The OTHER scapegoat: Hip Hop

[debs]

Oprah's segments on hip hop:

http://www.realtalkny.net/2007/04/topic/topic/news/oprah-discusses-hip-hop-with-russell-simmons-common-kevin-lyles-dr-ben-chavez/

lemme just say that i know there is a rap news and reviews thread but i wanted to see/read the opinions of ppl that don't post in there...i wanted to know what do you guys think about hip hop, the degradation of women, the misogyny, re enforcement of stereotypes, etc. and do you think its to blame for...well, whatever oprah and crew seem to be blaming hip hop for.

being that i think the problem is bigger than the hip hop community, i wanted to post this thread and these links outside of the current rap thread to get a broader opinion.

**PLEASE watch the vids in the link above before you comment, unless you've seen oprah in the past two days. thx**

discuss.
/million

seems the vids aren't loading fast on realtalkny, so:

http://videos.onsmash.com/v/St6eQBWvB4cBIjLu

[GeoG2]

LOL @ Oprah.

She learned the hard way. Nobody fuckin' cuts Russell off. No one.

[debs]

knowing youtube and especially because these vids deal with oprah, i'm gonna say that they must have been taken off of youtube. then again, youtube seems to be going extra slow to me.

kevin liles got heated for a sec. i hope you guys watch the vids on onsmash...

[gg no re]

Cam'ron: You need to have parent-teacher conferences with your students.

[Biolink]

Our teacher made us watch a bit of this yesterday in class.

My opinion is that nobody is forcing these women to be in these video's.If you want to stop being degraded then get an education so you want have to shake your ass just to pay rent.

[Goose]

Yo' it's all music, just cause some people don't like it don't mean it's not to keep. You like Yanni? Then sing it. If you don't like it, don't listen.

[debs]

ok the vids are back up. the links on realtalkny are better because they show both days.

anyway, i'm not understanding why the blame for what imus said is being put on hip hop and why the degradation of black women (or women in general) is solely being put on hip hop? the content in rap music is a reflection of society. there were bitches and ho's and niggas BEFORE 1979. attack the reason as to why these ppl feel the need to say what they say in lyrics and have videos with women that get paid to shake their ass. why do women refer to themselves as a bad bitch or a ho? why do women make up a good percentage of the ppl that buy hip hop?

why do we blame hip hop for poverty, inequality and the like that lead to ppl saying the stuff that they do?

[Storming Flower]

I saw the show, rusell was talking about poverty at one point, going on about how hip hop reflects society. To which oprah asked are we supposed to solve poverty before there can be a change in hip hop? The black women interviewed acknowledge the problem and don't buy the records. In the end the four men did acknowledge there IS a problem. Common also said hip hop took a turn. (I think referring to the gangster rap west coast era)

I do agree and like a lot of the stuff kevin liles said.

[GeoG2]

The vid is still there, it's just slow.

I didn't care for points from either side.

They used footage from Nelly's Tipdrill video as an example. Those broads in the video were strippers... so they didn't give a damn anyway. It wasn't something the mainstream public got to see often on TV. You basically got to see it 3am on BET or on the net. I'm tired of the subject of degradation of women coming up, and they always want to use examples like that. You can't use a seldom seen video with moral-less strippers as an example, because it's a poor representation of the videos that are generally out. The daytime videos aren't close to Nelly's shit.

These old birds don't understand the mindframe of the current generation. They claim women have to say no, but no one says no to a paycheck. This is a society bursting with sexual freedom and expression... and if it pays, no one is going to say no.

The rap sells cause of what is being said, the broads get jobs because the rap sells, and instead of understanding this is a mindframe associated with the male ego and not developed through music, they go out and bash a culture and make it seem like the target of origin.

[debs]

I saw the show, rusell was talking about poverty at one point, going on about how hip hop reflects society. To which oprah asked are we supposed to solve poverty before there can be a change in hip hop? The black women interviewed acknowledge the problem and don't buy the records. In the end the four men did acknowledge there IS a problem. Common also said hip hop took a turn. (I think referring to the gangster rap west coast era)

so how can you mute somebody that is a product of poverty and not attack poverty first? i'm trying to figure this one out.

if ppl weren't going through the socio-economic conditions that they were, they wouldn't write about the stuff they're writing about. why does society glorify the struggle, anyway?

[Storming Flower]

That's a good question that will probably be asked in many discussions about this topic wherever it exists. Can't answer it. Both sides have great points in my opinion, so dialogue is important. I like what oprah said in the 2nd day though. "We've been engaged in dialogue but then what?"

I don't think hip hop will take a new direction anytime soon. I do think it's hilarious though that Rusell and Oprah are both talking about misogyny and the degradation of women in America that exists in real life.

Even though it exists, women have more rights in America than in any other country in the world.

[DieDeadDeath]

oprah is really annoying.

[debs]

The vid is still there, it's just slow.

I didn't care for points from either side.

They used footage from Nelly's Tipdrill video as an example. Those broads in the video were strippers... so they didn't give a damn anyway. It wasn't something the mainstream public got to see often on TV. You basically got to see it 3am on BET or on the net. I'm tired of the subject of degradation of women coming up, and they always want to use examples like that. You can't use a seldom seen video with moral-less strippers as an example, because it's a poor representation of the videos that are generally out. The daytime videos aren't close to Nelly's shit.

These old birds don't understand the mindframe of the current generation. They claim women have to say no, but no one says no to a paycheck. This is a society bursting with sexual freedom and expression... and if it pays, no one is going to say no.

The rap sells cause of what is being said, the broads get jobs because the rap sells, and instead of understanding this is a mindframe associated with the male ego and not developed through music, they go out and bash a culture and make it seem like the target of origin.
i felt like the ppl that they had on the show that were "defending" hip hop weren't articulate enough to get their points across. i also felt that on the other side of the debate, the ppl downing hip hop weren't qualified to speak on it. how can you talk about something you don't listen to? how can these established figures possibly relate to somebody that comes from a broken home, possibly did illegal activity (ies) to get by in life and got LUCKY enough to get a deal to get out of that environment? many of the ppl on the other side of the aisle haven't had to live like that in 30+ years.

why the FUCK did oprah walk it out and shit on the last show and then all of a sudden goes into a hip hop bashing debate? why the fuck is 80 year old maya angelou, no disrespect, commenting on hip hop? wtf was that guy comparing the ku klux klan to rappers for?


why was nelly's tip drill video shown, like its the norm? does oprah not realize that her target audience does NOT (more than likely, i'm generalizing and guessing here) listen to hip hop or watch hip hop videos, so they're going to see that and think that thats the norm????

when's the last time nelly had a video anyway? i don't think i've seen a single video on these news programs from the last 5 years. cosign everything you said in this post though.

Both sides have great points in my opinion, so dialogue is important.
i wish the side "defending" hip hop could have been more articulate and i also wish that they would have had a real chance to share their views without the audience and the women at spellman being so quick to boo them.

also, why were there no female rappers on the panel? eve? kim? foxy? old heads like latifah, salt n peppa's fine asses, lyte?

where were some of these video vixens as they like to be called now?

[CrouchingTiger]

Well, my comment on the first vid. They're talkin about how the women are being called ho's because some men "saw it in a video and maybe thought it was alright." That's a parenting problem, or just how they were brought up.

Now they also mentioned it happening out of the country, and someone called them a ho thinking it was a compliment. Now that's different, and somewhat funny heh. Obviously there's a cultural/nationality barrier there, and you can't really blame someone from another country for mixing something up by mistake.

Back to the upbringing; if they then say "well the parenting and upbringing is poor due to poverty and projects and trailer parks etc" so you can't blame them for the cards they were dealt in life. That's true, maybe you can't. But you also can't blame rap music. If someone fails to be raised successfully, there are any number of bad places someone could turn to in order to learn life's lessons. If a kid turns to hip hop, I dunno, who's fault is it? Not hip hop's.

And I'm white, but I listen to a lot of hip hop cuz I just like it. I don't go out and do the things I hear rappers sing about. I don't even comprehend some of it, and doubt that they do half of what they sing about either. I assume rappers, at first perhaps, are in it to get their voice out and make their impact on the industry. Like any other area of the music industry. But after an album or two and they've accomplished that, then it's just about giving the customers what they want. Album sales will dictate the direction of all/most artists. If an album doesn't sell well, they've got to assume their fans prefer something different, and they'll try to give it to them. Music is their profession, they're in it to make $$$$. Likely for other reasons as well, but I'm sayin obviously they are going to lean towards venues that generate the most money.

[True Grave]

Our teacher made us watch a bit of this yesterday in class.

My opinion is that nobody is forcing these women to be in these video's.If you want to stop being degraded then get an education so you want have to shake your ass just to pay rent.

Yeah it all goes back to the women themselves. They choose to do that, nobody forces them. They probably love what they do as well because it gets them $$$$.

[Wellman]

Honestly if Hip Hop or Rap music, alone , has influenced you to become a pimp or gangster more than the environment you live in, then you're a dumbass.

As for the lyrical debate, fuck all that. How about movies like Hostel and Saw? Or any film that had a woman getting mistreated, exploited or insulted?

Honestly, while some rappers (usually fools that don't have nothing to talk about) do constantly talk down and degrade women, it ain't everyone and if it was then why would do so many women love hip-hop and r&b?

Women can and are freaks as well as men are.

[CrouchingTiger]

Yeah it all goes back to the women themselves. They choose to do that, nobody forces them. They probably love what they do as well because it gets them $$$$.

^ Yep, agreed.

[Sexperienced.]

i
wtf was that guy comparing the ku klux klan to rappers for?



because rappers like fitty constantly talk about "killing *******".

[mags]

I agree that hip-hop is in a fucked up state right now with the objectification of women and reinforcement of black stereotypes, but I just want to point out that it's really POP music to blame. Whether white record execs force artists to say this stupid shit or the artists choose to because there's money potential, either way it's the not the whole genre to blame, just the mainstream idiots (mostly) who are out to get those $$$$, like geo said.

There is still a TON of good vibe, artistic, positive message hip-hop being made today, but for some reason it doesn't sell worth shit. Maybe white America loves to buy records that enforce black stereotypes because it makes them feel comfortable?

Anyway, whenever this shit comes up I like to point out that the degradation of women has existed in pop music for a long time now. Look at shitty 80's metal bands like KISS and how their videos portray women, same shit.

[Rhythm1c]

Gangsta rap is a symptom of the larger problem in the black community.


Amazing people are actually trying to blame "hiphop" for what imus said.
Just amazing.

[CrouchingTiger]

As that teacher said... it's the parents' jobs to raise their children. That's basically the answer to all these scapegoats. You can't blame tv, guns, games, rap, movies, media, or whatever else they try to blame. Sure these things can be influencial, but something has to separate the people who act out on the things they see/hear, and the people who know it's just entertainment. How they were raised; that's what separates them.

[mags]

Yo' it's all music, just cause some people don't like it don't mean it's not to keep. You like Yanni? Then sing it. If you don't like it, don't listen.

True, but some of this shit is being played on TV and radio and the internet so often it is tough to avoid. And then they have an excuse to bitch about their kids being 'corrupted' by it! Even though that's just bad parenting.

Edit: Crouchingtiger ninja-stole that answer.

[The Epidemic]

Anyway, whenever this shit comes up I like to point out that the degradation of women has existed in pop music for a long time now. Look at shitty 80's metal bands like KISS and how their videos portray women, same shit.

qft...anyway there was really no hope for team russell....going on a show full of estrogen, talking about degradation of women..doesnt sound all that fair to me...also those spelman broads be the same chicks dancing in the bar/club while snoop, 50 or any other rap artist is bein played...

[GeoG2]

i felt like the ppl that they had on the show that were "defending" hip hop weren't articulate enough to get their points across. i also felt that on the other side of the debate, the ppl downing hip hop weren't qualified to speak on it. how can you talk about something you don't listen to? how can these established figures possibly relate to somebody that comes from a broken home, possibly did illegal activity (ies) to get by in life and got LUCKY enough to get a deal to get out of that environment? many of the ppl on the other side of the aisle haven't had to live like that in 30+ years.

I agree about the people they had on the show not getting their points across.

All those people tripped up trying to be politically correct and the shit sounded horrible.

They needed some younger heads who are outside the industry, are intelligent enough to think outside the box and see things for what they are, and also be bluntly honest.

The poverty thing is insanely irrelevant to me. You can be from the bottom, and still have respect for women. It's all about how you're raised and your life experiences. A lot of dudes in rap are articulate and intelligent when they step outside of the booth... they can't pin poverty and poor upbringing on that shit.

[platinum_pinoy]

It's not hip-hop that should be questioned, it's rap music.

[debs]

because rappers like fitty constantly talk about "killing *******".

talking about killing ppl and actually terrorizing ppl and doing it are two different things. i just want to post some posts that i saw on another site:


bitch was just takin shots at the music and culture

she had Russell and them niggas on stage on display like they was bout to be executed

she needa have some young males on her show but she don't wanna hear that she don't want the realness

Oprah is out of touch and so is her audience, they'll never understand and honestly i don't want them to

shit ain't for them



that HO didn't even let russ/kev/com/ben finish their fuckin statements, and everything the "panelists" would say something she applauds and has that dumb smile or her face. i wanted to jump through the screen
**ms. tasty cake is a female, by the way. she's fine as hell too.


Oprah is the perfect example of a House ******.

She knows the truth out here... but she'll close the curtains and pretend shit is all good to make white people feel better about themselves.




Theres 20million+ black people in America and most of em are broke... who wouldnt take a million dollars to say a few words over the television that people are gonna forget in a few years anyway??

The bigger problem is WHY DO THE CORPORATIONS WANT TO SEE ONLY BLACKS ACTING LIKE FOOLS ON TV?... there's many mexicans and chinese and indians why dont they offer them this once in a lifetime opportunity>??

1% or more of any race would take this offer....

You cant blame black people we are human like everyone else



Everyone is mostly "broke" when you compare it to millions of dollars...the median household income is like 35,000 dollars across the board in this country.

Americans love to see minorities make fun of themselves though...William Hung...a million mexican jokes and stereotypes...muhfuckas can't get enough of that racial humor. There's a white man caking behind every black-targeted product, show, entertainment, etc.


**i know these are a lil "extreme" for srk, but what do you guys here think about what they've said?

[Jumpsuit]

What really bothers me is all the talk about censorship.

[mags]

It's not hip-hop that should be questioned, it's rap music.

Is that a joke?

[Rhythm1c]

qft...anyway there was really no hope for team russell....going on a show full of estrogen, talking about degradation of women..doesnt sound all that fair to me...also those spelman broads be the same chicks dancing in the bar/club while snoop, 50 or any other rap artist is bein played...


Truth.
Not surprised she is using this as a platform to once again attack black males. Which is what this is really about.

[The Epidemic]

Is that a joke?

nah hes right....hip-hop is a lifestyle...its rap that should be questioned, not the hip-hop swagger...

[Rhythm1c]

Is that a joke?


Why would it be?
Rap is a sub-genre of Hip Hop.

That is something people really really really need to realize and I don't think people know that there is a difference. There are many parts of hip hop culture and rap/gansta rap is just part of it. Along with graffiti, Breakdancing, MCing and so forth.

[$|-|U(V)AYeL]

1. It's just music
2. It effects people negatively

Both are right... It really just depends on the person. I can enjoy Big L, Biggie Smalls, and other street gangsta rappers and think to myself hell yeah homie, they were in the struggle and I can feel their struggle... but think to myself naw, that shit ain't me. I am blessed to have a shelter, family education and opportunities to do more with my life.. then sell drugs, and shoot people.. It would just be plain ignorant and stupid for me to do such a thing...I need to do more with my life. They (rappers or people in the hood) sold drugs because they had to make a living, and their boys died (or they died) because everybody was out for their bread, respect, whatever.... money was number one priority so people got shot over it. You gotta get yours.. but I (Me,) was a part of a huge subculture within suburbans and even urban areas that is brainwashed from this... that subculture still exists today. You can call them wangstas, or whatever the fuck you want to classify them as. They are kids who have the house, have OPPORTUNITIES to get the fuck out of the shit they may be in.. but because they are confused children and don't have an identity, they idealize their favourite rappers... and SELL drugs, carry gats, wear bandanas in fucking SUBURBAN AREAS! I don't blame these kids, as most of their friends are doing this.. to be 'cool' you have to rock the freshest gear, newest kicks (bapes w/e) and people who are wearing thecool gear are the rappers.. they are the models for these young kids, and the young kids see these guys talking about this shit.. and the anger and confusion they have as growing adolesence is multiplied by the (possibly unintentional) hate within some rap. PARENTS need to get involved and tell their kids, yeah those people (rappers) talk liek that because of the way they were bruoght up.. we are LUCKY we don't have to go through that... not try to mimic it.

Rappers their whole lives try to escape the ghetto. How do they succeed? By selling the ghetto (in the form of CDs.) to kids who try to mimic what they are trying to escape.

P.S. Oprah is retarded.

Women being classified as ho's? Dumb. I think the problem is society itself.. girls are socialized and so are guys to think girls that want to have tons of sex are sluts.. that's the problem right there.. when you get mad at a girl, what do you call her? a slut... wrrrrrrong. Girls like sex as much as us if not more.. when you give a girl an orgasm and watch her freak out for 2340923408x longer then you.. you will know what i'm saying. It's just a matter of getting over that ignorant socialization we've gone through. :/ It's okay for women to have sex. If they choose to dress provactively or not is up to them as well. :D

P.S. Oprah is retarded.

If you want an example of what hip hop SHOULD be like download this track: Masta ace - beautiful

Personal opinion: Russel Simmons knows what the fuck he's saying. That bitch is dumb talking about peopel shuold lose their contracts.. that's censorship. You tink hiding your kids from problems is going to help them? You show them the problem, and tell them.. that is bad and why. Prevention is the way to go. It's just the fact is both parents these days are working so kids grow up on t.v... :/

Also, I live in the Greater Toronto Area.. one of the most multi-cultural areas in the world. And hell yes.. My best friends are white and black.. i'm fucking brown (pakistani descent) my bro has different coloured friends.. it doesn't matter, race shouldn't even be a fucking question anymore. to be PROUD or hate on a race is just sheer stupidity.. why would you be proud of something you had no choice in? or hat esomebody for something they had NO choice in? makes no sense

[mags]

nah hes right....hip-hop is a lifestyle...its rap that should be questioned, not the hip-hop swagger...

Oh I see, rap meaning a genre. He just said it way too generally. Rapping meaning emceeing is a part of hip-hop and not to blame.

Why would it be?
Rap is a sub-genre of Hip Hop.

That is something people really really really need to realize and I don't think people know that there is a difference. There are many parts of hip hop culture and rap/gansta rap is just part of it. Along with graffiti, Breakdancing, MCing and so forth.

Yes we all probably already know rap is one of the elements, and therefore, one of the parts of the culture. I think the confusion comes from whitey labeling all of hip-hop as just rap, so that gangsta rap and good shit like the Fugees all get pushed into one big lump and viewed negatively. Agreed.

[Sexperienced.]

talking about killing ppl and actually terrorizing ppl and doing it are two different things. i just want to post some posts that i saw on another site:


he doesnt talk about killing "people" he's very specific on the type of people he talks about. so its fine if someone talks about killing ******* (regardless of race) as long as they dont actually do it?

[debs]

he doesnt talk about killing "people" he's very specific on the type of people he talks about. so its fine if someone talks about killing ******* (regardless of race) as long as they dont actually do it?

i'm on the phone now, but honestly...i can't take your posts seriously. it just seems like you're using the topic as a reason to get away with using the word ******.
add that to you choosing to use the avatar that you use (looks like the mohammad depiction that that european newspaper had awhile back) and yeah...i'ma ignore your posts and continue talking on the phone.

[GeoG2]

Personal opinion: Russel Simmons knows what the fuck he's saying. That bitch is dumb talking about peopel shuold lose their contracts.. that's censorship. You tink hiding your kids from problems is going to help them? You show them the problem, and tell them.. that is bad and why. Prevention is the way to go. It's just the fact is both parents these days are working so kids grow up on t.v... :/

I was rolling on the floor laughing at that duck.

Take away contracts?! The fuck... is she serious?

If they don't go independent and sign their own checks, there will be 3 dudes who pop and take their place who would be rapping about the same shit. There are NON rap artists saying the same shit. The fuck was she on?

That's another problem... these old people swear they know WTF is up. They're not down for debates like this.

[debs]

oh, and:


WWPR (105.1 FM), one of two New York City radio stations that feature hip-hop music, said yesterday morning it's going to stop playing songs with degrading images.

"The station won't sound that different, because we weren't playing a lot of that anyway," said program director Helen Little. "What we're doing is holding labels and artists accountable for what they say and how they say it.

"We want our listeners to know that whatever they hear here, we thought about it."

Little went on the air yesterday morning with Ed Lover, Egypt and Donnell Rawlins, music director Nadine Santos and guests who included activists Kevin Powell and the Rev. Al Sharpton.

This "town meeting" was designed to involve listeners in a discussion of content issues surrounding hip hop and radio.

The discussion came as some critics, including Sharpton, who pushed for last week's firing of WFAN's Imus, vowed to turn their attention to negative images and lyrics in hip-hop music.

Lover and Little said, however, that Power had been having this discussion for some time, and Santos, among others, cautioned against linking Imus' comment about the Rutgers women's basketball team with hip hop.

"Let's not get it twisted," she said. "This isn't what hip hop is about. What Imus said has nothing to do with hip hop."

There was also discussion over whether some listeners want more graphic lyrics. Little said they may, and that's fine.

"We're not saying you can't make this music," she said. "Just we won't play it.

"Our intention is to encourage people not to talk this way anymore."
http://www.nydailynews.com/

[platinum_pinoy]

Is that a joke?

Like everyone said, it's not. A shitload of people don't know what the difference is and it bothers me whenever someone equates the garbage you hear on the radio as "hip-hop". Rap used to be good until it got ridiculously commercialized (it was before, but not as bad as it is now). It's really not what a hip-hop head wants anymore, it's whatever labels want, which is, whatever makes money.

Hip-hop is an art and a lifestyle. Rap is a business and a cash cow.

A friend showed me this link and thought it might apply to the whole "Industry vs. Artistry" argument.

http://www.beforethemusicdies.com/

[maxx]

oprah doesnt understand hip-hop is not soley rap...hip-hop is the bigger picture of the whole.

1.graff
2.rapping
3.djinjg
4.bboying

these make up the elements of hip hop..but she has forgotten and the mainstream don't acknowledge the other elements..they see hip-hop and rap as the same.

[spudlyff8fan]

There are two problems that make rap something deserving of scrutiny (not banning).

1) It very obviously is advertised to kids.

How many mature people actually listen to gangster rap? Let's compare rap to the Grateful Dead. We all know that the Grateful Dead were about blazin' and shootin' (heroin). Why did the Grateful Dead's popularity immediately drop down into nothingness during the 80s? Because as soon as their fan base grew up, they just lost their appeal. The same goes for rap. A reasonable individual hits 25 and the whole appeal of rap is lost on them. The difference is that rap is supplementing their lost fans with the newest generation of kids.

Yeah, kids shouldn't listen to rap. Yeah, their parents should take away their CDs if it's not appropriate. But you can say the same thing about Camel Cigs putting out, say, Super Mario Cigars. Yeah, the kids shouldn't be smoking them and their parents should stop them, but that doesn't change the fact that Camel is directly pursuing kids which is wrong. Same goes for the rap industry.

2) Rappers are lying pussies.

You all know it's true. You see rappers saying that rap is ACTUALLY about working your way up the social ladder, but we all know that's bull. Because really, how does almost anybody work their way up the social ladder? Going through school and getting a good job. And when was the last song from 50 Cent about making sure to study extra-hard to make sure you memorize how sine equals cosine over two minus theta for your trig final? When was the last Snoop song about recurring themes in Faust, Death of a Salesman and Hamlet? God knows that those would be more likely to help somebody work their way up the social ladder moreso than a song about being a pimp. Rap's about advocating bad behavior. And it's comical that people would try and say otherwise.

[Sexperienced.]

i'm on the phone now, but honestly...i can't take your posts seriously. it just seems like you're using the topic as a reason to get away with using the word ******.
add that to you choosing to use the avatar that you use (looks like the mohammad depiction that that european newspaper had awhile back) and yeah...i'ma ignore your posts and continue talking on the phone.

why cant i use the word ******? i'm trying to prove a point here and dont change the subject, there wasnt a single european newspaper that used the mohammad pic in my av.

[maxx]

spudlyff8fan: youth is a target audience but its not thee target audience. Alot of mature adults listen to gangster rap... alot. because they grew up on it. Most people who around in the early 30's and up were around when gangster rap came up. So thats sumtin they know. gangster rap is not something that came up with the kids these days..their are only really 2 mainstream gangster rappers 50 and the game.

[The Epidemic]

There are two problems that make rap something deserving of scrutiny (not banning).

1) It very obviously is advertised to kids.

How many mature people actually listen to gangster rap? Let's compare rap to the Grateful Dead. We all know that the Grateful Dead were about blazin' and shootin' (heroin). Why did the Grateful Dead's popularity immediately drop down into nothingness during the 80s? Because as soon as their fan base grew up, they just lost their appeal. The same goes for rap. A reasonable individual hits 25 and the whole appeal of rap is lost on them. The difference is that rap is supplementing their lost fans with the newest generation of kids.

Yeah, kids shouldn't listen to rap. Yeah, their parents should take away their CDs if it's not appropriate. But you can say the same thing about Camel Cigs putting out, say, Super Mario Cigars. Yeah, the kids shouldn't be smoking them and their parents should stop them, but that doesn't change the fact that Camel is directly pursuing kids which is wrong. Same goes for the rap industry.

2) Rappers are lying pussies.

You all know it's true. You see rappers saying that rap is ACTUALLY about working your way up the social ladder, but we all know that's bull. Because really, how does almost anybody work their way up the social ladder? Going through school and getting a good job. And when was the last song from 50 Cent about making sure to study extra-hard to make sure you memorize how sine equals cosine over two minus theta for your trig final? When was the last Snoop song about recurring themes in Faust, Death of a Salesman and Hamlet? God knows that those would be more likely to help somebody work their way up the social ladder moreso than a song about being a pimp. Rap's about advocating bad behavior. And it's comical that people would try and say otherwise.

wow...i dont really feel like taking ur theory apart right now....some of ur statments are true but, u do realize that there are different genres within rap music itself right?

-also u saying adults dont listen to "gangsta rap" is prolly one of the dumbest things ive read on srk..

[Biolink]

Also who is to say that these women don't like what is happening.Some women are video vixens to support themselves.

ALOT of them are doing it just so they can fuck the rappers.

When you have hype beasts that are full of shit,and women that are willing to follow them around hoping that he fucks her and gets her pregnant or he marries her,that creates a big problem.It is feeding into rapper's ego.

Another question though.

Who is the bigger fool?

The fool himself,or the fool who follows?

Seriously,they should stop pointing all of the blame at rappers like women are fucking sacred angels that are capable of no wrong.Women like to whore themselves out for sex just like men do.

[maxx]

i never understand why anti rap people never talk about how these women can easily find another job.

its basically the sports and black people syndrom...their taught growing up they have to use the skills they have. cause their not too smart so they tell black kids u got 2 options esentially rap or get a good jump shot. so they dont focus on school and give up early and focus their energy on rapping or sports.

same with minority girls...their led to believe use ur body to get wut u want and so we end up with the situation we got.

its not raps fault its the people who brought them up's fault.

[spudlyff8fan]

spudlyff8fan: youth is a target audience but its not thee target audience.Like my earlier analogy. If Camel started targetting kids, would that be any better? They wouldn't EXCLUSIVELY target kids. But that wouldn't make it any better.

Alot of mature adults listen to gangster rap... alot. Apparently they're not all that mature. Can you picture yourself listening to gangster rap at age 50?

wow...i dont really feel like taking ur theory apart right now....some of ur statments are true but, u do realize that there are different genres within rap music itself right?
I'm more than willing to state that I was deliberately being general and merely speaking in a perceptive manner.
-also u saying adults dont listen to "gangsta rap" is prolly one of the dumbest things ive read on srk..I said MATURE adults. I know legions of 18-23 year olds who listen to "gangsta" rap.

[GeoG2]

Women are trying to hide behind double standards, but behind the hoopla, it really goes to show you how women are so bogus, they can't even figure out themselves. You can't front like a change must happen and that every female is offended, when there are broads calling THEMSELVES bitches and hos. You can't front like these same bitches don't become video vixens and tell magazines shit like, "I'm doing it for the exposure and money." They WANT to do it... they don't care.

It's really sad when you stop and think about it. You got broads advocating a pause to the degradation of black women, and then you got women who straight up don't even give a fuck and use it as a hustle.

Point is, you can't tell people what they can do and what they should be, because everyone has a different mindset on things like this.

And those politically correct dudes are full of shit. Especially that Stanley Crouch guy. Let me find out this dude was a diehard fan of BET Uncut. You know a lot of these people are two-faced and put up a front for the public, but turnaround and be on the shit they talk down on.

[maxx]

spudlyff8fan: i know 40-60 year old mature adults who listen to gangster rap...u make it sound like the music is specifically made for an age group...when that first came out it wasnt for a single age group but for people of a certain situation as i saw it.

u need to stop saying mature people dont listen to it..they do..just cause u don't know any doesn't mean they don't exist. and telling me their not mature, the people i know will only show you as ignorant.

[spudlyff8fan]

Well that certainly showed me.

And you think that music ISN'T made to target a specific age group?!

[The Epidemic]

Well that certainly showed me.

And you think that music ISN'T made to target a specific age group?!

its not...besides kids bop and disney albums...and pa albums

[maxx]

Well that certainly showed me.

And you think that music ISN'T made to target a specific age group?!

certain music can. but it can also be targeted for a certain area. How would explain 50 cent when he was on the underground? ur gonna tell me he was targeting kids when he was doing 18+ clubs and doing gangsta rap in areas where kids didnt hear?

[spudlyff8fan]

No, but kids are typically only aware of the mainstream. But you simply can't deny that marketers push certain singers or rappers on certain demographics.

And the biggest demographic is age.

[maxx]

No, but kids are typically only aware of the mainstream. But you simply can't deny that marketers push certain singers or rappers on certain demographics.

And the biggest demographic is age.

u specifically said gangster rap.

their are only 2 current gangster rappers in the mainstream


50 and the game.

[hubcapsignstop]

im just going topick a few posts:

Well, my comment on the first vid. They're talkin about how the women are being called ho's because some men "saw it in a video and maybe thought it was alright." That's a parenting problem, or just how they were brought up.

Now they also mentioned it happening out of the country, and someone called them a ho thinking it was a compliment. Now that's different, and somewhat funny heh. Obviously there's a cultural/nationality barrier there, and you can't really blame someone from another country for mixing something up by mistake.

Back to the upbringing; if they then say "well the parenting and upbringing is poor due to poverty and projects and trailer parks etc" so you can't blame them for the cards they were dealt in life. That's true, maybe you can't. But you also can't blame rap music. If someone fails to be raised successfully, there are any number of bad places someone could turn to in order to learn life's lessons. If a kid turns to hip hop, I dunno, who's fault is it? Not hip hop's.nobody is saying thst it is hip hops fault for little kids looking up to it for examlpes. WHat people are saying is that the examples themselves that mainstream hiphop provides are largely unacceptable by their standards. I happen to agree with that.
I also happen to agree with your point that kids not being brought up in a stable family unit/poor parenting is a huge part of the blame. But the pop culture images that impressionabl kids in the neighborhood get bobarded with ARE having a ddestructive effect on the community. In poor neighborhoods the community itself is often what raises the childeren, due to a large amount of single mothers struggling, etc.. (and how do you think objectifying women as sexual objects in pop culture effects the propegation of broken family units? ...and so on)

Honestly if Hip Hop or Rap music, alone , has influenced you to become a pimp or gangster more than the environment you live in, then you're a dumbass. or you are a young impressionable kid who is a blank slate wondering how to best make life work for you.

As for the lyrical debate, fuck all that. How about movies like Hostel and Saw? Or any film that had a woman getting mistreated, exploited or insulted? big difference. Movies are stories portrayed by actors, who ACT out their interpretation of a fictional character/events. While mainstream rap is infested by artists who are REAL m*thef*kaz that emulate and glorify self destructive behavoir. WHen rapper x raps about killing heads or banging hoes, it often not some fictional character, it is in fact rapper X (role model to underpriveledged kids everywhere) who is portrayed as killing heads and banging hoes himself.

Amazing people are actually trying to blame "hiphop" for what imus said.
Just amazing.whats amazing is that people are denying hiphop's responsibilty
let me tell a story about my father (white):
he doesnt like me listening to hiphop. In fact he hates me listening to it because all he knows of it is what he hears on the radio or sees flipping through the tv. And when im using his stereo to dub some cassettes for myself (yeah i got a tapedeck in my car what), he will shake his head in disgust and then proceed to tell me that this noise is garbage not music. And then he will do his old-white-man-acting-black impression and say: "yeah, yeah, Im a nigga from the hood, in the hood, i gots ma hoes in area codes, bitch ass niggga...". then he will proceed to yell at me on how he dint raise me to be like that blah, blah before stomping away in disgust/dissapointment...
my point is:
If it were not for mainstream rap, these words would not be in my father's (or any old white men's) vocabularies. Now this probably similar to what Imus was trying to do (however whilst being funny and ultimately failing) talking old-white-man-hiphop-language about some random b-ball team. Theose words dont really mean anything to old white people becuase they hear that shit in pop rap. Its how they think most young black people talk (i guess it doesnt help that my family used to live in a very bad neighborhoood and the stereotypes prevalent in the worst of mainstream rap were right on our doorstep). You dissagree?
Take away contracts?! The fuck... is she serious?

If they don't go independent and sign their own checks, there will be 3 dudes who pop and take their place who would be rapping about the same shit. There are NON rap artists saying the same shit. The fuck was she on?

That's another problem... these old people swear they know WTF is up. They're not down for debates like this.are you down for debates like this? becuase you missed her point
which was that the record labels should be held responsible.

[GeoG2]

are you down for debates like this? becuase you missed her point
which was that the record labels should be held responsible.

No, her point wasn't labels should be held responsible. Missed me with that "trying to use my words against me" shit.

She specifically targeted a rapper like Snoop, trying to create a ridiculous comparison to Imus, stating people should be held responsible for their words and that, like Imus, consequences in the form of contract expiration/firing should occur. Didn't have shit at all to do with record labels' responsibility but the rappers themselves and what they say. Pay attention.

MY point was that HER point was retarded. Actually, she had no point. She was just trying to play censor blanket.

[spudlyff8fan]

u specifically said gangster rap.

their are only 2 current gangster rappers in the mainstream


50 and the game.

I repeat. I was speaking generally.

And I think you're underestimating gangster rap.

[hubcapsignstop]

No, her point wasn't labels should be held responsible. Missed me with that "trying to use my words against me" shit.

She specifically targeted a rapper like Snoop, trying to create a ridiculous comparison to Imus, stating people should be held responsible for their words and that, like Imus, consequences in the form of contract expiration/firing should occur. Didn't have shit at all to do with record labels' responsibility but the rappers themselves and what they say. Pay attention.

MY point was that HER point was retarded. Actually, she had no point. She was just trying to play censor blanket.
read between the lines:
her point was that the record labels should be held responsible for giving these people contracts. She said that rappers (ie; snoop) who put out these types of images should not have the privledge of having a major label contract. So she was saying the buck should stop at the record label and that would solve things (in other words the labels are responsible)

and then you come in and say:
"well if they took his contract away, there would be at least 3 other people who rap about the same thing ready to take his place".
that doesnt make any sense reguarding her point, since what she was trying to say was these type of rappers dont deserve and shouldnt be granted the contracts from major record labels in the first place (meanwhile take snoops away) -and i dont think the comparison to Imus was ridiculous.

I called you out becuase you said these 'old people' werent even qualified to enter this debate based on their arguements, but that sounded really foolish since based on what you said it seemed you didnt even grasp her arguement.

[Wellman]

Opera gets dumb whenever hip hop is involved. But so do a lot of 'mature' people.

People get so blinded by the negative they miss the positive and the fact that it is just freaking music. Not a guidebook to living your life.

[colguile]

Is no one willing to take responsibility for their actions anymore? What about the women in the videos? They aren't helpless victims who are forced to do this. Jesus christ, how stupid can some people be to blame hip hop for female degradation?

[GeoG2]

read between the lines:
her point was that the record labels should be held responsible for giving these people contracts. She said that rappers (ie; snoop) who put out these types of images should not have the privledge of having a major label contract. So she was saying the buck should stop at the record label and that would solve things (in other words the labels are responsible)

and then you come in and say:
"well if they took his contract away, there would be at least 3 other people who rap about the same thing ready to take his place".
that doesnt make any sense reguarding her point, since what she was trying to say was these type of rappers dont deserve and shouldnt be granted the contracts from major record labels in the first place (meanwhile take snoops away) -and i dont think the comparison to Imus was ridiculous.

I called you out becuase you said these 'old people' werent even qualified to enter this debate based on their arguements, but that sounded really foolish since based on what you said it seemed you didnt even grasp her arguement.

You're here putting words in her mouth in order to pretend you made a point. You realize that right?

What I said made absolute sense in regards to what she was saying. Take away/invalidate one contract, 3 people take that person's place, totally making the suggestion itself pointless, and making her points even more worthless since there would be no positive outcome. It isn't hard to grasp, yet you missed it.

Don't "call me out" if you take my post out of context, claiming one to not grasp an argument, but yet totally not even grasping that person's post. It was directed at her suggestion about expiring contracts and nothing more. You can "read between the lines" and create faulty implications of what you think she was talking about if you want to. But I was talking about something else.

[BKB]

nah hes right....hip-hop is a lifestyle...its rap that should be questioned, not the hip-hop swagger...

Please enlighten me on this lifestyle... What is the philosophy of hip-hop?

[hubcapsignstop]

...
do you think she wanted snoop's contract invalidated just becuase she didnt like snoop?
no
it was because she felt that the image/etc he was putting out was harmful.
based on the hypothetical precedent of snoops contract being invalidated why should the next artist who comes along and raps about the same thing, be given a pass? Do you think she just wanted snoop out problem solved? no, she want the record labels to be held responsible, snoop was probably just the only relevant example she could think of at the time.

[evilj]

My post does not have a central point but I think I have interesting comments. I'm posting from my Wii so bear with me.
One can say that blaming hip hop for imus comments is absurb but one cannot deny that the images and the dialect portrayed in rap videos affects the white man's perception of black people and what is appropriate or not appropriate to say.
Hip hop or rap fans can say that hip hop reflects reality but the opposite is also true in that reality reflects or aspires to be like what they see in mainstream music culture. Kids or artists who watch Mtv (the reality) will imitate the behavior of other kids or artists they see on mtv because they think that IS reality. It goes back and forth because mainstream music is all about money. You gotta be able to relate to the target audience.

There are still a lot of people who think it's ok to call a black guy a nigga in a friendly manner like that one chick from the real world new orleans. Some people don't mind at all but I never do this no matter how close I am to the person.
I feel like it's mostly non minorities or older generation whites that are prone to open their mouths publicly and make mistakes like Imus. There are racists in all colors but minorities are less likely to make disparaging marks to one another.
There's something called Racist Love people are unaware of. This is different from the racist hate that existed in the sixties and before. I myself am guilty of racist love sometimes I admit. If I see niggas acting like fools on TV, I am entertained and I don't change the channel. Depending on your opinion though, it's not always niggas acting like fools but it can be a person being himself. If I am entertained by a person being himself and he happens to be black does that make me a racist?
I think Chapelle's show contributed greatly to Racist love. Hip Hop is not the culprit. It's just the older generation doesn't know better, or the individual was raised by his parents to have negative viewpoint

[GeoG2]

do you think she wanted snoop's contract invalidated just becuase she didnt like snoop?
no
it was because she felt that the image/etc he was putting out was harmful.
based on the hypothetical precedent of snoops contract being invalidated why should the next artist who comes along and raps about the same thing, be given a pass? Do you think she just wanted snoop out problem solved? no, she want the record labels to be held responsible, snoop was probably just the only relevant example she could think of at the time.

It isn't either of our place to speculate on what was in her head. Hell, for all we know... maybe she really just doesn't like Snoop. Oprah sure doesn't.

That being said, the following would also be speculation of what was in her head: a simple case of artists being more responsible for what they say on record.

Record labels really don't have anything to do with it, as something was brought up earlier about songs containing certain lyrics or themes are not played on a NY station. It's all censorship. If you make it so that artists suffer less radio play or potentially have their contracts invalidated, that's the point. It's all about providing strict conditions and forcing them to be more responsible of what they say. The labels are already held responsible... it doesn't mean anything.

Nobody gets a pas, but this is reality. You get rid of one, more will take his place. And the labels WON'T say no, because the artists rap about what sells. So in actuality, that first artist wouldn't even get fired... because the labels want money.

[starkilled]

What the fuck? People are still tripping on snoop dogg?:confused: Oprah really is an old geezer and needs to shut the hell up. If I see something I dont wanna see or listen to, I simply leave the room or turn it off, it's not that hard.

Anyway, whenever I see Oprah I just think..I like to see what skeletons she's hiding in her closet, probably a whole grave yard for all I know.

[Son Them All]

Witch mother fucking hunt. As long as there are cats who don't respect women and rap is there only meal ticket there will be mysogonistic lyrics, because those are the people making the damn music. If people who are actually intelligent and respect women make the music, then mysogony will not be a part of the art.

This will never go away. This is the fuckin will of the people. The people willed George W. Bush for 8 years. Nobody really likes it now but you HAVE to deal with it. Get the sand out of your vaginas bitches, and suck my cock and balls.

[Spiderjericho]

Here is an article I found on the news wires about the current attack/debate on hip-hop:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070419/ap_en_mu/rap_language

I admire Oprah for having the show so soon after the Imus controversy. It at least allowed a dialogue to be brought up about some of the grumblings (like Imus saying there was hypocrisy, etc, etc). It would've been nice if P.Diddy, Jay-Z and Snoop would of been on the show.

[MrBlank]

u specifically said gangster rap.

their are only 2 current gangster rappers in the mainstream


50 and the game.

Dawgpound
The Diplomats
Young Bloodz
Rich Boy
Snoop Dog still reppin that Crip side

[Spiderjericho]

Witch mother fucking hunt. As long as there are cats who don't respect women and rap is there only meal ticket there will be mysogonistic lyrics, because those are the people making the damn music. If people who are actually intelligent and respect women make the music, then mysogony will not be a part of the art.

What about when rock/heavy metal was the popular musical genre and they also displayed mysogony (sp) in their videos (and lyrics)? The problem is bigger than music...

[Spiderjericho]

Dawgpound
The Diplomats
Young Bloodz
Rich Boy
Snoop Dog still reppin that Crip side

Young Jeezy
Clipse
Rick Ross
Trick Daddy
Ice Cube
Jim Jones
Lil Wayne
Baby
Young Buck
50 Cent
Lloyd Banks
Tony Yayo
Bustah Rhymes (according to his recent work)

to add to that list...

Most rappers today are gangsta rappers (or fall in that mold).

[Kusanagi02]

Sigh:rolleyes: ....you know after seeing both parts those guys were doomed from the get go. The fact that Oprah was doing the moderating for this issue was reason enough to know that this was gonna be a lopsided discussion.
Between Oprah constantly interrupting whenever someone had something that was a justifiable counter-argument and whenever those spellman chicks kept interrupting with there shit...I SERIOUSLY was wishing they would just STFU and let people say there peace.

[Rhio2k]

Gangsta rap is a symptom of the larger problem in the black community.


Lol at blaming Hip Hop. "Oh no...those urban youths are having another dance-off!! Get the kids inside!"

Now about rap. There's like 3 stations to chose from on the radio where i live, and damn if the only songs on are songs about "blastin' niggas", getting drunk, robbing some place, women being *audio deleted*-ches, cheating on your woman, or trying to get some pussy. Oh, and "Runaway Love". What kind of message is that sending? The only time I hear anything positive from rap is when they play the oldies jam and they kick the good shit from back before when rap was innocent. What happened to those days? Based on what I've been forced to listen to for some 5 hours a day (I don't like rap...it's all my caucasian co-workers who think the violence and the fake-ass lifestyle portrayed in it is cool, and that rap's awesome cuz they get to sing words that they themselves were told were wrong to say. Stupid reasons to like a genre if you ask me), rap has set itself up nicely to be a scapegoat...and who knows. It might be justified. Think about this: a black kid with no father hears rap, what everyone around him considers "our race's music". He hears about all the shit some dude claims to be doing, shooting people fuckin' hoes and slinging drugs and not giving a fuck, and thinks "So THAT'S what I'm supposed to be doing. THAT'S how a black man's supposed to be." These kids going to jail aen't doing illegal things out of NEED. They're doing it cuz it's been drilled into their heads that it's cool, or that it's what they're supposed to be doing. Drilled by who? *shrug* who knows. All I know is that far too many of us are acting like we're trying to live this fictional lifestyle, and nobody told them that it's fake, and the fools peddling this lie are not people worth looking up to, just cuz they "made it". Our kids are looking up to the wrong damn people. You get sent to jail trying to act like Snoop, Snoop ain't gonna come bail you out. All he wants is for you to buy his albums. Beyond that, you don't really exist.

[The Grey Area]

Don't have time to read through entire thread yet but at three pages I wonder how many people are defending the a genre that presents the typical "******" as a cultural identity, proudly worn by not only the preformers, but the fans as well.

There is good stuff out there and I really wish it branched out on it's own. No one would call Megadeth and Nickelback the same thing, why do it to Del and little Wayne?

NWA was relevant. Curtis Blow made sense. Now rappers are saying "Be a nigga by choice. Even when you can afford not to." For no other reason than to line their coffers. Mainstream rap has eliminated the need for anyone else to tear down Black People because it shows that we are more than happy where we are.

I have just seen too many people go out of their way to get out of bad situations. And too many kids with hard working parents who want nothing more than to appear like someone in a bad situation for no other reason than they are told that in order to be"Black" that is what they need to do.

Sad thing is, if anyone other than their own told them that, they would strive to appear otherwise.

Please forgive the typos, hung over and in a hurry.

[white shadow]

Our teacher made us watch a bit of this yesterday in class.

My opinion is that nobody is forcing these women to be in these video's.If you want to stop being degraded then get an education so you want have to shake your ass just to pay rent.

The grand irony is most of all those video models are college or graduate students who are getting careers and doing more with their life. They just like easy money to pay off their student loans.

[debs]

Dawgpound
The Diplomats
Young Bloodz
Rich Boy
Snoop Dog still reppin that Crip side

none of those rappers are really relevant anymore and none of them are telling an audience to join a gang and none of them talk about killing someone from another gang.

the diplomats aren't even really gang members per se...they're just from an area that has gang members. snoop hasn't cripped in 800 years. he might talk about it and rock blue but the nigga hasn't done anything gang related in a long, long time. rich boy is irrelevant. nobody can understand what he's saying in the first place. the young bloodz aren't that relevant either.Young Jeezy
Clipse
Rick Ross
Trick Daddy
Ice Cube
Jim Jones
Lil Wayne
Baby
Young Buck
50 Cent
Lloyd Banks
Tony Yayo
Bustah Rhymes (according to his recent work)

to add to that list...

Most rappers today are gangsta rappers (or fall in that mold).

define gangsta rap? the clipse? cube? these rappers don't rap about that shit. the ONLY ppl mentioned in this thread so far that come to mind when it comes to including a gang reference on their lyrics are jim jones, lil wayne, and snoop. like gangsta rap doesn't have as much of an impact as ppl make it out to be. nobody cares about that shit. gangsta rap is dead. this isn't 92. =/ not getting on the ppl i quoted, just upset at the media for even bringing up the dead term 'gangsta rap'.

it just shows how detached they are from hip hop. who the fuck listens to gangsta rap in 2007? most of these rappers rocking red are WANNABE's. nobody follows that shit anyway. its just music. snoop rocking a blue rag isn't going to make anybody join a set. the dips, who aren't relevant and some would argue never were, isn't going to make a person join a set either. Lord knows wayne needs to sit his ass down somewhere with that blood shit. nigga joined a set in 2007. the fuck.

[Unreallystic]

::walks in::
::ponders thoughts::
!!Idea!!
::Gets on Oprah's next show::
::Poses for camera::
::Smacks the SHIT out of her::
::Goes home and plays Doom while listening to Tupac::

This shit reminds me of 'bullies' in elementary school - doing things JUST to get under your skin. I honestly havne't watched the videos, and frnakly dont' care to. I figure by what people are saying, it was "hip-hop vs the world" round 3. I can almost paint images of a panel of black big wigs and white big wigs sitting on white chairs on the left, waiting for a hip-hop big wig coming out on the right to a crowd of boos. Subtitles would have some comment about "once said women are hoes".

All in all black society is falling apart. FAST. Why? Hip-hop! But you know what, for all my heart wanting to say thats just a joke, its not. Hip-hop is responsible for the erosion of black culture as it once was. Because of hip-hop, we have a common bond between poor white kids and poor black kids. Because of hip-hop, we have lots of other races embracing alot of our styles, passions, etc - hell white people consider chitlins a delicacy now 0_o. Hip-hop has infused urban youth with the euntrapenurship spirit that extends beyond just opening a barbershop. Hip-hop has made us proud to be who we are.

So yes - I'm sorry thigns ahve changed. But hey, we can go back to the old days - where violenece, crime, and killings were at a higher pitch, but no one talked about it; instead of the way it is now - where rappers talk about it - but no one is really doing it. We can have these rappers talk about selling and cooking crack all the time, but hey - the crack market is SHOT right now - pills are easier to push and just as profitable - but they dont' talk about that. We can go back to the 80s when crack did rule and rappers weren't really talking about it though if they want to. How about we go back to when all black muscians basically GAVE all their money to the rich white elite in showbiz? Too bad, because of hip-hop *amongst other things* we are often our own bosses now in music.

At this point they need to get the fuck OUT OF HERE with this bullshit. Stop looking at the current generation as the problem - we are the end result of an equation which has the addition of THEIR generation. We didn't just spawn outselves! The society we live in - we didn't make - we were born into, and we took it upon ourselves to try and remold it into somethign else. We had NO guidance from them. I used to love Bill Cosby, but at this poiint I want him to keep his mouth CLOSED. He was one of the few black people in power who spoke when needed *not Sharpton* - but at this point even he has beceom blind. What did they teach us? They sure didn't lead by example - getting rich or powerful and bouncing out. For fuck sake - Oprah took it upon herself to build schools in another fucking COUNTRY before she did some shit here. E-40 - he aint rich, but he donated money to his high school to help out. Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton BOTH worked with great leadders in their youth, but who have they worked with since? Have they brought anyone up to help the new generation? No - too busy with their own political agenda to sincerely put the new generation foward. We have no leadership, no singular voice - hip-hop is the closest we have to it, and if you don't like what were saying, how do you think we feel?

So Snoop says something about hoes on record - well uhm the duke was really pimpin a few years back - so him saying that don't mean shit. Hell lets be real - a hoe is a person who does sexual favors for material possessions - so wouldn't that mean that women who approach a rapper trying to 'get an outfit' by sucking his dick - are hoes? No its not pretty to imagin - but its the truth of society. He didn't start the trend - Biz Markie was talking about Vapors in the 80s.

Its just a fucking excuse by them to cover up their own deficiencies - as the moms and dads of our generation - they let the TV raise us, and now they want to blame the way we turned out on the TV instead of their parenting *that was a metaphor*
- :bluu:

[The Epidemic]

Please enlighten me on this lifestyle... What is the philosophy of hip-hop?

are u bein serious?.....or are u bein a smartass? In any case rap is just one aspect of hip-hop...i say lifestyle because there are other aspects of hip-hop besides rapping....such as graffiti, bboying, and DJing...

[Unreallystic]

Honestly, the people who try to toss in the 'other' aspects of hip-hop - need to stop. Break dancing, graphing, and honestly 'truly' DJing are all - in the hip-hop since - borderline extinct. Its nice to dream that they are bigger than you - but they aren't. How many videos have them in them? Even by the most 'hip-hop' artist? Yeah they are still around, but they are so miniscual in importance to the 'ideal' of hip-hop, thats it not worth throwing in peoples face all the time. Hip-hop is simply a lifestyle and culture, don't try to make it more than that.
- :bluu:

[hubcapsignstop]

^yeah i agree, in the vernacular of today hiphop doesnt really seem to possess those elements anymore, and trying to convince people it does seems kindof futile, and irrelevant


but in repsonse to your previous post:

so you say that al/jesse havent brought up the new generation and that hiphop is the closest thing the black community has as leadership/singular voice; yet you simultaneously assert that it has no responsibilty?

hiphop may not be the reason black society is falling apart, however i beleive it is a significant factor keeping poor poeple down. I see kids emulating this shit all the time, they dont aspire to have legitimate careers, and they dont all see the message of entraprenuerialism in mainstream rap, moreso they buy into the more assecible image of a criminal lifestyle. I dont beleive rap/pop culture has sole responsibility, but it is a factor.

and damn what are you doing desecrating Biz's name:
when Biz was talking about the vapors he was not talking about bangin groupies. He was talking about girls wanting to get with him just becuase he blew up, however his response in the song was 'forget that, they can catch my vapors'.

comparing snoop to Biz is sacrelige:
most of Biz's songs were overtly positive about uplifting the community and poor young boys and girls, and stories with simple, obvious conscientious messages
i cant beleive you even said that

[Unreallystic]

^yeah i agree, in the vernacular of today hiphop doesnt really seem to possess those elements anymore


but in repsonse to your previous post:

so you say that al/jesse havent brought up the new generation and that hiphop is the closest thing the black community has as leadership/singular voice; yet you simultaneously assert that it has no responsibilty?

hiphop may not be the reason black society is falling apart, however i beleive it is a significant factor keeping poor poeple down. I see kids emulating this shit all the time, they dont aspire to have legitimate careers, and they dont all see the message of entraprenuerialism in mainstream rap, moreso they buy into the more assecible image of a criminal lifestyle. I dont beleive rap has sole responsibility, but it is a factor.

and damn what are you doing desecrating Biz's name:
when Biz was talking about the vapors he was not talking about bangin groupies. He was talking about girls wanting to get with him just becuase he blew up, however his response in the song was 'forget that, they can catch my vapors'.

comparing snoop to Biz is horrible
most of Biz's songs were overtly positive about uplifting the community and poor young boys and girls, and stories with simple, obvious conscientious messages
i cant beleive you even said that
0_o - I'm not comparing the two artist - I'm talking about the concept of the groupy in general.

1. Fall back on the kid emulation stuff. Trust me. thats a whole nother argument. That falls on parenting - its not Snoop's job to raise ya kid. If your kid is old enough to watch TV by themselves, then they shluld be old enough to see him when he's on, if you as a parent disapprove - then don't allow it - simple as that. I'm just waiting for the news to tie the VT tragedy in with video games - I know they'll find a copy of WOW in his room or MK or Doom and blame that instead of the people that raised him. Everyone is just looking for a scape goat and hip-hop without a singualr voice is the easiest to pick on.

2. Being real - black people keep black people down because thats what we were trained to do during slavery and we never broke it. during slavery they trained us to become cliquish - the whole 'black folks seem cliquish' thing orignated from slavery - and we have never been able to shake it. We have been our own worse enemy since we got here. Because of this I will not deny that hip-hop has no influence - that would be childish, foolish, and irresponsible of me in any kind of debate - but but but but - are the negative influences of hip-hop worse than the positives? What are the influences worth if those in power don't steer those influences? Do you think Oprah would of had the reaction from hip-hop she has gotten, if she treated Ledacris like an actor for 'Crash'? do you think her respect would go up if she had conscience rappers on teh show talking about shit instead of trying to find the most degrading possible way to portray us - a tactic used when trying to bring something DOWN?

Too blame the current states of black on hip-hop is a crock of crap - most blacks don't listen to rap *fact not fiction*. Not only that but the effects of hip-hop havne't been around long enough to 'destroy' us to the point we are now. We were already on this track decades ago. Blaxploitation films? For all the laughter I have watching Dolemite - don't you realize he influenced the likes of Snoop and Big boi *admittedly*? Before Foxy Brown...there was Foxy Brown. Lil Kim wasn't the 'first Queen Bee' - who help run a whore house for Dolemite. People need to stop pretending like everthing originateed with hip-hop in 1979...shit started way before that.
- :bluu:

[white shadow]

Another thing I feel needs to be addressed-

I think people who simply pass blame to parents are being too idealistic. Music and pop culture permeates our society like a water through a sponge. To think a parent (or parents, which is becoming an ever decreasing minority nowadays), especially destitute single parent working several jobs to get by in the slums to keep track of what they're kids are listening or watching 24/7 is a bit unrealistic. Not when kids are in school, around peers, and just experiencing public life.

Exposure to the ills of society isn't what perpetuates this problem it is the simple fact that parents are not trying to teach their children the distinction between the violence/misogyny/sex/stereotypes that exists in their community as a whole, not just from hip hop. No matter how busy a parent is it is their obligation to teach their children the values necessary to be balanced human beings so that they won't learn their values from other places, like the streets.

I grew up listening to all kinds of music, including gangsta rap, however since I was taught at an early age the meaning of having values I didn't suffer an social quandaries on how to treat other people and to have self-respect. No matter how many rap songs I listened wouldn't have changed that fact.

Face it, kids today are going to be exposed to violence, sex, and all the negative aspects of society unless you want parents to put them in a box and homeschool them, but as long as they can draw a line between observing and assimillating there won't be a problem.

[RockBogart]

Yeah I doubt we will see any rappers like Common, Talib, Mos, Lupe, or even Public Enemy on her show simply because they don't represent the negative side of hip-hop that gets over played every day. Shit even Luda. Release Therapy is his only CD I can listen all the way through because its not filled with nonstop bullshit.

[hubcapsignstop]

0_o - I'm not comparing the two artist - I'm talking about the concept of the groupy in general.oh ok
i guess i misunderstood
i thought you were talking about messages in rap, not females degrading themselves

1. Fall back on the kid emulation stuff. Trust me. thats a whole nother argument. That falls on parenting - its not Snoop's job to raise ya kid. If your kid is old enough to watch TV by themselves, then they shluld be old enough to see him when he's on, if you as a parent disapprove - then don't allow it - simple as that. I'm just waiting for the news to tie the VT tragedy in with video games - I know they'll find a copy of WOW in his room or MK or Doom and blame that instead of the people that raised him. Everyone is just looking for a scape goat and hip-hop without a singualr voice is the easiest to pick on.
i cant trust you
becuase i lived in a very poor area and ive seen how young, poor single parents raise their kids. And the kids are basically raising themselves. Hell, ive had to grab crying babies off the ground to bring into grandma, when little momma juanita decided to drive off in a car full of guys. She literally just stopped braiding her baby's hair, took her off her lap, set her on the porch stairs, and ran into a car full of guys which sped off.
i said this in response to another poster earlier:

I also happen to agree with your point that kids not being brought up in a stable family unit/poor parenting is a huge part of the blame. But the pop culture images that impressionabl kids in the neighborhood get bobarded with ARE having a ddestructive effect on the community. In poor neighborhoods the community itself is often what raises the childeren, due to a large amount of single mothers struggling, etc.. (and how do you think objectifying women as sexual objects in pop culture effects the propegation of broken family units? ...and so on)

Too blame the current states of black on hip-hop is a crock of crap - most blacks don't listen to rap *fact not fiction*. Not only that but the effects of hip-hop havne't been around long enough to 'destroy' us to the point we are now. We were already on this track decades ago. Blaxploitation films? For all the laughter I have watching Dolemite - don't you realize he influenced the likes of Snoop and Big boi *admittedly*? Before Foxy Brown...there was Foxy Brown. Lil Kim wasn't the 'first Queen Bee' - who help run a whore house for Dolemite. People need to stop pretending like everthing originateed with hip-hop in 1979...shit started way before that.
- :bluu:
i posted earlier that im not trying to say pop culture destroyed the black cmmunity but rather it seems like an element that helps to keep black people down:
hiphop may not be the reason black society is falling apart, however i beleive it is a significant factor keeping poor poeple down. I see kids emulating this shit all the time, they dont aspire to have legitimate careers, and they dont all see the message of entraprenuerialism in mainstream rap, moreso they buy into the more assecible image of a criminal lifestyle. I dont beleive rap/pop culture has sole responsibility, but it is a factor.

[Biolink]

Common was on the show Rock.

From what I can remember,he brough up great points,but the entire segment seemed like Oprah,the college women,as well as Oprah's guest's were trying to push their opinions on Common,Russel,and Lyles,but on the other end they didn't really give Common,Russel,or Lyles to defend themselves

They very much impied that the source of the problem was Russel Simmon's for signing the rappers to the labels.
--------

Idealists make me sick.They were so extreme in their viewpoints that you might as well just wipe Hip-Hop from existence,because that's the only way they will ever be happy.

[The Epidemic]

i guess nas is right...hip-hop is dead..

[Unreallystic]

Another thing I feel needs to be addressed-

I think people who simply pass blame to parents are being too idealistic. Music and pop culture permeates our society like a water through a sponge. To think a parent (or parents, which is becoming an ever decreasing minority nowadays), especially destitute single parent working several jobs to get by in the slums to keep track of what they're kids are listening or watching 24/7 is a bit unrealistic. Not when kids are in school, around peers, and just experiencing public life.

Exposure to the ills of society isn't what perpetuates this problem it is the simple fact that parents are not trying to teach their children the distinction between the violence/misogyny/sex/stereotypes that exists in their community as a whole, not just from hip hop. No matter how busy a parent is it is their obligation to teach their children the values necessary to be balanced human beings so that they won't learn their values from other places, like the streets.

I grew up listening to all kinds of music, including gangsta rap, however since I was taught at an early age the meaning of having values I didn't suffer an social quandaries on how to treat other people and to have self-respect. No matter how many rap songs I listened wouldn't have changed that fact.

Face it, kids today are going to be exposed to violence, sex, and all the negative aspects of society unless you want parents to put them in a box and homeschool them, but as long as they can draw a line between observing and assimillating there won't be a problem.

I guess I didn't express my view properly on the parenting - I'm not expecting the parent to be there the whole time, my 'rents sure as hell weren't - but they taught me the difference - and thats what I'm getting at. Yes I was influenced by what I saw on TV, but because of my parents - I've never done drugs, only sold once to pay for food, never shot anyone, never been invovled in an act of violence, and I open the door for people and say thank you. It was my 'rents job to make sure I grew up into a functional man - they did that - and I've listened to basically nothing but rap since 5th grade - 15 years of straight rap.
- :bluu:

[The Epidemic]

Honestly, the people who try to toss in the 'other' aspects of hip-hop - need to stop. Break dancing, graphing, and honestly 'truly' DJing are all - in the hip-hop since - borderline extinct. Its nice to dream that they are bigger than you - but they aren't. How many videos have them in them? Even by the most 'hip-hop' artist? Yeah they are still around, but they are so miniscual in importance to the 'ideal' of hip-hop, thats it not worth throwing in peoples face all the time. Hip-hop is simply a lifestyle and culture, don't try to make it more than that.
- :bluu:


also, in all honesty the only aspect of hip-hop that is truly fading away is graffiti...DJing and BBoying is still very much alive...anybody who disagrees doesnt get out that much..

[HeaT]

i dont know where those chicks live, but i have never heard anyone call a chick that they dont know an outright hoe to their face lolol wtf...apparently they all have had that happen to them...that is kinda weird...and some of them dont even have the look for someone to call them hos...anyway, i found that interesting...

is it the drugs fault that people do drugs???

im outi

Roberth

[akumatrunigga]

I looked at the first video. But what makes me sick in this issue is that fact that they had to find the snootiest of all black women.
WHICH IS SPELLMAN!!!!!!! :lol:

I am getting tired of this, tired of this and sick of tired of this. The supposedly higher up blacks constantly critizing at the HIP-HOP artists, constantly critizing at black men who are trying their best to make things better. I can't stand it anymore. Some of these people need to get off of their high horse and stop pretending that everything is like peaches and cream and do somehthing instead of yelling at people and at the same time promoting their fifth book about this issue. Now question, how come Oprah or anyone of these forums have yet get the other records owners. They always go after russell but dont go after Interscope Records, Warner Bros records or anyone of the other labels. Yes Mr Simmons is the most recognizable but what about the second guy of Def Jam?

[versus addict]

Russell is a slave owner....

He pimps anything and everything for $$$, he doesn't care about content or image, just whats gonna $ell. He's raped so many of his own artists.

Fuck Russell, at least Oprah tries to uplift people. She's not always right but she's definitely got a point.

Russell only cares about Russell.

...and

Poverty does not = disregard for values or morals. There are a lot of poor communities in the past that didn't act that way, quite the opposite. Stop blaming poverty for that BS.

People choose their paths, hard or easy.....

[Unreallystic]

also, in all honesty the only aspect of hip-hop that is truly fading away is graffiti...DJing and BBoying is still very much alive...anybody who disagrees doesnt get out that much..

:rofl:
sure...you believe that.

Yes they are out there, I'm not saying they aren't, but back when it was considered one of the four pillars of hiphop - almost EVERYONE had a couple b-boy moves, or did graffiti, or DJed - that was the thing - everyone was a little invovled with everything or in tuned. None of my folks have touched spray paint. None of them b-boy, Ace is getting into DJing - at the age of 24. If there are 50 people in a room who afffiliate themselves with hip-hop - how many do think b-boy or do graffiti or even DJ (not that fake as mixtape shit but actually spin for a party)? Exactly. thats my point of nigh extinction - ESPECIALLY if you compare it to the giant that rap has become.
- :bluu:

[shatterstar]

i just dont understand why the "hoes" from spellmen are comin down common...of all people....

where's young jeezy? where's lil' flip? where's fat joe's fat ass at? common is like the main artist that's actually positve. fuck them, "hoes". we call yaw hoes cuz yaws' stupid, lol.

[thurst]

i'll catch up on this thread later, but after watching this i just wanted to say, "fuck those bitches at spelman."

how the fuck you gonna be like "yeah i don't support hip hop blah blah" and "i'm not a ho, etc, etc..." right after you were complaining about getting called a ho up in the club by random dudes? is this a hip-hop club? the same hip-hop that you supposedly don't support, why are you in the club anyway? if you're gonna pretend you're on some moral high ground shit you can't start it off with "yeah, when i'm in the club i don't like how i'm treated." yeah ok whatever bitch, get out the club then.

[Biolink]

Who's the Asian in your avatar Shatter?

[shatterstar]

Who's the Asian in your avatar Shatter?
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=3818995&postcount=438

Mayuko.

anyway, after finally watching all 4 parts, i'm still pissed. i officially hate Oprah, and i'm getting even more tired of black women always tryin to make shyt about them when THEY are the reason why the words "bitches" and "hoes" exist. yo' momma should've swalloed you. fuck them Spellman hoes and fuck all the people who think that i, as a hip hop producer/artist, and other artist should be held responsible for whatever the fuck we say, and to be "a father" to your bad ass kids. raise yo' own fuckin' kids.:annoy:

[Sexperienced.]

where violenece, crime, and killings were at a higher pitch, but no one talked about it; instead of the way it is now - where rappers talk about it - but no one is really doing it.

lmao @ "a common bond between poor white kids and poor black kids". snoop was on trial for murder a while back and cassidy quite recently, its not like they're talking about things they dont do.

edit: forgot about mystikal getting 12 years for rape.

[Biolink]

Oprah wins:

http://www.hollywoodgrind.com/?p=5355

[GeoG2]

i dont know where those chicks live, but i have never heard anyone call a chick that they dont know an outright hoe to their face lolol wtf...apparently they all have had that happen to them...that is kinda weird...and some of them dont even have the look for someone to call them hos...anyway, i found that interesting...

is it the drugs fault that people do drugs???

im outi

Roberth

They're in ATL. "Ho" is a common term there. They used their environment as part of their argument, which is bullshit cause if they were anywhere else... they wouldn't be able to use it.

And it's funny how damn near all of them mentioned being called a ho while in the club. Those birds are probably up in the club shaking their ass to the same music they try to down, yet trying to act offended while on TV.

[Senjutsu Sensei]

Honestly, the people who try to toss in the 'other' aspects of hip-hop - need to stop. Break dancing, graphing, and honestly 'truly' DJing are all - in the hip-hop since - borderline extinct. Its nice to dream that they are bigger than you - but they aren't. How many videos have them in them? Even by the most 'hip-hop' artist? Yeah they are still around, but they are so miniscual in importance to the 'ideal' of hip-hop, thats it not worth throwing in peoples face all the time. Hip-hop is simply a lifestyle and culture, don't try to make it more than that.
- :bluu:


So DJs aren't prevalent anymore Unreal? And Bboyin? So they don't have local events for competitions in both of those? And there aren't even larger events such as Freestyle Sessions and Battle of the Year which are worldwide? I'm not attacking you or anything cause we're both artists, but being an emcee, producer, dancer, and NOOB DJ myself, I can't agree with what you said since I'm in communication with many people who take part in all of these aspects. Videos...yeah this shit probably isn't shown in them, but I haven't watched a mainstream video in so damn long because I don't watch TV and I don't listen to the radio. TV and radio are both wack as fuck. I hear shitty ass three note melody cRap music talkin about why they're hot and why you're not, and talkin about foods like chicken soup and laffy taffy. It seems the most well known "artists" are the shittiest and have no background in music at all or any culture other than the culture of being fake so they can make cash. They aren't doing shit for the love of it or even to progress. I've never even heard a multi syllable rhyme in mainstream shit. :rofl: But it's all good man, I'm just saying that it's alive to the people who participate in it, and I have friends from the US and other countries that bust all this, so we're havin fun without our gats. It's existent to us, we can't all be imagining it. Stay Unreal.

Now....


What the fuck music do these people listen to? And who the fuck is Akorn?

The Grouch, Eligh, Luckyiam, Sunspot Jonz, Braintax, Phi Life Cypher, Cyne, Twigy, Rappagariya, Nitro Microphone Underground....etc. None of the HIP HOP I listen to has anything to do with what those cold-cootered broads are getting mad about. Someone said that those broads were the same ones in the clubs dancin to the shitty characters they're hatin on, and that was too much truth. Honestly, get them off camera and see a day in the life of their little group of friends, they'd be the same ones gettin put in Boston Crabs and shit as explained here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ym56uiTXwJM

...so what they need to worry about is having the size of the power button on TVs and radios increased so people will be more inclined to turn off that bullshit on a platter they call entertainment. But yeah...the real issue is the Penis Power. That's why the women can't seem to escape the loop of degrading themselves. They're anxious for famous cawk because famous cawk has more status and would in turn get their cooter more saught after.

Sensei

P.S. Don Anus shouldn't have been fired. The black community for the most part, is being racist towards themselves. Black people are not the only people that can have nappy hair, and black females are not the only females that can be hos. So for relating their own race to the words "nappy" and "ho", they are stating that they are the sole owners of those traits. I'm mixed and I can come through with heavy Akuma-type naps from my Puerto Rican blood.

[debs]

lmao @ "a common bond between poor white kids and poor black kids". snoop was on trial for murder a while back and cassidy quite recently, its not like they're talking about things they dont do.

edit: forgot about mystikal getting 12 years for rape.

cassidy got off, snoop got off and mystikal never rapped about forcing a female to go down on him, so...

your point, again? 99.999999999999% of these emcees out here aren't doing the shit they currently rap about. why don't you name drop a few of the ppl from other genres and court cases? there are plenty.

*looks at av, remembers the "******" thing. * nevermind...i forgot who i'm talking to.

[Sexperienced.]

you seem to forget a lot of things. what happened to leaving srk forever?

[debs]

i didn't forget a damn thing, but i realized that:

-i originally came to srk for fighting games, not general discussion.
-a lot of ppl act one way on the internet but another way in person. ppl try to carry themselves on the internet how they wish they could in real life. most ppl are cowards. half the shit that ppl say here should go in one ear and out the other because in real life their soft, quiet individuals.
-i have a few friends on here that i know in rl but most of you i will never meet so what you say shouldn't and doesn't bother me. some ppl on here are assholes on purpose.
-etc.
-don't get me wrong...i still meant everything i said in my last post on my old account. i'm just not gonna let somebody 80,000 miles away get to me. you ppl are nothing (with the exception of a few of my friends and a few e friends as well) but a bunch of text on a screen.

that and i got asked to come back from a few of my friends. the clothes thread was dead too. it still is, i need to revive it.

not that you needed to know because its irrelevant to the whole conversation, but since you asked. now why are you an asshole, again? why do you use this convo as an opportunity to use the word ******? why do you have that piece of shit depiction of Muhammad as your avatar? are you going to add anything else to the topic or are you going to continue to troll?

on topic:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5065949310221269915&q=style+wars

everybody in this thread should click on the link.

[P. Gorath]

graffiti is a stain on society. linking it with hip hop doesnt do hip hop any favors in terms of arguing against a negative influence

[debs]

oh na...there was a lil segment in the vid with some early hip hop/breaking. just thought it'd be cool to look back on hip hop culture in 1982...someone found the vid on google today and showed me so i thought i'd share.

(i like graffiti though and write off and on...not as much as i used to)

[Sexperienced.]

i didn't forget a damn thing


srk isnt the only fighting games site, i can suggest a few others you could join.

i find it funny that you say you didnt come here for the general discussion but on you return you decide to post on the "general discussion forum". you're either very forgetful or extremely stupid, and what happened to not responding to my posts?... oh sorry i guess you forgot.

why feel offended when i use the n-word in a disscussion to prove a point, the word offends me just as much as it would any sane person.

[debs]

you can check my posts. i came back on some rap and video game shit.
anyway take that to pm's. you're trolling the thread at this point. you don't have anything to say at all on the topic of hip hop. you on some hidden agenda type of shit. you want my aim or yahoo? obviously you're not interested in this thread, you're interested in ME. i really don't have anything to say to you at all, but if you wanna interview me or some shit, you can pm me, im me or whatever. you prolly don't even listen to hip hop at all. this time i'm really not going to respond to you because it has nothing to do with the topic and you're dragging the thread in a different direction. i forgot i had a fan club here.

**edit**

i really hope you guys click on the link to watch style wars. you can see that the conditions that ppl lived in...there's a few hip hop segments throughout the movie, although most of it is about graffiti. you can hear the way ppl talk. compare the way ppl talk to now. ppl say oh well hip hop used to be so fun and now all you hear is the n word. style wars was made in 82, iirc, and ppl throw around the n word then. that was when hip hop was fun, etc. so basically you can't blame hip hop for the degradation of ppl. you have to blame society and socio-economic conditions. hip hop and its culture is just a reflection of society.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5065949310221269915&q=style+wars

[Sexperienced.]

nobody gives a fuck about you and you know that. why respond to a post of mine that was aimed at unreallystic after saying you wouldnt respond to me. now you assume i'd want to interview you, wtf.

. i really don't have anything to say to you at all

how many times are you going to say that. lets just hope it stays that way

[spudlyff8fan]

so basically you can't blame hip hop for the degradation of ppl.

Nope, you can't. But you can criticize it for promoting it.

[debs]

but why criticize rappers? why not the labels or label execs that distribute it? if the labels weren't distributing it then you wouldn't have ppl out here on the streets battling each other using the lyrics they're using...the content would change.

[versus addict]

Oprah wins:

http://www.hollywoodgrind.com/?p=5355

.................WTF?!

[HeaT]

.................WTF?!

BAHAHAHA...OMG dude, that was rediculous...i laughed and then was like wow...

im outi

Roberth

[spudlyff8fan]

but why criticize rappers? why not the labels or label execs that distribute it? if the labels weren't distributing it then you wouldn't have ppl out here on the streets battling each other using the lyrics they're using...the content would change.

That's like saying you should blame gunshops for shootings.

And rappers battle eachothers with lyrics? I think that only applies to the ones who got capped.

[debs]

what? you can blame socio-economic conditions for a lot of the crime that involves shooting as well...
but the labels specialize on capitalizing. if its going to sell then they are going to look into it. conscious hip hop doesn't sell so they don't go after those type of artists (generalization). why do you think we hear that garbage on the radio? two step? tatted up? lip gloss? its because ppl buy that shit.

i've posted this in the rap thread, but i'll post it here:

-we are in a d/ling age. many of us have ipods..many of us haven't copped a record in years.
-we are the prime ppl complaining about the shit we hear and see on tv and about how hip hop is dead.
-we don't cop records so why would record companies care about what we say?
-record companies sign artists that they think will sell based on whats currently selling.
-that shit on the radio you hear is selling. rap sales as a whole are down, but the ppl that still cop records (kids from the suburbs, females-generalization) are copping that and requesting it.
-labels market and distribute accordingly

now, why would you blame the rapper? rappers are pawns. they can't even really eat off of their record sales...they have to tour just to make money. they barely make like what...2 dollars or so per record if that? label execs make in the hundreds of millions of dollars. a rapper gets an advance to create their record...they have to pay for studio time, etc. their record could put them in the hole with the label if it doesn't sell properly.

why do rappers write the way they do? because of society. there were ppl calling each other niggas, bitches and ho's long before rap. look at documentaries from different decades and see. ppl used nigga in the 60's and back. men have oppressed women since...forever. this isn't some hip hop shit. hip hop is a SCAPEGOAT. lets take away hip hop. lets end it. will ppl still be calling each other bitches, ho's, niggas and using broken english and killing each other? YES. there's your answer.

are women discriminated in other countries and called derogatory names? YES. do ppl call each other derogatory names in a brotherly way in other countries? YES. so how is this a hip hop issue? its a society issue. what about rock music? they've had videos degrading women for years. but your average rocker is white. they've had questionable lyrics for years. rock is full of controversy. always has been. but imus says, "nappy headed ho" and all of a sudden hip hop is to blame. negro plz @ the media.

where are you from again? rappers where i'm from talk about who's moving the most weight, which crew has the most and the biggest guns, and what they did with their rivals girl 5 min before they battled.

mook vs. lux:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RXigwu27Bc

[Dark Geese]

Honestly if Hip Hop or Rap music, alone , has influenced you to become a pimp or gangster more than the environment you live in, then you're a dumbass.



The fucking truth. As a teacher I see the fact that ignorance plays a big part in this..its how you have been raised..if your parents cuss, lie, cheat, steal say "nigga this, nigga that" you more than likely will do it too!!!

You cant blame it on race either, I know backwards White people in East Texas that devalue education because they think they are "too smart" for it. :sweat: They are used to everything being given to them thus they don't appreciate hard work.

Teachers can only do so much also trying to help these "project kids." Most of them aint gonna listen to you anyways..after all these "Project Hood Schools" no one WANTS TO TEACH IN THEM..the reason they do is so they can get a good sized paycheck AND get their loans forgiven, but when these kids are so disrespectful they push teachers and cuss at them because its ""Bowdit bowdit or Gangsta" then it shows why these teachers dont wanna be there.

Now just because you live in DA Hood dont mean you gotta be GHETTO.

You DO Have a choice..but there lies another issue..because for many they view getting an education and shit and speaking proper as being a "Sell out/White (SUPERFUCKING IGNORANT!!!!)" many for fear of being accepted by their "homies and friends" will never see what an education will do for them..One Sheet of paper can and WILL Change your life..


But Debs I hate hip hop now and days..I can see some of the debate about it..compare hip hop now to the early 90s days.."Fight the Power", BlackSheep, Blackstreet, Big Daddy Kane, Tevin Campbell, New Edition, Babyface,Whitney Houston, Mariah Carey,Janet Jackson, Michael Jackson,Usher, LL Cool J (even his shit is CLEAN!) many, mature others and all that other shit had NOTHING to do with this..it was clean mostly..none of this shit..the good days for hip hop..now you got all this violence- sex-glorification and BS...the glory days for hip hop are over...

And its about what they go through?? I think people like Public Enemy went through MUCH WORSE than the rappers of today..and yet they keep their records clean..MATURE..

Nobody blamed stuff on hiphop then did they????

[spudlyff8fan]

Once again. Rap is PROMOTING calling people a derogatory name, shooting cops, doing drugs and all that stuff. It'd happen anyway, but they're promoting it. They make a career of it.

And are you blaming society?

How cliche.

[debs]

Once again. Rap is PROMOTING calling people a derogatory name, shooting cops, doing drugs and all that stuff. It'd happen anyway, but they're promoting it. They make a career of it.

And are you blaming society?

How cliche.

yeah, i am blaming society. society created "the struggle." you (not you) took a group of ppl, ripped them from everything they knew, brought them over here and separated them so that they couldn't communicate...you enslaved them, didn't allow them to learn how to read or write...held them down using religion. broke them so that they had no self worth, no integrity, nothing...
then they were "free." only they had to go through jim crow...they had to live with the fact that their govt was against them and turned the other way on pretty much every issue having to do with them. fast foward to now, past the civil rights movement, the womens rights movement, etc.

i skipped over the crack epidemic and how much it affected black ppl, i skipped over single parent homes, black on black crime, drugs in urban communities, urban decay or neighborhoods and public schools, the lack of education reform, etc. etc.

basically, long story short, if nobody around you is successful and nobody around you is in school seriously (or taking it seriously), then why should you? if everybody around you is using nigga, ho, bitch, etc. to describe themselves and others, why wouldn't you? rap isn't promoting a damn thing, the labels are. rappers are pawns. you gonna blame the bullet for a person being shot or the gun it was shot out of? or the person shooting the gun?

IMHO
the bullet: the rapper
the gun: label execs wanting to make a buck
the criminal: society and capitalism

cut off the head of the snake and the body dies. attack the root of the problem.

[Dark Geese]

Now he makes a point about that statement.

One of my personal tenants I live with is a convicted felon. The system has fucked him over because once a felon always a felon. He cannot get a job anywhere because of one mistake in his life, and cant even get in school or anything. The truth is convicted felons are at THE BOTTOM of the barrel. Illegal aliens have it better than they do because they can get work.

Convicted felons cannot, the system is made to make the jails more money...so another way to support what debs is saying..the rich get richer and the poor get poorer..

But would you all want communism???

I am Cuban..a Black Hispanic..in Cuba this type of shit wouldnt exist..no one would be allowed to speak out against the government or anything like that..everyone lives in fear...because they will make you "dissappear" without a trace should you think you can say something out of line..they will kill you...

So lets put it in perspective..this is the price we must pay for having a democracy..social class, division, poverty, racism, crime in poverty stricken areas.

Differences which some understand some dont that breed racism and misunderstanding....

Different social upbringings that almost are never ending..

If you didnt go to school and are living fine without school selling dope or whatever working at McDonalds all your life why would your kids believe they NEED an education? Further more they can sell drugs and make more than US TEACHERS or those with a degree??????????????? :annoy: Thats the shit that pisses me off personally. :annoy: :annoy:

The cycle almost never ends...it continues for generations and generations...

and in the future a Bachelors degree wont be enough.meaning MORE will fall to poverty because they will soon find out just how hard Grad School is!!!! :rofl: :lol:

[spudlyff8fan]

yeah, i am blaming society. society created "the struggle." you (not you) took a group of ppl, ripped them from everything they knew, brought them over here and separated them so that they couldn't communicate...you enslaved them, didn't allow them to learn how to read or write...held them down using religion. broke them so that they had no self worth, no integrity, nothing...
then they were "free." only they had to go through jim crow...they had to live with the fact that their govt was against them and turned the other way on pretty much every issue having to do with them. fast foward to now, past the civil rights movement, the womens rights movement, etc.

i skipped o