Marvel... Not Marvel vs Capcom 2... Marvel!

[Demon Dash]

So I'm in two minds about MvC2 when concerning balance in this game. The way I think of it, you have not got one game, as it's title indicates, but two games created by Capcom's stupidity... On one hand you have Marvel vs Capcom 2 which is totally unbalanced. Out of 54 characters, 42 aren't really played at all. It's not just that they don't get played though, they actually suck beyond comprehension too. Such a waste of creativity... On the other hand, you have Marvel which is totally balanced. 12 characters out of 54 dominate the cast, but can get raped just as hard as they can give by their fellow top tier teams. As long as your team dynamics and level of play are up to standard, you have pretty much an even chance of survival.

So what are your opinions on this? Personally I think it leaves room for a lot more debate about whether the game is actually broken or not. What actually is Marvel vs Capcom 2? Is it the game we've known for past years? Or is it a waste of great potential on Capcom's behalf? Personally I can't decide whether the game is broken or not because I don't know what I'm even looking at...

Discuss...

[ParryPerson.]

This is a stupid thread.

[Green]

"head chest balls" will solve your problem. :\

[Demon Dash]

What I'm suprised at his how balanced a severely broken game can be. I can't argue that there's generally top tier circles in games that creates that balance at the top, but in MvC2 it seems to go a lot further. Even the top four are kind of insignificant because of team dynamics. Just with the length of time Marvel has been getting played I find it amazing how balanced the game still is. Even though the majority of the cast don't get played and some characters are naturally more dominant, the strategies within the top tier can still be countered.

I guess what I'm asking is, what are your opinions on the balance issues within and out of the most used characters?

[True Grave]

It is more like 56 characters with only about 7-8 ever getting played in comps.

I don't count characters that only seem to get used for 1 trait and nothing more(Assists!) like capcom and t-bone.

[gouki10]

the game let's u play in teams, as far as balance goes, you should be able to come up with an answer to your situation based on the fact that you have 3 characters that can be put on point, plus 2 assist for each character, giving you 9 duos on one team.

i think the game is balanced, it just has a big learning curve.

[rising_player]

Those 42 characters that "suck beyond comprehension " don't really suck. They're just harder to learn to play with.



But then how about this.

Someone manages to use low tier characters and come up with a fresh trap, then I'm sure that specific team would be considred good for a while until someone finds a way to defeat that trap. eg = zaza's wolverine and gambit trap. :o you gotta watch that crazy video of zaza's.

:D

[TrueSephiroth]

Seriously, if someone "mysteriously" knows a way to use Ryu so that he can compete on a high lvl in MvC2, my ears are listening. As for Demon Dash's question, you are true, if your just counting with the top characters that do recieve play, it's quite balanced, everyone can pretty much pick apart everyone, however imo it comes down to teams, I mean, I love team MSP(I will never change), however they don't do nearly as solid as Santhrax overall.

MvC2 is balanced if we look at it from that perspective, fucken love this game.

[True Grave]

MVC2 is definitely not balanced at all, which is putting it nicely.

Just by the way nearly all of the capcom cast is severely underpowered, compared to the marvel side. Like capcom put all their effort into the marvel cast, and got lazy with the rest.

Charlie for example: Realistically by MVC2 standards, he should be able to throw out sets of 3 sonic booms normally all the time, and without having to charge for them. With his supers being a lot more advanced, air supers too, no charging for flash kicks either, etc.

Even then Charlie would still have a hard time with the likes of Cable and storm, at least his abilities would be a lot closer to specs with the marvel cast.

[vkuwabara]

mvc2 is not balanced, fact, but it has a good variety of teams.


Seriously, if someone "mysteriously" knows a way to use Ryu so that he can compete on a high lvl in MvC2, my ears are listening.
a good shoto team
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPtXNMsyE0M

[TrueSephiroth]

a good shoto team
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPtXNMsyE0M

I saw that awhile back, it still has not convinced me anything.

[rYo_sakaZaki]

well, this game's name should be "godtiers vs marvel&capcom"

[RedSilverAnakris]

true grave are you retarded? Although Marvel's ast overpowers most of Capcom (key word most) there are still some decent Capcom chars: (Dhalsim, Anakaris, Ken, Strider, Guile).

And your points about Charlie make no sense, who cares how they set the motion for his moves, Anakaris' are ten times wiereder, ( HK, LP, LK+Down, HP) is a harder motion, and some of his motions for moves like Snake Attack interfere with Mummy Hands. But that doesn't determine how good the character is.
Charlie sux neway.

[Jin Cena]

ken and guile are too beginner friendly to be considered good.

[True Grave]

true grave are you retarded? Although Marvel's ast overpowers most of Capcom (key word most) there are still some decent Capcom chars: (Dhalsim, Anakaris, Ken, Strider, Guile).

Which is why I stated the keywords: "nearly all" when referring to underpowered Capcom characters.

Nearly All, does not equal= All.

And your points about Charlie make no sense

My points about Charlie make perfect sense. How many Top-tiers or Solid Mid-tiers in the game need charging for their moves? Very few if any.

Also the Sonic boom, is like tossing a pebble against a char with stuff like lasers and uni-beams. By Marvel standards, Charlie should have had a lot more advanced projectiles to make use of.

Charlie sux neway.

He is certainly Low-tier, but can definitly kick ass in the right hands. If you can't figure out how to make use of him, it is because YOU suck, and not Charlie.

[ParryPerson.]

Wow, if you think his projectile is that useless, you are not a charlie player in MVC2 (and I know a few).

I love how this game has been out forever, and True Grave now wants it to be a balanced 54 char roster (with charlie in the upper mid tier right?).

You sound pretty scrubby, I'm not going to lie.

[True Grave]

Wow, if you think his projectile is that useless, you are not a charlie player in MVC2 (and I know a few).

Wrong, Indeed I am a Charlie player, and his projectile definitly has it uses(slow booms). He can't exactly trade in a firefight with the marvel characters however, which was my point with my analogy of the pebble.

I love how this game has been out forever, and True Grave now wants it to be a balanced 54 char roster (with charlie in the upper mid tier right?).

Please take the time to read my posts properly. I never said I wanted it to suddenly be balanced, I was just explaining how it is Not balanced, and just using charlie as one of the examples of the Capcom cast who are underpowered.

Not being able to comprehend well? Thats a scrubby trait, I'm not going to lie.

Or being able to comprehend well, but pretending to interpret posts wrong to suit an argument? Equally as scrubby.

I also make it a point not to argue with scrubs for long, I have better ways to waste my time than that, so I'm done with you here.

~later yo :wonder:

[RedSilverAnakris]

ill 1v1 your charlie vs my anakaris, and we will see who sucks, no assists, just pure 1v1. Actually, My assists suk for that matter ( Omega anti-air, Samurai launcher), but you can use whatever assist you want, and I will still own your Charlie.

[True Grave]

ill 1v1 your charlie vs my anakaris, and we will see who sucks, no assists, just pure 1v1. Actually, My assists suk for that matter ( Omega anti-air, Samurai launcher), but you can use whatever assist you want, and I will still own your Charlie.

Would not waste my time, nor have I ever challenged you and you're scrubby anakaris either, so save your breath.

[Green]

Complaining is scrubby. No way around it.

[ParryPerson.]

Complaining is scrubby. No way around it.

QFT



(filler)

[True Grave]

Complaining is scrubby. No way around it.

As is complaining about complaining, and it just becomes a great big scrubby circle. Whatever, tis all same in the end, not going to dwell on it all.

:wonder:

[Green]

What makes you think I'm complaining about you? What you say doesn't offend me, if that's what you were thinking.

[True Grave]

What makes you think I'm complaining about you? What you say doesn't offend me, if that's what you were thinking.

No, not trying to offend you either. The discussion has just turned silly and all.

[beatsofdevil]

What makes you think I'm complaining about you? What you say doesn't offend me, if that's what you were thinking.

umm he never said you were complaining about him. but you WERE complaining. being a little defensive aren't you? (expecting some sort of witty comeback :P)

anyway enough with the scrub talk. what was this thread about?

but yes, in the god and top tier teams, there is actually quite some balance

mags/storm beating cable, cable beating sent, sent beating pixies (of course not all the time and depeding on team, but generally) for example.

some low tiers do well against some high tiers. like megaman vs. mags and sometimes storm.

but it's really only because of all the characters and the whole "team" thing.

if it were a much smaller roster (including some gods/tops being taken out) and no teams or smaller teams it would be different. since there's a lot of characters and thus more chars. in the god/top/mid tiers just playing with them (which is pretty much how it is) can sort of count as it's own game and is pretty balanced.

[Green]

umm he never said you were complaining about him. but you WERE complaining.
About what?
being a little defensive aren't you? (expecting some sort of witty comeback :P)
I don't understand. Maybe it's just that I'm interpreting certain phrases as I would mean them, but "as is complaining about complaining" sure sounds like he's trying to say I'm complaining.

Anyway, I'm done.

[shoryuken1030]

that video of shoto team made me happy. i'm tired of the tier sayers who don't have faith in other characters.

[Murakumo]

Marvel + Strider and Dhalsim 2, a new age of heroes!

... Someone forgot to useradioactive goop on the SF characters to turn them super...

[50mOrEcEnTz]

No, not trying to offend you either. The discussion has just turned silly and all.

it has become silly because silly people want silly editors that dont exist to change a silly game =)

marvel is not balanced if 3s is what you want all games to be like, or a game balanced like third strike. most games are not balanced on some level. (including cvs2 and even 3s)

the ugly fact of the day is...unless your trying to win tournaments. the people most people normally play against, normal competition...you could win with charlie :-x you would just have to find the correct helper to help your team out (aka tron projectile). you can win with lots of characters, the simple fact that you wont beat wong, sanford, or any of EC top players and most WC top players that actualy win tournaments with charlie shouldn't completely turn you off of the game. and if it does...i guess just get turned off and dont play charlie, marvel, or post in marvel section?

[True Grave]

normal competition...you could win with charlie :-x you would just have to find the correct helper to help your team out (aka tron projectile).

LOL the hell I would.

I can kick ass with Charlie, without a sleaze assist such as T-bone, behind him. As well as beat others who rely on t-bone a lot for their wins. If I'm not up against a full God-tier team, my low-tiers led by Charlie do pretty well.

[RedSilverAnakris]

Would not waste my time, nor have I ever challenged you and you're scrubby anakaris either, so save your breath.

You keep rambling about how you use Charlie, yet you cant beat top tiers with him, so whats the point of using him (other than fun)?

O and explain to me how someone can hav a scrubby Anakaris, thats like saying there is sucha thing as scrubby Magneto.

[ParryPerson.]

LOL the hell I would.

I can kick ass with Charlie, without a sleaze assist such as T-bone, behind him.

You need to put that in your sig, so people know how seriously to take you. You aren't playing MVC2, you are playing with made up silly rules, there are no "morals" in fighters, and if you think T-Bone is a sleaze assist, what are commando and psylocke?

You are the ultimate scrub, and not just in my eyes, anyone that reads what I just quoted would think the same. Maybe you should stop playing TrueGraveMVC2 rules marvel, and just play marvel instead.

I'm not going to respond to you trying to defend your position, you really can't, anyway.

[Green]

::Crickets Chirp::
lol

(not at Parry)

[RedSilverAnakris]

if you think tron assists is sleaze, you are a scrub, a non-scrub would never say commando, psyloke, doom, torn are cheap. There are ways to get around them, its not impossible.

[Jin Cena]

True Grave=Super Warrior in case nobody knew already:wink:

[ParryPerson.]

That would explain the scrubby posts then.

[True Grave]

Wow guys. I'm almost flattered by the way you're so compelled to flame, and or try to get a rise out of me with your petty generic insults(I'm a scrub? Oh nos!).

When did I get a fan club again? :sweat:

Nice try, but nope. Sorryz :looney:

[ParryPerson.]

Well, if it IS true that you are in fact, super warrior, then none of us would have said anything, and chopped it up to you being good old scrubby Super Warrior.

Put it in your sig so people won't bother.

[True Grave]

Now resorting to petty accusations in a desperate, last-ditch attempt to rile me up?

Okayyy, just give it up dude because you aren't good at the whole flame baiting tactic. Like i said in the X-arcade thread, take your PMS meds and chill, or go look for another net target that might fall for your amature act.



~TG

[50mOrEcEnTz]

Now resorting to petty accusations in a desperate, last-ditch attempt to rile me up?

Okayyy, just give it up dude because you aren't good at the whole flame baiting tactic. Like i said in the X-arcade thread, take your PMS meds and chill, or go look for another net target that might fall for your amature act.



~TG some people really just want to talk to other people:rofl: not actually elevate their marvel game :rolleyes:

[shoryuken1030]

i think everyone in mvc2 are good if you play them right, specially with the right assits buddies. some characters just require less effort is all thus why those characters are used more.

people who don't learn and complain about imba are scrubs to me.
or should i say don't truly try to play and learn?

[Banshee]

i think everyone in mvc2 are good if you play them right, specially with the right assits buddies. some characters just require less effort is all thus why those characters are used more.


Less effort? I don't think so man.


If you put the same time and effort in storm as you do in Ryu, you'll win more with Storm.


Character rankings assume both players are of the same skill level. If you put more effort in learning the game than your opponent, than the tiers you two would come up with would be flawed.

[shoryuken1030]

@Banshee, what you said sounds good, and I agree with you Storm can beat Ryu better. I'm just saying someone like the Ryu player will have to try harder than the Storm player because of their characters abilities besides their own.

but ya i agree with you.

[beatsofdevil]

Less effort? I don't think so man.


If you put the same time and effort in storm as you do in Ryu, you'll win more with Storm.


Character rankings assume both players are of the same skill level. If you put more effort in learning the game than your opponent, than the tiers you two would come up with would be flawed.
umm which is exactly what was said. storm requires less effort to win more/easier.... : /

[dann]

think of all the buttons you have to press for mag/storm! and sent has to fly/unfly so many times, i think that takes the most effort to play well with. scrubs can't start off with storm/mag, they stick with ryu, guile, characters that require less effort.

that's just what i think. with all the tri jumping, dashing around, ROM, sent fly/unfly, i couldn't have done that in the beginning because it takes a lot of effort. i could do a shoryuken since street fighter II.

but all that's up to a saturation point, which once is passed, the potential (and tiers) of the characters makes a difference, but that's still at a pretty high level of play.

[beatsofdevil]

think of all the buttons you have to press for mag/storm! and sent has to fly/unfly so many times, i think that takes the most effort to play well with. scrubs can't start off with storm/mag, they stick with ryu, guile, characters that require less effort.

that's just what i think. with all the tri jumping, dashing around, ROM, sent fly/unfly, i couldn't have done that in the beginning because it takes a lot of effort. i could do a shoryuken since street fighter II.

but all that's up to a saturation point, which once is passed, the potential (and tiers) of the characters makes a difference, but that's still at a pretty high level of play.
well all those "button presses" are just at a higher level of play.

scrubs/noobs could play the top four with much less effort and win more. hail, hsf, ahvb and all the other things. Trust me, higher tiers require less effort to compete with lower tiers. you don't need inf.'s resets and whatnots at low levels of play or to beat shoto's. understand?

[shoryuken1030]

marvel is a fun game, let's all agree to that. newbs, scrubs, pros, champs, leets

[RisunoMeijin]

It is more like 56 characters with only about 7-8 ever getting played in comps.

I don't count characters that only seem to get used for 1 trait and nothing more(Assists!) like capcom and t-bone.

CapCom on point is the man. Add drones or Storm PA and you can beast.
Cap/IronMan/Hulk = better than you think

[Mixah]

what one player does with low tiers does not define their placement. a perfectly played wolverine will still lose to a perfectly played sentinel most of the time. out of the tools that each character has, the tiers are defined, not "who plays them" or "this or that scenario".

the game is not that much more inbalanced than a lot of other fighters... wasn't one of the guilty gears a sol and eddie show? third strike sees the same three characters all day, and then sometimes you see three others, dudley, makoto, and urien. that's what, six out of nineteen? just under a third of the cast used, which is not that far off from marvel, with 14/56. i do count the characters that are only used for assists, because at least they're used. also, tekken 5.0 was a nina / steve show... so i wish people would stop making it sound as though marvel is a magneto / sentinel show.

[True Grave]

what one player does with low tiers does not define their placement. a perfectly played wolverine will still lose to a perfectly played sentinel most of the time. out of the tools that each character has, the tiers are defined, not "who plays them" or "this or that scenario".

I agree. This one thing in particular that annoys me is when someone states in defense of a character, "J.Wong plays him".

So what? From what i hear Justin Wong is a cut above the rest, in that he can take characters like dan that most players would never dare to use in a tournament setting, and somehow make him work well. That however, does not mean Dan should jump up a few tier-levels.

[Mixah]

justin wong ocv'd me with hulk / silversamurai / collosus.

[True Grave]

justin wong ocv'd me with hulk / silversamurai / collosus.

Hulk's low tier, but Samurai & Colossus are pretty good.

[Mixah]

he beat me with only hulk. didn't even use assists... i couldn't get a hit on him, no matter what i did.

[UnknownEnemyZero]

I've seen Zaza do some good against MikeZ in a few casual videos with MM/Hulk/Cyke. I'm pretty sure MikeZ show cased a few 100% with Storm/Hulk in his combo videos.

[Mixah]

I've seen Zaza do some good against MikeZ in a few casual videos with MM/Hulk/Cyke. I'm pretty sure MikeZ show cased a few 100% with Storm/Hulk in his combo videos.

and this is exactly what i was saying about how well a certain player does has no effect on the tiers.

[Tigerboi]

he beat me with only hulk. didn't even use assists... i couldn't get a hit on him, no matter what i did.

bwuhbwuhbwuhbwuh!

Hulk + wavedash = BEASTLY.

How exactly did the match go? What team did you pick and how did he fight it?

[RedSilverAnakris]

the only character i would be surprised that would actually win is roll.

[Tigerboi]

Honestly, Marvel has very little TERRIBLE characters in it. I find most (about 98%) of the cast at least decent.

[Mixah]

bwuhbwuhbwuhbwuh!

Hulk + wavedash = BEASTLY.

How exactly did the match go? What team did you pick and how did he fight it?

OK, i was running MSP... begining of the match, i snap colossus out for hulk, thinking that his colossus might be easier without any assists... i guard break hulk, fuck up the rom, and that was the last hit i got...

no matter what i did to tri-jump, he blocked EVERYTHING, teched EVERY THROW. it's almost like he read me like a book. a friend of mine, remix1213, told me to beat wong you must define "random".

anyway, after he blocked about six different attacks in under 2 seconds, he does some random ass air combo that makes him swap places with me, so i'm in the corner now. he does another combo, resets, bye bye magneto... guard breaks storm with some late jumping attack, i get hit with the meteor crush... i'm tri jumping him now, and nothing... so i'm just doing hailstorms now, keeping away and whatnot... i have no meter, he has about 45% life, and i'm running to build some... i crossed him up to try to get an hp>hk on him, because i can finish his hulk from here if i get a good clean jumping hp. as soon as i cross him up, i'm about to go in, so i switched stick directions... no sooner than i switched, i get hit with another meteor... bye bye storm.... psylocke comes in, and i'm doing some random u+hk shit and instant overheads with that, trying to get a hit, attempting throws... nothing... i chip him a little with a random qcf+pp, and he pushblock cancels out and i get thrown.... at this point, i'm just so frustrated, that i'm going all offensive just to kill his hulk, and through my frustration, i didn't block anything... thus i lost.

[Tigerboi]

Have You Not Been Reading World War Hulk!? You Should Have Known!....


......You know, this game is more defense than anything. And, gay chipping traps aside, any character can win with a good defense. Hmm.

[beatsofdevil]

no matter what i did to tri-jump, he blocked EVERYTHING, teched EVERY THROW. it's almost like he read me like a book. a friend of mine, remix1213, told me to beat wong you must define "random".one of the players here, who really is not that good, doesn't know a lot of combos/mixups/resets etc. bad defense and shit...but he plays the MOST RANDOM santhrax ever...and he was THIS close to beating Wong...

seriously his santhrax is sorta scrubby, he can't do any advanced shit...but sometimes that pure randomness of his will beat even the better players.

[Mixah]

that's the truth.

i've won 3S matches with random supers.. lol

[beatsofdevil]

I've won Guilty Gear rounds with random supers XD

or whatever they're called....super mega overdrive limits

[Ephidel]

i think everyone in mvc2 are good if you play them right, specially with the right assits buddies. some characters just require less effort is all thus why those characters are used more.

people who don't learn and complain about imba are scrubs to me.
or should i say don't truly try to play and learn?

Well, there are other fighters out there.:smile:

[sealhunta]

its just like with poker, if ur an expert player, u build ur strategy on ur opponent trying to make the best decision, but if ur opponent is whack then he might pick a bad decision but since u didnt expect him to do that he just shook u.

in a particular circumstance u would bluff xpecting ur opponent to fold but since ur opponent is whack he calls and then gets lucky.

[beatsofdevil]

yes

it sucks...if you over or under estimate your opponent you could get screwed!

X[

[Radiant93]

lol... overestimating really can get you screwed.

[UnknownEnemyZero]

and this is exactly what i was saying about how well a certain player does has no effect on the tiers.

I was not saying that to tier placement for Hulk, I was saying that there are other players taking Hulk and putting him to good use, not just JWong.

[nGuman]

Well I own the PS2 version of the game, and I love watching anyone who plays infact I joined because I love fighting games and this was the perfect place. However after pondering and looking at MvC2 clips, it truly isn't balanced and Hulk is a little too fast for a heavy hitter.

[Biolink]

Capcom did the Marvel characters too much justice...

Also is anyone else a little disturbed at the fact that Justin Wong can beat High Tier characters using a bad team.That's a whole lot of distance in skill,and it's kind of scary to tell you the truth.

[Green]

Capcom did the Marvel characters too much justice...
Uh, you do know the cast of Marvel, right? If anything, they're being shortchanged.

[Tigerboi]

I don't think Capcom thought about the balancing. If they would've made the top-tier characters that good on purpose, I doubt they would've chosen SENTINEL.

[Daigo Jr]

. Such a waste of creativity...











capcom don't care, they get money, they are happy

[RisunoMeijin]

I don't think Capcom thought about the balancing. If they would've made the top-tier characters that good on purpose, I doubt they would've chosen SENTINEL.

But sent has always been a beast. Most people in the books couldnt really fuck with sent(s).

[HeLGeN-X]

All I noticed is that almost all the Capcom characters are completely goofs. Look at Mega Man and Servbot, Roll, what the fuck, they look like queers. Sentinel alone looks more badass than half the entire Capcom line up.

[jaded]

bring back GWM (allow WM turn to GWM with use of 1 bar). That'd make for a hot assist.

bring back RV, too. Same thing.. allow Venom to convert to Red Venom using 1 meter. the assist might suck, but RV could clean up shop on point with assists to back him up.


If they put those 2 in, weakened top tier a bit, improved lower 48 cast a little bit (e.g., make jugg glitch strength to start, give chun li back her qcf+kk mid-air super), MvC2 Pro would be an EASY game for Capcom to make, and it would be even more addictive than MvC2 is right now.

But instead, capcom makes CvS Pro, which half of the people on SRK probably don't even know exists.

all cuz of the stupid marvel license.. :sigh:

[RisunoMeijin]

one of the best things about this game is that there will never be an mvc2 pro.