Zangeif Thread

[King Of Bums]

L2P geif here. With the First question being, how the hell do you pull off a standing FAB? I can get it in with a jump in tick, but some people and videos show that FAB can be done from standing. Please someone explain how the hell this works.

[Master Bigode]

L2P geif here. With the First question being, how the hell do you pull off a standing FAB? I can get it in with a jump in tick, but some people and videos show that FAB can be done from standing. Please someone explain how the hell this works.

Do the motion in the maximum of 7 frames after pressing :u:.

[King Of Bums]

Do the motion in the maximum of 7 frames after pressing :u:.

Do you know what that is in seconds, I forget how many frames per second there are in ST (its about 60 fps last I recall).

[Don Calzone]

May I just ask someone to briefly explain how jump in -> tick throw actually works. I've figured out that it only works with fierce grab, but how do you consistenly get it in?

[ThisGuileKillYa]

I apologize in advance for the scrubbiness of this question, but Im getting desperate. 70% of the time I play on a PAD. If you know nothing about pad play, please skip this post. But to any decent Gief using pad players, this question is for you:

Can you offer any tips on consistant SPD-ing with the pad?? I am so frickin inconsistant with it, making Gief just about unplayable. but Ive seen pad players who get it 9/10. I can do it with an empty jump OK. But when I try to tick it or anchor it(do a normal, motion during), I'm about 2/10 on a good day. If anyone can offer any advice on consistant SPD'ing with a pad, I'd be greatly appreciative. I do know about the whole "you dont have to do a full 360" idea, my question is more about the exact inputs you guys use. I know the Wolfe brothers are/were pad beasts, so if you guys check this thread, how did you guys do your SPDs? Id love to add gief to my repertoire, but I cant use my stick for online play and am condemned to be a pad scrub :) If I could get splash to cJab to SPD consistant, I could be scary w/ the drunken russian.

Also what are the best non-jump in ticks into SPD (this is not limited to pad play): my understanding is something like:

cJab, cShort, sShort, and maybe sStrong. Are there any I should be aware of?

[UltraDavid]

Well standing 720 is pretty much impossible for humans in this game. I've never met anyone who could do it, and I doubt anyone can. If you've seen it, it was probably done with a programmable stick.

As for ticking into spinning pile driver, you can do the spd with any punch button, and in fact you should. When doing the 360, don't just press one punch button, tap two rhythmically (like pressing two adjacent piano keys). The reason to do this is that you get 4 potential 360 inputs (1 for pressing the first button down, 2 for letting it go, 3 for pressing the second button down, and 4 for letting that one go). This is just to make sure you have the best chance possible to get a 360 out. The reason to press 2 punch buttons and not 3 is that if you do 3 you might accidentally get the punch lariat instead. For most ticks I press fierce and strong because they do marginally more damage than jab, but for ticks that leave me far away I do jab and strong, because jab has marginally more range.

The timing for getting a tick is something you have to figure out, it's hard to just type how to do it, but make sure that you press punch immediately after the move you're ticking from ends; you can't cancel your tick normal, because you have to wait for block/hitstun to end before throwing the opponent. So like for crouching short into spd, do the short, see it retract, and then 360 + piano two punch buttons.

There's a crapload of different things you can tick into spd with, and you want to mix them up a bit to make it harder for the opponent to know when to try to reversal. This is especially true against charge characters. If you do safe jumping down+short, crouching jab, and then spd every time against Guile, the Guile player will know to use his flash kick charge after the crouching jab every time. But if you do jumping down+short, crouching jab, crouching jab, and then spd and the Guile player used up his charge after the first crouching jab (but obviously it didn't do anything because you were chaining crouching jab), then you get a free spd because he no longer has anything to reversal with. You can also mix it up with strength of attack; this is especially useful for Gief's jumping kicks because they mostly have the same animations. If you do jumping short into spd every time, the opponent will know to wait until the end of the short's small block/hitstun before reversaling, but if you mix it up with jumping forward, you'll screw him up. Also, if you're doing a tick string, don't end it with something you can't keep chaining after, because then it's obvious that you're gonna spd right after that. Gief's normals are remarkably linkable, so this really means that you just shouldn't use crouching short all that often. Oh, and sometimes, if you think your spd will get reversaled, just block and punish after.

Something else you want to make sure of when ticking into spd is that you're far enough away so that your opponent can't reversal normal throw you out of it (which is possible if you're in range). You can get around this in a bunch of different ways, like doing a far standing short or a far jumping attack into spd or just by making sure you chain enough normals so that you're pushed back out of their normal throw range.

One other thing, I try to do the 360 motion toward the direction I'm facing. If I'm facing to the right, I do left, down, right, up, punch, and if I'm facing to the left I do the opposite. The reason for this is that it skirts the possibility of accidentally getting a green hand out instead of the 360.

The most basic ticks are far standing short, crouching jab, jumping short, jumping forward, and crouching short, but really anything can be used, I mean everything from standing strong to standing forward to crouching forward to crouching strong to crouching roundhouse to jumping roundhouse to jumping fierce. Some of the more useful tick strings are:

(Jumping down+short/forward) crouching jab, crouching jab, crouching jab/crouching short
(Jumping down+short/forward) crouching short/crouching forward
(Fierce splash) crouching jab, crouching jab/crouching short/standing short
(Crossup fierce splash) crouching jab, crouching jab, (crouching jab/crouching short/standing short)
Jumping fierce, standing strong
Crossup fierce splash, standing strong, standing short
Crossup fierce splash, standing strong, crouching forward

For the ones that have standing strong, the opponent must be crouching or else they'll duck the strong. And obviously all of these can and sometimes should be interrupted at any point by spd.


Edit: For pads, I had to use pad for a while, and basically I just do it by rotating my thumb. I don't physically move my thumb really, like the center of my thumb stays in the middle, I just press the outside of it to the sides of the d-pad. And quickly, I guess.

[Master Bigode]

I apologize in advance for the scrubbiness of this question, but Im getting desperate. 70% of the time I play on a PAD. If you know nothing about pad play, please skip this post. But to any decent Gief using pad players, this question is for you:

Can you offer any tips on consistant SPD-ing with the pad?? I am so frickin inconsistant with it, making Gief just about unplayable. but Ive seen pad players who get it 9/10. I can do it with an empty jump OK. But when I try to tick it or anchor it(do a normal, motion during), I'm about 2/10 on a good day. If anyone can offer any advice on consistant SPD'ing with a pad, I'd be greatly appreciative. I do know about the whole "you dont have to do a full 360" idea, my question is more about the exact inputs you guys use. I know the Wolfe brothers are/were pad beasts, so if you guys check this thread, how did you guys do your SPDs? Id love to add gief to my repertoire, but I cant use my stick for online play and am condemned to be a pad scrub :) If I could get splash to cJab to SPD consistant, I could be scary w/ the drunken russian.



I play whit the D-Pad 100% of the time.
To do a SPD, just do a :hcb: :ub:.
Maybe you are doing the motion too slow or too fast...

[ThisGuileKillYa]

Hey guys, thanks! great answers. And fast too! lol

So just going to up-back is sufficient? i thought u had to do a full 3/4 circle, hence R, DR, D, DL, L, UL, U+P (sorry, dont know how to do those cool arrows hehe) if just going to upback works, thatd very helpful. And you're pretty consistant with that? i want to use gief so bad, but not being able to spd on the pad just makes it too frustrating. if I could get it even half the time, I'd be one happy camper. Also, silly question but maybe it's important here.. when i get to upback, do i hit punch RIGHT as I get to it? or right AFTER I get to it. 101, I know, but sometimes it seems like one will work, sometimes the other.

I remember once someone on kaillera told me an executional trick for 360s that surprised me. was like 2 yrs ago, wish id written it down. maybe it was something like hcb, tap up+p. ugh, i forgot lol I def need to try just rotating to upback!

[Master Bigode]

Hey guys, thanks! great answers. And fast too! lol

So just going to up-back is sufficient? i thought u had to do a full 3/4 circle, hence R, DR, D, DL, L, UL, U+P (sorry, dont know how to do those cool arrows hehe) if just going to upback works, thatd very helpful. And you're pretty consistant with that?
I can do it 95% of the time.
Sometimes I get too nervous and I lose the timing.
i want to use gief so bad, but not being able to spd on the pad just makes it too frustrating. if I could get it even half the time, I'd be one happy camper. Also, silly question but maybe it's important here.. when i get to upback, do i hit punch RIGHT as I get to it? or right AFTER I get to it. 101, I know, but sometimes it seems like one will work, sometimes the other.
You must press punch in the same time as you press :ub:

I remember once someone on kaillera told me an executional trick for 360s that surprised me. was like 2 yrs ago, wish id written it down. maybe it was something like hcb, tap up+p. ugh, i forgot lol I def need to try just rotating to upback!
I almost forgot, you can do :hcf::uf: as well.

[Don Calzone]

Thanks alot for the magnificent SPD-explaining UltraDavid. Really, you should add that to the Gief-section in the Wiki!

[King Of Bums]

Okay, 720, humanly impossible from standing (besides programmable pads which I don't have and are banned). 360, can get ticked in from the animation of crouching by doing hcb/hcf -> bu/fu +P. Just to get the facts strait. And I always play using a ps2 default controller, I'm rubbish with anything else.

[ThisGuileKillYa]

I tried to do the SPD with b, db, d, df, f, uf+p and failed every time. Then I asked afrolegends about being able to spd like that and he confirmed my suspicion that you have to do 3/4 of the motion. So you would have to, starting from left or right motioning downwards, end at UP! maybe that's what you're actually doing but it feels like upback/upfwd? All i know is I still can never seem to get it and its frustrating the shit out of me lol I'm toying with starting at up (anchoring it off my tick move) and have some success, but not enough. Back to the drawing board...

yeah i use ps2 as well. it's great other than, well, SPDs lol

[UltraDavid]

In order to play Zangief well you need to be able to do standing 360. You have to be able to do walk up spinning pile driver as well as standing running bear grab. If you can't, you really won't be able to take advantage of whiffed normals or do as well against certain characters as you could otherwise. Practice doing 360s after ticks, yeah, but also practice just doing standing 360.

Edit: And yeah, you have to do at least 3/4 of the 360 motion. I usually do a full 360, but I start drumming the punches when I get to 3/4. The reason I finish the motion is just to make absolutely sure that I get it out.

[Master Bigode]

I tried to do the SPD with b, db, d, df, f, uf+p and failed every time. Then I asked afrolegends about being able to spd like that and he confirmed my suspicion that you have to do 3/4 of the motion. So you would have to, starting from left or right motioning downwards, end at UP! maybe that's what you're actually doing but it feels like upback/upfwd? All i know is I still can never seem to get it and its frustrating the shit out of me lol I'm toying with starting at up (anchoring it off my tick move) and have some success, but not enough. Back to the drawing board...

yeah i use ps2 as well. it's great other than, well, SPDs lol

Strange, I have sure that I do it using a :hcb::ub:.
Not just in ST, but in all the capcom games that haves 360 motions.

Try doing it faster and whit the end of your finger.

[UltraDavid]

No offense Master Bigode, but I really don't want people to be misinformed: you need to do at least 3/4 of the 360 motion for the spd to come out, meaning at least 270 degrees of rotation. Half circle back to up-back won't work, and neither will half circle back to toward (something people frequently used to say). You can start at any point on the stick, but from that point you need to rotate it at least 270 degrees.

If I'm ticking into spd or punishing something from a standing position, I start at back and rotate through down-back, down, down-toward, toward, up-toward, and up, and then I start drumming the buttons, and then I finish the motion through to up-back and back while I'm drumming the buttons. The reasons I do a full circle from back through toward are to make sure that I have some leeway in the spd motion and to ensure I get it out, just in case I messed it up at the start or something, and also that this way there's no chance of a green hand coming out.

You have to be able to do spd from any direction, though. If I'm crouch blocking and see an opportunity, I go from down-back right to down, toward, up, back. If I'm walking toward the opponent, I go right into toward, down, back, up, toward. If you're walking, it's foolish to take the time to move the stick to back and start spd from there because that tiny sliver of time might mean you've lost your chance.


As for ticking into 720, it really isn't that hard. One thing you gotta know, though, is that the super's range is much smaller than the range of the spd, so you have to be right up close to the opponent and you can't use a tick string because it'll push you out of range. For the super to be in range you can really only use like one close jumping attack and then one standing tick, like close jumping down+short, crouching jab/short, super, or crossup fierce splash, crouching short/forward super, or close jumping down+forward, super, that kind of thing. Unfortunately, the normals that are most easy to buffer super through are also normals that can't be chained after (crouching short, crouching forward, close standing short), so you're really kinda placing all your eggs in the same basket there.

To do it with, for example, close crouching short, do back, down-back, down+short, down-toward, toward, up-toward, up, back-up, back, down-back, down, down-toward, toward, (short should be retracting), start drumming the punch buttons, up-toward, up, up-back, back. It sounds like a long motion when typing out, but this should be done pretty quickly. You don't have to break your hand off trying to go super fast, you can do it at the same speed as regular spd, it's just that you start the motion earlier so you can buffer it into the normal more easily.

You don't really have to tick into the super, either. If, for example, you're facing Ken and he just whiffed a fierce dp and he's coming down right in front of you, you don't have to actually tick into super, because after all, doing a tick means he gets a chance to reversal you before you can land the super. Instead, whiff something like crouching short or crouching forward and buffer the motion into it such that immediately upon Ken landing, you can drum the punches and have the super come out.

[King Of Bums]

SPD i got down, now put this in your pipe and smoke it...
Kara Banishing fist, discuss!!

[ThisGuileKillYa]

So I have this, um, friend who uses gief and he faces a Honda player who just does headbutts over and over. I've tried.. I mean my friend has tried rapid crouch Jabs, which stop it 10% of the time, and late lariats which beats it 30% of the time and my, you know, friend, is getting sick of it. What is this pathetic soul missing? or does honda get to win this one free? thanks in advance.

-Phucked in Phoenix

[rcaido]

Any tips on Ryu players who zone with constant fireballs? If i lariat they sweep...If i jump over they either do a jab dp or a jab button...Then they repeat...I guess the same goes wtih Guile...

What's a good attack that can at least trade hits or some jump in strats thanks...

[UltraDavid]

This is probably just gonna be stream of consciousness, by the way heh. Maybe I'll come back and edit it later.

Here's the thing about Zangief, is that once you're in you get to dictate the play of the match, but when you're out, against some characters, all you can do to get in is guess.

Against Honda, that's almost a lost match, it's a really hard counter. Honda can just do quarter circle back and hold it so that he has headbutt, butt slam, and command throw all available at the push of a button, meaning that not only does he become very difficult to walk toward or to jump at but difficult to tick throw as well. That said, there are certain things that can help you out: jumping down+forward beats or trades with non-invincible headbutts (ie anything other than close jab headbutts); low forward trades with headbutts on their startup; late-as-possible kick lariat beats headbutts pretty well; green hand beats headbutts for free if timed right; crouching jab and crouching strong beat headbutts pretty well if timed correctly; low jab beats slaps from max range; regular jumping forward can beat or trade with headbutts; standing forward, crouching strong, crouching jab, and standing short beat most of Honda's standing pokes; standing jab and punch lariat beat butt slam, and if you block butt slam you can (usually) get a reversal spd; if you get spd on Honda in the left corner of a stage, he doesn't bounce away, so you can get a free crossup splash; you can spd right through the middle of the slaps, even if they're hitting you. In general you want to use your pokes and lariats to annoy Honda into becoming such a stupid fortress that he won't use his charge moves until the very last second, which you hope will be too late. Walk up spd or running bear grab can be good too. If you're going to do jumping ticks, make sure that your ticks leave you outside of Honda's command grab range but still inside yours.

Ryu is a lot easier than Honda, he's actually one of Gief's better matchups; that's not to say that this match favors Gief, just that it's more even than lopsided. Basically just lariat through fireballs, switch it up between punch and kick so he doesn't always have time to walk up and sweep you. You can jump over fireballs too, but that's riskier. An occasional green hand is fine, although lariats are better. Lots of low roundhouse when potentially in range; it's super fast so it isn't really punishable on whiff, and it has great priority so if Ryu sticks any pokes out or tries to fireball you, he gets knocked down. Lots of standing forward to try stuff fireballs and cetera. There's a range you can stand at that's super-annoying for Ryu, basically where on reaction to a fireball you can do jumping short tick into spd or lariat through fireball or crouching roundhouse into a knockdown, so find that spot. When you have him knocked down, safe jump down+short into tick and/or spd. Oh, and lariats go through Ryu's super.

Guile is harder than Ryu, he's a better turtle against Gief for sure. It's hard for you to stand in a range where you can react favorably against a sonic boom because that's also in Guile's low forward range, and because he recovers really quickly from the boom. He can't charge for a flash kick while he's sonic booming, so you have a second or so there where he has no reversal, but again, it's hard to take advantage of that. Once you lariat/green hand into range, use a lot of Gief's good footsying ability with crouching roundhouse, standing short (which can beat Guile's low forward), and standing forward to annoy him into being hesitant about poking. Like always, when you knock him down, if possible, go for safe jump short into ticking/spd.

[rcaido]

Thanks for Gief tips...So how do you do a safe jump? Is there a video that shows this in real time action?

[ThisGuileKillYa]

SO I finally get the SPD down pretty well if I motion counter clockwise. but here's what I'm noticing, tell me if this makes any sense to anyone:

If I do it facing left, I get the green glove a lot. but the thing is, I end my motion at UP! Doesn't the glove motion end at DOWN? I could see if I was motioning so as to end at back or something, yeah.. could happen by accident. but I'm ending at UP!! And I'm not pressing the punch early. How in the hell am I getting green gloves all the time with a motion ending at up + punch!?!? It's getting really frustrating because I don't SPD so well clockwise. I don't think this is a fixable problem(other than swithcing my direction), i was just wondering if anyone knew WHY it might be happening. An explanation might make me less angry.

Oh and thanks for the vs honda tips UltraDavid. My "friend" did much better vs that Honda today :)

[UltraDavid]

I got nothin to cool you off other than to say that green hand seems to come out at strange times sometimes, and also that that's why I always do the 360 motion from back to towards. It's something you really need to learn.

Or you could play Old Gief, I guess. And that way you also don't have to deal with the stupid back/toward+strong/fierce hop. I've seen serious people use him, actually, but for me losing green hand, super, and throw teching isn't really worth it when the main reason to pick him over New Gief is just that your execution sucks.

[ThisGuileKillYa]

Hmm.. I didnt even think about old gief. Does old gief have any little advantages other than executional? And is his SPD range the same? I rarely use the super sadly, so that's not a bad thought.

[UltraDavid]

I was just messing around about Old Gief. I've seen people pick him, but I don't know why. I remember seeing some Jap vid where somebody uses him competently, and I'm assuming that guy wasn't picking him because he had execution problems, so there must be some benefit to him, I just don't know what it is. People used to say Old Gief had a faster walk speed, but if I recall correctly that myth was busted. His pokes and stuff probably have slightly different hitboxes, but I wouldn't know what those differences are because I've never spent much time with him. His 360 range is the same though, I can tell you that.

The super and green hand aren't hugely important, it's true, but both can be important in some situations, so I'd be hesitant to lose them. Being able to tech an opponent's normal throw also might not be a huge deal for Gief because opponents generally want to stay away and they rarely get a chance to normal throw him, but again, it can be important in some situations.

[Spirited_Away]

I think hit boxes are different a little just like how O.Hawk has bigger advantages because of how his hit boxes are arranged.

[rcaido]

Isn't the main advantage of O. gief is where he lands when he does the SPD....The original he lands right next to his opponent...The later series he is push further back preventing tick SPD over & over...

Can some tell me about safe jumps with Zangief please....

[UltraDavid]

I'm sure Old Gief has mildly different hit boxes on his moves, I just don't know the ways in which they differ. Could be advantageously, I just have no real experience with him. There are some characters where it's an open question or simple matter of preference as to whether the Old or New version is better, but Gief isn't really in that category.

Isn't the main advantage of O. gief is where he lands when he does the SPD....The original he lands right next to his opponent...The later series he is push further back preventing tick SPD over & over...
No, you're thinking of World Warrior Zangief, who's only playable in modern times in Hyper Street Fighter II: Anniversary Edition. I'm only talking about Super Street Fighter II: Turbo and the old characters in that game. Go to the wiki if you don't know about this.

Anyway, for safe jumping, if you don't know what it is you should check out this tutorial (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8dD3K2_Pz4) created by David Sirlin for the release of Super Turbo on CCC2. Basically it's where you jump against a character whose reversal doesn't hit for a few frames, so that even if the opponent does a reversal, you'll land safely, block it, and be able to do whatever you want. This is very important for Zangief because it means he can do a jumping tick with impunity on a lot of characters' wakeups. For the waking player the solution to this is to just wait to reversal until Gief has landed and is trying to do spd after a tick, so watch out for that. For Gief the best safe jump moves are jumping short, jumping down+short, jumping down+forward, and jumping fierce splash.

You can see Pony, one of the best Zangief players in the world (maybe the best), do it a few times here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNC8K-ihtXw) and here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZ2SQyaoE5Q&mode=related&search=). If you're wondering why the Guile player lets himself get hit when Pony jumps in, it's because he knows that Pony is safe jumping and he's trying to save his flash kick charge for the space between the ticks and the spd attempt, but Pony mixes up when he goes for spd well enough so that he doesn't get caught.

[Frank the Tank]

Here's a question I desperately need help with. What the fuck do I do against Chun? This is becoming more and more of a problem with the seemingly dramatic rise in the number of Chun players recently(at FRX I fought 4 players, all of them playing Chun...AAAAARRRRGGGGHHH). I've just been switching to Vega because I literally have no clue what I'm supposed to do in this fight. Help!

[azis]

They got to be kidding me!

Either this is a fake, or broken!

Look at the Vacuum pile dirver Glitch!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjH2X7gJMik&mode=related&search=

Is it real?

[wakeupsweep]

Yes, that's for real, I made that vid, world version only

[azis]

LOL! How hard is that?

May I just do a 360 the faster I can? I will everytime grab others? Just fireballs or any other, like... psycho crusher, headbut, blanka ball...?

[wakeupsweep]

Reversal? :confused:

The opponent has to be in a throwable state though

[UltraDavid]

Hm, I thought that only happened in Super, not Super Turbo. But it's only in the World version? If that's true then it's fine because nobody plays that version, so it'll never come up.

[fatboy]

Hm, I thought that only happened in Super, not Super Turbo. But it's only in the World version? If that's true then it's fine because nobody plays that version, so it'll never come up.

UltraDavid, I don't think you where suffing the part of the forum when this thing came up. :sweat:

So to get you up todate :wink: http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=129017

It shook thinks up a bit. But gave hella credit to the orignal posters.

[Master Bigode]

If that's true then it's fine because nobody plays that version, so it'll never come up.

Actually, everyone who doesn't live in US or Japan plays that version, and almost everyone from Kaillera plays it.

[UltraDavid]

Well how about that, how terribly unfortunate. Bigode did you guys get CCC2 out there? Was that a worldwide release? And I thought there was a general Asia version too?

Man, I'm learning new stuff about the two games I know the most about all over the place today hehe.

[Master Bigode]

Well how about that, how terribly unfortunate. Bigode did you guys get CCC2 out there? Was that a worldwide release? And I thought there was a general Asia version too?

CCC2 wasn't released here, but we can buy it since most VG stores import the games.
To say the truth, the PS family itself will never be officially released in South America.
I think CCC2 was only officially released in the US, I never heard of an European or a Japanese version of it....
We usually play the arcade version though.

[azis]

I played CCC2. I tried that Vacuum Glitch, but it didn´t work.

Either I suck or it doesn´t exist in CCC2.

Can any experienced Zangief player try that in CCC2 and tell us if that work or doesn´t?

[Master Bigode]

I played CCC2. I tried that Vacuum Glitch, but it didn´t work.

Either I suck or it doesn´t exist in CCC2.

Can any experienced Zangief player try that in CCC2 and tell us if that work or doesn´t?

The ST that is in CCC2 is the US 940323 version, and the glitch only works on the World 940223 version, you must use O.Zangief.

[azis]

Thanks!

[JubeiNinja69]

so what's the trick to doing a standing 360 spd consistently? so far i'm just rotating the joystick in a fast 360 motion and it comes out randomly. i have a slow wrist.

[Master Bigode]

so what's the trick to doing a standing 360 spd consistently? so far i'm just rotating the joystick in a fast 360 motion and it comes out randomly. i have a slow wrist.
IMO, the :hcf::uf:/:hcb::ub: motions are the most comfortable, and I can get a SPD to come out easily using then.
If you need to practice SPD motions, try playing SF EX2+, I've learned how to SPD consistently from it.

[JubeiNinja69]

wow i can confirm that :hcb::ub::u: most definitely works for me. master bigode i don't know how you got it working without adding an up motion, but it really helps me. i'm like getting standing spd like 9/10 times. i think it has to be at least a 270 degree motion like ultradavid said. now i'm gonna go practice the tick into super. i think it has it uses.

[Tiger Knee]

I always wondered about this, because in the "Street Fighter 2 Expert Players Handbook" (lol), which is for the SNES, Megadrive/Genesis and arcade Super SF2, it lists some weird ways to perform the SPD. It's also co-written by James Goddard, who worked on SF2' and Super I think?

It says to do it from standing you start at neutral and do :hcb::ub: like Master Bigode said. I assume if that works it's because of neutral counting as one of the points you have to pass for the "270".

The other motion listed is for walking in and it goes :hcb: then pass through neutral to go back to towards. That would be the same number of points as before, except you wouldn't even go through any of the jumping positions.

So does this work? I had a go on CCC2 ST and got the SPD from it a few times, but it could have been that I went to an up position without noticing. Also I edited this post because I misread the book.

[Roundhousepunch]

I think the best way to do a 360 is :hcf::ub:
I've read in this thread that you have at least do a 270 motion, but hcf + up/back works fine for me.

[X-Static]

I press up at the end of the SPD, but I press punch (someones I piano the buttons using 2 punches) when I get to the u/f or u/b part of the motion. That way, you will be more likely to get the SPD without jumping. Hope that helps.

[UltraDavid]

Pressing the buttons before you have the motion finished isn't a good idea. You'll probably still get the move out if you're moving the stick quickly enough, but you risk kara canceling a normal move into the spd, that is, bringing out a normal for a couple frames and canceling into a special move before the normal hits. This will make your spd come out a couple frames after it should, meaning that your tick will become less tight or your walk-up spd will come out less quickly, and that means the opponent has a better chance to escape and you're being less effective than you could be. Make sure to complete the necessary motion inputs before pressing punch.

Start pressing buttons when you get to the 270 degree mark because, regardless of what anyone says, 270 is the minimum required, and that has been shown by programmable-pad testing in Kawaks. So rotate the stick 270 degrees (aka back, down, toward, up), drum the buttons, and complete the full 360 motion just to make sure you get the move out.

[X-Static]

I guess I didn't explain very well. When I get to the last parts of the motion, I go fast, so it's more a timing thing for me, but your advice is much better. Pressing 2 punches is only done when I want to make sure that it is going to come out (you know how sometimes things can get hectic and you can do things too early or late). On a pad, I just press 1 punch button and do what you said, which works all the time.

Anyways, what are your thoughts on the Chun-li matchup? Almost a lost cause?

[NoAffinity]

SPD i got down, now put this in your pipe and smoke it...
Kara Banishing fist, discuss!!

Are we talking simply doing a kara banishing fist, or comboing it in a situation where banishing fist wouldn't be comboable (is it even comboable?)? Piano technique will get you a standard, no-frills kara banishing fist...but what would be the advantages?

[El Ton-K]

I don't know if this has been discussed or not but.

Does FAB grab reversal moves like T.Hawks super?
I know that the jumping splash in cross up beats some reversals like SRK

[Vyria]

My favorite SPD motion is :r::l::db::d::u:

[UltraDavid]

I don't know if this has been discussed or not but.

Does FAB grab reversal moves like T.Hawks super?
I know that the jumping splash in cross up beats some reversals like SRK
I'm not really sure what you're asking.

Are you asking if Gief's grab super takes priority over Hawk's grab super? Well, Gief's super has more range, but if both players are in range and input their super at the exact same frame, no, Gief's doesn't take priority; the game does what it always does when grabs are done on the same frame, which is to just randomly pick who gets the grab.

And yes, crossup jumping splash beats some reversals, like DeeJay's upkicks and Sagat's uppercut. It also lands before it can be hit by most other reversals (that is, it's a great safe jump, where if the opponent does nothing they have to block, but if they do a reversal you land before the reversal can hit you).

[BKB]

^ actually T.Hawk has more range on his super than Gief. Although, Gief's SPD appears to outrange T.Hawk completely.

[UltraDavid]

Hm, I just looked it up, and you're right. It's always seemed the other way to me.

[El Ton-K]

No, what I mean is hat T.Hawks super grabs reversals, I wanted to know if Gief's super grabs reversals as well

[UltraDavid]

Hawk's super grabs reversals? I guess it grabs reversal fireballs and psycho crushers, but I've never seen it grab reversal dragon punches.

[El Ton-K]

It does grab them, I've seen it and here's a vid proving it NKI (http://youtube.com/watch?v=yY3Yx9mT6Ks) I just wanted to know if Giefs' super grabs them too

[UltraDavid]

Just watched that vid, interesting stuff.

If you're talking about when Hawk supers Boxer's reversal, that reversal was a turn punch, which is totally throwable. If you're talking about when Hawk reversal supers Ryu's dragon punch, I guess the dragon punch has a throwable frame there, and I'm sure Gief's super could do the same thing.

[BKB]

I've 720'd DPs before with Hawk.

If gief can do it, Hawk can too. A grab is a grab right? Just gotta be in range, opponent is throw-able, yada yada.

[jchensor]

There is nothing significant about Hawk grabbing Ryu's DP in NKI's video. Well, okay, it IS really tough to do, and NKI pulling it off for the video was awesome. ^_^ But the reason it happens isn't because of anything special about Hawk's Super. Ryu (and Ken, actually) just has one frame of his DP where he can be thrown, right before he leaves the floor. And you just have to time it properly to grab him in that very frame.

Majestros does it as well in his video (http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=134486&page=5) at one point. It's really hard to see, but you'll see a sequence where Ken does a DP right when Guile lands in to the corner from a throw, and Guile throws him out of the DP (you really need to watch it frame by frame to see it happening).

So yeah, you don't even need Hawk's Super to grab Ryu out of that frame. You could have done it with the regular 360 if you wanted. And by that logic, Zangief can also grab Ryu out of that frame of the DP.

- James
http://jchensor.blogspot.com

[Fudd]

I'd like to ask your guys' input about his double German suplex (the 360+K move done within close range) I noticed it does more damage than SPD, but then again you can't do it at SPD range otherwise you get the "Touchdown!" move.

[UltraDavid]

The suplex is not something to be used often. It does more damage than spd, but because its range sucks you can't really do more than one very close tick before you hit it. Say Guile whiffs a flash kick and it just misses you; you could do suplex because it's more damaging than spd alone, but if you do crouching jab crouching short into spd you do more damage, and since Guile hasn't recharged his flash kick yet there's no chance of you getting hurt. If Ryu whiffs a dragon punch such that it just misses you, and you know the opponent if great at reversals so ticking into spd isn't a good idea, then doing suplex to punish is better.

That's not to say you should never tick into it. Close jumping roundhouse into suplex does almost half life, for example. But this is rare and situational and character specific, so don't get used to it. In general you wanna stick with piledrivers.

Also, the only version of this you should ever use is roundhouse, since not only does it do more damage, but it actually has considerably greater range than the short and forward.

[ShinAkuma204]

There is nothing significant about Hawk grabbing Ryu's DP in NKI's video. Well, okay, it IS really tough to do, and NKI pulling it off for the video was awesome. ^_^ But the reason it happens isn't because of anything special about Hawk's Super. Ryu (and Ken, actually) just has one frame of his DP where he can be thrown, right before he leaves the floor. And you just have to time it properly to grab him in that very frame.

Majestros does it as well in his video (http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=134486&page=5) at one point. It's really hard to see, but you'll see a sequence where Ken does a DP right when Guile lands in to the corner from a throw, and Guile throws him out of the DP (you really need to watch it frame by frame to see it happening).

So yeah, you don't even need Hawk's Super to grab Ryu out of that frame. You could have done it with the regular 360 if you wanted. And by that logic, Zangief can also grab Ryu out of that frame of the DP.

- James
http://jchensor.blogspot.com

That only works on new school DP's? Old characters are ungrabable in their DP?

[GamerTron]

No, what I mean is hat T.Hawks super grabs reversals, I wanted to know if Gief's super grabs reversals as well

yay, finally i have something to add, and i dont even really use gief. but anyway, sirlin's tutorials state that a dragon punch doesnt hit till after the 5th frame, so its safe to assume that you can throw during the first 4 frames.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8dD3K2_Pz4
watch the part about safe jumps

[El Ton-K]

Actually they are invincible during those frames. However they have a throwable frame but I'm not sure witch one it is

[GamerTron]

i thought you could SPD during the first 4 frames? idk, i dont really use command throwers, i like to DP reversal those darn throwers instead. = P

[UltraDavid]

No, those frames are invincible, but there's randomly a frame at the end of that that's throwable, like just before Ryu actually leaves his feet, around frame 5 or so. Not too useful for Zangief, though, since the dp will hit his spd whiff if he misses that one frame.

[Mokura]

I play whit the D-Pad 100% of the time.
To do a SPD, just do a :hcb: :ub:.
Maybe you are doing the motion too slow or too fast...

I'd skip that Up-Left..that's gonna make you jump prematurely; go straight to Up. And has anybody realized the benefit of reversing w/ an up-side down negative edge KICK 360 from REALLY close? Say, after Fei's "Chicken Wing"? It's fool-proof.

[jchensor]

That only works on new school DP's? Old characters are ungrabable in their DP?

If I'm not mistaken, that is correct. O.Ryu and O.Ken cannot be grabbed out of their DP's since they are completely invincible.

- James
http://jchensor.blogspot.com

[Professor Jones]

New Ryu and Ken are also completely invincible at the beginning of their dp's, but for a shorter time.

[NKI]

I'd like to ask your guys' input about his double German suplex (the 360+K move done within close range) I noticed it does more damage than SPD, but then again you can't do it at SPD range otherwise you get the "Touchdown!" move.Two good things about 360+K...

1) The close version fills up your meter 50%. :wow:
2) The far version grabs on the first possible frame, so you can set up perfectly timed ticks more easily.

An example of number 2, if you knock down Dic, you can do [cross-up splash, cr.Forward xx 360+RH], and Gief will grab Dic on the first possible frame. I haven't tested it, but it looks like Gief is outside of Dic's throw range when the 360 grabs, so if Dic doesn't have meter, it's a guaranteed tick, and it's really easy to do.

[Kuprin]

Yeah, I guess on Dic it's really no big deal that it's so telegraphed, because you can do it to him for free. Against some of the rest of the cast you can't get away with that shit lol...I'm trying to remember who else you can tick for free. Other giefs?

[NKI]

If you try to tick another Gief, he can SPD you first, for free, every time.

If the opponent has no charge, you can tick for free against Dic, Chun, Boxer, DeeJay, and Guile. If they do have a charge, you don't get any ticks for free.

[djfrijoles]

Ok guys i didn´t see it any where but I might have missed it but there is no mention of canceling a crouching jab or crouchin short ( or any other cancelable normal for that matter )

into a running bear grab. I´m guessing here because I´m not actually sure it really is a move you can go into from a cancel but dam it sure feels like it does!

I wondering if this is a good technique to be using because earlier in the thread it was explained that it grabs on the first possible frame so in theory doesn´t that only give them a

really minimum chance of escaping since (a) there is no whiff animation. And (b) he starts running BEFOR they can do anything since they are so deep in block or hit stun.

Isn´t it like the timing is actually being done for you like that ?

Lol, I sure hope I explained myself. Maybe only I understand what I´m trying to say!!!

[UltraDavid]

Yeah man, canceling into bear grab after like crouching short or forward is ok in some situations. If you do it close, it's a tight enough tick so that the opponent can't jump out, so that's cool. But usually there's no real reason to do this, since the bear grab does less damage and has some startup.

[X-Static]

I just wanted to point out a pretty good move that gets forgotten: Zangief's normal strong throw. This grab is great to start some pretty mean mind games because Zangief stays super close to the opponent. You are so close to the opponent that you can go for a crossup splash. I've been using this grab for awhile now, and it's great because it usually ends up resulting in an SPD anyways, so it's extra damage!

Also, you should always use a banishing fist after an SPD to close the gap and keep pressure on the opponent.

[djfrijoles]

Also, you should always use a banishing fist after an SPD to close the gap and keep pressure on the opponent.



I thought I saw Pony using Banishing Fists after bearly conecting crouching roundhouses to get good SPD tick range. You can see it here

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=panLrkRk0CQ

at the 1:50 mark (even though he misses the SPD ) :looney::looney::looney:

O but then he lands it at the 3:49 mark :rofl::rofl::rofl:
He actually gets good enough tick range to throw TWO standing shorts for the mix up!!!

[UltraDavid]

(even though he misses the SPD)
He didn't miss the spd, he was expecting Ryu to super and tried to jump out of the way. But yeah, green hand after crouching roundhouse is good just make sure you do it such that you'll recover before your opponent.

[polarity]

So what's the deal with the distance you land away from your opponent after an SPD in the corner? Sometimes I'll land real close while sometimes I'm put further away...

[Kuprin]

As far as I can tell it's partly random and partly based on the strength of the SPD you used.

[Fudd]

I think based on which direction your SPD motion ended with also determines it, but I'm not certain.

[polarity]

Yeah, from the minimal testing I've done it seems if you do a clockwise rotation and end at up, you move backwards, but if you end at u/f, you go forward. Conversely, an anticlockwise rotation ending at up/back will move you backwards, while ending at up moves you forward. If anyone wants to test it frame-by-frame in Kawaks or something that'd be cool.

[djfrijoles]

I personaly play a lot of matches against Honda and whenever I´m in the corner and
manage to get in a jab SPD I always land right next to them. I´m talking zero distance between us.

Sets up a crossup splah perfectly everytime. 2 SPD´S for the price of one!!!
So maybe it has to do with who your opponent is combined with the strength you decide to use for the SPD.

I´ll do some testing and come back and post the results guys because this could be really benificial to us if we can control it. I´ll test in the corner and if someone else wants to test in the center of the screen, be my guest!!!

[djfrijoles]

Ok guys listen up because I found some intresting stuff here!!!

I did some tests just now using mame 0.64 on the ST world 940223 version.

I used the left corner ( p1 side ) in a match against Honda ( I decided to pick him since he is
one of the tuffer match ups ) and with zero space in between us.

I did a total of three SPD´S with each punch button and got consistent results EVERY TIME!!!
You know what that means right ? = WE CAN CONTROLTHIS SHIT YO!!!

With a motion of twoard ending at up Zangief lands right next to Honda with Zangief spinning in a backards ( twoard the p2 corner ) motion. Same results with all three punches

With a motion of twoard ending at uptwoards Zangief begins spinning in a forward motion
( twoard the p2 corner ) and Honda landed far away everytime.
Same results with all three punches

I´t looks like the results depend on where you end the SPD motion.
When facing right, anything ending at somewhere with back in it or straight up or down, you get a spinning motion in the backwards direction.

Anything ending at somewhere with twoard, Zangief begins spinning in the forward direction.
I hope my contribiution helps yall and if someone wants me to test against another opponent
just let me know.

*final note*
I did a couple in the center of the screen and got the same results as in the corner.

Lol, I hope this wasn´t common knowledge to everyone because it´s new to me and I´m excited =)

[caliagent#3]

:confused: wow you guys didn't know you can control the SPD????



I just wanted to point out a pretty good move that gets forgotten: Zangief's normal strong throw. This grab is great to start some pretty mean mind games because Zangief stays super close to the opponent. You are so close to the opponent that you can go for a crossup splash. I've been using this grab for awhile now, and it's great because it usually ends up resulting in an SPD anyways, so it's extra damage!

Also, you should always use a banishing fist after an SPD to close the gap and keep pressure on the opponent.


Yeah, i've always used his strong throw, it's so good. Also, don't forget you can do defensive throws too. When you block you can just option select by just tapping both strong and fierce to get a throw if your opp messes up a combo,block string, or tries to tick throw.

[X-Static]

:confused: wow you guys didn't know you can control the SPD????






Yeah, i've always used his strong throw, it's so good. Also, don't forget you can do defensive throws too. When you block you can just option select by just tapping both strong and fierce to get a throw if your opp messes up a combo,block string, or tries to tick throw.

Good stuff. Thanks for the tip.

[rcaido]

On Hyper Fighting, what are some good anti air besides a lariat?

[caliagent#3]

On Hyper Fighting, what are some good anti air besides a lariat?

s.jab. But lariat and c.lariat are his best AAs. Also the HF thread is here: http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=113811&page=29

[Fudd]

So a lot of times when I'm doing cross-up body splash, tick throw into SPD I get thrown like 90% of the time after the cross-up, I never get to tick.

Is my timing on the splash just not right or what am I doing wrong here? What can I do to fix it? Is there some kind of mix-up I can use here?

[NKI]

Use cr.Jabs to push them out of their throw range first, then SPD.

For example, against Dic: cross-up splash, cr.Jab x3, SPD.

[UltraDavid]

Your timing on the splash is probably off, you wanna do it as late as possible. And make sure that you press jab at the first chance, too. There are plenty of mixups after the splash, but don't mix up the timing of the splash itself, there's no reason to do that.

[insomnotek]

yeah, if you are getting thrown after they block your splash, then you are doing it too early. try to do it later

[djfrijoles]

Man I hate the advanced Blanka players match up.

They know it's super hard to stop that jumping bastard. Then if they decide to stay on the ground and you try to jump at them they use that face scratch move ( I'm not even sure what button it is. I think it's standing strong.) I even tried jumping at him with a meaty jab lol!!!

Then if I try Running Bear Grab, his normals come out fast enough to stop it on reaction.
Some vs Blanka strats please?

[X-Static]

Man I hate the advanced Blanka players match up.

They know it's super hard to stop that jumping bastard. Then if they decide to stay on the ground and you try to jump at them they use that face scratch move ( I'm not even sure what button it is. I think it's standing strong.) I even tried jumping at him with a meaty jab lol!!!

Then if I try Running Bear Grab, his normals come out fast enough to stop it on reaction.
Some vs Blanka strats please?

The main thing Blanka wants to do is turtle against Zangief. This is one of very few matches where he turtles. Don't be scared of a jumpy Blanka; it plays in your favour. I never jump on Gief.

Blanka is going to use his s.strong and s.RH to stop your jump-in attacks. If you stop jumping, he will use his c.fierce c.RH. You want this to happen. I know that sounds stupid, but bear with me. Try to use your c.RH to hopefully trade with something to get a knockdown. Jump VERY seldomly because making him guess will mean a mistake eventually. If you stay at his c.RH range, you can jump when he becomes predictable.

When you are in close, do not do a jumping meaty because his vertical ball will beat you or at least trade. Make sure you are out of his bite range when going for wake-up ground meaties. Be sure to make him guess.

Use c.jab in case he goes vertical ball happy. You can get in close after you beat it.

Being a Gief users as well, I know this can be a tough match-up. Just hope to score a knockdown and employ mind-games. The key to the match is to be patient and not to use too much jumping. That's the best advice I can give. I'm no expert, though.

[X-Static]

Here's a vid to illustrate my point. When blanka jumps in, it usually is to his disadvantage. Be patient.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GixF0sfFGbI

[Shin00bi]

L2P geif here. With the First question being, how the hell do you pull off a standing FAB? I can get it in with a jump in tick, but some people and videos show that FAB can be done from standing. Please someone explain how the hell this works.

I know this has been answered several ways, but I'd like to affirm, that I can only do this with a Japanese arcade stick (my own custom one for example). I've never been able to do it much at all on the american/happ joysticks. More specifically, I've only confirmed this on a standard 8-way Seimitsu. Tons more consistency for me on that style of controller.

[djfrijoles]

I'm not trying to steal credit or anything but you guys have to see this. I know it has nothing to do with strategy but I think you guys might like it.

***Credit goes to nohoho for the link***

http://youtube.com/watch?v=z9uxX5aOj9c

[djfrijoles]

Got something els for us. I just went back over the whole thread and didn't see it mentioned so I'll post it up. 720 does NOT have to be entirely completed. You can do it from
a straight jump up and roll directly from up and complete the first 360 then start the next 360 and finish at either toward or back ( depending on which way you are spinning )

I wanted to post it because I remember it being said that 720 HAD to be entirely completed and I thought it was in here but it must have been somewhere else.

[Kuprin]

I know this has been answered several ways, but I'd like to affirm, that I can only do this with a Japanese arcade stick (my own custom one for example). I've never been able to do it much at all on the american/happ joysticks. More specifically, I've only confirmed this on a standard 8-way Seimitsu. Tons more consistency for me on that style of controller.

It works in a very simple way: spin the stick really fucking fast. I can't do it. Heck, I can't even standing 360 on ST yet.

[Don Calzone]

It works in a very simple way: spin the stick really fucking fast. I can't do it. Heck, I can't even standing 360 on ST yet.

I think it's really important that you spin it in a correct way as well, if you spin it hella fast the risk are that you mess it up. I can spin it very fast, but grabs very seldom comes out because I manage to do it too sloppy or something. Master the perfect spin, then work on your speed.

[Don Calzone]

One other thing, I try to do the 360 motion toward the direction I'm facing. If I'm facing to the right, I do left, down, right, up, punch, and if I'm facing to the left I do the opposite. The reason for this is that it skirts the possibility of accidentally getting a green hand out instead of the 360.


About this... If you're about to punish something with say a walk up spd, do you still do the 360 motion towards your opponent? The reason I ask is because when you walk up to the opponent you are of course pressing forward; doing the 360 motion towards means that you'll have to change the direction to backwards and then proceeding doing the 360. But as anyone will notice if they try it, it will take a little little extra time and you risk messing it up as well - wouldn't this be the case were you should actually do the 360 backwards?

I hope someone understands what I'm trying to say here...

[Sevenskirt]

Sorry guys for interrupting but I don't understand this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wd35oKZREq0)... I do understand that the Dhalsim player avoids getting Piledriven but why does he teleport?
I know Dhalsim hasn't got any good Reversals but is it impossible to attempt a reversal throw?
Why didn't he just jump out of the Piledriver attempts?
I'm pretty sure Dhalsim can choose the direction he'd like to teleport to (please prove me if I'm wrong), so why don't teleport to the right?

[ramza]

Sorry guys for interrupting but I don't understand this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wd35oKZREq0)... I do understand that the Dhalsim player avoids getting Piledriven but why does he teleport?
I know Dhalsim hasn't got any good Reversals but is it impossible to attempt a reversal throw?
Why didn't he just jump out of the Piledriver attempts?
I'm pretty sure Dhalsim can choose the direction he'd like to teleport to (please prove me if I'm wrong), so why don't teleport to the right?

teleport is his only reversal. you can only reversal throw if the other guy is in your throw range, which the gief player seemed to make sure he was out of. you can't jump out of tick throws in this game because you can get thrown out of jump start up frames, and throws have zero start up. lastly, i think there's a glitch with sim's teleport that causes him to teleport based on the last button you pressed BEFORE u started teleporting?(not sure), hopefully that's fixed for sthd.

[BKB]

^ A Reversal Teleport Will Often Just Teleport You To The Exact Same Place.. Giving Gief A Free Spd Or Combo.

[ramza]

^ A Reversal Teleport Will Often Just Teleport You To The Exact Same Place.. Giving Gief A Free Spd Or Combo.

well, that's what doesn't make sense...if you did the motion for fullscreen why would it send it right back where you came from?:wtf:

[UltraDavid]

It's a glitch, like you said.

[Sevenskirt]

Thanks ALOT guys^^
I didn't know that it's a glitch nor did I know that jumps have got start-up frames.

[djfrijoles]

OK so here I come with a contraversial topic. At first I chalked it off to my eyes playing tricks on me A LOT. I have seen Zangief's 720 whiff. A LOT. The gleem thing from his eyes actually starts up but some NON-REVERSAL move has beat it out. Although the eyeball thing starts up, the super sound ( rizzzzzzzzzzzz ) wont start up. Well two days ago I saw what finally pushed me to post. Zangief went through his whole whiff animation with the eyeball thing shooting outta his face but no sound.

Before you dissagree with me, remember that ST is a pretty random game at times and with more than a couple glitches. Oh and don't forget the whiffed/connected vacumm 720 vid.

I don't remeber where it was posted ( the wikki I think ) but it was previously written that if his super starts up, it means it is gonna connect. I'm going to declare here the contrary.
It IS possible to wfiff 720. Here is something to add. The one thing that will not happen is the loss of your meter. In every instance that I have wittnessed this, I have never lost my meter.

If anyone has a clue on the properties involved, please fill me in. I'm guessing it's more of a glitch than it actually being programmed into the game

[Hellion]

hopefully that's fixed for sthd.

I don't get it, which mode are they gonna play STHD in, classic or "fixed?"
If all this stuff is fixed, wouldn't that effectively alter some of the strats and matchups to the degree where it's a completely different game, not just ST with updated sprites?

[ramza]

i meant the remix

i'm pretty sure at the time i posted that there was no mention of them releasing the classic ST along with the remix

[fr3dsk1]

i meant the remix

i'm pretty sure at the time i posted that there was no mention of them releasing the classic ST along with the remix

Ahh really?
I thought that there was gonna be classic ST?
Redrawn sprites but everything else the same.

Correct me If I'm wrong here

[mad possum]

OK so here I come with a contraversial topic. At first I chalked it off to my eyes playing tricks on me A LOT. I have seen Zangief's 720 whiff. A LOT. The gleem thing from his eyes actually starts up but some NON-REVERSAL move has beat it out. Although the eyeball thing starts up, the super sound ( rizzzzzzzzzzzz ) wont start up. Well two days ago I saw what finally pushed me to post. Zangief went through his whole whiff animation with the eyeball thing shooting outta his face but no sound.

Before you dissagree with me, remember that ST is a pretty random game at times and with more than a couple glitches. Oh and don't forget the whiffed/connected vacumm 720 vid.

I don't remeber where it was posted ( the wikki I think ) but it was previously written that if his super starts up, it means it is gonna connect. I'm going to declare here the contrary.
It IS possible to wfiff 720. Here is something to add. The one thing that will not happen is the loss of your meter. In every instance that I have wittnessed this, I have never lost my meter.

If anyone has a clue on the properties involved, please fill me in. I'm guessing it's more of a glitch than it actually being programmed into the game




Interesting, you need to get this recorded I'd like to see it. Isn't 720 invincible on start-up? I know I've 720'd through meaty's on wake-up many times and through pokes. Do you remember what pokes hit you out of it? I have seen 'Geif start the wiff animation and then cancel into an SPD or 720, could it be somthing like this?

[djfrijoles]

Interesting, you need to get this recorded I'd like to see it. Isn't 720 invincible on start-up? I know I've 720'd through meaty's on wake-up many times and through pokes. Do you remember what pokes hit you out of it? I have seen 'Geif start the wiff animation and then cancel into an SPD or 720, could it be somthing like this?


Yea ok I'll try to get it recorded. Maybe I shoulda came with proof befor I posted.
I'm pretty confident I can reproduce this again. I'll come back once I have proof.

[COUM]

i meant the remix

i'm pretty sure at the time i posted that there was no mention of them releasing the classic ST along with the remix

it was originally going to be just a visual upgrade to classic st..... the remix wasnt announced until later

[mad possum]

Yea ok I'll try to get it recorded. Maybe I shoulda came with proof befor I posted.
I'm pretty confident I can reproduce this again. I'll come back once I have proof.


LOL, it's not that I didn't believe you I just want to see if I can tell what's going on by seeing it.

[Kuenai]

Anyone know what 'Gief's best kara option is?

[UltraDavid]

Kara? This isn't Third Strike, you don't purposely kara cancel throws. Kara canceling is important for some combos into super, but that's not applicable for Zangief. Occasionally I've kara canceled standing jab into spd, but that's not worth trying because it's risky, it doesn't increase range, and it adds in an extra couple of frames, which is bad if you're ticking into spd or doing walkup spd (basically... every time).

[Kuenai]

Kara? This isn't Third Strike, you don't purposely kara cancel throws. Kara canceling is important for some combos into super, but that's not applicable for Zangief. Occasionally I've kara canceled standing jab into spd, but that's not worth trying because it's risky, it doesn't increase range, and it adds in an extra couple of frames, which is bad if you're ticking into spd or doing walkup spd (basically... every time).

I respectfully disagree. Strongly. Example: I scare a player into blocking after knockdown. On wakeup, he can't be thrown for 13 frames, so I walk up and whiff cr.short>360. He went into block animation, cutting the no-throw window short, but didn't go into block stun, so I could still throw.

Karas are useful. They're just situational.

Does anyone want to actually give a helpful response?

[UltraDavid]

Well... they're not useful. But good luck, I suppose.

[SuperStar]

what would your Zangief do if my E.Honda is doing "hold back,,,,,,F+ Fierce" (flying head butt)from a long distance on ST??
What would you do from an average distance (half as long)???
just curious.

[brian]

do the non hitting frames of moves actually put your opponent in block animation, and if so does that really cut short the cannot-be thrown frames after being knocked down?

If so that does sound like a pretty cool use of kara throwing.

[fatboy]

what would your Zangief do if my E.Honda is doing "hold back,,,,,,F+ Fierce" (flying head butt)from a long distance on ST??
What would you do from an average distance (half as long)???
just curious.

Spinning Clothes Line... Or Crouching Jab

[SuperStar]

Spinning Clothes Line... Or Crouching Jab

I think I've tried Zangief's jab+Strong+fierce & still got hit lots of times by Honda's fast head butt doesn't matter the timing . 3P may work (at least Honda got hit as well) if ST Zangief still have the invincibility on the 1st few frames of the 3P like he had in Champion Edition but this is not the case.

I think I tried crouching jabs too but Zangief is the only one got hit (most of the time anyway).

[Fudd]

what would your Zangief do if my E.Honda is doing "hold back,,,,,,F+ Fierce" (flying head butt)from a long distance on ST??
What would you do from an average distance (half as long)???
just curious.

Try the kick lariat, it has better priority.
Read the first page of the thread. UltraDavid gives a pretty good breakdown of gief's options versus Honda. I think s. Roundhouse can beat it too if you time it right.

[Madspunky]

Sup guys.

One of the biggest troubles I have is countering Chun Li's jumping forwards. A friend of mine will often do a jumping forward, then low forward/standing strong/Lightning Kicks/throw.
I can't seem to anti-air with any moves consistantly (sometimes I get lucky with jumping fierce).
I've tried blocking the jumping forward and then doing a SPD, but so far to no avail (maybe this is possible and I need to time it better?)

I watched some videos on Youtube between Zangief and Chun Li and it always seems like Chun is trying to keep away from Zangief, never jumping in. So I imagine I'm doing something wrong.

[KayinNasaki]

Two questions. Anything on the Dhalsim matchup? Seems to be a lot of dropkick trading -- is there anything else I know (Such as stuff Sim will try and do if I don't understand the counter)? I've found Green Hand surprisingly good for getting close and trading, but I don't know how viable that actually is.

Second, what are some good uses for Gief's normals (besides as ticks)? In non ticking situations I just live of of standing medium kicks, crouching round houses and jabs, yet I've heard Gief's normals are all pretty useful.

[caliagent#3]

Sup guys.

One of the biggest troubles I have is countering Chun Li's jumping forwards. A friend of mine will often do a jumping forward, then low forward/standing strong/Lightning Kicks/throw.
I can't seem to anti-air with any moves consistantly (sometimes I get lucky with jumping fierce).
I've tried blocking the jumping forward and then doing a SPD, but so far to no avail (maybe this is possible and I need to time it better?)

I watched some videos on Youtube between Zangief and Chun Li and it always seems like Chun is trying to keep away from Zangief, never jumping in. So I imagine I'm doing something wrong.

Try crouching right before you lariat or anticipate her jumping and do j.strong. But yea, people who sit there and try to play keep away are the hardest matches for gief. It's usually easier if your opp. is a trying to get in.

[Madspunky]

Crouching into Lariat as anti-air, what a grand idea! I'll try that out next time, thanks!

[Kuenai]

Two questions. Anything on the Dhalsim matchup? Seems to be a lot of dropkick trading -- is there anything else I know (Such as stuff Sim will try and do if I don't understand the counter)? I've found Green Hand surprisingly good for getting close and trading, but I don't know how viable that actually is.

Second, what are some good uses for Gief's normals (besides as ticks)? In non ticking situations I just live of of standing medium kicks, crouching round houses and jabs, yet I've heard Gief's normals are all pretty useful.

Jumping strong is good, as well as close standing jab as an anti-air. In the same way that lariat is. Especially against things like walldive. Standing roundhouse is GREAT as a far anti-air. It straight up beats out or at least trades with everything, too. Can't even begin to tell you how useful it is when somone is trying to escape from the corner.


Madspunky: Standing far roundhouse will be quite useful for your needs, too. You'll most likely trade, but you can walk right up against her as she's knocked away even after the trade. Then you have some great mixup options: Sweep with cr. RH, whiff a move into 360, or jump over her and start repeatedly splashing (j. down+fierce) until you're in range to tick into 360, which she won't be able to beat unless she takes the hit crouching, in which case you can combo into a sweep, then it's game over for her. Long story short, if you guess right after knocking her out of the air, it's game over for Chun.

[Madspunky]

caliagent#3 and Kuenai, thanks for your input, but it seems I'm back at square one: I've tried both ducking Lariat and Standing Roundhouse, but these are the results against a ChunLi player friend of mine:
Ducking Lariat just does not work :( Zangief just gets hit, even when timed at the last second.
Standing Roundhouse only trades hits when ChunLi jumps in at the right distance (indeed, from far) and the timing needs to be pretty precise. Roughly three out of four times the hits trade with her jumping Forward. After I hit her, she falls really far back, not giving the mindgame you describe!

This is what I found out playing four or five games. Maybe I'm timing things wrong, maybe Anniversery Edition (PS2) is wrong in some ways?

But alright, blocking her jumping forward is easy, it's the Strong punch/Throw mindgame she does after that that gets me. Here's the problem in short:

I have a hard time reversing the throw attempt: Lariat doesn't seem to come out, I try to do Spinning Piledriver between the Strong punches/throws, but I guess my timing's wrong. So far, the best luck I've had is to bash away and Strong hoping to do a reversal throw.
Perhaps there are better ways for Zangief to stop ChunLi's Jumping Forward, Standing Strong, Throw/Crouching Roundhouse mindgames?

[Kyokuji]

If you don't have a reversal with a lot of invincibility on it then you don't have a straight counter to Chun's jump MK. That's the whole reason why 'Sim struggles a little with her. The reason people don't jump at 'Gief a lot is that if they mis-time their block string/combo in any way, they're gonna eat a reversal 360/720.
Just block or stay outside of its range. The other way is to knock her out of the air early with your own air to air.

Chun' can't really go tick throw crazy on 'Gief, Honda or Hawk, so it's not like her jump-ins are all that scary anyway, and all she's doing is putting herself in a range where you can work. Her anti-air is lousy, so just keep coming down on her after you get in range.

Honestly, it just sounds like you need to work on your reversal timing.

[UltraDavid]

Just block her jump-in, you don't have anything good against it except for at a unlikely angles (right underneath her, for example). Something you gotta learn is how to constantly buffer in spds when the opponent is up close to you. So block the jump-in, immediately rotate the stick from back to up to toward to down to down-back while in block stun, then drum the fierce and strong punches. If your opponent leaves open any space in his block string, like if he's trying to throw, you'll throw him instead; if he instead continues his block string, you'll just crouch block it. Keep this up while your Chun friend is doing strong-strong-strong in front of you; worst case, you'll tech a throw, neutral case you'll just block until he stops doing it, but more likely you'll get a free spd every time. Your friend will quit doing that kind of pressure pretty quickly, if'n he knows what's good for him.

This can be risky against characters with dragon punches and against Chun if she's walking toward you with stored super, but otherwise it's a good plan.

[Madspunky]

Thanks guys, indeed, I have not been timing my 360s right; been doing Away-Down-Toward-Up-Fierce, instead of a motion that has you blocking at the end, and drumming two buttons. Realising this makes me feel rather stupid.
Can't wait to try this stuff out!

[Kuenai]

If you can't get Chun with crouch into lariat, then you're timing it wrong. I play Chun as my main, and I know the properties for jumping forward at all heights, and lariat wins if properly timed EVERY TIME. As far as her doing the jump-in forward into strong/throw games: Lariat is your friend.

[UltraDavid]

Lariat won't beat Chun's jump-ins from max range, which is the only range a decent Chun will jump at against Zangief. Also, lariats are a bad way to deal with strong-strong pressure both because they're throwable and because they're vulnerable to low forward and low roundhouse.

[Kyokuji]

No point in trying to reversal lariat when you can just reversal 360 from way farther back instead.

[Mike C]

how the hell do you beat claw?

[Rikidozan]

EDIT: I finally got it down, gotta spin more fluidly - repeats to myself :"This is not Hawk"

[caliagent#3]

how the hell do you beat claw?

J.strong and lariat as AA vs claw dive
Lariat > rolling ball and punch attacks
sweep > slide
Early crossup splash > flip kick
Block

The match is still hard as hell though if the vega player knows what he's doing.

[Mike C]

thanks. You sure about lariat as aa tho. it didnt seem to work too good when i used it.i was using punch lariat tho so i guess ill try k lariat

[insomnotek]

vs. claw (imo)

score a knockdown, deep crossup splashes to avoid/beat flipkick into tick 360/720 if blocked or combo lariat for another knockdown. rinse repeat.

kick lariat usually beats his crystal flash roll and his crouching punches at range, but if he starts hitting standing fierce, then youre screwed.

kick lariat also seems to beat out his wall dive cheapness if he tries to do it too deep. if he ranges it out however, then youll get beat but then you should be able to block easily since hes not so deep and ambiguous. if he does the wall dive early/far away, try to counter jump it and smack him out of the air; air throw his ass if you are elite. d/f+fierce air throw has an awesome animation that will strike fear in all ugly spaniards

if you get good pressure going on and he tries to backflip away, walk up and sweep or greenhand and sweep. dont let him reset like that.

[caliagent#3]

thanks. You sure about lariat as aa tho. it didnt seem to work too good when i used it.i was using punch lariat tho so i guess ill try k lariat

Lariat should work as long as the wall dive doesn't hit slightly in front/behind zangief. One counter lariat should set you up nicely for an SPD, so it's kinda risky for vega to do.

[UltraDavid]

Ways to deal with wall dives:

If you're close to the wall he's jumping off of or he's flying high: jumping toward jab/strong
If it's coming vertically down on top of your head and you're standing: close standing jab or duck into punch lariat
If it's coming vertically down and you're getting up: wakeup punch lariat
If it's going to whiff: crouching roundhouse or green hand
If it's the horizontal punch dive: punch lariat (good luck seeing this one come out on reaction)
If it's coming far in front of you so that it barely hits and you're standing: crouching fierce
If it's coming far in front of you so that it barely hits and you're just getting up: block
If it's coming horizontally over your head: block
If it's going to like, hit you in the shoulder: block

Don't expect a good Claw to do any of those first ones too often. And even for the dives you can hit, Claw can vary his timing really easily, so while jumping strong or crouching fierce work when the timing is right, that timing could easily be off and you could eat some damage and a knockdown. Basically, like for most characters, wall dives are hard for Zangief to deal with.

[duffath]

I'm a relatively new player, and I like playing as gief, frustrating as it can be sometimes. I had a few queries about things.

I was actually interested about recommended SPD grab strength. I've been told stronger punches increase damage but lower the grab range. As such I've been using Jab SPDs almost exclusively. Is this standard or should I normally go for a different one? It seems to me the range is the best part (and jab SPD has pretty good damage anyway) so I mainly use the jab version. out of habit I use Jab, although I do realise when I'm landing from a jumping approach on someone trapped in a corner (or crossing up which seems to put you at point blank range) that I should have used fierce (right?). Is using the jab version a bad habit I need to break for a different strength or is it just something that comes with experience as you alter it on the fly at all times during any match?


I know it was covered earlier in the thread, but I was looking for a bit more clarification on guile and honda.

I was also wondering about Guile a bit. It seems to be insanely hard to close on him, yes that's the point of guile, but whenever I lariat through a sonic boom I end up getting swept or chipped with his c.forward. I know this is partly me going too close, but what are the best ways to poke him? I have much love for Gief's C.roundhouse, but it often seems like there just isn't enough range on it, especially on Guile.

Also if you had any tips on closing on honda it'd be good too. Jumping fierce splash seems to work great on long range sumo headbutt, but the jab one has it's invincibility frames (so I'm told) which means pretty much nothing goes through it.


Edit: on the subject of wall-dives I find the Jumping Forward and Roundhouse are good for beating out a far wall dive if he's aiming to land right on top of you. My friend plays claw and now has to compensate by jumping close to the far wall and hitting me as I stupidly jump into the edge of it.

[UltraDavid]

Sorry in advance if there are super typos n here, my keyboard's "i" key s gong in and out.

I used to think the different spd strengths had different ranges, but I'm pretty sure that's not the case now, and NKI's translation of T Akiba's data confirms (http://nki.combovideos.com/data.html#distance) that. But they definitely do deal different amounts of damage, and the difference is enough so that you basically shouldn't bother wth jab. Because the ranges are the same, you shouldn't be pressing just one button for spd at all, you should be pressing two because they do the same thing and you want as many inputs as possible to make sure your spd comes out. You should also only press two punch buttons because you don't want to get a lariat accidentally. Put all this together and t means you should drum strong and fierce whenever you want to try spd. Notably, the close 360+k move doesn't work like this, the roundhouse version of the atomc suplex has consderably better range and damage, so you always want to do that one. The far 360+k, running bear grab, has virtually the same range for each strength and the same damage, but the short version has better startup than the others, so you should always use that.

I'll get to the rest later, but just know that jumping forward/roundhouse get eaten up by a dives from pretty much all angles and all early dives, and they don't beat as many kinds as jumpng jab/strong. None of these is a good option, but f you have to pck one go with jab/strong.

[fatboy]

Sorry in advance if there are super typos n here, my keyboard's "i" key s gong in and out.

I used to think the different spd strengths had different ranges, but I'm pretty sure that's not the case now, and NKI's translation of T Akiba's data confirms (http://nki.combovideos.com/data.html#distance) that. But they definitely do deal different amounts of damage, and the difference is enough so that you basically shouldn't bother wth jab. Because the ranges are the same, you shouldn't be pressing just one button for spd at all, you should be pressing two because they do the same thing and you want as many inputs as possible to make sure your spd comes out. You should also only press two punch buttons because you don't want to get a lariat accidentally. Put all this together and t means you should drum strong and fierce whenever you want to try spd. Notably, the close 360+k move doesn't work like this, the roundhouse version of the atomc suplex has consderably better range and damage, so you always want to do that one. The far 360+k, running bear grab, has virtually the same range for each strength and the same damage, but the short version has better startup than the others, so you should always use that.

I'll get to the rest later, but just know that jumping forward/roundhouse get eaten up by a dives from pretty much all angles and all early dives, and they don't beat as many kinds as jumpng jab/strong. None of these is a good option, but f you have to pck one go with jab/strong.

Ehhh...hemm........

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?p=4835230#post4835230

First couple posts! LOL.... J/k You know I love ya! :lovin:

Specfically:

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=4834752&postcount=102

See, I am not crazy, at leat that what the voices in my head tell tell me! :looney:

But shoot, honestly it would not be the first time I was/would have been wrong. I seem to make that a habit here and there!

See you on GGPO buddy! Got to get more of that O.Honda action!

[duffath]

Thanks for the input on that. I'd like to expand my enquiry by checking if there is any actual difference between the different strengths on the SPD. (I think I'm using the world version of ST btw) You say range is no different and i know the damage changes, but is there anything that makes the Fierce SPD harder to get than the Jab? I tried switching over to the fierce and it became immensely hard to fierce and strong SPD from a standing tick. It didn't help that it made the whole thing quite frustrating which probably shot up my practice effort a fair bit, but then going back to jab SPDs I can pull them off way more consistently. Is this something to do with me or is there any other difference in SPD strengths that will affect the consistency with which I pull them off?

[Chrisis]

The main issue with fierce IINM is if you miss it he does that please hit me (AKA missed grab) animation for longer.

[duffath]

Ehhh...hemm........

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?p=4835230#post4835230

First couple posts! LOL.... J/k You know I love ya! :lovin:

Specfically:

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=4834752&postcount=102

See, I am not crazy, at leat that what the voices in my head tell tell me! :looney:

But shoot, honestly it would not be the first time I was/would have been wrong. I seem to make that a habit here and there!

See you on GGPO buddy! Got to get more of that O.Honda action!

The pages you linked have contradicting statements on them (some person says the range definitely differs in the post below you) but apparently all that changes is the damage and whiff lag. Is there any difference in the timing needed between strengths?

I'm a bit confused :(

[fatboy]

The pages you linked have contradicting statements on them (some person says the range definitely differs in the post below you) but apparently all that changes is the damage and whiff lag. Is there any difference in the timing needed between strengths?

I'm a bit confused :(

Summary:

No range difference on spinners.
Damage increases with jab/strong/feirce respectively.
Whiff animation increases with jab/strong/feirce respectively.

Basically everything in the second link...

[UltraDavid]

The recovery period for spd doesn't matter. You should only ever do spd f you know you're n range or f you thnk your opponent won't do an unthrowable attack (ie dragon punch). f you do t n range and t works, great, recovery doesn't matter because it worked, and f you do t n range and t doesn't work because you get knocked out of it, the recovery doesn't matter because you're knocked out of it. Even f you do t out of range, each strength of spd has so much recovery tme that t's free punshment no matter whch punch button you use. Just stick wth strong and fierce, jab offers nothng you need.

[UltraDavid]

for gule, try to larat, jump, bulldog, or green hand up to just outsde hs crouchng forward range. try to harrass hm wth standng forward (to beat sonc boom), standng short (beats gule's crouchng forward), crouchng roundhouse (to beat crouching forward), larat (to beat sonc boom), jumpng short to spd, and walkup spd or runnng bear grab. do all ths to try to get hm nto the corner, then keep trying to counterpoke or react or guess a jump nto 360. make sure you try to drect your spd toward the corner, safe jump nto some combinaton of tcks, 360 agan. ths s a hard matchup, but t's not the worst.

honda s the worst (and one of the worst matchups in the game), n my opnion. random tidbts: crouchng jab beats slaps at max range and headbutt, crouchng roundhouse beats slaps a bt closer than max range, kick larat beats headbutt on startup and has lke a 50%-33% chance of beating t after that (chance decreases as larat goes on), honda s vulnerable low when startng up headbutt, and f you ever land a grab on hm n the corner, he lands really werd and close to you and you can do immedate crossup splash nto shenangans. you don't want to jump at honda, at least not close enough to tck, because that's an easy headbutt for hm. you can jump f he's dong strong/ferce slaps over and over and you're far enough away that you wont get knocked out of the air, though. never try to tck hm up close because hs negative edge command grab wll wn every tme, always make sure you do a long enough tck or tck strng that you're too far away from hm to be command grabbed. try to walk forward wth crouchng jabs to ward off headbutts and slaps. f you get into like your jumpng short range, don't do jumpng short, you'll get headbutted. nstead try more crouchng jabs, crouchng roundhouses, crouchng short/forward nto larat (to make hm thnk t's crouchng roundhouse so he'll react wth headbutt, whch your larat wll beat), standng forward, standng short, and walk up spd. f you knock hm down, you can safe jump on hm, but make sure you contnue your tck string long enough to get out of hs command grab range, and then decde between spd and larat if he's doing headbutt/buttslam reversals.

don't play a rsky style n ths matchup, honda does too much damage and hs headbutt leaves you n too bad a poston for that to be reasonable. can i just tell you though? you're probably gonna lose ths one.



my i key stll doesn't work.

[kmc]

my i key stll doesn't work.

LOL I found it at last, really frustrating to read this lipogram :)

Your i key should be your strong/forward?

[djfrijoles]

you can jump f he's dong strong


I know I said I wouldn't be back till I had proof but this was to good to pass up :rofl: I'm not trying to check how big Hondas dick is before I jump at him :rofl:


I might as well use this oportunity to retract my statement from befor about the 720. Turns out it was due to roll backs and I didn't know what these were at the time.

[Nos99]

When Honda blocks low, you can see his penis under his towel.

Use this to your advantage.

[fatboy]

I know I said I wouldn't be back till I had proof but this was to good to pass up :rofl: I'm not trying to check how big Hondas dick is before I jump at him :rofl:


I might as well use this oportunity to retract my statement from befor about the 720. Turns out it was due to roll backs and I didn't know what these were at the time.

:lol:

[mad possum]

I know I said I wouldn't be back till I had proof but this was to good to pass up :rofl: I'm not trying to check how big Hondas dick is before I jump at him :rofl:


I might as well use this oportunity to retract my statement from befor about the 720. Turns out it was due to roll backs and I didn't know what these were at the time.


LOL, DJ you are one of the funniest guys in ST, LOL. Post of the year.

[RagingKeela]

What's up fellow Zangeif players! I'm pretty much noob when it comes to ST and I finally have some vids of a couple matches. Not high level or anything so it may not be entertaining to watch ~ but any pointers for me?

I seem to have a TERRIBLE time against chun, what the fuck do I do against her fireball, lightning legs, fireball, lightning legs bullshit? I can't do anything against her lightning legs it seems like. As you'll see in the vid even the guy playing chun afterwards is like "omg chun is sooo gay," he doesn't even play her and I get stomped by her! SHIT! Help a noob out!

RagingKeela vs Murphagator (http://www.dailymotion.com/DTJB/video/10077792)

[UltraDavid]

Biggest thing to change about your game is to start using lariat to get through fireballs. Also, more green hand after landing from spd to get closer to your opponent faster.

[JubeiNinja69]

so whats the correct timing and input to landing gief's super? normally i do 2 full 360s and that seems to randomly come out.

[RagingKeela]

Anybody correct me if I'm wrong, but I think his 720 actually is random as to if it comes out or not. Like if you had a programmable stick and recorded a legit 720 that worked, press that input a few times and it wouldn't give you a 720 100% of the time. At least that's what I've heard...


Ok, so I've been doing more lariats to get through projectiles and always do green palm after spd (unless already close in corner) now. Now how do I get around Chun's lightning legs? What keeps chun from just doing "fireball, lightning legs x n" all day against zangeif?

Also, any tips versus Blanka? I'm having trouble against his range pokes I guess. His throw range/poke range is ridiculous.

[eddieW]

Anybody correct me if I'm wrong, but I think his 720 actually is random as to if it comes out or not. Like if you had a programmable stick and recorded a legit 720 that worked, press that input a few times and it wouldn't give you a 720 100% of the time. At least that's what I've heard...


Ok, so I've been doing more lariats to get through projectiles and always do green palm after spd (unless already close in corner) now. Now how do I get around Chun's lightning legs? What keeps chun from just doing "fireball, lightning legs x n" all day against zangeif?

Also, any tips versus Blanka? I'm having trouble against his range pokes I guess. His throw range/poke range is ridiculous.

best way to land the 720 is a tick s.lk... always works for me
vs chun j.fp hits her lighting kick... after a knockdown do a late jump splash if she tries to do her wake up attack and since its only invisible at the very bottom it will get stuffed so free spd's....

Finally vs blanka.. he doesn't have a fireball so the only way he's gonna do damage is come to you.... use jump d.lk if you see an opportunity and start spd'ing... if in the corner hold forward before gief leaves the ground for the pile driver and he will jump forward so afterwards he doesn't get pushed back so far.... this is cheap vs characters with no wake up lol...

[Khiempossible]

best way to land the 720 is a tick s.lk... always works for me
vs chun j.fp hits her lighting kick... after a knockdown do a late jump splash if she tries to do her wake up attack and since its only invisible at the very bottom it will get stuffed so free spd's....

Finally vs blanka.. he doesn't have a fireball so the only way he's gonna do damage is come to you.... use jump d.lk if you see an opportunity and start spd'ing... if in the corner hold forward before gief leaves the ground for the pile driver and he will jump forward so afterwards he doesn't get pushed back so far.... this is cheap vs characters with no wake up lol...

blanka should always have ball charged and should reversal ball every time, which will always work in his favour. ball will trade at worst, and will never get grabbed. It's also unpunishable on block. The only way blanka loses this matchup is if he sucks with footsies or can't reversal.

gief can't jump vs. blanka cause blanka s.MP/sHP beats all his jump ins clean
gief can't whiff anything cause slide/low fierce/low roundhouse > everything gief has.
gief can't tick blanka cause blanka ball > ticks

blanka can just turtle all game, random blanka ball that loses only to carefully timed c.jab s.LK or lariat is all it takes to win the game.

also blanka's j.HK is destruction. Good blankas will just annoy the shit out of gief, j.HK then back dash away and just bait shit. Djfrijoles gets me with ticks, I'll control the entire game, make a mistake and then lose to 2 tick setups cause I can't reversal on pad.

My best advice is to bait blanka's low pokes and then jump knee them. and turtle with 3k lariat, cause that will make blanka want to slide (giving you the opportunity to jump). and gives you mad bar. it also beats blanka horizontal ball at it's startup (but it's whiff is punishable)

whiff green hand into 360 is also a really good trick, I've tried to punish whiff green hands with c.RH and it'll just get eaten up by the 360. Maybe I'm slow, but it's something i've eaten enough to beat (I now back dash away).

another trick, for poor blanka players is after blanka lands crossup short; lariat will beat anything that doesn't combo. blanka can't tick gief for fear of revesal 360, so if you threaten reversal 360, and blanka starts to jump, lariat will take it out. It's a 50/50 game that blanka shouldn't want to play.

and lastly, knees will trade/beat anti air balls. But I don't know why blanka would ever anti air ball when s.MP just destroys gief jumpins. That's why it's important to jump over whiffed limbs, blanka cant s.MP your jump if just whiffed something.

[fatboy]

DON'T ever cross-up Gief.

It is a lose/lose for Blanka.

Here is the deal, if you do a deep cross up on the get up on a downed Geif. He'll reversal clothesline, and it will allways trade...way in Geifs favor.

Then.. if Blanka tries to do the crossup high enough to hit through the CL, it is to high on Gief's body and Blanka gets spun.

It is not hard for Gief to defend against it.

A good Gief will go for the reversal CL, if he getts hit out he'll just spin the controller to get the 360.

I promise against a GOOD geif players will do this damn near 100% of the time if Blanka tries a crossup.

What Gief needs to worry about is a Blanka jumping from distance on the get up with meaty Lp or Mp placed with his knuckles right a Giefs jaw, he can't CL out of that (1-Frame start up on CL). It keeps the pressure on and allows for a 3 hit combo on hit. Jp.lp/mp>cr.mk>ball.

If Blanka misses and Gief manages to get the CL out, Blanka pops right to the ground and is safe, and can punish accordingly.

[EveryFlowerFlow]

VS Sim???


I need help. I'm getting owned by sim. When I get in, I can do ok, but it's so hard getting in. Getting zoned to death.

[UltraDavid]

You want to get in, but don't feel like you need to constantly be walking or jumping toward Sim, guessing when to jump and which jumping attack to use and so forth. The number one mistake in playing against Sim with a character Sim can zone out well is thinking that you need to run at him; Sim will eat you up if you do that.

Instead, try to make Sim scared about throwing out limbs all the time by counterpoking, especially in ways that knock him down. If you think he's going to do any far crouching attack, you can beat it out and knock him down with crouching roundhouse or just hit him and maybe cancel into running bear grab if close enough with crouching forward/short or standing short. If you think he's gonna do far standing roundhouse, do your standing roundhouse, punch lariat, crouching fierce, crouching strong, or crouching jab. If you think he's gonna do far standing fierce, do kick lariat, crouching roundhouse, crouching jab, or standing short. If you think he's gonna do far standing forward, do crouching jab, crouching strong, standing roundhouse, or punch lariat. You have attacks to beat each of Sim's attacks at particular ranges and timings, so figure that out, it's all very location- and situation-specific.

You also have air attacks that beat or trade with most of Sim's antiairs and Sim has antiairs that beat or trade with your air attacks, it all just depends on the spacing. You can use any of jumping down+short, jumping short, jumping down+forward, jumping forward, jumping roundhouse, jumping fierce, and jumping fierce splash against any of Sim's standing short, standing forward, standing roundhouse, back+short, back+forward, back+jab, down-back+jab, or jump back fierce. This is less effective than grounded counterpoking because you can't get a knockdown, it doesn't help you in positioning if you just trade attacks, and some of Sim's antiairs beat all of your crap in some situations, so don't depend on this quite as much.

You win in damage with both grounded counterpokes and jumping attacks almost regardless of what's trading, even sometimes in the case of your crouching jab v Sim's far standing fierce if random damage is on your side, so don't be scared about that, just realize that it's hard to keep your damage lead and you're not likely to win unless you get in. The name of the game in this matchup is still you trying to get in.

Also be aware that one knock down from a distance is not enough for you to get all the way in on Sim, so don't depend on trying to walk up with a tick into spd after one knockdown. The Sim player will probably just jump away or antiair your jumping tick with down+back jab or back+jab or super or something. You can choose between walking up farther, blocking, walking up with another crouching roundhouse, doing a couple green hands to get closer, or if Sim is expecting an attack or something, doing running bear grab or walk-up spd. There's a guessing game here, so try to use it to your advantage.

Random other stuff:

When you have Sim cornered and want to tick him to death, just tick him with max range standing jab. This is safer because it can't be reversal thrown by Sim (since you're out of his range), he can't slide under it like he can some of your jumping ticks, and if Sim does reversal teleport you're in a position onscreen that'll let you deal better with any of Sim's teleport locations and you have more time to react than you would if you were landing from a jumping attack.

Also, whenever you attack Sim on his wakeup, whether for a