SF2: WW tier list

[Ketsuban]

I have recently seen vids of Street Fighter 2: The World Warrior and I was wondering if anyone can give me a solid tier list for this game. I did a search of the forums but it didn't seem to yield anything.

Apparently Guile is blatantly at the top, and Ryu and Ken should be placed exactly the same since they are just pallette swaps of each other (right?).

Perhaps the (very) old school people can help me out!

[Nocturnal]

I think from what I remember Guile and Sim are top, I'm not really sure how everyone else would be placed on the list.

[SaBrE]

1.guile
2.sim
distant 3rd: gief
4-6: everyone else
7. ken (ranked slightly higher due to kick throw having roll, getting opponent to corner faster)
8. ryu

[Maj]

Ken being ranked higher than Ryu because of kick throw covering more distance is the coolest tiering justification in the history of ever.

[complexz]

well i thought this thread was stupid at first but now im real curious to know what makes honda/blanka/chun better than ryu/ken

[Ketsuban]

well i thought this thread was stupid at first but now im real curious to know what makes honda/blanka/chun better than ryu/ken

Why did you think it was stupid? I thought it was a pretty valid question.

[Gasp]

i though gief would be below guile but i guess it was just tomo > life

[Mokura]

Where have you been seeing WW vids? Send me a link!

[Soundatron]

Gief def. high. No bounce back when he lands a SPD.
Ryu & Ken are def. low imo. Slow as fireball. SRK just well suck, Hurricane Kick sux to. but cr. LKx4 for dizzy is nice

[Desk]

Ken being ranked higher than Ryu because of kick throw covering more distance is the coolest tiering justification in the history of ever.

LOL

Everyone in WW was awesome. Silly damage and easy redizzy's. WW is by far gief funnest incarnation, gauranteed cross up after SPD is far too good. Is it true it didn't have true reversal attacks?

[dialupsucky]

yea no reversals. And shoryukens didnt knock down unless both hits hit. Also certain characters couldnt block moves standing while others good. I always thought that was a cool feature, to bad they took it out shrug..

[platinum_pinoy]

I've heard Sim was top, but why? Someone explain, por favor.

[UltraDavid]

Ken and Ryu are bottom? Hm, wouldn't have guessed.

Gief is only good because he wins if he gets in spd range once.

[BKB]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsWjGzbSSvc

[felineki]

Also certain characters couldnt block moves standing while others good. I always thought that was a cool feature, to bad they took it out shrug..That actually persisted through Super Turbo, although much more limited in scope.

Good example is Cammy c.MP in ST. Everyone can block it high, except for T. Hawk and Zangief. The reason this occurs is because every character has 3 "receiving" boxes (boxes that can be hit), a high, a middle, and a low. When you block standing, anything that touches the high or middle boxes will get blocked. But if something touches only the low box (like most sweeps, for example), then it will hit.

Each character has different receiving boxes obviously, since each character is a different size and shape. Zangief and T. Hawk are both tall, so their "low" boxes extend up a bit higher than everyone elses, leaving them vulnerable to Cammy's c.MP.

[DEMON_JIM]

Each character has different receiving boxes obviously, since each character is a different size and shape. Zangief and T. Hawk are both tall, so their "low" boxes extend up a bit higher than everyone elses, leaving them vulnerable to Cammy's c.MP.

Nice post there very informative. I knew about THawk but didnt know Gief had the same effect. Quick question though seeing as the "tall" characters are vulnerable to that hit does that make Vega(claw) vulnerable to that as well, he is a rather tall character. Or does tall mean tall and big like bulky?

-DJ-

[felineki]

Nice post there very informative. I knew about THawk but didnt know Gief had the same effect. Quick question though seeing as the "tall" characters are vulnerable to that hit does that make Vega(claw) vulnerable to that as well, he is a rather tall character. Or does tall mean tall and big like bulky?

-DJ-
The coordinates of the boxes aren't directly related to the character's actual size, they're just whatever the programmers felt worked at the time. I don't think Vega has the same vulnerability, meaning that his low box is shorter than T. Hawk's, even though his sprite might be about the same height.

[Maj]

And shoryukens didnt knock down unless both hits hit.
Actually they didn't knock down at all. Usually landing both hits made the opponent dizzy but if you do DP against a dizzy opponent, it won't knock down.

Also, damage is so fucking high in WW. Guile's j.HP, s.HP xx LK Flash Kick is almost 70% damage. That is, if you can manage to do two fierce hits without dizzying the opponent. Hella fair.

[Mizuki]

Ken being ranked higher than Ryu because of kick throw covering more distance is the coolest tiering justification in the history of ever.

Haha, wow... Just because of throw range. That is great.

[Ketsuban]

Thanks for the replies guys. You're all far more knowledgable about this than I am.


Where have you been seeing WW vids? Send me a link!

Just this: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x45xx_sf2wwlvl8perfectwithguilehi

I'd also been watching some casual HSF2 match vids from a recent tournament in London that had people using WW characters.

[SpinalBlood]

7. ken (ranked slightly higher due to kick throw having roll, getting opponent to corner faster)

LOOOL

[Middlekick]

ken (ranked slightly higher due to kick throw having roll, getting opponent to corner faster)


SPM would be proud.

[Hokage Izlude]

2.sim

Who the hell is Sim?

[Gimpy]

Who the hell is Sim?



Dhalsim.

[evilmuffinmanX]

any ww match vids?

[Hokage Izlude]

Dhalsim.

Oh! I KNEW that!

:(

[Ryu & Ken]

OMG I thought Ryu was second behind Guile ?

[nomrah]

Sim's justification for being 2nd is the fact that he's the only one that really has a chance against WW Guile.

[Shinto]

Sim's justification for being 2nd is the fact that he's the only one that really has a chance against WW Guile.

LoL so I could imagine a tourny full of Guile and Dhalsim.:lol:

[r3ko]

Sorry to bring up an old thread, but i got stuff to add.

Hehe, the London tourney was probably Super Vs Battle. As far as i know i was the only person busting heads there with World Warrior characters. Mainly WW Sim with a little WW Guile. After alot of hard matches and a redizzy, i eventually came 3rd with alot of help from ST Dictator in the later stages. I was fairly new to WW sim back then, but i gotta say he is a very solid character, and in my personal opinion a secret high tier character.

Vids

My Redizzy on Chunkis with WW-Guile in last 16.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PUzwaqicmA

The Matches from my group (you'll probably need to register on the forum before you can download)
http://www.neoempire.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1397

Top 8 - I use WW-sim in the semi-final against Progidal Son, i lose :(
http://www.neoempire.com/svb2k7hsf.htm

OK, about the Tiers.
Heres supposedly an official Tier list from Capcom i found on a.g.sf2. Not sure about the source, but looks pretty accurate, apart from Gief. Also Sim's score doesn't add up to 38, its 35.


Which character is the best? How do characters compare against one
another?


This is how Capcom rates each character's potential versus the other
characters. Each number represents how many matches out of 10 the
character on the left would win against opponents on the top.
(This chart is pre-Championship Edition.)


Guile Dhalsim Chun Li Blanka Ken/Ryu Honda Zangief total


Guile - 5 6 7 6 8 8 40
Dhalsim 5 - 5 4 7 6 8 38
Chun Li 4 5 - 6 6 4 6 31
Blanka 3 6 4 - 6 4 6 29
Ryu/Ken 4 3 4 4 - 7 7 29
Honda 2 4 6 6 3 - 7 28
Zangief 2 2 4 4 3 3 - 18


Note that this table is arguable, and in any case, it is only a measure
of a character's *potential* against others. A character is only as
good as the player using him/her.

[polarity]

The Matches from my group (you'll probably need to register on the forum before you can download)
http://www.neoempire.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1397

ugh x_x

[Dasrik]

It's frequently stated that shotos are the absolute worst in WW.

I fail to see how they don't beat Honda or Chun-Li, though.

[UltraDavid]

Haha, Capcom had an official tier list? Did they PLAN for Gief to lose every matchup? That's pretty retarded, if so. And talk about being way off with his matchups.

[Josh-TheFunkDOC]

IMO Gief is 3rd best.

If he gets one knockdown vs. anyone, it's over. WW characters can't perform reversals, a property which remains even in AE.

-Josh

[Return of Shiki]

From the Japanese tier-lists I've seen:

Guile is the best character in the game, Dhalsim is the only character who can beat Guile, and Chun counters Dhalsim straight out.

So it's:
Everyone Else < Guile < Dhalsim < Chun < Guile

EDIT: Zang is kinda the Wild Card...for the reasons Josh just mentioned.

[Cardinal_Sin]

When people say that WW had no reversals, what actually happens when you input a DP on the first frame of getting up / getting out of blockstun? Is the character completely vulnerable (i.e. can't block, can't do any inputs on stick) for that 1 frame?

edit: ok wait not being able to block is pretty dumb statement

but does the game just not accept button inputs? I guess I find it kind of strange that they explicitly coded it so you couldn't attack for a set period of time.

[rogueyoshi]

well, reversals are there so that you can input a move a bit before actually recovering.

[Cardinal_Sin]

ohhhhh .... so the game just doesn't let you input anything WHILE you are in either state (except for charge I guess), that makes sense.

[r3ko]

I would actually rank gief 4th and chun 3rd. We all know the dangers of Geif of in WW, but no one has really mentioned the strangeness with Chun's normals. If you look at her hitboxes (viewable with some hardwork in Kawaks), then you'll see some of her hit boxes which the opponent hits are placed, practically behind her. For example her HP at the right range will just beat out a dragon punch.

[Ryu & Ken]

Since Guile since the best, how does he fare in anniversery edition?

[msdos]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2-eitsutpOc

[fishjie]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2-eitsutpOc

wtf is this

[{PFH}-Lake]

Guile and Sim are top. Then Geif, Geif was broken was he got a piledriver it was over you lost the match.

[fishjie]

can someone explain why if gief got a spd on you it was over? is this because there is no reversal, and he can just tick SPD you over and over until you die? can someone confirm

[Jion_Wansu]

can someone explain why if gief got a spd on you it was over? is this because there is no reversal, and he can just tick SPD you over and over until you die? can someone confirm


If you look, WW 'Gief does not land far from opponent after SPD compared to other 'Giefs, thus allowing time for tick into SPD over and over again, unless you SRK with Ryu/Ken

[{PFH}-Lake]

can someone explain why if gief got a spd on you it was over? is this because there is no reversal, and he can just tick SPD you over and over until you die? can someone confirm man its been years, but I think what happened was he'd piledrive you. Back then though if you did a piledriver you'd be standing right in front of them to tick throw piledriver and keep doing it over and over. If I remember right.

[Ketsuban]

Sorry to bring up an old thread, but i got stuff to add.

Hehe, the London tourney was probably Super Vs Battle. As far as i know i was the only person busting heads there with World Warrior characters. Mainly WW Sim with a little WW Guile. After alot of hard matches and a redizzy, i eventually came 3rd with alot of help from ST Dictator in the later stages. I was fairly new to WW sim back then, but i gotta say he is a very solid character, and in my personal opinion a secret high tier character.

Vids

My Redizzy on Chunkis with WW-Guile in last 16.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PUzwaqicmA

The Matches from my group (you'll probably need to register on the forum before you can download)
http://www.neoempire.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1397

Top 8 - I use WW-sim in the semi-final against Progidal Son, i lose :(
http://www.neoempire.com/svb2k7hsf.htm

OK, about the Tiers.
Heres supposedly an official Tier list from Capcom i found on a.g.sf2. Not sure about the source, but looks pretty accurate, apart from Gief. Also Sim's score doesn't add up to 38, its 35.

Interesting, thanks r3ko. Did you ever get to play as the WW versions of the boss characters btw?

[polarity]

RE: Gief, it's got nothing to do with how close he lands to you, it's the fact that there are no reversals in WW that's the problem.

[RPGv2]

I remember that it was always a race to guile, all I remember is the arcade that I was at, people always thought throwing was cheap, so you had to give a throw back, and that you always had to give a mercy round. Also tickxthrow got you beatup and tossed out of the arcade, so gief was out of the question. Lets not even mention invisible throw.

[{PFH}-Lake]

RE: Gief, it's got nothing to do with how close he lands to you, it's the fact that there are no reversals in WW that's the problem. but landing right in front of someone with no reversals just makes him better.

[fishjie]

so none of the other characters had throws that put them in tick throw range afterward? this is excluding throws in the corner. im assuming you can SPD outside of the corner and still be in range for another and this is what gief so deadly? interesting.

[UltraDavid]

Honda definitely had that, at least. Fierce grab, mash, when he lets go jump toward forward kick, fierce grab, etc. On most characters you could just hold up-toward and press forward once you got in the air, but if I recall correctly Chun Li woke up too late for that to cover her wakeup, you had to actually time it.

[polarity]

So this was asked earlier but I don't think it actually got a decent answer: Why don't reversals work in WW? Does the game simply not allow you to buffer inputs while you're grounded, or does it force you to go to a neutral state immediately after wakeup regardless?

[Onikage]

I'm probably wrong, but my understanding was that reversals have always existed - how could they not? A reversal is simply a move done on the first frame after you recover, be it on wake up or coming out of block stun, right? WW didn't have reversal messages, telling you you had performed a reversal, but you can't really *not* have reversals, if you think about the definition of reversals.

[polarity]

I'm probably wrong, but my understanding was that reversals have always existed - how could they not? A reversal is simply a move done on the first frame after you recover, be it on wake up or coming out of block stun, right? WW didn't have reversal messages, telling you you had performed a reversal, but you can't really *not* have reversals, if you think about the definition of reversals.

But it didn't have reversals, hence the two possible explanations I suggested.

[RPGv2]

on wakeup i'm not too sure about reversals, but i'm pretty sure for blockstun there were no reversals since you were able to throw the character while they were in blockstun

[polarity]

on wakeup i'm not too sure about reversals, but i'm pretty sure for blockstun there were no reversals since you were able to throw the character while they were in blockstun

I'm pretty sure you couldn't...

[UltraDavid]

You definitely can't throw someone in blockstun. I don't remember if you can perform a wakeup reversal, but it doesn't really matter because Gief (and Honda, probably the non-Dhalsim others too) can do safe jumps against everyone's special moves, and it isn't even that hard to time.