Is XvSF Competitively Playable?

[Khiempossible]

As some you may know, but most of you don't, the Xmen Vs. Street Fighter scene is on the rise. Old cats are now playing the game serious again, and lots of new cats are picking it up.

I hear XvSF is gonna be huge at Evo this year, and potentially even bigger next year. There's yearly nationals going down in Canada. Cities that I didnt' even know had competitive scenes are picking this game up. The online community is also huge on this game.

Which makes me really really curious. Most people have adbandonned this game due to cheesy infinites. Yet it's still growing. I've been playing the game for a mere two months, and I can tell you that infinites are not cheesy. They are part of the game and that you can deal with them. MVC2 has AHVB cheese, it has ROM and other cheese, it has guard break cheese. CVS2 has activate -> paint the fence cheese. KOF 98 has extra mode infinite LK cheese. Alpha 3 has CC cheese.

Big games like these all have a fair bit of cheese. Xmen just the same. So here's a couple questions:

1) what's the difference between cheese in other games and XvSF?
2) why is XvSF not being played to the same degree of these other games?
3) are you gonna come out to evo/canadian nationals/online and learn one of the deepest fighting games ever made?

learn more about this game here: http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=70122

[Dark Geese]

Good thread :tup: Lets help promote this game and spread it out so everyone efforts dont go to waste to the rest of America.

[SaBrE]

the problem is xsf is busted beyond all hell. every single hit leads to a braindead infinite. i can teach a rookie dominant infinites in 5 minutes. throws are extremely overpowered, and for some reason, is very hard to tech. you can see a throw coming a mile away in xsf, and still not be able to tech, its so random. then you got dizzy BS, *COUGH...storm...COUGH*

dont get me wrong, i love my xsf. i used to be insanely good at the game playing with xsf legends like dogface since my teenage days when the game was new, but the game breaks so fast, even in low level play, that it becomes a terrible competitive game. the game will never come back to be a major fighter.

great game for combo exhibitions, insane creativity with the very loose combo engine, and casual. absolutely ass in tourney. dogface gonna hate me for saying that =( i still love the game tho for casual, always will.

xsf has a little following at ffa with the guidance of dogface and megamanDS, and some canadians. but nothing serious. i think we only had 20-25 people or so at evo this past year? correct me if im wrong, i cant remember.

[Alucard20]

^what SaBrE said^





and I rather play marvel vs capcom.

[Gasp]

the problem is xsf is busted beyond all hell. every single hit leads to a braindead infinite. i can teach a rookie dominant infinites in 5 minutes. throws are extremely overpowered, and for some reason, is very hard to tech. you can see a throw coming a mile away in xsf, and still not be able to tech, its so random. then you got dizzy BS, *COUGH...storm...COUGH*

dont get me wrong, i love my xsf. i used to be insanely good at the game playing with xsf legends like dogface since my teenage days when the game was new, but the game breaks so fast, even in low level play, that it becomes a terrible competitive game. the game will never come back to be a major fighter.

great game for combo exhibitions, insane creativity with the very loose combo engine, and casual. absolutely ass in tourney. dogface gonna hate me for saying that =( i still love the game tho for casual, always will.

xsf has a little following at ffa with the guidance of dogface and megamanDS, and some canadians. but nothing serious. i think we only had 20-25 people or so at evo this past year? correct me if im wrong, i cant remember.


but theres a lot of games that have that 1 hit wrecks ya style of gameplay

ive seen alot of canadian xvsf match vids and the game seems really intense and fun

but seriously why isn't A3 an Evo game?

[AMinorThreat]

but theres a lot of games that have that 1 hit wrecks ya style of gameplay

ive seen alot of canadian xvsf match vids and the game seems really intense and fun

but seriously why isn't A3 an Evo game?

Because of Kindevu.

[SuicidalGrandpa]

Online play? tell me more...

[umthrfkr]

thank god u were at evo sabre. or else i woulda been the worst player there.:wgrin:

[SaBrE]

thank god u were at evo sabre. or else i woulda been the worst player there.:wgrin:

haha thats what happens when you dont touch the game anymore hehe, fucker!

button mash: i dont know of any other game that has a tourney scene that has an easy infinite that you can learn in 5 minutes that is way too good. not even mvc2, and that game is absolutely nothing in comparison to xsf on bs factor, not even close

[ImPerfectCell]

haha thats what happens when you dont touch the game anymore hehe, fucker!

button mash: i dont know of any other game that has a tourney scene that has an easy infinite that you can learn in 5 minutes that is way too good. not even mvc2, and that game is absolutely nothing in comparison to xsf on bs factor, not even close

Heres some infinites i learned in less than 5 minutes:
Storm: FP throw into wall, jump fp throw again, [LA up, LA down, repeat]

Juggy: c.FP, sj.jp, sp, fp, [j.fp repeat until dizzy] after dizzy, repeat until dead

Mag: [s.rk xx hypergrav]

come on man, u know I can go on.

Im sorry, but even though marvel is more random, and the game breaks almost randomly, and u can probably get alot further if u mash buttons, u simply cannot compare ANY game to XVSSF. Its just not the same. U get thrown in that game and ur dead. Another problem is the dizzy system. its not like marvel where u get dizzy and ur safe. On there u get dizzy and u sit there waiting for another infinite. I love xmen. I couldnt wait for them to get it back at CTF. I played in Newark every day for years. But as far as competitive play, I cant do it. I would like to see the game come back, but im not sure alot of people could handle it.

[Pereira]

throws are extremely overpowered, and for some reason, is very hard to tech.
After infinites, this is easily the part about the game that bugs me the most. Doesn't matter if you see the throw coming, it's still got a good chance to land

against me anyway :(

[Vidness]

Heh, of the infinites mentioned, I would have thought Cyclops, Wolvie, and Sabertooth cheese would come into play. I'll admit, I love me some XvSF Rogue and Akuma. And a Raging Demon that costs only one level but maintains all the sick damage and a free OTG afterwards? SWEET!

[evilmuffinmanX]

crap about easy unskillful infs B.S

**looks at cody AV**

:rolleyes: :lol: :confused:

[nomrah]

Online play? tell me more...

I think he's talking about Kaillera.

[Khiempossible]

Heres some infinites i learned in less than 5 minutes:
Storm: FP throw into wall, jump fp throw again, [LA up, LA down, repeat]

Juggy: c.FP, sj.jp, sp, fp, [j.fp repeat until dizzy] after dizzy, repeat until dead

Mag: [s.rk xx hypergrav]

come on man, u know I can go on.

Im sorry, but even though marvel is more random, and the game breaks almost randomly, and u can probably get alot further if u mash buttons, u simply cannot compare ANY game to XVSSF. Its just not the same. U get thrown in that game and ur dead. Another problem is the dizzy system. its not like marvel where u get dizzy and ur safe. On there u get dizzy and u sit there waiting for another infinite. I love xmen. I couldnt wait for them to get it back at CTF. I played in Newark every day for years. But as far as competitive play, I cant do it. I would like to see the game come back, but im not sure alot of people could handle it.

see, I'm of the mind: don't get hit by infinites. All infinites require you to make a mistake first. so if you're hit by an infinite, it's your fault.

I'll even use your examples to highlight common mistakes people make.

Storm: FP throw into wall, jump fp throw again, [LA up, LA down, repeat]

1. you were in the corner. That's a huge mistake.
2. you could have teched the throw.
3. you could have teched the second throw.

this infinite capitalizes on the fact that you've made 3 mistakes. (being in the corner is the biggest one).

Juggy: c.FP, sj.jp, sp, fp, [j.fp repeat until dizzy] after dizzy, repeat until dead

this infinite is even harder to land.

1. you have to be in the corner
2. you had to get hit be juggs' slow as fuck f.FP. seriously. that move is so slow and so punishable that i hardly ever see jugg players landing this move/infinite. maybe once in 3 matches.

here, being cornered by juggs was a huge mistake. with jugg's weight and poor maneuvarability, you had to have made a good 5-6 mistakes to end up in the corner.
being hit by jugg's c.FP is just as bad.

mag's s.RH xx hypergrav.

this is the easiest infinite to land that you've mentioned. the likeliest way that it's gonna land is glitch throw from anywhere, or random hypergrav. you can also do it off of c.RH, but that's 1) technical and 2) rollable. At any rate, you still had to have made a couple mistakes to get hit by it.

Basically though, I wanted to emphasize the fact that XvSF is like street fighter 2. Street Fighter 2 was about spacing more than anything else. once ryu put you in the corner, you were essentially fireball trapped til the end of the round. In xmen, once someone puts you in the corner, consider yourself infinited until your next character comes in.

Some of you might see Xmen as a game like 3rd strike, where you guess high/low wrong once, and instead of eating super you eat an infinite.

However, generally you need to be in the corner for this to work (wolvie, mags, storm, charlie and zangief are the only characters who can really infinite you from mid screen. I see xmen more like Street Fighter 2, where both players need to play defensively in a fight for control. Both players are trying to force the other player into the corner so they can land their infinite. There's many ways to do this, and each "strategy" that you employ to take control of the match has a counter. Very much like Street Fighter 2.

you might think that a mag's player who triangle jumps -> low roundhouse xx sj add c.short c.roundhouse xx [hypergravs s.roundhouse] xNs you is really gay. But there were probably a good 6 to 10 things you did wrong before being hit.

you probably weren't spacing mags out/in enough, meaning that a triangle jump was a legitimate attack for mags.
you probably weren't in a defensive position to defend against the attack (aka you just whiffed a move)
you failed to anti air his triangle jump LK or MK.
you failed to block his mixup properly.
you failed to roll his c.RH

getting hit by other infinites requires just as many mistakes.

Xmen is not a random game. It's not a game of bullshit. there's lot's of cheese in it, but it's no worse than yun players who parry -> jab strong fierce activate -> 70%.

Xmen is a game of attrition, between two players who are fighting for control. It's a game of deep strategy and counter strategy. it's a game of mistakes that requires perfect play, cause some mistakes just might cost you your character.

that said, xmen is more lenient than you guys give it credit for. sure if you get one character infinited it sucks, however, there's still a second character. And if you claim 1 mistake cost you your character, then prove that you're a better player and capitalize on two of your opponents mistakes and win the match.

I've seen lot's of people tell me that infinites make the game really cheesy, and that anybody can learn how to do basic infinites in 5 minutes. However, I've never EVER seen anyone succeed on that knowledge alone. The best xmen players do not easily get hit by infinites.

[AMinorThreat]

You don't need to throw with storm do the the lightning attack infinite... you can just use lightning attack like marvel and win a match...

[Return of Shiki]

XvSF is dead and should stay dead.

[DarkBuu]

see, I'm of the mind: don't get hit by infinites. All infinites require you to make a mistake first. so if you're hit by an infinite, it's your fault.

I'll even use your examples to highlight common mistakes people make.

Storm: FP throw into wall, jump fp throw again, [LA up, LA down, repeat]

1. you were in the corner. That's a huge mistake.
2. you could have teched the throw.
3. you could have teched the second throw.

this infinite capitalizes on the fact that you've made 3 mistakes. (being in the corner is the biggest one).

Juggy: c.FP, sj.jp, sp, fp, [j.fp repeat until dizzy] after dizzy, repeat until dead

this infinite is even harder to land.

1. you have to be in the corner
2. you had to get hit be juggs' slow as fuck f.FP. seriously. that move is so slow and so punishable that i hardly ever see jugg players landing this move/infinite. maybe once in 3 matches.

here, being cornered by juggs was a huge mistake. with jugg's weight and poor maneuvarability, you had to have made a good 5-6 mistakes to end up in the corner.
being hit by jugg's c.FP is just as bad.

mag's s.RH xx hypergrav.

this is the easiest infinite to land that you've mentioned. the likeliest way that it's gonna land is glitch throw from anywhere, or random hypergrav. you can also do it off of c.RH, but that's 1) technical and 2) rollable. At any rate, you still had to have made a couple mistakes to get hit by it.

Basically though, I wanted to emphasize the fact that XvSF is like street fighter 2. Street Fighter 2 was about spacing more than anything else. once ryu put you in the corner, you were essentially fireball trapped til the end of the round. In xmen, once someone puts you in the corner, consider yourself infinited until your next character comes in.

Some of you might see Xmen as a game like 3rd strike, where you guess high/low wrong once, and instead of eating super you eat an infinite.

However, generally you need to be in the corner for this to work (wolvie, mags, storm, charlie and zangief are the only characters who can really infinite you from mid screen. I see xmen more like Street Fighter 2, where both players need to play defensively in a fight for control. Both players are trying to force the other player into the corner so they can land their infinite. There's many ways to do this, and each "strategy" that you employ to take control of the match has a counter. Very much like Street Fighter 2.

you might think that a mag's player who triangle jumps -> low roundhouse xx sj add c.short c.roundhouse xx [hypergravs s.roundhouse] xNs you is really gay. But there were probably a good 6 to 10 things you did wrong before being hit.

you probably weren't spacing mags out/in enough, meaning that a triangle jump was a legitimate attack for mags.
you probably weren't in a defensive position to defend against the attack (aka you just whiffed a move)
you failed to anti air his triangle jump LK or MK.
you failed to block his mixup properly.
you failed to roll his c.RH

getting hit by other infinites requires just as many mistakes.

Xmen is not a random game. It's not a game of bullshit. there's lot's of cheese in it, but it's no worse than yun players who parry -> jab strong fierce activate -> 70%.

Xmen is a game of attrition, between two players who are fighting for control. It's a game of deep strategy and counter strategy. it's a game of mistakes that requires perfect play, cause some mistakes just might cost you your character.

that said, xmen is more lenient than you guys give it credit for. sure if you get one character infinited it sucks, however, there's still a second character. And if you claim 1 mistake cost you your character, then prove that you're a better player and capitalize on two of your opponents mistakes and win the match.

I've seen lot's of people tell me that infinites make the game really cheesy, and that anybody can learn how to do basic infinites in 5 minutes. However, I've never EVER seen anyone succeed on that knowledge alone. The best xmen players do not easily get hit by infinites.

Part of the problem of this game is that ppl think that rejump jab strong fierce infinites are kool and necessary to win. Wellllllll their not kool and they arent necessary. You wanna do an inifinte? Do some kool combo video shit, if not than im not gonna be impressed by any simple infinite that u can do. And Mag shit is not really much impressive anymore so keep that shit to urself.
Then theres the ppl who know that u know how and can do a bullshit infinite on them but you choose not to in order to make the match more interesting, and what do they do in return? Hit u with an infinite cuz u grabbed them with wolverine 10 times and hit em wit bullshit air combos, I guess they find the 10 grabs embarrassing and some how make themselves feel better with baby infinites?
Then theres the runaway storm ppl. Storm is such a cunt in this game. She can make just about any hit from anywhere on the screen into an infinite, re-dizzy sooo easily, and she can run away in here worse then mvc2.
And like said before grabs in this game are soooooo fukin random, that wouldnt be soo bad if it wasnt for the infinites that followed them.
I understand where ur trying to get at but this game is just not tourny worthy, its just tooo damn broken.

[True Grave]

XMvsSF is a fun entry in the series, and the CLASSIC that marked the 1st of the Tag-Team games.

However I would not expect it to get much tournament attention, especially with MVC2 around with its superior character selection alone.

[SaBrE]

**looks at cody AV**

:rolleyes: :lol: :confused:

cody infinite doesnt take 5 minutes to learn. the point seemed to just fly right over your head! lol

[ImPerfectCell]

Well if u treat xmen more like sf2 then it makes more sense. But most people are gonna wanna play it like a slower mvc2 without assists

[jimmy1200]

dont get hit by infinites:rofl: . i have yet to see a high level match in xvsf where someone was not getting ass fucked by an infinite. yes some of the infinites you mentioned can be techd, but so what. i would admit it takes skill on a basic level of the game. playin mind games, knowing your mixups, being sure to tech shit, knowin your characters and others, and what beats what, ect..... and then after all that, its all about infinites. point blank period. every high level match, tourney or casual, is always filled with infinites. sometimes they mess up, alot of times they dont.
any game is competitively playable, as long as there are people playin it, and as long as there are more than two characters to pick. no matter how broken or glitchy it is, i like the game, and i love watching the vids, takes me back to the good ol days when arcades were abundant.
but dont try to tone down xvsf, when the game is blatantly off the fucking chain. your gonna make a mistake. you cant block everything, and the worst part of this game, is that if you make a mistake against any high level players,thats your fucking life. ive seen wolvies half screen infinite, shit was crazy. most of the characters will own you for free on a simple mistake, and thats just the nature of the game, but people love that, and i enjoy it to. i accept it for what it is, and thats the only way to enjoy xvsf competitively. other than that, your just gonna be wasting time disecting this and that. who cares. learn to play the game and get good at it, or pick something thats more your cup of tea. its so simple

[DS]

However I would not expect it to get much tournament attention, especially with MVC2 around with its superior character selection alone.


Sentinel/Storm/Magneto/Cable

The most diverse character selection ever.

[T-Kimura]

nope, it isn't.

[Red Exodus]

XvSF is dead and should stay dead.

Seconded.

[totaltoanage]

Sentinel/Storm/Magneto/Cable

The most diverse character selection ever.
its not about characters selection but what can you do with those characters.

[True Grave]

Sentinel/Storm/Magneto/Cable

The most diverse character selection ever.

Well i was speaking of all the other characters and not just the God-Tiers.

The immense team-creation potential is just not there in the other titles.

its not about characters selection but what can you do with those characters.

Yes.

Being able to build a Fun team-up of Silver Samurai, Dan, and Charlie for example. Only in MvC2.

[Higher-Jin]

People like to talk shit about mvc2, but xvsf infinites are way worse. Each infinite is 100% and a lot of them are pretty braindead (Jump foward hp, hk with sabretooth on standing opponent or crouching juggernaut is one that comes to mind).

Then you got throws that lead into them and it just becomes ridiculous. I just don't see it as a possibly competitive game. Don't get me wrong, it's no SVC chaos, but I doubt we'll be adding a xvsf section anytime soon.

P.S: Storm is broken as hell

[KrassHole]

There is only a few busted things about Xmen.

Magnetos HP throw (untechable)

Cyclops.

Everything else shouldnt be too much a big deal. If you get caught in an infinite and die, whats preventing you from doing that to someone with your next character?

Also saying they're "easy" is a moot point once you get to a certain level. There are very few "difficult" combos in MvC2 (or any game for that matteR) when you've played it for 5+ years.

[Xenozip.]

^
So in your opinion, is it worth playing with Cyc and Mags soft banned?

[HeartNana]

Well, if something is "difficult" it means that every once in a while, there'll be a screwup. Granted, the better players won't screw up as much, but when the infinite is braindead, even a halfway decent player can win just by getting two lucky hits into a super easy infinite twice. =P

[Dandy J]

Sentinel/Storm/Magneto/Cable

The most diverse character selection ever.

Actually...it is.

Zoning, rushdown, runaway, lockdown are all well represented here.

[Lantis]

Couldn't you Tech Hit out of Zangief's SPD in XSF?

That's some bonafide BS right there, kind sir. :tdown:

[T-Kimura]

why is that bs? it's still a throw and it takes tons of damage
and the thread starter heavily over exaggerated about the xvsf "scene".. xvsf is even dead online, the game should just stay dead everywhere... it's way too broken to be played competitvely in tournaments and shit but it's alright to do casuals with it and fuck around.

[Dios <-X->]

I think tech hitting out of SPD is indeed, bullshit. its a fucking command throw, opposite from a normal throw which i can understand, deals normal damage and everyone has. Imagine if you could tech Alex's powerbomb , necros slamdance, shuma goraths chaos dimension, or giefs final atomic buster. They are obviously harder to pull off then foward + punch or kick, and are more powerful. for these moves, to be tech'able, would be rediculous.

[KrassHole]

^
So in your opinion, is it worth playing with Cyc and Mags soft banned?

Its worth playing without anything banned. I'm just saying that those are the only 2 stupid things. A good cyclops can be pretty invincible and theres just nothing you can do, his moves have way too much priority and MOB does way too much damage. Not too mention he recovers instantly off any move he does.

[FMJaguar]

A big issue is going to be whether they are going to go through with the saturn downloads for ps3, if they do, and xsf is on that list, I would expect business to pick up a little.

[MegamanDS]

if the game is so random, how come dogface consistantly gets 1st at every tournament? how come no one can infinite him and beat him?

the game is not as random as you guys make it out to be. there is a lot of skill of getting that 1 hit and avoiding there 1 hit at the same time. you can also stay midscreen so that eliminates the chance of corner infinites. for those of you complaining about throws, STFU. tech hitting is not random, its the same thing for mvc2, 3s, cvs. you throw them the same time they throw you, you get the tech hit. you can mash if you want to guarentee it. granted, magnetos fp throw is untechable, but you can jab him out of it if you see it coming.

this game is alive and always be alive.

[dog-face]

Any game can be competitive. Seriously.

They may be broken as hell but people will still play hella broken games if they're fun to play. We played the HELL out of this game back in AZ. Sabre was so sharp he beat Combofiend in an AZ turney, and CF is NO JOKE!! Get hyphy!!

I mean, people played CvS1, A1, and a whole bunch more of "broken" games. Sure, those games were shitty and got abandoned. XvSF has always maintained a small loyal following.

XvSF is still alive because it's fun to play and the margin for being considered "good" is really small. A scrub can beat a good player if he gets that lucky hit.

What I think is more important is that this discussion is even occuring. This thread has over a 1,000 views. Goddamn. Who knew so many people were interested.

We still get about 10 entries on average at FFA tournaments. CvS2 averages 8. So the game gets love.

I may dislike Storm being God Tier, and I may hate getting infinited in casual play at Evo2k6 (espescially on MY sticks, on Free Play). Lol. But the game is fun.

That's why we all play any games. They're fun. Infintes do make the game kinda a headache, but at the last FFA turney, the two opponents would decide to use infinites or not. That's the best we could come up with to keep the game exciting and quasi-balanced.

XvSF will be around until a new Marvel game comes out that is just as fun. That of course will never happen, so XvSF LIVES!

BTW, everyone check out Marvel Ranbat2.6 on Denjin Video.com.

BTW2, MegamanDS is the best XvSF player in the universe.

[SaBrE]

if the game is so random, how come dogface consistantly gets 1st at every tournament? how come no one can infinite him and beat him?

the game is not as random as you guys make it out to be. there is a lot of skill of getting that 1 hit and avoiding there 1 hit at the same time. you can also stay midscreen so that eliminates the chance of corner infinites. for those of you complaining about throws, STFU. tech hitting is not random, its the same thing for mvc2, 3s, cvs. you throw them the same time they throw you, you get the tech hit. you can mash if you want to guarentee it. granted, magnetos fp throw is untechable, but you can jab him out of it if you see it coming.

this game is alive and always be alive.

bs, sorry, tech hit is random, or way too insanely strict to the frame. victor knows i can see a throw a mile away, hit the buttons, spam the correct buttons, well before the throw even makes contact, and still not get the tech. perfect example was when i played that sabretooth player at evo. it was the same thing everytime, like all sabretooths, launch, jab,short,strong, airthrow. not hard to see against any sabretooth player. that combo alone raped me cuz i could not tech it most of the time. he didnt catch me off guard, he was sneaky about it. i started spamming and drumming the appropriate buttons to get out of that throw before he even connected with the sj.jab, and still no tech. yay, no tech, no i eat dumb shit cuz of a highly inconsistent feature. I still have yet to see tech rules/frames. so im considering it hella random. the throws are way too easy to see coming, yet sometimes i get the tech, sometimes i dont. its very much so a 50/50 situation.

and i do think the whole game still has some randomness to it, that is more engine related, (ahem, DAMAGE, throw techs like said above). and easy infinites do randomly land on people. it doesnt happen to victor much tho cuz i think hes just that much better than everyone else. but just the fact that one lucky hit by the lesser player can potentially mean a braindead death. i dont mind randomness in the fighting style. every game has its random factor. but random as fuck damage dealing and scaling, and inconsistent techs are pretty silly to me.

dont get me wrong, i still love my xsf on a casual level. and i agree with my boy vic on pretty much everything, except the fact that we have to decide on house rules before the fight to determine if we are gonna turn the game into a bs fest or not. you know?

i just think its the most fun casual game around, thats all

[Shiro_420]

and the thread starter heavily over exaggerated about the xvsf "scene".. xvsf is even dead online, the game should just stay dead everywhere... it's way too broken to be played competitvely in tournaments and shit but it's alright to do casuals with it and fuck around.
I guess you don't know shit about the xvsf scene in Canada to begin with. Only someone who is ignorant as you would go and say such a stupid thing as that.

For one we get 16 entries here in Edmonton on average. SOrry to be the guy to tell you this but thats a pretty decent scene for one city. When I was IN ottawa 20 of the people who enterd the small xvsf tourney were from Ottawa. OH SHIT WTF IS THAT SCENE nah its just dead no one plays it.

You also don't know a fucking thing about the players in your own city. (but you don't leave your house to begin with so what does that matter)
Go back and pretend your kaillera mvc1 wins count you dumb cunt
if the game is so random, how come dogface consistantly gets 1st at every tournament? how come no one can infinite him and beat him?

the game is not as random as you guys make it out to be. there is a lot of skill of getting that 1 hit and avoiding there 1 hit at the same time. you can also stay midscreen so that eliminates the chance of corner infinites. for those of you complaining about throws, STFU. tech hitting is not random, its the same thing for mvc2, 3s, cvs. you throw them the same time they throw you, you get the tech hit. you can mash if you want to guarentee it. granted, magnetos fp throw is untechable, but you can jab him out of it if you see it coming.

this game is alive and always be alive.
preach on =p
Looking forward to seeing some matches soon

BTW2, MegamanDS is the best XvSF player in the universe.
LIES!!!! Toxy ftw

All I can say is, if we are seeing more and more xvsf ranbats/tournaments all over the place, with more and more people entering it all the time. Why would't it be a competitive game? I mean sure people who don't play the game can sit there and speculate or assume things about the game and how the scene is. But if you arnt active in the scene and you don't really know any thing about the game (beyond infinites are to easy or w/e) then I fail to see a reason in just simply saying the games dead and no one plays it.

meh here comes some majoy flaimage comming at me.

-Shiro

[jj_tactics]

Co-Sign Shiro., Xvsf is getting pretty hype in Canada! I'm even thinking of taking this game up.

[Sabin]

I don't even know what to say abou this..I'm on both sides of the fense, and I understand Sabre's points and the opposiing side as well.

At the very least, it's a interesting discussion :)

[dArK_rEnAgAdE]

Co-sign with Sabin

PS. T-kimura is a wrothless piece of shit. He plays Mvc1 online and says shit like I'm going to bed now I'm tierd of owning or some childish shit like that. He also is in love with tom willing. He also Looks liek Link.... If link gave hand jobs for crack.

NEXT!!!!

-RENAGADE OUT!

[Haseo]

Co-sign with Sabin

PS. T-kimura is a wrothless piece of shit. He plays Mvc1 online and says shit like I'm going to bed now I'm tierd of owning or some childish shit like that. He also is in love with tom willing. He also Looks liek Link.... If link gave hand jobs for crack.

NEXT!!!!

-RENAGADE OUT!

LOL

Edmonton > Ottawa for xvsf!

[Maj]

Sabin, i'm torn too. I want to support my new friend dogface but Sabre is the homie from IRC days. What would 2001 Sabre do?

[DS]

Very interesting discussion indeed. I have the game too. But, for some reason, I've never really gotten that extra push to play because there really isn't a scene for it in NYC. Although I haven't been to CF in a while, they have a cabinet there now and I don't know if it get's play.

Also, Shiro invited me to T8 for some XvSF. I still have the vids and FAQ he sent me. Thank you for that Shiro. But, yeah, maybe I will get into it.

[Shiro_420]

Very interesting discussion indeed. I have the game too. But, for some reason, I've never really gotten that extra push to play because there really isn't a scene for it in NYC. Although I haven't been to CF in a while, they have a cabinet there now and I don't know if it get's play.

Also, Shiro invited me to T8 for some XvSF. I still have the vids and FAQ he sent me. Thank you for that Shiro. But, yeah, maybe I will get into it.

1: Give me that ship in your post count!
2: If I catch you at T8, there will be xvsf
3: I'm playign sabin some mvc1 so we might as well have some games on that shit.

[Rage02fire]

snip

Now I don't play XvSF too much cause there's no comp here, but I DO agree on what you said about any game being playable for competition.

Now here's my 2 cents even though no one will care probably.:rofl:

Everyone seems to treat XvSF as casual fest, now that I can understand sucks cause the games I love get that type of treatment as well. Since in my area being NorCal no one even touches XvSF or any of the other underated (kofxi, gg, arcana heart, NGBC,MBAC ect.) games case they feel that shit is either broken or just for casual fun.

Now what's worst too is the comp in my section of NorCal only plays on arcades and our arcades don't wanna get those types of games. So it's really hard to always try to get new cats in the game all the time. I do feel though IF people would get over the so called Brokeness/it's due to the company sucking or that game is too flashy looks anime BS we'd get alot of comp in some of the old and new games of the scene imo.

It's just imo everyone seems to be ignorant before trying to look at the game at High Level comp. I've seen XvSF in High Level comp and it has alot of poetential to increase in comp if more people would be open minded. That's IMO though which again I doubt anyone cares about.=p

[Mixah]

Why even get on the age-old topic about Marvel's tiers? I'd rather have tiers that are inbalanced than have every character broken as fuck.

[MegamanDS]

this is one of the most balanced games as far as character selection. bison and gief are the only 2 that seem unplayable but even they have some tricks.

not balanced you say? you pick my 2 characters and play me for $$$

[CB]

haha thats what happens when you dont touch the game anymore hehe, fucker!

button mash: i dont know of any other game that has a tourney scene that has an easy infinite that you can learn in 5 minutes that is way too good. not even mvc2, and that game is absolutely nothing in comparison to xsf on bs factor, not even close

i said this a couple days ago, but it's true. atleast in mvc2, you have to go for a reset or trick before the guy gets dizzy.

only thing i like about xvsf is that everyone plays it in Ottawa.....i can't defend the bullshit in this game:sad:
i mean storm is wayyyy cheaper in xvsf than mvc2...full screen infinites are eassssyyyy
magnus is also cheaper in that, he doesn't need resets
chun-li....if she knocks you down and is close to you....forget it....just give up, there is no way to see the highlow coming....impossible.

i say all serious fights will be played with mag storm and chun-li....with the occaional charlie wolvi and clops......and mayyyyybbbbbbeeeeeee cammy.

[Sabin]

Sabin, i'm torn too. I want to support my new friend dogface but Sabre is the homie from IRC days. What would 2001 Sabre do?

my thoughts exactly.. Vic is the homie and so is Sabre.

It's like, Rise of the Kaillera Warriors with the MMDS+dogface assist. :rofl:
Yet the OG in me wants to say, fuck this game. But at the same time, I've always played in tourneys for this, and I played the games competively that Vic mentioned, like cvs1, a1, mvc1 etc so who am I to shit on a growing community.

ah, what to do... :lol:

[Return of Shiki]

Its not dead smart guy

I don't consider a handful of Canadians playing a infinite fest (which is boring to tears to watch), a "live" game.

[SaBrE]

dont get me wrong, i have nothing against the game being competitive, by any means. i would keep playing it. but i tell you what, the tourney would be more frustrating than any other game i can think of, in my eyes. its frustrating when playing someone not even on the same level as you, get a lucky ass hit and did an infinite that he practiced for about 3 minutes (obviously a little over exaggerating here =)) and wins the match.

but as much as i think the game has flaws, i still have a soft spot for it since back in the day when me and dogface were obsessed with the game back in 1996. and i would still support it. victor knows i would still support the game no matter what, he knows me well enough to know i will do that, just out of respect. =)

[BKB]

If this game had C-C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!!! or Guilty Gear's BURST...

Who's got a time machine?

[Khiempossible]

I think people will be surprised to see just how much work it takes to land that basic infinite.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=hhRV2qRcmsY
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ux7LE35THkU

I know when you watch dogface own scrubs at evo, all you seem to see is 2 and a half minutes of click ha ha, click ha ha, click ha ha.

And I think a lot of people fail to see how deep XvSF really is. I'd like to compare XvSF to CVS2, in that (as a wise man once told me) "In CVS2, it's really hard to attack, because NOTHING is free". Such is true for Xmen, anyway you try and land your infinite in Xmen has a counter, and that counter just might get you infinited. So at low levels, you see a lot of bullshit, cause higher level players will abuse bullshit that a lot of scrubs don't know how to deal with.

However, at high level play you'll, see Wolvies avoiding hit confirms with low strongs and low roundhouses, cause they know that shit is super punishable. You'll see wolvies carefully plan out their dive kicks, cause they know that a sharp opponent will launch that dive kick for a free infinte. you'll see wolvies empty divekick and drill claw away to bait out counter attacks (and possibly punish). You'll see wolvies jump in JAB cause they know that it beats chun li s.roundhouse. You'll see wolvies, whiff dive kick and land safely to bait out an anti air. You'll see wolvies wave dash back and forth, cause they know they can't get in, and try and bait out a whiff so they can dash punish. You'll see wolvies occasionaly do low strong, then cancel to beserker barrage/tornado claw, cause they know their opponent will super the low strong and punish the super with berserker barrage/tornado claw. you'll see defensive wolverine's who dash under your jumps and low strong your jump-in, cause your jump in beats their other anti air options. you'll see wolverine's block sonic booms and sonic breaks (despite the fact that they can duck under them) just so they can push block for spacing. You'll wolverine's not push some supers at all so they can maintain spacing. you'll see some wovlerine's switch when they see that sonic break cause their on low health, and having the second character take a couple hits is a good pay off.

Like I donno, that's just some wolverine tactics I see when I watch people play. I don't even play wolverine, but wolverine is hella deep strat wise. And just think all those strategies with wolverine have counter strategies.

[SaBrE]

callmeanewb: believe me, i know how to play a very mean wolvie, and i used to run marathons with dogface everyday. im not saying its ridiculously easy to land that one hit into infinite. im definitely not saying that at all. but some random lucky hit can make it in at any given time, even maybe on accident, and it can lead to death. it happens to everyone.

i dont believe in discussing theory fighter, since its only based around perfect players that never screw up. and thats the point, people screw up, lucky hits get in, even for a scrub, and it can change the whole dynamic of a match, even if its a scrub. i just dont like that.

just an IMO

[F.Y.C.N.]

i was wondering about this too... to me XvSF is the only versus game that felt like street fighter... if that makes any sense.

also its good to see the tiers balanced between the two parties involved... mind you this doesnt make or break a game its just good to see

[aznretro]

LOL

Edmonton > Ottawa for xvsf!

TALK PAS SHIT!!!!!!

Ottawa > edmonton in XVSF

If u think ur so good, we should do a 5v5 against us this year sometime in xvsf

[Clear Sky]

Why is XvSF pretty popular in Canada?

[TS]

All I know is I was way impressed when I went to Evo this year and saw some people who were crazy in this game. I thought the game was garbage, but there was such a big gap between a scrub (like myself, who played 1 game pretending I was playing MvC2 without assists and got rocked) and someone who was actually good at the game, it made it real easy to respect high level XSF, even with the infinites.

But I don't play, so that's just my 2 cents.

[KrassHole]

Why is XvSF pretty popular in Canada?

No clue. Could be the same reason A3 is popular in Toronto now for some reason. I like it cause its kinda like a cross between Marvel and CvS2 and rediculous combo's are too fun to pull off making someone say "oh shit!!" doesn't happen to often but its still nice doing rediculous combo's in matches.

Better watch it at T8 shiro, Imma take you out son!

[Lantis]

Why is XvSF pretty popular in Canada?

Must be the moose juice. Who knows? :confused:

[jreinert13]

I personally can't see how XvSF isn't competitively playable. It has a lot of bullshit; but I don't think this bullshit renders it unplayable. My city alone proves this because it is very competitive game here(maybe the most).

It resembles the original SF concept in that so much imbalance creates a balance.

Breaking it down simplistically:
- There a LOT of playable characters (nearly the whole cast)
- The more intelligent player will win consistently (sounds obvious but this is a problem with imbalanced games).
- The game is fun to play and watch (at least the people here think so)

What exactly makes it unplayable? The priorities, easy combos, cheap tactics (Storm, Chun) can be fustrating but the great thing about this game is most of these are accessible for every character.
The game does create plenty of injustice but it still usually derives from a mistake. This makes it interesting to me because you have play very tight/cautious but aggressive at the same time.

[SaBrE]

balance isnt even the issue in the game. xsf is insanely balanced. everyone has massive bs tactics to win. i only put storm head and shoulders above the best for obvious reasons.

i think most agree the game is pretty balanced due to the high bs nature of the game. its the simplicity of some of the dominant stuff that gets to me, is all

[jreinert13]

balance isnt even the issue in the game. xsf is insanely balanced. everyone has massive bs tactics to win. i only put storm head and shoulders above the best for obvious reasons.

i think most agree the game is pretty balanced due to the high bs nature of the game. its the simplicity of some of the dominant stuff that gets to me, is all

The game get to me too. Mistakes, which are unavoidable, are so greatly punished it's just wrong.

I just feel balance has a huge part in it's competitve playability.

I do see a lot of non-bs tactics as well..I don't want that to be left out. Even still, a lot of bs tactics can turn into an interesting match with the right players behind them. It just gets fustrating when a scrub uses them against you because they get a more reward out of them then they should.

[Shiro_420]

Well all I can say is that for some of the Ranbats we run here in Edmonton, We imply a no basic infinite rule. Doing this takes away alot of the randomness. Honestly it makes the game harder because you have to poke alot more and punish simple mistakes.

Like ok I'm not going to claim to be a good player or top player or any thing of that nature. But you can see in this match here that implying a no basic infinite rules DEMANDS a more tatical play

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoy3WQ9me9Y

[DS]

1: Give me that ship in your post count!

If you suck my dick in an Edmonton back alley....maybe. But other than, you have to work for it. =p

2: If I catch you at T8, there will be xvsf

I really don't think T8 is in my future. No one to go with. :sad:

3: I'm playign sabin some mvc1 so we might as well have some games on that shit.


:sad:

[Shiro_420]

.
If you suck my dick in an Edmonton back alley....maybe.

No homo NO HOMO


I really don't think T8 is in my future. No one to go with. :sad:
Go with the Empire you lazy bastard[/QUOTE]

[MegamanDS]

deathscythe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i love you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DS]

Go with the Empire you lazy bastard

Maybe....I could consider it. It's just a matter of when and how I can get some quick cash for it. =/


deathscythe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i love you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I don't know if I should lower my guard for this one. I mean, I took away your precious 60 second rule. What is it that you want? Make yourself clear. Or face my wrath.

[SaBrE]

Well all I can say is that for some of the Ranbats we run here in Edmonton, We imply a no basic infinite rule. Doing this takes away alot of the randomness. Honestly it makes the game harder because you have to poke alot more and punish simple mistakes.

Like ok I'm not going to claim to be a good player or top player or any thing of that nature. But you can see in this match here that implying a no basic infinite rules DEMANDS a more tatical play

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoy3WQ9me9Y

thats great and all, we already touched on this subject on the first page i believe. i think its silly, however, that we have to agree on house rules, to make a game more playable, you know. you shouldnt have to do that. having to do that just implies that the game does have major problems.

either way, to me, its not a big deal. the game is fun, and im all for keeping a game alive, i cant knock that

[Shiro_420]

True enough Sabre. Heeeey say you should come to T8 as well. I wanna see those xvsf skills (even if you dont think ya got any)

[Khiempossible]

so it's final then? we're all gonna go learn to play XvSF and come to evo and rape hard at this game?

[MegamanDS]

good luck :-)

[Master Chibi]

Thought I'd ask this here~

Is Cammy / Chun a bad team to roll with in this game?

I don't want too much in terms of execution requirements.

;P

[MegamanDS]

Thought I'd ask this here~

Is Cammy / Chun a bad team to roll with in this game?

I don't want too much in terms of execution requirements.

;P
vic rapes me hard with that team :sad:

[jreinert13]

Thought I'd ask this here~

Is Cammy / Chun a bad team to roll with in this game?

I don't want too much in terms of execution requirements.

;P

Good team but not much diversity. I'm not sure you'd enjoy fighting the often chosen Wolvie/Charlie team.
You'll find it hard to find a 'bad' team to roll with in this game

[Master Chibi]

My playstyle is simple and effective, and noone else in the game appeals me to really.

;p

[Khiempossible]

chun is by far the easiest character to succeed with in XvSF. you don't even need infinites. just bar.

[SaBrE]

chun is by far the easiest character to succeed with in XvSF. you don't even need infinites. just bar.

eh i dont agree. if you are good at iad mixups, she is damn near unstoppable. but it requires some practice for most people. granted she can just turtle up and just whore low forward super. which does work well. but it doesnt apply much pressure to the opponent. and her launcher is pretty abusable since it beats almost everything heh

i think for ease of use and great results, sabretooth, and especially juggernaut provide very fast results, granted, juggernaut is a huge target, but his super armor allows you to sneak in random grabs into headcrush for retarded damage. and sabretooth;s jumping ability is over the top effective, especially any character midsize or larger. he can be a bitch to get away from.

[Master Chibi]

well im not looking for great results either, i just dont want to pick a character that is simple to use but isn't actually effective / or outright dies because their simplicity. I already picked Chunners cuz I know she's braindead in this game so I don't mind putting work into a secondary like Rogue or Cammy, though I do love me some Juggernaughts~

i dont know if that came out right.

>_<

[SaBrE]

well like what magamands said, dogface is a freaking beast with cammy. very hard to hit and land damage on her. but i dont know of anyone else with a cammy like his, no one of his level. so take it with a grain of salt

[MegamanDS]

I don't know if I should lower my guard for this one. I mean, I took away your precious 60 second rule. What is it that you want? Make yourself clear. Or face my wrath.
with great power comes great responsiblity....

+ rep me and i will either teach you 1 character in this game or i will evo using 1 character of your choice. if you learn 1 character by me, your chances of coming in 2nd increase 10 fold.

[Shiro_420]

chun is by far the easiest character to succeed with in XvSF. you don't even need infinites. just bar.

BBBBBBBBBULL SHIT!

[KrassHole]

well im not looking for great results either, i just dont want to pick a character that is simple to use but isn't actually effective / or outright dies because their simplicity. I already picked Chunners cuz I know she's braindead in this game so I don't mind putting work into a secondary like Rogue or Cammy, though I do love me some Juggernaughts~

i dont know if that came out right.

>_<

Try Ryu. Easy combos that do big damage + Really easy infinite [s.mp -> f+mk]x25, you just gotta worry about blocking really.

[dog-face]

Wow, this thread is really hot. Even Sabin jumped in the mix?! Wow.

Truth be told, the Capcom SF choices to play these days is pretty limited. I mean, you have CvS2, MvC2, 3s and ST. Really, those are the like legitimate games.

But you know, there's hella fun games out there that are broken. Watch, if we throw MvC1 on for a while at EVO2k7, hella fools will line up to play. It's FUN.

And in XvSF, you can play a shoto, similar to pure SF. You can dp shit, bait, space, all the goods. Then you can throw Mags on the team, and play Marvel style. Where else can you do that? In MvC2, you sure as hell aren't going to play with OG SF strats in mind.

Like someone in this thread said, you CAN play XvSF like SF. You can't do that with Cota. Or MSH. God forbid MSF, where the nerfing and silliness began. MvC1 is great, but it's Marvel. I'm sure Sabin could win with Ryu, but I sure as hell coudln't. i'd play him like I do in XvSF, a mix of VS and SF, and that doesn't really work in MvC1. And with MvC2, well, you're playing MvC2.

And the reason infinites are in a way good, is because it makes EVERY character good. Now I'm not saying that people should infinite from 99 seconds. But you know that if I launch you with Wolv to Sim, from Cammy to Storm, they can ALL do 30% combos. Throw in a reset and you have a FUN game.

See, the people that just run immediately to Mag/Storm and whore out tri-jumps don't understand. This game isn't MvC2. Storm and Mag rock in MvC2, whilst Ryu and co kinda stink. New schoolers overlook the whole rest of the cast, thinking they're like MvC2, but they're not. Prozac Nation mentioned this, how all the XvSF crew pretty much got neutered. If Ryu could do the same shit in MvC2, he'd get hella play.

The game is balanced because of bad scaling, and infinites. Look at Juggs vs Storm. Juggs shouldn't win, but he CAN still win. A good Juggs can do it. A good Sim can do it. A good anyone can do it. And if you use a shitty character that can't beat Storm (sorry Gief), then you can play a whole SECOND character!!

I mean, how much better can it get!?

This game is having a resurgence because it's a fun fun fun fun game. Yesterday, me and NKI busted out Mario Kart on N64. Sure that game is hella old for a VIDEO GAME(1996), and yeah, we all know the shortcuts, and yeah sure there's Mario Kart DS, but still Mario Kart 64 was HELLA fun. We had a blast. Everyone who played that game, reading this, knows exactly what I mean. If I rang your doorbell right now, and had my 64, we could play and have fun. That's XvSF.

The learning curve, and infinites give everyone a chance. Think about this, if there were no ifinites, what would be the tiers? Double Storm would just runaway (even moreso then now), and do heavy damage combos for wins. Juggs would be sick. But what about the rest? Not saying you need infinites. But the engine that allows infinites, is why I can do two throws in a combo with Ryu into OTG. Why Charlie can do an air combo, throw you, OTG, and keep going. That shit is hella fun!!

Infintes are a choice players have to make. Capcom will never fix this. It's not saying we should softban, but just decide how you want to play XvSF, and play with those people. In AZ, we played years with infinites being unofficially softbanned. That made us so much more well rounded than the infinite scrubs who only knew that. Take two players, one who knows how to play the game and CAN infinite, and some scrub who just infinites. Sure, scrub will win "some" games, but chances are the other player will know resets, tricks, setups, and have a whole developed game WHILE also knowing infinites.

XvSF is a blast. People should recognize that with the FFA Ranbats, EVO, Canada, etc. that XvSF has a ressurection. People can raise their nose at it and say, "that game is broken." Well, me and the guys playing the broken game will be having hella fun at EVO while people stare at RCs in CvS2 on the big screen, or Chun vs Chun is 3S.

Not liking XvSF is shooting yourself in the foot as a SF player. This game is for ALL SF players. Marvel players can play vs Alpha 2 players. What otehr game can you get this in? I mean, for god sakes, Yipes can play this game. But so can James Chen. Where else does that happen? Even if this game just stays the fun black sheep of SF, it still should get play. Why not? It's fun.

Everyone should get this game, read James Chen's very comprehensive FAQ on Gamefaqs. Start the game, look at the character select screen, pick charaters you like. Characters you identofy with. You are not bound with tiers in this game. You can win with practically anyone. Learn a character. Sure learn his/her infinite, but also learn fun flashy combos. Fancy stuff. And when you're friend comes over, and your'e sick of MvC2/3S/CvS2, pop this game on and have fun, try to show off, and challenge your brain. Any SF player, anyone that can throw a fireball can play this game.

It's exactly what Capcom fighting games should be. It's what HF was. Every character is good, and with ifinites, EVERY character can win.

Is the game Competitive?

Yes.

Is the game Playable?

Yes.

Is the game competitively playable?

Well, that depends on how you want to play.

-Vix

[FMJaguar]

Which is the official version of xsf that is used in events?

[dog-face]

FMJ,

The official version would be Version 2.

At both EVO2k5 and 2k6, we played on Supergun. 2k5 was on Cigarbob's mammoth sticks. Then in 2k6, I used my own OG Cigarbob sticks.

We always used Version 2.

Saturn is damn near perfect but it's Version 3, which is not the Version that the United States received as a whole.

[Shiro_420]

DOG FACE YOU ARE MY HEROE

So for those nah sayers. Xvsf is on the rise and yes it will ALWAYS stay as a side tourney and nothing more. But thats good enough for me. I'm fine with a "big" xvsf oturney only getting 32 peeps. It's fine by me. See yall at EV--- maybe..

[SaBrE]

vic: i first would just like to say I LOVE YOU!

2nd, that was a well typed post. andi actually agree with it all. i guess in the end, its just what you prefer. i think thats the reason i fell out of xsf, i loved the way we always played back in AZ. i never got bored. then i didnt play as much (mainly cuz you left), then all these infinite fools come in and wax me with scrubby infinites. cant stand that in casual, but it is what it is. i still think the og AZ crew and xsf was some of the most fun times i had with fighting games with my homies, like you.

either way, ima represent the game til i die, even if i shun certain aspects of the game, even if i dont play anymore. maybe ill have some tricks up my sleeve for next evo. who knows? i can be crafty at times =)

vic, gimme a call sometime buddy!

[MegamanDS]

vic IS xmvsf

[DS]

with great power comes great responsiblity....

+ rep me and i will either teach you 1 character in this game or i will evo using 1 character of your choice. if you learn 1 character by me, your chances of coming in 2nd increase 10 fold.



Hmmm....I'll take the bait.

*pos rep*

And I'll want to learn Cyclops.

EDIT - I can't give you rep for some reason. So, you'll still teach me, right?

[Shiro_420]

Why ask him when I'm the guy with almost 200 xvsf match/combo/strat/rnadomness on youtube?

[DS]

Why ask him when I'm the guy with almost 200 xvsf match/combo/strat/rnadomness on youtube?


I feel like the lucky girl at prom night. Two guys fighting for my love. You just need to get on AIM more. Life sucks for the both of us. Accursed adulthood.

[Shiro_420]

I feel like the lucky girl at prom night. Two guys fighting for my love. You just need to get on AIM more. Life sucks for the both of us. Accursed adulthood.

Work OWNS the soul!

[MegamanDS]

Hmmm....I'll take the bait.

*pos rep*

And I'll want to learn Cyclops.

EDIT - I can't give you rep for some reason. So, you'll still teach me, right?
tsk tsk, you have to rep more people before you can rerep me. i wonder when you gave me the neg rep.

cyclops eh? you made a good choice because hes my 2nd best character. you wont be disappointed once i receive the rep saying "your the best DS, from DS"

[dArK_rEnAgAdE]

I Am The Greatest Cyclops Player Ever!!!!

[MegamanDS]

who has won 1 10man tourney in his career

[Shiro_420]

I Am The Greatest Cyclops Player Ever!!!!

surely you jest!

[Maj]

Damn, Vic's post makes me want to learn XSF for real.

Callmeanewb: You should edit your first post to include a link to the XSF strategy thread.

[Akutabi Gamma]

Well if memory serves me right, isn't the Saturn ver. of the game more balanced?
Will they use that ver. should they ever get their hands on one?
*COUGHCOUGHTORRENTCOUGHCOUGH*

[SaBrE]

version3/saturn was poorly received in the arcades. most people have no experience with it. whether its more balanced is kinda moot. most of the bs is still there. dhalsim gets raped to the point where hes pretty much useless, they do fix his recovery bug, so no more free combos. but they made him sooooo bad to use. the only other notable changes is mags up throw is gone, cyke's flying screen causes the opponent to go down, changing his standard corner combo(you can still do crazy shit, just not as easy), and storms flying screen is affected as well, changing her corner combos drastically. and her lightning attack changed. but shes still easily the best character. the tiers dont shift much, except for dhalsim being useless.

version 2 is preferred in US. everywhere else is pretty much version 1. v1 is hella preferred by ryu/akuma players. lol

[MegamanDS]

i play v.1 and v.2, there isn't many major difference except shotos.

i played v.3 alot. to me, it is playable but my characters that i use changed alot so i have to change my play style quite a bit.

cyclops
- no corner infinite (fp shoots them straight down like in mvc2)

magneto
- you can not throw up with fp throw
- fp throw i believe is techable

storm
- no corner infinite (again, fp shoots them straight down)
- they get recovery after lightning attack (ie. marvel style)

dhalsim
- you have to wait till the peak of his jump to do his drills


and those are my main 4 characters so it is a little bit of a difficult transition. i believe everyone else is left the same. oh, wolverines drill claw, they can recover afterword so if you do hit them right away with rh they can block.

[SaBrE]

well with storm, you can still hold up and do fierce, rh on version 3, but its much stricter and not as reliable as the stuff you do with storm. she can still do nasty stuff tho in the corner.

i believe you are right about mags throw being techable.

cyclops corner combos are more intense on timing on v3, but i find them more interesting and you can pull off some wild stuff with it. im sure victor remember some stuff that me and cigarbob used to pull off back in the day.

dhalsim tho, it sucks being a sim user in v3. every sim user would rather take the recovery bug so they can have fast drills. the drills are what makes sim good.

i honestly like v3 just cuz it has different combo possibilities. but i dont like it as well cuz of sim nerfing.

[Khiempossible]

do you think if this game gets big enough, that it might be possible to put on the official game list of evo? I'm thinking no, cause evo is all console. But I'm sure something could be done about it.

insane

...

[SaBrE]

xsf will never go evo. i can assure you that. unless it got an appropriate console port and the game became insanely huge. but it wont get a real port so the chances are insanely slim by default

[FMJaguar]

do you think if this game gets big enough, that it might be possible to put on the official game list of evo? I'm thinking no, cause evo is all console. But I'm sure something could be done about it.


How Bout:

- Getting the support for an actual main tourney anywhere at all where it's not a side event
- Have a ranbat or some series of dedicated players, didn't ffa try that, not sure what happened there.
- Post those vids on the net
- Fill out the xsf wiki which is empty, and/or get permission from james and chop up his xsf faq and get it there

[Khiempossible]

How Bout:

- Getting the support for an actual main tourney anywhere at all where it's not a side event
- Have a ranbat or some series of dedicated players, didn't ffa try that, not sure what happened there.
- Post those vids on the net
- Fill out the xsf wiki which is empty, and/or get permission from james and chop up his xsf faq and get it there

you mean like this (http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=123642) or this (http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=125691)?

Good thinking. I'll see if we can get the wiki filled up in the XvSF strat thread.

[xorthen]

I'd just make infintes bannable. Then it'd be fair.

[KrassHole]

I'd just make infintes bannable. Then it'd be fair.

Spoken like a true scrub. I'll kill u instantly w/o infinites.

[Shiro_420]

Spoken like a true scrub. I'll kill u instantly w/o infinites.
FEAL DA POWA OF EX_MATT!!!!

[Prozac`Nation]

Infinites are secondary. Other people have brought it up.

You show me a player who's ill with infinites, my basics and technique will own him. He'll never get the chance.

You show me a player with a better grip on the game, who knows how to handle spacing / priority better than I do, and I'll lose. Even if I can go to sleep doing charlie reps.


Not saying 100% of the time, but the overwhelming majority. The tactics in this game are "tight". New players often don't get it, because they get mopped with tactics AND infinites, so they chalk it up to the cheese combos.

Think of it this way. Chun is top tier. Doesn't use infs. Gambit is top tier. Has infs, doesn't need them. Rogue is hella good, if not tops. Doesn't need infs. All these players will just straight up rape, because of the tactics they provide. They straight up rape, when put up AGAINST top tier characters that "do" use infs.

I've been playing this shiz for ages, and seriously, it's just fun. 99% of the people that I've played will tell you I'm pretty damn good, and my "best characters" have ranged from Charlie, every shoto(First Akuma, then Ken, then Ryu. They're all beast), to Gambit. I don't use infs in casual, and still dominate new players that do, with ease. IMHO, the reason players that jump in this game expecting to win with easy infs, will never be tops.. Is because they never put the time into learning the shit underneath.

You can practice Cyc FP Throw -> Corner Inf all you want. You're gonna be doing a dumbass bullet as I jump in on you, and feel pretty stupid. And it'll be damn fun.


Last thing, someone said Jugg was good for new players. Nah. Jugg is powerful, yes, but any good player will take him apart easily, unless the Jugg "really" knows his shit. You have to know your matchups to win with him. Know how to spam d.s.twd.fierce to trade with fireball spam, know what to counter with headcrush(Good timing vs Hail Startup, I.E. Hyper Gravs, Mid Screen FBs, etc etc), know what you can command grab through, etc etc. Cancelling fierces into command grab is a must, of course. The fact that the slow bastard can still win against people who should be able to punish "everything", is just too good.

[Dios <-X->]

teach me xvs

[Robinho]

I think the idea of filling the wiki section is good, so people that have never played (like me) could learn more about strategies and gameplay. Sure, the thread in 'other games' forums is great, but it's too big and hard to search, unlike the wiki, which is a great and organizated place

[MegamanDS]

I agree with PN, soooooo many scrubs at FFA know how to infinite, but they will never in there life land the hit on me to start it. i also agree with the second part, get a guy that knows the game, even if he doesnt do infinites, can still win.

[Shiro_420]

How Bout:

- Getting the support for an actual main tourney anywhere at all where it's not a side event
- Have a ranbat or some series of dedicated players, didn't ffa try that, not sure what happened there.
- Post those vids on the net
- Fill out the xsf wiki which is empty, and/or get permission from james and chop up his xsf faq and get it there

Like callmeanoob was saying there is xvsf ranbats going on in Edmonton and Ottawa. if Joker would get off his lazy ass and do something in Toronto I'm sure they'd start throwing them there as well. I've talked to Dark dragon and Nagata lock about getting xvsf as one of the main games for T8 and it looks so-so. We'll find out as the time rolls by.

Hope for the best i guess.

Oh and a prime example of a scrub who does nothign but infinites NEVER winning (ok once) is dark renagade. Nuff said

-Shiro

[MegamanDS]

everyone here is entering at evo right? well, if we can get a board or an arcade machine there.

Think positive!

[SaBrE]

i agree and disagree. do you need to do infinites to win? no, of course not. if you are that much better than the other player, will you win a lot more? of course. but if you got a player with some good fighting game basics, infinites will be hella clutch. like victor said about combofiend when i played him in a tourney here in AZ back in 2002. he went to the finals with me. he actually sent me to the losers earlier. i been playing the game since it came out. cf just used his marvel knowledge and picked up a couple infinite and clutch combos. i know for a fact, at that time atleast, that he rarely played the game. and he beat me in winners bracket just cuz the fact he could get a lucky hyper grav and infinite, or get a lucky launch into the sj.d+short relaunch infinite. or land braindead cyke infinite, leveled the playing field immensly. everyone could tell outside of infinites, he was seriously outmatched, but he could randomly sneak in a hit somehow and execute said infinite without fail. we meet again in the finals. he won i think one match off of an infinite, then i believe i perfect him 3 times in a row due to infinites.

did the better player win? yes, but did the much less experienced player still dominate the rest of the tourney that had good players because on infinite clutch? fuck yeah. i dont care what anyone says, infinites are a major threat if the player has atleast the ability to land it. im not talking idiot players that dont have a clue, im talking about players that have the basic concept. they may not be nowhere near your level, but are average, but the infinites give them the chance to win.

that's what i believe and im sticking to it. ive been playing this game hardcore for over 10 years, i seen lots of shit happen. the better player will win of course. but the bs and infinites definitely bridge the skill level gap A LOT!

[Shiro_420]

TRUTH!

But Vic.... I'm not going to evo =(

[Khiempossible]

TRUTH!

But Vic.... I'm not going to evo =(

no excuses

http://shoryuken.com/?p=103#more-103

[Shiro_420]

NO there is one I HAVE A RECORD. no going over the border if you've got one. Sorry!

[Prozac`Nation]

I still play people that flip out, when they can't beat my Gambit/Ken, with their "this game is stupid broke" Mag/Cyc. People that know the basics, know how to tri-jump mixup and start combos with s.roundhouse, know how to whore Cyc c.forward and sj.roundhouse, but still get beat by basics and evolved strat. People who haven't seen Crossup Air Hurricane \/ Team Super, or how gambit Jump Back Fierce / SJ -> Card shuts out anyone that doesn't hump Block.

Most people will agree XvsSF has balance. Without infinites, most people will agree it has depth. With infinites, callmeanewb mentioned that the depth lies mostly in the tactics that lead up to said combo. In the knowledge of your options, their options, and the execution. And while infinites may cut the learning curve a little short, there's still some serious gaps between a scrub that can Cyc Inf and someone who consistently wins tournaments. Let's be honest, combofiend isn't exactly a scrub, and though he might not be an XSF officianado, MvC2 is about as close as you can get.

Other games may have a stronger learning curve, but at the same time, most of them don't have the balance and depth that XSF has. Don't get me wrong, I love GGXX, and I'll still hit 3s up when it's got competition going, but IMO, they lack the character diversity that XSF has. Matchups change SO much in XSF. For me, that's just more fun.

Which is why I play, fun. I don't play as much as I used to, but I still have a blast online(Which, btw, is far from dead. 100+ usual players, ~10-20 non-scrubby. Lag / Delay just complicate things). And that's what it's about, isn't it?

Speaking of which, I'm gonna go play now. And I'm gonna use Jugg / Sim, cause I can.

[MegamanDS]

jug sim, lol. wierd combination but im sure it works

[evilmuffinmanX]

How Bout:

- Getting the support for an actual main tourney anywhere at all where it's not a side event
- Have a ranbat or some series of dedicated players, didn't ffa try that, not sure what happened there.
- Post those vids on the net
- Fill out the xsf wiki which is empty, and/or get permission from james and chop up his xsf faq and get it there

just front about $5000+g'z and SFvsXM is in EVO2K7! :cool:

[KrassHole]

lol @ shiki for neg repping me in this thread. What a cock sucker.

[Shiro_420]

dun worry i got ya some pos rep

[Shin-RoTeNdO]

I don't care what anyone says, I fucking love this game! I also love Vic... you the man bro.

Shiro: What's up bro? Still playing online? I may get off WoW and my Wii once in a while to play once again.

I plan to enter XvSF again this EVO, mainly because it is so damn fun to play. Better show up this year... *cough* Shiro *cough*, fuck that noise about crossing the border and criminal record bs, FIND A WAY!

[Gasp]

im picking up this game since your guys discussion is getting me pumped

best way to play besides actual game is mame right?

[Prozac`Nation]

Mame sucks pretty bad. It "works", but there are a lot of emulators that just run better(I.E., FBA[Preferably earlier versions, before .2.9. .2.94 is the most common though], MAMEmore). Unfortunately, "everyone" uses Mame 0.64, so you pretty much have to use it unless you want to send some friends an EMU.

I play online with mame, offline I always load FBA .2.6.

[Shiro_420]

Fba works the best for me. BUT DONT PUT IT ON YER TV good lord no..

[Khiempossible]

yo shiro, when canadian nats come around again, if you wanna do PC emulated XvSF, that's cool, but I'm gonna have to rent out a place, cause I want everything on TVs. That means there will be exactly no cabinets, and everything will be console/PC emulated.

[SuicidalGrandpa]

Anybody have a link to a tutorial on how to play online with MAME? I've just got it and would love to get online at some time.

[Saotome Kaneda]

Anybody have a link to a tutorial on how to play online with MAME? I've just got it and would love to get online at some time.
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=103943

posted and stickied by fatherFUCKINGbrain

[KrassHole]

yo shiro, when canadian nats come around again, if you wanna do PC emulated XvSF, that's cool, but I'm gonna have to rent out a place, cause I want everything on TVs. That means there will be exactly no cabinets, and everything will be console/PC emulated.

nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[Smokey]

Why is XvSF pretty popular in Canada?

Only in Ottawa and Edmonton we dont play that game here in MTL so dont say Canada =P

[SuicidalGrandpa]

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=103943

posted and stickied by fatherFUCKINGbrain

Why thank you.

[Shiro_420]

Only in Ottawa and Edmonton we dont play that game here in MTL so dont say Canada =P

Um I'm pretty sure Toronto (Joker Krasshole Jerris Roger Poeta), Calgary (lester Genasis Greg) and soon Winnipeg do as well...

(that was just to name a few)

[margalis]

2D games better than XvSF that are not part of Evo:

COTA.
Primal Rage.
Killer Instinct.
MK3.
2i.
Any darkstalkers.
Any alpha.
Ranma 1/2 - Hard Battle.
Any SamSho.
MSH.

---

Why would XvSF make a big impact at Evo when MVC2 is a similar style of game and there are probably 30 other better fighting games available? It isn't the best Marvel style game - in fact it is probably the worst. It can be really fun but as a competitive game it is really quite lame.

It is what it is - a fun diversion.

[Shiro_420]

2D games better than XvSF that are not part of Evo:

COTA.
Primal Rage.
Killer Instinct.
MK3.
2i.
Any darkstalkers.
Any alpha.
Ranma 1/2 - Hard Battle.
Any SamSho.
MSH.

---

Why would XvSF make a big impact at Evo when MVC2 is a similar style of game and there are probably 30 other better fighting games available? It isn't the best Marvel style game - in fact it is probably the worst. It can be really fun but as a competitive game it is really quite lame.

It is what it is - a fun diversion.
well because xvsf is the shit and i think dog face coverd how every one who is a sf player can play it and have fun with it. also ranma sucks fucing balls i never herd of any one liking it dark stalkers has to small a fallowing MSH has NO ranbats and NO tournaments , Cota is played at ECC when Batt host it but thats about it. (and its way to diff fomr the res tof the vs series) xvsf has twice as many players than mk3. Any how, thats just the the bulk of the game syou named besides Sfa2 and 3 who gives a shit about that list of games.

[Khiempossible]

hahahah a primal rage. Isn't that the game where all specials where negative edged ONLY?

Seriously though, I don't know why you come in here and try and bash the game without any legitimate argument. If you want to explain why you think XvSF, please do, and we'll engage in some intelligent discussion. But simply saying it sucks isn't going to do anything.

[Gasp]

im trying to pick up ryu and dhalsim for some so.cal action :D

[MegamanDS]

im trying to pick up ryu and dhalsim for some so.cal action :D
NICE!! bring it!

[Master Chibi]

There's no need to insult Ranma, the only thing it has going against is its speed.

(Yes I play it)

:P

[margalis]

I didn't say XvsSF sucked, I just listed some better competitive games.

PR had some weird controls, not just negative edge but things like hold down 2 buttons then do down then up...I hear they made the control more standard in later versions...

XvSF is a fine game for enthusiasts, it is certainly fun. But the first post talking about it re-taking EVO by storm is just a tad out of control.

Any fighting game can be played competitively. A two player game where both players have access to the same characters and moves can always be played competitively. What matters is how interesting the gameplay is, how degenerate the strategy is, etc.

Tic Tac Toe isn't a very fun competitive game because the ideal strategy is easy to learn and always results in the exact same game.

XvSF is a lot like that. The strategies are fairly known and not terrible complex, most games and players look about the same.

Watching vids of previous evo side events, most matches came down to who screwed up an infinite more often.

The games I listed all have more interesting matches and gameplay. Except for KI, I don't know why I put that in there.

---

I played a mean keepaway pancake flipping bitch in Ranma. The one with the giant spatula...

[Gasp]

I didn't say XvsSF sucked, I just listed some better competitive games.

PR had some weird controls, not just negative edge but things like hold down 2 buttons then do down then up...I hear they made the control more standard in later versions...

XvSF is a fine game for enthusiasts, it is certainly fun. But the first post talking about it re-taking EVO by storm is just a tad out of control.

Any fighting game can be played competitively. A two player game where both players have access to the same characters and moves can always be played competitively. What matters is how interesting the gameplay is, how degenerate the strategy is, etc.

Tic Tac Toe isn't a very fun competitive game because the ideal strategy is easy to learn and always results in the exact same game.

XvSF is a lot like that. The strategies are fairly known and not terrible complex, most games and players look about the same.

Watching vids of previous evo side events, most matches came down to who screwed up an infinite more often.

The games I listed all have more interesting matches and gameplay. Except for KI, I don't know why I put that in there.

---

I played a mean keepaway pancake flipping bitch in Ranma. The one with the giant spatula...

HATE

[Saotome Kaneda]

There's no need to insult Ranma, the only thing it has going against is its speed.

(Yes I play it)

:P
He said Hard Battle(the 2nd one), not Super Battle(the 3rd one). NERD.
D:

[Shiro_420]

I didn't say XvsSF sucked, I just listed some better competitive games.

PR had some weird controls, not just negative edge but things like hold down 2 buttons then do down then up...I hear they made the control more standard in later versions...

XvSF is a fine game for enthusiasts, it is certainly fun. But the first post talking about it re-taking EVO by storm is just a tad out of control.

Any fighting game can be played competitively. A two player game where both players have access to the same characters and moves can always be played competitively. What matters is how interesting the gameplay is, how degenerate the strategy is, etc.

Tic Tac Toe isn't a very fun competitive game because the ideal strategy is easy to learn and always results in the exact same game.

XvSF is a lot like that. The strategies are fairly known and not terrible complex, most games and players look about the same.

Watching vids of previous evo side events, most matches came down to who screwed up an infinite more often.

The games I listed all have more interesting matches and gameplay. Except for KI, I don't know why I put that in there.

---

I played a mean keepaway pancake flipping bitch in Ranma. The one with the giant spatula...

Scrub? :confused:

[Master Chibi]

He said Hard Battle(the 2nd one), not Super Battle(the 3rd one). NERD.
D:

im the nerd?

youre the one that corrected me mothafuckah!

:annoy: :annoy: :annoy:

[Maj]

I didn't say XvsSF sucked, I just listed some better competitive games.
Better competitive games that people actually play ... or games that old folks namedrop for theory fighter only?

XvSF is a fine game for enthusiasts, it is certainly fun. But the first post talking about it re-taking EVO by storm is just a tad out of control.
So what? If people want to go through the effort of organizing a big event, why e-hate on their parade?

I don't think any XSF player harbors delusions that XSF is ever going to have the same status as MvC2, but why should that stop them from trying to take their favorite game as far as possible?

When XSF was new, most of the SF player base ignored the Marvel games like they were for scrubs only. It took MvC2 to change that perception, so now that the community respects the Marvel games, why shouldn't the XSF players give it another shot? I mean, i know it's considered cool when cats like Spider-Dan give the whole derogatory speech talking shit about players that get into games years after the games have faded from the spotlight. But let's be honest. The original XSF spotlight was about two inches wide.

Besides, just about everyone acknowledges that XSF is fun in casual. Holding XSF tournaments is a valid way to bring attention to the game, even if the ultimate goal is more casual play instead of tournament attendance.

XvSF is a lot like that. The strategies are fairly known and not terrible complex, most games and players look about the same.
Aren't you blowing things a bit out of proportion there? It's a Street Fighter game in the Marvel engine. There's plenty of OG strategy there, as Vic pointed out earlier. Yes there are some dumb characters you can play if you want to get some wins without effort. But you're neither going to have much fun nor are you going to beat the top players that way. So it really comes down to whether the existing XSF players are annoyed by the "not terribly complex" strategies that do well once in a while. And so far, they don't seem to be complaining.

Bottom line is, i'm not really that surprised when i see people hating on XSF. Even the players have to use disclaimers sometimes, when they're talking about that game. But really margalis, do you think you're saying anything that anyone posting in this thread doesn't already know? I mean, you're not exactly talking to mall scrubs here. They know what they're getting into.

[SaBrE]

nice post maj. i agree. cant hate on a revival no matter what. im always down for it. im always gonna represent the game, the BS and all!

[Smokey]

Um I'm pretty sure Toronto (Joker Krasshole Jerris Roger Poeta), Calgary (lester Genasis Greg) and soon Winnipeg do as well...

(that was just to name a few)

Lol when I get my laptop Im gonna try and make ppl play this game hehe

[Shiro_420]

Lol when I get my laptop Im gonna try and make ppl play this game hehe

Oh shit Montreal gonna beast a the next Xvsf CC?

[MegamanDS]

xmvsf combo strings, frame data, just frames are way more complex than mvc2. you can do every single mvc2 combo + atleast 1000 more additional. there are combos you can do in xmvsf that are almost impossible to explain.

Just cause you don't know the complexity of the game doesn't mean there is none. I know frame data in both mvc2 and xmvsf, and i can tell you xmvsf is 100x more open to combos.

[KrassHole]

Lol when I get my laptop Im gonna try and make ppl play this game hehe


XvSF @ MAT ??

If so im taking that shit!!

[Shiro_420]

Matt your going doooowwwwn!!!!

[KrassHole]

Matt your going doooowwwwn!!!!


Too chinatown??

[Khiempossible]

XvSF @ MAT ??

If so im taking that shit!!

You gotta fight through ottawa's best for that title first.

I hope to god there's xvsf at MAT. I hate/can't play every other game there.

[Shiro_420]

Too chinatown??

that to!!!!

[KrassHole]

that to!!!!


Na Shiro. You're done son!!

[margalis]

So what? If people want to go through the effort of organizing a big event, why e-hate on their parade?


Nothing is stopping anyone from holding side-tournaments.

XvsSF isn't even the best pre-MVC2 Marvel-engine game. Every argument you made for XvSF, I can make for MSH, with the added benefit that MSH is a better game.

Can you play XvsSF competitively? Sure. You can play any fighting game competitively. Is if fun? Sure it is.

What I would love to see at EVO is a rotation of old-school games. Have XvSF one year, MSH the next. Have VS one year, A2 the next.

It is fun to explore these blasts from the past and just because new games have come out that doesn't stop them from being fun. A sign of maturity among the industry and gamers is the realization that newer isn't always better. I'm certainly more for fun novelty picks than garbage like DOA4 that literally nobody cares about at all, or running T5 after the Tekken community has dumped it.

An official A2 or XSF tournament every year would get old fast. But a randomish rotation would be great.

[Maj]

I agree that it would be a good idea for the XSF players to try out MSH. But i think you're missing the point here. XSF has something of a scene brewing right now. Are you volunteering to get people interested in MSH? Many of the people posting in this thread have put a lot of time into hosting gatherings, organizing tournaments, and sharing the knowledge just to get people to notice XSF.

[margalis]

If there is really a large community of XvSF players who think the game is worth playing then I can't see why it wouldn't be at EVO.

I realize EVO has a lot of competing pulls like game quality, popularity, and some newness needed to get sponors. (Or something like that...) To me including a game at EVO can do a couple of things:

1. Help foster a community around a deserving game. (IE Guilty Gear)

2. Please an existing community.

3. Serve some advertising/sponsorship goals that I don't understand.

GG doesn't have a huge community but encouraging that community is a good thing because GG is a good game. 3S isn't a good game but it has a large community so throw them a bone. DOA4 isn't a good game and doesn't have a large community - so I guess it serves #3 above...

I don't think XvSF is a community worth growing because IMO it isn't a very good game, but if the community is large enough I would reluctantly say go for it.

XSF is probably better than 3S anyway though...

I've said this before but with a lack of new games this sort of debate is going to become much more common. I fully expect that in a couple of years EVO is going to have A2, VS or some games like that in the official lineup. CVS2, MVC2 and 3S isn't going to fly forever.

To me it comes down to number of participants. If an XSF tournament would draw then have one. My question would be what would be the expected draw?

[Shiro_420]

man theb things your saying the people who hsot shit for xvsf games has been done and still are. You are really clueless of what we've been up to.

[Chaos]

My memories of the marvel series pre MVC1 are very hazy due to the whole "SF players dislike the marvel" game thought pattern and poor competition and availability in Alabama. MVC1 is still hella fun, but could you (Margalis) please explain why you feel MSH is superior to XSF? The game in the early series I have the most time spent with is...............none. I played all of them maybe 15 or 20 times and just dismissed them until for some reason MVC caught hold. Basically if I"m going to take up another OG game (most of my friends are MVC2 heads and have limited og experience) I want to play the best of the marvel engine early incarnations.

[Shiro_420]

Xvsf>msh. Its the cloest to mvc2...

[Chaos]

Being close to MVC2 doesn't make it the best game now does it? Reasons please, not opinion. Well the reasons will be opinion but that one doesn't quite cut it.

[margalis]

XSF and MSH are pretty different experiences.

Graphics and sound in MSH are way way better. MSH is probably the most polished fighting game Capcom has put out in terms of production quality.

MSH has gems (that some people turn off for some reason - never really understood why) and XSF obviously has two partners.

The fun part of XSF is the combo freedom and landing all sorts of crazy shit. It is a game where everyone has some insane broken thing they can do. Fast paced and full of crazy combos. Really fun game to mess around with because it is so open.

MSH is a slower, more deliberate game. (Nowhere near MvSF slowness of course) I also greatly prefer the character selection of MSH. (Your mileage may vary)

Basically I would say XSF is a great game to play to mess around in and do crazy shit, MSH is a better game to play if you want strategic matches.

All that said, I would play whatever game you can find other people playing.

Edit:


man theb things your saying the people who hsot shit for xvsf games has been done and still are.


I have no idea what this means! None!

[Shiro_420]

Well you fuck tard I said the things your saying that should be done for xvsf ARE BEING DONE. We've already been doing that shit and have been getting hella lots of people entering because of it , so your not bringin any thing new to the table at all.

Also the combo engien in xvsf is very simular to mvc2. Strats are the pretty much the same. You can play storm and mags pretty much the same with few exceptions. (no la+ super no air combo to grav tempest) but things like mags doing rom infinite strom corner traping games etc are pretty much the same. I play both games alot and have no truble switching from one to the oter.

Also MSh's combo engine for charaters like wolve are simular to xvsf wolve with almost no exceptions except a few combos such as his easy relaunch infinite in msh. But to be realistic here, xvsf is bigger and far better than msh. Your not going to win yer debait about the sound being better so might as well pick up the game. Who gives a shit? If xvsf is closer to mvc2 than msh is and more people play it then msh why even bother playing the game?

If you do infact think the games better host it at Evo this year and show every one how much more people will play it then xvsf.

[MegamanDS]

whats the worst/oldest game at evo 2k6? then debate if xmvsf shouldve taken its place. i want this debate started now...

[KrassHole]

whats the worst/oldest game at evo 2k6? then debate if xmvsf shouldve taken its place. i want this debate started now...

CvS2 =[

[Shiro_420]

CvS2 =[

=0 thats madness :looney:

[gridman]

whats the worst/oldest game at evo 2k6? then debate if xmvsf shouldve taken its place. i want this debate started now...

ST

yes. definitley

[Project_K]

Oh yeah i still play XSF until this day. Whenever I need to take a break from MvC2, I usually play XSF. If you guys are located in southern California and wanna challenge me for fun and kicks, just head down to Super Arcade in Walnut. It's located on the intersection of Grand Ave and Amar right across from Mt. San Antonio College.

[margalis]

"XSF: it's MVC2 - only worse!"

Exciting.

[Shiro_420]

hommi you should go to FFA and then you'll find alot fo guys having fun with xvsf.

margalis you must suck balls at xvsf or something. You don't seem to know shit about it yet you post on and on and on. Dude stfu! no one here hating on xvsf but you. Did MMDS MM you and take all your money?

[Khiempossible]

Actually, Shiro, you're getting a little wayward. Margalis is making legitimate arguments and expressing legitimate opinions. That's fine.

Obviously he doesn't think XvSF is competitively viable. Sure he hasn't played it much on a competitive level, but that doesn't make his opinion any less legitimate. It just means he needs to learn to play the game at the level you and I both play.

He might also think MSH is a better game. That's a irrelevant. The MSH community is tiny compared to the XvSF community, and debating which game is better, is an argument for somewhere else.

My only point in this thread is to explain to the FG masses that XvSF is competitively viable. It's strategically deep. It's mentally challenging. The better player WILL win on a consistent basis. And despite the fact that the combo system is very lax, it doesn't impede gameplay at all. Personally I think it deepens the gameplay. Infinites force you to play very safe and maintain very strong spacing. Without every high/low/throw mixup threatening you with an infinite, there would be much less need to maintain positional advantage over your opponent. In other words, without infinites, XvSF would merely be slightly better than 3s.

People bitch about 3s in that parry reduces the game to high/mid/low/throw mixups. I agree. However, instead of 3s parrying making strategical desicions obsolete, infinites in XvSF make strategical desicions that much more critical. Instead of guessing wrong equating to air combo/super, and repeating said mixup until the better guesser wins, the whole game of XvSF revolves around getting the opportunity to attempt said mixup, baiting opponents into eating said mixup for free, and putting yourself in a position that said mixup will not cost you your life if it fails.

On a side note, despite whatever differences/similarities there are between MVC2 and XvSF they are incredibly different games.

First of all, the combo engines are largely irrelevant. The fact that you can do some combo in one game while another combo fails in the other does not impact the gameplay quality of either game.

Secondly, all of the strategical elements in MVC2 exist in XvSF. The execution of said strategies differ, but they are still there. In fact, one might even argue that the strategies potentially used in Xmen is even broader than that of MVC2. But that's an irrelevant point.

The underlining concept that I'm trying to argue here is that XvSF is as playable, and if not more so, as any other game.

PS. Maj, I frequent your site on a semi-regular basis, and have digested all the work you've done. I also direct new FGers to your site to develop a basic understanding of the game. At any rate, I just reread your kattobi cancelling article, and wanted to inform you that I'm the 11th guy trying to play A chun/guile/yun in CVS2.