Gotfrag Guide to Competitive Fighting Games

[ninja sentinel]

Here is a FG guide that was posted on gotfrag.com:
http://dpad.gotfrag.com/portal/story/36390/

For those who haven't heard about this website before, it's one of the best, if not the best, resource for competitive PC games.

[Iron Claw]

Looks interesting. I'll definitely check this out when I get a chance.

[Gasp]

this would have been better if they actually explained why these games are popular like the depth of 3s and the madness that is marvel

also that 5th page made me sad

[Hitaro0]

The guide basically explains a few fighting games a bit, explains and locates some major tournaments and tells you you probably won't win any money (wich really isn't surprising; almost every tournaments doesn't give any money to losers).

[FecalPenance]

from the mvc2 section:

"one of the most drama starting video games amongst the Competitive Fighting Gamer Community, with stories such as someone being shot over the game, $1000 money matches, people making side-bets of which of their favorite players is going to win, and so on. People take their fighting games very seriously."

no one got shot from marvel... i've heard of serious fights and one stabbing but thats it...

[Gasp]

from the mvc2 section:

"one of the most drama starting video games amongst the Competitive Fighting Gamer Community, with stories such as someone being shot over the game, $1000 money matches, people making side-bets of which of their favorite players is going to win, and so on. People take their fighting games very seriously."

no one got shot from marvel... i've heard of serious fights and one stabbing but thats it...

maybe they're talking about the drama of josh wigfall getting shot they might have mistook it as over a mvc2 game instead of hustling the streets

[Return of Shiki]

THE very first line of the article:

This feature's purpose to show you that there is a much larger world for competitive play in consoles than just Halo or Smash


And yet, the responses include:

--ssbm > all fighting games
-- I still can't believe you can go pro for ssbm. That's like the best fighting game ever.
--No smash brothers love? :(
--BTW u completely ignored super smash bros. gg.
--I also thought that Super Smash should have gotten a mention too
--How come Super Smash Bros Melee didn't get mentioned -- Seriously! That games takes the most skill by far, and is alot more interesting to watch.

*chokes self*

[Henaki]

it was written by j1n i wonder what he was on the "drunk or drunker" scale when he wrote this.

[Zinac]

it was written by j1n i wonder what he was on the "drunk or drunker" scale when he wrote this.

I would guess the latter.

[_MJ_#R]

3s came out in 99 not 97

[Riot.EXE]

THE very first line of the article:



And yet, the responses include:

--ssbm > all fighting games
-- I still can't believe you can go pro for ssbm. That's like the best fighting game ever.
--No smash brothers love? :(
--BTW u completely ignored super smash bros. gg.
--I also thought that Super Smash should have gotten a mention too
--How come Super Smash Bros Melee didn't get mentioned -- Seriously! That games takes the most skill by far, and is alot more interesting to watch.

*chokes self*


sounds like my neck of the woods...UGH

[Strider2k2]

sounds like my neck of the woods...UGH

^Agreed.

Not to sound like a hater, but why the fuck do Smash "players" think that game requires more skill than SF (or any other fighter)? :lame:

I get so mad whenever i hear that shit. Makes me wanna smack somebody and tell them to to actually play some Street Fighter.

No disrespect to anybody that actually plays Smash. I just can't seem to understand that game... :confused:

[Dereshi]

THE very first line of the article:



And yet, the responses include:

--ssbm > all fighting games
-- I still can't believe you can go pro for ssbm. That's like the best fighting game ever.
--No smash brothers love? :(
--BTW u completely ignored super smash bros. gg.
--I also thought that Super Smash should have gotten a mention too
--How come Super Smash Bros Melee didn't get mentioned -- Seriously! That games takes the most skill by far, and is alot more interesting to watch.

*chokes self*

Gotfrag is home to basically the entire Counter-Strike community, and we all know how bright they are.

[funkymusic]

Dont dog on gotfrag there trying. They have been covering esports since the frag in 98. It took alot of time and effort for that article to get printed. Lets just say it took since evo06 to get that through. Theres alot of untapped potential in gamers on gotfrag. Mainly because they already understand the fact that games CAN be played competitevly. Which is a huge obstacle to get over when gaming. Also id like to state that Gotfrag did better than anyone else whos tried explaining the FGC.

[The Granby]

I would like to know how DoA4 dwarfs ANY 3D fighter out there. The tournament turn outs are still too low. Just cause a bunch of idiots at WCG/CGI who know nothing about fighting games puts it in there shows doesn't mean it's big.

[Dipstick]

I would like to know how DoA4 dwarfs ANY 3D fighter out there. The tournament turn outs are still too low. Just cause a bunch of idiots at WCG/CGI who know nothing about fighting games puts it in there shows doesn't mean it's big.
Money talks, that's all it comes down to.

Some top player is leaving a ton of money on the table by pissing on DoA4. Then again, given how well Justin Wong has done playing DoA4 (just as an example), maybe not?...

[Alucard20]

I thought ssb was a party game?:rofl:

[Kayin]

I thought ssb was a party game?:rofl:

It is, it's a game that isn't meant to be taken seriously AT ALL. Yet people seem so intent. :rolleyes:

A lot of people just play it so they can be all LOL I PLAY A FIGHTING GAME COMPETITIVELY. I say this, if all you play is Smash and don't have a clue how to play any other fighter, guess what? You're a scrub.

[Dipstick]

It is, it's a game that isn't meant to be taken seriously AT ALL. Yet people seem so intent. :rolleyes:

That wouldn't be the first time, not will it be the last.

Just because the developers intended it to be one thing doesn't mean it has to end up that way. Besides, I do think they put quite a bit of thought into the competitive nature of the game. A lot more than some developers of 'real' fighting games.

I say this, if all you play is Smash and don't have a clue how to play any other fighter, guess what? You're a scrub.
I think they just don't know how to play other fighters. It's like shitting on someone here because they only play MvC2, that would go over about as well as a lead fart.

[The Granby]

Sometimes I just wonder about the Smash community. The game is without a doubt solid and a great deal of fun. But the community is like super isolated from the rest of fighting games. Maybe it has to do with EVO never having Smash ever, or MLG literally monopolizing Smash. But I honestly think that the Smash community is so large and vast, that it really should be exposed to the rest of the community for fighting games. If anything it might bring more players to all games and would only further fighting games.

As for not designed to be taken seriously, well technically DoA maker Tomobou Itagaki says his game isn't designed for hardcore people either, doesn't stop it from getting a bunch of articles on gotfrag, here, and god knows where else. Not to mention for whatever reason, DOA4 is considered the "biggest" 3D fighter out there (still big fat WTF). :looney:

[Digitalbooty]

It is, it's a game that isn't meant to be taken seriously AT ALL. Yet people seem so intent. :rolleyes:

A lot of people just play it so they can be all LOL I PLAY A FIGHTING GAME COMPETITIVELY. I say this, if all you play is Smash and don't have a clue how to play any other fighter, guess what? You're a scrub.

SSBM is actually pretty deep. Don't get me worng. I'd pick ST, Marvel, 3s, GG, MB over it ANY DAY, but it's still a good game. A lot of idiots take it too far.

[Return of Shiki]

SSBM is a good game. It is also a fun game. But it is NOT a good tournament game.

And its hardcore fans are 99.9% moronic fanboys or stupid little kids who don't know any better.

[CoMpOuNd]

Gotfrag? hmm I don't really like reading articles off of that site.... They asked me to write an article on CS1.6 once, turned it down because the leader of my clan wanted to write it. I read it and it was all common sence, where to go what to do how to aim how to shooot bla bla bla... They just find people that they think can play the game well and ask them to write articles, waste of time if you ask me. It's a good read, thats for sure, but you'd be better off asking some of us things about fighting games then reading that article....

This is a game I personally compete in, and in my honest opinion, is THE best 2D Fighting Game currently out.

Either one of us could have made that article.. said the exact same shit that guy did, but about third strike, or even Tekken. Still would have got respect for it too:rofl:

[Capn Spanky]

Sirlin pwns gotfrag.

[Rioting Soul]

Sirlin pwns gotfrag.

link?

[Capn Spanky]

link?

no, I didn't mean like, in an article. I was just stating what SRK already knows. David Sirlin's guide to competitive gaming is better than ANYTHING gotfrag.com can and will ever post. Sorry for the misunderstanding. (Unless you haven't read the guide on playing to win and all of that stuff.)

[Rioting Soul]

no, I didn't mean like, in an article. I was just stating what SRK already knows. David Sirlin's guide to competitive gaming is better than ANYTHING gotfrag.com can and will ever post. Sorry for the misunderstanding. (Unless you haven't read the guide on playing to win and all of that stuff.)

I read it, it was just a misunderstanding.

[Mr. Sinister]

For those who haven't heard about this website before, it's one of the best, if not the best, resource for competitive PC games.

And they should stick with what they know best, which isn't competitive fighting games.. That guide to competitive fighting games was horrible and highly biased.

[Henaki]

And they should stick with what they know best, which isn't competitive fighting games.. That guide to competitive fighting games was horrible and highly biased.

What is it highly biased torwards or against? How is it horrible? It's an extremely barebones article on fighting games that has a lot of useful information to a complete newbie. The only thing wrong with it is a single sentence of misinformation about "someone being shot over MvC2", although there was drama involving it and it had nothing to do with MvC2 and the "california doesn't really have any major tournaments".

[Sabin]

lol some of the responses in this thread are hilarious, how can you guys rag on ssbm and that community

it rapes us for free no purchase required, they have 100+ man monthlies on the regular with cats dropping $20 a head. Return of Shiki (cause I can't understand why you said what you said) and others, don't be jealous, instead we should be trying to work with them, but everyone keeps talking shit. :(

that was a good article by jin and I think he covered a lot of angles, but yeah, noones been shot over marvel..

[Maj]

Does anyone here have an account there? Someone absolutely needs to post this link over there:
http://www.denjin-video.com/?q=node/92

It's got funny commentary too, so even people who aren't into Marvel can enjoy it. Plus it's got close matches so they are obviously exciting. And towards the end when MegamanDS picks up the mic, he starts doing some light analysis like pointing out huge mistakes that will help people understand what's going on.

So yeah, someone do me a favor and post that link along with a short description.

[Return of Shiki]

Return of Shiki (cause I can't understand why you said what you said)

Because my point was those kids were too stupid to even read the first line of the article before commenting.

The writer clearly states that he's trying to tell them about games BESIDES Smash and what do they do?

Complain that he didn't mention Smash.

So...yeah?

But even without that context...

How come Super Smash Bros Melee didn't get mentioned -- Seriously! That games takes the most skill by far, and is alot more interesting to watch

How do you defend THIS?

[Sabin]

Return of Shiki, I can't defend that, considering the amount of coverage SSBM gets. Oh well, noobs will be noobs. :(

[Henaki]

How do you defend THIS?

you don't but this thread is no worse than that set of comments.

i like reading the misinformation and hatred smash seems to draw out from the capcom community and vice versa. ignorance is funny you know?

[Maj]

Sweet, looks like someone posted the link to the MvC2 Ranbat over at the comments section for that Gotfrag article. Thanks yo.

But they posted it as a direct link to the wmv file instead of using the link to the news item that i provided. I hope i don't get in trouble with the denjin video folks for this. Sorry if your bandwidth gets owned up guys.

[plasmakill]

Just cause Smash has a large following doesn't mean it's a real or good fighting game. I can think of many thing that have large followings and are trash. I won't get specific cause I don't wanna offend anyone.

But just because the general public likes something doesn't mean it's any good. Some things are ment to be swept under the rug.

Oh yeah, ok article straight and to the point I guess.

[Sabin]

lol I'm sure you cant get specific, beacuse you dont have any examples at all.

We're talking about fighting games, not the real world at large.
Name a fighting game that has a large following that isn't good?

The only thing you could name is DOA4 and that has sponsors but not the "large blossoming community"

editors note: I don't play Smash at all, don't even own a Gamecube.

But the unwarranted Smash hate doesn't help anyone at all, really.
Same for the Smash guys and random hate, like Henaki said. They have a large community so I don't even know why they would be hating on anything aside from FPS games.

[plasmakill]

Tekken is shitty and people love it, and myself and plenty of other people think Smash is horrible. I own a Gamecube and used to own Smash, I tried to like the game and I just couldn't. Fun to play with boys when your drunk or something, but having a competitive scene based around the shit just makes me giggle.

To keep it in the realm of videogames though and not the real world at large, look at the PS2. Total POS, built like shit, weakest hardware wise outta all three systems at the time. But yet was the hottest thing out there.

The point though is the opinion of the masses means nothing, in the real word or the videogame world.

[Sabin]

Tekken is shitty and people love it,

i stopped reading right there man, obvioulsy the game doesnt suck if the entire fucking fgc is playing it competively. You should well know by now that competitive games (esp. fighting games) tend to break down at a high level when its being played by so many people, and if the game starts to break down (i.e., become retarded, one tactic dominates all) then it doesnt get played competively by the fighting game community at large

i agree with your statement abotu the world at large but this doesnt hold true for fighting games at all end of story. not trying to sound liek a dick here but youre totally wrong.

you should take sometime to learn/read up on the advanced movement that game has, its obviously not shitty and youll feel like a total noob when you start to learn any kind of advanced movement.

theres a difference between not liking a game, and the game actually being really genuinely truly shitty. (talking about fighters here)

pz

[FecalPenance]

lol I'm sure you cant get specific, beacuse you dont have any examples at all.

We're talking about fighting games, not the real world at large.
Name a fighting game that has a large following that isn't good?


thats a dirty trick arturo because ssbm is about as much of a "fighting" game as powerstone.... so to beat your trick question, i choose... air hockey... it has about as much advanced movement and probably longer combos... zomg and u Bop things... the public eats that shit up so it has huge tournaments too...

[archetype]

Some of you cats are MAD defensive and shit. This isn't directed at 1 person just saying this after reading this thread. But to the dudes hating on smash, you dudes are just as elitist as the other competitve fg players that hate on SF.

And who are you to say that smash shouldn't be played competitively? I said this before in the past. But those cats were dedicated and worked hard to get a smash community going. And peeps here saying it wasn't meant to be competitive...

I HIGHLY FUCKING doubt the designers at capcom was designing SF2 and was thinking, "yeah lets make this game so people make tournies like evo and shit". Believe it or not the game had fans(like smash) and people got together(like smash) and created a community with SF tournies(like smash)

Stop the hate shit is corny.

[pherai]

I think the beef people have with the smash community is their apparent blindness to other fighting games. Its a larger, and more endorsed community than the SF community, but as soon as SF gets a little recognition, you see them crying about not enough smash recognition. I'm not going to get down on the game, because I'm sure it has some depth of gameplay, but it doesn't change the fact that those kinds of people are irritating.

[plasmakill]

i stopped reading right there man, obvioulsy the game doesnt suck if the entire fucking fgc is playing it competively.
pz


Lolz, thats cool casue I stopped right there. Tekken a good game please. It's cool though not trying to be a dick either, but debating is fun and Smash sucks.

Hell while I'm at it, fighting games are part of the real world. I mean unless there is some alternate fighting game demension no one has told me about.

I rather see the fighting game community stay as a niche. Know what happens with things get popular, they get deluded and watered down for mass appeal. Maybe it's juts me but I like to think of it as integraty. Just look at the videogame industry itself like post 1998ish, shit I see these days makes me sick.

[Sabin]

Lolz, thats cool casue I stopped right there. Tekken a good game please. It's cool though not trying to be a dick either, but debating is fun and Smash sucks.

Hell while I'm at it, fighting games are part of the real world. I mean unless there is some alternate fighting game demension no one has told me about.

I rather see the fighting game community stay as a niche. Know what happens with things get popular, they get deluded and watered down for mass appeal. Maybe it's juts me but I like to think of it as integraty. Just look at the videogame industry itself like post 1998ish, shit I see these days makes me sick.

There's a difference between thinking a game is trash without playing it to see what it has to offer, and playing it for a extended period of time, breaking it down, getting to a high enough level and then concluding it's trash. I choose the latter.

For example, if you were to say, "Tekken sucks because of the crush system, it makes for a extremely random game because you become too scared to throw out lows," or something to that effect, I could have listened to you, cause then I know you have played the game enough to understand something worth complaining about..

Well yeah I agreewith you about games being trash since they turned mainstream, but that has raelly nothing to do with the conversation at hand here. Since the fighting game genre has gone niche it's gotten worse, with less and less companies giving a damn though.

[plasmakill]

I will admit post Tekken Tag I have little experience with the game. I played Tag and 3 for years simply because alot of people I knew played it. They where ok games, but anybody can pick it up mash some buttons and do decently in the game. Part 4 was just a mess and 5 is pretty much same, better but still some questionable shit. Damage is just off the hook in that game with wall combos and all, not mention some just retarded juggles et all.

Fighting games where always a niche. Even in there prime, becasue at the time when they where in there prime videogames themselves where still a niche market.

Yes I consider the mainstream the enemy here. The reason why compaines don't give a shit about fighters is because you have millions of mindless souls plunking down cash for the latest FPS or cartoon fighting game. There not gonna spend money making fighters that are not gonna sell well, when they can just rehash another FPS and make millions. If it wasn't for these fools I really think companies would spend more time on fighters. Business sucks and sadly money is what makes the world go round.

[Sabin]

You can't beat someone by mashing in Tekken, what are you talking about man -_- If you are losing to mashing, you just dont have enough experience at the game period, because someone who knows the game system really well will interrupt your furious mashing and low parry and counter poke you to hell. Not to mention that while you're mashing you have little to no defense and no concept of spacing period. I give up man, I just hope you can play someone decent someday who has a concept of spacing and defense, cause if you're saying someone can do decent by mashing, I don't think you have been exposed to actual real play.

Of corse with your buddies who are just picking up the game for fun yea, mashing will beat your buddies who have no knowledge of the game engine.

[diamonddust]

Sirlin pwns gotfrag.

readin sirlins articles (playing to win, etc.) have been on my agenda for a long ass time. jus readin a LIL BIT of his FIRST (playing to win) article beats down that WHOLE article @ gotfrag

[Hitaro0]

I think most of the hate of Smash is directed to, well, it's community. The community basically just sucks, beacause the game is way too inviting and naturally has hundreds of 10 year olds playing it and thinking they're good beacause of some stuff like "i can beat lvl9 cps". Not everybody's like that, though.

Some people will still say that "it was inteded to be a party game" and "lol, sux" but nearly damn everybody here respects the fact that Smash is good and has some depth (though not near games like Super Turbo).

readin sirlins articles (playing to win, etc.) have been on my agenda for a long ass time. jus readin a LIL BIT of his FIRST (playing to win) article beats down that WHOLE article @ gotfrag
Why haven't you yet?

[altergenesis]

The Smash community is rather narrowminded. The hate from SF players, don't come directly from the SF community, the "Smashers" are the one who hate on the SF players, simply because they beleive that Smash is so much better and they don't get the same attention.

What is irritating about this, is that at least half of the people that say this have never played an SF game in their lives.

[Return of Shiki]

I would say it's a hell of a lot more than just half.

I'd say 80% of "Smashers" have never played a single fighting game besides Soul Calibur 2 for GC (OMG LINK SO KEWL!!!).

And yet that doesn't stop them from proclaiming that Smash is the "deepest" and most skill-demanding fighter of all-time.

[altergenesis]

Well, clearly, they're gay like that.

[Henaki]

I would say it's a hell of a lot more than just half.

I'd say 80% of "Smashers" have never played a single fighting game besides Soul Calibur 2 for GC (OMG LINK SO KEWL!!!).

And yet that doesn't stop them from proclaiming that Smash is the "deepest" and most skill-demanding fighter of all-time.
You're right and that doesn't make them any better than the people dismissing smash as a competitive game or saying "3rd strike is the deepest fighting game ever" either, which happens almost as much on both sides of this retarded opposition.

[Lilman]

Well i can actually say i have played Smash players just like that and have shut them the fuck up with the quickness because they have no idea about ANYTHING but smash. I was at tourney with Smash, GG, Marvel, etc. Some random Smash fanboy comes up in back of a game of GG: " This game has no depth compared to Smash" Hence when i turn around and tell him to literally STFU cuz u have no idea what u talking about. Then i explain to him about how GG. Needless to say i still see the guy at a local lan center and he doesnt seem as bad of a fanboy anymore.

[G.O.T]

to all the the open minded people if you were to number the games (no particular order: fighting games) that have the perfect blend of DEPTH, STRATEGY, ENTERTAINMENT, COMPETITIVENESS, PRIDE, POPULARITY and LONGEST LASTING APPEAL In America-Old but preferably new. How would you have it In your own opinion from 1-10. On the cool, mine would be. Don't ruin the thread...I actually like this debate. Im just curious to now all the elitists, and non-elitists opinions.

1.GGXX series-Admit it, it has a somewhat decent community already in America. Entertaining and has that don't be reckless deepness to it. But pretty unknown to the idiot media. If it had television coverage of pro matches like halo did on USA would be the shit, tell the truth? I totally agree with everything Sirlin said about it.
Easy for beginners. You get good scrubs can't mess with ya. More people should it play it just like he said.
Best Game IMO is GGXXAC so far.

2.Tekken series-It's a okay 3-D fighter. I like it better than VF and DOA. It's competitive i'll play it.
Best Game is Tekken Tag.

3. Street Fighter series-Never forget ya roots. Street Fighter rules simple as that. 1990s to present. FstFwd>>>>>SRK community.
3S is too good.
Best SFII Game-Champion Edition it was my fav. And everyone in Galveston played it competitively all the time. Bison is broken yes, but there's ways to beat him. I hate people who complain.

Best Alpha game-Alpha 2. Just Nice. My 1st Alpha Game I Played. Good blend of all the above characteristics..to me

Best EX Game-Street Fighter EX 2 probably. Dunno if this was accepted by the community or not. ShinjiGohan knows more than me.

Capcom vs SNK 2 is on it's own golden shelf. SNK side sucks im sorry. Billy Kane and Ralf Jones ftw.

4. VS Series-If a fg was to ever reach that worldwide status like most crappy fps games. It would be the vs series. Arcades were damn near full back in the day. Watching people play was dope. Playing it yourself was madness. Marvel characters with Capcom was ingenious. It brought in everybody. Even people who hated fighting games. It was...It still is that good.
Best Game is MvC1. Every character was somewhat playable in high level play. Correct me if I am wrong.

5.SSBM-Some hate it, some respect it, some in-between. I think its meh competitive wise. I Like it as a beer game. I hate it as a fighter cuz its not goddamnit. Its an accident to fanboys. You would think you can button mash though. Its not that simple to beat good people. Until someone from SRK goes to a major tournament beats Isai, Ken, PC, or Korean DJ. Or gets somewhere near 4th place then takes out the disc shits on it and says go play Street Fighter you can't hate on it. I have money on the line for anybody that can do it. But its more so us then them. Because it would take years for someone to actually be decent in Street Fighter. Let alone get far at Evo.

6. SNK Fighters/King Of Fighters series-An extremely large fanbase outside the USA. Mexico, Europe, and other countries love this game. And looks like it will get so much more play for years to come. High Learning Curve games.
Best KOF Game is KOF 2002/98.
Best FF Game is MOTW.

7. Vampire Series-Japan is still playing it. I wish it had a big following over here. I would loved getting good at it. Now I can only do it on Kaillera in which I don't practice this game. But high level vids are cool.
Best Games is Vampire Savior.

8. Soul Calibur series-I guess. It's played all over. I hate it though. Guard Impact needs more tuning. It should be if you gc an attack thats free attack. The way they have to if your opponent is stunned during gc he camn do it back. Thats stupid as hell to call it a serious fighter.
Best is SC I or it should have been.

9. Melty Blood series-Its a damn good fighter, and gives good entertainment as well. Balanced to a point where it's not boring, it is a fav among anime fans, and It probably come stateside soon I don't know. The ex-shield function is nice. Easy to pick up hard to master.

10. Virtua Fighter series-its alright. I heard from peeps that its a button masher, and then I here from others that its the deepest fighter you can buy. Don't care but its a good blend of everything from word of mouth so it gets my vote on shit that should be played regardless of beef.

DOA series is crap. MSH/XvSF are good mentions. Virtua On shoulda been bigger.
Jojo im getting into it now.

[Return of Shiki]

You're right and that doesn't make them any better than the people dismissing smash as a competitive game or saying "3rd strike is the deepest fighting game ever" either, which happens almost as much on both sides of this retarded opposition.

The thing is:

A) People saying 3S is the deepest fighter ever may be right. It has been played for 9 years now and is as popular as it has ever been. SSB Melee will be just as abandoned as SSB64 when Brawl comes out. 3S will probably be in tournaments for 10 more years (minimum).

B) People who play 3S play other fighting games. REAL fighting games. That gives them more credibility as a judge of depth than the vast majority of Smashers who have never played another fighting game in their life.

C) You take Justin Wong and give him 4 hours to practice and learn Smash and I guarantee he would place in the top 6 of any random Smash tourney with guys who have been "mastering" the game for over 5 years.
You take any top Smash player who has never played another fighter in his life (SC2 doesn't count, sorry), give him 4 hours, and have him enter any Marvel or 3S and he won't even know what the hell he's doing.
My point?
Learning SF gives you knowledge of the bases of ALL fighting games...Smash does not. Therefore, even without the common fact that SFers actually play multiple fighting games, even SFers who only learn one SF game have a much better sense of fighting games than a Smasher.

[purifyweirdsoul]

well nice job Jason I like the article :O

How does dust loop associate itself with SRK though?

[crazymasterhand]

A) People saying 3S is the deepest fighter ever may be right. It has been played for 9 years now and is as popular as it has ever been. SSB Melee will be just as abandoned as SSB64 when Brawl comes out. 3S will probably be in tournaments for 10 more years (minimum).

That's probably because it hasn't gotten a sequal. If it did 3S would be dropped like 2nd Impact or MvC1 (unless 4th blow or whatever was total trash).

[kainzero]

Because my point was those kids were too stupid to even read the first line of the article before commenting.
And some of the kids here are complaining about how Sirlin's articles own the gotfrag article... they're not even on the same fucking topic! Sirlin writes about how to get a winning attitude in a competitive atmosphere, gotfrag gives a brief overview of games being played now, their status, and a list of tournaments.

People who argue the most about depth tend to be shitty players anyway. That goes for any FG, SSBM or SF. You don't like a game's mechanics, or the way it's played or whatever, that's fine. But not liking a game because of this phantom depth or that a game isn't as deep as another seems like a sorry excuse for losing. It's almost as if the word "cheap" became replaced by "randomness" and "lack of depth" with scrubs.

As for this whole "tournament-quality" BS and shit like "it was never meant to be competitive in the first place," I'm sure games like Scrabble and Arm-wrestling and all that other random shit on ESPN2 weren't made to be "tournament-quality" either. Basketball was a game made to keep people fit at the YMCA. When it started, people played on teams of 9 on a half court. But if people want to make tournaments and competition out of it, then they'll do it. Who cares what the intent was?

[Henaki]

The thing is:

A) People saying 3S is the deepest fighter ever may be right. It has been played for 9 years now and is as popular as it has ever been. SSB Melee will be just as abandoned as SSB64 when Brawl comes out. 3S will probably be in tournaments for 10 more years (minimum).
As said before, there is no sequel of 3rd Strike. 3rd Strike is also an extremely easy game to grasp, as much as I play it, it's depth honestly does not touch CvS2, Marvel or possibly even Super Turbo. You're comparing a, what is a well received game with no forthcoming sequel, to a game that has a planned sequel. I can't make any garuntees on the future because neither of us are psychic, but Smash is and has been a very very popular tournament game, along with 3rd Strike.

B) People who play 3S play other fighting games. REAL fighting games. That gives them more credibility as a judge of depth than the vast majority of Smashers who have never played another fighting game in their life.
Ignorance again, Smash is a "real" fighting game, just because it's mechanics differ (it's more closely related to a 3d fighter even though it's on a 2d plane), instead of focusing on removing life, it focuses entirely on ringouts. The game's mechanics fit in very well into the fighting game genre whether you decide to ignore them or not. And you're again claiming their ignorance as a point, when you are being A) Just as ignorant, B) I'm not DEFENDING their ignorance.

C) You take Justin Wong and give him 4 hours to practice and learn Smash and I guarantee he would place in the top 6 of any random Smash tourney with guys who have been "mastering" the game for over 5 years.
You take any top Smash player who has never played another fighter in his life (SC2 doesn't count, sorry), give him 4 hours, and have him enter any Marvel or 3S and he won't even know what the hell he's doing.
My point?
Depending on the tournament, and you're choice of ONE person who is known to be extremely skilled at video games, yes, he could potentially win at smash, what this prove is that "regular" fighting games do have skills that cross over to Smash (spacial control, similar reliance on execution, reaction time, mind games), which in turn, Smash skills DO carry over to "regular" fighting games. Most Smash players are scrubs, congratulations, most players of ANY game are in fact, scrubs. I've never played Smash very much but I was able to pick up the basics quickly, the only hurdle is a Smash player having to adjust to the control scheme of a regular fighter, which may be a commentary on why the Smash scene is much larger than most of our fighting scenes. If a Smash player could grasp the basic control scheme of CvS2, I would estimate that they could pick up a Capcom fighter at a similar pace as a Capcom player picking up Smash.

What you are showing is that you're being extremely ignorant of the entire situation, and you are using mostly hyperbole and hypothetical situations to argue.

[oyg]

Can't we all get along and say..
Hey, maybe this Guide actually motivated some casual gamer to take these kind of games seriously. Instead of saying "HEY UR GAME SUCKS" we should be adopting some sort of Open-Arm philosophy towards these games. Sure, my friends play 3S and I play GG, I've tried many times to get them to play GG but there's only one way to get them to do it and it's just to show em. As long as they play a fighting game, even if it is DOA or SSBM, isn't it a fighting game? Who knows, maybe when they get tired of playing them they'll come to 3S or CvS2. The hot-headed attitude of "We don't like your kind here!" is surely not going to win em over.

[pherai]

What you are showing is that you're being extremely ignorant of the entire situation, and you are using mostly hyperbole and hypothetical situations to argue.

Well, he is right that FG players that play SF mostly are more likely to play several different fighters. And not just other Capcom games, but Tekken, or Guilty Gear, or Melty Blood, or King of Fighters, or others still. I won't make any criticisms of the games themselves, but I can feel confident in saying that Smash players tend to be more close minded about branching out.

That, and there was CFJ, but 3s outlasted that. Not exactly a sequel, but close.

[Henaki]

Well, he is right that FG players that play SF mostly are more likely to play several different fighters. And not just other Capcom games, but Tekken, or Guilty Gear, or Melty Blood, or King of Fighters, or others still. I won't make any criticisms of the games themselves, but I can feel confident in saying that Smash players tend to be more close minded about branching out.

That, and there was CFJ, but 3s outlasted that. Not exactly a sequel, but close.

Oh there's no doubt about that, mostly because of the community, similarities and ease of adoption from fighter to another. All the games still use QCF motions, the community plays pretty much everything BUT Smash, and most of our fighters are playable on the same control schemes (6 button PS2 joysticks) and consoles (PS2). Smash is more difficult to group in with "standard" fighting games not because of the gameplay really, but the control scheme, community and even game system. However once you know hitboxes, space control and mindgames, which are in Smash, once you overcome the control hurdles of a 2d or 3d fighter in our community, the same skillset applies.

However, his argument altogether is pretty bad. Arguing over depth and which game is better is petty. I say treat all games as equals, even Smash and even not Smash, to the respective communities.

[ShinjiGohan]

Best EX Game-Street Fighter EX 2 probably. Dunno if this was accepted by the community or not. ShinjiGohan knows more than me.


There is no game that is best accepted.

Fans of ST liked EX1 the best, fans of Alpha liked EX2 the best, and fans of vs and ST liked EX3 the best.

[BPC]

I very rarely ever post on SRK but this thread is unbelievable. Anyone who is hating on smash needs to STFU right now. I will come out and say it: You don't know shit. How many of you actually played at a competitive level? Don't give me BS that you played it but didn't like it no matter how hard you tried. A real gamer will compete regardless of if they like the game. Do I like 3S? Hell no, but I still compete and I still have fun competing despite me not liking the game. Its time to go over some of your arguments for why Smash sucks:

1. The community is what we truly hate

Good for you, that is completly irrelevent. Until you show them up and start placing high in tournies why should they respect you in THEIR world. Before there was even a "professional" community SRK has been hating on smash. The hate was justified for the 64 version which was so stupidly broken it wasn't even funny (I should know I competed nationally). But then the completly blind ignorance and hate that you guys have for Melee is unreal. The game is a great game and has depth comming out of its ass. A random player cant beat a top player. A mediocre player cant beat a top player. You have to be extremely good in order to compete and unless you have a very deep knowledge of the game dont open your mouth because the game is far from random. The top players in the community dont diss on fighting games other than Smash yet you refuse to recognize their skill. Those are the people you need to talk to; not the general community. The same goes for any fighting game; I don't care what random asshat from florida thinks because he doesn't have enough knowledge for his words to have immediate value.

So how do you fix the problem? Someone from the "normal" community needs to start placing high in tournaments. Then you have room to talk and say one of two things: "This game sucks and takes no skill" or "You guys should try out other fighting games, they are good competive games just a different style of gameplay". Until this day happens STFU about the community and try and embrace it. Educate them instead of saying "You don't know anything OUR games are better" if its not too hard to see from that high horse your on. They will respect you if you beat them at their own game. A few big name players will be playing Brawl when it comes out...so im sure you will see it happen sooner than you think.

2. The game isn't a tourny game just a fun game when your drunk

Gratz on having the same view of their game that the majority of the WORLD has when they see you play GG, DR, 3S, etc etc etc. This can only be made out of ignorance or not caring and honestly if its from not caring about the game then just shut up and be on your way because your comments are un needed. The game isnt random and there is no property people cant reproduce 100% of the time. The top players consistantly win tournies so it cant be random as then it would be a crapshoot. Then people whine and whine about how the game isnt 100% balanced. I wont waste my breath other than that you should take street fighter 1 for a spin and tell me how fun balance is.

As far as just general things to say:

A lot of you think the gameplay is really different from "normal" fighting games and you would be right it is. But the gameplay differes hugely from game to game anyway. 3Ds play differently from 2Ds and vice versa. Really the only thing that stays the same in all fighting games is ranging people and that doesnt change in smash.

You all love the games you play but that doesnt mean everyone does...Have a talk with some of the OG street fighter players and ask them what they think about the Guilty Gear series..their answer might startle you.

In the end a competitive game is a competitive game and they sure as hell aren't apples and oranges like a lot of you seem to think. Before you all ask, no I dont compete in Melee but I have friends who do. Surprise surprise they also compete in Tekken, CvS2, and SC3. I personally compete in Sc3, Tekken, 3S, GG(not at the moment though and im not good).

And finally for those of you who say the game is OK but not good enough to be used in tournies I leave you with this: Tekken 4 was nationally competitive.....




Seriously it was...I know you all want to forget, but it was.

[Sabin]

C) You take Justin Wong and give him 4 hours to practice and learn Smash and I guarantee he would place in the top 6 of any random Smash tourney with guys who have been "mastering" the game for over 5 years.
You take any top Smash player who has never played another fighter in his life (SC2 doesn't count, sorry), give him 4 hours, and have him enter any Marvel or 3S and he won't even know what the hell he's doing.
My point?
Learning SF gives you knowledge of the bases of ALL fighting games...Smash does not. Therefore, even without the common fact that SFers actually play multiple fighting games, even SFers who only learn one SF game have a much better sense of fighting games than a Smasher.



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA, i lol'ed irl when i read this. :rofl:

Deadly Alliance is a unit of the Empire that is one of the BEST teams in the USA in Smash. Justin has tried learning the game for more than 4 hours and got rocked by Wes, a top Smash player that plays Samus. Seriously....when Justin plays SSBM against vets its not even close since they have way more knowledge about the game than him.

Just admit that you don't like the game and you don't know anything about it, man...I dunno why youre trying to argue that Smash is trash here.

henaki stop wasting your time typing essays up, noone is gonna listen anyway.

pz

[G.O.T]

I very rarely ever post on SRK but this thread is unbelievable. Anyone who is hating on smash needs to STFU right now. I will come out and say it: You don't know shit. How many of you actually played at a competitive level? Don't give me BS that you played it but didn't like it no matter how hard you tried. A real gamer will compete regardless of if they like the game. Do I like 3S? Hell no, but I still compete and I still have fun competing despite me not liking the game. Its time to go over some of your arguments for why Smash sucks:

1. The community is what we truly hate

Good for you, that is completly irrelevent. Until you show them up and start placing high in tournies why should they respect you in THEIR world. Before there was even a "professional" community SRK has been hating on smash. The hate was justified for the 64 version which was so stupidly broken it wasn't even funny (I should know I competed nationally). But then the completly blind ignorance and hate that you guys have for Melee is unreal. The game is a great game and has depth comming out of its ass. A random player cant beat a top player. A mediocre player cant beat a top player. You have to be extremely good in order to compete and unless you have a very deep knowledge of the game dont open your mouth because the game is far from random. The top players in the community dont diss on fighting games other than Smash yet you refuse to recognize their skill. Those are the people you need to talk to; not the general community. The same goes for any fighting game; I don't care what random asshat from florida thinks because he doesn't have enough knowledge for his words to have immediate value.

So how do you fix the problem? Someone from the "normal" community needs to start placing high in tournaments. Then you have room to talk and say one of two things: "This game sucks and takes no skill" or "You guys should try out other fighting games, they are good competive games just a different style of gameplay". Until this day happens STFU about the community and try and embrace it. Educate them instead of saying "You don't know anything OUR games are better" if its not too hard to see from that high horse your on. They will respect you if you beat them at their own game. A few big name players will be playing Brawl when it comes out...so im sure you will see it happen sooner than you think.

2. The game isn't a tourny game just a fun game when your drunk

Gratz on having the same view of their game that the majority of the WORLD has when they see you play GG, DR, 3S, etc etc etc. This can only be made out of ignorance or not caring and honestly if its from not caring about the game then just shut up and be on your way because your comments are un needed. The game isnt random and there is no property people cant reproduce 100% of the time. The top players consistantly win tournies so it cant be random as then it would be a crapshoot. Then people whine and whine about how the game isnt 100% balanced. I wont waste my breath other than that you should take street fighter 1 for a spin and tell me how fun balance is.

As far as just general things to say:

A lot of you think the gameplay is really different from "normal" fighting games and you would be right it is. But the gameplay differes hugely from game to game anyway. 3Ds play differently from 2Ds and vice versa. Really the only thing that stays the same in all fighting games is ranging people and that doesnt change in smash.

You all love the games you play but that doesnt mean everyone does...Have a talk with some of the OG street fighter players and ask them what they think about the Guilty Gear series..their answer might startle you.

In the end a competitive game is a competitive game and they sure as hell aren't apples and oranges like a lot of you seem to think. Before you all ask, no I dont compete in Melee but I have friends who do. Surprise surprise they also compete in Tekken, CvS2, and SC3. I personally compete in Sc3, Tekken, 3S, GG(not at the moment though and im not good).

And finally for those of you who say the game is OK but not good enough to be used in tournies I leave you with this: Tekken 4 was nationally competitive.....




Seriously it was...I know you all want to forget, but it was.

Good Good. Exactly what I was trying to say- put up or shut up. It seems the fg community is killing the fg community when you begin to think about with all this bs going around hating on other games. I dont like it but I'll play competitively.

BTW. You need to hop on the GG more often. Once you start frc'in your ass off and doing it consistently. Your testosterone goes up a bit I'm serious. I been talking so much shit to my buddies, and there pissed at me. And been practicing. This is the best way to get someone to play a game they don't even like. Talk Shit.:rofl:

[pherai]

1. The community is what we truly hate

Good for you, that is completly irrelevent.

Isn't this the most relevant point so far? The original topic was a link to the gotfrag article, and people complained about smash players commenting about how smash wasn't represented in the article. Then random smash hate started, and that is irrelevant.

[The Granby]

I don't have any problem with Smash, in fact I've played in a couple tournaments and found the game both fun and unique. But you have to admit that the Smash community is rather isolated and most are no better than SRK types.

Honestly this "isolation" of communities doesn't really help much. Alot of SRK idiots would stfu if a Smash tournament was held along side something like TS or EVO. No game currently being played (not even DoA4) is devoid of skill or depth. The top players in Smash will always own random dudes from other fighting games trying out Smash. Of course the same can be said about Smash dudes trying other fighting games. But the thing is ALOT of Smash players ONLY PLAY SMASH. I think that's what bother people I guess, people feel that if you only play one fighting game you are some how a scrub or something like that.

The difference is, the SRKer's are the ones that are really on the bottom realistically. Smash players could give a shit less, they have their major tournaments weither EVO wants to be a part of them or not. They yank 100 man turn outs all the time, have a pro gaming league behind them, a devoted community, an innovative game, and some interesting top player archetypes. It's easy to shit on Doa4 cause even with an ENORMOUS amount of money thrown at the game it still fails to take off and gets some of the lowest turn outs ever and probably the worst community to ever exsist.

It's almost retarded to shit on Smash, cause frankly it is THE example of a successful main stream fighting game. Honestly, SephirothKen could literally come in here and post:

"I have unlimited competition, plenty of tournaments with big payout, a future sequel game to look forward too, pro gaming support, and respect from my peers, fuck ya'll".

And you know what? We couldn't say shit to break him down. Cause he is speaking the truth, and the smash haters are just talking out of their ass.

[G.O.T]

I don't have any problem with Smash, in fact I've played in a couple tournaments and found the game both fun and unique. But you have to admit that the Smash community is rather isolated and most are no better than SRK types.

Honestly this "isolation" of communities doesn't really help much. Alot of SRK idiots would stfu if a Smash tournament was held along side something like TS or EVO. No game currently being played (not even DoA4) is devoid of skill or depth. The top players in Smash will always own random dudes from other fighting games trying out Smash. Of course the same can be said about Smash dudes trying other fighting games. But the thing is ALOT of Smash players ONLY PLAY SMASH. I think that's what bother people I guess, people feel that if you only play one fighting game you are some how a scrub or something like that.

The difference is, the SRKer's are the ones that are really on the bottom realistically. Smash players could give a shit less, they have their major tournaments weither EVO wants to be a part of them or not. They yank 100 man turn outs all the time, have a pro gaming league behind them, a devoted community, an innovative game, and some interesting top player archetypes. It's easy to shit on Doa4 cause even with an ENORMOUS amount of money thrown at the game it still fails to take off and gets some of the lowest turn outs ever and probably the worst community to ever exsist.

It's almost retarded to shit on Smash, cause frankly it is THE example of a successful main stream fighting game. Honestly, SephirothKen could literally come in here and post:

"I have unlimited competition, plenty of tournaments with big payout, a future sequel game to look forward too, pro gaming support, and respect from my peers, fuck ya'll".

And you know what? We couldn't say shit to break him down. Cause he is speaking the truth, and the smash haters are just talking out of their ass.

:sweat: :tup: