STFU and play

[inkblot]

Yeah so, back in my day (I'm exercising one of my privileges as an old man. Deal with it), players got respect by winning tournaments, not by posting videos on YouTube. I suppose this crap was inevitable given that there hasn't been a new tournament game in forever, but things have reached a new level of stupidity.

To me it looks like 99.99% of the Marvel community has just given up on ever winning a tournament, and is looking for any alternate way of gaining recognition. This is the favorite refuge of the scrub (YES, I SAID IT) -- you can't compete in the "real" game so you make up your own alternate game with some bullshit rules and try to be the best at that. Money match, race to 50, I pick your characters, and you have to play with the controller upside-down. But it's for $1400, so it's gotta be tops, right? Right?

There's nothing wrong with a money match. We all love em. But I draw the line when EXHIBITION play becomes more of a draw than tournament play, and mid-tier players who wouldn't make the semi-final bracket at Evo are the new Marvel celebrities.

xoxo,
-bitter old man

[Master Chibi]

Can I get an amen?

[Dark Geese]

Wow I need to pay more attention to Marvel :sweat:

[Magnetro]

maybe its cause of wong, lol.

btw answer my neg rep!

[JaHa]

STFU AND STOP SNITCHIN YA SNITCH BITCH


well said ink

[Zeruel]

Damn, I've felt that way for years....

[spudlyff8fan]

Yeah...heaven for fend MvC2 becomes more about flashy stuff than gameplay :rolleyes:

[Fir]

Wow I need to pay more attention to Marvel :sweat:

Same, I'm just a scrub anyway...

:7

[b1gazn]

maybe its cause of wong, lol.

Honestly is there anybody in any other game that is as dominate as he is? With the record of winning almost all the tournaments that he has entered, especially after everybody got more advanced?

Sanford is great to watch and might be better than JWong but there is nobody as consistent as JWong.


Video game celebrities is as big of a joke as MTV having quality television. :rolleyes:

[shoo]

good read,
keep up the ranting :tup:

[XTG]

Honestly is there anybody in any other game that is as dominate as he is? With the record of winning almost all the tournaments that he has entered, especially after everybody got more advanced?

Sanford is great to watch and might be better than JWong but there is nobody as consistent as JWong.


Video game celebrities is as big of a joke as MTV having quality television. :rolleyes:


so Thresh, Fatality, Daigo, and Justin Wong are jokes? cmon, im sure you know better than that.

[The Granby]

I've always wondered about that, maybe money matches make a game more popular. In the VF community I've never seen a big money match ever go on. We mostly just play for like hours on hour on hours of death matches.

A part of me feels that if VF had hype money matches like Marvel maybe American gamers would actually give the game a try. But a part of me also feels that would ruin the VF community right now cause most of our community is based on kindness and respect (seriously, VF players are too nice).

I don't know, a lot of the people here in SoCal who play VF have been promoting it since VF3 (around the time Marvel came out and then got insanely popular) and probably were still as nice and open back then as now. But 8 years down the road Marvel vs. Capcom 2 is probably one of the most popular fighting games in America, hell it's literally THE American fighting game. VF has had 2 iterations since those days, one of which was possibly the best console fighting game ever made. But still no life for the game.

Anyhow, I hope people save the best play for all games for EVO Finals. I enjoy watching Marvel even though I don't play it and I admit the hype for it is awesome.

[Viscant]

I'm pretty sure Valle never lost an A2 tournament. If he did, he lost early and then went on a huge streak of owning everyone. But yeah, Marvel is pretty stratified.

That's not what really causes the whole rash of trash at Marvel though. The thing about Marvel is, there are more top players at Marvel than there are for any other game right now. Since it's such an old game, probably more than any other game we've ever played. There are probably at least 50 people out there who are legitimately really good at Marvel. And probably 100-200 more just below that who are almost that good but still really skilled. It sucks being in this group because I mean...you're hella good but you're still never gonna win shit just because you're beneath all these other great players...and even they're behind Sanford/Wong/etc. Compare that to CvS2 or 3s where there's like...less than 1/3 as many people who are legitimately scary.

With all these good players who don't get enough recognition through the traditional tournament scene, it's going to cause a lot of friction and stuff that is most easily solved through money matches or extracurricular activities. It just happens, it's one of those things about Marvel that I think you just have to kind of accept.

Oh yeah, and a lot of you fuckers are attention whores. Don't forget that part.

--Jay Snyder
Viscant@aol.com

[Bobbypigo]

Word is bond Inkblot, you hit the nail on the head.

[Henaki]

So everyone being popular is somehow detrimental to the scene?

I'd rather mid-tier players get some recognition, small recognition, but recognition at that. It gives baby steps for everybody to work through. No longer do you have to go through the tough journey alone to make it to the top, it's not a one tier ladder, it's a 20 tier ladder, and frankly, it makes it easier for everyone to have a chance at the top.

Of course, if a 5000 dollar money match happens and it's two people who can't triangle jump or some shit are playing, then yeah it's pretty dumb.

Edit: Also, exposure to mid level play is good, mostly because a lot of people are deluded to think that only high level matches will teach you anything. There's stuff in mid level matches that you will encounter and won't be able to beat, and you don't see it in high level play for a reason.

[b1gazn]

so Thresh, Fatality, Daigo, and Justin Wong are jokes? cmon, im sure you know better than that.

they are talented but turning video game players into celebrities is a joke. Why not house the volunteer firefighter? Why not pay for a teacher to travel?

Your priorities are outta wack.

[MrWizard]

wow, just wow.

[XTG]

ce·leb·ri·ty /səˈlɛbrɪti/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[suh-leb-ri-tee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural -ties for 1. 1. a famous or well-known person.
2. fame; renown.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Origin: 1350–1400; ME < L celebritās multitude, fame, festal celebration, equiv. to celebr- (s. of celeber) often repeated, famous + -itās -ity]


—Synonyms 2. distinction, note, eminence, stardom.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.

why are my priorities being questioned? im questioning your personal definition of "celebrity". why are you bringing volunteer firefighters and traveling teachers into this thread? stay on topic.

[usea]

Clearly there is something wrong here, but I think your rant is a little misdirected (or imprecise anyway).

What is the problem exactly? You seem to be implying that the players engaging in exhibition play or money matches are causing a problem. Sure they have ignorant attitudes, vandalize property etc, but that's a separate issue. Then you go to say you "draw the line" when they get more attention than tournament play. So is the problem the money matches or the community for giving them too much attention?

In my opinion, which admittedly means very little, the problem isn't who is getting respect or attention, or what rules people use for exhibition matches. To be blunt, the entire community's attitude is retarded. Respect is irrelevant. Attention is unimportant. If a bunch of socially and mentally challenged people are paying attention to a loud, violent jackass, who gives a shit about them? STFU and play.

[Bobbypigo]

whoa, now word is bond!
Big-up tp STFU and play.

[insomnotek]

stfu and play

nice!

[SIMPLY_HUGO]

I cant play so i must talk shit...90% of my game XD


Im not known yet..but give me time ill ass rape evo from here to sbo

[Bobbypigo]

I cant play so i must talk shit...90% of my game XD


Im not known yet..but give me time ill ass rape evo from here to sbo


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Dark Geese]

they are talented but turning video game players into celebrities is a joke. Why not house the volunteer firefighter? Why not pay for a teacher to travel?

Your priorities are outta wack.

Hey I am a teacher and a future videogame celeb so I both understand and take offense to that....lol.

[Shinto]

Werd.

[Bill Wood]

Very well said, and I have to say it's more than likely the cash involved that makes a lot of those "mid-tier" (your words, not mine) matches so interesting (from an outsider's perspective, that is). I don't care if a person is the worst Marvel player in the world and spends every other month in juvi; if there's upwards of three grand riding on a match, people are naturally going to get hyped about it. In my world, 3g's equals two mortgage payments, and to put that up for a videogame -- no matter how good you think you may be -- is f-cking insane.

I don't even play Marvel, but if I'd be willing to bet if I hopped on these boards and started spewing nonsense about how great I am and how crappy everyone else is and was putting up thousands for money matches to back up my mouth, it would get noticed. Is that the right thing to do? Probably not, unless you're a complete attention whore. Nonetheless, it's an easy way to get people's heads turned. As for the other aspects that don't pertain to the actual match (namecalling, threats, etc.), I couldn't care less.

[Emil]

To me it looks like 99.99% of the Marvel community has just given up on ever winning a tournament, and is looking for any alternate way of gaining recognition.

Since when was winning tournaments the only valid way of gaining recognition? Since when was any other way an "alternate" way?

This is the favorite refuge of the scrub (YES, I SAID IT) -- you can't compete in the "real" game so you make up your own alternate game with some bullshit rules and try to be the best at that. Money match, race to 50, I pick your characters, and you have to play with the controller upside-down. But it's for $1400, so it's gotta be tops, right? Right?

Well, someone could just say "well, this is the favorite refuge of the scrub -- you can't compete in the money matches, race to 50's, pick your characters and play with controller upside-downs, so you go back to your tournaments, which you claim are the only ways to gain valid recognition".

It's odd how the title of your thread is "STFU and play". After all, you should just let other people play with whatever rules (money match, race to 50, whatever) they want, and mind your own business.

[goodm0urning]

I think the issue--plain and simple--is the way a lot of people seem to believe that without the big money matches going down, Evo isn't worth it. And that's a bunch of bullshit, if you ask me. That's what Inkblot is getting at. It doesn't have quite as much to do just with who gets recognized for what as you might think.

[goodm0urning]

Hey I am a teacher and a future videogame celeb so I both understand and take offense to that....lol.You'll never get famous playing KOF. Better play a real game, like 3S.



(Just joking... please don't come to my house strapped.)

[ramza]

Since when was winning tournaments the only valid way of gaining recognition? Since when was any other way an "alternate" way?


because it is:confused:

[Allosaurus]

Hey I am a teacher so I understand and take offense to that....lol.

Fixed.

[TheGreaterForce]

I Play Marvel ALL DAY, EVERYDAY.

Fixed.

[Emil]

because it is:confused:

Don't get me wrong, I actually do believe in most of what his post was saying - that winning tournaments means more than winning money matches (and possibly race to 50's, depending on who you are racing). However, he seems to be implying that winning tourneys is the only valid way of gaining recognition. Even if he isn't, the fact that his thread title was "STFU and play", yet he was complaining about how others are playing, doesn't make sense.

[Allosaurus]

Fixed.

:wonder:

[<---SiNN--->]

I am a KOF Fanboy,I try to win people over to kof,but srk realize that the kof fourms is that way------------->

Fixed

[DEMON_JIM]

Nice read Inkblot, you hit the nail on the head.

-DJ-

[XTG]

Fixed

he's the one traveling to Juarez, Toronto, and Stamford...yet he gets clowned? cmon now...

[inkblot]

However, he seems to be implying that winning tourneys is the only valid way of gaining recognition.


Except that I explicitly did not say that. Maybe re-read my original post.


Even if he isn't, the fact that his thread title was "STFU and play", yet he was complaining about how others are playing, doesn't make sense.

Not how. Why. The core of the SF community is competitive play -- trying to be the very best at the game. Even though most players do not have a realistic shot of ever being #1, SF players have consistently tried to improve their games, and measure themselves against the rest of the field in the crucible of tournament play.

The Marvel community is straying increasingly from this tradition. Tournament play is becoming an after-thought in the Marvel community. "Winning money" is replacing "winning tournaments" as the standard of success.

[r3ko]

Yes Emil, cause Inkblot wouldn't make any sense :rolleyes:

[Dark Geese]

KOF Fanboy me?? Hahaha..what did I tell you?

KOF is a part of SNK...a small part at that...

Thats like saying someone who is PRO-CAPCOM everything is "just a SF fanboy"

That is an INSULT!!!!!!

People will continue to embrace SNK...and while I'm at it Sinn and those that love to "fix" my quote just to nitpick...as the thread says...****STFU and play......ME!!!!!!!! Hahaa :rofl: (Sinn and AF mainly who I'm talking to)

[Keits]

Except that I explicitly did not say that. Maybe re-read my original post.



Not how. Why. The core of the SF community is competitive play -- trying to be the very best at the game. Even though most players do not have a realistic shot of ever being #1, SF players have consistently tried to improve their games, and measure themselves against the rest of the field in the crucible of tournament play.

The Marvel community is straying increasingly from this tradition. Tournament play is becoming an after-thought in the Marvel community. "Winning money" is replacing "winning tournaments" as the standard of success.


Isn't that a choice each player has to make? When recording artists start to value money over 'art', people say they 'sold out'. In reality, its simply the natural progression of things that involve large ammounts of money.

The fact that this is catching more attention from the spectators is another situation entirely. And I agree, the focus should be on the competiton in its most organized form... not on the money matches. But in the same token, its hard to blame those who want to play in them.

Its funny, because in music, when a band/singer's fan base accuses them of selling out, their audience there also tends to grow. May they lose large part of their origional fan base? Yeah... but how many new ones are gained? I could draw similarities here. The 'old fans', like you and I, take up a "Oh for SHAME!" attitude... while hoards of new fans pour in to see these MvC2 players that we think have 'sold out' (or are doing it the 'wrong way').

I dont disagree with you Inkblot, im just playing devil's advocate and trying to shed light via comparison.

[GreyFoxx]

Good Stuff

[fishjie]

they are talented but turning video game players into celebrities is a joke. Why not house the volunteer firefighter? Why not pay for a teacher to travel?

Your priorities are outta wack.

oh please, so jenifer aniston and brad pitt and angelina jolie are worth of being celebrities over volunteer firefighters and teachers? :rolleyes:

or how about sports atheletes? im sure you think thats ok dont you?

fact is, gaming isnt mainstream in america. but it will be within the decade. kind of like how it is in korea (http://youtube.com/watch?v=nkzYssPZ9Rs). once it is, gamers will be celebrities. just like in korea. where they have adoring fans and advertising endorsements and make heavy bank.

[De4dEyE]

Yeah...heaven for fend MvC2 becomes more about flashy stuff than gameplay :rolleyes:

What the fuck did you just type?

[Corner-Trap]

Can I get an amen?

Holla luyah

*Probably spelled that wrong*

[TS]

Hallelujah.

And I have to agree with Ink.

[GoLD-ReaVeR]

I need a history lesson: how's the concept of a money match ever born?

As for the topic starter: My view on it is that players tend to play games locally and if you're the local champion, why not make a few bucks while you're at it? Consider it people donating money to the 'better' player (locally) and playing them afterwards. I also think(but I have no way to confirm the situation in the US) that the lower-mid level players have no other method of increasing their skills in the game, there's noone to guage your progression against until you challenge them into a money match. And honestly this is what will or maybe has cripple(d) the entire MvC community.

The remedy is fairly simple: ban money matches. I mean, how often do you hear anything about money matches in SF or CvS2? I've heard about one money match occurring and that was in my own country. GG players in US had one with a pot of 10$. And those communities are still pretty sharp on competition.

[polarity]

i think this has less to do with money (although that's definitely a part of it) and more to do with simply grudge matches and drama. obviously the unstated allusion you're making here is to the DPC drama, and i don't think the reason people are so interested in that is because of the money involved, but just because of the shit talking and drama. you can argue that these things shouldn't be more interesting than top-tier tournament play, but the fact is, after 7 years of the game being out, perhaps they are. you can claim that's wrong all you like, but you can't change what people are entertained by. an ideal situation would be to have the very best players involved in drama amongst themselves, but if they won't deliver that, people like DPC will step up to the plate. clearly there is a demand for it.

[mastermind]

What the fuck did you just type?

Hahaha I saw that too. Hidden Village of Grammar!

[Corner-Trap]

I need a history lesson: how's the concept of a money match ever born?

As for the topic starter: My view on it is that players tend to play games locally and if you're the local champion, why not make a few bucks while you're at it? Consider it people donating money to the 'better' player (locally) and playing them afterwards. I also think(but I have no way to confirm the situation in the US) that the lower-mid level players have no other method of increasing their skills in the game, there's noone to guage your progression against until you challenge them into a money match. And honestly this is what will or maybe has cripple(d) the entire MvC community.

The remedy is fairly simple: ban money matches. I mean, how often do you hear anything about money matches in SF or CvS2? I've heard about one money match occurring and that was in my own country. GG players in US had one with a pot of 10$. And those communities are still pretty sharp on competition.

1) MvC2 is pretty much America's #1 fighting game, so I don't see how it's crippled. And it only seems to be growing at this point.

2) Now how in the hell are you going to ban MM's?

[EM]

money on my mind cause money is all i think of

[NiGhTmArE®]

The race to 50 is fuckin ridiculous I must say. Money matches are for retards also. If you wanna money, better find a job, fuckin fat ass lazy mfer.

[polarity]

another fucking retarded post from nightmare, keep up the good work buddy

[Vance]

To me it looks like 99.99% of the Marvel community has just given up on ever winning a tournament, and is looking for any alternate way of gaining recognition. This is the favorite refuge of the scrub (YES, I SAID IT) -- you can't compete in the "real" game so you make up your own alternate game with some bullshit rules and try to be the best at that. Money match, race to 50, I pick your characters, and you have to play with the controller upside-down. But it's for $1400, so it's gotta be tops, right? Right?

Recognition? I thought people played money matches because:

a) They want to "buy" some competition (aka someone can't find any decent competition anywhere so he or she bribes a top-tier/mid-tier player to a money match to test/prove their skills, or

b) They want to humiliate somebody (aka somebody thinks they're so awesome that they challenge an established/tournament player to a money match to humiliate them. Established player happily agrees for free money and to humiliate alleged scrub), or

c) They need money.

[GoLD-ReaVeR]

1) MvC2 is pretty much America's #1 fighting game, so I don't see how it's crippled. And it only seems to be growing at this point.

2) Now how in the hell are you going to ban MM's?
1) The size wasn't what I was talking about, the community is crippled in the manner it simply wont progress, it won't learn anything new.

2) Good question, banning them from tournaments such as evo could be a start, have them do that shit in no mans land rather then public areas. Secondly, people need to stop doing money matches by themselves, there is no way anyone can help them with that. If people just keep challenging the higher ranks or keep accepting from the lower ranks stuff won't change a bit. Also, I do think that the higher ranks should be less picky about who they play with, in 3s we have a guy who's been playing for 6 months and is performing pretty well; and this is because he gets to play the higher levels in our country regulary.

[Corner-Trap]

The race to 50 is fuckin ridiculous I must say. Money matches are for retards also. If you wanna money, better find a job, fuckin fat ass lazy mfer.

Uhhhh...... you do realize most top players honestly do have jobs right? MM's are only here to get more hype in the community, and making sure the scene stays alive. I seriously don't understand how hard of a concept this is to understand for most people. MM's have been around since the days of SFII:WW, the only time they have ever gone truly out of hand was with DPC. It isn't like DP invented MM's, these things have been around for years. But with DPs arrival to the scene, everyones attitude about MM's all of a sudden changed.

[KING]

Hey I am a teacher and a future videogame celeb so I both understand and take offense to that....lol.

lukus, please stop self-inflating your ego. :wonder:

[Corner-Trap]

1) The size wasn't what I was talking about, the community is crippled in the manner it simply wont progress, it won't learn anything new.

2) Good question, banning them from tournaments such as evo could be a start, have them do that shit in no mans land rather then public areas. Secondly, people need to stop doing money matches by themselves, there is no way anyone can help them with that. If people just keep challenging the higher ranks or keep accepting from the lower ranks stuff won't change a bit. Also, I do think that the higher ranks should be less picky about who they play with, in 3s we have a guy who's been playing for 6 months and is performing pretty well; and this is because he gets to play the higher levels in our country regulary.

1) Won't progress? The Marvel scene is constantly growing with new players, how is that not progress? And haven't you seen all of the vids showing low tier beasts? How is that not learning?

2) Please do not take offense to this, but that idea is pretty retarded. Don't you realize that banning MM's from tourney's would only hurt the community as a whole? It will kill off a lot of hype and interest into the scene, and thus lead it to dieing out. As hard as this may be to accept, MM's are a huge part of the fighting game community, and taking that away will only lead to loss comp.

[Bunkei]

Yeah so, back in my day (I'm exercising one of my privileges as an old man. Deal with it), players got respect by winning tournaments, not by posting videos on YouTube. I suppose this crap was inevitable given that there hasn't been a new tournament game in forever, but things have reached a new level of stupidity.

To me it looks like 99.99% of the Marvel community has just given up on ever winning a tournament, and is looking for any alternate way of gaining recognition. This is the favorite refuge of the scrub (YES, I SAID IT) -- you can't compete in the "real" game so you make up your own alternate game with some bullshit rules and try to be the best at that. Money match, race to 50, I pick your characters, and you have to play with the controller upside-down. But it's for $1400, so it's gotta be tops, right? Right?

There's nothing wrong with a money match. We all love em. But I draw the line when EXHIBITION play becomes more of a draw than tournament play, and mid-tier players who wouldn't make the semi-final bracket at Evo are the new Marvel celebrities.

xoxo,
-bitter old man

I respectfully disagree; I think the whole point of playing a videogame (or any game for that matter) is to have fun. If people want to make themselves famous by posting videos, playing money matches, etc, let them do so.

Who are we to judge how a videogame should be played?

[comoesa]

money hypes up matches.



I wixh vf had money matches cause we rock yo socks bithces'

[Keits]

i think this has less to do with money (although that's definitely a part of it) and more to do with simply grudge matches and drama.

I think this is very true as well. Even with UFC, now gaining more popularity than its ever seen... you can see that they have infused a LOT more drama into the sport.

People love drama.

[UnknownEnemyZero]

About celebrities, actually in South Korea many Professional Starcraft Players are brought up in the media as celebrities. With fans numbering in the hundred thousands, not just male fans either at least 50% of fans are female. Type in SlayerS_`Boxer` into youtube or google and you'll get a lot of results. That's just how it is in South Korea though, but they exist so it doesn't completely kill the idea of a video game celebrity.

I don't think money matches could/should get banned. I just don't think it's necessary to be throwing out thousands for a couple of games.

[skisonic]

Yeah so, back in my day (I'm exercising one of my privileges as an old man. Deal with it), players got respect by winning tournaments, not by posting videos on YouTube. I suppose this crap was inevitable given that there hasn't been a new tournament game in forever, but things have reached a new level of stupidity.

To me it looks like 99.99% of the Marvel community has just given up on ever winning a tournament, and is looking for any alternate way of gaining recognition. This is the favorite refuge of the scrub (YES, I SAID IT) -- you can't compete in the "real" game so you make up your own alternate game with some bullshit rules and try to be the best at that. Money match, race to 50, I pick your characters, and you have to play with the controller upside-down. But it's for $1400, so it's gotta be tops, right? Right?

There's nothing wrong with a money match. We all love em. But I draw the line when EXHIBITION play becomes more of a draw than tournament play, and mid-tier players who wouldn't make the semi-final bracket at Evo are the new Marvel celebrities.

xoxo,
-bitter old man

What are you mad about? Why can't people play money games when there is a money game to be played, yet still be trying to get better and place and win in a tournament? I dont even know what you're really mad about, its hard to figure it out from your post. You must agree since so many people have responded yet you reply is "but thats not what im talking about". Can you make it clear, if you're gonna call out "99.99%" of a community like that?
Honestly, money matches generally don't even get to be that high, unless other players have sidebet. Therefore the other players have a vested interest in the match. That makes it extra interesting to watch (see sports betting), but again, I don't see why this notion takes away from a tourmanet match being important in its own right. People side bet on tournament matches too?
I mean, okay get mad about scrubby matches on youtube. Thats legitimate, but there is scrubby shit all over youtube, with or without video games. Why does putting a video on youtube automatically even imply you are trying to gain recognition. I mean if you want to name names, just name names. The last batch of mvc2 matches put onto youtube, with big money on the line, again fit the above criteria of many many players having money in the bets. Additionally, it was the first chance for a lot of people to see extended play from players who were two of the biggest names in marvel. What's not interesting about that? People wouldn't want to see scottie pippin's return game?
When has more match videos been a problem? There has been clamor for match videos as long as I've been around. If I had the option to watch plenty of tourneys streamed directly into my pc, Id watch. I might not pay as much attention to some of them, but I'd rather have the option than not.
Again, I don't see how money games have become more of a draw than the main tournament, except POSSIBLY in the one case of your tournament. And in that case, nearly everyone in the room had money in on it. And it was also a WC vs EC thing that had some substance. 2 of the most skilled players in a long set... whats wrong with that? Theres plenty of factors to add up to making that an event.
I mean it really sounds like you're mad at one person. Why don't you just call him an attention seeking scrub and be done with it. Why are you calling out a whole community on false charges? Why does one person all of a sudden equal 99.99%? Can you give examples of what you're talking about? I gotta reiterate its hard to even figure out what you mean, yet, is this a sticky? I dont know. Just name names, or link videos or something. I know you ain't scaryied, nobody gonna feel hurt.

[eks]

the community pays attention to any and all vids, if SRK hyped and released more vids then the focus would happily go back to tournaments imo. would the matches have been as hyped if it wasn't for mike ross' efforts? maybe something can be learned from the way he "marketed" it towards the players

[inkblot]

I respectfully disagree; I think the whole point of playing a videogame (or any game for that matter) is to have fun. If people want to make themselves famous by posting videos, playing money matches, etc, let them do so.

Who are we to judge how a videogame should be played?

That last sentence is pretty funny to me, since it's a routine part of my job description as a tournament director. But that aside...

Of course people are free to do whatever they enjoy. But it's a question of what the community values. The SF community is plenty diverse: we've got combo videos, fan art, exhibition play, and even (gasp) cosplay. But the core of the SF community has always been about hardcore competitive play. This dates back to the very origin of the game, where to continue playing you had to beat guy sitting next to you at the machine. Period.

In fact, this is THE aspect that makes the SF community unique. Evo gets a lot of recognition in the gaming press for being an open worldwide tournament. Anyone who thinks they've got the stuff can step up and take their shot at the title.

When tournament play becomes LESS important to the community than EXHIBITION play (which is what a money match is), then IMO the community has lost touch with its roots and the defining characteristic of SF.

[inkblot]

What are you mad about? Why can't people play money games when there is a money game to be played, yet still be trying to get better and place and win in a tournament?

That would be fantastic. Who does this? Like 10 guys. Maybe 12. And 9 of them are on the east coast.

[Vidness]

My love for Marvel goes really deep. I love competing as much as I love watching interesting matches. My desire to win is insatiable and it doesn't take money to increase it.

That said, it's foolish to ignore the fact that MM's do increase the attention given to a match. I normally wouldn't watch MSS vs. Scrub matches, but when there's $3k on th e line I'll watch.

Now some matches would have held my interest anyway, like sanford vs. duc. Granted, I have a soft spot for Spiral so I'll watch any Spiral matches. Or Strider/Doom, Iron man, Urien, Akuma, and other mid-tier characters...

It's just a fact that $$$ increases the stakes. Would you watch a RPS match if there were $15K on the line, race to 10? I would too. :) I'd also watch a RPS match between Jet Li & Jackie Chan with no money on the line.

Maybe that's why Texas hold-em is so popular these days..

But anyhoo, I'll still be watching Preppy matches, Duc matches, combo videos, etc, money or not.

[power333]

oh please, so jenifer aniston and brad pitt and angelina jolie are worth of being celebrities over volunteer firefighters and teachers? :rolleyes:




Yes. It is much easier to be a fireman than it is to be Michael Jordan. Firemans may have the noble profession, and the pure souls or whatever, but people like Jordan/Jolie/whatever, and if you don't like it stop watching TV and go watch some local fire. Its not your job to tell people what they should and should not like, or which people are "better" than others. Hitler tried the latter, with no success.


On point, DPC is stupid. This is one subject. MMs are another thing.

MMs are great. Duc vs Sanford was the best moment in Evo history so far. Daigo's parry also looks really cool on You Tube, but most people were not even watching it at the time. For Duc vs Sabford, everbody got their popcorn and have half an hour of the coolest Marvel experience so far. The gaming level was not as high as Wong vs whoever, but the crowd involvement made it so cool. Having fun,a s Bunkeis aid, is the best thing about videogames.

Tourneys are #1, of course. But MMs are cool, just like team tourneys are cool to. As long as they don't replace tourneys, its more fun and entertainment to have.


Many times you have a "rival" from the net or whatever, and you won't fight him in a tourney. MMs are a good idea to see who's the best between the two, in the same way we used to fight our brothers to see who's the best in the house. MM winners don't deserve big recognition, but the MMs are cool.



Genious posts from Ski and Bunkei, BTW.



And, not to be a dick, but I can't resist. AFAIK, Inkblot sucks in every game, and nobody is complaining. On contrary, everybody (inlcuding me) worships him for maintaining such a great forum and the amazing Evo.

[power333]

But the core of the SF community has always been about hardcore competitive play. This dates back to the very origin of the game, where to continue playing you had to beat guy sitting next to you at the machine. Period.

In fact, this is THE aspect that makes the SF community unique.

I disagree. You are defining "SF community" as the agsf2 community, or maybe the srk fighting game discussion community. The point of the bigger SF community, and I am defining it as all the guys who used to play SF in local arcades, or who played/play Marvel in local arcades nowadays, is to have fun and beat the next guy.


I really hate that nowadays so many people wants to be the best in the world. So they can't "waste" any time learning anything other than Chun/Ken/Yun or Mag/Storm/Sent because they gotta beat the world. I rather be able to beat my friends, a local rival or whatever, and having fun developing the characters I like. Millions of people have played SF and the versus series like that. Now we have only thousands, and many only care about winning tourneys.

People should be allowed to have fun, and if the roots of the community are saying that we can only having fun by training hardcore to be the best in the world, I'd rather be a part of another community.

If you follow your logic deep enough, you should get rid of the byoc, and all those scrubs plkaying "for fun", outside of the tournament.

I agree that tourneys are the best thing, and that nobody desrves as much respect as Wong, by far, but I believe everybody should have the right to have some fun, and nobody shoul tell each one of us how to live our lives, how to have fun or how to play SF. Its my hobby, not an obligation.

[JAMSMASTERP]

That last sentence is pretty funny to me, since it's a routine part of my job description as a tournament director. But that aside...

Of course people are free to do whatever they enjoy. But it's a question of what the community values. The SF community is plenty diverse: we've got combo videos, fan art, exhibition play, and even (gasp) cosplay. But the core of the SF community has always been about hardcore competitive play. This dates back to the very origin of the game, where to continue playing you had to beat guy sitting next to you at the machine. Period.

In fact, this is THE aspect that makes the SF community unique. Evo gets a lot of recognition in the gaming press for being an open worldwide tournament. Anyone who thinks they've got the stuff can step up and take their shot at the title.

When tournament play becomes LESS important to the community than EXHIBITION play (which is what a money match is), then IMO the community has lost touch with its roots and the defining characteristic of SF.

Evo is the most important thing for fighting games in the U.S. But the rest of the year it seems like people are just trying to keep the games they love the most alive. If people want to have money matches through the year it is fine. People talking shit and money matches keep sf alive until evo comes. SF lost touch with its roots when arcades died. All the competitive sf players actually have comp,close to them. No ammount of training mode or xbl can take the place of real sf. SF is dead imo. Evo is all thats left,it is kinda like a class reunion, or something like comic con. Most people dont go to win they go to have fun,ie money matches.

[Dark Geese]

Thai lighten up I actually said that post with some humor..lol.

**And on a serious note..if I say something is gonna happen its gonna happen!!!

You should know me by now..

[strakka]

Anyone arguing against ink is stupid. He doesn't have beef with MM or exhibition matches. Understand that MM's are still exhibition matches. Putting money on the line is only supposed to be an incentive for people to try. The problem is when people put more emphasis on the pot rather than the skill of the players. It's assumed that the amount of money a person puts up for a money match is representative of their confidence and skill level - the better the players, the bigger the pot. The problem arises when people start to think that the 2 are completely interchangeable - thus, the larger the pot, the better the players. But this argument is logically flawed. If you start with the premises that all good players are confident and those that are confident are more willing to play for large pots in MM's, you can correctly conclude that all good players play for large pots. You can't conclude that all MM's with large pots involve good players.

Ink's beef is with people who are abusing this misconception, and instead of using money matches as an incentive to win and get better, they're using it to make themselves celebs in the fighting game community - make the pot bigger, and people will think that you're better. It's also with the fact that the community is actually bothering to recognize these people as celebs. Winning a money match is exactly the same as winning an exhibition match. In the end, celeb status should ride on how well you do in a tournament, not how much money you're willing to part with.

And fun? Seriously. If you're playing a video game for thousands of dollars, are you still playing fun?

[Juggy]

Uhhhh...... you do realize most top players honestly do have jobs right? MM's are only here to get more hype in the community, and making sure the scene stays alive. I seriously don't understand how hard of a concept this is to understand for most people. MM's have been around since the days of SFII:WW, the only time they have ever gone truly out of hand was with DPC. It isn't like DP invented MM's, these things have been around for years. But with DPs arrival to the scene, everyones attitude about MM's all of a sudden changed.

People don't play MMs for hype. They play it for money, period.

The people watching hype it.

[polarity]

When tournament play becomes LESS important to the community than EXHIBITION play (which is what a money match is), then IMO the community has lost touch with its roots and the defining characteristic of SF.

Or perhaps the tournament directors have lost touch with the community? It seems like you're trying to project your definition of the pure, untainted essence of SF onto everyone else, but evidently a sizable portion of the community rejects it. Just because it's different now than it was in the old days, doesn't mean it's necessarily worse. As I said previously, the solution as I see it is to devise some method of reconciling the two attitudes. How? Well, you're the tournament director. :)

[pherai]

I really hate that nowadays so many people wants to be the best in the world

...

People should be allowed to have fun

Go join another community then, you won't be missed. You say people shouldn't be judged on how they play the game, but preface that by saying more people should play the game with your mindset.

Anyway, I never gave a shit about marvel until all these MM's started popping up. I think there are just a few goons like DP who think they are tough shit for playing a lot of MM's, but once hes played all his money matches hes got scheduled, he'll fizzle out.

[GoLD-ReaVeR]

About celebrities, actually in South Korea many Professional Starcraft Players are brought up in the media as celebrities. With fans numbering in the hundred thousands, not just male fans either at least 50% of fans are female. Type in SlayerS_`Boxer` into youtube or google and you'll get a lot of results. That's just how it is in South Korea though, but they exist so it doesn't completely kill the idea of a video game celebrity.

I don't think money matches could/should get banned. I just don't think it's necessary to be throwing out thousands for a couple of games.
These Starcraft players don't play money matches and these players actually perform in tournaments.

Type in Boxer vs Nal_Rock in the youtube search bar, watch the vid that pops up:P

[dereklearnslow]

When tournament play becomes LESS important to the community than EXHIBITION play (which is what a money match is), then IMO the community has lost touch with its roots and the defining characteristic of SF.

QFMFT!!

Inkblot is my hero.

[Robust]

It's so lonely at the top...

[monkeyspank]

Thats true but i would think the latest batch of MM on you tube were for what 4k or so? When do you ever see that much money put up for MM in SF or any other fighting game? I would be more concentrated on the mm than a tourney if i were doing a mm for that much money. And no we the marvel community have not givin up the hope of winning a tourney its just, how often do the majority of us get to play top players? Only ones that do have to travel or live in the same place as they do. Give us a break for trying to beat someone that we have only seen videos of and not actually played. So the only "top players" that u do get to play are the ones in your town.

The only thing that i hate about the video game scene is that most of the tourneys are console now and days. But so what if people are putting videos up on youtube? Its a way of showing other people how u play, also you can ask a top player if there kind enough to go over a video of yours and tell you what u need work on. But thats just my 2 cents.

[NiGhTmArE®]

another fucking retarded post from nightmare, keep up the good work buddy

Don't worry, I try my best :wink:

And I bet you are one of those guys who loves to play race to 50, money matches and all that retard rules eh? :lol:

I keep my opinion, race to 50, money matches, and all those retard rules are for ppl who are nothing in real life, so they need a motivation to continue living, by playing games and wanting to show everyone they are good (at games). :wonder:

Time had changed... In the past, ppl used to enjoy the games without put money envolved or trying to ridicolize other ppl... Sad.

[sailorsaturn]

...ridicolize... Sad.

yay for u.s. public school system.

[OMG AntiAir Dust]

yay for u.s. public school system.

Hey! Dont ridicolize him.

[NiGhTmArE®]

HUAHAHAHA I dont know english so much ^^'

[strider999]

i agree with inkblot, but i think its interesting to see people who put money where thier mouth is. and high stakes MM's are an evolution of the scene, not just a publicity stunt. hopefully it will get the attention of a variety of people as well.

[Overworld]

Well I don't think it's really all that big a problem, since it's really only something that affects the Marvel community. So having that one community be unique in that it has a lot of good players playing each other for money, in my opinion doesn't hurt the community of competitive gaming all that much, unless the only game you play is Marvel.

If there is a great movement within the Marvel community to shift to this way of playing games, then it is hard to say that this is the incorrect way to go if it's what the players want.

Also there seems to be few solutions in reconciling the "old" and "new" ways of playing Marvel. So I think it's something that people will just have to learn to coexist with, the winnder of EVO will still get a lot of play, now people just must realize that someone with a 6K money match will get a lot of play too. (It also helps a lot of times in this cases that videos of said matches are easier to come by, and come more quickly than EVO tourney vids. Which is also something harder to remedy.)

[AlterGenesis]

Money makes the world go round.

[funkymusic]

Basically... Everyone came for the half-time show and forgot about the super bowl.

[dereklearnslow]

Basically... Everyone came for the half-time show and forgot about the super bowl.

More like everyone came for the bumfight behind the stadium...

[Shodokan123]

Money makes the world go round.

Japan doesn't play for any money or any prizes.

[fishjie]

if everyone had STFUed and played, the clock vs dpc matches never would have happened. it was great to see strider in action

[Juggy]

Japan doesn't play for any money or any prizes.

Because that makes any difference at all.

[AlterGenesis]

Japan doesn't play for any money or any prizes.

So? That doesn't make my statement any less valid.

[ShinAkumax]

-bitter old man

I'm an old man too and let me tell you. You were lame back then and you are lame now. Deal with it.

Don't bother to reply to me. I'm not coming back to this lame thread.

[Bacardi]

Japan doesn't play for any money or any prizes.

so when they go to evo trying to mm fools for free money left and right what is that?

[GoLD-ReaVeR]

Japanese taking donations from fools? Maybe?

[NKI]

the community pays attention to any and all vids, if SRK hyped and released more vids then the focus would happily go back to tournaments imo. would the matches have been as hyped if it wasn't for mike ross' efforts? maybe something can be learned from the way he "marketed" it towards the playerseks has a very good point. The Evo trailers always get people hype, but that's only one video per year. Compare this with Mike Ross and others who are pumping out hyped vids all year round...it's not really a surprise where all the attention is going.

So I say recruit Mike Ross as the official Evo Hype Machine. :tup:

[Rairu]

I'm pretty sure Valle never lost an A2 tournament. If he did, he lost early and then went on a huge streak of owning everyone. But yeah, Marvel is pretty stratified.

That's not what really causes the whole rash of trash at Marvel though. The thing about Marvel is, there are more top players at Marvel than there are for any other game right now. Since it's such an old game, probably more than any other game we've ever played. There are probably at least 50 people out there who are legitimately really good at Marvel. And probably 100-200 more just below that who are almost that good but still really skilled. It sucks being in this group because I mean...you're hella good but you're still never gonna win shit just because you're beneath all these other great players...and even they're behind Sanford/Wong/etc. Compare that to CvS2 or 3s where there's like...less than 1/3 as many people who are legitimately scary.

With all these good players who don't get enough recognition through the traditional tournament scene, it's going to cause a lot of friction and stuff that is most easily solved through money matches or extracurricular activities. It just happens, it's one of those things about Marvel that I think you just have to kind of accept.

Oh yeah, and a lot of you fuckers are attention whores. Don't forget that part.

--Jay Snyder
Viscant@aol.com


This is the best post in the thread. Everyone should read it again.


Also, Inkblot is pretty good at fighting games.

[Deus]

eks has a very good point. The Evo trailers always get people hype, but that's only one video per year. Compare this with Mike Ross and others who are pumping out hyped vids all year round...it's not really a surprise where all the attention is going.

So I say recruit Mike Ross as the official Evo Hype Machine. :tup:

this is evolution, not some small time money match

[Robust]

team 3

edit: mike ross is the best thing to happen to marvel since mas systems started selling sticks...

[Xenozip.]

I think the point that some of you missed was that these players aren't aiming for #1 anymore. They are aiming just for targeting some one who they think they can beat, putting money down, and hyping it up.

So what if you win or not? Sure it's entertaining, but so what?

It's fun to hype up drama and play a MM to "settle" things, but you're just playing one dude. You're not playing against a whole tournament roster, you're not trying to be #1, you're just trying to beat one dude.

Though like Viscant said, it's a natural byproduct of being just below the top. Players feel stuck, so they want to validate their skill by challenging top players. But that doesn't validate your skill, tournaments do.

[SpinalBlood]

Marvel games are shit

[Corner-Trap]

Marvel games are shit

You mean in a good way right?

[metrock1]

I dont think the players intended for there to be hype, they had legitamate gripes with other players and there was a camera around to document the hype. I believe the HYPE started with the work of the DIRECTOR. Given there were other
methods to get your point across about a grudge via phone or pm etc, a person with a gripe will more than likely spill it to anyone whos willing to listen at the time specially a person with a camera. Theres been plenty of times ive been pissed at other players and spurtted out random shit talking cuz I was frustrated about them at that moment to anyone who was around.

As some one said earlier evo gets hyped with one video per year, and if were lucky we may get a dvd a year later. Yes evo is the place to go to test your skills against world class competitors but to me is starting lose its appeal as THE PLACE. It seems to me as a lot of other people also evo has lost this appeal and hyped exhibition play has took its place in the marvel community. I remember when APEX was around I would love to open SRK homepage to check out the latest stats of the most recent tournys. To me that was a highlight of SRK. Now I just come for the smack talking of the week thread and sit back and enjoy.
Most of the sweet footage that evo has isnt released in a timely manner so all we have to go on is combo vids, MM vids, and small tourny vids that get capped and hosted somewhere. Theres not too much to look forward to evo besides the actual tourny and whatever hype is brought to it.

As Vidness said he loves marvel as do I. I need no money to play as incentive just plain ol competition will work for me.This is all I need. The money doesnt draw me to these recent types of hyped exhibition matches, its the trash talking around it. Yes the large pots do sweeten it but mainly for me I wanna see if they can back there word or bite it big. Also these types of matches are going towards the boxing style of hype wich is a good thing. I love the hype these fights get.
As a well known player said on the radio show certain people are trying to get recognition thru the back door. I agree with it to a degree. It seems like the marvel community is changing into a different beast than the core SF community. Traditionaly tournament style is the way to go in the core. With marvel you will get recognition taking down top players in money matches. What this will not do is make you THE CHAMPION as to taking down all the other top players in a tournament. We do realize this.

To me its like comparing the sport of golf to the sport of boxing in a way, the core and the marvel community. Ok Ill take my foot outta my mouth now and accept any neg rep.

I want it, I want it willingly.

[Nagata Lock II]

I think the real reason behind the original post was that EVO's Marvel tournament is starting to take a backseat to mid - upper mid tier players who throw around money rather than win the tournament. Personally, I think it comes down to the fact that the Marvel scene has grown complacent with Justin Wong being the #1 man in the scene and thus would rather focus their attention on "getting famous" somewhere else.

The top of the Marvel food chain are all monsters that like their respective names talked about all over the scene, but we all want to make that phat loot when it's all said and done. If you can get recognition for your play while making hundreds or possibly thousands of dollars then who is anyone to tell the masses of Marvel players otherwise? Was the EVO staff not responsible for pimping out the idea of bigger and better cash prizes when they got sponsorship last year?

It's not lost on the EVO staff or the OG heads who think "win tournies before winning money" that money is what turns the gears in the North American SF community. Hell, the OG heads used to create tons of controversey splitting pots and manipulating their tournaments. Where was the recognition and pride there? It took a backseat to the almighty dollar.

In the end, the recent rash of money matches are just another form of marketing for the SF scene. The Marvel scene thrives on this kind of behaviour and if the by product is more players coming in due to the hype surrounding said shit talk, the all the power to those who do not "STFU and play." Lord knows the scene isn't going to lose any more players as a result of the hype, so just enjoy the entertainment value of it and move along. The players will still enter the grand daddy tournament, the heavy hitters will make top 3 and the rest will win or lose a lot of money betting on it. Life's good that way.

[DarkMage724]

Yeah...

Marvel is really old but look at how many Marvel Evo Champs we have? 2...

All this is, is the marvel community telling Justin "We give up". =)

[ninja sentinel]

If I were in Inkblot shoes, I would be upset about the fact that I worked so hard to get sponsors, yet not too many people care about my tourneys.

[polarity]

If I were in Inkblot shoes, I would be upset about the fact that I worked so hard to get sponsors, yet not too many people care about my tourneys.

Well it seemed kind of evident to me that the motivation behind the original post is irritation at people saying they have no reason to go to Evo if DPC isn't gonna be there. Problem is it's Evo's job to draw people in by providing an entertaining experience, it's not the individual's job to change what they're entertained by.

[Pinnochio]

I like this thread. Its good to hear the old timers speak whats on their mind.

[power333]

I keep my opinion, race to 50, money matches, and all those retard rules are for ppl who are nothing in real life, so they need a motivation to continue living, by playing games and wanting to show everyone they are good (at games). :wonder:



Come on now, man. You made a log into srk, posting often. You used to post yet on another forum from what you just said in another thread. And a couple weeks ago you said that you play 3 or 4 hours a day as an argument. So you play a lot, and you care a lot. You're just making one of those "I suck because..." speeches. Get real!

[Nagata Lock II]

Problem is it's Evo's job to draw people in by providing an entertaining experience, it's not the individual's job to change what they're entertained by.
That makes absolutely no sense. It's always the individual's job to change what they're entertained by. That's the perk of being the paying customer. You decide what you want out of the experience. If people all congregated at EVO for the sole purpose of seeing DPC vs "fill in blank" that's their right and their choice. No person, whether organizer or other player can dictate to the players what they must be entertained by.

[Havoc]

^^^
That's what he's saying :confused:

Still.... it's also the Cannon's job to make sure that the event remains safe, and while I don't think anyone really believes that DPC is gonna do anything... there will be goons. Something would have happened. Even if it was just a little scuffle. Anything that risks sponsorship compromises EVO for years to come. We've been moving on to bigger and better things for years; why stop now over some dumb shit?

And I agree.... making YouTube videos (no matter how hilarious they may be) talking shit at a game that you've already resigned yourself to be no better than second best at (if that) is lame. That shit is so WWF. DPC's going after the Intercontinental belt. Nobody cares about that shit.

Viscant made the best post in the thread. Basically, it's the bruised egos of a bunch of really good players that have come to the realization (why it took so long, I'll never understand) that they'll never beat Justin. In effect, the tournament really doesn't matter. Everyone knows who's gonna win. It's a 2-3 man tournament, and even that's being pretty generous.

Money matches are cool, but they shouldn't trump the main event. If these players aren't good enough to win the main event, why does it even matter? That's like if the Knicks decided to play the Suns/Jazz/Blazers or something for money back in Jordan's day. It goes against the spirit of competition. Who care's who's better out of people who aren't the best?

[Nagata Lock II]

That's what he's saying :confused:
My bad... misinterpreted his post.
And I agree.... making YouTube videos (no matter how hilarious they may be) talking shit at a game that you've already resigned yourself to be no better than second best at (if that) is lame. That shit is so WWF. DPC's going after the Intercontinental belt. Nobody cares about that shit.
I couldn't disagree more with this statement. Why should the SF community restrict their means of marketing an event. DPC's intentions were obviously selfish but the community was drawn more towards the event as a result of his actions. We all know that he's not winning the main tournament, but there are only a handful of people who have a viable shot at winning the main tournament anyway. The rest of the players need some kind of motivation other than "well I almost broke through my ridiciulous qualifier pool" and if DPC's videos are that incentive then more power to him. Restricting marketing efforts for the sake of some greater good shows poor vision.
Viscant made the best post in the thread. Basically, it's the bruised egos of a bunch of really good players that have come to the realization (why it took so long, I'll never understand) that they'll never beat Justin. In effect, the tournament really doesn't matter. Everyone knows who's gonna win. It's a 2-3 man tournament, and even that's being pretty generous.
So if everyone acknowledges that they can't win it, should EVO Marvel come down to maybe eight elected players in a Round Robin for the title? Maybe 2 players from each side of the United States? I don't see why anyone would ever want to belittle the sea of Marvel players that fill tournaments. Players know they have a slim to nil chance of winning it, it doesn't have to be shoved in their face though. Most of us work hard for our money and don't need to be further convinced that it's being thrown away to line someone else's pocket.

[NiGhTmArE®]

Come on now, man. You made a log into srk, posting often. You used to post yet on another forum from what you just said in another thread. And a couple weeks ago you said that you play 3 or 4 hours a day as an argument. So you play a lot, and you care a lot. You're just making one of those "I suck because..." speeches. Get real!

I used to play a lot when I had a job in an arcade+lan house here.
I don't play a lot anymore (I got fired after 2 years and so).
I don't even play KOF 2k2 a lot anymore (playing GG lately).

BUT....

If I played a lot, what the fuck I have to prove? I have to challenge anyone to stupid race to 50 games to prove anything? I have to put money envolved to prove that I care about the game? I don't need this kind of shit. A balanced race to 50 in kof 2k2 takes more than 4 hours, all you can prove doing that is that you are the best "never get tired or bored" man in the world.

I like to play to anyone. I like to see other ppl gameplay. I don't play to prove anyone that I'm good or something. Although if you are good, ppl will gave you the deserved respect, you don't need to keep trying to promote yourself :wgrin:.

EDIT: Sorry my grammar, seems ppl here love to critique strange ppl grammar but they dont look at theirs.

[Havoc]

I couldn't disagree more with this statement. Why should the SF community restrict their means of marketing an event. DPC's intentions were obviously selfish but the community was drawn more towards the event as a result of his actions. We all know that he's not winning the main tournament, but there are only a handful of people who have a viable shot at winning the main tournament anyway. The rest of the players need some kind of motivation other than "well I almost broke through my ridiciulous qualifier pool" and if DPC's videos are that incentive then more power to him. Restricting marketing efforts for the sake of some greater good shows poor vision.

I have no problem with money matches at all. I love them. I just see where ink is coming from. It's indicative of a change in attitude that I've noticed since the switch to console. People don't really play to win like they did in the past. Ink's right. Before, you had to win to stay on. It's not the same anymore, and now people are striving to be second best. I really don't see the point in playing if you don't want to beat everybody. Sure, you have to know where you stand, and so you may not realistically think you can beat everybody, but it should always be your goal. It seems like that's not the case with a lot of players now. DPC is prime example. In his original video, the part that made me laugh the most (well, outside of when the "Sam" caption came up, and Mike Chaos's crotch chops...) was when the guy asked him if he thought he could beat everybody on the proposed WC MvC2 team, and he's like "Nah, it's not even like that...", then he talks some dumb shit about chopping down the weak points or some dumb shit.

That's where I can see people having a problem with it. He's not saying he's the best. He's not even shooting to be the best. He's just trying to create hype by playing matches that he thinks he can win, against players that don't represent the cream of the crop. That's lame.

So if everyone acknowledges that they can't win it, should EVO Marvel come down to maybe eight elected players in a Round Robin for the title? Maybe 2 players from each side of the United States? I don't see why anyone would ever want to belittle the sea of Marvel players that fill tournaments. Players know they have a slim to nil chance of winning it, it doesn't have to be shoved in their face though. Most of us work hard for our money and don't need to be further convinced that it's being thrown away to line someone else's pocket.

If that's the last of the player base that really thinks they can win... maybe. This isn't about shrinking the tournament, so much as rebuilding the competitive spirit though. As long as there are these side shows with artificial hype, wherein people can get their little rocks off, and get the e-nut that they need, that overrides the tournament (the stage where you prove that you're the BEST), then the competitive community suffers, IMO.

Nobody's against money matches. I just don't see how they've become the new proving ground, especially when nobody calls out the very best players unless there's some ridiculous stipulation.

[SaBrE]

maybe this wouldnt be as much of a problem if drama happened with justin, cuz atleast then, they are challenging the best.

i see both sides of the argument. but i side with inkblot. i agree. i love money matches and the hype like anyone else. but it seems thats where they have to get moeny and respect cuz they cant get it at a tourney cuz they never win. and i also do agree with what fmj said(i think it was fmj that said it), about everyone being content wit hthe fact that justin is #1 and is accepted. but its also giving up and quitting. i dont like that. i think thats the mentality. justin lost at 2k5, showed he is somewhat human afterall. if i was a top player at marvel, i would always chase that man for #1.

as long as the tourney numbers grow, thats what i care about!

[Robust]

lol @ non-marvel players telling marvel players how they feel about justin wong.

Please.

[SaBrE]

well then tell us how it is =)

[Bunkei]

I'll be interviewing Tom Cannon [inkblot] @ 3 pm, and this will be one of the topics we'll discuss.

[Robust]

Would anyone even listen? Seems like everyone is pretty set on saying marvel players feel justin is going to win evo. OH wait, none of those players even PLAY marvel. lol. I understand its an observation, but is there any clear proof where people are giving up because justin is "supposed" to win? Or that people are content with second place? Since when does that matter!?! We can just assume a bunch of things and play it off as fact. Yeah, lets do that!

[merdoc]

I play to win if that counts for anything, starting to go to tourny's so far i been to 3, practice with my friends, watch videos and practice at home. Playing the best players and sadly getting my ass kick at times drives me more to practice, see what i do wrong, and try to adjust. Also, Listlening..its a key part..i listen to people about my mistakes and improve...when i don't listen it doesnt work. Number 1 is what i think, number 1 should be the goal for everyone, at least for me it is..no matter how hard is the challange, just push yourself...just giving my two cents on it.

[SpinalBlood]

You mean in a good way right?


Nope, I really intended they are total garbage

[Master Chibi]

I talked to Justin over the weekend and he had a few things to say about Evo World.

One line he did say that I picked up on was:

"If I make it to finals"

the rest of the sentence is a surprise, as I'm holding him to his word come Evo World.

Haha :3

[skisonic]

Would anyone even listen? Seems like everyone is pretty set on saying marvel players feel justin is going to win evo. OH wait, none of those players even PLAY marvel. lol. I understand its an observation, but is there any clear proof where people are giving up because justin is "supposed" to win? Or that people are content with second place? Since when does that matter!?! We can just assume a bunch of things and play it off as fact. Yeah, lets do that!

Peep the show, i think it was a good discussion, you know i gotcha back.
10 HOURS A DAY.

[HoneyBBQGrundle]

When tournament play becomes LESS important to the community than EXHIBITION play (which is what a money match is), then IMO the community has lost touch with its roots and the defining characteristic of SF.

A money match is just a 2 person tournament.

[Robust]

Peep the show, i think it was a good discussion, you know i gotcha back.
10 HOURS A DAY.
what show?

i dunno if i can listen to more than like 30 minutes if dsp is on.

[Jr7891]

Word.

[margalis]

Viscant is right. It's the same reason people play games like XSF - you can be one of the best XSF players but not crack the top 100 of MVC2.

Seth had some old editorial about this sort of thing - players who only play with low tiers, players that play oddball games, players that play without combos or throws or whatever - they can't be the best at the standard game but they can be the best (or close to it) at their particular sub-game, mostly due to lack of competition.

It's like being the best T. Hawk player in NA. Who cares? You are the best because 3 people play T. Hawk, and if good players played T. Hawk you wouldn't be the best any more.

Only a few players can be top players - the rest can either try to become top players, simply admit that they are never going to make it, or they can help out their egos by playing sub-games that they can be good at while ignoring the larger game.

A money match is just a tourney that bans better players. The whole point of a MM is the only people you are up against is people you think are worse than you. Impressive.

[DS]

I remember it being either Ink or Seth that was talking about something similar to this. But, it was more along the lines of players cracking the top 10 and being satisfied with that, rather than being number 1. It was a really interesting article at the time and it still applies till this day. Nothing wrong with wanting to be up there with the greats in that top 10, but being number 1 is where it's at. It's like the fire is no longer there for ANY of the new players.

Money matches are cool and all, but what about the real competition? Doesn't anybody get any sort of satisfaction knowing that they went through a shitload of players to claim that number 1 spot? And money matches can be really boring when it's no-name players going at it. I've seen local money matches with players that are good, but in no way are they household names in the community. It's like, "Ok, you just won $10 bucks. Good for you. Now go win a tourney."

Shit, I've been entering tournies nowadays at one of our local spots and have been placing somewhat well. Nowhere near where I want to be(which is number 1), but it's fun and I love it. This is almost along the lines of horse-racing. It's you against everyone and number 1 is where you shine.

Almost reminds me of when MvC1 came out and I was striving to get good at the game. A few weeks later I got really good and started dominating the scene in my area. It was great. Some of them were not-so-great players, but even they admitted to me being one of the better players in the area. I introduced high-level play to most of the people in my area. Everyone was hungry and striving to be good at their respective games. And no money was involved. Shit, I wish I would have knew how to run a tourney back then. It was great striving to be number 1. Knowing that you can dominate. Knowing that everyone was hungry. And no money matches were involved. It was just about respect.

Winning a money match gets you no respect in the community because you're only playing your matches against selected players. You're not entering a tourney and go through a gauntlet of good players from all over the world.

All I can really say is: Get hyped. Stay hungry. Aim for the top and play to win.

[HoneyBBQGrundle]

Nothing wrong with wanting to be up there with the greats in that top 10, but being number 1 is where it's at. It's like the fire is no longer there for ANY of the new players.

If you play just about anything other than mvc2 and you truly want to be #1, then you will move to Japan permanently. Otherwise, the fire just isn't there.

I think it's more about what you said later- you weren't number 1 and you were still happy that you had fun with your friends and started improving and winning. This is fun, but not everyone cares about being number 1 in the world in a video game. Of course, life gets in the way as well, or everyone would just move to Japan to play.

I still don't see what the big deal is. There have always been the top tourney players and the rest who play causally or even seriously but just aren't good enough to win majors. Who cares if they play for money? Lastly, I think the people complaining need to take a step back and realize that nobody is getting "famous" after posting a youtube video about marvel. That's a massive exaggeration (and I think you knew since you put in the bitter old man disclaimer lol)

[AlterGenesis]

Sure, we'd all like to be number one, but often times we can't. A more simpler analogy would be to you athletes out there. Sure, we'd all like to be professionals, but only a select few have an innate talent to become pro. So, you still want to play your sport, obviously, you play in a house/mens league and such, with caliber that is no comparison to the pros. Can you still blame a person for not wanting to be MJ? (Him being the #1 Greatest Player of All-Time).

Playing in a lower league is like playing on a smaller scale. Yes, I can never win EVO/SBO, but playing smaller tournaments in Canada/US/Japan and MMing people there doesn't really hurt. I still want to play the game I like to play in a way that appeals to me. Striving to be number one is all well and good, but sometimes, you have to be realistic.

[margalis]

Scrub tournies are actually not a bad idea. At least that would be a true best-of-the-rest.

[JubeiNinja69]

Sure, we'd all like to be number one, but often times we can't. A more simpler analogy would be to you athletes out there. Sure, we'd all like to be professionals, but only a select few have an innate talent to become pro. So, you still want to play your sport, obviously, you play in a house/mens league and such, with caliber that is no comparison to the pros. Can you still blame a person for not wanting to be MJ? (Him being the #1 Greatest Player of All-Time).

Playing in a lower league is like playing on a smaller scale. Yes, I can never win EVO/SBO, but playing smaller tournaments in Canada/US/Japan and MMing people there doesn't really hurt. I still want to play the game I like to play in a way that appeals to me. Striving to be number one is all well and good, but sometimes, you have to be realistic.


you fucking can't be #1 then try to be #1. that's all. its not if you can't be #1 then you give up and accept. that's the scrub way of thinking. that won't get you anywhere.

[ramza]

Sure, we'd all like to be number one, but often times we can't. A more simpler analogy would be to you athletes out there. Sure, we'd all like to be professionals, but only a select few have an innate talent to become pro. So, you still want to play your sport, obviously, you play in a house/mens league and such, with caliber that is no comparison to the pros. Can you still blame a person for not wanting to be MJ? (Him being the #1 Greatest Player of All-Time).

Playing in a lower league is like playing on a smaller scale. Yes, I can never win EVO/SBO, but playing smaller tournaments in Canada/US/Japan and MMing people there doesn't really hurt. I still want to play the game I like to play in a way that appeals to me. Striving to be number one is all well and good, but sometimes, you have to be realistic.

this analogy doesn't work at all. SF is completely different, there is no barrier that prevents anyone from becoming a great player. you don't need great genetics, or be ambidextrous. all it takes is the desire. if you really want to be the best, then you'll do what it takes to get there, its as simple as that.

[Havoc]

Word.

And for real... if SF were basketball, most people here, and certainly the players that money match, are in rhe "NBA" of our respective games.

You can have that YMCA mentality if you want.

[Rairu]

Striving to be number one is all well and good, but sometimes, you have to be realistic.

I agree. Winning in competitive fighting games takes talent.

[AlterGenesis]

this analogy doesn't work at all. SF is completely different, there is no barrier that prevents anyone from becoming a great player. you don't need great genetics, or be ambidextrous. all it takes is the desire. if you really want to be the best, then you'll do what it takes to get there, its as simple as that.

Yes, I have the desire to beat Kaqn in GGXX:AC. (In all seriousness, I really do want to be the best at GG.) So, I guess when I fly out to Japan, my desire will wipe the floor with him. =D I think you've completely missed my point. Having desire doesn't equate skill.

[Humbag]

Umm good luck then? ^^

[AlterGenesis]

I think the misconception here is that if you play smaller scale tournaments = not playing to be number one. Which is not true. If all of us could be number one in the entire world...not possible. Some people are just BETTER than others. A lot of players have desire, they practice hard, they go to tournaments all over the globe, but does that mean they will beat KO? Justin? Dio? Kaqn? RX? I can go on. I want to beat those guys, I want win EVO. I put a lot of time in. Does that mean I will win? Not necessarily.

[ramza]

Yes, I have the desire to beat Kaqn in GGXX:AC. (In all seriousness, I really do want to be the best at GG.) So, I guess when I fly out to Japan, my desire will wipe the floor with him. =D I think you've completely missed my point. Having desire doesn't equate skill.

this analogy doesn't work at all. SF is completely different, there is no barrier that prevents anyone from becoming a great player. you don't need great genetics, or be ambidextrous. all it takes is the desire. if you really want to be the best, then you'll do what it takes to get there, its as simple as that.

actually read what i wrote next time, son. obviously you don't want it enough. step your game up.

[AlterGenesis]

Well, I guess I will be the champion at EVO in a few years. Thanks for the confidence boost. I'll give you a shoutout when I'm on top of the world.

[Havoc]

^^
He beat Justin (no Smithers)

[JubeiNinja69]

Well, I guess I will be the champion at EVO in a few years. Thanks for the confidence boost. I'll give you a shoutout when I'm on top of the world.

sarcasm? if you believe you can be the best then go for it.

[AlterGenesis]

What are you talking about? I'm serious. Didn't you read what Ramza said? If I want it enough, I'll get it. You better believe I want it, so you better believe I'm going to win it all. Stepping up the game, son.

[ramza]

What are you talking about? I'm serious. Didn't you read what Ramza said? If I want it enough, I'll get it. You better believe I want it, so you better believe I'm going to win it all. Stepping up the game, son.

you are sad:rolleyes:

[FMJaguar]

Some people are reading way too much into this, remember that evo paid down to the top 8 last year, also more people are trying to run more local area tournies like web2zone, and some are trying more elaborate events like showdown. There is definately a drive to create more winners, and spreading the money and recognition beyond just that one best player.

The difference is that if someone uses a tournament to do this, anyone can play, it's mostly fair, and it doesn't require having an outrageous internet image.

[Robust]

I think the critics are being extremely selfish about the marvel community. Excuse me, but what other games do we have where US is the best? Tekken? Maybe. Moreover, what game can you say that you have the top 10, and the arguable top 4 in the same city? Justin Wong is the best. However, how does that translate into everyone else accepting this and aiming for second? How do you know the motivations of the marvel community, when you(no one in particular), yourself do not even play marvel? Should I make the same assumptions about the players of other games? Do you guys all just suck and can't beat japan? Nah. You guys are great, I believe it's a streak of luck that they've been able to win each year. The same could be attributed to justin winning all those years. Each year he still has to face the best in the world and they, for the most part, do give him a run for his money. Has everyone forgotten that? An observation I've had, is that marvel players have the most swag of any other community. By far. Its hard for me to believe that most players(especially at the top) would be satisfied with anything but being the best. Also, I love how people talk about marvel players lacking the fire, desire, passion, etc., this statement only shows your ignorance when it comes to the marvel community. If you seriously knew how marvel players get down, you probably wouldn't make such outrageous claims.

-Do your job-

[epsilon_]

Ok now Eric and Hav I'm going to have to disagree with the whole
"sf isnt basketball, anyone can be great" mindset, because it is completely and utterly wrong.

There are skills that are important to SF that some people will have a natural advantage at doing. Spacing/Reactions/Instinct These three things separate the good players from the Ricky Ortiz's Jwongs' and Valles. There are most definitely certain inherent traits that certain people are blessed with and others aren't. Desire and heart will get you far, but it won't take you to the finish line.

[AlterGenesis]

Ok now Eric and Hav I'm going to have to disagree with the whole
"sf isnt basketball, anyone can be great" mindset, because it is completely and utterly wrong.

There are skills that are important to SF that some people will have a natural advantage at doing. Spacing/Reactions/Instinct These three things separate the good players from the Ricky Ortiz's Jwongs' and Valles. There are most definitely certain inherent traits that certain people are blessed with and others aren't. Desire and heart will get you far, but it won't take you to the finish line.

Thanks. I guess the way I was saying it wasn't clear enough. Therefore, this post gets a QFT.

[DaDesiCanadian]

Ok now Eric and Hav I'm going to have to disagree with the whole
"sf isnt basketball, anyone can be great" mindset, because it is completely and utterly wrong.

There are skills that are important to SF that some people will have a natural advantage at doing. Spacing/Reactions/Instinct These three things separate the good players from the Ricky Ortiz's Jwongs' and Valles. There are most definitely certain inherent traits that certain people are blessed with and others aren't. Desire and heart will get you far, but it won't take you to the finish line.

Thanks for stopping the stupidity. Just because you want to be best at SF doesn't mean you're gonna be. People can practice hours a day, every day, and still be mid tier. Then there's people who don't practice at all, and still place high in tourneys. There's clearly a genetic difference in skill, which sometimes cannot be overcome no matter how hard you practice, or WANT it.

About Inkblots post; I disagreed with him at first, until I read Strakka's post, which really put it into perspective. MM's in the end don't really mean much, other than the fact that they're entertaining. In the end, it's all about who's winning the tournaments, or placing high consistently. Yeah, mostly a rehash, but just my thoughts.

[gouki10]

[QUOTE=Robust;3892822]SnipQUOTE]

Seriously, Marvel will Make you lose your mind when you hit that point of "I WILL be the best."

I believe that sometimes blinds us to the truth of why we lose sometimes, but atleast we SHOW we have Passion, and Desire instead of speaking it. Marvel is a game that has made alot of people Walk the Walk, Instead of just Talking the Talk. Yet there is still alot of players out there that haven't jumped to that level yet because they are blind to some Extent on how to really think when they play the game.

At the end of it, these are just games, and if you aren't having fun, then don't play.

alot of the times, in Marvel people will not be having fun cause they lose, but they don't realize why so they keep repeating a cycle where they keep playing with Passion, but without brains, and more often then not, will take a longer time then not to get better by little leaps, then if they were thinking clearly. When someone is thinking like this you will hear the Trash Talk, and thus a topic like this happens. It's not really Saying ST*U and Play that needs to be said, but ST*U, and THINK.

[margalis]

A money match is a contest between exactly two people who both agreed to the match because they think they are the better player to begin with.

Seeing who is the best out of two people really is not very exciting, especially when neither of those people is particularly good.

[FMJaguar]

Also, I love how people talk about the fire, desire, passion, etc., this statement only shows your ignorance when it comes to the marvel community. If you seriously knew how marvel players get down, you probably wouldn't make such outrageous claims.

and maybe the Mortal Kombat Armageddon players are the most skilled tacticians ever to play any video game, but people can only go by the information the community actually puts out and promotes. If the real story about "how marvel players get down" isn't getting out, then get the right story out there.

There are skills that are important to SF that some people will have a natural advantage at doing. Spacing/Reactions/Instinct These three things separate the good players from the Ricky Ortiz's Jwongs' and Valles. There are most definitely certain inherent traits that certain people are blessed with and others aren't. Desire and heart will get you far, but it won't take you to the finish line.

One small factor might be that all three of those people chose to dedicate themselves to getting better, improving their own game, and playing lots of different people in almost every place that fighting games are played in the US, Japan, and I think justin went to mexico once...

I guess it could be a magical gift from God too, but why not look at the obvious?

It also seems that everyone that does the same happens to have similar success: Sanford and Yipes have both eliminated justin from a marvel tournament, Buktooth does well in CvS2, Pyrolee and others in 3s. If they all were to continue playing and expanding their game (not to say they aren't now), I don't see why they would be any different.

[Dasrik]

Scrub tournies are actually not a bad idea. At least that would be a true best-of-the-rest.
...

...

...

WOW.

[ramza]

One small factor might be that all three of those people chose to dedicate themselves to getting better, improving their own game, and playing lots of different people in almost every place that fighting games are played in the US, Japan, and I think justin went to mexico once...


i dunno, i would call that "desire" but i'm just a crazy idealist:wonder:

[Josh-TheFunkDOC]

I can't believe you guys are overlooking the obvious here.

The event with the most money involved becomes the biggest, no matter how silly. World Series of Poker main event - total luckfest, but it gets all the hype.

That's how it is everywhere, so I don't see the point in bashing it. If you want tournaments to be the main draw, then PUT MORE MONEY INTO THE TOURNAMENTS. End of story.

[Robust]

and maybe the Mortal Kombat Armageddon players are the most skilled tacticians ever to play any video game, but people can only go by the information the community actually puts out and promotes. If the real story about "how marvel players get down" isn't getting out, then get the right story out there.



When I get an answer from those who can defend their ridiculous claims, I'll give you yours. I don't even know if its worth trying to defend the marvel community, especially on srk. Too many random people posting irrelevant things.

<3

[GoLD-ReaVeR]

Ok now Eric and Hav I'm going to have to disagree with the whole
"sf isnt basketball, anyone can be great" mindset, because it is completely and utterly wrong.

There are skills that are important to SF that some people will have a natural advantage at doing. Spacing/Reactions/Instinct These three things separate the good players from the Ricky Ortiz's Jwongs' and Valles. There are most definitely certain inherent traits that certain people are blessed with and others aren't. Desire and heart will get you far, but it won't take you to the finish line.

I completely and utterly disagree with you on this one. I'm actually too lazy to give you a definition on instinct, but for reference, there was this starcraft player on TV nicknamed XellOs, tests showed he was playing the game purely on instinct, in the starcraft progaming there's like 100 people like him. If you do something often enough it will become part of your instinct, this goes for anything you do, even typing behind your PC. What I would agree on is that players have a better instinctive offset when they start with a game, so more of the game is already in the back of their heads. This however does not change the fact that anyone can get to the same point.

Reaction is something you can train, playing faster games for example helps. Try CPMA for a few years^^

I'm however unsure what you would mean with spacing.

What in my opinion sets Alex Valle, Ricky Ortiz, Justin Wong and others apart from a lot of people in here is the experience they have with fighting games. They've probably had more hours into Street Fighter then any of us here. It doesn't mean that this places them out of reach for the rest of the community though. If done right a player that has barely started on the game can catch up all the way to top level in a very small amount of time, it's that getting ahead part which is hard. The players mentioned however have managed to stay ahead in their own way.

Bottom line is that anyone can get there if he tries hard enough and goes about it in a clever manner.

[goodm0urning]

So, theoretically, say we have two people who are learning Street Fighter, and are taking pains to equalize all the imaginable variables--they spend the same amount of time with each game, have access to the same exact amount of competition, learn the same exact set of skills, and so forth.

The argument that some players have natural-born advantages over others would predict that one of these guys, all other things being equal, will still be able to come out on top in the end. Your argument would predict that they would reach a stalemate. Which do you think would happen?

[gouki10]

Too many random people posting irrelevant things on srk



Truth

[GoLD-ReaVeR]

So, theoretically, say we have two people who are learning Street Fighter, and are taking pains to equalize all the imaginable variables--they spend the same amount of time with each game, have access to the same exact amount of competition, learn the same exact set of skills, and so forth.

The argument that some players have natural-born advantages over others would predict that one of these guys, all other things being equal, will still be able to come out on top in the end. Your argument would predict that they would reach a stalemate. Which do you think would happen?
In the end it still depends on the player, his own way on going about how he will learn from the games he plays, his own way of thinking new things will define how good he will become at the game. These parameters can be modified by the player himself at any given time if he actually wants to. So sure, some people can learn better or more then others, but saying no one else can get there is just rubbish.

[pherai]

The argument that some players have natural-born advantages over others would predict that one of these guys, all other things being equal, will still be able to come out on top in the end. Your argument would predict that they would reach a stalemate. Which do you think would happen?

No, he said anyone can get good, but made no mention that everyone will have an equally difficult time getting good.

[Josh-TheFunkDOC]

Even in something like poker (yes, I know, sorry), you'll see two people who play it for a living, both working equally hard, and one becomes noticeably better than the other. Certain personality traits are better suited to certain games than others, I think.

I am certain that with enough hard work, you can become well above average, maybe even among the best. But to be Justin level, you need some sort of natural ability - reaction time being probably the most important IMO, as it helps in defense and footsie games.

I really want to be wrong about this, but this is what the evidence seems to indicate.

[Shizuma_15]

isnt it just a mind game sure you need practice but its all in the head cause once you get those gears going on in your brain you start to get better.

Thats what i noticed with me i started analyzing everything case in point "scrubs" they dont know what the hell they are doing but a couple of guys actually got better cause they started to think more.

well from my experience

[Havoc]

There are definitely traits that some have, and others don't when it comes to SF. Reaction being one, but critical thinking being the main one, IMO. Some people just think better than others.

Still, these shortcmings can be overcome. Having a defeatist attitude doesn't help.

[Sabin]

Thanks for stopping the stupidity. Just because you want to be best at SF doesn't mean you're gonna be. People can practice hours a day, every day, and still be mid tier. Then there's people who don't practice at all, and still place high in tourneys. There's clearly a genetic difference in skill, which sometimes cannot be overcome no matter how hard you practice, or WANT it.


dude, you can't be serious...this is probably the most ridiculous statement ive ever heard on srk. I think you're just saying this to bait someone into getting all upset and getting a response and saying lol u noob. :rofl:

[Dasrik]

I think the fact that the thread has gone on this long shows that people completely missed the point of what inkblot was trying to say.

[power333]

dude, you can't be serious...this is probably the most ridiculous statement ive ever heard on srk. I think you're just saying this to bait someone into getting all upset and getting a response and saying lol u noob. :rofl:


I actually agree with him. With all other things being equal, if I am better than somebody else at doing something with the same mindset and working hours, I probably have a predisposition to be better at that.

Some people have it easier with math, some with throwing balls, some with feeling at ease with the opposite sex and some with fighting games, IMO. Sanford probably practices more Marvel than Wong, and still loses more (you know better than me, of course).

I know it sounds stupid, but people are different. Probably in every single human activity you adn em are different. You probably have it easier with lots and lots of things and I have it easier with lots and lots of other thinghs. Maybe the difference is really small, like in ability to stay awake or washing dishes, but there are some differences.

I am not saying that anybody has superpowers from birth to beat people at games, just that some people may get better than others under the same conditions