Ok, Enough is Enough, Money Matches Are Fucking Dumb

[dereklearnslow]

I know it started on the EC, it's migrated to the WC, and now I see it slowly, but steadily creeping through the Midwest, so enough is enough.

MONEY MATCHED ARE FUCKING RETARDED.

What hell does it prove? That you're better than so-n-so when money is on the line? So fucking what. Is money the end all to every fucking thing? I guess for some people, it is...not to me.

What ever happened to 'A game is a fucking game'? What happened to the excitement of playing someone you haven't played before? What ever happened to playing the best game you can play, regardless of if there is money on the line or not?

It fucking sucks, that every time I go out of town to a tournament (EVO, ECC, FR whatever) that in order for me to get ANY FUCKING CASUALS IN, I have to challenge someone to a MM. That shit is fucking retarded.

For me it's not about the money. I have plenty to give if I happen to lose, that's not the point. And if I know I can actually beat whoever challenges me, in the end, I'd be totally fine without your dumb ass money. I'm satisfied just playing you.

I can't even play most other top players in casual anymore cause they won't play me unless I put some money on the line. So what I haven't made a big name for myself, so what if you've seen the vids of Justin Wong perfecting me a billion times. I'm not asking for much. All I'm asking for, at the most, is 99 seconds of your time (give or take) to allow me the chance to show what I got. That's all. I don't need to go through your fucking ego trip about who is better and who has the most money. If I win, GG...If I lose, GG. THAT'S ALL I NEED, AND THAT'S ALL THAT MATTERS.

These vids of DPC challenging OG Cali people to fucking $2000-$3000 money matches, is honestly, one of the saddest displays of humanity to me. It doesn't matter who wins, both sides lose to me...both sides have decided to put a dollar sign on their skill. That just seems stupid and useless to me.

Maybe I'm just hella drunk (and I am), but I've had to get this shit off my chest for a long time. I remember when casual play was just that...FUCKING CASUAL. Not, let's put some money on the line to see who's dick is bigger.

Bleh whatever though. People are gonna do what they want to do. But do me a favor, if you see me in person (I'm the tall mulatto dude with nappy dreads that will place top 16 in any marvel tourney), don't bother asking me for a MM, I will silently laugh at you and politely decline.

[MagnetiX]

Hey, I remember playing you at GameLand a few years ago...or was that Orleans here in Vegas...but I just remembered you were black with dreads, but you're pretty good, and you're also pretty chill, too.

[dereklearnslow]

Never been to Orleans or this so called Gameland, I don't think at least. Whatever tho. Wassup.

[Rikidozan]

:"They shoulda neva gave you niggahs money"

[Dander]

I know it started on the EC, it's migrated to the WC, and now I see it slowly, but steadily creeping through the Midwest, so enough is enough.

MONEY MATCHED ARE FUCKING RETARDED.

What hell does it prove? That you're better than so-n-so when money is on the line? So fucking what. Is money the end all to every fucking thing? I guess for some people, it is...not to me.

What ever happened to 'A game is a fucking game'? What happened to the excitement of playing someone you haven't played before? What ever happened to playing the best game you can play, regardless of if there is money on the line or not?

It fucking sucks, that every time I go out of town to a tournament (EVO, ECC, FR whatever) that in order for me to get ANY FUCKING CASUALS IN, I have to challenge someone to a MM. That shit is fucking retarded.

For me it's not about the money. I have plenty to give if I happen to lose, that's not the point. And if I know I can actually beat whoever challenges me, in the end, I'd be totally fine without your dumb ass money. I'm satisfied just playing you.

I can't even play most other top players in casual anymore cause they won't play me unless I put some money on the line. So what I haven't made a big name for myself, so what if you've seen the vids of Justin Wong perfecting me a billion times. I'm not asking for much. All I'm asking for, at the most, is 99 seconds of your time (give or take) to allow me the chance to show what I got. That's all. I don't need to go through your fucking ego trip about who is better and who has the most money. If I win, GG...If I lose, GG. THAT'S ALL I NEED, AND THAT'S ALL THAT MATTERS.

These vids of DPC challenging OG Cali people to fucking $2000-$3000 money matches, is honestly, one of the saddest displays of humanity to me. It doesn't matter who wins, both sides lose to me...both sides have decided to put a dollar sign on their skill. That just seems stupid and useless to me.

Maybe I'm just hella drunk (and I am), but I've had to get this shit off my chest for a long time. I remember when casual play was just that...FUCKING CASUAL. Not, let's put some money on the line to see who's dick is bigger.

Bleh whatever though. People are gonna do what they want to do. But do me a favor, if you see me in person (I'm the tall mulatto dude with nappy dreads that will place top 16 in any marvel tourney), don't bother asking me for a MM, I will silently laugh at you and politely decline.

Money Match rt10 for 5 bucks.

[dereklearnslow]

Nice.

[Dios <-X->]

The D stands for dofus?

[(RedBeard)]

Here's the thing about money matches...

A lot of people probably want to play against Justin at major tournaments. So, in order to make it worth his time he can ask for money up front. This way, even if he is killing random dude who has no chance #500(in no way implying this is you, never seen you play), it is worth his time. He is not going to get better killing scrubs so he may as well make some money off of it.

At smaller events, I would agree that it would be stupid for them to reject casuals unless you put up money. Practice is practice.

Now, as far as putting huge cash up such as the DP matches...it's because they create hype and make you get really serious. Come on now, you can't get seriously pumped up just trashing some scrub. If anything it's really boring because they don't challenge you. When you face off against a GOOD player for a lot of money, the match becomes very serious. Then you have all your friends backing you, and all of your opponents friends betting money on him. It just creates a lot of hype and the matches become great to watch. Besides, if you're confident in your side winning who WOULDN'T want free money? I mean you can be confident in your own finances and not care about money but not all of us are that way, and making more money can never hurt.

Normally, I wouldn't watch MvC2 matches if you payed me...but with 3k on the line you can bet I'm going to watch. I don't like MvC2 at all but with a match as hyped as cl0ck vs. DP even I was interested and watched all of them.

You can call me a sheep and whatever for liking the hype but that's just how it is for me, I have always liked MM's. I respect that you're tired of needing to throw down money all the time when you just want to play the game. That's what I play my friends for in casuals, MM for hype and serious...casuals for fun and learning.

[platinum_pinoy]

It's really a tough call on whether money matches are okay or not. If you watch the SooMighty vs. Smoothviper $1000 money match, there is some exciting shit in there. Smoothviper is one hell of a blocker and crazy consistent while SooMighty is fucking rushdown master.

However, I've some other money matches and they are boring as hell because, apparently, turtling/runaway becomes the "highest level of play". Seriously, I refuse to watch someone who put monetary value on their skill run the fuck away with Storm or c. fp with Sagat.

[dereklearnslow]

Redbeard: OK, I can understand the hype argument...if you're the kind of person that likes hype, then yea, exorbitant money matches are the perfect way to get it. As for me, I could give two shits. I'm interested in watching any two good players fight.

But the whole, 'Make it worth his time' argument seems self defeating to me, because if I go to a tournament, it's to play. So if anyone challenges me, I'll play them because I took the time and effort to show up. I've already decided it's worth my time, because if it wasn't, I wouldn't be there in the first place.

Then again, most people ARE motivated by money. I myself am not (unless it's for an amount so great that I will not ever have to work a day in my life), so I guess I'm forced to deal with it, blah.

Platinum: That's a WHOLE nother discussion on what you would consider skill.

[Dander]

OK, I can understand the hype argument...if you're the kind of person that likes hype, then yea, exorbitant money matches are the perfect way to get it. I myself, could give two shits. I'm interested in watching any 2 good players fight.

But the whole, 'Make it worth his time' argument seems self defeating to me, because if I go to a tournament, it's to play. So if anyone challenges me, I'll play them because I took the time and effort to show up. I've already decided it's worth my time, because if it wasn't, I wouldn't be there in the first place.

Then again, most people ARE motivated by money. I myself am not (unless it's for an amount so great that I will not ever have to work a day in my life), so I guess I'm forced to deal with it, blah.


hahahahahhahahahahahaha

[Grits'N'Gravy]

I'll use JWong as an example because everybody else does, but I mean no disrespect to the other top players and all that:

Derek: The thing is, you're not a top player. You have to try to think like one to understand what RedBeard is saying. Imagine you're Justin, all these random players, good or not, want a crack at you. Since you know who the best guys to play for casuals are, and you have them in your stable a lot of the time *Empire Arcadia, Dipset team, FFA etc* you don't need to be bothered to play against lower players. If Justin or whoever goes strictly to play against other top players, what's the point in him playing a guy like me, unless he can make some cash off it? Not a whole hell of a lot. Because he's Justin he has a lot more clout than you and can probably jump in line or whatever if he wants to. He also probably has other ways to play than by standing in line as well.

Think of it like paying for lessons. You'll learn quite a bit getting your ass destroyed by a guy like that, you might find out that you do a bit better than you could've thought... all because you put up money to find that shit out.

Personally, I don't play money matches or drama money matches. If somebody thinks they're better than me, they can come at me in casuals or try to take me out of the tournament. I don't feel the need to pay other players for these "lessons" because I think I can level up to where I feel good with local competition and hard work. Some of these players might think differently, and the friendly MM is a way to achieve that.

Another thing that is good to consider is the distance some good players travel. Gian is taking MMs at EvoWorld likely not because he hates somebody or that he wants to be some kind of elitist, he is probably taking them so that he can recoup some of his gigantic plane ticket cost. (It's about $700-1200 to come from Japan to the US, not including room, food, tourney entry, transportation in Vegas etc)

Drama money matches imo are kind of out of hand. Personally, if I hate a player, my only true desire is to knock him out of the tournament or rape him in casuals in front of a lot of people. I don't really need the money to feel satisfied. Ultimately though, money does get people in the crowd hype and all of that, and it does add to the pressure... I think this is more subjective than friendly mms.

[platinum_pinoy]

Platinum: That's a WHOLE nother discussion on what you would consider skill.

Whoops. My bad.

As far as your argument goes, I agree with you. Paying to play ain't cool at all, but I would expect that at tournies, especially ones where people come from long distances to play (ie. Evo, MWC, Final Round, etc). Ponying up money just for a casual match is lame as hell, and it's not like you have any sort of grudge or pissing contest with some stranger; you just want to play.

If I could regulate it, I would ban "Casual money matches" because it's retarded. However, if there is a grudge and there is a REAL point to prove, then fine.

[MagnetiX]

Never been to Orleans or this so called Gameland, I don't think at least. Whatever tho. Wassup.

You ARE black with dreads...right?
I know i'm not imagining things, lol.
Have you been to Vegas? Because I remember meeting someone who said his name on the forums was "DerekLearnSlow"

[Cowboyday]

Money on the line makes certain that no one is sandbagging and it's also good practice for the pressures of a real tournament. Close thread.

[Dander]

Money on the line makes certain that no one is sandbagging and it's also good practice for the pressures of a real tournament. Close thread.

ahahahahahahahaha

[dereklearnslow]

Grits: Good point you bring up there. How l334 players like justin, sanford, row, duc, so-n-so, really don't need to be bothered with playing lower skilled players because they don't get anything from it, besides maybe accidentally finding out a new way to rape someone.

I know how that feels, because, believe it or not, I have the same complex in my area. In the southern SUBURB Chicago area/NW Indiana region, I am indisputably #1 in MVC2. I have to to travel to Chicago and abroad to get any decent competition.

But the thing is, no matter the level of the person that wants to challenge me, whether they've heard of me through hearsay, or they don't know anything at all about top marvel player tiers, or if they think they can beat anyone with their spiderman/guile/wolverine team, I will still play them, just because of the simple fact that they want to play, and they want to get better. Yes usually I rape them, yes they are usually dumbstruck, but more often than not (well, not as much lately), they'll ask me, 'How do I do that?' or 'How do I get as good as that?', and that is where my enjoyment comes from. Not from taking their money and having them 'pay for a lesson'.

(Also for the 2 people from Indiana who I know are probably reading this, Nunez/Dave, you guys don't count. I actually consider you guys equals, for reals. If we played more often, we'd all be on the same level.)

Maybe you are right when you say it is on a different level than say Mr. Wong (god I'm tired of using him as a reference, but what can I say, that man is that good) or whoever, but I can't honestly see myself getting to that point where i'd play less skilled, but eager to learn players ONLY for money...because at that point, it wouldn't be fun for me.

Cowboyday: I have sandbagged plenty of times in MM's. I know that it is not a profitable practice, but it happens.

And I'm sorry, but tournament pressure > mm pressure any day for me. Losing some money < placing low in a tournament (although one could argue that they are the same thing).

[dereklearnslow]

You ARE black with dreads...right?
I know i'm not imagining things, lol.
Have you been to Vegas? Because I remember meeting someone who said his name on the forums was "DerekLearnSlow"

I have been to Vegas....and I'm half black, half polish...

Oh ORLEANS the CASINO! Are you that dude I was hanging out with on the strip?? If so....dude! What the fuck is up!? I lost your number not too shortly after I got home ha. My bad bro.

I plan on going to Vegas with some friends hopefully sometime this summer. We could all meet up or something and hit some clubs n shit, fo sho.

[Biolink]

The only thing I would like to know,is where people get this kind of money just to throw around.

Other than that,if I had the skill,I would like to do it too(Specifically in Marvel vs Capcom 2).

[shoultzula]

MM started on the east coast? gtfo here with that crap.

I remember MMing people in the phillipines for dodgeball on the NES, amognst other games, and when I started playing street fighter, people kept doing that. The amount has changed but I used to live on oahu quite a while ago and you would usually see the usuals betting it up. Maybe up to a hundred or 2 MAX but never thousands like you see these days. Occasionally for 5-20 most of the time.

a little betting on the side gives your more incentive to win.

[MiLky]

[QUOTE=Grits'N'Gravy;3829464]Think of it like paying for lessons. You'll learn quite a bit getting your ass destroyed by a guy like that, you might find out that you do a bit better than you could've thought... all because you put up money to find that shit out.[QUOTE]

Other than gambling is gambling, and it can be fun, I also have to agree with this quote. I don't play Marvel at all, but the point is valid. I have many friends that hustle pool. More than one of them at one time or another has played for a fair amount of money against a famous player they knew they couldn't beat.

Example: A good friend of mine (a very good player as well) met Mike Massey in Vegas. Offered to play him $100 a rack, knowing he couldn't make any money off of it. They played around 10 games, he won 3 of them. He learned ALOT from playing those games. Mike Massey would not have given lessons like that for $700.

Point being you can't learn high level anything, without playing someone better than you. I know there is more money to be made in pool, but the point is valid.

I also used to play SF in the mid 90's for between $1 and $5 a game for fun. It isn't much money, but it sure made it more interesting.

[oyg]

I agree with your points somewhat. But if I'm going to Evo, I'm going to scope out those Japanese players and try to play them first. Jwong always comes second to them. :lol:
I also agree that it's entirely up to Jwong to only do money matches. I mean.. does he have any other source of income? :lol: (Bad joke) Then again, it must be the gambling spirit. Putting vast sums of money up on a game means you have what it takes, not only in the game but outside as well.

[Bacardi]

You know how many times has anyone here just gone up to Justin and just asked to play him a few games? I never have had to mm to play some casuals

[Master Chibi]

You know how many times has anyone here just gone up to Justin and just asked to play him a few games? I never have had to mm to play some casuals

Same.

;p

[deathcritis1]

ditto because back in the day when he ( I mean j.wong ) was just starting to get into the kof scene me and my crew saw him and played him and his crew and beat him but the thing was that no-one put any money on the line because things happen when you put money on the line sometimes.

[Hol Horse]

I perfectly understand that top players enjoy to play other top players a lot more than mid/low level people. But then, it's not that they are superior beings or something like that. If you don't want to waste your time playing random scrubs, that's fine, just set up some casuals with other top players with no other people allowed in the line, it's not that hard (and there's a ton of possible excuses you can make). I understand MM'ing after words of hate on a forum or what so.
All of this is acceptable.

But taking money from people you're 100% sure of beating, from people that maybe live in an area with no competition and always dreamed have a game against a famed top player just to try what does it feel? I would feel guilty. I never turned down a request to play from a lesser player. And in turn, when I went to places where I was the lesser player, no one turned me down or asked money. I'm really glad of living here after reading all of this. I mean, it's a game. When Hayao came to Europe last year, he was beating me so easily it was embarrassing. Yet he never denied me a game. And he was perhaps among the top 10 3s players in Japan at the time, an achievement that takes huge dedication - and yet he was still aware that it's just a game. It's a matter of style.

[MiyagiShin X]

Ya man i it depends.

I think ppl are making money matches to serious. U should have fun when u play not put everything on the line. Losing money sucks. And your being stupid doing it for amounts really large. (like 20 or more)

Sometimes its fun. If i see a friend i havnt played in a while i may popeyes match him because hell win or lose it was fun playing and i know it would be fun to create a little hype, plus i dont have to money match its just something fun to do. I only do it to people i know or particularly havnt seen in a while.

It doesnt have to be money is basically what im saying lol. It can be something else. We gamers need our money to enter more tourneys and other shit. Id rather lose my money in Poker or some other form of gambling.

Last thing i did that was like a money match was a more of a deal, i lost in a 3s match so i now gotta play CVS2 in the next tourney... Stuff like that. I made the deal to add a little excitment thats all.

[orka]

what we need more of are burrito matches.

but yea... money match is lame. not like the money you earn at fighting game tournaments in any form is enough to make a living out of anyway. so why rep it hard like it matters so much?

unless you're reallllyyyy broke, but then you probably shouldn't be wasting time traveling to tournaments in the first place.

[Humbag]

Ive played Justin in 3s casuals, it was fun. But in all honesty i have nothing against small money matchs like up to 100 at the most. Small mms against friends and the whatnot can give braggin rights and stuff. Anything greater than that is unneccesary, it just becomes all hype and nothing more.

[DevilJin 01]

I know it started on the EC, it's migrated to the WC, and now I see it slowly, but steadily creeping through the Midwest, so enough is enough.

MONEY MATCHED ARE FUCKING RETARDED.

What hell does it prove? That you're better than so-n-so when money is on the line? So fucking what. Is money the end all to every fucking thing? I guess for some people, it is...not to me.

What ever happened to 'A game is a fucking game'? What happened to the excitement of playing someone you haven't played before? What ever happened to playing the best game you can play, regardless of if there is money on the line or not?

It fucking sucks, that every time I go out of town to a tournament (EVO, ECC, FR whatever) that in order for me to get ANY FUCKING CASUALS IN, I have to challenge someone to a MM. That shit is fucking retarded.

For me it's not about the money. I have plenty to give if I happen to lose, that's not the point. And if I know I can actually beat whoever challenges me, in the end, I'd be totally fine without your dumb ass money. I'm satisfied just playing you.

I can't even play most other top players in casual anymore cause they won't play me unless I put some money on the line. So what I haven't made a big name for myself, so what if you've seen the vids of Justin Wong perfecting me a billion times. I'm not asking for much. All I'm asking for, at the most, is 99 seconds of your time (give or take) to allow me the chance to show what I got. That's all. I don't need to go through your fucking ego trip about who is better and who has the most money. If I win, GG...If I lose, GG. THAT'S ALL I NEED, AND THAT'S ALL THAT MATTERS.

These vids of DPC challenging OG Cali people to fucking $2000-$3000 money matches, is honestly, one of the saddest displays of humanity to me. It doesn't matter who wins, both sides lose to me...both sides have decided to put a dollar sign on their skill. That just seems stupid and useless to me.

Maybe I'm just hella drunk (and I am), but I've had to get this shit off my chest for a long time. I remember when casual play was just that...FUCKING CASUAL. Not, let's put some money on the line to see who's dick is bigger.

Bleh whatever though. People are gonna do what they want to do. But do me a favor, if you see me in person (I'm the tall mulatto dude with nappy dreads that will place top 16 in any marvel tourney), don't bother asking me for a MM, I will silently laugh at you and politely decline.

Quarter match. First to 10. Evo East or Finals...let's go.

[Pushblocksavelife]

Hey Number 4!!!

[AlterGenesis]

Playing MMs is like why people go to the Casino to lose thousands of dollars. It's their money, they really shouldn't be critcized for doing what they want. It's gambling. Like how people like to play Texas Hold Em' for money. That's not the kind of game you play for fun, as clearly not many people will try very hard. The fact is, its human nature to put a little more effort when something is on the line.

[ramza]

well, i wouldn't call it gambling. when nothing's on the line, i play for fun. as topic starter said, win or lose, gg. money matches are basically the best we've got to simulate a tourney match w/o meeting up with said person in the brackets. when i want to play someone seriously, you mm. sure they can sandbag, but whoever can afford to sandbag in mm's is someone who probably doesn't value their money much.

[JackTenrac!]

If you did what you did as a profession for free, would you do it?

...that went well.

[pherai]

I dont know if this has been mentioned, but money matches are indeed one of the best ways to show whos better. It eliminates the "I wasn't trying" excuse because no one is going to dick around with money on the line.

[elitericerocket]

I'd say the thing you have to understand is that some people use gaming as a major source of their income. Teams don't go to CPL playing counter strike just for kicks. They go for the phat amounts of prize money.

In terms of tournaments like EVO and such, the prizes aren't always as big, so if you can make some more money off of MM's, why not do it?

[FallingEdge]

what we need more of are burrito matches.

:wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow:

I thought me and my crew are the only ones to have those type of matches.

Fucking nice. Spread the word. Burrito matches are in.

B-B-B-B-BURRITO UNIT!

[guywongsta]

money matches MAKE marvel nowadays

[Nagata Lock II]

I look at the concept of the Money Match as being something to boost motivation. As I'm sure many of the better players within their particular specialty can attest, you rarely play at your very best when you're used to being able to beat people at less than your full skill level. Even in tournaments, you don't necessarily take your matches seriously until you're up against someone you know can legitimately beat you (thus knocking you out of the tournament and killing your chance at that prize money) or you're down a game and it's like a reality check to play your best.

While the arguement can be made that better players should always be looking for the win and money shouldn't be the primary factor to play your best, I'm sure we can all agree that our community is lazy as a whole and thus would never bother to play at their best without proper motivation.

The amount of money being thrown around of late has been a tad on the ubsurd side (of course that's relative) but if it's within the means of the players, then I don't see what the problem is. If one player makes a "big" money match for $20 and the other makes a "big" money match for $2000, the amount isn't so much the issue so much as how much it really impacts the player. It all comes down to motivation in the end, what is going to push you to perform at your best.

[Phoenix Wright]

Nigga please, when it's my turn to play,regardless of who it is, i put my quarter in and press start. If he doesnt like it then he can walk away. The top players may be good, but they don't own the machine.

[jae hoon]

MM loses its effect when you got every shmuck and mook going OMG I DONT PLAY UNLESS YOU MM ME.

MM only really matter in cases like Sanford vs Duc, 90 percent of the time its just lame.

[ruin-]

Well for me, fighting games in general don't have the same thrill they use to. Especially casual, in a tounament I gotta get in gear cause I only get 2 chances before I'm knocked out. if I'm playing casual. I can just fuck around all day and it's mad boring theres nothing on the line.

In a tournament/money match there's something on the line. Some people might play their best in casual but a lot of top players won't. I'll play MSP in marvel and in Guilty Gear I'll use random characters in casual. It's boring :(. If wong and sanford were duking it out in marvel in a casual setting it would be mad boring when there's money or a tournament match on the line it becomes real exciting.

[ruin-]

Dark prince vs clock, is the perfect example. Imagine if that was a casual match with nothing on the line or let's say like a hand shake after. Yeah that's going to be real exciting D: if you lose you can just cop out and say "I don't care what did I lose?" :D or something =)

[TheDarkPhoenix]

It use to be quarters, now its 5 dollar-3k MM....

When you have something on the line to lose you take the game more serious plan and simple. While we all want to be ryu and just fight to be the best, it doesn't work like that. We perform better(or worst sometimes) when there something at stake. Weather thats 25cent or 3k. And since arcades are all but dead, MM where bound to happen. I've been watching MM since the "death" of the arcade scene. And even back in the day on snes playing SSF2 and Killer instinct.

I think the MM are healthy and ive never seen a top player turn down anyone just because. There usual both casual and MM going on at the same time anyway....

[Kuenai]

Dark prince vs clock, is the perfect example. Imagine if that was a casual match with nothing on the line or let's say like a hand shake after. Yeah that's going to be real exciting D: if you lose you can just cop out and say "I don't care what did I lose?" :D or something =)

Still, he had insulted him and many other veterans of Marvel. There still would've been pride on the line. That was Clock putting him in his place with Strider/Doom/Sent. Harsh.....

[Uthred]

Are money matches primarily (exclusively?) an american thing ?

[DevilJin 01]

Are money matches primarily (exclusively?) an american thing ?

Yeah...I can't imagine people in Japan money match like we do here. Like they barely get any money for winning SBO. They play mainly just out of the fun from playing and becoming better at the game. They fight for their lives without really ever putting much on the line. Which I think is why they're so good to begin with. In America money is always treated a sense of value and worth (just turn on MTV/BET). When you take something you already take seriously and then throw down money on it...that means you mean business.

[DS]

MM loses its effect when you got every shmuck and mook going OMG I DONT PLAY UNLESS YOU MM ME.

MM only really matter in cases like Sanford vs Duc, 90 percent of the time its just lame.


Just about. Plus, there really isn't much to prove. Yeah, you beat a high player at a money match. What then? Are you gonna win every tourney you enter? Doubtful. Just because you win a money match doesn't necessarily make you the best player in your region.

Like Jae said, it's only cool when it's big name players doing it. Now all of a sudden, EVERYONE wants to money match in any game possible. IMO, I'd rather take the pride in winning a tourney because you basically denied a shitload of players in your bracket a chance at the top.

[DevilJin 01]

Just about. Plus, there really isn't much to prove. Yeah, you beat a high player at a money match. What then? Are you gonna win every tourney you enter? Doubtful. Just because you win a money match doesn't necessarily make you the best player in your region.

Like Jae said, it's only cool when it's big name players doing it. Now all of a sudden, EVERYONE wants to money match in any game possible. IMO, I'd rather take the pride in winning a tourney because you basically denied a shitload of players in your bracket a chance at the top.

I say that's how a lot of money matches start too. Especially if you're someone that doesn't normally win tournaments or place higher than other more established players. The first thing they wanna do is see if they can get money off of you from your tourney winnings. To see if they can still have their ego at the end of the day. I guess the idea is "so what if you won that tourney...you willing to put your money on the line that you can do that to me again?"

[AlterGenesis]

MMs don't need to be cool. This personally isn't my opinion, but, if you can win at a game and someone wants to play you for money, I don't see any logical reason to turn him down. Free money, is the term.

[Corner-Trap]

I know it started on the EC, it's migrated to the WC, and now I see it slowly, but steadily creeping through the Midwest, so enough is enough.

MONEY MATCHED ARE FUCKING RETARDED.

What hell does it prove? That you're better than so-n-so when money is on the line? So fucking what. Is money the end all to every fucking thing? I guess for some people, it is...not to me.

What ever happened to 'A game is a fucking game'? What happened to the excitement of playing someone you haven't played before? What ever happened to playing the best game you can play, regardless of if there is money on the line or not?

It fucking sucks, that every time I go out of town to a tournament (EVO, ECC, FR whatever) that in order for me to get ANY FUCKING CASUALS IN, I have to challenge someone to a MM. That shit is fucking retarded.

For me it's not about the money. I have plenty to give if I happen to lose, that's not the point. And if I know I can actually beat whoever challenges me, in the end, I'd be totally fine without your dumb ass money. I'm satisfied just playing you.

I can't even play most other top players in casual anymore cause they won't play me unless I put some money on the line. So what I haven't made a big name for myself, so what if you've seen the vids of Justin Wong perfecting me a billion times. I'm not asking for much. All I'm asking for, at the most, is 99 seconds of your time (give or take) to allow me the chance to show what I got. That's all. I don't need to go through your fucking ego trip about who is better and who has the most money. If I win, GG...If I lose, GG. THAT'S ALL I NEED, AND THAT'S ALL THAT MATTERS.

These vids of DPC challenging OG Cali people to fucking $2000-$3000 money matches, is honestly, one of the saddest displays of humanity to me. It doesn't matter who wins, both sides lose to me...both sides have decided to put a dollar sign on their skill. That just seems stupid and useless to me.

Maybe I'm just hella drunk (and I am), but I've had to get this shit off my chest for a long time. I remember when casual play was just that...FUCKING CASUAL. Not, let's put some money on the line to see who's dick is bigger.

Bleh whatever though. People are gonna do what they want to do. But do me a favor, if you see me in person (I'm the tall mulatto dude with nappy dreads that will place top 16 in any marvel tourney), don't bother asking me for a MM, I will silently laugh at you and politely decline.

I challenge you to a MM for 6K, all or nothing :nunchuck:

With all kidding aside, one thing your not realizing about all these MM's is that they are actually helping out our community. It's inspiring players to get better, and making competition move forward. Everyone becomes more driven when moneys on the line.

[Allosaurus]

Like Jae said, it's only cool when it's big name players doing it. Now all of a sudden, EVERYONE wants to money match in any game possible. IMO, I'd rather take the pride in winning a tourney because you basically denied a shitload of players in your bracket a chance at the top.

QFT.

[Deezo]

I remember hearing from Zach that Vegita-X did nothing but money matches and he's illmatic. An example of how mms can be beneficial.

[10x]

Thread creator lost a money match...

[margalis]

It seems to me that Dark Prince vs. Clock would have been exciting without the money, because of the bad blood, the crowd reaction, etc. Meanwhile DP vs. Shady is kind of boring even with the money aspect, because it was so laid back.

I have no problem with people betting and the contestants putting up their own money in some awesome battle, but two guys I've never heard of putting money on the line is kind of silly. It's like a battle to see who is the 32nd best player - yay.

SmoothViper vs. SooMighty...who cares. No amount of money makes that very exciting - it's two pretty good players playing each other. (Yes I've heard of them...)

Three things create genuine hype: skill, rivalry and backstory.

[Logos]

:wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow:

I thought me and my crew are the only ones to have those type of matches.

Fucking nice. Spread the word. Burrito matches are in.

B-B-B-B-BURRITO UNIT!

Hell yes! Burrito unit for life! :lovin:

[Vidness]

Pabs & I battled over pron once....I won of course. I instantly leveled-up when something was on the line...especially something I like ;)

[Se7in]

Pabs & I battled over pron once....I won of course. I instantly leveled-up when something was on the line...especially something I like ;)

Any matches between Pabs, Vid, and Joon are instantly gold.

:clap:

[Dima]

its probably a way to get certain people to shut up, like conceited scrubs for instance.

[Ouroborus]

seems to me you cant get a match in mvc2 nowadays without it being a money match

[MagnetiX]

I have been to Vegas....and I'm half black, half polish...

Oh ORLEANS the CASINO! Are you that dude I was hanging out with on the strip?? If so....dude! What the fuck is up!? I lost your number not too shortly after I got home ha. My bad bro.

I plan on going to Vegas with some friends hopefully sometime this summer. We could all meet up or something and hit some clubs n shit, fo sho.

lol, no, no, i'm not the dood you were hangin out with, I just met you at the Orleans and played you on Marvel a few times, then a bunch of other people from Vegas came and talked to you, lol.

[(RedBeard)]

Yeah...I can't imagine people in Japan money match like we do here.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Japan can't money match period because gambling there is illegal? Usually tournament prizes are like random anime related things because winning money would make it too close to gambling.

[thraaaaa]

snip



I feel ya man, My boy George invited some of yall to our room at Final Round for some non-money match casuals, and team orlando came in with the MM, I didnt want to be rude so I just went with the flow, I got no issues with money matches, jus not all the time

[Gerjay_2001]

When I travel places I money match. Why? To get some money back from the trip. Lets be honest here, in most tournaments you don't get refunded for anything outside of top 3. Anything else with money on the line will payoff around 10% or so of the top placings, but in the general tourney, its top 3. Problem is, most KNOW before they get to a tournament that they won't be getting top 3. Money matches let them make money off of the competition.

Its great and all to play for the competition, I play/act competitively in just about everything I do. However, when you feel you've worked hard enough in something you kinda want some kind of compensation outside of a good feeling and a handshake, or at least enough to fund the expensive trips (well, expensive to me anyways). Dereklearnslow said he didn't feel the need to make money off of games, and that's great for him, but I'm a broke university student, so making money off of my hobies is great. Not to mention, anybody who actually needs the money from their MMs is automatically forced to play better, since the money is worth more to them than that handshake. . .

I go to tournaments for the experience, don't get me wrong, but if I can recoup the losses that generally result in paying to travel by taking peoples money, I'm perfectly okay with that.

And about the big money gambles that have been going on, I'm okay with those too. Justin made that video calling out those players and things got heated. In North America, money is the end point of everything it seems, so instead of just playing some matches to try to show Justin that that vid was a bunch of BS, money was put down. I'm not even aware how much of the money was from cl0ck or Justin or Shady, but I'm sure that since it was such a heated match all the backers jumped on to support their guy who they 'knew' would win the set. Anybody take a count at how much money exchanged hands during the JWong/Sanford set at ECC last year? Gambling is natural, no use ragging on it because you think it means nothing. People are just trying to make some money.

[Lumbro1]

They are ENTERTAINING. Hype, money, drama.. It's a show.

Get this *** shit outta here.

[dereklearnslow]

Get this *** shit outta here.

That's the same argument I'm trying to make.

[vkuwabara]

Money makes the players to play seriously. It's very interesting to watch.
There's a brazilian who wants a MM with Justin, he says he's gonna win a random mirror match (like, both with same random characters). Although I don't even believe he's travelling to US.

[power333]

Casual sucks. Everybody is sandbagging and any result is meaningless. Money matches bring in the hype, and are a nice addition for tourneys. If you want casuals, play at your local arcade and be happy forever.

About JWong, there are hundreds of people wanting to play him every major. Obviosuly, he can not play everyone. So he does MMs. He plays with some people, and get some money. He has no obligation whatsoever to get tired playing scrubs all day and all night in all games.

The most important thing, however, is to TAKE CARE OF YOUR OWN LIFE. If 2 random guys wants to MM each other, let them do it. If you don't like it, simply don't participate in it. Being a cry baby about it is no help.

[DJTPC]

Is money the end all to every fucking thing?

Yes.
Don't forget about RealDolls.

[MiyagiShin X]

That's the same argument I'm trying to make.


No creating hype can be fun some times. If its in a possitive way. I dont agree with large amounts of money but no one is forcing u to money match. Its just for fun lol.

I dont know the gamers u play with so maybe there different. But as far as hyping and putting on a show, thats okay man. i like to laugh alot so i dont see a problem with it. Plus its even crazier when its to reallty good people playing and its over chicken! i mean that serious business. Burritos too. and every now and then some Chinese food bets. :rofl:

[Arsenal]

Derek: The thing is, you're not a top player.

not to dick ride, but derek is tops in the midwest in Marvel, so he does know a thing or two about the gap in skill level between tops -- bottom.

just to clarify.

[PanderanGambler]

Money matches happen cause people are always talking shit about being good. Also they're hype. I enjoy betting on a close match than actually betting on myself vs someone though.

[dereklearnslow]

The most important thing, however, is to TAKE CARE OF YOUR OWN LIFE. If 2 random guys wants to MM each other, let them do it. If you don't like it, simply don't participate in it. Being a cry baby about it is no help.

Bleh whatever though. People are gonna do what they want to do. But do me a favor, if you see me in person (I'm the tall mulatto dude with nappy dreads that will place top 16 in any marvel tourney), don't bother asking me for a MM, I will silently laugh at you and politely decline.

What the hell does taking care of my own life have to do with anything? I was just stating an opinion.

So go ahead and MM to all your heart's contents for all I care. Now quit being a crybaby about how I'm being a crybaby.

[Overworld]

I do agree that there is almost too much of a focus on MMs, I don't really see too many people posting up in threads asking people for casuals. (I mean it happens, but the ratio of that to MM is like 10:1).

They are something that people like to play in, and people like to watch. (I don't really like playing in them for the same reason Gerjay likes to play them, I'm a broke college student, I don't have money to be throwing around.) So I don't think they are a bad thing, just too much focus on them I think.

Though I do think it's dumb for people who refuse to play anything but money matches, where's the fun in that? It's like going to a convention for any hobby, and being able to get tips and stuff from pros, how much would it suck if to get your art portfolio just looked at for a few minutes and the guy wanted 100 bucks?

I'm sure after DPC said all that stuff about the WC MvC2 players they would have played him just as hard if there was no money on the line.

Though I am in favor of matches for various foodstuffs.

Though perhaps it's just a different focus for me than other people, I try to maximize the fun I have, not the hype. I really could care less how much exaggerated publicity a game I play in gets, just want to have a good time playing it.

[Viscant]

As someone who didn't have a job when MvC2/CvS1 were new and basically supported himself through money matches and tournament winnings, I should probably say something.

Maybe I'm just a gambler. When I was in college, my roommate and I used to bet on what color hair the next person who walked in would have (until I found out he was rigging it, fucking cheapass). I've bet on sports since I was 10 years old and I'm a professional gambler now. I almost got kicked off my high school golf team for running money matches during official practices. I know I'm not alone, competitive gaming has a whole lot of gamblers in the hobby. But for people who like gambling, betting on the outcome of a match (especially one you're not even actually playing in) seems no different from betting on golf or betting on football.


The "big money" MMs started mostly because idiots talk too much shit. You have no idea how tiresome/boring it gets reading emails/IMs/message board posts from idiots saying how much you suck and how much better they are than you and how if they were playing you on _____ video, they would have totally whooped your ass. I used to get 5-6 of these idiots a day when I was still good at games. God knows how much of it Justin gets. MM is a good solution to this problem. It a) puts idiots in their place, b) makes me feel good about myself and c) makes it so that I don't have to get a real job. I see no losing in this for me. I see a lot of losing in it for shit talking idiots, which is always a good thing.

I will say that I agree with you on one thing. MM-only side matches during tournaments has to stop. Last year at Evo Worlds, the only way to get a match at the Marvel casual station was to put money on it. Because I just wanted to play I had to challenge Desmond to a MM, which was pretty gay IMO. I think that more people should do MMs in their rooms and leave the BYOC area to simply casual play but what do I know.

Bottom line though, this is a hobby mostly comprised of 18-29 year old males, all of whom are at major tournaments trying to prove something. You're not going to stop beef between groups like this so MMs are kind of inevitable. At least it cuts down on the amount of SF4 in the parking lot going on, so it's kind of the lesser of two evils. Plus winning a RL fight doesn't benefit you too much. Winning a MM does.

--Jay Snyder
Viscant@aol.com

[Deus]

i'll play you a few casual games derek

i can also vouch for derek's skill

[ruin-]

I can vouch for derek boy got still and he's mad chill <3

[Obliterate]

I don't have a problem with small money matches, maybe 1 dollar per match, just for shits and giggles. But there's no way in hell I would ever bet big money, I just have way too many responsibilities (bills, rent, etc.) and couldn't afford to lose it. I'm with you on games being relaxing, I do it to relax and have fun, not for more stress.

[Storming Flower]

I agree, money matches can be fun, but now in the mvc2 crowd it's usually for people who can't place or choke in tournies that feel the need to prove something.

At last evo, I saw that one person "cableguy" repeatedly asking some xvssf player to mm him since he lost to him in he tourney, other guy kept declining and looked annoyed.

[Deus]

I agree, money matches can be fun, but now in the mvc2 crowd it's usually for people who can't place or choke in tournies that feel the need to prove something.

At last evo, I saw that one person "cableguy" repeatedly asking some xvssf player to mm him since he lost to him in he tourney, other guy kept declining and looked annoyed.

yeah cableguy is a real piece of shit

[power333]

I do agree that there is almost too much of a focus on MMs, I don't really see too many people posting up in threads asking people for casuals. (I mean it happens, but the ratio of that to MM is like 10:1).



Thats a misconception IMO. You don't have to post on a forum to set casual matches. YTou just need a quarter and you can do them alive if the players are there. For MMs, you need some planning, and that's why they're all over the INTERNET.


Though I do think it's dumb for people who refuse to play anything but money matches, where's the fun in that? It's like going to a convention for any hobby, and being able to get tips and stuff from pros, how much would it suck if to get your art portfolio just looked at for a few minutes and the guy wanted 100 bucks?


Its all a matter of degree. What if you want legal advice for free? Or medical consultations? As long as there is a demand for it (legal advice, english lessons, golfing lessons, videogame matches) money will be exchanged.

[Larry Flynt]

Heh I love threads like these...



Anyway you think MM are dumb but without them Marvel would be dead. And if you don't think so you are just in denial. Money matches just makes Marvel more fun these days. The best part about MM are everybody can get into them even if they don't play Marvel. Perfect example was Duc vs Sanford last year at EVO. Yeah it was fun to watch when they played during the tournament, but it was like the greatest show on earth when they played with 3000 on the line.


Also most players in here are right about top-players. I will play anybody but if I feel I'm better than you I will fool around. However if you wanna play for money, I don't care if I'm better than you or not, I'm gonna play for real. Plus if gives up and coming players a chance to play top-players.


Money Matches also help players get good especially if they have no tournaments in their area. Two perfect examples are Yipes and Erik. You think them two got through tournaments? Hell no! They we betting every week at Chinatown with the $yndicate stepping their game up. Now look at them now, GODLIKE!!!


I do see your point about not to be able to do some casuals anymore because of MM but honestly, so what? It's a small price to pay for the community to keep going. So say what you want about MM but if they weren't around, you probably be playing 3s or Guilty Gear.

[|AD|]

soooo... ummm Derek... can you paypal me my money back that you won in the hotel at FRX ;( lol

haha 4th, you're just too good !

[Vercette]

That makes two of us!