'm pretty sure the ignition does not hit during the backdash. I don't see how it will leave her open to anything.



Dude, you're assuming dumb shit. You're saying that I haven't fought good Othello players, and then bring up Turbovec, which I defeated easily. I know about your comments about me in the IRC channel, you said I was a shit talker. Obviously, if you brought up Turbovec as evidence of there being good Othello players, and I state I beat him easily, then it's going to *seem* that I am shit-talking, even though it's just the truth. As for L3land, he can be dangerous with the throw, but if you keep jumping out, he always whiffs it, so it ended up being easy. There's no one that can rape me in this game, only some people can beat me (fooligar, possibly Xenozip matches will be close, rogueyoshi matches are pretty close although he wins more). There are some people I haven't fought, like Magus, who seem like they are good players. In any case, that's not the issue.

Of course He isnt listening. Your typing online lol

As for Turbovec. I notice he has up and down periods. I Personally believe he has a good othello. He just conforms way too easy to one style of play which holds him back from being great. I have never played you so I cant say. Xeno is good, Fooligar is good, Rougeyoshi is good. Fooligar is pretty much the best we have. I do really well against all of the above players. So if anyone knows anything about this game it would be the people i just mentioned.

As for no one can rape you in this game. Maybe not. But who cares. I thought this game was once again to be played for fun. But whatever. Im not attacking anyone so dont get defensive.

[Spooty Whiteboy]

Xeno is good, Fooligar is good, Rougeyoshi is good.

sadness...

[smacks]

why have ranbat?

you have theory fighter showdown of epic proportions going on right here!!

[MAGUS1234]

how do the ranbats work? Irc?... :(

[Shin Touyokouzan]

sadness...

I was going based on the names he mentioned lol You know your good spootz lol

[Xiii]

Lies, ( L3land > Spootz ) > Xiii. Die bitches!

[Xenozip.]

f siely owns othello. othello, delga, and aleks are really the only reasons i still use her instead of t. he cant do anything to stop that guard string but switch. emils point is that if you do a big combo, then she gets free rushdown on him with no fear of retaliation.

How fast does WAAK come out? I've never tried stopping her rushdown with WAAK. I'll have to experiment, I'm certain there's at least something he can do like maybe backdashing at the right time, but then again I don't play Othello so I could be completely wrong haha.

[Darkstalker]

Hmm...

I'm now leaning towards M-Rail being better than F-Rail. Main reason being that M-Rail, as far as I can tell, has no limit to his spirit spam. So keepaway becomes an excellent tactic for the whole match with M-Rail.

I wish I could connect better with you guys...as such, I'm stuck playing in college. :(

[Shin Touyokouzan]

Who are you on Monster?

[Xenozip.]

how do the ranbats work? Irc?... :( Yeah, without a chat function in Monster we don't have much other choice. The ranbats would take too long and be too unorganized without live chat (rooms).

[BlakHayato]

Game looks interesting. I think I need to change some settings on my comp or something, cause the graphics look kinda distorted.

Is this supposed to be released on PS3/Xbox/Wii later or something? Or is it just PC only?

[Shin Touyokouzan]

Game looks interesting. I think I need to change some settings on my comp or something, cause the graphics look kinda distorted.

Is this supposed to be released on PS3/Xbox/Wii later or something? Or is it just PC only?

Eventually it will be on something. what We do not know yet. But yeah change the settings on your computer And join our IRC room! Information is in my sig. We will do as much as possible to help you out =D

[Darkstalker]

Who are you on Monster?

Darkstalker...or was it Darkstalker [SRK]?

I don't connect though. Live in Malaysia, so every connection is a shitty one. So I play with my college mates. I try to connect sometimes, but the lag is too atrocious for me to bother with most of the time.

Also, since I don't get a lot of exposure to players, I'm pretty sure I suck more than all of you guys.

EDIT:

If you wanna play a simple (and moderately useless, but better than nothing) mix up game, in corner end a combo with shifted M-Rail's 236 + A. If the first hit of the bomb connects, it will detonate more or less EXACTLY as the opponent gets up, giving you time do an attack. I like to run after hitting the bomb, as they're getting up, and then use either B or 2 + A (both end in the same animation), and if it connects cancel to either 214 + C (ending with A) or, if I have 3 stocks, 236 + C. Comboing Rail's ABSURD isn't worth it though. =\

[Xenozip.]

If the first hit of the bomb connects, it will detonate more or less EXACTLY as the opponent gets up, giving you time do an attack.=\Different characters have different wake-up speeds. Does that work against all opponents? I thought the bomb was timed based, not proximity based -- am I wrong?

[MURPHAGATOR!]

It doesn't seem to work on siely, rail, or efleet, but it seems to have more to do with how they bounce off the first explosion than their wakeup speed. I tested it with 236B, 236A, for reference.

[ShardZ]

why have ranbat?

you have theory fighter showdown of epic proportions going on right here!!

:rofl:

[Josh-TheFunkDOC]

GGs to Spooty

And the beatdown he gave me with Freedom led me to practice that some more...as a result, I put up some more combo replays at the link in my sig. Most of them feature his axe-whiff custom, in a variety of different situations - now I can see why Japan considers Delga above-average, as this combos from practically anything. I also uploaded a couple goofy huge combos, one of which is a 100% off his command grab. Not nearly as useful as it sounds though, as you need to be trapped near the corner AND have shift + level 3.

[Spooty Whiteboy]

GGs to Spooty

And the beatdown he gave me with Freedom led me to practice that some more...as a result, I put up some more combo replays at the link in my sig. Most of them feature his axe-whiff custom, in a variety of different situations - now I can see why Japan considers Delga above-average, as this combos from practically anything. I also uploaded a couple goofy huge combos, one of which is a 100% off his command grab. Not nearly as useful as it sounds though, as you need to be trapped near the corner AND have shift + level 3.

GGs to you man.

I'm fairly sure you get more damage starting the combos (from command grab) with:

41236A xx B, j.A, j.B, B, 623B, SHIFT

Instead of just 41236A xx SHIFT

[Darkstalker]

It doesn't seem to work on siely, rail, or efleet, but it seems to have more to do with how they bounce off the first explosion than their wakeup speed. I tested it with 236B, 236A, for reference.

I don't think it's wakeup speeds, but here're the comboes I normally use when already shifted.

A, A, A, C, 66C (one hit), 236 + A.

2C, 66A or C (one hit), 236 + A

The opponent's more or less the same height level every time the bomb hits though. Around Rail's head level?

[Xiii]

I have a question I want to throw out to just anybody in general.

When you're looking for a guide or video tutorial, especially if one was made for this game for specific characters, what kind of information would you be most interested in? What do you want to know specifically and what would be helpful for you even once you're past knowing the basics from just playing?

Currently I'm working on an Aleksandr video tutorial (yeah, real used character >_>). I probably know the most about him in our current community so I chose to make a video for him as there are much better players for the other characters. If this goes well, I'll probably collaborate with some of those players and create more videos for other characters.

I'm tired and right now I'm just planning a video, been watching some tutorial videos too, but hey I can miss stuff right? So let me know, what would kind of stuff would you like to see?

[MAGUS1234]

^^target combos with shift without shift
-wakeup games variety of
-how to counter some of the game breaking shit (siely lockdown, delgagrab...ect)
-presyure practicality of moves, combos of course...

you know, make it run the gamut of nOob to even shedding some light for the advanced players.

[Josh-TheFunkDOC]

GGs to you man.

Thanks. =)

I'm fairly sure you get more damage starting the combos (from command grab) with:

41236A xx B, j.A, j.B, B, 623B, SHIFT

Instead of just 41236A xx SHIFT

I tested all sorts of things before recording these, and just going straight into shift was the best option I found. Why?

Because all of his normals do more damage in freedom, and you can only get so many hits before gravity cuts off the loop. And the normal 623B does a lot of damage but has another problem:

Damage proration from command grab = 80%.
Damage proration from command grab, 623B = 64%


Now then, to some other Delga things...

Experienced players probably already know about this, but for those who don't, his charged C is a tremendous followup to powerbreaks. Usually the running version - have to run first and THEN hold C.

Are there any real good burst baits? I've only found simple things like 41236A, 5C, jump cancel, shift.

Something Aya kept using on me - running A on block, late cancel to command grab. Normally this move is unsafe IIRC, but you can cancel normals at any point in this game, creating some very weird-looking tick throws.

214A, best as I can tell, has more vertical range in normal mode but a wider hitbox in freedom.

Something general vs. Siely - If she does that one super into divekick and you block it, you can backdash through the divekick. Not sure if this actually lets you punish it, but it's still good to know since that divekick gives her advantage.

That's about it for now. Starting to mess around with other characters...hot DAMN this game is fun. =)

[Xenozip.]

Are there any real good burst baits? I've only found simple things like 41236A, 5C, jump cancel, shift.

I've found a lot of really good burst baits with other characters. Not Delga though, I assumed Spooty would come up with all the Delga stuff.

[Gasaraki]

this game looks intresting, any place to get the basics or am I gonna be stickin with this thread?

[Spooty Whiteboy]

I tested all sorts of things before recording these, and just going straight into shift was the best option I found. Why?

Because all of his normals do more damage in freedom, and you can only get so many hits before gravity cuts off the loop. And the normal 623B does a lot of damage but has another problem:

Damage proration from command grab = 80%.
Damage proration from command grab, 623B = 64%

Well, yes, you do get more final damage from just the shift. But I don't think you are looking at it the way I am. Any experienced player will wait until Delga Shifts, and then they will Burst. That way; they don't have to worry about you doing 6k-7k from a grab (at that moment, or until you get your shift back). So, if you just straight Shift then you get around 1.4k damage (if they Burst as soon as possible after the Shift); but if you do what I said, then you get around 3.6k damage (while still hitting at least 5.5k if no Burst occured).

Are there any real good burst baits? I've only found simple things like 41236A, 5C, jump cancel, shift.

Something Aya kept using on me - running A on block, late cancel to command grab. Normally this move is unsafe IIRC, but you can cancel normals at any point in this game, creating some very weird-looking tick throws.

214A, best as I can tell, has more vertical range in normal mode but a wider hitbox in freedom.

Something general vs. Siely - If she does that one super into divekick and you block it, you can backdash through the divekick. Not sure if this actually lets you punish it, but it's still good to know since that divekick gives her advantage.

Fuck a burst bait. I tried worrying about them at first, but there isn't a reason with Delga. People will (read: should) always wait until right after you shift to burst anyways. So just get what damage you can, and gain back your momentum later with a jab/sweep/anti-air/grab(hit)/rockwall/whatever since you are using Freedom.

Tick throws work for awhile, but you can't use them too much. Timing is hard, and once they are looking for it; they can counter pretty easily (with jump attack).

214A only hits on the blade, and not at all parts of the blade even (not the innermost part). Normal does have a wider arc in general. And the Freedom version goes just a small amount more horizontally, but not much.

You can't really punish Seily's divekick special as far as I know. That shit is like instant recovery.

this game looks intresting, any place to get the basics or am I gonna be stickin with this thread?

Visit the IRC channel and ask. #8105Monster

[Xenozip.]

this game looks intresting, any place to get the basics or am I gonna be stickin with this thread? Yeah umm.. too many Monster threads.

If want to learn by reading you can check out the Monster Wiki (http://www.shoryuken.com/wiki/index.php/Monster). Or you can read some more in-depth stuff here on My Blog (http://xenozip.blogspot.com/). And if you want to learn from watching match vids then check out My Youtube (http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=Xenozip) page, click "See All Videos" to see the rest of what I have.

[Gasaraki]

stupid questions:

Where's the DL link on the page? All I see is an update for 1.00d, not a full game.

Is 1.00d the latest? I see 1.99b and 2.83b on the page.

[Xenozip.]

1.00d is the latest patch. Check Xiii's sig for a direct download.

[Josh-TheFunkDOC]

Thanks for all the help! So he basically has no real good burst baits - what you're suggesting for combos does make sense then.

Yeah, I know those tick throws are just a gimmick, but it's easy to catch someone off guard when they haven't seen it before so I figured I'd mention it.

Question: is 662A safe?

[Xiii]

stupid questions:

Where's the DL link on the page? All I see is an update for 1.00d, not a full game.

Is 1.00d the latest? I see 1.99b and 2.83b on the page.

Copy and paste the filefront link in my sig. Grab that and then grab the 1.0d update. Once that is done, if you are behind a router please go to portforward.com and learn how to forward the port 2300 (TCP if you have the option) and you're good to go.

[Gasaraki]

Holy crap that file is huge, I'm on 56k. Does that page let you resume DLs? Cause it would take me more than a day to finish that.

[Shotokan Symphony]

I guess you'd need a download manager of sorts.

[Gasaraki]

well, I use Opera and it supports DL resume, but I'm asking if that page does.

[Xiii]

If you're on 56K, i don't know if I can really hope for too much out of this game for you. You won't really be able to play with anybody online.

[Gasaraki]

well, I wasn't expecting to play online really, I didn't realize you could, let alone that it would be any good. I know some people locally that would be intrested in the game though.

[Xenozip.]

How fast does WAAK come out? I've never tried stopping her rushdown with WAAK. I'll have to experiment, I'm certain there's at least something he can do like maybe backdashing at the right time, but then again I don't play Othello so I could be completely wrong haha.

Ok so I played a little bit of Othello vs F-Siely so that I could answer my own questions.

Yes, WAAK (623a) is fast enough to grab Siely out of the air during any non-combo point in her rushdown. So basically if there's a gap (and there are gaps) when she's in the air you can hit her with WAAK.

Additionally, you can always just have blood on her. Any time you combo into bite or land a WAAK or hit her with Blood Sword or hit her with 214a, don't waste the blood, just let it sit on her. If she tries rushing while you're unshifted you can knock her out with A+B detonation pretty easily. It's fast enough and has a small enough hitbox to knock her down between the gaps.

Also 5A beats Siely's 2A and 2B pretty cleanly.

[BlakHayato]

I like Rail so far. I don't really like being a combo whore, so I might be in trouble judging by how these videos look. I'd like to just use M- and play defense/keepaway... like how I used Ky in GG... Power breaking projectiles sounds like trouble. :sweat:

[Xenozip.]

Also 5A beats Siely's 2A and 2B pretty cleanly.
Oh I forgot to mention the point of that. Othello's 5A comes off the ground extremely fast. Not sure how fast but I've been able to beat Siely's un-combo 2A during rushdown strings.

I'm kind of curious if it beats meaty 2A's. If it does then that's just too damn good.

[Gasaraki]

How the hell are you supposed to be Ryougen? I was using Delga, but this guy is incredibly hard to beat. His pokes are insane.

[Spooty Whiteboy]

How the hell are you supposed to beat Ryougen? I was using Delga, but this guy is incredibly hard to beat. His pokes are insane.

I pointed out your mistake. You don't beat Ryougen with Delga. In fact, you don't beat Ryougen with anyone except Ryougen. That's why he's S-tier.

[MAGUS1234]

I pointed out your mistake. You don't beat Ryougen with Delga. In fact, you don't beat Ryougen with anyone except Ryougen. That's why he's S-tier.

I wouldnt go that far, you just have to work.
Thats like saying no one beats yun in 3s. He has no bad match-ups but if your a better player you can win. Ryougen isn't even as cheap as yun is in 3s.

Delga always has a chance, he has basically the cheapest move in the game with some of the best jump ins.

[Xenozip.]

How the hell are you supposed to be Ryougen? I was using Delga, but this guy is incredibly hard to beat. His pokes are insane. There isn't really a solid strategy for beating Ryougen. I think most people agree that Ryougen needs to be nerfed a bit.

You have to somehow maintain momentum during the match without getting countered/caught.

You can bait his counter and catch moves, but it's really just a guessing game. I believe Katze, Maya, Siely, and Rail are able to punish his counter move with very rapid A (light) attacks. You should also be able to backdash cancel your attack on reaction to the counter move, which at least lets you avoid getting hit by it. Don't try to punish the counter move if you get hit by it or block it, it appears slow but I believe Ryougen gets frame advantage. If you have point advantage you can beat the counter by trading with it for a powerbreak, or shifting on reaction to beat it cleanly for a powerbreak.

His catch move is very dangerous though (the catch, not the counter). There's really nothing you can do about it other than bait it or attack below his waist to avoid it, AFAIK.

If you lose momentum then he's probably going to do an instant high/low on you, which isn't easy to counter. I believe your best bet is to block high and try to look for his sweep to block low on reaction to the sweep. Also, pay attention to the sound he makes when he does his command throw, he says something before he rushes forward and you can jump/backdash on reaction to the sound.

Other than that, just try to keep the pressure on. His air-to-air game is kind of weak so look for opportunities to knock him out of the air. His rushdown and footsies are really strong though, so you just have to figure out a way to knock him down and keep him guessing.

And I agree with Magus, Delga certainly has a chance -- but it IS an uphill battle.