help out a KOF98 newbie

[kev_the_bev]

I'm just getting into this game now, what tips would you guys give me? I usually use Yamazaki, Billy Kane, and Lucky Glauber. I also occasionally use Robert, Andy, and Heavy D!. I've played a few matches online through Kaillera and they all resulted in me getting sonned.

[Dark Geese]

Theres a thread in the Other Games section, theres my Eye of the Ragin Storm thread, choose one or both they will both help you out.

[Overworld]

Yeah, and if you're going to play it online, definitely look up the Poporu thread in the Kaillera section, you can play that game with much, much better connections.

[Demon Dash]

I wanted to do that crazy Terry shit at one point but I couldn't figure it out...

[jae hoon]

First step into getting better at 98

Drop Billy Kane

[Dandy J]

First step into getting better at 98

Drop Billy Kane
He's not that bad, hes just not the pimp 2k2 Billy is.

[nothingxs]

Yeah, Billy is alright. Just don't pick Another Billy.

[Emil]

I'm just getting into this game now, what tips would you guys give me? I usually use Yamazaki, Billy Kane, and Lucky Glauber. I also occasionally use Robert, Andy, and Heavy D!. I've played a few matches online through Kaillera and they all resulted in me getting sonned.

I just played you in kof2k2...you were mashing. I would recommend not hitting buttons over and over, and instead thinking about what you're doing, why you're doing it, why it would hit me in the first place, etc. For example, with Billy, there's no need to keep hitting d+A rapidly, resulting in the stick spin move because that move is useless. Also, his sweep is garbage, don't ever use it. And with all characters, don't always end your guard strings with sweeps, it makes you extremely predictable...

[jindo]

Use high tier characters like: Ralph, Clark, Daimon. Grapplers are so strong in 98.

[Terry_nb]

Use high tier characters like: Ralph, Clark, Daimon. Grapplers are so strong in 98.

Sure, but for a beginner it would be easier starting with 95 Ryo for example, when we take the tops into account.

Btw kev_the_bev, for Andy try to use his another version. It got a better fireball, better dp (knocks down better), better DM (qcf,qcf+P is a way faster DM then the normal versions one) and can generally bring in easier DM combos thx to c.B, d/f+A, qcf,qcf+P, which combos for his alternative version. He still got all his main stuff intact. The lose of his qcf+P etc. air stuff is not important, it is not as good as in later games. The hcf+P loss is also not a problem, too. For this you got other options now into DM's from a low. His poking is quite the same (c.B, far s.C and d/b,f+P are still good). He also still builds meter fast and is usually a good first char in a team ...

[Rengoku]

don't spread info between so much threads pls

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=126042

[Dark Geese]

don't spread info between so much threads pls

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=126042

Agreed let this thread R.I.P.

[Lantis]

Btw kev_the_bev, for Andy try to use his another version. It got a better fireball, better dp (knocks down better), better DM (qcf,qcf+P is a way faster DM then the normal versions one) and can generally bring in easier DM combos thx to c.B, d/f+A, qcf,qcf+P, which combos for his alternative version. He still got all his main stuff intact. The lose of his qcf+P etc. air stuff is not important, it is not as good as in later games. The hcf+P loss is also not a problem, too. For this you got other options now into DM's from a low. His poking is quite the same (c.B, far s.C and d/b,f+P are still good). He also still builds meter fast and is usually a good first char in a team ...

:wtf: Dude, WTF? Normal Andy is WAAAAY better than EX Andy.

You say the loss of his HCF + P is not a problem? Hell, that move allows for some pretty mean juggle combos. It also gives him a new tool for close-up tactics.

And his air stuff is also important, especially when used after a f + B or during hops, just to add some mixups to his air game.

EX Andy is just too bland and predictable.

[Terry_nb]

:wtf: Dude, WTF? Normal Andy is WAAAAY better than EX Andy.

You say the loss of his HCF + P is not a problem? Hell, that move allows for some pretty mean juggle combos. It also gives him a new tool for close-up tactics.

And his air stuff is also important, especially when used after a f + B or during hops, just to add some mixups to his air game.

EX Andy is just too bland and predictable.

K, we should let this thread die, but one last thing ...

I guess you overrate the hcf+P like so many before. First thing Andy can only combo his SDM qcb,hcf+K after it, which is a waste of 2 stocks so the mentioned c.B,d/f+A into DM is a way better DM combo (2 of them take more then the SDM one or you do one and safe the other stock for CD counter etc.). He also can't get to close vs most chars, or they rape him (like Iori). The move hits in generel a lot less then a c.B, so pls don't overrate it. Andy has also less options without meter after the hcf+P then in KOF 2k2 for example.

Second, the better fireball and dp make his game way more stable and you can now also work from full screen.

Third, his air stuff doesn't beat out as much as in later game and the sweep after the air elbow is not garanted and slow, which totally destroys a possible mix up with the overhead follow up. You can block them on reaction, exspecially the overhead, because it is really really easy to see ...

[Emil]

I guess you overrate the hcf+P like so many before. First thing Andy can only combo his SDM qcb,hcf+K after it, which is a waste of 2 stocks so the mentioned c.B,d/f+A into DM is a way better DM combo (2 of them take more then the SDM one or you do one and safe the other stock for CD counter etc.).

There are many combos after his hcf+P. I believe the non-stock combos with hcf+P do almost as much damage than if he comboed into DM.

In maxmode, he actually has more options after hcf+P than in 2k2.

[Terry_nb]

There are many combos after his hcf+P. I believe the non-stop combos with hcf+P do almost as much damage than if he comboed into DM.

In maxmode, he actually has more options after hcf+P than in 2k2.

The normal DM after his hcf+P is total crap, never use that. The only worthy thing in terms of combos including DM and SDM's for normal Andy would be the SDM after the hcf+P.

Well ..., maxmode doesn't exist in KOF98. I guess you mean if you break a stock. Well he would have just the usual d/f+A, whatever you like more as ender ... In 2k2 Andy can vary his hcf+P combos to a bigger extent.

Whatever, the hcf+P is not an argument in terms of going for normal Andy, but I guess and hope you all know that. It#s a different story if you just want to play what may brings you more fun.

[Lantis]

There is also the run-up/Shoryudan after HCF + P. That does a decent amount of damage. I THINK you can add a DF + A before the Shoryudan for maximum damage.

Andy's HCF + P also has a lot more range than other command throws like it (like Ryo or Robert's), so it's techically more effective.

The thing here is that normal Andy has a lot more offensive weapons to work with WITHOUT stock. EX Andy has a pretty limited arsenal to work with, and his offense is kinda predictable, making him more easy to counter all out.

[Cavern mantis]

trouble with andy 's fireball is the recovery is damn long seriously,Second, the better fireball and dp make his game way more stable and you can now also work from full screen.

And the fireball animation is excactly the same for both andys in terms of start up and recovery,and personally i guess fireballing from full screen with him is not a good idea.
the combos starting with down b etc to dm are good .the advantage of this dm is that andy steps a bit forward when it triggers it make you earn useful range in certain circumstances.
The loss of the dam breaker for ex andy is quiet a pity

[Middlekick]

There is also the run-up/Shoryudan after HCF + P. That does a decent amount of damage. I THINK you can add a DF + A before the Shoryudan for maximum damage.

Dash-> (deep) DF+A-> jumping C+D was Andy's most damaging non-DM follow-up, I think. He can also go into a 50/50 mix-up from the HCF+P.


Andy's HCF + P also has a lot more range than other command throws like it (like Ryo or Robert's), so it's techically more effective.

Now this is not true.

Throw ranges:
Andy's HCF+P: 16 dots
Robert's HCF+K: 18 dots
Ryo's HCF+P: 18 dots



I believe the non-stock combos with hcf+P do almost as much damage than if he comboed into DM.

crouching B->DF+A (2 hits)-> QCFX2+A: 48 points damage
crouching B-> HCF+C-> dash DF+A( 2 hits)-> jumping C+D: 39 points damage
A full life bar: 103 pixels Shot: http://img240.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kof98n001wx3.jpg

RB2 Andy can land his version of the combo from slightly farther away and generally has a much easier time comboing his DMs. From this we say that he also has a more damaging high/low game and can use a single stock to punish openings more effectively.

[Emil]

crouching B->DF+A (2 hits)-> QCFX2+A: 48 points damage
crouching B-> HCF+C-> dash DF+A( 2 hits)-> jumping C+D: 39 points damage
A full life bar: 103 pixels Shot: http://img240.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kof98n001wx3.jpg

I was mainly referring to using close C, hcf+C. Also, he doesn't need stock for his combos. And lastly, comparing damage the way you do is not totally correct since damage in kof is pretty random.

Another thing to consider is if RB2 Andy lands crouch B, df+A from outside the corner, his qcb+A doesn't combo, unlike normal Andy. RB2's fireball isn't very useful due to it's poor recovery. You can't really punish people for jumping over it or anything. Also, since it's a high projectile, many characters can go under it with slides and sweeps (like Kyo's).

[Middlekick]

I was mainly referring to using close C, hcf+C. Also, he doesn't need stock for his combos.

Even so, the point I was trying to make was that it's still more damage for RB2 Andy any way you look at it.

And lastly, comparing damage the way you do is not totally correct since damage in kof is pretty random.

The damage was recorded under pretty normal conditions, and I doubt that the apparent "random" damage inconsistencies will change which combo does more.

Another thing to consider is if RB2 Andy lands crouch B, df+A from outside the corner, his qcb+A doesn't combo, unlike normal Andy.

Not really an issue when you should be comboing into the more damaging Zan'ei Ken + finisher; secondly, even if RB2 Andy's Hishoken connects, it leaves him with some frame-disadvantage, so using it in combos isn't really recommended.


RB2's fireball isn't very useful due to it's poor recovery. You can't really punish people for jumping over it or anything.

He can anti-air opponents who jump the A Hishoken from full-screen (or near to it) with his DP+C. He can also recover in time to dash into a combo and or Zan'ei ken against characters who try to roll, if he has enough distance. It's no Kensou fireball, that for sure, but it does have some use.

Also, since it's a high projectile, many characters can go under it with slides and sweeps (like Kyo's).

Agreed. Chin and Choi can simply crouch to avoid it.

[Dandy J]

Having a true option against a blocking opponent out of a short hop mixup or in general > a crappy fireball and better DP. Andy doesn't have a mash throw so he has no other option for throwing, and hes not a powerhouse like Terry or Kyo or something to live without that option.

Also Middlekick do you have some kind of guide or something? Just wondering since those grab ranges are real precise. Or did you test in Kawaks? I was going to test Heidern's C throw actually, I swear that thing has like 1/2 the break window of any other throw.

[Middlekick]

http://dune-enud.web.infoseek.co.jp/kouryaku/frame.html

[Dandy J]

Thanks for the link, this is great!

[Terry_nb]

RB2 Andy can land his version of the combo from slightly farther away and generally has a much easier time comboing his DMs. From this we say that he also has a more damaging high/low game and can use a single stock to punish openings more effectively.

This is some truth, yeah good to see someone know what I tried to say ...

Also like he said, you combo into Zaneiken and not the fireball anyway after a d/f+A without stock or when you want to safe it.