Do you guys think that there is actually 5 gods?

[Cisco]

5th being IronMan.

Ya, i know... allot will say he's too slow, but lets not deny the fact that he can kill your entire team just lik the gods, infact storm can't do that w/o a DHC such as sentinel.

I expect that many will say no because he is too slow and he can't force mistakes,
Most people say that all you have to do is not go forward and just play on the defenisive.. i really don't think you can just do that, especially if IM has doom or drones because you will be pinned by smartbombs and rocks.
IM has allot of things anyway that makes up for his speed, such as his reach and zoning with smart bombs. Smartbombs+Rocks or drones are excellent in helping him get to the opponent, and it will forc the opponent to start going at him in close combat since blocking (just to prevent yourself from getting hit into the infinite) isn't going to do the opponent any good (due to doom).

I really think people need to admit that IM is that dangerous and does dserve to placed in the top 5 bracket. He gives so much to a team, an excellent assist, an excellent DHC, and he (as everyone knows) can kill your whole team. He kills the first character, GB the next one coming out...

It's not easy to escape IM's GB, its harder compared to cables. All you have to counter cable's GB is to take the hit of the J.hp... i'm not trying to say that IM is btter than cable now; it's just an example of how powerful IM is.

thanks for the replies. :)

[sealhunta]

if u never seen a tournament ironman in action here is a link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHpcFjm4oBQ

[Cisco]

if u never seen a tournament ironman in action here is a link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHpcFjm4oBQ

i've seen that vid before.. it's one of the reasons why i made this discussion.

Some guys really need to stop pretending that IM doesn't need to be taken seriously.

The next match was tam row vs IM/storm/Psy, then the vid ended... is there a continuation of that?
Anymore good IM match vids?

[sealhunta]

i voted

4 gods only; he is just top 5 of the top tier


i always took ironman seriously but the gods are in a leauge of their own. they are just more grand. i cant explain it but its like they have more weapons. but the difference of the god teir and the 2nd tier is small.

i really think we should re organize the tiers so its like

sent storm mag cable

ironman cyclops doom spiral

dhalsim strider blackheart war machine

basically each tier should just have 4 ppl.

and i think more ppl should experiment with dhalsim. he is fast like magneto, he has a standing infinite, he can handle sent. everyone with a trijump is good. a whole new levels of gameplay open up for ppl who can tri jump, unfly, infinite, etc.

[Whiff]

IM can do well against 3 of the gods. His only problem would be trying to chase down Cable.

[Cisco]

i voted

4 gods only; he is just top 5 of the top tier


i always took ironman seriously but the gods are in a leauge of their own. they are just more grand. i cant explain it but its like they have more weapons. but the difference of the god teir and the 2nd tier is small.

i really think we should re organize the tiers so its like

sent storm mag cable

ironman cyclops doom spiral

dhalsim strider blackheart war machine

basically each tier should just have 4 ppl.

and i think more ppl should experiment with dhalsim. he is fast like magneto, he has a standing infinite, he can handle sent. everyone with a trijump is good. a whole new levels of gameplay open up for ppl who can tri jump, unfly, infinite, etc.


i like your post. I agree with the 4 people on each tier, it's just i think strider and spiral are tied, or strider and cyke are tied. The forth in the 3rd tier bracket would be anakaris since he also has top tier like tools; tools for any character and high damage as well... he just has crap ass vitality.

[Augmint]

i've seen that vid before.. it's one of the reasons why i made this discussion.

Some guys really need to stop pretending that IM doesn't need to be taken seriously.

I really think people need to admit that IM is that dangerous and does dserve to placed in the top 5 bracket.



"Some guys" are people from gamefaqs - don't bring the nonsense in that thread here. And the "thanks for the replies" :shake:

making a statement then wanting replies is borderline trolling.

Maybe you should wait until IM actually starts winning touneys - then go gooey and tell everyone I told you so.

whiff - you smell - sent/commando fucks up IM.

You could make strong arguments about how strider or spiral is 5th - its not clear cut.

[KillerKai]

Strider > Spiral > Cyclops > Doom > Iron Man

that is all

[Rod Driguez]

IM can be extremely effective, but there aren't that many players dedicated to him. Very dangerous, though.


Definitely not a "god tier" character, also definitely not a "me, too" character. Might as well be talking about Spiral or a very good Strider. About the same boat in expert hands.

[<---SiNN--->]

I dont think IM is a god,I think he is a machine.

[redshuma57]

Strider > Spiral > Cyclops > Doom > Iron Man

that is all

yea cyc is way better then im

[sealhunta]

yeah hes a risky person to play with, as Zachd would put it, hes a gamble

[ParryPerson.]

Well, getting raped by Buckethead and his IM last weekend at evo south, I'd want to say yes, but thats just not the case.

as far as the whole "GOD TIER" business, I use thrax/msp, but strongly believe in my sig.

[Remix1213]

Imo i think IM is top 4 easy cable needs to move down. Im is top 4 for the following reasons...

1. He can kill a team in one hit
2. He doesnt need to physically hit them to do it
3. He has an Air to Ground infinite
4. His buttons are fast and hard to beat out
5. If he has a lead he can run away pretty well
6. He can chip well
7. He has range with his attacks
8. He has unescapeable guardbreaks
9. He can mix people up
10. He has multiple infinites and setups

[Cisco]

Nah, i don't think he is higher than cable. Cable is higher because he has a higher comeback rate, given the meter. IM is 5 and that should be well accepted, i don't think any of the rest such as cyke, spiral, doom, and strider have that comeback potential compared to IM. Isn't there vids on youtube where IM kills a full team? I remembr one of those vids where IM was the only one left, with barely half of his health and he still managed to take out the entire santhrax team. Just one after the other.
I don't think cyke, doom, spiral, or strider are capable of something like that, especially strider or spiral if doom or sent is taken out.

[J360]

Imo i think IM is top 4 easy cable needs to move down. Im is top 4 for the following reasons...

1. He can kill a team in one hit
2. He doesnt need to physically hit them to do it
3. He has an Air to Ground infinite
4. His buttons are fast and hard to beat out
5. If he has a lead he can run away pretty well
6. He can chip well
7. He has range with his attacks
8. He has unescapeable guardbreaks
9. He can mix people up
10. He has multiple infinites and setups

very true i think IM is better than cable as well the funny part is that people are only used to fighting an im that tries to rush, try fighting an iron man with solid assist that runs away and the risk of trying to hit him is to great cause you might die =/

[Cisco]

making a statement then wanting replies is borderline trolling.

You're retarded. How is saying "Thanks for the replies" equivelent to asking for replies? lol.

Maybe you should wait until IM actually starts winning touneys - then go gooey and tell everyone I told you so.

capcom has been placed on high ranks more times than that of spiral, strider, clops, and doom? Is he considered top 5? No. IM has shown enough because he has enough to keep him in the argument of being top5.

whiff - you smell - sent/commando fucks up IM.
IM/Doom can do good against Sentinel/Commando.

[J360]

sent commando gets beat up by im/cap. if you guys are just limiting iron man to mainstream teams you guys see all the time than shame on you. iron man counters the rest of the god tiers with random teams and character counters or you can just say combofiend beats all =D. if your a smart iron man and know how to get the hit everyone dies =D and if your judging IM on people who dont know his matchups all to well than thats bad too. i say hes a cheap fuck and is easily top 5

[randomsuper]

im is really good but he gets raped too easy. he either works really well or not at all. and while im can kill a whole team, it doesn't happen all that often outside of casual.

[J360]

im is really good but he gets raped too easy. he either works really well or not at all. and while im can kill a whole team, it doesn't happen all that often outside of casual.

it happens all too often in tourney =D. the only reason he would get raped is either

1) the person doesnt use IM's priority in their advantage ie. standing RH!!!
2) the person getting raped either can't block or gets baited easily
3) the person doesnt spam STANDING RH!!! enough

[gouki10]

Ironman is Good

But not God

the only thing keeping him from being god is a quicker mix up game.

if he had the speed of Magneto's air dash, he would be God.

Ironman's Problem isn't that he can't force mistakes in blocking, it's that he needs something holding them in block already so he can get close and get that "you gotta "guess" Tri jump/Cross up/low mix up game.

Which is why Ironman needs either Doom/.or if your that good/or playing agianst Mag/Storm, you can use drones.

Ironman is one character that to do what he needs to do, he will HAVE to use the Assist (Rocks) to lock them down to get that easy guessing game mix up, and once he touches you.........DEATH.

Ironman Definenetly has the means to play from a distances. Of course you are gonna work your way in close, but he also has to start setting up his game from a distance.

Sj Smartbombs, C.hp + Assist xx unibeam, dash up.

etc.

then with his Priorty he can beat out moves that the "Gods" have with good timing and spacing.

as a character

i give Iroman 8/10, he's ground dash can be worked around, but the fact still remains that he needs to lock someone down first before he becomes the "Touch of Death" that he is known to be.

[randomsuper]

he's a great character, very possibly the 5th best character in the game, but i still wouldn't put him in the god tier. he's better than cable that's for sure, but since this game is rarely a one on one affair, cable generally can just keep him out forever and very possibly hit him or his assist with that ghostbuster beam. that's definately a factor when determining who's godly and who isn't. lots of characters by themselves are ok, add the right assist, and you've got a murderer. i just don't see im having that type of power. his dhc is RIDICULOUS though.

[SNAKESHOTPEOPLE]

it happens all too often in tourney =D. the only reason he would get raped is either

1) the person doesnt use IM's priority in their advantage ie. standing RH!!!
2) the person getting raped either can't block or gets baited easily
3) the person doesnt spam STANDING RH!!! enough

4.) He's fighting against Strider.

[#reload]

"Some guys" are people from gamefaqs - don't bring the nonsense in that thread here.

true.

at worst, IM is 6th behind cyke.

as for what kai said, i think that's a horrible opinion, but everyone is entitled to their own (i can only expect a strider player to be biased towards trap characters).

very true i think IM is better than cable as well the funny part is that people are only used to fighting an im that tries to rush, try fighting an iron man with solid assist that runs away and the risk of trying to hit him is to great cause you might die =/

QFT.......

people always sleep on IMs assist also, that shit is fucking annoying

[sealhunta]

ironman cant punish assits like the gods either.

all he could do i guess is proton cannon and DHC

mag sent and cable can punish an assist easy and storm can sort of punish and assist without fear.

[shoultzula]

IM > strider?

theres alot that go into deciding whos exactly top tier. Just being able to kill a character in 1 hit isn't enough. Its why war machine is considered top 15 instead of top 10.

IM may have one hit kill but imo, strider can fight matchups better and he has better option tree during the fight. IM doesn't suck ass, I just don't think he's better than strider.

[Remix1213]

I would like to see you guys play Yipes' IM then afterwards tell me that he isnt top 4...

shoultzula: War Machine is that low cause of his proton cannon and his button speed... As far as Strider vs IM Strider needs assist IM doesnt. When i see a dolo strider i laugh and taunt lol...

[SNAKESHOTPEOPLE]

all I'm saying is that Strider can beat ironman without Doom. All he needs is Zoo game and probably drones and ironman cannot get in on him at all. If he does get dangerously close, just activate orbs to be safe, build meter, repeat process, GGPO.
Whenever you talk about marvel you have to include assists because this is a team based game. So Strider has better matchups than ironman does.

There is no way Ironman is better than Cable. Cable is easier to pick up, less work needed to win, and has a higher win ratio than Ironman does. Cable is a very good character, people just sleep on him the most because they like the other three better.

[randomsuper]

im can go crazy sometimes, which is why i think he's better than cable. he has sooo many more options than cable does. at the same time, anyone who plays the game will tell you that once you throw assists into the mix, im tends to get fucked up unless the im player is much better than his opponent or the other guy fucks up.

[KillerKai]

Iron Man lacks one quality the other characters i listed have (except maybe cykes): the ability to consistently control the pace of the match. When the main gameplan of a character that slow is to chase down his faster opponent and hit him, you're nowhere near the elite. He also lacks a decent option of DHCing out.

I'm not going to comment too much on Iron Man's AA. Being a Strider/Doom player and all, I feel like a serial rapist in an all girl school when I see someone pick that assist against me. But I do love using teams that use his assist. It can put some serious hurt on Magneto and Storm. Like everything else, it has its uses.

And I will fight any top level IM with Strider without Doom. I've had to before and all I needed were Drones and animals. Iron Man has no answer to that if I spam drones and animals except super jump, which just gives me even more options.

Bottom line, the only Iron Man I may have scratch of fear of fighting is Phat's on a pad.

[RyanC]

we do have to look at results and facts people. Just look at the people with the best IM. Illan has to be one of them. Did he go to evo and destroy everyone's team? No. The bottom line is that IM is good. But getting that elusive one hit when someone knows you need that one hit is hard. And while we're at it lets stop calling it that. That one hit has to be a launcher or an air juggle. Anything else is iffy. As far as the tournaments go.... in the big tournaments you need more than IM it would seem. Cuz a team with him on it hasn't won evo or anything else. But i'm not hating. Anyone who has near flawless execution and quick reflexes could make any character godly. If anyone were to use an IM team to take out wong, sanford, wigfall, soo,..... and so forth in a tourney then i would love to see it.

[50mOrEcEnTz]

I believe ironman fairs VERY well against sent and magneto but i swear....storm and cable do present very ghey problems for IM. IM has a hard time doing any significant chip against cable due to the fact if you have one frame (sarcastic for idiots) of recovery on anything you run the risk of getting beamed to fuggin death. storm is a little bit easier than cable but more or less still a hard battle...you'll probably hit her with something random like sj.lk and you have to make it count...maybe a s.rh if she doesn't have drones coming soon or blast u with aaa...for all these reasons i think 5th is still ok for him =) but i wuv him =_=

[J360]

all I'm saying is that Strider can beat iron man without Doom. All he needs is Zoo game and probably drones and iron man cannot get in on him at all. If he does get dangerously close, just activate orbs to be safe, build meter, repeat process, GGPO.
Whenever you talk about marvel you have to include assists because this is a team based game. So Strider has better matchups than ironman does.

There is no way Iron man is better than Cable. Cable is easier to pick up, less work needed to win, and has a higher win ratio than Iron man does. Cable is a very good character, people just sleep on him the most because they like the other three better.

i think this... IM is better than strider BUT strider rapes IM with doom or drones. his matchups and defense are worse with out those tho.

and as for the cable thing, cable is easier to pick up but overall a top level iron man can fight a top level cable depending on team matchup, if its solo than its free for iron man. cable has a harder time against mag and storm than IM because cable without meter is a horrible character with wack chip and damage.

The reason he has a higher win percentage is because there are only a handful of good IM players out there, and theres like 89034812039128 cable players and like 10 really good known IM players.

now this is just my opinions based on my experience, i am in no way attacking anyones opinions just sharing my own so if anyone wants to share something i dont know about IM's matchups with me feel free to do so.

[SNAKESHOTPEOPLE]

Exactly my point though. A god character is one that can be picked up easily and show results. A hand full of IM player only means he isn't worth it to some people. Either way, IM may look better on paper, but in a real situation, Cable holds his crown. NOW GET MAD BECAUSE I'M DISRESPECTION YOUR LOW TIER! :wgrin:

EDIT: I believe Strider is better because he has better match ups than Ironman and doesn't get countered as hard.

[Remix1213]

Exactly my point though. A god character is one that can be picked up easily and show results. A hand full of IM player only means he isn't worth it to some people. Either way, IM may look better on paper, but in a real situation, Cable holds his crown. NOW GET MAD BECAUSE I'M DISRESPECTION YOUR LOW TIER! :wgrin:

EDIT: I believe Strider is better because he has better match ups than Ironman and doesn't get countered as hard.

What makes a god character godly is the options he has not how fast he is to pick up and learn.

Cable sucks cause he needs meter to pose a threat, he cant get in the match safe, he has no ad/dj or tj and needs assists to win. I wouldnt say IM isnt worth using, more like people are lazy and rather have a scrubbier character... Your team is a perfect example of what im talking about, there are less S/D players then there are IM players, does that mean S/D isnt worth learning no. It just means people are to lazy to dedicate their time to it... Only real use imo for cable is to fight sent.

[J360]

What makes a god character godly is the options he has not how fast he is to pick up and learn.

Cable sucks cause he needs meter to pose a threat, he cant get in the match safe, he has no ad/dj or tj and needs assists to win. I wouldnt say IM isnt worth using, more like people are lazy and rather have a scrubbier character... Your team is a perfect example of what im talking about, there are less S/D players then there are IM players, does that mean S/D isnt worth learning no. It just means people are to lazy to dedicate their time to it... Only real use imo for cable is to fight sent.

good point. thank you for continuing where i left off on the god character thing, just because cable is easier to use doesnt make him a better character, it just means that people with bad execution and little knowledge of the game can use him. just because IM is harder to learn doesnt make him any less of a character just look at strider, i respect his low tier ass cause he takes alot of skill to not get killed in 2 seconds but just because people cant easily avoid with him doesnt mean hes any worse of a character.

[Augmint]

capcom has been placed on high ranks more times than that of spiral, strider, clops, and doom? Is he considered top 5? No. IM has shown enough because he has enough to keep him in the argument of being top5.


IM/Doom can do good against Sentinel/Commando.

No one has even remotely mentioned commando or placed him on high ranks. Where did you pull that out of? ..wait... gamefaqs

You post on gamefaqs how top tier *assists* are top tier - cos they are used in tournament teams. You made a great post how you thought Ken's expansion is the 3rd best assist in the game IIRC.

IM hasn't shown enough to *clearly* put him ahead of strider or spiral.

IM/Doom gets wrecked by sent/commando - look to the matches of Julias Jackson - IM/ CABLE/Doom is another story....and like the crumby posters on gamefaqs whines about - cable does the work.

[SNAKESHOTPEOPLE]

J360 and Remix, you guys make good points. But what I'm saying is that it's easier to beat the average character with Cable than it is with Ironman. An Average Cable will do better against a solid team than an average iron man would. Now when you're talking about advanced and Yipes Ironman, that's a different Story. But Majority does win and in the majority of the time, the avaerage Cable will have better results than the average ironman.

[merdoc]

Listen, Remix, J360, you guys need to know your roles and come get shot

[Mixup]

Strider > Spiral > Cyclops > Doom > Iron Man

that is all

cyc>spiral>ironman>doom>strider

i gotta completely disagree only because team chemistry.

I feel like a loaded strider with drones and doom deserves that spot, but not under the more common hand that he's dealt. typically sent is going to open up and basically scrap for his life and hope for the best. that is a shitty option tree for a character thats opening on a top tier team. that alone puts him below spiral who functions almost ideally with cable and drones.

cyc is a better character from the ground up vs anyone on that list.

debate?

edit: i swapped doom and im placement

I'm not god like with any of those chars, but i know enough about ironmans instant overhead rushdown, his priority and his dhc's to realize that he's good..

but he can't stick to me and his range game isn't threatening. no assist punish

we went through this topic pretty in depth a while back if i'm remembering correctly....

[Mixup]

This topic is also kinda fucked up because of the way a team is built.

strider is a meter hog on a team that doesn't truly help each other out(sent/doom sucks man), strider is alright on his own, nothing scary, he needs helpers

spiral is completely functional and fills the role of meter builder almost perfectly w cable/sent, her assist is alright for the team. she needs helpers too

ironman is good on certain teams, esp with good aaa and chipping/lockdown assist, decent helper too, but like re-mix said he needs helpers.

doom teams are pretty shitty, but the role that he can play mid-game or end-game can be pretty good, his guardcancelXXphoton in your grill is nasty. his runaway is useful, his dhcs are too good and so on

...but he doesn't have teams built for him.

that takes me to my main point,

how can we argue that xx is better than xx when you don't give a char their best helper

example

cyc/dones with no aaa vs strider w his ideal assists

the match-ups change everytime you modify somones helper and you get nowhere in the discussion.

I like looking at how good somone is overall as a character and on a team.

cyc imo is 5th best for his point game and his contributions to a team.

I'm not sure how to approach the topic really.

[gouki10]

^ good point

over all it's not worth trying to say a character is better than another because 2 characters can have completely different games.

Ironman's style is not the same as Striders

so comparing them is like comparing apples and oranges, it just isn't working out.

as far as who the 5th best is in the game, it's a hard choice. All of the upper mids, Cyc, Doom, Spiral, Stider, IM, Bh?, are all characters that have different game plans than others.

Imo it's hard to say which character is better than another because marvel is a team based game, you can't talk about how good 1 character is, Marvel is not XVSF. you have to throw in the characters over all best assists and compare the match ups

Imo Marvel is too team based that tiers will get wrecked if you tired to base them only on 1 character instead of the teams, the God characters are easier to understand, but the Upper mids get tough to debate on.Probabley cause we don't use them as much....(im a Tier whore).

[SNAKESHOTPEOPLE]

I always see it like that. Which is why I hate when people talk about solo characters. It sucks like that. Except when you're talking about Sentinel, he doesn't need assists :sweat: You have to think in team dynamics. Just like mix up said, Strider/Doom is one of the best duos, but Sentinel/Doom is one of the worst duos. Although I don't think Sentinel/Doom is that bad, you just have to use it a bit differently (Normal Jump Sentinel). It's the only way you can go about judging certain characters.

[Jake]

Most everyone always looks at IM's strengths and never really focuses on his weaknesses.

His main weakness is the lack of a safe super to me. He is a terrible assist punisher and assist protection/punishing is a very high priority in marvel. Storm wins games off of hail protects/baits all the time. IM can't play that game. Someone spams their assist on IM and he really can't do much to punish their spammery. He can't protect a bad assist call with major damage really, just throw smart bombs and hope for the best. Anyone with cap will counter call his assist and not even give 2 shits about what's gonna happen to his cap. This all dwindles down to proton cannon. Since his super sucks and is not safe, he can't use it to punish/protect, plus it means you can't bring him in safely or get him out safely in the air cause it's ground only.

The fact that IM struggles against such a simple strat as fly up back and call commando or lk/pan anytime IM comes close enough should be a big sign that this guy has issues.

Mag sort of has the same issues but more than makes up for it with the best ground dashes in the game (wolv/cammy backdashes not as good) and his airdashing of course. Also has the dreaded double snap, snap off pretty much any hit to ruin chemistry, and some tricks with tempest and other junk to punish assists.

The only viable team with IM I see and I believe tourney results would agree with me is combofiend. The team plays to IMs strengths, Mag has all of his gimmicks and does all the dirty work. No better char really to take advantage of the proton cannon DHC than magnus. Pick and choose the times you want to use IM AAA, and leave a character dead with IM on point to GB the next when he didn't get the hit himself. Also the proton cannon to HSF DHC is godlike and it's there.

Anyway to me IM is too flawed to be considered god tier, but he's still really good at what he does so he's top.

[shoultzula]

I see alot of opinions but is there any criteria to base what makes a top tier? if character potential regardless of difficulty is a factor, strider would be easily better than IM for the simple fact that its impossible to play 100% strider. He's not one hit kill so his gameplan\tricks are always going to constantly evolve and add to his gameplay. He'll always get better as a character as long as the game is around or till someone figures out everything that the little ninja has.

[randomsuper]

good point.

[Remix1213]

Most everyone always looks at IM's strengths and never really focuses on his weaknesses.

His main weakness is the lack of a safe super to me. He is a terrible assist punisher and assist protection/punishing is a very high priority in marvel. Storm wins games off of hail protects/baits all the time. IM can't play that game. Someone spams their assist on IM and he really can't do much to punish their spammery. He can't protect a bad assist call with major damage really, just throw smart bombs and hope for the best. Anyone with cap will counter call his assist and not even give 2 shits about what's gonna happen to his cap. This all dwindles down to proton cannon. Since his super sucks and is not safe, he can't use it to punish/protect, plus it means you can't bring him in safely or get him out safely in the air cause it's ground only.

The fact that IM struggles against such a simple strat as fly up back and call commando or lk/pan anytime IM comes close enough should be a big sign that this guy has issues.

Mag sort of has the same issues but more than makes up for it with the best ground dashes in the game (wolv/cammy backdashes not as good) and his airdashing of course. Also has the dreaded double snap, snap off pretty much any hit to ruin chemistry, and some tricks with tempest and other junk to punish assists.

The only viable team with IM I see and I believe tourney results would agree with me is combofiend. The team plays to IMs strengths, Mag has all of his gimmicks and does all the dirty work. No better char really to take advantage of the proton cannon DHC than magnus. Pick and choose the times you want to use IM AAA, and leave a character dead with IM on point to GB the next when he didn't get the hit himself. Also the proton cannon to HSF DHC is godlike and it's there.

Anyway to me IM is too flawed to be considered god tier, but he's still really good at what he does so he's top.

Well since this is a team game assists can make up for character weaknesses and make characters better. Which is why i say IM is top 4, as far as him losing to fly up back + cap what character doesnt have trouble against that? Thats Top 3 best duos in the game if not the best... Since he has assist he can fight that, I think that IM with Cap or Cyke would cause Sent lots of problems. A good overall IM team would be IM/Sent/Cap but noone uses that so noone will know how good it is...:shake:

[box]

I actually like using Iron Man as the battery for Strider/Doom.

Doom assist helps set up Iron Man infinite. Iron Man infinite builds up tons of meter. Strider comes in with full meter and does the trap.

I know it isn't the best Strider/doom team, but it's still pretty decent. Especially if you can get your Iron Man/Doom to be as good as Illan's.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=illan+mvc2


But back on topic... I still think there are only 4 members in the god tier.

[Mixup]

Well since this is a team game assists can make up for character weaknesses and make characters better. Which is why i say IM is top 4, as far as him losing to fly up back + cap what character doesnt have trouble against that? Thats Top 3 best duos in the game if not the best... Since he has assist he can fight that, I think that IM with Cap or Cyke would cause Sent lots of problems. A good overall IM team would be IM/Sent/Cap but noone uses that so noone will know how good it is...:shake:

does it make him better or worse than cyclops considering he's forced to use his helper to get into advantageous posistions?

is he better than cyc because he has better offense when he uses his helper properly? We're also talkin about how he is forced to cover his assist. Cyc does this easily while ironman has 0 dmg options from far range.

cyc still gets basic shit no matter what the situation is. ironman can't hurt the helpers so his gameplan is completely limited in some ways when you're comparing characters.

standalone characters that can still fight vs duo's and entire teams

sent
storm
magneto
cyclops
cammy

I think that might be a decent side of the actual issue to discuss.

ps. anyone who said wtf at the cammy comment, go fight wongs cammy. i don't care if she's first on the team or the last. she's too good at the basics to stop her even when she's on her own.

edit: i gotta give some credit to ironguy, in close, if he has doom and gets a launch+doom on somones helper, he can really go to town and still set-up a counter hit. thats all he's got .

[Remix1213]

Snip

Well as long as you stay in the air the most cyke can do is out-prioritize you with fierces and roundhouses as opposed to IM out-prioritizing you and doing his air to ground infinite. As far as assist punishment goes like i said i think IM/sent/cap is a solid team. Since you can punish with it, something as simple as call cap, cap knocks them in the air then sj jab, fierce, unfly fierce hurts. I dont play IM like that and i can come up wit simple, hurtful shit. Just gotta use your imagination...:wink:

Edit: Merdoc i will whoop that ass nukka, come see me... lol

Edit: Just realized Mixup i heard you were suppose to come to FR, what happen dog? I wanted to get some games in wit you..

[Mixup]

work is a bitch

[True Grave]

5th being IronMan.

Ya, i know... allot will say he's too slow, but lets not deny the fact that he can kill your entire team just lik the gods, infact storm can't do that w/o a DHC such as sentinel.

I expect that many will say no because he is too slow and he can't force mistakes,
Most people say that all you have to do is not go forward and just play on the defenisive.. i really don't think you can just do that, especially if IM has doom or drones because you will be pinned by smartbombs and rocks.
IM has allot of things anyway that makes up for his speed, such as his reach and zoning with smart bombs. Smartbombs+Rocks or drones are excellent in helping him get to the opponent, and it will forc the opponent to start going at him in close combat since blocking (just to prevent yourself from getting hit into the infinite) isn't going to do the opponent any good (due to doom).

I really think people need to admit that IM is that dangerous and does dserve to placed in the top 5 bracket. He gives so much to a team, an excellent assist, an excellent DHC, and he (as everyone knows) can kill your whole team. He kills the first character, GB the next one coming out...

It's not easy to escape IM's GB, its harder compared to cables. All you have to counter cable's GB is to take the hit of the J.hp... i'm not trying to say that IM is btter than cable now; it's just an example of how powerful IM is.

thanks for the replies. :)

Hell no, is there is a 5th god, that position falls on Dr.Doom for sure.

Dr.Doom can do all the sleazy tactics as storm, the running away, flying and building meter, double-jump and attacking from above, great assists, etc.

Dr.Doom IS numba 5. Iron Man is a good Top but thats all.

[randomsuper]

im does better than doom against every god in the game. that alone puts him over doom.

[True Grave]

im does better than doom against every god in the game. that alone puts him over doom.

Those doom players must have sucked then. Im has nothing on doom.

[Jake]

....yeahhh..... Doom is freakin awesome dude...

[shoultzula]

Those doom players must have sucked then. Im has nothing on doom.

and again, marvel is a team based game. 1v1 scenarios is hardly playing marvel since 99% of the time someone is going to have an assist. Its always going to boil down to team function and what a character can do to be effective.

[True Grave]

and again, marvel is a team based game. 1v1 scenarios is hardly playing marvel since 99% of the time someone is going to have an assist. Its always going to boil down to team function and what a character can do to be effective.

Not just one on one. Doom has the better assist(AA), has a better launcher, and he can rain down death from above on other characters a lot better than IM can.

IM only has the smart bombs when attacking characters down below, Doom has the lasers and super lasers which are far more effective.

Doom is like the male equivalent of storm. Nice rush-down ability, good runaway, Good air combos, assists, can punish well, and projectiles.

[gouki10]

Doom lacks damage, he can run do all the stuff you mentioned, but it's hard to a play a character that good, for so long, for so little damage compared to the others.

there is no fifth God

there are 4 Gods, and a bunch of other characters with potential.

[Insomniac487]

i voted

4 gods only; he is just top 5 of the top tier


i always took ironman seriously but the gods are in a leauge of their own. they are just more grand. i cant explain it but its like they have more weapons. but the difference of the god teir and the 2nd tier is small.

i really think we should re organize the tiers so its like

sent storm mag cable

ironman cyclops doom spiral

dhalsim strider blackheart war machine

basically each tier should just have 4 ppl.

and i think more ppl should experiment with dhalsim. he is fast like magneto, he has a standing infinite, he can handle sent. everyone with a trijump is good. a whole new levels of gameplay open up for ppl who can tri jump, unfly, infinite, etc.


I agree. I see him as REALLY good. definitely top tier.. dunno about god-tier though. he's Damn close, and I think everybody can agree on that. If he had a faster dash, or moved a bit faster.. that would make him so much better.

your right about dhalsim too. after watching magnetro's HUGE dhalsim tutorial guide (DVD), it has inspired me. He truely is a underrated character.

- he has more resets then storm.. possibily even magneto!
- he has the MOST unfly options and combos. more then ironman and sentinel!
- TONS of air-to-ground combos.. both midscreen and in the corner
- has a semi infinite
- is the Best run away character (better then storm) (he can actually stay up there Forever, literally).
- has a FAST air dash, and ground dash (although a bit short)
- has a 8 way air dash

yup. sorry i got off topic. i know this thread is suppose to be about ironman, heh.

[Illan]

Wow, Didnt realize there is so much Ironman talk! If any of you play ironman and are going to evo vegas, try to find if me if you can because I am intrested in playing agsinst different IM styles.

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=128148 <-- You will find a few Ironman match videos here. (one of my better match videos on there)

[Dr. Deelite]

Not just one on one. Doom has the better assist(AA), has a better launcher, and he can rain down death from above on other characters a lot better than IM can.

IM only has the smart bombs when attacking characters down below, Doom has the lasers and super lasers which are far more effective.

Doom is like the male equivalent of storm. Nice rush-down ability, good runaway, Good air combos, assists, can punish well, and projectiles.

This is 2007 dude, you are talking about 2001.

You can't really talk about putting Doom or IM in top 4 when they only decent match either of them have is v. Cable. And people are downplaying Cable a lot but you can't sleep on someone who can function as a ghetto AA while giving you full screen death options no matter who your point is. Cyke matches up better vs. top 4 than either of them, Strider too.

[rYo_sakaZaki]

a lot of guys in our place use IM because of his inf... that's about it...

[StiltMan]

Iron Man? Better than Cable? People, if you're done with the glue, put the cap on, because the fumes will make you say some really stupid things.

Go to the northwest with your Iron Man and get owned by Cables there. Cable is capable of beating absolutely any character in the game. Meter helps, but ultimately he fills his own meter if he needs to if you're good enough with him. And Cable with meter ultimately says to any team that you need to be really, really careful about how you call your assists or you're going to lose them. The counter-AHVB still ruins entire teams. Cable being on a team simply changes the entire way you have to play a game against it.

What does Iron Man change? That you have to jump back a lot? Oh noes.

Iron Man belongs behind BH, because BH is simply the most unrushable character in the game. BH can do his damage from a lot more places on the screen and ultimately only has very bad matchups with characters that can out-turtle him. Plus Sentinel with BH behind him is going to tear Iron Man up something awful.

He belongs behind Spiral, because Spiral ultimately is simply far more mobile, is one of the best first characters in the game for filling the meter for whoever's behind her, and the best ways to fight her put you in horrible risk of getting counter-shot by Cable.

He belongs behind Doom for much the same reasons he belongs behind Storm. Doom can control more space than Storm when already on point, he can hang at the top of the screen longer, and since you can't roll out of a photon array like you can out of a lightning storm, he's actually got more DHCs to hurt people with than Storm does, and a few more that can cover other characters switching in (e.g. photon array into time flip is a perfectly safe switch for Cable). His main problem is, he's as slow as IM is in hand to hand. I'm not sure why that makes IM better than him. Doom/Sentinel/Cyclops in the hands of a good Doom is probably going to beat basically any team that starts IM, for most of the same reasons Storm/Sentinel/Cyclops will.

He probably belongs behind Strider, for many of the same reasons as Spiral as far as mobility and control, except that Strider isn't as able to control the air as Spiral is without burning meter, and ultimately wants to keep you confined to the ground or he can't do much to you. That and the fact that he has basically no really good assists and he forces a team to have Doom as its third character is the main chemistry breaker for Strider, and the team chemistry is really the main weakness of the character. A good Strider is still going to tear up Iron Man, though, and Team Clockwork is probably going to beat any team with Iron Man on it.

I'm not ready to say he belongs behind Cyclops, though. Cyclops is really good and can hold his own with Iron Man but most of the argument behind why Cyclops would be better than Iron Man is ultimately theory fighter.

[white shadow]

I love how people are saying IM has more options than Cable when Cable's one main option (the AHVB) practically overrides whatever "options" IM has in comparison with one simple TK motion. The damage AHVB can yield with a simple misplaced jab pales in comparison in what IM needs to do perfectly to get a leg up in a match with AAAs and Drones being spammed all over the place.

You have to be on your A-game every match to pull the same wins that the average Cable can do with just a little meter building and space control.

[50mOrEcEnTz]

Iron Man? Better than Cable? People, if you're done with the glue, put the cap on, because the fumes will make you say some really stupid things.

Go to the northwest with your Iron Man and get owned by Cables there. Cable is capable of beating absolutely any character in the game. Meter helps, but ultimately he fills his own meter if he needs to if you're good enough with him. And Cable with meter ultimately says to any team that you need to be really, really careful about how you call your assists or you're going to lose them. The counter-AHVB still ruins entire teams. Cable being on a team simply changes the entire way you have to play a game against it.

What does Iron Man change? That you have to jump back a lot? Oh noes.

Iron Man belongs behind BH, because BH is simply the most unrushable character in the game. BH can do his damage from a lot more places on the screen and ultimately only has very bad matchups with characters that can out-turtle him. Plus Sentinel with BH behind him is going to tear Iron Man up something awful.

He belongs behind Spiral, because Spiral ultimately is simply far more mobile, is one of the best first characters in the game for filling the meter for whoever's behind her, and the best ways to fight her put you in horrible risk of getting counter-shot by Cable.

He belongs behind Doom for much the same reasons he belongs behind Storm. Doom can control more space than Storm when already on point, he can hang at the top of the screen longer, and since you can't roll out of a photon array like you can out of a lightning storm, he's actually got more DHCs to hurt people with than Storm does, and a few more that can cover other characters switching in (e.g. photon array into time flip is a perfectly safe switch for Cable). His main problem is, he's as slow as IM is in hand to hand. I'm not sure why that makes IM better than him. Doom/Sentinel/Cyclops in the hands of a good Doom is probably going to beat basically any team that starts IM, for most of the same reasons Storm/Sentinel/Cyclops will.

He probably belongs behind Strider, for many of the same reasons as Spiral as far as mobility and control, except that Strider isn't as able to control the air as Spiral is without burning meter, and ultimately wants to keep you confined to the ground or he can't do much to you. That and the fact that he has basically no really good assists and he forces a team to have Doom as its third character is the main chemistry breaker for Strider, and the team chemistry is really the main weakness of the character. A good Strider is still going to tear up Iron Man, though, and Team Clockwork is probably going to beat any team with Iron Man on it.

I'm not ready to say he belongs behind Cyclops, though. Cyclops is really good and can hold his own with Iron Man but most of the argument behind why Cyclops would be better than Iron Man is ultimately theory fighter.
bh and cable counter im...we know this, but all that about doom....come on...you can not be serious.

the point is IM isn't in the God tier...point blank period...but people must realize the fact that he has something and do something nobody else can realli do, and that is straight murk an entire team off of a hit basically, without dhc'ing until the end. no1 is saying that makes him 5th by himself. i have to believe there is no fifth best character...after you get past the obvious four, many characters are playable...including blackheart =) but that doesn't make blackheart fifth at all, or strider/doom. because everybody you could place as #5 can be countered like hell. that is probably why people are straight on playing with #5 people. bh has hard time against magnus and storm's hail right? strider/doom has problems with xxx/cyke. im can be countered with a blackheart/cable/xxx team. etc...btw, i dunno why i quoted you. i guess cuz u talked about the two chara's that counter IM =) nothing personal =)

[KillerKai]

So we've established a couple things:
1. IM loses to anyone who plays gay
2. IM still has the ability to murder an entire team. And that's probably his main redeeming quality along with his DHC ability.

I've pretty much seen it all with IM. I've seen Julius, Combo, Illan, and Phat all pull off crazy comebacks with Iron Man. True. It happens. But how often do you see these comebacks happen compared to the number of times decent IM players have lost matches because their opponent took full advantage of the weaknesses that IM provides?

another note, I've played around with Strider/IM/Doom. It's pretty fun as strider has some stuff he can do with IM AA. Tagging into IM after connecting orbs and going into an infinite is also pretty dope. I'd use that team more if I didn't have that "Strider player syndrome" which keeps me from effectively learning other characters that take time and execution to learn (Magneto, IM, etc)

[StriderX]

Actually, you're all wrong. Sim is the 5th God.

[Mixup]

bh is nowhere near unrushable, and i've never seen a decent ironman from the northwest. I don't think you have much worthwhile out there to base your opinion on.

sim is crappy only because of his ground to air priority, he has nothing but a bad special to help him out...

[#reload]

if BH is the "most unrushable character in the game," why is magneto still dominating the marvel scene... you have to be joking

anyways, i'm starting to think that the top tiers are all different depending on the player (shit, stilt even thinks BH is that high)..

until these top tiers consitantly win tournies, then the tiers can be set in stone like the gods

but imma have to agree with someone (i forget who) who said that there was the top 4 and then just a bunch of characters with potential. each of them has something they're good at, and each of them have a glaring weakness

[StriderX]

if BH is the "most unrushable character in the game," why is magneto still dominating the marvel scene... you have to be joking

anyways, i'm starting to think that the top tiers are all different depending on the player (shit, stilt even thinks BH is that high)..

until these top tiers consitantly win tournies, then the tiers can be set in stone like the gods

but imma have to agree with someone (i forget who) who said that there was the top 4 and then just a bunch of characters with potential. each of them has something they're good at, and each of them have a glaring weakness

I'm going to be a nit-picky bastard and say that they don't all necessarily have a glaring weakness; some, like Cyke, simply suffer from not being overly dominant at any one thing. I suppose you could call that in itself a glaring weakness, but really what they all suffer from is a collection of related troubles that magnify each other. The Big 4 (with the exception of Storm) have their problems too, but usually they aren't problems that affect how the character is played.

[gouki10]

^ yeah Cyke's weakness is that he is too balanced, and has nothing to really make him shine besides his versatilaty, his infinite is his best damage producing combo, but getting it agianst the big four is a mission, and then actually doing it is also a mission.

[shoultzula]

i've always thought that cyke should be god tier.

- great supers
- his shoryuken is just nasty especially behind the right assist
- easy big life combos
- infinite
- beefy priority
- can runaway
- dhc friendly meaning his supers allow for other supers to connect into each other
- build bar
- can punish assists
- double jump for a little mobility.
- his AA assist is just rediculous, 3\4 screen invincible poke with combo potential is just stupid.
- and he can fight any character thats on the screen.


cyke may not have one thing that he can exploit but god damn does he have everything else.

[True Grave]

i've always thought that cyke should be god tier.

- great supers
- his shoryuken is just nasty especially behind the right assist
- easy big life combos
- infinite
- beefy priority
- can runaway
- dhc friendly meaning his supers allow for other supers to connect into each other
- build bar
- can punish assists
- double jump for a little mobility.
- his AA assist is just rediculous, 3\4 screen invincible poke with combo potential is just stupid.
- and he can fight any character thats on the screen.


cyke may not have one thing that he can exploit but god damn does he have everything else.

Cyke is great but I'd put him at top, close to or under Iron Man, but not God-tier.

[Mixup]

cyc's strength is that he has many of the god 4s basic abilities

[beatsofdevil]

omg...doom is SOOO not that good. IM beats his ass.

he shouldn't be in the god-tier, but should be RIGHT AFTER. tied with cyc/spiral/strider also

[gouki10]

After thinking about it, Cyke is the 5th best

why?

first why is storm the best of the Gods? Because she has alittle bit of everything that Sentinel/Mag/Cable have. She is very versitly.

-infinites(tri jump infinite, and standing sentinel infinite, and many more that aren't partical....well maybe but very tough)
-Priorty - fierces both on the ground( s.hk) and air (j.hp)
-Dhc's - hail storm is safe
-runaway/meter build - Ha ha ha ha
-amazing supers-Hail storm covers everything, Lighting storm is dhc friendly
-mobility - 8 way airdash, float, flight mode, lighting attack?



Same goes with Cyke, he does not have one particular thing that makes him a monster, but he has something from everything. agian versatility, i think that.

look at everything shout posted.

i believe in my conclusion to this topic, Just like how Storm is top of the Gods because of versility, Cyke should be top of top tiers because of versitility, so no there is no 5th God.

[shoultzula]

when deciding which is the better character, you have to look @ what makes a character good on point and team function. Strider for instance is a great and @ times can be a god like character but his team function sucks ass so he's not thought of really highly. Only the people who've been rolled by strider really know what its like to be trapped to death and you just can't do shit but try again the next game.

[StiltMan]

Okay, here's what I'm saying regards to all these chars in the end.

BH is not unrushable, but if you put the kinds of teams around him that people put around Storm he can do a lot of the same things that Storm does defensively, only at lower risk to himself and with a lot better of a clear-out of the low ground that Storm uses to defend herself from rushdown together with drones and Commando. Jumping fierce demons, once you can throw them cleanly, will protect you for a half hour, and if you protect that position stubbornly enough BH can protect himself from Magneto just fine. With Sentinel and Commando he's also got DHCs that hurt almost as much as Storm/Sentinel does (read: for practical purposes, you'll kill Magnus if you land one), so he can punish Magneto mistakes just as viciously.

Magneto ultimately is still a powerful rusher because once he gets going on a tear and gets a hit and position he creates a rather horrifying slippery slope for his opponents. He has almost blinding speed, he can combo any poke just about anywhere on the lower half of the screen into either infinites or snapbacks, and he's the only character in the game with both a long range snapback that can hit multiple characters and a practical ability to chase down the assist character and launch them to death. Even so, if you can take the near-ground position away from Magneto on a consistent basis and force him to go over the top, then many, many characters can make him look very bad. That list can include Storm/Sentinel, BH/Sentinel, Sentinel in general, Spiral, Cable, Strider, MegaMan, and even BBHood/Juggernaut combinations. At some point, yes, Magneto is better than the pixies in the game, but if you can stop him from landing a hit, just about ANYBODY can beat him.

Iron Man doesn't have many of these strengths and he's got all these weaknesses a lot worse. He's slower. The smart bombs help a little bit in keeping characters from feeling too comfortable in the near-ground position that's necessary for rushing, but at some point he still has to land a hit and he doesn't have a whole lot of chipping power to make up for it.

I mean, set aside the love for the infinite and let's really compare Iron Man to something like Doom/Sentinel/Cyclops. Doom has a triangle jump that's not particularly faster or slower than Iron Man's. His photon charges are better than Iron Man's smart bombs for controlling space. He's got longer ranged pokes on the ground and the air. He's got the jumping fierce for cutting off the near ground position (although Magneto can get under it fairly easily if he's not careful). By throwing yellow beams up in the scoreboards he can basically stay out of reach of anybody who can't fly, airdash up, or have Commando or BH assists for ridiculous periods of time. And if you've got the reflexes, any poke in the air or the ground can be combo'ed into a photon array that will DHC into somebody probably getting killed, just like Storm with combos into lightning attack/lightning storm. Storm has a few things that Doom lacks in this category... but, really, Iron Man doesn't.

In fact, if you really think about it good and hard, IM/Sent/Clops isn't a revoltingly bad team by IM standards either. However, even the most hard-bitten IM fan can't really give a rational argument that that team is going to be dramatically better than it would be if you took IM off of it and replaced him with Doom. They're both teams that are going to have their strengths and might even be decent against a purely rush oriented team because they can defend themselves reasonably well and getting hit by the first character on either of them gets your first character killed and puts Sentinel on point with a lead. However, they're both still fundamentally flawed teams because they're going to get horribly out-turtled by Team Scrub and their first characters are slow enough that they're still probably going to lose most rush fights to Magneto-based teams if they can't put down an ironclad lockout, and they'll probably also get out-turtled, out-rushed, out-everythinged by Storm/Sentinel teams.

It is not to be missed that the best Iron Man team is Mag/IM/Sentinel, where IM either never actually takes point and serves almost entirely as a DHC waypoint between IM and Sentinel, or he takes point for giggles when Magneto's already done the hard part of his work for him, either by having already destroyed most of the opposing team or by killing someone with a DHC into IM leaving IM with a relatively easy job of guard breaking the next character where he's under no great pressure to do so because his team's already ahead anyway -- either way, preventing Iron Man from having to chase down an opposing team by himself to win or lose a match, which he's simply very bad at doing when the chips are down.

[KillerKai]

Cyke has too few good matchups to be considered among the top 4. Even when you put him on the best team that is built for him (Cyke/Sent/Commando), Cable and a gay Sentinel will beat him pretty clean. He does well against Magneto and decent against storm unless she has sent with her. Bottom line, he has too many "okay" matchups and not enough very good ones. Maybe if Cable didn't exist, but Cable does exist. So I still can't really put him up there.

[StriderX]

Cyke has too few good matchups to be considered among the top 4. Even when you put him on the best team that is built for him (Cyke/Sent/Commando), Cable and a gay Sentinel will beat him pretty clean. He does well against Magneto and decent against storm unless she has sent with her. Bottom line, he has too many "okay" matchups and not enough very good ones. Maybe if Cable didn't exist, but Cable does exist. So I still can't really put him up there.

Sure, Cable will beat him cleanly, but Cable beats 98% of the cast cleanly, so it's not surprising. However, I do believe Cyke can at least pull even with Sent, 5/5, if he can't beat him outright. I agree that he can have struggles, but I do think he has the tools to at least play against Sent.

[gouki10]

^ yes, cyke fights the same way vs sentinel does that cable does, keep away & evading.

[J360]

Okay, here's what I'm saying regards to all these chars in the end.

BH is not unrushable, but if you put the kinds of teams around him that people put around Storm he can do a lot of the same things that Storm does defensively, only at lower risk to himself and with a lot better of a clear-out of the low ground that Storm uses to defend herself from rushdown together with drones and Commando. Jumping fierce demons, once you can throw them cleanly, will protect you for a half hour, and if you protect that position stubbornly enough BH can protect himself from Magneto just fine. With Sentinel and Commando he's also got DHCs that hurt almost as much as Storm/Sentinel does (read: for practical purposes, you'll kill Magnus if you land one), so he can punish Magneto mistakes just as viciously.

Magneto ultimately is still a powerful rusher because once he gets going on a tear and gets a hit and position he creates a rather horrifying slippery slope for his opponents. He has almost blinding speed, he can combo any poke just about anywhere on the lower half of the screen into either infinites or snapbacks, and he's the only character in the game with both a long range snapback that can hit multiple characters and a practical ability to chase down the assist character and launch them to death. Even so, if you can take the near-ground position away from Magneto on a consistent basis and force him to go over the top, then many, many characters can make him look very bad. That list can include Storm/Sentinel, BH/Sentinel, Sentinel in general, Spiral, Cable, Strider, MegaMan, and even BBHood/Juggernaut combinations. At some point, yes, Magneto is better than the pixies in the game, but if you can stop him from landing a hit, just about ANYBODY can beat him.

Iron Man doesn't have many of these strengths and he's got all these weaknesses a lot worse. He's slower. The smart bombs help a little bit in keeping characters from feeling too comfortable in the near-ground position that's necessary for rushing, but at some point he still has to land a hit and he doesn't have a whole lot of chipping power to make up for it.

I mean, set aside the love for the infinite and let's really compare Iron Man to something like Doom/Sentinel/Cyclops. Doom has a triangle jump that's not particularly faster or slower than Iron Man's. His photon charges are better than Iron Man's smart bombs for controlling space. He's got longer ranged pokes on the ground and the air. He's got the jumping fierce for cutting off the near ground position (although Magneto can get under it fairly easily if he's not careful). By throwing yellow beams up in the scoreboards he can basically stay out of reach of anybody who can't fly, airdash up, or have Commando or BH assists for ridiculous periods of time. And if you've got the reflexes, any poke in the air or the ground can be combo'ed into a photon array that will DHC into somebody probably getting killed, just like Storm with combos into lightning attack/lightning storm. Storm has a few things that Doom lacks in this category... but, really, Iron Man doesn't.

In fact, if you really think about it good and hard, IM/Sent/Clops isn't a revoltingly bad team by IM standards either. However, even the most hard-bitten IM fan can't really give a rational argument that that team is going to be dramatically better than it would be if you took IM off of it and replaced him with Doom. They're both teams that are going to have their strengths and might even be decent against a purely rush oriented team because they can defend themselves reasonably well and getting hit by the first character on either of them gets your first character killed and puts Sentinel on point with a lead. However, they're both still fundamentally flawed teams because they're going to get horribly out-turtled by Team Scrub and their first characters are slow enough that they're still probably going to lose most rush fights to Magneto-based teams if they can't put down an ironclad lockout, and they'll probably also get out-turtled, out-rushed, out-everythinged by Storm/Sentinel teams.



i see what your saying but give IM a little bit more respect than that. after all the shit ive been through with the character i can assure you a hit always shows up and even though when IM is alone his options decrease he still has that miracle touch that can still happen. A smart IM who has diversity in teams hes on and knows his matches and what hes capable of can prevent himself from getting hit and stall time to get his hit. IM is an extremely defensive character close range and his limbs are hard to beat out. so the scariest thing is when an iron man gets in close on you and picks you apart with light kicks and your assist get beaten out, and your afraid to swing cause he will most likely beat you out.

[Cisco]

After thinking about it, Cyke is the 5th best
Just like how Storm is top of the Gods because of versility, Cyke should be top of top tiers because of versitility, so no there is no 5th God.


Umm... i think most people think that Sentinel is top of the gods, but i do think that storm backed up with sentinel [y] is the best character in marvel.

[StriderX]

Umm... i think most people think that Sentinel is top of the gods, but i do think that storm backed up with sentinel [y] is the best character in marvel.

I was under the impression that most people believed the order to be Storm/Sent, rather than the other way around. I myself believe it goes Sent/Storm/Cable/Magneto, though I don't think that the order is really all that important. I would put it as;

Big Four: Storm, Sent, Cable, Magneto

Top Tier: Dhalsim, IM, Doom, Cyke, Strider, Spiral

Those are not in any particular order, so don't freak out about it.

[KillerKai]

Keep in mind, I said a "GAY" Sentinel. Cyke vs. Sent is a lot better than vs. Cable. But try fighting a sent who knows how to spam his range on normals and utilize a good assist to maximize range. Most Sentinels who lose to Cyke are the ones who try to get close to him. Next thing you know, Cyke lands a normal in mid air which sets him up for a perfect Kyo Hammer Fist >>> SFR jump in coming down into whatever. In short, Sentinel loses to cyclops the same way he'd lose to IM: When he shows him no respect. But provided both characters are about even in life and Sentinel just holds back, he's a bitch to fight with Cyke. I'd give this one to Sent at about 6.5-3.5. I'd still say Cyke has a slightly better fight against a gay Sentinel than IM does.

And the Cyke vs. Cable match is arguably THE UGLIEST match out of the top 8 characters (up there with Sent vs. Doom). Sure, 98% of the cast loses cleanly to cable. That's why Cable is up there. But how many of those in the top 8 lose as cleanly as cyclops? Storm? Magneto? Doom? Spiral? Strider? IM? Sentinel? The worst one out of all of those is probably Sentinel, but at least he has angles he can rely on. Cyke can't even get close if Cable just hides behind nades all day.

[#reload]

once sent gets unfly, i dont see how cyke even has a chance

i just wish cyke wasn't so damn average at everything

[gouki10]

cyke fights sentinel like how cable fights sentinel, keep away/chip

it all depends on the the situation, IMO anything is doable, it's just that somethings are harder than others, but if you stop to really think about it, theres an answer for every problem.

[50mOrEcEnTz]

like 360 tried to tell yall...im's limbs do not lose out. that is scary in a whole 'nuther dimension.

as far as placing him in place of doom on a doom team isn't fair...thats like me saying storm/im/sent, put doom there and it would completely suk...that doesn't mean he suk, he just dont belong. but i do think that im/sent/capcom (or any AAA u would prefer with doom) beats doom/sent/aaa...personal opinion i guess x_X

[KillerKai]

Playing keepaway/chip with cyke doesn't work very well on the ground since spit fly unfly beats out most of what cyke does on the ground. Sent with mag proj or commando aa will also end up punishing you for it and very likely force you into the corner.

Cyke's saving graces in this match are that his normals in the air set him up perfectly to follow up on the way down and that he's one of the only 3 characters in the top 8 who can stop sentinel cold in his tracks anytime and make it worthwile if Sentinel tries punishing his assist (the other two being cable and strider). Optic sweep is also good in taking out mediocre sentinels who try to go with ghetto drone traps.

sure, there's an answer for everything. but the characters with the most effective answers in a specific matchup will always have the advantage.

[gouki10]

sure, there's an answer for everything. but the characters with the most effective answers in a specific matchup will always have the advantage.

the bolded statement is the theory, and the after part is the reality.

i play marvel trying to make theory a reality...

i believe if you see sentinel do a c.hp, you normal jump up, call drones, and do an air optic .The optic blast knocks him out of fly mode before he can unfly block(sucks tho that he gets unfly for this) and the drones will make him block, after you recover from your optic blast in the air, look to see if he push blocked the drones, if so the a s.hp will GC him. Most likely he'll throw another c.hp, but this time you see it comming with enough time to do a c.hp to cancel his laser, and do a lp gene splic + drones, and cancel the the gene splice to PP super for chip.

in reality this is all theory, but it's better to discuss the possibilities so that way you can have answer for when situations come up. Of course there are match ups with advantages being one sided, but then agian why would you always want to have an easy match? Marvel is so great because of the big learning curve.

[Jake]

Cyke vs Cable is not that bad to me. It just sucks a bit if cable has drones cause they recover so fast and the only way cyke gets around them is superjump or normal jump + double jump which leaves cable in a good spot. Cable + BH + AAA is not too fun either but how often do you see cyke on point vs that team eh...

Anyway, the most important thing is being able to advance forward through cable's clutter + assist spams without getting randomly hit. SOB is perfectly safe on cable if you use it while not on the same horizontal plane as cable. If you SOB on a different plane and he's jump fiercing there's really no way for him to avoid getting hit since the move is so laggy and anything he cancels to means he's getting hit. Most of the times I use SOB on cable is from above, you can safely punish assists + smack cable from there fine. Really good damage if you peg him from above and trace the beam to the top of the screen. Throw in a hail DHC if she's in the back and it's real painful.

Cyke's launch beats out cable's j.rh for free if you manage to get under him and it's not hard to set up since cable has no air mobility at all. Once he starts blocking on the way down you go for crossup low short into death or throw into assist into death. If he gets launched you infinite him into a dhc or reset, if you can't then step your cyke game up. If you don't have that infinite threat then you lose the fight, period.

Now cyke vs sent/aaa on the other hand... that shit sucks. It's easily his worst fight out of the big 4 to me.

[gouki10]

^truth, i think between Cable and Sentinel, either one can be a hard match, it all depends on how well you know to approach the fight, for me, i would have a harder time with cable then sentinel cause im not that great at rushing cable down with cyke as i am keeping sentinel away.

[KillerKai]

the problem with that scenario is that it's VERY situational. jumping optic blast has enough lag for the other sentinel to just fly over to you and combo you on the lag right after canceling the c hp into a fly depending on when he cancels into fly. Best case scenario, you knock him down and bring him down with some damage. Worst case scenario, he takes have your life with a combo. On reaction, most good sentinels will either fly over or sumper jumpxx fly over to you for a combo. Jumping optic blasts aren't really something I'd use against a flying sentinel because they aren't exactly viper beams with that wide coverage and duration.

Of course there are match ups with advantages being one sided, but then agian why would you always want to have an easy match?
ask everyone who has ever changed their team the next game around for the sake of countering the other guy. When you compete, the idea is to win. Winning = $$$, self esteem, or getting laid depending on who you are.

[Ouroborus]

imo,

spiral > strider > im > cyke > doom.

strider is a meter hog, dead weight when hes not on point and if anyone in his team dies, the whole team sorta just falls apart.

when i see combofiend fight strider teams with im, he dont fight them directly. he goes for that proton cannon dhc ftw.

[Cisco]

Now cyke vs sent/aaa on the other hand... that shit sucks. It's easily his worst fight out of the big 4 to me.

I think cable/aaa is tougher for cyke

[gouki10]

ask everyone who has ever changed their team the next game around for the sake of countering the other guy. When you compete, the idea is to win. Winning = $$$, self esteem, or getting laid depending on who you are.

...?

your right, getting the advantage is important, but then remember that some people play to explore everything the game offers while going for the win.

[lilzizzay814816]

IMO i think that cyke doesnt stand a chance against a great cable/aaa.
He couild hang wit sent but againt a great cable. NO DEAL. All the cyke players in memphis dont even hold up to magneto. Thats my maine character when i play. You can rush cyke down if you have the right assit. i use storms aaa and if i connect with a combo after that cyke is a rap cause once yo infinite is right you reset it and kill em.
thts my opinon on the situation.

cyke shouldnt be considered 5th god.

im is better than him

[KillerKai]

...?


Like I said, it depends who you are. Next time you win a tourney, go up to a girl and say "Hey, I just won a marvel tourney, wanna fuck?" If you are the right kind of person, you'll get laid.

[50mOrEcEnTz]

this has gotten off topic...so i'll try to end this discussion.

cyke vs cable sux cuz if cable has meter, anything cyke does can be punished just about. so cyke must kill cable before he gets 2 or 3 bars or he doesn't win. point blank period.

cyke vs sentinel is cool...but a lot of the times you see cyke winning this matchup is when cyke has more life than sentinel and sentinel feels like he has to play more aggressive than cyke. the same way cyke's air normals win out, if you play smart with sentinel, cyke has to be careful not to get ff'ed or frying pan. i'd say this matchup is even, if not still slanted sentinels way.

im and cyke both can do good against magneto because each have normals that can hurt magneto (aka win out and punish)...and magneto can rape both for obvious reasons if he gets his hit via air normal or assist.

the little god tier order i think is storm sent and cable/mag tied for 3rd

who's fifth? no1 knows. but imo probably IM =)

btw., another side note on cyke...a lot of the reason why cyke is good also and HELPS win a lot of matches is because cyke doesn't need a clean hit...he can jump around build meter until he just hits you with random optic beam or some shid then dhc ftw...not just because cyke is beastly and will outbeast the whole squad. cyke is solid for that reason imo. i still feel what i said in the above is correct though =)

[lilzizzay814816]

Like I said, it depends who you are. Next time you win a tourney, go up to a girl and say "Hey, I just won a marvel tourney, wanna fuck?" If you are the right kind of person, you'll get laid.

u right. marvel will get you liad...just gotta kno how to spit that game

[lilzizzay814816]

this has gotten off topic...so i'll try to end this discussion.

cyke vs cable sux cuz if cable has meter, anything cyke does can be punished just about. so cyke must kill cable before he gets 2 or 3 bars or he doesn't win. point blank period.

cyke vs sentinel is cool...but a lot of the times you see cyke winning this matchup is when cyke has more life than sentinel and sentinel feels like he has to play more aggressive than cyke. the same way cyke's air normals win out, if you play smart with sentinel, cyke has to be careful not to get ff'ed or frying pan. i'd say this matchup is even, if not still slanted sentinels way.

im and cyke both can do good against magneto because each have normals that can hurt magneto (aka win out and punish)...and magneto can rape both for obvious reasons if he gets his hit via air normal or assist.

the little god tier order i think is storm sent and cable/mag tied for 3rd

who's fifth? no1 knows. but imo probably IM =)

btw., another side note on cyke...a lot of the reason why cyke is good also and HELPS win a lot of matches is because cyke doesn't need a clean hit...he can jump around build meter until he just hits you with random optic beam or some shid then dhc ftw...not just because cyke is beastly and will outbeast the whole squad. cyke is solid for that reason imo. i still feel what i said in the above is correct though =)

i do get what your sayin doe

[Jake]

cyke vs cable sux cuz if cable has meter, anything cyke does can be punished just about. so cyke must kill cable before he gets 2 or 3 bars or he doesn't win. point blank period.


If that's the best reasoning you got to why cyke loses the matchup then you must not really play cyke much at all. That is hardly convincing. Anyway, this talk won't lead anywhere. Just leave IM at top tier 5th and be done with it.

[shoultzula]

theres alot of people mentioning what a character can do on point. Even though that may justify some of the arguement, top tier placement is also going to come down to team function. IE, how well does that person work with the team. you better believe that if strider had an AA, he would be god tier easy. The only thing missing from strider is team function. It sucks really because he's god like.

cyke vs IM as an assist is almost a joke. I'm has pretty solid AA that hits for big life, but its not fast nor does it have any invincibility. When its out though, it can create some problems. Also, IM has that point in time during his AA where he's still in animation and he can be he hit for free + the taunt time.

However, cyke is AA is 3\4 screen INVINCIBLE poke with combo potential and if the opponents point character is less thatn 3\4 screen away, like 1\2 screen, cyke will cover his own exit because he goes behind the opponent. You don't really need to protect him in most cases if you use him right.

when you stack up cyke to IM side by side. IM may have the upper hand in most cases because honestly he's really one touch kill anywhere on the screen if you have unfly? I don't know much about IM but if he can unfly, refly air to ground infinite i'm picking him. Anyway, cyke can also put a fight against a majority of the cast. Give me any character with a double jump, good priority, good supers, beefy easy combos and i'll make it work somehow.

Both of them really have good priority.

Cyke has the better supers.

cyke PROVIDES better team function. More than IM ever will.

IM great fighter > ok assist
cyke great fighter > great assist

since marvel is team based, looking @ how a character will contribute to the team as well as fight with the team are both important aspects of decidings whos the best. If point play was the only thing that really mattered, strider would easily be top 4 ahead of cable but he's not. Cable gots him because cable has the better teams and better team chemistry. Strider is forced to pick doom. Now that you have your s\d duo, you now need a 3rd to create some chemistry and give strider what he needs and theres no character in the game that can do that for s\d. Strider is forced to pick a character who will aid what he needs, meter\stamina, in order for him to be effective. Striders weakest strength is his team chemistry. Cable can pick drones and other an AA or have cable as the AA. Even though strider may be the better point character, cable can fight just as well AND cable has the team chemistry to back him up incase he gets dropped. If strider drops in 5 seconds, its usually "aww he didn't get a chance to go nutty" or " get that bum out of here." Usually if strider drops, its game because the lack of team chemistry forced him to pick xxx\doom. Thats not going to win much against top players. Now if cable drops, especially on the right teams, theres still a little team function left to salvage the round like on scrub\RO.

all tough strider may be the better fighter stacked up against cable, the team function that cable provides make his team better.

[gouki10]

lol you went from explaining Ironman's stats vs Cyke's stats to showing Strider's stats.:looney: :rofl: :rofl: :looney:

hopefully i get to play you one day at a jax-ville tourny, final round, or maybe Evo if im lucky, im not really sure just how good strider is.

[shoultzula]

lol you went from explaining Ironman's stats vs Cyke's stats to showing Strider's stats.:looney: :rofl: :rofl: :looney:

hopefully i get to play you one day at a jax-ville tourny, final round, or maybe Evo if im lucky, im not really sure just how good strider is.

I was trying to get across how important team function is rather than point character dynamics. Strider is a prime example of how a team can be great but bad because of horrible team function, his gameplay has to manipulated to make his weaknesses less obvious or harder to exploit.

I can sit here and say well strider can destroy your assist off 1 bar, do 80% off one orb hit on point, 50\50 trap sequences>back into trap>back into 50\50, unblockable super flash techniques, xups that magnus would call broken, guranteed trap reps, guard break option tree, and if s\d is played right it should be able to fight any squad so why isn't strider 5th?

he's got horrible team chemistry. Easy answer. Some characters are a bit more grey than others though, cyke\im for instance.

in this case, both cyke\IM both have good assists and both fight well, especially IM, except that cyke AA is fucking beastly. More than IM AA ever will. Ontop of cyke having that assist type that provides great team function, he's got great priority and a good super thats dhc friendly. Not to mention that cyke will cover his own exit if you use him right and if your opponent is willing to make an extra move to catch cyke, you usually you can punish back for free. IM hangs out too long and you have to cover him but when his AA is out it does beefy life and can annoy shit.

IM may have 1 hit kill and a frame kill dhc but its always going to boil down to team function in the end and cyclops is better @ that.

[gouki10]

solid > 1 hit kill basicly

[Mixup]

lol, everyone is going to have to agree to disagree and drop it until somone comes up with a convincing argument.

i'm convinced that 2 touches = death is solid, even better if that char can start a combo then reset into near 95%....

cyclops is a really well rounded character, i'm lookin to hurt people with versatility, everyone is going to have their own method.

it's a team based game anyways, so alot of this shit dun matter.

[Cisco]

IM may have 1 hit kill and a frame kill dhc but its always going to boil down to team function in the end and cyclops is better @ that.

Well, i don't think you are wrong, it's just.

That frame kill dhc gives allot of plusses in to team function, imo. For example, escaping/punshings HSF's. DHC's means so much to everyteam, it's has allot of value. You need a good dhc. I consider IM's the 2nd best DHC only because Storm's is unpunishable.. it's amaising that you can connect a j.hkxxMTxxDHC-IM and send allot of damage to the opponent. I consider that a good team function. IM's assist is a good and reliable assist as well, it's just use differently. I'll admit, cykes is better because it's well rounded, but IM's is still good. A good assist for allot of teams because it fuckin hurts.

[J360]

i think the reason people put IM down is because they dont got no TRICKS with the guy. and i think cykes limbs are almost impossible to beat out sometimes cause theyre priority and angles are rediculous

[StriderX]

I say we all agree to not care and form our own tier lists, because everyone knows that tier lists make absolutely no difference at all in the game whatsoever. If you know the game, then you know who the difference makers are. You don't carry a little sheet of paper with a "tier list" on it, to remind you who you need to pick. Cable, Storm, Magneto and Sent are the best in the game. There's no arguing that. None. After that, there's a pretty good collection of characters that are dangerous for their own reasons, and are definitely pickable. So, let's all just disagree and give man (or woman, if you happen to be the rare breed) - love to the character we think is the best. For me, it would go

Strider > Cyke > Dhalsim > Doom > IM > Spiral

But that's just me, and to be honest, I consider all six of them to essentially be equals anyway.

[randomsuper]

discussing tiers is always great for debating purposes. nothing else ever really comes out of it.

[50mOrEcEnTz]

If that's the best reasoning you got to why cyke loses the matchup then you must not really play cyke much at all. That is hardly convincing. Anyway, this talk won't lead anywhere. Just leave IM at top tier 5th and be done with it.

im curious...does he not get beamed for everything?

s.rh gets push blocked = beam

doesn't both supers get beamed?

how can i do damage with cyke against cable?

[Remix1213]

im curious...does he not get beamed for everything?

s.rh gets push blocked = beam

doesn't both supers get beamed?

how can i do damage with cyke against cable?

Prey that cable gets ground hyper....:rofl:

EDit: cyke gets owned by tiger-knee viper beams

[Jake]

im curious...does he not get beamed for everything?

s.rh gets push blocked = beam

doesn't both supers get beamed?

how can i do damage with cyke against cable?

Uh s.rh gets beamed? Are you doing 2 roundhouses? If you just do 1 I don't see how it's feasible unless he pushblocks like a lk, mk before it, in that case, don't do the rh and you're fine?

If you land a super on cable on the ground, you're going to DHC 9 times out of 10, he can't beam that? If it's an air juggle if you aim it properly it'll take him way higher than you and he can't shoot you there either.

If you land a hit on cable, you just do lk, mk, 1 hit cyclone kick xx MOB and it's a knockdown, he can't punish that? You shouldn't even have to do that anyway rarely at all, if you land a super on him, you do sob then dhc and he's pretty much done. But lk, mk xx cyclone kick is his maximum range combo so if you manage to get a hit you can always go into this bnb instead if the dhc isn't there.

He can't punish a blocked anti air launcher. What exactly are you doing? You just doing random supers that let him ahvb after you've already done yours or something? If you're using your supers stupidly then you deserve to be shot just like a storm who typhoon xx hails while cable is still free.

I mean saying cyke gets zoned out is one thing, but to say he loses because cable can punish his supers is just baseless.

[StriderX]

Uh s.rh gets beamed? Are you doing 2 roundhouses? If you just do 1 I don't see how it's feasible unless he pushblocks like a lk, mk before it, in that case, don't do the rh and you're fine?

If you land a super on cable on the ground, you're going to DHC 9 times out of 10, he can't beam that? If it's an air juggle if you aim it properly it'll take him way higher than you and he can't shoot you there either.

If you land a hit on cable, you just do lk, mk, 1 hit cyclone kick xx MOB and it's a knockdown, he can't punish that? You shouldn't even have to do that anyway rarely at all, if you land a super on him, you do sob then dhc and he's pretty much done. But lk, mk xx cyclone kick is his maximum range combo so if you manage to get a hit you can always go into this bnb instead if the dhc isn't there.

He can't punish a blocked anti air launcher. What exactly are you doing? You just doing random supers that let him ahvb after you've already done yours or something? If you're using your supers stupidly then you deserve to be shot just like a storm who typhoon xx hails while cable is still free.

I mean saying cyke gets zoned out is one thing, but to say he loses because cable can punish his supers is just baseless.

A bigger question would be why is Cable blocking normals at all? Cyke doesn't really have any reliable way of getting close to Cable, and it's not like he can just play keep away and chip. If the match is Cyke trying to hold a lead vs. Cable, sure Cyke can do that. Anyone can. Hold back. However, if you're trying to take a lead FROM Cable with Cyke, which is the far more likely option, there's little that Cyke can do to cover ground without just getting caught up in the waves of clutter that Cable can toss out.

[50mOrEcEnTz]

Uh s.rh gets beamed? Are you doing 2 roundhouses? If you just do 1 I don't see how it's feasible unless he pushblocks like a lk, mk before it, in that case, don't do the rh and you're fine?

If you land a super on cable on the ground, you're going to DHC 9 times out of 10, he can't beam that? If it's an air juggle if you aim it properly it'll take him way higher than you and he can't shoot you there either.

If you land a hit on cable, you just do lk, mk, 1 hit cyclone kick xx MOB and it's a knockdown, he can't punish that? You shouldn't even have to do that anyway rarely at all, if you land a super on him, you do sob then dhc and he's pretty much done. But lk, mk xx cyclone kick is his maximum range combo so if you manage to get a hit you can always go into this bnb instead if the dhc isn't there.

He can't punish a blocked anti air launcher. What exactly are you doing? You just doing random supers that let him ahvb after you've already done yours or something? If you're using your supers stupidly then you deserve to be shot just like a storm who typhoon xx hails while cable is still free.

I mean saying cyke gets zoned out is one thing, but to say he loses because cable can punish his supers is just baseless.

i mean the ways that both, cable has to hit cyclops and cyclops has to hit cable are so not sneaky. i juss feel cable has more leadway with his gun than cyclops with his kicks. the main way i see a cable get beasted by a cyclops is the cable tries to do the little crossover trick whenn they comin down from a sj and his sj.d+rh aces cable. other than that i juss can't see cable getting hit by cyke...unless by random uppercut, that is kinda fast. u know? i mean that might be the reason i dont play with both of those characters a lot. i juss think cyke+assist and cable+assist is favored in cable's way too heavily.

i dont play either of these chara's a lot so im not a having a problem specifically...i was juss recollecting to what i normally see...i just dont normally see cyke win out, most of the time he gets friggin shot or dhc's out against cable.

u win, i dont like cyke or cable =_=

[Jake]

A bigger question would be why is Cable blocking normals at all? Cyke doesn't really have any reliable way of getting close to Cable, and it's not like he can just play keep away and chip. If the match is Cyke trying to hold a lead vs. Cable, sure Cyke can do that. Anyone can. Hold back. However, if you're trying to take a lead FROM Cable with Cyke, which is the far more likely option, there's little that Cyke can do to cover ground without just getting caught up in the waves of clutter that Cable can toss out.

That is definitely arguable. If I see cable perpetually keeping a cyke at least a couple of character distances away from him then ok, I will agree cyke loses to cable badly. Doesn't really happen to me and I just don't see how it's possible. You have to be extremely bad at marvel in general for that to happen and would probably lose with mag/storm vs cable too in that case. Double jump is not that great for getting close to cable but it's still better than nothing.

I already posted a couple of things you can do earlier in the thread, but I don't think anyone will ever be convinced until they see some match footage or something. So I'll just leave the theory fighter alone.

[StriderX]

That is definitely arguable. If I see cable perpetually keeping a cyke at least a couple of character distances away from him then ok, I will agree cyke loses to cable badly. Doesn't really happen to me and I just don't see how it's possible. You have to be extremely bad at marvel in general for that to happen and would probably lose with mag/storm vs cable too in that case. Double jump is not that great for getting close to cable but it's still better than nothing.

I already posted a couple of things you can do earlier in the thread, but I don't think anyone will ever be convinced until they see some match footage or something. So I'll just leave the theory fighter alone.

I've beaten Cable with Cyke before too, I'm aware it's possible. Hell, I've violated Cable with Doom before (gogo 95% combo DHC combo!) But we're playing theory fighter here, so I'm forced by court order to act like a total know-it-all prick. I'm not sure why. Anyway, I'll just say that putting Cyke against Cable is not a good situation, and should be avoided if at all possible.

[RisunoMeijin]

Well since this is a team game assists can make up for character weaknesses and make characters better. Which is why i say IM is top 4, as far as him losing to fly up back + cap what character doesnt have trouble against that? Thats Top 3 best duos in the game if not the best... Since he has assist he can fight that, I think that IM with Cap or Cyke would cause Sent lots of problems. A good overall IM team would be IM/Sent/Cap but noone uses that so noone will know how good it is...:shake:

My boy Fred plays IM/Sent/CapCom and its alot better than most would think.

Air resets with the commando assist are nasty with Sent, but they are instant death with Iron Man. And it gets hard to watch for the block if he uses the assist correctly.
Not to mention the the DHC that sent gets with IM.

I believe that Iron Man is gonna be just as good as the person playing him, and believe the tier listings make iron man better, because knowing what beats him out coming from the top 4, you can adjust your gameplan to revolve around that.

Looking at frame data, and watching a good iron man on point vs. a good magneto on point, you cant say iron man doesnt have options. It just matters if the decisions you are making are the right ones. In real time, thats hard, but it gets easier with trial and error.

As far as pacesetting and match control, you cant be much more in control than
infinate > guard break > infinate > guard break > infinate > death