Did all CPS2 fighters after XMvSF receive animation cuts?

[Joe Asakura]

As of late I've been replaying the first 3 CPS2 Marvel titles (especially CotA and MSH) and once again am reminded of the labor of love in which Capcom created these games and their wonderful animation (again, CotA and MSH), something which I don't take for granted as much considering I haven't been spoiled by modern-day consoles and hi-res/HD fare..............yet. After XMvSF though, I noticed that both MSHvSF (lazy lazy lazy!) and MVC1 didn't seem to have that "oomph" in the animation department. Their presentations and super move sequences may have become much flashier and eye-catching, but seemingly at the expense of the formely fluid animation. Am I just imagining things or did the mighty CPS2 hardware itself have it's own limits and ended up reaching them???

Regardless, it took until the Dreamcast for a stock game console to perfectly port over CPS2 (and Neo-Geo) fighters which really reminds me how much those fighters raped the PS1 and (stock) Saturn hardwares (prime example: the PS1 port of CotA). Still though, what's this I've heard about the "perfect" Dreamcast CPS2 ports still being somehow off??? (And I'm not talking about just SFZ3U)

And were all animation frames entirely intact for MvC2 (which I've never owned a copy of personally............don't hurt me)???

Back on topic about the PS1/Saturn ports, anyone ever noticed that as far as animation cuts go for those CPS2 ports that the Marvel characters always got the brunt of the animation cuts??? The Capcom fighters were barely unscathed unless you were Zangief or Dhalsim.

[Mixah]

Shockingly, I've found that most people consider MvC 1 to be the most well-planned of the series. MSvsSF was just horrid. I believe that the animation was altered to better gameplay. While the older games ARE fun, MSH and XvSF especially, I think they were headed more towards the gameplay of MvC2, as seen by the addition of assists. They were focused more on teh gameplay than the animation.

What perfect DC ports? The only CPS2 game that was on it was SFA3U, and it was shit. MvC2 was a Naomi game, as was CvS2, and since DC is essentially a naomi system, it had perfect MvC2 and CvS2 ports. Saturn CPS2 games were the best until the PS2 version of vampire collection, alpha anthology and the ccc2 Super Turbo were released. Still waiting on a vs. series port.

The reason marvel cahracters got it worse is beacuse of the demanding memory of their sprites. compared to ryu, ken, chun etc... how much harder do you think it would take to render in hulk, thanos, and juggernaught?

[9TNine]

The only CPS2 game that was on it was SFA3U, and it was shit.

MVC1. Also, SFZ3U was Naomi, not CPS2. Original A3 was CPS2 though.

-9

[Mixah]

oh yeah... i always mistake that for CPS3, even though i have it for mame. haha

but yeah, then that's it. 2 games.

@TC don't mistake. MvC2 was NOT a CPS game. it was Naomi, like CvS, CvS2, Giga Wing 2, and all the other games that came out for DC almost exclusively.

[felineki]

CPS2 did indeed have limits, and DID end up reaching them. That's the reason Vampire Savior 2 and Vampire Hunter 2 ended up being two separate games. There simply wan't enough storage space to hold the sprites for the full roster.

[Mixah]

CPS2 did indeed have limits, and DID end up reaching them. That's the reason Vampire Savior 2 and Vampire Hunter 2 ended up being two separate games. There simply wan't enough storage space to hold the sprites for the full roster.

i did NOT know this. nice.

[SaBrE]

animation frame cuts were simply due to storage space on cps2 hardware like felineki said. cota and msh had tons of animation but only a a few characters in the roster. from xsf and on, that roster got much larger, plus the fact now that the game has to load up 4 characters at once instead of 2, also causes much strain. its all a matter of hardware limits

[Rhio2k]

Any idea why the art for the then-major capcom fighter series started sucking after Alpha2, Xmen vs, and Nightwarriors? People tell me Bengus was still the artist...what happened? Did he/she forget how to draw, or lose his/her dominant drawing hand in some freak accident?

[Dumehra]

I agree. I actually liked MSH vs SF. About CPS 2 and Naomi, I think MvC 1 looks great animationwise. It even kicks MvC 2's ass. Just look at Ryu. Compare his MvC 1 and 2 versions. MvC 1 version looks and moves better and fireball effects were fantastic. The sprites in MvC 1 just appears to be better. You can see Ryu's eyes and other shit way more clearly in MvC 1. The color palletes were also better. MvC 2 had better environment graphics, effects and transparencies but MvC 1's sprites and animation owns!

[Joe Asakura]

Yeah, I already knew MvC2 was a Naomi game. I was just asking that with the increased horsepower and storage space of the NAOMI if all of the characters retained their animation frames instead of their cut-down MSHvSF/MVC1 versions.

As for Dreamcast CPS2 ports, I was talking about MVC1, SFZ3U (because the meat of the game is STILL CPS2) and SSF2T, which (for MVC1 and SSF2T) I've heard looked and have washed out colors, messed-up resolutions and whatnot.

[Mixah]

super turbo didn't exist, nor did puzzle fighter on dreamcast... let's just forget they were even there, likewise with vampire... in fact, the only cps2 game that exists on the cast is marvel... forget the rest.

[Return of Shiki]

I agree. I actually liked MSH vs SF. About CPS 2 and Naomi, I think MvC 1 looks great animationwise. It even kicks MvC 2's ass. Just look at Ryu. Compare his MvC 1 and 2 versions. MvC 1 version looks and moves better and fireball effects were fantastic. The sprites in MvC 1 just appears to be better. You can see Ryu's eyes and other shit way more clearly in MvC 1. The color palletes were also better. MvC 2 had better environment graphics, effects and transparencies but MvC 1's sprites and animation owns!

That's because Ryu was an entirely new sprite that was never re-used after MvC1.

MvC2 used the Alpha sprite of Ryu again to save memory. Really, even on the Naomi there's no way to have 56 characters without a hell of a lot of animation cuts. I think of the new characters, they made Cable first, gave him a ton of animation, and then realized when they wanted to up the roster that they had make a lot of drastic cuts. (see: Hayato, Jill)

[Mixah]

i could have sworn that the mvc sprite of ryu was the alpha sprite with a different pallette

[SaBrE]

mvc1 ryu, it sure as hell isnt the xsf or mvsf sprite. its more of the alpha sprite, even then, i didnt care for that sprite compared to xsf

[Return of Shiki]

No XvSF, MSHvSF, and MvC2 use the Alpha Ryu.

MvC1 Ryu is not the same. He has animations, poses, and facial expressions he doesn't have in Alpha or the other versus games.

[Pablo_the_Mex]

MSH vs Street fighter was awesome. I always felt it had awesome animations.

[True Grave]

As of late I've been replaying the first 3 CPS2 Marvel titles (especially CotA and MSH) and once again am reminded of the labor of love in which Capcom created these games and their wonderful animation (again, CotA and MSH), something which I don't take for granted as much considering I haven't been spoiled by modern-day consoles and hi-res/HD fare..............yet. After XMvSF though, I noticed that both MSHvSF (lazy lazy lazy!) and MVC1 didn't seem to have that "oomph" in the animation department. Their presentations and super move sequences may have become much flashier and eye-catching, but seemingly at the expense of the formely fluid animation. Am I just imagining things or did the mighty CPS2 hardware itself have it's own limits and ended up reaching them???

Regardless, it took until the Dreamcast for a stock game console to perfectly port over CPS2 (and Neo-Geo) fighters which really reminds me how much those fighters raped the PS1 and (stock) Saturn hardwares (prime example: the PS1 port of CotA). Still though, what's this I've heard about the "perfect" Dreamcast CPS2 ports still being somehow off??? (And I'm not talking about just SFZ3U)

And were all animation frames entirely intact for MvC2 (which I've never owned a copy of personally............don't hurt me)???

Back on topic about the PS1/Saturn ports, anyone ever noticed that as far as animation cuts go for those CPS2 ports that the Marvel characters always got the brunt of the animation cuts??? The Capcom fighters were barely unscathed unless you were Zangief or Dhalsim.

There were animation cuts for whatever reason in MVC2. Look at cyclops in X-Men:COTA and then MVC2- his running, standing, and crouching animations are missing some original frames(just sits still when crouching).

Also for some reason colossus's giant swing animation is totally different from his swing move in COTA. His standing animation also lacks frames from the original, as does sentinel standing, among others.


MSH vs Street fighter was awesome. I always felt it had awesome animations.


I enjoyed that title as lot as well! The presentation, music, select/fight screens, and animation quirks were all awesome, and the cast was a very fun mix-up.

Brings back fond memories from my Sega Saturn days, back when i had the saturn port of it in 98' :wonder:

[Sonic_Reaper]

It's no secret that the Street Fighter Alpha sprites (which were used for the majority of the versus games) had ASS for animation. They looked like pure liquified shit when placed alongside any of the Marvel characters. I would fathom that to be one of the reason for frame cuts on the Marvel side. The SF characters went unscathed because they didn't have that many frames of animation to begin with :(

as does sentinel standing

Sentinel was RAPED animation wise in MvC2. He just kinda stutters in place instead of the fluid complicated and silky smooth little jig he used to have :(

[Joe Asakura]

Heh, even the NAOMI was strained handling all those sprites. Sounds like they subbed the original CPS2 sprites with the sprites from some of the old PS1/Saturn ports. :rofl: The CPS2 Marvel-only games and the SFIII series still have the best animation in a 2D-fighter. Scratch the higher resolutions and the 3D-hardware powered animations, I'm talking about ANIMATION.

As for MSHvSF, the gameplay itself sucked (as to a lesser extent the roster), but the presentation was truly tops and for awhile turned me into a fanatic of a game, preferring it over XMvSF and even MvC1. I waited and SALIVATED for the PS1 port to finally hit the U.S, and suffered and salivated even more at seeing and hearing about the Saturn port (and even getting to try it out once at this store). The PS1 ports of MSHvSF and MvC1 turned out to be better than the horrid XMvSF port because the original coin-ops already had cut down animation, but MvC1 apparently suffered almost as much as XMvSF because the PS1 couldn't possibly handle 2 sprites+assist and sure as hell 4 sprites on screen simultaneously. I tried out the port a couple of weeks ago, it was hilarious. :rofl:

How has the PS2 handled 2D fighting game ports up until now??? *hasn't bought or owned anything more modern than a Dreamcast*

[goodm0urning]

How has the PS2 handled 2D fighting game ports up until now??? *hasn't bought or owned anything more modern than a Dreamcast*PS2 ports are generally solid. So, how are things back in 1999?

[Joe Asakura]

Pretty............uncomplicated if you ask me. My DC doesn't cook my dinner, suck me off or shine my shoes like all of these newfangled game systems do. It just plays games. :wgrin:

*is just 20 years old and missed out on the entire last generation of gaming due to apathy/laziness/lack of interest*

Man, I'm so out of the loop.............

[Dumehra]

The PS2 2d ports were awesome except for Marvel vs capcom 2 which had crappy sound effects, certain things that worked in the arcade are missing and some weird slowdowns. The music sounds perfect though. Same with the XBOX port of MvC2.

[True Grave]

It's no secret that the Street Fighter Alpha sprites (which were used for the majority of the versus games) had ASS for animation. They looked like pure liquified shit when placed alongside any of the Marvel characters.

No, it is just that X-Men:COTA and MSH had like 5 times the animation in its chars than the alpha series. So when finally throwing them into a game together, that is all they had to work with was the less advanced alpha sprites.

Many of them still look good like guile and Ken.

I would fathom that to be one of the reason for frame cuts on the Marvel side.

Perhaps keeping all the animation would've messed around with game play. Like all the SF characters having best priority in their moves, due to coming out faster because of less frames or something like that.

[Joe Asakura]

The CPS1 (yes because the source IS the CPS1 shoto sprite) Akuma in CotA was a real kick. Now that we're talking about CotA (and I brought this up in another thread), does anyone know exactly why it took so long for the PS1 port of CotA to come out??? The port was advertised on the LAUNCH boxes of the PS1 system and the Japanese Saturn port came out in late 1995, while the PS1 port was finally released (domestic-only) in February 1998. It seems to me like some legal mumbo-jumbo on top of the difficuly porting over the game was the culprit but I don't know exactly. Surprisingly about 75% of the animation frames were kept in (more than any other Capcom PS1 port, and remember this is CotA I'm talking about).............at the expense of the frame rate which could get as high as 50-55 fps on sparsly animated backgrounds and literally slow to a HALT on animated backgrounds or whenever lots of stuff goes on on-screen. By far the worst slowdown I've seen and experienced on a 2D fighter. Acclaim/Probe handled this port or at least finished up whatever work Capcom did, while Capcom did the Saturn port (how was that one?).

Oh, and the opening and ending sequences were all rendered in grainy-ass FMV, and all of the unique character endings were erased and replaced with one stock ending. XmvSF.CotA.MVC1. The trifecta of CRAP PS1 CPS2 ports.

[True Grave]

The CPS1 (yes because the source IS the CPS1 shoto sprite) Akuma in CotA was a real kick. Now that we're talking about CotA (and I brought this up in another thread), does anyone know exactly why it took so long for the PS1 port of CotA to come out??? The port was advertised on the LAUNCH boxes of the PS1 system and the Japanese Saturn port came out in late 1995, while the PS1 port was finally released (domestic-only) in February 1998. It seems to me like some legal mumbo-jumbo on top of the difficuly porting over the game was the culprit but I don't know exactly. Surprisingly about 75% of the animation frames were kept in (more than any other Capcom PS1 port, and remember this is CotA I'm talking about).............at the expense of the frame rate which could get as high as 50-55 fps on sparsly animated backgrounds and literally slow to a HALT on animated backgrounds or whenever lots of stuff goes on on-screen. By far the worst slowdown I've seen and experienced on a 2D fighter. Acclaim/Probe handled this port or at least finished up whatever work Capcom did, while Capcom did the Saturn port (how was that one?).

Oh, and the opening and ending sequences were all rendered in grainy-ass FMV, and all of the unique character endings were erased and replaced with one stock ending. XmvSF.CotA.MVC1. The trifecta of CRAP PS1 CPS2 ports.

The saturn port, while it had some animation cuts too, it was pretty great! PSX version was most likely delayed simply because it was so hard to do a game with that much animation on the PSX's limited Ram. Probe didn't even have the rights at first, the project was handed off to them later on when the original team had to do work on something else.

I had the PSX version for a while, it was a surprisingly decent port! I was especially impressed at the way a lot of the original animation was retained, and the game speed was still decent and not bogged with slowdown. The crew that did that one should have done the PSX port of Marvel Super Heroes- That one not only was missing a lot of animation, the slowdown was also insane.

XmvSF.CotA.MVC1. The trifecta of CRAP PS1 CPS2 ports.

No way. The Psx port of MVC1 was brilliantly done given the limited resources the Playstation had to work with!

XMVsSF did indeed suck, but the capcom team learned how to make best use of the PSX by the time MVC1 rolled around. A lot of the original animation was present, the sprites were colorful, and there was almost no slowdown. Impressive.

[Mixah]

The SNK ports on PS2 aren't the greatest. The SvC game is decent. The KoF2k3 has the issuss of the arcade fixed up. They're all decent, but none are arcade perfect, like the SF3 port, which is about perfect as you can get, and the super turbo port, which is the best one so far.

and marvel vs street fighter was worse on PSX than MvC