Lets talk about the 2nd most underrated character

[gridman]

Yamazaki. Kim is the first :-p

Ill post what I know and stuff about him when I have time but I figured Id make a thread so others could discuss what they know.

[geadom]

C-Yama:

RC dust is a great meter builder, and a great tool against small characters.
st.MP, cr.HP, j.hp, st.hk (at a distance) antiairs.
cr.lpx2, dust kick xx snake arms, Bnb.
st.HK, mp snake arms, great zoning tools, safe on MAX RANGE JD. Be careful of rolls, these moves can be punished.
cr.lp x2, st.hp, dp MP (knife stab) great guard crush string.

IMHO, C is his best groove, NOT ONLY from his stored lvl2 (very useful AND always there AA, or his cr.lp x2 xx lvl2 hitconfirm), but CHICKEN GUARD. After a succesful CG, a lvl2 grab is pretty much guaranteed.

Later: a few matchups notes.

[Ouroborus]

yama is the only reason why i use C groove. i think hes underrated. he fights against most of the commonly used characters pretty well but also quite a few bad matches.

his good matches (matchups that are either pretty even, in his favor or slight disadvantage): blanka, cammy, chun, ken, kyo, iori, geese, rock

bad matches (matchups where hes at a clear disadvantage): sagat, vega, rolento, sakura, bison

his hardest match is sagats hands down. his standing lk, c.fierce, standing fierce, j.lk, standing lp, c.lk and especially his j.hk will give you the most trouble.

standing lks arent too bad, your rapid lps (standing and crouching) can go against it fairy well and the occasional rc dust.

c.fierce will beat out your standing hk when done at the same time. since yamas standing hk comes out slower than saks and have a slower walking speed, he cant use the same strats sakura does against sagats c. fierce, which is walk back and forth and press hk. but your c.hk works okay against his c.fierce in terms of punishing it and can even go under and hit him out of it at the right ranges.

his standing fierce will nab you out of the air almost every time. cant really do much except dont jump as much and only jump in after a knockdown or when opportunity arises.

c.lks and standing lps is hard to escape since hes a big character and his c.lks beats your c.lp and c.lks. best thing to do is just ac your way out of there, but this will hurt your guard bar and also yamazaki recharges his guard bar pretty slowly. if you are feeling gutsy, you can rc dust or super.

his jumping hk gives yama the biggest problem. against anticipated j.hks, you can mp slash him out of it, but if sagat knows you are going to mp slash him, he can just roll super thru it for 60% of your life. xx deus xx mentioned walkin back and using his sweep as an anti-tripguard against sagats j.hk. its a pretty good idea and i have some mixed results with it. too bad it doesnt work against low jump sagats. rc mp slash on reaction is probably the best option but that rc is harder to do than most rcs. i still can't do it reliably but it seems good enough. the only problem is that it seems too slow at times and gives him free jump jumps.

i dont think this is a hopeless fight but its a pretty hard one. hopefully more people can give me some insight on this match.

vega is another match he loses, but imo, hes easier than sagat. on the ground, yama loses pretty badly, air to air and air to ground is where the main battle takes place. j.hp is very good against vega air to air, and so is his j.mp. you cant poke with hk since he can slide under it easily. your j.mk gives him a lot of trouble if you can get it since he cant anti air it outside of rc claw roll or flip kick. even if he uses his flip kick, i think it trades or beats it out most of the time in your favor unless he rcs it. yama has a good roll and most of vega's punch moves are pretty laggy, its not too hard to get in by rolling. your damage output in much higher than his so dont be afraid of trading or taking risks. in fact, one needs to take risks when fight vega. so to sum it up, battle starts, jump back mk, mp, hp, build meter by kicking dust and go from there.

[Logos]

IMHO, C is his best groove, NOT ONLY from his stored lvl2 (very useful AND always there AA, or his cr.lp x2 xx lvl2 hitconfirm), but CHICKEN GUARD. After a succesful CG, a lvl2 grab is pretty much guaranteed.

What exactly is chicken guard? :wtf:

[FSgamer]

What exactly is chicken guard? :wtf:
When somebody does a jumping attack, you jump and block the move very low to the ground, thus landing before your opponent does and putting you at advantage.

[gridman]

Worst matchups are definitely Sagat, Cammy, Blanka and Rolento easily. You cannot jump on in on cammy at all. St.hk beats everything you do unless your hitbox connects with her head.
c.jab x2 st.fierce snake arm
c.jab x2 (in corner) cmd grab
c.jab x2 wait grab super
meaty c.mk link c.lk xx dust snake
meaty c.mk cmd grab (not the super)
meaty c.mk st.fierce fierce knife
whiff c.mk instant jump hk (overhead)

all the endings are interchangeable with the starters

theres a lot more options than this and you can mess up reversal timing and all that jazz by using c.lk instead of c.mk (look exactly the same)

st.mp beats sagats j.hk from a distance and a great far anti air if you dont have level 2

c.hp for anti cross up or j.hp

has probably 3rd best alpha counter in the game. VERY useful. I think you can punish safe falls with roll st.hk or c.hk depending on distance. Safe on JD? Seems it. I abuse his AC when you need momentum or Sagat/blanka is all over you. Gives you a shift in momentum and as they're waking up you can use a c.mk pattern to build almost all of the meter back.

Has great jumpins that are hard to DP correctly. j.mk and j.lk trade with almost every normal because of the wierd angle and are very very hard to dp (maybe just for me?) from max range. Ovbiously with everything that is good, dont abuse them but they are there. I use j.hk mainly for instant overheads

best way to play yama seems to be throwing a lot of fakes and SAFE whiffs. more patience than aggresion really. getting a lead and sitting on it. annoying them with constant AC's since you'll always have acess to them.

[YMDSLTSAC]

I had been using Yamazaki for years but had to drop him when all the Vega whoring started. Yamazaki gets raped by Vega with no lube and a hot dog vendor hat on. If you have some sort of groove specific anti-air strategy (parry, just defense, anti-air cc) then I guess it's feasible for Yamazaki to win, but if you are like me and dont' have that luxury (I use him in C) then you may as well grab your ankles now.

Yamazaki vs Rolento isn't quite as bad but it's still pretty bad. The good thing about this fight is even though Yamazaki has a hard time anti-airing Rolento, Rolento has a hard time anti-airing Yamazaki as well, but Rolento's mobility poses a major problem for Yamazaki. In fact, really, damn near all the top tiers do favorably against Yamazaki.

Yamazaki suffers from the same problem Sagat has; height combined with weak anti-air defense. Sagat however compensates by being a beast in all other areas, Yamazaki while having very notable attributes (damaging b&b's, one hell of a st.rh, gimmicks for days) is nowhere near as scary. Yamazaki can demolish you when you don't fight him often but once you get used to him he's not that hard to beat. If he's not a gimmick character he's damn close.

[gridman]

1st off, Rolento has no problem anti airing yama at all. From every range, st.mp will either win clean or trade and still push him out (not where yama wants to be when hes lower on life). Only time st.mp wont work is when yama is jumping in from close, in that case rc scouter jab/fierce or rc qcb+punch.

2nd - Sagats weakness is only his height. Other than that he has no real weakness. He has plenty of anti airs. deep dp? St. fierce? c.fierce (some jumpins), st.hk? j.hp, high and low tiger cannon supers, jump back hp/hk

[CMX]

C-Yama:

RC dust is a great meter builder, and a great tool against small characters.
st.MP, cr.HP, j.hp, st.hk (at a distance) antiairs.
cr.lpx2, dust kick xx snake arms, Bnb.
st.HK, mp snake arms, great zoning tools, safe on MAX RANGE JD. Be careful of rolls, these moves can be punished.
cr.lp x2, st.hp, dp MP (knife stab) great guard crush string.

IMHO, C is his best groove, NOT ONLY from his stored lvl2 (very useful AND always there AA, or his cr.lp x2 xx lvl2 hitconfirm), but CHICKEN GUARD. After a succesful CG, a lvl2 grab is pretty much guaranteed.

Later: a few matchups notes.

his s.rh is roll safe, s.rh is not an AA, thats just a lucky meaty catching them on their 1st few frames from jumpings.strong and c.fierce is all you really need for AA

[Onikage]

I'm amazed at this 'vega rapes yama' belief that has persisted for so long. Hella don't believe that match is in Vega's favor. It's a slim margin, but I can't see Vega with the advantage. Command grab (and super version) shenanigans, RC'ed slashes, and easy anti-airs when he's got some distance put Yama ahead. Playing him in that 'offensive turtle' style, where you don't move back but don't really push the attack either, gives Vega major headaches. The two Yama players I play with both love the Yama/Vega matchup and do very well.

EDIT for a one line answer to YMDSLTSAC -

Mostly A, also K.

[YMDSLTSAC]

You can't say "Rolento has no problem anti airing yama at all" and then admit that he does at close ranges, especially when that's where Yama wants to be. Also If you can RC scouter jump Yama's jump-in at close range HALF the time he does it without shutting down the rest of your game in the process then you are clearly Leroy from the Last Dragon and can probably catch bullets with your teeth as well.

About Sagat's anti-air game, most of the anti-airs you have listed are extremely situational and/or aren't useful unless you were absolutely looking for the jump-in, which shuts down your ground game. In the case of the high tiger cannon super you need at least a lv2 for it not to get beat out and it's even harder to do in a pinch than a tiger uppercut. Jump back hp/hk is decent but using a low jump groove can make it problematic.

Good players aren't going to jump in on Sagat predicatbly. They are going to jump in on him at awkward ranges and mix it up well. It's hard for me to explain, it's something that must be experienced to fully understand.

[YMDSLTSAC]

I'm amazed at this 'vega rapes yama' belief that has persisted for so long. Hella don't believe that match is in Vega's favor. It's a slim margin, but I can't see Vega with the advantage. Command grab (and super version) shenanigans, RC'ed slashes, and easy anti-airs when he's got some distance put Yama ahead. Playing him in that 'offensive turtle' style, where you don't move back but don't really push the attack either, gives Vega major headaches. The two Yama players I play with both love the Yama/Vega matchup and do very well.

Are they fighting A-Vega's?

[gridman]

About Sagat's anti-air game, most of the anti-airs you have listed are extremely situational and/or aren't useful unless you were absolutely looking for the jump-in, which shuts down your ground game. In the case of the high tiger cannon super you need at least a lv2 for it not to get beat out and it's even harder to do in a pinch than a tiger uppercut. Jump back hp/hk is decent but using a low jump groove can make it problematic.

Good players aren't going to jump in on Sagat predicatbly. They are going to jump in on him at awkward ranges and mix it up well. It's hard for me to explain, it's something that must be experienced to fully understand.

Are you really going to say that a deep dp which is invincible and cant be stuffed is situational? C.fierce and s.hk are the only real anti airs that are very situational and have to be psychic for or know that they work. jump back hk/hp arent hard to do against a jumping opponent. St fierce is to stop low jump attempts and far jumpins. When does C-sagat not have a level 2 anyways? Any sagat that doesnt have stored meter can just deep DP anyways. Ive never heard of anyone saying sagat has anti air problems. If he has problems anti-airing people then who doesnt?

edit:
You can't say "Rolento has no problem anti airing yama at all" and then admit that he does at close ranges, especially when that's where Yama wants to be. Also If you can RC scouter jump Yama's jump-in at close range HALF the time he does it without shutting down the rest of your game in the process then you are clearly Leroy from the Last Dragon and can probably catch bullets with your teeth as well.

Yama doesnt have much of a reason to be jumping from that close. He has no crossup and jumping over him would do absolutley nothing. Probably the only reason you're going to jump from that close is for an early j.hk/instant overhead land drill or guillotine.

[wepeel]

Dude...C-yama is GOOD against A-Vega, there I said it. The crappy part is that I can't explain it because I have only seen the (serious) matchup twice. But the person who happened to lose with his A-Vega was Ricky. There, I'm name dropping. Now will you guys start exploring the possibilities?

[Logos]

When somebody does a jumping attack, you jump and block the move very low to the ground, thus landing before your opponent does and putting you at advantage.

Gotcha, thanks for the clarification. :bgrin:

[Ouroborus]

i dont see what the big problem is with cammy.

its much easier jumping on her than she is jumping on you. her standing hk is annoying and high priority in general. but your sweep has enough distance to go under her hk and your hk has the same reach as hers. it comes out slower thats why it gets beat out when both are done at the same time.

at closer range, you can sorta jab her out of her, (his c.lp is very good) and rc dust if she gets too predictable. just dont get predictable with your rc dust since its really easy to whiff punish.

like most characters, cammy should have a hard time getting in on him

[Mizuki]

C-Yama does fairly well against Vega, if you know how to play it. If you don't it'll be the hardest match of your life. It's weird to describe it.

[geadom]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnbKCRJHCRA

C-Yama vs K-Blanka/Sagat.

[box]

Mai works well against Yamazaki.

[gridman]

GC is probably your best bet if you cannot anti air or yours trades badly

Against Blanka

S.rh stuffs a lot of his pokes. St.mp trades with his j.hk and j.mk i believe.
C.hp beats j.mk if you hit with the tip of c.hp.

Dont GC his jumpins since he can land and block/back hop in time.

careful of RC electricty and corpse hop crossups.

Im really lost in this matchup. Help is needed

[Laicram]

I've read in the past that yama has free jump-in setups, but what are they exactly? I imagine they start off a sweep, AC, throw, or ax-kick(dp+k). Do you lead in with meaty jumping LK or jumping MK? Does it matter?

[gridman]

Im pretty sure in C-groove, AC, roll, jump mk/lk is a free jumpin. Im sure after a sweep, wait a second then jump in with mk/lk is another free jumpin. I dont use the axe kick too much so I wouldnt know about it.

Either way Yama has great jump in angles that are hard enough to DP as is.

[No D]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnbKCRJHCRA

C-Yama vs K-Blanka/Sagat.
yo was somebody busting off a gun ?! (at the end of the vid):confused:

Good shit on the vid though...:wgrin:

[geadom]

yo was somebody busting off a gun ?! (at the end of the vid):confused:

Good shit on the vid though...:wgrin:


:rofl:

Someone hit a metal door twice

:rofl::rofl::lol:

[Laicram]

Resurrecting this thread with some additional yama goodness.

I've recently switched from C-Groove to N-Groove and I wanted to point out some things I noticed.

C-Yama in general
- fast, saved meter gives yama good defensive tools - lvl2 AA, lvl2 through poke stings, alpha counters, and lvl1 grabs on wakeup. C-Yama heavily relies on saved meter as a tool to cover holes in his defense.

- Yama with lvl2 turns him into "gief with a good roll" ie, roll lvl2 grab. (lvl1 you can jump away from on reaction) Only consistent from the front, because of the input =( I find it hard to setup his roll in C, though it's possible to roll through a laggy move if you anticipate it (of course)

- C-Yama is not very dynamic (as opposed to N). However, C-Yama's strong defensive tools make C-Yama vs Blanka a good match and C-Yama vs Cammy a "doable" match.


N-Yama
- N-Yama must be played very differently because he cannot rely on constant meter to cover his holes like C-Yama can. N Yama gets other tools.

- Run increases the range of his pokes immensely - namely s.hk, and c.hk. Additionally, run allows you to close the distance after knockdown so easily. He needs to be at point-blank range to begin mixups with command throw. C-Yama almost never gets that close. Now that I'm N-Groove, I'm landing command throws off mixups way more often =D

- His counter-roll is quick enough to be useful. And of course, tech roll lessens the amount of harrasment he gets if knocked down.

- Without the defensive meter he gains in C, N-Yama vs Blanka becomes a hard match. Blanka can jump-in all day. Yama has to use counter (hcf+k) or lp snakearm - both answers are very committed and you have to hope you guessed right. RC dust kick or RC reflect might get save this matchup if you can execute, though.

- N-Yama vs Cammy is atrocious, IMO. Yama can stick out moves that stop spiral arrows or low-jump hks, but it's all guesses and cammy's walkspeed and s.hk put her in the driver's seat. RC's might help. Otherwise, I think only broken stock w/lvl3 access is the only decent scenario for yama here.



In a nutshell, I think N-Yama's have more fun, but C-Yama can fight Blanka and Cammy better. RC's could be a big factor if utilized consistently.

Theoretically speaking (cause I don't play K), K-Yama could be the sweet compromise with JD cover defensive holes, and run to abuse his mixup game.

[Atb_555]

I havent read the whole thing you posted yet but I find it much easier to employ throw mixups with a dash rather than run groove simply because some blocked normals -> dash sets throws up much more easily than with run which I find much harder to do.

So question is what are your basic throw setups.

[gridman]

meaty c.mk > cmd throw
c.jab x2 > cmd throw
j.rh > land > cmd throw
ghetto setup of after a knockdown j.fierce (whiff) > land > cmd throw
meaty c.mk > c.lk > dash > cmd throw
c.jab x 3 > dash > cmd throw
st.mk > cmd throw

i dont remember if this works but
c.jab x2 > st.fierce > MP Knife > (im pretty sure you have to walk forward a bit) cmd throw

You'll learn when to actually use it through experience. There arent THAT many setups for it but it is a really good move to use. Its very good to work into your game as they're waking up. instead of trying for a guard crush string or what have you as they're waking up, hesitate and if they freeze, command throw.

when i make the tutorial itll be easier to see what i mean

[Hellion]

I find it much easier to employ throw mixups with a dash rather than run groove simply because some blocked normals -> dash sets throws up much more easily than with run which I find much harder to do.

That is wholly dependant on the quality of the dash vs run.

[HeaT]

k rock, is seriously like almost top tier IMO...hella underrated...

im outi

Roberth

[YMDSLTSAC]

Things I've learned since first posting in this thread:

C-Yama is hands down the best Yama (not that it was truly disputed). More alpha counters, more supers (that you can store), and air blocking are more beneficial than anything you get in any other groove.

Yama versus Vega isn't too bad. Jump forward fierce can stop his annoying jump-in and rc dust helps Yama in the footsies department.

Yama's placement in the original Ongoing tier thread still holds true to this day. He's about mid-tier no more, no less.

[gridman]

Things I've learned since first posting in this thread:

C-Yama is hands down the best Yama (not that it was truly disputed). More alpha counters, more supers (that you can store), and air blocking are more beneficial than anything you get in any other groove.

Yama versus Vega isn't too bad. Jump forward fierce can stop his annoying jump-in and rc dust helps Yama in the footsies department.

Yama with run is more favorable. A groove gives him guaranteed damage. I prefer C because N is more vulnerable and it compliments my other chars better. I dont like A either. Vega can jump on yama all day cept max range (d.fierce gets stuffed pretty easily and st.mp is distant dependent)


Yama's placement in the original Ongoing tier thread still holds true to this day. He's about mid-tier no more, no less.

Disagree but whatever, im sure i wont get anyone on my side but whatever

[Ouroborus]

i like C yama better. air blocking really helps a lot against characters like blanka.

yama has problems with vega but vega getting too jump happy isn't one of them. his j.hp (the one button dp) stops vega's jump ins cold. my friend discovered that the 2nd day the game came out.

[xX_Deus_Xx]

just dropping in to say that i know alotta people talk about yama and how he can/cant anti air things.

early rolling with yama vs. jumpins is great.

if done right, at the very least, will reset the match against certain characters after they jump at you.

[Hellion]

Disagree but whatever, im sure i wont get anyone on my side but whatever

I actually think Yama's pretty solid, definitely not a character to underestimate such as ye'oldie mid tier or lower.
There's inherently nothing he has though that drastically alters the opponents gameplan, it's all based on what groove he's in.
Him having rage doesn't make him scarier.
Him having a full A-groove bar doesn't necessarily make him scarier.
Sitting on lvl 3's, same deal.

I do think C-Groove is his best though. Lots to be said with sitting on lvl 3's and airblock.

Wow, actually forgot to submit reply. Was wondering why this didn't show up. Somebody shoot me please.

[YMDSLTSAC]

Top Tier:

C-Sagat
A-Sakura
P-Cammy
A-Bison
several different flavors of Blanka
C/N-Chun
C-Guile
C-Honda

High-Mid Tier:

A-Hibiki
C-Rolento
N-Iori
K-Geese
K-Rock
P-Kyo
A-Vega
C-Ken

Mid Tier:
A-Todo
N-Maki
N-Vice
C-Rugal
C-Kim
C-Yamazaki


Put it like this; the only characters I would maybe put Yama over is Rugal and Vice. Only because I know nothing about Vice and he IMO fights the top-tier (especially Blanka) slightly better than Rugal does.

He can't combo into stupid damage like C-Sagat, A-Bison, C/N-Chun, A-Sakura, P-Kyo, C-Kim, A-Todo, K-Geese, K-Rock, and C-Ken.

His ground game pales in comparison to Vega's, Sagat's, Blanka's, Cammy's, Chun's, Sakura's and Guile's.

He has some cute mix-ups but they often times reset the match and are not as dominant as Honda's, A-Blanka's, Iori's, C/A-Rolento's, A-Todo's, Kyo's, C-Ken's, A-Bison's and A-Hibiki's

And he's not as versatile as Maki, Rolento, and Hibiki.

Yama is not bad he's just mid-tier. By default more than anything.

P.S. Another small reason I think C-Yama is better is because putting him in low jump grooves affects the speed of his regular jump, which in turn affects some of his anti-airs (jump up/back mk, jump foward hp).

[gridman]

Put it like this; the only characters I would maybe put Yama over is Rugal and Vice. Only because I know nothing about Vice and he IMO fights the top-tier (especially Blanka) slightly better than Rugal does.

Rugal does horrible against top tier like blanka. Yama at least has a chance with a SOLID anti air super and amazing GC.


He can't combo into stupid damage like C-Sagat, A-Bison, C/N-Chun, A-Sakura, P-Kyo, C-Kim, A-Todo, K-Geese, K-Rock, and C-Ken.


Hes a zoning character, not arguing that. Guile cant deal stupid damage either, hes still top right? Same with vega and honda.


His ground game pales in comparison to Vega's, Sagat's, Blanka's, Cammy's, Chun's, Sakura's and Guile's.


Just for the record, he destroys chun, doesnt do BAD against Sagat, guile, or cammy.


He has some cute mix-ups but they often times reset the match and are not as dominant as Honda's, A-Blanka's, Iori's, C/A-Rolento's, A-Todo's, Kyo's, C-Ken's, A-Bison's and A-Hibiki's

just because - havent you noticed people dropped honda? What mixups are you talking about? If he gets them in the corner, its pretty bad for them. He does great GC, has a good command grab and can mix up things like dash xx cmd grab super or dash wait to see if they jump, super. That kinda thing.


And he's not as versatile as Maki, Rolento, and Hibiki.


Doesnt need to be


Yama is not bad he's just mid-tier. By default more than anything.

P.S. Another small reason I think C-Yama is better is because putting him in low jump grooves affects the speed of his regular jump, which in turn affects some of his anti-airs (jump up/back mk, jump foward hp).

Honestly think yama should move up to high mid. He destroys geese and chun. Hands down. They cant do shit against him. He doesnt have a horrible matchup with anyone in the high mid tier either except vega(who is considered top now anyways)

[Ouroborus]

if C-Ken is considered high mid, then Yamazaki needs to move up also.

Yamazaki has a lot of better matchups against the top and high-mid tier than C-Ken.

[gridman]

if C-Ken is considered high mid, then Yamazaki needs to move up also.

Yamazaki has a lot of better matchups against the top and high-mid tier than C-Ken.

Another good point I forgot. I can kinda see how Ken can be considered high mid but I mean, Ken has A LOT harder of a time against top tiers and even high mid than yama does. Sure Ken can deal damage off c.short x2 but can he get that close?

[Hellion]

Another good point I forgot. I can kinda see how Ken can be considered high mid but I mean, Ken has A LOT harder of a time against top tiers and even high mid than yama does. Sure Ken can deal damage off c.short x2 but can he get that close?

Not just that, dash forward d.mk xx lvl 2 is an effective way to land it.
Following any of his anti-airs, he can go for his crossups and voila, close-in.

[FSgamer]

Not just that, dash forward d.mk xx lvl 2 is an effective way to land it.
Following any of his anti-airs, he can go for his crossups and voila, close-in.
You just have to note that maximum distance c.MK doesn't combo into Shoryureppa, not even at lvl 3. It does combo into lvl 3 Kick Super, though (which also sets up the cross-up).

[HeaT]

if C-Ken is considered high mid, then Yamazaki needs to move up also.

Yamazaki has a lot of better matchups against the top and high-mid tier than C-Ken.

honestly if you ask me ken match ups in that top tier list are all good...i think he does good against all of them, and it doesnt even need to be c-ken, ill play k ken and still do the same without the combo of death...

im outi

Roberth

[Ouroborus]

he does good against anyone as long as he lands c.lk, clk xx super

but realistically, it wont always happen

[MGS]

k rock, is seriously like almost top tier IMO...hella underrated...



:woot::woot::woot::woot::woot::woot:

finally someone who feels the same as i do. this guy can fight anyone in the game.

yama is good but only with a lead he does not have the ability to comeback against the top tier characters seeing as most of his super set ups are kinda gimmicky the the opponent never has to come towards yama he has no chance against sag, blanka, or cammy because their normals beat his i guess rc snake arm gives you a chance but if they have a lvl3 you could eat one just for trying. this is a little old but i guess if you want him bumped up beat someone with him. hell i've been saying k-ryu should replace c/n ryu on the tier list if for no other reason..simply because its the only ryu that ppl still play. best ryu user was/is? choi and he's dropped him like years ago the only ryu's that are available to see now are AO's and that one kid joey can't remember where he's from...

but oh well yama is mid deal with it..thats not saying he sucks..just saying you have to work harder to win with him..and who cares where he's ranked as long as you keep winning games...kudos to grid for fighting so hard for his character to be respected gotta admire the man's drive

[Pieguy]

:woot::woot::woot::woot::woot::woot:

finally someone who feels the same as i do. this guy can fight anyone in the game.

yama is good but only with a lead he does not have the ability to comeback against the top tier characters seeing as most of his super set ups are kinda gimmicky the the opponent never has to come towards yama he has no chance against sag, blanka, or cammy because their normals beat his i guess rc snake arm gives you a chance but if they have a lvl3 you could eat one just for trying. this is a little old but i guess if you want him bumped up beat someone with him. hell i've been saying k-ryu should replace c/n ryu on the tier list if for no other reason..simply because its the only ryu that ppl still play. best ryu user was/is? choi and he's dropped him like years ago the only ryu's that are available to see now are AO's and that one kid joey can't remember where he's from...


Dan still plays C-Ryu which is one of the stronger ryu's imo. Kind of low damage on the supers though as he's just not scary enough imo w/o k groove rage.

[CMX]

yama he has no chance against sag, blanka, or cammy because their normals beat his i guess rc snake arm gives you a chance but if they have a lvl3 you could eat one just for trying.

no chance against sagat? the yama vs. sagat match up has been discussed to the extent that its agreed that the match up is more closer then people think it is. its not a even match up of course but it comes down pretty close.

[gridman]

yama is good but only with a lead he does not have the ability to comeback against the top tier characters seeing as most of his super set ups are kinda gimmicky the the opponent never has to come towards yama

You're pretty clueless. He doesnt need to hit a super to make a comeback really. Does guile have to hit a super to make a comeback or can he just wittle the opponent down with his zoning?

he has no chance against sag, blanka, or cammy because their normals beat his i guess rc snake arm gives you a chance but if they have a lvl3 you could eat one just for trying.

You're joking right? Sagat has a bitch of a time against Yama, especially if he has less life. If yama has less / even, its not HORRIBLE or having NO CHANCE but its not easy. Work your way in, work the guard bar, force them to make a mistake, use a command grab etc. Blanka is the worst cause he can jump (FROM FAR) all day unless you have a level 2. Cammy isnt bad, use st.mk and cr.mk along with rc fierce arm. Only jump in if you're in a little closer than where the tip of her rh would be.

[HeaT]

You're joking right? Sagat has a bitch of a time against Yama, especially if he has less life. If yama has less / even, its not HORRIBLE or having NO CHANCE but its not easy. Work your way in, work the guard bar, force them to make a mistake, use a command grab etc. Blanka is the worst cause he can jump (FROM FAR) all day unless you have a level 2. Cammy isnt bad, use st.mk and cr.mk along with rc fierce arm. Only jump in if you're in a little closer than where the tip of her rh would be.

"Work your way in, work the guard bar, force them to make a mistake, use a command grab etc."

sounds like every characters strategy???

i mean i can say that with kyo vs blanka, work your way in work the gaurd bar, force a mistake, use kick throw...that does not mean that blanka has a bitch time against kyo and it doesnt mean the match up for kyo is good, because it isnt...

im sorry but sagat yama is bad for yama...sagat doesnt not have a "bitch" time against yama thats a comfortable match for sagat imo...

im outi

Roberth

[gridman]

"Work your way in, work the guard bar, force them to make a mistake, use a command grab etc."

sounds like every characters strategy???

i mean i can say that with kyo vs blanka, work your way in work the gaurd bar, force a mistake, use kick throw...that does not mean that blanka has a bitch time against kyo and it doesnt mean the match up for kyo is good, because it isnt...

im sorry but sagat yama is bad for yama...sagat doesnt not have a "bitch" time against yama thats a comfortable match for sagat imo...

im outi

Roberth

Do you want me to be more specific? Work your way in with SMART st.rhs and rc fierce slashes / occasional dust. TRY TO GET A KNOCKDOWN. Use cr.rh to punish if you can. If sagat jumps at you, you can try walk back cr.rh as a tripguard anti air. If sagat sticks something out, it will beat it. Once you get to yamazakis sweet spot (just outside max st.rh range) is when things can start happening. Use st.mk and cr.mk to stuff pokes and things like walk up c.jab xx dust xx arm, or walk up cr.mk xx fierce arm. Dash into command grab (super grab if you're feeling lucky. Punish their rolls but keep them in the corner.


Sagat doesnt have an easy time against yama. No where near a walk in the park for sagat. Not a bad matchup by any means for yama. Yama can anti air sagat from just about every range (only a few quirky distances that he cant with st.mp, cr.fierce for crossups, deep lvl 2 works too). Use st.mk against his st.lk and cr.lk/mk. Smart rc mp slashes work well as long as you dont get to predictable. Same with st.rh. Preemptive st.fierce from sagat will beat st.rh clean, otherwise its stuffed. Unless sagat has a level 2, its hard to DP his j.mk and j.lk cleanly because of their weird angle. If you can safely jump in with one, land and either walk up jab x dust x arm or if you're too far, st.fierce xx mp knife or fierce arm.

[YMDSLTSAC]

gridman, you need to play better competition.

[gridman]

gridman, you need to play better competition.

You need to play a good yamazaki.

[HeaT]

You need to play a good yamazaki.

so you talking about which groove yama when you talk about yama c-groove? or n-groove?

also i didnt say sagat can walk in the park against yama, i said it was comfortable...he doesnt have to worry about too might shit...mix ups can get crazy at anytime but he can rest mix ups and just play the poking game...id probably say like 7-3 match for sagat...

im outi

Roberth

[gridman]

so you talking about which groove yama when you talk about yama c-groove? or n-groove?

also i didnt say sagat can walk in the park against yama, i said it was comfortable...he doesnt have to worry about too might shit...mix ups can get crazy at anytime but he can rest mix ups and just play the poking game...id probably say like 7-3 match for sagat...

im outi

Roberth

C-groove. N is good for rushdown but is more riskier.

I know you didnt say that but a LARGE portion of people seem to think sagat vs yama is a joke, myself included before I learned yamazaki. 5.5-4.5 sagats favor. Just my opinon.

[Laicram]

...snip... 5.5-4.5 sagats favor. Just my opinon.

That's like saying the match is almost even - which just sounds biased to me.

For anti-sagat, I think yama against K-Sagat is "do-able" because he can pre-emptively zone him with snake arms. I give this match 6-4 to K-Sagat.

Against a rolling sagat, heavily relying on snake arms just falls apart. Without that "1st barrier" to play off of, I rate 7-3 to C/N-Sagat. A normal footsie game will ensue. Yama can poke, but Sagat can poke > super for high damage. Sagat also has better jumpins and AA options.

[gridman]

That's like saying the match is almost even - which just sounds biased to me.

For anti-sagat, I think yama against K-Sagat is "do-able" because he can pre-emptively zone him with snake arms. I give this match 6-4 to K-Sagat.

Against a rolling sagat, heavily relying on snake arms just falls apart. Without that "1st barrier" to play off of, I rate 7-3 to C/N-Sagat. A normal footsie game will ensue. Yama can poke, but Sagat can poke > super for high damage. Sagat also has better jumpins and AA options.

Its the other way around honestly. Yama has a really hard time against low jump rh unless you preemptive st.mp which is risky. Itll generally get stuffed which leads to CH rh xx dp.

You dont need to rely on snake arms against C sagat. They are a big help but you use them sparingly and not predicitbly. I mean, how many times have you seen yama do something like st.rh (whiff or block) then snakearm? Thats why you dont do shit like that.

[HeaT]

Its the other way around honestly. Yama has a really hard time against low jump rh unless you preemptive st.mp which is risky. Itll generally get stuffed which leads to CH rh xx dp.

You dont need to rely on snake arms against C sagat. They are a big help but you use them sparingly and not predicitbly. I mean, how many times have you seen yama do something like st.rh (whiff or block) then snakearm? Thats why you dont do shit like that.

you going to evo this year??? we'll play a sagat vs yama match 10 games and see what the outcome is...

im outi

Roberth

[gridman]

you going to evo this year??? we'll play a sagat vs yama match 10 games and see what the outcome is...

im outi

Roberth

Hopefully am. As long as I have the money.

[MGS]

You're joking right? Sagat has a bitch of a time against Yama, especially if he has less life. If yama has less / even, its not HORRIBLE or having NO CHANCE but its not easy. Work your way in, work the guard bar, force them to make a mistake, use a command grab etc. Blanka is the worst cause he can jump (FROM FAR) all day unless you have a level 2. Cammy isnt bad, use st.mk and cr.mk along with rc fierce arm. Only jump in if you're in a little closer than where the tip of her rh would be.

did either of you read what i wrote? i said UNLESS YAMA HAS A LEAD he's got no chance work your way in..oh sure with what? if sagat is content with waiting on you what is yama going to do tell a normal that will beat out sagat's cr.fierce clean? ..work is bar? with what? if sagat sits back and works his normals and doesn't care about advancing towards you it may be lame but i can't see anything yama can do to put him in danger. i believe its much easier for sagat to work your bar than it is for you to work his sagat definitely limits your options heavily if he has a level 3 you can't even throw a lot of your long range moves..seeing as you could eat a lvl 3 for doing any of them. with his lack of mobility i can't see yama getting in close enough for a command grab.

i guess i should reaffirm here that i like yama i think he's a great character hell he kicks my ass at times but c yama vs c sagat is heavily in sagats favor robert called it a 7-3 match and no one asked him if he was joking..i may be wrong but doesn't 7-3 means he fucking owns yama. grid you called it 5.5-4.5 which is fair for you to think that..but its gonna be tough to back that up.

I respect your love for your character like i said but most of the characters who give sagat problems all have one thing in common and thats speed something your boy yama lacks severely but if you're playing with a lead you can do all sorts of shit make sagat have to guess but without it he can turtle you into oblivion.

i've beaten a lot of sagats with ryu does that mean sagat doesn't own him? if i said ryu vs sagat was 5.5-4.5 you'd laugh me out of the building but if you played someone with a great ryu like choi or AO your sagat might get scraped hard.

all yama and sagat references are c-groove characters

i think yama is great against k sagat..because he can keep him out

maybe no chance was an overstatement...c yama vs c sagat is really really really hard for yama..that better :bgrin:

[HeaT]

i think yama is great against k sagat..because he can keep him out



i dont think he does good against k sagat either...sagat has low jump and jding...

i wasnt joking about 7-3, and to me 7-3 means that match up is hard for yama...

im outi

Roberth

[gridman]

For fucking get it. Until you have experience with the matchup dont act like you know what the hell you are talking about.

6-4 at worst against C-Sagat
7-3 at worst against K-sagat.

[ramza]

For fucking get it. Until you have experience with the matchup dont act like you know what the hell you are talking about.

6-4 at worst against C-Sagat
7-3 at worst against K-sagat.

...go out and prove yourself. at this point you're nothing but an annoyance

[gridman]

...go out and prove yourself. at this point you're nothing but an annoyance

So far I'm the only one who has a clue about what Yamazaki is capable of but you're all so caught up in that "its yamazaki" you refuse to believe it.

I forget what it was about, but I said something about yamazaki, got criticized for it, Gunter came in and said the exact same thing and no one said shit back to him. Even if I havent "proven myself" I know what I'm talking about with yamazaki

[MGS]

So far I'm the only one who has a clue about what Yamazaki is capable of but you're all so caught up in that "its yamazaki" you refuse to believe it.

I forget what it was about, but I said something about yamazaki, got criticized for it, Gunter came in and said the exact same thing and no one said shit back to him. Even if I havent "proven myself" I know what I'm talking about with yamazaki

ok man you win he's the greatest...i don't mind this kind of talk at all or find it annoying but you can't just say that we are hating on yamazaki cuz thats just ridiculous. after your last post i went and checked out some of your games on youtube against sauce and most of the damage you did to his characters with yama..you did it going backwards and punishing him for coming towards you which is what you should do with yamazaki the only times i ever saw you mount anytype of rushdown with him..is when he was in the corner but can't every character rush down in the corner? a good portion of the cast is better than him in the game its that simple..why do you care so much that ppl have him ranked so low? wouldn't him being great and not respected work in your favor so that when you go to tournaments and such ppl don't feel threatened until after you beat them down with yama?

"So far I'm the only one who has a clue about what Yamazaki is capable of"
statements like these are just idiocy man do you seriously believe you're the only one who knows what yama is capable of? shit gunter plays a mean a'gief who does well against top opponents but not because a'gief is top tier its because gunter is really good with him and knows his character inside and out the same thing can be said for leezy's k-kim, or iyo's c-maki.

there are a few characters in the game that i have no idea what to do against..yama isn't one of em hell i'll take my ryu against a c yama. at worst that match up has gotta be 6-4:bgrin: yama is a turtle there are bigger and better turtles in the game c-honda, blanka, sagat, guile hell even sakura may be a better natural(normals) turtle than yama

"Even if I havent "proven myself" I know what I'm talking about with yamazaki"

you may be right but unless you're winning ppl really don't care what you have to say its the whole theory fighter syndrome. i bet if justin ricky choi or any other popular and proven player started using someone obscure you'd have a troop of youtube copy cats behind them playing those characters. Thats just the way it works

[Ouroborus]

actually, yama feels like a mini sagat or a bigger version of sakura. well, you get my drift.

[casey_MDK]

So far I'm the only one who has a clue about what Yamazaki is capable of but you're all so caught up in that "its yamazaki" you refuse to believe it.

I forget what it was about, but I said something about yamazaki, got criticized for it, Gunter came in and said the exact same thing and no one said shit back to him. Even if I havent "proven myself" I know what I'm talking about with yamazaki

I wouldn't say this is far from the truth, honestly.

[gridman]

ok man you win he's the greatest...i don't mind this kind of talk at all or find it annoying but you can't just say that we are hating on yamazaki cuz thats just ridiculous. after your last post i went and checked out some of your games on youtube against sauce and most of the damage you did to his characters with yama..you did it going backwards and punishing him for coming towards you which is what you should do with yamazaki the only times i ever saw you mount anytype of rushdown with him..is when he was in the corner but can't every character rush down in the corner? a good portion of the cast is better than him in the game its that simple..why do you care so much that ppl have him ranked so low? wouldn't him being great and not respected work in your favor so that when you go to tournaments and such ppl don't feel threatened until after you beat them down with yama?

"So far I'm the only one who has a clue about what Yamazaki is capable of"
statements like these are just idiocy man do you seriously believe you're the only one who knows what yama is capable of? shit gunter plays a mean a'gief who does well against top opponents but not because a'gief is top tier its because gunter is really good with him and knows his character inside and out the same thing can be said for leezy's k-kim, or iyo's c-maki.

there are a few characters in the game that i have no idea what to do against..yama isn't one of em hell i'll take my ryu against a c yama. at worst that match up has gotta be 6-4:bgrin: yama is a turtle there are bigger and better turtles in the game c-honda, blanka, sagat, guile hell even sakura may be a better natural(normals) turtle than yama

"Even if I havent "proven myself" I know what I'm talking about with yamazaki"

you may be right but unless you're winning ppl really don't care what you have to say its the whole theory fighter syndrome. i bet if justin ricky choi or any other popular and proven player started using someone obscure you'd have a troop of youtube copy cats behind them playing those characters. Thats just the way it works

Those games on youtube are atrocious. Ill be the first to admit that. They are no where near me playing my best.

Apparantley I am if you all seriously think Sagat can stomp on Yama 7-3.

Im pretty sure I made it clear that I wasnt trying to say Yama is top or anywhere near there. He DEFINITELY can hang with high mid like rock, geese, hibiki, iori, KEN, etc.

You're absolutely right, look what happened with A Vega.

[HeaT]

..yama isn't one of em hell i'll take my ryu against a c yama. at worst that match up has gotta be 6-4:bgrin: yama is a turtle there are bigger and better turtles in the game c-honda, blanka, sagat, guile hell even sakura may be a better natural(normals) turtle than yama


6-4 in yamas favor??? ryu gets fucking waxed by yama...like bad...

and this

"6-4 at worst against C-Sagat
7-3 at worst against K-sagat. "

sounds a lot different than 5.5-4.5...

im outi

Roberth

[gridman]

6-4 in yamas favor??? ryu gets fucking waxed by yama...like bad...

and this

"6-4 at worst against C-Sagat
7-3 at worst against K-sagat. "

sounds a lot different than 5.5-4.5...

im outi

Roberth

5.5 - 4.5 sagats favor was against C sagat

I dont think I ever mentioned Yama being okay against K Sagat. Low jump Sagat destroys Yama. Only thing he can do is hope RC Dust will hit their recovery. 6-4 isnt that much different than 5.5 - 4.5

[MGS]

6-4 in yamas favor??? ryu gets fucking waxed by yama...like bad...


i was being sarcastic thats why the little grinning guy is there but whatever i don't think anyone "waxes" k-ryu except for any sagat and the typical a groove chippers but thats a whole new discussion that i'm not trying to start.

[HeaT]

i was being sarcastic thats why the little grinning guy is there but whatever i don't think anyone "waxes" k-ryu except for any sagat and the typical a groove chippers but thats a whole new discussion that i'm not trying to start.

fo real??? i think ryu does better against sagat than he does against yama...hahaha...recently ive been playing that match up quite often k-ryu vs k-yama (with me playing k-yama, and i wouldnt call myself a yama expert)...and ryu gets beat down pretty bad...

im outi

Roberth

[Gwai Lo ½]

You're absolutely right, look what happened with A Vega.

A Vega has been around forever...

edit: but anyway, why create a character specific thread in the general forum?

[gridman]

A Vega has been around forever...

edit: but anyway, why create a character specific thread in the general forum?

A Vega was never really picked up by EVERYONE playing A groove until Bas started using him and winning.

This threads been around for a while

[Gwai Lo ½]

Thread may be around forever, but I've never posted it in and I just thought Id ask why it was here instead of in Yamazaki forum..

A vega is used by so many because he's a solid character.

[Havoc]

What is with all this arguing?

Until somebody steps up, and actually *does* something with Yama, who gives a fuck?

I'm not saying it's impossible, or even improbable; I'm just saying it doesn't matter.

Talking about CvS is fine..... don't we all play though?

[gridman]

A vega wasnt as popular as he was until bas started winning with him. Not arguing he isnt solid or anything.

[FSgamer]

A Vega was never really picked up by EVERYONE playing A groove until Bas started using him and winning.

This threads been around for a while
I thought people started playing Vega after watching Ricky (Bas included).

Where's that Yama video tutorial?
I'm curious to see that.

[Ouroborus]

heres the story of the spanish ninja and how he rose to the top.

Back then, he wasnt used as much except the east coast according to Sabin. There were a few pockets of Vega players here and there in the US, but he still didnt get as much usage as CBS or even the shotos. The Japanese thought he had no chance, no potential. I think the only known Japanese player that used Vega was Makoto (P-Vega).

According to Sabin, Ricky came to the EC, saw the potential of vega and started using him in A groove. I'm not sure who used Vega first between Makoto and Ricky. Prolly Ricky did.

Fast forward to evo2k4. Daigo lost to Eddie Lee, who used R2 A-Vega. Ricky took Dan's team apart with A-Vega and finished the slack with A-Sakura. In the first and second game, Ricky's A-Vega took down Kindebu's Sakura and Bison alone just to lose to Blanka.

After evo2k4, hella fools started jocking A-Vega. BAS picked him up at some point during texas showdown. Soon, BAS replaced Sakura with Vega.

The rest is history.

[Havoc]

Yeah... people were using A-Vega in NYC since 2001.

I remember the custom was sooooooooo ghetto.

It was like combo into sweep -> Claw Roll (which would hit on the 2nd bounce or something)-> (whiff sweep xx Claw Roll) xN -> super

or something stupid like that.

[Gwai Lo ½]

Prez winning ECC with a-vega anchor back in the day.

[Laicram]

Hey gridman,

I was wondering how the Yama guide is coming along. I want to see more of your ideas on the Yama vs Chun Li matchup. You've mentioned it's in Yama's favor, but I don't see how.

[gridman]

Hey gridman,

I was wondering how the Yama guide is coming along. I want to see more of your ideas on the Yama vs Chun Li matchup. You've mentioned it's in Yama's favor, but I don't see how.

Well I've laid everything out really and know what I'm going to say, I just want it to be good and be understood from people who dont play yama.

Yama vs chun is ginormously (not a word) in yamas favor. Chun has zero way of getting in. Jump in? d.fierce stuffs it cleanly. Trys to poke or walk in ? St.rh. good luck whiff punishing it with st.mp. Her cr.rh beats his st.rh but thats incredibly risky to do and most people dont know about it. She trys to short jump in? If you can react, level 2. If not, guard break her off. Dont bother with snake arms honestly. You dont even need them. She cant touch him if he plays smart. She cant roll through st.rh either, too long.

[Laicram]

I'm gonna have to try AA'ing those jump-ins. I'd always block them and get stuck in SBK patterns.

[Batou101]

yamazaki is one awesome character to use. It will require a good thinking player to really use the effectiveness of him.

Best Groove for Yamazaki? I don't think the A groove might suit him too well....maybe C , S, and N groove.

Yama owns Chun Li....but if this was Third Strike, totally the other fucking way around o.O

It's funny how some people think i'm taunting while I'm countering them.

Also, another good tactic especially for wake up maybe is the Foot Stomp he has....MASHES the turtlers :)

[gridman]

Laicram - I promise from far and close(going for a crossup), d.fierce stuffs cleanly or trades. Almost always will beat it. DONT DO IT TOO LATE YOU'll GET CH. thats the only problem

Best groove for yama is probably N or C. More N really since run helps him.

I dont find the overhead to really have much use cept maybe at the end of a level 2 cancel so they cant tech.

[Batou101]

Let's not forget that headbutt grab he has.....a nice little addition to his already weird arsenal of moves.

[RagingStormX]

Stupid grab set up Ive done once since this game came out and probably will never do again:

Counter near corner, juggle s.fp xx dust (misses of course), grab super when they land

Yeah I'm cool.

[N-StradAT9]

Yama's got to be high-mid, he matches up great. Doesn't have the insane potential of the top-tops but his mindgames make up for it.