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quiche
05-03-2007, 02:58 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070430/lf_nm/muslimwomen_europe_virginity_dc;_ylt=Atem.SwulFgY_ k8k9AP79IVvaA8F

Sun Apr 29, 9:49 PM ET
PARIS (Reuters) -- Sitting in a cafe near the Champs Elysees, the 26-year-old French-born woman of Algerian descent looks like any other Parisian. But two months ago, she did something none of her friends have done.

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She had her hymen re-sewn, technically making her a virgin again.

"I'm glad I had it done," said the woman, who spoke to Reuters on condition of anonymity. "I wanted to reconstruct part of my life, to reconstruct myself so that I could feel better about myself."

This 30-minute outpatient procedure, called "hymenoplasty" and costing between 1,500 and 3,000 euros ($2,000-$4,000), is increasingly popular among young women of North African descent in France.

No exact figures exist to say how many such operations are done, but the woman's surgeon says he gets three to five queries and performs one to three hymenoplasties each week. Demand has been rising for the past three or four years.

Doctor Marc Abecassis, whose office is near the chic Champs Elysees, sees the rise in religion among France's five million Muslims fuelling this trend. His patients are between 18 and 45 years old, Muslim, born both in France and in North Africa.

"Many of my patients are caught between two worlds," said Abecassis. They have had sex already but are expected to be virgins at marriage according to a custom that he called "cultural and traditional, with enormous family pressure."

For this woman, the decision to have the surgery came after she broke up with a boyfriend who had pressured her into having sex. Unable to cope with breaking family tradition, she felt a hymenoplasty would help put her life back together again.

Another of Abecassis' patients, a 22-year-old Algerian immigrant who asked to be called Karima, said most young women had the operation to respect their culture or family tradition, not for religious reasons.

In fact, neither woman is a practicing Muslim. They dress, speak and act like other young Parisians, but are also part of a growing silent group of women who juggle traditional Muslim and modern French values.

All the women who spoke to Reuters did so condition that their identities not be revealed.

DON'T DISAPPOINT THE FIANCE

Karima also lost her virginity to an ex-boyfriend. She plans to marry soon and her fianc? expects her to be a virgin. So last month, she commuted in from an eastern suburb of Paris, where she lives with her parents, and had the surgery.

The next day she was back at work. "I don't want to disappoint my fianc?," she said, adjusting her glasses and brushing her highlighted brown hair from her face. "I wouldn't have had the surgery if I hadn't met him."

A leading Muslim spokesman said Islam says bride and groom should be virgins before marriage, but did not take a clear stand for or against hymenoplasties.

"If someone committed a sin, the essential thing is to repent," said Lhaj Thami Breze, head of the Union of French Islamic Organizations.

For many doctors, resewing the hymen goes against their ideals of sexual freedom and personal liberty.

"The surgery is an attack on women's dignity," said Professor Jacques Lansac, president of The National College of Gynaecologists and Obstetricians of France. "We will not take part in a market that places value on the quality of a woman -- if she's good or not. It is an attack on women's liberty."

He also argued that any doctor who performed these operations at state hospitals violated France's legal separation of church and state.

The church-state issue flared up in 2004 when France passed a law banning religious garb, notably headscarves, from state primary and secondary schools.

Since then, Abecassis said, some Muslims in France have been putting much more emphasis on certain customs as a way of expressing their identity. "Today it's the two 'V's' -- veil and virginity," he said. "It's a social phenomenon."

Surprisingly, French social security reimburses some of the cost of the operation in cases of rape or trauma. "Ninety-nine percent of the time, the claim is a fraud," he added.

Still, Abecassis defended the operations and said he helped patients who could not pay his 2,500 euro fee. "This surgery gives them another chance," he said. "It's a rehabilitation. For many, it's the only solution."

ANOTHER PATIENT AWAITS

Sitting in the same cafe, a 19-year-old Moroccan studying in Paris who asked to be called Amel spoke just before her first consultation with Abecassis.

"I dated a boy when I was 15 and I didn't even realize what had happened," she said, referring to her first and only sexual experience. "I didn't understand what I did."

Her parents introduced her to a young man earlier this year, and they plan to wed when she returns to Morocco in June. But he would not accept a non-virgin, so she needs the operation soon.

Amel is scraping together the monthly allowance sent by her parents and emptying her savings account to pay for it. Two friends back home will lend her the remaining 1,000 euros.

"If my mother ever found out about this, she would have a mental breakdown," Amel said. "I don't want to have this surgery, but I don't have any choice."

I need my gf to get that done after every night now.

...seriously.

ParryPerson.
05-03-2007, 03:00 PM
Hot.



or maybe not.

Makoto Scrub
05-03-2007, 03:03 PM
There should be an operation for chick to already have that shit broken.

Doing 3 virgins in the last 4 months = low tier

quiche
05-03-2007, 03:04 PM
There should be an operation for chick to already have that shit broken.

Doing 3 virgins in the last 4 months = low tierThere is. It's called a dildo.

...seriously.

Ninja Wallace
05-03-2007, 03:16 PM
Well, the operation doesn't make'em any tighter, does it?

Zero619
05-03-2007, 03:19 PM
They get the surgery to get it sewn up only to have it rip apart AGAIN when they have sex with the next big-dick dude....... Am I the only one who thinks that this surgery is straight up stupid?

Edit: with the pressure that the women were facing from their family and their heritage I understand but other wise that that, it's basically a waste of money.

Wolfkiller
05-03-2007, 03:19 PM
Well, the operation doesn't make'em any tighter, does it?
Probably not, but you get the pleasure of making them cry and bleed as you rail them I guess.

Logos
05-03-2007, 03:21 PM
Best part by far is all the fiances demanding their future wives be virgins. What a bunch of fucking retards.

OH MY GOD SHE GOT AN OPERATION TO SURGICALLY REPAIR A PIECE OF SKIN! ONLY NOW IS SHE AN ACCEPTABLE WIFE!

Soundatron
05-03-2007, 03:24 PM
Best part by far is all the fiances demanding their future wives be virgins. What a bunch of fucking retards.

OH MY GOD SHE GOT AN OPERATION TO SURGICALLY REPAIR A PIECE OF SKIN! ONLY NOW IS SHE AN ACCEPTABLE WIFE!

exactly. Premaritial sex is as scarce as cheap gasoline.

Mavric
05-03-2007, 03:26 PM
I heard about this shit a few months ago on NPR I think. Except it wasn't in france and it wasn't some dumb religious thing. It was a bunch of middle aged white women in the US who wanted to give their husband a present or something like that.

Makoto_lover
05-03-2007, 03:28 PM
this shit is kind of pointless, i say, but you never know; one minute bone a virgin, the next minute you bone a SEXUALLY TRANSMITTED VIRGIN!:wtf:

akumachan
05-03-2007, 03:34 PM
thats fucked up.

and I dont mean the surgery itself.


I mean the mental reasons behind the surgery. I shudder at any type of social or cultural pressure that means that a woman would want to undergo such a procedure just so their husbands will not be disappointed.

BAH.

The surgery serves no other purpose other than to fool a man into thinking he is getting an "unspoiled" wife. It doesnt increase feeling or performance. It's useless.


BAH

-AC

Soundatron
05-03-2007, 03:40 PM
just got done talkin to my bro about this and he made a good point

"nobody wants loose pussy."

lol I'll second that notion

Logos
05-03-2007, 03:45 PM
Yeah, but this surgery does nothing about that. All it does it repair the hymen.

snakedizzle209
05-03-2007, 04:05 PM
Best thing ever for a born again christian porn star.

gouki10
05-03-2007, 04:07 PM
wow she did it so she could feel better about herself, Don't matter if she did that, she is still not a virgin in God's eyes unless she asks for forgiveness.

CoMpOuNd
05-03-2007, 04:08 PM
Get Serious....

word.

w1r3d
05-03-2007, 04:10 PM
way to make lies believable! good job!

Serpent
05-03-2007, 04:19 PM
thats fucked up.

and I dont mean the surgery itself.


I mean the mental reasons behind the surgery. I shudder at any type of social or cultural pressure that means that a woman would want to undergo such a procedure just so their husbands will not be disappointed.

BAH.

The surgery serves no other purpose other than to fool a man into thinking he is getting an "unspoiled" wife. It doesnt increase feeling or performance. It's useless.


BAH

-AC

I feel rather sorry for the man. Imagine spending your life savings on a new car, only to bring it home and find out that it's used, and could have performance problems since someone who didn't know what they were doing broke it in. Despite what feminism wants you to believe, generally men lose out in marriage. This marriage is obviously built on a lie, and when the inevitable divorce occurs, the guy is going to lose half his assets, as 90% of women "marry up" for social and financial gain. To me it sounds like a person that expects this out of a woman is extremely religious, and as a result he has respected his religious vows himself. It's not like they only extend to women, chances are his duties are even greater under the religion.

I call bullshit on societal and cultural pressure. It obviously didn't stop these women from whoring around in their teens, when they were presumably living with their parents. They say they're not even practicing, and they're in their mid-20s now. How is the pressure greater now than when they were younger to adhere to a culture or religion? Give me a fucking break. This is an example once again of women using tissue-thin excuses and justifications to absolve themselves of any and all blame and accountability, so that they can gain for something they don't deserve. Obviously it makes sense that other women would accept these excuses, but on a site that is predominantly male, to see this retarded reaction is laughable. Once again, the tiers are:

God>Devil>>>>Serpent>Women>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Men

Demon Dash
05-03-2007, 04:21 PM
That's all kinds of dumb...

Etcetera
05-03-2007, 04:23 PM
This is the most retarded shit ever. I don't get how people get so wrapped up in a physical definition of virginity. If you're fucking, you're fucking. Simple as that, this technical virgin stuff is absurd. Like chicks that only take it in the ass. Aurora Jolie, I am looking in your direction. Doing porn and claiming to be a 'vrigin', get the fuck out of here with that noise!

akumachan
05-03-2007, 05:13 PM
wow she did it so she could feel better about herself, Don't matter if she did that, she is still not a virgin in God's eyes unless she asks for forgiveness.

thats exactly it IMO.

I am not a religious person, but to have your hymen re-sewn so you can PHYSICALLY be virgin sounds sacreligious. I mean talk about warping your religion to fit your lifestyle!

If a person truly believe in the tenet of chastity before marriage then they would KNOW that this does not make them a virgin again.

And IMO having a broken hymen is not what symbolizes a lack of virginity. IMO it is the sex act. If a woman has allowed a penis in the ol vagina then she is not a virgin. Even if the hymen did not break.

and if you DONT believe in your supposed religion then why bother with this surgery!?? It only makes these women look like hypocrites. They should be honest with themselves and the people around them.


This actually disgusts me to an astonishing level.... Again, I am not a fan of religion or any culture that requires women to be virgins for their future husbands, but, I equally despise anyone who would do such a thing to satisfy the demands of such cultures.


and whoever mentioned the comment about loose pussy didnt read the article. The operation does not restore elasticity or tightness. It only puts the hymen back in place. There are vaginal restoration surgeries already here in the US and many women use them. That operation doesnt bother me one bit because it is a personal choice by the woman to improve their sex life not something done to be compliant with the rules of a culture.

-AC
yuck

DS
05-03-2007, 05:16 PM
I think the guy is gonna have to worry a lot more about when he penetrates that brand new hymen.

"Are YOU a bad enough dude to penetrate this hymen?!"

Mizuki
05-03-2007, 05:19 PM
Wow... that's kinda. Lame.

The Epidemic
05-03-2007, 05:21 PM
^^bad dudes nes?

worst plot for a game ever..."Are you a bad enough dude to rscue the president?"

v1y
05-03-2007, 05:21 PM
Ridiculous. Truly. You are not a virgin, it is not the end of the world regardless of what your potential husband thinks. If he has a problem you really shouldn't be marrying the guy anyways.

Azrael
05-03-2007, 05:23 PM
I don't get what the big deal about virgins is anyway. They cry and bleed. And have no idea what they're doing. Experienced women FTW.

Serpent
05-03-2007, 05:44 PM
I don't get what the big deal about virgins is anyway. They cry and bleed. And have no idea what they're doing. Experienced women FTW.

Psychological and emotional reasons to ensure a dedicated, monomagomous marriage, although in practice it doesn't really work well if a society doesn't honor marriage or comitted relationships anyway. Still, if everyone only had sex after marriage, a lot of societal problems would disappear.

In terms of sex however, I too can see no reason why anyone would prefer virgins. You fuck a slut and marry a virgin. Or you be smart about the whole thing, and only fuck sluts.

The U.S. would work a lot better if society either decided to do one of 2 things:

1) Discourage pre-marital sex, and limit the emphasis and references to sex in media.

2) Encourage sex, act like it's the most natural thing in the world, and have no hangups about it.

Instead, we have this stupid hybrid of the two, where everyone is encouraged to go seek sex, but then women don't want to admit they want it or enjoy it.

The Middle East, I presume, is an example of #1.

Europe is an example of #2.

Seriously, you guys really need to spend some time with european chicks some time, it's so much more satisfying than putting up with a "western" woman. Well, unless they're feminists, in which case they're all one and the same I suppose.

So um, somehow this relates to the thread topic, I think.

Irennicus
05-03-2007, 05:48 PM
I don't get what the big deal about virgins is anyway. They cry and bleed. And have no idea what they're doing. Experienced women FTW.

I've said it once, I've said it again.

I'll pretty much fuck anything.

AKUMA2000
05-03-2007, 05:53 PM
Having your hymen sewn back in place ?? :wtf:

It's like a child who takes and eats the last cookie from the cookie jar only to replace it with another one so they don't get in trouble. :rofl:

Azrael
05-03-2007, 05:59 PM
The U.S. would work a lot better if society either decided to do one of 2 things:

1) Discourage pre-marital sex, and limit the emphasis and references to sex in media.

2) Encourage sex, act like it's the most natural thing in the world, and have no hangups about it.

Instead, we have this stupid hybrid of the two, where everyone is encouraged to go seek sex, but then women don't want to admit they want it or enjoy it.
I hate this as well. I wish we'd go the way of 2, and not be so hung up over it.

Ho0v-Man
05-03-2007, 08:34 PM
A lot of guys prefer virgins so they don't get compared to someone potentially better than them. Get over it you losers. I've never had sex with a virgin but I imagine it hurts for both parties for quite some time. My current gf only had one other partner and it had been over a year for her. Nevertheless, I was in a good bit of pain for like the first 2-4 months just because she was so tight. She says it's b/c it was so long plus I'm bigger. But even if I was smaller I imagine it would have still been painful. I can't imagine what breakin' in a new model would put me through.:wasted:

marcusg
05-03-2007, 09:34 PM
I don't like this because it seems decieving. Its like being a kid jumping in a small puddle on a sidewalk. Then you get mad after you find out that puddle is 10ft deep.
This is truly outrageous.